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LED或類似太陽能的相關組件，因為中國用削價競爭模式，導致臺灣的競爭力逐漸下降？"],["王部長美花：謝謝委員。這確實是國際社會上非常關切的議題。對臺灣來講，就成熟製程部分來說我們有幾個方向：一，即使是成熟製程，我們希望更多的是成熟製程裡的特殊製程！而特殊製程要跟客戶做相對接的研發與驗測，如此才能確保我們仍可以持續作為國際的重要供應鏈。二，從明年開始的晶創計畫希望能讓我們的半導體，不管是製造端或IC設計端都能再往前推進，並更與國際供應鏈合作，這是民主自由國家都在思考怎麼樣一起合作，來應對未來趨勢……"],["蔡委員易餘：沒有錯！現在全世界都看到中國在先進製程的競爭力拼不過我們台積電，所以才會在成熟製程這一塊大量投入，他們想要用這個當武器去掐住全球半導體的供應鏈！因為所謂的成熟製程，包括車用晶片和一些AI，在全球有75%以上都採用成熟製程。如果未來這一塊被中國掐住了市占率，他們再採削價競爭的模式，那我覺得這件事情是應該要被擔心的！"],["王部長美花：是。"],["蔡委員易餘：所以除了我們自己要精進外，我們相信臺灣除了台積電護國神山，還有更多像聯電、力積電，這些也是護國群山。我要跟部長具體建議，如果成熟製程的設備或人才，也就是臺灣的設備或人才要輸往中國，一旦中國的廠商背後有官方色彩的話，我覺得我們至少要有備查或審查這二個強度。當然，並不是不讓它過去，但是他要過去的時候，至少要讓我們經濟部可以精準的抓到哪一些設備商可能會跟中國的攻擊性投資兜在一起，部長，我覺得這件事情我們是不是要認真來思考一下做這樣的管制，其實這個也是很輕度的管制，但至少可以保護我們臺灣的半導體成熟製程，我覺得這個是不是應該要來思考看看？"],["王部長美花：好，謝謝委員，這個有一點細膩，而且這個也需要跟相關的國家一起來協商，不過委員建議的部分，我們回去之後來會大力來思考，這個……"],["蔡委員易餘：部長，我覺得這個部分我們應該要早一點防患於未然啦，因為我們知道中國就不是跟你做公平競爭啊，第一個，他們從過去的海盜王國，設備一進來，他們有可能就整個給你照抄，他也不管你所謂的智慧財產權，中國不理這一塊！既然不理這一塊的話，如果我們臺灣去參與了他的，我們提供設備，我們雖然是賣給他設備，但是後來、未來他不需要了，他就自己做了，他就自己做了，然後變成臺灣去加速了中國成熟製程的進展，這個我們要小心，好不好？"],["王部長美花：是。"],["蔡委員易餘：部長，所以我覺得這一塊我們要趕快提出臺灣的因應措施，好不好？"],["王部長美花：是。"],["蔡委員易餘：好，第二個問題，我知道現在經濟部以及相關的部會、國科會，事實上也有在考慮嘉義可能是需要，包括我們要有再生水廠，包括未來可能要有海淡廠，我想這些都是嘉義未來要邁向我們要有一些科技產業的布局所需，因為我們需要確保用水的供應無虞。如果我們要投入再生水廠的話，我想要請教部長的是，再生水廠的範圍是不是可以把我們相關的，因為嘉義科學園區旁邊就是馬稠後，我們是不是可以把馬稠後也納入所謂再生水的範圍，以提高未來這些科技廠需要再生水時的水量。"],["王部長美花：是，這個部分，應該是說國科會不要只管科學園區，委員講得很好，就是說附近的這一些如果可以連在一起來思考再生水的話，那會比較有效率，甚至可以再提高。"],["蔡委員易餘：因為嘉義的科學園區跟馬稠後大概距離不到3公里啦，它相對是很近的，所以我們如果可以把這二個園區，用一個大的同心圓概念，把它都納入所謂再生水，我想未來任何科技廠需要使用再生水時，它的水源會更多。"],["王部長美花：是，這個在跨部會討論的時候我們會提出來。"],["蔡委員易餘：好，當然最後還是要拜託部長成就我們嘉義，替我們再繼續美言啦，我想嘉義也希望像邱委員所說的一樣，就是我們整個半導體產業的廊帶，在南臺灣這邊是一個整體布局嘛，而這個整體布局最北端大概就是嘉義啊，整個南科創造的半導體廊帶，我們嘉義應該也是要加入成為一分子，好不好？"],["王部長美花：是。"],["蔡委員易餘：好，謝謝。"],["王部長美花：謝謝委員。"],["主席：謝謝，不是嘉義就是高雄啦。部長，特別是剛剛提到的成熟製程的人才跟設備輸出，之前我也跟你反映過，今天主席（召委）也提出，希望是不是能夠在1個月之內，針對成熟製程的部分，未來如果你不做相關的管制，未來它可能會占到市占率50%。