{"id":148951,"url":"https://ivod.ly.gov.tw/Play/Clip/1M/148951","video_url":"https://ivod-lyvod.cdn.hinet.net/vod_1/_definst_/mp4:1MClips/a0ee4ec253a72029b7849d1cf748adadbdc0b11ed89c5ff9c986728e607a032251d7629deae48ba75ea18f28b6918d91.mp4/playlist.m3u8","委員名稱":"李貴敏","委員發言時間":"10:03:39 - 10:17:31","影片長度":"00:13:52","會議時間":"2023-12-11T09:00:00+08:00","會議名稱":"立法院第10屆第8會期財政委員會第20次全體委員會議（事由：一、邀請金融監督管理委員會黃主任委員天牧就（一）「開放銀行」（Open Banking）政策之回顧與展望（二）純網銀、純網保之發展與挑戰進行專題報告，並備質詢。\n二、審查本院民進黨黨團擬具「中央政府總預算案審查程序第三條條文修正草案」案。\n【12月11日及13日二天一次會】）","meet":{"tmpMeeting":null,"title":"第10屆第8會期財政委員會第20次全體委員會議","term":10,"type":"委員會","sessionPeriod":8,"sessionTimes":20,"committees":[20],"id":"委員會-10-8-20-20"},"date":"2023-12-11","duration":832,"end_time":"2023-12-11T10:17:31+08:00","start_time":"2023-12-11T10:03:39+08:00","features":["gazette"],"type":"Clip","gazette":{"lineno":314,"blocks":[["李委員貴敏：（10時3分）謝謝主席。主席，我們麻煩請主委。"],["主席（沈委員發惠）：好，請黃主委上台備詢。"],["黃主任委員天牧：委員早。"],["李委員貴敏：主委好。你記得上禮拜我在質詢你的時候你告訴我的答案，關於敵意併購的適格者的答案跟實情不符，這個你知道嘛？"],["黃主任委員天牧：有，其實我們……"],["李委員貴敏：沒有關係，你告訴我……"],["黃主任委員天牧：我們有發函給您報告了。"],["李委員貴敏：你告訴我你知不知道？"],["黃主任委員天牧：我知道。"],["李委員貴敏：你知不知道你告訴我的答案跟實際上不一樣，沒有關係，但是你知道嘛，對不對？我今天只要確定你知道……"],["黃主任委員天牧：我知道。"],["李委員貴敏：好，謝謝。因為在當天，主委，當天在你回答之後，我光是走到後面還沒出大門的時候，所有的媒體朋友就跟我講，你的答案是錯的，OK？但是還好，你當天下午就更正了嘛，你當天下午就更正了，但我還是要鼓勵一下，人誰無過，對不對？過而能改善莫大焉。對不起，我犯了大怒，不應該講這個古文的出處的。但是重點在於知道錯了可以去改它，我在這裡還是嘉勉，但是我還是要鼓勵、拜託主委，我們的憲法規定人民有知的權利，讓人民知道事實的真相，可以嗎？"],["黃主任委員天牧：謝謝。"],["李委員貴敏：好，謝謝。那我們開始今天的題目，第一個就是牽涉到年底作帳的行情。主委，你認為我們年底所謂的作帳行情是可以到1萬8嗎？還是怎麼樣？"],["黃主任委員天牧：我們不預估股價。"],["李委員貴敏：好。因為我們看到媒體的報導，還有民間的憂慮，你剛剛前面才答應我說你會讓老百姓知道事實的真相嘛！我沒有要你預估。但是在民間就有顧慮，到底現在是一個作帳行情，還是一個作夢的行情？主委怎麼看？是作帳，還是作夢？"],["黃主任委員天牧：證券市場就是資訊揭露，民眾就是審慎選股，注意風險。"],["李委員貴敏：對。但是我們看到11月的營收公布了，11月的營收我們看起來並沒有大幅度的起色，可是我們的股價是不跌，然後反而竄升，所以民間才在說到底年底的作帳是真的有作帳行情，還是單純的作夢，這個是炒出來的？您沒有觀察到這個現象，還是說有這個現象、民間有這個顧慮，但是你置之不理？"],["黃主任委員天牧：股價有些反應是國際跟國內一些經濟金融情況的變化，尤其我們是以半導體電子產業為主，所以跟美國的費城半導體或NASDAQ的連結是有一定的程度。"],["李委員貴敏：好，是因為國外國際股市影響的關係？"],["黃主任委員天牧：有一些產業，不是所有。"],["李委員貴敏：OK，所以也要提醒民眾，因為顯然11月的營收出來，各公司出來的情況都不太妙啦！我第二個問題要請教的，同樣，我今天問的問題都牽涉到民眾知的權利，純網銀的虧損是持續擴大，今年6月份我們看到虧損的數額，從2022年底，再比較到今年第三季的數字，它是持續的擴大，這個在5年之內它是可以損益兩平嗎？目前的現狀是怎麼樣？這些純網銀的部分會再繼續投入，還是我們的金管會到底做了什麼樣一個措施？"],["黃主任委員天牧：今年至少有兩家以上辦理增資，我們不斷的跟他溝通，他需要哪些業務的開放，這是我們在做的。"],["李委員貴敏：對，那你有沒有全部公開，然後讓全民知道？因為我們在搜查資料的時候好累喔！"],["黃主任委員天牧：今天我們的報告就是已經公開了。"],["李委員貴敏：5年內損益兩平是可以達成的是不是？很務實的回答我。"],["黃主任委員天牧：我沒有這樣子預估，我至少在過去財委會有說有一家有可能也許在5年之後會有損益兩平。"],["李委員貴敏：好，所以只有一家……"],["黃主任委員天牧：因為他開業時間不一樣。"],["李委員貴敏：好，所以其他部分是你希望，但是他沒有辦法達成就是了？"],["黃主任委員天牧：這是要大家努力的，不是只有金管會。"],["李委員貴敏：不是，這個已經虧損這麼多的努力的金額，就是說欠錢欠一定比例的錢，然後能不能達成，就是它有一個比較務實的評估方式，然後你的鼓勵措施是什麼？這個可不可以公布？"],["黃主任委員天牧：這個就在今天的報告中……"],["李委員貴敏：沒有，我就是沒看到才會問你嘛！對不對？我要的是很務實的，而不是說我提到一句話，今天的報告裡面就有。我再另外提一個東西也是民眾非常非常關心的，那就是投資詐騙，主委，這個投資詐騙的東西我可不是只告訴你1年、2年而已，對不對？這個在以前很早的時候我就已經提醒了，可是我們看到今天這個投資詐騙創新高，然後關於解決的部分，數發部說他們有建立，唐部長跟Meta也好、跟Google也好，他們有溝通，然後金管會也上了這個平台，我們看到你上了平台之後，這個投資詐騙的廣告是暴增的，除了1.5萬件之外，這個是表面上的，還不包括潛在的，潛在的部分還有更多，所以對於這個東西，金管會有沒有在我們提醒了1、2年之後究竟做了什麼樣的措施？我們也知道，主委，你不會否認現在民眾用的最多的是LINE嘛，對不對？是不是？還是你否認？"],["黃主任委員天牧：用了多少，我想LINE是其中之一吧！"],["李委員貴敏：多不多？"],["黃主任委員天牧：但是多少，我沒有這個數據。"],["李委員貴敏：我沒有問你數據，我說多不多嘛？"],["黃主任委員天牧：多是一個相對的概念，我不知道……"],["李委員貴敏：你連多不多都不肯承認它多不多，那我就回答你……"],["黃主任委員天牧：都很多，每個平台都很多。"],["李委員貴敏：都很多，謝謝，都很多！那我們解決了Google、解決了Meta，LINE的地方不用解決嗎？"],["黃主任委員天牧：報告委員，LINE不是屬於金管會這邊在上次規劃範圍之內的。"],["李委員貴敏：好，所以簡單來講，Google是你主管的？"],["黃主任委員天牧：Google也不是我們主管，我們只是在……"],["李委員貴敏：Meta是你主管的？"],["黃主任委員天牧：也都不是我們主管，只是在投信投顧法安排一個條文。"],["李委員貴敏：既然這些……，不是，那你的回答要有邏輯啊！對不對？我問你LINE的部分，你說LINE不是你主管，然後我前面才誇獎你Meta跟Google解決了，那Meta跟Google也不是你主管的，為什麼它們二個解決了，LINE……"],["黃主任委員天牧：那是跨部會合作要求在投信投顧法訂一個法源。"],["李委員貴敏：懂了，所以簡單來講，Meta跟Google的解決跟金管會無關，是因為跨部會的關係解決，所以現在LINE不解決，就是跨部會也有問題，所以它沒辦法解決，因為這三個都不是金管會主管，所以沒有辦法解決！邏輯是這樣子嗎？"],["黃主任委員天牧：報告委員，這個我們會再繼續努力。"],["李委員貴敏：不是，我剛剛問你的問題，你哪一件事情不持續努力了？我們現在要解決問題啊！我們現在不是要行政單位一天到晚制定規則A、B、C，然後要老百姓屈服，今天你在說很多問題，前面說我們應該要仲介的部分，叫民眾不要受騙什麼東西，你的職責不在叫民眾不要受騙啊！是不是？你既然是在管，那麼你主掌的職務你就要負責。