{"id":148913,"url":"https://ivod.ly.gov.tw/Play/Clip/1M/148913","video_url":"https://ivod-lyvod.cdn.hinet.net/vod_1/_definst_/mp4:1MClips/1488b65508d71c04246a100f4b4125115de4c744a3d84f2dc986728e607a0322ea997af55ec8e5e15ea18f28b6918d91.mp4/playlist.m3u8","委員名稱":"林淑芬","委員發言時間":"11:06:00 - 11:22:18","影片長度":"00:16:18","會議時間":"2023-12-07T09:00:00+08:00","會議名稱":"立法院第10屆第8會期司法及法制委員會第24次全體委員會議（事由：一、審查委員陳超明等22人擬具「立法院組織法第三十二條條文修正草案」案。\n二、併案審查（一）委員黃世杰等16人、（二）委員游毓蘭等17人及（三）委員黃世杰等16人分別擬具「司法人員人事條例部分條文修正草案」案。\n三、併案審查（一）委員劉建國等18人擬具「公教人員保險法第十二條條文修正草案」、（二）台灣民眾黨黨團及（三）委員邱志偉等17人分別擬具「公教人員保險法第三十六條條文修正草案」案。）","meet":{"tmpMeeting":null,"title":"第10屆第8會期司法及法制委員會第24次全體委員會議","term":10,"type":"委員會","sessionPeriod":8,"sessionTimes":24,"committees":[36],"id":"委員會-10-8-36-24"},"date":"2023-12-07","duration":978,"end_time":"2023-12-07T11:22:18+08:00","start_time":"2023-12-07T11:06:00+08:00","features":["gazette"],"type":"Clip","gazette":{"lineno":788,"blocks":[["林委員淑芬：（11時6分）不好意思，剛才聽到李德維委員的發言，忽然有種他下一屆不來了，好像人之將死，其言也善！請教秘書長，今天陳超明委員的提案，事實上在上次質詢的時候就談過了……"],["林秘書長志嘉：對，等於是大家的共識……"],["林委員淑芬：大家都有共識……"],["林秘書長志嘉：我們會趕快來做。"],["林委員淑芬：2年4,500元健檢，同一屆兩次費用可以合併使用，可以吧？"],["林秘書長志嘉：可以。"],["林委員淑芬：採實報實銷？"],["林秘書長志嘉：對。"],["林委員淑芬：記得我曾談到希望鼓勵院內同仁自主運動和健康促進……"],["林秘書長志嘉：有。我們總務處……"],["林委員淑芬：現在進度到哪裡？"],["林秘書長志嘉：請總務處報告一下。"],["林委員淑芬：不論是助理還是職員，院內所有的人……"],["林秘書長志嘉：積極去……"],["林委員淑芬：我們希望能與附近鄰近的運動中心特約合作，提供這些人運動和補助。"],["周處長傑：跟委員報告，我們已經洽請中正健康運動中心，就在我們附近，他說沒有問題，我們可以跟他正式……不管是用合作社方式，或立法院名義跟他簽一紙合約，他會給我們員工優待……"],["林委員淑芬：優待會是多少折？"],["周處長傑：他要請示，這個簽了就知道。"],["林委員淑芬：當然儘量要越低越好。"],["周處長傑：對……"],["林委員淑芬：他們要照他們的員工價嗎？"],["周處長傑：優惠價，不能叫員工價。"],["林委員淑芬：優惠價？"],["周處長傑：對。"],["林委員淑芬：優惠價也要實至啊！"],["周處長傑：對。"],["林委員淑芬：口惠也要實至啊！"],["林秘書長志嘉：我們會儘量爭取。"],["周處長傑：但是有一個問題，就是場館部分，像羽毛球、乒乓球的場館部分還是要排隊，沒有特權。"],["林委員淑芬：排隊？當然要排隊啊！"],["周處長傑：排隊要登記。"],["林委員淑芬：那沒問題。好，謝謝。秘書長，其實國會助理在工作上還有其他的困境。2022年臺灣大學有一篇學術論文叫「國會助理工作壓力和離職傾向研究」，該份研究是根據國會助理職業工會在2017年的調查而來，國會助理的平均年資是多久你知道嗎？"],["林秘書長志嘉：時間多久還是……"],["林委員淑芬：對，他們的平均年資。以現在立法院的助理來說，他們平均起來的國會助理平均年資是多久？"],["林秘書長志嘉：應該……"],["林委員淑芬：不知道！"],["林秘書長志嘉：可能一兩年吧！"],["林委員淑芬：為什麼要講這個？因為這個很重要！你說一、兩年？好，國會助理是立委在國會問政的臂膀，更是國家發展及制度法規上的幕後推手！根據2017年的調查，國會助理平均年資是兩年多，而年資在四年以下的高達57.8%，你覺得這樣的年資是長還是短？"],["林秘書長志嘉：這樣當然是流動性太高了！"],["林委員淑芬：流動性太高？沒錯！"],["林秘書長志嘉：一任四年……"],["林委員淑芬：對！"],["林秘書長志嘉：他大概做不到一半的時間就離開了。"],["林委員淑芬：四年一任都做不到的有57.8%，所以國會助理在立法院服務年資過短，對國家長期發展必定有相當程度的不良影響。我們國會立委都說要資深制，國會助理更是要資深制啊！結果我們的現況是國會助理是2年、2年多，由此可見這裡的工作環境和條件應該很差，立法院的工作環境和條件應該很差啦，差到大家都不想來這裡工作了。所以這一篇論文要探討的是國會助理個人屬性、職場表現、外在因素跟工作壓力的相關性，並分析國會助理工作壓力跟離職傾向之間的相關性。他除了做文獻研究以外，還做了深度訪談，他以16位現職於立法院公費助理作為訪談對象，然後發現了幾個部分，一個是受訪者普遍認為工作壓力跟離職傾向具有關聯，包含工作內容過於繁重，這本來就是，還有工作處理時效過短、薪資過低、職業生涯沒有保障且不穩定，立委任期4年一任，老闆換了他就要換工作，還有職場上的人際關係等等，都可能成為國會助理產生影響其離職傾向的工作壓力，進而成為產生離職的因素。"],["林秘書長志嘉：的確是這樣。"],["林委員淑芬：這些都是啊，工作繁重跟報酬不成比例啊，然後這一些都還跟他的工作不穩定有相關，因為一任立委4年而已。第二個，受訪者都表示應該儘速讓國會助理法制化，使國會助理的權益被保障，讓助理有完善的年資累積機制，而且要設輔導教學機制及心理輔導單位以保障國會助理的權益，進而降低國會助理的離職率。秘書長，這樣有道理嗎？"],["林秘書長志嘉：這樣是很有道理的啦，也應該這樣去做……"],["林委員淑芬：既然很有道理，那要怎麼做呢？"],["林秘書長志嘉：其實我當立委也當過5屆啦，我也很希望幫國會助理來爭取福利……"],["林委員淑芬：健檢是最簡單的啦！"],["林秘書長志嘉：儘量來爭取……"],["林委員淑芬：健檢補助是最簡單的！"],["林秘書長志嘉：現在國會助理為什麼沒有辦法納入，就是因為他的身分，他沒有公務人員的身分，所以……"],["林委員淑芬：我們現在在想的就是要解決這件事啊！"],["林秘書長志嘉：所以這個問題就變成很棘手，都會卡在這裡，所以……"],["林委員淑芬：有公務人員身分的人不見得能夠勝任國會助理的工作和專業。"],["林秘書長志嘉：沒有錯，但是因為他們沒有這個身分，所以很多的福利以及很多的保障等等就沒有辦法適用在他們身上，所以我們是不是想一個辦法，大家一起想個辦法……"],["林委員淑芬：想一個辦法？好，你去想一下啊！"],["林秘書長志嘉：看能不能跟考試院或什麼，他們提出一個……"],["林委員淑芬：你要主動去討論一下！"],["林秘書長志嘉：……一個助理的考試制度或什麼，讓這些助理有一個依據，然後可以累積，才能夠使助理有點保障，這個可能……"],["林委員淑芬：好。好啦，你去想一下啦！"],["林秘書長志嘉：這個要好好想一下……"],["林委員淑芬：現在我要再說到設置心理輔導機制，我們這裡有心理輔導的資源嗎？立法院現況。"],["林秘書長志嘉：現況是有啦。"],["林委員淑芬：有什麼？"],["林秘書長志嘉：我們的醫務室就有了。"],["林委員淑芬：醫務室？醫務室一個禮拜看幾個小時？二個小時，有沒有經常請假？醫務室很多醫生都經常請假，我們要去看醫生都看不到啊！再來，醫務室的看診沒有隱私性喔，我們都是開放空間不關門的，你要做心理輔導會到沒有關門、小小的、護理師及護理長大家都聽得到的地方去輔導嗎？"],["林秘書長志嘉：心理輔導這個領域，事實上我們真的要……"],["林委員淑芬：心理輔導這個領域，我先跟你講，勞動部……"],["林秘書長志嘉：空間的確……"],["林委員淑芬：你知道EAPs嗎？EAPs就是Employee Assistance Programs，勞動部的定義是企業為了處理員工的健康、心理或家庭問題，透過早期的員工輔導，然後去採取員工協助方案，透過服務系統的建置及專業服務的提供去預防或解決個人工作表現的相關因素，譬如工作適應、人際關係、家庭關係、健康及法律等等。所以這個EAPs包含要發現問題、問題評估及問題解決的系統，然後依據這一些需求和工作性質去選擇適當的服務模式。我們立法院助理、職員工加起來有多少人？"],["林秘書長志嘉：我們現在的確在這個部分做得不夠啦，的確如此。"],["林委員淑芬：我們加起來有多少人？