{"id":148983,"url":"https://ivod.ly.gov.tw/Play/Clip/1M/148983","video_url":"https://ivod-lyvod.cdn.hinet.net/vod_1/_definst_/mp4:1MClips/a0ee4ec253a720295d385738a682fce592351fad24fff329c986728e607a032205e24b27dc4653105ea18f28b6918d91.mp4/playlist.m3u8","委員名稱":"何志偉","委員發言時間":"12:43:12 - 12:58:24","影片長度":"00:15:12","會議時間":"2023-12-11T09:00:00+08:00","會議名稱":"立法院第10屆第8會期外交及國防、經濟委員會第1次聯席會議（事由：一、邀請國防部部長報告「兵役延長配套與整備現況及國防學士班與國軍現行各人才招募管道精進作為」，併請內政部、教育部、勞動部列席，並備質詢。\n二、審查本院國民黨黨團擬具「國防產業發展條例第十條條文修正草案」案。\n三、審查本院委員邱志偉等22人擬具「國防產業發展條例第十條及第十九條條文修正草案」案。）","meet":{"tmpMeeting":null,"title":"立法院第10屆第8會期外交及國防、經濟委員會第1次聯席會議","type":"聯席會議","term":10,"sessionPeriod":8,"sessionTimes":1,"committees":[35,19],"id":"聯席會議-10-8-35,19-1"},"date":"2023-12-11","duration":912,"end_time":"2023-12-11T12:58:24+08:00","start_time":"2023-12-11T12:43:12+08:00","features":["ai-transcript","gazette"],"type":"Clip","gazette":{"lineno":1177,"blocks":[["何委員志偉：（12時43分）謝謝主席、謝謝召委。我們是不是先有請我們部長還有經濟部連署長。"],["主席：邱部長請，還有產業發展署連署長請。"],["邱部長國正：何委員好。"],["何委員志偉：部長，還有我們經濟部的署長，我想今天有個臨時提案有討論到無人機的部分，的確當時候在2022年8月31號金門這些無人機的滋擾非常的討厭、非常的幼稚、非常的無聊，但是這些對於民心來講，它會造成一些不安定，甚至對中國解放軍等等更加地反彈。問題來了，現在已經是2023年的12月了，距離當時候金門的這個滋擾事件1年3個月，那我們的無人機反制系統，現在當然我們有把這干擾槍放上去，後來母法也即將三讀。我問一個問題就好，我們的無人機反制系統什麼時候會上路？什麼時候會在外島？什麼時候可以完成？這個部分經濟部有沒有答案？國防部有沒有答案？能不能押一個時間點，可以嗎？"],["邱部長國正：上回我記得召委有提這問題，我想一個禮拜以內，我們中科院它以現有的去做一個補強，所以現在中科院如果數量夠的話，我們可以先做；至於要立案、要做研發、要做合作、採購等等後面照走，但我不指望那個期限，我們可以來補強的立刻補強。"],["何委員志偉：好，我們無人機的反制系統請部長這邊可不可以給我大概的一個時間也好。"],["邱部長國正：中科院，你們覺得大概要多久可以把它給……"],["主席：張院長請。"],["張院長忠誠：根據後續國防規劃，總共26臺外島的，目前是113年13臺、114年14臺，如果沒錯的話……"],["陳參謀長建義：13、13。"],["張院長忠誠：報告委員，先看國防部的指導，我們絕對可以配合，國防部現在還是要委外嗎？"],["陳參謀長建義：對。"],["張院長忠誠：還是跟委員報告一下。"],["陳參謀長建義：跟委員報告，無人機反制系統目前我們正在會同採購室和相關……"],["何委員志偉：沒關係，程序我不管，我問的是時間，時間就是勝利喔！"],["陳參謀長建義：因為它的期程是113、114，這個目前會按照……"],["何委員志偉：我等一下質詢時間會多增加2分鐘。"],["陳參謀長建義：會按照期限來走。"],["何委員志偉：對，期限是什麼？"],["陳參謀長建義：113年13套、114年也是13套，總共是26套。"],["何委員志偉：所以明年的什麼時候？"],["陳參謀長建義：到明年年底。"],["何委員志偉：明年年底才會好，還是？"],["陳參謀長建義：它的期程就是113年要完成13套……"],["何委員志偉：我的理解啦、我的理解啦！不能拖這麼久，這樣子一拖會變2年的時間，所以我們今天具體要求，明年3月份有沒有辦法好？4月份有沒有辦法好？"],["陳參謀長建義：跟委員報告，無人機反制系統……"],["何委員志偉：我的認知是這樣子啦！剛剛部長回應非常的精準，他說中科院這邊先去擋著、在那邊先補上去，之後什麼研發等等的後續再講，我的理解是這樣子，如果沒有錯的話，是不是這樣子？"],["邱部長國正：我……"],["何委員志偉：所以換句話說，在民意的要求下即刻就可以上路嗎？"],["邱部長國正：是，我跟委員報告，大概他們還不瞭解，因為我跟中科院那天會後，我馬上跟他們商量，我講現在有什麼、有多少？如果可以的話就先出去，後面程序照走。"],["何委員志偉：好，那我期待今年農曆年前，基本上可不可以全面上路，好不好？不可以？"],["張院長忠誠：報告委員，這樣子喔！因為原來這個……"],["何委員志偉：這個事情已經發生這麼久了喔！"],["張院長忠誠：對，我因為院裡面……"],["何委員志偉：給我一個時間、給我一個時間？"],["張院長忠誠：我院裡面可以接手，就是現在……"],["何委員志偉：給我一個時間？"],["張院長忠誠：對，就是今年，我今年現有的6套可以馬上供應外島，但是因為中科院還有包括……"],["何委員志偉：沒有關係，今天我也退讓一點點，外島好多個，我現在就是首重金門。"],["張院長忠誠：對，我外島現在可以提供6部，6部我現在已經完成的。"],["何委員志偉：嗯。"],["張院長忠誠：4部或是6部，因為有兩部……會後再跟您報告，因為這個很重要，也許在本島要用，最快4部就可以先上。"],["何委員志偉：4部先上是什麼時候？"],["張院長忠誠：對，就是我已經完成了。"],["何委員志偉：已經完成了在哪裡？"],["張院長忠誠：大概年初就可以送過去了。"],["何委員志偉：年初、年初……"],["張院長忠誠：馬上可以提供、馬上可以提供。"],["何委員志偉：好，年初金門全面可以防護好，是不是？"],["張院長忠誠：就是4部。"],["何委員志偉：4部？"],["張院長忠誠：4部到6部。"],["何委員志偉：金門的部分提供4部到6部？"],["張院長忠誠：對。"],["何委員志偉：什麼時候、什麼時候？"],["張院長忠誠：如果要連安裝大概在第一季吧！"],["何委員志偉：第一季？"],["張院長忠誠：我現在已經完成了，要配合安裝。"],["何委員志偉：就是4月份之前？"],["張院長忠誠：明年初一定可以完成。"],["何委員志偉：明年初？明年初什麼時候？3月份或4月份？"],["邱部長國正：我跟委員報告，好不好？"],["何委員志偉：嗯。"],["邱部長國正：委員不要問干擾槍要幾月幾號啦！我跟各位也要報告……"],["何委員志偉：沒關係，我時間有限。"],["邱部長國正：我們現在早就規定了，外離島只要營區上空有這種飛機的話……"],["何委員志偉：反制系統、反制系統。"],["邱部長國正：就是直接射擊打掉啦！這飛機也不用……"],["何委員志偉：你要看得到它，因為有時候是飛鳥、有時候其他的物質不知道。"],["邱部長國正：那當然是要判斷嘛！"],["何委員志偉：好，反制系統今年第一季會好，是不是？"],["張院長忠誠：是。"],["何委員志偉：好，謝謝！那麼我們相關同仁先請回座，部長請先留著。部長，今天……"],["主席：你講的是反制系統，還是干擾槍？"],["何委員志偉：反制系統。"],["主席：反制系統中科院有，幹嘛還要找？