{"id":148981,"url":"https://ivod.ly.gov.tw/Play/Clip/1M/148981","video_url":"https://ivod-lyvod.cdn.hinet.net/vod_1/_definst_/mp4:1MClips/a0ee4ec253a720298fbfca13a5d663ef94fc233f19f174e7c986728e607a03225378fc16f52fc0c15ea18f28b6918d91.mp4/playlist.m3u8","委員名稱":"陳椒華","委員發言時間":"13:15:34 - 13:22:41","影片長度":"00:07:07","會議時間":"2023-12-11T10:00:00+08:00","會議名稱":"立法院第10屆第8會期內政委員會第13次全體委員會議（事由：一、邀請中央選舉委員會主任委員、內政部部長、警政署署長、消防署署長、海巡署署長、原住民族委員會主任委員、國防部、法務部就「第16任總統副總統及第11屆立法委員選舉選務工作辦理情形、執勤軍警消海巡人員投票權益、文化健康站等工作人員於選舉期間之行政中立」進行專題報告，並備質詢；另邀請司法院列席備詢。二、原住民身分法：(一)審查行政院函請審議「原住民身分法修正草案」案。(二)繼續審查委員鄭天財SraKacaw等16人擬具「原住民身分法第五條、第七條及第九條條文修正草案」案。(三)繼續審查委員劉櫂豪等18人擬具「原住民身分法第九條條文修正草案」案。(四)繼續審查委員郭國文等16人擬具「原住民身分法第二條條文修正草案」案。(五)繼續審查委員張宏陸等20人擬具「原住民身分法第二條條文修正草案」案。(六)繼續審查委員鄭天財SraKacaw等18人擬具「原住民身分法第四條及第八條之一條文修正草案」案。(七)審查委員蔡適應等25人擬具「原住民身分法第四條、第七條及第八條條文修正草案」案。(八)審查委員陳明文等16人擬具「原住民身分法第九條條文修正草案」案。三、原住民族工作權保障法：(一)審查行政院函請審議「原住民族工作權保障法部分條文修正草案」案。(二)審查委員鄭天財SraKacaw等17人擬具「原住民族工作權保障法部分條文修正草案」案。(三)審查委員伍麗華Saidhai Tahovecahe等18人擬具「原住民族工作權保障法修正草案」案。(四)審查委員陳瑩等16人擬具「原住民族工作權保障法第十一條條文修正草案」案。(五)審查委員陳瑩等17人擬具「原住民族工作權保障法第四條條文修正草案」案。(六)審查委員廖國棟等25人擬具「原住民族工作權保障法部分條文修正草案」案。(七)審查委員孔文吉等22人擬具「原住民族工作權保障法部分條文修正草案」案。四、姓名條例：(一)繼續審查委員鄭天財SraKacaw等16人擬具「姓名條例部分條文修正草案」案。(二)繼續審查委員伍麗華SaidhaiTahovecahe等20人擬具「姓名條例第二條及第四條條文修正草案」案。(三)繼續審查委員羅美玲等18人擬具「姓名條例第九條條文修正草案」案。(四)繼續審查委員廖國棟等16人擬具「姓名條例部分條文修正草案」案。【12月11日、14日兩天一次會】）","meet":{"tmpMeeting":null,"title":"第10屆第8會期內政委員會第13次全體委員會議","term":10,"type":"委員會","sessionPeriod":8,"sessionTimes":13,"committees":[15],"id":"委員會-10-8-15-13"},"date":"2023-12-11","duration":427,"end_time":"2023-12-11T13:22:41+08:00","start_time":"2023-12-11T13:15:34+08:00","features":["ai-transcript","gazette"],"type":"Clip","gazette":{"lineno":1137,"blocks":[["陳委員椒華：（13時15分）謝謝召委。