{"id":148941,"url":"https://ivod.ly.gov.tw/Play/Clip/1M/148941","video_url":"https://ivod-lyvod.cdn.hinet.net/vod_1/_definst_/mp4:1MClips/a0ee4ec253a7202926a2233bf09aa235bdc0b11ed89c5ff9c986728e607a03228a83d6b4086f51895ea18f28b6918d91.mp4/playlist.m3u8","委員名稱":"吳秉叡","委員發言時間":"09:28:03 - 09:39:17","影片長度":"00:11:14","會議時間":"2023-12-11T09:00:00+08:00","會議名稱":"立法院第10屆第8會期財政委員會第20次全體委員會議（事由：一、邀請金融監督管理委員會黃主任委員天牧就（一）「開放銀行」（Open Banking）政策之回顧與展望（二）純網銀、純網保之發展與挑戰進行專題報告，並備質詢。\n二、審查本院民進黨黨團擬具「中央政府總預算案審查程序第三條條文修正草案」案。\n【12月11日及13日二天一次會】）","meet":{"tmpMeeting":null,"title":"第10屆第8會期財政委員會第20次全體委員會議","term":10,"type":"委員會","sessionPeriod":8,"sessionTimes":20,"committees":[20],"id":"委員會-10-8-20-20"},"date":"2023-12-11","duration":674,"end_time":"2023-12-11T09:39:17+08:00","start_time":"2023-12-11T09:28:03+08:00","features":["gazette"],"type":"Clip","gazette":{"lineno":139,"blocks":[["吳委員秉叡：（9時28分）主席，麻煩請金管會黃主委。"],["主席：請黃主委上台備詢。"],["黃主任委員天牧：是，委員早。"],["吳委員秉叡：主委早。我今天看到幾個問題想要跟你請教，就是今天有媒體報導說中國介選的可能性很高，加上大量的資訊，可能最後都會氾濫，其中介選有一個工具，它認為是虛擬貨幣，要求國安跟檢調單位要盯緊虛擬貨幣的交易。虛擬貨幣這個東西當然是隨著科技的發展、發達，然後好像很多人就會去接受新的東西，可是它衍生的弊端也實在是非常的多，像這個又變成一個……簡單來講，也是另外一種洗錢嘛！他不能夠透過人民幣支付、不能夠透過這樣換匯的支付，他就用虛擬貨幣來支付，也達到他要支付的目的啊！所以這個問題不知道你怎麼看？臺灣對虛擬貨幣的管理到底應該要到什麼樣的程度？"],["黃主任委員天牧：謝謝委員指導，我想幾年前法務部在協調相關主管機關的時候，就責成金管會作為虛擬資產，尤其屬於支付性質、投資性質的洗錢防制主管機關，所以對業者我們就要求它填具洗錢防制的遵循聲明書。今年年初行政院也有指示金管會作為虛擬資產投資跟支付性質的主管機關，我們在9月份發布指導原則，現在相關平臺業者應該在年底前會成立工會，目前來講明年應該就可以進一步把我們指導原則跟工會的自律規範去做一個結合，這部分還有包括檢查局前一段時間已經有做過訪查，現在開始也規劃去檢查，這是目前我們正在做的事情。"],["吳委員秉叡：主委，你這樣講我知道你們很努力，但是願意檯面化、願意參加工會、願意遵守規律的這些廠商，一般是比較優良的廠商、比較願意遵守你規範的虛擬貨幣的業者；但是不來參加工會的，它就不存在嗎？這些故意在扯爛污的，它就不存在嗎？千萬不要變成說你只管你管得到的喔！因為願意讓你管的、自律的，願意用這樣的標準來做的，基本上我們還稍微比較信任；那一些躲在陽光底下，甚至它根本就沒有參加工會，根本就沒有跟你登記，你也不知道的，它也在做交易，那怎麼辦呢？"],["黃主任委員天牧：其實在各行業都有合法跟非法的這種情況，我們從過去這兩年包括美國的跟香港的這些虛幣，包括日本這些倒閉的事情，已經多次提醒我們的投資人要跟合法的平臺業者往來，當然我們沒辦法說防止每個人不跟非法的業者往來，只能不斷的去宣導、去溝通。"],["吳委員秉叡：對，我想如果要介選，透過虛擬貨幣這樣的通路來做介選的支付工具的話，他當然不可能找檯面上合法的這些業者，不可能走有參加工會的、這些自律的業者，所以我在問的是我們臺灣到底……像我其實一直對把虛擬貨幣合法化的交易抱持著一些疑慮啦！但是如果政府機關真的要做的時候，儘量擴大納入管理，如何去嚴懲這一些根本也不參加自律、根本也不遵守規範，甚至是別人介選工具的這些廠商，如何來處理是比較急迫的問題。"],["黃主任委員天牧：是，這部分不論跟法務部或是跟相關檢調單位，我們其實也都有在溝通，包括洗防法這方面在處理。"],["吳委員秉叡：好，另外第二個問題，昨天我又看到謝金河老師在他的Facebook上面痛斥Google去接受廣告，又有人冒用他的名義，然後又在開設這些所謂股市詐騙類似股友社的東西，他還表明說Google如果再不改進，他要控告Google。我們以前曾經為了這個問題談論過，你說大型跨國公司的這些網站，現在是我們如果告訴它，它就願意下架，因為有那個法律規定之後，是不是這樣？"],["黃主任委員天牧：是，在行政院的督導協調之下，我們在今年6月底，也是謝謝大院財委會委員支持，投信投顧第七十條修正，現在有法源了。其實昨天的那個的消息我們瞭解，謝董事長的這個訊息我們證期局透過自己的管道看到謝先生被冒用，我們有跟刑事局、Google及Meta要它下架。我們的周邊單位從網路資訊上搜尋，也有謝先生的被冒用的情況，我們也每天都有通知警政單位統一去處理這個事情，只是說我們雖然有做過這些動作，後面又有新的冒用的情況發生。"],["吳委員秉叡：如果就昨天這個事情，正常來講你們通知了Google之後，它多久會下架？"],["黃主任委員天牧：它應該最晚1天之內、24小時之內就要下架。"],["吳委員秉叡：好，希望……這個真的是很痛苦啦！因為只要是知名人士，每一個都有被冒用、每一個都有被這樣子的風險啦！當然因為謝老師他在財經領域，然後他又是這麼高知名度的人物，他受害的可能性很高，其實很多公眾人物都有這樣受害的經驗。不知道為什麼我們經過這麼多的努力宣傳、這麼多的努力這樣子講，還有這麼多人願意去相信這些東西？問題的環節到底是出在哪裡？"],["黃主任委員天牧：因為前幾年我們低利率環境可能讓投資人有一些想法啦，不過我覺得我們不斷的在宣導，包括我自己上禮拜也去大學、也去跟學生宣導，要求他們注意這方面，不要輕易受騙，我們會不斷繼續努力。"],["吳委員秉叡：好，回到今天的問題，事實上純網銀設立到今年的6月，3家加起來累虧是66億臺幣，對不對？"],["黃主任委員天牧：是。"],["吳委員秉叡：現在已經是年底了，今年的第三季有比較好嗎？"],["黃主任委員天牧：我目前沒有第三季的資料，不過看起來應該今年還是有增資，有2家公司都有辦理增資。"],["吳委員秉叡：所以很合理的推算，第三季也可能還是繼續累虧啦，第四季恐怕也不是那麼樂觀，你有沒有什麼想法？因為當初這個純網銀的設計，是認為說它幾年之後就能開始賺錢嘛！其實它要負擔的人力、成本之類都是比較低的，它在某一方面是有優勢的，當然現在做起來好像跟我們當初規劃還有設計的有點距離。我相信前面幾年是因為有疫情的關係，那現在社會已經恢復正常了，如何跟他們瞭解問題到底發生在哪裡？能不能夠瞭解他們虧損真實的原因是什麼？"],["黃主任委員天牧：就擴大業務，比方說你吸收的存款怎麼把它去貸放，然後增加很多以手續費收入為主的一些業務，我今天在報告中也提到……"],["吳委員秉叡：是不是會有狀況，因為3家嘛，所以我為了要增加競爭力，所以手續費的部分我儘量減少，或是給予折扣，這樣會不會比另外……譬如說某一家給特別的折扣，我比另外兩家就更有吸引力，會不會產生這樣競爭的狀況？"],["黃主任委員天牧：其實我們在第1家純網銀設立之前發布的新聞稿就有提到，就是說當然它有競爭的優勢，可是也不能夠用競爭的優勢不當影響市場的秩序，這部分要兼顧。"],["吳委員秉叡：是，就好像以前網路下單的證券商，它曾經把手續費折扣到很低，後來公會也不同意、你們也不同意嘛，是類似的狀況。"],["黃主任委員天牧：這就是我跟您報告的，就是它可以有它的優勢，可是不能夠影響市場秩序。"],["吳委員秉叡：好，另外這個會不會是跟民眾的消費習慣有關？