{"id":149021,"url":"https://ivod.ly.gov.tw/Play/Clip/1M/149021","video_url":"https://ivod-lyvod.cdn.hinet.net/vod_1/_definst_/mp4:1MClips/60e87dad815fd5c3d57bfbf4381f71cba8fa0c68b4c214c5c986728e607a0322b68fd153a217bd045ea18f28b6918d91.mp4/playlist.m3u8","委員名稱":"洪申翰","委員發言時間":"09:21:59 - 09:34:14","影片長度":"00:12:15","會議時間":"2023-12-14T09:00:00+08:00","會議名稱":"立法院第10屆第8會期社會福利及衛生環境委員會第15次全體委員會議（事由：邀請環境部部長、外交部、經濟部、衛生福利部、農業部、內政部、交通部、國家科學及技術委員會、財政部、金融監督管理委員會及財團法人國際合作發展基金會就「第二十八屆聯合國氣候變遷大會(COP28)返國報告與後續因應情形」進行專題報告，並備質詢。）","meet":{"tmpMeeting":null,"title":"第10屆第8會期社會福利及衛生環境委員會第15次全體委員會議","term":10,"type":"委員會","sessionPeriod":8,"sessionTimes":15,"committees":[26],"id":"委員會-10-8-26-15"},"date":"2023-12-14","duration":735,"end_time":"2023-12-14T09:34:14+08:00","start_time":"2023-12-14T09:21:59+08:00","features":["ai-transcript","gazette"],"type":"Clip","gazette":{"lineno":377,"blocks":[["洪委員申翰：（9時22分）請薛部長、李次長還有曾次長。"],["主席：有請行政單位官員們，謝謝。"],["薛部長富盛：洪委員好。"],["洪委員申翰：部長好、兩位次長好。這一次COP28經歷了二個禮拜的相關會議，每年都是國際上氣候變遷討論最重要的盛事之一，在這兩個禮拜裡面，當然有很多重要的討論跟波折，一直到昨天，甚至到昨天的深夜，最後的共識其實才做了產出，我想大家其實都有盯到最後一刻。","我想先問一個事情，其實在第一週的談判、在進行第一週會議的時間裡面，我覺得臺灣媒體做了滿多報導的一個事情，就是好像有20幾個國家，他們發出了所謂2050會增三倍核能的倡議，就部長的瞭解，這個事情是這個大會最後的結論跟共識嗎？"],["薛部長富盛：沒有，事實上沒有得到共識，因為其他有共識的都將近有200個國家；剛剛洪委員提到的才22個，而且那22個大部分都是本身在核能發展以及產業方面，事實上也算相當成熟的，他們使用的比例很高。"],["洪委員申翰：所以我們看到那幾天媒體報出來以後，我們有幾位在野黨的總統候選人都非常非常興奮，甚至直接把它寫成說，這是COP28的共識，我想這並不是一個事實。","接下來我想請問曾次長，我想大家其實已經看到，甚至現在有人把它定名為叫做UAE共識、阿聯酋共識。在阿聯酋共識裡面，我們看到在這一次的談判裡面最清楚跟最具體的一個條文，其實就在於2030年以前要將再生能源裝置量提升三倍，以及每年平均的能源效率提升兩倍。在這一段時間中，這個想法的提出並不只是在最後，包括在一開始會議的時候就有提出來，我想這部分經濟部有沒有做一些相關的幕僚作業跟討論？"],["曾次長文生：謝謝委員。其實除了具體承諾跟能源有關，大概這兩點是最重要的結論，除了這個以外，其實一些具體的作法，包括要讓供應鏈更有韌性等等，很多，還有包括協助開發中國家，這些相關工作其實我們都有把它整理起來。我簡單講兩個事情：第一個，有關於再生能源的部分，我們是要把現在成熟的再生能源能夠加速，也讓它加量，除了這個以外，我們要更多元化的來發展再生能源，這個是臺灣現在政策正在推動的工作，我們也希望能夠把再生能源的裝置儘快地再提升。除此之外，第二個有關於委員提到能效的部分，能效的部分大概簡單來講就是希望全球的年均能源效率改善目標能夠從2%提升到4%，它的計算方法是用初級能源的供給去除以GDP……"],["洪委員申翰：次長，因為時間有限，我可能要打斷……"],["曾次長文生：好，那我簡單講，委員，從2016年到2022年，臺灣初級能源的能源密集度年均改善達4.2%，過去這幾年我們改善的量是比它要求的4%再多一點。"],["洪委員申翰：好，次長，那我就更具體問下面一個問題。很多媒體都關注在這一次COP28的結論之後，像這個最重要的再生能源三倍、能效兩倍，我們能不能夠針對這個結論再做臺灣國內政策加碼的承諾？也就是順應國際上再生能源三倍跟能效兩倍來作為我們2030年再生能源跟能效的目標，這部分我們有沒有辦法順應這個再做加碼的承諾？"],["曾次長文生：跟委員報告，如果它的基礎年是用2022年來做，我們到2030年平均來講，我們的光電目前規劃的量是能夠達到三倍，風電的量也應該會有2022年的裝置容量的三倍，所以在裝置容量的增加上是可以達成目標的。"],["洪委員申翰：所以再生能源三倍是可以承諾的？"],["曾次長文生：是會達成目標的。"],["洪委員申翰：是會達成的？好。"],["曾次長文生：依照我們現在的規劃，除了這個以外，第二個部分有關能源效率，就是初級能源供給的密集度這一塊，我們去年年均的改善是4.2%，今年預估可能會有機會超過6%，就是供給量，我們使用量下降了，GDP成長了，所以我們改善率是還不錯，我們也希望2030年這個改善4 %的目標能夠達成，年均改善4%。"],["洪委員申翰：我更簡單的說，現在我們臺灣的政府也再次承諾了順應目前COP28的共識結論，相較於2022年，再生能源三倍跟能效兩倍這件事情我們是可以承諾的，這沒問題的，對不對？"],["曾次長文生：跟委員報告，我剛才的說明是要講過去這幾年其實我們就順著這個軌跡在做，我們看到的現象……"],["洪委員申翰：也就是說我們就在這個軌跡上面……"],["曾次長文生：對。"],["洪委員申翰：我們其實就是在這個方向上面，所以這個承諾是我們可以承諾的事情，這是第一點……"],["曾次長文生：我們希望這個軌跡能夠繼續順利的往上走，就是朝著這一個比率繼續改善。"],["洪委員申翰：好，我覺得這個部分很重要，這當然也代表了國內的政策其實跟國際上是很清楚接軌的，並沒有所謂違逆國際的趨勢跟方向，這是第一點。","下面一個問題，次長，我要問的是，在這次會議裡面我們發現有很多包括歐洲的國家，因為烏俄戰爭的原因，他們其實都花了很多力氣在提升能源效率的部分，當然臺灣看起來，因為我們能源價格的變動沒有人家高，所以我想問次長的是，現在經濟部有沒有對於各國，尤其是對提升能源效率的這些新作法有密切的、高度的掌握？"],["曾次長文生：有關這個部分，委員的建議就是我們來做「前瞻技術追蹤平台」，其實我們平常都在追啦，但是沒有把它集合起來成為一個平台提供給大家參考，我來要求能源署，我們一起來做相關的工作。"],["洪委員申翰：次長，這個問題其實我是想要接下一個問題，但我現在想要請薛部長。部長，我要問你，你覺得我們達成2050淨零排放目標有辦法只靠自己嗎？你覺得可以只靠自己嗎？"],["薛部長富盛：需要國內跨部會跟產業，當然……"],["洪委員申翰：我說的不是環境部，我說的是臺灣自己。"],["薛部長富盛：臺灣自己……"],["洪委員申翰：可以只靠自己就達成嗎？"],["薛部長富盛：應該要跟大家合作。"],["洪委員申翰：需要跟大家合作，對不對？"],["薛部長富盛：是，沒錯。"],["洪委員申翰：部長，我這次去其實很明顯的知道，我們的淨零排放這件事情幾乎不可能只靠臺灣自己，我們需要靠大量的國際合作。"],["薛部長富盛：是。"],["洪委員申翰：部長，你覺得現在臺灣正在進行包括氣候跟淨零相關的國際合作，足夠我們達成剛才所說2050的淨零排放的工作嗎？