{"id":148909,"url":"https://ivod.ly.gov.tw/Play/Clip/1M/148909","video_url":"https://ivod-lyvod.cdn.hinet.net/vod_1/_definst_/mp4:1MClips/1488b65508d71c048003eeaca27f006f5de4c744a3d84f2dc986728e607a0322d855ff8e15c192c65ea18f28b6918d91.mp4/playlist.m3u8","委員名稱":"王鴻薇","委員發言時間":"10:29:24 - 10:40:55","影片長度":"00:11:31","會議時間":"2023-12-07T09:00:00+08:00","會議名稱":"立法院第10屆第8會期司法及法制委員會第24次全體委員會議（事由：一、審查委員陳超明等22人擬具「立法院組織法第三十二條條文修正草案」案。\n二、併案審查（一）委員黃世杰等16人、（二）委員游毓蘭等17人及（三）委員黃世杰等16人分別擬具「司法人員人事條例部分條文修正草案」案。\n三、併案審查（一）委員劉建國等18人擬具「公教人員保險法第十二條條文修正草案」、（二）台灣民眾黨黨團及（三）委員邱志偉等17人分別擬具「公教人員保險法第三十六條條文修正草案」案。）","meet":{"tmpMeeting":null,"title":"第10屆第8會期司法及法制委員會第24次全體委員會議","term":10,"type":"委員會","sessionPeriod":8,"sessionTimes":24,"committees":[36],"id":"委員會-10-8-36-24"},"date":"2023-12-07","duration":691,"end_time":"2023-12-07T10:40:55+08:00","start_time":"2023-12-07T10:29:24+08:00","features":["gazette"],"type":"Clip","gazette":{"lineno":569,"blocks":[["王委員鴻薇：（10時29分）謝謝主席。我延續一下剛才游毓蘭委員的話題，最近很多公務人員都在熱烈討論有關衛福部的高級長官秘書處處長的婚外情、車震人妻的事情，當然網路上也在熱議，公務員服務法過去在第五條有規定，「公務員應誠實清廉，謹慎勤勉，不得有驕恣貪惰，奢侈放蕩及冶遊、賭博、吸食煙毒等足以損失名譽之行為」。","但後來也是在我們院內同仁提案修法之後，把這些全部都拿掉了，因此很多人就說，過去不得奢侈放蕩，所以現在公務人員可以奢侈放蕩了嗎？","我想請問一下銓敘部的次長，現在衛福部這位處長的行為有沒有違反相關的法令、公務員服務法，有沒有違反？"],["朱次長楠賢：公務員服務法現在第六條規定：「公務員應公正無私、誠信清廉、謹慎勤勉，不得有損害公務員名譽及政府信譽之行為」，所以這個部分……"],["王委員鴻薇：他有沒有違反第五條？"],["朱次長楠賢：第六條。"],["王委員鴻薇：你剛才……現在把它改成第六條。"],["朱次長楠賢：第六條。"],["王委員鴻薇：好，那有沒有違反這個條文？"],["朱次長楠賢：我覺得這個社會會評價啦。"],["王委員鴻薇：你們是主管機關，怎麼變社會評價了？那是讓大家來評論一下就算了嗎？"],["朱次長楠賢：我覺得是有啦。"],["王委員鴻薇：有！所以按照公務員服務法來說，衛福部是他的主管，是不是應該要啟動相關的懲戒措施？"],["朱次長楠賢：這個就看衛福部怎麼去做處理……"],["王委員鴻薇：什麼叫看衛福部？如果衛福部不懲戒，因為衛福部自己的長官就這樣子啊，如果衛福部不懲戒，所以我們的公務員服務法是擺好看的嗎？不是，你是主管機關嘛！按照這樣的行為、按照我們的公務員服務法，是不是應該依法啟動相關的懲戒？"],["朱次長楠賢：服務法是一個倫理規範，但不是說銓敘部拿這個法去治各個機關，應該是各個機關回來遵循這個法，自行……"],["王委員鴻薇：好，如果衛福部不了了之、寬大為懷，因為他祈求大家原諒他，所以就原諒他，也就不了了之、也就沒事了？"],["朱次長楠賢：這個將來如果衛福部有人來問銓敘部，我們會回答他。"],["王委員鴻薇：你怎麼回答呢？"],["朱次長楠賢：我們就是會以公務員服務法相關規範……"],["王委員鴻薇：應該要懲戒，對不對？"],["朱次長楠賢：也不是，就是依照這規定要審酌啦，這樣子。"],["王委員鴻薇：本來就是嘛！不然我們公務員服務法是假的嗎？已經越修越隨便了，乾脆就把這條全部拿掉算了！損害公務人員名譽也沒有問題，我覺得這是一個影響官箴的問題，對不對？很多軍警發生這樣的行為通通都被懲戒啊，那為什麼衛福部……衛福部怎麼樣，桃花院嗎？桃花部嗎？他們就無所謂！所以我覺得這一點我們應該要站穩立場。","另外，請教一下立法院秘書長。"],["林秘書長志嘉：王委員。"],["王委員鴻薇：是，昨天有一個讓我們一看到其實非常非常震驚的訊息，在網路上您大概有看到，就是有很多被情治單位監聽的對象，你知道有很多我們立法院的委員嗎？您知道嗎？"],["林秘書長志嘉：監聽的對象是我們立法委員？"],["王委員鴻薇：對，暴露在網路上的公開名單裡面，有很多位是立法委員，你知道嗎？你沒有注意這個事情？"],["林秘書長志嘉：沒有注意。"],["王委員鴻薇：好，那我現在告訴你，這個網頁一打開，第一個看到的是我們立法院副院長蔡其昌，而且連他的電話……因為他們都有監察電話，他的電話都在上面，而且是手機喔！我們有沒有碼掉？我們應該把它碼掉才對！然後有蔡其昌副院長、有邱泰源委員、有黃國書委員，而且黃國書委員還是二個機關、二個申請單位，這裡面當然還有好多立委的助理、裡面還有很多是立委的助理！","調查局昨天立刻出面否認這件事情，但事實上這邊所看到的資料裡面，申請單位非常多，有一些老實講我自己也覺得非常奇怪，因為有很多是陳明通、國防部長邱國正、還有國安局，但是有很多是我們的檢調單位在監聽，被監察的號碼都有手機喔！你懂我意思嗎？他如果要變造，他如何取得這些手機？所以我覺得這個問題很大。","我請問秘書長，如果我們的立法院副院長或者我們的委員有被任何單位，不管是檢調單位、或者是國安局、或者是其他單位要監聽的話，會不會知會我們立法院？"],["林秘書長志嘉：現在我們並沒有接到任何這樣子的相關訊息，我們沒有被知會過。"],["王委員鴻薇：沒有被知會過，我剛才唸的這幾位立法委員在上面，有的是前立委，那我就不講……"],["林秘書長志嘉：如果有知會我們，原則上我們都會拒絕，我們認為他不應該監聽我們、也不可以監聽我們。"],["王委員鴻薇：好，您說如果有知會就會拒絕，那如果是助理呢？