好，我們再看一下，主委，你說洗錢防制是你管吧，對不對？"],["黃主任委員天牧：金融機構的洗錢防制。"],["李委員貴敏：好，你上次的答案是說合法機構的洗錢防制。"],["黃主任委員天牧：金融機構的洗錢防制。"],["李委員貴敏：好，你今天更正，也很好！那我就請教一下，主委，高資產客戶的財富管理會不會變成洗錢的一個管道？我說開放外銀會不會變成一個洗錢的管道？會，還是不會？"],["黃主任委員天牧：這個推論我覺得有問題，任何的業務都要受到……"],["李委員貴敏：那我告訴你，我覺得沒問題，你知道為什麼我覺得沒問題？主委，我覺得你應該比我熟，過往是不是曾經就有過外銀幫我們某一個政治人物的錢大筆、大筆的洗？媒體上面也有講啊！那個訊息你不知道？"],["黃主任委員天牧：任何金融機構的業務都有可能……"],["李委員貴敏：不是，我問你知不知道那個訊息？"],["黃主任委員天牧：我聽說過。"],["李委員貴敏：我剛剛前面提到，我沒有指人道姓的原因是我不希望把這個模糊焦點，對不對？但那個訊息，就是過往外銀在洗錢的部分，幫政治人物洗錢這件事情你知道嗎？"],["黃主任委員天牧：我應該有聽說過。"],["李委員貴敏：好，很好，沒關係，因為我們不講誰嘛！但是現在對於高資產客戶的財富管理，你怎麼避免類似的情形發生？還是現在就有政治人物需要捲款潛逃，透過洗錢的這個方式來做？有沒有這樣的……"],["黃主任委員天牧：申請的時候就會去做審查。"],["李委員貴敏：申請的時候去審查什麼？"],["黃主任委員天牧：申請開辦業務的時候就會做審查。"],["李委員貴敏：你是審查誰？"],["黃主任委員天牧：審查申請要做高資產客戶財管業務的金融機構。"],["李委員貴敏：對，然後怎麼樣子……"],["黃主任委員天牧：它的審查計畫……"],["李委員貴敏：你去審查它之後它就不會有洗錢的問題，你這個邏輯是怎麼出來的？"],["黃主任委員天牧：它的計畫中會列出它在洗錢防制的規劃跟執行。"],["李委員貴敏：對，那怎麼樣呢？你過往沒做嗎？"],["黃主任委員天牧：都有做。"],["李委員貴敏：我剛剛前面講的那個案子，你沒做嗎？那你都有做，為什麼前面的案子發生了？你現在做的跟前面那個案子發生的內容是什麼差異性呢？"],["黃主任委員天牧：那是後面執行或是違法的問題。"],["李委員貴敏：好，很好，對不對？主委，你願意坦誠講，我們才能夠解決問題！執法的問題，現在這個高資產客戶財務管理的部分，你怎麼樣透過你的執法確定它不會成為政治人物洗錢的管道？"],["黃主任委員天牧：我們金融機構都有跟法務部的洗錢犯罪防制中心，如果有疑似的交易就會通報。"],["李委員貴敏：那以前為什麼會發生呢？"],["黃主任委員天牧：報告委員……"],["李委員貴敏：你以前沒有跟法務部有聯絡？"],["黃主任委員天牧：報告委員，那個個案我不太清楚，我只知道有這樣一個印象。"],["李委員貴敏：對，但是你現在就要面對它嘛！以前發生的就是給你一個教訓嘛！對不對？你已經上了一課，你就要解決嘛！這種用迴避的方式─我們會盡力、我們會努力、謝謝委員指導！這個真的不必要啦！","下一個我要請教你就是，主委，同樣的，我們講虛擬資產監理的部分，你現在是不做嘛！但是我提醒你，Z世代，也就是我們說11歲到26歲Z世代的部分，他們對於虛擬資產的投資占比是相當大的，這個東西，你是打算怎麼樣子來保護我們這些年輕人？還是你的邏輯就是我要提醒他，他自己做的事情自己負責？就這樣子？還是說你現在是用什麼樣的態度？因為71%的民眾認為應該要強化監理，你現在是認為不需要還是怎麼樣？金管會態度是什麼？"],["黃主任委員天牧：我們是投資型虛擬資產的主管機關，9月份發布指導原則，年底VASP工會成立，會訂自律規範。"],["李委員貴敏：主委，你真的要這樣子念書、背的話就沒什麼太大意思了，你知道X世代、Y世代、Z世代，還是你不知道？"],["黃主任委員天牧：我知道。"],["李委員貴敏：好，那Z世代是幾歲啊？"],["黃主任委員天牧：1995年以後出生的。"],["李委員貴敏：好，沒關係，差一點點無所謂啦！但對於這些人，你跟他們講說我們有什麼東西，你要他……就解決問題了嗎？"],["黃主任委員天牧：上架、資產區隔、冷熱錢包，這些都是我們在九大原則中有規劃的。"],["李委員貴敏：主委你這樣講就沒意思了，我們看到JPEX問題，你解決了嗎？"],["黃主任委員天牧：那個不是，那是off show的，不是on show的。"],["李委員貴敏：對啊，那你為什麼讓off show的在臺灣能夠買賣呢？"],["黃主任委員天牧：任何非法的東西都不是我們能完全禁止的，但是我們會廣為宣傳……"],["李委員貴敏：我的天啊！所以你的態度就是對於非法的部分沒輒，你要老百姓自己去決定它是合法、非法，你只做大內宣，要他們自己注意。","最後一個問題請教之後我就下台，關於防疫險的部分，再保你有出面協調嗎？"],["黃主任委員天牧：現階段我們不會介入，那是商業上的契約。"],["李委員貴敏：那再保公司不賠的話，對我們的業者有多大的衝擊？"],["黃主任委員天牧：會不會賠我不確定，我不能回答假設性的問題……"],["李委員貴敏：沒關係，我就假設嘛！"],["黃主任委員天牧：我不能回答假設性的問題。"],["李委員貴敏：假設性問題你不回答，然後你對真正發生的問題遺憾，那我們怎麼解決問題呢？"],["黃主任委員天牧：我沒有說對真正發生的問題遺憾，真正發生的問題需要相關法律形式程序，需要政府機關說明的，我們會說明。"],["李委員貴敏：你不覺得這個事情，我們說預防勝於治療，你不認同？"],["黃主任委員天牧：報告委員，商業契約處理的時間是很重要的。"],["李委員貴敏：所以民間的問題，你不管就好？"],["主席：好，李委員……"],["李委員貴敏：我再請教，你知道寵物保險現在剩兩家，那毛小孩怎麼辦啊？你也不管？"],["黃主任委員天牧：因為它的損失率非常高，業者做不下去，所以目前只有兩家。"],["李委員貴敏：所以你就是不管，政府的態度就是即便知道問題發生，然後這些民間要處理的事情民間自己處理，那我們就乾脆無政府嘛！"],["黃主任委員天牧：報告委員，這樣的說法並不公平……"],["李委員貴敏：如果是這樣的態度的話，我會認為乾脆就無政府，這些錢省下來。以上謝謝。"],["主席：好，李委員謝謝。"],["黃主任委員天牧：委員，謝謝你。生日快樂。"],["主席：謝謝李委員的配合，李委員生日快樂。"],["李委員貴敏：謝謝主席、謝謝主委、謝謝大家的祝賀，謝謝。"],["主席：接下來請郭國文委員上台質詢。"]],"agenda":{"page_end":342,"meet_id":"委員會-10-8-20-20","speakers":["沈發惠","林德福","吳秉叡","賴士葆","李貴敏","郭國文","費鴻泰","鍾佳濱","高嘉瑜","陳椒華","林楚茵","羅明才"],"page_start":293,"meetingDate":["2023-12-11"],"gazette_id":"1130201","agenda_lcidc_ids":["1130201_00005"],"meet_name":"立法院第10屆第8會期財政委員會第20次全體委員會議紀錄","content":"一、邀請金融監督管理委員會黃主任委員天牧就（一）「開放銀行」（Open 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00:00:17,636\n主委好,你記得上禮拜我在質詢你的時候你告訴我的答案關於這個敵意併購的適格者的這個答案呢跟實情不符這個你知道嗎\n\n2\n00:00:19,321 --> 00:00:22,964\n主委當天你在這個回答之後我光是走到這個後面還沒出大門的時候所有的媒體朋友就跟我講\n\n3\n00:00:43,700 --> 00:00:59,274\n你的答案是錯的OK但是呢還好啦你當天下午就更正了嘛你當天下午就更正了但我還是要鼓勵一下這個人誰無過對不對過而能改善莫大焉對不起\n\n4\n00:00:59,980 --> 00:01:21,573\n我犯了這個大怒這個不應該講這個古文的這個出處的但是重點是在於知道錯了可以去改它我在這裡還是加冕但是我還是要鼓勵拜託那個主委啊這個我們的憲法規定了人民有知的權利讓人民知道事實的真相可以嗎\n\n5\n00:01:22,703 --> 00:01:22,903\n我們不預估股價\n\n6\n00:01:39,055 --> 00:02:05,115\n因為我們看到媒體的報導還有民間的憂慮你剛剛前面才答應我說你會讓老百姓知道事實的真相我沒有要你預估但是在民間就有顧慮說到底現在是一個作帳行情還是一個做夢的行情主委怎麼看是作帳還是做夢政經的市場就是資訊介入民眾就是審慎選股注意風險\n\n7\n00:02:06,202 --> 00:02:27,259\n但是我們看到11月的營收它是公佈了11月的營收我們看起來營收並沒有大幅度的起色可是我們股價它是不跌然後反而竄升了所以民間才在想說到底這個年底的作帳是真的有這個作帳的行情還是單純的做夢這個是炒出來的\n\n8\n00:02:30,662 --> 00:02:36,559\n這個您沒有觀察到這個現象還是是說有這個現象民間有這個顧慮但是你置之不理\n\n9\n00:02:37,981 --> 00:03:05,796\n股價有些反應是國際跟國內的一些經濟金融情況的變化尤其我們是以半導體電子產業為主所以跟美國的這個費城半導體或NASDAQ連結是有一定的程度是因為國外國際的股市的影響有些產業不是所有所以要提醒民眾因為顯然11月的營收出來的各公司出來的情況都不太妙啦我第二個問題要請教的同樣\n\n10\n00:03:06,716 --> 00:03:29,035\n我今天问的问题其实都牵涉到民众资的权利存网银的亏损是持续扩大今年六月份的部分我们看到亏损的数从2022年底再比较到今年的第三季的数字它是持续的扩大这个在五年之内它是可以损一两平\n\n11\n00:03:29,875 --> 00:03:56,488\n現在目前的現狀是怎麼樣還是這些存網營的部分呢他會再繼續投入還是是我們的金管會到底做了什麼樣的一個措施今年都有至少有兩家以上辦理增資那我們不斷的跟他溝通他需要哪些業務的開放這是我們在做的那你有沒有全部公開然後讓全民知道因為我們在搜查這個資料的時候好累啊今天我們的報告就是已經公開了\n\n12\n00:03:57,506 --> 00:04:07,208\n五年內損益兩平是可以達成的是不是很務實地可以達成我沒有這樣子預估我至少在過去才有會有說有一家有可能在五年之後會有損益兩平\n\n13\n00:04:08,235 --> 00:04:31,620\n因為他開業時間不一樣所以其他的部分他是有你希望但是他沒有辦法達成就是了這是要大家努力的不是只有金融隊那你這個已經虧損這麼多的這個努力的這個金額就是說你欠錢欠一定的比例的錢然後你能不能達成他有一個就是說比較務實的一個評估的方式然後你的鼓勵措施是什麼這個可不可以公佈啊\n\n14\n00:04:31,900 --> 00:04:50,726\n這就在今天的報告中沒有我就是沒看到才會問你嘛對不對我要的是很務實的而不是說我提到一句話今天的報告裡面就有我另外再提一個東西也是民眾非常非常關心的就是投資詐騙的主委這個投資詐騙的東西我可不是只告訴你一年兩年而已嘛對不對\n\n15\n00:04:51,526 --> 00:04:55,871\n我這個以前很早的時候呢就已經提醒可是我們看到我們今天啊這個投資詐騙創新高啊然後解決的部分呢原來啊其實速發部講說是他們有建立跟因為這個唐部長呢跟這個\n\n16\n00:05:06,764 --> 00:05:15,667\nMeta也好跟Google也好他們有溝通然後金管會也上了這個平台然後我們看到就是說你上了平台之後這個投資詐騙的廣告它是暴增的除了1.5萬件之後這個是表面上面的還不瓜括潛在的潛在的部分還有更多\n\n17\n00:05:28,112 --> 00:05:51,144\n所以這個東西儘管會有沒有在我們提醒了一兩年之後究竟做了什麼樣的措施好那我們也知道主委你不會否認說現在民眾用的最多的是LINE嘛對不對是不是還是你否認這個用了多少我想LINE是其中之一吧多不多但是多少我沒有這個數據我沒有叫你問數據我說多不多嘛\n\n18\n00:05:51,874 --> 00:06:15,348\n多是一個相對的概念你連多不多你都不肯承認它多不多那我就回到前面多很多多很多每個品牌都很多謝謝多很多那我們解決了Google解決了MetaLine的地方不用解決嗎報告委員Line不是屬於金管會這邊在上次規劃的範圍之內的好所以簡單來講Google是你主管的\n\n19\n00:06:16,977 --> 00:06:42,059\nGoogle也不是我們主管,只是在投信、投顧法安排一個法條文那你的回答要有邏輯啊,對不對?你講說,我問你Line,你說Line不是你主管然後我前面才誇獎你說Meta跟Google解決了那Meta跟Google也不是你主管的,為什麼他們兩個解決了?那是跨部會合作要求在投信、投顧法定一個反應\n\n20\n00:06:42,679 --> 00:07:01,230\n所以簡單來講Meta跟Google的解決跟金管會無關是因為跨部會的關係解決所以現在LINE不解決就是跨部會也有問題所以它沒辦法解決因為這三個都不是金管會主管所以沒有辦法解決邏輯是這樣子嗎報告委員這個我們會再繼續努力\n\n21\n00:07:06,854 --> 00:07:36,354\n不是我剛問你的問題你哪一件事情不持續努力了我們現在要解決問題我們現在要行政單位不是要行政單位一天到晚給我制定這個規定規則ABC然後要老百姓去扶今天你在講說很多的問題前面講說我們要仲介的部分叫民眾不要受騙什麼東西你的職責不再叫民眾不要受騙了是不是你既然是在管你的組長的職務你就要負責好我們再看一下\n\n22\n00:07:37,756 --> 00:07:43,145\n主委你說洗錢房子是你管吧對不對金融機構的洗錢房子\n\n23\n00:07:46,355 --> 00:08:06,514\n妳上次的答案是講說合法機構的洗錢方式金融機構的洗錢方式妳今天更正也很好那我就請教一下主委高資產客戶的財富管理會不會變成一個這個洗錢的一個管道我說開放外營啦會不會變成一個洗錢的管道會還是不會\n\n24\n00:08:08,284 --> 00:08:14,226\n這個推論我覺得有問題任何的議員都要說到我告訴你我覺得沒問題耶你知道為什麼我覺得沒問題過往啊主委我覺得你應該比我熟啊過往是不是曾經就有過外營然後幫我們某一個政治人物的這個錢呢大筆大筆的洗媒體上面也有講啊那個訊息你不知道\n\n25\n00:08:32,031 --> 00:08:48,128\n我問你,你知不知道那個訊息啊?我剛剛前面提到,我沒有指人道姓的原因,是我不希望把這個模糊焦點,對不對?但那個訊息就是過往外營呢,讓這個洗錢的部分呢,幫政治人物洗錢,這件事情你知道嗎?\n\n26\n00:08:48,849 --> 00:09:09,301\n我應該有聽說過但是現在你去對於這個高資產客戶的財富管理你怎麼避免類似的情形發生還是現在就有政治人物需要捲環潛逃透過洗錢的這個方式來做申請的時候就會去做審查\n\n27\n00:09:10,436 --> 00:09:30,049\n申請的時候去審查什麼?申請開辦業務的時候就會做審查你是審查誰?審查申請要做高資產客戶財管業務的金融機構對然後怎麼樣子你去審查他之後他就不會有洗錢的問題你這個邏輯是怎麼出來的?計畫中會列出他在洗錢房子的規劃跟執行\n\n28\n00:09:32,008 --> 00:09:43,546\n對那怎麼樣呢你過往沒做嗎我剛前面講的那個案子你沒做嗎那你都有做為什麼前面的案子發生了你現在做的跟前面那個案子發生的內容是什麼差異性咧\n\n29\n00:09:44,249 --> 00:10:12,902\n那是後面執行或是違法的問題很好對不對主委你願意坦誠講我們才能解決問題執法的問題現在你這個高資產客戶的財務管理的部分你怎麼樣透過你的執法的部分確定他不會成為政治人物洗錢的管道我們金融機構都有跟法務部的洗錢犯罪防治中心如果有疑似的交易那你以前為什麼會發生呢你以前沒有跟法務部有聯絡\n\n30\n00:10:14,584 --> 00:10:36,430\n那個個案我不太清楚我只知道有這樣一個印象對但是你現在你就要面對它嘛以前發生的就是給你一個教訓嘛對不對你已經上了一課你就要解決嘛這種用迴避的方式我們會盡力我們會努力謝謝委員指導這個真的不必要啦下一個我要請教你就是說主委同樣的我們講虛擬資產監理的部分\n\n31\n00:10:38,931 --> 00:10:48,319\n你現在是不做嘛但是我提醒你就說有這個Z世代的這個也就是說我們講說11歲到這個26歲的這個Z世代的部分他們對於虛擬資產的部分呢他的投資佔比是相當大的\n\n32\n00:10:54,904 --> 00:11:09,639\n那這個東西你是打算怎麼樣子來保護我們這些年輕人還是說你的邏輯就是說我要提醒他他自己做的事情自己負責就這樣子還是說你現在是用什麼樣的態度因為71%的民眾認為他應該要強化你的這個監理你現在是認為不需要還是怎麼樣監管會態度是什麼\n\n33\n00:11:19,144 --> 00:11:41,509\n我們是投資型虛擬資產的主管機關,九月份發布指導原則,年底VASP工會會成立,會遞資歷規範。主委,真的,你要這樣子念書,這樣背的話我們就沒什麼太大意思了。你知道X世代、Y世代、Z世代還是你不知道?我知道。你知道,好。那Z世代是幾歲啊?1995年以後出生的。\n\n34\n00:11:42,799 --> 00:12:09,589\n沒關係啦,差一點點無所謂啦但是這些的人你跟他講說我們有什麼東西你要跟他談就解決問題嗎?上架、資產區隔、冷熱錢包這些都是我們在規劃中,酒吧原則中有規劃的那個主委你這樣講就沒意思了,為什麼?我們看到JPEG問題你解決了嗎?那個不是,那是offshore的,不是onshore的對啊,那offshore的你為什麼讓他在台灣能夠買賣呢?