我們算是一個大企業，比大企業更加的大企業耶！"],["林秘書長志嘉：我們有一千多人。"],["林委員淑芬：對啊，我們有一千多人，但是我們什麼都沒有！現在我要說的是EAPs這個概念，從雇主和受僱的勞工之間，其實企業都會採取這樣一個模式，是留才久用，也解決企業裡面這些受僱員工的問題，事實上是很重要的。"],["林秘書長志嘉：好，謝謝委員對於這方面的建議。"],["林委員淑芬：我在這裡分享一個臺灣科技大學的員工協助方案給你參考，臺灣科技大學的人比我們還少喔，他們開放給教職員、駐衛警、校務基金聘用的約聘僱人員，也給領研究費項下的臨時專任助理使用，然後他們的心理諮商是特約機構合作模式，……"],["林秘書長志嘉：特約機構。"],["林委員淑芬：請臺師大的社區諮商中心的心理諮商所提供服務，服務對象我剛剛已經講了，連臨時人員都去了，服務的方式是上網填寫表單、去電預約，而且要做到身分保密，還要注重申請人的隱私，那個機構叫做心田心理諮商所，他們去之前會先填資料，包括想要去那裡談什麼，是情緒困擾、壓力調適、生涯規劃、人際關係或家庭關係，為什麼講這個，你知道吧？最近有一位立法院公報處員工下跪陳情不滿主管飆髒話威脅考績打乙等。喔，這個主管顯然有一些情緒失控的問題，這個下跪的人別無他法了，需要尋求體制外，還到下跪了，給你下跪了，遞交陳情書了，他受到了相當大的壓力，考績打乙等的壓力，他也需要輔導。對其他的國會助理來講，也需要心理輔導。","所以我要講的是，其實我們這個地方比起臺科大，比起其他的私人企業，我們真的是相當需要這個 EAPs專案啦！我們需要這個 EAPs專案，應該要儘速地來提供心理諮商的資源，因為這個壓力來源，像助理，除了老闆給他壓力、選舉的壓力之外，他也有家庭的壓力。老闆叫他要加班，現在選舉到了，老闆叫他要到南部去下鄉，然後他家庭裡面不允許他這麼做，壓力雙重，快要崩潰了。所以在這種狀況裡面，有時候他可能就是需要一些輔導的機制或是一些輔導的資源進來。","秘書長，你自己也是綜管全院，你一定可以理解到立法院的職場生活，不論是這些助理或是職員工，甚至是立委本人啦，每個人在不同場域感受到壓力強弱都不同，我們真的真的需要立法院提供這樣的資源協助，去提升助理或是職員工對個人心理健康的意識，也要積極地照顧這些助理和職員工的心理健康。"],["林秘書長志嘉：好。"],["林委員淑芬：我想4,500元照顧有形的肉體，但是心理上的、壓力上的也不亞於這4,500元的健檢，可能還更急迫。我再講一個「報導者」的文章……"],["林秘書長志嘉：我先回應一下，這個我有同感，而且也感謝委員提出了這麼好的一個方案，人家臺科大能夠做到，我想我們應該也可以做到，我們會來向臺科大學習，然後我們會儘量的在最短時間內有一個這樣的措施。"],["林委員淑芬：那明年度的預算就可以編列了，如果你們3個月研議好了，大概會有多少需求……"],["林秘書長志嘉：明年度的預算……"],["林委員淑芬：沒有啦，我是說你在明年4月要編預算的時候啊！"],["林秘書長志嘉：對、對、對，明年度的……"],["林委員淑芬：4月要編預算，現在年底了，大概有3個月讓你研議啊，看一下我們員工的需求啊……"],["林秘書長志嘉：沒錯，可以……"],["林委員淑芬：尋求專業所需要的資源預估是多少啊……"],["林秘書長志嘉：明年度應該就可以來編列。"],["林委員淑芬：編列預算，所以可以在後年就開始了嘛！"],["林秘書長志嘉：對、對、對，後年開始。"],["林委員淑芬：因為那的確是需要資源挹注……"],["林秘書長志嘉：沒錯。"],["林委員淑芬：的確是需要經費預算。"],["林秘書長志嘉：OK，好。"],["林委員淑芬：我們講這個是因為心理健康求助常態化是有助於降低自殺的認知可能性，在臺灣要做一個重視心理健康的政策，看起來好像是很前瞻、很創舉，可是事實上在外國，其實人家都很普遍了，而且投入很大筆經費來行動。臺大公衛學院健康行為和社區科學研究所所長張書森就說到，其實在英國他們的健保就直接支持這個諮商計畫，在澳洲，心理健康是個政治議題，他們從事政治人物的人都要提出心理健康的方案，所以大家非常看重所謂的心理健康這個層次。就個人層次來講，他也非常倡議應該要普遍認同只要有心理上的問題要去求助，可是求助這件事情是需要學習的！突然說我有壓力，但我不知道怎麼講出來，也不知道自己有壓力，甚至沒有意識到自己有壓力，他沒有辦法去求助，想要求助也不知道怎麼講、也不知道怎麼表達。所以在這種狀況裡面，心理諮商不是說我們看電影裡面躺在躺椅上，然後心理諮商師跟你講話，也不是只有這樣子而已，所以透過國家級的投入和補助，讓求助常態化可以替代自殺常態化。當然，我們立法院對於心理輔導、心理諮商這一塊還不是為了解決自殺這一塊，但我們早期介入輔導，有設資源、有設管道，讓大家可以進去。否則你看我們立法院公報處員工下跪陳情，公報處的處長把國會頻道的承辦職員叫到辦公室怒罵，不斷地以情緒怒罵，還大罵髒話，所有人都聽得到，然後威脅要給人家考績打乙等，這一些都已經失控了，的確也需要一些專業！不只是職員工，助理也很多鬱悶啦！不只是助理，立委也有很多壓力啦！所以我們期待明年度預算就可以編列，立法院的EAPs就可以上路。"],["林秘書長志嘉：好。"],["林委員淑芬：有關員工協助方案，秘書長，你承諾了，那就是我們下個階段，明年度要跟健檢預算一樣同時上路喔！"],["林秘書長志嘉：好。"],["林委員淑芬：好，謝謝。"],["林秘書長志嘉：可以，謝謝委員。"],["主席：謝謝林淑芬委員的建議，很棒！"],["林委員淑芬：有壓力喔？"],["主席：沒有，很好，你講得很好。"],["林委員淑芬：要輔導喔！我要輔導。"],["主席：我們都要輔導。"],["林秘書長志嘉：好啦！到時候我們編預算的時候請大家支持。"],["主席：好，謝謝。"],["林委員淑芬：要專業的，錢是立法院出喔！"],["主席：我們支持啦！","接下來請邱臣遠委員、邱臣遠委員，邱臣遠委員不在。","所有登記發言委員均已發言完畢，詢答結束。委員質詢時要求提供相關資料或以書面答復者，請相關機關儘速送交個別委員及本會。","委員邱臣遠、謝衣鳯、吳琪銘所提書面質詢均列入紀錄，刊登公報，並請相關機關以書面答復。"]],"agenda":{"page_end":362,"meet_id":"委員會-10-8-36-24","speakers":["林思銘","曾銘宗","鄭運鵬","江永昌","湯蕙禎","游毓蘭","王鴻薇","陳玉珍","劉建國","賴香伶","李德維","林淑芬","邱臣遠","謝衣鳯","吳琪銘"],"page_start":289,"meetingDate":["2023-12-07"],"gazette_id":"1129702","agenda_lcidc_ids":["1129702_00005"],"meet_name":"立法院第10屆第8會期司法及法制委員會第24次全體委員會議紀錄","content":"一、審查委員陳超明等22人擬具「立法院組織法第三十二條條文修正草案」案；二、併案審查\n(一)委員黃世杰等16人、(二)委員游毓蘭等17人及(三)委員黃世杰等16人分別擬具「司法人員人\n事條例部分條文修正草案」案；三、併案審查(一)委員劉建國等18人擬具「公教人員保險法第十\n二條條文修正草案」、(二)台灣民眾黨黨團及(三)委員邱志偉等17人分別擬具「公教人員保險法\n第三十六條條文修正草案」案","agenda_id":"1129702_00002"}},"transcript":{"id":"148913","pyannote":{"name":"ronny","tool":"pyannote","data":{"url":"https://ivod.ly.gov.tw/Play/Clip/1M/148913","tool":"pyannote","id":"148913-pyannote"},"job_id":"iQ3ykMTygE73G6au","queued_at":"2025-10-22 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00:01:21,772\n就不論是助理還是職員院內的所有的人我們希望找附近鄰近的運動中心成為特約合作然後提供這些人運動和補助有跟委員報告我們已經去洽請這個中正健康運動中心就在我們這個附近他說沒有問題啦我們可以跟他正式\n\n5\n00:01:22,432 --> 00:01:38,539\n不管是用合作社的方式或是立法院的名義來跟他簽一紙合約他會給我們這個員工的優待優待大概會是多少折他要請示這個簽了就知道當然是要盡量越低越好他們要照他們的員工價嗎\n\n6\n00:01:43,352 --> 00:02:00,176\n優惠價啦不能叫員工價優惠價那優惠價也要到實質啊口惠也要實質啊我們會盡量爭取啦但是他有一個問題就是說場館的部分像羽毛球啊乒乓球場館的部分還是要排隊沒有特權排隊喔排隊當然要排隊要登記那沒問題好謝謝\n\n7\n00:02:08,069 --> 00:02:25,663\n但是你知道秘書長這個除了立法院的人其實國會助理在工作上還有其他的困境2022年台灣大學有一篇學術論文叫國會助理工作壓力和離職傾向的研究\n\n8\n00:02:26,283 --> 00:02:52,069\n你知道就那份研究裡面啊他們調查就是我們國會助理職業工會在2017年的調查國會助理的平均年資是多久你知道嗎你說時間多久還是對啦他們平均年資了就現在立法院的助理你問他們每個這樣平均起來國會助理的平均年資是多久\n\n9\n00:02:57,426 --> 00:03:19,585\n為什麼要講這個?