就直接招標就好了。"],["何委員志偉：好，反制系統，反制系統今年年初會好。","來，部長，今天由我們國內自己主持極機密的國防軍事會談、會議以及固安計畫，前前後後大概有10人在押，我必須以一個負責任的執政黨說這是國防部跟國安系統有在控管，有在控管才會查得到、抓得到，後續根據我的瞭解，他們拿到的這些資料也都是舊版的，沒有更新，裡面判決書跑出來，什麼多少錢、多少錢，他們是在喊價格，其實某種程度是針對特定族群做一些心戰，動搖我國國軍還有國人的民心。我先就教一下，這些狀況發生了，我要問的事情是不是請政戰回應一下？資料是極機密，他只是校級而已，是如何拿到資料的？這個部分知道嗎？校級的人如何取得將級的會議資料？這個部分可不可以說明？"],["邱部長國正：我跟委員簡單報告，我們很多工作都有一定的規定，有程序，嚴格講起來就是沒有照這個程序，他應該要直接交給誰然後歸檔，可能中間轉發給一個人，叫他歸檔，這個當中有出了問題。我們是很沉痛的，我們要檢討。"],["何委員志偉：政戰要不要說明一下？"],["陳局長育琳：報告委員，誠如剛剛部長說的，在程序方面我們確實有一些瑕疵。另外，這個案子高等法院也在依法辦理，會後我們是不是派員跟委員說明？"],["何委員志偉：我問一下，這些資料都是舊版，對不對？沒有用了嘛！還是應該怎麼說會比較好？"],["邱部長國正：我跟委員報告，我並不認為是新舊的問題，因為不論新的、舊的，臺澎的防衛作戰就那麼大的地方，再怎麼調……整體來講，我並不界定在新舊的問題，而是國防部真的要痛定思痛，因為這可以講是一個奇恥大辱。"],["何委員志偉：當時是怎麼發現的？"],["陳局長育琳：官兵檢舉。"],["何委員志偉：這一套系統我們內部到底要怎麼辦？","不好意思，召委，我要借一點時間。我們看一下兵推，好不好？部長，我近期有到國防大學還有國防安全研究院考察，也很謝謝國防部，身為召委，當時我要求把海鯤號、F-16V還有無人機三個元素放進我們的兵推裡面，的確後續的結論等等，我們發現兵推之後，我國的國防實力還有嚇阻能力的確大幅度增加。根據我的瞭解，在其他國防先進的國家裡面，以美國為例，三軍官校當中兵推課程是標準的配置。目前我看到我們臺灣、中華民國，兵推要等任官後，在軍官的正規班才開始。我要問一下國防大學，國防大學有沒有自己的兵推系統？"],["李教育長成中：跟委員報告，我們國防大學的兵推系統是用JTLS系統，是跟國防部一起共用的。"],["何委員志偉：我們自己沒有嘛！"],["李教育長成中：是。"],["何委員志偉：我再問一下，我們對照一下美軍好了，他們從上到……它畢竟是最大的系統之一。美軍的人才在軍校，18歲到22歲就有在培養，並且讓他們有戰略跟戰術的思維。我們的軍校的確是培育下一波國家重要的國軍人才，當然很多國軍會說拔草、掃地等等，可能只是一百項工作的其中一項，我的認知是，當我們的國軍從18歲、很年輕就知道未來怎麼決策，這個國家……我離題一下，我們在講智商（IQ）等等，不是他腦部開發了幾趴，而是他的組織能力是強的，決策能力是強的。未來我們的軍校是否可以有自己的兵推系統，從很年輕的時候就知道怎麼樣決策？如此在未來的時間裡，他們一起長大，他們也會有聯合作戰意識。這個部分可不可以就教部長，這樣的建議國防部會怎麼看待？"],["邱部長國正：我跟委員報告，委員這個建議很好。事實上，我現在要說明一下，所謂兵推是一個統稱，真正的推演有沙盤推演、兵棋推演、狀況推演。剛才委員講在軍校裡面就推演，這絕對可以做。"],["何委員志偉：好。"],["邱部長國正：我們要做任何一個科目之前，哪怕是在地板上擺幾個石頭也叫狀況推演，也叫兵棋推演，現在部隊裡面在做了，哪怕今天要打靶，靶溝勤務哪一些人站出來，這也是一個訓練，所以剛剛委員這個建議很好，我們隨時強化。"],["何委員志偉：另外一件事情，我跟部長討論未來的政策及教育系統。我理解國防大學現在用的真的是高技術性的，應該叫JTLS系統，沒有錯。再看下一個 PowerPoint頁面，好不好？我們有去國防安全研究院，你看一下左邊跟右邊，這是zoom out之後，非常遙遠的看，他們將任何參數放進之後，整個圖是會動的。我認為18歲到22歲的年輕人看相對應的兵推等等，其實會演繹出來，甚至很清楚地知道動態，因為它很即時，非常的擬真，就如同我當時建議飛官用模擬器去看待，因為越接近真實他越理解，包含他的組織、邏輯等等，還有有趣性也會增加。請看一下左下角這個框是各國使用的情形，還有這些兵推的軟體等等，是否也幫軍校爭取一下？我們是否可以……畢竟18歲到22歲，你要他看臺灣整島或整個印太，以那個規模（scale）兵推或者沙盤推演太大了，有些東西可以小部分、小部分拆解，讓他知道應該如何跟同僚甚至不同的聯隊、軍種協同，以及他們之間的合作關係、聯合關係是什麼。部長可不可以考慮？對於這個意見，您的想法呢？"],["邱部長國正：這個是很好的意見，委員表達出來的是每個層級不一樣，每個系統有不同的層級，剛剛講的JTLS已經到戰區系統，對一個排級或連級以下的單位來講，他用不到那個，所以現在各國都有手錶一樣的，上面就是兵力如何、配備如何、在哪裡，我們也朝這方面發展，但不是一蹴可幾，部隊裡面有一些已經在做了，有助我們掌握狀況，狀況掌握好了，用兵自然就好用，比較正確。"],["何委員志偉：更加現代化的國軍、更加先進的國軍，某個程度當然取決於我們手上持有的這些器械或者是用具（equipment），但是更重要的是腦部裡面的思維、邏輯、決策力還有參謀的能量，好不好？今天有兩個提議，謝謝部長都接受，感謝你。謝謝召委，謝謝同仁。"],["邱部長國正：是，謝謝委員。"],["主席：謝謝何召委，何召委的意思是國防大學的兵推不生動，商用兵推比較生動。"],["何委員志偉：我們那一天有去，那一天去看就是點跟線這樣子而已，但是那是真正的專業。既然是教學用，應該……"],["主席：多用商用的兵推。"],["何委員志偉：對。"],["主席：國防院裡面的比較好。"],["何委員志偉：謝謝。"],["主席：好，謝謝何委員。","接下請陳椒華委員詢答。"]],"agenda":{"page_end":244,"meet_id":"聯席會議-10-8-35,19-1","speakers":["廖婉汝","李德維","林昶佐","陳亭妃","陳以信","賴瑞隆","王定宇","楊瓊瓔","吳斯懷","江啟臣","林靜儀","何志偉","劉世芳","羅致政","蔡適應","邱臣遠","陳椒華","陳明文","蔡易餘","馬文君","趙天麟","陳超明"],"page_start":157,"meetingDate":["2023-12-11"],"gazette_id":"1130201","agenda_lcidc_ids":["1130201_00003"],"meet_name":"立法院第10屆第8會期外交及國防、經濟委員會第1次聯席會議紀錄","content":"一、邀請國防部部長報告「兵役延長配套與整備現況及國防學士班與國軍現行各人才招募管道精\n進作為」，並備質詢；二、審查本院國民黨黨團擬具「國防產業發展條例第十條條文修正草案」\n案；三、審查本院委員邱志偉等22人擬具「國防產業發展條例第十條及第十九條條文修正草案」\n案","agenda_id":"1130201_00002"}},"transcript":{"id":"148983","pyannote":{"name":"ronny","tool":"pyannote","data":{"url":"https://ivod.ly.gov.tw/Play/Clip/1M/148983","tool":"pyannote","id":"148983-pyannote"},"job_id":"1PuHQUb6rPQHzntB","queued_at":"2024-06-02 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891.871, \"end\": 891.891, \"score\": 0.0}, {\"word\": \"黨\"}, {\"word\": \"團\"}, {\"word\": \"擬\"}, {\"word\": \"具\", \"start\": 891.891, \"end\": 891.911, \"score\": 0.0}], \"language\": \"zh\"}","srt":"1\n00:00:01,570 --> 00:00:13,381\n蔣偉,請打。謝謝主席,謝謝蔣偉。我們是不是先有請我們部長,還有我們的經濟部署長,連署長,謝謝。