{"id":148953,"url":"https://ivod.ly.gov.tw/Play/Clip/1M/148953","video_url":"https://ivod-lyvod.cdn.hinet.net/vod_1/_definst_/mp4:1MClips/a0ee4ec253a72029505e1f8bda1419c6bdc0b11ed89c5ff9c986728e607a03223d00db2279bb929c5ea18f28b6918d91.mp4/playlist.m3u8","委員名稱":"郭國文","委員發言時間":"10:17:52 - 10:29:31","影片長度":"00:11:39","會議時間":"2023-12-11T09:00:00+08:00","會議名稱":"立法院第10屆第8會期財政委員會第20次全體委員會議（事由：一、邀請金融監督管理委員會黃主任委員天牧就（一）「開放銀行」（Open Banking）政策之回顧與展望（二）純網銀、純網保之發展與挑戰進行專題報告，並備質詢。\n二、審查本院民進黨黨團擬具「中央政府總預算案審查程序第三條條文修正草案」案。\n【12月11日及13日二天一次會】）","meet":{"tmpMeeting":null,"title":"第10屆第8會期財政委員會第20次全體委員會議","term":10,"type":"委員會","sessionPeriod":8,"sessionTimes":20,"committees":[20],"id":"委員會-10-8-20-20"},"date":"2023-12-11","duration":699,"end_time":"2023-12-11T10:29:31+08:00","start_time":"2023-12-11T10:17:52+08:00","features":["gazette"],"type":"Clip","gazette":{"lineno":433,"blocks":[["郭委員國文：（10時17分）謝謝主席，有請黃主委。"],["主席：請黃主委上台備詢。"],["黃主任委員天牧：是，委員早。"],["郭委員國文：主委好，關於開放銀行的第一階段、第二階段都已經上路了，現在好像進入深水區，也就是交易面資訊的部分，把開放銀行的政策落實是具有相當大的挑戰性階段，我個人認為這是在第三個部分。我看到第一個部分有27家銀行跟6家第三方的TSP合作，第二階段有17家跟2家TSP合作，可是主委，到了第三階段的時候，TSP的家數會不會越來越少？第三階段會不會沒有啊？"],["黃主任委員天牧：我們預期，因為其要求的標準更高，包括剛才沈召委提到資安上面要特別注意，我想應該不會像以前那麼多。"],["郭委員國文：對啊！現在已經6家、2家，那以後會不會更少？標準越來越高嘛！"],["黃主任委員天牧：對。"],["郭委員國文：門檻會越來越高嘛！"],["黃主任委員天牧：是。"],["郭委員國文：因為開放銀行這樣處理下去，我覺得最關鍵的、讓外界最擔憂的還是在於整個資安風險的應對。第二個部分，主管機關到底有沒有可能頒布一些指引規範？第三個部分是TSP分級制度，我覺得這三個部分是這樣子。","我個人在看金融科技，往往過去的操作模式都是把它當成一個體制外的沙盒模式處理，當我們付出一些社會成本之後再進行修正，這是我觀察到的第一個現象。第二個我觀察到的現象就是，主委你會把這些金融科技當成鯰魚來刺激傳統銀行，要求他們做金融科技的一些精進跟改善，結果老實講，這些創新業者的命運其實就是鯰魚而已啊！事實上他們也沒有辦法形成真正的創新業者，結果就成為你提升、改變傳統銀行業者的體質，就我覺得，主委是不是有這種可能性？先回答前面再來說後面。"],["黃主任委員天牧：其實從金融聯合總會發布的金融科技創新報告來講，過去這幾年金融業者跟科技業者合作的比率趨勢是大的，的確是這樣的趨勢。"],["郭委員國文：整體而言是有注意的啦！"],["黃主任委員天牧：是。"],["郭委員國文：我同意啦！只是多數人在他們人生選擇中可能離開了原來傳統的金融機構，投入所謂的金融創新，結果他們發現在制度沒有完整時，半路就死在沙灘上了，但是改變了整個體質，自己變成一個成就傳統業者的養分，這是我個人的觀察。這不是重點啦！重點是我要請你回答剛剛那個部分。","簡單的講，關於TSP，整體而言現在的方式對資安風險的應對怎麼處理？因為它將來掌握了很多訊息啊！所有的訊息中，由整個第三方來做統籌、分享，這裡頭的資安問題怎麼處理？我在想，這個第三方真的有資歷、有辦法去應對資訊風險的管控嗎？更何況銀行端都還要設立所謂的資安長，這個第三方有辦法這樣做嗎？"],["黃主任委員天牧：其實您垂詢的邏輯跟剛剛沈召委垂詢的邏輯是相同的，就是覺得這三方的關係必須要拉平，才能讓民眾有信心。"],["郭委員國文：對。"],["黃主任委員天牧：我也特別要跟您報告我個人的想法，Open Banking其實是來自於一些歐美國家，那些國家的銀行競爭強度不像臺灣那麼強，所以他們 Open Banking 有很大的市場在；臺灣本身的銀行競爭就已經相對激烈了，所以民眾對於Open Banking，尤其第三階段的發展是不是跟其他國家一樣，這個我們要再觀察，可是制度上我們還是會繼續規劃下去。幾位委員對我們的垂詢指導，我們會立刻調整。"],["郭委員國文：對，參與其中的這些TSP業者當中，也有一些傳統金融機構介入、參與，對不對？"],["黃主任委員天牧：周邊吧！然後像一些電信業者……"],["郭委員國文：對，電信業者，我手頭上這邊就有遠雄嘛……"],["黃主任委員天牧：遠傳。"],["郭委員國文：等等都有參加嘛！也有一些壽險公司……"],["黃主任委員天牧：第一階段比較多……"],["郭委員國文：國泰人壽也有嘛！"],["黃主任委員天牧：有些記帳公司……"],["郭委員國文：對，這些都有啊！但將來會不會演變成部分的金融機構參與，另外一個部分沒有，會形成一個不公平的競業現象？"],["黃主任委員天牧：目前應該不會，因為目前開放銀行第三方的制度還沒有規劃完，所以剛剛有委員垂詢什麼時候會開始，我想我們規劃完之後，包括剛剛委員您垂詢的一些事情，我們在檢討的時候會再看看整個規範是不是符合委員的期待。"],["郭委員國文：所以一部分是我們在進行第三階段交易面資訊的審議階段，另外一部分也在考慮如何把它建立一個規範，至於我剛剛提到資安的部分，頒發指引規範還有分級都可能在討論當中嗎？"],["黃主任委員天牧：有，尤其今天經過這樣的一個專案報告，我們得到委員很多的高見跟指導，我們回去會立刻再討論一下，看現在我們報來的東西是不是合乎委員的期待。"],["郭委員國文：你們約莫多久的時間會把這個討論做出一個初步的成果……"],["黃主任委員天牧：跟委員報告，我們原來在報告中規劃是年底，我們看儘量是不是照委員的期待在年底前，但是也符合委員對於內容上的要求。"],["郭委員國文：好，這部分變成您納管的業務好像又越來越多了，所以我再追問你一個問題，我在總質詢時問了陳建仁院長，但對你個人是不好意思，我是說有沒有可能另外把貴單位的整個組織編制多增加一個金融科技局，後來院長有沒有跟你們進行討論？"],["黃主任委員天牧：行政院有交代我們去做研究，我們也在研究中。"],["郭委員國文：研究中？那你們多久要陳報行政院？"],["黃主任委員天牧：初步意見是在現況中，我們現在還能夠接受新的業務，還能夠在行政院同意增員的額度之內做調適。"],["郭委員國文：你們要未雨綢繆啊！我都已經在幫你們講話了，你還這麼客氣！"],["黃主任委員天牧：未雨綢繆可能就要看，如果大的調整包括增加局處的話，可能要做更完整的規劃，我們正在做細部的，這還牽涉到……"],["郭委員國文：細部規劃約莫要多久？