這個很重要你說一兩年喔?好國會助理是立委在國會問政的臂膀然後更是國家發展還有制度法規上的幕後推手那2017年的調查國會助理平均年資是兩年多那年資在四年以下的高達57.8%\n\n10\n00:03:23,328 --> 00:03:47,513\n你覺得這樣的年資是長還是短?這個當然是流動性太高了啦流動性太高沒錯一任四年啊所以他只有大概還做不到一半的四年一任都做不到的是57.8%所以國會助理在立法院服務年資過於短對國家發展長期以來必定有相當程度的不良影響\n\n11\n00:03:48,615 --> 00:04:03,813\n我們國會立委都說要資深制可是國會的助理更是資深制啊所以結果我們現在的現況是國會的助理是兩年兩年多所以由此可見這裡的工作環境和條件應該很差\n\n12\n00:04:05,308 --> 00:04:27,796\n這裡立法院的公眾環境條件應該很差啦差到大家都不想來這裡工作了所以這一篇論文要講的是討論國會助理個人的屬性職場的表現外在的因素跟工作壓力的相關性然後他要去分析的是國會助理工作壓力跟離職傾向之間的相關性那他除了做文獻\n\n13\n00:04:28,636 --> 00:04:44,242\n研究以外他做深度訪談那他訪談了16位現職立法院公費助理的對象然後他們發現幾個一個是受訪者普遍認為工作壓力跟離職傾向具有關聯\n\n14\n00:04:45,402 --> 00:05:07,375\n其中工作內容過於繁重這本來就是工作處理時效過短薪資過低職涯生涯沒有保障而且不穩定四年老闆換了他就要換工作職場上的人際關係等等都可能成為國會助理產生影響且離職傾向的工作壓力而進而產生離職\n\n15\n00:05:10,907 --> 00:05:23,640\n這都是工作繁重啊工作繁重跟報酬不成比例啊然後這一些都還跟他的工作不穩定還有相關一任立委四年而已\n\n16\n00:05:24,465 --> 00:05:44,420\n那第二個受訪者都表示應該盡速讓國會助理法制化使國會助理的權益被保障讓助理有完善的年資累積機制而且要設輔導教學機制還有心理輔導單位以保障國會助理的權益進而降低國會助理的離職率啊秘書長這樣有道理嗎\n\n17\n00:05:46,550 --> 00:06:10,112\n這樣是很有道理的很有道理的要怎麼做現在其實我也當立委也當伍介那我也是很希望就是幫這個國會助理來爭取能夠爭取健檢是最簡單的啦健檢補助是最簡單的因為我們現在國會助理就是\n\n18\n00:06:12,205 --> 00:06:24,845\n為什麼沒有辦法納入就是因為他的身份他沒有公務人員的身份我們現在在想就是要解決這件事啊所以這個問題就變成很棘手都會卡在這裡\n\n19\n00:06:25,816 --> 00:06:41,550\n公務人員身份的人不見得能夠勝任國會助理的工作和專業沒有錯但是因為他沒有這個身份所以很多的福利還有很多的那個保障啊等等就是沒有辦法適用在他身上所以我們是不是\n\n20\n00:06:42,731 --> 00:07:05,256\n想一個辦法大家去想一個辦法你去想一下啊跟那個考試院或什麼你要主動去討論一下啊一個助理的一個什麼考試制度或什麼讓這些助理有一個依據然後有一個累積才能夠使助理他能夠有點保障是這個可能\n\n21\n00:07:07,341 --> 00:07:24,127\n好啦你去想一下但是我想要再說說這個心理輔導機制啊我們這裡面有心理輔導的資源嗎立法院現況現況是有啦有什麼我們那個醫護室就有啦醫護室醫護室一個禮拜看幾點幾個小時\n\n22\n00:07:27,533 --> 00:07:48,187\n兩個小時啊經常有沒有經常請假醫護士很多醫生都經常常假請假我們要去看醫生都看不到了啦再來醫護士的看診沒有隱私性喔我們都開放空間不關門喔你心理輔導會到沒有關門的小小的大家護理師護理長大家都聽得到的地方去輔導嗎心理輔導這個領域事實上我們真的要\n\n23\n00:07:54,004 --> 00:08:05,962\n清理輔導這個領域我先跟你講勞動部你知道EAPS嗎EAPS就是EmployeeAssistanceProgram就是勞動部的定義的\n\n24\n00:08:07,492 --> 00:08:29,914\n之下就企業為了處理員工的健康心理或家庭問題透過早期的員工輔導然後去採取這個員工協助方案那透過服務系統的建置專業服務的提供去預防或解決個人工作表現的相關因素比如說工作適應啊人際關係啊家庭關係啊健康啊法律等等\n\n25\n00:08:30,720 --> 00:08:51,454\n所以這個EAPS包括要發現問題問題評估問題解決的系統然後依據這些需求和工作性質選擇適當的服務模式那我們立法院助理職員工加起來有多少人\n\n26\n00:08:53,271 --> 00:09:01,303\n我們現在的確這裡做的不夠,的確如此我們加起來多少人?我們算一個大企業,比大企業還要大企業我們請我\n\n27\n00:09:04,847 --> 00:09:11,210\n對阿請問我們什麼都沒有現在要說的是EAPS這個概念從僱主和受僱的勞工之間其實企業都會採取這樣的一個模式其實是留財久用然後也解決企業裡面這些受僱的員工他的問題事實上其實是很重要的\n\n28\n00:09:28,837 --> 00:09:54,607\n好謝謝委員那我在這裡分享一個台灣科技大學的他們的員工協助方案給你參考他們開放給教職員駐衛警校務基金約聘僱人員也給研究費向下的臨時專任助理用然後他們的心理諮詢是特約機構合作模式\n\n29\n00:09:55,807 --> 00:10:15,203\n特約機構請台師大的社區諮商中心的心理諮商所提供服務那服務對象我剛剛已經講了他連臨時人員都去了服務的方式是上晚填寫表單去店預約而且要做到身份保密而且要注重申請人的隱私\n\n30\n00:10:16,744 --> 00:10:33,457\n那他那個機構叫做心田心理諮商所然後他們去以前先提一個你講案來這裡談什麼是情緒困擾是壓力調適是生涯規劃是人際關係家庭關係為什麼講這個你知道吧你們最近很\n\n31\n00:10:34,520 --> 00:10:50,966\n你們有一個立法院公報處員工下跪陳情不滿主管標章化威脅考機打疑等這個主管他顯然有一些情緒失控的問題\n\n32\n00:10:52,199 --> 00:11:07,146\n然後這一個下跪的人他沒有別無他法了需要尋求體制外還到下跪了給你下跪了遞交陳情書了那他受到相當大的壓力考積達一等的壓力他也需要輔導\n\n33\n00:11:08,576 --> 00:11:32,227\n所以對其他的國會助理來講也需要心理輔導所以我在講說其實我們這個地方比起台科大比起其他的私人企業我們真的是相當的需要這個EAPS專案所以我們需要這個EAPS專案我們應該要盡速的來提供心理諮商的資源\n\n34\n00:11:34,028 --> 00:11:58,374\n因為這個壓力來源你知道像助理他只有老闆給他的壓力選舉的壓力他也有家庭的壓力老闆叫他要加班老闆現在選舉到了叫他要到南部去下鄉然後他家庭裡面不允許他這麼做壓力雙重快要崩潰了所以在這種狀況裡面有時候他可能就是需要一些輔導的機制或是一些輔導的資源進來\n\n35\n00:12:00,094 --> 00:12:09,219\n秘書長你自己也是眾管全院你一定可以理解到立法院的職場生活不論是這些助理或是職員工甚至是立委本人\n\n36\n00:12:10,782 --> 00:12:32,176\n每個人在不同的場域感受到壓力強弱都不同我們真的真的需要在立法院提供這樣的資源協助去提升助理或是職員工對個人心理健康的意識那也要積極的照顧這些助理和職員工的心理健康我想4500元照顧有形的肉體\n\n37\n00:12:33,277 --> 00:12:50,015\n但是心理上的壓力上的這也不亞於這4500元的健檢他可能還更急迫那我再講一個報道者的文章啊那個我先回應一下就這個我\n\n38\n00:12:51,144 --> 00:13:11,524\n有同感而且也感謝那個委員你提出了這樣子這麼好的一個一個方案人家邰哥他能夠做到我想我們應該也可以做到我們會來向他來這個協許然後我們會盡量的在最短時間內有一個這樣子的一個措施那明年度的預算\n\n39\n00:13:12,506 --> 00:13:32,424\n就就可以編列了如果你們三個月研議好了那大概會有多少需求我說你明年四月要編預算的時候啊那你現在年底了再有三個月讓你研議啊那看一下我們員工的需求啊那尋求專業需要的資源會預估是多少啊\n\n40\n00:13:33,464 --> 00:13:56,372\n應該就可以來編列編列預算所以也是可以在後年就開始了嗎因為他的確是需要資源挹注的確是需要經費預算那我們講這個是因為心理健康求助常態化是有助於降低自殺的認知的可能性那心理在台灣你要做一個好像重視心理健康的政策看起來好像是很前瞻很創舉\n\n41\n00:13:58,012 --> 00:14:14,099\n可是事實上在外國其實人家都很普遍的而且投入很大筆的經費和行動台大的公衛學院的健康行為和社區科學研究所的所長張書生就說到其實在英國他們健保就直接支持這張計畫\n\n42\n00:14:15,419 --> 