這裡面好多位助理，我必須講，跨政黨的立法委員助理都有，如果是助理呢？"],["林秘書長志嘉：所以這個到底是什麼狀況？其實委員對不起，我現在還不是……"],["王委員鴻薇：我看起來您一頭霧水，還有我們立法院秘書處、還有秘書處好多……"],["林秘書長志嘉：對，這到底是什麼？"],["王委員鴻薇：好，所以顯然你全部都在狀況外。我要講的是，雖然調查局在第一時間否認了這件事情，可是依我所收到的情資，我認為這裡面有一些我自己覺得怪怪的，我直接講，因為有些有簡體字，我覺得很奇怪、我自己覺得很奇怪！有一些比如說是邱國正去監聽、核發人是邱國正，我們國防部長去監聽我們駐外單位的、就是中華民國駐外國的這些代表，我也覺得很奇怪，怎麼會有我們的……因為如果是真的話，我覺得這簡直是不得了的事情！"],["林秘書長志嘉：所以這個會不會是假訊息？"],["王委員鴻薇：等一下、等一下，我還沒講完！你本來：哇！鬆一口氣。但你不要鬆一口氣……"],["林秘書長志嘉：也有可能……"],["王委員鴻薇：依我所瞭解的、我得到情資，裡面有一些被監察的對象是事實、確實有被監察，有的已經案子都辦出來了，有些被監察就是……因為它的單位太多了嘛！我剛剛講的只是一些國安單位、國防部、陳明通這一些，但是有很多的檢調單位，依我所瞭解，部分確實是被監察的！"],["林秘書長志嘉：謝謝委員……"],["王委員鴻薇：所以我要講的是，我沒有全盤否定這些名單，這些名單有的我自己也覺得很有疑問，因為我認為並不如調查局所說完全都是假的，但因為我覺得這裡面涉及我們立法院，包含上至副院長、立法委員、立法院助理、立法院秘書處，所以可不可以請秘書長瞭解一下，對不對？"],["林秘書長志嘉：謝謝委員，因為這個說實在我也是現在才知道啦，你剛剛也有說調查局第一時間也有否認這個不是事實，那沒關係，既然委員有提出來跟我們立法院有關的，所以我們有必要去瞭解它到底是怎麼回事。"],["王委員鴻薇：對，還是要跟這些相關的……"],["林秘書長志嘉：對！"],["王委員鴻薇：因為他們要具體……不是調查局一個新聞稿好像就唬弄過去，好不好？"],["林秘書長志嘉：是！謝謝委員提供這些訊息，不管這個訊息到底是怎麼樣，因為我們現在也還不清楚到底是什麼樣的事情，但我們總是也要瞭解看看。"],["王委員鴻薇：因為我認為這是非同小可的問題喔！"],["林秘書長志嘉：有必要瞭解。"],["王委員鴻薇：對不對？"],["林秘書長志嘉：不管它是真假，我們也必須要瞭解。"],["王委員鴻薇：對，我要講的是，它如果是假的，問題也很大，因為這裡面說實在的，那是政治風暴了！如果是真的，我也要講就是說，這個外洩也非常離譜，如果有一些相關的檢調單位他們確實在查一些案子，所以有一些是刑事辦案，他們在查一些案子，但是這些被監察的對象被曝光也是很嚴重的事情！你同不同意？對不對？假的、真的，我覺得都是很大條的事情，所以請秘書長，至少我剛剛講到的，我想其他人你可能也管不到嘛！因為它這裡面還有一些甚至是軍方的或者是地方的民意代表，很多啦，非常非常多！自己情治單位也有很多人被監聽。秘書長，你什麼時候可以給我們委員會一個答復？"],["林秘書長志嘉：因為這個狀況到底是怎麼樣我們也不知道，但是我們會儘快去瞭解，然後告訴委員會這是一個什麼樣的情形，好不好？我們會儘量。"],["王委員鴻薇：好，因為這麼多耶！還有好多助理也有在裡面，好不好？"],["林秘書長志嘉：好。"],["王委員鴻薇：好，謝謝。"],["主席：請秘書長把整個調查結果到時候再給我們司法及法制委員會，好不好？"],["林秘書長志嘉：好，我們來瞭解。"],["主席：好，謝謝。"],["林秘書長志嘉：好，謝謝。"],["主席：接下來請陳玉珍委員發言。"]],"agenda":{"page_end":362,"meet_id":"委員會-10-8-36-24","speakers":["林思銘","曾銘宗","鄭運鵬","江永昌","湯蕙禎","游毓蘭","王鴻薇","陳玉珍","劉建國","賴香伶","李德維","林淑芬","邱臣遠","謝衣鳯","吳琪銘"],"page_start":289,"meetingDate":["2023-12-07"],"gazette_id":"1129702","agenda_lcidc_ids":["1129702_00005"],"meet_name":"立法院第10屆第8會期司法及法制委員會第24次全體委員會議紀錄","content":"一、審查委員陳超明等22人擬具「立法院組織法第三十二條條文修正草案」案；二、併案審查\n(一)委員黃世杰等16人、(二)委員游毓蘭等17人及(三)委員黃世杰等16人分別擬具「司法人員人\n事條例部分條文修正草案」案；三、併案審查(一)委員劉建國等18人擬具「公教人員保險法第十\n二條條文修正草案」、(二)台灣民眾黨黨團及(三)委員邱志偉等17人分別擬具「公教人員保險法\n第三十六條條文修正草案」案","agenda_id":"1129702_00002"}},"transcript":{"id":"148909","pyannote":{"name":"ronny","tool":"pyannote","data":{"url":"https://ivod.ly.gov.tw/Play/Clip/1M/148909","tool":"pyannote","id":"148909-pyannote"},"job_id":"WXFoD6jWpRthWu2W","queued_at":"2025-10-22 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\"end\": 691.304, \"score\": 0.942}, {\"word\": \"來\"}, {\"word\": \"請\"}, {\"word\": \"啊\", \"start\": 691.304, \"end\": 691.324, \"score\": 0.052}], \"language\": \"zh\"}","srt":"1\n00:00:00,009 --> 00:00:01,030\n最近世上很多公務人員都在熱烈討論的就是衛福部的高級長官秘書處處長他的婚外情\n\n2\n00:00:21,881 --> 