{"id":148964,"url":"https://ivod.ly.gov.tw/Play/Clip/1M/148964","video_url":"https://ivod-lyvod.cdn.hinet.net/vod_1/_definst_/mp4:1MClips/a0ee4ec253a72029835cceac2c888d6894fc233f19f174e7c986728e607a0322ef5a74ead98971cb5ea18f28b6918d91.mp4/playlist.m3u8","委員名稱":"陳玉珍","委員發言時間":"10:51:26 - 11:01:16","影片長度":"00:09:50","會議時間":"2023-12-11T10:00:00+08:00","會議名稱":"立法院第10屆第8會期內政委員會第13次全體委員會議（事由：一、邀請中央選舉委員會主任委員、內政部部長、警政署署長、消防署署長、海巡署署長、原住民族委員會主任委員、國防部、法務部就「第16任總統副總統及第11屆立法委員選舉選務工作辦理情形、執勤軍警消海巡人員投票權益、文化健康站等工作人員於選舉期間之行政中立」進行專題報告，並備質詢；另邀請司法院列席備詢。二、原住民身分法：(一)審查行政院函請審議「原住民身分法修正草案」案。(二)繼續審查委員鄭天財SraKacaw等16人擬具「原住民身分法第五條、第七條及第九條條文修正草案」案。(三)繼續審查委員劉櫂豪等18人擬具「原住民身分法第九條條文修正草案」案。(四)繼續審查委員郭國文等16人擬具「原住民身分法第二條條文修正草案」案。(五)繼續審查委員張宏陸等20人擬具「原住民身分法第二條條文修正草案」案。(六)繼續審查委員鄭天財SraKacaw等18人擬具「原住民身分法第四條及第八條之一條文修正草案」案。(七)審查委員蔡適應等25人擬具「原住民身分法第四條、第七條及第八條條文修正草案」案。(八)審查委員陳明文等16人擬具「原住民身分法第九條條文修正草案」案。三、原住民族工作權保障法：(一)審查行政院函請審議「原住民族工作權保障法部分條文修正草案」案。(二)審查委員鄭天財SraKacaw等17人擬具「原住民族工作權保障法部分條文修正草案」案。(三)審查委員伍麗華Saidhai Tahovecahe等18人擬具「原住民族工作權保障法修正草案」案。(四)審查委員陳瑩等16人擬具「原住民族工作權保障法第十一條條文修正草案」案。(五)審查委員陳瑩等17人擬具「原住民族工作權保障法第四條條文修正草案」案。(六)審查委員廖國棟等25人擬具「原住民族工作權保障法部分條文修正草案」案。(七)審查委員孔文吉等22人擬具「原住民族工作權保障法部分條文修正草案」案。四、姓名條例：(一)繼續審查委員鄭天財SraKacaw等16人擬具「姓名條例部分條文修正草案」案。(二)繼續審查委員伍麗華SaidhaiTahovecahe等20人擬具「姓名條例第二條及第四條條文修正草案」案。(三)繼續審查委員羅美玲等18人擬具「姓名條例第九條條文修正草案」案。(四)繼續審查委員廖國棟等16人擬具「姓名條例部分條文修正草案」案。【12月11日、14日兩天一次會】）","meet":{"tmpMeeting":null,"title":"第10屆第8會期內政委員會第13次全體委員會議","term":10,"type":"委員會","sessionPeriod":8,"sessionTimes":13,"committees":[15],"id":"委員會-10-8-15-13"},"date":"2023-12-11","duration":590,"end_time":"2023-12-11T11:01:16+08:00","start_time":"2023-12-11T10:51:26+08:00","features":["ai-transcript","gazette"],"type":"Clip","gazette":{"lineno":428,"blocks":[["陳委員玉珍：（10時51分）請中選會主委。"],["主席：李主委，請。"],["李主任委員進勇：委員好。"],["陳委員玉珍：主委早。今天總統、副總統的號次已經抽定了。"],["李主任委員進勇：是的。"],["陳委員玉珍：之前沸沸揚揚討論總統、副總統候選人資格審定的時候，請教你們那時候說三組候選人都審定合格嘛？"],["李主任委員進勇：是的。"],["陳委員玉珍：請問三組候選人的審定，你們是進行形式上的審查還是實質上的審查？"],["李主任委員進勇：是實質的審查。"],["陳委員玉珍：好，實質上的審查。當初在討論有關什麼回復國籍、雙重國籍，或是回復或歸化這部分的時候，你們都有相關的資料吧？"],["李主任委員進勇：我們有向內政部函查，內政部也非常清楚地告訴我們，三組候選人、六個候選人裡面沒有任何一個有回復國籍或是歸化國籍。"],["陳委員玉珍：所以你們是按照內政部的公文嗎？"],["李主任委員進勇：那當然！因為它是主管機關。"],["陳委員玉珍：它有沒有檢附相關的事證？沒有嘛？就只有公文嘛？"],["李主任委員進勇：它告訴我們結果。"],["陳委員玉珍：所以你們是按照內政部的公文告訴大眾說都符合資格，是內政部告訴你們符合……"],["李主任委員進勇：這個是非常明顯而且確定的。"],["陳委員玉珍：是內政部說的，那我們請內政部。所以有沒有人自始就有中華民國國籍或者原來是美國籍後來是歸化、回復？這部分內政部有做實質的審查嗎？"],["林部長右昌：就內政部的部分，我們有進行相關的查證。"],["陳委員玉珍：有實質查證就對了？"],["林部長右昌：當然。"],["陳委員玉珍：包括他的過去，是不是？"],["林部長右昌：對，我們會查他的戶籍資料。"],["陳委員玉珍：戶籍啦！那國籍的部分呢？"],["林部長右昌：也一樣，我們會查國籍……"],["陳委員玉珍：都有做詳查喔？"],["林部長右昌：是。"],["陳委員玉珍：所以你們手上有相關的資料嗎？"],["林部長右昌：是的。"],["陳委員玉珍：很詳細的資料，這部分是不是應該公開提示給社會大眾知道？"],["林部長右昌：委員，我跟你報告一下，第一個，不管是蕭女士的父親或是他個人，從來都沒有喪失國籍的資料，所以他自始至終就是中華民國國籍。"],["陳委員玉珍：對嘛！那應該會有相關的資料，每個人不管從戶政或是國籍都有相關的事證嘛……"],["林部長右昌：他就是有國籍啊！他並沒有任何……"],["陳委員玉珍：你說他自始至終沒有喪失……"],["林部長右昌：他並沒有任何喪失或者回復的資料，他沒有申請，當然就沒有。"],["陳委員玉珍：你至少會有他的相關資料，公告給大眾知道嘛！"],["林部長右昌：委員所謂的相關資料指的是？"],["陳委員玉珍：比如我們看到蕭美琴副總統候選人當初自己在媒體上說他只有美國籍啊！他說過他自己只有美國籍啊！"],["林部長右昌：不過那個是……"],["陳委員玉珍：是他自己說的喔！這不是我們說的。"],["林部長右昌：我們依法、我們依法，但是他……"],["陳委員玉珍：但他自己這樣說，到底他原來的中華民國國籍是因為他放棄美國籍以後，就回復中華民國國籍呢？還是什麼情形？我想……"],["林部長右昌：沒有，委員……"],["陳委員玉珍：你們既然查證過了，你們是怎樣認定的？你們應該把這個過程公諸給大眾知道，以減少社會的對立，讓大家都清楚。"],["林部長右昌：委員，我跟你報告，這非常簡單，因為他從來沒有喪失，所以他當然也沒有回復……"],["陳委員玉珍：你的意思是他面對媒體……"],["林部長右昌：所以他並沒有喪失，也沒有回復的資料。"],["陳委員玉珍：所以你的意思是他面對媒體訪問時是說謊的？"],["林部長右昌：不是，我想他有可能……"],["陳委員玉珍：不是？所以他誤會就對了？"],["林部長右昌：對，他有可能是誤會。"],["陳委員玉珍：所以你說我們這個副總候選人的認知能力有問題？"],["林部長右昌：沒有，不能這樣子講。"],["陳委員玉珍：對於自己的國籍都沒辦法認知清楚。"],["林部長右昌：我想並不能這樣子……"],["陳委員玉珍：在年輕的時候都沒辦法認知自己是美國籍還是中華民國籍，或是有雙重國籍……"],["林部長右昌：我想非常清楚，只要是中華民國的國籍，一出生的時候他就具有中華民國國籍。"],["陳委員玉珍：他認為他自己只有美國籍，你們卻幫他認定他有中華民國國籍，那我現在說他的認知錯誤，你就說不是……"],["林部長右昌：委員，我們依法，依法他就是有中華民國國籍。"],["陳委員玉珍：我知道你們依法，我們這樣爭辯的話，事實上會陷入各說各話，所以我希望你們把查到的事證、你們怎麼認定的，或是你們根本沒有做任何查證……"],["林部長右昌：我剛剛已經講得很清楚了……"],["陳委員玉珍：反正你們就認為他爸爸原來就中華民國……"],["林部長右昌：不是、不是。"],["陳委員玉珍：他爸爸原來就是中華民國國籍，也有相關事證吧？