我們現在的國際合作夠了嗎？"],["薛部長富盛：我們還要繼續擴大國際的合作。"],["洪委員申翰：需要擴大嘛？"],["薛部長富盛：是，絕對要擴大。"],["洪委員申翰：部長說的好。因為我的時間有限，部長，我自己有一個具體的建議，我認為我們臺灣就氣候或者是淨零來說，我們的國際合作應該更有戰略性。我提一件事情，其實我們有很多友邦國家是太平洋的島國，每一次在氣候談判裡面都是非常重要也非常受矚目的所謂小島國家的聯盟，可是我們對於這些友邦，就我自己的觀察，我們恐怕是可以跟他們建立一個更清楚的、甚至是更具戰略意義的合作關係，甚至我們也可以幫他們發聲，他們每一次在氣候談判裡面都是大家最注目的一個聲音……"],["薛部長富盛：是，沒錯。"],["洪委員申翰：也是我們最好的合作對象，但我說實話，我覺得我們現在對他們國內狀況的瞭解跟掌握，我自己這次去完以後，我覺得還不夠高……"],["薛部長富盛：給洪委員報告……"],["洪委員申翰：所以我覺得我們需要更多系統性的戰略合作，這是我想提的第一點建議。"],["薛部長富盛：是。好。"],["洪委員申翰：第二點就是剛剛跟次長講到的問題，我們沒有辦法靠自己的力量就完成淨零轉型，我們需要很多來自國際的新的技術、前瞻的技術，現在到底發展到最前沿的是哪幾個國家、哪幾個企業、哪幾個公司、哪幾個社群裡面已經有最新的demo，我們需要知道這件事情，所以我覺得我們應該在國際合作的概念之下，有一個最新的、具前瞻技術的追蹤平臺，這部分可能是經濟部應該可以扮演很多角色，可能不只是能效，包括再生能源、包括氫能，所有只要更新的技術的話，我們都不排斥，我們都必須密切追蹤，甚至我都覺得對於一些新的核能技術，我們也該追蹤，這我都同意。","再來一個事情是，我們的發展機制，包括一些規範性的機制，尤其像我知道，現在我們很多產業都在討論CBAM歐盟的碳邊境調整，可是大家現在只關注這個階段，那請問下個階段呢？下個階段其實也在討論中，可是我想就環境部來說，你們對於歐盟可能下一個階段的CBAM目前掌握度到什麼程度？"],["薛部長富盛：事實上不只歐盟，包括我們跟美國、新加坡、日本等國家也都有在接觸。另外，我針對剛剛洪委員特別講到的中間這個部分，事實上李次長或許也可以講，今年7月份外交部就已經跟4個太平洋友邦……"],["洪委員申翰：部長，對不起，因為時間有限。我自己真的覺得其實在環境部或國發會應該直接來帶領一個國際合作的專案，這個國際合作專案應該包括前瞻技術、包括小島國家的合作，也包括一些新的治理機制的未來前瞻的進一步發展，我覺得這件事情可能拼湊起來對於臺灣在做淨零跟氣候變遷的問題上面，跟國際上面的連結，我覺得我們需要做這個事情。","最後我要提醒一點，我們都知道我們在UN裡面的參與是相對比較困難的，我們要參與聯合國比較困難，我覺得我們也需要發展更多在UN以外的國際合作的參與平臺，這部分我覺得是環境部現在還相對比較欠缺的部分，我這邊其實有列了一些是在聯合國以外的參與機制，我希望可以請部長再帶回去討論，哪些部分其實我們應該積極的再去參與，而不只是說因為我們不是UN的締約國……"],["薛部長富盛：是。"],["洪委員申翰：所以我們在這裡面談判會相對受限的問題，其實在其他地方，我們可以有很好的發揮。以上種種建議，部長，可不可以把這些建議帶到行政院或帶到國發會裡面跟龔主委、跟陳院長來討論，這是我們應該做的事情，部長，可以嗎？"],["薛部長富盛：可以。給洪委員報告，昨天下午就已經跟陳院長報告過了，事實上剛剛洪委員講的這個部分都有cover在內。"],["洪委員申翰：部長，我們希望你們的討論有一個好的結果，那看可不可以在一個月後給我們相關的規劃的訊息，可以嗎？一個月後。"],["薛部長富盛：一個月？可以。"],["洪委員申翰：好。謝謝。"],["薛部長富盛：謝謝洪委員。"],["主席：謝謝洪委員，下一位請蘇巧慧委員。"]],"agenda":{"page_end":466,"meet_id":"委員會-10-8-26-15","speakers":["吳欣盈","洪申翰","蘇巧慧","吳玉琴","林為洲","邱泰源","黃秀芳","陳椒華","徐志榮","張育美","陳瑩","王婉諭","賴惠員","楊曜","莊競程"],"page_start":393,"meetingDate":["2023-12-14"],"gazette_id":"1130201","agenda_lcidc_ids":["1130201_00007"],"meet_name":"立法院第10屆第8會期社會福利及衛生環境委員會第15次全體委員會議紀錄","content":"邀請環境部部長、外交部、經濟部、衛生福利部、農業部、內政部、交通部、國家科學及技術委\n員會、財政部、金融監督管理委員會及財團法人國際合作發展基金會就「第二十八屆聯合國氣候\n變遷大會(COP28)返國報告與後續因應情形」進行專題報告，並備質詢","agenda_id":"1130201_00006"}},"transcript":{"id":"149021","pyannote":{"name":"ronny","tool":"pyannote","data":{"url":"https://ivod.ly.gov.tw/Play/Clip/1M/149021","tool":"pyannote","id":"149021-pyannote"},"job_id":"yI3nyTcITZrqLr9q","queued_at":"2024-06-02 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{\"word\": \"改\", \"start\": 374.921, \"end\": 375.102, \"score\": 0.997}, {\"word\": \"善\", \"start\": 375.102, \"end\": 375.482, \"score\": 0.984}, {\"word\": \"好\", \"start\": 375.482, \"end\": 375.502, \"score\": 0.004}]}, {\"start\": 376.226, \"end\": 403.442, \"text\": \"那我覺得這部分很重要這當然也代表是國內的政策其實跟國際上面是很清楚的接軌的並沒有所謂違逆國際的趨勢跟方向這是第一點下面一個問題那這次次長我要問其實在這次會議裡我們發現到有很多包括歐洲的國家因為歐洲戰爭的原因他們其實都花了很多力氣在提升能源效率的部分那當然台灣看起來因為我們能源價格變動沒有人家高所以我想問次長下面一個問題\", \"words\": [{\"word\": \"那\", \"start\": 376.226, \"end\": 376.406, \"score\": 0.935}, {\"word\": \"我\", \"start\": 376.406, \"end\": 376.626, \"score\": 0.808}, {\"word\": \"覺\"}, {\"word\": \"得\", \"start\": 376.626, \"end\": 376.766, \"score\": 0.855}, {\"word\": \"這\"}, {\"word\": \"部\", \"start\": 376.766, \"end\": 376.866, \"score\": 0.999}, {\"word\": \"分\", \"start\": 376.866, \"end\": 