{"id":148946,"url":"https://ivod.ly.gov.tw/Play/Clip/1M/148946","video_url":"https://ivod-lyvod.cdn.hinet.net/vod_1/_definst_/mp4:1MClips/a0ee4ec253a72029dd3d3dbef777a57e92351fad24fff329c986728e607a032260c7ea4c0278d45c5ea18f28b6918d91.mp4/playlist.m3u8","委員名稱":"陳以信","委員發言時間":"09:41:35 - 09:54:23","影片長度":"00:12:48","會議時間":"2023-12-11T09:00:00+08:00","會議名稱":"立法院第10屆第8會期外交及國防、經濟委員會第1次聯席會議（事由：一、邀請國防部部長報告「兵役延長配套與整備現況及國防學士班與國軍現行各人才招募管道精進作為」，併請內政部、教育部、勞動部列席，並備質詢。\n二、審查本院國民黨黨團擬具「國防產業發展條例第十條條文修正草案」案。\n三、審查本院委員邱志偉等22人擬具「國防產業發展條例第十條及第十九條條文修正草案」案。）","meet":{"tmpMeeting":null,"title":"立法院第10屆第8會期外交及國防、經濟委員會第1次聯席會議","type":"聯席會議","term":10,"sessionPeriod":8,"sessionTimes":1,"committees":[35,19],"id":"聯席會議-10-8-35,19-1"},"date":"2023-12-11","duration":768,"end_time":"2023-12-11T09:54:23+08:00","start_time":"2023-12-11T09:41:35+08:00","features":["gazette"],"type":"Clip","gazette":{"lineno":181,"blocks":[["陳委員以信：（9時41分）謝謝召委。是不是請邱部長？"],["主席：邱部長請。"],["邱部長國正：陳委員好。"],["陳委員以信：部長早安，你是陸軍出身嘛，對不對？"],["邱部長國正：是。"],["陳委員以信：你知不知道AR-15的步槍？"],["邱部長國正：AR-15可能很早期的，我沒有研究。"],["陳委員以信：很早期啊，那你有沒有用過？你沒打過？"],["邱部長國正：沒有。"],["陳委員以信：你知不知道這一款步槍1分鐘可以打多少子彈？"],["邱部長國正：這個我沒有涉獵，很抱歉。"],["陳委員以信：可以打750發，1秒鐘就可以打12發，這個步槍火力算強吧？"],["邱部長國正：算很強。"],["陳委員以信：我為什麼要問你這個你知道嗎？上個禮拜在美國總統的共和黨初選辯論裡面，幾位總統候選人都談到臺灣問題，當然他們對於美國要協助臺灣自我防衛都有一致的看法，其中也有一位候選人就表示要怎麼樣保護臺灣？他認為美國步槍協會（NRA）應該要到臺灣設分處，而且應該大量提供AR-15的自動步槍給臺灣的每一個人，讓他們用AR-15的步槍來保護自己。","部長，你對於美國總統候選人這樣的一個論點，你身為我們的國防部長，你是什麼樣的立場？"],["邱部長國正：我跟委員報告，這議題有時候一扯到選舉的話有點敏感，但我對這種問題的看法，基本上一個國家的國防要自己來防衛，不能夠仰賴其他國家，其他國家對我們有所幫助我們當然樂見，但這個幫助未必要像剛剛委員講的，到臺灣來成立一個什麼俱樂部，還提供什麼槍枝。"],["陳委員以信：這不是俱樂部，它的步槍協會其實就是廣發步槍的。"],["邱部長國正：就算是一個步槍協會好了，AR這可能是自動步槍（auto rifle）這一類，我是沒有用過，但是它提供各種武器給我們以後，我們要衡量，加上我們有我們的裝備，你突然間要送裝備來，各位，這就不叫戰力，要靠外援拿到才有的，我不認為它是個戰力。"],["陳委員以信：部長，我對你的回答其實不是很滿意，為什麼？當然你今天要求我們是以國軍正規軍的兵力來面對臺海防衛作戰，但是現在廣發步槍給每一個人，甚至之前還有美國前國安顧問認為要廣設刺針飛彈在每個派出所，必要的時候統統拿出來，全民皆兵。部長，全民皆兵是不是你的國防政策？你要從這個角度來思考啊！並不是說今天拿把槍來、拿個飛彈來，人民可以用，這個不是你們要的，難道你希望全民皆，然後全民用這個？在這種情況之下，甚至依戰爭法、國際法是有所問題的。"],["邱部長國正：我跟委員報告，所謂全民皆兵在我的界定就是全民接受過這種訓練以後，他最起碼知道如何自我防衛……"],["陳委員以信：這個當然是全民國防嘛。"],["邱部長國正：對。"],["陳委員以信：全民國防跟全民皆兵是不一樣的啦。"],["邱部長國正：全民皆兵是服役，大家統統要當兵，我不做這個解讀。"],["陳委員以信：不是，他現在是每人一把自動步槍，每個人都可以拿了刺針飛彈就開始打。"],["邱部長國正：我跟委員報告，這是他的一個提議，可能的意見我也聽了很多……"],["陳委員以信：你就說是不是你的國防政策嘛！身為部長，你就說這是不是你的國防政策，臺灣的國防政策該不該如此？"],["邱部長國正：我們沒有這種政策。"],["陳委員以信：不是你的國防政策嘛！"],["邱部長國正：絕對沒有這種政策。"],["陳委員以信：這不是臺灣的國防政策，我就是要你嚴格表達這樣的立場嘛！"],["邱部長國正：是，我現在不知道委員……"],["陳委員以信：美國人關心很多，但是不切實際，全民皆兵每個人拿一把步槍，拿到刺針飛彈就能射，這不是我們臺海防衛作戰的構想，至少國家把這立場講清楚。","我現在要進到下一個問題，我們現在的確在國防整備上面不只全民國防加強，明年國軍的訓練都增加了，不只我們增加了海岸守備旅，我們增加了後備旅。現在我們也看到上面寫說入伍的時候要增加震撼教育，我要問這個震撼教育什麼時候開始、你要怎麼進行？"],["邱部長國正：事實上現在已經在做了，現在4個月役期的他們也在做。"],["陳委員以信：也在做震撼教育嗎？現在也有震撼教育？"],["邱部長國正：有在做。"],["陳委員以信：是多少時間、多少彈藥在那個地方？多震撼？"],["邱部長國正：他在期末入伍完畢之前，每個兵都要經過這個訓練。"],["陳委員以信：現在這個訓練是怎麼樣？多長、彈藥多少、有多震撼、跟以前一不一樣？"],["張次長俊志：跟委員報告，震撼教育等於是一個戰鬥綜合教練的演練，是模擬實戰的狀況，以TNT爆破還有機槍空包彈模擬的狀況。"],["陳委員以信：這個我知道，我在問你量，現在這個彈藥跟過去比是比較少、還是比較多、還是一樣？這中間大概時間要多長、有多震撼嘛？我要問的是這個，你們不是說都規劃好，而且開始進行了嗎？"],["張次長俊志：對，都規劃好，我們今年已經在實施震撼教育了。"],["陳委員以信：細節都不知道就對了？這個震撼教育……"],["張次長俊志：細節我知道，第一個，它沒有實施實彈，是以機槍空包彈、TNT模擬在戰場的情況。"],["陳委員以信：空包彈、TNT多少？長度多長？"],["張次長俊志：長度依照場地我們會有一個標準，它是以障礙物的設置、狀況處置的項次、還有距離來規劃。"],["陳委員以信：你講的都太模糊，我要求你們書面上來跟我們說明這到底是怎麼樣進行。"],["張次長俊志：是，我們會再以圖示的方式跟您報告。"],["陳委員以信：再來，我們現在這種震撼教育非常重要的就是安全，我們不希望在非戰爭時期有任何傷亡。這一種訓練場是在專用的訓練場上面訓練嗎？還是說今天在每個部隊都可以進行？"],["張次長俊志：新訓中心有一個震撼教練場。"],["陳委員以信：現在全國有多少座教練場？"],["張次長俊志：每一個新訓單位都有。"],["陳委員以信：每一個新訓單位都有，總數多少？"],["張次長俊志：一個概略是14座。"],["陳委員以信：14座？"],["張次長俊志：是。"],["陳委員以信：所以他們進行的時候都要在教練場才能進行？"],["張次長俊志：他們進行一定要在教練場，而且有相關防護規定的要求。"],["陳委員以信：好，那我再問，除了這一個新兵的震撼教育，之前應該會有一些安全上面的教育、安全上面的指導吧？這個應該都會做吧？"],["張次長俊志：當然都有，我們在實施之前，幹部也要推演，還要跟測驗的官兵做相關的安全……"],["陳委員以信：部長，你們做一個書面上的說明好不好？"],["張次長俊志：是。"],["陳委員以信：提交本委員會，大家來參考，瞭解你們這個震撼教育新的作法怎麼做，好不好？"],["張次長俊志：好，瞭解。"],["陳委員以信：我是問部長，部長好不好？"],["邱部長國正：我跟委員報告，這樣好不好，我們圖示做之前我們要做哪些工作，在一張圖上表達清楚，好不好？"],["陳委員以信：請給一個清楚的書面報告跟本委員會說明。"],["邱部長國正：是。"],["陳委員以信：接著我要再問的是你們明年要成立的部分，我知道你們在陸軍有海岸守備旅，後備指揮部也有後備旅，然後憲兵也有守衛營，明年有多少新增的要編成？就是海岸守備這些，有沒有？"],["陳參謀長建義：跟委員報告，步兵的守備旅，它是有11個守備旅，它是按照期程來做，一直到117年，陸續的……"],["陳委員以信：你們要編成幾個？"],["陳參謀長建義：它是同步在進行，不會是一次把一個旅……，我們考量到兵的來源……"],["陳委員以信：你們是11個同時開始編？"],["陳參謀長建義：它都有按照每年……"],["陳委員以信：什麼時候會成軍？