你把它公告出來啊！"],["林部長右昌：沒有，委員，他從來沒有申請喪失……"],["陳委員玉珍：我請問你，我說我有中華民國國籍或者我說我沒有中華民國國籍，你們來認定的時候說我本來就有，就憑你說有就有嗎？"],["林部長右昌：不是，我們……"],["陳委員玉珍：一定要有相關事證嘛！"],["林部長右昌：委員你這樣子在邏輯上面可能有一些問題……"],["陳委員玉珍：我邏輯上沒錯！我想請問你，蕭美琴自己說自己只有美國籍，你們卻說他從來就有中華民國國籍，所以我說那表示他當初在受訪的時候說錯，有可能他說錯了，我們也不要說他說謊，他可能說錯嘛！對不對？"],["林部長右昌：委員，我們……"],["陳委員玉珍：有可能是說錯啦！對不對？"],["林部長右昌：那部分我們是就行政機關，我們國籍法……"],["陳委員玉珍：那不然怎樣？他是說錯還是認知錯誤？"],["林部長右昌：我們國籍法的相關規定。"],["陳委員玉珍：他要嘛就是說謊，要嘛他自己認知錯誤，覺得自己只有美國籍嘛！"],["林部長右昌：委員，我覺得這樣子繞圈圈……"],["陳委員玉珍：一個要當我們副總統的人對自己的國籍，這麼年輕的時候都會認知錯誤，這個……所以我說我們這樣繼續爭辯，實際上意義小，也會增加衝突，現在都已經抽籤了嘛！"],["林部長右昌：委員，我覺得沒有什麼衝突，因為這非常清楚……"],["陳委員玉珍：我說你們是不是把這些東西弄清楚，公諸大眾，他父親原來就有中華民國國籍，我舉例，比如說他父親一定有出國嘛！他後來有去美國嘛！一定有中華民國護照什麼這類的東西，他什麼時候取得，時間點寫出來給社會大眾知道，以釋眾疑嘛！讓社會減少衝突啦！"],["林部長右昌：委員，其實這樣子繞圈圈沒有意義。"],["陳委員玉珍：沒有，你們不提供出來，反正今天就是內政部說了算啦！反正也不用提供……"],["林部長右昌：不是，我們依國籍法相關規定去進行查證，查證的結果，他就是有中華民國國籍。"],["陳委員玉珍：查證就沒有什麼資料可以給大家看的啊！"],["林部長右昌：因為他從來沒有喪失，他也沒有申請喪失，他也沒有回復的必要。"],["陳委員玉珍：他有取得中華民國國籍嗎？"],["林部長右昌：他當然有啊！"],["陳委員玉珍：他什麼時候取得？為什麼自己認為沒有呢？他自己說沒有，我也不知道為什麼……"],["林部長右昌：那個時候我不曉得。"],["陳委員玉珍：所以他年輕的時候，心目中只有美國這個國家？"],["林部長右昌：我想委員這樣子說……"],["陳委員玉珍：不是，他自己認為他只有美國籍啊！這是他說的，不是我說的。"],["林部長右昌：委員你個人的意見，尊重！"],["陳委員玉珍：我說我們不用爭執，我說你把查的東西……你不公告也就算了，反正這個就會變成一個……"],["林部長右昌：這個沒有什麼公不公告的問題，我們在上個禮拜的新聞稿裡面已經講得非常清楚。"],["陳委員玉珍：對啊！都是用新聞稿嘛！這就像蔡總統說他有論文什麼都是用新聞稿，東西公布出來嘛！以釋眾疑就好了，沒關係哦！我問下一題，對不起！","來，因為時間有限，你們也不公告，反正就憑一紙公文，以後做什麼事情只要你們的公文就可以了。"],["林部長右昌：委員，這不能這樣子講，我們依國籍法，我們依法行政，他沒有任何回復……"],["陳委員玉珍：你把時間點嘛！時間點……"],["林部長右昌：他沒有申請喪失，他就是中華民國籍啊！這麼簡單，就是這樣子啊！"],["陳委員玉珍：所以我接受的說法就是，蕭美琴以前在接受媒體訪問的時候，他要嘛認知錯誤，要嘛他說謊，就這二個嘛！還是媒體報導錯誤？他要澄清啊！"],["林部長右昌：尊重委員你個人的意見。"],["陳委員玉珍：尊重我的說法，對啦？"],["林部長右昌：尊重你個人的意見。"],["陳委員玉珍：只有二個可能啦！二個可能之一啦！","好，我想請問我們上個月修總統副總統選舉罷免法，這個一起修的，記得嗎？在我們委員會有修這個法，對吧！我想請問部長，總統副總統選舉罷免法裡面有沒有規定二個政黨可以聯合推薦總統副總統？來，誰會回答？就是選舉罷免法第二十二條第一項有沒有規定二個以上政黨可以聯合推薦？答案在這裡，哪一位回答呢？"],["簡簡任視察鈺珒：報告委員……"],["陳委員玉珍：是哪一個單位？還是中選會上來回答？當然這個法令是內政部管的，還是中選會要幫忙回答？這是哪一位？"],["簡簡任視察鈺珒：報告委員，依照總統副總統選舉罷免法規定，是得有二個以上政黨共同推薦。"],["陳委員玉珍：可以嘛？"],["簡簡任視察鈺珒：是。"],["陳委員玉珍：可以嘛！依法是二個政黨可以聯合，也可以共同推薦，對不對？好，請問朱立倫、馬英九、侯友宜、柯文哲那時候討論要聯合推薦總統副總統，這個有什麼問題？為什麼會被告搓圓仔湯？請問以後二個政黨如何聯合推薦？二個政黨在討論到底怎麼樣聯合推薦，這個有什麼問題？"],["林部長右昌：這個就尊重提告人的主張跟訴求。"],["陳委員玉珍：所以你認為應該沒有這樣的問題啦？"],["林部長右昌：提告的人去提……"],["陳委員玉珍：提告的人當然任何人都可以提告……"],["林部長右昌：對，任何人都可以提嘛！"],["陳委員玉珍：對，你認為呢？你對於這個法令的解釋呢？你覺得可不可以聯合推薦？"],["林部長右昌：沒有，我想我們不方便在這邊談論候選人，現在已經……"],["陳委員玉珍：我沒有叫你談論，我要討論這個法令─第二十二條第一項。"],["林部長右昌：現在已經進入提名登記，今天也已經抽籤了。"],["陳委員玉珍：沒有，以後有可能還是會……我們也不是針對這個案子，我們只是說以後也有可能會發生嘛！以後政黨可不可以聯合推薦嘛？"],["林部長右昌：這個我們可能要看他過程裡面的……"],["陳委員玉珍：可不可以一起討論聯合推薦這件事情？"],["林部長右昌：但是他不只是討論所謂聯合推薦，他也許還有其他談論的事情嘛！所以這要看具體的事證跟提告人的訴求。"],["陳委員玉珍：OK，所以你覺得被告發這件事情，如果就你的法律判斷，覺得告發這個事證會成立嗎？"],["林部長右昌：沒有，我不是法官，我沒有辦法去判斷這個。"],["陳委員玉珍：你沒有辦法，反正任何人都有提告權利，我也接受啦！不過濫用司法資源或只是為了創造一些……這次當然是過去了，以後還是有可能發生嘛！我們既然總統副總統選舉罷免法裡面有這一條可以政黨聯合推薦，當然各個主要政黨的主要領袖人物坐在一起討論如何聯合推薦，也不應該是一件犯法的事情嘛！對吧？"],["林部長右昌：我剛剛講過了……"],["陳委員玉珍：我不是針對這個案子，我說以後還有可能會發生。"],["林部長右昌：我剛剛講過，當然他依二個政黨合作的程序去進行，這在法裡面是允許的……"],["陳委員玉珍：是可以允許的，好，謝謝。"],["林部長右昌：但他有沒有其他的事情就不曉得，所以要尊重提告人提告的內容。"],["陳委員玉珍：好，謝謝部長。"],["林部長右昌：謝謝委員。"],["主席：謝謝。接下來請張宏陸委員質詢。"]],"agenda":{"page_end":156,"meet_id":"委員會-10-8-15-13","speakers":["游毓蘭","賴品妤","陳玉珍","張宏陸","王美惠","陳以信","黃世杰","鄭天財Sra 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\"text\": \"所以有沒有人自始就有中華民國國籍或者原來是美國籍或是規劃或是回復的這部分內政部有做實質的審查嗎我想就內政部的部分我們有進行相關的一個查證有實質查證就對了包括過去阿是不是對我們會查他的戶籍的一個資料那戶籍的阿國籍的部分呢也一樣我們會查自己都有做詳查齁好那所以你們手上有相關的這個資料嗎是的很詳細的資料齁那這個部分是不是應該公開提示給這個社會大眾知道\", \"words\": [{\"word\": \"所\", \"start\": 83.752, \"end\": 83.972, \"score\": 0.894}, {\"word\": \"以\", \"start\": 83.972, \"end\": 84.072, \"score\": 0.802}, {\"word\": \"有\", \"start\": 84.072, \"end\": 84.172, \"score\": 0.968}, {\"word\": \"沒\", \"start\": 84.172, \"end\": 84.292, \"score\": 0.684}, {\"word\": \"有\", \"start\": 84.292, \"end\": 84.372, \"score\": 0.69}, {\"word\": \"人\", \"start\": 