因為大部分的企業還有個人，都還是習慣在既有的這些銀行體系裡面去取得融資或是去存放。"],["黃主任委員天牧：我覺得第一個，從國外的經驗來講，像英國的一個銀行也是5年之後才開始損益兩平，那有的純網銀其實到目前為止也並沒有獲利，這個需要一些時間，另外一方面，消費者的行為上面跟業務的開放、擴大上面，都要齊頭並進去努力。我想我們非常瞭解委員的期待、也瞭解社會的期待，我們也不斷的在跟純網銀溝通，能夠幫他們做什麼、開放什麼？我們都在努力。"],["吳委員秉叡：是，既然設立了，我們就希望它能夠茁壯嘛，然後能夠走得健全。但是我還是回到今天問題的第一點，我覺得這個虛擬貨幣的事情，還真的是要再多一些的觀察跟思考，因為這個將來如果要繼續存在影響很大，我認為虛擬貨幣本身就是一個很大、很有疑問的東西啦！"],["黃主任委員天牧：報告委員，我跟您一樣同時持著審慎的態度，不過國際間都投資，這是一個事實，我們還是必須要從投資人保護的角度去處理。"],["吳委員秉叡：以前最大的靠山是中國嘛！"],["黃主任委員天牧：是。"],["吳委員秉叡：眼看著中國的經濟就快完蛋了，所以現在很多虛擬貨幣的交易所，各式各樣的交易，還有虛擬貨幣本身都在出問題喔！所以我覺得這個東西還是再思考、再觀察，把它……"],["黃主任委員天牧：我們非常的審慎，一方面要讓民眾有一個合法的管道可以投資，一方面又要保護投資人，這個部分我們會努力。"],["吳委員秉叡：好，謝謝。"],["黃主任委員天牧：謝謝委員。"],["主席：謝謝。接下來請賴士葆賴委員上台質詢。"]],"agenda":{"page_end":342,"meet_id":"委員會-10-8-20-20","speakers":["沈發惠","林德福","吳秉叡","賴士葆","李貴敏","郭國文","費鴻泰","鍾佳濱","高嘉瑜","陳椒華","林楚茵","羅明才"],"page_start":293,"meetingDate":["2023-12-11"],"gazette_id":"1130201","agenda_lcidc_ids":["1130201_00005"],"meet_name":"立法院第10屆第8會期財政委員會第20次全體委員會議紀錄","content":"一、邀請金融監督管理委員會黃主任委員天牧就（一）「開放銀行」（Open 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429.456, \"end\": 429.476, \"score\": 0.975}]}, {\"start\": 430.296, \"end\": 444.254, \"text\": \"好 那就回到今天的問題了存網營事實上設立到現在到今年的六月是三家加起來累虧是66億台幣嘛對不對是那現在已經是年底了那第三季有比較好嗎\", \"words\": [{\"word\": \"好\", \"start\": 430.296, \"end\": 430.617, \"score\": 0.999}, {\"word\": \"那\", \"start\": 430.617, \"end\": 430.817, \"score\": 0.994}, {\"word\": \"就\", \"start\": 430.817, \"end\": 431.077, \"score\": 0.912}, {\"word\": \"回\", \"start\": 431.077, \"end\": 431.197, \"score\": 1.0}, {\"word\": \"到\", \"start\": 431.197, \"end\": 431.337, \"score\": 0.995}, {\"word\": \"今\", \"start\": 431.337, \"end\": 431.478, \"score\": 0.996}, {\"word\": \"天\", \"start\": 431.478, \"end\": 431.658, \"score\": 0.997}, {\"word\": \"的\", \"start\": 431.658, \"end\": 432.038, \"score\": 1.0}, {\"word\": \"問\"}, {\"word\": \"題\"}, {\"word\": \"了\", \"start\": 432.038, \"end\": 433.32, \"score\": 0.939}, {\"word\": \"存\", \"start\": 433.32, \"end\": 434.041, \"score\": 0.923}, {\"word\": \"網\"}, {\"word\": \"營\"}, 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437.505, \"score\": 0.997}, {\"word\": \"家\", \"start\": 437.505, \"end\": 437.746, \"score\": 0.957}, {\"word\": \"加\", \"start\": 437.746, \"end\": 437.926, \"score\": 0.912}, {\"word\": \"起\", \"start\": 437.926, \"end\": 438.126, \"score\": 0.9}, {\"word\": \"來\"}, {\"word\": \"累\", \"start\": 438.126, \"end\": 438.567, \"score\": 0.917}, {\"word\": \"虧\"}, {\"word\": \"是\", \"start\": 438.567, \"end\": 439.748, \"score\": 0.916}, {\"word\": \"6\"}, {\"word\": \"6\"}, {\"word\": \"億\"}, {\"word\": \"台\", \"start\": 439.748, \"end\": 440.009, \"score\": 0.996}, {\"word\": \"幣\"}, {\"word\": \"嘛\", \"start\": 440.009, \"end\": 440.469, \"score\": 0.861}, {\"word\": \"對\"}, {\"word\": \"不\", \"start\": 440.469, \"end\": 440.589, \"score\": 0.87}, {\"word\": \"對\"}, {\"word\": \"是\", \"start\": 440.589, \"end\": 441.411, \"score\": 0.978}, {\"word\": \"那\", \"start\": 441.411, \"end\": 442.071, \"score\": 0.97}, {\"word\": \"現\"}, {\"word\": \"在\", \"start\": 442.071, \"end\": 442.312, \"score\": 1.0}, {\"word\": \"已\", \"start\": 442.312, \"end\": 442.492, \"score\": 0.889}, {\"word\": \"經\"}, {\"word\": \"是\", \"start\": 442.492, \"end\": 442.612, \"score\": 0.834}, {\"word\": \"年\", \"start\": 442.612, \"end\": 442.872, \"score\": 