明年有沒有成軍的？"],["陳參謀長建義：它編到一定的階段就會先有一定的成軍。"],["陳委員以信：你怎麼都說得模模糊糊，都沒有一個答案？"],["陳參謀長建義：不是，因為這個有一個比較完整和詳細的規劃，如果委員要的話，我們可以做一個書面向您報告。"],["陳委員以信：基本上，這些應該都是能夠在國會殿堂跟大家說明的事情……"],["陳參謀長建義：對。"],["陳委員以信：但聽起來都模模糊糊的，都不知道這到底是怎麼樣。第一個，我也要求這個要跟我們來做說明，好不好？到底你這些編成是怎麼樣？","現在我的最後一個問題，3+1彈性修業方案，我們上個會期、之前有討論過，大學3+1的彈性修業方案，目前有多少人申請？有多少大學配合？"],["鄧司長克雄：目前有5位。"],["陳委員以信：目前只有5位？"],["鄧司長克雄：是。"],["陳委員以信：3+1彈性修業方案，目前只有5位？"],["鄧司長克雄：是，第一梯次。"],["陳委員以信：我們大費周章辦到現在只有5位？"],["鄧司長克雄：是。"],["陳委員以信：為什麼只有5位？因為這個設計不良，就像我們當初說的，有很多的問題，包括大學很難配合，個人很難配合，是不是這樣子？3+1彈性修業方案，只有5位。"],["鄧司長克雄：跟委員報告，當初教育部在徵詢意願的時候，有46位學生表達有意願，但目前實際提出申請的只有5位，後續可能他們會視他們的需要提出申請。"],["陳委員以信：會申請就會申請，不會申請就不會申請了啦！"],["鄧司長克雄：而且跟委員報告，這個……"],["陳委員以信：我要問你現在問題在哪裡，當初你們提出來的時候，我們就舉出很多問題了，我那時候就提出了，這樣的一個作法，大學修業大量的減少，而且它裡面有必修什麼擋來擋去，學校會不會為了你又加開暑修，這些東西都很麻煩，而且這種東西男性、女性還不一樣，如果大學真的3年可以唸完，乾脆很多人都可以申請3年唸完嘛！又不是只有當兵的人才可以3年唸完。我當時候就舉出很多問題了，現在我們就看到，只有5個來申請，所以我才問你，你們現在開始實際做了，你們碰到的問題在哪裡呢？部長，回答一下吧！"],["邱部長國正：教育部的部分就由教育部來……"],["梁副司長學政：跟委員報告，教育部這邊做個說明，當然我們已經有頒布那個指引了，主要就是希望同學在不影響他畢業時間的情況下進行，就是剛才委員所講的3+1，所以我們會給他更多的修業彈性，比如說他原來在學校……"],["陳委員以信：會有多少學校配合？這很難啦！你現在一下要將4年擠成3年，然後大家為了你要當兵的這幾個人去調學程，哪有那麼簡單！你現在就只有5個人，我看這5個人還不是同一間大學，每個大學大概就一個人，一個人的話，它為了你去調暑期的學分、去調這些的必修、這些的擋修，我說沒有那麼容易啊！我們從一開始的時候就講過了，現在幾個學校在辦？它有辦法為學生調嗎？"],["梁副司長學政：跟委員報告，之前6月頒布指引以後，7月我們就已經跟學校做說明會，讓學校在今年9月15號開始的這個學期，把相關的學則、教務、章程都修正，包括剛才講的，增加學期當中修業的學分數，包括暑修或者是跨校可以來選修等等……"],["陳委員以信：我問你現在這5個學生分布在幾個學校？"],["梁副司長學政：跟委員報告，目前因為是在尊重學生意願的情況下，大概有7個學校、有46個學生來申請……"],["陳委員以信：不是，我們剛剛講只有5個來申請，你的訊息比國防部還要落後，他剛剛就說5個而已。"],["梁副司長學政：46個是報名，有意願……"],["陳委員以信：但是只有5個申請啊！"],["梁副司長學政：剛才國防部說有5個是實際上提出來……"],["陳委員以信：對啊！前面只是表達意願，但是現在只有5個實際提出來，只有這5個人的學校要去為他們調整嘛！"],["梁副司長學政：不是，所有的學校都要事先調整，以因應……"],["陳委員以信：那我問你，現在有多少學校調整？"],["梁副司長學政：現在幾乎大部分的學校都已經做完調整了。"],["陳委員以信：只是把這個命令、準則公布，其他課程都有調整嗎？"],["梁副司長學政：對，都要做相應的調整。"],["陳委員以信：不是都要做，而是都做了嗎？"],["梁副司長學政：學校從這個學期就陸續開始全部都……"],["陳委員以信：來！來！來！我們也要求教育部針對3+1這方案的實際執行提交書面報告來給本委員會看，因為我們當初就質疑過這個問題了，你現在執意要做……"],["主席：教育部副司長要不要上臺？"],["陳委員以信：這位就是了。"],["梁副司長學政：對。"],["陳委員以信：對！這一位就是教育部的官員，所以拜託召委，請他們提出一個書面報告，說明到底這怎麼做、有多少能夠配合，好不好？"],["梁副司長學政：是。"],["邱部長國正：謝謝委員。"],["主席：謝謝陳委員。接下來請賴瑞隆委員詢答。"]],"agenda":{"page_end":244,"meet_id":"聯席會議-10-8-35,19-1","speakers":["廖婉汝","李德維","林昶佐","陳亭妃","陳以信","賴瑞隆","王定宇","楊瓊瓔","吳斯懷","江啟臣","林靜儀","何志偉","劉世芳","羅致政","蔡適應","邱臣遠","陳椒華","陳明文","蔡易餘","馬文君","趙天麟","陳超明"],"page_start":157,"meetingDate":["2023-12-11"],"gazette_id":"1130201","agenda_lcidc_ids":["1130201_00003"],"meet_name":"立法院第10屆第8會期外交及國防、經濟委員會第1次聯席會議紀錄","content":"一、邀請國防部部長報告「兵役延長配套與整備現況及國防學士班與國軍現行各人才招募管道精\n進作為」，並備質詢；二、審查本院國民黨黨團擬具「國防產業發展條例第十條條文修正草案」\n案；三、審查本院委員邱志偉等22人擬具「國防產業發展條例第十條及第十九條條文修正草案」\n案","agenda_id":"1130201_00002"}},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\"start\": 678.646, \"end\": 678.866, \"score\": 0.962}, {\"word\": \"等\", \"start\": 678.866, \"end\": 679.046, \"score\": 0.979}, {\"word\": \"等\", \"start\": 679.046, \"end\": 679.566, \"score\": 0.932}, {\"word\": \"。\"}, {\"word\": \"我\", \"start\": 679.566, \"end\": 679.667, \"score\": 0.799}, {\"word\": \"問\"}, {\"word\": \"你\", \"start\": 679.667, \"end\": 679.767, \"score\": 0.798}, {\"word\": \"現\"}, {\"word\": \"在\", \"start\": 679.767, \"end\": 679.787, \"score\": 0.0}, {\"word\": \"這\"}, {\"word\": \"五\", \"start\": 679.787, \"end\": 679.807, \"score\": 0.0}, {\"word\": \"個\"}, {\"word\": \"學\", \"start\": 679.807, \"end\": 679.887, \"score\": 0.749}, {\"word\": \"生\", \"start\": 679.887, \"end\": 679.927, \"score\": 0.499}, {\"word\": \"分\", \"start\": 679.927, \"end\": 679.967, \"score\": 0.494}, {\"word\": \"佈\"}, {\"word\": \"在\", \"start\": 679.967, \"end\": 680.127, \"score\": 0.978}, {\"word\": \"幾\"}, {\"word\": \"個\"}, {\"word\": \"學\", \"start\": 680.127, \"end\": 680.207, \"score\": 0.749}, {\"word\": \"校\", \"start\": 680.207, \"end\": 680.227, \"score\": 0.0}, {\"word\": \"?