{"id":148949,"url":"https://ivod.ly.gov.tw/Play/Clip/1M/148949","video_url":"https://ivod-lyvod.cdn.hinet.net/vod_1/_definst_/mp4:1MClips/a0ee4ec253a72029daeec09b911980edbdc0b11ed89c5ff9c986728e607a0322530e3db8d85c974a5ea18f28b6918d91.mp4/playlist.m3u8","委員名稱":"沈發惠","委員發言時間":"09:51:38 - 10:03:34","影片長度":"00:11:56","會議時間":"2023-12-11T09:00:00+08:00","會議名稱":"立法院第10屆第8會期財政委員會第20次全體委員會議（事由：一、邀請金融監督管理委員會黃主任委員天牧就（一）「開放銀行」（Open Banking）政策之回顧與展望（二）純網銀、純網保之發展與挑戰進行專題報告，並備質詢。\n二、審查本院民進黨黨團擬具「中央政府總預算案審查程序第三條條文修正草案」案。\n【12月11日及13日二天一次會】）","meet":{"tmpMeeting":null,"title":"第10屆第8會期財政委員會第20次全體委員會議","term":10,"type":"委員會","sessionPeriod":8,"sessionTimes":20,"committees":[20],"id":"委員會-10-8-20-20"},"date":"2023-12-11","duration":716,"end_time":"2023-12-11T10:03:34+08:00","start_time":"2023-12-11T09:51:38+08:00","features":["gazette"],"type":"Clip","gazette":{"lineno":243,"blocks":[["沈委員發惠：（9時51分）主席，請金管會黃主委。"],["主席：請黃主委。"],["黃主任委員天牧：召委早。"],["沈委員發惠：主委早。我們今天所列的專題報告主題，除了剛剛已經有一些委員討論的純網保、純網銀的發展以外，另外一個部分就是有關我們開放銀行政策的回顧跟展望。有關我們的開放銀行政策，包括你今天的書面報告，就是我們在開放銀行部分是分為三個階段來辦理，第一個階段大概單純是公開資料、公開資訊的揭露，第二個階段則是在這些個資的部分，要進入第三階段就牽涉到交易面了，對不對？我這樣理解對不對？"],["黃主任委員天牧：是的，比較牽涉到個人交易面的敏感資訊。"],["沈委員發惠：就不只是資訊了，它是交易面了，這才是第三階段嘛，前二個階段都是資訊啦，都是公開的資訊或者是個人資訊。大概在108年9月（2019年9月）第一個階段就已經開始做了，是公開資料查詢，109年12月是第二個階段，是消費者資訊查詢，大概都可以，我們接下來，以我的理解，以你的報告，我們要在今年年底要實施第三階段，是不是？要進入第三階段了？"],["黃主任委員天牧：是這樣子，報告中是說我們做好自律規範跟資安相關的機制，把它報備之後，要讓社會大眾向銀行業者瞭解。"],["沈委員發惠：我們預計什麼時候？在這邊講好了，預計什麼時候？"],["黃主任委員天牧：恐怕應該要到明年上半年了，如果有業者願意去做的話。"],["沈委員發惠：明年上半年？"],["黃主任委員天牧：對，6月以前。"],["沈委員發惠：那我們自己的準備工作，包括我們公會所做的第三階段有關交易部分的自律規範，是不是我們已經擬定出來了？"],["黃主任委員天牧：有，就是年底前我們會核備。"],["沈委員發惠：年底前會核備？"],["黃主任委員天牧：今年年底前會核備。"],["沈委員發惠：他們送給我們了嗎？"],["黃主任委員天牧：應該有，有。"],["沈委員發惠：好，送給我們了，它跟第二階段的自律規範有沒有什麼樣的差別？一模一樣還是……"],["黃主任委員天牧：應該比較複雜，主要是交易面、資安面等方面牽涉到……"],["沈委員發惠：對，因為牽涉到交易面，但是我沒有看到……"],["黃主任委員天牧：請局長說明一下。"],["莊局長琇媛：報告委員，因為第三階段是交易要發動，所以其實資安就非常重要，現在公會訂的以及財金公司訂的資安及技術的標準裡面，會針對哪些可以開放做交易訂出一些項目，以及應該注意的個資還有資安的一些標準。"],["沈委員發惠：你沒有回答我的問題啦，我是說他們已經送來了，你們看過了沒有？現在新的、針對第三階段的自律規範跟原本第二階段的自律規範相比有沒有改變？"],["黃主任委員天牧：請局長講。"],["沈委員發惠：就是針對交易的部分，有沒有更加嚴謹？"],["莊局長琇媛：報告委員，裡面其實有幾項重點，就是說……"],["沈委員發惠：你跟我講有沒有改變就好了。"],["莊局長琇媛：有，有改變。"],["沈委員發惠：好。因為我在看這個，主委，我們第一階段只是單純公開資訊查詢的時候，有27家金融機構及6家TSP業者參與；到第二階段開始要揭露個資的時候，就縮到剩下17家金融機構參與，也就是有10家他說我公開資訊可以，但是要到個資，他就不參與開放銀行這部分了，TSP業者也從6家縮成2家。以這樣的作法來看，我們在一開始第一階段實施光是公開資訊，我們有38家金融業者，只有27家參加，有11家不願意參加開放銀行的公開資訊的部分；接下來就要進入第三階段，在第三階段的部分，我們預計會有多少家來參與呢？這部分我們有沒有瞭解。"],["黃主任委員天牧：我想家數應該不會像第一階段那麼多，主要是因為交易面牽涉到的資訊特別敏感，所以大家是不是信任那個TSP業者、TSP業者願不願意做都是一個因素。"],["沈委員發惠：對，主委，你講到重點了，大家信不信任TSP業者，你講的金融機構這麼專業都不知道信不信任了，更何況消費者，這是一個三方的關係……"],["黃主任委員天牧：是。"],["沈委員發惠：這是金融業者跟TSP業者以及消費者三方的關係，對不對？"],["黃主任委員天牧：是。"],["沈委員發惠：三方的關係中，如果連金融業者對TSP業者都還有一些疑慮的話，那消費者要怎麼相信，他要如何信任這個平臺呢？"],["黃主任委員天牧：誠如您剛剛也垂詢的，所以我們對於公會跟財經的規範才會不一樣……"],["沈委員發惠：現在有二個部分，公會是自律規範的部分……"],["黃主任委員天牧：是。"],["沈委員發惠：財經公司是針對，因為它完全是線上的東西，我們對於它的資安的要求一定是最重要的，尤其要進入交易層面更重視資安的要求，但是我們知道，依照現在的法令，我們的銀行金融業者本身，因為是國家基礎建設，所以我們對它的資安要求等級是最高的，對不對？"],["黃主任委員天牧：是。"],["沈委員發惠：是最高的，但是我們對TSP業者的資安要求有到這個等級嗎？"],["黃主任委員天牧：TSP業者必須透過銀行與其之間的關係去制約它，而不是透過我們。"],["沈委員發惠：對，我們對於TSP業者的資安要求有到銀行這個等級嗎？"],["黃主任委員天牧：沒有。對。"],["沈委員發惠：沒有嘛！對啊！