376.946, \"score\": 0.965}, {\"word\": \"很\", \"start\": 376.946, \"end\": 377.127, \"score\": 0.998}, {\"word\": \"重\", \"start\": 377.127, \"end\": 377.307, 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00:00:37,046\n請薛部長然後李次長還有那個曾次長尤其行政單位官員們謝謝部長好兩位次長好那我想其實這一次COP28其實經歷了兩個禮拜的相關的會議每年都是\n\n2\n00:00:38,661 --> 00:01:00,071\n這個國際上面候變遷討論最重要的盛世之一那這兩個禮拜裡面當然有很多重要的討論跟波折那一直到昨天應該是到甚至到昨天的深夜最後的這個共識其實才做了這個產出那我想大家其實都盯到最後一刻\n\n3\n00:01:00,971 --> 00:01:19,341\n那我想先問一個事情其實在這個第一週的這個談判裡面在第一週的會議進行的時間裡面有我覺得台灣的媒體做了蠻多的報導的一個事情就是這個好像有二十幾個國家那他們發出了這個所謂2050會要三倍\n\n4\n00:01:22,882 --> 00:01:49,470\n核能的這個倡議就部長就您了解這個事情是最後我們這個大會的結論跟共識嗎沒有事實上沒有得到共識因為其他有共識的都將近200個國家那剛剛洪委員提到才22個而且那22個大部分都是本身在這個核能發展以及產業方面\n\n5\n00:01:50,451 --> 00:02:06,692\n實際上也算相當成熟的他們使用很容易也很高所以我們剛剛看到其實那幾天的媒體出來後我們有幾位在黨的總統候選這非常非常興奮甚至直接把它寫成說這是COP28的共識我想這並不是一個事實那下面我想這個下一張\n\n6\n00:02:08,194 --> 00:02:23,334\n那這個我想請問曾市長其實我想大家其實已經看到甚至現在有人把它定名為叫做這個UAE共識阿聯酋共識在阿聯酋共識裡面其實我們看到在這一次的談判裡面最清楚跟最具體的一個\n\n7\n00:02:24,756 --> 00:02:46,697\n一個條文其實就是在於這邊標紅字2030年以前要將再生能源裝置量提升三倍以及每年平均的能源效率提升兩倍這部分這一段時間因為這個想法的提出來並不是在只是在最後包括在一開始會議的時候就提出來我想這部分經部有沒有做一些相關的幕僚作業跟討論\n\n8\n00:02:49,226 --> 00:03:09,494\n謝謝委員其實除了具體承諾跟能源有關大概這兩點是最重要的結論除了這個以外其實一些具體的做法包括提供讓供應鏈更有韌性等等很多還有包括協助開發中國家這些相關的工作其實我們都有把它整理起來\n\n9\n00:03:10,254 --> 00:03:29,034\n我簡單講兩個事情第一個有關於再生能源的部分其實除了第一個就是我們把現在成熟的再生能源能夠加速也讓它加量除了這個以外我們要更多元化的來發展再生能源這個是台灣現在政策正在推動的工作\n\n10\n00:03:29,714 --> 00:03:45,409\n我們也希望能夠把再生能源的裝置能夠盡快的再提升除此之外有關於委員提到能效的部分能效的部分大概簡單來講就是希望全球的年均能源效率改善目標能夠從2%\n\n11\n00:03:47,071 --> 00:04:16,290\n提升到4%是好那他的計算方法是用初級能源的供給市長對不起因為時間有限好那我簡單講對委員從2016年到2022年臺灣的初級能源的能源密集度總共憑年均改善了4.2%是其實是他提了4.4%過去這幾年我們其實改善的量是比他要求的4%再多一點\n\n12\n00:04:16,530 --> 00:04:44,383\n好次長那我就更具體問下面一個問題那很多媒體都關注在這一次COP28的結論之後像這個最重要的再生能源三倍能效兩倍我們能不能夠針對這個結論來再做臺灣國內政策的加碼的承諾也就是順應這個國際上面再生能源三倍跟能效兩倍作為我們2030年再生能源跟能效的目標這部分我們有沒有辦法順應這個再做加碼的承諾\n\n13\n00:04:45,483 --> 00:05:09,491\n跟委員報告如果它基礎年是用2022年來做我們到2030年平均來講說我們的光電目前規劃的量是有會能夠達到三倍風電的量也應該會有2022年的時候的裝置容量的三倍所以這個都可以這個在裝置容量的增加上是可以達成的所以再增的三倍是可以承諾的\n\n14\n00:05:10,251 --> 00:05:26,048\n是會達成目標的依照我們現在的規劃那除了這個以外第二個部分有關能源效率就是初級能源供給的密集度這一塊我們去年年均的改善是4.2%今年預估起來可能會有機會超過6%\n\n15\n00:05:29,651 --> 00:05:55,790\n就是供給量我們是使用量是下降了GDP是成長了所以我們改善的改善率是還不錯所以我們也希望2030年這個改善4%的目標能夠達成好所以我跟你說現在我們台灣的政府也再次承諾了順應的目前這個COP28的這個共識的結論再生能源三倍跟能效兩倍相較於2022年這件事情我們是可以承諾的這沒問題吧對不對\n\n16\n00:05:57,171 --> 00:06:15,502\n對我跟委員報告我剛才的說明裡面是要講過去這幾年其實我們就順著這個軌跡在做比如說我們就在這個軌跡上面對我們其實就是在這個方向上面所以這個承諾是我們可以承諾的事情我們希望能夠這個軌跡能夠繼續順利的往上走就是朝著這一個比例繼續改善好\n\n17\n00:06:16,226 --> 00:06:43,442\n那我覺得這部分很重要這當然也代表是國內的政策其實跟國際上面是很清楚的接軌的並沒有所謂違逆國際的趨勢跟方向這是第一點下面一個問題那這次次長我要問其實在這次會議裡我們發現到有很多包括歐洲的國家因為歐洲戰爭的原因他們其實都花了很多力氣在提升能源效率的部分那當然台灣看起來因為我們能源價格變動沒有人家高所以我想問次長下面一個問題\n\n18\n00:06:45,413 --> 00:06:55,140\n我自己在想說現在經濟部有沒有對於各國尤其是這樣提升能源效率這些新的做法有密切的高度的掌握\n\n19\n00:06:56,735 --> 00:07:22,667\n這個部分委員的建議就是我們來做前瞻的那個技術的追蹤平台這個其實我們平常都在追啦但是沒有把它集合起來成為一個平台提供給大家參考我們來跟能源署我來要求能源署我們一起來做這個相關的事長這個問題其實是我想要接下下一個問題但我現在想請學部長好下面部長我要問你你覺得我們達成2050淨零排放的目標有辦法只靠自己嗎\n\n20\n00:07:24,741 --> 00:07:34,493\n你覺得可以嗎只靠自己需要國內跨部會跟產業我說不是環境部我說台灣自己台灣自己可以只靠自己達成嗎\n\n21\n00:07:36,028 --> 00:08:01,189\n應該要跟大家合作啦需要跟大家合作對不對部長我這次其實去很明顯知道我們的淨零排放的這一件事情幾乎不可能只靠臺灣自己我們其實靠大量的國際合作下一張所以部長你覺得我們現在臺灣我們正在進行包括氣候跟淨零相關的國際合作足夠我們達成剛才說2050的排放這個淨零排放的這樣子的工作嗎我們現在的國際合作夠了嗎\n\n22\n00:08:02,287 --> 00:08:11,606\n我們還要繼續擴大國際的合作需要擴大嘛部長說了那再往下我想到後面因為我時間上面有一些有限到最後一張\n\n23\n00:08:13,435 --> 