{"id":149006,"url":"https://ivod.ly.gov.tw/Play/Clip/1M/149006","video_url":"https://ivod-lyvod.cdn.hinet.net/vod_1/_definst_/mp4:1MClips/fcca7cb692a387d6e275f41952e69f93ab799385851b1dc2c986728e607a03227c45cb4d80bcee6c5ea18f28b6918d91.mp4/playlist.m3u8","委員名稱":"吳玉琴","委員發言時間":"09:09:26 - 09:20:33","影片長度":"00:11:07","會議時間":"2023-12-13T09:00:00+08:00","會議名稱":"立法院第10屆第8會期社會福利及衛生環境委員會第14次全體委員會議（事由：審查\n一、委員劉世芳等16人擬具「勞工退休金條例第二十三條及第五十八條條文修正草案」案。\n二、委員謝衣鳯等16人擬具「勞工退休金條例第二十五條條文修正草案」案。\n三、委員溫玉霞等21人擬具「勞工退休金條例第十七條之一及第二十三條條文修正草案」案。\n四、委員陳明文等17人擬具「勞工退休金條例第三十三條條文修正草案」案。\n五、委員高嘉瑜等17人擬具「勞工退休金條例部分條文修正草案」案。\n六、委員張廖萬堅等22人擬具「勞工退休金條例第十四條、第十四條之一及第五十八條條文修正草案」案。\n七、委員郭國文等18人擬具「勞工退休金條例第十四條、第二十三條及第三十三條條文修正草案」案。\n八、委員廖國棟等17人擬具「勞工退休金條例第二十三條條文修正草案」案。\n九、委員賴士葆等21人擬具「勞工退休金條例第十四條、第十四條之一及第三十四條條文修正草案」案。\n十、委員楊瓊瓔等22人擬具「勞工退休金條例部分條文修正草案」案。\n十一、委員李貴敏等17人擬具「勞工退休金條例第二十四條之二條文修正草案」案。\n十二、委員邱泰源等18人擬具「勞工退休金條例第五十六條之四及第五十八條條文修正草案」案。\n十三、台灣民眾黨黨團擬具「勞工退休金條例第十四條、第三十九條及第五十八條條文修正草案」案。\n十四、台灣民眾黨黨團擬具「勞工退休金條例第十四條條文修正草案」案。\n十五、委員陳明文等21人擬具「勞工退休金條例第十四條條文修正草案」案。）","meet":{"tmpMeeting":null,"title":"第10屆第8會期社會福利及衛生環境委員會第14次全體委員會議","term":10,"type":"委員會","sessionPeriod":8,"sessionTimes":14,"committees":[26],"id":"委員會-10-8-26-14"},"date":"2023-12-13","duration":667,"end_time":"2023-12-13T09:20:33+08:00","start_time":"2023-12-13T09:09:26+08:00","features":["ai-transcript","gazette"],"type":"Clip","gazette":{"lineno":129,"blocks":[["吳委員玉琴：（9時9分）謝謝主席，我請我們許部長。"],["主席：有請許部長。"],["吳委員玉琴：部長早。今天是在討論勞工退休金條例，總共有15個提案，在這些提案裡面有一個很大的重點，就是勞工自提自選的部分，那我就這個部分來跟你討論。上一次10月25號我在質詢的時候，其實也針對自提自選的部分有跟部長做了一些討論，今天要跟部長討論的是勞退新制裡面相關的一個概念，到底是不是適合？因為你在報告裡面也特別提到對於自提自選的部分抱持開放的態度……"],["許部長銘春：對、對。"],["吳委員玉琴：我們就一起來討論。"],["許部長銘春：是。"],["吳委員玉琴：我自己在整理這樣的概念，像社會保險跟商業保險到底有哪些不同，部長是法律專家，像這樣的一個所謂的社會保險，最重要是增進我們的社會安全，由政府擔任保險人或委託民間來辦理，而且這個保費也是量能付費，社會保險一定要有強制性，符合資格就要納保，不得拒保；商業保險當然不一樣，商業保險比較沒有強制性，可以在評估風險之後拒保。最終還有一個差異，就是我們政府負最終的責任，所以有政府的角色在裡頭，商業保險大概沒有人敢做這種最終的保證。您自己認為勞退新制看起來有沒有像是保險公司創設年金保險的商品？像嗎？你覺得……"],["許部長銘春：當然不像。"],["吳委員玉琴：我們推動的社會保險應該不是商業保險。"],["許部長銘春：絕對不是。"],["吳委員玉琴：性質還是有一點不同。"],["許部長銘春：不同。"],["吳委員玉琴：我們特別想跟您談自提、自選這個議題，您剛剛也在報告說這是可以討論的。我發現有好幾個委員的版本也都有提到，因為6%是雇主提撥的，目前沒有人討論要交給代操業者來做，沒有人這樣提，大概都針對自提，希望未來有自選的部分。在勞退新制裡面自提、自選的概念架構下，跟儲蓄險、基金的投資比較，會有幾個問題跟幾個不同的狀態。勞退新制還是比較屬於強制性的，雇主提撥6%，它是不可以任意調動的，但是勞工自提的部分是可以調整的，我可以自提2%、3%、4%到6%，這個部分也有保本，有強迫儲蓄的概念，只是現在沒有開放自選。在儲蓄險或是基金投資上就比較開放，可以自由解約，不能強迫你購買，保費也是由他們自訂，如果要調整可能要另外再購買新的保約。