但是事實上它在做同樣的事，它必須可以存款、可以扣款、可以交易、可以做帳戶的變動。"],["黃主任委員天牧：不過像第二階段是集保跟遠傳，這個部分集保當然就是我們的周邊單位，相對大家比較，我覺得……"],["沈委員發惠：所以我的意思是在資安技術層面的要求上，我們認為你至少在要進入第三階段的時候，對於這些TSP業者的資安要求應該要有所提升，至少TSP業者是不是有設專業的資安人員，這個我們都不知道，目前也沒有規範、沒有要求，更何況如果萬一這些TSP業者的網路服務是委外，它再委外進行網路服務的話，那這些網路服務作業的資安要求層級就更低了。"],["黃主任委員天牧：委員，非常感謝您今天提出這些提醒，因為我自己沒有看到它在局裡審查，我回去之後會立刻找局裡面，就您所垂詢的重點去檢視是不是符合這樣的要求。"],["沈委員發惠：好。一樣是這部分，我要再談的是消費者，如果萬一發生消費爭議，我剛剛講過，它是三方關係，是消費者、TSP業者跟金融機關三方的關係，它有3個合約的關係，但卻在一次交易行為裡面完成，之後如果萬一發生消費爭議的時候，他有什麼樣的申訴管道？這部分也非常重要。我看到目前現在到第二階段的銀行公約自律規範，其中第十條規定有關消費爭議，於一定金額內由會員銀行先行給付給消費者，就是發生糾紛之後，銀行先給付給消費者，但是這個一定金額是多少是各銀行自訂，自己訂多少金額還是公會大家有一個規定說在多少金額之下，金融機構必須先行承受？"],["黃主任委員天牧：2萬塊錢，報告委員。"],["沈委員發惠：目前我知道，這2萬塊是我們規定的？"],["黃主任委員天牧：是公會訂的。"],["沈委員發惠：公會規定2萬塊？"],["黃主任委員天牧：對。"],["沈委員發惠：因為我看到臺灣企銀跟第一銀行在網頁上面，他們有公開說2萬塊錢他們會先支付，但其他的銀行都沒有揭露這些訊息，我不知道其他銀行的金額是多少。"],["黃主任委員天牧：我們會要求他揭露，這是公會訂定的。"],["沈委員發惠：再來，有關爭議發生時的處理機制，主委，目前我們民眾如果跟銀行之間發生消費糾紛，可依照金融消費者保護法受到保護，會有一個評議的程序，但是我如果透過TSP平臺，它所適用的法規，按照自律公會第三條裡面提到，如果有爭議，他是受到消費者保護法的保護，他是受到比較低階的消費者保護法的保護，但是我如果是跟銀行發生糾紛則受到金融消費者保護法的保護，這部分我們是不是應該要請銀行自律公會，在他們的自律規範裡面把它提升到金融消費者保護的層級？"],["黃主任委員天牧：好，委員您垂詢的部分，我們也一併去檢討。"],["沈委員發惠：這部分我認為是應該啦！"],["黃主任委員天牧：是。"],["沈委員發惠：最後一點時間，兩個禮拜之前金管會曾經發布新聞稿，呼籲民眾有關資金借貸或債務協商等需求勿輕信代辦業者，金管會在11月29號有發這樣子的新聞稿，對不對？"],["黃主任委員天牧：有，謝謝。"],["沈委員發惠：事實上過去10年金管會發了十幾次這樣的新聞稿，但是我們在電視上還是有看到一些代辦業者的廣告、電視廣告都有，不是所有的代辦業者都是非法的，可能有一些是合法的，例如銀行所委託的，銀行自己委託辦理房貸、車貸、委外辦理行銷業務受委託的機構，這個可能就是合法的代辦業者，因為代辦業者在法律上，在我們所有的規則裡面，我們也看到代辦業者的定義，對不對？主委，現在……"],["黃主任委員天牧：我們下一次做宣導的時候把它定義清楚，是什麼樣的情況之下的代辦業者民眾要小心。"],["沈委員發惠：對，你們那天所發的新聞稿，你們在新聞稿的最下面有提供一個資訊，說如果民眾有需求，可以利用中華民國銀行商業同業公會全國聯合會網站貸款免費資訊專區，點進去這個專區，你們新聞稿裡面這樣講，結果我點進去這個專區裡面，我看它裡面有關業者行銷的檔案再點進去，我再點進去看，裡面的資料是102年的，是11年前的資料。"],["黃主任委員天牧：報告委員，這個不應該，我們回去立刻去調整，謝謝。"],["沈委員發惠：我的時間到了，這部分我要跟主委講，像這種我們發布新聞提醒消費者小心，但是我們卻沒有提供真正讓消費者能夠清楚如何受到保護的資訊，這樣很不應該。"],["黃主任委員天牧：是，委員，這個的確不應該這樣子，我們會立刻改進，謝謝委員指導。謝謝。"],["沈委員發惠：好。謝謝。"],["主席：謝謝。主委請回座。下一位請李貴敏委員質詢。"]],"agenda":{"page_end":342,"meet_id":"委員會-10-8-20-20","speakers":["沈發惠","林德福","吳秉叡","賴士葆","李貴敏","郭國文","費鴻泰","鍾佳濱","高嘉瑜","陳椒華","林楚茵","羅明才"],"page_start":293,"meetingDate":["2023-12-11"],"gazette_id":"1130201","agenda_lcidc_ids":["1130201_00005"],"meet_name":"立法院第10屆第8會期財政委員會第20次全體委員會議紀錄","content":"一、邀請金融監督管理委員會黃主任委員天牧就（一）「開放銀行」（Open 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00:00:03,770\n主委早我們今天的這個主題今天所列的這個專題報告主題除了剛剛已經有一些委員討論的這個有關存網保存網銀的這些發展以外另外一個部分就是有關我們開放銀行政策的回顧跟展望\n\n2\n00:00:30,827 --> 00:00:53,543\n我看我們開放銀行的政策我們大概包括你今天的書面報告我們是在開放銀行部分分為三個階段來辦理第一個階段第一個階段大概就是單純是公開資料公開資訊的揭露第二個階段則就是在這些個資的部分\n\n3\n00:00:54,488 --> 00:01:12,184\n那要進入這個第三階段就是牽涉到交易面了對不對我這樣理解比較牽涉到個人交易面的更敏感的資訊就不只是資訊了還是交易面了這才是第三階段前兩個階段都是資訊都是公開的資訊或者是個人資訊\n\n4\n00:01:15,613 --> 00:01:41,154\n大概在這個108年9月2019年9月大概第一個階段就已經開始做了公開資料的查詢那在109年12月就是第二個階段有消費者的資訊的查詢大概都可以那我們接下來以我的理解是要在今年就是今年年底要實施第三階段是不是要進入第三階段\n\n5\n00:01:42,006 --> 00:02:02,784\n是這樣子報告中說是我們說好自律規範跟資安相關的機制把它報備之後呢要讓社會大眾像銀行業者了解我們預計什麼時候在這邊講好了恐怕要做應該到明年上半年如果有業者願意去做的話明年上半年那我們自己的準備工作包括這個這個\n\n6\n00:02:06,190 --> 00:02:30,402\n我們工會所做的這個第三階段有關交易部分的這個這個自律規範是不是已經有我們有沒有已經擬定出來了有就是年底前我們會核備年底前會核備今年年底會核備他們送給我們的嗎應該有好送給我們的他跟第二階段的這個自律規範有沒有什麼樣的差別一模一樣還是\n\n7\n00:02:31,741 --> 00:02:38,389\n應該比較複雜主要是交易面資安面方面對因為它牽涉到交易面但是我沒有看到它局長說明一下\n\n8\n00:02:41,659 --> 00:03:02,757\n報告委員因為第三階段是交易要發動所以其實資安就非常重要所以現在在那個工會定的還有財經公司定的資安還有技術的標準裡面會針對說哪些可以開放作為交易會定出一些項目來然後應該注意的個資還有資安的一些標準好\n\n9\n00:03:06,100 --> 