請內政部長。"],["主席：林部長請。"],["林部長右昌：委員好。"],["陳委員椒華：部長好。今天我還是要提一個上次已經質詢過的議題想要來請教部長，就是有關土地鑑界的問題。關於土地鑑界有一個案子，目前已經訴訟超過十年，就是竹北一個地政的案子。這個案子上上禮拜監委有跟本席碰面，當面跟他說明，在說明之後，其中一個很主要的爭議就是在陳情人蓋房子之前到底有沒有鑑界，你可以看到這個圖是房子蓋好之後去做保存登記的鑑界。興建之前有沒有鑑界？因為地政單位這邊給法院的資料是蓋房子之前沒有鑑界，但是根據提出的一些資料，監委看了以後，發現在蓋房子之前，有90年的鑑界資料及91年的鑑界資料。我要跟部長詢問的是，因為現在給法院的證據也是地政單位給的，如果地政單位這邊有不當的證詞，像部長現在看到這個案子就是竹北地政單位一直告訴法院說當事人沒有鑑界，但是在蓋房子之前，包括90年、89年都有鑑界資料，而且和92年蓋好房子時的鑑界資料都一樣。如果地政單位沒有給法院正確的資料，包括沒有給監察院正確的資料，會導致陳情人的權益受損。內政部現在有關土地鑑界的機制，包括重測、圖解數值化這些問題都很容易造成爭議，所以就會訴訟，也因此本席接到非常多的陳情案例。我想請問部長，這個要怎麼解決呢？假如地政單位球員兼裁判，提出錯誤的證詞，會讓陳情人的權益嚴重受損。我剛剛講的這個案子的確就是，因為陳情人的房子面臨被拆的問題，現在監察院的監委願意重新調查，本席認為當一個受害者沒有能力表達正確的資訊，而且地政機關不願意提供資料的時候，這個鑑界會造成很多不幸，比如重測之後整個地界改了，重測的時候沒有通知多數的人去指界，而是由地政機關去協助指界的時候，的確有很多地界都被改了，被改的時候有些人的地變多了，有些人的地卻變少了，所以爭議就一直產生，而法院訴訟的這種案子也就變得很多。本席想要講的是，像這樣的情況，我們在指界的時候要怎麼去修正或檢討這個問題？"],["林部長右昌：非常謝謝委員，雖然這個個案我不是非常清楚，不過地籍上面的偏差的確是有的，因為技術的因素或是年代登記的因素，這種狀況是有的。剛剛委員特別提到球員兼裁判或是地政人員不願意提供正確的資料，這應該是不容許的，地政人員必須提供正確的資料才對。剛才委員提到好幾個問題，包括他之前是不是有鑑界、之後是不是有偏移的狀況，這可能都會分涉到不同層次的問題。"],["陳委員椒華：部長，你剛剛說的是不允許，請問我們有什麼樣的防弊機制？畢竟鑑界也是地政機關，法院作證也是地政機關，它當然不願意承認它有任何疏失嘛！還有剛剛所說有關指界的部分，像彰化二水或二林那邊就有一個案例，就是6,500戶當中只有200戶實際去指界，所以重測做出來的結果是大偏移，我現在希望內政部要重新檢討。"],["林部長右昌：是。"],["陳委員椒華：就是已經做的部分如果有嚴重的偏移，就不應該敷衍、閃躲，不願意面對事實。另外是在重測的時候，怎麼去修相關的作業指引或辦法，也就是指界至少要有一半以上才能進行重測，不然這樣的重測結果等於造成另外一個大災難。"],["林部長右昌：是，謝謝委員。有關地政的測量及指界，地政機關都有相關規定，今天因為地政司沒有到……"],["陳委員椒華：我知道。"],["林部長右昌：是不是我再請地政司向委員報告。另外，委員剛剛特別提到是不是有相關的規定或指引需要加以修正，這部分我也會跟地政司討論。"],["陳委員椒華：對，就是要提醒部長這個部分一定要重新檢討、修正，避免更多的錯誤發生。"],["林部長右昌：是，我會請地政司再跟我報告。"],["陳委員椒華：好，謝謝。"],["林部長右昌：謝謝。"],["主席：謝謝，請回座。","羅明才、羅明才、羅明才委員不在。","登記發言委員除不在場者外，其餘均已發言完畢，詢答結束。委員林文瑞、陳琬惠、邱臣遠所提書面質詢，列入紀錄，刊登公報。