\n\n35\n00:12:10,836 --> 00:12:33,433\n任何非法的東西都不是我們能完全禁止的,但是我們會廣為宣傳所以你的態度就是非法的部分你就沒事那你要老百姓自己去決定它是合法,決定是非法你只做大內宣說你們要自己注意我在最後一個問題請教,我就下台那個防疫險的部分,在保你有出面協調嗎?\n\n36\n00:12:35,190 --> 00:12:59,389\n現階段我們不會介入那是商業上的契約那這個債保公司不賠的話對我們的業者有多大的衝擊會不會賠我不確定我不能回答假設性的問題假設性問題你不回答然後真正發生的問題你遺憾那這我們怎麼解決問題我不會說真正發生遺憾真正發生需要相關法律形式程序需要政府機關說明我們會說明\n\n37\n00:13:01,021 --> 00:13:19,268\n那你不會覺得這個事情我們講說這個預防勝於治療你不認同報告委員商業企業我們處理的時間是很重要的所以民間的問題你不管就好我再請教你知道這個寵物保險現在剩兩家毛小孩怎麼辦\n\n38\n00:13:21,021 --> 00:13:41,566\n因為他的損失率非常的高所以業者做不下去所以你就是不管政府的態度就是說即便你知道問題的發生然後這些民間要處理的事情民間自己處理那我們就乾脆無政府嘛如果是這樣子的一個態度的話我會認為乾脆就無政府這些錢滾下來以上謝謝謝謝你生日快樂謝謝李委員的\n\n39\n00:13:47,096 --> 00:13:48,923\n配合,謝謝,幼兒園生日快樂\n\n","tsv":"start\tend\ttext\n929\t17636\t主委好,你記得上禮拜我在質詢你的時候你告訴我的答案關於這個敵意併購的適格者的這個答案呢跟實情不符這個你知道嗎\n19321\t22964\t主委 當天你在這個回答之後我光是走到這個後面還沒出大門的時候所有的媒體朋友就跟我講\n43700\t59274\t你的答案是錯的OK但是呢還好啦你當天下午就更正了嘛你當天下午就更正了但我還是要鼓勵一下這個人誰無過對不對過而能改善莫大焉對不起\n59980\t81573\t我犯了這個大怒這個不應該講這個古文的這個出處的但是重點是在於知道錯了可以去改它我在這裡還是加冕但是我還是要鼓勵拜託那個主委啊這個我們的憲法規定了人民有知的權利讓人民知道事實的真相可以嗎\n82703\t82903\t我們不預估股價\n99055\t125115\t因為我們看到媒體的報導還有民間的憂慮你剛剛前面才答應我說你會讓老百姓知道事實的真相我沒有要你預估但是在民間就有顧慮說到底現在是一個作帳行情還是一個做夢的行情 主委怎麼看是作帳還是做夢政經的市場就是資訊介入民眾就是審慎選股 注意風險\n126202\t147259\t但是我們看到11月的營收它是公佈了11月的營收我們看起來營收並沒有大幅度的起色可是我們股價它是不跌然後反而竄升了所以民間才在想說到底這個年底的作帳是真的有這個作帳的行情還是單純的做夢這個是炒出來的\n150662\t156559\t這個您沒有觀察到這個現象還是是說有這個現象民間有這個顧慮但是你置之不理\n157981\t185796\t股價有些反應是國際跟國內的一些經濟金融情況的變化尤其我們是以半導體電子產業為主所以跟美國的這個費城半導體或NASDAQ連結是有一定的程度是因為國外國際的股市的影響有些產業不是所有所以要提醒民眾因為顯然11月的營收出來的各公司出來的情況都不太妙啦我第二個問題要請教的同樣\n186716\t209035\t我今天问的问题其实都牵涉到民众资的权利存网银的亏损是持续扩大今年六月份的部分我们看到亏损的数从2022年底再比较到今年的第三季的数字它是持续的扩大这个在五年之内它是可以损一两平\n209875\t236488\t現在目前的現狀是怎麼樣還是這些存網營的部分呢他會再繼續投入還是是我們的金管會到底做了什麼樣的一個措施今年都有至少有兩家以上辦理增資那我們不斷的跟他溝通他需要哪些業務的開放這是我們在做的那你有沒有全部公開然後讓全民知道因為我們在搜查這個資料的時候好累啊今天我們的報告就是已經公開了\n237506\t247208\t五年內損益兩平是可以達成的是不是很務實地可以達成我沒有這樣子預估我至少在過去才有會有說有一家有可能在五年之後會有損益兩平\n248235\t271620\t因為他開業時間不一樣所以其他的部分他是有你希望但是他沒有辦法達成就是了這是要大家努力的不是只有金融隊那你這個已經虧損這麼多的這個努力的這個金額就是說你欠錢欠一定的比例的錢然後你能不能達成他有一個就是說比較務實的一個評估的方式然後你的鼓勵措施是什麼這個可不可以公佈啊\n271900\t290726\t這就在今天的報告中沒有我就是沒看到才會問你嘛對不對我要的是很務實的而不是說我提到一句話今天的報告裡面就有我另外再提一個東西也是民眾非常非常關心的就是投資詐騙的主委這個投資詐騙的東西我可不是只告訴你一年兩年而已嘛對不對\n291526\t295871\t我這個以前很早的時候呢就已經提醒可是我們看到我們今天啊這個投資詐騙創新高啊然後解決的部分呢原來啊其實速發部講說是他們有建立跟因為這個唐部長呢跟這個\n306764\t315667\tMeta也好跟Google也好他們有溝通然後金管會也上了這個平台然後我們看到就是說你上了平台之後這個投資詐騙的廣告它是暴增的除了1.5萬件之後這個是表面上面的還不瓜括潛在的潛在的部分還有更多\n328112\t351144\t所以這個東西儘管會有沒有在我們提醒了一兩年之後究竟做了什麼樣的措施好那我們也知道主委你不會否認說現在民眾用的最多的是LINE嘛對不對是不是還是你否認這個用了多少我想LINE是其中之一吧多不多但是多少我沒有這個數據我沒有叫你問數據我說多不多嘛\n351874\t375348\t多是一個相對的概念你連多不多你都不肯承認它多不多那我就回到前面多很多 多很多 每個品牌都很多謝謝 多很多那我們解決了Google解決了MetaLine的地方不用解決嗎報告委員Line不是屬於金管會這邊在上次規劃的範圍之內的好 所以簡單來講Google是你主管的\n376977\t402059\tGoogle也不是我們主管,只是在投信、投顧法安排一個法條文那你的回答要有邏輯啊,對不對?你講說,我問你Line,你說Line不是你主管然後我前面才誇獎你說Meta跟Google解決了那Meta跟Google也不是你主管的,為什麼他們兩個解決了?那是跨部會合作要求在投信、投顧法定一個反應\n402679\t421230\t所以簡單來講Meta跟Google的解決跟金管會無關是因為跨部會的關係解決所以現在LINE不解決就是跨部會也有問題所以它沒辦法解決因為這三個都不是金管會主管所以沒有辦法解決邏輯是這樣子嗎報告委員 這個我們會再繼續努力\n426854\t456354\t不是我剛問你的問題你哪一件事情不持續努力了我們現在要解決問題我們現在要行政單位不是要行政單位一天到晚給我制定這個規定規則ABC然後要老百姓去扶今天你在講說很多的問題前面講說我們要仲介的部分叫民眾不要受騙什麼東西你的職責不再叫民眾不要受騙了是不是你既然是在管你的組長的職務你就要負責好我們再看一下\n457756\t463145\t主委你說洗錢房子是你管吧對不對金融機構的洗錢房子\n466355\t486514\t妳上次的答案是講說合法機構的洗錢方式金融機構的洗錢方式妳今天更正也很好那我就請教一下主委高資產客戶的財富管理會不會變成一個這個洗錢的一個管道我說開放外營啦會不會變成一個洗錢的管道會還是不會\n488284\t494226\t這個推論 我覺得有問題 任何的議員都要說到我告訴你 我覺得沒問題耶 你知道為什麼我覺得沒問題過往啊 主委我覺得你應該比我熟啊過往是不是曾經就有過外營然後幫我們某一個政治人物的這個錢呢大筆大筆的洗 媒體上面也有講啊那個訊息你不知道\n512031\t528128\t我問你,你知不知道那個訊息啊?我剛剛前面提到,我沒有指人道姓的原因,是我不希望把這個模糊焦點,對不對?但那個訊息就是過往外營呢,讓這個洗錢的部分呢,幫政治人物洗錢,這件事情你知道嗎?\n528849\t549301\t我應該有聽說過但是現在你去對於這個高資產客戶的財富管理你怎麼避免類似的情形發生還是現在就有政治人物需要捲環潛逃透過洗錢的這個方式來做申請的時候就會去做審查\n550436\t570049\t申請的時候去審查什麼?申請開辦業務的時候就會做審查你是審查誰?審查申請要做高資產客戶財管業務的金融機構對 然後怎麼樣子你去審查他之後他就不會有洗錢的問題你這個邏輯是怎麼出來的?