{"id":148979,"url":"https://ivod.ly.gov.tw/Play/Clip/1M/148979","video_url":"https://ivod-lyvod.cdn.hinet.net/vod_1/_definst_/mp4:1MClips/a0ee4ec253a72029da0f5676eab701e794fc233f19f174e7c986728e607a032264660bb4e4faf5645ea18f28b6918d91.mp4/playlist.m3u8","委員名稱":"李德維","委員發言時間":"12:47:38 - 13:00:26","影片長度":"00:12:48","會議時間":"2023-12-11T10:00:00+08:00","會議名稱":"立法院第10屆第8會期內政委員會第13次全體委員會議（事由：一、邀請中央選舉委員會主任委員、內政部部長、警政署署長、消防署署長、海巡署署長、原住民族委員會主任委員、國防部、法務部就「第16任總統副總統及第11屆立法委員選舉選務工作辦理情形、執勤軍警消海巡人員投票權益、文化健康站等工作人員於選舉期間之行政中立」進行專題報告，並備質詢；另邀請司法院列席備詢。二、原住民身分法：(一)審查行政院函請審議「原住民身分法修正草案」案。(二)繼續審查委員鄭天財SraKacaw等16人擬具「原住民身分法第五條、第七條及第九條條文修正草案」案。(三)繼續審查委員劉櫂豪等18人擬具「原住民身分法第九條條文修正草案」案。(四)繼續審查委員郭國文等16人擬具「原住民身分法第二條條文修正草案」案。(五)繼續審查委員張宏陸等20人擬具「原住民身分法第二條條文修正草案」案。(六)繼續審查委員鄭天財SraKacaw等18人擬具「原住民身分法第四條及第八條之一條文修正草案」案。(七)審查委員蔡適應等25人擬具「原住民身分法第四條、第七條及第八條條文修正草案」案。(八)審查委員陳明文等16人擬具「原住民身分法第九條條文修正草案」案。三、原住民族工作權保障法：(一)審查行政院函請審議「原住民族工作權保障法部分條文修正草案」案。(二)審查委員鄭天財SraKacaw等17人擬具「原住民族工作權保障法部分條文修正草案」案。(三)審查委員伍麗華Saidhai Tahovecahe等18人擬具「原住民族工作權保障法修正草案」案。(四)審查委員陳瑩等16人擬具「原住民族工作權保障法第十一條條文修正草案」案。(五)審查委員陳瑩等17人擬具「原住民族工作權保障法第四條條文修正草案」案。(六)審查委員廖國棟等25人擬具「原住民族工作權保障法部分條文修正草案」案。(七)審查委員孔文吉等22人擬具「原住民族工作權保障法部分條文修正草案」案。四、姓名條例：(一)繼續審查委員鄭天財SraKacaw等16人擬具「姓名條例部分條文修正草案」案。(二)繼續審查委員伍麗華SaidhaiTahovecahe等20人擬具「姓名條例第二條及第四條條文修正草案」案。(三)繼續審查委員羅美玲等18人擬具「姓名條例第九條條文修正草案」案。(四)繼續審查委員廖國棟等16人擬具「姓名條例部分條文修正草案」案。【12月11日、14日兩天一次會】）","meet":{"tmpMeeting":null,"title":"第10屆第8會期內政委員會第13次全體委員會議","term":10,"type":"委員會","sessionPeriod":8,"sessionTimes":13,"committees":[15],"id":"委員會-10-8-15-13"},"date":"2023-12-11","duration":768,"end_time":"2023-12-11T13:00:26+08:00","start_time":"2023-12-11T12:47:38+08:00","features":["ai-transcript","gazette"],"type":"Clip","gazette":{"lineno":1022,"blocks":[["李委員德維：（12時47分）謝謝主席。主席，麻煩內政部林部長、中選會李主委。今天法務部是黃常次，還是……"],["主席：黃常次。"],["李委員德維：好，那就麻煩。"],["主席：林部長、李主委、黃常次。"],["林部長右昌：委員好。"],["李委員德維：部長，我們正副總統選舉罷免法第二十條規定，在中華民國自由地區連續居住六個月以上，而且設籍十五年以上的選舉人，年滿四十歲可以成為總統、副總統的候選人。請教一下，這個部分內政部或者是中選會可以回答一下，我們現在執政黨的副總統參選人蕭美琴女士，他何時在臺灣設籍的？我們先不談國籍，我們講戶籍，你們有資料嗎？"],["林部長右昌：請戶政司來回答。"],["李委員德維：好，戶政司。"],["陳代理司長子和：報告委員，我們有查過他的戶籍資料，他是在91年的時候……"],["李委員德維：91年註冊戶籍，所以在91年以前他在中華民國臺灣地區是沒有戶籍的？是這個意思嗎？對不對？"],["陳代理司長子和：按照移民法的規定，據有中華民國國籍的人有兩種身分，一個是有戶籍的國民，一種是無戶籍的國民。"],["李委員德維：沒關係，所以他真正申請戶籍是2002年，對不對？所以在2002年以前他沒有申請過。那可不可以請教，按照我們蕭副總統參選人的自述，他曾經講到一個問題，他說他為了要申請中華民國的國籍，不管是國籍或戶籍，幾乎跑斷腿。可不可以請教一下，在這個部分裡面，今天外交部是不是也有來啊？既然現在內政部說，他自然就有國籍，那為什麼他會因為申請國籍而跑斷腿？請問內政部有沒有調查，或者外交部當時誰拒絕了他？","我們在這個部分可以看到，1993年（民國82年）蕭美琴女士就擔任呂秀蓮辦公室的實習助理，1995年（民國84年）就開始是民主進步黨駐美代表處的執行長，到1996年開始是民進黨中央黨部國際事務部的副主任。應該這樣講，他當時都沒有申請中華民國臺灣的戶籍，雖然你說他有國籍，但是他都沒有申請。","重點來了，他說他申請國籍，不管國籍或戶籍，他在2002申請了戶籍，因為你說他有國籍。本席想請教的是，在這裡面到底是哪個單位讓他跑斷腿？是你外交部不願意辦？還是內政部要負責？還是臺北市哪個戶政事務所拒絕他？可以講出來嗎？要不要講？"],["林部長右昌：我想我不是很清楚那個時候蕭美琴女士辦理所謂的這些……"],["李委員德維：跑斷腿。"],["林部長右昌：這個問題，不曉得那個情境是什麼樣子。"],["李委員德維：是。"],["林部長右昌：不過，這個跟他的國籍基本上是……我們在法律上，基本上是沒有關係的。"],["李委員德維：沒關係。部長，我當然知道你會這樣回答，但是現在蕭美琴女士既然講，他當時為了不管是戶籍或國籍，他是跑斷腿了，所以本席現在要要求內政部也好、外交部也好，好好地去清查到底當時是誰讓他跑斷腿的。既然他有國籍，為什麼不能申請戶籍？或者他為什麼沒有申請戶籍？當然那是他的問題，但重點是，他講了，他跑斷腿啊！最後他是想要國籍來參選立委，這是他講的。所以這個部分，沒關係，部長，我知道你現在答不出來，但是可不可以請您帶回去，瞭解一下當時他為什麼需要跑斷腿，甚至於參選立法委員才能夠申請戶籍。所以他特別講了，您可以去看，他說2002他當選了立委，然後他非常開心地去放棄美國籍，申請中華民國的國籍，他認為他終於回家了。","好，這也不重要，因為你們現在講的是，他申請了戶籍，他本來就有國籍。重點一句話就是，當時到底是哪個單位，讓他這個有國籍的人不能申請，或者讓他跑斷腿去申請戶籍？"],["林部長右昌：委員，我跟你報告……"],["李委員德維：這個政治責任要追究。"],["林部長右昌：我想，這個這麼多年來，我們的戶政機關或者相關機關的服務應該是有增進啦！不過你剛剛提到，那個跟國籍基本上沒有關係。","第二個，申請戶籍的時候，其實就是到他戶籍要申請的所在地的戶政機關去申請。"],["李委員德維：是，所以這個部分，拜託內政部、戶政司可以去瞭解一下，在2002年以前，我們當時的蕭美琴女士，他跑斷腿去申請但卻不得其門而入，到底發生了什麼事？您可以去調查嗎？願意嗎？"],["林部長右昌：不過委員，我跟您報告，這個應該跟所謂的申請，或者……"],["李委員德維：我要講，部長，這個非常、非常重要，為什麼？