這個部分看起來跟勞退新制裡面的基金是不一樣的概念。"],["許部長銘春：不同。"],["吳委員玉琴：三個性質還是有差異性。如果把勞退新制自提的部分當作基金投資操作，這樣OK嗎？你的看法呢？"],["許部長銘春：對，我們說抱持開放的態度是願意多聽大家的意見，其實這個議題一直以來……"],["吳委員玉琴：討論很久，你聽到什麼樣的聲音？"],["許部長銘春：對，我聽到的當然勞團是抱持比較保守的意見。"],["吳委員玉琴：是有疑慮的。"],["許部長銘春：他們是有疑慮的。他們大概有幾個重點，第一個是認為整個勞退基金目前的投資績效……"],["吳委員玉琴：好像還不錯。"],["許部長銘春：還不錯，沒有比民間差。就像委員剛剛講的，它是社會保險，所以必須維持一定的……"],["吳委員玉琴：而且政府負最終的責任。"],["許部長銘春：扮演社會的角色，所以應該以長期穩定投資來保障，就是我們剛剛講的保本，它其實是保本，在保本的情況下才能保障勞工退休之後的經濟安全。第二個，他們認為如果要自選的話就回歸市場機制，它其實會像委員剛剛提到商品的部分，如果要自選的話，可以自己藉由這個回歸市場，由業者推出好的商品……"],["吳委員玉琴：我們就可以自選。"],["許部長銘春：勞工可以自己……"],["吳委員玉琴：這個商品的部分……"],["許部長銘春：他可以運用自己的積蓄、金錢投資。再來還有一個他比較擔心的是，自選的投資基金將來會不會淪為民間業者調節資金的工具？"],["吳委員玉琴：是。"],["許部長銘春：他們比較保守。"],["吳委員玉琴：這是勞團的擔心啦。"],["許部長銘春：當然支持的會認為自選就是我自己負擔風險嘛，我自己拿錢，自選是我自己願意提撥的，不是強制，我也願意自擔風險。"],["吳委員玉琴：我就是要問部長這件事，通常投資基金的時候，基金公司都一直提醒有賺有賠，賺錢、賠錢都算自己的，勞退新制的自提自選如果類似投資基金，我自選去投資了，那賠錢算誰的？賺當然是自己的，賠錢算政府的嗎？"],["許部長銘春：沒有，這要算自選勞工的。"],["吳委員玉琴：自選的話就是個人要負擔啊，所以勞工也要負擔這樣的風險，對不對？"],["許部長銘春：對，他跟我們現在的……"],["吳委員玉琴：目前的勞退新制是……"],["許部長銘春：不一樣，我們這是保證收益，一定是保本。"],["吳委員玉琴：是。"],["許部長銘春：但如果開放自提自選的話，就自選這部分就是自己負擔風險。"],["吳委員玉琴：所以未來的設計可能要更複雜了，如果要做這樣的設計的時候。"],["許部長銘春：會比較複雜。不過其實我們做過調查，就是去年做的，雖然有四成三的勞工贊成自提自選，但當你進一步問他說你會不會選擇自選，他就會說那他還要看商品。"],["吳委員玉琴：因為商品的複雜度也是……"],["許部長銘春：只有大概9%勞工說他一定會自選，但是73%還是保留，他說到時候是不是自提之後會自選，還要看投資的商品，標的是如何。"],["吳委員玉琴：我們熟悉或是我們能理解這些商品的優劣嗎？這都是下一個問題。但是我在10月25號也跟部長討論過目前自提的狀況，自提的數量大概是11.52%，大概有83萬人。"],["許部長銘春：已經14%了，到今年有105萬人。"],["吳委員玉琴：好，所以有提升了。但是當時2022年的勞退新制自提勞工月平均工資是6萬3,000元左右，一般的提繳工資大概是4萬元，所以是比較高所得的勞工，大概高1.5倍左右啦；另外問勞工未提繳退休金的理由是什麼？答案是薪水不夠，占了1/4左右，所以這也看得出來，可能薪水低或低於4萬以下的勞工，要教他提撥再自提，這部分的勞工可能會有生吃都不夠了還要曬乾這種心態。如果我們針對自提自選的再給予相關的這個，會不會造成我們是在鼓勵富者越富，或是逆所得、所得逆分配的一個概念？可能這裡要特別注意。部長，你的想法如何？"],["許部長銘春：報告委員，因為自提的退休金是屬於個人專戶，就是提到個人專戶，其實它就是一個累積儲蓄的性質。"],["吳委員玉琴：所以不會影響到別人？"],["許部長銘春：我覺得是不會影響到別人，是個人自己的儲蓄，他透過這樣來累積儲蓄，然後提升個人退休所得，我覺得這個應該是沒有所謂逆所得或分配不均的問題。"],["吳委員玉琴：好，下一個就是最後一張，剛剛部長也提到社會保險是增進社會安全，整個是希望穩定，我看到新制勞退基金的規模大概3兆，私校的退撫金是741億，比起來規模實在是差異太大，一個是大戶，一個是散戶，而且新制的投資效益，2021年的數字是9.66，私校退撫基金的投資，大概穩健型的有到8.52，我們沒有比較差。"],["許部長銘春：絕對沒有。"],["吳委員玉琴：所以也呼應部長剛剛講的，因為社會保險是社會安全的延續……"],["許部長銘春：對。"],["吳委員玉琴：也希望退休後能夠有好的經濟安全。"],["許部長銘春：對。"],["吳委員玉琴：如果真的要做投資，那可能就去洽商業保險的部分。我想這個部分，如果有能力來處理就是回到商業性的，而這邊就是讓我們確保每個勞工退休的時候他有一筆基金，可以讓他有經濟安全的一個保障。"],["許部長銘春：是。"],["吳委員玉琴：所以我想這個概念也是跟您做討論，我相信就開放的討論，我們就一起針對自提自選的部分來做這樣的討論，謝謝。"],["許部長銘春：好。"],["吳委員玉琴：謝謝部長。"],["許部長銘春：謝謝吳委員。"],["主席：謝謝。