書面質詢及未及答復部分，請相關單位於一週內以書面答復，並副知本會。"]],"agenda":{"page_end":156,"meet_id":"委員會-10-8-15-13","speakers":["游毓蘭","賴品妤","陳玉珍","張宏陸","王美惠","陳以信","黃世杰","鄭天財Sra Kacaw","羅美玲","莊瑞雄","江啟臣","李德維","伍麗華Saidhai‧Tahovecahe","陳椒華","林文瑞","陳琬惠","邱臣遠","廖國棟Sufin‧Siluko","陳瑩"],"page_start":1,"meetingDate":["2023-12-11"],"gazette_id":"1130201","agenda_lcidc_ids":["1130201_00002"],"meet_name":"立法院第10屆第8會期內政委員會第13次全體委員會議紀錄","content":"一、邀請中央選舉委員會主任委員、內政部部長、警政署署長、消防署署長、海巡署署長、原住\n民族委員會主任委員、國防部、法務部就「第16任總統副總統及第11屆立法委員選舉選務工作辦\n理情形、執勤軍警消海巡人員投票權益、文化健康站等工作人員於選舉期間之行政中立」進行專\n題報告，並備質詢；另邀請司法院列席備詢；二、原住民身分法：(一)審查行政院函請審議「原\n住民身分法修正草案」案、(二)繼續審查委員鄭天財 Sra Kacaw 等16人擬具「原住民身分法第五\n條、第七條及第九條條文修正草案」案、(三)繼續審查委員劉櫂豪等18人擬具「原住民身分法第\n九條條文修正草案」案、(四)繼續審查委員郭國文等16人擬具「原住民身分法第二條條文修正草\n案」案、(五)繼續審查委員張宏陸等20人擬具「原住民身分法第二條條文修正草案」案、(六)繼\n續審查委員鄭天財 Sra Kacaw 等18人擬具「原住民身分法第四條及第八條之一條文修正草案」\n案、( 七) 審查委員蔡適應等25 人擬具「原住民身分法第四條、第七條及第八條條文修正草案」\n案、(八)審查委員陳明文等16人擬具「原住民身分法第九條條文修正草案」案；三、原住民族工\n作權保障法：(一)審查行政院函請審議「原住民族工作權保障法部分條文修正草案」案、(二)審\n查委員鄭天財 Sra Kacaw 等17人擬具「原住民族工作權保障法部分條文修正草案」案、(三)審查\n委員伍麗華 Saidhai Tahovecahe 等18人擬具「原住民族工作權保障法修正草案」案、(四)審查\n委員陳瑩等16人擬具「原住民族工作權保障法第十一條條文修正草案」案、(五)審查委員陳瑩等\n17 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402.684, \"score\": 0.667}, {\"word\": \"員\"}, {\"word\": \"不\", \"start\": 402.684, \"end\": 402.704, \"score\": 0.0}, {\"word\": \"在\", \"start\": 402.704, \"end\": 402.724, \"score\": 0.999}], \"language\": \"zh\"}","srt":"1\n00:00:02,920 --> 00:00:05,081\n謝謝召委請內政部長林部長請委員好部長好部長我今天還是跟上次有質詢過的一個議題要來請教部長就是有關我們土地建界\n\n2\n00:00:25,560 --> 00:00:46,756\n那土地間界的話呢有一個案子因為已經訴訟然後有超過10年就是竹北的一個地震的案子那這個案子呢後來在上上禮拜兼委兼委有跟本席來\n\n3\n00:00:49,125 --> 00:01:02,995\n當面有跟他說明說明之後其中一個很主要的爭議就是在陳青仁蓋房子前到底有沒有見解那你看到這個圖是\n\n4\n00:01:04,229 --> 