因為這個牽扯到所有以後在國外出生的中華民國國民來申請戶籍，他需要跑斷腿跟蕭美琴一樣的話，本席不能接受。這不是蕭美琴一個人的問題，是所有人的問題，他31歲以前沒有申請中華民國的戶籍，你雖然說他自然就有中華民國的國籍，但他沒有申請，所以他沒身分證，他沒有中華民國的護照，這一點外交部是不是……因為你沒有戶籍，他應該是沒有中華民國的護照吧！所以這個部分裡面，不只是他一個人的問題，我們現在希望保障的是，所有中華民國的國民以後在國外出生，他都不需要跑斷腿來申請戶籍。"],["林部長右昌：跟委員報告，現在我們所有的戶政機關都已經全國連線，所以現在已不需要跑到所謂的所在地，其實在任何一個戶政機關，透過我們相關的申請程序……當然如果是國外回來的話，還要經過我們移民機關。現在因為所有的戶所都已經全部連線了，以前並沒有，這點也跟你做說明。"],["李委員德維：瞭解，謝謝部長。","另外再請教法務部次長，按照緩刑制度的立法理由說明是為促使惡性輕微的偶發犯或初犯改過自新而設，而且憲法法庭也解釋，臺灣高等法院108年度抗字第890號的裁定要旨也認為緩刑是一個寬典，請問次長，既然是寬典，被告（受刑人）能夠主動放棄緩刑嗎？"],["黃次長謀信：跟委員報告，這是一個判決，他沒有放棄的問題。"],["李委員德維：他沒有放棄的問題。公務人員選舉罷免法第二十六條原來的相關規定您都一定非常清楚，但是最後一句話「但受緩刑宣告者，不在此限」，今年我們立法院做了相關的修訂，行政院今年6月提出來的公職人員選舉罷免法修正，這個部分在緩刑期間或者是行刑權因時效消滅，不得登記為候選人。次長，受緩刑不得參選，這個在我們剛剛前面講到的憲法保障人民的參政權，您覺得有疑義嗎？當然今天不只是王家貞這個案子。"],["黃次長謀信：因為選務不是法務部主管，而且這個法規也不是本部主管法規，本部當然尊重主管機關以及立法的形成，所以本部沒有辦法有所評論。"],["李委員德維：好，那本席有一個問題，法務部在這部分願意去研究它的適法性，是不是願意提出來讓大法官來釋憲？法務部的立場呢？"],["黃次長謀信：主管法規的主管機關如果有異議的話，按照我們憲法訴訟法，它是有權力可以做相關的處理。"],["李委員德維：當然主管機關是中選會……"],["黃次長謀信：如果說有法律上的意見，本部作為中華民國法律意見的主管機關，我們可以提供相關的意見諮詢，這是沒有問題的。"],["李委員德維：好，這部分也請法務部來研究一下。","主委，請教一下，這個部分您覺得有沒有必要大法官再來研究一下？"],["李主任委員進勇：中選會的立場，我們在候選人資格審定的時候，完全是根據選罷法的規定辦理。"],["李委員德維：當然，因為你們也是當時修法的主管機關，這一個條文其實當時在這個地方，這樣講不好意思，不只我們國民黨，其實民進黨也有很多意見，但是到後來朝野協商全部被一腳踹翻，回到原點，按照行政院版本，就全部回來了。但是現在的確發生問題，所以中選會基於本法的主管機關，願不願意來思考可以請大法官再來做解釋？因為現在是受緩刑的問題。"],["李主任委員進勇：我們作為選罷法的執行機關，是按照大院所通過的選罷法的規定，嚴格的來執行。"],["李委員德維：好，主委，您自己也是法律人，犯下各式各樣的重罪，執行以後都可以參選，但是現在的輕罪連緩刑，就是所謂的寬典都不能參選，這真的在公平正義上有一些問題，所以本席真的建議要來救濟。","不好意思，因為時間到了，最後一個問題，高雄市政風處在查賄的時候，當然現在有舉報劉秀鳳理事長假藉舉辦70大壽名義為總統參選人來助選。請教法務部次長，有這件事嗎？你們有接到相關的情資嗎？"],["黃次長謀信：跟委員報告，政風處、我們檢察官在查察賄選的時候，不論是民眾的檢舉告發也好，或來自政府部門的相關蒐證也好，都會匯集到我們檢察機關來做一個情資的研判。"],["李委員德維：好，這一件事情當然現在媒體報導的不小，所以高雄市政風處真的有相關的情資，是這個意思嗎？"],["黃次長謀信：事實上高雄地檢就這個情資也分案在處理了。"],["李委員德維：在處理了？"],["黃次長謀信：是。"],["李委員德維：這個當然是檢察官的權責，但在這部分裡面，各個政黨，尤其執政黨的立委其實也在相關宴會上現身，所以真的要好好的來做調查，我們當然勿枉勿縱，但是也不要讓人覺得這裡面有什麼因人而異或者因政黨而異的事情發生，我覺得都是大家不樂見的。"],["黃次長謀信：不會，檢察官會按照蒐集來的情資，他自己再依個案做研判。"],["李委員德維：好，瞭解，謝謝。謝謝主席。"],["主席：謝謝。接下來請伍麗華委員質詢。"]],"agenda":{"page_end":156,"meet_id":"委員會-10-8-15-13","speakers":["游毓蘭","賴品妤","陳玉珍","張宏陸","王美惠","陳以信","黃世杰","鄭天財Sra Kacaw","羅美玲","莊瑞雄","江啟臣","李德維","伍麗華Saidhai‧Tahovecahe","陳椒華","林文瑞","陳琬惠","邱臣遠","廖國棟Sufin‧Siluko","陳瑩"],"page_start":1,"meetingDate":["2023-12-11"],"gazette_id":"1130201","agenda_lcidc_ids":["1130201_00002"],"meet_name":"立法院第10屆第8會期內政委員會第13次全體委員會議紀錄","content":"一、邀請中央選舉委員會主任委員、內政部部長、警政署署長、消防署署長、海巡署署長、原住\n民族委員會主任委員、國防部、法務部就「第16任總統副總統及第11屆立法委員選舉選務工作辦\n理情形、執勤軍警消海巡人員投票權益、文化健康站等工作人員於選舉期間之行政中立」進行專\n題報告，並備質詢；另邀請司法院列席備詢；二、原住民身分法：(一)審查行政院函請審議「原\n住民身分法修正草案」案、(二)繼續審查委員鄭天財 Sra Kacaw 等16人擬具「原住民身分法第五\n條、第七條及第九條條文修正草案」案、(三)繼續審查委員劉櫂豪等18人擬具「原住民身分法第\n九條條文修正草案」案、(四)繼續審查委員郭國文等16人擬具「原住民身分法第二條條文修正草\n案」案、(五)繼續審查委員張宏陸等20人擬具「原住民身分法第二條條文修正草案」案、(六)繼\n續審查委員鄭天財 Sra Kacaw 等18人擬具「原住民身分法第四條及第八條之一條文修正草案」\n案、( 七) 審查委員蔡適應等25 人擬具「原住民身分法第四條、第七條及第八條條文修正草案」\n案、(八)審查委員陳明文等16人擬具「原住民身分法第九條條文修正草案」案；三、原住民族工\n作權保障法：(一)審查行政院函請審議「原住民族工作權保障法部分條文修正草案」案、(二)審\n查委員鄭天財 Sra Kacaw 等17人擬具「原住民族工作權保障法部分條文修正草案」案、(三)審查\n委員伍麗華 Saidhai Tahovecahe 等18人擬具「原住民族工作權保障法修正草案」案、(四)審查\n委員陳瑩等16人擬具「原住民族工作權保障法第十一條條文修正草案」案、(五)審查委員陳瑩等\n17 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\"score\": 0.833}, {\"word\": \"個\"}, {\"word\": \"案\", \"start\": 758.76, \"end\": 758.94, \"score\": 0.986}, {\"word\": \"在\", \"start\": 758.94, \"end\": 759.08, \"score\": 0.998}, {\"word\": \"做\", \"start\": 759.08, \"end\": 759.221, \"score\": 0.857}, {\"word\": \"研\", \"start\": 759.221, \"end\": 759.421, \"score\": 0.901}, {\"word\": \"判\", \"start\": 759.421, \"end\": 759.761, \"score\": 0.992}, {\"word\": \"好\", \"start\": 