下一位請蘇巧慧委員。"]],"agenda":{"page_end":392,"meet_id":"委員會-10-8-26-14","speakers":["吳欣盈","吳玉琴","蘇巧慧","賴惠員","張育美","陳瑩","徐志榮","陳椒華","黃秀芳","王婉諭","林為洲","邱泰源","洪申翰","陳培瑜","楊曜","莊競程"],"page_start":343,"meetingDate":["2023-12-13"],"gazette_id":"1130201","agenda_lcidc_ids":["1130201_00006"],"meet_name":"立法院第10屆第8會期社會福利及衛生環境委員會第14次全體委員會議紀錄","content":"審查 一、委員劉世芳等16人擬具「勞工退休金條例第二十三條及第五十八條條文修正草案」\n案；二、委員謝衣鳯等16人擬具「勞工退休金條例第二十五條條文修正草案」案；三、委員溫玉\n霞等21人擬具「勞工退休金條例第十七條之一及第二十三條條文修正草案」案；四、委員陳明文\n等17人擬具「勞工退休金條例第三十三條條文修正草案」案；五、委員高嘉瑜等17人擬具「勞工\n退休金條例部分條文修正草案」案；六、委員張廖萬堅等22人擬具「勞工退休金條例第十四條、\n第十四條之一及第五十八條條文修正草案」案；七、委員郭國文等18人擬具「勞工退休金條例第\n十四條、第二十三條及第三十三條條文修正草案」案；八、委員廖國棟等17人擬具「勞工退休金\n條例第二十三條條文修正草案」案；九、委員賴士葆等21人擬具「勞工退休金條例第十四條、第\n十四條之一及第三十四條條文修正草案」案；十、委員楊瓊瓔等22人擬具「勞工退休金條例部分\n條文修正草案」案；十一、委員李貴敏等17人擬具「勞工退休金條例第二十四條之二條文修正草\n案」案；十二、委員邱泰源等18人擬具「勞工退休金條例第五十六條之四及第五十八條條文修正\n草案」案；十三、台灣民眾黨黨團擬具「勞工退休金條例第十四條、第三十九條及第五十八條條\n文修正草案」案；十四、台灣民眾黨黨團擬具「勞工退休金條例第十四條條文修正草案」案；十\n五、委員陳明文等21人擬具「勞工退休金條例第十四條條文修正草案」案","agenda_id":"1130201_00005"}},"transcript":{"id":"149006","pyannote":{"name":"ronny","tool":"pyannote","data":{"url":"https://ivod.ly.gov.tw/Play/Clip/1M/149006","tool":"pyannote","id":"149006-pyannote"},"job_id":"36LngeI84ju4V3pm","queued_at":"2024-06-02 16:03:10","status":"done","log":[{"time":"2024-06-02 16:04:00","msg":"downloading 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\"start\": 636.738, \"end\": 636.758, \"score\": 0.0}], \"language\": \"zh\"}","srt":"1\n00:00:06,468 --> 00:00:06,889\n三、委員許部長\n\n2\n00:00:15,014 --> 00:00:38,656\n市長早我想今天是在討論這個勞工退休金條例總共有15個提案那我想在這提案裡面有一個部分很大的重點就是勞工的一個自提自選的部分那我來就這個部分來跟您做討論因為在上一次其實我10月25號我在質詢的時候其實也針對自提自選的部分有跟部長做了一些討論那我想今天在談\n\n3\n00:00:41,518 --> 00:01:06,253\n就是要跟部長討論的是勞退薪制裡面的這個相關的一個概念到底是不是適合因為你在報告裡面也特別提到說對於自提自選的部分抱持開放的態度我們就一起來討論那就是有關我自己在整理這樣的一些概念像社會保險跟商業保險到底它有哪些不同\n\n4\n00:01:06,713 --> 00:01:12,595\n第二十三條及第五十八條條文修正草案：立法院第十八條及第五十八條條文修正草案：立法院第十八條及第五十八條條文修正草案：立法院第十八條及第五十八條條文修正草案：立法院第十八條及第五十八條\n\n5\n00:01:35,902 --> 00:01:38,164\n三、委員劉世芳等16人擬具〈勞工退休金條例第二十三條及第五十八條條文修正草案案〉案。\n\n6\n00:02:00,726 --> 00:02:28,685\n你覺得我們在推動的社會保險應該不是商業保險啦那性質還是有一點不同啦好來下一頁那我們在談特別想跟您就自提自選這個議題您剛剛也在報告上說這個是可以討論的啦那我發現有好幾個委員的版本也都有提到希望能夠因為6%是雇主提撥的那個目前是沒有人討論\n\n7\n00:02:30,366 --> 00:02:31,767\n其中一人擬具:「勞工退休金條例第二十五條之一\n\n8\n00:02:55,640 --> 00:02:56,841\n第二十三條及第五十八條條文修正草案案\n\n9\n00:03:13,660 --> 00:03:14,741\n第二十三條及第五十八條條文修正草案案\n\n10\n00:03:31,457 --> 00:03:34,560\n其中一人擬具:「勞工退休金條例第二十五條之一\n\n11\n00:03:51,495 --> 00:04:01,942\n兩、委員三個性質還是有它相差性所以如果把勞退薪資的字體的部分當作基金來投資操作這樣OK嗎?