\"}]}, {\"start\": 683.306, \"end\": 698.98, \"text\": \"跟我們報告目前因為是在尊重學生的意願的情況下大概目前有7個學校有46個學生來申請不是我們剛剛講只有5個申請嘛你的訊息比國防部還要落後他剛剛就說5個而已了46個是報名但是只有5個申請啊\", \"words\": [{\"word\": \"跟\", \"start\": 683.306, \"end\": 683.466, \"score\": 0.902}, {\"word\": \"我\", \"start\": 683.466, \"end\": 683.746, \"score\": 0.857}, {\"word\": \"們\"}, {\"word\": \"報\"}, {\"word\": \"告\", \"start\": 683.746, \"end\": 683.887, \"score\": 0.988}, {\"word\": \"目\", \"start\": 683.887, \"end\": 684.127, \"score\": 0.992}, {\"word\": \"前\", \"start\": 684.127, \"end\": 684.327, \"score\": 0.999}, {\"word\": \"因\", \"start\": 684.327, \"end\": 684.567, \"score\": 0.912}, {\"word\": \"為\"}, {\"word\": \"是\", \"start\": 684.567, \"end\": 684.667, \"score\": 0.8}, {\"word\": \"在\", \"start\": 684.667, \"end\": 684.827, \"score\": 0.894}, {\"word\": \"尊\", \"start\": 684.827, \"end\": 684.988, 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{\"word\": \"他\", \"start\": 695.056, \"end\": 695.396, \"score\": 0.92}, {\"word\": \"剛\"}, {\"word\": \"剛\"}, {\"word\": \"就\", \"start\": 695.396, \"end\": 695.657, \"score\": 0.922}, {\"word\": \"說\"}, {\"word\": \"5\"}, {\"word\": \"個\"}, {\"word\": \"而\", \"start\": 695.657, \"end\": 696.037, \"score\": 0.894}, {\"word\": \"已\", \"start\": 696.037, \"end\": 696.157, \"score\": 0.818}, {\"word\": \"了\", \"start\": 696.157, \"end\": 698.439, \"score\": 0.934}, {\"word\": \"4\"}, {\"word\": \"6\"}, {\"word\": \"個\"}, {\"word\": \"是\", \"start\": 698.439, \"end\": 698.519, \"score\": 0.76}, {\"word\": \"報\"}, {\"word\": \"名\", \"start\": 698.519, \"end\": 698.559, \"score\": 0.5}, {\"word\": \"但\", \"start\": 698.559, \"end\": 698.619, \"score\": 0.667}, {\"word\": \"是\", \"start\": 698.619, \"end\": 698.659, \"score\": 0.497}, {\"word\": \"只\", \"start\": 698.659, \"end\": 698.759, \"score\": 0.8}, {\"word\": \"有\", \"start\": 698.759, \"end\": 698.839, \"score\": 0.75}, {\"word\": \"5\"}, {\"word\": \"個\"}, {\"word\": \"申\", \"start\": 698.839, \"end\": 698.959, \"score\": 0.833}, {\"word\": \"請\"}, {\"word\": \"啊\", \"start\": 698.959, \"end\": 698.98, \"score\": 0.0}]}, {\"start\": 704.363, \"end\": 732.159, \"text\": \"現在剛才光佈說目前已經有就是五個是實際上提出來因為他們對啊所以是前面只是表達一個意願但是現在只有五個實際提出來只有這五個人的學校要去為他們做調整嗎不是所有的學校都要先做一個事先做一個調整以因應那我問你現在這些學校有多少學校做調整啊現在我們幾乎大部分的學校都已經做完調整了那只是把這個命令這個準則公佈啊他其他課程都有做調整嗎對都要做相應的調整不是都要做都做了嗎\", \"words\": [{\"word\": \"現\"}, {\"word\": \"在\", \"start\": 704.363, \"end\": 704.563, \"score\": 0.832}, {\"word\": \"剛\"}, {\"word\": \"才\", \"start\": 704.563, \"end\": 705.183, \"score\": 0.953}, {\"word\": \"光\", \"start\": 705.183, \"end\": 705.644, \"score\": 0.873}, {\"word\": \"佈\"}, {\"word\": \"說\"}, {\"word\": \"目\", \"start\": 705.644, \"end\": 705.844, \"score\": 0.904}, {\"word\": \"前\", \"start\": 705.844, \"end\": 705.984, \"score\": 0.972}, {\"word\": \"已\", \"start\": 705.984, \"end\": 706.244, \"score\": 0.909}, {\"word\": \"經\"}, {\"word\": 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--> 00:01:50,617\n我跟委員報告,這一題有時候一撤到選舉有點敏感,但我對這種問題的看法講說基本上一個國家它是以國防的能力要自己來做一個防衛,不能夠仰賴其他國家都要有所幫助,我們當然樂見,但這個幫助未必要像剛剛委員講的,到台灣來成立一個俱樂部,提供槍支\n\n6\n00:01:51,277 --> 00:02:09,837\n不是俱乐部,它的步枪协会其实是广发步枪的。就算是一个步枪协会好了,AR就好了,可能是自动步枪嘛,autorifle这一类。我是没有用过,但是各种武器它提供给我们以后,我们要衡量,加上我们有我们的装备,你突然另外一个装备来,\n\n7\n00:02:10,831 --> 00:02:39,856\n那各位我們這個不叫戰力喔要靠外援拿到才有的我不認為它是個戰力部長我對你的回答其實不甚滿意為什麼因為當然你今天要求我們自己國軍的正規軍力的兵力來面對台海防衛作戰但是現在廣發步槍給每一個人甚至之前還有美國前國安顧問認為要廣射次增飛彈在每個派出所必要的時候通通拿出來全民接兵\n\n8\n00:02:41,087 --> 00:03:05,816\n部長全民接兵是不是你的國防政策你要從這個角度來思考啊今天並不是說今天你說今天拿把槍來拿個飛彈來人民可以用那這個不是你們要的難道你希望全民接兵然後全民用這個在這種情況之下甚至跟戰爭法跟國際法是有所問題的我跟委員報告\n\n9\n00:03:06,696 --> 00:03:31,044\n所以全民接兵在我的界定啊就是說全民接受過這種訓練以後他最起碼知道如何自我防衛這個當然是全民國防啊全民國防跟全民接兵是不一樣的啦全民接兵的話有點浮誘大家通常要當兵他現在是每人一把自動步槍每個人都可以拿著自爭飛彈就開始打\n\n10\n00:03:32,995 --> 00:04:02,455\n跟委員報告,這他是一個提議啊,我們想說有很多意見,我也聽到很多。我就說是不是你國防政策嘛。身為部長,你就說這是不是你的國防政策,台灣的國防政策,該不該如此。我們沒有,我們沒有這種政策。不是你的國防政策嘛,這不是台灣的國防政策,我就是要你嚴格表達這樣的一個立場嘛。是,我現在不知道委員要不要...我說美國人有很多的關心,但是不切實際。全民皆兵,每個人拿一把步槍,拿到自治分站就能射,這不是我們台海防衛作戰的構想。我們至少國家要把這立場講清楚。\n\n11\n00:04:03,215 --> 00:04:26,997\n但我現在要進到下一個問題就是說我們現在的確我們在國防整備上面不只全民國防加強我們明年的這個國軍的訓練也都增加了那不只我們增加了海岸守備旅我們增加了後備旅那現在我們也看到上面寫說入伍的時候要增加震撼教育那我要問這個震撼教育什麼時候開始你要怎麼進行\n\n12\n00:04:28,121 --> 00:04:45,925\n事實上我跟委員報告,現在已經在做了,現在四個月疫情,他們也在做也在做震撼教育嗎?現在也有震撼教育?有在做然後是多少的時間,然後多少的彈藥在那個地方?多震撼?他在期末要入完畢之前,每個兵都要經過這個訓練現在這個訓練是怎麼樣?多長?彈藥多少?有多震撼?跟你前一不一樣\n\n13\n00:04:52,950 --> 00:05:17,338\n跟委員報告震撼教育它等於說是一個戰鬥綜合教練的演練它是以模擬實戰的狀況它是以這個TNT的爆破還有機槍的空爆彈模擬的狀況我知道我在問你量現在這個彈藥跟過去是比較少還是比較多還是一樣然後這中間大概多長時間要多長有多震撼嘛\n\n14\n00:05:18,800 --> 00:05:30,870\n我要問的是這個,你們不是都規劃好而且開始進行嗎?