00:14:39,262\n在澳洲心理健康是個政治議題所以他們從事政治人物的人都要提出心理健康的方案所以大家非常看重所謂的心理健康這個層次所以他就個人層次來講他也非常倡議說應該要普遍的去認同說只要有心理上的問題求助你要去求助可是求助這件事情是需要學習的\n\n43\n00:14:40,390 --> 00:14:55,240\n你突然說我有壓力但我不知道怎麼講出來他也不知道自己有壓力他甚至沒有意識到自己有壓力他沒有辦法去求助想要求助也不知道怎麼講也不知道怎麼表達所以在這種狀況裡面心理諮商不是說我們看電影裡面躺在床椅上諮商師跟你講話也不是只有這樣子而已\n\n44\n00:15:00,643 --> 00:15:11,275\n所以透過國家級的投入和補助讓求助常態化可以替代自殺常態化當然我們立法院對於心理輔導心理諮商這一塊還不是為了解決自殺這一塊\n\n45\n00:15:15,800 --> 00:15:40,681\n我們早期的介入輔導有設資源有設管道讓大家可以進去否則你看我們立法院公報處員工下跪陳情公報處的處長把國衛頻道的承辦職員叫到辦公室怒罵不斷的情緒怒罵然後還大罵髒話所有人都聽得到\n\n46\n00:15:41,562 --> 00:16:06,336\n然後威脅要給人家考試打一等這一些都已經失控了的確需要一些專業不只是職員工是助理也很多鬱悶啦不只是助理立委也有很多壓力啦所以我們期待明年度預算就可以編列立法院的EAPS就可以上路那員工協助方案\n\n47\n00:16:07,605 --> 00:16:15,927\n秘書長你承諾了那就是我們下個階段明年度要跟健保補助健檢預算一樣同時上路喔好謝謝\n\n","tsv":"start\tend\ttext\n2910\t4331\t我也是請教我們秘書長今天陳昌明委員的提案\n25640\t32527\t事實上我們上次質詢的時候就談過了對 等於是大家的共識所以我們趕快來做那兩年4500元健檢同一屆兩次費用可以合併使用可以吧可以採時報時銷\n44159\t56343\t那我還記得我還談到說我們希望鼓勵院內的同仁自主運動和健康促進我們總務處你們現在進度到哪裡我們請總務處報告一下總務處的人\n58973\t81772\t就不論是助理還是職員院內的所有的人我們希望找附近鄰近的運動中心成為特約合作然後提供這些人運動和補助有跟委員報告我們已經去洽請這個中正健康運動中心就在我們這個附近他說沒有問題啦我們可以跟他正式\n82432\t98539\t不管是用合作社的方式或是立法院的名義來跟他簽一紙合約他會給我們這個員工的優待優待大概會是多少折他要請示這個簽了就知道當然是要盡量越低越好他們要照他們的員工價嗎\n103352\t120176\t優惠價啦 不能叫員工價 優惠價那優惠價也要到實質啊 口惠也要實質啊我們會盡量爭取啦但是他有一個問題就是說場館的部分 像羽毛球啊 乒乓球場館的部分還是要排隊 沒有特權排隊喔 排隊當然要排隊要登記那沒問題 好 謝謝\n128069\t145663\t但是你知道秘書長這個除了立法院的人其實國會助理在工作上還有其他的困境2022年台灣大學有一篇學術論文叫國會助理工作壓力和離職傾向的研究\n146283\t172069\t你知道就那份研究裡面啊他們調查就是我們國會助理職業工會在2017年的調查國會助理的平均年資是多久你知道嗎你說時間多久還是對啦他們平均年資了就現在立法院的助理你問他們每個這樣平均起來國會助理的平均年資是多久\n177426\t199585\t為什麼要講這個?這個很重要你說一兩年喔?好國會助理是立委在國會問政的臂膀然後更是國家發展還有制度法規上的幕後推手那2017年的調查國會助理平均年資是兩年多那年資在四年以下的高達57.8%\n203328\t227513\t你覺得這樣的年資是長還是短?這個當然是流動性太高了啦流動性太高 沒錯一任四年啊所以他只有大概還做不到一半的四年一任都做不到的是57.8%所以國會助理在立法院服務年資過於短對國家發展長期以來必定有相當程度的不良影響\n228615\t243813\t我們國會立委都說要資深制 可是國會的助理更是資深制啊所以 結果我們現在的現況是國會的助理是兩年 兩年多所以由此可見這裡的工作環境和條件應該很差\n245308\t267796\t這裡立法院的公眾環境條件應該很差啦差到大家都不想來這裡工作了所以這一篇論文要講的是討論國會助理個人的屬性職場的表現 外在的因素跟工作壓力的相關性然後他要去分析的是國會助理工作壓力跟離職傾向之間的相關性那他除了做文獻\n268636\t284242\t研究以外他做深度訪談那他訪談了16位現職立法院公費助理的對象然後他們發現幾個一個是受訪者普遍認為工作壓力跟離職傾向具有關聯\n285402\t307375\t其中工作內容過於繁重這本來就是工作處理時效過短薪資過低職涯生涯沒有保障而且不穩定四年老闆換了他就要換工作職場上的人際關係等等都可能成為國會助理產生影響且離職傾向的工作壓力而進而產生離職\n310907\t323640\t這都是工作繁重啊工作繁重跟報酬不成比例啊然後這一些都還跟他的工作不穩定還有相關一任立委四年而已\n324465\t344420\t那第二個受訪者都表示應該盡速讓國會助理法制化使國會助理的權益被保障讓助理有完善的年資累積機制而且要設輔導教學機制還有心理輔導單位以保障國會助理的權益進而降低國會助理的離職率啊秘書長這樣有道理嗎\n346550\t370112\t這樣是很有道理的很有道理的要怎麼做現在其實我也當立委也當伍介那我也是很希望就是幫這個國會助理來爭取能夠爭取 健檢是最簡單的啦健檢補助是最簡單的因為我們現在國會助理就是\n372205\t384845\t為什麼沒有辦法納入就是因為他的身份他沒有公務人員的身份我們現在在想就是要解決這件事啊所以這個問題就變成很棘手都會卡在這裡\n385816\t401550\t公務人員身份的人不見得能夠勝任國會助理的工作和專業沒有錯但是因為他沒有這個身份所以很多的福利還有很多的那個保障啊等等就是沒有辦法適用在他身上所以我們是不是\n402731\t425256\t想一個辦法 大家去想一個辦法 你去想一下啊跟那個考試院或什麼 你要主動去討論一下啊一個助理的一個什麼考試制度或什麼 讓這些助理有一個依據然後有一個累積 才能夠使助理他能夠有點保障 是 這個可能\n427341\t444127\t好啦 你去想一下但是我想要再說說這個心理輔導機制啊我們這裡面有心理輔導的資源嗎 立法院現況現況是有啦有什麼我們那個醫護室就有啦醫護室醫護室一個禮拜看幾點 幾個小時\n447533\t468187\t兩個小時啊經常有沒有經常請假醫護士很多醫生都經常常假請假我們要去看醫生都看不到了啦再來醫護士的看診沒有隱私性喔我們都開放空間不關門喔你心理輔導會到沒有關門的小小的大家護理師護理長大家都聽得到的地方去輔導嗎心理輔導這個領域事實上我們真的要\n474004\t485962\t清理輔導這個領域我先跟你講勞動部你知道EAPS嗎EAPS就是Employee Assistance Program就是勞動部的定義的\n487492\t509914\t之下就企業為了處理員工的健康心理或家庭問題透過早期的員工輔導然後去採取這個員工協助方案那透過服務系統的建置專業服務的提供去預防或解決個人工作表現的相關因素比如說工作適應啊人際關係啊家庭關係啊健康啊法律等等\n510720\t531454\t所以這個EAPS 包括要發現問題 問題評估 問題解決的系統然後依據這些需求和工作性質 選擇適當的服務模式那我們立法院助理 職員工 加起來有多少人\n533271\t541303\t我們現在的確這裡做的不夠,的確如此我們加起來多少人?我們算一個大企業,比大企業還要大企業我們請我\n544847\t551210\t對阿 請問我們什麼都沒有現在要說的是EAPS這個概念從僱主和受僱的勞工之間其實企業都會採取這樣的一個模式其實是留財久用然後也解決企業裡面這些受僱的員工他的問題事實上其實是很重要的\n568837\t594607\t好 謝謝委員那我在這裡分享一個台灣科技大學的他們的員工協助方案給你參考他們開放給教職員 駐衛警 校務基金 約聘僱人員也給研究費向下的臨時專任助理用然後他們的心理諮詢是 特約機構合作模式\n595807\t615203\t特約機構請台師大的社區諮商中心的心理諮商所提供服務那服務對象我剛剛已經講了他連臨時人員都去了服務的方式是上晚填寫表單去店預約而且要做到身份保密而且要注重申請人的隱私\n616744\t633457\t那他那個機構叫做心田心理諮商所然後他們去以前先提一個你講案來這裡談什麼是情緒困擾是壓力調適是生涯規劃是人際關係家庭關係為什麼講這個你知道吧你們最近很\n634520\t650966\t你們有一個立法院公報處員工下跪陳情不滿主管標章化威脅考機打疑等這個主管他顯然有一些情緒失控的問題\n652199\t667146\t然後這一個下跪的人他沒有別無他法了需要尋求體制外還到下跪了給你下跪了遞交陳情書了那他受到相當大的壓力考積達一等的壓力他也需要輔導\n668576\t692227\t所以對其他的國會助理來講也需要心理輔導所以我在講說其實我們這個地方比起台科大比起其他的私人企業我們真的是相當的需要這個EAPS專案所以我們需要這個EAPS專案我們應該要盡速的來提供心理諮商的資源\n694028\t718374\t因為這個壓力來源 你知道像助理他只有老闆給他的壓力選舉的壓力 他也有家庭的壓力老闆叫他要加班 老闆現在選舉到了叫他要到南部去下鄉然後他家庭裡面不允許他這麼做壓力雙重 