0.985}, {\"word\": \"底\", \"start\": 442.872, \"end\": 443.073, \"score\": 0.903}, {\"word\": \"了\", \"start\": 443.073, \"end\": 443.153, \"score\": 0.75}, {\"word\": \"那\", \"start\": 443.153, \"end\": 443.333, \"score\": 0.997}, {\"word\": \"第\", \"start\": 443.333, \"end\": 443.453, \"score\": 1.0}, {\"word\": \"三\", \"start\": 443.453, \"end\": 443.693, \"score\": 1.0}, {\"word\": \"季\", \"start\": 443.693, \"end\": 443.854, \"score\": 0.893}, {\"word\": \"有\", \"start\": 443.854, \"end\": 443.994, \"score\": 0.87}, {\"word\": \"比\", \"start\": 443.994, \"end\": 444.234, \"score\": 0.912}, {\"word\": \"較\"}, {\"word\": \"好\", \"start\": 444.234, \"end\": 444.254, \"score\": 0.999}, {\"word\": \"嗎\"}]}, {\"start\": 445.458, \"end\": 466.271, \"text\": \"今年的第三季我目前沒有第三季的資料不過看起來應該今年還是有增資有一兩家公司都有辦理增資所以很合理的推算第三季也可能還是繼續累虧啦第四季恐怕也不是那麼樂觀你有沒有什麼樣的想法因為當初這個存網營的設計是認為說他幾年之後\", \"words\": [{\"word\": \"今\", \"start\": 445.458, \"end\": 445.598, \"score\": 0.883}, {\"word\": \"年\", \"start\": 445.598, \"end\": 445.718, \"score\": 0.892}, {\"word\": \"的\", \"start\": 445.718, \"end\": 445.858, \"score\": 0.999}, {\"word\": \"第\", \"start\": 445.858, \"end\": 445.978, \"score\": 0.999}, {\"word\": \"三\", \"start\": 445.978, \"end\": 446.198, \"score\": 0.999}, {\"word\": \"季\", \"start\": 446.198, \"end\": 447.319, \"score\": 0.974}, {\"word\": \"我\", \"start\": 447.319, \"end\": 448.04, \"score\": 0.972}, {\"word\": \"目\", \"start\": 448.04, \"end\": 448.22, \"score\": 0.996}, {\"word\": \"前\", \"start\": 448.22, \"end\": 448.4, \"score\": 0.844}, {\"word\": \"沒\", \"start\": 448.4, \"end\": 448.54, \"score\": 0.857}, {\"word\": \"有\", \"start\": 448.54, \"end\": 448.68, \"score\": 1.0}, {\"word\": \"第\", \"start\": 448.68, 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\"那有的存網營到目前也沒有獲利這個需要一些時間那另外一方面消費者的行為上面跟業務的開放跟擴大上面都要齊頭並進去努力我想我們非常了解委員的期待也了解社會的期待我們不斷的也在跟存網營溝通能夠幫他們做什麼開放什麼我們都在努力\", \"words\": [{\"word\": \"那\", \"start\": 582.096, \"end\": 582.236, \"score\": 0.996}, {\"word\": \"有\", \"start\": 582.236, \"end\": 582.396, \"score\": 0.996}, {\"word\": \"的\", \"start\": 582.396, \"end\": 583.517, \"score\": 0.866}, {\"word\": \"存\", \"start\": 583.517, \"end\": 583.637, \"score\": 0.914}, {\"word\": \"網\"}, {\"word\": \"營\"}, {\"word\": \"到\", \"start\": 583.637, \"end\": 584.017, \"score\": 0.843}, {\"word\": \"目\", \"start\": 584.017, \"end\": 584.137, \"score\": 0.989}, {\"word\": \"前\", \"start\": 584.137, \"end\": 585.198, \"score\": 0.92}, {\"word\": \"也\", \"start\": 585.198, \"end\": 585.318, \"score\": 0.956}, {\"word\": \"沒\", \"start\": 585.318, \"end\": 585.438, \"score\": 0.832}, {\"word\": \"有\", \"start\": 585.438, \"end\": 585.798, \"score\": 0.933}, {\"word\": \"獲\"}, {\"word\": \"利\", \"start\": 585.798, \"end\": 586.798, \"score\": 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00:01:20,942\n那不能夠透過這個換匯的支付他就用虛擬貨幣來支付也達到他要支付的目的啊所以這個問題不知道你怎麼看台灣到底對這個虛擬貨幣的管理到底應該要到什麼樣的程度\n\n4\n00:01:22,306 --> 00:01:40,220\n謝謝委員指導,我想幾年前法務部在協調相關主管機關的時候就責成金管會作為虛擬資產,尤其是屬於支付性質、投資性質的洗錢房制主管機關所以對業者我們就要求他填去洗錢房制的遵循的聲明書\n\n5\n00:01:41,341 --> 00:02:00,772\n今年年初行政院指示金管會作為虛擬資產投資跟支付性質的主管機關我們在九月份發布指導原則現在相關業者的平台業者應該在年底前會成立工會我們在目前來講明年應該進一步就可以把我們指導原則跟工會的\n\n6\n00:02:02,853 --> 00:02:31,019\n自律規範去做一個結合這部分還有包括檢察局這邊也有已經有前一段時間有做過訪查現在開始規劃去檢查這是目前我們正在做的事情主委你這樣講我知道你們很努力但是那個願意檯面上話檯面話願意參加工會願意遵守規律的這些的廠商一般是比較優良的廠商比較願意遵守你規範的這個\n\n7\n00:02:34,012 --> 00:02:54,650\n這個虛擬貨幣的業者但是不來參加公會的他就不存在嗎這些故意在扯爛路的他就不存在嗎千萬不要變成說我是管我管的道導因為願意讓你管的願意供自律的願意用這樣的標準來做的基本上我們還是稍微比較信任\n\n8\n00:02:55,540 --> 00:03:04,926\n那些躲在陽光底下根本就沒有參加公會根本就一個沒有跟你登記你也不知道的他也在做交易那怎麼辦\n\n9\n00:03:06,963 --> 00:03:34,031\n其實這個在各行業都有合法跟非法的這種情況那我們從過去這兩年包括美國的跟香港的這些虛弊包括日本這些倒閉的事情已經多次提醒我們的投資人要跟合法的平台業者去往來當然我們沒辦法說防止每個人不跟非法的業者去往來那只能不斷的去去宣導去溝通對那我想如果要借選\n\n10\n00:03:35,111 --> 00:03:50,447\n透過虛擬貨幣這樣的通路來做借選的支付工具的話他當然不可能走檯面上的合法的這些業者不可能走有參加工會的這些自律的業者\n\n11\n00:03:51,428 --> 00:04:19,667\n所以我在問的是說我們台灣到底像我其實我一直對虛擬貨幣的這個把它合法化的交易我一直是抱持著有一些疑慮但是如果政府機關真的要做的時候盡量擴大納入管理那如何去嚴懲這一些根本就不接根本也不參加自律根本也不遵守這個規範甚至是別人借選的工具的這些廠商要如何來處理是比較急迫的問題\n\n12\n00:04:21,285 --> 00:04:46,680\n這部分其實我們不論跟法務部或是跟相關檢調單位其實也都有在溝通包括洗房法這方面在處理另外第二個問題是昨天我看到謝金河老師他的Facebook上面他在痛斥Google去接受廣告然後又有人冒用他的名義\n\n13\n00:04:48,240 --> 00:05:04,909\n然後又在開設這些所謂的股市詐騙類似股友社這類的東西他還表明說Google如果再不改進他要控告Google我們以前曾經為這個問題談論過你說這些跨國公司的大型網站\n\n14\n00:05:12,513 --> 00:05:31,614\n現在是我們如果告訴他他就願意下架因為有那個法律規定之後是不是這樣是也是在行政院的督導協調之下我們在今年六月底也是謝謝大院參議會委員支持《投信投顧法》70條修正那現在有法源了那其實\n\n15\n00:05:33,556 --> 00:06:00,657\n昨天那個消息其實我們了解謝董事長的這個訊息我們自己在政企局自己本身透過自己的管道看到謝先生被冒用我們有跟這個刑事局跟GoogleMeta叫他下架我們的周邊單位從網路資訊上搜尋也有謝先生的被冒用的情況我們也每天都有通知警政單位去同意去處理這個事情\n\n16\n00:06:01,678 --> 00:06:08,896\n只是說我們雖然有做過這些動作後面又有新的這個冒用的這個情況發生那如果昨天這個事情\n\n17\n00:06:09,980 --> 00:06:35,777\n正常來講你們通知了之後通知了Google之後他多久會下架他應該最晚一天之內24小時之內就要下架好那希望我是這個是真的很痛苦因為只要是知名人士每一個都有被冒用每一個都有被這樣子的風險當然因為謝老師他在財經領域然後他又是這麼高知名度的人物他受害的可能性很高其實很多公眾人物都有這樣受害的經驗那\n\n18\n00:06:38,547 --> 00:06:49,454\n不知道為什麼我們經過這麼多的努力宣傳這麼多努力的這樣子的講還有這麼多人願意相信這些東西這個到底是問題的環節到底是出在哪裡\n\n19\n00:06:52,366 --> 00:07:09,476\n因為如果說前幾年我們低利率環境可能讓投資人有一些想法不過我覺得我們不斷地在宣導包括我自己上禮拜也去大學也去跟學生宣導要求他們注意這方面不要輕易受騙我想我們會不斷地繼續努力\n\n20\n00:07:10,296 --> 00:07:24,254\n好那就回到今天的問題了存網營事實上設立到現在到今年的六月是三家加起來累虧是66億台幣嘛對不對是那現在已經是年底了那第三季有比較好嗎\n\n21\n00:07:25,458 --> 00:07:46,271\n今年的第三季我目前沒有第三季的資料不過看起來應該今年還是有增資有一兩家公司都有辦理增資所以很合理的推算第三季也可能還是繼續累虧啦第四季恐怕也不是那麼樂觀你有沒有什麼樣的想法因為當初這個存網營的設計是認為說他幾年之後\n\n22\n00:07:48,812 --> 00:08:16,125\n就能開始賺錢嘛其實他要負擔的人力成本什麼東西都是比較低的他在某一方面是有優勢那當然現在做起來好像跟我們當初這個規劃還有設計的有點距離那我相信說前面幾年是因為有疫情的關係那現在已經社會恢復正常了如何跟他們了解問題到底發生在哪裡啊怎麼樣辦法能不能夠\n\n23\n00:08:17,325 --> 00:08:39,724\n要了解他們真正虧損的真實的原因是什麼擴大業務比方說你吸收的存款怎麼把它去待放然後增加很多以手續費收入為主的一些業務我今天在報告中也提到那是不是會有狀況就是說要去三加嘛所以我為了要增加競爭力所以我就手續費的部分我盡量給予說減少\n\n24\n00:08:41,505 --> 00:09:03,274\n或是給予折扣這樣會不會比另外譬如說我某一家我就給特別的折扣我比另外兩家就更有吸引力會有產生這樣的競爭的狀況嗎這個其實我們在發布記得在全網營設立第一家設立之前發布新聞稿就有提到就是說當然它有競爭的優勢可是也不能夠用競爭的優勢不斷影響市場的秩序\n\n25\n00:09:05,615 --> 00:09:21,736\n這部分要兼顧就像以前網路下單的證券商他曾經把手續費折扣到很低後來工會也不同意你們也不同意類似的狀況他可以有他的優勢可是不能夠影響市場秩序\n\n26\n00:09:23,098 --> 00:09:41,896\n那另外這個會不會是跟民眾的消費習慣有關因為大部分的企業還有個人都還是習慣在現在既有的這些銀行的體系裡面去取得這個融資或是去存放我覺得第一個從國外的經驗來講像英國的一個銀行他也是五年之後才開始水一兩瓶了\n\n27\n00:09:42,096 --> 00:10:05,388\n那有的存網營到目前也沒有獲利這個需要一些時間那另外一方面消費者的行為上面跟業務的開放跟擴大上面都要齊頭並進去努力我想我們非常了解委員的期待也了解社會的期待我們不斷的也在跟存網營溝通能夠幫他們做什麼開放什麼我們都在努力\n\n28\n00:10:06,288 --> 00:10:33,295\n既然設立了我們就希望他能夠茁壯能夠走得健全但是我還是回到今天問題的第一點我覺得這個虛擬貨幣的事情還要真的是要再多一些的觀察跟思考因為這個將來如果要繼續存在影響很大我本身認為這個虛擬貨幣本身就是一個很大的很有疑問的東西啦鮑委員我跟您一樣同時持的審慎的態度不過這是一個\n\n29\n00:10:34,963 --> 00:10:49,771\n國際間都投資是一個事實我們還是必須要從投資人保護的角度去處理以前最大的靠山是中國眼看了中國的經濟就快完蛋了所以現在很多虛擬貨幣的交易所各式各樣的交易還有虛擬貨幣本身都在出問題\n\n30\n00:10:51,102 --> 00:11:05,267\n所以我是覺得這個東西還是再思考再觀察我們非常的審慎一方面要讓民眾有一個合法的管道可以投資一方面要保護投資人這個部分我們會努力好謝謝謝謝委員好謝謝接下來請賴世保賴委員上台質詢\n\n","tsv":"start\tend\ttext\n6778\t35714\t主席麻煩請金管會黃主委請黃主委上台備選是 