00:00:33,246\n車震人妻的事情那當然網路上也在熱議就是我們公務人員服務法在過去第五條有規定公務員應該誠實清廉謹慎勤勉不得有\n\n3\n00:00:38,368 --> 00:00:55,448\n交自貪惰奢侈放蕩以及也有賭博吸食煙毒等足以損失名譽之行為但是後來也是在我們院內同仁在提案修法之後把這些全部都拿掉了\n\n4\n00:00:56,309 --> 00:01:23,287\n所以很多人就說過去不得奢侈放蕩所以現在公務人員可以奢侈放蕩了嗎所以我想請問一下我們全序部的次長現在以衛福部這位處長他的行為有沒有違反我們相關的法令公務人員服務法有沒有違反\n\n5\n00:01:26,665 --> 00:01:44,234\n公務員服務法現在第2條講是公務員應該公正無私陳姓青年謹慎勤勉不得有損公務員名譽及政府信譽的行為所以這個部分他有沒有違反這第5條第6條你剛才現在把它改成第6條那你有沒有違反這個條文我覺得這個社會會評價\n\n6\n00:01:55,624 --> 00:02:17,312\n你們是主管機關怎麼變社會評價了那是讓大家來評論一下就算了我是覺得是有啦有齁所以按照我們公務員服務法來說的話那麼威福部他是他的這個主管嘛是不是應該要啟動相關的懲戒措施\n\n7\n00:02:20,173 --> 00:02:45,502\n嗯這個就看那個衛福部怎麼去做什麼就要看衛福部如果衛福部不懲戒因為衛福部的自己的長官就這樣子啊如果衛福部不懲戒所以我們的公務員服務法是擺好看的嗎不是你是主管機關嘛按照這樣的行為按照我們公務員服務法是不是應該依法啟動懲戒的相關的辦法\n\n8\n00:02:46,273 --> 00:03:07,018\n這個部分服務法是一個倫理規範的但是不是說全域部拿這個法去制各個機關應該是各個機關回來遵循這個法好所以如果衛福部不了了之寬大為懷因為他祈求大家原諒他所以就原諒他也就不了了之也就沒事了\n\n9\n00:03:08,499 --> 00:03:32,338\n那這個將來如果說衛福部有來問全區部我們會回答他你怎麼回答呢我們就是會以公務員服務法相當規範應該要懲戒對不對也不是就是依照這個規定你要審酌啦這樣子本來就是嘛不然我們公務員服務法公務員服務法是假的嗎已經越修越那個越隨便了乾脆就把這條全部拿掉算了\n\n10\n00:03:33,578 --> 00:03:57,597\n損害公務人員名義也沒有問題我覺得這個是一個影響關真的問題啊對不對我們很多軍警發生這樣的行為通通都被懲戒的啊那為什麼衛福部衛福部怎麼樣桃花院嗎桃花部嗎他們就無所謂所以我覺得這一點我們應該要站穩立場另外請教一下我們立法院秘書長\n\n11\n00:03:59,278 --> 00:04:25,505\n在昨天昨天有一個讓我們一看到其實非常非常震驚的一個訊息就是在網路上您大概有看到就是有很多所謂被情治單位在監聽的對象那麼你知道有很多我們立法院的委員嗎您知道嗎\n\n12\n00:04:27,901 --> 00:04:51,839\n監聽的對象是我們立法委員對在那個暴露在網路上公開的名單裡面有很多位是立法委員你知道嗎你沒有注意這個事情沒有注意好那我現在告訴你這個你網頁一打開第一個看到的是我們立法院的副院長蔡其昌而且連他的電話\n\n13\n00:04:54,178 --> 00:05:08,565\n因為他們都有監察電話他的電話都在上面而且呢是手機喔我們有沒有碼掉我們應該把它碼掉才對然後有蔡其昌副院長有邱太元委員\n\n14\n00:05:09,813 --> 00:05:24,105\n有黃國書委員而且黃國書委員他還是兩個機關兩個申請單位那這裡面當然還有好多立委的助理裡面還有很多是立委的助理因為我覺得\n\n15\n00:05:25,446 --> 00:05:50,215\n這個事情當然調查局昨天立刻出面否認這件事情但是因為事實上這邊所看到的資料裡面他們申請單位非常多有一些我老講我自己也覺得非常奇怪因為有很多是陳明通、邱國正、國防部長還有國安局但是也有很多是我們的檢調單位在監聽的\n\n16\n00:05:54,336 --> 00:06:03,840\n被監察的號碼都有手機喔你懂我意思嗎他如果要變造他如何取得這些手機所以我覺得這個問題很大我請問秘書長如果我們的\n\n17\n00:06:10,031 --> 00:06:24,437\n立法院副院長或者我們的委員有被任何單位不管是檢調單位或者是國安局或者是其他的這些單位要監聽的話會不會知會我們立法院現在我們並沒有接到任何這樣子的相關信息我們沒有被知會過\n\n18\n00:06:39,144 --> 00:07:07,183\n沒有被知會過我剛才念的這幾位立法委員在上面有的是前立委那我就不講如果有知會我們原則上我們都會拒絕我們認為他不應該監聽我們好您說就是說如果有知會就會拒絕那如果是助理呢這裡面好多位助理我必須講跨政黨的立法委員助理都有如果是助理呢\n\n19\n00:07:09,143 --> 00:07:19,226\n這個到底是什麼狀況其實委員對不起我現在還不是我看起來您一頭霧水還有我們立法院秘書處好多好所以顯然你全部都在狀況外我要講的是雖然調查局在第一時間否認了這件事情\n\n20\n00:07:29,508 --> 00:07:54,553\n可是我所收到的情資我認為這裡面有一些我自己覺得怪怪的我直接講因為有些他有監體制我覺得很奇怪我自己覺得很奇怪有一些比如說他有邱國正去監聽是核發人是邱國正我們國防部長去監聽我們駐外單位的就是駐中華民國的\n\n21\n00:07:56,053 --> 00:08:13,700\n外國的這些代表我也覺得很奇怪怎麼會有我們的因為如果是真的話我覺得這簡直是不得了的事情所以這個會不會是假訊息好等一下等一下我還沒講完所以你本來哇你趕快鬆一口氣你不要鬆一口氣喔有可能我所了解的\n\n22\n00:08:14,620 --> 00:08:43,483\n我得到情資裡面有一些的被監察的對象是事實確實有被監察有的都還已經案子都辦出來了有些被監察就是因為有他的單位太多了嘛我剛剛講的只是一些國安單位啊什麼國防部啊陳明通什麼這些但是有很多的檢調的單位我所了解部分確實是被監察的\n\n23\n00:08:46,044 --> 00:09:10,381\n所以我要講的是我沒有全盤否定這些名單這些有的名單我自己也覺得很有疑問因為我認為並不如調查局所說的完全都是假的但是因為我覺得這裡面涉及我們立法院包含上次副院長、立法委員、立法院助理、立法院秘書處所以可不可以請秘書長了解一下\n\n24\n00:09:11,243 --> 