759.761, \"end\": 760.141, \"score\": 0.947}, {\"word\": \"了\", \"start\": 760.141, \"end\": 760.722, \"score\": 0.908}, {\"word\": \"解\", \"start\": 760.722, \"end\": 762.683, \"score\": 0.979}, {\"word\": \"謝\"}, {\"word\": \"謝\"}, {\"word\": \"謝\"}, {\"word\": \"謝\"}, {\"word\": \"主\", \"start\": 762.683, \"end\": 762.823, \"score\": 0.859}, {\"word\": \"席\", \"start\": 762.823, \"end\": 764.245, \"score\": 0.973}, {\"word\": \"謝\"}, {\"word\": \"謝\"}, {\"word\": \"接\", \"start\": 764.245, \"end\": 764.405, \"score\": 0.875}, {\"word\": \"下\", \"start\": 764.405, \"end\": 764.505, \"score\": 0.806}, {\"word\": \"來\"}, {\"word\": \"請\"}, {\"word\": \"吳\"}, {\"word\": \"立\", \"start\": 764.505, \"end\": 764.565, \"score\": 0.666}, {\"word\": \"華\"}, {\"word\": \"委\", \"start\": 764.565, \"end\": 764.585, \"score\": 0.0}, {\"word\": \"員\"}, {\"word\": \"質\"}, {\"word\": \"詢\"}], \"language\": \"zh\"}","srt":"1\n00:00:05,114 --> 00:00:13,808\n好謝謝主席主席麻煩內政部林部長、中選會李主委好今天法務部是黃長赤嗎還是黃長赤好那就麻煩\n\n2\n00:00:15,953 --> 00:00:35,720\n林部長、李主委、黃承次是委員好好來部長請教一下當然我們正副總統選舉辦理法20條規定在中華民國自由地區連續居住6個月以上而且涉及15年以上的選舉人年滿40歲可以成為總統副總統的候選人請教一下\n\n3\n00:00:36,620 --> 00:00:52,889\n這個部分當然內政部或者是中選會可以回答一下我們現在執政黨的副總統參選人蕭美琴女士她何時在台灣涉及的我們先不談國籍我們講戶籍先講戶籍你們有資料嗎請護證師來回答好護證師報告委員我們有查過他的戶籍資料他是\n\n4\n00:01:08,570 --> 00:01:17,475\n好來91年註冊戶籍所以在91年以前他在中華民國台灣地區是沒有戶籍的是這個意思嗎對不對\n\n5\n00:01:19,788 --> 00:01:41,519\n按照移民法的規定具有中華民國國籍的人他有兩種身份一個是有戶籍的國民一種是無戶籍的國民所以他真正申請戶籍是2002年對不對所以在2002年以前他沒有申請過那可不可以請教按照我們蕭副總統參選人的字數裡面他已經講到一個問題\n\n6\n00:01:46,061 --> 00:02:09,397\n他說他為了要申請中華民國的國籍不管是國籍或戶籍幾乎跑斷腿可不可以請教一下在這個部分裡面今天外交部是不是又來到底是既然現在內政部說他自然就有國籍那為什麼他會因為申請國籍而跑斷腿請問內政部有沒有調查或者外交部當時誰拒絕了他\n\n7\n00:02:11,738 --> 00:02:33,696\n因為我們在這部分裡面我們可以看到1993年民國82年蕭美琴女士就擔任呂秀蓮辦公室的實習助理在1995年就民國84年開始是民主進步黨駐美代表處的執行長到1996年開始是民進黨中央黨部國際事務部的副主任\n\n8\n00:02:35,862 --> 00:03:04,101\n應該這樣講他當時都沒有申請中華民國台灣的戶籍雖然你說他有國籍但是他都沒有申請好重點來了他說他申請國籍不管國籍或戶籍他現在2002他申請了戶籍因為你說他有國籍本期想請教的是在這裡面到底是哪個單位讓他跑斷腿是你外交部不願意辦\n\n9\n00:03:05,181 --> 00:03:12,486\n還是內政部要負責還是台北市哪個互證事務所拒絕他可以講出來嗎要不要講來\n\n10\n00:03:17,110 --> 00:03:36,889\n我想不是很清楚那個時候這個蕭美琴女士她辦所謂的這些相關的這個問題不曉得那個情境是怎麼樣子不過這個跟她的國旗基本上是這個我們在法律上基本上是沒有關係來部長我知道你當然會這樣回答\n\n11\n00:03:37,990 --> 00:03:58,166\n但是現在蕭美琴女士既然講她當時為了不管是戶籍或國籍啦她是跑斷腿了所以本席現在要求內政部也好外交部也好好好的去清查到底當時是誰讓她跑斷腿既然她有國籍為什麼不能申請戶籍\n\n12\n00:04:00,137 --> 00:04:18,329\n或者為什麼他沒有申請戶籍那當然是他的問題但重點是他講了他跑斷腿最後他是要想要國籍來參選立委這是他講的所以這個部分來馬來西亞部長我知道你現在答不出來但是可不可以請您帶回去瞭解一下\n\n13\n00:04:20,128 --> 00:04:48,241\n當時他為什麼需要跑斷腿甚至於參選立法委員才能夠來申請戶籍所以他特別講喔您可以去看他說他2002他當選了立委然後他非常開心的去放棄美國籍申請中華民國的國籍他認為他終於回家了好這也不重要因為你們現在講的是他申請了戶籍他本來就有國籍重點\n\n14\n00:04:49,181 --> 00:05:00,276\n一句話就是當時到底是哪個單位讓他這個有國籍的人不能申請或者讓他跑斷腿去申請戶籍這個政績實在要追究\n\n15\n00:05:05,910 --> 00:05:28,958\n我想這個這麼多年來應該我們的互證機關或者相關機關的服務應該是增進了不過你剛剛提到那個跟國籍其實基本上沒有沒有關係第二個申請戶籍那個時候其實就是到他戶籍要申請的所在地的這個互證機關去做申請是所以這個部分拜託內政部還有互證師可以去了解一下\n\n16\n00:05:31,935 --> 00:05:58,465\n當時這2002年以前我們當時的小美琴女士她跑斷腿去申請但是不得其門而入到底發生了什麼事您可以去調查嗎願意嗎不過委員會跟你報告這個應該跟因為來來來我講這個非常非常重要不然不然不然我講這個非常重要為什麼因為這個牽扯到所有以後在國外出生的\n\n17\n00:05:59,622 --> 00:06:14,271\n中華民國國民來申請戶籍他要需要跑斷腿跟蕭美琴一樣的話本席不能接受這不是蕭美琴一個人的問題是所有人的問題\n\n18\n00:06:15,950 --> 00:06:45,430\n他31歲以前他沒有申請中華民國的戶籍你雖然說他有他自然就是中華民國有他的國籍但他沒有申請所以他沒有身分證他沒有中華民國的護照這一點外交部是不是因為你沒有戶籍但是應該是沒有中華民國的護照吧所以這個部分裡面不只是他一個人的問題我們現在希望保障的是所有中華民國的國民以後在國外出生\n\n19\n00:06:46,370 --> 00:07:07,976\n他都不需要跑斷腿來申請戶籍剛剛我也報告現在我們所有的戶政機關現在都已經全國連線所以現在你不需要跑到所謂的所在地其實在任何一個戶政機關透過我們相關的一個申請程序當然如果是國外回來的話\n\n20\n00:07:09,037 --> 00:07:20,391\n還要經過我們移民機關那現在因為全部都已經全部所有的戶所都全部連線了那以前是並沒有所以這一點跟你做說明好了解來謝謝部長\n\n21\n00:07:21,721 --> 