邱部長請,還有連署長請。產業發展署連署長。\n\n2\n00:00:25,706 --> 00:00:45,453\n國防部長還有我們經濟部的署長我想今天有個臨時提案也討論到無人機的部分那的確當時候在2022年8月31號金門這些無人機的滋擾非常的討厭非常的幼稚非常的無聊但是這些對於民心來講他是有一些\n\n3\n00:00:46,894 --> 00:00:47,794\n二、審查本院委員二、審查本院委員二、審查本院委員二、審查本院委員\n\n4\n00:01:12,259 --> 00:01:25,509\n我再問一個問題就好,我們的無人機的反制系統,我們什麼時候會上路?什麼時候會在外島?什麼時候可以完成?這個部分經濟部有沒有答案?國防部有沒有答案?我們壓一個時間點可以嗎?\n\n5\n00:01:28,873 --> 00:01:53,845\n我上回我記得召委有提出的問題,一個禮拜以內我們中科院他以現有的去做一個補強所以現在我們知道中科院數量夠的話我們可以先做吧至於要立案要做研發要做這個合作採購等等的後面照走但我不指望這個期限了,我們可以來補強的立刻補強\n\n6\n00:01:54,625 --> 00:02:03,858\n好,那我們無人機的反制系統,可不可以請部長這邊,可不可以給我大概的一個時間也好。那中科院你們覺得大概要多久可以把它給...張院長請。\n\n7\n00:02:13,991 --> 00:02:32,736\n根據就是後續國防部規劃總共26台外導的,那目前是113年13台、114年14台,如果沒錯的話,現在我是說先看國防部的指導,我們總會絕對可以配合。國防部現在還是要委外嗎?還是跟委員報告一下?\n\n8\n00:02:36,749 --> 00:02:46,708\n國務委員報告,這個無人機反制系統目前我們正在會同採購室和相關的…沒關係,程序我不管,我問的是時間。\n\n9\n00:02:49,859 --> 00:03:14,079\n時間就是勝利喔也就是在因為它的期程是113、114那這個目前會按照這個我等一下質詢時間會多增加兩分鐘會按照期限來走對我在期限是什麼113年13套114年也是13套那總共是26套所以明年的什麼時候到明年年底明年年底才會好還是\n\n10\n00:03:15,300 --> 00:03:26,694\n他的期程就是113年要完成13號。我的理解啦。不能拖這麼久啦。這樣子一拖變兩年的時間。所以我們今天的具體要求明年\n\n11\n00:03:28,246 --> 00:03:55,128\n三月份有沒有辦法好?四月份有沒有辦法好?我的認知是這樣子啦。剛剛部長回應非常的精準。他說中科院這邊先去擋著,去在那邊,先補上去,那之後什麼研發等等的,再後續再講。我想我理解是這樣子,如果沒有錯的話,是不是這樣子。所以換句話說,在民意的要求下,即刻就可以上路嗎?\n\n12\n00:03:55,828 --> 00:04:15,346\n我跟委員報告,大概他們還不了解,因為我跟中委院那天會後,我馬上跟他商量,我講現有什麼,有多少,如果可以的話就先出去,後面程序照走。好,那我期待今年農曆年前,可不可以全部,基本上全面上路好不好?不可以?\n\n13\n00:04:18,067 --> 00:04:34,166\n委員這樣子齁這個因為原來這個這個事情已經發生這麼久了喔對我院裡面因為院裡面給我一個時間給我一個時間我院裡面可以接手齁就是現在給我一個時間對就是今年我今年現有的六套我可以馬上供應外導\n\n14\n00:04:34,867 --> 00:05:02,953\n但是因為中共院還有報告過中共院。沒關係,我今天我也退讓一點點。對。外導好多個。我現在就是手中金門。我外導現在可以提供六個。我六個現在已經完成了。六部或是四部。因為有兩部我會有再跟你們報告,因為這很重要。也許在本島要用。最快四部就可以先上。四部什麼時候?就是我已經完成了。已經完成在哪裡?對,大概年初就可以送過去。馬上可以提供。年初金門全面防護好。\n\n15\n00:05:03,974 --> 00:05:08,806\n這是四部。四部到六部。金門的部分提供四部到六部。什麼時候?\n\n16\n00:05:10,930 --> 00:05:16,532\n我跟委員報告好不好,委員不要為這個干擾我現在幾月幾號了,我跟各位也要報告,我們現在早就規定了,外離島在營區上空有這個調化,就是直接就射擊打掉了。\n\n17\n00:05:37,941 --> 00:05:39,782\n二、審查本院委員二、審查本院委員\n\n18\n00:06:04,741 --> 00:06:28,477\n反制系統今年年初來部長我想今天由我們國內自己主持極機密的國防軍事會談會議以及顧案計畫前前後後大概有十人在押我必須以一個負責任的執政黨說這是我們國防部跟我們國安系統有在控管\n\n19\n00:06:29,378 --> 00:06:40,663\n有在控管才會查得到才會抓得到那我這邊後續根據我的了解他們拿到的這些資料也都是舊版的沒有更新的\n\n20\n00:06:41,425 --> 00:06:42,526\n二、審查本院委員\n\n21\n00:06:59,975 --> 00:07:22,222\n但是這些狀況發生了我要問的事情是是不是請政戰這邊回應一下他們是如何拿到因為是極機密他只是效極而已吼那如何拿到資料的這個部分知道嗎效極的人如何取得降級喔的會議資料這個部分可不可以說明\n\n22\n00:07:23,325 --> 00:07:47,379\n我跟委員簡單報告就我們很多工作都有一定的規定有程序嚴格講起來也就沒有照這個程序所以他應該要直接交給誰然後歸黨他可能就中間轉發一個人給他叫他去歸這個當作出了問題所以我們是很沉痛的我們要檢討我們要檢討來鄭正這邊要不要說明一下\n\n23\n00:07:48,783 --> 00:08:05,572\n報告委員,呃,這個,誠如剛剛部長所說的,在這個程序方面,我們確實有一些瑕疵。那另外呢,這個案子呢,因為呃,高等法院也在依法辦理。呃,會後我們是不是派員跟委員這邊做說明?\n\n24\n00:08:08,327 --> 00:08:34,795\n來,那我問一下,這些資料的部分都是舊版的嗎?對不對?沒有用了嗎?還是應該怎麼說會比較好?我問委員報告,我倒並不是有新的舊的。新的舊的,台風防疫室在舊那麼大的地方,再怎麼調,這整體來講我並不界定在新的舊的問題。這國防部真的痛定思痛了。這是一個起死大路。那當時候是怎麼發現的?官兵檢舉\n\n25\n00:08:39,330 --> 00:09:04,060\n關兵檢舉關兵檢舉所以我們到底這一套系統要怎麼我們內部到底要怎麼辦不好意思昭偉這邊要借一點時間然後我們看到一下兵推好不好這個下一個題目部長我近期有到這個國防大學還有國防安全研究院去考察那也很謝謝國防部身為昭偉當時我要求要把這個海昆號\n\n26\n00:09:05,040 --> 00:09:05,840\n二、審查本院委員二、審查本院委員\n\n27\n00:09:23,667 --> 00:09:51,895\n根據我的了解在美國也好或其他的這些所謂我們先進的這些國防的國家裡面以美國為例美國的三軍官校當中兵推課程是標準的配置那目前我看到我們台灣台灣中華民國的部分兵推是要等任官、任官、任官後在軍官的正規班才開始的我在這邊要問一下我們國防大學這邊\n\n28\n00:09:53,763 --> 00:10:05,690\n國防大學有沒有自己的兵推系統?國防大學的兵推系統是用JTOS系統是跟國防部一起共用的。我們對照一下美軍好了,它畢竟是最大的系統之一,美軍的國軍人才在軍校18歲到22歲,\n\n29\n00:10:18,297 --> 00:10:29,906\n他們的就有在培養他們並且讓他們有戰略跟戰術的思維畢竟我們的這個軍校的確是培育下一波也是國家重要國軍人才\n\n30\n00:10:31,080 --> 00:10:54,231\n當然很多國軍會說拔草、掃地等等只是可能一百項工作裡面其中一項。我的認知是當我們的國軍從18歲很年輕就知道說未來的決策怎麼決策。其實這個國家我們再離題一下下我們在講智商我們在講這個IQ等等其實不是他腦部開發了幾部\n\n31\n00:10:55,151 --> 00:10:55,491\n二、審查本院國民黨團擬具\n\n32\n00:11:23,814 --> 00:11:43,817\n我跟委員報告,委員這個建議很好。