00:03:31,519\n這個你們有沒有回答我的問題啦我是說他們已經送來了你們不知道看過了沒有他的內容他現在的新的針對第三階段的這個自律規範跟原本第二階段的自律規範他有沒有改變有沒有更加嚴謹這針對交易的部分報委員裡面其實有幾項重點啦就是說你跟我講有沒有改變就好了有有有改變因為我這看齁這個\n\n10\n00:03:33,806 --> 00:04:01,357\n主委我們第一階段第一階段只是單純公開資訊查詢的時候有27家金融機構來參與有6家TSP業者參與到第二階段開始要揭露個資的時候就縮到剩下17家金融機構參與也就是10家他說我公開資訊可以但是你要到個資他就不參與這個開放銀行的部分了\n\n11\n00:04:04,261 --> 00:04:06,888\n那這個TSP業者也從六家縮成兩家\n\n12\n00:04:09,997 --> 00:04:31,998\n以這樣子的做法看我們在一開始第一階段實施光是公開資訊我們有38家金融業者27家參加有11家他不願意參加這公開資訊的這個開放銀行的部分那我們接下來現在就要進入第三階段在第三階段的部分我們預計會有多少家來參與的這我們有沒有了解\n\n13\n00:04:32,984 --> 00:04:57,421\n我想加速應該不會像第一階段那麼多因為主要是因為交易面牽涉到的資訊特別的敏感所以大家是不是信任那個TSP業者TSP業者願不願意做都是一個因素對主委你講到重點了大家信不信任這個TSP業者這個你講的這個金融機構這麼專業都不知道信不信任了更何況消費者這是一個三方的關係這是金融業者這個\n\n14\n00:05:00,103 --> 00:05:16,822\n金融業者跟這個TSP業者跟這個消費者三方的關係對不對是三方的關係如果說連金融業者他對這個TSP業者他都還有一些疑慮的話那消費者要怎麼相信這些他要怎麼如何信任這個平台呢\n\n15\n00:05:18,035 --> 00:05:41,547\n所以我們陳文寧剛剛也垂詢的所以在我們對於工會跟財經的規範才會不一樣工會是自律規範的部分財經公司是針對因為他這個是完全是線上的他的資安我們對他資安的要求這個是一定是最重要尤其要進入交易層面這個資安的要求但是我們知道依照現在的法令\n\n16\n00:05:42,347 --> 00:05:56,678\n依照現在的法令我們銀行金融業者本身因為是國家基礎建設所以我們對他的資安要求等級是最高的對不對是最高的但是我們對TSP業者我們的資安要求有到這個等級嗎\n\n17\n00:05:58,971 --> 00:06:17,736\nTSP業者必須要透過銀行去跟他之間去制約他不是透過我們我們對於TSP業者的資安要求有到銀行這個等級嗎沒有啊沒有嘛對啊但他事實上他在做同樣同樣的這個他必須可以存款可以扣款可以交易可以做這個帳戶的變動\n\n18\n00:06:20,814 --> 00:06:42,920\n不過就是像第二階段是吉寶跟遠傳那這部分吉寶當然是我們的周邊單位啦那相對比較大家比較我覺得我的意思是說在這個資安的要求資安技術層面的要求上面我們認為說你至少在要進入第三階段的時候對於這些TSP業者他的資安的要求\n\n19\n00:06:43,740 --> 00:07:06,398\n應該要有所提升至少TSP業者他是不是有涉專業的資安人員這個我們都不知道目前也沒有規範沒有要求更何況如果萬一這些TSP業者他的網路服務是委外他在委外進行網路服務的話那這些網路服務的作業他的資安的要求成績就更低了\n\n20\n00:07:07,401 --> 00:07:36,076\n委員非常感謝您今天提出來這些提醒因為我自己沒有看到還在局裡審查我回去之後會立刻找局裡面就您所垂詢的重點去檢視是不是符合這樣的一個要求好那在一樣這個部分再跟你談這個消費者如果萬一發生消費者爭議啦我剛剛講過它是三方關係嘛是消費者、TSP業者跟金融機關三方的關係它有三個合約有三個合約的關係但卻在一次交易行為裡面完成\n\n21\n00:07:37,288 --> 00:08:04,347\n這個之後如果萬一發生消費爭議的時候它有什麼樣的申訴管道這個東西也非常重要我現在看到這個我們目前的現在到第二階段的銀行公會的自律規範它有規定說它第十條裡面有規定說有關消費爭議於一定金額內由會員銀行先行給付給消費者發生糾紛之後銀行先給付給消費者但是這個一定金額是多少是各銀行制定\n\n22\n00:08:05,288 --> 00:08:13,294\n自己訂多少金額還是我們公會大家有一個規定的說在多少金額之下你這個金融機構必須先享受這個局長兩萬塊錢兩萬塊錢報告委員目前我知道兩萬塊是我們規定的\n\n23\n00:08:19,031 --> 00:08:36,002\n是工會訂的工會規定兩萬塊因為我有看到啦我有看到這個台灣企業跟地域銀行在網頁上面他們有公開說兩萬塊錢他們會先支付那其他的銀行都沒有揭露這些訊息我不知道其他銀行在多少我們會要求大家揭露這是工會訂定的\n\n24\n00:08:36,903 --> 00:08:53,575\n再來有關發生爭議的時候的這些處理機制主委現在我們的這些銀行我們目前銀行我如果是跟銀行之間發生消費糾紛我是依照這個金融消費者保護法金融消費者保護法受到保護我有一個評議的程序\n\n25\n00:08:54,415 --> 00:09:19,462\n但是我如果透過這個TSP平台他所使用的這個法規我們按照他的自律公會的這個第三條他裡面提到如果有這些爭議他是受到消費者保護法的保護他是受到比較低階的消費者保護法的保護但是我如果是跟銀行我是受到金融消費者保護法的保護\n\n26\n00:09:20,994 --> 00:09:33,748\n這部分我們是不是應該要請這個銀行自律公會他們的這個自律規範裡面把他提升到金融消費者保護的層級啊好我原聽崔君的部分我們也一併去檢討\n\n27\n00:09:35,320 --> 00:09:39,022\n這部分我認為是應該啦最後一點時間我們兩個禮拜之前我們金管會曾經發布過呼籲民眾勿輕信代辦業者有關資金或債務協商等需求貸款勿輕信代辦業者\n\n28\n00:09:56,755 --> 00:10:14,834\n我們在11月29號有發這樣子的新聞稿對不對有謝謝我們事實上過去10年我們發了10幾次的這樣子的新聞稿啦但是我覺得這個代辦業者我們還是看到在電視上看到有一些代辦業者的廣告啊電視廣告都有啊那到底呢\n\n29\n00:10:15,711 --> 00:10:35,124\n不是說代辦業者都是非法可能他原先是合法的例如說銀行所委託的銀行自己委託的辦理這個房貸車貸委外辦理行銷業務受委託的機構這個可能就是合法的代辦業者因為代辦業者在法律上在所有的我們規則裡面我沒有看到代辦業者的定義啊對不對\n\n30\n00:10:37,199 --> 00:11:00,048\n我們下一次做宣導的時候把它定義清楚是什麼樣的情況之下的代辦業者民眾要小心那你們那天所發的新聞稿你們最後在新聞稿的最後最下面有提供一個說如果有民眾的需求可以這個利用中華民國銀行商業同業公會全合聯合網站貸款免費資訊專區點進去這個專區\n\n31\n00:11:03,716 --> 00:11:08,802\n你們新聞稿這樣講結果我點進去這個專區裡面我看它裡面有關這個業者行銷的這個檔案再點進去我再點進去看裡面的資料是102年了是11年前的資料\n\n32\n00:11:20,814 --> 