00:08:36,129\n前面一張部長我自己有個具體的建議我認為就台灣我們就氣候或者是近鄰來說我們的國際合作應該更有戰略性我提一件事情其實我們有很多的友邦國家在太平洋他們是太平洋的島國其實都是每一次在氣候談判裡面非常重要也非常受阻力的所謂小島國家的聯盟\n\n24\n00:08:36,849 --> 00:09:00,789\n可是我們對於這些我自己也觀察我們恐怕是可以跟他們建立一個更清楚的甚至更具戰略意義的這個合作的關係甚至我們也可以幫他們發聲他們每次在這個氣候談判裡面都是大家最注目的一個聲音那也是我們最好合作的對象但我說實話我覺得我們現在對他們國內狀況的了解跟掌握我自己這次去完以後我覺得還不夠高\n\n25\n00:09:02,091 --> 00:09:09,551\n所以我覺得我們需要跟這系統性的戰略合作這是我想提的第一點的建議第二點就是剛剛跟次長在講到的問題\n\n26\n00:09:11,192 --> 00:09:36,515\n我們沒有辦法靠自己的力量就完成淨零轉型我們需要很多來自國際的新的技術前瞻的技術現在到底發展到最前緣是哪幾個國家哪幾個企業哪幾個公司哪幾個社群裡面已經有最新的Demo我們需要知道這件事情所以我覺得我們應該在這個國際合作的概念之下有一個最新的這個前瞻技術的一個追蹤的平臺這部分可能是經濟部其實應該可以扮演很多的角色\n\n27\n00:09:37,116 --> 00:09:57,745\n可能不只是能效包括再生能源包括氫能所有只要跟新的技術有關我們都不排斥我們都必須密切追蹤甚至我都覺得對於一些新的核能技術我們也該追蹤這我都同意再來一個事情是我們的發展的機制包括這些一些規範性的機制尤其像我知道現在我們很多產業都在討論CBAM都在討論歐盟的碳邊際調整\n\n28\n00:10:01,286 --> 00:10:13,283\n可是這只是大家現在只關注這個階段阿那請問下個階段呢下個階段其實也在討論中阿可是我想就環境部來說你們對歐盟可能下一個階段的CBAN目前掌握度到什麼程度\n\n29\n00:10:14,444 --> 00:10:37,800\n事實上不只歐盟包括我們跟美國跟新加坡、日本等國家也都有在接觸另外我針對剛剛洪文特別講到的中間這個部分事實上理事長或許也可以講今年7月份外交部就已經跟四個太平洋友邦部長我這邊就直接對不起因為時間有限我自己覺得我們其實應該在部層或國發會的部分直接應該來帶領一個\n\n30\n00:10:42,763 --> 00:10:55,934\n國際合作的專案這國際合作專案應該包括了前瞻技術包括小島國家的合作也包括一些新的治理機制的未來前瞻的進一步的發展我覺得這些事情可能拼湊起來我們對於\n\n31\n00:10:58,296 --> 00:11:12,661\n臺灣在做淨零跟氣候變遷的問題上面跟國際上面的連結我覺得我們需要一個這個事情最後我要提醒一點我們都知道我們在UN裡面的參與是相對比較困難的我們對聯合國參與比較困難我覺得我們也需要發展更多在UN以外的\n\n32\n00:11:13,341 --> 00:11:39,695\n國際合作的參與的平台這部分我覺得是環境部現在還相對比較欠缺的部分我這邊其實有列了一些其實是在聯合國以外的參與機制我希望可以請部長再帶回去我們來討論哪些部分其實我們應該積極的再去參與而不只是說因為我們不是E1的締約國所以我們在這裡面談判會相對受限的問題其實在其他地方我們可以很好的發揮以上這個建議部長可不可以把這些建議帶到行政院或帶到國發會裡面跟\n\n33\n00:11:41,616 --> 00:11:44,198\n同時與財政部委員會委員會委員會委員會委員會委員會委員會委員會委員會委員會委員會\n\n34\n00:12:10,204 --> 00:12:10,968\n謝宏維下一位請蘇喬惠蘇委員\n\n","tsv":"start\tend\ttext\n10798\t37046\t請薛部長然後李次長還有那個曾次長尤其行政單位官員們謝謝部長好兩位次長好那我想其實這一次COP28其實經歷了兩個禮拜的相關的會議每年都是\n38661\t60071\t這個國際上面候變遷討論最重要的盛世之一那這兩個禮拜裡面當然有很多重要的討論跟波折那一直到昨天應該是到甚至到昨天的深夜最後的這個共識其實才做了這個產出那我想大家其實都盯到最後一刻\n60971\t79341\t那我想先問一個事情其實在這個第一週的這個談判裡面在第一週的會議進行的時間裡面有我覺得台灣的媒體做了蠻多的報導的一個事情就是這個好像有二十幾個國家那他們發出了這個所謂2050會要三倍\n82882\t109470\t核能的這個倡議就部長就您了解這個事情是最後我們這個大會的結論跟共識嗎沒有事實上沒有得到共識因為其他有共識的都將近200個國家那剛剛洪委員提到才22個而且那22個大部分都是本身在這個核能發展以及產業方面\n110451\t126692\t實際上也算相當成熟的他們使用很容易也很高所以我們剛剛看到其實那幾天的媒體出來後我們有幾位在黨的總統候選這非常非常興奮甚至直接把它寫成說這是COP28的共識我想這並不是一個事實那下面我想這個下一張\n128194\t143334\t那這個我想請問曾市長其實我想大家其實已經看到甚至現在有人把它定名為叫做這個UAE共識阿聯酋共識在阿聯酋共識裡面其實我們看到在這一次的談判裡面最清楚跟最具體的一個\n144756\t166697\t一個條文其實就是在於這邊標紅字2030年以前要將再生能源裝置量提升三倍以及每年平均的能源效率提升兩倍這部分這一段時間因為這個想法的提出來並不是在只是在最後包括在一開始會議的時候就提出來我想這部分經部有沒有做一些相關的幕僚作業跟討論\n169226\t189494\t謝謝委員其實除了具體承諾跟能源有關大概這兩點是最重要的結論除了這個以外其實一些具體的做法包括提供讓供應鏈更有韌性等等很多還有包括協助開發中國家這些相關的工作其實我們都有把它整理起來\n190254\t209034\t我簡單講兩個事情第一個有關於再生能源的部分其實除了第一個就是我們把現在成熟的再生能源能夠加速也讓它加量除了這個以外我們要更多元化的來發展再生能源這個是台灣現在政策正在推動的工作\n209714\t225409\t我們也希望能夠把再生能源的裝置能夠盡快的再提升除此之外有關於委員提到能效的部分能效的部分大概簡單來講就是希望全球的年均能源效率改善目標能夠從2%\n227071\t256290\t提升到4%是好那他的計算方法是用初級能源的供給市長對不起因為時間有限好那我簡單講對委員從2016年到2022年臺灣的初級能源的能源密集度總共憑年均改善了4.2%是其實是他提了4.4%過去這幾年我們其實改善的量是比他要求的4%再多一點\n256530\t284383\t好次長那我就更具體問下面一個問題那很多媒體都關注在這一次COP28的結論之後像這個最重要的再生能源三倍能效兩倍我們能不能夠針對這個結論來再做臺灣國內政策的加碼的承諾也就是順應這個國際上面再生能源三倍跟能效兩倍作為我們2030年再生能源跟能效的目標這部分我們有沒有辦法順應這個再做加碼的承諾\n285483\t309491\t跟委員報告如果它基礎年是用2022年來做我們到2030年平均來講說我們的光電目前規劃的量是有會能夠達到三倍風電的量也應該會有2022年的時候的裝置容量的三倍所以這個都可以這個在裝置容量的增加上是可以達成的所以再增的三倍是可以承諾的\n310251\t326048\t是會達成目標的依照我們現在的規劃那除了這個以外第二個部分有關能源效率就是初級能源供給的密集度這一塊我們去年年均的改善是4.2%今年預估起來可能會有機會超過6%\n329651\t355790\t就是供給量我們是使用量是下降了GDP是成長了所以我們改善的改善率是還不錯所以我們也希望2030年這個改善4%的目標能夠達成好所以我跟你說現在我們台灣的政府也再次承諾了順應的目前這個COP28的這個共識的結論再生能源三倍跟能效兩倍相較於2022年這件事情我們是可以承諾的這沒問題吧對不對\n357