計畫中會列出他在洗錢房子的規劃跟執行\n572008\t583546\t對 那怎麼樣呢 你過往沒做嗎我剛前面講的那個案子你沒做嗎那你都有做 為什麼前面的案子發生了你現在做的跟前面那個案子發生的內容是什麼差異性咧\n584249\t612902\t那是後面執行或是違法的問題很好對不對主委你願意坦誠講我們才能解決問題執法的問題現在你這個高資產客戶的財務管理的部分你怎麼樣透過你的執法的部分確定他不會成為政治人物洗錢的管道我們金融機構都有跟法務部的洗錢犯罪防治中心如果有疑似的交易那你以前為什麼會發生呢你以前沒有跟法務部有聯絡\n614584\t636430\t那個個案我不太清楚 我只知道有這樣一個印象對 但是你現在你就要面對它嘛以前發生的就是給你一個教訓嘛 對不對你已經上了一課 你就要解決嘛這種用迴避的方式 我們會盡力 我們會努力謝謝委員指導 這個真的不必要啦下一個我要請教你就是說 主委 同樣的我們講虛擬資產監理的部分\n638931\t648319\t你現在是不做嘛但是我提醒你就說有這個Z世代的這個也就是說我們講說11歲到這個26歲的這個Z世代的部分他們對於虛擬資產的部分呢他的投資佔比是相當大的\n654904\t669639\t那這個東西你是打算怎麼樣子來保護我們這些年輕人還是說你的邏輯就是說我要提醒他他自己做的事情自己負責就這樣子還是說你現在是用什麼樣的態度因為71%的民眾認為他應該要強化你的這個監理你現在是認為不需要還是怎麼樣監管會態度是什麼\n679144\t701509\t我們是投資型虛擬資產的主管機關,九月份發布指導原則,年底VASP工會會成立,會遞資歷規範。主委,真的,你要這樣子念書,這樣背的話我們就沒什麼太大意思了。你知道X世代、Y世代、Z世代還是你不知道?我知道。你知道,好。那Z世代是幾歲啊?1995年以後出生的。\n702799\t729589\t沒關係啦,差一點點無所謂啦但是這些的人你跟他講說我們有什麼東西你要跟他談就解決問題嗎?上架、資產區隔、冷熱錢包這些都是我們在規劃中,酒吧原則中有規劃的那個主委你這樣講就沒意思了,為什麼?我們看到JPEG問題你解決了嗎?那個不是,那是offshore的,不是onshore的對啊,那offshore的你為什麼讓他在台灣能夠買賣呢?\n730836\t753433\t任何非法的東西都不是我們能完全禁止的,但是我們會廣為宣傳所以你的態度就是非法的部分你就沒事那你要老百姓自己去決定它是合法,決定是非法你只做大內宣說你們要自己注意我在最後一個問題請教,我就下台那個防疫險的部分,在保你有出面協調嗎?\n755190\t779389\t現階段我們不會介入那是商業上的契約那這個債保公司不賠的話對我們的業者有多大的衝擊會不會賠我不確定我不能回答假設性的問題假設性問題你不回答然後真正發生的問題你遺憾那這我們怎麼解決問題我不會說真正發生遺憾真正發生需要相關法律形式程序需要政府機關說明我們會說明\n781021\t799268\t那你不會覺得這個事情我們講說這個預防勝於治療你不認同報告委員商業企業我們處理的時間是很重要的所以民間的問題你不管就好我再請教你知道這個寵物保險現在剩兩家毛小孩怎麼辦\n801021\t821566\t因為他的損失率非常的高所以業者做不下去所以你就是不管政府的態度就是說即便你知道問題的發生然後這些民間要處理的事情民間自己處理那我們就乾脆無政府嘛如果是這樣子的一個態度的話我會認為乾脆就無政府這些錢滾下來以上謝謝謝謝你 生日快樂謝謝李委員的\n827096\t828923\t配合,謝謝,幼兒園生日快樂\n","txt":"主委好,你記得上禮拜我在質詢你的時候你告訴我的答案關於這個敵意併購的適格者的這個答案呢跟實情不符這個你知道嗎\n主委 當天你在這個回答之後我光是走到這個後面還沒出大門的時候所有的媒體朋友就跟我講\n你的答案是錯的OK但是呢還好啦你當天下午就更正了嘛你當天下午就更正了但我還是要鼓勵一下這個人誰無過對不對過而能改善莫大焉對不起\n我犯了這個大怒這個不應該講這個古文的這個出處的但是重點是在於知道錯了可以去改它我在這裡還是加冕但是我還是要鼓勵拜託那個主委啊這個我們的憲法規定了人民有知的權利讓人民知道事實的真相可以嗎\n我們不預估股價\n因為我們看到媒體的報導還有民間的憂慮你剛剛前面才答應我說你會讓老百姓知道事實的真相我沒有要你預估但是在民間就有顧慮說到底現在是一個作帳行情還是一個做夢的行情 主委怎麼看是作帳還是做夢政經的市場就是資訊介入民眾就是審慎選股 注意風險\n但是我們看到11月的營收它是公佈了11月的營收我們看起來營收並沒有大幅度的起色可是我們股價它是不跌然後反而竄升了所以民間才在想說到底這個年底的作帳是真的有這個作帳的行情還是單純的做夢這個是炒出來的\n這個您沒有觀察到這個現象還是是說有這個現象民間有這個顧慮但是你置之不理\n股價有些反應是國際跟國內的一些經濟金融情況的變化尤其我們是以半導體電子產業為主所以跟美國的這個費城半導體或NASDAQ連結是有一定的程度是因為國外國際的股市的影響有些產業不是所有所以要提醒民眾因為顯然11月的營收出來的各公司出來的情況都不太妙啦我第二個問題要請教的同樣\n我今天问的问题其实都牵涉到民众资的权利存网银的亏损是持续扩大今年六月份的部分我们看到亏损的数从2022年底再比较到今年的第三季的数字它是持续的扩大这个在五年之内它是可以损一两平\n現在目前的現狀是怎麼樣還是這些存網營的部分呢他會再繼續投入還是是我們的金管會到底做了什麼樣的一個措施今年都有至少有兩家以上辦理增資那我們不斷的跟他溝通他需要哪些業務的開放這是我們在做的那你有沒有全部公開然後讓全民知道因為我們在搜查這個資料的時候好累啊今天我們的報告就是已經公開了\n五年內損益兩平是可以達成的是不是很務實地可以達成我沒有這樣子預估我至少在過去才有會有說有一家有可能在五年之後會有損益兩平\n因為他開業時間不一樣所以其他的部分他是有你希望但是他沒有辦法達成就是了這是要大家努力的不是只有金融隊那你這個已經虧損這麼多的這個努力的這個金額就是說你欠錢欠一定的比例的錢然後你能不能達成他有一個就是說比較務實的一個評估的方式然後你的鼓勵措施是什麼這個可不可以公佈啊\n這就在今天的報告中沒有我就是沒看到才會問你嘛對不對我要的是很務實的而不是說我提到一句話今天的報告裡面就有我另外再提一個東西也是民眾非常非常關心的就是投資詐騙的主委這個投資詐騙的東西我可不是只告訴你一年兩年而已嘛對不對\n我這個以前很早的時候呢就已經提醒可是我們看到我們今天啊這個投資詐騙創新高啊然後解決的部分呢原來啊其實速發部講說是他們有建立跟因為這個唐部長呢跟這個\nMeta也好跟Google也好他們有溝通然後金管會也上了這個平台然後我們看到就是說你上了平台之後這個投資詐騙的廣告它是暴增的除了1.5萬件之後這個是表面上面的還不瓜括潛在的潛在的部分還有更多\n所以這個東西儘管會有沒有在我們提醒了一兩年之後究竟做了什麼樣的措施好那我們也知道主委你不會否認說現在民眾用的最多的是LINE嘛對不對是不是還是你否認這個用了多少我想LINE是其中之一吧多不多但是多少我沒有這個數據我沒有叫你問數據我說多不多嘛\n多是一個相對的概念你連多不多你都不肯承認它多不多那我就回到前面多很多 多很多 每個品牌都很多謝謝 多很多那我們解決了Google解決了MetaLine的地方不用解決嗎報告委員Line不是屬於金管會這邊在上次規劃的範圍之內的好 所以簡單來講Google是你主管的\nGoogle也不是我們主管,只是在投信、投顧法安排一個法條文那你的回答要有邏輯啊,對不對?你講說,我問你Line,你說Line不是你主管然後我前面才誇獎你說Meta跟Google解決了那Meta跟Google也不是你主管的,為什麼他們兩個解決了?那是跨部會合作要求在投信、投顧法定一個反應\n所以簡單來講Meta跟Google的解決跟金管會無關是因為跨部會的關係解決所以現在LINE不解決就是跨部會也有問題所以它沒辦法解決因為這三個都不是金管會主管所以沒有辦法解決邏輯是這樣子嗎報告委員 這個我們會再繼續努力\n不是我剛問你的問題你哪一件事情不持續努力了我們現在要解決問題我們現在要行政單位不是要行政單位一天到晚給我制定這個規定規則ABC然後要老百姓去扶今天你在講說很多的問題前面講說我們要仲介的部分叫民眾不要受騙什麼東西你的職責不再叫民眾不要受騙了是不是你既然是在管你的組長的職務你就要負責好我們再看一下\n主委你說洗錢房子是你管吧對不對金融機構的洗錢房子\n妳上次的答案是講說合法機構的洗錢方式金融機構的洗錢方式妳今天更正也很好那我就請教一下主委高資產客戶的財富管理會不會變成一個這個洗錢的一個管道我說開放外營啦會不會變成一個洗錢的管道會還是不會\n這個推論 我覺得有問題 任何的議員都要說到我告訴你 我覺得沒問題耶 你知道為什麼我覺得沒問題過往啊 主委我覺得你應該比我熟啊過往是不是曾經就有過外營然後幫我們某一個政治人物的這個錢呢大筆大筆的洗 媒體上面也有講啊那個訊息你不知道\n我問你,你知不知道那個訊息啊?我剛剛前面提到,我沒有指人道姓的原因,是我不希望把這個模糊焦點,對不對?但那個訊息就是過往外營呢,讓這個洗錢的部分呢,幫政治人物洗錢,這件事情你知道嗎?\n我應該有聽說過但是現在你去對於這個高資產客戶的財富管理你怎麼避免類似的情形發生還是現在就有政治人物需要捲環潛逃透過洗錢的這個方式來做申請的時候就會去做審查\n申請的時候去審查什麼?申請開辦業務的時候就會做審查你是審查誰?審查申請要做高資產客戶財管業務的金融機構對 然後怎麼樣子你去審查他之後他就不會有洗錢的問題你這個邏輯是怎麼出來的?