其實大家除了擔心你們管理嚴格之外，還擔心金管會的負擔過重……"],["黃主任委員天牧：這除了負擔之外，還需要看看針對這樣業務的新增，設置一些固定局處，對未來金融業發展的助益是什麼。"],["郭委員國文：而且對於社會現象產生出來的問題能夠予以遏止。"],["黃主任委員天牧：對，能不能都能夠解決這些問題……"],["郭委員國文：真的，這些問題現在是層出不窮……"],["黃主任委員天牧：包括科技這些東西，金融發展……"],["郭委員國文：大家對金管會的期待又很高，所以你們的業務一定越來越重，我是建議你們這個部分內部規劃要提早進行，向上陳報，好不好？"],["黃主任委員天牧：好，瞭解。"],["郭委員國文：另外有關於純網銀部分，我看起來是有一家不符合規定，就是福爾摩莎產物保險不符合規定……"],["黃主任委員天牧：純網保。"],["郭委員國文：對。另外一家中信網路產業保險，基本上已經宣布退場，這是金管會2022年時開放純網保的唯二兩家，之所以唯二兩家，是當初你們的管理辦法第二十九條之一，關於壽險的部分，保障型商品的限制非常少，另外產險部分，創新型的定義又不清楚，現在你們又對外宣布明年1月份要開放申請純網保，明年1月開放，會不會純網保變純「亡」保，就是game over，都沒有業者了？"],["黃主任委員天牧：我們不太確定，因為重點是市場上要提供類似這種跟異業合作的商品，事實上我們在今年10月已經大幅放寬保險業電子商務跟異業合作的一些注意事項……"],["郭委員國文：那些商品規範，已經突破第二十九條之一了嗎？"],["黃主任委員天牧：對，我們有大幅突破，會後我們會提供給委員參考，現在已經有業者跟異業在做合作規劃了。"],["郭委員國文：所以說純網保的可能性還會持續進行嗎？"],["黃主任委員天牧：還會。"],["郭委員國文：好。另外，有關人頭戶限制的部分，您提到明年會上路，上路的部分就是會進行所謂的管制行為，假設被宣布為人頭帳戶，那麼他一天只能提領1萬元。現在問題來了，有些人頭帳戶本來也是受害者，一不小心就成了人頭帳戶，這種人會不會變成二度受害者？"],["黃主任委員天牧：這個部分謝謝委員垂詢，我記得有一些例外，就是如果他以薪資為主的話，有一個帳戶可以讓他用，這個我請局長跟委員說明。"],["莊局長琇媛：報告委員，這個是所謂的告誡戶，告誡戶是警察機關在開的……"],["郭委員國文：所以告誡戶的認定權在警察……"],["莊局長琇媛：對。"],["郭委員國文：你們就看警察提供了誰，你們就負責執行？"],["莊局長琇媛：是。"],["郭委員國文：那有沒有連坐處罰？他明明只有一個帳戶被用了，那其他帳戶會不會也這樣處理？"],["莊局長琇媛：因為按照告誡戶的辦法，是以人名，就是ID控管，所以只要是那個ID的話，在銀行的所有帳戶都會……"],["郭委員國文：全部？"],["莊局長琇媛：對。"],["郭委員國文：那將來他還有機會透過TSP方式來進行交易嗎？"],["莊局長琇媛：如果以這樣來看的話，因為他的帳戶還是控管，所以銀行在系統上會把那個帳戶做控管。"],["郭委員國文：所有可能性都沒有了？"],["莊局長琇媛：對、對。"],["郭委員國文：好，謝謝局長。最後我再問有關灰名單的部分，這其實也是局長的業務。灰名單其實就是把這個加碼研議出所謂殭屍帳戶的管控，我認為這是一個不錯的作法，防患於未然，但目前的問題點是灰名單的業者只有9家銀行加入，4家公股、4家民營，加上一個郵局，主委、局長，這會不會太少？"],["莊局長琇媛：報告委員……"],["郭委員國文：38家耶，總共，約定帳戶的部分啊！"],["莊局長琇媛：上次在委員指導之下，我們已經要求灰名單的部分會在第一季全部都要上路，剛剛委員說的那個是明年1月，到第一季是全部都要上路。"],["郭委員國文：明年1月全部都要上路？"],["莊局長琇媛：對。"],["郭委員國文：明年1月全部上路，好，謝謝你，謝謝主委。"],["黃主任委員天牧：謝謝委員。"],["主席：接下來請費鴻泰費委員上台質詢，在費鴻泰委員質詢結束之後，我們休息5分鐘。好，請費委員上台質詢。"]],"agenda":{"page_end":342,"meet_id":"委員會-10-8-20-20","speakers":["沈發惠","林德福","吳秉叡","賴士葆","李貴敏","郭國文","費鴻泰","鍾佳濱","高嘉瑜","陳椒華","林楚茵","羅明才"],"page_start":293,"meetingDate":["2023-12-11"],"gazette_id":"1130201","agenda_lcidc_ids":["1130201_00005"],"meet_name":"立法院第10屆第8會期財政委員會第20次全體委員會議紀錄","content":"一、邀請金融監督管理委員會黃主任委員天牧就（一）「開放銀行」（Open Banking）政策之回\n顧與展望、（二）純網銀、純網保之發展與挑戰進行專題報告，並備質詢； 二、審查本院民進\n黨黨團擬具「中央政府總預算案審查程序第三條條文修正草案」案","agenda_id":"1130201_00004"}},"transcript":{"id":"148953","pyannote":{"name":"ronny","tool":"pyannote","data":{"url":"https://ivod.ly.gov.tw/Play/Clip/1M/148953","tool":"pyannote","id":"148953-pyannote"},"job_id":"SnKcqeEipYEDH8VN","queued_at":"2025-10-22 14:59:01","status":"done","log":[{"time":"2025-10-22 15:00:43","msg":"downloading https://ivod.ly.gov.tw/Play/Clip/1M/148953","target":null},{"time":"2025-10-22 15:00:44","msg":"download ivod and merge to wav","target":"/home/conda/test/whisper-api-data/tmp/lyivod-Clip-148953.wav"},{"time":"2025-10-22 15:01:00","msg":"running pyannote","target":null},{"time":"2025-10-22 15:01:12","msg":"status: 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\"zh\"}","srt":"1\n00:00:00,409 --> 00:00:07,812\n我想開放銀行這個部分第一階段第二階段都已經上路了現在好像進入那個深水區就是交易面的這個資訊的部分\n\n2\n00:00:18,362 --> 00:00:36,473\n那把這個開放銀行的這個政策落實具有相當大的挑戰性的階段我個人認為就是在第三個部分我看到第一個部分有27家銀行跟6家第三方的TSB合作那第二階段有17家跟2家的TSB合作\n\n3\n00:00:37,313 --> 00:00:51,509\n可是主委到第三階段的時候那個TSB的加速會不會越來越少第三階段會不會沒有啊我們預期因為他要求的標準更高包括剛才沈昭惠也提到資安上面要特別注意我想應該不會像以前那麼多\n\n4\n00:00:52,751 --> 00:01:16,068\n對啊現在已經六家兩家那以後會不會更少標準越來越高門檻會越來越高門檻會越來越高那因為這一個開放銀行這樣子處理下去我覺得最關鍵的會讓外界最擔憂的部分還是在於這個整個資安風險的一個應對第二個的部分呢那個主管機關呢\n\n5\n00:01:16,929 --> 00:01:46,190\n到底有沒有可能頒布一些指引規範第三個部分呢是TSB的分級的制度我覺得這三個部分這樣子那我個人在看這個金融科技的部分往往過去我們的操作模式都把它當成一個體制化的體制外的沙盒的模式處理當我們付出一些社會成本之後我們再進行修正這是第一個我觀察到的現象第二個我觀察到的現象呢就是\n\n6\n00:01:46,690 --> 00:02:15,283\n主委你會把這些金融科技當成那個鯰魚來刺激這個傳統的銀行要求他們做金融科技的一些精進跟改善結果這些創新業者其實老實講他的命運就是鯰魚而已事實上他也沒有辦法形成真正的創新業者結果就成為你提升改變這些傳統銀行業者的一個體質我覺得主委是不是有這種可能性先回答前面再來說後面\n\n7\n00:02:19,418 --> 00:02:31,697\n其實從金融總會發布的一個金融科技創新報告來講過去這幾年金融業者跟科技業者合作的比率趨勢是大的是的確是這樣一個趨勢\n\n8\n00:02:33,979 --> 00:02:57,240\n整體而言是有注意的啦我同意啦只是多數的人在他們人生的那個選擇當中他們可能離開了原來的傳統的這個金融機構投入了所謂的創新金融創新結果後來發現在整個制度沒有完整的時候他們半路就死在沙灘上了啦但是改變了整個體質變成自己成為一個成就傳統業者的一個養分\n\n9\n00:02:59,242 --> 00:03:15,644\n這是我個人的觀察這不是重點啦重點我要請你回答是剛剛那個部分啦簡單來講TSB的部分你現在的方式整體而言呢資安風險的這個應對怎麼處理因為他將來掌握了很多訊息啊所有訊息當中在整個第三方的時候來做一個\n\n10\n00:03:16,304 --> 00:03:19,347\n統籌來分享這裡頭的治安問題怎麼處理我在想說這個第三方真的有資歷真的有辦法去應對這個風險的管控嗎資訊風險的管控嗎更何況銀行端都還要設立這個所謂的這個這個治安長\n\n11\n00:03:34,160 --> 00:03:51,355\n這個第三方有辦法這樣做嗎其實您垂詢的邏輯跟剛剛沈釗偉垂詢邏輯是相同的就是覺得這兩者之間這三方的關係必須要拉平才能讓民眾有信心那我也特別要跟您報告我個人的想法OpenBanking其實是來自於一些歐美國家\n\n12\n00:03:51,855 --> 00:04:16,084\n那些國家的銀行競爭的強度不像台灣那麼強所以它OpenBanking有很大的市場在那台灣的本身銀行競爭就已經相對的激烈了所以民眾對於OpenBanking第三階段的發展是不是跟其他國家一樣這個我們要再觀察可是制度上我們還是會繼續規劃下去那幾位委員對我們的垂尋指導我們會立刻來去調整\n\n13\n00:04:17,384 --> 00:04:24,214\n對那在參與其中的這些這個TSB的業者當中也有一些傳統的金融機構介入嘛對不對參與嘛\n\n14\n00:04:26,669 --> 00:04:53,920\n周邊吧然後像一些電信業者對電信業者我手頭上這邊就有遠雄嘛遠傳等等嘛都有參加嘛那也有一些受選公司嘛第一階段比較多有些記帳公司啊對啊對這些都有啊就是說但是將來會不會演變成說呢有部分的金融機構他有這樣的參與另外一個部分沒有會形成一個不公平的經業現象\n\n15\n00:04:55,796 --> 00:05:22,445\n目前應該不會因為我想第三方這個開放銀行第三方目前制度還沒有規劃完所以剛剛有委員槌尋什麼時候會開始我想我們規劃完之後那如果包括剛剛委員您槌尋的一些事情我們要再檢討的時候我們會再看看整個規範是不是符合委員的期待所以說一部分我們在進行第三階段的一個交易面的諮詢的一個審議的階段那另外一部分的話我們也在考慮說要如何把它建立一個規範\n\n16\n00:05:23,565 --> 00:05:41,828\n所以我剛剛提的所謂治安的部分,頒發指引規範的部分,還有分歧的部分,都可能在討論當中嗎?有,我想今天經過這樣一個專案報告,我們得到委員的很多高見跟指導,我們會回去立刻再討論一下,現在業者我們報來的東西,是不是合乎委員的期待?\n\n17\n00:05:42,861 --> 00:05:57,106\n約莫裡面大概會多久的時間會把這個討論做一個初步的成果我們原來在報告中規劃跟委員報告是年底我們看盡量是不是照委員的期待年底前但是也符合委員對於內容上的要求\n\n18\n00:05:57,588 --> 00:06:22,366\n好那如果這個部分變靈納管的業務好像又越來越多了所以說我再追問你一個問題我在總質詢的時候那時候我就問陳建仁那個陳院長但是你個人是不好意思啦我是說有沒有可能把這個另外把貴單位的整個組織變資多增加一個金融科技局後來那個院長有沒有跟你們進行討論\n\n19\n00:06:24,521 --> 00:06:47,646\n行政院這邊有交代我們去做研究那我想我們也在研究中研究中那你多久的時候要呈報行政院?初步的意見是在現況中我們還能夠現在接受的新的業務還能夠在行政院同意增援的額度之內去做調適本市已經幫你講話了你還這麼客氣\n\n20\n00:06:50,947 --> 00:07:10,136\n未籌謀可能就要看如果大的調整包括增加局處的話可能要做更完整的規劃我們正在做細部的這個還要牽涉到這細部的規劃約莫多久其實大家其實都擔心那個金管會的負擔過重不是除了擔心你們這個管理嚴格之外\n\n21\n00:07:11,116 --> 00:07:37,384\n這除了負擔之外還需要看看這樣業務的新增設置一些固定的局處對未來的發展的對業者金融業的發展而且對社會現象產生出來我們都能夠去解決這些問題包括科技這些東西對金管會的期待又很高所以你的業務一定會越來越重我是建議你這個部分的這一個內部的這個規劃要提早進行向上呈報好不好\n\n22\n00:07:39,845 --> 00:08:03,289\n另外一個部分呢,有關於這個存網營的部分我看起來,有一家不符合規定,不符合摩擦產物保險不符合規定那另外一個中信呢,這個網路產業保險,產保呢基本上他們已經宣布退場這個都是在金管會2022年的時候開放存保以後,為二兩家\n\n23\n00:08:06,830 --> 00:08:32,622\n之所以為二兩家呢是你們當初的這個管理辦法當中的29條之一關於這個受險的部分保障型的商品限制非常的少那另外一部分呢這個產險的部分以創新型的定義又不清楚啦所以說你們又對外宣布說明年的時候一月份的時候要開放申請純網保明年一月開放會不會純網保變純網保\n\n24\n00:08:35,782 --> 00:08:54,947\n就是就GAMEOVER了就不會了都沒有業者我們不太確定因為重點是市場上要提供類似這種跟異業合作的一些商品那事實上我們在今年10月已經大幅放寬保險業電子商務跟異業合作的一些注意事項也就是突破29條之一了嗎\n\n25\n00:08:57,190 --> 00:09:04,747\n那些商品規範對我們也有大幅突破會會我們會提供您參考所以現在已經有業者跟異業在做合作的規劃了\n\n26\n00:09:06,149 --> 00:09:30,489\n所以說存款網保的可能性還會持續進行嗎還會那另外一個部分有關於人頭戶限制的部分您提到說這個明年會上路啦但是上路的部分會進行所謂的管制行為如果假設它是被規範宣布為人頭帳戶的話那麼它一天只能提領一萬元\n\n27\n00:09:31,149 --> 00:09:47,325\n那現在問題來了有些人頭賬戶他本來是受害者他一不小心會成了人頭賬戶這種人會不會變成惡毒受害者這個部分謝謝委員吹醒我記得有一些例外就是如果他以薪資為主的話他是有一個可以讓他用\n\n28\n00:09:50,392 --> 00:10:18,340\n因為這個是所謂告戒戶那告戒戶是警察機關在開的啦所以告戒戶認定權就是警察你們就看警察提供了誰你們就做你們就負責執行你們就負責執行那有沒有連做處罰他明明是一個帳戶被用了他其他帳戶也會不會這樣處理因為按照這個告戒戶的辦法的話他是以人名就是那個ID控管所以只要是那個ID的話他在銀行的所有的帳戶都會收到這些\n\n29\n00:10:19,940 --> 00:10:40,448\n那將來他還有機會透過DSB的方式來進行交易嗎這個如果以這樣子來看的話因為他還是帳戶的控管所以銀行在系統上面會把那個帳戶做控管所有的可能性都沒有了好那謝謝局長那最後問一下那個\n\n30\n00:10:41,608 --> 00:11:03,469\n其實也是局長的業務就是揮名單的部分揮名單的部分其實就是把這個加碼研議出所謂的殭屍賬戶的一個管控我認為這個是一個不錯的做法這反患於未然但是目前問題點是這個揮名單的參加的業者只有九家銀行加入四家公股四家民營加一個郵局主委局長這會不會太少\n\n31\n00:11:05,061 --> 00:11:26,848\n報委員三十八家總共上次在委員知道月底賬戶的部分啊對我們已經要求就是那個會名單的部分的話會在第一季全部都要上路那剛剛您說的那個是今年明年一月那到了第一季是全部都要上路全部都要上路明年一月全部上路好謝謝你喔好謝謝主委謝謝委員謝謝\n\n32\n00:11:30,165 --> 00:11:38,020\n好那個我們接下來請費鴻泰委員上台質詢那在費鴻泰委員質詢結束之後我們休息五分鐘好請費委員上台質詢\n\n","tsv":"start\tend\ttext\n409\t7812\t我想開放銀行這個部分第一階段第二階段都已經上路了現在好像進入那個深水區就是交易面的這個資訊的部分\n18362\t36473\t那把這個開放銀行的這個政策落實具有相當大的挑戰性的階段我個人認為就是在第三個部分我看到第一個部分有27家銀行跟6家第三方的TSB合作那第二階段有17家跟2家的TSB合作\n37313\t51509\t可是主委到第三階段的時候那個TSB的加速會不會越來越少第三階段會不會沒有啊我們預期因為他要求的標準更高包括剛才沈昭惠也提到資安上面要特別注意我想應該不會像以前那麼多\n52751\t76068\t對啊 現在已經六家兩家那以後會不會更少標準越來越高門檻會越來越高門檻會越來越高那因為這一個開放銀行這樣子處理下去我覺得最關鍵的會讓外界最擔憂的部分還是在於這個整個資安風險的一個應對第二個的部分呢那個主管機關呢\n76929\t106190\t到底有沒有可能頒布一些指引規範第三個部分呢是TSB的分級的制度我覺得這三個部分這樣子那我個人在看這個金融科技的部分往往過去我們的操作模式都把它當成一個體制化的體制外的沙盒的模式處理當我們付出一些社會成本之後我們再進行修正這是第一個我觀察到的現象第二個我觀察到的現象呢就是\n106690\t135283\t主委你會把這些金融科技當成那個鯰魚來刺激這個傳統的銀行要求他們做金融科技的一些精進跟改善結果這些創新業者其實老實講他的命運就是鯰魚而已事實上他也沒有辦法形成真正的創新業者結果就成為你提升改變這些傳統銀行業者的一個體質我覺得主委是不是有這種可能性先回答前面再來說後面\n139418\t151697\t其實從金融總會發布的一個金融科技創新報告來講過去這幾年金融業者跟科技業者合作的比率趨勢是大的是的確是這樣一個趨勢\n153979\t177240\t整體而言是有注意的啦我同意啦只是多數的人在他們人生的那個選擇當中他們可能離開了原來的傳統的這個金融機構投入了所謂的創新金融創新結果後來發現在整個制度沒有完整的時候他們半路就死在沙灘上了啦但是改變了整個體質變成自己成為一個成就傳統業者的一個養分\n179242\t195644\t這是我個人的觀察這不是重點啦重點我要請你回答是剛剛那個部分啦簡單來講TSB的部分你現在的方式整體而言呢資安風險的這個應對怎麼處理因為他將來掌握了很多訊息啊所有訊息當中在整個第三方的時候來做一個\n196304\t199347\t統籌來分享這裡頭的治安問題怎麼處理我在想說這個第三方真的有資歷真的有辦法去應對這個風險的管控嗎資訊風險的管控嗎更何況銀行端都還要設立這個所謂的這個這個治安長\n214160\t231355\t這個第三方有辦法這樣做嗎其實您垂詢的邏輯跟剛剛沈釗偉垂詢邏輯是相同的就是覺得這兩者之間這三方的關係必須要拉平才能讓民眾有信心那我也特別要跟您報告我個人的想法Open Banking其實是來自於一些歐美國家\n231855\t256084\t那些國家的銀行競爭的強度不像台灣那麼強所以它Open Banking有很大的市場在那台灣的本身銀行競爭就已經相對的激烈了所以民眾對於Open Banking第三階段的發展是不是跟其他國家一樣這個我們要再觀察可是制度上我們還是會繼續規劃下去那幾位委員對我們的垂尋指導我們會立刻來去調整\n257384\t264214\t對 那在參與其中的這些這個TSB的業者當中也有一些傳統的金融機構介入嘛對不對 參與嘛\n266669\t293920\t周邊吧然後像一些電信業者對電信業者我手頭上這邊就有遠雄嘛遠傳等等嘛都有參加嘛那也有一些受選公司嘛第一階段比較多有些記帳公司啊對啊對這些都有啊就是說但是將來會不會演變成說呢有部分的金融機構他有這樣的參與另外一個部分沒有會形成一個不公平的經業現象\n295796\t322445\t目前應該不會因為我想第三方這個開放銀行第三方目前制度還沒有規劃完所以剛剛有委員槌尋什麼時候會開始我想我們規劃完之後那如果包括剛剛委員您槌尋的一些事情我們要再檢討的時候我們會再看看整個規範是不是符合委員的期待所以說一部分我們在進行第三階段的一個交易面的諮詢的一個審議的階段那另外一部分的話我們也在考慮說要如何把它建立一個規範\n323565\t341828\t所以我剛剛提的所謂治安的部分,頒發指引規範的部分,還有分歧的部分,都可能在討論當中嗎?有,我想今天經過這樣一個專案報告,我們得到委員的很多高見跟指導,我們會回去立刻再討論一下,現在業者我們報來的東西,是不是合乎委員的期待?\n342861\t357106\t約莫裡面大概會多久的時間會把這個討論做一個初步的成果我們原來在報告中規劃跟委員報告是年底我們看盡量是不是照委員的期待年底前但是也符合委員對於內容上的要求\n357588\t382366\t好 那如果這個部分變靈納管的業務好像又越來越多了所以說 我再追問你一個問題我在總質詢的時候 那時候我就問陳建仁那個陳院長 但是你個人是不好意思啦我是說有沒有可能把這個另外把貴單位的整個組織變資多增加一個金融科技局後來那個院長有沒有跟你們進行討論\n384521\t407646\t行政院這邊有交代我們去做研究那我想我們也在研究中研究中那你多久的時候要呈報行政院?