委員長主委早我今天看到幾個問題想要跟你請教就是今天的媒體有報導說這個中國借選那中國借選的可能性很高加上大量的資訊可能最後都會氾濫其中這個借選有一個工具\n36653\t65976\t他認為是虛擬貨幣要求這個國安跟檢調單位要盯緊這個虛擬貨幣的這個交易說虛擬貨幣這個東西當然是隨著科技的發展發達好像新的東西然後很多人就會去接受可是他引申的弊端也實在是非常的多像這個又變成一個簡單來講也是另外一種洗錢他要支付他不能夠透過人民幣支付\n66980\t80942\t那不能夠透過這個換匯的支付他就用虛擬貨幣來支付也達到他要支付的目的啊所以這個問題不知道你怎麼看台灣到底對這個虛擬貨幣的管理到底應該要到什麼樣的程度\n82306\t100220\t謝謝委員指導,我想幾年前法務部在協調相關主管機關的時候就責成金管會作為虛擬資產,尤其是屬於支付性質、投資性質的洗錢房制主管機關所以對業者我們就要求他填去洗錢房制的遵循的聲明書\n101341\t120772\t今年年初行政院指示金管會作為虛擬資產投資跟支付性質的主管機關我們在九月份發布指導原則現在相關業者的平台業者應該在年底前會成立工會我們在目前來講明年應該進一步就可以把我們指導原則跟工會的\n122853\t151019\t自律規範去做一個結合這部分還有包括檢察局這邊也有已經有前一段時間有做過訪查現在開始規劃去檢查這是目前我們正在做的事情主委你這樣講我知道你們很努力但是那個願意檯面上話檯面話願意參加工會願意遵守規律的這些的廠商一般是比較優良的廠商比較願意遵守你規範的這個\n154012\t174650\t這個虛擬貨幣的業者但是不來參加公會的他就不存在嗎這些故意在扯爛路的他就不存在嗎千萬不要變成說我是管我管的道導因為願意讓你管的 願意供自律的 願意用這樣的標準來做的基本上我們還是稍微比較信任\n175540\t184926\t那些躲在陽光底下根本就沒有參加公會根本就一個沒有跟你登記你也不知道的他也在做交易那怎麼辦\n186963\t214031\t其實這個在各行業都有合法跟非法的這種情況那我們從過去這兩年包括美國的跟香港的這些虛弊包括日本這些倒閉的事情已經多次提醒我們的投資人要跟合法的平台業者去往來當然我們沒辦法說防止每個人不跟非法的業者去往來那只能不斷的去去宣導去溝通對 那我想如果要借選\n215111\t230447\t透過虛擬貨幣這樣的通路來做借選的支付工具的話他當然不可能走檯面上的合法的這些業者不可能走有參加工會的這些自律的業者\n231428\t259667\t所以我在問的是說我們台灣到底像我其實我一直對虛擬貨幣的這個把它合法化的交易我一直是抱持著有一些疑慮但是如果政府機關真的要做的時候盡量擴大納入管理那如何去嚴懲這一些根本就不接根本也不參加自律根本也不遵守這個規範甚至是別人借選的工具的這些廠商要如何來處理是比較急迫的問題\n261285\t286680\t這部分其實我們不論跟法務部或是跟相關檢調單位其實也都有在溝通包括洗房法這方面在處理另外第二個問題是昨天我看到謝金河老師他的Facebook上面他在痛斥Google去接受廣告然後又有人冒用他的名義\n288240\t304909\t然後又在開設這些所謂的股市詐騙類似股友社這類的東西他還表明說Google如果再不改進他要控告Google我們以前曾經為這個問題談論過你說這些跨國公司的大型網站\n312513\t331614\t現在是我們如果告訴他 他就願意下架因為有那個法律規定之後 是不是這樣是 也是在行政院的督導協調之下我們在今年六月底也是謝謝大院 參議會委員支持《投信投顧法》70條修正那現在有法源了 那其實\n333556\t360657\t昨天那個消息其實我們了解謝董事長的這個訊息我們自己在政企局自己本身透過自己的管道看到謝先生被冒用我們有跟這個刑事局跟Google Meta叫他下架我們的周邊單位從網路資訊上搜尋也有謝先生的被冒用的情況我們也每天都有通知警政單位去同意去處理這個事情\n361678\t368896\t只是說我們雖然有做過這些動作後面又有新的這個冒用的這個情況發生那如果昨天這個事情\n369980\t395777\t正常來講你們通知了之後通知了Google之後他多久會下架他應該最晚一天之內24小時之內就要下架好那希望我是這個是真的很痛苦因為只要是知名人士每一個都有被冒用每一個都有被這樣子的風險當然因為謝老師他在財經領域然後他又是這麼高知名度的人物他受害的可能性很高其實很多公眾人物都有這樣受害的經驗那\n398547\t409454\t不知道為什麼我們經過這麼多的努力宣傳這麼多努力的這樣子的講還有這麼多人願意相信這些東西這個到底是問題的環節到底是出在哪裡\n412366\t429476\t因為如果說前幾年我們低利率環境可能讓投資人有一些想法不過我覺得我們不斷地在宣導包括我自己上禮拜也去大學也去跟學生宣導要求他們注意這方面不要輕易受騙我想我們會不斷地繼續努力\n430296\t444254\t好 那就回到今天的問題了存網營事實上設立到現在到今年的六月是三家加起來累虧是66億台幣嘛對不對是那現在已經是年底了那第三季有比較好嗎\n445458\t466271\t今年的第三季我目前沒有第三季的資料不過看起來應該今年還是有增資有一兩家公司都有辦理增資所以很合理的推算第三季也可能還是繼續累虧啦第四季恐怕也不是那麼樂觀你有沒有什麼樣的想法因為當初這個存網營的設計是認為說他幾年之後\n468812\t496125\t就能開始賺錢嘛其實他要負擔的人力成本什麼東西都是比較低的他在某一方面是有優勢那當然現在做起來好像跟我們當初這個規劃還有設計的有點距離那我相信說前面幾年是因為有疫情的關係那現在已經社會恢復正常了如何跟他們了解問題到底發生在哪裡啊怎麼樣辦法能不能夠\n497325\t519724\t要了解他們真正虧損的真實的原因是什麼擴大業務 比方說你吸收的存款怎麼把它去待放然後增加很多以手續費收入為主的一些業務我今天在報告中也提到那是不是會有狀況就是說要去三加嘛所以我為了要增加競爭力所以我就手續費的部分我盡量給予說減少\n521505\t543274\t或是給予折扣 這樣會不會比另外 譬如說我某一家我就給特別的折扣我比另外兩家就更有吸引力 會有產生這樣的競爭的狀況嗎這個其實我們在發布 記得在全網營設立第一家設立之前發布新聞稿就有提到就是說當然它有競爭的優勢 可是也不能夠用競爭的優勢不斷影響市場的秩序\n545615\t561736\t這部分要兼顧就像以前網路下單的證券商他曾經把手續費折扣到很低後來工會也不同意你們也不同意類似的狀況他可以有他的優勢可是不能夠影響市場秩序\n563098\t581896\t那另外這個會不會是跟民眾的消費習慣有關因為大部分的企業還有個人都還是習慣在現在既有的這些銀行的體系裡面去取得這個融資或是去存放我覺得第一個從國外的經驗來講像英國的一個銀行他也是五年之後才開始水一兩瓶了\n582096\t605388\t那有的存網營到目前也沒有獲利這個需要一些時間那另外一方面消費者的行為上面跟業務的開放跟擴大上面都要齊頭並進去努力我想我們非常了解委員的期待也了解社會的期待我們不斷的也在跟存網營溝通能夠幫他們做什麼開放什麼我們都在努力\n606288\t633295\t既然設立了我們就希望他能夠茁壯能夠走得健全但是我還是回到今天問題的第一點我覺得這個虛擬貨幣的事情還要真的是要再多一些的觀察跟思考因為這個將來如果要繼續存在影響很大我本身認為這個虛擬貨幣本身就是一個很大的很有疑問的東西啦鮑委員我跟您一樣同時持的審慎的態度不過這是一個\n634963\t649771\t國際間都投資是一個事實我們還是必須要從投資人保護的角度去處理以前最大的靠山是中國眼看了中國的經濟就快完蛋了所以現在很多虛擬貨幣的交易所各式各樣的交易還有虛擬貨幣本身都在出問題\n651102\t665267\t所以我是覺得這個東西還是再思考再觀察我們非常的審慎一方面要讓民眾有一個合法的管道可以投資一方面要保護投資人這個部分我們會努力好 謝謝謝謝委員好 謝謝接下來請賴世保賴委員上台質詢\n","txt":"主席麻煩請金管會黃主委請黃主委上台備選是 委員長主委早我今天看到幾個問題想要跟你請教就是今天的媒體有報導說這個中國借選那中國借選的可能性很高加上大量的資訊可能最後都會氾濫其中這個借選有一個工具\n他認為是虛擬貨幣要求這個國安跟檢調單位要盯緊這個虛擬貨幣的這個交易說虛擬貨幣這個東西當然是隨著科技的發展發達好像新的東西然後很多人就會去接受可是他引申的弊端也實在是非常的多像這個又變成一個簡單來講也是另外一種洗錢他要支付他不能夠透過人民幣支付\n那不能夠透過這個換匯的支付他就用虛擬貨幣來支付也達到他要支付的目的啊所以這個問題不知道你怎麼看台灣到底對這個虛擬貨幣的管理到底應該要到什麼樣的程度\n謝謝委員指導,我想幾年前法務部在協調相關主管機關的時候就責成金管會作為虛擬資產,尤其是屬於支付性質、投資性質的洗錢房制主管機關所以對業者我們就要求他填去洗錢房制的遵循的聲明書\n今年年初行政院指示金管會作為虛擬資產投資跟支付性質的主管機關我們在九月份發布指導原則現在相關業者的平台業者應該在年底前會成立工會我們在目前來講明年應該進一步就可以把我們指導原則跟工會的\n自律規範去做一個結合這部分還有包括檢察局這邊也有已經有前一段時間有做過訪查現在開始規劃去檢查這是目前我們正在做的事情主委你這樣講我知道你們很努力但是那個願意檯面上話檯面話願意參加工會願意遵守規律的這些的廠商一般是比較優良的廠商比較願意遵守你規範的這個\n這個虛擬貨幣的業者但是不來參加公會的他就不存在嗎這些故意在扯爛路的他就不存在嗎千萬不要變成說我是管我管的道導因為願意讓你管的 