84.372, \"end\": 84.632, \"score\": 0.934}, {\"word\": \"自\", \"start\": 84.632, \"end\": 84.832, \"score\": 0.86}, {\"word\": \"始\", \"start\": 84.832, \"end\": 85.053, \"score\": 0.824}, {\"word\": \"就\", \"start\": 85.053, \"end\": 85.213, \"score\": 0.931}, {\"word\": \"有\", \"start\": 85.213, \"end\": 85.373, \"score\": 0.924}, {\"word\": \"中\", \"start\": 85.373, \"end\": 85.593, \"score\": 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\"2\"}, {\"word\": \"2\"}, {\"word\": \"條\"}, {\"word\": \"第\", \"start\": 430.634, \"end\": 430.754, \"score\": 0.821}, {\"word\": \"1\"}, {\"word\": \"項\"}, {\"word\": \"有\", \"start\": 430.754, \"end\": 430.875, \"score\": 0.829}, {\"word\": \"沒\", \"start\": 430.875, \"end\": 430.975, \"score\": 0.753}, {\"word\": \"有\", \"start\": 430.975, \"end\": 430.995, \"score\": 0.0}, {\"word\": \"規\"}, {\"word\": \"定\", \"start\": 430.995, \"end\": 431.115, \"score\": 0.852}, {\"word\": \"可\", \"start\": 431.115, \"end\": 431.135, \"score\": 0.0}, {\"word\": \"以\", \"start\": 431.135, \"end\": 431.315, \"score\": 0.744}, {\"word\": \"聯\"}, {\"word\": \"合\", \"start\": 431.315, \"end\": 431.555, \"score\": 0.842}, {\"word\": \"推\", \"start\": 431.555, \"end\": 431.635, \"score\": 0.744}, {\"word\": \"薦\"}, {\"word\": \"兩\"}, {\"word\": \"個\"}, {\"word\": \"以\", \"start\": 431.635, \"end\": 431.675, \"score\": 0.282}, {\"word\": \"上\", \"start\": 431.675, \"end\": 431.835, \"score\": 0.853}, {\"word\": \"的\", \"start\": 431.835, \"end\": 431.975, \"score\": 0.844}, {\"word\": \"政\", \"start\": 431.975, \"end\": 432.075, \"score\": 0.708}, {\"word\": \"黨\"}, {\"word\": \"哪\", \"start\": 432.075, \"end\": 432.336, \"score\": 0.887}, {\"word\": \"一\", \"start\": 432.336, \"end\": 432.416, \"score\": 0.745}, {\"word\": \"位\", \"start\": 432.416, \"end\": 432.436, \"score\": 0.0}, {\"word\": \"回\", \"start\": 432.436, \"end\": 432.556, \"score\": 0.821}, {\"word\": \"答\", \"start\": 432.556, \"end\": 432.576, \"score\": 0.0}]}, {\"start\": 449.179, \"end\": 471.648, \"text\": \"這是哪一個單位?還是中選會要這樣回答?當然這個法令是內政部管的還是中選會要幫忙回答?報告委員,依照總統選舉、副總統選舉罷免法規定是得有兩個以上政黨共同推薦可以嗎?可以嗎?依法是兩個政黨可以聯合、也可以共同推薦嘛對不對?好,那請問這個朱立倫、馬英格、侯偉克、問責那時候討論要聯合推薦總統、副總統這個有什麼問題?\", \"words\": [{\"word\": \"這\"}, {\"word\": \"是\", \"start\": 449.179, \"end\": 449.239, \"score\": 0.673}, {\"word\": \"哪\", \"start\": 449.239, \"end\": 449.359, \"score\": 0.827}, {\"word\": \"一\", \"start\": 449.359, \"end\": 449.419, \"score\": 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{\"word\": \"員\"}, {\"word\": \",\"}, {\"word\": \"依\", \"start\": 455.922, \"end\": 456.002, \"score\": 0.804}, {\"word\": \"照\", \"start\": 456.002, \"end\": 457.182, \"score\": 0.913}, {\"word\": \"總\"}, {\"word\": \"統\"}, {\"word\": \"選\"}, {\"word\": \"舉\"}, {\"word\": \"、\"}, {\"word\": \"副\", \"start\": 457.182, \"end\": 457.862, \"score\": 0.832}, {\"word\": \"總\"}, {\"word\": \"統\"}, {\"word\": \"選\"}, {\"word\": \"舉\"}, {\"word\": \"罷\"}, {\"word\": \"免\", \"start\": 457.862, \"end\": 458.002, \"score\": 0.86}, {\"word\": \"法\", \"start\": 458.002, \"end\": 458.403, \"score\": 0.949}, {\"word\": \"規\"}, {\"word\": \"定\", \"start\": 458.403, \"end\": 458.863, \"score\": 0.955}, {\"word\": \"是\", \"start\": 458.863, \"end\": 459.023, \"score\": 0.986}, {\"word\": \"得\", \"start\": 459.023, \"end\": 459.163, \"score\": 0.989}, {\"word\": \"有\", \"start\": 459.163, \"end\": 459.803, \"score\": 0.933}, {\"word\": \"兩\"}, {\"word\": \"個\"}, {\"word\": \"以\", \"start\": 459.803, 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{\"word\": \"對\"}, {\"word\": \"不\", \"start\": 467.706, \"end\": 468.466, \"score\": 0.935}, {\"word\": \"對\"}, {\"word\": \"?