00:01:33,471\n房子蓋好之後呢去做保存登記的見解做保存登記的見解那新建之前呢新建之前有沒有見解那因為地政這邊給法院的資料是蓋房子之前沒有見解但是呢提出的一些資料監委看了以後就是有蓋房子之前\n\n5\n00:01:34,530 --> 00:01:58,931\n包括有90年的間接資料還有這個91年的間接資料那這些資料就是怎麼講呢我要跟部長詢問的因為現在給法院的證據也是地政給的然後呢如果地政這邊有不當的這個證詞好像\n\n6\n00:02:03,462 --> 00:02:30,459\n部長你現在看到這個案子就是竹北地震一直告訴法院說當事人沒有見解但是在蓋房子之前有90年有89年都有見解資料然後跟蓋好房子的92年的見解資料都一樣那因為就是如果地震沒有給法院正確的資料包括沒有給\n\n7\n00:02:32,601 --> 00:02:57,874\n監察院正確的資料導致我們澄清人的權益受損那內政部我們現在的機制土地建界的機制重測或者是圖解、數值化這些問題都很容易造成爭議所以就會訴訟所以本席接到非常多的陳情案例那我是想問部長這個要怎麼來解決\n\n8\n00:03:01,721 --> 00:03:23,457\n假如地政機單位求援兼裁判然後錯誤的證詞會讓我們澄清人的權益嚴重受損那我剛剛講的這個案子的確就是的確就是因為澄清人房子面臨被拆嘛那現在監察院監委願意重新調查所以本席是認為\n\n9\n00:03:27,756 --> 00:03:54,046\n當一個受害者他沒有能力去表達正確的資訊還有地政機關不願意提供資料的時候這個間接是會造成很多不幸比如說重測之後整個地界改了然後重測的時候沒有通知多數的人去止戒\n\n10\n00:03:55,339 --> 00:04:21,005\n而是由地政機關去協助紫界的時候的確很多地界都被改了那被改的時候有些人地就多了有些人地就少了那爭議就一直產生然後就是法院訴訟就案子這種案子就變了很多那我要講說這樣子的情況我們在紫界的時候要怎麼去修正去檢討這個問題\n\n11\n00:04:26,267 --> 00:04:44,352\n非常謝謝委員因為這個個案我不是非常的清楚不過第幾上面的一個偏差是的確是有的因為這個技術的因素或者當這個年代登記的這個因素\n\n12\n00:04:45,853 --> 00:05:03,150\n這個狀況是有的那不過你剛剛特別提到這個球員兼裁判或是說我們的地政人員他不願意提供正確的資料這個應該是不容許的我們地政人員應該是必須要提供正確的資料才對\n\n13\n00:05:04,852 --> 00:05:20,307\n不過你剛剛提到的有好幾個問題包括說他之前是不是有間接然後之後是有偏移的狀況這可能都會分涉到不同層次的問題\n\n14\n00:05:21,688 --> 00:05:47,529\n那部長你剛剛說的是不允許那如果說我們怎麼樣有一個防避的機制畢竟建界也是地政機關法院作證也是地政機關那他當然不願意承認他有任何疏失還有剛剛說的紙借的部分紙借的部分現在很多數像彰化就有一個案例二水那邊\n\n15\n00:05:49,250 --> 00:06:12,792\n或者20就是彰化一個案例就是有6500戶只有200戶去實際去止戒所以做出來的重測的這個結果是大偏移嘛大偏移那我現在希望內政部要重新檢討就是說已經做了如果有嚴重的偏移不應該去敷衍去閃躲不願意面對\n\n16\n00:06:13,713 --> 00:06:41,964\n事實。」