171\t375502\t對我跟委員報告我剛才的說明裡面是要講過去這幾年其實我們就順著這個軌跡在做比如說我們就在這個軌跡上面對我們其實就是在這個方向上面所以這個承諾是我們可以承諾的事情我們希望能夠這個軌跡能夠繼續順利的往上走就是朝著這一個比例繼續改善好\n376226\t403442\t那我覺得這部分很重要這當然也代表是國內的政策其實跟國際上面是很清楚的接軌的並沒有所謂違逆國際的趨勢跟方向這是第一點下面一個問題那這次次長我要問其實在這次會議裡我們發現到有很多包括歐洲的國家因為歐洲戰爭的原因他們其實都花了很多力氣在提升能源效率的部分那當然台灣看起來因為我們能源價格變動沒有人家高所以我想問次長下面一個問題\n405413\t415140\t我自己在想說現在經濟部有沒有對於各國尤其是這樣提升能源效率這些新的做法有密切的高度的掌握\n416735\t442667\t這個部分委員的建議就是我們來做前瞻的那個技術的追蹤平台這個其實我們平常都在追啦但是沒有把它集合起來成為一個平台提供給大家參考我們來跟能源署我來要求能源署我們一起來做這個相關的事長這個問題其實是我想要接下下一個問題但我現在想請學部長好下面部長我要問你你覺得我們達成2050淨零排放的目標有辦法只靠自己嗎\n444741\t454493\t你覺得可以嗎只靠自己需要國內跨部會跟產業我說不是環境部我說台灣自己台灣自己可以只靠自己達成嗎\n456028\t481189\t應該要跟大家合作啦需要跟大家合作對不對部長我這次其實去很明顯知道我們的淨零排放的這一件事情幾乎不可能只靠臺灣自己我們其實靠大量的國際合作下一張所以部長你覺得我們現在臺灣我們正在進行包括氣候跟淨零相關的國際合作足夠我們達成剛才說2050的排放這個淨零排放的這樣子的工作嗎我們現在的國際合作夠了嗎\n482287\t491606\t我們還要繼續擴大國際的合作需要擴大嘛部長說了那再往下我想到後面因為我時間上面有一些有限到最後一張\n493435\t516129\t前面一張部長我自己有個具體的建議我認為就台灣我們就氣候或者是近鄰來說我們的國際合作應該更有戰略性我提一件事情其實我們有很多的友邦國家在太平洋他們是太平洋的島國其實都是每一次在氣候談判裡面非常重要也非常受阻力的所謂小島國家的聯盟\n516849\t540789\t可是我們對於這些我自己也觀察我們恐怕是可以跟他們建立一個更清楚的甚至更具戰略意義的這個合作的關係甚至我們也可以幫他們發聲他們每次在這個氣候談判裡面都是大家最注目的一個聲音那也是我們最好合作的對象但我說實話我覺得我們現在對他們國內狀況的了解跟掌握我自己這次去完以後我覺得還不夠高\n542091\t549551\t所以我覺得我們需要跟這系統性的戰略合作這是我想提的第一點的建議第二點就是剛剛跟次長在講到的問題\n551192\t576515\t我們沒有辦法靠自己的力量就完成淨零轉型我們需要很多來自國際的新的技術前瞻的技術現在到底發展到最前緣是哪幾個國家哪幾個企業哪幾個公司哪幾個社群裡面已經有最新的Demo我們需要知道這件事情所以我覺得我們應該在這個國際合作的概念之下有一個最新的這個前瞻技術的一個追蹤的平臺這部分可能是經濟部其實應該可以扮演很多的角色\n577116\t597745\t可能不只是能效包括再生能源包括氫能所有只要跟新的技術有關我們都不排斥我們都必須密切追蹤甚至我都覺得對於一些新的核能技術我們也該追蹤這我都同意再來一個事情是我們的發展的機制包括這些一些規範性的機制尤其像我知道現在我們很多產業都在討論CBAM都在討論歐盟的碳邊際調整\n601286\t613283\t可是這只是大家現在只關注這個階段阿那請問下個階段呢下個階段其實也在討論中阿可是我想就環境部來說你們對歐盟可能下一個階段的CBAN目前掌握度到什麼程度\n614444\t637800\t事實上不只歐盟包括我們跟美國跟新加坡、日本等國家也都有在接觸另外我針對剛剛洪文特別講到的中間這個部分事實上理事長或許也可以講今年7月份外交部就已經跟四個太平洋友邦部長我這邊就直接對不起因為時間有限我自己覺得我們其實應該在部層或國發會的部分直接應該來帶領一個\n642763\t655934\t國際合作的專案這國際合作專案應該包括了前瞻技術包括小島國家的合作也包括一些新的治理機制的未來前瞻的進一步的發展我覺得這些事情可能拼湊起來我們對於\n658296\t672661\t臺灣在做淨零跟氣候變遷的問題上面跟國際上面的連結我覺得我們需要一個這個事情最後我要提醒一點我們都知道我們在UN裡面的參與是相對比較困難的我們對聯合國參與比較困難我覺得我們也需要發展更多在UN以外的\n673341\t699695\t國際合作的參與的平台這部分我覺得是環境部現在還相對比較欠缺的部分我這邊其實有列了一些其實是在聯合國以外的參與機制我希望可以請部長再帶回去我們來討論哪些部分其實我們應該積極的再去參與而不只是說因為我們不是E1的締約國所以我們在這裡面談判會相對受限的問題其實在其他地方我們可以很好的發揮以上這個建議部長可不可以把這些建議帶到行政院或帶到國發會裡面跟\n701616\t704198\t同時與財政部委員會委員會委員會委員會委員會委員會委員會委員會委員會委員會委員會\n730204\t730968\t謝宏維 下一位請蘇喬惠 蘇委員\n","txt":"請薛部長然後李次長還有那個曾次長尤其行政單位官員們謝謝部長好兩位次長好那我想其實這一次COP28其實經歷了兩個禮拜的相關的會議每年都是\n這個國際上面候變遷討論最重要的盛世之一那這兩個禮拜裡面當然有很多重要的討論跟波折那一直到昨天應該是到甚至到昨天的深夜最後的這個共識其實才做了這個產出那我想大家其實都盯到最後一刻\n那我想先問一個事情其實在這個第一週的這個談判裡面在第一週的會議進行的時間裡面有我覺得台灣的媒體做了蠻多的報導的一個事情就是這個好像有二十幾個國家那他們發出了這個所謂2050會要三倍\n核能的這個倡議就部長就您了解這個事情是最後我們這個大會的結論跟共識嗎沒有事實上沒有得到共識因為其他有共識的都將近200個國家那剛剛洪委員提到才22個而且那22個大部分都是本身在這個核能發展以及產業方面\n實際上也算相當成熟的他們使用很容易也很高所以我們剛剛看到其實那幾天的媒體出來後我們有幾位在黨的總統候選這非常非常興奮甚至直接把它寫成說這是COP28的共識我想這並不是一個事實那下面我想這個下一張\n那這個我想請問曾市長其實我想大家其實已經看到甚至現在有人把它定名為叫做這個UAE共識阿聯酋共識在阿聯酋共識裡面其實我們看到在這一次的談判裡面最清楚跟最具體的一個\n一個條文其實就是在於這邊標紅字2030年以前要將再生能源裝置量提升三倍以及每年平均的能源效率提升兩倍這部分這一段時間因為這個想法的提出來並不是在只是在最後包括在一開始會議的時候就提出來我想這部分經部有沒有做一些相關的幕僚作業跟討論\n謝謝委員其實除了具體承諾跟能源有關大概這兩點是最重要的結論除了這個以外其實一些具體的做法包括提供讓供應鏈更有韌性等等很多還有包括協助開發中國家這些相關的工作其實我們都有把它整理起來\n我簡單講兩個事情第一個有關於再生能源的部分其實除了第一個就是我們把現在成熟的再生能源能夠加速也讓它加量除了這個以外我們要更多元化的來發展再生能源這個是台灣現在政策正在推動的工作\n我們也希望能夠把再生能源的裝置能夠盡快的再提升除此之外有關於委員提到能效的部分能效的部分大概簡單來講就是希望全球的年均能源效率改善目標能夠從2%\n提升到4%是好那他的計算方法是用初級能源的供給市長對不起因為時間有限好那我簡單講對委員從2016年到2022年臺灣的初級能源的能源密集度總共憑年均改善了4.2%是其實是他提了4.4%過去這幾年我們其實改善的量是比他要求的4%再多一點\n好次長那我就更具體問下面一個問題那很多媒體都關注在這一次COP28的結論之後像這個最重要的再生能源三倍能效兩倍我們能不能夠針對這個