計畫中會列出他在洗錢房子的規劃跟執行\n對 那怎麼樣呢 你過往沒做嗎我剛前面講的那個案子你沒做嗎那你都有做 為什麼前面的案子發生了你現在做的跟前面那個案子發生的內容是什麼差異性咧\n那是後面執行或是違法的問題很好對不對主委你願意坦誠講我們才能解決問題執法的問題現在你這個高資產客戶的財務管理的部分你怎麼樣透過你的執法的部分確定他不會成為政治人物洗錢的管道我們金融機構都有跟法務部的洗錢犯罪防治中心如果有疑似的交易那你以前為什麼會發生呢你以前沒有跟法務部有聯絡\n那個個案我不太清楚 我只知道有這樣一個印象對 但是你現在你就要面對它嘛以前發生的就是給你一個教訓嘛 對不對你已經上了一課 你就要解決嘛這種用迴避的方式 我們會盡力 我們會努力謝謝委員指導 這個真的不必要啦下一個我要請教你就是說 主委 同樣的我們講虛擬資產監理的部分\n你現在是不做嘛但是我提醒你就說有這個Z世代的這個也就是說我們講說11歲到這個26歲的這個Z世代的部分他們對於虛擬資產的部分呢他的投資佔比是相當大的\n那這個東西你是打算怎麼樣子來保護我們這些年輕人還是說你的邏輯就是說我要提醒他他自己做的事情自己負責就這樣子還是說你現在是用什麼樣的態度因為71%的民眾認為他應該要強化你的這個監理你現在是認為不需要還是怎麼樣監管會態度是什麼\n我們是投資型虛擬資產的主管機關,九月份發布指導原則,年底VASP工會會成立,會遞資歷規範。主委,真的,你要這樣子念書,這樣背的話我們就沒什麼太大意思了。你知道X世代、Y世代、Z世代還是你不知道?我知道。你知道,好。那Z世代是幾歲啊?1995年以後出生的。\n沒關係啦,差一點點無所謂啦但是這些的人你跟他講說我們有什麼東西你要跟他談就解決問題嗎?上架、資產區隔、冷熱錢包這些都是我們在規劃中,酒吧原則中有規劃的那個主委你這樣講就沒意思了,為什麼?我們看到JPEG問題你解決了嗎?那個不是,那是offshore的,不是onshore的對啊,那offshore的你為什麼讓他在台灣能夠買賣呢?\n任何非法的東西都不是我們能完全禁止的,但是我們會廣為宣傳所以你的態度就是非法的部分你就沒事那你要老百姓自己去決定它是合法,決定是非法你只做大內宣說你們要自己注意我在最後一個問題請教,我就下台那個防疫險的部分,在保你有出面協調嗎?\n現階段我們不會介入那是商業上的契約那這個債保公司不賠的話對我們的業者有多大的衝擊會不會賠我不確定我不能回答假設性的問題假設性問題你不回答然後真正發生的問題你遺憾那這我們怎麼解決問題我不會說真正發生遺憾真正發生需要相關法律形式程序需要政府機關說明我們會說明\n那你不會覺得這個事情我們講說這個預防勝於治療你不認同報告委員商業企業我們處理的時間是很重要的所以民間的問題你不管就好我再請教你知道這個寵物保險現在剩兩家毛小孩怎麼辦\n因為他的損失率非常的高所以業者做不下去所以你就是不管政府的態度就是說即便你知道問題的發生然後這些民間要處理的事情民間自己處理那我們就乾脆無政府嘛如果是這樣子的一個態度的話我會認為乾脆就無政府這些錢滾下來以上謝謝謝謝你 生日快樂謝謝李委員的\n配合,謝謝,幼兒園生日快樂\n","vtt":"WEBVTT\n\n00:00.929 --> 00:17.636\n主委好,你記得上禮拜我在質詢你的時候你告訴我的答案關於這個敵意併購的適格者的這個答案呢跟實情不符這個你知道嗎\n\n00:19.321 --> 00:22.964\n主委當天你在這個回答之後我光是走到這個後面還沒出大門的時候所有的媒體朋友就跟我講\n\n00:43.700 --> 00:59.274\n你的答案是錯的OK但是呢還好啦你當天下午就更正了嘛你當天下午就更正了但我還是要鼓勵一下這個人誰無過對不對過而能改善莫大焉對不起\n\n00:59.980 --> 01:21.573\n我犯了這個大怒這個不應該講這個古文的這個出處的但是重點是在於知道錯了可以去改它我在這裡還是加冕但是我還是要鼓勵拜託那個主委啊這個我們的憲法規定了人民有知的權利讓人民知道事實的真相可以嗎\n\n01:22.703 --> 01:22.903\n我們不預估股價\n\n01:39.055 --> 02:05.115\n因為我們看到媒體的報導還有民間的憂慮你剛剛前面才答應我說你會讓老百姓知道事實的真相我沒有要你預估但是在民間就有顧慮說到底現在是一個作帳行情還是一個做夢的行情主委怎麼看是作帳還是做夢政經的市場就是資訊介入民眾就是審慎選股注意風險\n\n02:06.202 --> 02:27.259\n但是我們看到11月的營收它是公佈了11月的營收我們看起來營收並沒有大幅度的起色可是我們股價它是不跌然後反而竄升了所以民間才在想說到底這個年底的作帳是真的有這個作帳的行情還是單純的做夢這個是炒出來的\n\n02:30.662 --> 02:36.559\n這個您沒有觀察到這個現象還是是說有這個現象民間有這個顧慮但是你置之不理\n\n02:37.981 --> 03:05.796\n股價有些反應是國際跟國內的一些經濟金融情況的變化尤其我們是以半導體電子產業為主所以跟美國的這個費城半導體或NASDAQ連結是有一定的程度是因為國外國際的股市的影響有些產業不是所有所以要提醒民眾因為顯然11月的營收出來的各公司出來的情況都不太妙啦我第二個問題要請教的同樣\n\n03:06.716 --> 03:29.035\n我今天问的问题其实都牵涉到民众资的权利存网银的亏损是持续扩大今年六月份的部分我们看到亏损的数从2022年底再比较到今年的第三季的数字它是持续的扩大这个在五年之内它是可以损一两平\n\n03:29.875 --> 03:56.488\n現在目前的現狀是怎麼樣還是這些存網營的部分呢他會再繼續投入還是是我們的金管會到底做了什麼樣的一個措施今年都有至少有兩家以上辦理增資那我們不斷的跟他溝通他需要哪些業務的開放這是我們在做的那你有沒有全部公開然後讓全民知道因為我們在搜查這個資料的時候好累啊今天我們的報告就是已經公開了\n\n03:57.506 --> 04:07.208\n五年內損益兩平是可以達成的是不是很務實地可以達成我沒有這樣子預估我至少在過去才有會有說有一家有可能在五年之後會有損益兩平\n\n04:08.235 --> 04:31.620\n因為他開業時間不一樣所以其他的部分他是有你希望但是他沒有辦法達成就是了這是要大家努力的不是只有金融隊那你這個已經虧損這麼多的這個努力的這個金額就是說你欠錢欠一定的比例的錢然後你能不能達成他有一個就是說比較務實的一個評估的方式然後你的鼓勵措施是什麼這個可不可以公佈啊\n\n04:31.900 --> 04:50.726\n這就在今天的報告中沒有我就是沒看到才會問你嘛對不對我要的是很務實的而不是說我提到一句話今天的報告裡面就有我另外再提一個東西也是民眾非常非常關心的就是投資詐騙的主委這個投資詐騙的東西我可不是只告訴你一年兩年而已嘛對不對\n\n04:51.526 --> 04:55.871\n我這個以前很早的時候呢就已經提醒可是我們看到我們今天啊這個投資詐騙創新高啊然後解決的部分呢原來啊其實速發部講說是他們有建立跟因為這個唐部長呢跟這個\n\n05:06.764 --> 05:15.667\nMeta也好跟Google也好他們有溝通然後金管會也上了這個平台然後我們看到就是說你上了平台之後這個投資詐騙的廣告它是暴增的除了1.5萬件之後這個是表面上面的還不瓜括潛在的潛在的部分還有更多\n\n05:28.112 --> 05:51.144\n所以這個東西儘管會有沒有在我們提醒了一兩年之後究竟做了什麼樣的措施好那我們也知道主委你不會否認說現在民眾用的最多的是LINE嘛對不對是不是還是你否認這個用了多少我想LINE是其中之一吧多不多但是多少我沒有這個數據我沒有叫你問數據我說多不多嘛\n\n05:51.874 --> 06:15.348\n多是一個相對的概念你連多不多你都不肯承認它多不多那我就回到前面多很多多很多每個品牌都很多謝謝多很多那我們解決了Google解決了MetaLine的地方不用解決嗎報告委員Line不是屬於金管會這邊在上次規劃的範圍之內的好所以簡單來講Google是你主管的\n\n06:16.977 --> 06:42.059\nGoogle也不是我們主管,只是在投信、投顧法安排一個法條文那你的回答要有邏輯啊,對不對?你講說,我問你Line,你說Line不是你主管然後我前面才誇獎你說Meta跟Google解決了那Meta跟Google也不是你主管的,為什麼他們兩個解決了?