那另外在重測的時候怎麼去修這個相關的作業指引或者是辦法就是你的紙戒應該至少要一半以上那你才能夠進行重測不然你這樣的重測結果等於會造成另外一個大災難是謝謝委員我想那個地震的測量還有它的紙戒其實我們地震機關都有相關規定其實因為地震師沒有到我知道我是不是\n\n17\n00:06:42,504 --> 00:06:42,724\n羅明財、羅明財委員不在\n\n","tsv":"start\tend\ttext\n2920\t5081\t謝謝召委請內政部長林部長請委員好部長好部長我今天還是跟上次有質詢過的一個議題要來請教部長就是有關我們土地建界\n25560\t46756\t那土地間界的話呢有一個案子因為已經訴訟然後有超過10年就是竹北的一個地震的案子那這個案子呢後來在上上禮拜兼委兼委有跟本席來\n49125\t62995\t當面有跟他說明說明之後其中一個很主要的爭議就是在陳青仁蓋房子前到底有沒有見解那你看到這個圖是\n64229\t93471\t房子蓋好之後呢去做保存登記的見解做保存登記的見解那新建之前呢新建之前有沒有見解那因為地政這邊給法院的資料是蓋房子之前沒有見解但是呢提出的一些資料監委看了以後就是有蓋房子之前\n94530\t118931\t包括有90年的間接資料還有這個91年的間接資料那這些資料就是怎麼講呢我要跟部長詢問的因為現在給法院的證據也是地政給的然後呢如果地政這邊有不當的這個證詞好像\n123462\t150459\t部長你現在看到這個案子就是竹北地震一直告訴法院說當事人沒有見解但是在蓋房子之前有90年有89年都有見解資料然後跟蓋好房子的92年的見解資料都一樣那因為就是如果地震沒有給法院正確的資料包括沒有給\n152601\t177874\t監察院正確的資料導致我們澄清人的權益受損那內政部我們現在的機制土地建界的機制重測或者是圖解、數值化這些問題都很容易造成爭議所以就會訴訟所以本席接到非常多的陳情案例那我是想問部長這個要怎麼來解決\n181721\t203457\t假如地政機單位求援兼裁判然後錯誤的證詞會讓我們澄清人的權益嚴重受損那我剛剛講的這個案子的確就是的確就是因為澄清人房子面臨被拆嘛那現在監察院監委願意重新調查所以本席是認為\n207756\t234046\t當一個受害者他沒有能力去表達正確的資訊還有地政機關不願意提供資料的時候這個間接是會造成很多不幸比如說重測之後整個地界改了然後重測的時候沒有通知多數的人去止戒\n235339\t261005\t而是由地政機關去協助紫界的時候的確很多地界都被改了那被改的時候有些人地就多了有些人地就少了那爭議就一直產生然後就是法院訴訟就案子這種案子就變了很多那我要講說這樣子的情況我們在紫界的時候要怎麼去修正去檢討這個問題\n266267\t284352\t非常謝謝委員因為這個個案我不是非常的清楚不過第幾上面的一個偏差是的確是有的因為這個技術的因素或者當這個年代登記的這個因素\n285853\t303150\t這個狀況是有的那不過你剛剛特別提到這個球員兼裁判或是說我們的地政人員他不願意提供正確的資料這個應該是不容許的我們地政人員應該是必須要提供正確的資料才對\n304852\t320307\t不過你剛剛提到的有好幾個問題包括說他之前是不是有間接然後之後是有偏移的狀況這可能都會分涉到不同層次的問題\n321688\t347529\t那部長你剛剛說的是不允許那如果說我們怎麼樣有一個防避的機制畢竟建界也是地政機關法院作證也是地政機關那他當然不願意承認他有任何疏失還有剛剛說的紙借的部分紙借的部分現在很多數像彰化就有一個案例二水那邊\n349250\t372792\t或者20就是彰化一個案例就是有6500戶只有200戶去實際去止戒所以做出來的重測的這個結果是大偏移嘛大偏移那我現在希望內政部要重新檢討就是說已經做了如果有嚴重的偏移不應該去敷衍去閃躲不願意面對\n373713\t401964\t事實。」那另外在重測的時候怎麼去修這個相關的作業指引或者是辦法就是你的紙戒應該至少要一半以上那你才能夠進行重測不然你這樣的重測結果等於會造成另外一個大災難是 