事實上我現在要說明一下,所以兵推是個統稱,真正的推演有砂板推演、有兵器推演、有裝備推演。我所強調的,剛才委員所講的,在這個軍校裡面就做推演,這絕對可以做。我們認為科目要做之前,\n\n33\n00:11:44,915 --> 00:11:47,118\n二、審查本院委員二、審查本院委員二、審查本院委員二、審查本院委員\n\n34\n00:11:56,158 --> 00:12:00,883\n我理解國防大學現在用的是真的是所謂的高技術性的應該叫做JETOS系統,沒有錯。\n\n35\n00:12:18,440 --> 00:12:44,736\n那JATO再看一個下一個PowerPoint好不好我們去這個國防安全研究院你看一下左邊跟右邊他們裡面這是Zoomout之後這是非常遙遠的看他們在做任何的參數放進去之後其實他這整個圖是會動的那我認為從對一個18歲到22歲的年輕人他們在看相對應的兵推等等的其實他會演繹出來\n\n36\n00:12:45,757 --> 00:13:06,609\n甚至他很清楚的知道他動態他很及時非常的擬真就如同我當時候建議我們的這個很多非官他是用那個模擬器這樣子去看待因為越接近真實他越理解包含他的組織邏輯等等包含還有這個有趣性也會增加\n\n37\n00:13:07,389 --> 00:13:32,618\n所以我在這邊講請看一下我們這個左下角這個框是各國使用的還有這些兵推的軟體等等是否這邊也幫軍校這邊爭取一下下我們是否可以因為畢竟18歲到20歲你要他看臺灣整島或整個印太東西的規模那個skill去做兵推或者沙盤推演太大了但是有些東西可以小部分小部分拆解讓他知道\n\n38\n00:13:33,358 --> 00:13:54,050\n我應該如何跟我的同僚甚至不同的聯隊甚至不同的軍種他們之間的合作關係聯合的關係是什麼這邊部長可不可以這個意見您的想法呢這很好意見我就想說委員所這個表達出來這個是每個層級不一樣每個系統有不同層級就剛剛講的JETOS\n\n39\n00:13:55,711 --> 00:14:10,148\n它已經到戰區系統了所以對一個我們排級或聯席以下單位來講的話它用不到那個所以現在各國都有一個手錶一樣這上面就是兵力如何配備如何在哪裡\n\n40\n00:14:11,109 --> 00:14:11,469\n三、審查本院委員\n\n41\n00:14:32,826 --> 00:14:34,527\n二、審查本院委員二、審查本院委員二、審查本院委員\n\n42\n00:14:51,391 --> 00:14:51,911\n二、審查本院國民黨團擬具\n\n","tsv":"start\tend\ttext\n1570\t13381\t蔣偉,請打。謝謝主席,謝謝蔣偉。我們是不是先有請我們部長,還有我們的經濟部署長,連署長,謝謝。邱部長請,還有連署長請。產業發展署連署長。\n25706\t45453\t國防部長還有我們經濟部的署長我想今天有個臨時提案也討論到無人機的部分那的確當時候在2022年8月31號金門這些無人機的滋擾非常的討厭非常的幼稚非常的無聊但是這些對於民心來講他是有一些\n46894\t47794\t二、審查本院委員二、審查本院委員二、審查本院委員二、審查本院委員\n72259\t85509\t我再問一個問題就好,我們的無人機的反制系統,我們什麼時候會上路?什麼時候會在外島?什麼時候可以完成?這個部分經濟部有沒有答案?國防部有沒有答案?我們壓一個時間點可以嗎?\n88873\t113845\t我上回我記得召委有提出的問題,一個禮拜以內我們中科院他以現有的去做一個補強所以現在我們知道中科院數量夠的話我們可以先做吧至於要立案要做研發要做這個合作採購等等的後面照走但我不指望這個期限了,我們可以來補強的立刻補強\n114625\t123858\t好,那我們無人機的反制系統,可不可以請部長這邊,可不可以給我大概的一個時間也好。那中科院你們覺得大概要多久可以把它給...張院長請。\n133991\t152736\t根據就是後續國防部規劃總共26台外導的,那目前是113年13台、114年14台,如果沒錯的話,現在我是說先看國防部的指導,我們總會絕對可以配合。國防部現在還是要委外嗎?還是跟委員報告一下?\n156749\t166708\t國務委員報告,這個無人機反制系統目前我們正在會同採購室和相關的…沒關係,程序我不管,我問的是時間。\n169859\t194079\t時間就是勝利喔也就是在因為它的期程是113、114那這個目前會按照這個我等一下質詢時間會多增加兩分鐘會按照期限來走對我在期限是什麼113年13套114年也是13套那總共是26套所以明年的什麼時候到明年年底明年年底才會好還是\n195300\t206694\t他的期程就是113年要完成13號。我的理解啦。不能拖這麼久啦。這樣子一拖變兩年的時間。所以我們今天的具體要求明年\n208246\t235128\t三月份有沒有辦法好?四月份有沒有辦法好?我的認知是這樣子啦。剛剛部長回應非常的精準。他說中科院這邊先去擋著,去在那邊,先補上去,那之後什麼研發等等的,再後續再講。我想我理解是這樣子,如果沒有錯的話,是不是這樣子。所以換句話說,在民意的要求下,即刻就可以上路嗎?\n235828\t255346\t我跟委員報告,大概他們還不了解,因為我跟中委院那天會後,我馬上跟他商量,我講現有什麼,有多少,如果可以的話就先出去,後面程序照走。好,那我期待今年農曆年前,可不可以全部,基本上全面上路好不好?不可以?\n258067\t274166\t委員這樣子齁這個因為原來這個這個事情已經發生這麼久了喔對我院裡面因為院裡面給我一個時間給我一個時間我院裡面可以接手齁就是現在給我一個時間對就是今年我今年現有的六套我可以馬上供應外導\n274867\t302953\t但是因為中共院還有報告過中共院。沒關係,我今天我也退讓一點點。對。外導好多個。我現在就是手中金門。我外導現在可以提供六個。我六個現在已經完成了。六部或是四部。因為有兩部我會有再跟你們報告,因為這很重要。也許在本島要用。最快四部就可以先上。四部什麼時候?就是我已經完成了。已經完成在哪裡?對,大概年初就可以送過去。馬上可以提供。年初金門全面防護好。\n303974\t308806\t這是四部。四部到六部。金門的部分提供四部到六部。什麼時候?\n310930\t316532\t我跟委員報告好不好,委員不要為這個干擾我現在幾月幾號了,我跟各位也要報告,我們現在早就規定了,外離島在營區上空有這個調化,就是直接就射擊打掉了。\n337941\t339782\t二、審查本院委員二、審查本院委員\n364741\t388477\t反制系統今年年初來部長我想今天由我們國內自己主持極機密的國防軍事會談會議以及顧案計畫前前後後大概有十人在押我必須以一個負責任的執政黨說這是我們國防部跟我們國安系統有在控管\n389378\t400663\t有在控管才會查得到才會抓得到那我這邊後續根據我的了解他們拿到的這些資料也都是舊版的沒有更新的\n401425\t402526\t二、審查本院委員\n419975\t442222\t但是這些狀況發生了我要問的事情是是不是請政戰這邊回應一下他們是如何拿到因為是極機密他只是效極而已吼那如何拿到資料的這個部分知道嗎效極的人如何取得降級喔的會議資料這個部分可不可以說明\n443325\t467379\t我跟委員簡單報告就我們很多工作都有一定的規定有程序嚴格講起來也就沒有照這個程序所以他應該要直接交給誰然後歸黨他可能就中間轉發一個人給他叫他去歸這個當作出了問題所以我們是很沉痛的我們要檢討我們要檢討來鄭正這邊要不要說明一下\n468783\t485572\t報告委員,呃,這個,誠如剛剛部長所說的,在這個程序方面,我們確實有一些瑕疵。那另外呢,這個案子呢,因為呃,高等法院也在依法辦理。呃,會後我們是不是派員跟委員這邊做說明?\n488327\t514795\t來,那我問一下,這些資料的部分都是舊版的嗎?對不對?沒有用了嗎?還是應該怎麼說會比較好?我問委員報告,我倒並不是有新的舊的。新的舊的,台風防疫室在舊那麼大的地方,再怎麼調,這整體來講我並不界定在新的舊的問題。這國防部真的痛定思痛了。這是一個起死大路。