00:11:42,067\n不過委員這個不應該我們回去立刻去調整這個部分我時間到了但是我要跟主委講說這些我們有一些事情我們像這種我們發布新聞提醒消費者小心但是我們卻沒有提供真正讓消費者能夠清楚如何收到保護的這些資訊這樣很不應該是委員這個的確不應該這樣子我們會立刻改進謝謝委員指導好謝謝謝謝主委請回座\n\n33\n00:11:50,312 --> 00:11:53,637\n下一位请李贵明委员咨询\n\n","tsv":"start\tend\ttext\n9\t3770\t主委早我們今天的這個主題今天所列的這個專題報告主題除了剛剛已經有一些委員討論的這個有關存網保存網銀的這些發展以外另外一個部分就是有關我們開放銀行政策的回顧跟展望\n30827\t53543\t我看我們開放銀行的政策我們大概包括你今天的書面報告我們是在開放銀行部分分為三個階段來辦理第一個階段第一個階段大概就是單純是公開資料公開資訊的揭露第二個階段則就是在這些個資的部分\n54488\t72184\t那要進入這個第三階段就是牽涉到交易面了對不對我這樣理解比較牽涉到個人交易面的更敏感的資訊就不只是資訊了還是交易面了這才是第三階段前兩個階段都是資訊都是公開的資訊或者是個人資訊\n75613\t101154\t大概在這個108年9月2019年9月大概第一個階段就已經開始做了公開資料的查詢那在109年12月就是第二個階段有消費者的資訊的查詢大概都可以那我們接下來以我的理解是要在今年就是今年年底要實施第三階段是不是要進入第三階段\n102006\t122784\t是這樣子報告中說是我們說好自律規範跟資安相關的機制把它報備之後呢要讓社會大眾像銀行業者了解我們預計什麼時候在這邊講好了恐怕要做應該到明年上半年如果有業者願意去做的話明年上半年那我們自己的準備工作包括這個這個\n126190\t150402\t我們工會所做的這個第三階段有關交易部分的這個這個自律規範是不是已經有我們有沒有已經擬定出來了有就是年底前我們會核備年底前會核備今年年底會核備他們送給我們的嗎應該有好送給我們的他跟第二階段的這個自律規範有沒有什麼樣的差別一模一樣還是\n151741\t158389\t應該比較複雜 主要是交易面 資安面方面對 因為它牽涉到交易面 但是我沒有看到它局長說明一下\n161659\t182757\t報告委員因為第三階段是交易要發動所以其實資安就非常重要所以現在在那個工會定的還有財經公司定的資安還有技術的標準裡面會針對說哪些可以開放作為交易會定出一些項目來然後應該注意的個資還有資安的一些標準好\n186100\t211519\t這個你們有沒有回答我的問題啦我是說他們已經送來了你們不知道看過了沒有他的內容他現在的新的針對第三階段的這個自律規範跟原本第二階段的自律規範他有沒有改變有沒有更加嚴謹這針對交易的部分報委員裡面其實有幾項重點啦就是說你跟我講有沒有改變就好了有有有改變因為我這看齁這個\n213806\t241357\t主委我們第一階段第一階段只是單純公開資訊查詢的時候有27家金融機構來參與有6家TSP業者參與到第二階段開始要揭露個資的時候就縮到剩下17家金融機構參與也就是10家他說我公開資訊可以但是你要到個資他就不參與這個開放銀行的部分了\n244261\t246888\t那這個TSP業者也從六家縮成兩家\n249997\t271998\t以這樣子的做法看我們在一開始第一階段實施光是公開資訊我們有38家金融業者27家參加有11家他不願意參加這公開資訊的這個開放銀行的部分那我們接下來現在就要進入第三階段在第三階段的部分我們預計會有多少家來參與的這我們有沒有了解\n272984\t297421\t我想加速應該不會像第一階段那麼多因為主要是因為交易面牽涉到的資訊特別的敏感所以大家是不是信任那個TSP業者TSP業者願不願意做都是一個因素對 主委你講到重點了大家信不信任這個TSP業者這個你講的這個金融機構這麼專業都不知道信不信任了更何況消費者這是一個三方的關係這是金融業者這個\n300103\t316822\t金融業者跟這個TSP業者跟這個消費者三方的關係對不對是三方的關係如果說連金融業者他對這個TSP業者他都還有一些疑慮的話那消費者要怎麼相信這些他要怎麼如何信任這個平台呢\n318035\t341547\t所以我們陳文寧剛剛也垂詢的所以在我們對於工會跟財經的規範才會不一樣工會是自律規範的部分財經公司是針對因為他這個是完全是線上的他的資安我們對他資安的要求這個是一定是最重要尤其要進入交易層面這個資安的要求但是我們知道依照現在的法令\n342347\t356678\t依照現在的法令我們銀行金融業者本身因為是國家基礎建設所以我們對他的資安要求等級是最高的對不對是最高的但是我們對TSP業者我們的資安要求有到這個等級嗎\n358971\t377736\tTSP業者必須要透過銀行去跟他之間去制約他不是透過我們我們對於TSP業者的資安要求有到銀行這個等級嗎沒有啊沒有嘛 對啊但他事實上他在做同樣同樣的這個他必須可以存款可以扣款可以交易可以做這個帳戶的變動\n380814\t402920\t不過就是像第二階段是吉寶跟遠傳那這部分吉寶當然是我們的周邊單位啦那相對比較大家比較我覺得我的意思是說在這個資安的要求資安技術層面的要求上面我們認為說你至少在要進入第三階段的時候對於這些TSP業者他的資安的要求\n403740\t426398\t應該要有所提升至少TSP業者他是不是有涉專業的資安人員這個我們都不知道目前也沒有規範沒有要求更何況如果萬一這些TSP業者他的網路服務是委外他在委外進行網路服務的話那這些網路服務的作業他的資安的要求成績就更低了\n427401\t456076\t委員非常感謝您今天提出來這些提醒因為我自己沒有看到還在局裡審查我回去之後會立刻找局裡面就您所垂詢的重點去檢視是不是符合這樣的一個要求好那在一樣這個部分再跟你談這個消費者如果萬一發生消費者爭議啦我剛剛講過它是三方關係嘛是消費者、TSP業者跟金融機關三方的關係它有三個合約有三個合約的關係但卻在一次交易行為裡面完成\n457288\t484347\t這個之後如果萬一發生消費爭議的時候它有什麼樣的申訴管道這個東西也非常重要我現在看到這個我們目前的現在到第二階段的銀行公會的自律規範它有規定說它第十條裡面有規定說有關消費爭議於一定金額內由會員銀行先行給付給消費者發生糾紛之後銀行先給付給消費者但是這個一定金額是多少是各銀行制定\n485288\t493294\t自己訂多少金額還是我們公會大家有一個規定的說在多少金額之下你這個金融機構必須先享受這個局長兩萬塊錢兩萬塊錢報告委員目前我知道兩萬塊是我們規定的\n499031\t516002\t是 工會訂的工會規定兩萬塊因為我有看到啦 我有看到這個台灣企業跟地域銀行在網頁上面他們有公開說兩萬塊錢他們會先支付那其他的銀行都沒有揭露這些訊息我不知道其他銀行在多少我們會要求大家揭露這是工會訂定的\n516903\t533575\t再來有關發生爭議的時候的這些處理機制主委現在我們的這些銀行我們目前銀行我如果是跟銀行之間發生消費糾紛我是依照這個金融消費者保護法金融消費者保護法受到保護我有一個評議的程序\n534415\t559462\t但是我如果透過這個TSP平台他所使用的這個法規我們按照他的自律公會的這個第三條他裡面提到如果有這些爭議他是受到消費者保護法的保護他是受到比較低階的消費者保護法的保護但是我如果是跟銀行我是受到金融消費者保護法的保護\n560994\t573748\t這部分我們是不是應該要請這個銀行自律公會他們的這個自律規範裡面把他提升到金融消費者保護的層級啊好 