所以針對成熟製程的設備、人才的輸出，你們一定要有相關的管制，不管是事先的審查，還是剛剛召委所說的事後查備或者是備查，都要有相關的機制啦，你們不能完全沒有管制，就讓他要去就去，這樣不但是人才會外流，設備也會讓他們獨占，未來這個可能對會護國神山群形成一些負面的作用，這部分是不是1個月之內？"],["王部長美花：我們跨部會來討論。"],["主席：是不是1個月之內提出，可不可以？"],["王部長美花：這個相關的討論恐怕會需要比較久的時間，因為它涉及到跨部會的問題。"],["主席：那改成2個月啦。"],["王部長美花：3個月好不好？"],["主席：好，3個月，謝謝。"],["主席（蔡委員易餘）：部長應該可以感受到現在都是高雄跟嘉義在關心半導體未來的發展，我們都很關心。","登記發言委員除不在場者之外，其餘均已發言完畢，詢答結束。委員呂玉玲所提書面質詢列入紀錄，刊登公報。書面質詢及未及答復部分，請相關單位於一週內以書面答復，並副知本會。"]],"agenda":{"page_end":292,"meet_id":"委員會-10-8-19-14","speakers":["蔡易餘","賴瑞隆","陳亭妃","楊瓊瓔","翁重鈞","陳椒華","邱志偉","呂玉玲","陳超明","蘇治芬"],"page_start":245,"meetingDate":["2023-12-11"],"gazette_id":"1130201","agenda_lcidc_ids":["1130201_00004"],"meet_name":"立法院第10屆第8會期經濟委員會第14次全體委員會議紀錄","content":"審查本院委員蔡易餘等16人擬具「土石採取法第三十六條條文修正草案」案","agenda_id":"1130201_00003"}},"transcript":{"id":"148947","pyannote":{"name":"ronny","tool":"pyannote","data":{"url":"https://ivod.ly.gov.tw/Play/Clip/1M/148947","tool":"pyannote","id":"148947-pyannote"},"job_id":"KBVdbso9diaE0jqs","queued_at":"2025-10-22 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--> 00:01:21,522\n2024年底中國還預計要成立三四二座大型的一個晶圓廠那我現在比較擔心的就是說當中國在做這樣攻擊性投資半導體的成熟製程的這個階段我們想像中國的官方他們因為會用補助然後去壓低他們的成本\n\n4\n00:01:22,202 --> 00:01:37,238\n那如果在這樣的情勢之下未來我們會不會擔心半導體的成熟製程會像過去的LED啦或者是類似太陽能的相關的組件因為中國用所謂的銷價競爭的模式然後讓我們台灣的競爭力逐漸下降\n\n5\n00:01:43,247 --> 00:01:46,469\n謝謝委員那這個也確實是國際社會上非常關切的議題那對台灣來講這個在成熟製程這個部分我們有幾個方向一個就是說即使是成熟製程我們希望它更多的是成熟裡面的特殊製程\n\n6\n00:02:00,615 --> 00:02:06,036\n那特殊製程呢他其實都要跟客戶要做相對接的這個研發跟驗測那這樣的話才能夠確保說那我們仍然持續可以當作國際的重要供應鏈那第二個部分呢從明年開始的精創計畫呢也希望對我們的半導體不管是在製造端的或者是在那個IC設計端的呢能夠再往前推進而且再跟國際供應鏈更合作那這個確實是\n\n7\n00:02:31,384 --> 00:02:37,273\n這個民主自由國家大家也都在思考怎麼樣一起合作來應對部長沒有錯就是說現在全世界國家都看到中國為了他們現在\n\n8\n00:02:43,080 --> 00:02:50,664\n他們在現金製程他們大概競爭力拚不過我們台積電所以已經成熟製程這一塊已經大量的去投入他們也是想要用這個當武器去掐住全球半導體的供應鏈因為現在所謂的成熟製程包括車用晶片包括一些AI事實上\n\n9\n00:03:05,891 --> 00:03:18,185\n因為現在的市佔率還是全球的75%以上都是用成熟製程那如果未來這一塊被中國掐住了一個市佔率那他們再用銷價競爭的一個模式我覺得這件事情是應該要被擔心的\n\n10\n00:03:23,911 --> 00:03:48,205\n所以我們除了自己要精進我們相信台灣我們除了台積電護國神山我們還有更多像聯電像力積電他們這些都是護國群山我要跟部長具體建議我具體建議的就是說我們對於成熟製程如果他們的設備或人才台灣的設備或人才要輸往中國\n\n11\n00:03:50,726 --> 00:03:55,810\n要輸往中國那如果中國的這個廠商他們背後有官方色彩的話我覺得我們至少要要有被查或者是審查這兩個強度當然並不是不讓他過去但是他要過去的時候至少要讓我們經濟部可以精準的抓到哪一些設備商可能會跟中國的攻擊性投資會去兜在一起這件事情我覺得部長\n\n12\n00:04:19,306 --> 00:04:24,469\n是不是我們應該認真來思考一下做這樣的一個管制那這個也是很輕度的管制那至少保護我們台灣的半導體成熟製程我覺得這個是不是應該來數刻況好謝謝委員那這個有一點細膩那我想這個也需要跟相關的國家一起來協商那不過委員的建議的部分我們會回去來大力來思考\n\n13\n00:04:44,338 --> 00:04:48,799\n我覺得保證這個保安我們應該要早點防範未然因為我們知道中國他就不是跟你做公平競爭啊第一個他們過去的海盜王國因為什麼啦他們有可能就把你整個照抄他也不管你所謂的智慧財產權中國不理這一塊既然不理這一塊的話如果我們台灣去\n\n14\n00:05:08,423 --> 00:05:24,118\n去參與了他的我們提供設備我們雖然是賣給他設備但是後來他未來他不需要了他就自己做了他就自己做了然後變成台灣去加速了中國成熟製程的進展這個我們要小心好不好部長所以我覺得這塊我們要趕快提出我們台灣的因應措施好不好\n\n15\n00:05:31,184 --> 00:05:47,898\n好第二個就是說我知道說現在經濟部那以及相關的部會國科會事實上也有在考慮加疫可能是需要包括我們要有再生水廠包括未來可能要有這一個海蛋廠\n\n16\n00:05:50,240 --> 00:05:52,741\n我想這些都是變成嘉義要邁向我們要有一些科技產業的佈局那我們需要有這個水的一個供應的一個無餘那如果我們要投入再生水廠的話那我想要請教部長的就是說我們再生水廠的\n\n17\n00:06:08,689 --> 00:06:12,333\n範圍是不是可以把我們相關因為嘉義科學園區旁邊就是馬酬後我們是不是可以把馬酬後也納入所謂再生水的一個範圍那以提高未來這些科技廠它需要再生水的一個水量\n\n18\n00:06:25,007 --> 00:06:48,372\n是那這個部分應該就是說不要只科學園國科會只管科學園區那委員講得很好就是說如果附近的這些可以連在一起來思考這個再生水的話那會比較有效率可以再提高因為嘉義的科學園區跟馬籌後大概距離不到不到3公里啦它相對是很近的所以我們可以如果把這兩個園區用一個一個大\n\n19\n00:06:52,093 --> 00:07:03,862\n大的同心圓的概念把它都納入所謂再生水那我想未來任何科技廠它需要使用再生水它的水源會更多是這個我們在跨部會討論的時候我們會提出來好那當然就是最後還是要\n\n20\n00:07:09,772 --> 00:07:12,633\n拜託部長把我們加以到新酒啦這個替我們再繼續美顏啦那我想我們嘉義也希望像邱委員一樣所說的就是說我們半導體的整個產業的南帶南台灣這邊是一個整體佈局嘛那這個整體佈局咧大概最北端就是嘉義啊\n\n21\n00:07:30,620 --> 00:07:41,343\n就是整個藍科創造的這個半導體的藍帶那我們嘉義應該也是要加入這一份子好不好是是好謝謝謝謝韋恩好謝謝不是嘉義就是高雄\n\n","tsv":"start\tend\ttext\n10080\t14622\t好 謝謝主席那我們是不是有請我們經濟部我們王部長經濟部王部長好 