快要崩潰了所以在這種狀況裡面有時候他可能就是需要一些輔導的機制或是一些輔導的資源進來\n720094\t729219\t秘書長你自己也是眾管全院你一定可以理解到立法院的職場生活不論是這些助理或是職員工甚至是立委本人\n730782\t752176\t每個人在不同的場域感受到壓力強弱都不同我們真的真的需要在立法院提供這樣的資源協助去提升助理或是職員工對個人心理健康的意識那也要積極的照顧這些助理和職員工的心理健康我想4500元照顧有形的肉體\n753277\t770015\t但是心理上的壓力上的這也不亞於這4500元的健檢他可能還更急迫那我再講一個報道者的文章啊那個我先回應一下就這個我\n771144\t791524\t有同感而且也感謝那個委員你提出了這樣子這麼好的一個一個方案人家邰哥他能夠做到我想我們應該也可以做到我們會來向他來這個協許然後我們會盡量的在最短時間內有一個這樣子的一個措施那明年度的預算\n792506\t812424\t就就可以編列了如果你們三個月研議好了那大概會有多少需求我說你明年四月要編預算的時候啊那你現在年底了再有三個月讓你研議啊那看一下我們員工的需求啊那尋求專業需要的資源會預估是多少啊\n813464\t836372\t應該就可以來編列 編列預算所以也是可以在後年就開始了嗎因為他的確是需要資源挹注的確是需要經費預算那我們講這個是因為心理健康求助常態化是有助於降低自殺的認知的可能性那心理在台灣你要做一個好像重視心理健康的政策看起來好像是很前瞻很創舉\n838012\t854099\t可是事實上在外國其實人家都很普遍的而且投入很大筆的經費和行動台大的公衛學院的健康行為和社區科學研究所的所長張書生就說到其實在英國他們健保就直接支持這張計畫\n855419\t879262\t在澳洲心理健康是個政治議題所以他們從事政治人物的人都要提出心理健康的方案所以大家非常看重所謂的心理健康這個層次所以他就個人層次來講他也非常倡議說應該要普遍的去認同說只要有心理上的問題求助你要去求助可是求助這件事情是需要學習的\n880390\t895240\t你突然說我有壓力但我不知道怎麼講出來他也不知道自己有壓力他甚至沒有意識到自己有壓力他沒有辦法去求助想要求助也不知道怎麼講也不知道怎麼表達所以在這種狀況裡面心理諮商不是說我們看電影裡面躺在床椅上諮商師跟你講話也不是只有這樣子而已\n900643\t911275\t所以透過國家級的投入和補助讓求助常態化可以替代自殺常態化當然我們立法院對於心理輔導心理諮商這一塊還不是為了解決自殺這一塊\n915800\t940681\t我們早期的介入輔導有設資源有設管道讓大家可以進去否則你看我們立法院公報處員工下跪陳情公報處的處長把國衛頻道的承辦職員叫到辦公室怒罵不斷的情緒怒罵然後還大罵髒話所有人都聽得到\n941562\t966336\t然後威脅要給人家考試打一等這一些都已經失控了的確需要一些專業不只是職員工是助理也很多鬱悶啦不只是助理 立委也有很多壓力啦所以我們期待明年度預算就可以編列立法院的EAPS就可以上路那員工協助方案\n967605\t975927\t秘書長你承諾了那就是我們下個階段明年度要跟健保補助健檢預算一樣同時上路喔好 謝謝\n","txt":"我也是請教我們秘書長今天陳昌明委員的提案\n事實上我們上次質詢的時候就談過了對 等於是大家的共識所以我們趕快來做那兩年4500元健檢同一屆兩次費用可以合併使用可以吧可以採時報時銷\n那我還記得我還談到說我們希望鼓勵院內的同仁自主運動和健康促進我們總務處你們現在進度到哪裡我們請總務處報告一下總務處的人\n就不論是助理還是職員院內的所有的人我們希望找附近鄰近的運動中心成為特約合作然後提供這些人運動和補助有跟委員報告我們已經去洽請這個中正健康運動中心就在我們這個附近他說沒有問題啦我們可以跟他正式\n不管是用合作社的方式或是立法院的名義來跟他簽一紙合約他會給我們這個員工的優待優待大概會是多少折他要請示這個簽了就知道當然是要盡量越低越好他們要照他們的員工價嗎\n優惠價啦 不能叫員工價 優惠價那優惠價也要到實質啊 口惠也要實質啊我們會盡量爭取啦但是他有一個問題就是說場館的部分 像羽毛球啊 乒乓球場館的部分還是要排隊 沒有特權排隊喔 排隊當然要排隊要登記那沒問題 好 謝謝\n但是你知道秘書長這個除了立法院的人其實國會助理在工作上還有其他的困境2022年台灣大學有一篇學術論文叫國會助理工作壓力和離職傾向的研究\n你知道就那份研究裡面啊他們調查就是我們國會助理職業工會在2017年的調查國會助理的平均年資是多久你知道嗎你說時間多久還是對啦他們平均年資了就現在立法院的助理你問他們每個這樣平均起來國會助理的平均年資是多久\n為什麼要講這個?這個很重要你說一兩年喔?好國會助理是立委在國會問政的臂膀然後更是國家發展還有制度法規上的幕後推手那2017年的調查國會助理平均年資是兩年多那年資在四年以下的高達57.8%\n你覺得這樣的年資是長還是短?這個當然是流動性太高了啦流動性太高 沒錯一任四年啊所以他只有大概還做不到一半的四年一任都做不到的是57.8%所以國會助理在立法院服務年資過於短對國家發展長期以來必定有相當程度的不良影響\n我們國會立委都說要資深制 可是國會的助理更是資深制啊所以 結果我們現在的現況是國會的助理是兩年 兩年多所以由此可見這裡的工作環境和條件應該很差\n這裡立法院的公眾環境條件應該很差啦差到大家都不想來這裡工作了所以這一篇論文要講的是討論國會助理個人的屬性職場的表現 外在的因素跟工作壓力的相關性然後他要去分析的是國會助理工作壓力跟離職傾向之間的相關性那他除了做文獻\n研究以外他做深度訪談那他訪談了16位現職立法院公費助理的對象然後他們發現幾個一個是受訪者普遍認為工作壓力跟離職傾向具有關聯\n其中工作內容過於繁重這本來就是工作處理時效過短薪資過低職涯生涯沒有保障而且不穩定四年老闆換了他就要換工作職場上的人際關係等等都可能成為國會助理產生影響且離職傾向的工作壓力而進而產生離職\n這都是工作繁重啊工作繁重跟報酬不成比例啊然後這一些都還跟他的工作不穩定還有相關一任立委四年而已\n那第二個受訪者都表示應該盡速讓國會助理法制化使國會助理的權益被保障讓助理有完善的年資累積機制而且要設輔導教學機制還有心理輔導單位以保障國會助理的權益進而降低國會助理的離職率啊秘書長這樣有道理嗎\n這樣是很有道理的很有道理的要怎麼做現在其實我也當立委也當伍介那我也是很希望就是幫這個國會助理來爭取能夠爭取 健檢是最簡單的啦健檢補助是最簡單的因為我們現在國會助理就是\n為什麼沒有辦法納入就是因為他的身份他沒有公務人員的身份我們現在在想就是要解決這件事啊所以這個問題就變成很棘手都會卡在這裡\n公務人員身份的人不見得能夠勝任國會助理的工作和專業沒有錯但是因為他沒有這個身份所以很多的福利還有很多的那個保障啊等等就是沒有辦法適用在他身上所以我們是不是\n想一個辦法 大家去想一個辦法 你去想一下啊跟那個考試院或什麼 你要主動去討論一下啊一個助理的一個什麼考試制度或什麼 讓這些助理有一個依據然後有一個累積 才能夠使助理他能夠有點保障 是 這個可能\n好啦 你去想一下但是我想要再說說這個心理輔導機制啊我們這裡面有心理輔導的資源嗎 立法院現況現況是有啦有什麼我們那個醫護室就有啦醫護室醫護室一個禮拜看幾點 幾個小時\n兩個小時啊經常有沒有經常請假醫護士很多醫生都經常常假請假我們要去看醫生都看不到了啦再來醫護士的看診沒有隱私性喔我們都開放空間不關門喔你心理輔導會到沒有關門的小小的大家護理師護理長大家都聽得到的地方去輔導嗎心理輔導這個領域事實上我們真的要\n清理輔導這個領域我先跟你講勞動部你知道EAPS嗎EAPS就是Employee Assistance Program就是勞動部的定義的\n之下就企業為了處理員工的健康心理或家庭問題透過早期的員工輔導然後去採取這個員工協助方案那透過服務系統的建置專業服務的提供去預防或解決個人工作表現的相關因素比如說工作適應啊人際關係啊家庭關係啊健康啊法律等等\n所以這個EAPS 包括要發現問題 問題評估 問題解決的系統然後依據這些需求和工作性質 選擇適當的服務模式那我們立法院助理 職員工 加起來有多少人\n我們現在的確這裡做的不夠,的確如此我們加起來多少人?我們算一個大企業,比大企業還要大企業我們請我\n對阿 請問我們什麼都沒有現在要說的是EAPS這個概念從僱主和受僱的勞工之間其實企業都會採取這樣的一個模式其實是留財久用然後也解決企業裡面這些受僱的員工他的問題事實上其實是很重要的\n好 謝謝委員那我在這裡分享一個台灣科技大學的他們的員工協助方案給你參考他們開放給教職員 駐衛警 校務基金 約聘僱人員也給研究費向下的臨時專任助理用然後他們的心理諮詢是 特約機構合作模式\n特約機構請台師大的社區諮商中心的心理諮商所提供服務那服務對象我剛剛已經講了他連臨時人員都去了服務的方式是上晚填寫表單去店預約而且要做到身份保密而且要注重申請人的隱私\n那他那個機構叫做心田心理諮商所然後他們去以前先提一個你講案來這裡談什麼是情緒困擾是壓力調適是生涯規劃是人際關係家庭關係為什麼講這個你知道吧你們最近很\n你們有一個立法院公報處員工下跪陳情不滿主管標章化威脅考機打疑等這個主管他顯然有一些情緒失控的問題\n然後這一個下跪的人他沒有別無他法了需要尋求體制外還到下跪了給你下跪了遞交陳情書了那他受到相當大的壓力考積達一等的壓力他也需要輔導\n所以對其他的國會助理來講也需要心理輔導所以我在講說其實我們這個地方比起台科大比起其他的私人企業我們真的是相當的需要這個EAPS專案所以我們需要這個EAPS專案我們應該要盡速的來提供心理諮商的資源\n因為這個壓力來源 你知道像助理他只有老闆給他的壓力選舉的壓力 他也有家庭的壓力老闆叫他要加班 