我原聽崔君的部分我們也一併去檢討\n575320\t579022\t這部分我認為是應該啦最後一點時間我們兩個禮拜之前我們金管會曾經發布過呼籲民眾勿輕信代辦業者有關資金或債務協商等需求貸款勿輕信代辦業者\n596755\t614834\t我們在11月29號有發這樣子的新聞稿對不對有 謝謝我們事實上過去10年我們發了10幾次的這樣子的新聞稿啦但是我覺得這個代辦業者我們還是看到在電視上看到有一些代辦業者的廣告啊電視廣告都有啊那到底呢\n615711\t635124\t不是說代辦業者都是非法可能他原先是合法的例如說銀行所委託的銀行自己委託的辦理這個房貸車貸委外辦理行銷業務受委託的機構這個可能就是合法的代辦業者因為代辦業者在法律上在所有的我們規則裡面我沒有看到代辦業者的定義啊對不對\n637199\t660048\t我們下一次做宣導的時候把它定義清楚是什麼樣的情況之下的代辦業者民眾要小心那你們那天所發的新聞稿你們最後在新聞稿的最後最下面有提供一個說如果有民眾的需求可以這個利用中華民國銀行商業同業公會全合聯合網站貸款免費資訊專區點進去這個專區\n663716\t668802\t你們新聞稿這樣講結果我點進去這個專區裡面我看它裡面有關這個業者行銷的這個檔案再點進去我再點進去看裡面的資料是102年了是11年前的資料\n680814\t702067\t不過委員這個不應該我們回去立刻去調整這個部分我時間到了但是我要跟主委講說這些我們有一些事情我們像這種我們發布新聞提醒消費者小心但是我們卻沒有提供真正讓消費者能夠清楚如何收到保護的這些資訊這樣很不應該是委員這個的確不應該這樣子我們會立刻改進謝謝委員指導好謝謝謝謝主委請回座\n710312\t713637\t下一位请李贵明委员咨询\n","txt":"主委早我們今天的這個主題今天所列的這個專題報告主題除了剛剛已經有一些委員討論的這個有關存網保存網銀的這些發展以外另外一個部分就是有關我們開放銀行政策的回顧跟展望\n我看我們開放銀行的政策我們大概包括你今天的書面報告我們是在開放銀行部分分為三個階段來辦理第一個階段第一個階段大概就是單純是公開資料公開資訊的揭露第二個階段則就是在這些個資的部分\n那要進入這個第三階段就是牽涉到交易面了對不對我這樣理解比較牽涉到個人交易面的更敏感的資訊就不只是資訊了還是交易面了這才是第三階段前兩個階段都是資訊都是公開的資訊或者是個人資訊\n大概在這個108年9月2019年9月大概第一個階段就已經開始做了公開資料的查詢那在109年12月就是第二個階段有消費者的資訊的查詢大概都可以那我們接下來以我的理解是要在今年就是今年年底要實施第三階段是不是要進入第三階段\n是這樣子報告中說是我們說好自律規範跟資安相關的機制把它報備之後呢要讓社會大眾像銀行業者了解我們預計什麼時候在這邊講好了恐怕要做應該到明年上半年如果有業者願意去做的話明年上半年那我們自己的準備工作包括這個這個\n我們工會所做的這個第三階段有關交易部分的這個這個自律規範是不是已經有我們有沒有已經擬定出來了有就是年底前我們會核備年底前會核備今年年底會核備他們送給我們的嗎應該有好送給我們的他跟第二階段的這個自律規範有沒有什麼樣的差別一模一樣還是\n應該比較複雜 主要是交易面 資安面方面對 因為它牽涉到交易面 但是我沒有看到它局長說明一下\n報告委員因為第三階段是交易要發動所以其實資安就非常重要所以現在在那個工會定的還有財經公司定的資安還有技術的標準裡面會針對說哪些可以開放作為交易會定出一些項目來然後應該注意的個資還有資安的一些標準好\n這個你們有沒有回答我的問題啦我是說他們已經送來了你們不知道看過了沒有他的內容他現在的新的針對第三階段的這個自律規範跟原本第二階段的自律規範他有沒有改變有沒有更加嚴謹這針對交易的部分報委員裡面其實有幾項重點啦就是說你跟我講有沒有改變就好了有有有改變因為我這看齁這個\n主委我們第一階段第一階段只是單純公開資訊查詢的時候有27家金融機構來參與有6家TSP業者參與到第二階段開始要揭露個資的時候就縮到剩下17家金融機構參與也就是10家他說我公開資訊可以但是你要到個資他就不參與這個開放銀行的部分了\n那這個TSP業者也從六家縮成兩家\n以這樣子的做法看我們在一開始第一階段實施光是公開資訊我們有38家金融業者27家參加有11家他不願意參加這公開資訊的這個開放銀行的部分那我們接下來現在就要進入第三階段在第三階段的部分我們預計會有多少家來參與的這我們有沒有了解\n我想加速應該不會像第一階段那麼多因為主要是因為交易面牽涉到的資訊特別的敏感所以大家是不是信任那個TSP業者TSP業者願不願意做都是一個因素對 主委你講到重點了大家信不信任這個TSP業者這個你講的這個金融機構這麼專業都不知道信不信任了更何況消費者這是一個三方的關係這是金融業者這個\n金融業者跟這個TSP業者跟這個消費者三方的關係對不對是三方的關係如果說連金融業者他對這個TSP業者他都還有一些疑慮的話那消費者要怎麼相信這些他要怎麼如何信任這個平台呢\n所以我們陳文寧剛剛也垂詢的所以在我們對於工會跟財經的規範才會不一樣工會是自律規範的部分財經公司是針對因為他這個是完全是線上的他的資安我們對他資安的要求這個是一定是最重要尤其要進入交易層面這個資安的要求但是我們知道依照現在的法令\n依照現在的法令我們銀行金融業者本身因為是國家基礎建設所以我們對他的資安要求等級是最高的對不對是最高的但是我們對TSP業者我們的資安要求有到這個等級嗎\nTSP業者必須要透過銀行去跟他之間去制約他不是透過我們我們對於TSP業者的資安要求有到銀行這個等級嗎沒有啊沒有嘛 對啊但他事實上他在做同樣同樣的這個他必須可以存款可以扣款可以交易可以做這個帳戶的變動\n不過就是像第二階段是吉寶跟遠傳那這部分吉寶當然是我們的周邊單位啦那相對比較大家比較我覺得我的意思是說在這個資安的要求資安技術層面的要求上面我們認為說你至少在要進入第三階段的時候對於這些TSP業者他的資安的要求\n應該要有所提升至少TSP業者他是不是有涉專業的資安人員這個我們都不知道目前也沒有規範沒有要求更何況如果萬一這些TSP業者他的網路服務是委外他在委外進行網路服務的話那這些網路服務的作業他的資安的要求成績就更低了\n委員非常感謝您今天提出來這些提醒因為我自己沒有看到還在局裡審查我回去之後會立刻找局裡面就您所垂詢的重點去檢視是不是符合這樣的一個要求好那在一樣這個部分再跟你談這個消費者如果萬一發生消費者爭議啦我剛剛講過它是三方關係嘛是消費者、TSP業者跟金融機關三方的關係它有三個合約有三個合約的關係但卻在一次交易行為裡面完成\n這個之後如果萬一發生消費爭議的時候它有什麼樣的申訴管道這個東西也非常重要我現在看到這個我們目前的現在到第二階段的銀行公會的自律規範它有規定說它第十條裡面有規定說有關消費爭議於一定金額內由會員銀行先行給付給消費者發生糾紛之後銀行先給付給消費者但是這個一定金額是多少是各銀行制定\n自己訂多少金額還是我們公會大家有一個規定的說在多少金額之下你這個金融機構必須先享受這個局長兩萬塊錢兩萬塊錢報告委員目前我知道兩萬塊是我們規定的\n是 工會訂的工會規定兩萬塊因為我有看到啦 