{"id":148950,"url":"https://ivod.ly.gov.tw/Play/Clip/1M/148950","video_url":"https://ivod-lyvod.cdn.hinet.net/vod_1/_definst_/mp4:1MClips/a0ee4ec253a7202981a18d680cb3ca9692351fad24fff329c986728e607a0322f1752e0d5a860ce85ea18f28b6918d91.mp4/playlist.m3u8","委員名稱":"王定宇","委員發言時間":"10:03:49 - 10:13:51","影片長度":"00:10:02","會議時間":"2023-12-11T09:00:00+08:00","會議名稱":"立法院第10屆第8會期外交及國防、經濟委員會第1次聯席會議（事由：一、邀請國防部部長報告「兵役延長配套與整備現況及國防學士班與國軍現行各人才招募管道精進作為」，併請內政部、教育部、勞動部列席，並備質詢。\n二、審查本院國民黨黨團擬具「國防產業發展條例第十條條文修正草案」案。\n三、審查本院委員邱志偉等22人擬具「國防產業發展條例第十條及第十九條條文修正草案」案。）","meet":{"tmpMeeting":null,"title":"立法院第10屆第8會期外交及國防、經濟委員會第1次聯席會議","type":"聯席會議","term":10,"sessionPeriod":8,"sessionTimes":1,"committees":[35,19],"id":"聯席會議-10-8-35,19-1"},"date":"2023-12-11","duration":602,"end_time":"2023-12-11T10:13:51+08:00","start_time":"2023-12-11T10:03:49+08:00","features":["gazette"],"type":"Clip","gazette":{"lineno":361,"blocks":[["王委員定宇：（10時3分）謝謝主席，麻煩邱部長。"],["主席：邱部長請。"],["邱部長國正：王委員好。"],["王委員定宇：部長早。我們常在國防委員會討論一些決策的問題，因為不管是武器的研製、採購或者是軍事的部署，從決策到執行，部隊是一個口令一個動作，所以決策很重要，也因此我今天特別在我們這一屆任期的最後階段，希望跟部長討論一件事情，我覺得這個決策看起來不大，但影響其實很深遠。不管是我們自己國造的武器，比如天弓系列、雄風系列，或者是雷霆2000，或是我們對外採購的，不管是現在傳說的AGM-158，或者是F-16V或海馬斯，我們都是追求更精準、打得更遠、嚇阻力更大，也就是精準、更遠，花的經費其實相當多。回到我們的單兵，也就是一個步兵擁有的突擊步槍，相較這些大筆的金額，其實金額並不大，但是我們的步槍對單兵的作戰能力，特別是在國土保衛戰，我們看到不管是發生在以色列，過去發生在喬治亞，或是現在發生在烏克蘭，臺灣是一個城鎮遍布的環境，我們沒有像大國有一大片的曠野和沙漠，所以精準、打得遠，對於提高步兵存活率和戰鬥力其實是很重要的，我相信部長在這方面比我更專業。現在我們的單兵所使用的步槍，我也看到軍備局確實有開始研製下一代XT112步槍，但我必須提出意見，這項決策我真的希望部長思考看看。國軍現有的步槍是T91嘛！"],["邱部長國正：對。"],["王委員定宇：但是我們的後備部隊以及一些支援型的部隊還在用T65K2。我先請教部長，就你瞭解，我們T91的評價如何？"],["邱部長國正：針對T91，目前官兵的反映各方面都還滿不錯的。"],["王委員定宇：其實我們T91的評價是好的、是不錯的，我們的武器可以出口，T91的槍還是我們少數可以出口的裝備之一，所以針對T91，包含國際上的分析，認為臺灣的國造T91步槍是一把好槍，做得不錯，這個要肯定。T91步槍的口徑是5.56的，傳統都是5.56的嘛，而現在我們的後備部隊及支援型部隊還有部分是用T65K2，我們的T91還沒有全面換裝完成，我這樣詮釋對不對？目前應該是這樣子吧！現在T91的評價其實不錯，包括穩定度各方面都還不錯，我們現在進行研製的XT112下一個新世代的步槍，它的口徑是不是還是5.56？還是5.56嘛！"],["邱部長國正：我請軍備局來說明。"],["林局長文祥：我是軍備局局長，跟委員報告還是5.56。"],["王委員定宇：為什麼要維持5.56？"],["林局長文祥：它還要再加裝一些夜戰的……"],["王委員定宇：我們還要加裝一些光學瞄準……"],["林局長文祥：是，按照陸軍的……"],["王委員定宇：那個我等一下會提，我的意思是說我們下一代單兵用的步槍，口徑為什麼還是維持5.56？它並沒有變新，你懂我的意思嗎？口徑是一樣嘛！"],["林局長文祥：報告委員，因為我們在射擊時，5.56是造成人體傷害的口徑，目前美軍對於人體的傷害也是都採取5.56口徑的。"],["王委員定宇：所以我就要跟你提這一點嘛，5.56有它的優點，它穿透性好，以前俄製的大概是7.62的，它是撞擊力大，打了會停下來，我們的5.56打幾槍，中彈之後可能第一時間還不曉得、還會往前跑，加上現在各國的防彈鋼板越做越好，所以就5.56的穿透力和嚇阻力……，尤其我們的兵是精兵，對方可能是用人海，如果我們不能壓制住他，他還是往前衝的話……，其實這是一些思維的考慮。我現在要提的就是我們在有限的經費下，有兩件事情是我今天要具體建議的，美國下一代的步槍已經不是用5.56了，他們的下一代步槍是用6.8mm的，他們的下一代步槍當然有很多新的設計，他們的XM7是用6.8mm，老共現在正在用的步槍已經揚棄AK系列了，他們現在也是用6.8的……"],["林局長文祥：5.8……"],["王委員定宇：6.8，大家都開始採用6.8的，但是我們現在國造的下一代步槍還是維持5.56的，關於這一點，部長，因為你們是專家，是不是在我們相關的兵工產業討論看看？如果我們要研製下一代的新時代步槍，我們跟盟友之間又是合作關係，我們在步槍的口徑上有沒有必要思考大家下一代走同樣的，因為口徑的銜接是有影響的。第二個，會走到6.8有它的原因、道理在，特別是現代戰爭，在研究口徑上，就像我剛才講的，要打得準、打得遠，雖然口徑大後座力就大，但是它相較來講有一些優點。","另外，我們的資源有限，國防資源永遠不夠，我講真的，這是永遠不夠的。部長，我們在這邊共事那麼久了，我永遠都是希望給國軍更多的預算、更多的資源，讓我們的官兵弟兄用更好的裝備，防彈背心要用更好的，我們的槍要用更好的，是不是在現階段的這些經費上，把我們現在評價不錯、還沒有全面換裝完成的T91……。