願意供自律的 願意用這樣的標準來做的基本上我們還是稍微比較信任\n那些躲在陽光底下根本就沒有參加公會根本就一個沒有跟你登記你也不知道的他也在做交易那怎麼辦\n其實這個在各行業都有合法跟非法的這種情況那我們從過去這兩年包括美國的跟香港的這些虛弊包括日本這些倒閉的事情已經多次提醒我們的投資人要跟合法的平台業者去往來當然我們沒辦法說防止每個人不跟非法的業者去往來那只能不斷的去去宣導去溝通對 那我想如果要借選\n透過虛擬貨幣這樣的通路來做借選的支付工具的話他當然不可能走檯面上的合法的這些業者不可能走有參加工會的這些自律的業者\n所以我在問的是說我們台灣到底像我其實我一直對虛擬貨幣的這個把它合法化的交易我一直是抱持著有一些疑慮但是如果政府機關真的要做的時候盡量擴大納入管理那如何去嚴懲這一些根本就不接根本也不參加自律根本也不遵守這個規範甚至是別人借選的工具的這些廠商要如何來處理是比較急迫的問題\n這部分其實我們不論跟法務部或是跟相關檢調單位其實也都有在溝通包括洗房法這方面在處理另外第二個問題是昨天我看到謝金河老師他的Facebook上面他在痛斥Google去接受廣告然後又有人冒用他的名義\n然後又在開設這些所謂的股市詐騙類似股友社這類的東西他還表明說Google如果再不改進他要控告Google我們以前曾經為這個問題談論過你說這些跨國公司的大型網站\n現在是我們如果告訴他 他就願意下架因為有那個法律規定之後 是不是這樣是 也是在行政院的督導協調之下我們在今年六月底也是謝謝大院 參議會委員支持《投信投顧法》70條修正那現在有法源了 那其實\n昨天那個消息其實我們了解謝董事長的這個訊息我們自己在政企局自己本身透過自己的管道看到謝先生被冒用我們有跟這個刑事局跟Google Meta叫他下架我們的周邊單位從網路資訊上搜尋也有謝先生的被冒用的情況我們也每天都有通知警政單位去同意去處理這個事情\n只是說我們雖然有做過這些動作後面又有新的這個冒用的這個情況發生那如果昨天這個事情\n正常來講你們通知了之後通知了Google之後他多久會下架他應該最晚一天之內24小時之內就要下架好那希望我是這個是真的很痛苦因為只要是知名人士每一個都有被冒用每一個都有被這樣子的風險當然因為謝老師他在財經領域然後他又是這麼高知名度的人物他受害的可能性很高其實很多公眾人物都有這樣受害的經驗那\n不知道為什麼我們經過這麼多的努力宣傳這麼多努力的這樣子的講還有這麼多人願意相信這些東西這個到底是問題的環節到底是出在哪裡\n因為如果說前幾年我們低利率環境可能讓投資人有一些想法不過我覺得我們不斷地在宣導包括我自己上禮拜也去大學也去跟學生宣導要求他們注意這方面不要輕易受騙我想我們會不斷地繼續努力\n好 那就回到今天的問題了存網營事實上設立到現在到今年的六月是三家加起來累虧是66億台幣嘛對不對是那現在已經是年底了那第三季有比較好嗎\n今年的第三季我目前沒有第三季的資料不過看起來應該今年還是有增資有一兩家公司都有辦理增資所以很合理的推算第三季也可能還是繼續累虧啦第四季恐怕也不是那麼樂觀你有沒有什麼樣的想法因為當初這個存網營的設計是認為說他幾年之後\n就能開始賺錢嘛其實他要負擔的人力成本什麼東西都是比較低的他在某一方面是有優勢那當然現在做起來好像跟我們當初這個規劃還有設計的有點距離那我相信說前面幾年是因為有疫情的關係那現在已經社會恢復正常了如何跟他們了解問題到底發生在哪裡啊怎麼樣辦法能不能夠\n要了解他們真正虧損的真實的原因是什麼擴大業務 比方說你吸收的存款怎麼把它去待放然後增加很多以手續費收入為主的一些業務我今天在報告中也提到那是不是會有狀況就是說要去三加嘛所以我為了要增加競爭力所以我就手續費的部分我盡量給予說減少\n或是給予折扣 這樣會不會比另外 譬如說我某一家我就給特別的折扣我比另外兩家就更有吸引力 會有產生這樣的競爭的狀況嗎這個其實我們在發布 記得在全網營設立第一家設立之前發布新聞稿就有提到就是說當然它有競爭的優勢 可是也不能夠用競爭的優勢不斷影響市場的秩序\n這部分要兼顧就像以前網路下單的證券商他曾經把手續費折扣到很低後來工會也不同意你們也不同意類似的狀況他可以有他的優勢可是不能夠影響市場秩序\n那另外這個會不會是跟民眾的消費習慣有關因為大部分的企業還有個人都還是習慣在現在既有的這些銀行的體系裡面去取得這個融資或是去存放我覺得第一個從國外的經驗來講像英國的一個銀行他也是五年之後才開始水一兩瓶了\n那有的存網營到目前也沒有獲利這個需要一些時間那另外一方面消費者的行為上面跟業務的開放跟擴大上面都要齊頭並進去努力我想我們非常了解委員的期待也了解社會的期待我們不斷的也在跟存網營溝通能夠幫他們做什麼開放什麼我們都在努力\n既然設立了我們就希望他能夠茁壯能夠走得健全但是我還是回到今天問題的第一點我覺得這個虛擬貨幣的事情還要真的是要再多一些的觀察跟思考因為這個將來如果要繼續存在影響很大我本身認為這個虛擬貨幣本身就是一個很大的很有疑問的東西啦鮑委員我跟您一樣同時持的審慎的態度不過這是一個\n國際間都投資是一個事實我們還是必須要從投資人保護的角度去處理以前最大的靠山是中國眼看了中國的經濟就快完蛋了所以現在很多虛擬貨幣的交易所各式各樣的交易還有虛擬貨幣本身都在出問題\n所以我是覺得這個東西還是再思考再觀察我們非常的審慎一方面要讓民眾有一個合法的管道可以投資一方面要保護投資人這個部分我們會努力好 謝謝謝謝委員好 謝謝接下來請賴世保賴委員上台質詢\n","vtt":"WEBVTT\n\n00:06.778 --> 00:35.714\n主席麻煩請金管會黃主委請黃主委上台備選是委員長主委早我今天看到幾個問題想要跟你請教就是今天的媒體有報導說這個中國借選那中國借選的可能性很高加上大量的資訊可能最後都會氾濫其中這個借選有一個工具\n\n00:36.653 --> 01:05.976\n他認為是虛擬貨幣要求這個國安跟檢調單位要盯緊這個虛擬貨幣的這個交易說虛擬貨幣這個東西當然是隨著科技的發展發達好像新的東西然後很多人就會去接受可是他引申的弊端也實在是非常的多像這個又變成一個簡單來講也是另外一種洗錢他要支付他不能夠透過人民幣支付\n\n01:06.980 --> 01:20.942\n那不能夠透過這個換匯的支付他就用虛擬貨幣來支付也達到他要支付的目的啊所以這個問題不知道你怎麼看台灣到底對這個虛擬貨幣的管理到底應該要到什麼樣的程度\n\n01:22.306 --> 01:40.220\n謝謝委員指導,我想幾年前法務部在協調相關主管機關的時候就責成金管會作為虛擬資產,尤其是屬於支付性質、投資性質的洗錢房制主管機關所以對業者我們就要求他填去洗錢房制的遵循的聲明書\n\n01:41.341 --> 02:00.772\n今年年初行政院指示金管會作為虛擬資產投資跟支付性質的主管機關我們在九月份發布指導原則現在相關業者的平台業者應該在年底前會成立工會我們在目前來講明年應該進一步就可以把我們指導原則跟工會的\n\n02:02.853 --> 02:31.019\n自律規範去做一個結合這部分還有包括檢察局這邊也有已經有前一段時間有做過訪查現在開始規劃去檢查這是目前我們正在做的事情主委你這樣講我知道你們很努力但是那個願意檯面上話檯面話願意參加工會願意遵守規律的這些的廠商一般是比較優良的廠商比較願意遵守你規範的這個\n\n02:34.012 --> 02:54.650\n這個虛擬貨幣的業者但是不來參加公會的他就不存在嗎這些故意在扯爛路的他就不存在嗎千萬不要變成說我是管我管的道導因為願意讓你管的願意供自律的願意用這樣的標準來做的基本上我們還是稍微比較信任\n\n02:55.540 --> 