00:07:44,447\n那另外再請教一下來這個法務部長請教一下按照緩刑制度的立法理由說明是惡性輕微的被告或偶發犯出犯改過自新而設而且憲法法庭也解釋臺灣高等法院108年度抗治第890號的裁定要旨也認為緩刑是一個寬點\n\n22\n00:07:46,763 --> 00:07:51,201\n請問次長這是寬點被告也就是受刑人能夠主動放棄緩刑嗎\n\n23\n00:07:53,352 --> 00:08:20,934\n公務員辦法這是一個判決他沒有辦法放棄的問題他沒有一個放棄的問題對好來公務員辦法26條原來的規定這些相關您都一定非常清楚但是最後一句話但受緩刑宣告者不在此限那今年當然這個我們立法院做相關的這個修訂行政院提出來的這個部分今年6月工作人員辦法修正所以在這個部分裡面\n\n24\n00:08:21,955 --> 00:08:45,778\n當然在緩刑期間或者是刑刑權因失效的消滅不得登記為候選人請到次長受緩刑不得參選這個在憲法保障我們剛剛前面講到的東西這個人民的參政權您覺得有疑義嗎我們當然今天不只是王家珍這個案子\n\n25\n00:08:47,028 --> 00:09:01,040\n各位報告因為這個不是選務不是法務部主管而且這個法規也不是本部主管法規那本部當然尊重主管機關及立法的形成所以這部分我們本部沒有辦法有所評論那本市有一個問題\n\n26\n00:09:02,501 --> 00:09:18,839\n法務部在這部分願意去研究它的釋法性是不是願意來提出來相關大法官來釋憲法務部的立場跟我們報告這個主管法規的主管機關他如果有異議的話按照我們憲法送法他是有權利可以做相關的權利當然主管機關是中選會\n\n27\n00:09:20,981 --> 00:09:45,248\n法律上的意見本部當作全中華民國的法律意見主管機關我們可以提供相關的意見諮詢這是沒有問題所以這個部分當然也請法務部來研究一下好不好來主委請教一下要不然來換市長請教主委好了主委這個部分您覺得勒有沒有必要大法官再來研究一下\n\n28\n00:09:46,769 --> 00:09:59,226\n中選會的立場我們在候選人資格審定的時候完全是根據選罷法的規定來辦理但是你們也是當時修法的主管機關嘛這一個條文其實當時在這個地方\n\n29\n00:10:02,731 --> 00:10:28,625\n這樣講不好意思不只我們國民黨其實民進黨也有很多意見但到後來朝野協商全部被一腳踹翻回到原點按照行政院版本就全部回來了但現在的確發生了問題所以中選會基於主管機關的這一個部分願不願意來思考可以請大法官再來做解釋因為現在是受緩刑的問題\n\n30\n00:10:30,925 --> 00:10:46,490\n我們作為這個選罷法的執行機關是按照大院所通過的選罷法的規定嚴格的來執行是好來主委您自己也法律人\n\n31\n00:10:47,870 --> 00:11:05,679\n犯下各式各樣的重罪執行以後都可以參選但是現在的輕罪連緩刑就是所謂的寬點都不能參選這真的其實在公平正義上真的有一些問題所以本席真的建議要來救濟最後一個問題來不好意思因為時間到了最後一個問題\n\n32\n00:11:09,221 --> 00:11:23,853\n那個高雄市政風處在茶會的時候當然現在有舉報啊就是劉秀鳳理事長甲介舉辦七字大咒民意為這個總統參選來助選啊那請教法務部好了這位法務部\n\n33\n00:11:25,415 --> 00:11:42,571\n市長有這件事嗎?你們有接到相關的情資嗎?跟我們報告那政風處他我們檢察官在查查會選的時候是民眾的檢舉告發也好或來自政府部門的相關的說證也好他都會匯集到我們檢察機關來做一個請示的研判\n\n34\n00:11:43,652 --> 00:12:02,807\n好所以這件事情當然現在媒體也有報導的不小那所以高雄市增豐處真的有有這相關的一個情資是這個意思嗎那事實上高雄地檢營就這個情資他也分案在處理了在處理了是好當然在這部分裡面這個市長您也當然這\n\n35\n00:12:04,548 --> 00:12:27,211\n檢察官的權責但是在這部分裡面當然各個政黨尤其是執政黨的立委其實也在相關參與宴會的現身所以在這部分裡面當然請這個這個真的要好好的來做調查千萬不要我們當然勿枉勿縱但是也不要讓人覺得\n\n36\n00:12:29,553 --> 00:12:44,585\n這裡面有什麼因人而異或者因政黨而異的事情發生我覺得都是大家不樂見我不會那檢察官會按照收集來請知他在做自己個案在做研判好了解謝謝謝謝主席謝謝接下來請吳立華委員質詢\n\n","tsv":"start\tend\ttext\n5114\t13808\t好謝謝主席主席麻煩內政部林部長、中選會李主委好今天法務部是黃長赤嗎還是黃長赤好那就麻煩\n15953\t35720\t林部長、李主委、黃承次是委員好好來部長請教一下當然我們正副總統選舉辦理法20條規定在中華民國自由地區連續居住6個月以上而且涉及15年以上的選舉人年滿40歲可以成為總統副總統的候選人請教一下\n36620\t52889\t這個部分當然內政部或者是中選會可以回答一下我們現在執政黨的副總統參選人蕭美琴女士她何時在台灣涉及的我們先不談國籍我們講戶籍先講戶籍你們有資料嗎請護證師來回答好護證師報告委員我們有查過他的戶籍資料他是\n68570\t77475\t好來91年註冊戶籍所以在91年以前他在中華民國台灣地區是沒有戶籍的是這個意思嗎對不對\n79788\t101519\t按照移民法的規定具有中華民國國籍的人他有兩種身份一個是有戶籍的國民一種是無戶籍的國民所以他真正申請戶籍是2002年對不對所以在2002年以前他沒有申請過那可不可以請教按照我們蕭副總統參選人的字數裡面他已經講到一個問題\n106061\t129397\t他說他為了要申請中華民國的國籍不管是國籍或戶籍幾乎跑斷腿可不可以請教一下在這個部分裡面今天外交部是不是又來到底是既然現在內政部說他自然就有國籍那為什麼他會因為申請國籍而跑斷腿請問內政部有沒有調查或者外交部當時誰拒絕了他\n131738\t153696\t因為我們在這部分裡面我們可以看到1993年民國82年蕭美琴女士就擔任呂秀蓮辦公室的實習助理在1995年就民國84年開始是民主進步黨駐美代表處的執行長到1996年開始是民進黨中央黨部國際事務部的副主任\n155862\t184101\t應該這樣講他當時都沒有申請中華民國台灣的戶籍雖然你說他有國籍但是他都沒有申請好 重點來了他說他申請國籍不管國籍或戶籍他現在2002他申請了戶籍因為你說他有國籍本期想請教的是在這裡面到底是哪個單位讓他跑斷腿是你外交部不願意辦\n185181\t192486\t還是內政部要負責還是台北市哪個互證事務所拒絕他可以講出來嗎要不要講來\n197110\t216889\t我想不是很清楚那個時候這個蕭美琴女士她辦所謂的這些相關的這個問題不曉得那個情境是怎麼樣子不過這個跟她的國旗基本上是這個我們在法律上基本上是沒有關係來部長我知道你當然會這樣回答\n217990\t238166\t但是現在蕭美琴女士既然講她當時為了不管是戶籍或國籍啦她是跑斷腿了所以本席現在要求內政部也好外交部也好好好的去清查到底當時是誰讓她跑斷腿既然她有國籍為什麼不能申請戶籍\n240137\t258329\t或者為什麼他沒有申請戶籍那當然是他的問題但重點是他講了他跑斷腿最後他是要想要國籍來參選立委這是他講的所以這個部分來馬來西亞部長我知道你現在答不出來但是可不可以請您帶回去瞭解一下\n260128\t288241\t當時他為什麼需要跑斷腿甚至於參選立法委員才能夠來申請戶籍所以他特別講喔您可以去看他說他2002他當選了立委然後他非常開心的去放棄美國籍申請中華民國的國籍他認為他終於回家了好 