那是跨部會合作要求在投信、投顧法定一個反應\n\n06:42.679 --> 07:01.230\n所以簡單來講Meta跟Google的解決跟金管會無關是因為跨部會的關係解決所以現在LINE不解決就是跨部會也有問題所以它沒辦法解決因為這三個都不是金管會主管所以沒有辦法解決邏輯是這樣子嗎報告委員這個我們會再繼續努力\n\n07:06.854 --> 07:36.354\n不是我剛問你的問題你哪一件事情不持續努力了我們現在要解決問題我們現在要行政單位不是要行政單位一天到晚給我制定這個規定規則ABC然後要老百姓去扶今天你在講說很多的問題前面講說我們要仲介的部分叫民眾不要受騙什麼東西你的職責不再叫民眾不要受騙了是不是你既然是在管你的組長的職務你就要負責好我們再看一下\n\n07:37.756 --> 07:43.145\n主委你說洗錢房子是你管吧對不對金融機構的洗錢房子\n\n07:46.355 --> 08:06.514\n妳上次的答案是講說合法機構的洗錢方式金融機構的洗錢方式妳今天更正也很好那我就請教一下主委高資產客戶的財富管理會不會變成一個這個洗錢的一個管道我說開放外營啦會不會變成一個洗錢的管道會還是不會\n\n08:08.284 --> 08:14.226\n這個推論我覺得有問題任何的議員都要說到我告訴你我覺得沒問題耶你知道為什麼我覺得沒問題過往啊主委我覺得你應該比我熟啊過往是不是曾經就有過外營然後幫我們某一個政治人物的這個錢呢大筆大筆的洗媒體上面也有講啊那個訊息你不知道\n\n08:32.031 --> 08:48.128\n我問你,你知不知道那個訊息啊?我剛剛前面提到,我沒有指人道姓的原因,是我不希望把這個模糊焦點,對不對?但那個訊息就是過往外營呢,讓這個洗錢的部分呢,幫政治人物洗錢,這件事情你知道嗎?\n\n08:48.849 --> 09:09.301\n我應該有聽說過但是現在你去對於這個高資產客戶的財富管理你怎麼避免類似的情形發生還是現在就有政治人物需要捲環潛逃透過洗錢的這個方式來做申請的時候就會去做審查\n\n09:10.436 --> 09:30.049\n申請的時候去審查什麼?申請開辦業務的時候就會做審查你是審查誰?審查申請要做高資產客戶財管業務的金融機構對然後怎麼樣子你去審查他之後他就不會有洗錢的問題你這個邏輯是怎麼出來的?計畫中會列出他在洗錢房子的規劃跟執行\n\n09:32.008 --> 09:43.546\n對那怎麼樣呢你過往沒做嗎我剛前面講的那個案子你沒做嗎那你都有做為什麼前面的案子發生了你現在做的跟前面那個案子發生的內容是什麼差異性咧\n\n09:44.249 --> 10:12.902\n那是後面執行或是違法的問題很好對不對主委你願意坦誠講我們才能解決問題執法的問題現在你這個高資產客戶的財務管理的部分你怎麼樣透過你的執法的部分確定他不會成為政治人物洗錢的管道我們金融機構都有跟法務部的洗錢犯罪防治中心如果有疑似的交易那你以前為什麼會發生呢你以前沒有跟法務部有聯絡\n\n10:14.584 --> 10:36.430\n那個個案我不太清楚我只知道有這樣一個印象對但是你現在你就要面對它嘛以前發生的就是給你一個教訓嘛對不對你已經上了一課你就要解決嘛這種用迴避的方式我們會盡力我們會努力謝謝委員指導這個真的不必要啦下一個我要請教你就是說主委同樣的我們講虛擬資產監理的部分\n\n10:38.931 --> 10:48.319\n你現在是不做嘛但是我提醒你就說有這個Z世代的這個也就是說我們講說11歲到這個26歲的這個Z世代的部分他們對於虛擬資產的部分呢他的投資佔比是相當大的\n\n10:54.904 --> 11:09.639\n那這個東西你是打算怎麼樣子來保護我們這些年輕人還是說你的邏輯就是說我要提醒他他自己做的事情自己負責就這樣子還是說你現在是用什麼樣的態度因為71%的民眾認為他應該要強化你的這個監理你現在是認為不需要還是怎麼樣監管會態度是什麼\n\n11:19.144 --> 11:41.509\n我們是投資型虛擬資產的主管機關,九月份發布指導原則,年底VASP工會會成立,會遞資歷規範。主委,真的,你要這樣子念書,這樣背的話我們就沒什麼太大意思了。你知道X世代、Y世代、Z世代還是你不知道?我知道。你知道,好。那Z世代是幾歲啊?1995年以後出生的。\n\n11:42.799 --> 12:09.589\n沒關係啦,差一點點無所謂啦但是這些的人你跟他講說我們有什麼東西你要跟他談就解決問題嗎?上架、資產區隔、冷熱錢包這些都是我們在規劃中,酒吧原則中有規劃的那個主委你這樣講就沒意思了,為什麼?我們看到JPEG問題你解決了嗎?那個不是,那是offshore的,不是onshore的對啊,那offshore的你為什麼讓他在台灣能夠買賣呢?\n\n12:10.836 --> 12:33.433\n任何非法的東西都不是我們能完全禁止的,但是我們會廣為宣傳所以你的態度就是非法的部分你就沒事那你要老百姓自己去決定它是合法,決定是非法你只做大內宣說你們要自己注意我在最後一個問題請教,我就下台那個防疫險的部分,在保你有出面協調嗎?\n\n12:35.190 --> 12:59.389\n現階段我們不會介入那是商業上的契約那這個債保公司不賠的話對我們的業者有多大的衝擊會不會賠我不確定我不能回答假設性的問題假設性問題你不回答然後真正發生的問題你遺憾那這我們怎麼解決問題我不會說真正發生遺憾真正發生需要相關法律形式程序需要政府機關說明我們會說明\n\n13:01.021 --> 13:19.268\n那你不會覺得這個事情我們講說這個預防勝於治療你不認同報告委員商業企業我們處理的時間是很重要的所以民間的問題你不管就好我再請教你知道這個寵物保險現在剩兩家毛小孩怎麼辦\n\n13:21.021 --> 13:41.566\n因為他的損失率非常的高所以業者做不下去所以你就是不管政府的態度就是說即便你知道問題的發生然後這些民間要處理的事情民間自己處理那我們就乾脆無政府嘛如果是這樣子的一個態度的話我會認為乾脆就無政府這些錢滾下來以上謝謝謝謝你生日快樂謝謝李委員的\n\n13:47.096 --> 13:48.923\n配合,謝謝,幼兒園生日快樂\n\n","segments":[{"start":0.929,"end":17.636,"text":"主委好,你記得上禮拜我在質詢你的時候你告訴我的答案關於這個敵意併購的適格者的這個答案呢跟實情不符這個你知道嗎"},{"start":19.321,"end":22.964,"text":"主委 當天你在這個回答之後我光是走到這個後面還沒出大門的時候所有的媒體朋友就跟我講"},{"start":43.7,"end":59.274,"text":"你的答案是錯的OK但是呢還好啦你當天下午就更正了嘛你當天下午就更正了但我還是要鼓勵一下這個人誰無過對不對過而能改善莫大焉對不起"},{"start":59.98,"end":81.573,"text":"我犯了這個大怒這個不應該講這個古文的這個出處的但是重點是在於知道錯了可以去改它我在這裡還是加冕但是我還是要鼓勵拜託那個主委啊這個我們的憲法規定了人民有知的權利讓人民知道事實的真相可以嗎"},{"start":82.703,"end":82.903,"text":"我們不預估股價"},{"start":99.055,"end":125.115,"text":"因為我們看到媒體的報導還有民間的憂慮你剛剛前面才答應我說你會讓老百姓知道事實的真相我沒有要你預估但是在民間就有顧慮說到底現在是一個作帳行情還是一個做夢的行情 主委怎麼看是作帳還是做夢政經的市場就是資訊介入民眾就是審慎選股 注意風險"},{"start":126.202,"end":147.259,"text":"但是我們看到11月的營收它是公佈了11月的營收我們看起來營收並沒有大幅度的起色可是我們股價它是不跌然後反而竄升了所以民間才在想說到底這個年底的作帳是真的有這個作帳的行情還是單純的做夢這個是炒出來的"},{"start":150.662,"end":156.559,"text":"這個您沒有觀察到這個現象還是是說有這個現象民間有這個顧慮但是你置之不理"},{"start":157.981,"end":185.796,"text":"股價有些反應是國際跟國內的一些經濟金融情況的變化尤其我們是以半導體電子產業為主所以跟美國的這個費城半導體或NASDAQ連結是有一定的程度是因為國外國際的股市的影響有些產業不是所有所以要提醒民眾因為顯然11月的營收出來的各公司出來的情況都不太妙啦我第二個問題要請教的同樣"},{"start":186.716,"end":209.035,"text":"我今天问的问题其实都牵涉到民众资的权利存网银的亏损是持续扩大今年六月份的部分我们看到亏损的数从2022年底再比较到今年的第三季的数字它是持续的扩大这个在五年之内它是可以损一两平"},{"start":209.875,"end":236.488,"text":"現在目前的現狀是怎麼樣還是這些存網營的部分呢他會再繼續投入還是是我們的金管會到底做了什麼樣的一個措施今年都有至少有兩家以上辦理增資那我們不斷的跟他溝通他需要哪些業務的開放這是我們在做的那你有沒有全部公開然後讓全民知道因為我們在搜查這個資料的時候好累啊今天我們的報告就是已經公開了"},{"start":237.506,"end":247.208,"text":"五年內損益兩平是可以達成的是不是很務實地可以達成我沒有這樣子預估我至少在過去才有會有說有一家有可能在五年之後會有損益兩平"},{"start":248.235,"end":271.62,"text":"因為他開業時間不一樣所以其他的部分他是有你希望但是他沒有辦法達成就是了這是要大家努力的不是只有金融隊那你這個已經虧損這麼多的這個努力的這個金額就是說你欠