其實在未來的戰爭環境，光學瞄準打得準，握把打得準，然後可以看得更遠，我們現在就是訓練實戰化，可是我們訓練實戰化用的是那個圈孔的瞄準，並沒有光學瞄準，在平常訓練時是這樣打，等到戰場上給他光學瞄準，他還未必會。所以我的意思是說，我們現在單兵要特戰化，作戰環境訓練實戰化，而我們所處的環境掩體、房舍、精準度、射擊距離對單兵的存活率其實很有幫助，所以在這樣的情形下，就我們下一代研製的步槍XT-112，我具體建議國防部思考下一代我們國軍弟兄所需要步槍的口徑是不是應該往6.8走。我沒有定論，我尊重專家，我只是告訴你，各國是往這樣走，那我們自己還在維持5.56。至於說我們現在庫存一大堆5.56的子彈要怎麼樣處理，那個不是問題啦！因為我們如果未來走到那一天的時候，T-91就會變後備部隊的，好槍給後備部隊嘛！我們現役的主戰部隊開始先換裝下一代新式步槍，可以走6.8mm的，所以子彈不會浪費的啦！","所以我提出兩個建議，在研製方面思考新一代步槍的口徑跟需求，因為我們現在只是試做幾把而已，錢還沒有砸下去，研製都還在構思當中，否則走到未來決定量產了，我再來講這個，我覺得就是浪費公帑了，所以要思考第一步走對來。第二個，對於我們現有的部隊，特別是主戰部隊，是不是全面的把光學瞄準跟握把變標配，讓他作戰訓練實戰化，讓他平常就熟悉這些裝備，在面對不管是灘頭、城鎮各種作戰環境，精準度提高，存活率提高，射擊距離拉遠。我們不管是雄二、雄三、弓二、弓三，我們在用所有新式大裝備的時候，都在思考更準、更遠、存活率更高。我們最寶貴的國軍弟兄姊妹們在使用單兵作戰武器的時候，其實應該要套進同樣的思維。未來我們每一個單兵都是我們國家重要的資產，存活率要提高，訓練要提升，然後讓他掌握的裝備跟真實要用的裝備能夠一致，這樣對我們國軍建立一個具備嚇阻力的戰鬥力量才有幫助。","我剛才提出這些建議，因為我怕這是這個會期我們兩個人最後一次見面，希望不是啦！也歡迎來我那邊坐。我是不是跟主席借幾分鐘，請問部長怎麼看這個事情？"],["邱部長國正：我跟委員報告，委員的看法很對，我們任何一個建案，第一個考量就是為什麼要建這個案，一定是因為敵情，敵情有了變化，我們也要與時俱進，所以我們說有這麼做的需要，第一個是考量任務，看任務能不能執行；第二個是考量敵人有什麼變化，我們也要跟著變化，這絕對是對的。剛剛委員提的建議也有很具體的，我想我們國軍建案也好，建軍這個工作要與時俱進，敵情有什麼變化，別的國家有如何的發展，這都是很好的參考，國軍不會停止我們的腳步，我們不管以後在建案各方面，從飛彈到槍砲到一般個人用的武器，我想都要把握這個原則來做。"],["王委員定宇：我相信邱部長啦！是不是把我剛才提的這件事情納入一個正式的討論評估？"],["邱部長國正：是，我瞭解。"],["王委員定宇：因為還來得及，我們還沒開始，所以思考清楚，把它一次做對來，好不好？"],["邱部長國正：好。"],["王委員定宇：謝謝部長。"],["邱部長國正：這是應該的，謝謝委員。"],["主席：好，謝謝王委員。","接下來請楊瓊瓔委員詢答。"]],"agenda":{"page_end":244,"meet_id":"聯席會議-10-8-35,19-1","speakers":["廖婉汝","李德維","林昶佐","陳亭妃","陳以信","賴瑞隆","王定宇","楊瓊瓔","吳斯懷","江啟臣","林靜儀","何志偉","劉世芳","羅致政","蔡適應","邱臣遠","陳椒華","陳明文","蔡易餘","馬文君","趙天麟","陳超明"],"page_start":157,"meetingDate":["2023-12-11"],"gazette_id":"1130201","agenda_lcidc_ids":["1130201_00003"],"meet_name":"立法院第10屆第8會期外交及國防、經濟委員會第1次聯席會議紀錄","content":"一、邀請國防部部長報告「兵役延長配套與整備現況及國防學士班與國軍現行各人才招募管道精\n進作為」，並備質詢；二、審查本院國民黨黨團擬具「國防產業發展條例第十條條文修正草案」\n案；三、審查本院委員邱志偉等22人擬具「國防產業發展條例第十條及第十九條條文修正草案」\n案","agenda_id":"1130201_00002"}},"transcript":{"id":"148950","pyannote":{"name":"ronny","tool":"pyannote","data":{"url":"https://ivod.ly.gov.tw/Play/Clip/1M/148950","tool":"pyannote","id":"148950-pyannote"},"job_id":"7JC0yII7LrQ6D58n","queued_at":"2025-10-22 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\"score\": 0.832}, {\"word\": \"不\", \"start\": 599.436, \"end\": 599.576, \"score\": 0.856}, {\"word\": \"好\", \"start\": 599.576, \"end\": 599.696, \"score\": 0.903}, {\"word\": \",\"}, {\"word\": \"謝\"}, {\"word\": \"謝\"}, {\"word\": \"部\", \"start\": 599.696, \"end\": 599.936, \"score\": 0.916}, {\"word\": \"長\"}, {\"word\": \"。\"}, {\"word\": \"是\", \"start\": 599.936, \"end\": 600.016, \"score\": 0.75}, {\"word\": \"應\"}, {\"word\": \"該\"}, {\"word\": \"的\", \"start\": 600.016, \"end\": 600.036, \"score\": 0.0}, {\"word\": \",\"}, {\"word\": \"謝\"}, {\"word\": \"謝\"}, {\"word\": \"委\", \"start\": 600.036, \"end\": 600.056, \"score\": 0.0}, {\"word\": \"員\"}, {\"word\": \"。