這也不重要因為你們現在講的是他申請了戶籍他本來就有國籍重點\n289181\t300276\t一句話就是當時到底是哪個單位讓他這個有國籍的人不能申請或者讓他跑斷腿去申請戶籍這個政績實在要追究\n305910\t328958\t我想這個這麼多年來應該我們的互證機關或者相關機關的服務應該是增進了不過你剛剛提到那個跟國籍其實基本上沒有沒有關係第二個申請戶籍那個時候其實就是到他戶籍要申請的所在地的這個互證機關去做申請是所以這個部分拜託內政部還有互證師可以去了解一下\n331935\t358465\t當時這2002年以前我們當時的小美琴女士她跑斷腿去申請但是不得其門而入到底發生了什麼事您可以去調查嗎願意嗎不過委員會跟你報告這個應該跟因為來來來我講這個非常非常重要不然不然不然我講這個非常重要為什麼因為這個牽扯到所有以後在國外出生的\n359622\t374271\t中華民國國民來申請戶籍他要需要跑斷腿跟蕭美琴一樣的話本席不能接受這不是蕭美琴一個人的問題是所有人的問題\n375950\t405430\t他31歲以前他沒有申請中華民國的戶籍你雖然說他有他自然就是中華民國有他的國籍但他沒有申請所以他沒有身分證他沒有中華民國的護照這一點外交部是不是因為你沒有戶籍但是應該是沒有中華民國的護照吧所以這個部分裡面不只是他一個人的問題我們現在希望保障的是所有中華民國的國民以後在國外出生\n406370\t427976\t他都不需要跑斷腿來申請戶籍剛剛我也報告現在我們所有的戶政機關現在都已經全國連線所以現在你不需要跑到所謂的所在地其實在任何一個戶政機關透過我們相關的一個申請程序當然如果是國外回來的話\n429037\t440391\t還要經過我們移民機關那現在因為全部都已經全部所有的戶所都全部連線了那以前是並沒有所以這一點跟你做說明好 了解來 謝謝部長\n441721\t464447\t那另外再請教一下來這個法務部長請教一下按照緩刑制度的立法理由說明是惡性輕微的被告或偶發犯出犯改過自新而設而且憲法法庭也解釋臺灣高等法院108年度抗治第890號的裁定要旨也認為緩刑是一個寬點\n466763\t471201\t請問次長 這是寬點 被告也就是受刑人能夠主動放棄緩刑嗎\n473352\t500934\t公務員辦法這是一個判決他沒有辦法放棄的問題他沒有一個放棄的問題對好來公務員辦法26條原來的規定這些相關您都一定非常清楚但是最後一句話但受緩刑宣告者不在此限那今年當然這個我們立法院做相關的這個修訂行政院提出來的這個部分今年6月工作人員辦法修正所以在這個部分裡面\n501955\t525778\t當然在緩刑期間或者是刑刑權因失效的消滅不得登記為候選人請到次長受緩刑不得參選這個在憲法保障我們剛剛前面講到的東西這個人民的參政權您覺得有疑義嗎我們當然今天不只是王家珍這個案子\n527028\t541040\t各位報告因為這個不是選務不是法務部主管而且這個法規也不是本部主管法規那本部當然尊重主管機關及立法的形成所以這部分我們本部沒有辦法有所評論那本市有一個問題\n542501\t558839\t法務部在這部分願意去研究它的釋法性是不是願意來提出來相關大法官來釋憲法務部的立場跟我們報告這個主管法規的主管機關他如果有異議的話按照我們憲法送法他是有權利可以做相關的權利當然主管機關是中選會\n560981\t585248\t法律上的意見本部當作全中華民國的法律意見主管機關我們可以提供相關的意見諮詢這是沒有問題所以這個部分當然也請法務部來研究一下好不好來主委請教一下要不然來換市長請教主委好了主委這個部分您覺得勒有沒有必要大法官再來研究一下\n586769\t599226\t中選會的立場我們在候選人資格審定的時候完全是根據選罷法的規定來辦理但是你們也是當時修法的主管機關嘛這一個條文其實當時在這個地方\n602731\t628625\t這樣講不好意思不只我們國民黨其實民進黨也有很多意見但到後來朝野協商全部被一腳踹翻回到原點按照行政院版本就全部回來了但現在的確發生了問題所以中選會基於主管機關的這一個部分願不願意來思考可以請大法官再來做解釋因為現在是受緩刑的問題\n630925\t646490\t我們作為這個選罷法的執行機關是按照大院所通過的選罷法的規定嚴格的來執行是好來主委您自己也法律人\n647870\t665679\t犯下各式各樣的重罪執行以後都可以參選但是現在的輕罪連緩刑就是所謂的寬點都不能參選這真的其實在公平正義上真的有一些問題所以本席真的建議要來救濟最後一個問題來不好意思因為時間到了最後一個問題\n669221\t683853\t那個高雄市政風處在茶會的時候當然現在有舉報啊就是劉秀鳳理事長甲介舉辦七字大咒民意為這個總統參選來助選啊那請教法務部好了這位法務部\n685415\t702571\t市長有這件事嗎?你們有接到相關的情資嗎?跟我們報告那政風處他我們檢察官在查查會選的時候是民眾的檢舉告發也好或來自政府部門的相關的說證也好他都會匯集到我們檢察機關來做一個請示的研判\n703652\t722807\t好所以這件事情當然現在媒體也有報導的不小那所以高雄市增豐處真的有有這相關的一個情資是這個意思嗎那事實上高雄地檢營就這個情資他也分案在處理了在處理了是好當然在這部分裡面這個市長您也當然這\n724548\t747211\t檢察官的權責但是在這部分裡面當然各個政黨尤其是執政黨的立委其實也在相關參與宴會的現身所以在這部分裡面當然請這個這個真的要好好的來做調查千萬不要我們當然勿枉勿縱但是也不要讓人覺得\n749553\t764585\t這裡面有什麼因人而異或者因政黨而異的事情發生我覺得都是大家不樂見我不會那檢察官會按照收集來請知他在做自己個案在做研判好了解謝謝謝謝主席謝謝接下來請吳立華委員質詢\n","txt":"好謝謝主席主席麻煩內政部林部長、中選會李主委好今天法務部是黃長赤嗎還是黃長赤好那就麻煩\n林部長、李主委、黃承次是委員好好來部長請教一下當然我們正副總統選舉辦理法20條規定在中華民國自由地區連續居住6個月以上而且涉及15年以上的選舉人年滿40歲可以成為總統副總統的候選人請教一下\n這個部分當然內政部或者是中選會可以回答一下我們現在執政黨的副總統參選人蕭美琴女士她何時在台灣涉及的我們先不談國籍我們講戶籍先講戶籍你們有資料嗎請護證師來回答好護證師報告委員我們有查過他的戶籍資料他是\n好來91年註冊戶籍所以在91年以前他在中華民國台灣地區是沒有戶籍的是這個意思嗎對不對\n按照移民法的規定具有中華民國國籍的人他有兩種身份一個是有戶籍的國民一種是無戶籍的國民所以他真正申請戶籍是2002年對不對所以在2002年以前他沒有申請過那可不可以請教按照我們蕭副總統參選人的字數裡面他已經講到一個問題\n他說他為了要申請中華民國的國籍不管是國籍或戶籍幾乎跑斷腿可不可以請教一下在這個部分裡面今天外交部是不是又來到底是既然現在內政部說他自然就有國籍那為什麼他會因為申請國籍而跑斷腿請問內政部有沒有調查或者外交部當時誰拒絕了他\n因為我們在這部分裡面我們可以看到1993年民國82年蕭美琴女士就擔任呂秀蓮辦公室的實習助理在1995年就民國84年開始是民主進步黨駐美代表處的執行長到1996年開始是民進黨中央黨部國際事務部的副主任\n應該這樣講他當時都沒有申請中華民國台灣的戶籍雖然你說他有國籍但是他都沒有申請好 重點來了他說他申請國籍不管國籍或戶籍他現在2002他申請了戶籍因為你說他有國籍本期想請教的是在這裡面到底是哪個單位讓他跑斷腿是你外交部不願意辦\n還是內政部要負責還是台北市哪個互證事務所拒絕他可以講出來嗎要不要講來\n我想不是很清楚那個時候這個蕭美琴女士她辦所謂的這些相關的這個問題不曉得那個情境是怎麼樣子不過這個跟她的國旗基本上是這個我們在法律上基本上是沒有關係來部長我知道你當然會這樣回答\n但是現在蕭美琴女士既然講她當時為了不管是戶籍或國籍啦她是跑斷腿了所以本席現在要求內政部也好外交部也好好好的去清查到底當時是誰讓她跑斷腿既然她有國籍為什麼不能申請戶籍\n或者為什麼他沒有申請戶籍那當然是他的問題但重點是他講了他跑斷腿最後他是要想要國籍來參選立委這是他講的所以這個部分來馬來西亞部長我知道你現在答不出來但是可不可以請您帶回去瞭解一下\n當時他為什麼需要跑斷腿甚至於參選立法委員才能夠來申請戶籍所以他特別講喔您可以去看他說他2002他當選了立委然後他非常開心的去放棄美國籍申請中華民國的國籍他認為他終於回家了好 