老闆現在選舉到了叫他要到南部去下鄉然後他家庭裡面不允許他這麼做壓力雙重 快要崩潰了所以在這種狀況裡面有時候他可能就是需要一些輔導的機制或是一些輔導的資源進來\n秘書長你自己也是眾管全院你一定可以理解到立法院的職場生活不論是這些助理或是職員工甚至是立委本人\n每個人在不同的場域感受到壓力強弱都不同我們真的真的需要在立法院提供這樣的資源協助去提升助理或是職員工對個人心理健康的意識那也要積極的照顧這些助理和職員工的心理健康我想4500元照顧有形的肉體\n但是心理上的壓力上的這也不亞於這4500元的健檢他可能還更急迫那我再講一個報道者的文章啊那個我先回應一下就這個我\n有同感而且也感謝那個委員你提出了這樣子這麼好的一個一個方案人家邰哥他能夠做到我想我們應該也可以做到我們會來向他來這個協許然後我們會盡量的在最短時間內有一個這樣子的一個措施那明年度的預算\n就就可以編列了如果你們三個月研議好了那大概會有多少需求我說你明年四月要編預算的時候啊那你現在年底了再有三個月讓你研議啊那看一下我們員工的需求啊那尋求專業需要的資源會預估是多少啊\n應該就可以來編列 編列預算所以也是可以在後年就開始了嗎因為他的確是需要資源挹注的確是需要經費預算那我們講這個是因為心理健康求助常態化是有助於降低自殺的認知的可能性那心理在台灣你要做一個好像重視心理健康的政策看起來好像是很前瞻很創舉\n可是事實上在外國其實人家都很普遍的而且投入很大筆的經費和行動台大的公衛學院的健康行為和社區科學研究所的所長張書生就說到其實在英國他們健保就直接支持這張計畫\n在澳洲心理健康是個政治議題所以他們從事政治人物的人都要提出心理健康的方案所以大家非常看重所謂的心理健康這個層次所以他就個人層次來講他也非常倡議說應該要普遍的去認同說只要有心理上的問題求助你要去求助可是求助這件事情是需要學習的\n你突然說我有壓力但我不知道怎麼講出來他也不知道自己有壓力他甚至沒有意識到自己有壓力他沒有辦法去求助想要求助也不知道怎麼講也不知道怎麼表達所以在這種狀況裡面心理諮商不是說我們看電影裡面躺在床椅上諮商師跟你講話也不是只有這樣子而已\n所以透過國家級的投入和補助讓求助常態化可以替代自殺常態化當然我們立法院對於心理輔導心理諮商這一塊還不是為了解決自殺這一塊\n我們早期的介入輔導有設資源有設管道讓大家可以進去否則你看我們立法院公報處員工下跪陳情公報處的處長把國衛頻道的承辦職員叫到辦公室怒罵不斷的情緒怒罵然後還大罵髒話所有人都聽得到\n然後威脅要給人家考試打一等這一些都已經失控了的確需要一些專業不只是職員工是助理也很多鬱悶啦不只是助理 立委也有很多壓力啦所以我們期待明年度預算就可以編列立法院的EAPS就可以上路那員工協助方案\n秘書長你承諾了那就是我們下個階段明年度要跟健保補助健檢預算一樣同時上路喔好 謝謝\n","vtt":"WEBVTT\n\n00:02.910 --> 00:04.331\n我也是請教我們秘書長今天陳昌明委員的提案\n\n00:25.640 --> 00:32.527\n事實上我們上次質詢的時候就談過了對等於是大家的共識所以我們趕快來做那兩年4500元健檢同一屆兩次費用可以合併使用可以吧可以採時報時銷\n\n00:44.159 --> 00:56.343\n那我還記得我還談到說我們希望鼓勵院內的同仁自主運動和健康促進我們總務處你們現在進度到哪裡我們請總務處報告一下總務處的人\n\n00:58.973 --> 01:21.772\n就不論是助理還是職員院內的所有的人我們希望找附近鄰近的運動中心成為特約合作然後提供這些人運動和補助有跟委員報告我們已經去洽請這個中正健康運動中心就在我們這個附近他說沒有問題啦我們可以跟他正式\n\n01:22.432 --> 01:38.539\n不管是用合作社的方式或是立法院的名義來跟他簽一紙合約他會給我們這個員工的優待優待大概會是多少折他要請示這個簽了就知道當然是要盡量越低越好他們要照他們的員工價嗎\n\n01:43.352 --> 02:00.176\n優惠價啦不能叫員工價優惠價那優惠價也要到實質啊口惠也要實質啊我們會盡量爭取啦但是他有一個問題就是說場館的部分像羽毛球啊乒乓球場館的部分還是要排隊沒有特權排隊喔排隊當然要排隊要登記那沒問題好謝謝\n\n02:08.069 --> 02:25.663\n但是你知道秘書長這個除了立法院的人其實國會助理在工作上還有其他的困境2022年台灣大學有一篇學術論文叫國會助理工作壓力和離職傾向的研究\n\n02:26.283 --> 02:52.069\n你知道就那份研究裡面啊他們調查就是我們國會助理職業工會在2017年的調查國會助理的平均年資是多久你知道嗎你說時間多久還是對啦他們平均年資了就現在立法院的助理你問他們每個這樣平均起來國會助理的平均年資是多久\n\n02:57.426 --> 03:19.585\n為什麼要講這個?這個很重要你說一兩年喔?好國會助理是立委在國會問政的臂膀然後更是國家發展還有制度法規上的幕後推手那2017年的調查國會助理平均年資是兩年多那年資在四年以下的高達57.8%\n\n03:23.328 --> 03:47.513\n你覺得這樣的年資是長還是短?這個當然是流動性太高了啦流動性太高沒錯一任四年啊所以他只有大概還做不到一半的四年一任都做不到的是57.8%所以國會助理在立法院服務年資過於短對國家發展長期以來必定有相當程度的不良影響\n\n03:48.615 --> 04:03.813\n我們國會立委都說要資深制可是國會的助理更是資深制啊所以結果我們現在的現況是國會的助理是兩年兩年多所以由此可見這裡的工作環境和條件應該很差\n\n04:05.308 --> 04:27.796\n這裡立法院的公眾環境條件應該很差啦差到大家都不想來這裡工作了所以這一篇論文要講的是討論國會助理個人的屬性職場的表現外在的因素跟工作壓力的相關性然後他要去分析的是國會助理工作壓力跟離職傾向之間的相關性那他除了做文獻\n\n04:28.636 --> 04:44.242\n研究以外他做深度訪談那他訪談了16位現職立法院公費助理的對象然後他們發現幾個一個是受訪者普遍認為工作壓力跟離職傾向具有關聯\n\n04:45.402 --> 05:07.375\n其中工作內容過於繁重這本來就是工作處理時效過短薪資過低職涯生涯沒有保障而且不穩定四年老闆換了他就要換工作職場上的人際關係等等都可能成為國會助理產生影響且離職傾向的工作壓力而進而產生離職\n\n05:10.907 --> 05:23.640\n這都是工作繁重啊工作繁重跟報酬不成比例啊然後這一些都還跟他的工作不穩定還有相關一任立委四年而已\n\n05:24.465 --> 05:44.420\n那第二個受訪者都表示應該盡速讓國會助理法制化使國會助理的權益被保障讓助理有完善的年資累積機制而且要設輔導教學機制還有心理輔導單位以保障國會助理的權益進而降低國會助理的離職率啊秘書長這樣有道理嗎\n\n05:46.550 --> 06:10.112\n這樣是很有道理的很有道理的要怎麼做現在其實我也當立委也當伍介那我也是很希望就是幫這個國會助理來爭取能夠爭取健檢是最簡單的啦健檢補助是最簡單的因為我們現在國會助理就是\n\n06:12.205 --> 06:24.845\n為什麼沒有辦法納入就是因為他的身份他沒有公務人員的身份我們現在在想就是要解決這件事啊所以這個問題就變成很棘手都會卡在這裡\n\n06:25.816 --> 06:41.550\n公務人員身份的人不見得能夠勝任國會助理的工作和專業沒有錯但是因為他沒有這個身份所以很多的福利還有很多的那個保障啊等等就是沒有辦法適用在他身上所以我們是不是\n\n06:42.731 --> 07:05.256\n想一個辦法大家去想一個辦法你去想一下啊跟那個考試院或什麼你要主動去討論一下啊一個助理的一個什麼考試制度或什麼讓這些助理有一個依據然後有一個累積才能夠使助理他能夠有點保障是這個可能\n\n07:07.341 --> 07:24.127\n好啦你去想一下但是我想要再說說這個心理輔導機制啊我們這裡面有心理輔導的資源嗎立法院現況現況是有啦有什麼我們那個醫護室就有啦醫護室醫護室一個禮拜看幾點幾個小時\n\n07:27.533 --> 07:48.187\n兩個小時啊經常有沒有經常請假醫護士很多醫生都經常常假請假我們要去看醫生都看不到了啦再來醫護士的看診沒有隱私性喔我們都開放空間不關門喔你心理輔導會到沒有關門的小小的大家護理師護理長大家都聽得到的地方去輔導嗎心理輔導這個領域事實上我們真的要\n\n07:54.004 --> 08:05.962\n清理輔導這個領域我先跟你講勞動部你知道EAPS嗎EAPS就是EmployeeAssistanceProgram就是勞動部的定義的\n\n08:07.492 --> 08:29.914\n之下就企業為了處理員工的健康心理或家庭問題透過早期的員工輔導然後去採取這個員工協助方案那透過服務系統的建置專業服務的提供去預防或解決個人工作表現的相關因素比如說工作適應啊人際關係啊家庭關係啊健康啊法律等等\n\n08:30.720 --> 08:51.454\n所以這個EAPS包括要發現問題問題評估問題解決的系統然後依據這些需求和工作性質選擇適當的服務模式那我們立法院助理職員工加起來有多少人\n\n08:53.271 --> 09:01.303\n我們現在的確這裡做的不夠,的確如此我們加起來多少人?