\n\n12\n00:04:03,837 --> 00:04:05,539\n兩人擬具:「勞工退休金條例第二十五條之一\n\n13\n00:04:21,320 --> 00:04:24,404\n兩人擬具:「勞工退休金條例第二十五條之一\n\n14\n00:04:37,662 --> 00:04:53,569\n第二十三條及第五十八條條文修正草案：立法院第十七條及第五十八條條文修正草案：立法院第十七條及第五十八條條文修正草案：立法院第十七條及第五十八條條文修正草案：立法院第十七條及第五十八條條文修正草案：立法院第十七條及第五十八條條文修正草案：立法院第十七條及第五十八條條文修正草案：立法院第十七條及第五十八條條文修正草案：立法院第十七條及第五十八條條文修正草案：\n\n15\n00:05:06,670 --> 00:05:08,892\n自選回歸市場機制自選回歸市場機制自選回歸市場機制\n\n16\n00:05:34,551 --> 00:05:36,353\n二、委員劉世芳等16人擬具:「勞工退休金條例第二十五條之一\n\n17\n00:05:52,466 --> 00:05:55,428\n二、委員謝衣鳯等21人擬具«勞工退休金條例第二十五條之一\n\n18\n00:06:16,980 --> 00:06:24,029\n二、委員勞工退休金條例第三條及第五十八條條文修正草案：立法院第十八條及第五十八條條文修正草案：立法院第十八條及第五十八條\n\n19\n00:06:35,043 --> 00:06:35,603\n三、委員溫玉霞等21人擬具\n\n20\n00:06:51,514 --> 00:07:04,039\n三條及第五十八條條文修正草案：立法院第十八條及第五十八條條文修正草案：立法院第十八條及第五十八條條文修正草案：立法院第十八條及第五十八條條文修正草案：立法院第十八條及第五十八條條文修正草案：立法院第十八條及第五十八條條文修正草案：立法院第十八條及第五十八條條文\n\n21\n00:07:21,696 --> 00:07:24,821\n三、委員劉世芳等16人擬具:「勞工退休金條例第二十五條之一\n\n22\n00:07:37,859 --> 00:07:48,063\n投資的商品是那個標的是如何我們熟悉嗎或是我們能理解這些商品的優劣嗎這個是下一個都是下一個問題但是我在上次10月25號也跟部長討論過有關這個所謂目前的自體的狀況當然自體的數量大概是11.5\n\n23\n00:07:56,667 --> 00:08:07,209\n第五十二條條文修正草案：立法院第十三條及第五十五條條文修正草案：立法院第十四條條文修正草案：立法院第十三條條文修正草案：立法院第十四條條文修正草案：立法院第十四條條文修正草案：立法院第十四條條文修正草案：立法院第十四條條條文修正草案：立法院第十四條條條文修正草案：立法院第十四條條條文修正草案：立法院第十四條條條文修正草案：立法院第十四條條條條文修正草案�\n\n24\n00:08:25,433 --> 00:08:29,295\n三、委員溫玉霞等21人擬具«勞工退休金條例第二十五條之一\n\n25\n00:08:41,242 --> 00:08:43,244\n二、委員謝衣鳯等16人擬具«勞工退休金條例第十七條之一\n\n26\n00:09:02,185 --> 00:09:03,626\n議員劉世芳等16人擬具:「勞工退休金條例第二十五條之一\n\n27\n00:09:23,839 --> 00:09:27,141\n三條及第五十八條條文修正草案。」案。\n\n28\n00:09:50,616 --> 00:10:10,073\n我看到新智勞退基金的規模大概三兆那失效的一個退補金是741億這比起來其實是規模差異太大一個是大戶一個是散戶那所以基本上這個投資而且我們的新智的投資的基金效益\n\n29\n00:10:10,653 --> 00:10:34,798\n收益也2021年的數字是9.66那私下退撫基金的一個投資大概穩健型的大概也有到8.52我們沒有比較差所以剛剛也會呼應部長剛剛講的因為這社會保險是一個社會安全的延續也是希望退休後能夠有好的這個經濟安全\n\n30\n00:10:36,098 --> 00:10:36,758\n二、委員謝衣鳯等16人擬具\n\n","tsv":"start\tend\ttext\n6468\t6889\t三、委員許部長\n15014\t38656\t市長早我想今天是在討論這個勞工退休金條例總共有15個提案那我想在這提案裡面有一個部分很大的重點就是勞工的一個自提自選的部分那我來就這個部分來跟您做討論因為在上一次其實我10月25號我在質詢的時候其實也針對自提自選的部分有跟部長做了一些討論那我想今天在談\n41518\t66253\t就是要跟部長討論的是勞退薪制裡面的這個相關的一個概念到底是不是適合因為你在報告裡面也特別提到說對於自提自選的部分抱持開放的態度我們就一起來討論那就是有關我自己在整理這樣的一些概念像社會保險跟商業保險到底它有哪些不同\n66713\t72595\t第二十三條及第五十八條條文修正草案：立法院第十八條及第五十八條條文修正草案：立法院第十八條及第五十八條條文修正草案：立法院第十八條及第五十八條條文修正草案：立法院第十八條及第五十八條\n95902\t98164\t三、委員劉世芳等16人擬具〈勞工退休金條例第二十三條及第五十八條條文修正草案案〉案。