這也不重要因為你們現在講的是他申請了戶籍他本來就有國籍重點\n一句話就是當時到底是哪個單位讓他這個有國籍的人不能申請或者讓他跑斷腿去申請戶籍這個政績實在要追究\n我想這個這麼多年來應該我們的互證機關或者相關機關的服務應該是增進了不過你剛剛提到那個跟國籍其實基本上沒有沒有關係第二個申請戶籍那個時候其實就是到他戶籍要申請的所在地的這個互證機關去做申請是所以這個部分拜託內政部還有互證師可以去了解一下\n當時這2002年以前我們當時的小美琴女士她跑斷腿去申請但是不得其門而入到底發生了什麼事您可以去調查嗎願意嗎不過委員會跟你報告這個應該跟因為來來來我講這個非常非常重要不然不然不然我講這個非常重要為什麼因為這個牽扯到所有以後在國外出生的\n中華民國國民來申請戶籍他要需要跑斷腿跟蕭美琴一樣的話本席不能接受這不是蕭美琴一個人的問題是所有人的問題\n他31歲以前他沒有申請中華民國的戶籍你雖然說他有他自然就是中華民國有他的國籍但他沒有申請所以他沒有身分證他沒有中華民國的護照這一點外交部是不是因為你沒有戶籍但是應該是沒有中華民國的護照吧所以這個部分裡面不只是他一個人的問題我們現在希望保障的是所有中華民國的國民以後在國外出生\n他都不需要跑斷腿來申請戶籍剛剛我也報告現在我們所有的戶政機關現在都已經全國連線所以現在你不需要跑到所謂的所在地其實在任何一個戶政機關透過我們相關的一個申請程序當然如果是國外回來的話\n還要經過我們移民機關那現在因為全部都已經全部所有的戶所都全部連線了那以前是並沒有所以這一點跟你做說明好 了解來 謝謝部長\n那另外再請教一下來這個法務部長請教一下按照緩刑制度的立法理由說明是惡性輕微的被告或偶發犯出犯改過自新而設而且憲法法庭也解釋臺灣高等法院108年度抗治第890號的裁定要旨也認為緩刑是一個寬點\n請問次長 這是寬點 被告也就是受刑人能夠主動放棄緩刑嗎\n公務員辦法這是一個判決他沒有辦法放棄的問題他沒有一個放棄的問題對好來公務員辦法26條原來的規定這些相關您都一定非常清楚但是最後一句話但受緩刑宣告者不在此限那今年當然這個我們立法院做相關的這個修訂行政院提出來的這個部分今年6月工作人員辦法修正所以在這個部分裡面\n當然在緩刑期間或者是刑刑權因失效的消滅不得登記為候選人請到次長受緩刑不得參選這個在憲法保障我們剛剛前面講到的東西這個人民的參政權您覺得有疑義嗎我們當然今天不只是王家珍這個案子\n各位報告因為這個不是選務不是法務部主管而且這個法規也不是本部主管法規那本部當然尊重主管機關及立法的形成所以這部分我們本部沒有辦法有所評論那本市有一個問題\n法務部在這部分願意去研究它的釋法性是不是願意來提出來相關大法官來釋憲法務部的立場跟我們報告這個主管法規的主管機關他如果有異議的話按照我們憲法送法他是有權利可以做相關的權利當然主管機關是中選會\n法律上的意見本部當作全中華民國的法律意見主管機關我們可以提供相關的意見諮詢這是沒有問題所以這個部分當然也請法務部來研究一下好不好來主委請教一下要不然來換市長請教主委好了主委這個部分您覺得勒有沒有必要大法官再來研究一下\n中選會的立場我們在候選人資格審定的時候完全是根據選罷法的規定來辦理但是你們也是當時修法的主管機關嘛這一個條文其實當時在這個地方\n這樣講不好意思不只我們國民黨其實民進黨也有很多意見但到後來朝野協商全部被一腳踹翻回到原點按照行政院版本就全部回來了但現在的確發生了問題所以中選會基於主管機關的這一個部分願不願意來思考可以請大法官再來做解釋因為現在是受緩刑的問題\n我們作為這個選罷法的執行機關是按照大院所通過的選罷法的規定嚴格的來執行是好來主委您自己也法律人\n犯下各式各樣的重罪執行以後都可以參選但是現在的輕罪連緩刑就是所謂的寬點都不能參選這真的其實在公平正義上真的有一些問題所以本席真的建議要來救濟最後一個問題來不好意思因為時間到了最後一個問題\n那個高雄市政風處在茶會的時候當然現在有舉報啊就是劉秀鳳理事長甲介舉辦七字大咒民意為這個總統參選來助選啊那請教法務部好了這位法務部\n市長有這件事嗎?你們有接到相關的情資嗎?跟我們報告那政風處他我們檢察官在查查會選的時候是民眾的檢舉告發也好或來自政府部門的相關的說證也好他都會匯集到我們檢察機關來做一個請示的研判\n好所以這件事情當然現在媒體也有報導的不小那所以高雄市增豐處真的有有這相關的一個情資是這個意思嗎那事實上高雄地檢營就這個情資他也分案在處理了在處理了是好當然在這部分裡面這個市長您也當然這\n檢察官的權責但是在這部分裡面當然各個政黨尤其是執政黨的立委其實也在相關參與宴會的現身所以在這部分裡面當然請這個這個真的要好好的來做調查千萬不要我們當然勿枉勿縱但是也不要讓人覺得\n這裡面有什麼因人而異或者因政黨而異的事情發生我覺得都是大家不樂見我不會那檢察官會按照收集來請知他在做自己個案在做研判好了解謝謝謝謝主席謝謝接下來請吳立華委員質詢\n","vtt":"WEBVTT\n\n00:05.114 --> 00:13.808\n好謝謝主席主席麻煩內政部林部長、中選會李主委好今天法務部是黃長赤嗎還是黃長赤好那就麻煩\n\n00:15.953 --> 00:35.720\n林部長、李主委、黃承次是委員好好來部長請教一下當然我們正副總統選舉辦理法20條規定在中華民國自由地區連續居住6個月以上而且涉及15年以上的選舉人年滿40歲可以成為總統副總統的候選人請教一下\n\n00:36.620 --> 00:52.889\n這個部分當然內政部或者是中選會可以回答一下我們現在執政黨的副總統參選人蕭美琴女士她何時在台灣涉及的我們先不談國籍我們講戶籍先講戶籍你們有資料嗎請護證師來回答好護證師報告委員我們有查過他的戶籍資料他是\n\n01:08.570 --> 01:17.475\n好來91年註冊戶籍所以在91年以前他在中華民國台灣地區是沒有戶籍的是這個意思嗎對不對\n\n01:19.788 --> 01:41.519\n按照移民法的規定具有中華民國國籍的人他有兩種身份一個是有戶籍的國民一種是無戶籍的國民所以他真正申請戶籍是2002年對不對所以在2002年以前他沒有申請過那可不可以請教按照我們蕭副總統參選人的字數裡面他已經講到一個問題\n\n01:46.061 --> 02:09.397\n他說他為了要申請中華民國的國籍不管是國籍或戶籍幾乎跑斷腿可不可以請教一下在這個部分裡面今天外交部是不是又來到底是既然現在內政部說他自然就有國籍那為什麼他會因為申請國籍而跑斷腿請問內政部有沒有調查或者外交部當時誰拒絕了他\n\n02:11.738 --> 02:33.696\n因為我們在這部分裡面我們可以看到1993年民國82年蕭美琴女士就擔任呂秀蓮辦公室的實習助理在1995年就民國84年開始是民主進步黨駐美代表處的執行長到1996年開始是民進黨中央黨部國際事務部的副主任\n\n02:35.862 --> 03:04.101\n應該這樣講他當時都沒有申請中華民國台灣的戶籍雖然你說他有國籍但是他都沒有申請好重點來了他說他申請國籍不管國籍或戶籍他現在2002他申請了戶籍因為你說他有國籍本期想請教的是在這裡面到底是哪個單位讓他跑斷腿是你外交部不願意辦\n\n03:05.181 --> 03:12.486\n還是內政部要負責還是台北市哪個互證事務所拒絕他可以講出來嗎要不要講來\n\n03:17.110 --> 03:36.889\n我想不是很清楚那個時候這個蕭美琴女士她辦所謂的這些相關的這個問題不曉得那個情境是怎麼樣子不過這個跟她的國旗基本上是這個我們在法律上基本上是沒有關係來部長我知道你當然會這樣回答\n\n03:37.990 --> 03:58.166\n但是現在蕭美琴女士既然講她當時為了不管是戶籍或國籍啦她是跑斷腿了所以本席現在要求內政部也好外交部也好好好的去清查到底當時是誰讓她跑斷腿既然她有國籍為什麼不能申請戶籍\n\n04:00.137 --> 04:18.329\n或者為什麼他沒有申請戶籍那當然是他的問題但重點是他講了他跑斷腿最後他是要想要國籍來參選立委這是他講的所以這個部分來馬來西亞部長我知道你現在答不出來但是可不可以請您帶回去瞭解一下\n\n04:20.128 --> 04:48.241\n當時他為什麼需要跑斷腿甚至於參選立法委員才能夠來申請戶籍所以他特別講喔您可以去看他說他2002他當選了立委然後他非常開心的去放棄美國籍申請中華民國的國籍他認為他終於回家了好這也不重要因為你們現在講的是他申請了戶籍他本來就有國籍重點\n\n04:49.181 --> 05:00.276\n一句話就是當時到底是哪個單位讓他這個有國籍的人不能申請或者讓他跑斷腿去申請戶籍這個政績實在要追究\n\n05:05.910 --> 05:28.958\n我想這個這麼多年來應該我們的互證機關或者相關機關的服務應該是增進了不過你剛剛提到那個跟國籍其實基本上沒有沒有關係第二個申請戶籍那個時候其實就是到他戶籍要申請的所在地的這個互證機關去做申請是所以這個部分拜託內政部還有互證師可以去了解一下\n\n05:31.935 --> 05:58.465\n當時這2002年以前我們當時的小美琴女士她跑斷腿去申請但是不得其門而入到底發生了什麼事您可以去調查嗎願意嗎不過委員會跟你報告這個應該跟因為來來來我講這個非常非常重要不然不然不然我講這個非常重要為什麼因為這個牽扯到所有以後在國外出生的\n\n05:59.622 --> 06:14.271\n中華民國國民來申請戶籍他要需要跑斷腿跟蕭美琴一樣的話本席不能接受這不是蕭美琴一個人的問題是所有人的問題\n\n06:15.950 --> 06:45.430\n他31歲以前他沒有申請中華民國的戶籍你雖然說他有他自然就是中華民國有他的國籍但他沒有申請所以他沒有身分證他沒有中華民國的護照這一點外交部是不是因為你沒有戶籍但是應該是沒有中華民國的護照吧所以這個部分裡面不只是他一個人的問題我們現在希望保障的是所有中華民國的國民以後在國外出生\n\n06:46.370 --> 07:07.976\n他都不需要跑斷腿來申請戶籍剛剛我也報告現在我們所有的戶政機關現在都已經全國連線所以現在你不需要跑到所謂的所在地其實在任何一個戶政機關透過我們相關的一個申請程序當然如果是國外回來的話\n\n07:09.037 --> 07:20.391\n還要經過我們移民機關那現在因為全部都已經全部所有的戶所都全部連線了那以前是並沒有所以這一點跟你做說明好了解來謝謝部長\n\n07:21.721 --> 07:44.447\n那另外再請教一下來這個法務部長請教一下按照緩刑制度的立法理由說明是惡性輕微的被告或偶發犯出犯改過自新而設而且憲法法庭也解釋臺灣高等法院108年度抗治第890號的裁定要旨也認為緩刑是一個寬點\n\n07:46.763 --> 07:51.201\n請問次長這是寬點被告也就是受刑人能夠主動放棄緩刑嗎\n\n07:53.352 --> 08:20.934\n公務員辦法這是一個判決他沒有辦法放棄的問題他沒有一個放棄的問題對好來公務員辦法26條原來的規定這些相關您都一定非常清楚但是最後一句話但受緩刑宣告者不在此限那今年當然這個我們立法院做相關的這個修訂行政院提出來的這個部分今年6月工作人員辦法修正所以在這個部分裡面\n\n08:21.955 --> 08:45.778\n當然在緩刑期間或者是刑刑權因失效的消滅不得登記為候選人請到次長受緩刑不得參選這個在憲法保障我們剛剛前面講到的東西這個人民的參政權您覺得有疑義嗎我們當然今天不只是王家珍這個案子\n\n08:47.028 --> 09:01.040\n各位報告因為這個不是選務不是法務部主管而且這個法規也不是本部主管法規那本部當然尊重主管機關及立法的形成所以這部分我們本部沒有辦法有所評論那本市有一個問題\n\n09:02.501 --> 09:18.839\n法務部在這部分願意去研究它的釋法性是不是願意來提出來相關大法官來釋憲法務部的立場跟我們報告這個主管法規的主管機關他如果有異議的話按照我們憲法送法他是有權利可以做相關的權利當然主管機關是中選會\n\n09:20.981 --> 09:45.248\n法律上的意見本部當作全中華民國的法律意見主管機關我們可以提供相關的意見諮詢這是沒有問題所以這個部分當然也請法務部來研究一下好不好來主委請教一下要不然來換市長請教主委好了主委這個部分您覺得勒有沒有必要大法官再來研究一下\n\n09:46.769 --> 09:59.226\n中選會的立場我們在候選人資格審定的時候完全是根據選罷法的規定來辦理但是你們也是當時修法的主管機關嘛這一個條文其實當時在這個地方\n\n10:02.731 --> 10:28.625\n這樣講不好意思不只我們國民黨其實民進黨也有很多意見但到後來朝野協商全部被一腳踹翻回到原點按照行政院版本就全部回來了但現在的確發生了問題所以中選會基於主管機關的這一個部分願不願意來思考可以請大法官再來做解釋因為現在是受緩刑的問題\n\n10:30.925 --> 10:46.490\n我們作為這個選罷法的執行機關是按照大院所通過的選罷法的規定嚴格的來執行是好來主委您自己也法律人\n\n10:47.870 --> 11:05.679\n犯下各式各樣的重罪執行以後都可以參選但是現在的輕罪連緩刑就是所謂的寬點都不能參選這真的其實在公平正義上真的有一些問題所以本席真的建議要來救濟最後一個問題來不好意思因為時間到了最後一個問題\n\n11:09.221 --> 11:23.853\n那個高雄市政風處在茶會的時候當然現在有舉報啊就是劉秀鳳理事長甲介舉辦七字大咒民意為這個總統參選來助選啊那請教法務部好了這位法務部\n\n11:25.415 --> 11:42.571\n市長有這件事嗎?你們有接到相關的情資嗎?跟我們報告那政風處他我們檢察官在查查會選的時候是民眾的檢舉告發也好或來自政府部門的相關的說證也好他都會匯集到我們檢察機關來做一個請示的研判\n\n11:43.652 --> 12:02.807\n好所以這件事情當然現在媒體也有報導的不小那所以高雄市增豐處真的有有這相關的一個情資是這個意思嗎那事實上高雄地檢營就這個情資他也分案在處理了在處理了是好當然在這部分裡面這個市長您也當然這\n\n12:04.548 --> 12:27.211\n檢察官的權責但是在這部分裡面當然各個政黨尤其是執政黨的立委其實也在相關參與宴會的現身所以在這部分裡面當然請這個這個真的要好好的來做調查千萬不要我們當然勿枉勿縱但是也不要讓人覺得\n\n12:29.553 --> 12:44.585\n這裡面有什麼因人而異或者因政黨而異的事情發生我覺得都是大家不樂見我不會那檢察官會按照收集來請知他在做自己個案在做研判好了解謝謝謝謝主席謝謝接下來請吳立華委員質詢\n\n","segments":[{"start":5.114,"end":13.808,"text":"好謝謝主席主席麻煩內政部林部長、中選會李主委好今天法務部是黃長赤嗎還是黃長赤好那就麻煩"},{"start":15.953,"end":35.72,"text":"林部長、李主委、黃承次是委員好好來部長請教一下當然我們正副總統選舉辦理法20條規定在中華民國自由地區連續居住6個月以上而且涉及15年以上的選舉人年滿40歲可以成為總統副總統的候選人請教一下"},{"start":36.62,"end":52.889,"text":"這個部分當然內政部或者是中選會可以回答一下我們現在執政黨的副總統參選人蕭美琴女士她何時在台灣涉及的我們先不談國籍我們講戶籍先講戶籍你們有資料嗎請護證師來回答好護證師報告委員我們有查過他的戶籍資料他是"},{"start":68.57,"end":77.475,"text":"好來91年註冊戶籍所以在91年以前他在中華民國台灣地區是沒有戶籍的是這個意思嗎對不對"},{"start":79.788,"end":101.519,"text":"按照移民法的規定具有中華民國國籍的人他有兩種身份一個是有戶籍的國民一種是無戶籍的國民所以他真正申請戶籍是2002年對不對所以在2002年以前他沒有申請過那可不可以請教按照我們蕭副總統參選人的字數裡面他已經講到一個問題"},{"start":106.061,"end":129.397,"text":"他說他為了要申請中華民國的國籍不管是國籍或戶籍幾乎跑斷腿可不可以請教一下在這個部分裡面今天外交部是不是又來到底是既然現在內政部說他自然就有國籍那為什麼他會因為申請國籍而跑斷腿請問內政部有沒有調查或者外交部當時誰拒絕了他"},{"start":131.738,"end":153.696,"text":"因為我們在這部分裡面我們可以看到1993年民國82年蕭美琴女士就擔任呂秀蓮辦公室的實習助理在1995年就民國84年開始是民主進步黨駐美代表處的執行長到1996年開始是民進黨中央黨部國際事務部的副主任"},{"start":155.862,"end":184.101,"text":"應該這樣講他當時都沒有申請中華民國台灣的戶籍雖然你說他有國籍但是他都沒有申請好 