03:04.926\n那些躲在陽光底下根本就沒有參加公會根本就一個沒有跟你登記你也不知道的他也在做交易那怎麼辦\n\n03:06.963 --> 03:34.031\n其實這個在各行業都有合法跟非法的這種情況那我們從過去這兩年包括美國的跟香港的這些虛弊包括日本這些倒閉的事情已經多次提醒我們的投資人要跟合法的平台業者去往來當然我們沒辦法說防止每個人不跟非法的業者去往來那只能不斷的去去宣導去溝通對那我想如果要借選\n\n03:35.111 --> 03:50.447\n透過虛擬貨幣這樣的通路來做借選的支付工具的話他當然不可能走檯面上的合法的這些業者不可能走有參加工會的這些自律的業者\n\n03:51.428 --> 04:19.667\n所以我在問的是說我們台灣到底像我其實我一直對虛擬貨幣的這個把它合法化的交易我一直是抱持著有一些疑慮但是如果政府機關真的要做的時候盡量擴大納入管理那如何去嚴懲這一些根本就不接根本也不參加自律根本也不遵守這個規範甚至是別人借選的工具的這些廠商要如何來處理是比較急迫的問題\n\n04:21.285 --> 04:46.680\n這部分其實我們不論跟法務部或是跟相關檢調單位其實也都有在溝通包括洗房法這方面在處理另外第二個問題是昨天我看到謝金河老師他的Facebook上面他在痛斥Google去接受廣告然後又有人冒用他的名義\n\n04:48.240 --> 05:04.909\n然後又在開設這些所謂的股市詐騙類似股友社這類的東西他還表明說Google如果再不改進他要控告Google我們以前曾經為這個問題談論過你說這些跨國公司的大型網站\n\n05:12.513 --> 05:31.614\n現在是我們如果告訴他他就願意下架因為有那個法律規定之後是不是這樣是也是在行政院的督導協調之下我們在今年六月底也是謝謝大院參議會委員支持《投信投顧法》70條修正那現在有法源了那其實\n\n05:33.556 --> 06:00.657\n昨天那個消息其實我們了解謝董事長的這個訊息我們自己在政企局自己本身透過自己的管道看到謝先生被冒用我們有跟這個刑事局跟GoogleMeta叫他下架我們的周邊單位從網路資訊上搜尋也有謝先生的被冒用的情況我們也每天都有通知警政單位去同意去處理這個事情\n\n06:01.678 --> 06:08.896\n只是說我們雖然有做過這些動作後面又有新的這個冒用的這個情況發生那如果昨天這個事情\n\n06:09.980 --> 06:35.777\n正常來講你們通知了之後通知了Google之後他多久會下架他應該最晚一天之內24小時之內就要下架好那希望我是這個是真的很痛苦因為只要是知名人士每一個都有被冒用每一個都有被這樣子的風險當然因為謝老師他在財經領域然後他又是這麼高知名度的人物他受害的可能性很高其實很多公眾人物都有這樣受害的經驗那\n\n06:38.547 --> 06:49.454\n不知道為什麼我們經過這麼多的努力宣傳這麼多努力的這樣子的講還有這麼多人願意相信這些東西這個到底是問題的環節到底是出在哪裡\n\n06:52.366 --> 07:09.476\n因為如果說前幾年我們低利率環境可能讓投資人有一些想法不過我覺得我們不斷地在宣導包括我自己上禮拜也去大學也去跟學生宣導要求他們注意這方面不要輕易受騙我想我們會不斷地繼續努力\n\n07:10.296 --> 07:24.254\n好那就回到今天的問題了存網營事實上設立到現在到今年的六月是三家加起來累虧是66億台幣嘛對不對是那現在已經是年底了那第三季有比較好嗎\n\n07:25.458 --> 07:46.271\n今年的第三季我目前沒有第三季的資料不過看起來應該今年還是有增資有一兩家公司都有辦理增資所以很合理的推算第三季也可能還是繼續累虧啦第四季恐怕也不是那麼樂觀你有沒有什麼樣的想法因為當初這個存網營的設計是認為說他幾年之後\n\n07:48.812 --> 08:16.125\n就能開始賺錢嘛其實他要負擔的人力成本什麼東西都是比較低的他在某一方面是有優勢那當然現在做起來好像跟我們當初這個規劃還有設計的有點距離那我相信說前面幾年是因為有疫情的關係那現在已經社會恢復正常了如何跟他們了解問題到底發生在哪裡啊怎麼樣辦法能不能夠\n\n08:17.325 --> 08:39.724\n要了解他們真正虧損的真實的原因是什麼擴大業務比方說你吸收的存款怎麼把它去待放然後增加很多以手續費收入為主的一些業務我今天在報告中也提到那是不是會有狀況就是說要去三加嘛所以我為了要增加競爭力所以我就手續費的部分我盡量給予說減少\n\n08:41.505 --> 09:03.274\n或是給予折扣這樣會不會比另外譬如說我某一家我就給特別的折扣我比另外兩家就更有吸引力會有產生這樣的競爭的狀況嗎這個其實我們在發布記得在全網營設立第一家設立之前發布新聞稿就有提到就是說當然它有競爭的優勢可是也不能夠用競爭的優勢不斷影響市場的秩序\n\n09:05.615 --> 09:21.736\n這部分要兼顧就像以前網路下單的證券商他曾經把手續費折扣到很低後來工會也不同意你們也不同意類似的狀況他可以有他的優勢可是不能夠影響市場秩序\n\n09:23.098 --> 09:41.896\n那另外這個會不會是跟民眾的消費習慣有關因為大部分的企業還有個人都還是習慣在現在既有的這些銀行的體系裡面去取得這個融資或是去存放我覺得第一個從國外的經驗來講像英國的一個銀行他也是五年之後才開始水一兩瓶了\n\n09:42.096 --> 10:05.388\n那有的存網營到目前也沒有獲利這個需要一些時間那另外一方面消費者的行為上面跟業務的開放跟擴大上面都要齊頭並進去努力我想我們非常了解委員的期待也了解社會的期待我們不斷的也在跟存網營溝通能夠幫他們做什麼開放什麼我們都在努力\n\n10:06.288 --> 10:33.295\n既然設立了我們就希望他能夠茁壯能夠走得健全但是我還是回到今天問題的第一點我覺得這個虛擬貨幣的事情還要真的是要再多一些的觀察跟思考因為這個將來如果要繼續存在影響很大我本身認為這個虛擬貨幣本身就是一個很大的很有疑問的東西啦鮑委員我跟您一樣同時持的審慎的態度不過這是一個\n\n10:34.963 --> 10:49.771\n國際間都投資是一個事實我們還是必須要從投資人保護的角度去處理以前最大的靠山是中國眼看了中國的經濟就快完蛋了所以現在很多虛擬貨幣的交易所各式各樣的交易還有虛擬貨幣本身都在出問題\n\n10:51.102 --> 11:05.267\n所以我是覺得這個東西還是再思考再觀察我們非常的審慎一方面要讓民眾有一個合法的管道可以投資一方面要保護投資人這個部分我們會努力好謝謝謝謝委員好謝謝接下來請賴世保賴委員上台質詢\n\n","segments":[{"start":6.778,"end":35.714,"text":"主席麻煩請金管會黃主委請黃主委上台備選是 委員長主委早我今天看到幾個問題想要跟你請教就是今天的媒體有報導說這個中國借選那中國借選的可能性很高加上大量的資訊可能最後都會氾濫其中這個借選有一個工具"},{"start":36.653,"end":65.976,"text":"他認為是虛擬貨幣要求這個國安跟檢調單位要盯緊這個虛擬貨幣的這個交易說虛擬貨幣這個東西當然是隨著科技的發展發達好像新的東西然後很多人就會去接受可是他引申的弊端也實在是非常的多像這個又變成一個簡單來講也是另外一種洗錢他要支付他不能夠透過人民幣支付"},{"start":66.98,"end":80.942,"text":"那不能夠透過這個換匯的支付他就用虛擬貨幣來支付也達到他要支付的目的啊所以這個問題不知道你怎麼看台灣到底對這個虛擬貨幣的管理到底應該要到什麼樣的程度"},{"start":82.306,"end":100.22,"text":"謝謝委員指導,我想幾年前法務部在協調相關主管機關的時候就責成金管會作為虛擬資產,尤其是屬於支付性質、投資性質的洗錢房制主管機關所以對業者我們就要求他填去洗錢房制的遵循的聲明書"},{"start":101.341,"end":120.772,"text":"今年年初行政院指示金管會作為虛擬資產投資跟支付性質的主管機關我們在九月份發布指導原則現在相關業者的平台業者應該在年底前會成立工會我們在目前來講明年應該進一步就可以把我們指導原則跟工會的"},{"start":122.853,"end":151.019,"text":"自律規範去做一個結合這部分還有包括檢察局這邊也有已經有前一段時間有做過訪查現在開始規劃去檢查這是目前我們正在做的事情主委你這樣講我知道你們很努力但是那個願意檯面上話檯面話願意參加工會願意遵守規律的這些的廠商一般是比較優良的廠商比較願意遵守你規範的這個"},{"start":154.012,"end":174.65,"text":"這個虛擬貨幣的業者但是不來參加公會的他就不存在嗎這些故意在扯爛路的他就不存在嗎千萬不要變成說我是管我管的道導因為願意讓你管的 