\n120726\t148685\t你覺得我們在推動的社會保險應該不是商業保險啦那性質還是有一點不同啦好來下一頁那我們在談特別想跟您就自提自選這個議題您剛剛也在報告上說這個是可以討論的啦那我發現有好幾個委員的版本也都有提到希望能夠因為6%是雇主提撥的那個目前是沒有人討論\n150366\t151767\t其中一人擬具:「勞工退休金條例第二十五條之一\n175640\t176841\t第二十三條及第五十八條條文修正草案案\n193660\t194741\t第二十三條及第五十八條條文修正草案案\n211457\t214560\t其中一人擬具:「勞工退休金條例第二十五條之一\n231495\t241942\t兩、委員三個性質還是有它相差性所以如果把勞退薪資的字體的部分當作基金來投資操作這樣OK嗎?\n243837\t245539\t兩人擬具:「勞工退休金條例第二十五條之一\n261320\t264404\t兩人擬具:「勞工退休金條例第二十五條之一\n277662\t293569\t第二十三條及第五十八條條文修正草案：立法院第十七條及第五十八條條文修正草案：立法院第十七條及第五十八條條文修正草案：立法院第十七條及第五十八條條文修正草案：立法院第十七條及第五十八條條文修正草案：立法院第十七條及第五十八條條文修正草案：立法院第十七條及第五十八條條文修正草案：立法院第十七條及第五十八條條文修正草案：立法院第十七條及第五十八條條文修正草案：\n306670\t308892\t自選回歸市場機制 自選回歸市場機制 自選回歸市場機制\n334551\t336353\t二、委員劉世芳等16人擬具:「勞工退休金條例第二十五條之一\n352466\t355428\t二、委員謝衣鳯等21人擬具 «勞工退休金條例第二十五條之一\n376980\t384029\t二、委員勞工退休金條例第三條及第五十八條條文修正草案：立法院第十八條及第五十八條條文修正草案：立法院第十八條及第五十八條\n395043\t395603\t三、委員溫玉霞等21人擬具\n411514\t424039\t三條及第五十八條條文修正草案：立法院第十八條及第五十八條條文修正草案：立法院第十八條及第五十八條條文修正草案：立法院第十八條及第五十八條條文修正草案：立法院第十八條及第五十八條條文修正草案：立法院第十八條及第五十八條條文修正草案：立法院第十八條及第五十八條條文\n441696\t444821\t三、委員劉世芳等16人擬具:「勞工退休金條例第二十五條之一\n457859\t468063\t投資的商品是那個標的是如何我們熟悉嗎或是我們能理解這些商品的優劣嗎這個是下一個都是下一個問題但是我在上次10月25號也跟部長討論過有關這個所謂目前的自體的狀況當然自體的數量大概是11.5\n476667\t487209\t第五十二條條文修正草案：立法院第十三條及第五十五條條文修正草案：立法院第十四條條文修正草案：立法院第十三條條文修正草案：立法院第十四條條文修正草案：立法院第十四條條文修正草案：立法院第十四條條文修正草案：立法院第十四條條條文修正草案：立法院第十四條條條文修正草案：立法院第十四條條條文修正草案：立法院第十四條條條文修正草案：立法院第十四條條條條文修正草案�\n505433\t509295\t三、委員溫玉霞等21人擬具 «勞工退休金條例第二十五條之一\n521242\t523244\t二、委員謝衣鳯等16人擬具 «勞工退休金條例第十七條之一\n542185\t543626\t議員劉世芳等16人擬具:「勞工退休金條例第二十五條之一\n563839\t567141\t三條及第五十八條條文修正草案。」案。\n590616\t610073\t我看到新智勞退基金的規模大概三兆那失效的一個退補金是741億這比起來其實是規模差異太大一個是大戶一個是散戶那所以基本上這個投資而且我們的新智的投資的基金效益\n610653\t634798\t收益也2021年的數字是9.66那私下退撫基金的一個投資大概穩健型的大概也有到8.52我們沒有比較差所以剛剛也會呼應部長剛剛講的因為這社會保險是一個社會安全的延續也是希望退休後能夠有好的這個經濟安全\n636098\t636758\t二、委員謝衣鳯等16人擬具\n","txt":"三、委員許部長\n市長早我想今天是在討論這個勞工退休金條例總共有15個提案那我想在這提案裡面有一個部分很大的重點就是勞工的一個自提自選的部分那我來就這個部分來跟您做討論因為在上一次其實我10月25號我在質詢的時候其實也針對自提自選的部分有跟部長做了一些討論那我想今天在談\n就是要跟部長討論的是勞退薪制裡面的這個相關的一個概念到底是不是適合因為你在報告裡面也特別提到說對於自提自選的部分抱持開放的態度我們就一起來討論那就是有關我自己在整理這樣的一些概念像社會保險跟商業保險到底它有哪些不同\n第二十三條及第五十八條條文修正草案：立法院第十八條及第五十八條條文修正草案：立法院第十八條及第五十八條條文修正草案：立法院第十八條及第五十八條條文修正草案：立法院第十八條及第五十八條\n三、委員劉世芳等16人擬具〈勞工退休金條例第二十三條及第五十八條條文修正草案案〉案。