\"}, {\"word\": \"好\", \"start\": 468.466, \"end\": 469.167, \"score\": 0.953}, {\"word\": \",\"}, {\"word\": \"那\", \"start\": 469.167, \"end\": 469.267, \"score\": 0.985}, {\"word\": \"請\"}, {\"word\": \"問\"}, {\"word\": \"這\"}, {\"word\": \"個\"}, {\"word\": \"朱\", \"start\": 469.267, \"end\": 469.287, \"score\": 0.0}, {\"word\": \"立\", \"start\": 469.287, \"end\": 469.847, \"score\": 0.96}, {\"word\": \"倫\"}, {\"word\": \"、\"}, {\"word\": \"馬\"}, {\"word\": \"英\", \"start\": 469.847, \"end\": 469.967, \"score\": 0.809}, {\"word\": \"格\", \"start\": 469.967, \"end\": 470.087, \"score\": 0.832}, {\"word\": \"、\"}, {\"word\": \"侯\", \"start\": 470.087, \"end\": 470.187, \"score\": 0.799}, {\"word\": \"偉\"}, {\"word\": \"克\", \"start\": 470.187, \"end\": 470.267, \"score\": 0.747}, {\"word\": \"、\"}, {\"word\": \"問\"}, {\"word\": \"責\"}, {\"word\": \"那\", 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00:00:56,940\n當初在討論這些這個有關什麼恢復國籍啊什麼雙重國籍啊是不是或者是規劃或回復這個部分的時候這個你們都有相關的資料吧我們有向內政部來函查內政部也非常清楚的告訴我們六組的候選人三組候選人六個\n\n4\n00:00:57,760 --> 00:01:18,773\n候選人裡面沒有任何一個有回復國籍所以你們是按照內政部的公文是吧那當然因為他是主任他有沒有檢附相關的施政沒有嗎就只有公文嗎他告訴我們結果所以你們是按照內政部的公文告訴大眾說這個都符合資格所以是內政部告訴你們這是非常明顯而且是確定是內政部說那我們請內政部\n\n5\n00:01:23,752 --> 00:01:48,902\n所以有沒有人自始就有中華民國國籍或者原來是美國籍或是規劃或是回復的這部分內政部有做實質的審查嗎我想就內政部的部分我們有進行相關的一個查證有實質查證就對了包括過去阿是不是對我們會查他的戶籍的一個資料那戶籍的阿國籍的部分呢也一樣我們會查自己都有做詳查齁好那所以你們手上有相關的這個資料嗎是的很詳細的資料齁那這個部分是不是應該公開提示給這個社會大眾知道\n\n6\n00:01:53,044 --> 00:02:11,187\n委員會想跟你報告一下第一個因為不管是這個蕭女士的父親或者是他個人他從來都沒有上司國籍的一個資料所以他自始至終就是中華民國國籍對嘛那應該會有相關那每個人不管從戶政啊或是國籍或者他有父親有國籍的相關都有相關事證嘛\n\n7\n00:02:12,208 --> 00:02:36,382\n他就是他就是他就是國籍啊他並沒有任何他並沒有任何上司或者回覆的這個資料那你至少會有他的相關的資料公告給大眾知道嘛我原理所謂相關資料指的是比如說我們看到的因為蕭美琴這個現在副總統候選人他當初在自己在媒體上說他只有美國籍啊他說過他自己只有美國籍啊\n\n8\n00:02:37,262 --> 00:02:52,234\n不過那個是我們是必須他自己說的這個我們依法對所以依法對那他自己這樣說的話你們那他到底原來的中華民國國籍是因為他放棄美國籍後他就回復了這個中華民國國籍呢還是什麼情形我想\n\n9\n00:02:53,696 --> 00:03:12,794\n你們既然查正確了你們是怎麼樣認定你們就應該把這個過程公諸我是說公諸給大眾知道這個減少社會的這個對立啦大家都清楚嘛那委員會可以報告這個非常簡單因為他從來沒有喪失所以當然他也沒有回復所以他面對媒體他面對媒體訪問的時候所以你的意思是他面對媒體訪問他是說謊的\n\n10\n00:03:16,778 --> 00:03:42,938\n不是,我想他有可能所以他誤會了對,他有可能是誤會所以你說我們這個副總候選人他的認知能力有問題對自己的國籍都沒有辦法認知清楚在年輕的時候都沒有辦法認知自己是美國籍還是中華民國籍我想非常清楚只要是中華民國的國籍一出生的時候他就具有他認為他自己是只有美國籍你們卻幫他認定說他有中華民國國籍那我現在說他的認知錯誤你就說不是\n\n11\n00:03:43,838 --> 00:04:04,554\n委員我們依法我們依法他就是原住民國所以我們這樣爭辯的話事實上都會陷入各說各話所以我希望你們就把你們查到的事證你們怎麼認定的我剛才已經講得很清楚你們沒有做任何查證反正你們就認為說他爸爸原來就是中華民國不是不是他爸爸原來就是中華民國也有相關事證吧你把它公告出來啊委員\n\n12\n00:04:07,850 --> 00:04:22,838\n他從來沒有申請上司那我請問你我說我有中華民國我說我沒有中華民國國籍那你們來認定的時候你們就說你本來就有你說有就有嗎一定有相關事證委員你這樣子邏輯上面有一些\n\n13\n00:04:24,759 --> 00:04:35,044\n你們很多人這樣沒錯因為來來我想請問你蕭美琴自己說自己只有美國籍你們卻說她從來就有中華民國國籍所以我說那表示她當初在說謊的她在受訪的時候說錯嘛有可能她說錯啦我們也不要說她說謊她可能說錯嘛對不對\n\n14\n00:04:41,107 --> 00:04:56,238\n有可能是說錯啦對不對那部分我想我們是就行政機關我們國際法的我們國際法的相關的規定他要麼就說謊要麼他自己認知錯誤覺得自己只有美國籍嘛委員我覺得這樣子道歉很好對自己的國籍這麼年輕的時候都會認知錯誤這個\n\n15\n00:05:00,141 --> 00:05:07,067\n所以我說我們這樣繼續爭辯實際上意義小也會增加衝突那現在會有錢錢了嘛我說是不是你們把這些東西弄清楚公諸大眾嘛他父親也要去有中華民國國籍比如說我舉例比如他父親一定有出國嘛他後來有去美國嘛一定有中華民國護照啊什麼這類的東西啊他什麼時候取得什麼時間點寫出來給社會大眾知道\n\n16\n00:05:23,021 --> 00:05:48,662\n以恃眾疑﹑這個社會檢討這個寵物﹑其實這樣子繞圈圈沒有意義今天就是內政部說了算反正也不是提供我們依國籍法相關的規定去進行查證查證的結果他就是有中華民國因為他從來沒有上司他也沒有申請上司他有取得中華民國國籍嗎他當然有啊他有什麼時候取得為什麼自己認為沒有呢\n\n17\n00:05:49,930 --> 00:05:50,771\n委員會主任委員會主任委員會主任委員會主任\n\n18\n00:06:07,810 --> 00:06:33,952\n有什麼公布公告的問題我們在上個禮拜的新聞稿裡面已經講了非常多都是用新聞稿嘛這就像蔡總統說他有有那個什麼論文什麼都是用新聞稿東西公布出來嘛以示眾議就好了沒關係喔我問下一題對不起喔來因為時間有限喔那個來你們也不公告就反而憑一紙公文以後做什麼事情只要你們的公文就可以了委員這個不能這樣子講我們依國行法我們依法行政他沒有任何回覆\n\n19\n00:06:35,133 --> 00:07:03,322\n時間點嗎?他沒有申請上司他就是中華民國籍啊這麼簡單就是這樣子啊那我接受你的說法就是說蕭美琴在以前在接受媒體訪問的時候她要麼認知錯誤要麼她說謊嘛就兩個嘛還是她還是媒體報道錯誤就尊重委員你個人的意見尊重你個人的意見只有兩個可能啦兩個可能之一啦好來我想請問喔這個我們的我們上次不是上次修這個總統副總統選舉罷免法吧這個一起修的嘛記得吧在我們這裡委員會有修這個法\n\n20\n00:07:04,769 --> 00:07:12,576\n我想請問這個總統副總統選舉發言法有沒有規定裡面有沒有規定有兩個政黨可以聯合推薦總統副總統誰會回答就是選舉發言法第22條第1項有沒有規定可以聯合推薦兩個以上的政黨哪一位回答\n\n21\n00:07:29,179 --> 00:07:51,648\n這是哪一個單位?還是中選會要這樣回答?當然這個法令是內政部管的還是中選會要幫忙回答?報告委員,依照總統選舉、副總統選舉罷免法規定是得有兩個以上政黨共同推薦可以嗎?可以嗎?