謝謝委員我想那個地震的測量還有它的紙戒其實我們地震機關都有相關規定其實因為地震師沒有到我知道我是不是\n402504\t402724\t羅明財、羅明財委員不在\n","txt":"謝謝召委請內政部長林部長請委員好部長好部長我今天還是跟上次有質詢過的一個議題要來請教部長就是有關我們土地建界\n那土地間界的話呢有一個案子因為已經訴訟然後有超過10年就是竹北的一個地震的案子那這個案子呢後來在上上禮拜兼委兼委有跟本席來\n當面有跟他說明說明之後其中一個很主要的爭議就是在陳青仁蓋房子前到底有沒有見解那你看到這個圖是\n房子蓋好之後呢去做保存登記的見解做保存登記的見解那新建之前呢新建之前有沒有見解那因為地政這邊給法院的資料是蓋房子之前沒有見解但是呢提出的一些資料監委看了以後就是有蓋房子之前\n包括有90年的間接資料還有這個91年的間接資料那這些資料就是怎麼講呢我要跟部長詢問的因為現在給法院的證據也是地政給的然後呢如果地政這邊有不當的這個證詞好像\n部長你現在看到這個案子就是竹北地震一直告訴法院說當事人沒有見解但是在蓋房子之前有90年有89年都有見解資料然後跟蓋好房子的92年的見解資料都一樣那因為就是如果地震沒有給法院正確的資料包括沒有給\n監察院正確的資料導致我們澄清人的權益受損那內政部我們現在的機制土地建界的機制重測或者是圖解、數值化這些問題都很容易造成爭議所以就會訴訟所以本席接到非常多的陳情案例那我是想問部長這個要怎麼來解決\n假如地政機單位求援兼裁判然後錯誤的證詞會讓我們澄清人的權益嚴重受損那我剛剛講的這個案子的確就是的確就是因為澄清人房子面臨被拆嘛那現在監察院監委願意重新調查所以本席是認為\n當一個受害者他沒有能力去表達正確的資訊還有地政機關不願意提供資料的時候這個間接是會造成很多不幸比如說重測之後整個地界改了然後重測的時候沒有通知多數的人去止戒\n而是由地政機關去協助紫界的時候的確很多地界都被改了那被改的時候有些人地就多了有些人地就少了那爭議就一直產生然後就是法院訴訟就案子這種案子就變了很多那我要講說這樣子的情況我們在紫界的時候要怎麼去修正去檢討這個問題\n非常謝謝委員因為這個個案我不是非常的清楚不過第幾上面的一個偏差是的確是有的因為這個技術的因素或者當這個年代登記的這個因素\n這個狀況是有的那不過你剛剛特別提到這個球員兼裁判或是說我們的地政人員他不願意提供正確的資料這個應該是不容許的我們地政人員應該是必須要提供正確的資料才對\n不過你剛剛提到的有好幾個問題包括說他之前是不是有間接然後之後是有偏移的狀況這可能都會分涉到不同層次的問題\n那部長你剛剛說的是不允許那如果說我們怎麼樣有一個防避的機制畢竟建界也是地政機關法院作證也是地政機關那他當然不願意承認他有任何疏失還有剛剛說的紙借的部分紙借的部分現在很多數像彰化就有一個案例二水那邊\n或者20就是彰化一個案例就是有6500戶只有200戶去實際去止戒所以做出來的重測的這個結果是大偏移嘛大偏移那我現在希望內政部要重新檢討就是說已經做了如果有嚴重的偏移不應該去敷衍去閃躲不願意面對\n事實。」那另外在重測的時候怎麼去修這個相關的作業指引或者是辦法就是你的紙戒應該至少要一半以上那你才能夠進行重測不然你這樣的重測結果等於會造成另外一個大災難是 謝謝委員我想那個地震的測量還有它的紙戒其實我們地震機關都有相關規定其實因為地震師沒有到我知道我是不是\n羅明財、羅明財委員不在\n","vtt":"WEBVTT\n\n00:02.920 --> 00:05.081\n謝謝召委請內政部長林部長請委員好部長好部長我今天還是跟上次有質詢過的一個議題要來請教部長就是有關我們土地建界\n\n00:25.560 --> 00:46.756\n那土地間界的話呢有一個案子因為已經訴訟然後有超過10年就是竹北的一個地震的案子那這個案子呢後來在上上禮拜兼委兼委有跟本席來\n\n00:49.125 --> 01:02.995\n當面有跟他說明說明之後其中一個很主要的爭議就是在陳青仁蓋房子前到底有沒有見解那你看到這個圖是\n\n01:04.229 --> 01:33.471\n房子蓋好之後呢去做保存登記的見解做保存登記的見解那新建之前呢新建之前有沒有見解那因為地政這邊給法院的資料是蓋房子之前沒有見解但是呢提出的一些資料監委看了以後就是有蓋房子之前\n\n01:34.530 --> 01:58.931\n包括有90年的間接資料還有這個91年的間接資料那這些資料就是怎麼講呢我要跟部長詢問的因為現在給法院的證據也是地政給的然後呢如果地政這邊有不當的這個證詞好像\n\n02:03.462 --> 02:30.459\n部長你現在看到這個案子就是竹北地震一直告訴法院說當事人沒有見解但是在蓋房子之前有90年有89年都有見解資料然後跟蓋好房子的92年的見解資料都一樣那因為就是如果地震沒有給法院正確的資料包括沒有給\n\n02:32.601 --> 02:57.874\n監察院正確的資料導致我們澄清人的權益受損那內政部我們現在的機制土地建界的機制重測或者是圖解、數值化這些問題都很容易造成爭議所以就會訴訟所以本席接到非常多的陳情案例那我是想問部長這個要怎麼來解決\n\n03:01.721 --> 03:23.457\n假如地政機單位求援兼裁判然後錯誤的證詞會讓我們澄清人的權益嚴重受損那我剛剛講的這個案子的確就是的確就是因為澄清人房子面臨被拆嘛那現在監察院監委願意重新調查所以本席是認為\n\n03:27.756 --> 03:54.046\n當一個受害者他沒有能力去表達正確的資訊還有地政機關不願意提供資料的時候這個間接是會造成很多不幸比如說重測之後整個地界改了然後重測的時候沒有通知多數的人去止戒\n\n03:55.339 --> 04:21.005\n而是由地政機關去協助紫界的時候的確很多地界都被改了那被改的時候有些人地就多了有些人地就少了那爭議就一直產生然後就是法院訴訟就案子這種案子就變了很多那我要講說這樣子的情況我們在紫界的時候要怎麼去修正去檢討這個問題\n\n04:26.267 --> 04:44.352\n非常謝謝委員因為這個個案我不是非常的清楚不過第幾上面的一個偏差是的確是有的因為這個技術的因素或者當這個年代登記的這個因素\n\n04:45.853 --> 05:03.150\n這個狀況是有的那不過你剛剛特別提到這個球員兼裁判或是說我們的地政人員他不願意提供正確的資料這個應該是不容許的我們地政人員應該是必須要提供正確的資料才對\n\n05:04.852 --> 05:20.307\n不過你剛剛提到的有好幾個問題包括說他之前是不是有間接然後之後是有偏移的狀況這可能都會分涉到不同層次的問題\n\n05:21.688 --> 05:47.529\n那部長你剛剛說的是不允許那如果說我們怎麼樣有一個防避的機制畢竟建界也是地政機關法院作證也是地政機關那他當然不願意承認他有任何疏失還有剛剛說的紙借的部分紙借的部分現在很多數像彰化就有一個案例二水那邊\n\n05:49.250 --> 06:12.792\n或者20就是彰化一個案例就是有6500戶只有200戶去實際去止戒所以做出來的重測的這個結果是大偏移嘛大偏移那我現在希望內政部要重新檢討就是說已經做了如果有嚴重的偏移不應該去敷衍去閃躲不願意面對\n\n06:13.713 --> 06:41.964\n事實。」那另外在重測的時候怎麼去修這個相關的作業指引或者是辦法就是你的紙戒應該至少要一半以上那你才能夠進行重測不然你這樣的重測結果等於會造成另外一個大災難是謝謝委員我想那個地震的測量還有它的紙戒其實我們地震機關都有相關規定其實因為地震師沒有到我知道我是不是\n\n06:42.504 --> 06:42.724\n羅明財、羅明財委員不在\n\n","segments":[{"start":2.92,"end":5.081,"text":"謝謝召委請內政部長林部長請委員好部長好部長我今天還是跟上次有質詢過的一個議題要來請教部長就是有關我們土地建界"},{"start":25.56,"end":46.756,"text":"那土地間界的話呢有一個案子因為已經訴訟然後有超過10年就是竹北的一個地震的案子那這個案子呢後來在上上禮拜兼委兼委有跟本席來"},{"start":49.125,"end":62.995,"text":"當面有跟他說明說明之後其中一個很主要的爭議就是在陳青仁蓋房子前到底有沒有見解那你看到這個圖是"},{"start":64.229,"end":93.471,"text":"房子蓋