\"}], \"language\": \"zh\"}","srt":"1\n00:00:00,793 --> 00:00:01,697\n謝謝主席麻煩邱部長邱部長請\n\n2\n00:00:10,362 --> 00:00:38,219\n黃委員好部長早我們常在國防委員會討論一些決策的問題因為不管是武器的研製採購或者是軍事的部署決策到執行部隊是一個口令一個動作所以決策很重要所以我今天特別在我們這一屆任期的最後階段希望跟部長討論一件事情我覺得這個決策看起來不大其實影響會深遠\n\n3\n00:00:40,373 --> 00:01:07,210\n我們不管是自己國造的武器比方說天弓系列雄風系列或者是雷霆2000或者我們去對外採購的不管現在傳說的AGM-158或者是F16V或海馬士我們其實都追求的是更精準打得更遠嚇阻力會更大精準更遠那花的經費其實相當多那回到我們單兵\n\n4\n00:01:09,909 --> 00:01:27,439\n一個步兵擁有的突擊步槍其實相較這些大筆的金額其實金額並不大但是我們的步槍對單兵的作戰能力特別在國土保衛戰我們現在看到不管發生在以色列發生過去在喬治亞或者現在在烏克蘭\n\n5\n00:01:29,040 --> 00:01:45,259\n我們台灣是一個城鎮遍布的環境我們沒有像那個大國有一大片的礦野跟沙漠所以精準打得遠對步兵的提高存活率跟戰鬥力其實很重要的我相信部長在這方面比我更專業\n\n6\n00:01:46,801 --> 00:02:10,457\n那我們現在呢單兵所使用的步槍我也看到我們軍備局確實有開始研製下一代XT-112這個步槍但我必須提出說這個決策我今天真的是希望部長思考看看我們現在國軍現有的步槍是T-91嘛但是我們後備部隊還有一些支援型的部隊還在用K2T-65K2\n\n7\n00:02:13,171 --> 00:02:16,472\n我先請教部長,就你了解我們T-91的評價如何?其實我們T-91的評價是好的,是不錯的我們如果武器可以出口,T-91的槍功還是我們少數可以出口的裝備之一所以T-91我看了,包含國際上的在分析台灣的國造T-91步槍,是一把好槍\n\n8\n00:02:42,679 --> 00:02:57,275\n做得不錯這個要肯定那T-91步槍的口徑是5.56的嘛我們傳統都5.56的嘛那我們現在後備部隊跟支援型的部隊呢還有部分是用T-65K2我們T-91還沒有全面換裝完成我這樣詮釋對不對應該目前是這樣子吧\n\n9\n00:03:02,281 --> 00:03:13,922\n現在T-91的評價其實不錯穩定度各方面都還不錯我們現在進行研製的XT-112下一個新世代的步槍它的口徑是不是還是5.56\n\n10\n00:03:16,509 --> 00:03:32,458\n還是5.56嘛我是軍備局局長跟委員報告還是5.56那為什麼要維持5.56他還要再加裝一些夜戰的那個我們還要加裝一些光學瞄準啊那個我待會會提我的意思是說我們下一代單兵用的步槍口徑為什麼還是維持5.56\n\n11\n00:03:36,733 --> 00:03:56,259\n他並沒有變心你懂我意思嗎口徑是一樣嘛報告委員因為我們在涉及5.56是造成人體傷害的一個口徑目前美軍他對於人體的傷害也是都採取5.56所以我就要跟你提這一點5.56有他的優點是他穿透性好是那以前呢\n\n12\n00:03:57,639 --> 00:04:21,738\n遏制的大概是7.62的他是撞擊力大打了他會停下來我們5.56打幾槍中彈之後可能第一時間還不曉得還往前跑加上現在各國的防彈鋼板越做越好所以5.56的穿透力跟嚇阻力尤其我們的兵士精兵對方可能是用人海如果你不能壓制住他他還是往前衝的話\n\n13\n00:04:23,311 --> 00:04:38,500\n其實這是一些思維的考慮所以我現在要提的就是說我們在有限的經費下有兩件事情我今天要具體建議的美國下一代的步槍他不是用5.56了他下一代步槍是用6.8厘米的\n\n14\n00:04:39,960 --> 00:04:54,630\n他的下一代步槍當然有很多新的設計他XM7是這個用6.8厘米老共的下一代不是下一代現在正在用的步槍他已經洋氣AK系列了他現在也是用6.8的嘛6.8他用8厘米的啦大家都開始採用6.8的喔就我們現在國造的下一代步槍我們還是維持\n\n15\n00:05:08,002 --> 00:05:27,941\n5.56的這一點我是請部長你們是專家是不是在我們相關的兵工的產業討論看看如果我們要研製下一代的新時代的步槍那我們跟盟友之間又是合作關係我們在步槍的口徑上有沒有必要思考大家下一代走同樣\n\n16\n00:05:29,093 --> 00:05:51,590\n因為口徑的銜接是有影響的第二個會走到6.8有它的原因道理在特別是現代戰爭它在研究口徑上我剛才講的打得準打得遠雖然口徑大後座力就大但是它相較有一些優點另外把我們有限的資源國防資源永遠不夠啦我講真的永遠不夠部長我們在這邊\n\n17\n00:05:53,476 --> 00:06:20,388\n共事那麼久了我永遠都是希望給國軍更多的預算更多的資源讓我們的官兵弟兄用更好的裝備嘛防彈背心要用更好的我們的槍要用更好的是不是在現階段這些經費上把我們現在平價不錯還沒有全面換裝完成的T-91其實未來的戰爭環境光學瞄準打得準握把打得準然後呢可以看得更遠\n\n18\n00:06:21,621 --> 00:06:39,502\n我們現在平常在實彈我們現在說訓練實戰化嘛可是我們訓練實戰化用的是那個孔圈孔的那個瞄準它沒有關懸瞄準你平常訓練是這樣打你到戰場上給它關懸瞄準齁還未必會所以我的意思說倒不如把我們現在我們現在\n\n19\n00:06:41,023 --> 00:06:57,372\n單兵要特戰化作戰環境訓練實戰化而我們所處的環境掩體防射精準度射擊距離對單兵的存活率其實很有幫助所以再這樣請教我們下一代研製的步槍\n\n20\n00:06:58,913 --> 00:07:23,155\nXT-112我具體建議國防部思考下一代我們國軍弟兄所需要的步槍它的口徑是不是應該往6.8走我沒有定論我尊重專家我只告訴你說各國往這樣走那我們自己還要維持5.56至於說那我們現在庫存一大堆5.56子彈怎麼樣那個不是問題啦因為我們可以把我們如果未來走到那一天的時候T-91就會變後備部隊的嘛\n\n21\n00:07:24,716 --> 00:07:33,095\n好槍給後備部隊嘛我們現役的主戰部隊開始先換裝下一代新式步槍可以走6.8厘米的嘛\n\n22\n00:07:34,096 --> 