00:09:33,020\n那個謝謝委員因為這個說實在我也是現在才知道啦那你剛剛也有說調查局第一時間也有否認說這個不是事實那沒關係既然委員有提出來那跟我們立法院有關的所以我們有必要去了解他到底是怎麼回事對\n\n25\n00:09:34,401 --> 00:10:02,321\n對因為還是要跟這些相關因為他們要距離不是跳下去一個新聞稿這樣就會弄過去好不好謝謝委員提供這些信息不管這個信息到底是怎麼樣因為我們現在也還沒有清楚說到底是什麼樣的事情那但是我們總是也是要了解看看因為我認為這是非同小可的問題有必要了解不管它是真假我們也必須要了解對但有些它如果是真我要講的是\n\n26\n00:10:02,941 --> 00:10:11,661\n它如果是假的問題也很大因為這裡面說實在那就政治風暴了如果是真的我也要講就是說\n\n27\n00:10:13,155 --> 00:10:33,284\n這個外洩也非常離譜如果說有一些相關的檢調單位他們確實在查一些案子所以有些是一些刑事辦案他們查一些案子但是他這些被監察的對象被曝光也是很嚴重的事情你同不同意\n\n28\n00:10:34,551 --> 00:11:02,448\n對不對假的真的我覺得都都是很大條的事情所以請秘書長至少我剛剛講到我想可能其他人你可能也管不到嘛因為他這裡面還有一些甚至是軍方的啊或者是地方的民意代表很多啦非常非常多自己勤制單位也有很多人被監聽好所以那麼秘書長你什麼時候可以給我們那個委員會一個答覆\n\n29\n00:11:04,107 --> 00:11:31,324\n因為這個狀況到底是怎麼樣我們不知道我們但是我們會會儘快去去了解然後告訴委員會這是一個什麼樣的情形好不好好不好因為因為這麼多耶還有好多助理也也也有在裡面好不好好好謝謝謝謝那個整個調查的呃結果呢到時候再給我們司法法制委員會好好不好好好我們來了解好謝謝好謝謝好接下來請啊\n\n","tsv":"start\tend\ttext\n9\t1030\t最近世上很多公務人員都在熱烈討論的就是衛福部的高級長官秘書處處長他的婚外情\n21881\t33246\t車震人妻的事情那當然網路上也在熱議就是我們公務人員服務法在過去第五條有規定公務員應該誠實清廉謹慎勤勉不得有\n38368\t55448\t交自貪惰奢侈放蕩以及也有賭博吸食煙毒等足以損失名譽之行為但是後來也是在我們院內同仁在提案修法之後把這些全部都拿掉了\n56309\t83287\t所以很多人就說過去不得奢侈放蕩所以現在公務人員可以奢侈放蕩了嗎所以我想請問一下我們全序部的次長現在以衛福部這位處長他的行為有沒有違反我們相關的法令公務人員服務法有沒有違反\n86665\t104234\t公務員服務法現在第2條講是公務員應該公正無私陳姓青年 謹慎勤勉不得有損公務員名譽及政府信譽的行為所以這個部分他有沒有違反這第5條第6條你剛才 現在把它改成第6條那你有沒有違反這個條文我覺得這個社會會評價\n115624\t137312\t你們是主管機關怎麼變社會評價了那是讓大家來評論一下就算了我是覺得是有啦有齁所以按照我們公務員服務法來說的話那麼威福部他是他的這個主管嘛是不是應該要啟動相關的懲戒措施\n140173\t165502\t嗯 這個就看那個衛福部怎麼去做什麼就要看衛福部 如果衛福部不懲戒因為衛福部的自己的長官就這樣子啊如果衛福部不懲戒所以我們的公務員服務法是擺好看的嗎不是 你是主管機關嘛 按照這樣的行為按照我們公務員服務法是不是應該依法啟動懲戒的相關的辦法\n166273\t187018\t這個部分服務法是一個倫理規範的但是不是說全域部拿這個法去制各個機關應該是各個機關回來遵循這個法好 所以如果衛福部不了了之寬大為懷因為他祈求大家原諒他所以就原諒他 也就不了了之 也就沒事了\n188499\t212338\t那這個將來如果說衛福部有來問全區部我們會回答他你怎麼回答呢我們就是會以公務員服務法相當規範應該要懲戒對不對也不是就是依照這個規定你要審酌啦這樣子本來就是嘛不然我們公務員服務法公務員服務法是假的嗎已經越修越那個越隨便了乾脆就把這條全部拿掉算了\n213578\t237597\t損害公務人員名義也沒有問題我覺得這個是一個影響關真的問題啊對不對我們很多軍警發生這樣的行為通通都被懲戒的啊那為什麼 衛福部 衛福部怎麼樣桃花院嗎 桃花部嗎 他們就無所謂所以我覺得這一點我們應該要站穩立場另外請教一下我們立法院秘書長\n239278\t265505\t在昨天 昨天有一個讓我們一看到其實非常非常震驚的一個訊息就是在網路上 您大概有看到就是有很多所謂被情治單位在監聽的對象那麼你知道有很多我們立法院的委員嗎 您知道嗎\n267901\t291839\t監聽的對象是我們立法委員對在那個暴露在網路上公開的名單裡面有很多位是立法委員你知道嗎你沒有注意這個事情沒有注意好那我現在告訴你這個你網頁一打開第一個看到的是我們立法院的副院長蔡其昌而且連他的電話\n294178\t308565\t因為他們都有監察電話 他的電話都在上面而且呢 是手機喔我們有沒有碼掉 我們應該把它碼掉才對然後有蔡其昌副院長有邱太元委員\n309813\t324105\t有黃國書委員而且黃國書委員他還是兩個機關兩個申請單位那這裡面當然還有好多立委的助理裡面還有很多是立委的助理因為我覺得\n325446\t350215\t這個事情當然調查局昨天立刻出面否認這件事情但是因為事實上這邊所看到的資料裡面他們申請單位非常多有一些我老講我自己也覺得非常奇怪因為有很多是陳明通、邱國正、國防部長還有國安局但是也有很多是我們的檢調單位在監聽的\n354336\t363840\t被監察的號碼都有手機喔你懂我意思嗎他如果要變造他如何取得這些手機所以我覺得這個問題很大我請問秘書長如果我們的\n370031\t384437\t立法院副院長或者我們的委員有被任何單位不管是檢調單位或者是國安局或者是其他的這些單位要監聽的話會不會知會我們立法院現在我們並沒有接到任何這樣子的相關信息我們沒有被知會過\n399144\t427183\t沒有被知會過 我剛才念的這幾位立法委員在上面有的是前立委 那我就不講如果有知會我們 原則上我們都會拒絕我們認為他不應該監聽我們好 您說就是說如果有知會 就會拒絕那如果是助理呢 