對,我們今年已經在實施震撼教練了細節你都不知道就對了,第一個它沒有實施實彈它是以機槍的空炮彈,還有TNT模擬在戰場的一個景況\n\n15\n00:05:40,858 --> 00:06:04,474\n那長度要多長長度的話一到場地的話我們會有一個標準在這邊它是以障礙物的設置還有狀況的處置的相似還有距離來做一個規劃你講的都太模糊了我要求你們書面上來跟我們做說明這到底是怎麼樣進行我們現在這一種震撼教育非常重要就是安全我們不希望在非戰爭時期有任何的傷亡\n\n16\n00:06:06,835 --> 00:06:35,975\n那這種訓練場是在專有的訓練場上面訓練嗎還是說今天在每個部隊都可以進行是在新訓中心他有個正漢教練場那你現在全國有多少座訓練這個教練場每一個新訓單位他都有每一個新訓單位都有總數多少一個概略是14座所以他們進行的時候都要在這個教練場他們進行的時候一定要在教練場而且有相關的防護規定的要求好那我再問\n\n17\n00:06:36,915 --> 00:07:03,813\n除了這一個新兵的震撼教育那之前應該會有一些安全上面的一個教育安全上面的一個指導吧這個應該都會做吧報完都有我們在實施之前幹部也要做推演還有跟這個官兵都要測驗的官兵都要做相關的安逸規律律部長你們做一個書面上面的說明好不好提交本委員會大家來做參考了解你們這個震撼教育新的做法要怎麼做好不好好了解我是問部長部長好不好\n\n18\n00:07:04,253 --> 00:07:20,940\n我跟委員報告我們這樣好不好我們以圖示在這個做之前我們要做哪一個工作在一張圖上表達清楚一個清楚的書面報告跟本委員說明接著我要再問就是說你這個明年要成立我知道你們在\n\n19\n00:07:22,320 --> 00:07:33,387\n陸軍有海岸守備旅,後備指揮部也有後備旅然後憲兵也有守衛營明年新增有多少的邊層要邊層,海岸守備這些的海岸守備\n\n20\n00:07:37,842 --> 00:07:51,948\n公務員報告這個步兵的守備旅它是有11個守備旅那它是按照期程來一直到117年它有分陸續成立的明年要編成幾個\n\n21\n00:07:53,516 --> 00:08:08,437\n它是同步在進行同步在進行它不會是一次把一個旅我們考量到這個是說同步11個同時開始編它都有按照每年的那什麼時候會成軍明年有沒有成軍的它\n\n22\n00:08:09,498 --> 00:08:33,879\n編到一定的階段他就會先有一定的成軍怎麼問的都模模糊糊都沒有答案因為這個有一個比較完整和詳細的規劃如果委員要的話我們可以做一個書面的向您報告基本上這些都應該要是能夠在國會殿堂跟大家說明的資訊今天以來都模模糊糊的都不知道這到底是怎麼樣好不好第一個我也要求這樣最後我再問部長\n\n23\n00:08:34,600 --> 00:08:57,309\n我要求就是說這個要跟我們來做說明好不好到底你這個編程怎樣現在我要再問的就是說最後一個問題3加1彈性休業方案我們上個會期有討論過我們有討論之前吧那這個大學3加1的這個彈性休業方案目前有多少人申請有多少大學配合你上來講吧\n\n24\n00:08:59,946 --> 00:09:22,913\n目前只有五位三加一彈性修悅方案目前只有五位我們大肆大費周章辦到現在只有五位那為什麼只有五位因為這個設計不良就像我們當初說的有很多的問題大學很難以配合個人很難以配合是不是這樣子只有五位三加一彈性修悅方案只有五位\n\n25\n00:09:24,273 --> 00:09:46,580\n跟委員報告當初教育部在徵詢意願的時候有46位學生他表達有意願但目前提出實際提出申請的只有五位那後續應該陸續可能他們會是他們需要提出申請你現在會申請就會申請不會申請就不會申請了啦我要問你現在問題在哪裡我們當初你們在提出來的時候我們就舉出很多問題了我那時候就提出說這樣的一個做法\n\n26\n00:09:47,000 --> 00:10:14,284\n大學修業大量的一個減少而且它裡面有必修什麼擋來擋去學校會不會為了你又加開暑休這些東西都很麻煩而且這種東西男性女性還不一樣如果大學真的三年可以念完乾脆就很多人都可以申請三年念完嘛又不是只有當兵的人才可以三年念完當時又舉出很多問題了那現在我們就看只有五個申請所以我才問你那現在問題你們現在開始實際做了你們問題在哪裡咧回答一下吧部長\n\n27\n00:10:15,698 --> 00:10:42,193\n教育部教育部來跟委員報告教育部這邊做個說明當然我們就有頒布那個指引那主要就是希望同學在不影響他畢業的一個時間的情況下就剛才委員所講的三加一所以我們會給他更多的一個修業彈性譬如說他原來在學習所以有多少學校配合這很難啊你現在一下要四年擠成三年然後大家為了你要當兵的這幾個人去調學程當然那麼簡單你現在就五個人\n\n28\n00:10:42,833 --> 00:10:56,028\n我看這五個人還不是同一間大學每個大學只有一個人一個人的話他要為了你去調暑期的學分去調這些必修這些的檔修我說沒有那麼容易啊我們從一開始就講過啦現在幾個學校在辦啊他有辦法為學生調嗎\n\n29\n00:10:58,411 --> 00:11:20,227\n跟委員報告,現在之前我們就有跟在6月頒布指引後,7月就已經跟學校做說明會,讓學校在這個學期,就是今年9月10號開始這個學期,把相關的學責、教務章程都已經做修正,包括剛才講的說,增加學期當中的學分數啦,包括屬修,或者是跨校可以來選修等等。我問你現在這五個學生分佈在幾個學校?\n\n30\n00:11:23,306 --> 00:11:38,980\n跟我們報告目前因為是在尊重學生的意願的情況下大概目前有7個學校有46個學生來申請不是我們剛剛講只有5個申請嘛你的訊息比國防部還要落後他剛剛就說5個而已了46個是報名但是只有5個申請啊\n\n31\n00:11:44,363 --> 00:12:12,159\n現在剛才光佈說目前已經有就是五個是實際上提出來因為他們對啊所以是前面只是表達一個意願但是現在只有五個實際提出來只有這五個人的學校要去為他們做調整嗎不是所有的學校都要先做一個事先做一個調整以因應那我問你現在這些學校有多少學校做調整啊現在我們幾乎大部分的學校都已經做完調整了那只是把這個命令這個準則公佈啊他其他課程都有做調整嗎對都要做相應的調整不是都要做都做了嗎\n\n32\n00:12:13,333 --> 00:12:31,474\n就是學校在這個學期開始他就陸續開始都全部來來來我還也要求教育部針對3加1這個的方案的實際執行也提交一個書面報告提交書面報告來給我們本委員會來看因為我們當初就質疑過這個問題了你現在只要做教育部市長要不要上台\n\n33\n00:12:32,395 --> 00:12:36,118\n教育部副市長也到這位就是教育部的請他們提出書面的報告到底這怎麼做有多少能夠配合\n\n","tsv":"start\tend\ttext\n1850\t29022\t部長早安喔,你是陸軍出身嘛對不對?你知不知道AR-15的步槍?AR-15?那可能很早期的啦很早期喔,那你有沒有用過?你沒打?這一款步槍,你知不知道這一款步槍一分鐘可以打多少子彈?\n30458\t35201\t可以打750發,一秒鐘就可以打12發,這個火力算強吧?為什麼要問你這個你知道嗎?上個禮拜在美國總統的共和黨初選辯論裡面,幾位總統候選人都談到台灣問題\n53615\t77237\t那當然他們都對於美國要協助台灣自我防衛都有一致的看法但其中也有一位候選人他就表示要怎麼樣保護台灣他認為美國步槍協會NRI應該要到台灣設分處而且呢應該要大量提供AR-15的自動步槍給台灣每一個人讓他們用AR-15的步槍來保護\n78678\t86171\t自己部長你對於美國總統候選人這樣的一個論點你身為我們的國防部長你是什麼樣的一個立場\n87045\t110617\t我跟委員報告,這一題有時候一撤到選舉有點敏感,但我對這種問題的看法講說基本上一個國家它是以國防的能力要自己來做一個防衛,不能夠仰賴其他國家都要有所幫助,我們當然樂見,但這個幫助未必要像剛剛委員講的,到台灣來成立一個俱樂部,提供槍支\n111277\t129837\t不是俱乐部,它的步枪协会其实是广发步枪的。就算是一个步枪协会好了,AR就好了,可能是自动步枪嘛,auto rifle这一类。我是没有用过,但是各种武器它提供给我们以后,我们要衡量,加上我们有我们的装备,你突然另外一个装备来,\n130831\t159856\t那各位 我們這個不叫戰力喔要靠外援拿到才有的我不認為它是個戰力部長 我對你的回答其實不甚滿意 為什麼因為 當然你今天要求我們自己國軍的正規軍力的兵力來面對台海防衛作戰但是現在廣發步槍給每一個人甚至之前還有美國前國安顧問認為要廣射次增飛彈在每個派出所必要的時候通通拿出來全民接兵\n161087\t185816\t部長全民接兵是不是你的國防政策你要從這個角度來思考啊今天並不是說今天你說今天拿把槍來拿個飛彈來人民可以用那這個不是你們要的難道你希望全民接兵然後全民用這個在這種情況之下甚至跟戰爭法跟國際法是有所問題的我跟委員報告\n186696\t211044\t所以全民接兵在我的界定啊就是說全民接受過這種訓練以後他最起碼知道如何自我防衛這個當然是全民國防啊全民國防跟全民接兵是不一樣的啦全民接兵的話有點浮誘大家通常要當兵他現在是每人一把自動步槍每個人都可以拿著自爭飛彈就開始打\n212995\t242455\t跟委員報告,這他是一個提議啊,我們想說有很多意見,我也聽到很多。我就說是不是你國防政策嘛。身為部長,你就說這是不是你的國防政策,台灣的國防政策,該不該如此。我們沒有,我們沒有這種政策。不是你的國防政策嘛,這不是台灣的國防政策,我就是要你嚴格表達這樣的一個立場嘛。是,我現在不知道委員要不要...