初步的意見是在現況中我們還能夠現在接受的新的業務還能夠在行政院同意增援的額度之內去做調適本市已經幫你講話了你還這麼客氣\n410947\t430136\t未籌謀可能就要看如果大的調整包括增加局處的話可能要做更完整的規劃我們正在做細部的這個還要牽涉到這細部的規劃約莫多久其實大家其實都擔心那個金管會的負擔過重不是除了擔心你們這個管理嚴格之外\n431116\t457384\t這除了負擔之外還需要看看這樣業務的新增設置一些固定的局處對未來的發展的對業者金融業的發展而且對社會現象產生出來我們都能夠去解決這些問題包括科技這些東西對金管會的期待又很高所以你的業務一定會越來越重我是建議你這個部分的這一個內部的這個規劃要提早進行向上呈報好不好\n459845\t483289\t另外一個部分呢,有關於這個存網營的部分我看起來,有一家不符合規定,不符合摩擦產物保險不符合規定那另外一個中信呢,這個網路產業保險,產保呢基本上他們已經宣布退場這個都是在金管會2022年的時候開放存保以後,為二兩家\n486830\t512622\t之所以為二兩家呢是你們當初的這個管理辦法當中的29條之一關於這個受險的部分保障型的商品限制非常的少那另外一部分呢這個產險的部分以創新型的定義又不清楚啦所以說你們又對外宣布說明年的時候一月份的時候要開放申請純網保明年一月開放會不會純網保變純網保\n515782\t534947\t就是就GAME OVER了就不會了都沒有業者我們不太確定因為重點是市場上要提供類似這種跟異業合作的一些商品那事實上我們在今年10月已經大幅放寬保險業電子商務跟異業合作的一些注意事項也就是突破29條之一了嗎\n537190\t544747\t那些商品規範對 我們也有大幅突破會會我們會提供您參考所以現在已經有業者跟異業在做合作的規劃了\n546149\t570489\t所以說存款網保的可能性還會持續進行嗎還會那另外一個部分有關於人頭戶限制的部分您提到說這個明年會上路啦但是上路的部分會進行所謂的管制行為如果假設它是被規範宣布為人頭帳戶的話那麼它一天只能提領一萬元\n571149\t587325\t那現在問題來了有些人頭賬戶他本來是受害者他一不小心會成了人頭賬戶這種人會不會變成惡毒受害者這個部分謝謝委員吹醒我記得有一些例外就是如果他以薪資為主的話他是有一個可以讓他用\n590392\t618340\t因為這個是所謂告戒戶那告戒戶是警察機關在開的啦所以告戒戶認定權就是警察你們就看警察提供了誰你們就做你們就負責執行你們就負責執行那有沒有連做處罰他明明是一個帳戶被用了他其他帳戶也會不會這樣處理因為按照這個告戒戶的辦法的話他是以人名就是那個ID控管所以只要是那個ID的話他在銀行的所有的帳戶都會收到這些\n619940\t640448\t那將來他還有機會透過DSB的方式來進行交易嗎這個如果以這樣子來看的話因為他還是帳戶的控管所以銀行在系統上面會把那個帳戶做控管所有的可能性都沒有了好那謝謝局長那最後問一下那個\n641608\t663469\t其實也是局長的業務就是揮名單的部分揮名單的部分其實就是把這個加碼研議出所謂的殭屍賬戶的一個管控我認為這個是一個不錯的做法這反患於未然但是目前問題點是這個揮名單的參加的業者只有九家銀行加入四家公股 四家民營 加一個郵局主委 局長這會不會太少\n665061\t686848\t報委員 三十八家 總共 上次在委員知道 月底賬戶的部分啊對 我們已經要求就是那個會名單的部分的話會在第一季全部都要上路那剛剛您說的那個是今年 明年一月那到了第一季是全部都要上路全部都要上路 明年一月全部上路好 謝謝你喔 好 謝謝主委謝謝委員 謝謝\n690165\t698020\t好 那個我們接下來請費鴻泰委員上台質詢那在費鴻泰委員質詢結束之後我們休息五分鐘好 請費委員上台質詢\n","txt":"我想開放銀行這個部分第一階段第二階段都已經上路了現在好像進入那個深水區就是交易面的這個資訊的部分\n那把這個開放銀行的這個政策落實具有相當大的挑戰性的階段我個人認為就是在第三個部分我看到第一個部分有27家銀行跟6家第三方的TSB合作那第二階段有17家跟2家的TSB合作\n可是主委到第三階段的時候那個TSB的加速會不會越來越少第三階段會不會沒有啊我們預期因為他要求的標準更高包括剛才沈昭惠也提到資安上面要特別注意我想應該不會像以前那麼多\n對啊 現在已經六家兩家那以後會不會更少標準越來越高門檻會越來越高門檻會越來越高那因為這一個開放銀行這樣子處理下去我覺得最關鍵的會讓外界最擔憂的部分還是在於這個整個資安風險的一個應對第二個的部分呢那個主管機關呢\n到底有沒有可能頒布一些指引規範第三個部分呢是TSB的分級的制度我覺得這三個部分這樣子那我個人在看這個金融科技的部分往往過去我們的操作模式都把它當成一個體制化的體制外的沙盒的模式處理當我們付出一些社會成本之後我們再進行修正這是第一個我觀察到的現象第二個我觀察到的現象呢就是\n主委你會把這些金融科技當成那個鯰魚來刺激這個傳統的銀行要求他們做金融科技的一些精進跟改善結果這些創新業者其實老實講他的命運就是鯰魚而已事實上他也沒有辦法形成真正的創新業者結果就成為你提升改變這些傳統銀行業者的一個體質我覺得主委是不是有這種可能性先回答前面再來說後面\n其實從金融總會發布的一個金融科技創新報告來講過去這幾年金融業者跟科技業者合作的比率趨勢是大的是的確是這樣一個趨勢\n整體而言是有注意的啦我同意啦只是多數的人在他們人生的那個選擇當中他們可能離開了原來的傳統的這個金融機構投入了所謂的創新金融創新結果後來發現在整個制度沒有完整的時候他們半路就死在沙灘上了啦但是改變了整個體質變成自己成為一個成就傳統業者的一個養分\n這是我個人的觀察這不是重點啦重點我要請你回答是剛剛那個部分啦簡單來講TSB的部分你現在的方式整體而言呢資安風險的這個應對怎麼處理因為他將來掌握了很多訊息啊所有訊息當中在整個第三方的時候來做一個\n統籌來分享這裡頭的治安問題怎麼處理我在想說這個第三方真的有資歷真的有辦法去應對這個風險的管控嗎資訊風險的管控嗎更何況銀行端都還要設立這個所謂的這個這個治安長\n這個第三方有辦法這樣做嗎其實您垂詢的邏輯跟剛剛沈釗偉垂詢邏輯是相同的就是覺得這兩者之間這三方的關係必須要拉平才能讓民眾有信心那我也特別要跟您報告我個人的想法Open Banking其實是來自於一些歐美國家\n那些國家的銀行競爭的強度不像台灣那麼強所以它Open Banking有很大的市場在那台灣的本身銀行競爭就已經相對的激烈了所以民眾對於Open Banking第三階段的發展是不是跟其他國家一樣這個我們要再觀察可是制度上我們還是會繼續規劃下去那幾位委員對我們的垂尋指導我們會立刻來去調整\n對 那在參與其中的這些這個TSB的業者當中也有一些傳統的金融機構介入嘛對不對 參與嘛\n周邊吧然後像一些電信業者對電信業者我手頭上這邊就有遠雄嘛遠傳等等嘛都有參加嘛那也有一些受選公司嘛第一階段比較多有些記帳公司啊對啊對這些都有啊就是說但是將來會不會演變成說呢有部分的金融機構他有這樣的參與另外一個部分沒有會形成一個不公平的經業現象\n目前應該不會因為我想第三方這個開放銀行第三方目前制度還沒有規劃完所以剛剛有委員槌尋什麼時候會開始我想我們規劃完之後那如果包括剛剛委員您槌尋的一些事情我們要再檢討的時候我們會再看看整個規範是不是符合委員的期待所以說一部分我們在進行第三階段的一個交易面的諮詢的一個審議的階段那另外一部分的話我們也在考慮說要如何把它建立一個規範\n所以我剛剛提的所謂治安的部分,頒發指引規範的部分,還有分歧的部分,都可能在討論當中嗎?有,我想今天經過這樣一個專案報告,我們得到委員的很多高見跟指導,我們會回去立刻再討論一下,現在業者我們報來的東西,是不是合乎委員的期待?\n約莫裡面大概會多久的時間會把這個討論做一個初步的成果我們原來在報告中規劃跟委員報告是年底我們看盡量是不是照委員的期待年底前但是也符合委員對於內容上的要求\n好 那如果這個部分變靈納管的業務好像又越來越多了所以說 我再追問你一個問題我在總質詢的時候 那時候我就問陳建仁那個陳院長 但是你個人是不好意思啦我是說有沒有可能把這個另外把貴單位的整個組織變資多增加一個金融科技局後來那個院長有沒有跟你們進行討論\n行政院這邊有交代我們去做研究那我想我們也在研究中研究中那你多久的時候要呈報行政院?