這裡面好多位助理我必須講跨政黨的立法委員助理都有如果是助理呢\n429143\t439226\t這個到底是什麼狀況其實委員對不起我現在還不是我看起來您一頭霧水還有我們立法院秘書處好多好所以顯然你全部都在狀況外我要講的是雖然調查局在第一時間否認了這件事情\n449508\t474553\t可是我所收到的情資我認為這裡面有一些我自己覺得怪怪的我直接講因為有些他有監體制我覺得很奇怪我自己覺得很奇怪有一些比如說他有邱國正去監聽是核發人是邱國正我們國防部長去監聽我們駐外單位的就是駐中華民國的\n476053\t493700\t外國的這些代表我也覺得很奇怪怎麼會有我們的因為如果是真的話我覺得這簡直是不得了的事情所以這個會不會是假訊息好等一下等一下我還沒講完所以你本來哇你趕快鬆一口氣你不要鬆一口氣喔有可能我所了解的\n494620\t523483\t我得到情資裡面有一些的被監察的對象是事實確實有被監察有的都還已經案子都辦出來了有些被監察就是因為有他的單位太多了嘛我剛剛講的只是一些國安單位啊什麼國防部啊陳明通什麼這些但是有很多的檢調的單位我所了解部分確實是被監察的\n526044\t550381\t所以我要講的是我沒有全盤否定這些名單這些有的名單我自己也覺得很有疑問因為我認為並不如調查局所說的完全都是假的但是因為我覺得這裡面涉及我們立法院包含上次副院長、立法委員、立法院助理、立法院秘書處所以可不可以請秘書長了解一下\n551243\t573020\t那個謝謝委員因為這個說實在我也是現在才知道啦那你剛剛也有說調查局第一時間也有否認說這個不是事實那沒關係既然委員有提出來那跟我們立法院有關的所以我們有必要去了解他到底是怎麼回事對\n574401\t602321\t對 因為還是要跟這些相關 因為他們要距離不是跳下去一個新聞稿 這樣就會弄過去 好不好謝謝委員提供這些信息 不管這個信息到底是怎麼樣因為我們現在也還沒有清楚說到底是什麼樣的事情那但是我們總是也是要了解看看因為我認為這是非同小可的問題有必要了解 不管它是真假我們也必須要了解對 但有些它如果是真 我要講的是\n602941\t611661\t它如果是假的 問題也很大因為這裡面說實在 那就政治風暴了如果是真的我也要講就是說\n613155\t633284\t這個外洩也非常離譜如果說有一些相關的檢調單位他們確實在查一些案子所以有些是一些刑事辦案他們查一些案子但是他這些被監察的對象被曝光也是很嚴重的事情你同不同意\n634551\t662448\t對不對假的真的我覺得都都是很大條的事情所以請秘書長至少我剛剛講到我想可能其他人你可能也管不到嘛因為他這裡面還有一些甚至是軍方的啊或者是地方的民意代表很多啦非常非常多自己勤制單位也有很多人被監聽好所以那麼秘書長你什麼時候可以給我們那個委員會一個答覆\n664107\t691324\t因為這個狀況到底是怎麼樣我們不知道我們但是我們會會儘快去去了解然後告訴委員會這是一個什麼樣的情形好不好好不好因為因為這麼多耶還有好多助理也也也有在裡面好不好好好謝謝謝謝那個整個調查的呃結果呢到時候再給我們司法法制委員會好好不好好好我們來了解好謝謝好謝謝好接下來請啊\n","txt":"最近世上很多公務人員都在熱烈討論的就是衛福部的高級長官秘書處處長他的婚外情\n車震人妻的事情那當然網路上也在熱議就是我們公務人員服務法在過去第五條有規定公務員應該誠實清廉謹慎勤勉不得有\n交自貪惰奢侈放蕩以及也有賭博吸食煙毒等足以損失名譽之行為但是後來也是在我們院內同仁在提案修法之後把這些全部都拿掉了\n所以很多人就說過去不得奢侈放蕩所以現在公務人員可以奢侈放蕩了嗎所以我想請問一下我們全序部的次長現在以衛福部這位處長他的行為有沒有違反我們相關的法令公務人員服務法有沒有違反\n公務員服務法現在第2條講是公務員應該公正無私陳姓青年 謹慎勤勉不得有損公務員名譽及政府信譽的行為所以這個部分他有沒有違反這第5條第6條你剛才 現在把它改成第6條那你有沒有違反這個條文我覺得這個社會會評價\n你們是主管機關怎麼變社會評價了那是讓大家來評論一下就算了我是覺得是有啦有齁所以按照我們公務員服務法來說的話那麼威福部他是他的這個主管嘛是不是應該要啟動相關的懲戒措施\n嗯 這個就看那個衛福部怎麼去做什麼就要看衛福部 如果衛福部不懲戒因為衛福部的自己的長官就這樣子啊如果衛福部不懲戒所以我們的公務員服務法是擺好看的嗎不是 你是主管機關嘛 按照這樣的行為按照我們公務員服務法是不是應該依法啟動懲戒的相關的辦法\n這個部分服務法是一個倫理規範的但是不是說全域部拿這個法去制各個機關應該是各個機關回來遵循這個法好 所以如果衛福部不了了之寬大為懷因為他祈求大家原諒他所以就原諒他 也就不了了之 也就沒事了\n那這個將來如果說衛福部有來問全區部我們會回答他你怎麼回答呢我們就是會以公務員服務法相當規範應該要懲戒對不對也不是就是依照這個規定你要審酌啦這樣子本來就是嘛不然我們公務員服務法公務員服務法是假的嗎已經越修越那個越隨便了乾脆就把這條全部拿掉算了\n損害公務人員名義也沒有問題我覺得這個是一個影響關真的問題啊對不對我們很多軍警發生這樣的行為通通都被懲戒的啊那為什麼 衛福部 衛福部怎麼樣桃花院嗎 桃花部嗎 他們就無所謂所以我覺得這一點我們應該要站穩立場另外請教一下我們立法院秘書長\n在昨天 昨天有一個讓我們一看到其實非常非常震驚的一個訊息就是在網路上 您大概有看到就是有很多所謂被情治單位在監聽的對象那麼你知道有很多我們立法院的委員嗎 您知道嗎\n監聽的對象是我們立法委員對在那個暴露在網路上公開的名單裡面有很多位是立法委員你知道嗎你沒有注意這個事情沒有注意好那我現在告訴你這個你網頁一打開第一個看到的是我們立法院的副院長蔡其昌而且連他的電話\n因為他們都有監察電話 他的電話都在上面而且呢 是手機喔我們有沒有碼掉 我們應該把它碼掉才對然後有蔡其昌副院長有邱太元委員\n有黃國書委員而且黃國書委員他還是兩個機關兩個申請單位那這裡面當然還有好多立委的助理裡面還有很多是立委的助理因為我覺得\n這個事情當然調查局昨天立刻出面否認這件事情但是因為事實上這邊所看到的資料裡面他們申請單位非常多有一些我老講我自己也覺得非常奇怪因為有很多是陳明通、邱國正、國防部長還有國安局但是也有很多是我們的檢調單位在監聽的\n被監察的號碼都有手機喔你懂我意思嗎他如果要變造他如何取得這些手機所以我覺得這個問題很大我請問秘書長如果我們的\n立法院副院長或者我們的委員有被任何單位不管是檢調單位或者是國安局或者是其他的這些單位要監聽的話會不會知會我們立法院現在我們並沒有接到任何這樣子的相關信息我們沒有被知會過\n沒有被知會過 我剛才念的這幾位立法委員在上面有的是前立委 那我就不講如果有知會我們 原則上我們都會拒絕我們認為他不應該監聽我們好 您說就是說如果有知會 就會拒絕那如果是助理呢 