委員好部長好部長呢因為我前幾天也有跟你反映因為現在中國對於這個半導體這個晶圓廠他們現在叫做攻擊性投資那這個他們這個攻擊性投資他們是針對所謂的成熟製程而不是像台積電這樣的先進製程\n39051\t59330\t那他們大量的在成熟製程裡面要去搶工他們的市佔率那他們也抓住他們的目標就是今年就要從29%把它拉到33%那相對的成熟製程我們的市佔率可能會因為中國的搶工市場那我們的市佔率會下降\n62592\t81522\t2024年底中國還預計要成立三四二座大型的一個晶圓廠那我現在比較擔心的就是說當中國在做這樣攻擊性投資半導體的成熟製程的這個階段我們想像中國的官方他們因為會用補助然後去壓低他們的成本\n82202\t97238\t那如果在這樣的情勢之下未來我們會不會擔心半導體的成熟製程會像過去的LED啦或者是類似太陽能的相關的組件因為中國用所謂的銷價競爭的模式然後讓我們台灣的競爭力逐漸下降\n103247\t106469\t謝謝委員那這個也確實是國際社會上非常關切的議題那對台灣來講這個在成熟製程這個部分我們有幾個方向一個就是說即使是成熟製程我們希望它更多的是成熟裡面的特殊製程\n120615\t126036\t那特殊製程呢他其實都要跟客戶要做相對接的這個研發跟驗測那這樣的話才能夠確保說那我們仍然持續可以當作國際的重要供應鏈那第二個部分呢從明年開始的精創計畫呢也希望對我們的半導體不管是在製造端的或者是在那個IC設計端的呢能夠再往前推進而且再跟國際供應鏈更合作那這個確實是\n151384\t157273\t這個民主自由國家大家也都在思考怎麼樣一起合作來應對部長沒有錯就是說現在全世界國家都看到中國為了他們現在\n163080\t170664\t他們在現金製程他們大概競爭力拚不過我們台積電所以已經成熟製程這一塊已經大量的去投入他們也是想要用這個當武器去掐住全球半導體的供應鏈因為現在所謂的成熟製程包括車用晶片包括一些AI事實上\n185891\t198185\t因為現在的市佔率還是全球的75%以上都是用成熟製程那如果未來這一塊被中國掐住了一個市佔率那他們再用銷價競爭的一個模式我覺得這件事情是應該要被擔心的\n203911\t228205\t所以我們除了自己要精進我們相信台灣我們除了台積電護國神山我們還有更多像聯電像力積電他們這些都是護國群山我要跟部長具體建議我具體建議的就是說我們對於成熟製程如果他們的設備或人才台灣的設備或人才要輸往中國\n230726\t235810\t要輸往中國那如果中國的這個廠商他們背後有官方色彩的話我覺得我們至少要要有被查或者是審查這兩個強度當然並不是不讓他過去但是他要過去的時候至少要讓我們經濟部可以精準的抓到哪一些設備商可能會跟中國的攻擊性投資會去兜在一起這件事情我覺得部長\n259306\t264469\t是不是我們應該認真來思考一下做這樣的一個管制那這個也是很輕度的管制那至少保護我們台灣的半導體成熟製程我覺得這個是不是應該來數刻況好謝謝委員那這個有一點細膩那我想這個也需要跟相關的國家一起來協商那不過委員的建議的部分我們會回去來大力來思考\n284338\t288799\t我覺得保證這個保安 我們應該要早點防範未然因為我們知道 中國他就不是跟你做公平競爭啊第一個 他們過去的海盜王國 因為什麼啦 他們有可能就把你整個照抄他也不管你所謂的智慧財產權 中國不理這一塊既然不理這一塊的話 如果我們台灣去\n308423\t324118\t去參與了他的我們提供設備我們雖然是賣給他設備但是後來他未來他不需要了他就自己做了他就自己做了然後變成台灣去加速了中國成熟製程的進展這個我們要小心好不好部長所以我覺得這塊我們要趕快提出我們台灣的因應措施好不好\n331184\t347898\t好第二個就是說我知道說現在經濟部那以及相關的部會國科會事實上也有在考慮加疫可能是需要包括我們要有再生水廠包括未來可能要有這一個海蛋廠\n350240\t352741\t我想這些都是變成嘉義要邁向我們要有一些科技產業的佈局那我們需要有這個水的一個供應的一個無餘那如果我們要投入再生水廠的話那我想要請教部長的就是說我們再生水廠的\n368689\t372333\t範圍是不是可以把我們相關因為嘉義科學園區旁邊就是馬酬後我們是不是可以把馬酬後也納入所謂再生水的一個範圍那以提高未來這些科技廠它需要再生水的一個水量\n385007\t408372\t是那這個部分應該就是說不要只科學園國科會只管科學園區那委員講得很好就是說如果附近的這些可以連在一起來思考這個再生水的話那會比較有效率可以再提高因為嘉義的科學園區跟馬籌後大概距離不到不到3公里啦它相對是很近的所以我們可以如果把這兩個園區用一個一個大\n412093\t423862\t大的同心圓的概念把它都納入所謂再生水那我想未來任何科技廠它需要使用再生水它的水源會更多是 這個我們在跨部會討論的時候我們會提出來好 