初步的意見是在現況中我們還能夠現在接受的新的業務還能夠在行政院同意增援的額度之內去做調適本市已經幫你講話了你還這麼客氣\n未籌謀可能就要看如果大的調整包括增加局處的話可能要做更完整的規劃我們正在做細部的這個還要牽涉到這細部的規劃約莫多久其實大家其實都擔心那個金管會的負擔過重不是除了擔心你們這個管理嚴格之外\n這除了負擔之外還需要看看這樣業務的新增設置一些固定的局處對未來的發展的對業者金融業的發展而且對社會現象產生出來我們都能夠去解決這些問題包括科技這些東西對金管會的期待又很高所以你的業務一定會越來越重我是建議你這個部分的這一個內部的這個規劃要提早進行向上呈報好不好\n另外一個部分呢,有關於這個存網營的部分我看起來,有一家不符合規定,不符合摩擦產物保險不符合規定那另外一個中信呢,這個網路產業保險,產保呢基本上他們已經宣布退場這個都是在金管會2022年的時候開放存保以後,為二兩家\n之所以為二兩家呢是你們當初的這個管理辦法當中的29條之一關於這個受險的部分保障型的商品限制非常的少那另外一部分呢這個產險的部分以創新型的定義又不清楚啦所以說你們又對外宣布說明年的時候一月份的時候要開放申請純網保明年一月開放會不會純網保變純網保\n就是就GAME OVER了就不會了都沒有業者我們不太確定因為重點是市場上要提供類似這種跟異業合作的一些商品那事實上我們在今年10月已經大幅放寬保險業電子商務跟異業合作的一些注意事項也就是突破29條之一了嗎\n那些商品規範對 我們也有大幅突破會會我們會提供您參考所以現在已經有業者跟異業在做合作的規劃了\n所以說存款網保的可能性還會持續進行嗎還會那另外一個部分有關於人頭戶限制的部分您提到說這個明年會上路啦但是上路的部分會進行所謂的管制行為如果假設它是被規範宣布為人頭帳戶的話那麼它一天只能提領一萬元\n那現在問題來了有些人頭賬戶他本來是受害者他一不小心會成了人頭賬戶這種人會不會變成惡毒受害者這個部分謝謝委員吹醒我記得有一些例外就是如果他以薪資為主的話他是有一個可以讓他用\n因為這個是所謂告戒戶那告戒戶是警察機關在開的啦所以告戒戶認定權就是警察你們就看警察提供了誰你們就做你們就負責執行你們就負責執行那有沒有連做處罰他明明是一個帳戶被用了他其他帳戶也會不會這樣處理因為按照這個告戒戶的辦法的話他是以人名就是那個ID控管所以只要是那個ID的話他在銀行的所有的帳戶都會收到這些\n那將來他還有機會透過DSB的方式來進行交易嗎這個如果以這樣子來看的話因為他還是帳戶的控管所以銀行在系統上面會把那個帳戶做控管所有的可能性都沒有了好那謝謝局長那最後問一下那個\n其實也是局長的業務就是揮名單的部分揮名單的部分其實就是把這個加碼研議出所謂的殭屍賬戶的一個管控我認為這個是一個不錯的做法這反患於未然但是目前問題點是這個揮名單的參加的業者只有九家銀行加入四家公股 四家民營 加一個郵局主委 局長這會不會太少\n報委員 三十八家 總共 上次在委員知道 月底賬戶的部分啊對 我們已經要求就是那個會名單的部分的話會在第一季全部都要上路那剛剛您說的那個是今年 明年一月那到了第一季是全部都要上路全部都要上路 明年一月全部上路好 謝謝你喔 好 謝謝主委謝謝委員 謝謝\n好 那個我們接下來請費鴻泰委員上台質詢那在費鴻泰委員質詢結束之後我們休息五分鐘好 請費委員上台質詢\n","vtt":"WEBVTT\n\n00:00.409 --> 00:07.812\n我想開放銀行這個部分第一階段第二階段都已經上路了現在好像進入那個深水區就是交易面的這個資訊的部分\n\n00:18.362 --> 00:36.473\n那把這個開放銀行的這個政策落實具有相當大的挑戰性的階段我個人認為就是在第三個部分我看到第一個部分有27家銀行跟6家第三方的TSB合作那第二階段有17家跟2家的TSB合作\n\n00:37.313 --> 00:51.509\n可是主委到第三階段的時候那個TSB的加速會不會越來越少第三階段會不會沒有啊我們預期因為他要求的標準更高包括剛才沈昭惠也提到資安上面要特別注意我想應該不會像以前那麼多\n\n00:52.751 --> 01:16.068\n對啊現在已經六家兩家那以後會不會更少標準越來越高門檻會越來越高門檻會越來越高那因為這一個開放銀行這樣子處理下去我覺得最關鍵的會讓外界最擔憂的部分還是在於這個整個資安風險的一個應對第二個的部分呢那個主管機關呢\n\n01:16.929 --> 01:46.190\n到底有沒有可能頒布一些指引規範第三個部分呢是TSB的分級的制度我覺得這三個部分這樣子那我個人在看這個金融科技的部分往往過去我們的操作模式都把它當成一個體制化的體制外的沙盒的模式處理當我們付出一些社會成本之後我們再進行修正這是第一個我觀察到的現象第二個我觀察到的現象呢就是\n\n01:46.690 --> 02:15.283\n主委你會把這些金融科技當成那個鯰魚來刺激這個傳統的銀行要求他們做金融科技的一些精進跟改善結果這些創新業者其實老實講他的命運就是鯰魚而已事實上他也沒有辦法形成真正的創新業者結果就成為你提升改變這些傳統銀行業者的一個體質我覺得主委是不是有這種可能性先回答前面再來說後面\n\n02:19.418 --> 02:31.697\n其實從金融總會發布的一個金融科技創新報告來講過去這幾年金融業者跟科技業者合作的比率趨勢是大的是的確是這樣一個趨勢\n\n02:33.979 --> 02:57.240\n整體而言是有注意的啦我同意啦只是多數的人在他們人生的那個選擇當中他們可能離開了原來的傳統的這個金融機構投入了所謂的創新金融創新結果後來發現在整個制度沒有完整的時候他們半路就死在沙灘上了啦但是改變了整個體質變成自己成為一個成就傳統業者的一個養分\n\n02:59.242 --> 03:15.644\n這是我個人的觀察這不是重點啦重點我要請你回答是剛剛那個部分啦簡單來講TSB的部分你現在的方式整體而言呢資安風險的這個應對怎麼處理因為他將來掌握了很多訊息啊所有訊息當中在整個第三方的時候來做一個\n\n03:16.304 --> 03:19.347\n統籌來分享這裡頭的治安問題怎麼處理我在想說這個第三方真的有資歷真的有辦法去應對這個風險的管控嗎資訊風險的管控嗎更何況銀行端都還要設立這個所謂的這個這個治安長\n\n03:34.160 --> 03:51.355\n這個第三方有辦法這樣做嗎其實您垂詢的邏輯跟剛剛沈釗偉垂詢邏輯是相同的就是覺得這兩者之間這三方的關係必須要拉平才能讓民眾有信心那我也特別要跟您報告我個人的想法OpenBanking其實是來自於一些歐美國家\n\n03:51.855 --> 04:16.084\n那些國家的銀行競爭的強度不像台灣那麼強所以它OpenBanking有很大的市場在那台灣的本身銀行競爭就已經相對的激烈了所以民眾對於OpenBanking第三階段的發展是不是跟其他國家一樣這個我們要再觀察可是制度上我們還是會繼續規劃下去那幾位委員對我們的垂尋指導我們會立刻來去調整\n\n04:17.384 --> 04:24.214\n對那在參與其中的這些這個TSB的業者當中也有一些傳統的金融機構介入嘛對不對參與嘛\n\n04:26.669 --> 04:53.920\n周邊吧然後像一些電信業者對電信業者我手頭上這邊就有遠雄嘛遠傳等等嘛都有參加嘛那也有一些受選公司嘛第一階段比較多有些記帳公司啊對啊對這些都有啊就是說但是將來會不會演變成說呢有部分的金融機構他有這樣的參與另外一個部分沒有會形成一個不公平的經業現象\n\n04:55.796 --> 05:22.445\n目前應該不會因為我想第三方這個開放銀行第三方目前制度還沒有規劃完所以剛剛有委員槌尋什麼時候會開始我想我們規劃完之後那如果包括剛剛委員您槌尋的一些事情我們要再檢討的時候我們會再看看整個規範是不是符合委員的期待所以說一部分我們在進行第三階段的一個交易面的諮詢的一個審議的階段那另外一部分的話我們也在考慮說要如何把它建立一個規範\n\n05:23.565 --> 05:41.828\n所以我剛剛提的所謂治安的部分,頒發指引規範的部分,還有分歧的部分,都可能在討論當中嗎?有,我想今天經過這樣一個專案報告,我們得到委員的很多高見跟指導,我們會回去立刻再討論一下,現在業者我們報來的東西,是不是合乎委員的期待?