我有看到這個台灣企業跟地域銀行在網頁上面他們有公開說兩萬塊錢他們會先支付那其他的銀行都沒有揭露這些訊息我不知道其他銀行在多少我們會要求大家揭露這是工會訂定的\n再來有關發生爭議的時候的這些處理機制主委現在我們的這些銀行我們目前銀行我如果是跟銀行之間發生消費糾紛我是依照這個金融消費者保護法金融消費者保護法受到保護我有一個評議的程序\n但是我如果透過這個TSP平台他所使用的這個法規我們按照他的自律公會的這個第三條他裡面提到如果有這些爭議他是受到消費者保護法的保護他是受到比較低階的消費者保護法的保護但是我如果是跟銀行我是受到金融消費者保護法的保護\n這部分我們是不是應該要請這個銀行自律公會他們的這個自律規範裡面把他提升到金融消費者保護的層級啊好 我原聽崔君的部分我們也一併去檢討\n這部分我認為是應該啦最後一點時間我們兩個禮拜之前我們金管會曾經發布過呼籲民眾勿輕信代辦業者有關資金或債務協商等需求貸款勿輕信代辦業者\n我們在11月29號有發這樣子的新聞稿對不對有 謝謝我們事實上過去10年我們發了10幾次的這樣子的新聞稿啦但是我覺得這個代辦業者我們還是看到在電視上看到有一些代辦業者的廣告啊電視廣告都有啊那到底呢\n不是說代辦業者都是非法可能他原先是合法的例如說銀行所委託的銀行自己委託的辦理這個房貸車貸委外辦理行銷業務受委託的機構這個可能就是合法的代辦業者因為代辦業者在法律上在所有的我們規則裡面我沒有看到代辦業者的定義啊對不對\n我們下一次做宣導的時候把它定義清楚是什麼樣的情況之下的代辦業者民眾要小心那你們那天所發的新聞稿你們最後在新聞稿的最後最下面有提供一個說如果有民眾的需求可以這個利用中華民國銀行商業同業公會全合聯合網站貸款免費資訊專區點進去這個專區\n你們新聞稿這樣講結果我點進去這個專區裡面我看它裡面有關這個業者行銷的這個檔案再點進去我再點進去看裡面的資料是102年了是11年前的資料\n不過委員這個不應該我們回去立刻去調整這個部分我時間到了但是我要跟主委講說這些我們有一些事情我們像這種我們發布新聞提醒消費者小心但是我們卻沒有提供真正讓消費者能夠清楚如何收到保護的這些資訊這樣很不應該是委員這個的確不應該這樣子我們會立刻改進謝謝委員指導好謝謝謝謝主委請回座\n下一位请李贵明委员咨询\n","vtt":"WEBVTT\n\n00:00.009 --> 00:03.770\n主委早我們今天的這個主題今天所列的這個專題報告主題除了剛剛已經有一些委員討論的這個有關存網保存網銀的這些發展以外另外一個部分就是有關我們開放銀行政策的回顧跟展望\n\n00:30.827 --> 00:53.543\n我看我們開放銀行的政策我們大概包括你今天的書面報告我們是在開放銀行部分分為三個階段來辦理第一個階段第一個階段大概就是單純是公開資料公開資訊的揭露第二個階段則就是在這些個資的部分\n\n00:54.488 --> 01:12.184\n那要進入這個第三階段就是牽涉到交易面了對不對我這樣理解比較牽涉到個人交易面的更敏感的資訊就不只是資訊了還是交易面了這才是第三階段前兩個階段都是資訊都是公開的資訊或者是個人資訊\n\n01:15.613 --> 01:41.154\n大概在這個108年9月2019年9月大概第一個階段就已經開始做了公開資料的查詢那在109年12月就是第二個階段有消費者的資訊的查詢大概都可以那我們接下來以我的理解是要在今年就是今年年底要實施第三階段是不是要進入第三階段\n\n01:42.006 --> 02:02.784\n是這樣子報告中說是我們說好自律規範跟資安相關的機制把它報備之後呢要讓社會大眾像銀行業者了解我們預計什麼時候在這邊講好了恐怕要做應該到明年上半年如果有業者願意去做的話明年上半年那我們自己的準備工作包括這個這個\n\n02:06.190 --> 02:30.402\n我們工會所做的這個第三階段有關交易部分的這個這個自律規範是不是已經有我們有沒有已經擬定出來了有就是年底前我們會核備年底前會核備今年年底會核備他們送給我們的嗎應該有好送給我們的他跟第二階段的這個自律規範有沒有什麼樣的差別一模一樣還是\n\n02:31.741 --> 02:38.389\n應該比較複雜主要是交易面資安面方面對因為它牽涉到交易面但是我沒有看到它局長說明一下\n\n02:41.659 --> 03:02.757\n報告委員因為第三階段是交易要發動所以其實資安就非常重要所以現在在那個工會定的還有財經公司定的資安還有技術的標準裡面會針對說哪些可以開放作為交易會定出一些項目來然後應該注意的個資還有資安的一些標準好\n\n03:06.100 --> 03:31.519\n這個你們有沒有回答我的問題啦我是說他們已經送來了你們不知道看過了沒有他的內容他現在的新的針對第三階段的這個自律規範跟原本第二階段的自律規範他有沒有改變有沒有更加嚴謹這針對交易的部分報委員裡面其實有幾項重點啦就是說你跟我講有沒有改變就好了有有有改變因為我這看齁這個\n\n03:33.806 --> 04:01.357\n主委我們第一階段第一階段只是單純公開資訊查詢的時候有27家金融機構來參與有6家TSP業者參與到第二階段開始要揭露個資的時候就縮到剩下17家金融機構參與也就是10家他說我公開資訊可以但是你要到個資他就不參與這個開放銀行的部分了\n\n04:04.261 --> 04:06.888\n那這個TSP業者也從六家縮成兩家\n\n04:09.997 --> 04:31.998\n以這樣子的做法看我們在一開始第一階段實施光是公開資訊我們有38家金融業者27家參加有11家他不願意參加這公開資訊的這個開放銀行的部分那我們接下來現在就要進入第三階段在第三階段的部分我們預計會有多少家來參與的這我們有沒有了解\n\n04:32.984 --> 04:57.421\n我想加速應該不會像第一階段那麼多因為主要是因為交易面牽涉到的資訊特別的敏感所以大家是不是信任那個TSP業者TSP業者願不願意做都是一個因素對主委你講到重點了大家信不信任這個TSP業者這個你講的這個金融機構這麼專業都不知道信不信任了更何況消費者這是一個三方的關係這是金融業者這個\n\n05:00.103 --> 05:16.822\n金融業者跟這個TSP業者跟這個消費者三方的關係對不對是三方的關係如果說連金融業者他對這個TSP業者他都還有一些疑慮的話那消費者要怎麼相信這些他要怎麼如何信任這個平台呢\n\n05:18.035 --> 05:41.547\n所以我們陳文寧剛剛也垂詢的所以在我們對於工會跟財經的規範才會不一樣工會是自律規範的部分財經公司是針對因為他這個是完全是線上的他的資安我們對他資安的要求這個是一定是最重要尤其要進入交易層面這個資安的要求但是我們知道依照現在的法令\n\n05:42.347 --> 05:56.678\n依照現在的法令我們銀行金融業者本身因為是國家基礎建設所以我們對他的資安要求等級是最高的對不對是最高的但是我們對TSP業者我們的資安要求有到這個等級嗎\n\n05:58.971 --> 06:17.736\nTSP業者必須要透過銀行去跟他之間去制約他不是透過我們我們對於TSP業者的資安要求有到銀行這個等級嗎沒有啊沒有嘛對啊但他事實上他在做同樣同樣的這個他必須可以存款可以扣款可以交易可以做這個帳戶的變動\n\n06:20.814 --> 06:42.920\n不過就是像第二階段是吉寶跟遠傳那這部分吉寶當然是我們的周邊單位啦那相對比較大家比較我覺得我的意思是說在這個資安的要求資安技術層面的要求上面我們認為說你至少在要進入第三階段的時候對於這些TSP業者他的資安的要求\n\n06:43.740 --> 