那當然就是最後還是要\n429772\t432633\t拜託部長把我們加以到新酒啦這個替我們再繼續美顏啦那我想我們嘉義也希望像邱委員一樣所說的就是說我們半導體的整個產業的南帶南台灣這邊是一個整體佈局嘛那這個整體佈局咧大概最北端就是嘉義啊\n450620\t461343\t就是整個藍科創造的這個半導體的藍帶那我們嘉義應該也是要加入這一份子好不好是是好謝謝謝謝韋恩好謝謝不是嘉義就是高雄\n","txt":"好 謝謝主席那我們是不是有請我們經濟部我們王部長經濟部王部長好 委員好部長好部長呢因為我前幾天也有跟你反映因為現在中國對於這個半導體這個晶圓廠他們現在叫做攻擊性投資那這個他們這個攻擊性投資他們是針對所謂的成熟製程而不是像台積電這樣的先進製程\n那他們大量的在成熟製程裡面要去搶工他們的市佔率那他們也抓住他們的目標就是今年就要從29%把它拉到33%那相對的成熟製程我們的市佔率可能會因為中國的搶工市場那我們的市佔率會下降\n2024年底中國還預計要成立三四二座大型的一個晶圓廠那我現在比較擔心的就是說當中國在做這樣攻擊性投資半導體的成熟製程的這個階段我們想像中國的官方他們因為會用補助然後去壓低他們的成本\n那如果在這樣的情勢之下未來我們會不會擔心半導體的成熟製程會像過去的LED啦或者是類似太陽能的相關的組件因為中國用所謂的銷價競爭的模式然後讓我們台灣的競爭力逐漸下降\n謝謝委員那這個也確實是國際社會上非常關切的議題那對台灣來講這個在成熟製程這個部分我們有幾個方向一個就是說即使是成熟製程我們希望它更多的是成熟裡面的特殊製程\n那特殊製程呢他其實都要跟客戶要做相對接的這個研發跟驗測那這樣的話才能夠確保說那我們仍然持續可以當作國際的重要供應鏈那第二個部分呢從明年開始的精創計畫呢也希望對我們的半導體不管是在製造端的或者是在那個IC設計端的呢能夠再往前推進而且再跟國際供應鏈更合作那這個確實是\n這個民主自由國家大家也都在思考怎麼樣一起合作來應對部長沒有錯就是說現在全世界國家都看到中國為了他們現在\n他們在現金製程他們大概競爭力拚不過我們台積電所以已經成熟製程這一塊已經大量的去投入他們也是想要用這個當武器去掐住全球半導體的供應鏈因為現在所謂的成熟製程包括車用晶片包括一些AI事實上\n因為現在的市佔率還是全球的75%以上都是用成熟製程那如果未來這一塊被中國掐住了一個市佔率那他們再用銷價競爭的一個模式我覺得這件事情是應該要被擔心的\n所以我們除了自己要精進我們相信台灣我們除了台積電護國神山我們還有更多像聯電像力積電他們這些都是護國群山我要跟部長具體建議我具體建議的就是說我們對於成熟製程如果他們的設備或人才台灣的設備或人才要輸往中國\n要輸往中國那如果中國的這個廠商他們背後有官方色彩的話我覺得我們至少要要有被查或者是審查這兩個強度當然並不是不讓他過去但是他要過去的時候至少要讓我們經濟部可以精準的抓到哪一些設備商可能會跟中國的攻擊性投資會去兜在一起這件事情我覺得部長\n是不是我們應該認真來思考一下做這樣的一個管制那這個也是很輕度的管制那至少保護我們台灣的半導體成熟製程我覺得這個是不是應該來數刻況好謝謝委員那這個有一點細膩那我想這個也需要跟相關的國家一起來協商那不過委員的建議的部分我們會回去來大力來思考\n我覺得保證這個保安 我們應該要早點防範未然因為我們知道 中國他就不是跟你做公平競爭啊第一個 他們過去的海盜王國 因為什麼啦 他們有可能就把你整個照抄他也不管你所謂的智慧財產權 中國不理這一塊既然不理這一塊的話 如果我們台灣去\n去參與了他的我們提供設備我們雖然是賣給他設備但是後來他未來他不需要了他就自己做了他就自己做了然後變成台灣去加速了中國成熟製程的進展這個我們要小心好不好部長所以我覺得這塊我們要趕快提出我們台灣的因應措施好不好\n好第二個就是說我知道說現在經濟部那以及相關的部會國科會事實上也有在考慮加疫可能是需要包括我們要有再生水廠包括未來可能要有這一個海蛋廠\n我想這些都是變成嘉義要邁向我們要有一些科技產業的佈局那我們需要有這個水的一個供應的一個無餘那如果我們要投入再生水廠的話那我想要請教部長的就是說我們再生水廠的\n範圍是不是可以把我們相關因為嘉義科學園區旁邊就是馬酬後我們是不是可以把馬酬後也納入所謂再生水的一個範圍那以提高未來這些科技廠它需要再生水的一個水量\n是那這個部分應該就是說不要只科學園國科會只管科學園區那委員講得很好就是說如果附近的這些可以連在一起來思考這個再生水的話那會比較有效率可以再提高因為嘉義的科學園區跟馬籌後大概距離不到不到3公里啦它相對是很近的所以我們可以如果把這兩個園區用一個一個大\n大的同心圓的概念把它都納入所謂再生水那我想未來任何科技廠它需要使用再生水它的水源會更多是 