那當時候是怎麼發現的?官兵檢舉\n519330\t544060\t關兵檢舉關兵檢舉所以我們到底這一套系統要怎麼我們內部到底要怎麼辦不好意思昭偉這邊要借一點時間然後我們看到一下兵推好不好這個下一個題目部長我近期有到這個國防大學還有國防安全研究院去考察那也很謝謝國防部身為昭偉當時我要求要把這個海昆號\n545040\t545840\t二、審查本院委員二、審查本院委員\n563667\t591895\t根據我的了解在美國也好或其他的這些所謂我們先進的這些國防的國家裡面以美國為例美國的三軍官校當中兵推課程是標準的配置那目前我看到我們台灣台灣中華民國的部分兵推是要等任官、任官、任官後在軍官的正規班才開始的我在這邊要問一下我們國防大學這邊\n593763\t605690\t國防大學有沒有自己的兵推系統?國防大學的兵推系統是用JTOS系統是跟國防部一起共用的。我們對照一下美軍好了,它畢竟是最大的系統之一,美軍的國軍人才在軍校18歲到22歲,\n618297\t629906\t他們的就有在培養他們並且讓他們有戰略跟戰術的思維畢竟我們的這個軍校的確是培育下一波也是國家重要國軍人才\n631080\t654231\t當然很多國軍會說拔草、掃地等等只是可能一百項工作裡面其中一項。我的認知是當我們的國軍從18歲很年輕就知道說未來的決策怎麼決策。其實這個國家我們再離題一下下我們在講智商我們在講這個IQ等等其實不是他腦部開發了幾部\n655151\t655491\t二、審查本院國民黨團擬具\n683814\t703817\t我跟委員報告,委員這個建議很好。事實上我現在要說明一下,所以兵推是個統稱,真正的推演有砂板推演、有兵器推演、有裝備推演。我所強調的,剛才委員所講的,在這個軍校裡面就做推演,這絕對可以做。我們認為科目要做之前,\n704915\t707118\t二、審查本院委員二、審查本院委員二、審查本院委員二、審查本院委員\n716158\t720883\t我理解國防大學現在用的是真的是所謂的高技術性的應該叫做JETOS系統,沒有錯。\n738440\t764736\t那JATO再看一個下一個PowerPoint好不好我們去這個國防安全研究院你看一下左邊跟右邊他們裡面這是Zoom out之後這是非常遙遠的看他們在做任何的參數放進去之後其實他這整個圖是會動的那我認為從對一個18歲到22歲的年輕人他們在看相對應的兵推等等的其實他會演繹出來\n765757\t786609\t甚至他很清楚的知道他動態他很及時非常的擬真就如同我當時候建議我們的這個很多非官他是用那個模擬器這樣子去看待因為越接近真實他越理解包含他的組織邏輯等等包含還有這個有趣性也會增加\n787389\t812618\t所以我在這邊講請看一下我們這個左下角這個框是各國使用的還有這些兵推的軟體等等是否這邊也幫軍校這邊爭取一下下我們是否可以因為畢竟18歲到20歲你要他看臺灣整島或整個印太東西的規模那個skill去做兵推或者沙盤推演太大了但是有些東西可以小部分小部分拆解讓他知道\n813358\t834050\t我應該如何跟我的同僚甚至不同的聯隊甚至不同的軍種他們之間的合作關係聯合的關係是什麼這邊部長可不可以這個意見您的想法呢這很好意見我就想說委員所這個表達出來這個是每個層級不一樣每個系統有不同層級就剛剛講的JETOS\n835711\t850148\t它已經到戰區系統了所以對一個我們排級或聯席以下單位來講的話它用不到那個所以現在各國都有一個手錶一樣這上面就是兵力如何配備如何在哪裡\n851109\t851469\t三、審查本院委員\n872826\t874527\t二、審查本院委員二、審查本院委員二、審查本院委員\n891391\t891911\t二、審查本院國民黨團擬具\n","txt":"蔣偉,請打。謝謝主席,謝謝蔣偉。我們是不是先有請我們部長,還有我們的經濟部署長,連署長,謝謝。邱部長請,還有連署長請。產業發展署連署長。\n國防部長還有我們經濟部的署長我想今天有個臨時提案也討論到無人機的部分那的確當時候在2022年8月31號金門這些無人機的滋擾非常的討厭非常的幼稚非常的無聊但是這些對於民心來講他是有一些\n二、審查本院委員二、審查本院委員二、審查本院委員二、審查本院委員\n我再問一個問題就好,我們的無人機的反制系統,我們什麼時候會上路?什麼時候會在外島?什麼時候可以完成?這個部分經濟部有沒有答案?國防部有沒有答案?我們壓一個時間點可以嗎?\n我上回我記得召委有提出的問題,一個禮拜以內我們中科院他以現有的去做一個補強所以現在我們知道中科院數量夠的話我們可以先做吧至於要立案要做研發要做這個合作採購等等的後面照走但我不指望這個期限了,我們可以來補強的立刻補強\n好,那我們無人機的反制系統,可不可以請部長這邊,可不可以給我大概的一個時間也好。那中科院你們覺得大概要多久可以把它給...張院長請。\n根據就是後續國防部規劃總共26台外導的,那目前是113年13台、114年14台,如果沒錯的話,現在我是說先看國防部的指導,我們總會絕對可以配合。國防部現在還是要委外嗎?還是跟委員報告一下?\n國務委員報告,這個無人機反制系統目前我們正在會同採購室和相關的…沒關係,程序我不管,我問的是時間。\n時間就是勝利喔也就是在因為它的期程是113、114那這個目前會按照這個我等一下質詢時間會多增加兩分鐘會按照期限來走對我在期限是什麼113年13套114年也是13套那總共是26套所以明年的什麼時候到明年年底明年年底才會好還是\n他的期程就是113年要完成13號。我的理解啦。不能拖這麼久啦。這樣子一拖變兩年的時間。所以我們今天的具體要求明年\n三月份有沒有辦法好?四月份有沒有辦法好?我的認知是這樣子啦。剛剛部長回應非常的精準。他說中科院這邊先去擋著,去在那邊,先補上去,那之後什麼研發等等的,再後續再講。我想我理解是這樣子,如果沒有錯的話,是不是這樣子。所以換句話說,在民意的要求下,即刻就可以上路嗎?\n我跟委員報告,大概他們還不了解,因為我跟中委院那天會後,我馬上跟他商量,我講現有什麼,有多少,如果可以的話就先出去,後面程序照走。好,那我期待今年農曆年前,可不可以全部,基本上全面上路好不好?不可以?\n委員這樣子齁這個因為原來這個這個事情已經發生這麼久了喔對我院裡面因為院裡面給我一個時間給我一個時間我院裡面可以接手齁就是現在給我一個時間對就是今年我今年現有的六套我可以馬上供應外導\n但是因為中共院還有報告過中共院。沒關係,我今天我也退讓一點點。對。外導好多個。我現在就是手中金門。我外導現在可以提供六個。我六個現在已經完成了。六部或是四部。因為有兩部我會有再跟你們報告,因為這很重要。也許在本島要用。最快四部就可以先上。四部什麼時候?就是我已經完成了。已經完成在哪裡?對,大概年初就可以送過去。馬上可以提供。年初金門全面防護好。\n這是四部。四部到六部。金門的部分提供四部到六部。什麼時候?\n我跟委員報告好不好,委員不要為這個干擾我現在幾月幾號了,我跟各位也要報告,我們現在早就規定了,外離島在營區上空有這個調化,就是直接就射擊打掉了。\n二、審查本院委員二、審查本院委員\n反制系統今年年初來部長我想今天由我們國內自己主持極機密的國防軍事會談會議以及顧案計畫前前後後大概有十人在押我必須以一個負責任的執政黨說這是我們國防部跟我們國安系統有在控管\n有在控管才會查得到才會抓得到那我這邊後續根據我的了解他們拿到的這些資料也都是舊版的沒有更新的\n二、審查本院委員\n但是這些狀況發生了我要問的事情是是不是請政戰這邊回應一下他們是如何拿到因為是極機密他只是效極而已吼那如何拿到資料的這個部分知道嗎效極的人如何取得降級喔的會議資料這個部分可不可以說明\n我跟委員簡單報告就我們很多工作都有一定的規定有程序嚴格講起來也就沒有照這個程序所以他應該要直接交給誰然後歸黨他可能就中間轉發一個人給他叫他去歸這個當作出了問題所以我們是很沉痛的我們要檢討我們要檢討來鄭正這邊要不要說明一下\n報告委員,呃,這個,誠如剛剛部長所說的,在這個程序方面,我們確實有一些瑕疵。那另外呢,這個案子呢,因為呃,高等法院也在依法辦理。呃,會後我們是不是派員跟委員這邊做說明?\n來,那我問一下,這些資料的部分都是舊版的嗎?對不對?沒有用了嗎?還是應該怎麼說會比較好?我問委員報告,我倒並不是有新的舊的。新的舊的,台風防疫室在舊那麼大的地方,再怎麼調,這整體來講我並不界定在新的舊的問題。這國防部真的痛定思痛了。