我們算一個大企業,比大企業還要大企業我們請我\n\n09:04.847 --> 09:11.210\n對阿請問我們什麼都沒有現在要說的是EAPS這個概念從僱主和受僱的勞工之間其實企業都會採取這樣的一個模式其實是留財久用然後也解決企業裡面這些受僱的員工他的問題事實上其實是很重要的\n\n09:28.837 --> 09:54.607\n好謝謝委員那我在這裡分享一個台灣科技大學的他們的員工協助方案給你參考他們開放給教職員駐衛警校務基金約聘僱人員也給研究費向下的臨時專任助理用然後他們的心理諮詢是特約機構合作模式\n\n09:55.807 --> 10:15.203\n特約機構請台師大的社區諮商中心的心理諮商所提供服務那服務對象我剛剛已經講了他連臨時人員都去了服務的方式是上晚填寫表單去店預約而且要做到身份保密而且要注重申請人的隱私\n\n10:16.744 --> 10:33.457\n那他那個機構叫做心田心理諮商所然後他們去以前先提一個你講案來這裡談什麼是情緒困擾是壓力調適是生涯規劃是人際關係家庭關係為什麼講這個你知道吧你們最近很\n\n10:34.520 --> 10:50.966\n你們有一個立法院公報處員工下跪陳情不滿主管標章化威脅考機打疑等這個主管他顯然有一些情緒失控的問題\n\n10:52.199 --> 11:07.146\n然後這一個下跪的人他沒有別無他法了需要尋求體制外還到下跪了給你下跪了遞交陳情書了那他受到相當大的壓力考積達一等的壓力他也需要輔導\n\n11:08.576 --> 11:32.227\n所以對其他的國會助理來講也需要心理輔導所以我在講說其實我們這個地方比起台科大比起其他的私人企業我們真的是相當的需要這個EAPS專案所以我們需要這個EAPS專案我們應該要盡速的來提供心理諮商的資源\n\n11:34.028 --> 11:58.374\n因為這個壓力來源你知道像助理他只有老闆給他的壓力選舉的壓力他也有家庭的壓力老闆叫他要加班老闆現在選舉到了叫他要到南部去下鄉然後他家庭裡面不允許他這麼做壓力雙重快要崩潰了所以在這種狀況裡面有時候他可能就是需要一些輔導的機制或是一些輔導的資源進來\n\n12:00.094 --> 12:09.219\n秘書長你自己也是眾管全院你一定可以理解到立法院的職場生活不論是這些助理或是職員工甚至是立委本人\n\n12:10.782 --> 12:32.176\n每個人在不同的場域感受到壓力強弱都不同我們真的真的需要在立法院提供這樣的資源協助去提升助理或是職員工對個人心理健康的意識那也要積極的照顧這些助理和職員工的心理健康我想4500元照顧有形的肉體\n\n12:33.277 --> 12:50.015\n但是心理上的壓力上的這也不亞於這4500元的健檢他可能還更急迫那我再講一個報道者的文章啊那個我先回應一下就這個我\n\n12:51.144 --> 13:11.524\n有同感而且也感謝那個委員你提出了這樣子這麼好的一個一個方案人家邰哥他能夠做到我想我們應該也可以做到我們會來向他來這個協許然後我們會盡量的在最短時間內有一個這樣子的一個措施那明年度的預算\n\n13:12.506 --> 13:32.424\n就就可以編列了如果你們三個月研議好了那大概會有多少需求我說你明年四月要編預算的時候啊那你現在年底了再有三個月讓你研議啊那看一下我們員工的需求啊那尋求專業需要的資源會預估是多少啊\n\n13:33.464 --> 13:56.372\n應該就可以來編列編列預算所以也是可以在後年就開始了嗎因為他的確是需要資源挹注的確是需要經費預算那我們講這個是因為心理健康求助常態化是有助於降低自殺的認知的可能性那心理在台灣你要做一個好像重視心理健康的政策看起來好像是很前瞻很創舉\n\n13:58.012 --> 14:14.099\n可是事實上在外國其實人家都很普遍的而且投入很大筆的經費和行動台大的公衛學院的健康行為和社區科學研究所的所長張書生就說到其實在英國他們健保就直接支持這張計畫\n\n14:15.419 --> 14:39.262\n在澳洲心理健康是個政治議題所以他們從事政治人物的人都要提出心理健康的方案所以大家非常看重所謂的心理健康這個層次所以他就個人層次來講他也非常倡議說應該要普遍的去認同說只要有心理上的問題求助你要去求助可是求助這件事情是需要學習的\n\n14:40.390 --> 14:55.240\n你突然說我有壓力但我不知道怎麼講出來他也不知道自己有壓力他甚至沒有意識到自己有壓力他沒有辦法去求助想要求助也不知道怎麼講也不知道怎麼表達所以在這種狀況裡面心理諮商不是說我們看電影裡面躺在床椅上諮商師跟你講話也不是只有這樣子而已\n\n15:00.643 --> 15:11.275\n所以透過國家級的投入和補助讓求助常態化可以替代自殺常態化當然我們立法院對於心理輔導心理諮商這一塊還不是為了解決自殺這一塊\n\n15:15.800 --> 15:40.681\n我們早期的介入輔導有設資源有設管道讓大家可以進去否則你看我們立法院公報處員工下跪陳情公報處的處長把國衛頻道的承辦職員叫到辦公室怒罵不斷的情緒怒罵然後還大罵髒話所有人都聽得到\n\n15:41.562 --> 16:06.336\n然後威脅要給人家考試打一等這一些都已經失控了的確需要一些專業不只是職員工是助理也很多鬱悶啦不只是助理立委也有很多壓力啦所以我們期待明年度預算就可以編列立法院的EAPS就可以上路那員工協助方案\n\n16:07.605 --> 16:15.927\n秘書長你承諾了那就是我們下個階段明年度要跟健保補助健檢預算一樣同時上路喔好謝謝\n\n","segments":[{"start":2.91,"end":4.331,"text":"我也是請教我們秘書長今天陳昌明委員的提案"},{"start":25.64,"end":32.527,"text":"事實上我們上次質詢的時候就談過了對 等於是大家的共識所以我們趕快來做那兩年4500元健檢同一屆兩次費用可以合併使用可以吧可以採時報時銷"},{"start":44.159,"end":56.343,"text":"那我還記得我還談到說我們希望鼓勵院內的同仁自主運動和健康促進我們總務處你們現在進度到哪裡我們請總務處報告一下總務處的人"},{"start":58.973,"end":81.772,"text":"就不論是助理還是職員院內的所有的人我們希望找附近鄰近的運動中心成為特約合作然後提供這些人運動和補助有跟委員報告我們已經去洽請這個中正健康運動中心就在我們這個附近他說沒有問題啦我們可以跟他正式"},{"start":82.432,"end":98.539,"text":"不管是用合作社的方式或是立法院的名義來跟他簽一紙合約他會給我們這個員工的優待優待大概會是多少折他要請示這個簽了就知道當然是要盡量越低越好他們要照他們的員工價嗎"},{"start":103.352,"end":120.176,"text":"優惠價啦 不能叫員工價 優惠價那優惠價也要到實質啊 口惠也要實質啊我們會盡量爭取啦但是他有一個問題就是說場館的部分 像羽毛球啊 乒乓球場館的部分還是要排隊 沒有特權排隊喔 排隊當然要排隊要登記那沒問題 好 謝謝"},{"start":128.069,"end":145.663,"text":"但是你知道秘書長這個除了立法院的人其實國會助理在工作上還有其他的困境2022年台灣大學有一篇學術論文叫國會助理工作壓力和離職傾向的研究"},{"start":146.283,"end":172.069,"text":"你知道就那份研究裡面啊他們調查就是我們國會助理職業工會在2017年的調查國會助理的平均年資是多久你知道嗎你說時間多久還是對啦他們平均年資了就現在立法院的助理你問他們每個這樣平均起來國會助理的平均年資是多久"},{"start":177.426,"end":199.585,"text":"為什麼要講這個?這個很重要你說一兩年喔?好國會助理是立委在國會問政的臂膀然後更是國家發展還有制度法規上的幕後推手那2017年的調查國會助理平均年資是兩年多那年資在四年以下的高達57.8%"},{"start":203.328,"end":227.513,"text":"你覺得這樣的年資是長還是短?這個當然是流動性太高了啦流動性太高 沒錯一任四年啊所以他只有大概還做不到一半的四年一任都做不到的是57.8%所以國會助理在立法院服務年資過於短對國家發展長期以來必定有相當程度的不良影響"},{"start":228.615,"end":243.813,"text":"我們國會立委都說要資深制 可是國會的助理更是資深制啊所以 結果我們現在的現況是國會的助理是兩年 兩年多所以由此可見這裡的工作環境和條件應該很差"},{"start":245.308,"end":267.796,"text":"這裡立法院的公眾環境條件應該很差啦差到大家都不想來這裡工作了所以這一篇論文要講的是討論國會助理個人的屬性職場的表現 外在的因素跟工作壓力的相關性然後他要去分析的是國會助理工作壓力跟離職傾向之間的相關性那他除了做文獻"},{"start":268.636,"end":284.242,"text":"研究以外他做深度訪談那他訪談了16位現職立法院公費助理的對象然後他們發現幾個一個是受訪者普遍認為工作壓力跟離職傾向具有關聯"},{"start":285.402,"end":307.375,"text":"其中工作內容過於繁重這本來就是工作處理時效過短薪資過低職涯生涯沒有保障而且不穩定四年老闆換了他就要換工作職場上的人際關係等等都可能成為國會助理產生影響且離職傾向的工作壓力而進而產生離職"},{"start":310.907,"end":323.64,"text":"這都是工作繁重啊工作繁重跟報酬不成比例啊然後這一些都還跟他的工作不穩定還有相關一任立委四年而已"},{"start":324.465,"end":344.42,"text":"那第二個受訪者都表示應該盡速讓國會助理法制化使國會助理的權益被保障讓助理有完善的年資累積機制而且要設輔導教學機制還有心理輔導單位以保障國會助理的權益進而降低國會助理的離職率啊秘書長這樣有道理嗎"},{"start":346.55,"end":370.112,"text":"這樣是很有道理的很有道理的要怎麼做現在其實我也當立委也當伍介那我也是很希望就是幫這個國會助理來爭取能夠爭取 