依法是兩個政黨可以聯合、也可以共同推薦嘛對不對?好,那請問這個朱立倫、馬英格、侯偉克、問責那時候討論要聯合推薦總統、副總統這個有什麼問題?\n\n22\n00:07:58,173 --> 00:08:00,843\n為什麼會被告什麼縮延載趟\n\n23\n00:08:03,956 --> 00:08:25,831\n那請問以後兩個政黨如何聯合推薦?兩個政黨在討論說到底怎麼樣聯合推薦?這個有什麼問題?這個就尊重提告的人他的一個主張跟訴求所以說你認為應該沒有這樣的問題了齁?那個提告的人提告的人他當然任何人都可以提告任何人都可以提嘛你認為呢?你對這個法律的解釋呢?你覺得可不可以聯合推薦?我想我們不方便在這邊談論這個候選人他現在已經我現在要討論這個法律現在已經\n\n24\n00:08:30,314 --> 00:08:57,929\n現在已經進入到那個沒有以後還是有可能今天已經抽籤了我們也不是針對這個案子我們只是說以後有可能會發生嗎這個我們可能要看他的這個我們可能要看他過程裡面看他過程裡面的可不可以在一起討論說聯合推薦這件事情嗎但是他不只是討論這個所謂聯合推薦他也許還有其他的這些談論的事情嘛所以這要看他的具體的事證跟提告人他的訴求OK\n\n25\n00:08:59,330 --> 00:09:27,605\n所以說你覺得這個被告發這件事情你如果就你的這個法律判斷你覺得這個告發這個施政會成立嗎沒有我不是法官我沒有辦法你不要吧反正你任何人都有提告權我也接受不過濫用司法資源或只是為了創造一些這當然是這一次當然是過去以後還是有可能發生我們既然總統副總統選舉辦法一定有這一條可以政黨聯合推薦當然各個主要政黨的主要的領袖人物坐在一起討論如何聯合推薦也不應該是一件犯法的事情對吧\n\n26\n00:09:33,087 --> 00:09:45,238\n我剛剛講過當然他依兩個政黨合作的一個程序去進行在法裡面是允許的但他有沒有其他的事情就不曉得所以要尊重提告人提告的那個內容\n\n","tsv":"start\tend\ttext\n712\t3122\t議會中選會李卓偉請\n10339\t31478\t委員好今天這個總統副總統號誌已經抽定那之前在沸沸揚揚討論這個總統副總統候選人資格審定的時候就是想請教你們那時候說審定合格嘛三組候選人都審定合格那請問三組候選人你們的這個審定呢你們的審查是進行這個形式上的審查還是實質上的審查\n35541\t56940\t當初在討論這些這個有關什麼恢復國籍啊什麼雙重國籍啊是不是或者是規劃或回復這個部分的時候這個你們都有相關的資料吧我們有向內政部來函查內政部也非常清楚的告訴我們六組的候選人三組候選人六個\n57760\t78773\t候選人裡面沒有任何一個有回復國籍所以你們是按照內政部的公文是吧那當然因為他是主任他有沒有檢附相關的施政沒有嗎就只有公文嗎他告訴我們結果所以你們是按照內政部的公文告訴大眾說這個都符合資格所以是內政部告訴你們這是非常明顯而且是確定是內政部說那我們請內政部\n83752\t108902\t所以有沒有人自始就有中華民國國籍或者原來是美國籍或是規劃或是回復的這部分內政部有做實質的審查嗎我想就內政部的部分我們有進行相關的一個查證有實質查證就對了包括過去阿是不是對我們會查他的戶籍的一個資料那戶籍的阿國籍的部分呢也一樣我們會查自己都有做詳查齁好那所以你們手上有相關的這個資料嗎是的很詳細的資料齁那這個部分是不是應該公開提示給這個社會大眾知道\n113044\t131187\t委員會想跟你報告一下第一個因為不管是這個蕭女士的父親或者是他個人他從來都沒有上司國籍的一個資料所以他自始至終就是中華民國國籍對嘛那應該會有相關那每個人不管從戶政啊或是國籍或者他有父親有國籍的相關都有相關事證嘛\n132208\t156382\t他就是他就是他就是國籍啊他並沒有任何他並沒有任何上司或者回覆的這個資料那你至少會有他的相關的資料公告給大眾知道嘛我原理所謂相關資料指的是比如說我們看到的因為蕭美琴這個現在副總統候選人他當初在自己在媒體上說他只有美國籍啊他說過他自己只有美國籍啊\n157262\t172234\t不過那個是我們是必須他自己說的這個我們依法對所以依法對那他自己這樣說的話你們那他到底原來的中華民國國籍是因為他放棄美國籍後他就回復了這個中華民國國籍呢還是什麼情形我想\n173696\t192794\t你們既然查正確了你們是怎麼樣認定你們就應該把這個過程公諸我是說公諸給大眾知道這個減少社會的這個對立啦大家都清楚嘛那委員會可以報告這個非常簡單因為他從來沒有喪失所以當然他也沒有回復所以他面對媒體他面對媒體訪問的時候所以你的意思是他面對媒體訪問他是說謊的\n196778\t222938\t不是,我想他有可能所以他誤會了對,他有可能是誤會所以你說我們這個副總候選人他的認知能力有問題對自己的國籍都沒有辦法認知清楚在年輕的時候都沒有辦法認知自己是美國籍還是中華民國籍我想非常清楚只要是中華民國的國籍一出生的時候他就具有他認為他自己是只有美國籍你們卻幫他認定說他有中華民國國籍那我現在說他的認知錯誤你就說不是\n223838\t244554\t委員我們依法我們依法他就是原住民國所以我們這樣爭辯的話事實上都會陷入各說各話所以我希望你們就把你們查到的事證你們怎麼認定的我剛才已經講得很清楚你們沒有做任何查證反正你們就認為說他爸爸原來就是中華民國不是不是他爸爸原來就是中華民國也有相關事證吧你把它公告出來啊委員\n247850\t262838\t他從來沒有申請上司那我請問你我說我有中華民國我說我沒有中華民國國籍那你們來認定的時候你們就說你本來就有你說有就有嗎一定有相關事證委員你這樣子邏輯上面有一些\n264759\t275044\t你們很多人這樣沒錯因為來來我想請問你蕭美琴自己說自己只有美國籍你們卻說她從來就有中華民國國籍所以我說那表示她當初在說謊的她在受訪的時候說錯嘛有可能她說錯啦我們也不要說她說謊她可能說錯嘛對不對\n281107\t296238\t有可能是說錯啦對不對那部分我想我們是就行政機關我們國際法的我們國際法的相關的規定他要麼就說謊要麼他自己認知錯誤覺得自己只有美國籍嘛委員我覺得這樣子道歉很好對自己的國籍這麼年輕的時候都會認知錯誤這個\n300141\t307067\t所以我說我們這樣繼續爭辯實際上意義小 也會增加衝突那現在會有錢錢了嘛我說是不是你們把這些東西弄清楚公諸大眾嘛他父親也要去有中華民國國籍 比如說我舉例 比如他父親一定有出國嘛 他後來有去美國嘛一定有中華民國護照啊 什麼這類的東西啊他什麼時候取得什麼時間點寫出來給社會大眾知道\n323021\t348662\t以恃眾疑﹑這個社會檢討這個寵物﹑其實這樣子繞圈圈沒有意義今天就是內政部說了算反正也不是提供我們依國籍法相關的規定去進行查證查證的結果他就是有中華民國因為他從來沒有上司他也沒有申請上司他有取得中華民國國籍嗎他當然有啊他有什麼時候取得為什麼自己認為沒有呢\n349930\t350771\t委員會主任委員會主任委員會主任委員會主任\n367810\t393952\t有什麼公布公告的問題我們在上個禮拜的新聞稿裡面已經講了非常多都是用新聞稿嘛這就像蔡總統說他有有那個什麼論文什麼都是用新聞稿東西公布出來嘛以示眾議就好了沒關係喔我問下一題對不起喔來因為時間有限喔那個來你們也不公告就反而憑一紙公文以後做什麼事情只要你們的公文就可以了委員這個不能這樣子講我們依國行法我們依法行政他沒有任何回覆\n395133\t423322\t時間點嗎?他沒有申請上司他就是中華民國籍啊這麼簡單就是這樣子啊那我接受你的說法就是說蕭美琴在以前在接受媒體訪問的時候她要麼認知錯誤要麼她說謊嘛就兩個嘛還是她還是媒體報道錯誤就尊重委員你個人的意見尊重你個人的意見只有兩個可能啦兩個可能之一啦好來我想請問喔這個我們的我們上次不是上次修這個總統副總統選舉罷免法吧這個一起修的嘛記得吧在我們這裡委員會有修這個法\n424769\t432576\t我想請問這個總統副總統選舉發言法有沒有規定裡面有沒有規定有兩個政黨可以聯合推薦總統副總統誰會回答就是選舉發言法第22條第1項有沒有規定可以聯合推薦兩個以上的政黨哪一位回答\n449179\t471648\t這是哪一個單位?還是中選會要這樣回答?當然這個法令是內政部管的還是中選會要幫忙回答?報告委員,依照總統選舉、副總統選舉罷免法規定是得有兩個以上政黨共同推薦可以嗎?可以嗎?依法是兩個政黨可以聯合、也可以共同推薦嘛對不對?好,那請問這個朱立倫、馬英格、侯偉克、問責那時候討論要聯合推薦總統、副總統這個有什麼問題?\n478173\t480843\t為什麼會被告什麼縮延載趟\n483956\t505831\t那請問以後兩個政黨如何聯合推薦?兩個政黨在討論說到底怎麼樣聯合推薦?這個有什麼問題?這個就尊重提告的人他的一個主張跟訴求所以說你認為應該沒有這樣的問題了齁?那個提告的人提告的人他當然任何人都可以提告任何人都可以提嘛你認為呢?