重點來了他說他申請國籍不管國籍或戶籍他現在2002他申請了戶籍因為你說他有國籍本期想請教的是在這裡面到底是哪個單位讓他跑斷腿是你外交部不願意辦"},{"start":185.181,"end":192.486,"text":"還是內政部要負責還是台北市哪個互證事務所拒絕他可以講出來嗎要不要講來"},{"start":197.11,"end":216.889,"text":"我想不是很清楚那個時候這個蕭美琴女士她辦所謂的這些相關的這個問題不曉得那個情境是怎麼樣子不過這個跟她的國旗基本上是這個我們在法律上基本上是沒有關係來部長我知道你當然會這樣回答"},{"start":217.99,"end":238.166,"text":"但是現在蕭美琴女士既然講她當時為了不管是戶籍或國籍啦她是跑斷腿了所以本席現在要求內政部也好外交部也好好好的去清查到底當時是誰讓她跑斷腿既然她有國籍為什麼不能申請戶籍"},{"start":240.137,"end":258.329,"text":"或者為什麼他沒有申請戶籍那當然是他的問題但重點是他講了他跑斷腿最後他是要想要國籍來參選立委這是他講的所以這個部分來馬來西亞部長我知道你現在答不出來但是可不可以請您帶回去瞭解一下"},{"start":260.128,"end":288.241,"text":"當時他為什麼需要跑斷腿甚至於參選立法委員才能夠來申請戶籍所以他特別講喔您可以去看他說他2002他當選了立委然後他非常開心的去放棄美國籍申請中華民國的國籍他認為他終於回家了好 這也不重要因為你們現在講的是他申請了戶籍他本來就有國籍重點"},{"start":289.181,"end":300.276,"text":"一句話就是當時到底是哪個單位讓他這個有國籍的人不能申請或者讓他跑斷腿去申請戶籍這個政績實在要追究"},{"start":305.91,"end":328.958,"text":"我想這個這麼多年來應該我們的互證機關或者相關機關的服務應該是增進了不過你剛剛提到那個跟國籍其實基本上沒有沒有關係第二個申請戶籍那個時候其實就是到他戶籍要申請的所在地的這個互證機關去做申請是所以這個部分拜託內政部還有互證師可以去了解一下"},{"start":331.935,"end":358.465,"text":"當時這2002年以前我們當時的小美琴女士她跑斷腿去申請但是不得其門而入到底發生了什麼事您可以去調查嗎願意嗎不過委員會跟你報告這個應該跟因為來來來我講這個非常非常重要不然不然不然我講這個非常重要為什麼因為這個牽扯到所有以後在國外出生的"},{"start":359.622,"end":374.271,"text":"中華民國國民來申請戶籍他要需要跑斷腿跟蕭美琴一樣的話本席不能接受這不是蕭美琴一個人的問題是所有人的問題"},{"start":375.95,"end":405.43,"text":"他31歲以前他沒有申請中華民國的戶籍你雖然說他有他自然就是中華民國有他的國籍但他沒有申請所以他沒有身分證他沒有中華民國的護照這一點外交部是不是因為你沒有戶籍但是應該是沒有中華民國的護照吧所以這個部分裡面不只是他一個人的問題我們現在希望保障的是所有中華民國的國民以後在國外出生"},{"start":406.37,"end":427.976,"text":"他都不需要跑斷腿來申請戶籍剛剛我也報告現在我們所有的戶政機關現在都已經全國連線所以現在你不需要跑到所謂的所在地其實在任何一個戶政機關透過我們相關的一個申請程序當然如果是國外回來的話"},{"start":429.037,"end":440.391,"text":"還要經過我們移民機關那現在因為全部都已經全部所有的戶所都全部連線了那以前是並沒有所以這一點跟你做說明好 了解來 謝謝部長"},{"start":441.721,"end":464.447,"text":"那另外再請教一下來這個法務部長請教一下按照緩刑制度的立法理由說明是惡性輕微的被告或偶發犯出犯改過自新而設而且憲法法庭也解釋臺灣高等法院108年度抗治第890號的裁定要旨也認為緩刑是一個寬點"},{"start":466.763,"end":471.201,"text":"請問次長 這是寬點 被告也就是受刑人能夠主動放棄緩刑嗎"},{"start":473.352,"end":500.934,"text":"公務員辦法這是一個判決他沒有辦法放棄的問題他沒有一個放棄的問題對好來公務員辦法26條原來的規定這些相關您都一定非常清楚但是最後一句話但受緩刑宣告者不在此限那今年當然這個我們立法院做相關的這個修訂行政院提出來的這個部分今年6月工作人員辦法修正所以在這個部分裡面"},{"start":501.955,"end":525.778,"text":"當然在緩刑期間或者是刑刑權因失效的消滅不得登記為候選人請到次長受緩刑不得參選這個在憲法保障我們剛剛前面講到的東西這個人民的參政權您覺得有疑義嗎我們當然今天不只是王家珍這個案子"},{"start":527.028,"end":541.04,"text":"各位報告因為這個不是選務不是法務部主管而且這個法規也不是本部主管法規那本部當然尊重主管機關及立法的形成所以這部分我們本部沒有辦法有所評論那本市有一個問題"},{"start":542.501,"end":558.839,"text":"法務部在這部分願意去研究它的釋法性是不是願意來提出來相關大法官來釋憲法務部的立場跟我們報告這個主管法規的主管機關他如果有異議的話按照我們憲法送法他是有權利可以做相關的權利當然主管機關是中選會"},{"start":560.981,"end":585.248,"text":"法律上的意見本部當作全中華民國的法律意見主管機關我們可以提供相關的意見諮詢這是沒有問題所以這個部分當然也請法務部來研究一下好不好來主委請教一下要不然來換市長請教主委好了主委這個部分您覺得勒有沒有必要大法官再來研究一下"},{"start":586.769,"end":599.226,"text":"中選會的立場我們在候選人資格審定的時候完全是根據選罷法的規定來辦理但是你們也是當時修法的主管機關嘛這一個條文其實當時在這個地方"},{"start":602.731,"end":628.625,"text":"這樣講不好意思不只我們國民黨其實民進黨也有很多意見但到後來朝野協商全部被一腳踹翻回到原點按照行政院版本就全部回來了但現在的確發生了問題所以中選會基於主管機關的這一個部分願不願意來思考可以請大法官再來做解釋因為現在是受緩刑的問題"},{"start":630.925,"end":646.49,"text":"我們作為這個選罷法的執行機關是按照大院所通過的選罷法的規定嚴格的來執行是好來主委您自己也法律人"},{"start":647.87,"end":665.679,"text":"犯下各式各樣的重罪執行以後都可以參選但是現在的輕罪連緩刑就是所謂的寬點都不能參選這真的其實在公平正義上真的有一些問題所以本席真的建議要來救濟最後一個問題來不好意思因為時間到了最後一個問題"},{"start":669.221,"end":683.853,"text":"那個高雄市政風處在茶會的時候當然現在有舉報啊就是劉秀鳳理事長甲介舉辦七字大咒民意為這個總統參選來助選啊那請教法務部好了這位法務部"},{"start":685.415,"end":702.571,"text":"市長有這件事嗎?你們有接到相關的情資嗎?跟我們報告那政風處他我們檢察官在查查會選的時候是民眾的檢舉告發也好或來自政府部門的相關的說證也好他都會匯集到我們檢察機關來做一個請示的研判"},{"start":703.652,"end":722.807,"text":"好所以這件事情當然現在媒體也有報導的不小那所以高雄市增豐處真的有有這相關的一個情資是這個意思嗎那事實上高雄地檢營就這個情資他也分案在處理了在處理了是好當然在這部分裡面這個市長您也當然這"},{"start":724.548,"end":747.211,"text":"檢察官的權責但是在這部分裡面當然各個政黨尤其是執政黨的立委其實也在相關參與宴會的現身所以在這部分裡面當然請這個這個真的要好好的來做調查千萬不要我們當然勿枉勿縱但是也不要讓人覺得"},{"start":749.553,"end":764.585,"text":"這裡面有什麼因人而異或者因政黨而異的事情發生我覺得都是大家不樂見我不會那檢察官會按照收集來請知他在做自己個案在做研判好了解謝謝謝謝主席謝謝接下來請吳立華委員質詢"}]}}}}