\n\n05:42.861 --> 05:57.106\n約莫裡面大概會多久的時間會把這個討論做一個初步的成果我們原來在報告中規劃跟委員報告是年底我們看盡量是不是照委員的期待年底前但是也符合委員對於內容上的要求\n\n05:57.588 --> 06:22.366\n好那如果這個部分變靈納管的業務好像又越來越多了所以說我再追問你一個問題我在總質詢的時候那時候我就問陳建仁那個陳院長但是你個人是不好意思啦我是說有沒有可能把這個另外把貴單位的整個組織變資多增加一個金融科技局後來那個院長有沒有跟你們進行討論\n\n06:24.521 --> 06:47.646\n行政院這邊有交代我們去做研究那我想我們也在研究中研究中那你多久的時候要呈報行政院?初步的意見是在現況中我們還能夠現在接受的新的業務還能夠在行政院同意增援的額度之內去做調適本市已經幫你講話了你還這麼客氣\n\n06:50.947 --> 07:10.136\n未籌謀可能就要看如果大的調整包括增加局處的話可能要做更完整的規劃我們正在做細部的這個還要牽涉到這細部的規劃約莫多久其實大家其實都擔心那個金管會的負擔過重不是除了擔心你們這個管理嚴格之外\n\n07:11.116 --> 07:37.384\n這除了負擔之外還需要看看這樣業務的新增設置一些固定的局處對未來的發展的對業者金融業的發展而且對社會現象產生出來我們都能夠去解決這些問題包括科技這些東西對金管會的期待又很高所以你的業務一定會越來越重我是建議你這個部分的這一個內部的這個規劃要提早進行向上呈報好不好\n\n07:39.845 --> 08:03.289\n另外一個部分呢,有關於這個存網營的部分我看起來,有一家不符合規定,不符合摩擦產物保險不符合規定那另外一個中信呢,這個網路產業保險,產保呢基本上他們已經宣布退場這個都是在金管會2022年的時候開放存保以後,為二兩家\n\n08:06.830 --> 08:32.622\n之所以為二兩家呢是你們當初的這個管理辦法當中的29條之一關於這個受險的部分保障型的商品限制非常的少那另外一部分呢這個產險的部分以創新型的定義又不清楚啦所以說你們又對外宣布說明年的時候一月份的時候要開放申請純網保明年一月開放會不會純網保變純網保\n\n08:35.782 --> 08:54.947\n就是就GAMEOVER了就不會了都沒有業者我們不太確定因為重點是市場上要提供類似這種跟異業合作的一些商品那事實上我們在今年10月已經大幅放寬保險業電子商務跟異業合作的一些注意事項也就是突破29條之一了嗎\n\n08:57.190 --> 09:04.747\n那些商品規範對我們也有大幅突破會會我們會提供您參考所以現在已經有業者跟異業在做合作的規劃了\n\n09:06.149 --> 09:30.489\n所以說存款網保的可能性還會持續進行嗎還會那另外一個部分有關於人頭戶限制的部分您提到說這個明年會上路啦但是上路的部分會進行所謂的管制行為如果假設它是被規範宣布為人頭帳戶的話那麼它一天只能提領一萬元\n\n09:31.149 --> 09:47.325\n那現在問題來了有些人頭賬戶他本來是受害者他一不小心會成了人頭賬戶這種人會不會變成惡毒受害者這個部分謝謝委員吹醒我記得有一些例外就是如果他以薪資為主的話他是有一個可以讓他用\n\n09:50.392 --> 10:18.340\n因為這個是所謂告戒戶那告戒戶是警察機關在開的啦所以告戒戶認定權就是警察你們就看警察提供了誰你們就做你們就負責執行你們就負責執行那有沒有連做處罰他明明是一個帳戶被用了他其他帳戶也會不會這樣處理因為按照這個告戒戶的辦法的話他是以人名就是那個ID控管所以只要是那個ID的話他在銀行的所有的帳戶都會收到這些\n\n10:19.940 --> 10:40.448\n那將來他還有機會透過DSB的方式來進行交易嗎這個如果以這樣子來看的話因為他還是帳戶的控管所以銀行在系統上面會把那個帳戶做控管所有的可能性都沒有了好那謝謝局長那最後問一下那個\n\n10:41.608 --> 11:03.469\n其實也是局長的業務就是揮名單的部分揮名單的部分其實就是把這個加碼研議出所謂的殭屍賬戶的一個管控我認為這個是一個不錯的做法這反患於未然但是目前問題點是這個揮名單的參加的業者只有九家銀行加入四家公股四家民營加一個郵局主委局長這會不會太少\n\n11:05.061 --> 11:26.848\n報委員三十八家總共上次在委員知道月底賬戶的部分啊對我們已經要求就是那個會名單的部分的話會在第一季全部都要上路那剛剛您說的那個是今年明年一月那到了第一季是全部都要上路全部都要上路明年一月全部上路好謝謝你喔好謝謝主委謝謝委員謝謝\n\n11:30.165 --> 11:38.020\n好那個我們接下來請費鴻泰委員上台質詢那在費鴻泰委員質詢結束之後我們休息五分鐘好請費委員上台質詢\n\n","segments":[{"start":0.409,"end":7.812,"text":"我想開放銀行這個部分第一階段第二階段都已經上路了現在好像進入那個深水區就是交易面的這個資訊的部分"},{"start":18.362,"end":36.473,"text":"那把這個開放銀行的這個政策落實具有相當大的挑戰性的階段我個人認為就是在第三個部分我看到第一個部分有27家銀行跟6家第三方的TSB合作那第二階段有17家跟2家的TSB合作"},{"start":37.313,"end":51.509,"text":"可是主委到第三階段的時候那個TSB的加速會不會越來越少第三階段會不會沒有啊我們預期因為他要求的標準更高包括剛才沈昭惠也提到資安上面要特別注意我想應該不會像以前那麼多"},{"start":52.751,"end":76.068,"text":"對啊 現在已經六家兩家那以後會不會更少標準越來越高門檻會越來越高門檻會越來越高那因為這一個開放銀行這樣子處理下去我覺得最關鍵的會讓外界最擔憂的部分還是在於這個整個資安風險的一個應對第二個的部分呢那個主管機關呢"},{"start":76.929,"end":106.19,"text":"到底有沒有可能頒布一些指引規範第三個部分呢是TSB的分級的制度我覺得這三個部分這樣子那我個人在看這個金融科技的部分往往過去我們的操作模式都把它當成一個體制化的體制外的沙盒的模式處理當我們付出一些社會成本之後我們再進行修正這是第一個我觀察到的現象第二個我觀察到的現象呢就是"},{"start":106.69,"end":135.283,"text":"主委你會把這些金融科技當成那個鯰魚來刺激這個傳統的銀行要求他們做金融科技的一些精進跟改善結果這些創新業者其實老實講他的命運就是鯰魚而已事實上他也沒有辦法形成真正的創新業者結果就成為你提升改變這些傳統銀行業者的一個體質我覺得主委是不是有這種可能性先回答前面再來說後面"},{"start":139.418,"end":151.697,"text":"其實從金融總會發布的一個金融科技創新報告來講過去這幾年金融業者跟科技業者合作的比率趨勢是大的是的確是這樣一個趨勢"},{"start":153.979,"end":177.24,"text":"整體而言是有注意的啦我同意啦只是多數的人在他們人生的那個選擇當中他們可能離開了原來的傳統的這個金融機構投入了所謂的創新金融創新結果後來發現在整個制度沒有完整的時候他們半路就死在沙灘上了啦但是改變了整個體質變成自己成為一個成就傳統業者的一個養分"},{"start":179.242,"end":195.644,"text":"這是我個人的觀察這不是重點啦重點我要請你回答是剛剛那個部分啦簡單來講TSB的部分你現在的方式整體而言呢資安風險的這個應對怎麼處理因為他將來掌握了很多訊息啊所有訊息當中在整個第三方的時候來做一個"},{"start":196.304,"end":199.347,"text":"統籌來分享這裡頭的治安問題怎麼處理我在想說這個第三方真的有資歷真的有辦法去應對這個風險的管控嗎資訊風險的管控嗎更何況銀行端都還要設立這個所謂的這個這個治安長"},{"start":214.16,"end":231.355,"text":"這個第三方有辦法這樣做嗎其實您垂詢的邏輯跟剛剛沈釗偉垂詢邏輯是相同的就是覺得這兩者之間這三方的關係必須要拉平才能讓民眾有信心那我也特別要跟您報告我個人的想法Open