你對這個法律的解釋呢?你覺得可不可以聯合推薦?我想我們不方便在這邊談論這個候選人他現在已經我現在要討論這個法律現在已經\n510314\t537929\t現在已經進入到那個沒有以後還是有可能今天已經抽籤了我們也不是針對這個案子我們只是說以後有可能會發生嗎這個我們可能要看他的這個我們可能要看他過程裡面看他過程裡面的可不可以在一起討論說聯合推薦這件事情嗎但是他不只是討論這個所謂聯合推薦他也許還有其他的這些談論的事情嘛所以這要看他的具體的事證跟提告人他的訴求OK\n539330\t567605\t所以說你覺得這個被告發這件事情你如果就你的這個法律判斷你覺得這個告發這個施政會成立嗎沒有我不是法官我沒有辦法你不要吧反正你任何人都有提告權我也接受不過濫用司法資源或只是為了創造一些這當然是這一次當然是過去以後還是有可能發生我們既然總統副總統選舉辦法一定有這一條可以政黨聯合推薦當然各個主要政黨的主要的領袖人物坐在一起討論如何聯合推薦也不應該是一件犯法的事情對吧\n573087\t585238\t我剛剛講過當然他依兩個政黨合作的一個程序去進行在法裡面是允許的但他有沒有其他的事情就不曉得所以要尊重提告人提告的那個內容\n","txt":"議會中選會李卓偉請\n委員好今天這個總統副總統號誌已經抽定那之前在沸沸揚揚討論這個總統副總統候選人資格審定的時候就是想請教你們那時候說審定合格嘛三組候選人都審定合格那請問三組候選人你們的這個審定呢你們的審查是進行這個形式上的審查還是實質上的審查\n當初在討論這些這個有關什麼恢復國籍啊什麼雙重國籍啊是不是或者是規劃或回復這個部分的時候這個你們都有相關的資料吧我們有向內政部來函查內政部也非常清楚的告訴我們六組的候選人三組候選人六個\n候選人裡面沒有任何一個有回復國籍所以你們是按照內政部的公文是吧那當然因為他是主任他有沒有檢附相關的施政沒有嗎就只有公文嗎他告訴我們結果所以你們是按照內政部的公文告訴大眾說這個都符合資格所以是內政部告訴你們這是非常明顯而且是確定是內政部說那我們請內政部\n所以有沒有人自始就有中華民國國籍或者原來是美國籍或是規劃或是回復的這部分內政部有做實質的審查嗎我想就內政部的部分我們有進行相關的一個查證有實質查證就對了包括過去阿是不是對我們會查他的戶籍的一個資料那戶籍的阿國籍的部分呢也一樣我們會查自己都有做詳查齁好那所以你們手上有相關的這個資料嗎是的很詳細的資料齁那這個部分是不是應該公開提示給這個社會大眾知道\n委員會想跟你報告一下第一個因為不管是這個蕭女士的父親或者是他個人他從來都沒有上司國籍的一個資料所以他自始至終就是中華民國國籍對嘛那應該會有相關那每個人不管從戶政啊或是國籍或者他有父親有國籍的相關都有相關事證嘛\n他就是他就是他就是國籍啊他並沒有任何他並沒有任何上司或者回覆的這個資料那你至少會有他的相關的資料公告給大眾知道嘛我原理所謂相關資料指的是比如說我們看到的因為蕭美琴這個現在副總統候選人他當初在自己在媒體上說他只有美國籍啊他說過他自己只有美國籍啊\n不過那個是我們是必須他自己說的這個我們依法對所以依法對那他自己這樣說的話你們那他到底原來的中華民國國籍是因為他放棄美國籍後他就回復了這個中華民國國籍呢還是什麼情形我想\n你們既然查正確了你們是怎麼樣認定你們就應該把這個過程公諸我是說公諸給大眾知道這個減少社會的這個對立啦大家都清楚嘛那委員會可以報告這個非常簡單因為他從來沒有喪失所以當然他也沒有回復所以他面對媒體他面對媒體訪問的時候所以你的意思是他面對媒體訪問他是說謊的\n不是,我想他有可能所以他誤會了對,他有可能是誤會所以你說我們這個副總候選人他的認知能力有問題對自己的國籍都沒有辦法認知清楚在年輕的時候都沒有辦法認知自己是美國籍還是中華民國籍我想非常清楚只要是中華民國的國籍一出生的時候他就具有他認為他自己是只有美國籍你們卻幫他認定說他有中華民國國籍那我現在說他的認知錯誤你就說不是\n委員我們依法我們依法他就是原住民國所以我們這樣爭辯的話事實上都會陷入各說各話所以我希望你們就把你們查到的事證你們怎麼認定的我剛才已經講得很清楚你們沒有做任何查證反正你們就認為說他爸爸原來就是中華民國不是不是他爸爸原來就是中華民國也有相關事證吧你把它公告出來啊委員\n他從來沒有申請上司那我請問你我說我有中華民國我說我沒有中華民國國籍那你們來認定的時候你們就說你本來就有你說有就有嗎一定有相關事證委員你這樣子邏輯上面有一些\n你們很多人這樣沒錯因為來來我想請問你蕭美琴自己說自己只有美國籍你們卻說她從來就有中華民國國籍所以我說那表示她當初在說謊的她在受訪的時候說錯嘛有可能她說錯啦我們也不要說她說謊她可能說錯嘛對不對\n有可能是說錯啦對不對那部分我想我們是就行政機關我們國際法的我們國際法的相關的規定他要麼就說謊要麼他自己認知錯誤覺得自己只有美國籍嘛委員我覺得這樣子道歉很好對自己的國籍這麼年輕的時候都會認知錯誤這個\n所以我說我們這樣繼續爭辯實際上意義小 也會增加衝突那現在會有錢錢了嘛我說是不是你們把這些東西弄清楚公諸大眾嘛他父親也要去有中華民國國籍 比如說我舉例 比如他父親一定有出國嘛 他後來有去美國嘛一定有中華民國護照啊 什麼這類的東西啊他什麼時候取得什麼時間點寫出來給社會大眾知道\n以恃眾疑﹑這個社會檢討這個寵物﹑其實這樣子繞圈圈沒有意義今天就是內政部說了算反正也不是提供我們依國籍法相關的規定去進行查證查證的結果他就是有中華民國因為他從來沒有上司他也沒有申請上司他有取得中華民國國籍嗎他當然有啊他有什麼時候取得為什麼自己認為沒有呢\n委員會主任委員會主任委員會主任委員會主任\n有什麼公布公告的問題我們在上個禮拜的新聞稿裡面已經講了非常多都是用新聞稿嘛這就像蔡總統說他有有那個什麼論文什麼都是用新聞稿東西公布出來嘛以示眾議就好了沒關係喔我問下一題對不起喔來因為時間有限喔那個來你們也不公告就反而憑一紙公文以後做什麼事情只要你們的公文就可以了委員這個不能這樣子講我們依國行法我們依法行政他沒有任何回覆\n時間點嗎?他沒有申請上司他就是中華民國籍啊這麼簡單就是這樣子啊那我接受你的說法就是說蕭美琴在以前在接受媒體訪問的時候她要麼認知錯誤要麼她說謊嘛就兩個嘛還是她還是媒體報道錯誤就尊重委員你個人的意見尊重你個人的意見只有兩個可能啦兩個可能之一啦好來我想請問喔這個我們的我們上次不是上次修這個總統副總統選舉罷免法吧這個一起修的嘛記得吧在我們這裡委員會有修這個法\n我想請問這個總統副總統選舉發言法有沒有規定裡面有沒有規定有兩個政黨可以聯合推薦總統副總統誰會回答就是選舉發言法第22條第1項有沒有規定可以聯合推薦兩個以上的政黨哪一位回答\n這是哪一個單位?還是中選會要這樣回答?當然這個法令是內政部管的還是中選會要幫忙回答?報告委員,依照總統選舉、副總統選舉罷免法規定是得有兩個以上政黨共同推薦可以嗎?可以嗎?依法是兩個政黨可以聯合、也可以共同推薦嘛對不對?好,那請問這個朱立倫、馬英格、侯偉克、問責那時候討論要聯合推薦總統、副總統這個有什麼問題?\n為什麼會被告什麼縮延載趟\n那請問以後兩個政黨如何聯合推薦?兩個政黨在討論說到底怎麼樣聯合推薦?這個有什麼問題?這個就尊重提告的人他的一個主張跟訴求所以說你認為應該沒有這樣的問題了齁?那個提告的人提告的人他當然任何人都可以提告任何人都可以提嘛你認為呢?你對這個法律的解釋呢?你覺得可不可以聯合推薦?我想我們不方便在這邊談論這個候選人他現在已經我現在要討論這個法律現在已經\n現在已經進入到那個沒有以後還是有可能今天已經抽籤了我們也不是針對這個案子我們只是說以後有可能會發生嗎這個我們可能要看他的這個我們可能要看他過程裡面看他過程裡面的可不可以在一起討論說聯合推薦這件事情嗎但是他不只是討論這個所謂聯合推薦他也許還有其他的這些談論的事情嘛所以這要看他的具體的事證跟提告人他的訴求OK\n所以說你覺得這個被告發這件事情你如果就你的這個法律判斷你覺得這個告發這個施政會成立嗎沒有我不是法官我沒有辦法你不要吧反正你任何人都有提告權我也接受不過濫用司法資源或只是為了創造一些這當然是這一次當然是過去以後還是有可能發生我們既然總統副總統選舉辦法一定有這一條可以政黨聯合推薦當然各個主要政黨的主要的領袖人物坐在一起討論如何聯合推薦也不應該是一件犯法的事情對吧\n我剛剛講過當然他依兩個政黨合作的一個程序去進行在法裡面是允許的但他有沒有其他的事情就不曉得所以要尊重提告人提告的那個內容\n","vtt":"WEBVTT\n\n00:00.712 --> 00:03.122\n議會中選會李卓偉請\n\n00:10.339 --> 00:31.478\n委員好今天這個總統副總統號誌已經抽定那之前在沸沸揚揚討論這個總統副總統候選人資格審定的時候就是想請教你們那時候說審定合格嘛三組候選人都審定合格那請問三組候選人你們的這個審定呢你們的審查是進行這個形式上的審查還是實質上的審查\n\n00:35.541 --> 