\n你覺得我們在推動的社會保險應該不是商業保險啦那性質還是有一點不同啦好來下一頁那我們在談特別想跟您就自提自選這個議題您剛剛也在報告上說這個是可以討論的啦那我發現有好幾個委員的版本也都有提到希望能夠因為6%是雇主提撥的那個目前是沒有人討論\n其中一人擬具:「勞工退休金條例第二十五條之一\n第二十三條及第五十八條條文修正草案案\n第二十三條及第五十八條條文修正草案案\n其中一人擬具:「勞工退休金條例第二十五條之一\n兩、委員三個性質還是有它相差性所以如果把勞退薪資的字體的部分當作基金來投資操作這樣OK嗎?\n兩人擬具:「勞工退休金條例第二十五條之一\n兩人擬具:「勞工退休金條例第二十五條之一\n第二十三條及第五十八條條文修正草案：立法院第十七條及第五十八條條文修正草案：立法院第十七條及第五十八條條文修正草案：立法院第十七條及第五十八條條文修正草案：立法院第十七條及第五十八條條文修正草案：立法院第十七條及第五十八條條文修正草案：立法院第十七條及第五十八條條文修正草案：立法院第十七條及第五十八條條文修正草案：立法院第十七條及第五十八條條文修正草案：\n自選回歸市場機制 自選回歸市場機制 自選回歸市場機制\n二、委員劉世芳等16人擬具:「勞工退休金條例第二十五條之一\n二、委員謝衣鳯等21人擬具 «勞工退休金條例第二十五條之一\n二、委員勞工退休金條例第三條及第五十八條條文修正草案：立法院第十八條及第五十八條條文修正草案：立法院第十八條及第五十八條\n三、委員溫玉霞等21人擬具\n三條及第五十八條條文修正草案：立法院第十八條及第五十八條條文修正草案：立法院第十八條及第五十八條條文修正草案：立法院第十八條及第五十八條條文修正草案：立法院第十八條及第五十八條條文修正草案：立法院第十八條及第五十八條條文修正草案：立法院第十八條及第五十八條條文\n三、委員劉世芳等16人擬具:「勞工退休金條例第二十五條之一\n投資的商品是那個標的是如何我們熟悉嗎或是我們能理解這些商品的優劣嗎這個是下一個都是下一個問題但是我在上次10月25號也跟部長討論過有關這個所謂目前的自體的狀況當然自體的數量大概是11.5\n第五十二條條文修正草案：立法院第十三條及第五十五條條文修正草案：立法院第十四條條文修正草案：立法院第十三條條文修正草案：立法院第十四條條文修正草案：立法院第十四條條文修正草案：立法院第十四條條文修正草案：立法院第十四條條條文修正草案：立法院第十四條條條文修正草案：立法院第十四條條條文修正草案：立法院第十四條條條文修正草案：立法院第十四條條條條文修正草案�\n三、委員溫玉霞等21人擬具 «勞工退休金條例第二十五條之一\n二、委員謝衣鳯等16人擬具 «勞工退休金條例第十七條之一\n議員劉世芳等16人擬具:「勞工退休金條例第二十五條之一\n三條及第五十八條條文修正草案。」案。\n我看到新智勞退基金的規模大概三兆那失效的一個退補金是741億這比起來其實是規模差異太大一個是大戶一個是散戶那所以基本上這個投資而且我們的新智的投資的基金效益\n收益也2021年的數字是9.66那私下退撫基金的一個投資大概穩健型的大概也有到8.52我們沒有比較差所以剛剛也會呼應部長剛剛講的因為這社會保險是一個社會安全的延續也是希望退休後能夠有好的這個經濟安全\n二、委員謝衣鳯等16人擬具\n","vtt":"WEBVTT\n\n00:06.468 --> 00:06.889\n三、委員許部長\n\n00:15.014 --> 00:38.656\n市長早我想今天是在討論這個勞工退休金條例總共有15個提案那我想在這提案裡面有一個部分很大的重點就是勞工的一個自提自選的部分那我來就這個部分來跟您做討論因為在上一次其實我10月25號我在質詢的時候其實也針對自提自選的部分有跟部長做了一些討論那我想今天在談\n\n00:41.518 --> 01:06.253\n就是要跟部長討論的是勞退薪制裡面的這個相關的一個概念到底是不是適合因為你在報告裡面也特別提到說對於自提自選的部分抱持開放的態度我們就一起來討論那就是有關我自己在整理這樣的一些概念像社會保險跟商業保險到底它有哪些不同\n\n01:06.713 --> 01:12.595\n第二十三條及第五十八條條文修正草案：立法院第十八條及第五十八條條文修正草案：立法院第十八條及第五十八條條文修正草案：立法院第十八條及第五十八條條文修正草案：立法院第十八條及第五十八條\n\n01:35.902 --> 01:38.164\n三、委員劉世芳等16人擬具〈勞工退休金條例第二十三條及第五十八條條文修正草案案〉案。\n\n02:00.726 --> 02:28.685\n你覺得我們在推動的社會保險應該不是商業保險啦那性質還是有一點不同啦好來下一頁那我們在談特別想跟您就自提自選這個議題您剛剛也在報告上說這個是可以討論的啦那我發現有好幾個委員的版本也都有提到希望能夠因為6%是雇主提撥的那個目前是沒有人討論\n\n02:30.366 --> 02:31.767\n其中一人擬具:「勞工退休金條例第二十五條之一\n\n02:55.640 --> 02:56.841\n第二十三條及第五十八條條文修正草案案\n\n03:13.660 --> 03:14.741\n第二十三條及第五十八條條文修正草案案\n\n03:31.457 --> 03:34.560\n其中一人擬具:「勞工退休金條例第二十五條之一\n\n03:51.495 --> 04:01.942\n兩、委員三個性質還是有它相差性所以如果把勞退薪資的字體的部分當作基金來投資操作這樣OK嗎?