00:07:57,877\n子彈不會浪費的啦所以我的意思是說兩個建議思考新一代步槍的口徑跟需求再研製因為我們現在試做幾把而已錢還沒有砸下去研製都在構思當中否則走到未來決定量場的我再來講這個我覺得就浪費工廠了思考第一步走對來第二個對於我們現有的部隊特別是主戰部隊\n\n23\n00:07:59,409 --> 00:08:19,712\n是不是全面的把光學瞄準跟握把變標配讓他作戰訓練實戰化他平常就熟悉這些裝備那面對的是不管是灘頭城鎮各種作戰環境精準度提高存活率提高射擊距離拉遠我們在雄風二\n\n24\n00:08:21,013 --> 00:08:41,554\n不管是雄二雄三公二公三我們在所有新式大裝備的時候都在思考更準更遠存活率更高可是我們最寶貴的國軍弟兄姊妹們他在用的單兵作戰武器的時候其實應該要套進同樣的思維然後未來我們每一個單兵都是我們國家重要資產存活率要提高\n\n25\n00:08:42,655 --> 00:09:10,856\n訓練要提升然後讓他掌握的裝備跟真實用的裝備能夠一致那這樣對我們國軍建立一個具備嚇阻力的戰鬥量才有幫助我該建議這些因為我怕這是這一次會期我們兩個最後一次見面希望不是也歡迎你在旁邊坐你就這邊我是不是跟主席借幾分鐘部長怎麼看這個事情對我跟委員報告委員看法很對我們認為一個建案第一個考量為什麼要建這個案一定是敵情\n\n26\n00:09:11,897 --> 00:09:32,754\n必须有变化,我们也要与时俱进,所以我们问他要做的需要,第二考量任务,任务能不能执行,执行第二考量敌人怎么变化,我们也要跟着变化,这绝对对的。那刚刚委员听的建议也很具体的,我想我们国军建案也好,建军的工作是要与时俱进。\n\n27\n00:09:33,875 --> 00:10:00,056\n敵情有什麼變化,別的國家有如何的一個發展,這都是一個很好的參考,國軍不會停止我們的腳步,這第一我們不管以後建案各方面,從飛彈到槍炮到一般的個人用的武器,我想多把握這一點。我相信邱部長,這把我剛才提的這件事情,納入一個正式的討論評估,因為還來得及,我們還沒開始,所以思考清楚,把它一次做對來,好不好,謝謝部長。是應該的,謝謝委員。\n\n","tsv":"start\tend\ttext\n793\t1697\t謝謝主席 麻煩邱部長邱部長請\n10362\t38219\t黃委員好部長早我們常在國防委員會討論一些決策的問題因為不管是武器的研製採購或者是軍事的部署決策到執行部隊是一個口令一個動作所以決策很重要所以我今天特別在我們這一屆任期的最後階段希望跟部長討論一件事情我覺得這個決策看起來不大其實影響會深遠\n40373\t67210\t我們不管是自己國造的武器比方說天弓系列雄風系列或者是雷霆2000或者我們去對外採購的不管現在傳說的AGM-158或者是F16V或海馬士我們其實都追求的是更精準打得更遠嚇阻力會更大精準更遠那花的經費其實相當多那回到我們單兵\n69909\t87439\t一個步兵擁有的突擊步槍其實相較這些大筆的金額其實金額並不大但是我們的步槍對單兵的作戰能力特別在國土保衛戰我們現在看到不管發生在以色列發生過去在喬治亞或者現在在烏克蘭\n89040\t105259\t我們台灣是一個城鎮遍布的環境我們沒有像那個大國有一大片的礦野跟沙漠所以精準打得遠對步兵的提高存活率跟戰鬥力其實很重要的我相信部長在這方面比我更專業\n106801\t130457\t那我們現在呢單兵所使用的步槍我也看到我們軍備局確實有開始研製下一代XT-112這個步槍但我必須提出說這個決策我今天真的是希望部長思考看看我們現在國軍現有的步槍是T-91嘛但是我們後備部隊還有一些支援型的部隊還在用K2 T-65 K2\n133171\t136472\t我先請教部長,就你了解我們T-91的評價如何?其實我們T-91的評價是好的,是不錯的我們如果武器可以出口,T-91的槍功還是我們少數可以出口的裝備之一所以T-91我看了,包含國際上的在分析台灣的國造T-91步槍,是一把好槍\n162679\t177275\t做得不錯 這個要肯定那T-91步槍的口徑是5.56的嘛我們傳統都5.56的嘛那我們現在後備部隊跟支援型的部隊呢還有部分是用T-65 K2我們T-91還沒有全面換裝完成我這樣詮釋對不對應該目前是這樣子吧\n182281\t193922\t現在T-91的評價其實不錯穩定度各方面都還不錯我們現在進行研製的XT-112下一個新世代的步槍它的口徑是不是還是5.56\n196509\t212458\t還是5.56嘛我是軍備局局長跟委員報告還是5.56那為什麼要維持5.56他還要再加裝一些夜戰的那個我們還要加裝一些光學瞄準啊那個我待會會提我的意思是說我們下一代單兵用的步槍口徑為什麼還是維持5.56\n216733\t236259\t他並沒有變心你懂我意思嗎口徑是一樣嘛報告委員因為我們在涉及5.56是造成人體傷害的一個口徑目前美軍他對於人體的傷害也是都採取5.56所以我就要跟你提這一點5.56有他的優點是他穿透性好是那以前呢\n237639\t261738\t遏制的大概是7.62的他是撞擊力大打了他會停下來我們5.56打幾槍中彈之後可能第一時間還不曉得還往前跑加上現在各國的防彈鋼板越做越好所以5.56的穿透力跟嚇阻力尤其我們的兵士精兵對方可能是用人海如果你不能壓制住他他還是往前衝的話\n263311\t278500\t其實這是一些思維的考慮所以我現在要提的就是說我們在有限的經費下有兩件事情我今天要具體建議的美國下一代的步槍他不是用5.56了他下一代步槍是用6.8厘米的\n279960\t294630\t他的下一代步槍當然有很多新的設計他XM7是這個用6.8厘米老共的下一代不是下一代現在正在用的步槍他已經洋氣AK系列了他現在也是用6.8的嘛6.8他用8厘米的啦大家都開始採用6.8的喔就我們現在國造的下一代步槍我們還是維持\n308002\t327941\t5.56的這一點我是請部長你們是專家是不是在我們相關的兵工的產業討論看看如果我們要研製下一代的新時代的步槍那我們跟盟友之間又是合作關係我們在步槍的口徑上有沒有必要思考大家下一代走同樣\n329093\t351590\t因為口徑的銜接是有影響的第二個會走到6.8有它的原因道理在特別是現代戰爭它在研究口徑上我剛才講的打得準打得遠雖然口徑大後座力就大但是它相較有一些優點另外把我們有限的資源國防資源永遠不夠啦我講真的永遠不夠部長我們在這邊\n353476\t380388\t共事那麼久了我永遠都是希望給國軍更多的預算更多的資源讓我們的官兵弟兄用更好的裝備嘛防彈背心要用更好的我們的槍要用更好的是不是在現階段這些經費上把我們現在平價不錯還沒有全面換裝完成的T-91其實未來的戰爭環境光學瞄準打得準握把打得準然後呢可以看得更遠\n381621\t399502\t我們現在平常在實彈我們現在說訓練實戰化嘛可是我們訓練實戰化用的是那個孔 