我說美國人有很多的關心,但是不切實際。全民皆兵,每個人拿一把步槍,拿到自治分站就能射,這不是我們台海防衛作戰的構想。我們至少國家要把這立場講清楚。\n243215\t266997\t但我現在要進到下一個問題就是說我們現在的確我們在國防整備上面不只全民國防加強我們明年的這個國軍的訓練也都增加了那不只我們增加了海岸守備旅我們增加了後備旅那現在我們也看到上面寫說入伍的時候要增加震撼教育那我要問這個震撼教育什麼時候開始你要怎麼進行\n268121\t285925\t事實上我跟委員報告,現在已經在做了,現在四個月疫情,他們也在做也在做震撼教育嗎?現在也有震撼教育?有在做然後是多少的時間,然後多少的彈藥在那個地方?多震撼?他在期末要入完畢之前,每個兵都要經過這個訓練現在這個訓練是怎麼樣?多長?彈藥多少?有多震撼?跟你前一不一樣\n292950\t317338\t跟委員報告震撼教育它等於說是一個戰鬥綜合教練的演練它是以模擬實戰的狀況它是以這個TNT的爆破還有機槍的空爆彈模擬的狀況我知道我在問你量現在這個彈藥跟過去是比較少還是比較多還是一樣然後這中間大概多長時間要多長有多震撼嘛\n318800\t330870\t我要問的是這個,你們不是都規劃好而且開始進行嗎?對,我們今年已經在實施震撼教練了細節你都不知道就對了,第一個它沒有實施實彈它是以機槍的空炮彈,還有TNT模擬在戰場的一個景況\n340858\t364474\t那長度要多長長度的話一到場地的話我們會有一個標準在這邊它是以障礙物的設置還有狀況的處置的相似還有距離來做一個規劃你講的都太模糊了我要求你們書面上來跟我們做說明這到底是怎麼樣進行我們現在這一種震撼教育非常重要就是安全我們不希望在非戰爭時期有任何的傷亡\n366835\t395975\t那這種訓練場是在專有的訓練場上面訓練嗎還是說今天在每個部隊都可以進行是在新訓中心他有個正漢教練場那你現在全國有多少座訓練這個教練場每一個新訓單位他都有每一個新訓單位都有總數多少一個概略是14座所以他們進行的時候都要在這個教練場他們進行的時候一定要在教練場而且有相關的防護規定的要求好那我再問\n396915\t423813\t除了這一個新兵的震撼教育那之前應該會有一些安全上面的一個教育安全上面的一個指導吧這個應該都會做吧報完都有我們在實施之前幹部也要做推演還有跟這個官兵都要測驗的官兵都要做相關的安逸規律律部長你們做一個書面上面的說明好不好提交本委員會大家來做參考了解你們這個震撼教育新的做法要怎麼做好不好好了解我是問部長 部長好不好\n424253\t440940\t我跟委員報告我們這樣好不好我們以圖示在這個做之前我們要做哪一個工作在一張圖上表達清楚一個清楚的書面報告跟本委員說明接著我要再問就是說你這個明年要成立我知道你們在\n442320\t453387\t陸軍有海岸守備旅,後備指揮部也有後備旅然後憲兵也有守衛營明年新增有多少的邊層要邊層,海岸守備這些的海岸守備\n457842\t471948\t公務員報告這個步兵的守備旅它是有11個守備旅那它是按照期程來一直到117年它有分陸續成立的明年要編成幾個\n473516\t488437\t它是同步在進行同步在進行它不會是一次把一個旅我們考量到這個是說同步11個同時開始編它都有按照每年的那什麼時候會成軍明年有沒有成軍的它\n489498\t513879\t編到一定的階段他就會先有一定的成軍怎麼問的都模模糊糊都沒有答案因為這個有一個比較完整和詳細的規劃如果委員要的話我們可以做一個書面的向您報告基本上這些都應該要是能夠在國會殿堂跟大家說明的資訊今天以來都模模糊糊的都不知道這到底是怎麼樣好不好第一個我也要求這樣最後我再問部長\n514600\t537309\t我要求就是說這個要跟我們來做說明好不好到底你這個編程怎樣現在我要再問的就是說最後一個問題3加1彈性休業方案我們上個會期有討論過我們有討論之前吧那這個大學3加1的這個彈性休業方案目前有多少人申請有多少大學配合你上來講吧\n539946\t562913\t目前只有五位三加一彈性修悅方案目前只有五位我們大肆大費周章辦到現在只有五位那為什麼只有五位因為這個設計不良就像我們當初說的有很多的問題大學很難以配合個人很難以配合是不是這樣子只有五位三加一彈性修悅方案只有五位\n564273\t586580\t跟委員報告當初教育部在徵詢意願的時候有46位學生他表達有意願但目前提出實際提出申請的只有五位那後續應該陸續可能他們會是他們需要提出申請你現在會申請就會申請不會申請就不會申請了啦我要問你現在問題在哪裡我們當初你們在提出來的時候我們就舉出很多問題了我那時候就提出說這樣的一個做法\n587000\t614284\t大學修業大量的一個減少而且它裡面有必修什麼擋來擋去學校會不會為了你又加開暑休這些東西都很麻煩而且這種東西男性女性還不一樣如果大學真的三年可以念完乾脆就很多人都可以申請三年念完嘛又不是只有當兵的人才可以三年念完當時又舉出很多問題了那現在我們就看只有五個申請所以我才問你那現在問題你們現在開始實際做了你們問題在哪裡咧回答一下吧 部長\n615698\t642193\t教育部教育部來跟委員報告教育部這邊做個說明當然我們就有頒布那個指引那主要就是希望同學在不影響他畢業的一個時間的情況下就剛才委員所講的三加一所以我們會給他更多的一個修業彈性譬如說他原來在學習所以有多少學校配合這很難啊你現在一下要四年擠成三年然後大家為了你要當兵的這幾個人去調學程當然那麼簡單你現在就五個人\n642833\t656028\t我看這五個人還不是同一間大學每個大學只有一個人一個人的話他要為了你去調暑期的學分去調這些必修這些的檔修我說沒有那麼容易啊我們從一開始就講過啦現在幾個學校在辦啊他有辦法為學生調嗎\n658411\t680227\t跟委員報告,現在之前我們就有跟在6月頒布指引後,7月就已經跟學校做說明會,讓學校在這個學期,就是今年9月10號開始這個學期,把相關的學責、教務章程都已經做修正,包括剛才講的說,增加學期當中的學分數啦,包括屬修,或者是跨校可以來選修等等。我問你現在這五個學生分佈在幾個學校?\n683306\t698980\t跟我們報告目前因為是在尊重學生的意願的情況下大概目前有7個學校有46個學生來申請不是我們剛剛講只有5個申請嘛你的訊息比國防部還要落後他剛剛就說5個而已了46個是報名但是只有5個申請啊\n704363\t732159\t現在剛才光佈說目前已經有就是五個是實際上提出來因為他們對啊所以是前面只是表達一個意願但是現在只有五個實際提出來只有這五個人的學校要去為他們做調整嗎不是所有的學校都要先做一個事先做一個調整以因應那我問你現在這些學校有多少學校做調整啊現在我們幾乎大部分的學校都已經做完調整了那只是把這個命令這個準則公佈啊他其他課程都有做調整嗎對都要做相應的調整不是都要做都做了嗎\n733333\t751474\t就是學校在這個學期開始他就陸續開始都全部來來來我還也要求教育部針對3加1這個的方案的實際執行也提交一個書面報告提交書面報告來給我們本委員會來看因為我們當初就質疑過這個問題了你現在只要做 教育部市長要不要上台\n752395\t756118\t教育部副市長也到這位就是教育部的請他們提出書面的報告到底這怎麼做有多少能夠配合\n","txt":"部長早安喔,你是陸軍出身嘛對不對?你知不知道AR-15的步槍?AR-15?那可能很早期的啦很早期喔,那你有沒有用過?你沒打?這一款步槍,你知不知道這一款步槍一分鐘可以打多少子彈?\n可以打750發,一秒鐘就可以打12發,這個火力算強吧?為什麼要問你這個你知道嗎?上個禮拜在美國總統的共和黨初選辯論裡面,幾位總統候選人都談到台灣問題\n那當然他們都對於美國要協助台灣自我防衛都有一致的看法但其中也有一位候選人他就表示要怎麼樣保護台灣他認為美國步槍協會NRI應該要到台灣設分處而且呢應該要大量提供AR-15的自動步槍給台灣每一個人讓他們用AR-15的步槍來保護\n自己部長你對於美國總統候選人這樣的一個論點你身為我們的國防部長你是什麼樣的一個立場\n我跟委員報告,這一題有時候一撤到選舉有點敏感,但我對這種問題的看法講說基本上一個國家它是以國防的能力要自己來做一個防衛,不能夠仰賴其他國家都要有所幫助,我們當然樂見,但這個幫助未必要像剛剛委員講的,到台灣來成立一個俱樂部,提供槍支\n不是俱乐部,它的步枪协会其实是广发步枪的。就算是一个步枪协会好了,AR就好了,可能是自动步枪嘛,auto rifle这一类。我是没有用过,但是各种武器它提供给我们以后,我们要衡量,加上我们有我们的装备,你突然另外一个装备来,\n那各位 我們這個不叫戰力喔要靠外援拿到才有的我不認為它是個戰力部長 我對你的回答其實不甚滿意 為什麼因為 當然你今天要求我們自己國軍的正規軍力的兵力來面對台海防衛作戰但是現在廣發步槍給每一個人甚至之前還有美國前國安顧問認為要廣射次增飛彈在每個派出所必要的時候通通拿出來全民接兵\n部長全民接兵是不是你的國防政策你要從這個角度來思考啊今天並不是說今天你說今天拿把槍來拿個飛彈來人民可以用那這個不是你們要的難道你希望全民接兵然後全民用這個在這種情況之下甚至跟戰爭法跟國際法是有所問題的我跟委員報告\n所以全民接兵在我的界定啊就是說全民接受過這種訓練以後他最起碼知道如何自我防衛這個當然是全民國防啊全民國防跟全民接兵是不一樣的啦全民接兵的話有點浮誘大家通常要當兵他現在是每人一把自動步槍每個人都可以拿著自爭飛彈就開始打\n跟委員報告,這他是一個提議啊,我們想說有很多意見,我也聽到很多。我就說是不是你國防政策嘛。身為部長,你就說這是不是你的國防政策,台灣的國防政策,該不該如此。我們沒有,我們沒有這種政策。不是你的國防政策嘛,這不是台灣的國防政策,我就是要你嚴格表達這樣的一個立場嘛。是,我現在不知道委員要不要...