這是一個起死大路。那當時候是怎麼發現的?官兵檢舉\n關兵檢舉關兵檢舉所以我們到底這一套系統要怎麼我們內部到底要怎麼辦不好意思昭偉這邊要借一點時間然後我們看到一下兵推好不好這個下一個題目部長我近期有到這個國防大學還有國防安全研究院去考察那也很謝謝國防部身為昭偉當時我要求要把這個海昆號\n二、審查本院委員二、審查本院委員\n根據我的了解在美國也好或其他的這些所謂我們先進的這些國防的國家裡面以美國為例美國的三軍官校當中兵推課程是標準的配置那目前我看到我們台灣台灣中華民國的部分兵推是要等任官、任官、任官後在軍官的正規班才開始的我在這邊要問一下我們國防大學這邊\n國防大學有沒有自己的兵推系統?國防大學的兵推系統是用JTOS系統是跟國防部一起共用的。我們對照一下美軍好了,它畢竟是最大的系統之一,美軍的國軍人才在軍校18歲到22歲,\n他們的就有在培養他們並且讓他們有戰略跟戰術的思維畢竟我們的這個軍校的確是培育下一波也是國家重要國軍人才\n當然很多國軍會說拔草、掃地等等只是可能一百項工作裡面其中一項。我的認知是當我們的國軍從18歲很年輕就知道說未來的決策怎麼決策。其實這個國家我們再離題一下下我們在講智商我們在講這個IQ等等其實不是他腦部開發了幾部\n二、審查本院國民黨團擬具\n我跟委員報告,委員這個建議很好。事實上我現在要說明一下,所以兵推是個統稱,真正的推演有砂板推演、有兵器推演、有裝備推演。我所強調的,剛才委員所講的,在這個軍校裡面就做推演,這絕對可以做。我們認為科目要做之前,\n二、審查本院委員二、審查本院委員二、審查本院委員二、審查本院委員\n我理解國防大學現在用的是真的是所謂的高技術性的應該叫做JETOS系統,沒有錯。\n那JATO再看一個下一個PowerPoint好不好我們去這個國防安全研究院你看一下左邊跟右邊他們裡面這是Zoom out之後這是非常遙遠的看他們在做任何的參數放進去之後其實他這整個圖是會動的那我認為從對一個18歲到22歲的年輕人他們在看相對應的兵推等等的其實他會演繹出來\n甚至他很清楚的知道他動態他很及時非常的擬真就如同我當時候建議我們的這個很多非官他是用那個模擬器這樣子去看待因為越接近真實他越理解包含他的組織邏輯等等包含還有這個有趣性也會增加\n所以我在這邊講請看一下我們這個左下角這個框是各國使用的還有這些兵推的軟體等等是否這邊也幫軍校這邊爭取一下下我們是否可以因為畢竟18歲到20歲你要他看臺灣整島或整個印太東西的規模那個skill去做兵推或者沙盤推演太大了但是有些東西可以小部分小部分拆解讓他知道\n我應該如何跟我的同僚甚至不同的聯隊甚至不同的軍種他們之間的合作關係聯合的關係是什麼這邊部長可不可以這個意見您的想法呢這很好意見我就想說委員所這個表達出來這個是每個層級不一樣每個系統有不同層級就剛剛講的JETOS\n它已經到戰區系統了所以對一個我們排級或聯席以下單位來講的話它用不到那個所以現在各國都有一個手錶一樣這上面就是兵力如何配備如何在哪裡\n三、審查本院委員\n二、審查本院委員二、審查本院委員二、審查本院委員\n二、審查本院國民黨團擬具\n","vtt":"WEBVTT\n\n00:01.570 --> 00:13.381\n蔣偉,請打。謝謝主席,謝謝蔣偉。我們是不是先有請我們部長,還有我們的經濟部署長,連署長,謝謝。邱部長請,還有連署長請。產業發展署連署長。\n\n00:25.706 --> 00:45.453\n國防部長還有我們經濟部的署長我想今天有個臨時提案也討論到無人機的部分那的確當時候在2022年8月31號金門這些無人機的滋擾非常的討厭非常的幼稚非常的無聊但是這些對於民心來講他是有一些\n\n00:46.894 --> 00:47.794\n二、審查本院委員二、審查本院委員二、審查本院委員二、審查本院委員\n\n01:12.259 --> 01:25.509\n我再問一個問題就好,我們的無人機的反制系統,我們什麼時候會上路?什麼時候會在外島?什麼時候可以完成?這個部分經濟部有沒有答案?國防部有沒有答案?我們壓一個時間點可以嗎?\n\n01:28.873 --> 01:53.845\n我上回我記得召委有提出的問題,一個禮拜以內我們中科院他以現有的去做一個補強所以現在我們知道中科院數量夠的話我們可以先做吧至於要立案要做研發要做這個合作採購等等的後面照走但我不指望這個期限了,我們可以來補強的立刻補強\n\n01:54.625 --> 02:03.858\n好,那我們無人機的反制系統,可不可以請部長這邊,可不可以給我大概的一個時間也好。那中科院你們覺得大概要多久可以把它給...張院長請。\n\n02:13.991 --> 02:32.736\n根據就是後續國防部規劃總共26台外導的,那目前是113年13台、114年14台,如果沒錯的話,現在我是說先看國防部的指導,我們總會絕對可以配合。國防部現在還是要委外嗎?還是跟委員報告一下?\n\n02:36.749 --> 02:46.708\n國務委員報告,這個無人機反制系統目前我們正在會同採購室和相關的…沒關係,程序我不管,我問的是時間。\n\n02:49.859 --> 03:14.079\n時間就是勝利喔也就是在因為它的期程是113、114那這個目前會按照這個我等一下質詢時間會多增加兩分鐘會按照期限來走對我在期限是什麼113年13套114年也是13套那總共是26套所以明年的什麼時候到明年年底明年年底才會好還是\n\n03:15.300 --> 03:26.694\n他的期程就是113年要完成13號。我的理解啦。不能拖這麼久啦。這樣子一拖變兩年的時間。所以我們今天的具體要求明年\n\n03:28.246 --> 03:55.128\n三月份有沒有辦法好?四月份有沒有辦法好?我的認知是這樣子啦。剛剛部長回應非常的精準。他說中科院這邊先去擋著,去在那邊,先補上去,那之後什麼研發等等的,再後續再講。我想我理解是這樣子,如果沒有錯的話,是不是這樣子。所以換句話說,在民意的要求下,即刻就可以上路嗎?\n\n03:55.828 --> 04:15.346\n我跟委員報告,大概他們還不了解,因為我跟中委院那天會後,我馬上跟他商量,我講現有什麼,有多少,如果可以的話就先出去,後面程序照走。好,那我期待今年農曆年前,可不可以全部,基本上全面上路好不好?不可以?\n\n04:18.067 --> 04:34.166\n委員這樣子齁這個因為原來這個這個事情已經發生這麼久了喔對我院裡面因為院裡面給我一個時間給我一個時間我院裡面可以接手齁就是現在給我一個時間對就是今年我今年現有的六套我可以馬上供應外導\n\n04:34.867 --> 05:02.953\n但是因為中共院還有報告過中共院。沒關係,我今天我也退讓一點點。對。外導好多個。我現在就是手中金門。我外導現在可以提供六個。我六個現在已經完成了。六部或是四部。因為有兩部我會有再跟你們報告,因為這很重要。也許在本島要用。最快四部就可以先上。四部什麼時候?就是我已經完成了。已經完成在哪裡?對,大概年初就可以送過去。馬上可以提供。年初金門全面防護好。\n\n05:03.974 --> 05:08.806\n這是四部。四部到六部。金門的部分提供四部到六部。什麼時候?\n\n05:10.930 --> 05:16.532\n我跟委員報告好不好,委員不要為這個干擾我現在幾月幾號了,我跟各位也要報告,我們現在早就規定了,外離島在營區上空有這個調化,就是直接就射擊打掉了。\n\n05:37.941 --> 05:39.782\n二、審查本院委員二、審查本院委員\n\n06:04.741 --> 06:28.477\n反制系統今年年初來部長我想今天由我們國內自己主持極機密的國防軍事會談會議以及顧案計畫前前後後大概有十人在押我必須以一個負責任的執政黨說這是我們國防部跟我們國安系統有在控管\n\n06:29.378 --> 06:40.663\n有在控管才會查得到才會抓得到那我這邊後續根據我的了解他們拿到的這些資料也都是舊版的沒有更新的\n\n06:41.425 --> 06:42.526\n二、審查本院委員\n\n06:59.975 --> 07:22.222\n但是這些狀況發生了我要問的事情是是不是請政戰這邊回應一下他們是如何拿到因為是極機密他只是效極而已吼那如何拿到資料的這個部分知道嗎效極的人如何取得降級喔的會議資料這個部分可不可以說明\n\n07:23.325 --> 07:47.379\n我跟委員簡單報告就我們很多工作都有一定的規定有程序嚴格講起來也就沒有照這個程序所以他應該要直接交給誰然後歸黨他可能就中間轉發一個人給他叫他去歸這個當作出了問題所以我們是很沉痛的我們要檢討我們要檢討來鄭正這邊要不要說明一下\n\n07:48.783 --> 08:05.572\n報告委員,呃,這個,誠如剛剛部長所說的,在這個程序方面,我們確實有一些瑕疵。