圈孔的那個瞄準它沒有關懸瞄準你平常訓練是這樣打你到戰場上給它關懸瞄準齁還未必會所以我的意思說倒不如把我們現在我們現在\n401023\t417372\t單兵要特戰化作戰環境訓練實戰化而我們所處的環境掩體防射精準度射擊距離對單兵的存活率其實很有幫助所以再這樣請教我們下一代研製的步槍\n418913\t443155\tXT-112我具體建議國防部思考下一代我們國軍弟兄所需要的步槍它的口徑是不是應該往6.8走我沒有定論我尊重專家我只告訴你說各國往這樣走那我們自己還要維持5.56至於說那我們現在庫存一大堆5.56子彈怎麼樣那個不是問題啦因為我們可以把我們如果未來走到那一天的時候T-91就會變後備部隊的嘛\n444716\t453095\t好槍給後備部隊嘛我們現役的主戰部隊開始先換裝下一代新式步槍可以走6.8厘米的嘛\n454096\t477877\t子彈不會浪費的啦所以我的意思是說兩個建議思考新一代步槍的口徑跟需求再研製因為我們現在試做幾把而已錢還沒有砸下去研製都在構思當中否則走到未來決定量場的我再來講這個我覺得就浪費工廠了思考第一步走對來第二個對於我們現有的部隊特別是主戰部隊\n479409\t499712\t是不是全面的把光學瞄準跟握把變標配讓他作戰訓練實戰化他平常就熟悉這些裝備那面對的是不管是灘頭城鎮各種作戰環境精準度提高存活率提高射擊距離拉遠我們在雄風二\n501013\t521554\t不管是雄二雄三公二公三我們在所有新式大裝備的時候都在思考更準更遠存活率更高可是我們最寶貴的國軍弟兄姊妹們他在用的單兵作戰武器的時候其實應該要套進同樣的思維然後未來我們每一個單兵都是我們國家重要資產存活率要提高\n522655\t550856\t訓練要提升然後讓他掌握的裝備跟真實用的裝備能夠一致那這樣對我們國軍建立一個具備嚇阻力的戰鬥量才有幫助我該建議這些因為我怕這是這一次會期我們兩個最後一次見面希望不是也歡迎你在旁邊坐你就這邊我是不是跟主席借幾分鐘部長怎麼看這個事情對我跟委員報告委員看法很對我們認為一個建案第一個考量為什麼要建這個案一定是敵情\n551897\t572754\t必须有变化,我们也要与时俱进,所以我们问他要做的需要,第二考量任务,任务能不能执行,执行第二考量敌人怎么变化,我们也要跟着变化,这绝对对的。那刚刚委员听的建议也很具体的,我想我们国军建案也好,建军的工作是要与时俱进。\n573875\t600056\t敵情有什麼變化,別的國家有如何的一個發展,這都是一個很好的參考,國軍不會停止我們的腳步,這第一我們不管以後建案各方面,從飛彈到槍炮到一般的個人用的武器,我想多把握這一點。我相信邱部長,這把我剛才提的這件事情,納入一個正式的討論評估,因為還來得及,我們還沒開始,所以思考清楚,把它一次做對來,好不好,謝謝部長。是應該的,謝謝委員。\n","txt":"謝謝主席 麻煩邱部長邱部長請\n黃委員好部長早我們常在國防委員會討論一些決策的問題因為不管是武器的研製採購或者是軍事的部署決策到執行部隊是一個口令一個動作所以決策很重要所以我今天特別在我們這一屆任期的最後階段希望跟部長討論一件事情我覺得這個決策看起來不大其實影響會深遠\n我們不管是自己國造的武器比方說天弓系列雄風系列或者是雷霆2000或者我們去對外採購的不管現在傳說的AGM-158或者是F16V或海馬士我們其實都追求的是更精準打得更遠嚇阻力會更大精準更遠那花的經費其實相當多那回到我們單兵\n一個步兵擁有的突擊步槍其實相較這些大筆的金額其實金額並不大但是我們的步槍對單兵的作戰能力特別在國土保衛戰我們現在看到不管發生在以色列發生過去在喬治亞或者現在在烏克蘭\n我們台灣是一個城鎮遍布的環境我們沒有像那個大國有一大片的礦野跟沙漠所以精準打得遠對步兵的提高存活率跟戰鬥力其實很重要的我相信部長在這方面比我更專業\n那我們現在呢單兵所使用的步槍我也看到我們軍備局確實有開始研製下一代XT-112這個步槍但我必須提出說這個決策我今天真的是希望部長思考看看我們現在國軍現有的步槍是T-91嘛但是我們後備部隊還有一些支援型的部隊還在用K2 T-65 K2\n我先請教部長,就你了解我們T-91的評價如何?其實我們T-91的評價是好的,是不錯的我們如果武器可以出口,T-91的槍功還是我們少數可以出口的裝備之一所以T-91我看了,包含國際上的在分析台灣的國造T-91步槍,是一把好槍\n做得不錯 這個要肯定那T-91步槍的口徑是5.56的嘛我們傳統都5.56的嘛那我們現在後備部隊跟支援型的部隊呢還有部分是用T-65 K2我們T-91還沒有全面換裝完成我這樣詮釋對不對應該目前是這樣子吧\n現在T-91的評價其實不錯穩定度各方面都還不錯我們現在進行研製的XT-112下一個新世代的步槍它的口徑是不是還是5.56\n還是5.56嘛我是軍備局局長跟委員報告還是5.56那為什麼要維持5.56他還要再加裝一些夜戰的那個我們還要加裝一些光學瞄準啊那個我待會會提我的意思是說我們下一代單兵用的步槍口徑為什麼還是維持5.56\n他並沒有變心你懂我意思嗎口徑是一樣嘛報告委員因為我們在涉及5.56是造成人體傷害的一個口徑目前美軍他對於人體的傷害也是都採取5.56所以我就要跟你提這一點5.56有他的優點是他穿透性好是那以前呢\n遏制的大概是7.62的他是撞擊力大打了他會停下來我們5.56打幾槍中彈之後可能第一時間還不曉得還往前跑加上現在各國的防彈鋼板越做越好所以5.56的穿透力跟嚇阻力尤其我們的兵士精兵對方可能是用人海如果你不能壓制住他他還是往前衝的話\n其實這是一些思維的考慮所以我現在要提的就是說我們在有限的經費下有兩件事情我今天要具體建議的美國下一代的步槍他不是用5.56了他下一代步槍是用6.8厘米的\n他的下一代步槍當然有很多新的設計他XM7是這個用6.8厘米老共的下一代不是下一代現在正在用的步槍他已經洋氣AK系列了他現在也是用6.8的嘛6.8他用8厘米的啦大家都開始採用6.8的喔就我們現在國造的下一代步槍我們還是維持\n5.56的這一點我是請部長你們是專家是不是在我們相關的兵工的產業討論看看如果我們要研製下一代的新時代的步槍那我們跟盟友之間又是合作關係我們在步槍的口徑上有沒有必要思考大家下一代走同樣\n因為口徑的銜接是有影響的第二個會走到6.8有它的原因道理在特別是現代戰爭它在研究口徑上我剛才講的打得準打得遠雖然口徑大後座力就大但是它相較有一些優點另外把我們有限的資源國防資源永遠不夠啦我講真的永遠不夠部長我們在這邊\n共事那麼久了我永遠都是希望給國軍更多的預算更多的資源讓我們的官兵弟兄用更好的裝備嘛防彈背心要用更好的我們的槍要用更好的是不是在現階段這些經費上把我們現在平價不錯還沒有全面換裝完成的T-91其實未來的戰爭環境光學瞄準打得準握把打得準然後呢可以看得更遠\n我們現在平常在實彈我們現在說訓練實戰化嘛可是我們訓練實戰化用的是那個孔 