我說美國人有很多的關心,但是不切實際。全民皆兵,每個人拿一把步槍,拿到自治分站就能射,這不是我們台海防衛作戰的構想。我們至少國家要把這立場講清楚。\n但我現在要進到下一個問題就是說我們現在的確我們在國防整備上面不只全民國防加強我們明年的這個國軍的訓練也都增加了那不只我們增加了海岸守備旅我們增加了後備旅那現在我們也看到上面寫說入伍的時候要增加震撼教育那我要問這個震撼教育什麼時候開始你要怎麼進行\n事實上我跟委員報告,現在已經在做了,現在四個月疫情,他們也在做也在做震撼教育嗎?現在也有震撼教育?有在做然後是多少的時間,然後多少的彈藥在那個地方?多震撼?他在期末要入完畢之前,每個兵都要經過這個訓練現在這個訓練是怎麼樣?多長?彈藥多少?有多震撼?跟你前一不一樣\n跟委員報告震撼教育它等於說是一個戰鬥綜合教練的演練它是以模擬實戰的狀況它是以這個TNT的爆破還有機槍的空爆彈模擬的狀況我知道我在問你量現在這個彈藥跟過去是比較少還是比較多還是一樣然後這中間大概多長時間要多長有多震撼嘛\n我要問的是這個,你們不是都規劃好而且開始進行嗎?對,我們今年已經在實施震撼教練了細節你都不知道就對了,第一個它沒有實施實彈它是以機槍的空炮彈,還有TNT模擬在戰場的一個景況\n那長度要多長長度的話一到場地的話我們會有一個標準在這邊它是以障礙物的設置還有狀況的處置的相似還有距離來做一個規劃你講的都太模糊了我要求你們書面上來跟我們做說明這到底是怎麼樣進行我們現在這一種震撼教育非常重要就是安全我們不希望在非戰爭時期有任何的傷亡\n那這種訓練場是在專有的訓練場上面訓練嗎還是說今天在每個部隊都可以進行是在新訓中心他有個正漢教練場那你現在全國有多少座訓練這個教練場每一個新訓單位他都有每一個新訓單位都有總數多少一個概略是14座所以他們進行的時候都要在這個教練場他們進行的時候一定要在教練場而且有相關的防護規定的要求好那我再問\n除了這一個新兵的震撼教育那之前應該會有一些安全上面的一個教育安全上面的一個指導吧這個應該都會做吧報完都有我們在實施之前幹部也要做推演還有跟這個官兵都要測驗的官兵都要做相關的安逸規律律部長你們做一個書面上面的說明好不好提交本委員會大家來做參考了解你們這個震撼教育新的做法要怎麼做好不好好了解我是問部長 部長好不好\n我跟委員報告我們這樣好不好我們以圖示在這個做之前我們要做哪一個工作在一張圖上表達清楚一個清楚的書面報告跟本委員說明接著我要再問就是說你這個明年要成立我知道你們在\n陸軍有海岸守備旅,後備指揮部也有後備旅然後憲兵也有守衛營明年新增有多少的邊層要邊層,海岸守備這些的海岸守備\n公務員報告這個步兵的守備旅它是有11個守備旅那它是按照期程來一直到117年它有分陸續成立的明年要編成幾個\n它是同步在進行同步在進行它不會是一次把一個旅我們考量到這個是說同步11個同時開始編它都有按照每年的那什麼時候會成軍明年有沒有成軍的它\n編到一定的階段他就會先有一定的成軍怎麼問的都模模糊糊都沒有答案因為這個有一個比較完整和詳細的規劃如果委員要的話我們可以做一個書面的向您報告基本上這些都應該要是能夠在國會殿堂跟大家說明的資訊今天以來都模模糊糊的都不知道這到底是怎麼樣好不好第一個我也要求這樣最後我再問部長\n我要求就是說這個要跟我們來做說明好不好到底你這個編程怎樣現在我要再問的就是說最後一個問題3加1彈性休業方案我們上個會期有討論過我們有討論之前吧那這個大學3加1的這個彈性休業方案目前有多少人申請有多少大學配合你上來講吧\n目前只有五位三加一彈性修悅方案目前只有五位我們大肆大費周章辦到現在只有五位那為什麼只有五位因為這個設計不良就像我們當初說的有很多的問題大學很難以配合個人很難以配合是不是這樣子只有五位三加一彈性修悅方案只有五位\n跟委員報告當初教育部在徵詢意願的時候有46位學生他表達有意願但目前提出實際提出申請的只有五位那後續應該陸續可能他們會是他們需要提出申請你現在會申請就會申請不會申請就不會申請了啦我要問你現在問題在哪裡我們當初你們在提出來的時候我們就舉出很多問題了我那時候就提出說這樣的一個做法\n大學修業大量的一個減少而且它裡面有必修什麼擋來擋去學校會不會為了你又加開暑休這些東西都很麻煩而且這種東西男性女性還不一樣如果大學真的三年可以念完乾脆就很多人都可以申請三年念完嘛又不是只有當兵的人才可以三年念完當時又舉出很多問題了那現在我們就看只有五個申請所以我才問你那現在問題你們現在開始實際做了你們問題在哪裡咧回答一下吧 部長\n教育部教育部來跟委員報告教育部這邊做個說明當然我們就有頒布那個指引那主要就是希望同學在不影響他畢業的一個時間的情況下就剛才委員所講的三加一所以我們會給他更多的一個修業彈性譬如說他原來在學習所以有多少學校配合這很難啊你現在一下要四年擠成三年然後大家為了你要當兵的這幾個人去調學程當然那麼簡單你現在就五個人\n我看這五個人還不是同一間大學每個大學只有一個人一個人的話他要為了你去調暑期的學分去調這些必修這些的檔修我說沒有那麼容易啊我們從一開始就講過啦現在幾個學校在辦啊他有辦法為學生調嗎\n跟委員報告,現在之前我們就有跟在6月頒布指引後,7月就已經跟學校做說明會,讓學校在這個學期,就是今年9月10號開始這個學期,把相關的學責、教務章程都已經做修正,包括剛才講的說,增加學期當中的學分數啦,包括屬修,或者是跨校可以來選修等等。我問你現在這五個學生分佈在幾個學校?\n跟我們報告目前因為是在尊重學生的意願的情況下大概目前有7個學校有46個學生來申請不是我們剛剛講只有5個申請嘛你的訊息比國防部還要落後他剛剛就說5個而已了46個是報名但是只有5個申請啊\n現在剛才光佈說目前已經有就是五個是實際上提出來因為他們對啊所以是前面只是表達一個意願但是現在只有五個實際提出來只有這五個人的學校要去為他們做調整嗎不是所有的學校都要先做一個事先做一個調整以因應那我問你現在這些學校有多少學校做調整啊現在我們幾乎大部分的學校都已經做完調整了那只是把這個命令這個準則公佈啊他其他課程都有做調整嗎對都要做相應的調整不是都要做都做了嗎\n就是學校在這個學期開始他就陸續開始都全部來來來我還也要求教育部針對3加1這個的方案的實際執行也提交一個書面報告提交書面報告來給我們本委員會來看因為我們當初就質疑過這個問題了你現在只要做 教育部市長要不要上台\n教育部副市長也到這位就是教育部的請他們提出書面的報告到底這怎麼做有多少能夠配合\n","vtt":"WEBVTT\n\n00:01.850 --> 00:29.022\n部長早安喔,你是陸軍出身嘛對不對?你知不知道AR-15的步槍?AR-15?那可能很早期的啦很早期喔,那你有沒有用過?你沒打?這一款步槍,你知不知道這一款步槍一分鐘可以打多少子彈?\n\n00:30.458 --> 00:35.201\n可以打750發,一秒鐘就可以打12發,這個火力算強吧?為什麼要問你這個你知道嗎?上個禮拜在美國總統的共和黨初選辯論裡面,幾位總統候選人都談到台灣問題\n\n00:53.615 --> 01:17.237\n那當然他們都對於美國要協助台灣自我防衛都有一致的看法但其中也有一位候選人他就表示要怎麼樣保護台灣他認為美國步槍協會NRI應該要到台灣設分處而且呢應該要大量提供AR-15的自動步槍給台灣每一個人讓他們用AR-15的步槍來保護\n\n01:18.678 --> 01:26.171\n自己部長你對於美國總統候選人這樣的一個論點你身為我們的國防部長你是什麼樣的一個立場\n\n01:27.045 --> 01:50.617\n我跟委員報告,這一題有時候一撤到選舉有點敏感,但我對這種問題的看法講說基本上一個國家它是以國防的能力要自己來做一個防衛,不能夠仰賴其他國家都要有所幫助,我們當然樂見,但這個幫助未必要像剛剛委員講的,到台灣來成立一個俱樂部,提供槍支\n\n01:51.277 --> 02:09.837\n不是俱乐部,它的步枪协会其实是广发步枪的。就算是一个步枪协会好了,AR就好了,可能是自动步枪嘛,autorifle这一类。我是没有用过,但是各种武器它提供给我们以后,我们要衡量,加上我们有我们的装备,你突然另外一个装备来,\n\n02:10.831 --> 02:39.856\n那各位我們這個不叫戰力喔要靠外援拿到才有的我不認為它是個戰力部長我對你的回答其實不甚滿意為什麼因為當然你今天要求我們自己國軍的正規軍力的兵力來面對台海防衛作戰但是現在廣發步槍給每一個人甚至之前還有美國前國安顧問認為要廣射次增飛彈在每個派出所必要的時候通通拿出來全民接兵\n\n02:41.087 --> 03:05.816\n部長全民接兵是不是你的國防政策你要從這個角度來思考啊今天並不是說今天你說今天拿把槍來拿個飛彈來人民可以用那這個不是你們要的難道你希望全民接兵然後全民用這個在這種情況之下甚至跟戰爭法跟國際法是有所問題的我跟委員報告\n\n03:06.696 --> 03:31.044\n所以全民接兵在我的界定啊就是說全民接受過這種訓練以後他最起碼知道如何自我防衛這個當然是全民國防啊全民國防跟全民接兵是不一樣的啦全民接兵的話有點浮誘大家通常要當兵他現在是每人一把自動步槍每個人都可以拿著自爭飛彈就開始打\n\n03:32.995 --> 04:02.455\n跟委員報告,這他是一個提議啊,我們想說有很多意見,我也聽到很多。我就說是不是你國防政策嘛。身為部長,你就說這是不是你的國防政策,台灣的國防政策,該不該如此。我們沒有,我們沒有這種政策。不是你的國防政策嘛,這不是台灣的國防政策,我就是要你嚴格表達這樣的一個立場嘛。是,我現在不知道委員要不要...我說美國人有很多的關心,但是不切實際。全民皆兵,每個人拿一把步槍,拿到自治分站就能射,這不是我們台海防衛作戰的構想。我們至少國家要把這立場講清楚。