\n\n04:03.837 --> 04:05.539\n兩人擬具:「勞工退休金條例第二十五條之一\n\n04:21.320 --> 04:24.404\n兩人擬具:「勞工退休金條例第二十五條之一\n\n04:37.662 --> 04:53.569\n第二十三條及第五十八條條文修正草案：立法院第十七條及第五十八條條文修正草案：立法院第十七條及第五十八條條文修正草案：立法院第十七條及第五十八條條文修正草案：立法院第十七條及第五十八條條文修正草案：立法院第十七條及第五十八條條文修正草案：立法院第十七條及第五十八條條文修正草案：立法院第十七條及第五十八條條文修正草案：立法院第十七條及第五十八條條文修正草案：\n\n05:06.670 --> 05:08.892\n自選回歸市場機制自選回歸市場機制自選回歸市場機制\n\n05:34.551 --> 05:36.353\n二、委員劉世芳等16人擬具:「勞工退休金條例第二十五條之一\n\n05:52.466 --> 05:55.428\n二、委員謝衣鳯等21人擬具«勞工退休金條例第二十五條之一\n\n06:16.980 --> 06:24.029\n二、委員勞工退休金條例第三條及第五十八條條文修正草案：立法院第十八條及第五十八條條文修正草案：立法院第十八條及第五十八條\n\n06:35.043 --> 06:35.603\n三、委員溫玉霞等21人擬具\n\n06:51.514 --> 07:04.039\n三條及第五十八條條文修正草案：立法院第十八條及第五十八條條文修正草案：立法院第十八條及第五十八條條文修正草案：立法院第十八條及第五十八條條文修正草案：立法院第十八條及第五十八條條文修正草案：立法院第十八條及第五十八條條文修正草案：立法院第十八條及第五十八條條文\n\n07:21.696 --> 07:24.821\n三、委員劉世芳等16人擬具:「勞工退休金條例第二十五條之一\n\n07:37.859 --> 07:48.063\n投資的商品是那個標的是如何我們熟悉嗎或是我們能理解這些商品的優劣嗎這個是下一個都是下一個問題但是我在上次10月25號也跟部長討論過有關這個所謂目前的自體的狀況當然自體的數量大概是11.5\n\n07:56.667 --> 08:07.209\n第五十二條條文修正草案：立法院第十三條及第五十五條條文修正草案：立法院第十四條條文修正草案：立法院第十三條條文修正草案：立法院第十四條條文修正草案：立法院第十四條條文修正草案：立法院第十四條條文修正草案：立法院第十四條條條文修正草案：立法院第十四條條條文修正草案：立法院第十四條條條文修正草案：立法院第十四條條條文修正草案：立法院第十四條條條條文修正草案�\n\n08:25.433 --> 08:29.295\n三、委員溫玉霞等21人擬具«勞工退休金條例第二十五條之一\n\n08:41.242 --> 08:43.244\n二、委員謝衣鳯等16人擬具«勞工退休金條例第十七條之一\n\n09:02.185 --> 09:03.626\n議員劉世芳等16人擬具:「勞工退休金條例第二十五條之一\n\n09:23.839 --> 09:27.141\n三條及第五十八條條文修正草案。」案。\n\n09:50.616 --> 10:10.073\n我看到新智勞退基金的規模大概三兆那失效的一個退補金是741億這比起來其實是規模差異太大一個是大戶一個是散戶那所以基本上這個投資而且我們的新智的投資的基金效益\n\n10:10.653 --> 10:34.798\n收益也2021年的數字是9.66那私下退撫基金的一個投資大概穩健型的大概也有到8.52我們沒有比較差所以剛剛也會呼應部長剛剛講的因為這社會保險是一個社會安全的延續也是希望退休後能夠有好的這個經濟安全\n\n10:36.098 --> 10:36.758\n二、委員謝衣鳯等16人擬具\n\n","segments":[{"start":6.468,"end":6.889,"text":"三、委員許部長"},{"start":15.014,"end":38.656,"text":"市長早我想今天是在討論這個勞工退休金條例總共有15個提案那我想在這提案裡面有一個部分很大的重點就是勞工的一個自提自選的部分那我來就這個部分來跟您做討論因為在上一次其實我10月25號我在質詢的時候其實也針對自提自選的部分有跟部長做了一些討論那我想今天在談"},{"start":41.518,"end":66.253,"text":"就是要跟部長討論的是勞退薪制裡面的這個相關的一個概念到底是不是適合因為你在報告裡面也特別提到說對於自提自選的部分抱持開放的態度我們就一起來討論那就是有關我自己在整理這樣的一些概念像社會保險跟商業保險到底它有哪些不同"},{"start":66.713,"end":72.595,"text":"第二十三條及第五十八條條文修正草案：立法院第十八條及第五十八條條文修正草案：立法院第十八條及第五十八條條文修正草案：立法院第十八條及第五十八條條文修正草案：立法院第十八條及第五十八條"},{"start":95.902,"end":98.164,"text":"三、委員劉世芳等16人擬具〈勞工退休金條例第二十三條及第五十八條條文修正草案案〉案。"