圈孔的那個瞄準它沒有關懸瞄準你平常訓練是這樣打你到戰場上給它關懸瞄準齁還未必會所以我的意思說倒不如把我們現在我們現在\n單兵要特戰化作戰環境訓練實戰化而我們所處的環境掩體防射精準度射擊距離對單兵的存活率其實很有幫助所以再這樣請教我們下一代研製的步槍\nXT-112我具體建議國防部思考下一代我們國軍弟兄所需要的步槍它的口徑是不是應該往6.8走我沒有定論我尊重專家我只告訴你說各國往這樣走那我們自己還要維持5.56至於說那我們現在庫存一大堆5.56子彈怎麼樣那個不是問題啦因為我們可以把我們如果未來走到那一天的時候T-91就會變後備部隊的嘛\n好槍給後備部隊嘛我們現役的主戰部隊開始先換裝下一代新式步槍可以走6.8厘米的嘛\n子彈不會浪費的啦所以我的意思是說兩個建議思考新一代步槍的口徑跟需求再研製因為我們現在試做幾把而已錢還沒有砸下去研製都在構思當中否則走到未來決定量場的我再來講這個我覺得就浪費工廠了思考第一步走對來第二個對於我們現有的部隊特別是主戰部隊\n是不是全面的把光學瞄準跟握把變標配讓他作戰訓練實戰化他平常就熟悉這些裝備那面對的是不管是灘頭城鎮各種作戰環境精準度提高存活率提高射擊距離拉遠我們在雄風二\n不管是雄二雄三公二公三我們在所有新式大裝備的時候都在思考更準更遠存活率更高可是我們最寶貴的國軍弟兄姊妹們他在用的單兵作戰武器的時候其實應該要套進同樣的思維然後未來我們每一個單兵都是我們國家重要資產存活率要提高\n訓練要提升然後讓他掌握的裝備跟真實用的裝備能夠一致那這樣對我們國軍建立一個具備嚇阻力的戰鬥量才有幫助我該建議這些因為我怕這是這一次會期我們兩個最後一次見面希望不是也歡迎你在旁邊坐你就這邊我是不是跟主席借幾分鐘部長怎麼看這個事情對我跟委員報告委員看法很對我們認為一個建案第一個考量為什麼要建這個案一定是敵情\n必须有变化,我们也要与时俱进,所以我们问他要做的需要,第二考量任务,任务能不能执行,执行第二考量敌人怎么变化,我们也要跟着变化,这绝对对的。那刚刚委员听的建议也很具体的,我想我们国军建案也好,建军的工作是要与时俱进。\n敵情有什麼變化,別的國家有如何的一個發展,這都是一個很好的參考,國軍不會停止我們的腳步,這第一我們不管以後建案各方面,從飛彈到槍炮到一般的個人用的武器,我想多把握這一點。我相信邱部長,這把我剛才提的這件事情,納入一個正式的討論評估,因為還來得及,我們還沒開始,所以思考清楚,把它一次做對來,好不好,謝謝部長。是應該的,謝謝委員。\n","vtt":"WEBVTT\n\n00:00.793 --> 00:01.697\n謝謝主席麻煩邱部長邱部長請\n\n00:10.362 --> 00:38.219\n黃委員好部長早我們常在國防委員會討論一些決策的問題因為不管是武器的研製採購或者是軍事的部署決策到執行部隊是一個口令一個動作所以決策很重要所以我今天特別在我們這一屆任期的最後階段希望跟部長討論一件事情我覺得這個決策看起來不大其實影響會深遠\n\n00:40.373 --> 01:07.210\n我們不管是自己國造的武器比方說天弓系列雄風系列或者是雷霆2000或者我們去對外採購的不管現在傳說的AGM-158或者是F16V或海馬士我們其實都追求的是更精準打得更遠嚇阻力會更大精準更遠那花的經費其實相當多那回到我們單兵\n\n01:09.909 --> 01:27.439\n一個步兵擁有的突擊步槍其實相較這些大筆的金額其實金額並不大但是我們的步槍對單兵的作戰能力特別在國土保衛戰我們現在看到不管發生在以色列發生過去在喬治亞或者現在在烏克蘭\n\n01:29.040 --> 01:45.259\n我們台灣是一個城鎮遍布的環境我們沒有像那個大國有一大片的礦野跟沙漠所以精準打得遠對步兵的提高存活率跟戰鬥力其實很重要的我相信部長在這方面比我更專業\n\n01:46.801 --> 02:10.457\n那我們現在呢單兵所使用的步槍我也看到我們軍備局確實有開始研製下一代XT-112這個步槍但我必須提出說這個決策我今天真的是希望部長思考看看我們現在國軍現有的步槍是T-91嘛但是我們後備部隊還有一些支援型的部隊還在用K2T-65K2\n\n02:13.171 --> 02:16.472\n我先請教部長,就你了解我們T-91的評價如何?其實我們T-91的評價是好的,是不錯的我們如果武器可以出口,T-91的槍功還是我們少數可以出口的裝備之一所以T-91我看了,包含國際上的在分析台灣的國造T-91步槍,是一把好槍\n\n02:42.679 --> 02:57.275\n做得不錯這個要肯定那T-91步槍的口徑是5.56的嘛我們傳統都5.56的嘛那我們現在後備部隊跟支援型的部隊呢還有部分是用T-65K2我們T-91還沒有全面換裝完成我這樣詮釋對不對應該目前是這樣子吧\n\n03:02.281 --> 03:13.922\n現在T-91的評價其實不錯穩定度各方面都還不錯我們現在進行研製的XT-112下一個新世代的步槍它的口徑是不是還是5.56\n\n03:16.509 --> 03:32.458\n還是5.56嘛我是軍備局局長跟委員報告還是5.56那為什麼要維持5.56他還要再加裝一些夜戰的那個我們還要加裝一些光學瞄準啊那個我待會會提我的意思是說我們下一代單兵用的步槍口徑為什麼還是維持5.56\n\n03:36.733 --> 03:56.259\n他並沒有變心你懂我意思嗎口徑是一樣嘛報告委員因為我們在涉及5.56是造成人體傷害的一個口徑目前美軍他對於人體的傷害也是都採取5.56所以我就要跟你提這一點5.56有他的優點是他穿透性好是那以前呢\n\n03:57.639 --> 04:21.738\n遏制的大概是7.62的他是撞擊力大打了他會停下來我們5.56打幾槍中彈之後可能第一時間還不曉得還往前跑加上現在各國的防彈鋼板越做越好所以5.56的穿透力跟嚇阻力尤其我們的兵士精兵對方可能是用人海如果你不能壓制住他他還是往前衝的話\n\n04:23.311 --> 04:38.500\n其實這是一些思維的考慮所以我現在要提的就是說我們在有限的經費下有兩件事情我今天要具體建議的美國下一代的步槍他不是用5.56了他下一代步槍是用6.8厘米的\n\n04:39.960 --> 