願意供自律的 願意用這樣的標準來做的基本上我們還是稍微比較信任"},{"start":175.54,"end":184.926,"text":"那些躲在陽光底下根本就沒有參加公會根本就一個沒有跟你登記你也不知道的他也在做交易那怎麼辦"},{"start":186.963,"end":214.031,"text":"其實這個在各行業都有合法跟非法的這種情況那我們從過去這兩年包括美國的跟香港的這些虛弊包括日本這些倒閉的事情已經多次提醒我們的投資人要跟合法的平台業者去往來當然我們沒辦法說防止每個人不跟非法的業者去往來那只能不斷的去去宣導去溝通對 那我想如果要借選"},{"start":215.111,"end":230.447,"text":"透過虛擬貨幣這樣的通路來做借選的支付工具的話他當然不可能走檯面上的合法的這些業者不可能走有參加工會的這些自律的業者"},{"start":231.428,"end":259.667,"text":"所以我在問的是說我們台灣到底像我其實我一直對虛擬貨幣的這個把它合法化的交易我一直是抱持著有一些疑慮但是如果政府機關真的要做的時候盡量擴大納入管理那如何去嚴懲這一些根本就不接根本也不參加自律根本也不遵守這個規範甚至是別人借選的工具的這些廠商要如何來處理是比較急迫的問題"},{"start":261.285,"end":286.68,"text":"這部分其實我們不論跟法務部或是跟相關檢調單位其實也都有在溝通包括洗房法這方面在處理另外第二個問題是昨天我看到謝金河老師他的Facebook上面他在痛斥Google去接受廣告然後又有人冒用他的名義"},{"start":288.24,"end":304.909,"text":"然後又在開設這些所謂的股市詐騙類似股友社這類的東西他還表明說Google如果再不改進他要控告Google我們以前曾經為這個問題談論過你說這些跨國公司的大型網站"},{"start":312.513,"end":331.614,"text":"現在是我們如果告訴他 他就願意下架因為有那個法律規定之後 是不是這樣是 也是在行政院的督導協調之下我們在今年六月底也是謝謝大院 參議會委員支持《投信投顧法》70條修正那現在有法源了 那其實"},{"start":333.556,"end":360.657,"text":"昨天那個消息其實我們了解謝董事長的這個訊息我們自己在政企局自己本身透過自己的管道看到謝先生被冒用我們有跟這個刑事局跟Google Meta叫他下架我們的周邊單位從網路資訊上搜尋也有謝先生的被冒用的情況我們也每天都有通知警政單位去同意去處理這個事情"},{"start":361.678,"end":368.896,"text":"只是說我們雖然有做過這些動作後面又有新的這個冒用的這個情況發生那如果昨天這個事情"},{"start":369.98,"end":395.777,"text":"正常來講你們通知了之後通知了Google之後他多久會下架他應該最晚一天之內24小時之內就要下架好那希望我是這個是真的很痛苦因為只要是知名人士每一個都有被冒用每一個都有被這樣子的風險當然因為謝老師他在財經領域然後他又是這麼高知名度的人物他受害的可能性很高其實很多公眾人物都有這樣受害的經驗那"},{"start":398.547,"end":409.454,"text":"不知道為什麼我們經過這麼多的努力宣傳這麼多努力的這樣子的講還有這麼多人願意相信這些東西這個到底是問題的環節到底是出在哪裡"},{"start":412.366,"end":429.476,"text":"因為如果說前幾年我們低利率環境可能讓投資人有一些想法不過我覺得我們不斷地在宣導包括我自己上禮拜也去大學也去跟學生宣導要求他們注意這方面不要輕易受騙我想我們會不斷地繼續努力"},{"start":430.296,"end":444.254,"text":"好 那就回到今天的問題了存網營事實上設立到現在到今年的六月是三家加起來累虧是66億台幣嘛對不對是那現在已經是年底了那第三季有比較好嗎"},{"start":445.458,"end":466.271,"text":"今年的第三季我目前沒有第三季的資料不過看起來應該今年還是有增資有一兩家公司都有辦理增資所以很合理的推算第三季也可能還是繼續累虧啦第四季恐怕也不是那麼樂觀你有沒有什麼樣的想法因為當初這個存網營的設計是認為說他幾年之後"},{"start":468.812,"end":496.125,"text":"就能開始賺錢嘛其實他要負擔的人力成本什麼東西都是比較低的他在某一方面是有優勢那當然現在做起來好像跟我們當初這個規劃還有設計的有點距離那我相信說前面幾年是因為有疫情的關係那現在已經社會恢復正常了如何跟他們了解問題到底發生在哪裡啊怎麼樣辦法能不能夠"},{"start":497.325,"end":519.724,"text":"要了解他們真正虧損的真實的原因是什麼擴大業務 比方說你吸收的存款怎麼把它去待放然後增加很多以手續費收入為主的一些業務我今天在報告中也提到那是不是會有狀況就是說要去三加嘛所以我為了要增加競爭力所以我就手續費的部分我盡量給予說減少"},{"start":521.505,"end":543.274,"text":"或是給予折扣 這樣會不會比另外 譬如說我某一家我就給特別的折扣我比另外兩家就更有吸引力 會有產生這樣的競爭的狀況嗎這個其實我們在發布 記得在全網營設立第一家設立之前發布新聞稿就有提到就是說當然它有競爭的優勢 可是也不能夠用競爭的優勢不斷影響市場的秩序"},{"start":545.615,"end":561.736,"text":"這部分要兼顧就像以前網路下單的證券商他曾經把手續費折扣到很低後來工會也不同意你們也不同意類似的狀況他可以有他的優勢可是不能夠影響市場秩序"},{"start":563.098,"end":581.896,"text":"那另外這個會不會是跟民眾的消費習慣有關因為大部分的企業還有個人都還是習慣在現在既有的這些銀行的體系裡面去取得這個融資或是去存放我覺得第一個從國外的經驗來講像英國的一個銀行他也是五年之後才開始水一兩瓶了"},{"start":582.096,"end":605.388,"text":"那有的存網營到目前也沒有獲利這個需要一些時間那另外一方面消費者的行為上面跟業務的開放跟擴大上面都要齊頭並進去努力我想我們非常了解委員的期待也了解社會的期待我們不斷的也在跟存網營溝通能夠幫他們做什麼開放什麼我們都在努力"},{"start":606.288,"end":633.295,"text":"既然設立了我們就希望他能夠茁壯能夠走得健全但是我還是回到今天問題的第一點我覺得這個虛擬貨幣的事情還要真的是要再多一些的觀察跟思考因為這個將來如果要繼續存在影響很大我本身認為這個虛擬貨幣本身就是一個很大的很有疑問的東西啦鮑委員我跟您一樣同時持的審慎的態度不過這是一個"},{"start":634.963,"end":649.771,"text":"國際間都投資是一個事實我們還是必須要從投資人保護的角度去處理以前最大的靠山是中國眼看了中國的經濟就快完蛋了所以現在很多虛擬貨幣的交易所各式各樣的交易還有虛擬貨幣本身都在出問題"},{"start":651.102,"end":665.267,"text":"所以我是覺得這個東西還是再思考再觀察我們非常的審慎一方面要讓民眾有一個合法的管道可以投資一方面要保護投資人這個部分我們會努力好 謝謝謝謝委員好 謝謝接下來請賴世保賴委員上台質詢"}]}}}}