00:56.940\n當初在討論這些這個有關什麼恢復國籍啊什麼雙重國籍啊是不是或者是規劃或回復這個部分的時候這個你們都有相關的資料吧我們有向內政部來函查內政部也非常清楚的告訴我們六組的候選人三組候選人六個\n\n00:57.760 --> 01:18.773\n候選人裡面沒有任何一個有回復國籍所以你們是按照內政部的公文是吧那當然因為他是主任他有沒有檢附相關的施政沒有嗎就只有公文嗎他告訴我們結果所以你們是按照內政部的公文告訴大眾說這個都符合資格所以是內政部告訴你們這是非常明顯而且是確定是內政部說那我們請內政部\n\n01:23.752 --> 01:48.902\n所以有沒有人自始就有中華民國國籍或者原來是美國籍或是規劃或是回復的這部分內政部有做實質的審查嗎我想就內政部的部分我們有進行相關的一個查證有實質查證就對了包括過去阿是不是對我們會查他的戶籍的一個資料那戶籍的阿國籍的部分呢也一樣我們會查自己都有做詳查齁好那所以你們手上有相關的這個資料嗎是的很詳細的資料齁那這個部分是不是應該公開提示給這個社會大眾知道\n\n01:53.044 --> 02:11.187\n委員會想跟你報告一下第一個因為不管是這個蕭女士的父親或者是他個人他從來都沒有上司國籍的一個資料所以他自始至終就是中華民國國籍對嘛那應該會有相關那每個人不管從戶政啊或是國籍或者他有父親有國籍的相關都有相關事證嘛\n\n02:12.208 --> 02:36.382\n他就是他就是他就是國籍啊他並沒有任何他並沒有任何上司或者回覆的這個資料那你至少會有他的相關的資料公告給大眾知道嘛我原理所謂相關資料指的是比如說我們看到的因為蕭美琴這個現在副總統候選人他當初在自己在媒體上說他只有美國籍啊他說過他自己只有美國籍啊\n\n02:37.262 --> 02:52.234\n不過那個是我們是必須他自己說的這個我們依法對所以依法對那他自己這樣說的話你們那他到底原來的中華民國國籍是因為他放棄美國籍後他就回復了這個中華民國國籍呢還是什麼情形我想\n\n02:53.696 --> 03:12.794\n你們既然查正確了你們是怎麼樣認定你們就應該把這個過程公諸我是說公諸給大眾知道這個減少社會的這個對立啦大家都清楚嘛那委員會可以報告這個非常簡單因為他從來沒有喪失所以當然他也沒有回復所以他面對媒體他面對媒體訪問的時候所以你的意思是他面對媒體訪問他是說謊的\n\n03:16.778 --> 03:42.938\n不是,我想他有可能所以他誤會了對,他有可能是誤會所以你說我們這個副總候選人他的認知能力有問題對自己的國籍都沒有辦法認知清楚在年輕的時候都沒有辦法認知自己是美國籍還是中華民國籍我想非常清楚只要是中華民國的國籍一出生的時候他就具有他認為他自己是只有美國籍你們卻幫他認定說他有中華民國國籍那我現在說他的認知錯誤你就說不是\n\n03:43.838 --> 04:04.554\n委員我們依法我們依法他就是原住民國所以我們這樣爭辯的話事實上都會陷入各說各話所以我希望你們就把你們查到的事證你們怎麼認定的我剛才已經講得很清楚你們沒有做任何查證反正你們就認為說他爸爸原來就是中華民國不是不是他爸爸原來就是中華民國也有相關事證吧你把它公告出來啊委員\n\n04:07.850 --> 04:22.838\n他從來沒有申請上司那我請問你我說我有中華民國我說我沒有中華民國國籍那你們來認定的時候你們就說你本來就有你說有就有嗎一定有相關事證委員你這樣子邏輯上面有一些\n\n04:24.759 --> 04:35.044\n你們很多人這樣沒錯因為來來我想請問你蕭美琴自己說自己只有美國籍你們卻說她從來就有中華民國國籍所以我說那表示她當初在說謊的她在受訪的時候說錯嘛有可能她說錯啦我們也不要說她說謊她可能說錯嘛對不對\n\n04:41.107 --> 04:56.238\n有可能是說錯啦對不對那部分我想我們是就行政機關我們國際法的我們國際法的相關的規定他要麼就說謊要麼他自己認知錯誤覺得自己只有美國籍嘛委員我覺得這樣子道歉很好對自己的國籍這麼年輕的時候都會認知錯誤這個\n\n05:00.141 --> 05:07.067\n所以我說我們這樣繼續爭辯實際上意義小也會增加衝突那現在會有錢錢了嘛我說是不是你們把這些東西弄清楚公諸大眾嘛他父親也要去有中華民國國籍比如說我舉例比如他父親一定有出國嘛他後來有去美國嘛一定有中華民國護照啊什麼這類的東西啊他什麼時候取得什麼時間點寫出來給社會大眾知道\n\n05:23.021 --> 05:48.662\n以恃眾疑﹑這個社會檢討這個寵物﹑其實這樣子繞圈圈沒有意義今天就是內政部說了算反正也不是提供我們依國籍法相關的規定去進行查證查證的結果他就是有中華民國因為他從來沒有上司他也沒有申請上司他有取得中華民國國籍嗎他當然有啊他有什麼時候取得為什麼自己認為沒有呢\n\n05:49.930 --> 05:50.771\n委員會主任委員會主任委員會主任委員會主任\n\n06:07.810 --> 06:33.952\n有什麼公布公告的問題我們在上個禮拜的新聞稿裡面已經講了非常多都是用新聞稿嘛這就像蔡總統說他有有那個什麼論文什麼都是用新聞稿東西公布出來嘛以示眾議就好了沒關係喔我問下一題對不起喔來因為時間有限喔那個來你們也不公告就反而憑一紙公文以後做什麼事情只要你們的公文就可以了委員這個不能這樣子講我們依國行法我們依法行政他沒有任何回覆\n\n06:35.133 --> 07:03.322\n時間點嗎?他沒有申請上司他就是中華民國籍啊這麼簡單就是這樣子啊那我接受你的說法就是說蕭美琴在以前在接受媒體訪問的時候她要麼認知錯誤要麼她說謊嘛就兩個嘛還是她還是媒體報道錯誤就尊重委員你個人的意見尊重你個人的意見只有兩個可能啦兩個可能之一啦好來我想請問喔這個我們的我們上次不是上次修這個總統副總統選舉罷免法吧這個一起修的嘛記得吧在我們這裡委員會有修這個法\n\n07:04.769 --> 07:12.576\n我想請問這個總統副總統選舉發言法有沒有規定裡面有沒有規定有兩個政黨可以聯合推薦總統副總統誰會回答就是選舉發言法第22條第1項有沒有規定可以聯合推薦兩個以上的政黨哪一位回答\n\n07:29.179 --> 07:51.648\n這是哪一個單位?還是中選會要這樣回答?當然這個法令是內政部管的還是中選會要幫忙回答?報告委員,依照總統選舉、副總統選舉罷免法規定是得有兩個以上政黨共同推薦可以嗎?可以嗎?依法是兩個政黨可以聯合、也可以共同推薦嘛對不對?好,那請問這個朱立倫、馬英格、侯偉克、問責那時候討論要聯合推薦總統、副總統這個有什麼問題?\n\n07:58.173 --> 08:00.843\n為什麼會被告什麼縮延載趟\n\n08:03.956 --> 08:25.831\n那請問以後兩個政黨如何聯合推薦?兩個政黨在討論說到底怎麼樣聯合推薦?這個有什麼問題?這個就尊重提告的人他的一個主張跟訴求所以說你認為應該沒有這樣的問題了齁?那個提告的人提告的人他當然任何人都可以提告任何人都可以提嘛你認為呢?你對這個法律的解釋呢?你覺得可不可以聯合推薦?我想我們不方便在這邊談論這個候選人他現在已經我現在要討論這個法律現在已經\n\n08:30.314 --> 08:57.929\n現在已經進入到那個沒有以後還是有可能今天已經抽籤了我們也不是針對這個案子我們只是說以後有可能會發生嗎這個我們可能要看他的這個我們可能要看他過程裡面看他過程裡面的可不可以在一起討論說聯合推薦這件事情嗎但是他不只是討論這個所謂聯合推薦他也許還有其他的這些談論的事情嘛所以這要看他的具體的事證跟提告人他的訴求OK\n\n08:59.330 --> 09:27.605\n所以說你覺得這個被告發這件事情你如果就你的這個法律判斷你覺得這個告發這個施政會成立嗎沒有我不是法官我沒有辦法你不要吧反正你任何人都有提告權我也接受不過濫用司法資源或只是為了創造一些這當然是這一次當然是過去以後還是有可能發生我們既然總統副總統選舉辦法一定有這一條可以政黨聯合推薦當然各個主要政黨的主要的領袖人物坐在一起討論如何聯合推薦也不應該是一件犯法的事情對吧\n\n09:33.087 --> 