04:54.630\n他的下一代步槍當然有很多新的設計他XM7是這個用6.8厘米老共的下一代不是下一代現在正在用的步槍他已經洋氣AK系列了他現在也是用6.8的嘛6.8他用8厘米的啦大家都開始採用6.8的喔就我們現在國造的下一代步槍我們還是維持\n\n05:08.002 --> 05:27.941\n5.56的這一點我是請部長你們是專家是不是在我們相關的兵工的產業討論看看如果我們要研製下一代的新時代的步槍那我們跟盟友之間又是合作關係我們在步槍的口徑上有沒有必要思考大家下一代走同樣\n\n05:29.093 --> 05:51.590\n因為口徑的銜接是有影響的第二個會走到6.8有它的原因道理在特別是現代戰爭它在研究口徑上我剛才講的打得準打得遠雖然口徑大後座力就大但是它相較有一些優點另外把我們有限的資源國防資源永遠不夠啦我講真的永遠不夠部長我們在這邊\n\n05:53.476 --> 06:20.388\n共事那麼久了我永遠都是希望給國軍更多的預算更多的資源讓我們的官兵弟兄用更好的裝備嘛防彈背心要用更好的我們的槍要用更好的是不是在現階段這些經費上把我們現在平價不錯還沒有全面換裝完成的T-91其實未來的戰爭環境光學瞄準打得準握把打得準然後呢可以看得更遠\n\n06:21.621 --> 06:39.502\n我們現在平常在實彈我們現在說訓練實戰化嘛可是我們訓練實戰化用的是那個孔圈孔的那個瞄準它沒有關懸瞄準你平常訓練是這樣打你到戰場上給它關懸瞄準齁還未必會所以我的意思說倒不如把我們現在我們現在\n\n06:41.023 --> 06:57.372\n單兵要特戰化作戰環境訓練實戰化而我們所處的環境掩體防射精準度射擊距離對單兵的存活率其實很有幫助所以再這樣請教我們下一代研製的步槍\n\n06:58.913 --> 07:23.155\nXT-112我具體建議國防部思考下一代我們國軍弟兄所需要的步槍它的口徑是不是應該往6.8走我沒有定論我尊重專家我只告訴你說各國往這樣走那我們自己還要維持5.56至於說那我們現在庫存一大堆5.56子彈怎麼樣那個不是問題啦因為我們可以把我們如果未來走到那一天的時候T-91就會變後備部隊的嘛\n\n07:24.716 --> 07:33.095\n好槍給後備部隊嘛我們現役的主戰部隊開始先換裝下一代新式步槍可以走6.8厘米的嘛\n\n07:34.096 --> 07:57.877\n子彈不會浪費的啦所以我的意思是說兩個建議思考新一代步槍的口徑跟需求再研製因為我們現在試做幾把而已錢還沒有砸下去研製都在構思當中否則走到未來決定量場的我再來講這個我覺得就浪費工廠了思考第一步走對來第二個對於我們現有的部隊特別是主戰部隊\n\n07:59.409 --> 08:19.712\n是不是全面的把光學瞄準跟握把變標配讓他作戰訓練實戰化他平常就熟悉這些裝備那面對的是不管是灘頭城鎮各種作戰環境精準度提高存活率提高射擊距離拉遠我們在雄風二\n\n08:21.013 --> 08:41.554\n不管是雄二雄三公二公三我們在所有新式大裝備的時候都在思考更準更遠存活率更高可是我們最寶貴的國軍弟兄姊妹們他在用的單兵作戰武器的時候其實應該要套進同樣的思維然後未來我們每一個單兵都是我們國家重要資產存活率要提高\n\n08:42.655 --> 09:10.856\n訓練要提升然後讓他掌握的裝備跟真實用的裝備能夠一致那這樣對我們國軍建立一個具備嚇阻力的戰鬥量才有幫助我該建議這些因為我怕這是這一次會期我們兩個最後一次見面希望不是也歡迎你在旁邊坐你就這邊我是不是跟主席借幾分鐘部長怎麼看這個事情對我跟委員報告委員看法很對我們認為一個建案第一個考量為什麼要建這個案一定是敵情\n\n09:11.897 --> 09:32.754\n必须有变化,我们也要与时俱进,所以我们问他要做的需要,第二考量任务,任务能不能执行,执行第二考量敌人怎么变化,我们也要跟着变化,这绝对对的。那刚刚委员听的建议也很具体的,我想我们国军建案也好,建军的工作是要与时俱进。\n\n09:33.875 --> 10:00.056\n敵情有什麼變化,別的國家有如何的一個發展,這都是一個很好的參考,國軍不會停止我們的腳步,這第一我們不管以後建案各方面,從飛彈到槍炮到一般的個人用的武器,我想多把握這一點。我相信邱部長,這把我剛才提的這件事情,納入一個正式的討論評估,因為還來得及,我們還沒開始,所以思考清楚,把它一次做對來,好不好,謝謝部長。是應該的,謝謝委員。\n\n","segments":[{"start":0.793,"end":1.697,"text":"謝謝主席 麻煩邱部長邱部長請"},{"start":10.362,"end":38.219,"text":"黃委員好部長早我們常在國防委員會討論一些決策的問題因為不管是武器的研製採購或者是軍事的部署決策到執行部隊是一個口令一個動作所以決策很重要所以我今天特別在我們這一屆任期的最後階段希望跟部長討論一件事情我覺得這個決策看起來不大其實影響會深遠"},{"start":40.373,"end":67.21,"text":"我們不管是自己國造的武器比方說天弓系列雄風系列或者是雷霆2000或者我們去對外採購的不管現在傳說的AGM-158或者是F16V或海馬士我們其實都追求的是更精準打得更遠嚇阻力會更大精準更遠那花的經費其實相當多那回到我們單兵"},{"start":69.909,"end":87.439,"text":"一個步兵擁有的突擊步槍其實相較這些大筆的金額其實金額並不大但是我們的步槍對單兵的作戰能力特別在國土保衛戰我們現在看到不管發生在以色列發生過去在喬治亞或者現在在烏克蘭"},{"start":89.04,"end":105.259,"text":"我們台灣是一個城鎮遍布的環境我們沒有像那個大國有一大片的礦野跟沙漠所以精準打得遠對步兵的提高存活率跟戰鬥力其實很重要的我相信部長在這方面比我更專業"},{"start":106.801,"end":130.457,"text":"那我們現在呢單兵所使用的步槍我也看到我們軍備局確實有開始研製下一代XT-112這個步槍但我必須提出說這個決策我今天真的是希望部長思考看看我們現在國軍現有的步槍是T-91嘛但是我們後備部隊還有一些支援型的部隊還在用K2 T-65 K2"},{"start":133.171,"end":136.472,"text":"我先請教部長,就你了解我們T-91的評價如何?