那另外呢,這個案子呢,因為呃,高等法院也在依法辦理。呃,會後我們是不是派員跟委員這邊做說明?\n\n08:08.327 --> 08:34.795\n來,那我問一下,這些資料的部分都是舊版的嗎?對不對?沒有用了嗎?還是應該怎麼說會比較好?我問委員報告,我倒並不是有新的舊的。新的舊的,台風防疫室在舊那麼大的地方,再怎麼調,這整體來講我並不界定在新的舊的問題。這國防部真的痛定思痛了。這是一個起死大路。那當時候是怎麼發現的?官兵檢舉\n\n08:39.330 --> 09:04.060\n關兵檢舉關兵檢舉所以我們到底這一套系統要怎麼我們內部到底要怎麼辦不好意思昭偉這邊要借一點時間然後我們看到一下兵推好不好這個下一個題目部長我近期有到這個國防大學還有國防安全研究院去考察那也很謝謝國防部身為昭偉當時我要求要把這個海昆號\n\n09:05.040 --> 09:05.840\n二、審查本院委員二、審查本院委員\n\n09:23.667 --> 09:51.895\n根據我的了解在美國也好或其他的這些所謂我們先進的這些國防的國家裡面以美國為例美國的三軍官校當中兵推課程是標準的配置那目前我看到我們台灣台灣中華民國的部分兵推是要等任官、任官、任官後在軍官的正規班才開始的我在這邊要問一下我們國防大學這邊\n\n09:53.763 --> 10:05.690\n國防大學有沒有自己的兵推系統?國防大學的兵推系統是用JTOS系統是跟國防部一起共用的。我們對照一下美軍好了,它畢竟是最大的系統之一,美軍的國軍人才在軍校18歲到22歲,\n\n10:18.297 --> 10:29.906\n他們的就有在培養他們並且讓他們有戰略跟戰術的思維畢竟我們的這個軍校的確是培育下一波也是國家重要國軍人才\n\n10:31.080 --> 10:54.231\n當然很多國軍會說拔草、掃地等等只是可能一百項工作裡面其中一項。我的認知是當我們的國軍從18歲很年輕就知道說未來的決策怎麼決策。其實這個國家我們再離題一下下我們在講智商我們在講這個IQ等等其實不是他腦部開發了幾部\n\n10:55.151 --> 10:55.491\n二、審查本院國民黨團擬具\n\n11:23.814 --> 11:43.817\n我跟委員報告,委員這個建議很好。事實上我現在要說明一下,所以兵推是個統稱,真正的推演有砂板推演、有兵器推演、有裝備推演。我所強調的,剛才委員所講的,在這個軍校裡面就做推演,這絕對可以做。我們認為科目要做之前,\n\n11:44.915 --> 11:47.118\n二、審查本院委員二、審查本院委員二、審查本院委員二、審查本院委員\n\n11:56.158 --> 12:00.883\n我理解國防大學現在用的是真的是所謂的高技術性的應該叫做JETOS系統,沒有錯。\n\n12:18.440 --> 12:44.736\n那JATO再看一個下一個PowerPoint好不好我們去這個國防安全研究院你看一下左邊跟右邊他們裡面這是Zoomout之後這是非常遙遠的看他們在做任何的參數放進去之後其實他這整個圖是會動的那我認為從對一個18歲到22歲的年輕人他們在看相對應的兵推等等的其實他會演繹出來\n\n12:45.757 --> 13:06.609\n甚至他很清楚的知道他動態他很及時非常的擬真就如同我當時候建議我們的這個很多非官他是用那個模擬器這樣子去看待因為越接近真實他越理解包含他的組織邏輯等等包含還有這個有趣性也會增加\n\n13:07.389 --> 13:32.618\n所以我在這邊講請看一下我們這個左下角這個框是各國使用的還有這些兵推的軟體等等是否這邊也幫軍校這邊爭取一下下我們是否可以因為畢竟18歲到20歲你要他看臺灣整島或整個印太東西的規模那個skill去做兵推或者沙盤推演太大了但是有些東西可以小部分小部分拆解讓他知道\n\n13:33.358 --> 13:54.050\n我應該如何跟我的同僚甚至不同的聯隊甚至不同的軍種他們之間的合作關係聯合的關係是什麼這邊部長可不可以這個意見您的想法呢這很好意見我就想說委員所這個表達出來這個是每個層級不一樣每個系統有不同層級就剛剛講的JETOS\n\n13:55.711 --> 14:10.148\n它已經到戰區系統了所以對一個我們排級或聯席以下單位來講的話它用不到那個所以現在各國都有一個手錶一樣這上面就是兵力如何配備如何在哪裡\n\n14:11.109 --> 14:11.469\n三、審查本院委員\n\n14:32.826 --> 14:34.527\n二、審查本院委員二、審查本院委員二、審查本院委員\n\n14:51.391 --> 14:51.911\n二、審查本院國民黨團擬具\n\n","segments":[{"start":1.57,"end":13.381,"text":"蔣偉,請打。謝謝主席,謝謝蔣偉。我們是不是先有請我們部長,還有我們的經濟部署長,連署長,謝謝。邱部長請,還有連署長請。產業發展署連署長。"},{"start":25.706,"end":45.453,"text":"國防部長還有我們經濟部的署長我想今天有個臨時提案也討論到無人機的部分那的確當時候在2022年8月31號金門這些無人機的滋擾非常的討厭非常的幼稚非常的無聊但是這些對於民心來講他是有一些"},{"start":46.894,"end":47.794,"text":"二、審查本院委員二、審查本院委員二、審查本院委員二、審查本院委員"},{"start":72.259,"end":85.509,"text":"我再問一個問題就好,我們的無人機的反制系統,我們什麼時候會上路?什麼時候會在外島?什麼時候可以完成?這個部分經濟部有沒有答案?國防部有沒有答案?我們壓一個時間點可以嗎?"},{"start":88.873,"end":113.845,"text":"我上回我記得召委有提出的問題,一個禮拜以內我們中科院他以現有的去做一個補強所以現在我們知道中科院數量夠的話我們可以先做吧至於要立案要做研發要做這個合作採購等等的後面照走但我不指望這個期限了,我們可以來補強的立刻補強"},{"start":114.625,"end":123.858,"text":"好,那我們無人機的反制系統,可不可以請部長這邊,可不可以給我大概的一個時間也好。那中科院你們覺得大概要多久可以把它給...張院長請。"},{"start":133.991,"end":152.736,"text":"根據就是後續國防部規劃總共26台外導的,那目前是113年13台、114年14台,如果沒錯的話,現在我是說先看國防部的指導,我們總會絕對可以配合。國防部現在還是要委外嗎?還是跟委員報告一下?"},{"start":156.749,"end":166.708,"text":"國務委員報告,這個無人機反制系統目前我們正在會同採購室和相關的…沒關係,程序我不管,我問的是時間。"},{"start":169.859,"end":194.079,"text":"時間就是勝利喔也就是在因為它的期程是113、114那這個目前會按照這個我等一下質詢時間會多增加兩分鐘會按照期限來走對我在期限是什麼113年13套114年也是13套那總共是26套所以明年的什麼時候到明年年底明年年底才會好還是"},{"start":195.3,"end":206.694,"text":"他的期程就是113年要完成13號。我的理解啦。不能拖這麼久啦。這樣子一拖變兩年的時間。所以我們今天的具體要求明年"},{"start":208.246,"end":235.128,"text":"三月份有沒有辦法好?四月份有沒有辦法好?我的認知是這樣子啦。剛剛部長回應非常的精準。他說中科院這邊先去擋著,去在那邊,先補上去,那之後什麼研發等等的,再後續再講。我想我理解是這樣子,如果沒有錯的話,是不是這樣子。所以換句話說,在民意的要求下,即刻就可以上路嗎?"