\n\n04:03.215 --> 04:26.997\n但我現在要進到下一個問題就是說我們現在的確我們在國防整備上面不只全民國防加強我們明年的這個國軍的訓練也都增加了那不只我們增加了海岸守備旅我們增加了後備旅那現在我們也看到上面寫說入伍的時候要增加震撼教育那我要問這個震撼教育什麼時候開始你要怎麼進行\n\n04:28.121 --> 04:45.925\n事實上我跟委員報告,現在已經在做了,現在四個月疫情,他們也在做也在做震撼教育嗎?現在也有震撼教育?有在做然後是多少的時間,然後多少的彈藥在那個地方?多震撼?他在期末要入完畢之前,每個兵都要經過這個訓練現在這個訓練是怎麼樣?多長?彈藥多少?有多震撼?跟你前一不一樣\n\n04:52.950 --> 05:17.338\n跟委員報告震撼教育它等於說是一個戰鬥綜合教練的演練它是以模擬實戰的狀況它是以這個TNT的爆破還有機槍的空爆彈模擬的狀況我知道我在問你量現在這個彈藥跟過去是比較少還是比較多還是一樣然後這中間大概多長時間要多長有多震撼嘛\n\n05:18.800 --> 05:30.870\n我要問的是這個,你們不是都規劃好而且開始進行嗎?對,我們今年已經在實施震撼教練了細節你都不知道就對了,第一個它沒有實施實彈它是以機槍的空炮彈,還有TNT模擬在戰場的一個景況\n\n05:40.858 --> 06:04.474\n那長度要多長長度的話一到場地的話我們會有一個標準在這邊它是以障礙物的設置還有狀況的處置的相似還有距離來做一個規劃你講的都太模糊了我要求你們書面上來跟我們做說明這到底是怎麼樣進行我們現在這一種震撼教育非常重要就是安全我們不希望在非戰爭時期有任何的傷亡\n\n06:06.835 --> 06:35.975\n那這種訓練場是在專有的訓練場上面訓練嗎還是說今天在每個部隊都可以進行是在新訓中心他有個正漢教練場那你現在全國有多少座訓練這個教練場每一個新訓單位他都有每一個新訓單位都有總數多少一個概略是14座所以他們進行的時候都要在這個教練場他們進行的時候一定要在教練場而且有相關的防護規定的要求好那我再問\n\n06:36.915 --> 07:03.813\n除了這一個新兵的震撼教育那之前應該會有一些安全上面的一個教育安全上面的一個指導吧這個應該都會做吧報完都有我們在實施之前幹部也要做推演還有跟這個官兵都要測驗的官兵都要做相關的安逸規律律部長你們做一個書面上面的說明好不好提交本委員會大家來做參考了解你們這個震撼教育新的做法要怎麼做好不好好了解我是問部長部長好不好\n\n07:04.253 --> 07:20.940\n我跟委員報告我們這樣好不好我們以圖示在這個做之前我們要做哪一個工作在一張圖上表達清楚一個清楚的書面報告跟本委員說明接著我要再問就是說你這個明年要成立我知道你們在\n\n07:22.320 --> 07:33.387\n陸軍有海岸守備旅,後備指揮部也有後備旅然後憲兵也有守衛營明年新增有多少的邊層要邊層,海岸守備這些的海岸守備\n\n07:37.842 --> 07:51.948\n公務員報告這個步兵的守備旅它是有11個守備旅那它是按照期程來一直到117年它有分陸續成立的明年要編成幾個\n\n07:53.516 --> 08:08.437\n它是同步在進行同步在進行它不會是一次把一個旅我們考量到這個是說同步11個同時開始編它都有按照每年的那什麼時候會成軍明年有沒有成軍的它\n\n08:09.498 --> 08:33.879\n編到一定的階段他就會先有一定的成軍怎麼問的都模模糊糊都沒有答案因為這個有一個比較完整和詳細的規劃如果委員要的話我們可以做一個書面的向您報告基本上這些都應該要是能夠在國會殿堂跟大家說明的資訊今天以來都模模糊糊的都不知道這到底是怎麼樣好不好第一個我也要求這樣最後我再問部長\n\n08:34.600 --> 08:57.309\n我要求就是說這個要跟我們來做說明好不好到底你這個編程怎樣現在我要再問的就是說最後一個問題3加1彈性休業方案我們上個會期有討論過我們有討論之前吧那這個大學3加1的這個彈性休業方案目前有多少人申請有多少大學配合你上來講吧\n\n08:59.946 --> 09:22.913\n目前只有五位三加一彈性修悅方案目前只有五位我們大肆大費周章辦到現在只有五位那為什麼只有五位因為這個設計不良就像我們當初說的有很多的問題大學很難以配合個人很難以配合是不是這樣子只有五位三加一彈性修悅方案只有五位\n\n09:24.273 --> 09:46.580\n跟委員報告當初教育部在徵詢意願的時候有46位學生他表達有意願但目前提出實際提出申請的只有五位那後續應該陸續可能他們會是他們需要提出申請你現在會申請就會申請不會申請就不會申請了啦我要問你現在問題在哪裡我們當初你們在提出來的時候我們就舉出很多問題了我那時候就提出說這樣的一個做法\n\n09:47.000 --> 10:14.284\n大學修業大量的一個減少而且它裡面有必修什麼擋來擋去學校會不會為了你又加開暑休這些東西都很麻煩而且這種東西男性女性還不一樣如果大學真的三年可以念完乾脆就很多人都可以申請三年念完嘛又不是只有當兵的人才可以三年念完當時又舉出很多問題了那現在我們就看只有五個申請所以我才問你那現在問題你們現在開始實際做了你們問題在哪裡咧回答一下吧部長\n\n10:15.698 --> 10:42.193\n教育部教育部來跟委員報告教育部這邊做個說明當然我們就有頒布那個指引那主要就是希望同學在不影響他畢業的一個時間的情況下就剛才委員所講的三加一所以我們會給他更多的一個修業彈性譬如說他原來在學習所以有多少學校配合這很難啊你現在一下要四年擠成三年然後大家為了你要當兵的這幾個人去調學程當然那麼簡單你現在就五個人\n\n10:42.833 --> 10:56.028\n我看這五個人還不是同一間大學每個大學只有一個人一個人的話他要為了你去調暑期的學分去調這些必修這些的檔修我說沒有那麼容易啊我們從一開始就講過啦現在幾個學校在辦啊他有辦法為學生調嗎\n\n10:58.411 --> 11:20.227\n跟委員報告,現在之前我們就有跟在6月頒布指引後,7月就已經跟學校做說明會,讓學校在這個學期,就是今年9月10號開始這個學期,把相關的學責、教務章程都已經做修正,包括剛才講的說,增加學期當中的學分數啦,包括屬修,或者是跨校可以來選修等等。我問你現在這五個學生分佈在幾個學校?\n\n11:23.306 --> 11:38.980\n跟我們報告目前因為是在尊重學生的意願的情況下大概目前有7個學校有46個學生來申請不是我們剛剛講只有5個申請嘛你的訊息比國防部還要落後他剛剛就說5個而已了46個是報名但是只有5個申請啊\n\n11:44.363 --> 12:12.159\n現在剛才光佈說目前已經有就是五個是實際上提出來因為他們對啊所以是前面只是表達一個意願但是現在只有五個實際提出來只有這五個人的學校要去為他們做調整嗎不是所有的學校都要先做一個事先做一個調整以因應那我問你現在這些學校有多少學校做調整啊現在我們幾乎大部分的學校都已經做完調整了那只是把這個命令這個準則公佈啊他其他課程都有做調整嗎對都要做相應的調整不是都要做都做了嗎\n\n12:13.333 --> 12:31.474\n就是學校在這個學期開始他就陸續開始都全部來來來我還也要求教育部針對3加1這個的方案的實際執行也提交一個書面報告提交書面報告來給我們本委員會來看因為我們當初就質疑過這個問題了你現在只要做教育部市長要不要上台\n\n12:32.395 --> 12:36.118\n教育部副市長也到這位就是教育部的請他們提出書面的報告到底這怎麼做有多少能夠配合\n\n","segments":[{"start":1.85,"end":29.022,"text":"部長早安喔,你是陸軍出身嘛對不對?你知不知道AR-15的步槍?AR-15?那可能很早期的啦很早期喔,那你有沒有用過?你沒打?這一款步槍,你知不知道這一款步槍一分鐘可以打多少子彈?"},{"start":30.458,"end":35.201,"text":"可以打750發,一秒鐘就可以打12發,這個火力算強吧?為什麼要問你這個你知道嗎?上個禮拜在美國總統的共和黨初選辯論裡面,幾位總統候選人都談到台灣問題"},{"start":53.615,"end":77.237,"text":"那當然他們都對於美國要協助台灣自我防衛都有一致的看法但其中也有一位候選人他就表示要怎麼樣保護台灣他認為美國步槍協會NRI應該要到台灣設分處而且呢應該要大量提供AR-15的自動步槍給台灣每一個人讓他們用AR-15的步槍來保護"},{"start":78.678,"end":86.171,"text":"自己部長你對於美國總統候選人這樣的一個論點你身為我們的國防部長你是什麼樣的一個立場"},{"start":87.045,"end":110.617,"text":"我跟委員報告,這一題有時候一撤到選舉有點敏感,但我對這種問題的看法講說基本上一個國家它是以國防的能力要自己來做一個防衛,不能夠仰賴其他國家都要有所幫助,我們當然樂見,但這個幫助未必要像剛剛委員講的,到台灣來成立一個俱樂部,提供槍支"},{"start":111.277,"end":129.837,"text":"不是俱乐部,它的步枪协会其实是广发步枪的。就算是一个步枪协会好了,AR就好了,可能是自动步枪嘛,auto rifle这一类。