09:45.238\n我剛剛講過當然他依兩個政黨合作的一個程序去進行在法裡面是允許的但他有沒有其他的事情就不曉得所以要尊重提告人提告的那個內容\n\n","segments":[{"start":0.712,"end":3.122,"text":"議會中選會李卓偉請"},{"start":10.339,"end":31.478,"text":"委員好今天這個總統副總統號誌已經抽定那之前在沸沸揚揚討論這個總統副總統候選人資格審定的時候就是想請教你們那時候說審定合格嘛三組候選人都審定合格那請問三組候選人你們的這個審定呢你們的審查是進行這個形式上的審查還是實質上的審查"},{"start":35.541,"end":56.94,"text":"當初在討論這些這個有關什麼恢復國籍啊什麼雙重國籍啊是不是或者是規劃或回復這個部分的時候這個你們都有相關的資料吧我們有向內政部來函查內政部也非常清楚的告訴我們六組的候選人三組候選人六個"},{"start":57.76,"end":78.773,"text":"候選人裡面沒有任何一個有回復國籍所以你們是按照內政部的公文是吧那當然因為他是主任他有沒有檢附相關的施政沒有嗎就只有公文嗎他告訴我們結果所以你們是按照內政部的公文告訴大眾說這個都符合資格所以是內政部告訴你們這是非常明顯而且是確定是內政部說那我們請內政部"},{"start":83.752,"end":108.902,"text":"所以有沒有人自始就有中華民國國籍或者原來是美國籍或是規劃或是回復的這部分內政部有做實質的審查嗎我想就內政部的部分我們有進行相關的一個查證有實質查證就對了包括過去阿是不是對我們會查他的戶籍的一個資料那戶籍的阿國籍的部分呢也一樣我們會查自己都有做詳查齁好那所以你們手上有相關的這個資料嗎是的很詳細的資料齁那這個部分是不是應該公開提示給這個社會大眾知道"},{"start":113.044,"end":131.187,"text":"委員會想跟你報告一下第一個因為不管是這個蕭女士的父親或者是他個人他從來都沒有上司國籍的一個資料所以他自始至終就是中華民國國籍對嘛那應該會有相關那每個人不管從戶政啊或是國籍或者他有父親有國籍的相關都有相關事證嘛"},{"start":132.208,"end":156.382,"text":"他就是他就是他就是國籍啊他並沒有任何他並沒有任何上司或者回覆的這個資料那你至少會有他的相關的資料公告給大眾知道嘛我原理所謂相關資料指的是比如說我們看到的因為蕭美琴這個現在副總統候選人他當初在自己在媒體上說他只有美國籍啊他說過他自己只有美國籍啊"},{"start":157.262,"end":172.234,"text":"不過那個是我們是必須他自己說的這個我們依法對所以依法對那他自己這樣說的話你們那他到底原來的中華民國國籍是因為他放棄美國籍後他就回復了這個中華民國國籍呢還是什麼情形我想"},{"start":173.696,"end":192.794,"text":"你們既然查正確了你們是怎麼樣認定你們就應該把這個過程公諸我是說公諸給大眾知道這個減少社會的這個對立啦大家都清楚嘛那委員會可以報告這個非常簡單因為他從來沒有喪失所以當然他也沒有回復所以他面對媒體他面對媒體訪問的時候所以你的意思是他面對媒體訪問他是說謊的"},{"start":196.778,"end":222.938,"text":"不是,我想他有可能所以他誤會了對,他有可能是誤會所以你說我們這個副總候選人他的認知能力有問題對自己的國籍都沒有辦法認知清楚在年輕的時候都沒有辦法認知自己是美國籍還是中華民國籍我想非常清楚只要是中華民國的國籍一出生的時候他就具有他認為他自己是只有美國籍你們卻幫他認定說他有中華民國國籍那我現在說他的認知錯誤你就說不是"},{"start":223.838,"end":244.554,"text":"委員我們依法我們依法他就是原住民國所以我們這樣爭辯的話事實上都會陷入各說各話所以我希望你們就把你們查到的事證你們怎麼認定的我剛才已經講得很清楚你們沒有做任何查證反正你們就認為說他爸爸原來就是中華民國不是不是他爸爸原來就是中華民國也有相關事證吧你把它公告出來啊委員"},{"start":247.85,"end":262.838,"text":"他從來沒有申請上司那我請問你我說我有中華民國我說我沒有中華民國國籍那你們來認定的時候你們就說你本來就有你說有就有嗎一定有相關事證委員你這樣子邏輯上面有一些"},{"start":264.759,"end":275.044,"text":"你們很多人這樣沒錯因為來來我想請問你蕭美琴自己說自己只有美國籍你們卻說她從來就有中華民國國籍所以我說那表示她當初在說謊的她在受訪的時候說錯嘛有可能她說錯啦我們也不要說她說謊她可能說錯嘛對不對"},{"start":281.107,"end":296.238,"text":"有可能是說錯啦對不對那部分我想我們是就行政機關我們國際法的我們國際法的相關的規定他要麼就說謊要麼他自己認知錯誤覺得自己只有美國籍嘛委員我覺得這樣子道歉很好對自己的國籍這麼年輕的時候都會認知錯誤這個"},{"start":300.141,"end":307.067,"text":"所以我說我們這樣繼續爭辯實際上意義小 也會增加衝突那現在會有錢錢了嘛我說是不是你們把這些東西弄清楚公諸大眾嘛他父親也要去有中華民國國籍 比如說我舉例 比如他父親一定有出國嘛 他後來有去美國嘛一定有中華民國護照啊 什麼這類的東西啊他什麼時候取得什麼時間點寫出來給社會大眾知道"},{"start":323.021,"end":348.662,"text":"以恃眾疑﹑這個社會檢討這個寵物﹑其實這樣子繞圈圈沒有意義今天就是內政部說了算反正也不是提供我們依國籍法相關的規定去進行查證查證的結果他就是有中華民國因為他從來沒有上司他也沒有申請上司他有取得中華民國國籍嗎他當然有啊他有什麼時候取得為什麼自己認為沒有呢"},{"start":349.93,"end":350.771,"text":"委員會主任委員會主任委員會主任委員會主任"},{"start":367.81,"end":393.952,"text":"有什麼公布公告的問題我們在上個禮拜的新聞稿裡面已經講了非常多都是用新聞稿嘛這就像蔡總統說他有有那個什麼論文什麼都是用新聞稿東西公布出來嘛以示眾議就好了沒關係喔我問下一題對不起喔來因為時間有限喔那個來你們也不公告就反而憑一紙公文以後做什麼事情只要你們的公文就可以了委員這個不能這樣子講我們依國行法我們依法行政他沒有任何回覆"},{"start":395.133,"end":423.322,"text":"時間點嗎?他沒有申請上司他就是中華民國籍啊這麼簡單就是這樣子啊那我接受你的說法就是說蕭美琴在以前在接受媒體訪問的時候她要麼認知錯誤要麼她說謊嘛就兩個嘛還是她還是媒體報道錯誤就尊重委員你個人的意見尊重你個人的意見只有兩個可能啦兩個可能之一啦好來我想請問喔這個我們的我們上次不是上次修這個總統副總統選舉罷免法吧這個一起修的嘛記得吧在我們這裡委員會有修這個法"},{"start":424.769,"end":432.576,"text":"我想請問這個總統副總統選舉發言法有沒有規定裡面有沒有規定有兩個政黨可以聯合推薦總統副總統誰會回答就是選舉發言法第22條第1項有沒有規定可以聯合推薦兩個以上的政黨哪一位回答"},{"start":449.179,"end":471.648,"text":"這是哪一個單位?還是中選會要這樣回答?當然這個法令是內政部管的還是中選會要幫忙回答?報告委員,依照總統選舉、副總統選舉罷免法規定是得有兩個以上政黨共同推薦可以嗎?可以嗎?依法是兩個政黨可以聯合、也可以共同推薦嘛對不對?好,那請問這個朱立倫、馬英格、侯偉克、問責那時候討論要聯合推薦總統、副總統這個有什麼問題?"},{"start":478.173,"end":480.843,"text":"為什麼會被告什麼縮延載趟"},{"start":483.956,"end":505.831,"text":"那請問以後兩個政黨如何聯合推薦?兩個政黨在討論說到底怎麼樣聯合推薦?這個有什麼問題?這個就尊重提告的人他的一個主張跟訴求所以說你認為應該沒有這樣的問題了齁?那個提告的人提告的人他當然任何人都可以提告任何人都可以提嘛你認為呢?你對這個法律的解釋呢?你覺得可不可以聯合推薦?我想我們不方便在這邊談論這個候選人他現在已經我現在要討論這個法律現在已經"},{"start":510.314,"end":537.929,"text":"現在已經進入到那個沒有以後還是有可能今天已經抽籤了我們也不是針對這個案子我們只是說以後有可能會發生嗎這個我們可能要看他的這個我們可能要看他過程裡面看他過程裡面的可不可以在一起討論說聯合推薦這件事情嗎但是他不只是討論這個所謂聯合推薦他也許還有其他的這些談論的事情嘛所以這要看他的具體的事證跟提告人他的訴求OK"},{"start":539.33,"end":567.605,"text":"所以說你覺得這個被告發這件事情你如果就你的這個法律判斷你覺得這個告發這個施政會成立嗎沒有我不是法官我沒有辦法你不要吧反正你任何人都有提告權我也接受不過濫用司法資源或只是為了創造一些這當然是這一次當然是過去以後還是有可能發生我們既然總統副總統選舉辦法一定有這一條可以政黨聯合推薦當然各個主要政黨的主要的領袖人物坐在一起討論如何聯合推薦也不應該是一件犯法的事情對吧"},{"start":573.087,"end":585.238,"text":"我剛剛講過當然他依兩個政黨合作的一個程序去進行在法裡面是允許的但他有沒有其他的事情就不曉得所以要尊重提告人提告的那個內容"}]}}}}