07:06.398\n應該要有所提升至少TSP業者他是不是有涉專業的資安人員這個我們都不知道目前也沒有規範沒有要求更何況如果萬一這些TSP業者他的網路服務是委外他在委外進行網路服務的話那這些網路服務的作業他的資安的要求成績就更低了\n\n07:07.401 --> 07:36.076\n委員非常感謝您今天提出來這些提醒因為我自己沒有看到還在局裡審查我回去之後會立刻找局裡面就您所垂詢的重點去檢視是不是符合這樣的一個要求好那在一樣這個部分再跟你談這個消費者如果萬一發生消費者爭議啦我剛剛講過它是三方關係嘛是消費者、TSP業者跟金融機關三方的關係它有三個合約有三個合約的關係但卻在一次交易行為裡面完成\n\n07:37.288 --> 08:04.347\n這個之後如果萬一發生消費爭議的時候它有什麼樣的申訴管道這個東西也非常重要我現在看到這個我們目前的現在到第二階段的銀行公會的自律規範它有規定說它第十條裡面有規定說有關消費爭議於一定金額內由會員銀行先行給付給消費者發生糾紛之後銀行先給付給消費者但是這個一定金額是多少是各銀行制定\n\n08:05.288 --> 08:13.294\n自己訂多少金額還是我們公會大家有一個規定的說在多少金額之下你這個金融機構必須先享受這個局長兩萬塊錢兩萬塊錢報告委員目前我知道兩萬塊是我們規定的\n\n08:19.031 --> 08:36.002\n是工會訂的工會規定兩萬塊因為我有看到啦我有看到這個台灣企業跟地域銀行在網頁上面他們有公開說兩萬塊錢他們會先支付那其他的銀行都沒有揭露這些訊息我不知道其他銀行在多少我們會要求大家揭露這是工會訂定的\n\n08:36.903 --> 08:53.575\n再來有關發生爭議的時候的這些處理機制主委現在我們的這些銀行我們目前銀行我如果是跟銀行之間發生消費糾紛我是依照這個金融消費者保護法金融消費者保護法受到保護我有一個評議的程序\n\n08:54.415 --> 09:19.462\n但是我如果透過這個TSP平台他所使用的這個法規我們按照他的自律公會的這個第三條他裡面提到如果有這些爭議他是受到消費者保護法的保護他是受到比較低階的消費者保護法的保護但是我如果是跟銀行我是受到金融消費者保護法的保護\n\n09:20.994 --> 09:33.748\n這部分我們是不是應該要請這個銀行自律公會他們的這個自律規範裡面把他提升到金融消費者保護的層級啊好我原聽崔君的部分我們也一併去檢討\n\n09:35.320 --> 09:39.022\n這部分我認為是應該啦最後一點時間我們兩個禮拜之前我們金管會曾經發布過呼籲民眾勿輕信代辦業者有關資金或債務協商等需求貸款勿輕信代辦業者\n\n09:56.755 --> 10:14.834\n我們在11月29號有發這樣子的新聞稿對不對有謝謝我們事實上過去10年我們發了10幾次的這樣子的新聞稿啦但是我覺得這個代辦業者我們還是看到在電視上看到有一些代辦業者的廣告啊電視廣告都有啊那到底呢\n\n10:15.711 --> 10:35.124\n不是說代辦業者都是非法可能他原先是合法的例如說銀行所委託的銀行自己委託的辦理這個房貸車貸委外辦理行銷業務受委託的機構這個可能就是合法的代辦業者因為代辦業者在法律上在所有的我們規則裡面我沒有看到代辦業者的定義啊對不對\n\n10:37.199 --> 11:00.048\n我們下一次做宣導的時候把它定義清楚是什麼樣的情況之下的代辦業者民眾要小心那你們那天所發的新聞稿你們最後在新聞稿的最後最下面有提供一個說如果有民眾的需求可以這個利用中華民國銀行商業同業公會全合聯合網站貸款免費資訊專區點進去這個專區\n\n11:03.716 --> 11:08.802\n你們新聞稿這樣講結果我點進去這個專區裡面我看它裡面有關這個業者行銷的這個檔案再點進去我再點進去看裡面的資料是102年了是11年前的資料\n\n11:20.814 --> 11:42.067\n不過委員這個不應該我們回去立刻去調整這個部分我時間到了但是我要跟主委講說這些我們有一些事情我們像這種我們發布新聞提醒消費者小心但是我們卻沒有提供真正讓消費者能夠清楚如何收到保護的這些資訊這樣很不應該是委員這個的確不應該這樣子我們會立刻改進謝謝委員指導好謝謝謝謝主委請回座\n\n11:50.312 --> 11:53.637\n下一位请李贵明委员咨询\n\n","segments":[{"start":0.009,"end":3.77,"text":"主委早我們今天的這個主題今天所列的這個專題報告主題除了剛剛已經有一些委員討論的這個有關存網保存網銀的這些發展以外另外一個部分就是有關我們開放銀行政策的回顧跟展望"},{"start":30.827,"end":53.543,"text":"我看我們開放銀行的政策我們大概包括你今天的書面報告我們是在開放銀行部分分為三個階段來辦理第一個階段第一個階段大概就是單純是公開資料公開資訊的揭露第二個階段則就是在這些個資的部分"},{"start":54.488,"end":72.184,"text":"那要進入這個第三階段就是牽涉到交易面了對不對我這樣理解比較牽涉到個人交易面的更敏感的資訊就不只是資訊了還是交易面了這才是第三階段前兩個階段都是資訊都是公開的資訊或者是個人資訊"},{"start":75.613,"end":101.154,"text":"大概在這個108年9月2019年9月大概第一個階段就已經開始做了公開資料的查詢那在109年12月就是第二個階段有消費者的資訊的查詢大概都可以那我們接下來以我的理解是要在今年就是今年年底要實施第三階段是不是要進入第三階段"},{"start":102.006,"end":122.784,"text":"是這樣子報告中說是我們說好自律規範跟資安相關的機制把它報備之後呢要讓社會大眾像銀行業者了解我們預計什麼時候在這邊講好了恐怕要做應該到明年上半年如果有業者願意去做的話明年上半年那我們自己的準備工作包括這個這個"},{"start":126.19,"end":150.402,"text":"我們工會所做的這個第三階段有關交易部分的這個這個自律規範是不是已經有我們有沒有已經擬定出來了有就是年底前我們會核備年底前會核備今年年底會核備他們送給我們的嗎應該有好送給我們的他跟第二階段的這個自律規範有沒有什麼樣的差別一模一樣還是"},{"start":151.741,"end":158.389,"text":"應該比較複雜 主要是交易面 資安面方面對 因為它牽涉到交易面 但是我沒有看到它局長說明一下"},{"start":161.659,"end":182.757,"text":"報告委員因為第三階段是交易要發動所以其實資安就非常重要所以現在在那個工會定的還有財經公司定的資安還有技術的標準裡面會針對說哪些可以開放作為交易會定出一些項目來然後應該注意的個資還有資安的一些標準好"},{"start":186.1,"end":211.519,"text":"這個你們有沒有回答我的問題啦我是說他們已經送來了你們不知道看過了沒有他的內容他現在的新的針對第三階段的這個自律規範跟原本第二階段的自律規範他有沒有改變有沒有更加嚴謹這針對交易的部分報委員裡面其實有幾項重點啦就是說你跟我講有沒有改變就好了有有有改變因為我這看齁這個"},{"start":213.806,"end":241.357,"text":"主委我們第一階段第一階段只是單純公開資訊查詢的時候有27家金融機構來參與有6家TSP業者參與到第二階段開始要揭露個資的時候就縮到剩下17家金融機構參與也就是10家他說我公開資訊可以但是你要到個資他就不參與這個開放銀行的部分了"},{"start":244.261,"end":246.888,"text":"那這個TSP業者也從六家縮成兩家"},{"start":249.997,"end":271.998,"text":"以這樣子的做法看我們在一開始第一階段實施光是公開資訊我們有38家金融業者27家參加有11家他不願意參加這公開資訊的這個開放銀行的部分那我們接下來現在就要進入第三階段在第三階段的部分我們預計會有多少家來參與的這我們有沒有了解"},{"start":272.984,"end":297.421,"text":"我想加速應該不會像第一階段那麼多因為主要是因為交易面牽涉到的資訊特別的敏感所以大家是不是信任那個TSP業者TSP業者願不願意做都是一個因素對 