這個我們在跨部會討論的時候我們會提出來好 那當然就是最後還是要\n拜託部長把我們加以到新酒啦這個替我們再繼續美顏啦那我想我們嘉義也希望像邱委員一樣所說的就是說我們半導體的整個產業的南帶南台灣這邊是一個整體佈局嘛那這個整體佈局咧大概最北端就是嘉義啊\n就是整個藍科創造的這個半導體的藍帶那我們嘉義應該也是要加入這一份子好不好是是好謝謝謝謝韋恩好謝謝不是嘉義就是高雄\n","vtt":"WEBVTT\n\n00:10.080 --> 00:14.622\n好謝謝主席那我們是不是有請我們經濟部我們王部長經濟部王部長好委員好部長好部長呢因為我前幾天也有跟你反映因為現在中國對於這個半導體這個晶圓廠他們現在叫做攻擊性投資那這個他們這個攻擊性投資他們是針對所謂的成熟製程而不是像台積電這樣的先進製程\n\n00:39.051 --> 00:59.330\n那他們大量的在成熟製程裡面要去搶工他們的市佔率那他們也抓住他們的目標就是今年就要從29%把它拉到33%那相對的成熟製程我們的市佔率可能會因為中國的搶工市場那我們的市佔率會下降\n\n01:02.592 --> 01:21.522\n2024年底中國還預計要成立三四二座大型的一個晶圓廠那我現在比較擔心的就是說當中國在做這樣攻擊性投資半導體的成熟製程的這個階段我們想像中國的官方他們因為會用補助然後去壓低他們的成本\n\n01:22.202 --> 01:37.238\n那如果在這樣的情勢之下未來我們會不會擔心半導體的成熟製程會像過去的LED啦或者是類似太陽能的相關的組件因為中國用所謂的銷價競爭的模式然後讓我們台灣的競爭力逐漸下降\n\n01:43.247 --> 01:46.469\n謝謝委員那這個也確實是國際社會上非常關切的議題那對台灣來講這個在成熟製程這個部分我們有幾個方向一個就是說即使是成熟製程我們希望它更多的是成熟裡面的特殊製程\n\n02:00.615 --> 02:06.036\n那特殊製程呢他其實都要跟客戶要做相對接的這個研發跟驗測那這樣的話才能夠確保說那我們仍然持續可以當作國際的重要供應鏈那第二個部分呢從明年開始的精創計畫呢也希望對我們的半導體不管是在製造端的或者是在那個IC設計端的呢能夠再往前推進而且再跟國際供應鏈更合作那這個確實是\n\n02:31.384 --> 02:37.273\n這個民主自由國家大家也都在思考怎麼樣一起合作來應對部長沒有錯就是說現在全世界國家都看到中國為了他們現在\n\n02:43.080 --> 02:50.664\n他們在現金製程他們大概競爭力拚不過我們台積電所以已經成熟製程這一塊已經大量的去投入他們也是想要用這個當武器去掐住全球半導體的供應鏈因為現在所謂的成熟製程包括車用晶片包括一些AI事實上\n\n03:05.891 --> 03:18.185\n因為現在的市佔率還是全球的75%以上都是用成熟製程那如果未來這一塊被中國掐住了一個市佔率那他們再用銷價競爭的一個模式我覺得這件事情是應該要被擔心的\n\n03:23.911 --> 03:48.205\n所以我們除了自己要精進我們相信台灣我們除了台積電護國神山我們還有更多像聯電像力積電他們這些都是護國群山我要跟部長具體建議我具體建議的就是說我們對於成熟製程如果他們的設備或人才台灣的設備或人才要輸往中國\n\n03:50.726 --> 03:55.810\n要輸往中國那如果中國的這個廠商他們背後有官方色彩的話我覺得我們至少要要有被查或者是審查這兩個強度當然並不是不讓他過去但是他要過去的時候至少要讓我們經濟部可以精準的抓到哪一些設備商可能會跟中國的攻擊性投資會去兜在一起這件事情我覺得部長\n\n04:19.306 --> 04:24.469\n是不是我們應該認真來思考一下做這樣的一個管制那這個也是很輕度的管制那至少保護我們台灣的半導體成熟製程我覺得這個是不是應該來數刻況好謝謝委員那這個有一點細膩那我想這個也需要跟相關的國家一起來協商那不過委員的建議的部分我們會回去來大力來思考\n\n04:44.338 --> 04:48.799\n我覺得保證這個保安我們應該要早點防範未然因為我們知道中國他就不是跟你做公平競爭啊第一個他們過去的海盜王國因為什麼啦他們有可能就把你整個照抄他也不管你所謂的智慧財產權中國不理這一塊既然不理這一塊的話如果我們台灣去\n\n05:08.423 --> 05:24.118\n去參與了他的我們提供設備我們雖然是賣給他設備但是後來他未來他不需要了他就自己做了他就自己做了然後變成台灣去加速了中國成熟製程的進展這個我們要小心好不好部長所以我覺得這塊我們要趕快提出我們台灣的因應措施好不好\n\n05:31.184 --> 05:47.898\n好第二個就是說我知道說現在經濟部那以及相關的部會國科會事實上也有在考慮加疫可能是需要包括我們要有再生水廠包括未來可能要有這一個海蛋廠\n\n05:50.240 --> 05:52.741\n我想這些都是變成嘉義要邁向我們要有一些科技產業的佈局那我們需要有這個水的一個供應的一個無餘那如果我們要投入再生水廠的話那我想要請教部長的就是說我們再生水廠的\n\n06:08.689 --> 06:12.333\n範圍是不是可以把我們相關因為嘉義科學園區旁邊就是馬酬後我們是不是可以把馬酬後也納入所謂再生水的一個範圍那以提高未來這些科技廠它需要再生水的一個水量\n\n06:25.007 --> 06:48.372\n是那這個部分應該就是說不要只科學園國科會只管科學園區那委員講得很好就是說如果附近的這些可以連在一起來思考這個再生水的話那會比較有效率可以再提高因為嘉義的科學園區跟馬籌後大概距離不到不到3公里啦它相對是很近的所以我們可以如果把這兩個園區用一個一個大\n\n06:52.093 --> 07:03.862\n大的同心圓的概念把它都納入所謂再生水那我想未來任何科技廠它需要使用再生水它的水源會更多是這個我們在跨部會討論的時候我們會提出來好那當然就是最後還是要\n\n07:09.772 --> 07:12.633\n拜託部長把我們加以到新酒啦這個替我們再繼續美顏啦那我想我們嘉義也希望像邱委員一樣所說的就是說我們半導體的整個產業的南帶南台灣這邊是一個整體佈局嘛那這個整體佈局咧大概最北端就是嘉義啊\n\n07:30.620 --> 07:41.343\n就是整個藍科創造的這個半導體的藍帶那我們嘉義應該也是要加入這一份子好不好是是好謝謝謝謝韋恩好謝謝不是嘉義就是高雄\n\n","segments":[{"start":10.08,"end":14.622,"text":"好 謝謝主席那我們是不是有請我們經濟部我們王部長經濟部王部長好 委員好部長好部長呢因為我前幾天也有跟你反映因為現在中國對於這個半導體這個晶圓廠他們現在叫做攻擊性投資那這個他們這個攻擊性投資他們是針對所謂的成熟製程而不是像台積電這樣的先進製程"},{"start":39.051,"end":59.33,"text":"那他們大量的在成熟製程裡面要去搶工他們的市佔率那他們也抓住他們的目標就是今年就要從29%把它拉到33%那相對的成熟製程我們的市佔率可能會因為中國的搶工市場那我們的市佔率會下降"},{"start":62.592,"end":81.522,"text":"2024年底中國還預計要成立三四二座大型的一個晶圓廠那我現在比較擔心的就是說當中國在做這樣攻擊性投資半導體的成熟製程的這個階段我們想像中國的官方他們因為會用補助然後去壓低他們的成本"},{"start":82.202,"end":97.238,"text":"那如果在這樣的情勢之下未來我們會不會擔心半導體的成熟製程會像過去的LED啦或者是類似太陽能的相關的組件因為中國用所謂的銷價競爭的模式然後讓我們台灣的競爭力逐漸下降"},{"start":103.247,"end":106.469,"text":"謝謝委員那這個也確實是國際社會上非常關切的議題那對台灣來講這個在成熟製程這個部分我們有幾個方向一個就是說即使是成熟製程我們希望它更多的是成熟裡面的特殊製程"},{"start":120.615,"end":126.036,"text":"那特殊製程呢他其實都要跟客戶要做相對接的這個研發跟驗測那這樣的話才能夠確保說那我們仍然持續可以當作國際的重要供應鏈那第二個部分呢從明年開始的精創計畫呢也希望對我們的半導體不管是在製造端的或者是在那個IC設計端的呢能夠再往前推進而且再跟國際供應鏈更合作那這個確實是"},{"start":151.384,"end":157.273,"text":"這個民主自由國家大家也都在思考怎麼樣一起合作來應對部長沒有錯就是說現在全世界國家都看到中國為了他們現在