結論來再做臺灣國內政策的加碼的承諾也就是順應這個國際上面再生能源三倍跟能效兩倍作為我們2030年再生能源跟能效的目標這部分我們有沒有辦法順應這個再做加碼的承諾\n跟委員報告如果它基礎年是用2022年來做我們到2030年平均來講說我們的光電目前規劃的量是有會能夠達到三倍風電的量也應該會有2022年的時候的裝置容量的三倍所以這個都可以這個在裝置容量的增加上是可以達成的所以再增的三倍是可以承諾的\n是會達成目標的依照我們現在的規劃那除了這個以外第二個部分有關能源效率就是初級能源供給的密集度這一塊我們去年年均的改善是4.2%今年預估起來可能會有機會超過6%\n就是供給量我們是使用量是下降了GDP是成長了所以我們改善的改善率是還不錯所以我們也希望2030年這個改善4%的目標能夠達成好所以我跟你說現在我們台灣的政府也再次承諾了順應的目前這個COP28的這個共識的結論再生能源三倍跟能效兩倍相較於2022年這件事情我們是可以承諾的這沒問題吧對不對\n對我跟委員報告我剛才的說明裡面是要講過去這幾年其實我們就順著這個軌跡在做比如說我們就在這個軌跡上面對我們其實就是在這個方向上面所以這個承諾是我們可以承諾的事情我們希望能夠這個軌跡能夠繼續順利的往上走就是朝著這一個比例繼續改善好\n那我覺得這部分很重要這當然也代表是國內的政策其實跟國際上面是很清楚的接軌的並沒有所謂違逆國際的趨勢跟方向這是第一點下面一個問題那這次次長我要問其實在這次會議裡我們發現到有很多包括歐洲的國家因為歐洲戰爭的原因他們其實都花了很多力氣在提升能源效率的部分那當然台灣看起來因為我們能源價格變動沒有人家高所以我想問次長下面一個問題\n我自己在想說現在經濟部有沒有對於各國尤其是這樣提升能源效率這些新的做法有密切的高度的掌握\n這個部分委員的建議就是我們來做前瞻的那個技術的追蹤平台這個其實我們平常都在追啦但是沒有把它集合起來成為一個平台提供給大家參考我們來跟能源署我來要求能源署我們一起來做這個相關的事長這個問題其實是我想要接下下一個問題但我現在想請學部長好下面部長我要問你你覺得我們達成2050淨零排放的目標有辦法只靠自己嗎\n你覺得可以嗎只靠自己需要國內跨部會跟產業我說不是環境部我說台灣自己台灣自己可以只靠自己達成嗎\n應該要跟大家合作啦需要跟大家合作對不對部長我這次其實去很明顯知道我們的淨零排放的這一件事情幾乎不可能只靠臺灣自己我們其實靠大量的國際合作下一張所以部長你覺得我們現在臺灣我們正在進行包括氣候跟淨零相關的國際合作足夠我們達成剛才說2050的排放這個淨零排放的這樣子的工作嗎我們現在的國際合作夠了嗎\n我們還要繼續擴大國際的合作需要擴大嘛部長說了那再往下我想到後面因為我時間上面有一些有限到最後一張\n前面一張部長我自己有個具體的建議我認為就台灣我們就氣候或者是近鄰來說我們的國際合作應該更有戰略性我提一件事情其實我們有很多的友邦國家在太平洋他們是太平洋的島國其實都是每一次在氣候談判裡面非常重要也非常受阻力的所謂小島國家的聯盟\n可是我們對於這些我自己也觀察我們恐怕是可以跟他們建立一個更清楚的甚至更具戰略意義的這個合作的關係甚至我們也可以幫他們發聲他們每次在這個氣候談判裡面都是大家最注目的一個聲音那也是我們最好合作的對象但我說實話我覺得我們現在對他們國內狀況的了解跟掌握我自己這次去完以後我覺得還不夠高\n所以我覺得我們需要跟這系統性的戰略合作這是我想提的第一點的建議第二點就是剛剛跟次長在講到的問題\n我們沒有辦法靠自己的力量就完成淨零轉型我們需要很多來自國際的新的技術前瞻的技術現在到底發展到最前緣是哪幾個國家哪幾個企業哪幾個公司哪幾個社群裡面已經有最新的Demo我們需要知道這件事情所以我覺得我們應該在這個國際合作的概念之下有一個最新的這個前瞻技術的一個追蹤的平臺這部分可能是經濟部其實應該可以扮演很多的角色\n可能不只是能效包括再生能源包括氫能所有只要跟新的技術有關我們都不排斥我們都必須密切追蹤甚至我都覺得對於一些新的核能技術我們也該追蹤這我都同意再來一個事情是我們的發展的機制包括這些一些規範性的機制尤其像我知道現在我們很多產業都在討論CBAM都在討論歐盟的碳邊際調整\n可是這只是大家現在只關注這個階段阿那請問下個階段呢下個階段其實也在討論中阿可是我想就環境部來說你們對歐盟可能下一個階段的CBAN目前掌握度到什麼程度\n事實上不只歐盟包括我們跟美國跟新加坡、日本等國家也都有在接觸另外我針對剛剛洪文特別講到的中間這個部分事實上理事長或許也可以講今年7月份外交部就已經跟四個太平洋友邦部長我這邊就直接對不起因為時間有限我自己覺得我們其實應該在部層或國發會的部分直接應該來帶領一個\n國際合作的專案這國際合作專案應該包括了前瞻技術包括小島國家的合作也包括一些新的治理機制的未來前瞻的進一步的發展我覺得這些事情可能拼湊起來我們對於\n臺灣在做淨零跟氣候變遷的問題上面跟國際上面的連結我覺得我們需要一個這個事情最後我要提醒一點我們都知道我們在UN裡面的參與是相對比較困難的我們對聯合國參與比較困難我覺得我們也需要發展更多在UN以外的\n國際合作的參與的平台這部分我覺得是環境部現在還相對比較欠缺的部分我這邊其實有列了一些其實是在聯合國以外的參與機制我希望可以請部長再帶回去我們來討論哪些部分其實我們應該積極的再去參與而不只是說因為我們不是E1的締約國所以我們在這裡面談判會相對受限的問題其實在其他地方我們可以很好的發揮以上這個建議部長可不可以把這些建議帶到行政院或帶到國發會裡面跟\n同時與財政部委員會委員會委員會委員會委員會委員會委員會委員會委員會委員會委員會\n謝宏維 下一位請蘇喬惠 蘇委員\n","vtt":"WEBVTT\n\n00:10.798 --> 00:37.046\n請薛部長然後李次長還有那個曾次長尤其行政單位官員們謝謝部長好兩位次長好那我想其實這一次COP28其實經歷了兩個禮拜的相關的會議每年都是\n\n00:38.661 --> 01:00.071\n這個國際上面候變遷討論最重要的盛世之一那這兩個禮拜裡面當然有很多重要的討論跟波折那一直到昨天應該是到甚至到昨天的深夜最後的這個共識其實才做了這個產出那我想大家其實都盯到最後一刻\n\n01:00.971 --> 01:19.341\n那我想先問一個事情其實在這個第一週的這個談判裡面在第一週的會議進行的時間裡面有我覺得台灣的媒體做了蠻多的報導的一個事情就是這個好像有二十幾個國家那他們發出了這個所謂2050會要三倍\n\n01:22.882 --> 01:49.470\n核能的這個倡議就部長就您了解這個事情是最後我們這個大會的結論跟共識嗎沒有事實上沒有得到共識因為其他有共識的都將近200個國家那剛剛洪委員提到才22個而且那22個大部分都是本身在這個核能發展以及產業方面\n\n01:50.451 --> 02:06.692\n實際上也算相當成熟的他們使用很容易也很高所以我們剛剛看到其實那幾天的媒體出來後我們有幾位在黨的總統候選這非常非常興奮甚至直接把它寫成說這是COP28的共識我想這並不是一個事實那下面我想這個下一張\n\n02:08.194 --> 02:23.334\n那這個我想請問曾市長其實我想大家其實已經看到甚至現在有人把它定名為叫做這個UAE共識阿聯酋共識在阿聯酋共識裡面其實我們看到在這一次的談判裡面最清楚跟最具體的一個\n\n02:24.756 --> 02:46.697\n一個條文其實就是在於這邊標紅字2030年以前要將再生能源裝置量提升三倍以及每年平均的能源效率提升兩倍這部分這一段時間因為這個想法的提出來並不是在只是在最後包括在一開始會議的時候就提出來我想這部分經部有沒有做一些相關的幕僚作業跟討論\n\n02:49.226 --> 03:09.494\n謝謝委員其實除了具體承諾跟能源有關大概這兩點是最重要的結論除了這個以外其實一些具體的做法包括提供讓供應鏈更有韌性等等很多還有包括協助開發中國家這些相關的工作其實我們都有把它整理起來\n\n03:10.254 --> 03:29.034\n我簡單講兩個事情第一個有關於再生能源的部分其實除了第一個就是我們把現在成熟的再生能源能夠加速也讓它加量除了這個以外我們要更多元化的來發展再生能源這個是台灣現在政策正在推動的工作\n\n03:29.714 --> 03:45.409\n我們也希望能夠把再生能源的裝置能夠盡快的再提升除此之外有關於委員提到能效的部分能效的部分大概簡單來講就是希望全球的年均能源效率改善目標能夠從2%\n\n03:47.071 --> 04:16.290\n提升到4%是好那他的計算方法是用初級能源的供給市長對不起因為時間有限好那我簡單講對委員從2016年到2022年臺灣的初級能源的能源密集度總共憑年均改善了4.2%是其實是他提了4.4%過去這幾年我們其實改善的量是比他要求的4%再多一點\n\n04:16.530 --> 04:44.383\n好次長那我就更具體問下面一個問題那很多媒體都關注在這一次COP28的結論之後像這個最重要的再生能源三倍能效兩倍我們能不能夠針對這個結論來再做臺灣國內政策的加碼的承諾也就是順應這個國際上面再生能源三倍跟能效兩倍作為我們2030年再生能源跟能效的目標這部分我們有沒有辦法順應這個再做加碼的承諾\n\n04:45.483 --> 05:09.491\n跟委員報告如果它基礎年是用2022年來做我們到2030年平均來講說我們的光電目前規劃的量是有會能夠達到三倍風電的量也應該會有2022年的時候的裝置容量的三倍所以這個都可以這個在裝置容量的增加上是可以達成的所以再增的三倍是可以承諾的\n\n05:10.251 --> 05:26.048\n是會達成目標的依照我們現在的規劃那除了這個以外第二個部分有關能源效率就是初級能源供給的密集度這一塊我們去年年均的改善是4.2%今年預估起來可能會有機會超過6%\n\n05:29.651 --> 05:55.790\n就是供給量我們是使用量是下降了GDP是成長了所以我們改善的改善率是還不錯所以我們也希望2030年這個改善4%的目標能夠達成好所以我跟你說現在我們台灣的政府也再次承諾了順應的目前這個COP28的這個共識的結論再生能源三倍跟能效兩倍相較於2022年這件事情我們是可以承諾的這沒問題吧對不對\n\n05:57.171 --> 06:15.502\n對我跟委員報告我剛才的說明裡面是要講過去這幾年其實我們就順著這個軌跡在做比如說我們就在這個軌跡上面對我們其實就是在這個方向上面所以這個承諾是我們可以承諾的事情我們希望能夠這個軌跡能夠繼續順利的往上走就是朝著這一個比例繼續改善好\n\n06:16.226 --> 06:43.442\n那我覺得這部分很重要這當然也代表是國內的政策其實跟國際上面是很清楚的接軌的並沒有所謂違逆國際的趨勢跟方向這是第一點下面一個問題那這次次長我要問其實在這次會議裡我們發現到有很多包括歐洲的國家因為歐洲戰爭的原因他們其實都花了很多力氣在提升能源效率的部分那當然台灣看起來因為我們能源價格變動沒有人家高所以我想問次長下面一個問題\n\n06:45.413 --> 06:55.140\n我自己在想說現在經濟部有沒有對於各國尤其是這樣提升能源效率這些新的做法有密切的高度的掌握\n\n06:56.735 --> 07:22.667\n這個部分委員的建議就是我們來做前瞻的那個技術的追蹤平台這個其實我們平常都在追啦但是沒有把它集合起來成為一個平台提供給大家參考我們來跟能源署我來要求能源署我們一起來做這個相關的事長這個問題其實是我想要接下下一個問題但我現在想請學部長好下面部長我要問你你覺得我們達成2050淨零排放的目標有辦法只靠自己嗎\n\n07:24.741 --> 07:34.493\n你覺得可以嗎只靠自己需要國內跨部會跟產業我說不是環境部我說台灣自己台灣自己可以只靠自己達成嗎\n\n07:36.028 --> 08:01.189\n應該要跟大家合作啦需要跟大家合作對不對部長我這次其實去很明顯知道我們的淨零排放的這一件事情幾乎不可能只靠臺灣自己我們其實靠大量的國際合作下一張所以部長你覺得我們現在臺灣我們正在進行包括氣候跟淨零相關的國際合作足夠我們達成剛才說2050的排放這個淨零排放的這樣子的工作嗎我們現在的國際合作夠了嗎\n\n08:02.287 --> 08:11.606\n我們還要繼續擴大國際的合作需要擴大嘛部長說了那再往下我想到後面因為我時間上面有一些有限到最後一張\n\n08:13.435 --> 08:36.129\n前面一張部長我自己有個具體的建議我認為就台灣我們就氣候或者是近鄰來說我們的國際合作應該更有戰略性我提一件事情其實我們有很多的友邦國家在太平洋他們是太平洋的島國其實都是每一次在氣候談判裡面非常重要也非常受阻力的所謂小島國家的聯盟\n\n08:36.849 --> 09:00.789\n可是我們對於這些我自己也觀察我們恐怕是可以跟他們建立一個更清楚的甚至更具戰略意義的這個合作的關係甚至我們也可以幫他們發聲他們每次在這個氣候談判裡面都是大家最注目的一個聲音那也是我們最好合作的對象但我說實話我覺得我們現在對他們國內狀況的了解跟掌握我自己這次去完以後我覺得還不夠高\n\n09:02.091 --> 09:09.551\n所以我覺得我們需要跟這系統性的戰略合作這是我想提的第一點的建議第二點就是剛剛跟次長在講到的問題\n\n09:11.192 --> 09:36.515\n我們沒有辦法靠自己的力量就完成淨零轉型我們需要很多來自國際的新的技術前瞻的技術現在到底發展到最前緣是哪幾個國家哪幾個企業哪幾個公司哪幾個社群裡面已經有最新的Demo我們需要知道這件事情所以我覺得我們應該在這個國際合作的概念之下有一個最新的這個前瞻技術的一個追蹤的平臺這部分可能是經濟部其實應該可以扮演很多的角色\n\n09:37.116 --> 09:57.745\n可能不只是能效包括再生能源包括氫能所有只要跟新的技術有關我們都不排斥我們都必須密切追蹤甚至我都覺得對於一些新的核能技術我們也該追蹤這我都同意再來一個事情是我們的發展的機制包括這些一些規範性的機制尤其像我知道現在我們很多產業都在討論CBAM都在討論歐盟的碳邊際調整\n\n10:01.286 --> 10:13.283\n可是這只是大家現在只關注這個階段阿那請問下個階段呢下個階段其實也在討論中阿可是我想就環境部來說你們對歐盟可能下一個階段的CBAN目前掌握度到什麼程度\n\n10:14.444 --> 10:37.800\n事實上不只歐盟包括我們跟美國跟新加坡、日本等國家也都有在接觸另外我針對剛剛洪文特別講到的中間這個部分事實上理事長或許也可以講今年7月份外交部就已經跟四個太平洋友邦部長我這邊就直接對不起因為時間有限我自己覺得我們其實應該在部層或國發會的部分直接應該來帶領一個\n\n10:42.763 --> 10:55.934\n國際合作的專案這國際合作專案應該包括了前瞻技術包括小島國家的合作也包括一些新的治理機制的未來前瞻的進一步的發展我覺得這些事情可能拼湊起來我們對於\n\n10:58.296 --> 11:12.661\n臺灣在做淨零跟氣候變遷的問題上面跟國際上面的連結我覺得我們需要一個這個事情最後我要提醒一點我們都知道我們在UN裡面的參與是相對比較困難的我們對聯合國參與比較困難我覺得我們也需要發展更多在UN以外的\n\n11:13.341 --> 11:39.695\n國際合作的參與的平台這部分我覺得是環境部現在還相對比較欠缺的部分我這邊其實有列了一些其實是在聯合國以外的參與機制我希望可以請部長再帶回去我們來討論哪些部分其實我們應該積極的再去參與而不只是說因為我們不是E1的締約國所以我們在這裡面談判會相對受限的問題其實在其他地方我們可以很好的發揮以上這個建議部長可不可以把這些建議帶到行政院或帶到國發會裡面跟\n\n11:41.616 --> 