健檢是最簡單的啦健檢補助是最簡單的因為我們現在國會助理就是"},{"start":372.205,"end":384.845,"text":"為什麼沒有辦法納入就是因為他的身份他沒有公務人員的身份我們現在在想就是要解決這件事啊所以這個問題就變成很棘手都會卡在這裡"},{"start":385.816,"end":401.55,"text":"公務人員身份的人不見得能夠勝任國會助理的工作和專業沒有錯但是因為他沒有這個身份所以很多的福利還有很多的那個保障啊等等就是沒有辦法適用在他身上所以我們是不是"},{"start":402.731,"end":425.256,"text":"想一個辦法 大家去想一個辦法 你去想一下啊跟那個考試院或什麼 你要主動去討論一下啊一個助理的一個什麼考試制度或什麼 讓這些助理有一個依據然後有一個累積 才能夠使助理他能夠有點保障 是 這個可能"},{"start":427.341,"end":444.127,"text":"好啦 你去想一下但是我想要再說說這個心理輔導機制啊我們這裡面有心理輔導的資源嗎 立法院現況現況是有啦有什麼我們那個醫護室就有啦醫護室醫護室一個禮拜看幾點 幾個小時"},{"start":447.533,"end":468.187,"text":"兩個小時啊經常有沒有經常請假醫護士很多醫生都經常常假請假我們要去看醫生都看不到了啦再來醫護士的看診沒有隱私性喔我們都開放空間不關門喔你心理輔導會到沒有關門的小小的大家護理師護理長大家都聽得到的地方去輔導嗎心理輔導這個領域事實上我們真的要"},{"start":474.004,"end":485.962,"text":"清理輔導這個領域我先跟你講勞動部你知道EAPS嗎EAPS就是Employee Assistance Program就是勞動部的定義的"},{"start":487.492,"end":509.914,"text":"之下就企業為了處理員工的健康心理或家庭問題透過早期的員工輔導然後去採取這個員工協助方案那透過服務系統的建置專業服務的提供去預防或解決個人工作表現的相關因素比如說工作適應啊人際關係啊家庭關係啊健康啊法律等等"},{"start":510.72,"end":531.454,"text":"所以這個EAPS 包括要發現問題 問題評估 問題解決的系統然後依據這些需求和工作性質 選擇適當的服務模式那我們立法院助理 職員工 加起來有多少人"},{"start":533.271,"end":541.303,"text":"我們現在的確這裡做的不夠,的確如此我們加起來多少人?我們算一個大企業,比大企業還要大企業我們請我"},{"start":544.847,"end":551.21,"text":"對阿 請問我們什麼都沒有現在要說的是EAPS這個概念從僱主和受僱的勞工之間其實企業都會採取這樣的一個模式其實是留財久用然後也解決企業裡面這些受僱的員工他的問題事實上其實是很重要的"},{"start":568.837,"end":594.607,"text":"好 謝謝委員那我在這裡分享一個台灣科技大學的他們的員工協助方案給你參考他們開放給教職員 駐衛警 校務基金 約聘僱人員也給研究費向下的臨時專任助理用然後他們的心理諮詢是 特約機構合作模式"},{"start":595.807,"end":615.203,"text":"特約機構請台師大的社區諮商中心的心理諮商所提供服務那服務對象我剛剛已經講了他連臨時人員都去了服務的方式是上晚填寫表單去店預約而且要做到身份保密而且要注重申請人的隱私"},{"start":616.744,"end":633.457,"text":"那他那個機構叫做心田心理諮商所然後他們去以前先提一個你講案來這裡談什麼是情緒困擾是壓力調適是生涯規劃是人際關係家庭關係為什麼講這個你知道吧你們最近很"},{"start":634.52,"end":650.966,"text":"你們有一個立法院公報處員工下跪陳情不滿主管標章化威脅考機打疑等這個主管他顯然有一些情緒失控的問題"},{"start":652.199,"end":667.146,"text":"然後這一個下跪的人他沒有別無他法了需要尋求體制外還到下跪了給你下跪了遞交陳情書了那他受到相當大的壓力考積達一等的壓力他也需要輔導"},{"start":668.576,"end":692.227,"text":"所以對其他的國會助理來講也需要心理輔導所以我在講說其實我們這個地方比起台科大比起其他的私人企業我們真的是相當的需要這個EAPS專案所以我們需要這個EAPS專案我們應該要盡速的來提供心理諮商的資源"},{"start":694.028,"end":718.374,"text":"因為這個壓力來源 你知道像助理他只有老闆給他的壓力選舉的壓力 他也有家庭的壓力老闆叫他要加班 老闆現在選舉到了叫他要到南部去下鄉然後他家庭裡面不允許他這麼做壓力雙重 快要崩潰了所以在這種狀況裡面有時候他可能就是需要一些輔導的機制或是一些輔導的資源進來"},{"start":720.094,"end":729.219,"text":"秘書長你自己也是眾管全院你一定可以理解到立法院的職場生活不論是這些助理或是職員工甚至是立委本人"},{"start":730.782,"end":752.176,"text":"每個人在不同的場域感受到壓力強弱都不同我們真的真的需要在立法院提供這樣的資源協助去提升助理或是職員工對個人心理健康的意識那也要積極的照顧這些助理和職員工的心理健康我想4500元照顧有形的肉體"},{"start":753.277,"end":770.015,"text":"但是心理上的壓力上的這也不亞於這4500元的健檢他可能還更急迫那我再講一個報道者的文章啊那個我先回應一下就這個我"},{"start":771.144,"end":791.524,"text":"有同感而且也感謝那個委員你提出了這樣子這麼好的一個一個方案人家邰哥他能夠做到我想我們應該也可以做到我們會來向他來這個協許然後我們會盡量的在最短時間內有一個這樣子的一個措施那明年度的預算"},{"start":792.506,"end":812.424,"text":"就就可以編列了如果你們三個月研議好了那大概會有多少需求我說你明年四月要編預算的時候啊那你現在年底了再有三個月讓你研議啊那看一下我們員工的需求啊那尋求專業需要的資源會預估是多少啊"},{"start":813.464,"end":836.372,"text":"應該就可以來編列 編列預算所以也是可以在後年就開始了嗎因為他的確是需要資源挹注的確是需要經費預算那我們講這個是因為心理健康求助常態化是有助於降低自殺的認知的可能性那心理在台灣你要做一個好像重視心理健康的政策看起來好像是很前瞻很創舉"},{"start":838.012,"end":854.099,"text":"可是事實上在外國其實人家都很普遍的而且投入很大筆的經費和行動台大的公衛學院的健康行為和社區科學研究所的所長張書生就說到其實在英國他們健保就直接支持這張計畫"},{"start":855.419,"end":879.262,"text":"在澳洲心理健康是個政治議題所以他們從事政治人物的人都要提出心理健康的方案所以大家非常看重所謂的心理健康這個層次所以他就個人層次來講他也非常倡議說應該要普遍的去認同說只要有心理上的問題求助你要去求助可是求助這件事情是需要學習的"},{"start":880.39,"end":895.24,"text":"你突然說我有壓力但我不知道怎麼講出來他也不知道自己有壓力他甚至沒有意識到自己有壓力他沒有辦法去求助想要求助也不知道怎麼講也不知道怎麼表達所以在這種狀況裡面心理諮商不是說我們看電影裡面躺在床椅上諮商師跟你講話也不是只有這樣子而已"},{"start":900.643,"end":911.275,"text":"所以透過國家級的投入和補助讓求助常態化可以替代自殺常態化當然我們立法院對於心理輔導心理諮商這一塊還不是為了解決自殺這一塊"},{"start":915.8,"end":940.681,"text":"我們早期的介入輔導有設資源有設管道讓大家可以進去否則你看我們立法院公報處員工下跪陳情公報處的處長把國衛頻道的承辦職員叫到辦公室怒罵不斷的情緒怒罵然後還大罵髒話所有人都聽得到"},{"start":941.562,"end":966.336,"text":"然後威脅要給人家考試打一等這一些都已經失控了的確需要一些專業不只是職員工是助理也很多鬱悶啦不只是助理 立委也有很多壓力啦所以我們期待明年度預算就可以編列立法院的EAPS就可以上路那員工協助方案"},{"start":967.605,"end":975.927,"text":"秘書長你承諾了那就是我們下個階段明年度要跟健保補助健檢預算一樣同時上路喔好 謝謝"}]}}}}