這裡面好多位助理我必須講跨政黨的立法委員助理都有如果是助理呢\n這個到底是什麼狀況其實委員對不起我現在還不是我看起來您一頭霧水還有我們立法院秘書處好多好所以顯然你全部都在狀況外我要講的是雖然調查局在第一時間否認了這件事情\n可是我所收到的情資我認為這裡面有一些我自己覺得怪怪的我直接講因為有些他有監體制我覺得很奇怪我自己覺得很奇怪有一些比如說他有邱國正去監聽是核發人是邱國正我們國防部長去監聽我們駐外單位的就是駐中華民國的\n外國的這些代表我也覺得很奇怪怎麼會有我們的因為如果是真的話我覺得這簡直是不得了的事情所以這個會不會是假訊息好等一下等一下我還沒講完所以你本來哇你趕快鬆一口氣你不要鬆一口氣喔有可能我所了解的\n我得到情資裡面有一些的被監察的對象是事實確實有被監察有的都還已經案子都辦出來了有些被監察就是因為有他的單位太多了嘛我剛剛講的只是一些國安單位啊什麼國防部啊陳明通什麼這些但是有很多的檢調的單位我所了解部分確實是被監察的\n所以我要講的是我沒有全盤否定這些名單這些有的名單我自己也覺得很有疑問因為我認為並不如調查局所說的完全都是假的但是因為我覺得這裡面涉及我們立法院包含上次副院長、立法委員、立法院助理、立法院秘書處所以可不可以請秘書長了解一下\n那個謝謝委員因為這個說實在我也是現在才知道啦那你剛剛也有說調查局第一時間也有否認說這個不是事實那沒關係既然委員有提出來那跟我們立法院有關的所以我們有必要去了解他到底是怎麼回事對\n對 因為還是要跟這些相關 因為他們要距離不是跳下去一個新聞稿 這樣就會弄過去 好不好謝謝委員提供這些信息 不管這個信息到底是怎麼樣因為我們現在也還沒有清楚說到底是什麼樣的事情那但是我們總是也是要了解看看因為我認為這是非同小可的問題有必要了解 不管它是真假我們也必須要了解對 但有些它如果是真 我要講的是\n它如果是假的 問題也很大因為這裡面說實在 那就政治風暴了如果是真的我也要講就是說\n這個外洩也非常離譜如果說有一些相關的檢調單位他們確實在查一些案子所以有些是一些刑事辦案他們查一些案子但是他這些被監察的對象被曝光也是很嚴重的事情你同不同意\n對不對假的真的我覺得都都是很大條的事情所以請秘書長至少我剛剛講到我想可能其他人你可能也管不到嘛因為他這裡面還有一些甚至是軍方的啊或者是地方的民意代表很多啦非常非常多自己勤制單位也有很多人被監聽好所以那麼秘書長你什麼時候可以給我們那個委員會一個答覆\n因為這個狀況到底是怎麼樣我們不知道我們但是我們會會儘快去去了解然後告訴委員會這是一個什麼樣的情形好不好好不好因為因為這麼多耶還有好多助理也也也有在裡面好不好好好謝謝謝謝那個整個調查的呃結果呢到時候再給我們司法法制委員會好好不好好好我們來了解好謝謝好謝謝好接下來請啊\n","vtt":"WEBVTT\n\n00:00.009 --> 00:01.030\n最近世上很多公務人員都在熱烈討論的就是衛福部的高級長官秘書處處長他的婚外情\n\n00:21.881 --> 00:33.246\n車震人妻的事情那當然網路上也在熱議就是我們公務人員服務法在過去第五條有規定公務員應該誠實清廉謹慎勤勉不得有\n\n00:38.368 --> 00:55.448\n交自貪惰奢侈放蕩以及也有賭博吸食煙毒等足以損失名譽之行為但是後來也是在我們院內同仁在提案修法之後把這些全部都拿掉了\n\n00:56.309 --> 01:23.287\n所以很多人就說過去不得奢侈放蕩所以現在公務人員可以奢侈放蕩了嗎所以我想請問一下我們全序部的次長現在以衛福部這位處長他的行為有沒有違反我們相關的法令公務人員服務法有沒有違反\n\n01:26.665 --> 01:44.234\n公務員服務法現在第2條講是公務員應該公正無私陳姓青年謹慎勤勉不得有損公務員名譽及政府信譽的行為所以這個部分他有沒有違反這第5條第6條你剛才現在把它改成第6條那你有沒有違反這個條文我覺得這個社會會評價\n\n01:55.624 --> 02:17.312\n你們是主管機關怎麼變社會評價了那是讓大家來評論一下就算了我是覺得是有啦有齁所以按照我們公務員服務法來說的話那麼威福部他是他的這個主管嘛是不是應該要啟動相關的懲戒措施\n\n02:20.173 --> 02:45.502\n嗯這個就看那個衛福部怎麼去做什麼就要看衛福部如果衛福部不懲戒因為衛福部的自己的長官就這樣子啊如果衛福部不懲戒所以我們的公務員服務法是擺好看的嗎不是你是主管機關嘛按照這樣的行為按照我們公務員服務法是不是應該依法啟動懲戒的相關的辦法\n\n02:46.273 --> 03:07.018\n這個部分服務法是一個倫理規範的但是不是說全域部拿這個法去制各個機關應該是各個機關回來遵循這個法好所以如果衛福部不了了之寬大為懷因為他祈求大家原諒他所以就原諒他也就不了了之也就沒事了\n\n03:08.499 --> 03:32.338\n那這個將來如果說衛福部有來問全區部我們會回答他你怎麼回答呢我們就是會以公務員服務法相當規範應該要懲戒對不對也不是就是依照這個規定你要審酌啦這樣子本來就是嘛不然我們公務員服務法公務員服務法是假的嗎已經越修越那個越隨便了乾脆就把這條全部拿掉算了\n\n03:33.578 --> 03:57.597\n損害公務人員名義也沒有問題我覺得這個是一個影響關真的問題啊對不對我們很多軍警發生這樣的行為通通都被懲戒的啊那為什麼衛福部衛福部怎麼樣桃花院嗎桃花部嗎他們就無所謂所以我覺得這一點我們應該要站穩立場另外請教一下我們立法院秘書長\n\n03:59.278 --> 04:25.505\n在昨天昨天有一個讓我們一看到其實非常非常震驚的一個訊息就是在網路上您大概有看到就是有很多所謂被情治單位在監聽的對象那麼你知道有很多我們立法院的委員嗎您知道嗎\n\n04:27.901 --> 04:51.839\n監聽的對象是我們立法委員對在那個暴露在網路上公開的名單裡面有很多位是立法委員你知道嗎你沒有注意這個事情沒有注意好那我現在告訴你這個你網頁一打開第一個看到的是我們立法院的副院長蔡其昌而且連他的電話\n\n04:54.178 --> 05:08.565\n因為他們都有監察電話他的電話都在上面而且呢是手機喔我們有沒有碼掉我們應該把它碼掉才對然後有蔡其昌副院長有邱太元委員\n\n05:09.813 --> 05:24.105\n有黃國書委員而且黃國書委員他還是兩個機關兩個申請單位那這裡面當然還有好多立委的助理裡面還有很多是立委的助理因為我覺得\n\n05:25.446 --> 05:50.215\n這個事情當然調查局昨天立刻出面否認這件事情但是因為事實上這邊所看到的資料裡面他們申請單位非常多有一些我老講我自己也覺得非常奇怪因為有很多是陳明通、邱國正、國防部長還有國安局但是也有很多是我們的檢調單位在監聽的\n\n05:54.336 --> 