},{"start":120.726,"end":148.685,"text":"你覺得我們在推動的社會保險應該不是商業保險啦那性質還是有一點不同啦好來下一頁那我們在談特別想跟您就自提自選這個議題您剛剛也在報告上說這個是可以討論的啦那我發現有好幾個委員的版本也都有提到希望能夠因為6%是雇主提撥的那個目前是沒有人討論"},{"start":150.366,"end":151.767,"text":"其中一人擬具:「勞工退休金條例第二十五條之一"},{"start":175.64,"end":176.841,"text":"第二十三條及第五十八條條文修正草案案"},{"start":193.66,"end":194.741,"text":"第二十三條及第五十八條條文修正草案案"},{"start":211.457,"end":214.56,"text":"其中一人擬具:「勞工退休金條例第二十五條之一"},{"start":231.495,"end":241.942,"text":"兩、委員三個性質還是有它相差性所以如果把勞退薪資的字體的部分當作基金來投資操作這樣OK嗎?"},{"start":243.837,"end":245.539,"text":"兩人擬具:「勞工退休金條例第二十五條之一"},{"start":261.32,"end":264.404,"text":"兩人擬具:「勞工退休金條例第二十五條之一"},{"start":277.662,"end":293.569,"text":"第二十三條及第五十八條條文修正草案：立法院第十七條及第五十八條條文修正草案：立法院第十七條及第五十八條條文修正草案：立法院第十七條及第五十八條條文修正草案：立法院第十七條及第五十八條條文修正草案：立法院第十七條及第五十八條條文修正草案：立法院第十七條及第五十八條條文修正草案：立法院第十七條及第五十八條條文修正草案：立法院第十七條及第五十八條條文修正草案："},{"start":306.67,"end":308.892,"text":"自選回歸市場機制 自選回歸市場機制 自選回歸市場機制"},{"start":334.551,"end":336.353,"text":"二、委員劉世芳等16人擬具:「勞工退休金條例第二十五條之一"},{"start":352.466,"end":355.428,"text":"二、委員謝衣鳯等21人擬具 «勞工退休金條例第二十五條之一"},{"start":376.98,"end":384.029,"text":"二、委員勞工退休金條例第三條及第五十八條條文修正草案：立法院第十八條及第五十八條條文修正草案：立法院第十八條及第五十八條"},{"start":395.043,"end":395.603,"text":"三、委員溫玉霞等21人擬具"},{"start":411.514,"end":424.039,"text":"三條及第五十八條條文修正草案：立法院第十八條及第五十八條條文修正草案：立法院第十八條及第五十八條條文修正草案：立法院第十八條及第五十八條條文修正草案：立法院第十八條及第五十八條條文修正草案：立法院第十八條及第五十八條條文修正草案：立法院第十八條及第五十八條條文"},{"start":441.696,"end":444.821,"text":"三、委員劉世芳等16人擬具:「勞工退休金條例第二十五條之一"},{"start":457.859,"end":468.063,"text":"投資的商品是那個標的是如何我們熟悉嗎或是我們能理解這些商品的優劣嗎這個是下一個都是下一個問題但是我在上次10月25號也跟部長討論過有關這個所謂目前的自體的狀況當然自體的數量大概是11.5"},{"start":476.667,"end":487.209,"text":"第五十二條條文修正草案：立法院第十三條及第五十五條條文修正草案：立法院第十四條條文修正草案：立法院第十三條條文修正草案：立法院第十四條條文修正草案：立法院第十四條條文修正草案：立法院第十四條條文修正草案：立法院第十四條條條文修正草案：立法院第十四條條條文修正草案：立法院第十四條條條文修正草案：立法院第十四條條條文修正草案：立法院第十四條條條條文修正草案�"},{"start":505.433,"end":509.295,"text":"三、委員溫玉霞等21人擬具 «勞工退休金條例第二十五條之一"},{"start":521.242,"end":523.244,"text":"二、委員謝衣鳯等16人擬具 «勞工退休金條例第十七條之一"},{"start":542.185,"end":543.626,"text":"議員劉世芳等16人擬具:「勞工退休金條例第二十五條之一"},{"start":563.839,"end":567.141,"text":"三條及第五十八條條文修正草案。」案。"},{"start":590.616,"end":610.073,"text":"我看到新智勞退基金的規模大概三兆那失效的一個退補金是741億這比起來其實是規模差異太大一個是大戶一個是散戶那所以基本上這個投資而且我們的新智的投資的基金效益"},{"start":610.653,"end":634.798,"text":"收益也2021年的數字是9.66那私下退撫基金的一個投資大概穩健型的大概也有到8.52我們沒有比較差所以剛剛也會呼應部長剛剛講的因為這社會保險是一個社會安全的延續也是希望退休後能夠有好的這個經濟安全"},{"start":636.098,"end":636.758,"text":"二、委員謝衣鳯等16人擬具"}]}}}}