"},{"start":163.08,"end":170.664,"text":"他們在現金製程他們大概競爭力拚不過我們台積電所以已經成熟製程這一塊已經大量的去投入他們也是想要用這個當武器去掐住全球半導體的供應鏈因為現在所謂的成熟製程包括車用晶片包括一些AI事實上"},{"start":185.891,"end":198.185,"text":"因為現在的市佔率還是全球的75%以上都是用成熟製程那如果未來這一塊被中國掐住了一個市佔率那他們再用銷價競爭的一個模式我覺得這件事情是應該要被擔心的"},{"start":203.911,"end":228.205,"text":"所以我們除了自己要精進我們相信台灣我們除了台積電護國神山我們還有更多像聯電像力積電他們這些都是護國群山我要跟部長具體建議我具體建議的就是說我們對於成熟製程如果他們的設備或人才台灣的設備或人才要輸往中國"},{"start":230.726,"end":235.81,"text":"要輸往中國那如果中國的這個廠商他們背後有官方色彩的話我覺得我們至少要要有被查或者是審查這兩個強度當然並不是不讓他過去但是他要過去的時候至少要讓我們經濟部可以精準的抓到哪一些設備商可能會跟中國的攻擊性投資會去兜在一起這件事情我覺得部長"},{"start":259.306,"end":264.469,"text":"是不是我們應該認真來思考一下做這樣的一個管制那這個也是很輕度的管制那至少保護我們台灣的半導體成熟製程我覺得這個是不是應該來數刻況好謝謝委員那這個有一點細膩那我想這個也需要跟相關的國家一起來協商那不過委員的建議的部分我們會回去來大力來思考"},{"start":284.338,"end":288.799,"text":"我覺得保證這個保安 我們應該要早點防範未然因為我們知道 中國他就不是跟你做公平競爭啊第一個 他們過去的海盜王國 因為什麼啦 他們有可能就把你整個照抄他也不管你所謂的智慧財產權 中國不理這一塊既然不理這一塊的話 如果我們台灣去"},{"start":308.423,"end":324.118,"text":"去參與了他的我們提供設備我們雖然是賣給他設備但是後來他未來他不需要了他就自己做了他就自己做了然後變成台灣去加速了中國成熟製程的進展這個我們要小心好不好部長所以我覺得這塊我們要趕快提出我們台灣的因應措施好不好"},{"start":331.184,"end":347.898,"text":"好第二個就是說我知道說現在經濟部那以及相關的部會國科會事實上也有在考慮加疫可能是需要包括我們要有再生水廠包括未來可能要有這一個海蛋廠"},{"start":350.24,"end":352.741,"text":"我想這些都是變成嘉義要邁向我們要有一些科技產業的佈局那我們需要有這個水的一個供應的一個無餘那如果我們要投入再生水廠的話那我想要請教部長的就是說我們再生水廠的"},{"start":368.689,"end":372.333,"text":"範圍是不是可以把我們相關因為嘉義科學園區旁邊就是馬酬後我們是不是可以把馬酬後也納入所謂再生水的一個範圍那以提高未來這些科技廠它需要再生水的一個水量"},{"start":385.007,"end":408.372,"text":"是那這個部分應該就是說不要只科學園國科會只管科學園區那委員講得很好就是說如果附近的這些可以連在一起來思考這個再生水的話那會比較有效率可以再提高因為嘉義的科學園區跟馬籌後大概距離不到不到3公里啦它相對是很近的所以我們可以如果把這兩個園區用一個一個大"},{"start":412.093,"end":423.862,"text":"大的同心圓的概念把它都納入所謂再生水那我想未來任何科技廠它需要使用再生水它的水源會更多是 這個我們在跨部會討論的時候我們會提出來好 那當然就是最後還是要"},{"start":429.772,"end":432.633,"text":"拜託部長把我們加以到新酒啦這個替我們再繼續美顏啦那我想我們嘉義也希望像邱委員一樣所說的就是說我們半導體的整個產業的南帶南台灣這邊是一個整體佈局嘛那這個整體佈局咧大概最北端就是嘉義啊"},{"start":450.62,"end":461.343,"text":"就是整個藍科創造的這個半導體的藍帶那我們嘉義應該也是要加入這一份子好不好是是好謝謝謝謝韋恩好謝謝不是嘉義就是高雄"}]}}}}