06:03.840\n被監察的號碼都有手機喔你懂我意思嗎他如果要變造他如何取得這些手機所以我覺得這個問題很大我請問秘書長如果我們的\n\n06:10.031 --> 06:24.437\n立法院副院長或者我們的委員有被任何單位不管是檢調單位或者是國安局或者是其他的這些單位要監聽的話會不會知會我們立法院現在我們並沒有接到任何這樣子的相關信息我們沒有被知會過\n\n06:39.144 --> 07:07.183\n沒有被知會過我剛才念的這幾位立法委員在上面有的是前立委那我就不講如果有知會我們原則上我們都會拒絕我們認為他不應該監聽我們好您說就是說如果有知會就會拒絕那如果是助理呢這裡面好多位助理我必須講跨政黨的立法委員助理都有如果是助理呢\n\n07:09.143 --> 07:19.226\n這個到底是什麼狀況其實委員對不起我現在還不是我看起來您一頭霧水還有我們立法院秘書處好多好所以顯然你全部都在狀況外我要講的是雖然調查局在第一時間否認了這件事情\n\n07:29.508 --> 07:54.553\n可是我所收到的情資我認為這裡面有一些我自己覺得怪怪的我直接講因為有些他有監體制我覺得很奇怪我自己覺得很奇怪有一些比如說他有邱國正去監聽是核發人是邱國正我們國防部長去監聽我們駐外單位的就是駐中華民國的\n\n07:56.053 --> 08:13.700\n外國的這些代表我也覺得很奇怪怎麼會有我們的因為如果是真的話我覺得這簡直是不得了的事情所以這個會不會是假訊息好等一下等一下我還沒講完所以你本來哇你趕快鬆一口氣你不要鬆一口氣喔有可能我所了解的\n\n08:14.620 --> 08:43.483\n我得到情資裡面有一些的被監察的對象是事實確實有被監察有的都還已經案子都辦出來了有些被監察就是因為有他的單位太多了嘛我剛剛講的只是一些國安單位啊什麼國防部啊陳明通什麼這些但是有很多的檢調的單位我所了解部分確實是被監察的\n\n08:46.044 --> 09:10.381\n所以我要講的是我沒有全盤否定這些名單這些有的名單我自己也覺得很有疑問因為我認為並不如調查局所說的完全都是假的但是因為我覺得這裡面涉及我們立法院包含上次副院長、立法委員、立法院助理、立法院秘書處所以可不可以請秘書長了解一下\n\n09:11.243 --> 09:33.020\n那個謝謝委員因為這個說實在我也是現在才知道啦那你剛剛也有說調查局第一時間也有否認說這個不是事實那沒關係既然委員有提出來那跟我們立法院有關的所以我們有必要去了解他到底是怎麼回事對\n\n09:34.401 --> 10:02.321\n對因為還是要跟這些相關因為他們要距離不是跳下去一個新聞稿這樣就會弄過去好不好謝謝委員提供這些信息不管這個信息到底是怎麼樣因為我們現在也還沒有清楚說到底是什麼樣的事情那但是我們總是也是要了解看看因為我認為這是非同小可的問題有必要了解不管它是真假我們也必須要了解對但有些它如果是真我要講的是\n\n10:02.941 --> 10:11.661\n它如果是假的問題也很大因為這裡面說實在那就政治風暴了如果是真的我也要講就是說\n\n10:13.155 --> 10:33.284\n這個外洩也非常離譜如果說有一些相關的檢調單位他們確實在查一些案子所以有些是一些刑事辦案他們查一些案子但是他這些被監察的對象被曝光也是很嚴重的事情你同不同意\n\n10:34.551 --> 11:02.448\n對不對假的真的我覺得都都是很大條的事情所以請秘書長至少我剛剛講到我想可能其他人你可能也管不到嘛因為他這裡面還有一些甚至是軍方的啊或者是地方的民意代表很多啦非常非常多自己勤制單位也有很多人被監聽好所以那麼秘書長你什麼時候可以給我們那個委員會一個答覆\n\n11:04.107 --> 11:31.324\n因為這個狀況到底是怎麼樣我們不知道我們但是我們會會儘快去去了解然後告訴委員會這是一個什麼樣的情形好不好好不好因為因為這麼多耶還有好多助理也也也有在裡面好不好好好謝謝謝謝那個整個調查的呃結果呢到時候再給我們司法法制委員會好好不好好好我們來了解好謝謝好謝謝好接下來請啊\n\n","segments":[{"start":0.009,"end":1.03,"text":"最近世上很多公務人員都在熱烈討論的就是衛福部的高級長官秘書處處長他的婚外情"},{"start":21.881,"end":33.246,"text":"車震人妻的事情那當然網路上也在熱議就是我們公務人員服務法在過去第五條有規定公務員應該誠實清廉謹慎勤勉不得有"},{"start":38.368,"end":55.448,"text":"交自貪惰奢侈放蕩以及也有賭博吸食煙毒等足以損失名譽之行為但是後來也是在我們院內同仁在提案修法之後把這些全部都拿掉了"},{"start":56.309,"end":83.287,"text":"所以很多人就說過去不得奢侈放蕩所以現在公務人員可以奢侈放蕩了嗎所以我想請問一下我們全序部的次長現在以衛福部這位處長他的行為有沒有違反我們相關的法令公務人員服務法有沒有違反"},{"start":86.665,"end":104.234,"text":"公務員服務法現在第2條講是公務員應該公正無私陳姓青年 謹慎勤勉不得有損公務員名譽及政府信譽的行為所以這個部分他有沒有違反這第5條第6條你剛才 現在把它改成第6條那你有沒有違反這個條文我覺得這個社會會評價"},{"start":115.624,"end":137.312,"text":"你們是主管機關怎麼變社會評價了那是讓大家來評論一下就算了我是覺得是有啦有齁所以按照我們公務員服務法來說的話那麼威福部他是他的這個主管嘛是不是應該要啟動相關的懲戒措施"},{"start":140.173,"end":165.502,"text":"嗯 這個就看那個衛福部怎麼去做什麼就要看衛福部 如果衛福部不懲戒因為衛福部的自己的長官就這樣子啊如果衛福部不懲戒所以我們的公務員服務法是擺好看的嗎不是 你是主管機關嘛 按照這樣的行為按照我們公務員服務法是不是應該依法啟動懲戒的相關的辦法"},{"start":166.273,"end":187.018,"text":"這個部分服務法是一個倫理規範的但是不是說全域部拿這個法去制各個機關應該是各個機關回來遵循這個法好 所以如果衛福部不了了之寬大為懷因為他祈求大家原諒他所以就原諒他 也就不了了之 