Banking其實是來自於一些歐美國家"},{"start":231.855,"end":256.084,"text":"那些國家的銀行競爭的強度不像台灣那麼強所以它Open Banking有很大的市場在那台灣的本身銀行競爭就已經相對的激烈了所以民眾對於Open Banking第三階段的發展是不是跟其他國家一樣這個我們要再觀察可是制度上我們還是會繼續規劃下去那幾位委員對我們的垂尋指導我們會立刻來去調整"},{"start":257.384,"end":264.214,"text":"對 那在參與其中的這些這個TSB的業者當中也有一些傳統的金融機構介入嘛對不對 參與嘛"},{"start":266.669,"end":293.92,"text":"周邊吧然後像一些電信業者對電信業者我手頭上這邊就有遠雄嘛遠傳等等嘛都有參加嘛那也有一些受選公司嘛第一階段比較多有些記帳公司啊對啊對這些都有啊就是說但是將來會不會演變成說呢有部分的金融機構他有這樣的參與另外一個部分沒有會形成一個不公平的經業現象"},{"start":295.796,"end":322.445,"text":"目前應該不會因為我想第三方這個開放銀行第三方目前制度還沒有規劃完所以剛剛有委員槌尋什麼時候會開始我想我們規劃完之後那如果包括剛剛委員您槌尋的一些事情我們要再檢討的時候我們會再看看整個規範是不是符合委員的期待所以說一部分我們在進行第三階段的一個交易面的諮詢的一個審議的階段那另外一部分的話我們也在考慮說要如何把它建立一個規範"},{"start":323.565,"end":341.828,"text":"所以我剛剛提的所謂治安的部分,頒發指引規範的部分,還有分歧的部分,都可能在討論當中嗎?有,我想今天經過這樣一個專案報告,我們得到委員的很多高見跟指導,我們會回去立刻再討論一下,現在業者我們報來的東西,是不是合乎委員的期待?"},{"start":342.861,"end":357.106,"text":"約莫裡面大概會多久的時間會把這個討論做一個初步的成果我們原來在報告中規劃跟委員報告是年底我們看盡量是不是照委員的期待年底前但是也符合委員對於內容上的要求"},{"start":357.588,"end":382.366,"text":"好 那如果這個部分變靈納管的業務好像又越來越多了所以說 我再追問你一個問題我在總質詢的時候 那時候我就問陳建仁那個陳院長 但是你個人是不好意思啦我是說有沒有可能把這個另外把貴單位的整個組織變資多增加一個金融科技局後來那個院長有沒有跟你們進行討論"},{"start":384.521,"end":407.646,"text":"行政院這邊有交代我們去做研究那我想我們也在研究中研究中那你多久的時候要呈報行政院?初步的意見是在現況中我們還能夠現在接受的新的業務還能夠在行政院同意增援的額度之內去做調適本市已經幫你講話了你還這麼客氣"},{"start":410.947,"end":430.136,"text":"未籌謀可能就要看如果大的調整包括增加局處的話可能要做更完整的規劃我們正在做細部的這個還要牽涉到這細部的規劃約莫多久其實大家其實都擔心那個金管會的負擔過重不是除了擔心你們這個管理嚴格之外"},{"start":431.116,"end":457.384,"text":"這除了負擔之外還需要看看這樣業務的新增設置一些固定的局處對未來的發展的對業者金融業的發展而且對社會現象產生出來我們都能夠去解決這些問題包括科技這些東西對金管會的期待又很高所以你的業務一定會越來越重我是建議你這個部分的這一個內部的這個規劃要提早進行向上呈報好不好"},{"start":459.845,"end":483.289,"text":"另外一個部分呢,有關於這個存網營的部分我看起來,有一家不符合規定,不符合摩擦產物保險不符合規定那另外一個中信呢,這個網路產業保險,產保呢基本上他們已經宣布退場這個都是在金管會2022年的時候開放存保以後,為二兩家"},{"start":486.83,"end":512.622,"text":"之所以為二兩家呢是你們當初的這個管理辦法當中的29條之一關於這個受險的部分保障型的商品限制非常的少那另外一部分呢這個產險的部分以創新型的定義又不清楚啦所以說你們又對外宣布說明年的時候一月份的時候要開放申請純網保明年一月開放會不會純網保變純網保"},{"start":515.782,"end":534.947,"text":"就是就GAME OVER了就不會了都沒有業者我們不太確定因為重點是市場上要提供類似這種跟異業合作的一些商品那事實上我們在今年10月已經大幅放寬保險業電子商務跟異業合作的一些注意事項也就是突破29條之一了嗎"},{"start":537.19,"end":544.747,"text":"那些商品規範對 我們也有大幅突破會會我們會提供您參考所以現在已經有業者跟異業在做合作的規劃了"},{"start":546.149,"end":570.489,"text":"所以說存款網保的可能性還會持續進行嗎還會那另外一個部分有關於人頭戶限制的部分您提到說這個明年會上路啦但是上路的部分會進行所謂的管制行為如果假設它是被規範宣布為人頭帳戶的話那麼它一天只能提領一萬元"},{"start":571.149,"end":587.325,"text":"那現在問題來了有些人頭賬戶他本來是受害者他一不小心會成了人頭賬戶這種人會不會變成惡毒受害者這個部分謝謝委員吹醒我記得有一些例外就是如果他以薪資為主的話他是有一個可以讓他用"},{"start":590.392,"end":618.34,"text":"因為這個是所謂告戒戶那告戒戶是警察機關在開的啦所以告戒戶認定權就是警察你們就看警察提供了誰你們就做你們就負責執行你們就負責執行那有沒有連做處罰他明明是一個帳戶被用了他其他帳戶也會不會這樣處理因為按照這個告戒戶的辦法的話他是以人名就是那個ID控管所以只要是那個ID的話他在銀行的所有的帳戶都會收到這些"},{"start":619.94,"end":640.448,"text":"那將來他還有機會透過DSB的方式來進行交易嗎這個如果以這樣子來看的話因為他還是帳戶的控管所以銀行在系統上面會把那個帳戶做控管所有的可能性都沒有了好那謝謝局長那最後問一下那個"},{"start":641.608,"end":663.469,"text":"其實也是局長的業務就是揮名單的部分揮名單的部分其實就是把這個加碼研議出所謂的殭屍賬戶的一個管控我認為這個是一個不錯的做法這反患於未然但是目前問題點是這個揮名單的參加的業者只有九家銀行加入四家公股 四家民營 加一個郵局主委 局長這會不會太少"},{"start":665.061,"end":686.848,"text":"報委員 三十八家 總共 上次在委員知道 月底賬戶的部分啊對 我們已經要求就是那個會名單的部分的話會在第一季全部都要上路那剛剛您說的那個是今年 明年一月那到了第一季是全部都要上路全部都要上路 明年一月全部上路好 謝謝你喔 好 謝謝主委謝謝委員 謝謝"},{"start":690.165,"end":698.02,"text":"好 那個我們接下來請費鴻泰委員上台質詢那在費鴻泰委員質詢結束之後我們休息五分鐘好 請費委員上台質詢"}]}}}}