我是没有用过,但是各种武器它提供给我们以后,我们要衡量,加上我们有我们的装备,你突然另外一个装备来,"},{"start":130.831,"end":159.856,"text":"那各位 我們這個不叫戰力喔要靠外援拿到才有的我不認為它是個戰力部長 我對你的回答其實不甚滿意 為什麼因為 當然你今天要求我們自己國軍的正規軍力的兵力來面對台海防衛作戰但是現在廣發步槍給每一個人甚至之前還有美國前國安顧問認為要廣射次增飛彈在每個派出所必要的時候通通拿出來全民接兵"},{"start":161.087,"end":185.816,"text":"部長全民接兵是不是你的國防政策你要從這個角度來思考啊今天並不是說今天你說今天拿把槍來拿個飛彈來人民可以用那這個不是你們要的難道你希望全民接兵然後全民用這個在這種情況之下甚至跟戰爭法跟國際法是有所問題的我跟委員報告"},{"start":186.696,"end":211.044,"text":"所以全民接兵在我的界定啊就是說全民接受過這種訓練以後他最起碼知道如何自我防衛這個當然是全民國防啊全民國防跟全民接兵是不一樣的啦全民接兵的話有點浮誘大家通常要當兵他現在是每人一把自動步槍每個人都可以拿著自爭飛彈就開始打"},{"start":212.995,"end":242.455,"text":"跟委員報告,這他是一個提議啊,我們想說有很多意見,我也聽到很多。我就說是不是你國防政策嘛。身為部長,你就說這是不是你的國防政策,台灣的國防政策,該不該如此。我們沒有,我們沒有這種政策。不是你的國防政策嘛,這不是台灣的國防政策,我就是要你嚴格表達這樣的一個立場嘛。是,我現在不知道委員要不要...我說美國人有很多的關心,但是不切實際。全民皆兵,每個人拿一把步槍,拿到自治分站就能射,這不是我們台海防衛作戰的構想。我們至少國家要把這立場講清楚。"},{"start":243.215,"end":266.997,"text":"但我現在要進到下一個問題就是說我們現在的確我們在國防整備上面不只全民國防加強我們明年的這個國軍的訓練也都增加了那不只我們增加了海岸守備旅我們增加了後備旅那現在我們也看到上面寫說入伍的時候要增加震撼教育那我要問這個震撼教育什麼時候開始你要怎麼進行"},{"start":268.121,"end":285.925,"text":"事實上我跟委員報告,現在已經在做了,現在四個月疫情,他們也在做也在做震撼教育嗎?現在也有震撼教育?有在做然後是多少的時間,然後多少的彈藥在那個地方?多震撼?他在期末要入完畢之前,每個兵都要經過這個訓練現在這個訓練是怎麼樣?多長?彈藥多少?有多震撼?跟你前一不一樣"},{"start":292.95,"end":317.338,"text":"跟委員報告震撼教育它等於說是一個戰鬥綜合教練的演練它是以模擬實戰的狀況它是以這個TNT的爆破還有機槍的空爆彈模擬的狀況我知道我在問你量現在這個彈藥跟過去是比較少還是比較多還是一樣然後這中間大概多長時間要多長有多震撼嘛"},{"start":318.8,"end":330.87,"text":"我要問的是這個,你們不是都規劃好而且開始進行嗎?對,我們今年已經在實施震撼教練了細節你都不知道就對了,第一個它沒有實施實彈它是以機槍的空炮彈,還有TNT模擬在戰場的一個景況"},{"start":340.858,"end":364.474,"text":"那長度要多長長度的話一到場地的話我們會有一個標準在這邊它是以障礙物的設置還有狀況的處置的相似還有距離來做一個規劃你講的都太模糊了我要求你們書面上來跟我們做說明這到底是怎麼樣進行我們現在這一種震撼教育非常重要就是安全我們不希望在非戰爭時期有任何的傷亡"},{"start":366.835,"end":395.975,"text":"那這種訓練場是在專有的訓練場上面訓練嗎還是說今天在每個部隊都可以進行是在新訓中心他有個正漢教練場那你現在全國有多少座訓練這個教練場每一個新訓單位他都有每一個新訓單位都有總數多少一個概略是14座所以他們進行的時候都要在這個教練場他們進行的時候一定要在教練場而且有相關的防護規定的要求好那我再問"},{"start":396.915,"end":423.813,"text":"除了這一個新兵的震撼教育那之前應該會有一些安全上面的一個教育安全上面的一個指導吧這個應該都會做吧報完都有我們在實施之前幹部也要做推演還有跟這個官兵都要測驗的官兵都要做相關的安逸規律律部長你們做一個書面上面的說明好不好提交本委員會大家來做參考了解你們這個震撼教育新的做法要怎麼做好不好好了解我是問部長 部長好不好"},{"start":424.253,"end":440.94,"text":"我跟委員報告我們這樣好不好我們以圖示在這個做之前我們要做哪一個工作在一張圖上表達清楚一個清楚的書面報告跟本委員說明接著我要再問就是說你這個明年要成立我知道你們在"},{"start":442.32,"end":453.387,"text":"陸軍有海岸守備旅,後備指揮部也有後備旅然後憲兵也有守衛營明年新增有多少的邊層要邊層,海岸守備這些的海岸守備"},{"start":457.842,"end":471.948,"text":"公務員報告這個步兵的守備旅它是有11個守備旅那它是按照期程來一直到117年它有分陸續成立的明年要編成幾個"},{"start":473.516,"end":488.437,"text":"它是同步在進行同步在進行它不會是一次把一個旅我們考量到這個是說同步11個同時開始編它都有按照每年的那什麼時候會成軍明年有沒有成軍的它"},{"start":489.498,"end":513.879,"text":"編到一定的階段他就會先有一定的成軍怎麼問的都模模糊糊都沒有答案因為這個有一個比較完整和詳細的規劃如果委員要的話我們可以做一個書面的向您報告基本上這些都應該要是能夠在國會殿堂跟大家說明的資訊今天以來都模模糊糊的都不知道這到底是怎麼樣好不好第一個我也要求這樣最後我再問部長"},{"start":514.6,"end":537.309,"text":"我要求就是說這個要跟我們來做說明好不好到底你這個編程怎樣現在我要再問的就是說最後一個問題3加1彈性休業方案我們上個會期有討論過我們有討論之前吧那這個大學3加1的這個彈性休業方案目前有多少人申請有多少大學配合你上來講吧"},{"start":539.946,"end":562.913,"text":"目前只有五位三加一彈性修悅方案目前只有五位我們大肆大費周章辦到現在只有五位那為什麼只有五位因為這個設計不良就像我們當初說的有很多的問題大學很難以配合個人很難以配合是不是這樣子只有五位三加一彈性修悅方案只有五位"},{"start":564.273,"end":586.58,"text":"跟委員報告當初教育部在徵詢意願的時候有46位學生他表達有意願但目前提出實際提出申請的只有五位那後續應該陸續可能他們會是他們需要提出申請你現在會申請就會申請不會申請就不會申請了啦我要問你現在問題在哪裡我們當初你們在提出來的時候我們就舉出很多問題了我那時候就提出說這樣的一個做法"},{"start":587,"end":614.284,"text":"大學修業大量的一個減少而且它裡面有必修什麼擋來擋去學校會不會為了你又加開暑休這些東西都很麻煩而且這種東西男性女性還不一樣如果大學真的三年可以念完乾脆就很多人都可以申請三年念完嘛又不是只有當兵的人才可以三年念完當時又舉出很多問題了那現在我們就看只有五個申請所以我才問你那現在問題你們現在開始實際做了你們問題在哪裡咧回答一下吧 部長"},{"start":615.698,"end":642.193,"text":"教育部教育部來跟委員報告教育部這邊做個說明當然我們就有頒布那個指引那主要就是希望同學在不影響他畢業的一個時間的情況下就剛才委員所講的三加一所以我們會給他更多的一個修業彈性譬如說他原來在學習所以有多少學校配合這很難啊你現在一下要四年擠成三年然後大家為了你要當兵的這幾個人去調學程當然那麼簡單你現在就五個人"},{"start":642.833,"end":656.028,"text":"我看這五個人還不是同一間大學每個大學只有一個人一個人的話他要為了你去調暑期的學分去調這些必修這些的檔修我說沒有那麼容易啊我們從一開始就講過啦現在幾個學校在辦啊他有辦法為學生調嗎"},{"start":658.411,"end":680.227,"text":"跟委員報告,現在之前我們就有跟在6月頒布指引後,7月就已經跟學校做說明會,讓學校在這個學期,就是今年9月10號開始這個學期,把相關的學責、教務章程都已經做修正,包括剛才講的說,增加學期當中的學分數啦,包括屬修,或者是跨校可以來選修等等。我問你現在這五個學生分佈在幾個學校?"},{"start":683.306,"end":698.98,"text":"跟我們報告目前因為是在尊重學生的意願的情況下大概目前有7個學校有46個學生來申請不是我們剛剛講只有5個申請嘛你的訊息比國防部還要落後他剛剛就說5個而已了46個是報名但是只有5個申請啊"},{"start":704.363,"end":732.159,"text":"現在剛才光佈說目前已經有就是五個是實際上提出來因為他們對啊所以是前面只是表達一個意願但是現在只有五個實際提出來只有這五個人的學校要去為他們做調整嗎不是所有的學校都要先做一個事先做一個調整以因應那我問你現在這些學校有多少學校做調整啊現在我們幾乎大部分的學校都已經做完調整了那只是把這個命令這個準則公佈啊他其他課程都有做調整嗎對都要做相應的調整不是都要做都做了嗎"},{"start":733.333,"end":751.474,"text":"就是學校在這個學期開始他就陸續開始都全部來來來我還也要求教育部針對3加1這個的方案的實際執行也提交一個書面報告提交書面報告來給我們本委員會來看因為我們當初就質疑過這個問題了你現在只要做 教育部市長要不要上台"},{"start":752.395,"end":756.118,"text":"教育部副市長也到這位就是教育部的請他們提出書面的報告到底這怎麼做有多少能夠配合"}]}}}}