主委你講到重點了大家信不信任這個TSP業者這個你講的這個金融機構這麼專業都不知道信不信任了更何況消費者這是一個三方的關係這是金融業者這個"},{"start":300.103,"end":316.822,"text":"金融業者跟這個TSP業者跟這個消費者三方的關係對不對是三方的關係如果說連金融業者他對這個TSP業者他都還有一些疑慮的話那消費者要怎麼相信這些他要怎麼如何信任這個平台呢"},{"start":318.035,"end":341.547,"text":"所以我們陳文寧剛剛也垂詢的所以在我們對於工會跟財經的規範才會不一樣工會是自律規範的部分財經公司是針對因為他這個是完全是線上的他的資安我們對他資安的要求這個是一定是最重要尤其要進入交易層面這個資安的要求但是我們知道依照現在的法令"},{"start":342.347,"end":356.678,"text":"依照現在的法令我們銀行金融業者本身因為是國家基礎建設所以我們對他的資安要求等級是最高的對不對是最高的但是我們對TSP業者我們的資安要求有到這個等級嗎"},{"start":358.971,"end":377.736,"text":"TSP業者必須要透過銀行去跟他之間去制約他不是透過我們我們對於TSP業者的資安要求有到銀行這個等級嗎沒有啊沒有嘛 對啊但他事實上他在做同樣同樣的這個他必須可以存款可以扣款可以交易可以做這個帳戶的變動"},{"start":380.814,"end":402.92,"text":"不過就是像第二階段是吉寶跟遠傳那這部分吉寶當然是我們的周邊單位啦那相對比較大家比較我覺得我的意思是說在這個資安的要求資安技術層面的要求上面我們認為說你至少在要進入第三階段的時候對於這些TSP業者他的資安的要求"},{"start":403.74,"end":426.398,"text":"應該要有所提升至少TSP業者他是不是有涉專業的資安人員這個我們都不知道目前也沒有規範沒有要求更何況如果萬一這些TSP業者他的網路服務是委外他在委外進行網路服務的話那這些網路服務的作業他的資安的要求成績就更低了"},{"start":427.401,"end":456.076,"text":"委員非常感謝您今天提出來這些提醒因為我自己沒有看到還在局裡審查我回去之後會立刻找局裡面就您所垂詢的重點去檢視是不是符合這樣的一個要求好那在一樣這個部分再跟你談這個消費者如果萬一發生消費者爭議啦我剛剛講過它是三方關係嘛是消費者、TSP業者跟金融機關三方的關係它有三個合約有三個合約的關係但卻在一次交易行為裡面完成"},{"start":457.288,"end":484.347,"text":"這個之後如果萬一發生消費爭議的時候它有什麼樣的申訴管道這個東西也非常重要我現在看到這個我們目前的現在到第二階段的銀行公會的自律規範它有規定說它第十條裡面有規定說有關消費爭議於一定金額內由會員銀行先行給付給消費者發生糾紛之後銀行先給付給消費者但是這個一定金額是多少是各銀行制定"},{"start":485.288,"end":493.294,"text":"自己訂多少金額還是我們公會大家有一個規定的說在多少金額之下你這個金融機構必須先享受這個局長兩萬塊錢兩萬塊錢報告委員目前我知道兩萬塊是我們規定的"},{"start":499.031,"end":516.002,"text":"是 工會訂的工會規定兩萬塊因為我有看到啦 我有看到這個台灣企業跟地域銀行在網頁上面他們有公開說兩萬塊錢他們會先支付那其他的銀行都沒有揭露這些訊息我不知道其他銀行在多少我們會要求大家揭露這是工會訂定的"},{"start":516.903,"end":533.575,"text":"再來有關發生爭議的時候的這些處理機制主委現在我們的這些銀行我們目前銀行我如果是跟銀行之間發生消費糾紛我是依照這個金融消費者保護法金融消費者保護法受到保護我有一個評議的程序"},{"start":534.415,"end":559.462,"text":"但是我如果透過這個TSP平台他所使用的這個法規我們按照他的自律公會的這個第三條他裡面提到如果有這些爭議他是受到消費者保護法的保護他是受到比較低階的消費者保護法的保護但是我如果是跟銀行我是受到金融消費者保護法的保護"},{"start":560.994,"end":573.748,"text":"這部分我們是不是應該要請這個銀行自律公會他們的這個自律規範裡面把他提升到金融消費者保護的層級啊好 我原聽崔君的部分我們也一併去檢討"},{"start":575.32,"end":579.022,"text":"這部分我認為是應該啦最後一點時間我們兩個禮拜之前我們金管會曾經發布過呼籲民眾勿輕信代辦業者有關資金或債務協商等需求貸款勿輕信代辦業者"},{"start":596.755,"end":614.834,"text":"我們在11月29號有發這樣子的新聞稿對不對有 謝謝我們事實上過去10年我們發了10幾次的這樣子的新聞稿啦但是我覺得這個代辦業者我們還是看到在電視上看到有一些代辦業者的廣告啊電視廣告都有啊那到底呢"},{"start":615.711,"end":635.124,"text":"不是說代辦業者都是非法可能他原先是合法的例如說銀行所委託的銀行自己委託的辦理這個房貸車貸委外辦理行銷業務受委託的機構這個可能就是合法的代辦業者因為代辦業者在法律上在所有的我們規則裡面我沒有看到代辦業者的定義啊對不對"},{"start":637.199,"end":660.048,"text":"我們下一次做宣導的時候把它定義清楚是什麼樣的情況之下的代辦業者民眾要小心那你們那天所發的新聞稿你們最後在新聞稿的最後最下面有提供一個說如果有民眾的需求可以這個利用中華民國銀行商業同業公會全合聯合網站貸款免費資訊專區點進去這個專區"},{"start":663.716,"end":668.802,"text":"你們新聞稿這樣講結果我點進去這個專區裡面我看它裡面有關這個業者行銷的這個檔案再點進去我再點進去看裡面的資料是102年了是11年前的資料"},{"start":680.814,"end":702.067,"text":"不過委員這個不應該我們回去立刻去調整這個部分我時間到了但是我要跟主委講說這些我們有一些事情我們像這種我們發布新聞提醒消費者小心但是我們卻沒有提供真正讓消費者能夠清楚如何收到保護的這些資訊這樣很不應該是委員這個的確不應該這樣子我們會立刻改進謝謝委員指導好謝謝謝謝主委請回座"},{"start":710.312,"end":713.637,"text":"下一位请李贵明委员咨询"}]}}}}