錢欠一定的比例的錢然後你能不能達成他有一個就是說比較務實的一個評估的方式然後你的鼓勵措施是什麼這個可不可以公佈啊"},{"start":271.9,"end":290.726,"text":"這就在今天的報告中沒有我就是沒看到才會問你嘛對不對我要的是很務實的而不是說我提到一句話今天的報告裡面就有我另外再提一個東西也是民眾非常非常關心的就是投資詐騙的主委這個投資詐騙的東西我可不是只告訴你一年兩年而已嘛對不對"},{"start":291.526,"end":295.871,"text":"我這個以前很早的時候呢就已經提醒可是我們看到我們今天啊這個投資詐騙創新高啊然後解決的部分呢原來啊其實速發部講說是他們有建立跟因為這個唐部長呢跟這個"},{"start":306.764,"end":315.667,"text":"Meta也好跟Google也好他們有溝通然後金管會也上了這個平台然後我們看到就是說你上了平台之後這個投資詐騙的廣告它是暴增的除了1.5萬件之後這個是表面上面的還不瓜括潛在的潛在的部分還有更多"},{"start":328.112,"end":351.144,"text":"所以這個東西儘管會有沒有在我們提醒了一兩年之後究竟做了什麼樣的措施好那我們也知道主委你不會否認說現在民眾用的最多的是LINE嘛對不對是不是還是你否認這個用了多少我想LINE是其中之一吧多不多但是多少我沒有這個數據我沒有叫你問數據我說多不多嘛"},{"start":351.874,"end":375.348,"text":"多是一個相對的概念你連多不多你都不肯承認它多不多那我就回到前面多很多 多很多 每個品牌都很多謝謝 多很多那我們解決了Google解決了MetaLine的地方不用解決嗎報告委員Line不是屬於金管會這邊在上次規劃的範圍之內的好 所以簡單來講Google是你主管的"},{"start":376.977,"end":402.059,"text":"Google也不是我們主管,只是在投信、投顧法安排一個法條文那你的回答要有邏輯啊,對不對?你講說,我問你Line,你說Line不是你主管然後我前面才誇獎你說Meta跟Google解決了那Meta跟Google也不是你主管的,為什麼他們兩個解決了?那是跨部會合作要求在投信、投顧法定一個反應"},{"start":402.679,"end":421.23,"text":"所以簡單來講Meta跟Google的解決跟金管會無關是因為跨部會的關係解決所以現在LINE不解決就是跨部會也有問題所以它沒辦法解決因為這三個都不是金管會主管所以沒有辦法解決邏輯是這樣子嗎報告委員 這個我們會再繼續努力"},{"start":426.854,"end":456.354,"text":"不是我剛問你的問題你哪一件事情不持續努力了我們現在要解決問題我們現在要行政單位不是要行政單位一天到晚給我制定這個規定規則ABC然後要老百姓去扶今天你在講說很多的問題前面講說我們要仲介的部分叫民眾不要受騙什麼東西你的職責不再叫民眾不要受騙了是不是你既然是在管你的組長的職務你就要負責好我們再看一下"},{"start":457.756,"end":463.145,"text":"主委你說洗錢房子是你管吧對不對金融機構的洗錢房子"},{"start":466.355,"end":486.514,"text":"妳上次的答案是講說合法機構的洗錢方式金融機構的洗錢方式妳今天更正也很好那我就請教一下主委高資產客戶的財富管理會不會變成一個這個洗錢的一個管道我說開放外營啦會不會變成一個洗錢的管道會還是不會"},{"start":488.284,"end":494.226,"text":"這個推論 我覺得有問題 任何的議員都要說到我告訴你 我覺得沒問題耶 你知道為什麼我覺得沒問題過往啊 主委我覺得你應該比我熟啊過往是不是曾經就有過外營然後幫我們某一個政治人物的這個錢呢大筆大筆的洗 媒體上面也有講啊那個訊息你不知道"},{"start":512.031,"end":528.128,"text":"我問你,你知不知道那個訊息啊?我剛剛前面提到,我沒有指人道姓的原因,是我不希望把這個模糊焦點,對不對?但那個訊息就是過往外營呢,讓這個洗錢的部分呢,幫政治人物洗錢,這件事情你知道嗎?"},{"start":528.849,"end":549.301,"text":"我應該有聽說過但是現在你去對於這個高資產客戶的財富管理你怎麼避免類似的情形發生還是現在就有政治人物需要捲環潛逃透過洗錢的這個方式來做申請的時候就會去做審查"},{"start":550.436,"end":570.049,"text":"申請的時候去審查什麼?申請開辦業務的時候就會做審查你是審查誰?審查申請要做高資產客戶財管業務的金融機構對 然後怎麼樣子你去審查他之後他就不會有洗錢的問題你這個邏輯是怎麼出來的?計畫中會列出他在洗錢房子的規劃跟執行"},{"start":572.008,"end":583.546,"text":"對 那怎麼樣呢 你過往沒做嗎我剛前面講的那個案子你沒做嗎那你都有做 為什麼前面的案子發生了你現在做的跟前面那個案子發生的內容是什麼差異性咧"},{"start":584.249,"end":612.902,"text":"那是後面執行或是違法的問題很好對不對主委你願意坦誠講我們才能解決問題執法的問題現在你這個高資產客戶的財務管理的部分你怎麼樣透過你的執法的部分確定他不會成為政治人物洗錢的管道我們金融機構都有跟法務部的洗錢犯罪防治中心如果有疑似的交易那你以前為什麼會發生呢你以前沒有跟法務部有聯絡"},{"start":614.584,"end":636.43,"text":"那個個案我不太清楚 我只知道有這樣一個印象對 但是你現在你就要面對它嘛以前發生的就是給你一個教訓嘛 對不對你已經上了一課 你就要解決嘛這種用迴避的方式 我們會盡力 我們會努力謝謝委員指導 這個真的不必要啦下一個我要請教你就是說 主委 同樣的我們講虛擬資產監理的部分"},{"start":638.931,"end":648.319,"text":"你現在是不做嘛但是我提醒你就說有這個Z世代的這個也就是說我們講說11歲到這個26歲的這個Z世代的部分他們對於虛擬資產的部分呢他的投資佔比是相當大的"},{"start":654.904,"end":669.639,"text":"那這個東西你是打算怎麼樣子來保護我們這些年輕人還是說你的邏輯就是說我要提醒他他自己做的事情自己負責就這樣子還是說你現在是用什麼樣的態度因為71%的民眾認為他應該要強化你的這個監理你現在是認為不需要還是怎麼樣監管會態度是什麼"},{"start":679.144,"end":701.509,"text":"我們是投資型虛擬資產的主管機關,九月份發布指導原則,年底VASP工會會成立,會遞資歷規範。主委,真的,你要這樣子念書,這樣背的話我們就沒什麼太大意思了。你知道X世代、Y世代、Z世代還是你不知道?我知道。你知道,好。那Z世代是幾歲啊?1995年以後出生的。"},{"start":702.799,"end":729.589,"text":"沒關係啦,差一點點無所謂啦但是這些的人你跟他講說我們有什麼東西你要跟他談就解決問題嗎?上架、資產區隔、冷熱錢包這些都是我們在規劃中,酒吧原則中有規劃的那個主委你這樣講就沒意思了,為什麼?我們看到JPEG問題你解決了嗎?那個不是,那是offshore的,不是onshore的對啊,那offshore的你為什麼讓他在台灣能夠買賣呢?"},{"start":730.836,"end":753.433,"text":"任何非法的東西都不是我們能完全禁止的,但是我們會廣為宣傳所以你的態度就是非法的部分你就沒事那你要老百姓自己去決定它是合法,決定是非法你只做大內宣說你們要自己注意我在最後一個問題請教,我就下台那個防疫險的部分,在保你有出面協調嗎?"},{"start":755.19,"end":779.389,"text":"現階段我們不會介入那是商業上的契約那這個債保公司不賠的話對我們的業者有多大的衝擊會不會賠我不確定我不能回答假設性的問題假設性問題你不回答然後真正發生的問題你遺憾那這我們怎麼解決問題我不會說真正發生遺憾真正發生需要相關法律形式程序需要政府機關說明我們會說明"},{"start":781.021,"end":799.268,"text":"那你不會覺得這個事情我們講說這個預防勝於治療你不認同報告委員商業企業我們處理的時間是很重要的所以民間的問題你不管就好我再請教你知道這個寵物保險現在剩兩家毛小孩怎麼辦"},{"start":801.021,"end":821.566,"text":"因為他的損失率非常的高所以業者做不下去所以你就是不管政府的態度就是說即便你知道問題的發生然後這些民間要處理的事情民間自己處理那我們就乾脆無政府嘛如果是這樣子的一個態度的話我會認為乾脆就無政府這些錢滾下來以上謝謝謝謝你 生日快樂謝謝李委員的"},{"start":827.096,"end":828.923,"text":"配合,謝謝,幼兒園生日快樂"}]}}}}