},{"start":235.828,"end":255.346,"text":"我跟委員報告,大概他們還不了解,因為我跟中委院那天會後,我馬上跟他商量,我講現有什麼,有多少,如果可以的話就先出去,後面程序照走。好,那我期待今年農曆年前,可不可以全部,基本上全面上路好不好?不可以?"},{"start":258.067,"end":274.166,"text":"委員這樣子齁這個因為原來這個這個事情已經發生這麼久了喔對我院裡面因為院裡面給我一個時間給我一個時間我院裡面可以接手齁就是現在給我一個時間對就是今年我今年現有的六套我可以馬上供應外導"},{"start":274.867,"end":302.953,"text":"但是因為中共院還有報告過中共院。沒關係,我今天我也退讓一點點。對。外導好多個。我現在就是手中金門。我外導現在可以提供六個。我六個現在已經完成了。六部或是四部。因為有兩部我會有再跟你們報告,因為這很重要。也許在本島要用。最快四部就可以先上。四部什麼時候?就是我已經完成了。已經完成在哪裡?對,大概年初就可以送過去。馬上可以提供。年初金門全面防護好。"},{"start":303.974,"end":308.806,"text":"這是四部。四部到六部。金門的部分提供四部到六部。什麼時候?"},{"start":310.93,"end":316.532,"text":"我跟委員報告好不好,委員不要為這個干擾我現在幾月幾號了,我跟各位也要報告,我們現在早就規定了,外離島在營區上空有這個調化,就是直接就射擊打掉了。"},{"start":337.941,"end":339.782,"text":"二、審查本院委員二、審查本院委員"},{"start":364.741,"end":388.477,"text":"反制系統今年年初來部長我想今天由我們國內自己主持極機密的國防軍事會談會議以及顧案計畫前前後後大概有十人在押我必須以一個負責任的執政黨說這是我們國防部跟我們國安系統有在控管"},{"start":389.378,"end":400.663,"text":"有在控管才會查得到才會抓得到那我這邊後續根據我的了解他們拿到的這些資料也都是舊版的沒有更新的"},{"start":401.425,"end":402.526,"text":"二、審查本院委員"},{"start":419.975,"end":442.222,"text":"但是這些狀況發生了我要問的事情是是不是請政戰這邊回應一下他們是如何拿到因為是極機密他只是效極而已吼那如何拿到資料的這個部分知道嗎效極的人如何取得降級喔的會議資料這個部分可不可以說明"},{"start":443.325,"end":467.379,"text":"我跟委員簡單報告就我們很多工作都有一定的規定有程序嚴格講起來也就沒有照這個程序所以他應該要直接交給誰然後歸黨他可能就中間轉發一個人給他叫他去歸這個當作出了問題所以我們是很沉痛的我們要檢討我們要檢討來鄭正這邊要不要說明一下"},{"start":468.783,"end":485.572,"text":"報告委員,呃,這個,誠如剛剛部長所說的,在這個程序方面,我們確實有一些瑕疵。那另外呢,這個案子呢,因為呃,高等法院也在依法辦理。呃,會後我們是不是派員跟委員這邊做說明?"},{"start":488.327,"end":514.795,"text":"來,那我問一下,這些資料的部分都是舊版的嗎?對不對?沒有用了嗎?還是應該怎麼說會比較好?我問委員報告,我倒並不是有新的舊的。新的舊的,台風防疫室在舊那麼大的地方,再怎麼調,這整體來講我並不界定在新的舊的問題。這國防部真的痛定思痛了。這是一個起死大路。那當時候是怎麼發現的?官兵檢舉"},{"start":519.33,"end":544.06,"text":"關兵檢舉關兵檢舉所以我們到底這一套系統要怎麼我們內部到底要怎麼辦不好意思昭偉這邊要借一點時間然後我們看到一下兵推好不好這個下一個題目部長我近期有到這個國防大學還有國防安全研究院去考察那也很謝謝國防部身為昭偉當時我要求要把這個海昆號"},{"start":545.04,"end":545.84,"text":"二、審查本院委員二、審查本院委員"},{"start":563.667,"end":591.895,"text":"根據我的了解在美國也好或其他的這些所謂我們先進的這些國防的國家裡面以美國為例美國的三軍官校當中兵推課程是標準的配置那目前我看到我們台灣台灣中華民國的部分兵推是要等任官、任官、任官後在軍官的正規班才開始的我在這邊要問一下我們國防大學這邊"},{"start":593.763,"end":605.69,"text":"國防大學有沒有自己的兵推系統?國防大學的兵推系統是用JTOS系統是跟國防部一起共用的。我們對照一下美軍好了,它畢竟是最大的系統之一,美軍的國軍人才在軍校18歲到22歲,"},{"start":618.297,"end":629.906,"text":"他們的就有在培養他們並且讓他們有戰略跟戰術的思維畢竟我們的這個軍校的確是培育下一波也是國家重要國軍人才"},{"start":631.08,"end":654.231,"text":"當然很多國軍會說拔草、掃地等等只是可能一百項工作裡面其中一項。我的認知是當我們的國軍從18歲很年輕就知道說未來的決策怎麼決策。其實這個國家我們再離題一下下我們在講智商我們在講這個IQ等等其實不是他腦部開發了幾部"},{"start":655.151,"end":655.491,"text":"二、審查本院國民黨團擬具"},{"start":683.814,"end":703.817,"text":"我跟委員報告,委員這個建議很好。事實上我現在要說明一下,所以兵推是個統稱,真正的推演有砂板推演、有兵器推演、有裝備推演。我所強調的,剛才委員所講的,在這個軍校裡面就做推演,這絕對可以做。我們認為科目要做之前,"},{"start":704.915,"end":707.118,"text":"二、審查本院委員二、審查本院委員二、審查本院委員二、審查本院委員"},{"start":716.158,"end":720.883,"text":"我理解國防大學現在用的是真的是所謂的高技術性的應該叫做JETOS系統,沒有錯。"},{"start":738.44,"end":764.736,"text":"那JATO再看一個下一個PowerPoint好不好我們去這個國防安全研究院你看一下左邊跟右邊他們裡面這是Zoom out之後這是非常遙遠的看他們在做任何的參數放進去之後其實他這整個圖是會動的那我認為從對一個18歲到22歲的年輕人他們在看相對應的兵推等等的其實他會演繹出來"},{"start":765.757,"end":786.609,"text":"甚至他很清楚的知道他動態他很及時非常的擬真就如同我當時候建議我們的這個很多非官他是用那個模擬器這樣子去看待因為越接近真實他越理解包含他的組織邏輯等等包含還有這個有趣性也會增加"},{"start":787.389,"end":812.618,"text":"所以我在這邊講請看一下我們這個左下角這個框是各國使用的還有這些兵推的軟體等等是否這邊也幫軍校這邊爭取一下下我們是否可以因為畢竟18歲到20歲你要他看臺灣整島或整個印太東西的規模那個skill去做兵推或者沙盤推演太大了但是有些東西可以小部分小部分拆解讓他知道"},{"start":813.358,"end":834.05,"text":"我應該如何跟我的同僚甚至不同的聯隊甚至不同的軍種他們之間的合作關係聯合的關係是什麼這邊部長可不可以這個意見您的想法呢這很好意見我就想說委員所這個表達出來這個是每個層級不一樣每個系統有不同層級就剛剛講的JETOS"},{"start":835.711,"end":850.148,"text":"它已經到戰區系統了所以對一個我們排級或聯席以下單位來講的話它用不到那個所以現在各國都有一個手錶一樣這上面就是兵力如何配備如何在哪裡"},{"start":851.109,"end":851.469,"text":"三、審查本院委員"},{"start":872.826,"end":874.527,"text":"二、審查本院委員二、審查本院委員二、審查本院委員"},{"start":891.391,"end":891.911,"text":"二、審查本院國民黨團擬具"}]}}}}