好之後呢去做保存登記的見解做保存登記的見解那新建之前呢新建之前有沒有見解那因為地政這邊給法院的資料是蓋房子之前沒有見解但是呢提出的一些資料監委看了以後就是有蓋房子之前"},{"start":94.53,"end":118.931,"text":"包括有90年的間接資料還有這個91年的間接資料那這些資料就是怎麼講呢我要跟部長詢問的因為現在給法院的證據也是地政給的然後呢如果地政這邊有不當的這個證詞好像"},{"start":123.462,"end":150.459,"text":"部長你現在看到這個案子就是竹北地震一直告訴法院說當事人沒有見解但是在蓋房子之前有90年有89年都有見解資料然後跟蓋好房子的92年的見解資料都一樣那因為就是如果地震沒有給法院正確的資料包括沒有給"},{"start":152.601,"end":177.874,"text":"監察院正確的資料導致我們澄清人的權益受損那內政部我們現在的機制土地建界的機制重測或者是圖解、數值化這些問題都很容易造成爭議所以就會訴訟所以本席接到非常多的陳情案例那我是想問部長這個要怎麼來解決"},{"start":181.721,"end":203.457,"text":"假如地政機單位求援兼裁判然後錯誤的證詞會讓我們澄清人的權益嚴重受損那我剛剛講的這個案子的確就是的確就是因為澄清人房子面臨被拆嘛那現在監察院監委願意重新調查所以本席是認為"},{"start":207.756,"end":234.046,"text":"當一個受害者他沒有能力去表達正確的資訊還有地政機關不願意提供資料的時候這個間接是會造成很多不幸比如說重測之後整個地界改了然後重測的時候沒有通知多數的人去止戒"},{"start":235.339,"end":261.005,"text":"而是由地政機關去協助紫界的時候的確很多地界都被改了那被改的時候有些人地就多了有些人地就少了那爭議就一直產生然後就是法院訴訟就案子這種案子就變了很多那我要講說這樣子的情況我們在紫界的時候要怎麼去修正去檢討這個問題"},{"start":266.267,"end":284.352,"text":"非常謝謝委員因為這個個案我不是非常的清楚不過第幾上面的一個偏差是的確是有的因為這個技術的因素或者當這個年代登記的這個因素"},{"start":285.853,"end":303.15,"text":"這個狀況是有的那不過你剛剛特別提到這個球員兼裁判或是說我們的地政人員他不願意提供正確的資料這個應該是不容許的我們地政人員應該是必須要提供正確的資料才對"},{"start":304.852,"end":320.307,"text":"不過你剛剛提到的有好幾個問題包括說他之前是不是有間接然後之後是有偏移的狀況這可能都會分涉到不同層次的問題"},{"start":321.688,"end":347.529,"text":"那部長你剛剛說的是不允許那如果說我們怎麼樣有一個防避的機制畢竟建界也是地政機關法院作證也是地政機關那他當然不願意承認他有任何疏失還有剛剛說的紙借的部分紙借的部分現在很多數像彰化就有一個案例二水那邊"},{"start":349.25,"end":372.792,"text":"或者20就是彰化一個案例就是有6500戶只有200戶去實際去止戒所以做出來的重測的這個結果是大偏移嘛大偏移那我現在希望內政部要重新檢討就是說已經做了如果有嚴重的偏移不應該去敷衍去閃躲不願意面對"},{"start":373.713,"end":401.964,"text":"事實。」那另外在重測的時候怎麼去修這個相關的作業指引或者是辦法就是你的紙戒應該至少要一半以上那你才能夠進行重測不然你這樣的重測結果等於會造成另外一個大災難是 謝謝委員我想那個地震的測量還有它的紙戒其實我們地震機關都有相關規定其實因為地震師沒有到我知道我是不是"},{"start":402.504,"end":402.724,"text":"羅明財、羅明財委員不在"}]}}}}