也就沒事了"},{"start":188.499,"end":212.338,"text":"那這個將來如果說衛福部有來問全區部我們會回答他你怎麼回答呢我們就是會以公務員服務法相當規範應該要懲戒對不對也不是就是依照這個規定你要審酌啦這樣子本來就是嘛不然我們公務員服務法公務員服務法是假的嗎已經越修越那個越隨便了乾脆就把這條全部拿掉算了"},{"start":213.578,"end":237.597,"text":"損害公務人員名義也沒有問題我覺得這個是一個影響關真的問題啊對不對我們很多軍警發生這樣的行為通通都被懲戒的啊那為什麼 衛福部 衛福部怎麼樣桃花院嗎 桃花部嗎 他們就無所謂所以我覺得這一點我們應該要站穩立場另外請教一下我們立法院秘書長"},{"start":239.278,"end":265.505,"text":"在昨天 昨天有一個讓我們一看到其實非常非常震驚的一個訊息就是在網路上 您大概有看到就是有很多所謂被情治單位在監聽的對象那麼你知道有很多我們立法院的委員嗎 您知道嗎"},{"start":267.901,"end":291.839,"text":"監聽的對象是我們立法委員對在那個暴露在網路上公開的名單裡面有很多位是立法委員你知道嗎你沒有注意這個事情沒有注意好那我現在告訴你這個你網頁一打開第一個看到的是我們立法院的副院長蔡其昌而且連他的電話"},{"start":294.178,"end":308.565,"text":"因為他們都有監察電話 他的電話都在上面而且呢 是手機喔我們有沒有碼掉 我們應該把它碼掉才對然後有蔡其昌副院長有邱太元委員"},{"start":309.813,"end":324.105,"text":"有黃國書委員而且黃國書委員他還是兩個機關兩個申請單位那這裡面當然還有好多立委的助理裡面還有很多是立委的助理因為我覺得"},{"start":325.446,"end":350.215,"text":"這個事情當然調查局昨天立刻出面否認這件事情但是因為事實上這邊所看到的資料裡面他們申請單位非常多有一些我老講我自己也覺得非常奇怪因為有很多是陳明通、邱國正、國防部長還有國安局但是也有很多是我們的檢調單位在監聽的"},{"start":354.336,"end":363.84,"text":"被監察的號碼都有手機喔你懂我意思嗎他如果要變造他如何取得這些手機所以我覺得這個問題很大我請問秘書長如果我們的"},{"start":370.031,"end":384.437,"text":"立法院副院長或者我們的委員有被任何單位不管是檢調單位或者是國安局或者是其他的這些單位要監聽的話會不會知會我們立法院現在我們並沒有接到任何這樣子的相關信息我們沒有被知會過"},{"start":399.144,"end":427.183,"text":"沒有被知會過 我剛才念的這幾位立法委員在上面有的是前立委 那我就不講如果有知會我們 原則上我們都會拒絕我們認為他不應該監聽我們好 您說就是說如果有知會 就會拒絕那如果是助理呢 這裡面好多位助理我必須講跨政黨的立法委員助理都有如果是助理呢"},{"start":429.143,"end":439.226,"text":"這個到底是什麼狀況其實委員對不起我現在還不是我看起來您一頭霧水還有我們立法院秘書處好多好所以顯然你全部都在狀況外我要講的是雖然調查局在第一時間否認了這件事情"},{"start":449.508,"end":474.553,"text":"可是我所收到的情資我認為這裡面有一些我自己覺得怪怪的我直接講因為有些他有監體制我覺得很奇怪我自己覺得很奇怪有一些比如說他有邱國正去監聽是核發人是邱國正我們國防部長去監聽我們駐外單位的就是駐中華民國的"},{"start":476.053,"end":493.7,"text":"外國的這些代表我也覺得很奇怪怎麼會有我們的因為如果是真的話我覺得這簡直是不得了的事情所以這個會不會是假訊息好等一下等一下我還沒講完所以你本來哇你趕快鬆一口氣你不要鬆一口氣喔有可能我所了解的"},{"start":494.62,"end":523.483,"text":"我得到情資裡面有一些的被監察的對象是事實確實有被監察有的都還已經案子都辦出來了有些被監察就是因為有他的單位太多了嘛我剛剛講的只是一些國安單位啊什麼國防部啊陳明通什麼這些但是有很多的檢調的單位我所了解部分確實是被監察的"},{"start":526.044,"end":550.381,"text":"所以我要講的是我沒有全盤否定這些名單這些有的名單我自己也覺得很有疑問因為我認為並不如調查局所說的完全都是假的但是因為我覺得這裡面涉及我們立法院包含上次副院長、立法委員、立法院助理、立法院秘書處所以可不可以請秘書長了解一下"},{"start":551.243,"end":573.02,"text":"那個謝謝委員因為這個說實在我也是現在才知道啦那你剛剛也有說調查局第一時間也有否認說這個不是事實那沒關係既然委員有提出來那跟我們立法院有關的所以我們有必要去了解他到底是怎麼回事對"},{"start":574.401,"end":602.321,"text":"對 因為還是要跟這些相關 因為他們要距離不是跳下去一個新聞稿 這樣就會弄過去 好不好謝謝委員提供這些信息 不管這個信息到底是怎麼樣因為我們現在也還沒有清楚說到底是什麼樣的事情那但是我們總是也是要了解看看因為我認為這是非同小可的問題有必要了解 不管它是真假我們也必須要了解對 但有些它如果是真 我要講的是"},{"start":602.941,"end":611.661,"text":"它如果是假的 問題也很大因為這裡面說實在 那就政治風暴了如果是真的我也要講就是說"},{"start":613.155,"end":633.284,"text":"這個外洩也非常離譜如果說有一些相關的檢調單位他們確實在查一些案子所以有些是一些刑事辦案他們查一些案子但是他這些被監察的對象被曝光也是很嚴重的事情你同不同意"},{"start":634.551,"end":662.448,"text":"對不對假的真的我覺得都都是很大條的事情所以請秘書長至少我剛剛講到我想可能其他人你可能也管不到嘛因為他這裡面還有一些甚至是軍方的啊或者是地方的民意代表很多啦非常非常多自己勤制單位也有很多人被監聽好所以那麼秘書長你什麼時候可以給我們那個委員會一個答覆"},{"start":664.107,"end":691.324,"text":"因為這個狀況到底是怎麼樣我們不知道我們但是我們會會儘快去去了解然後告訴委員會這是一個什麼樣的情形好不好好不好因為因為這麼多耶還有好多助理也也也有在裡面好不好好好謝謝謝謝那個整個調查的呃結果呢到時候再給我們司法法制委員會好好不好好好我們來了解好謝謝好謝謝好接下來請啊"}]}}}}