其實我們T-91的評價是好的,是不錯的我們如果武器可以出口,T-91的槍功還是我們少數可以出口的裝備之一所以T-91我看了,包含國際上的在分析台灣的國造T-91步槍,是一把好槍"},{"start":162.679,"end":177.275,"text":"做得不錯 這個要肯定那T-91步槍的口徑是5.56的嘛我們傳統都5.56的嘛那我們現在後備部隊跟支援型的部隊呢還有部分是用T-65 K2我們T-91還沒有全面換裝完成我這樣詮釋對不對應該目前是這樣子吧"},{"start":182.281,"end":193.922,"text":"現在T-91的評價其實不錯穩定度各方面都還不錯我們現在進行研製的XT-112下一個新世代的步槍它的口徑是不是還是5.56"},{"start":196.509,"end":212.458,"text":"還是5.56嘛我是軍備局局長跟委員報告還是5.56那為什麼要維持5.56他還要再加裝一些夜戰的那個我們還要加裝一些光學瞄準啊那個我待會會提我的意思是說我們下一代單兵用的步槍口徑為什麼還是維持5.56"},{"start":216.733,"end":236.259,"text":"他並沒有變心你懂我意思嗎口徑是一樣嘛報告委員因為我們在涉及5.56是造成人體傷害的一個口徑目前美軍他對於人體的傷害也是都採取5.56所以我就要跟你提這一點5.56有他的優點是他穿透性好是那以前呢"},{"start":237.639,"end":261.738,"text":"遏制的大概是7.62的他是撞擊力大打了他會停下來我們5.56打幾槍中彈之後可能第一時間還不曉得還往前跑加上現在各國的防彈鋼板越做越好所以5.56的穿透力跟嚇阻力尤其我們的兵士精兵對方可能是用人海如果你不能壓制住他他還是往前衝的話"},{"start":263.311,"end":278.5,"text":"其實這是一些思維的考慮所以我現在要提的就是說我們在有限的經費下有兩件事情我今天要具體建議的美國下一代的步槍他不是用5.56了他下一代步槍是用6.8厘米的"},{"start":279.96,"end":294.63,"text":"他的下一代步槍當然有很多新的設計他XM7是這個用6.8厘米老共的下一代不是下一代現在正在用的步槍他已經洋氣AK系列了他現在也是用6.8的嘛6.8他用8厘米的啦大家都開始採用6.8的喔就我們現在國造的下一代步槍我們還是維持"},{"start":308.002,"end":327.941,"text":"5.56的這一點我是請部長你們是專家是不是在我們相關的兵工的產業討論看看如果我們要研製下一代的新時代的步槍那我們跟盟友之間又是合作關係我們在步槍的口徑上有沒有必要思考大家下一代走同樣"},{"start":329.093,"end":351.59,"text":"因為口徑的銜接是有影響的第二個會走到6.8有它的原因道理在特別是現代戰爭它在研究口徑上我剛才講的打得準打得遠雖然口徑大後座力就大但是它相較有一些優點另外把我們有限的資源國防資源永遠不夠啦我講真的永遠不夠部長我們在這邊"},{"start":353.476,"end":380.388,"text":"共事那麼久了我永遠都是希望給國軍更多的預算更多的資源讓我們的官兵弟兄用更好的裝備嘛防彈背心要用更好的我們的槍要用更好的是不是在現階段這些經費上把我們現在平價不錯還沒有全面換裝完成的T-91其實未來的戰爭環境光學瞄準打得準握把打得準然後呢可以看得更遠"},{"start":381.621,"end":399.502,"text":"我們現在平常在實彈我們現在說訓練實戰化嘛可是我們訓練實戰化用的是那個孔 圈孔的那個瞄準它沒有關懸瞄準你平常訓練是這樣打你到戰場上給它關懸瞄準齁還未必會所以我的意思說倒不如把我們現在我們現在"},{"start":401.023,"end":417.372,"text":"單兵要特戰化作戰環境訓練實戰化而我們所處的環境掩體防射精準度射擊距離對單兵的存活率其實很有幫助所以再這樣請教我們下一代研製的步槍"},{"start":418.913,"end":443.155,"text":"XT-112我具體建議國防部思考下一代我們國軍弟兄所需要的步槍它的口徑是不是應該往6.8走我沒有定論我尊重專家我只告訴你說各國往這樣走那我們自己還要維持5.56至於說那我們現在庫存一大堆5.56子彈怎麼樣那個不是問題啦因為我們可以把我們如果未來走到那一天的時候T-91就會變後備部隊的嘛"},{"start":444.716,"end":453.095,"text":"好槍給後備部隊嘛我們現役的主戰部隊開始先換裝下一代新式步槍可以走6.8厘米的嘛"},{"start":454.096,"end":477.877,"text":"子彈不會浪費的啦所以我的意思是說兩個建議思考新一代步槍的口徑跟需求再研製因為我們現在試做幾把而已錢還沒有砸下去研製都在構思當中否則走到未來決定量場的我再來講這個我覺得就浪費工廠了思考第一步走對來第二個對於我們現有的部隊特別是主戰部隊"},{"start":479.409,"end":499.712,"text":"是不是全面的把光學瞄準跟握把變標配讓他作戰訓練實戰化他平常就熟悉這些裝備那面對的是不管是灘頭城鎮各種作戰環境精準度提高存活率提高射擊距離拉遠我們在雄風二"},{"start":501.013,"end":521.554,"text":"不管是雄二雄三公二公三我們在所有新式大裝備的時候都在思考更準更遠存活率更高可是我們最寶貴的國軍弟兄姊妹們他在用的單兵作戰武器的時候其實應該要套進同樣的思維然後未來我們每一個單兵都是我們國家重要資產存活率要提高"},{"start":522.655,"end":550.856,"text":"訓練要提升然後讓他掌握的裝備跟真實用的裝備能夠一致那這樣對我們國軍建立一個具備嚇阻力的戰鬥量才有幫助我該建議這些因為我怕這是這一次會期我們兩個最後一次見面希望不是也歡迎你在旁邊坐你就這邊我是不是跟主席借幾分鐘部長怎麼看這個事情對我跟委員報告委員看法很對我們認為一個建案第一個考量為什麼要建這個案一定是敵情"},{"start":551.897,"end":572.754,"text":"必须有变化,我们也要与时俱进,所以我们问他要做的需要,第二考量任务,任务能不能执行,执行第二考量敌人怎么变化,我们也要跟着变化,这绝对对的。那刚刚委员听的建议也很具体的,我想我们国军建案也好,建军的工作是要与时俱进。"},{"start":573.875,"end":600.056,"text":"敵情有什麼變化,別的國家有如何的一個發展,這都是一個很好的參考,國軍不會停止我們的腳步,這第一我們不管以後建案各方面,從飛彈到槍炮到一般的個人用的武器,我想多把握這一點。我相信邱部長,這把我剛才提的這件事情,納入一個正式的討論評估,因為還來得及,我們還沒開始,所以思考清楚,把它一次做對來,好不好,謝謝部長。是應該的,謝謝委員。"}]}}}}