11:44.198\n同時與財政部委員會委員會委員會委員會委員會委員會委員會委員會委員會委員會委員會\n\n12:10.204 --> 12:10.968\n謝宏維下一位請蘇喬惠蘇委員\n\n","segments":[{"start":10.798,"end":37.046,"text":"請薛部長然後李次長還有那個曾次長尤其行政單位官員們謝謝部長好兩位次長好那我想其實這一次COP28其實經歷了兩個禮拜的相關的會議每年都是"},{"start":38.661,"end":60.071,"text":"這個國際上面候變遷討論最重要的盛世之一那這兩個禮拜裡面當然有很多重要的討論跟波折那一直到昨天應該是到甚至到昨天的深夜最後的這個共識其實才做了這個產出那我想大家其實都盯到最後一刻"},{"start":60.971,"end":79.341,"text":"那我想先問一個事情其實在這個第一週的這個談判裡面在第一週的會議進行的時間裡面有我覺得台灣的媒體做了蠻多的報導的一個事情就是這個好像有二十幾個國家那他們發出了這個所謂2050會要三倍"},{"start":82.882,"end":109.47,"text":"核能的這個倡議就部長就您了解這個事情是最後我們這個大會的結論跟共識嗎沒有事實上沒有得到共識因為其他有共識的都將近200個國家那剛剛洪委員提到才22個而且那22個大部分都是本身在這個核能發展以及產業方面"},{"start":110.451,"end":126.692,"text":"實際上也算相當成熟的他們使用很容易也很高所以我們剛剛看到其實那幾天的媒體出來後我們有幾位在黨的總統候選這非常非常興奮甚至直接把它寫成說這是COP28的共識我想這並不是一個事實那下面我想這個下一張"},{"start":128.194,"end":143.334,"text":"那這個我想請問曾市長其實我想大家其實已經看到甚至現在有人把它定名為叫做這個UAE共識阿聯酋共識在阿聯酋共識裡面其實我們看到在這一次的談判裡面最清楚跟最具體的一個"},{"start":144.756,"end":166.697,"text":"一個條文其實就是在於這邊標紅字2030年以前要將再生能源裝置量提升三倍以及每年平均的能源效率提升兩倍這部分這一段時間因為這個想法的提出來並不是在只是在最後包括在一開始會議的時候就提出來我想這部分經部有沒有做一些相關的幕僚作業跟討論"},{"start":169.226,"end":189.494,"text":"謝謝委員其實除了具體承諾跟能源有關大概這兩點是最重要的結論除了這個以外其實一些具體的做法包括提供讓供應鏈更有韌性等等很多還有包括協助開發中國家這些相關的工作其實我們都有把它整理起來"},{"start":190.254,"end":209.034,"text":"我簡單講兩個事情第一個有關於再生能源的部分其實除了第一個就是我們把現在成熟的再生能源能夠加速也讓它加量除了這個以外我們要更多元化的來發展再生能源這個是台灣現在政策正在推動的工作"},{"start":209.714,"end":225.409,"text":"我們也希望能夠把再生能源的裝置能夠盡快的再提升除此之外有關於委員提到能效的部分能效的部分大概簡單來講就是希望全球的年均能源效率改善目標能夠從2%"},{"start":227.071,"end":256.29,"text":"提升到4%是好那他的計算方法是用初級能源的供給市長對不起因為時間有限好那我簡單講對委員從2016年到2022年臺灣的初級能源的能源密集度總共憑年均改善了4.2%是其實是他提了4.4%過去這幾年我們其實改善的量是比他要求的4%再多一點"},{"start":256.53,"end":284.383,"text":"好次長那我就更具體問下面一個問題那很多媒體都關注在這一次COP28的結論之後像這個最重要的再生能源三倍能效兩倍我們能不能夠針對這個結論來再做臺灣國內政策的加碼的承諾也就是順應這個國際上面再生能源三倍跟能效兩倍作為我們2030年再生能源跟能效的目標這部分我們有沒有辦法順應這個再做加碼的承諾"},{"start":285.483,"end":309.491,"text":"跟委員報告如果它基礎年是用2022年來做我們到2030年平均來講說我們的光電目前規劃的量是有會能夠達到三倍風電的量也應該會有2022年的時候的裝置容量的三倍所以這個都可以這個在裝置容量的增加上是可以達成的所以再增的三倍是可以承諾的"},{"start":310.251,"end":326.048,"text":"是會達成目標的依照我們現在的規劃那除了這個以外第二個部分有關能源效率就是初級能源供給的密集度這一塊我們去年年均的改善是4.2%今年預估起來可能會有機會超過6%"},{"start":329.651,"end":355.79,"text":"就是供給量我們是使用量是下降了GDP是成長了所以我們改善的改善率是還不錯所以我們也希望2030年這個改善4%的目標能夠達成好所以我跟你說現在我們台灣的政府也再次承諾了順應的目前這個COP28的這個共識的結論再生能源三倍跟能效兩倍相較於2022年這件事情我們是可以承諾的這沒問題吧對不對"},{"start":357.171,"end":375.502,"text":"對我跟委員報告我剛才的說明裡面是要講過去這幾年其實我們就順著這個軌跡在做比如說我們就在這個軌跡上面對我們其實就是在這個方向上面所以這個承諾是我們可以承諾的事情我們希望能夠這個軌跡能夠繼續順利的往上走就是朝著這一個比例繼續改善好"},{"start":376.226,"end":403.442,"text":"那我覺得這部分很重要這當然也代表是國內的政策其實跟國際上面是很清楚的接軌的並沒有所謂違逆國際的趨勢跟方向這是第一點下面一個問題那這次次長我要問其實在這次會議裡我們發現到有很多包括歐洲的國家因為歐洲戰爭的原因他們其實都花了很多力氣在提升能源效率的部分那當然台灣看起來因為我們能源價格變動沒有人家高所以我想問次長下面一個問題"},{"start":405.413,"end":415.14,"text":"我自己在想說現在經濟部有沒有對於各國尤其是這樣提升能源效率這些新的做法有密切的高度的掌握"},{"start":416.735,"end":442.667,"text":"這個部分委員的建議就是我們來做前瞻的那個技術的追蹤平台這個其實我們平常都在追啦但是沒有把它集合起來成為一個平台提供給大家參考我們來跟能源署我來要求能源署我們一起來做這個相關的事長這個問題其實是我想要接下下一個問題但我現在想請學部長好下面部長我要問你你覺得我們達成2050淨零排放的目標有辦法只靠自己嗎"},{"start":444.741,"end":454.493,"text":"你覺得可以嗎只靠自己需要國內跨部會跟產業我說不是環境部我說台灣自己台灣自己可以只靠自己達成嗎"},{"start":456.028,"end":481.189,"text":"應該要跟大家合作啦需要跟大家合作對不對部長我這次其實去很明顯知道我們的淨零排放的這一件事情幾乎不可能只靠臺灣自己我們其實靠大量的國際合作下一張所以部長你覺得我們現在臺灣我們正在進行包括氣候跟淨零相關的國際合作足夠我們達成剛才說2050的排放這個淨零排放的這樣子的工作嗎我們現在的國際合作夠了嗎"},{"start":482.287,"end":491.606,"text":"我們還要繼續擴大國際的合作需要擴大嘛部長說了那再往下我想到後面因為我時間上面有一些有限到最後一張"},{"start":493.435,"end":516.129,"text":"前面一張部長我自己有個具體的建議我認為就台灣我們就氣候或者是近鄰來說我們的國際合作應該更有戰略性我提一件事情其實我們有很多的友邦國家在太平洋他們是太平洋的島國其實都是每一次在氣候談判裡面非常重要也非常受阻力的所謂小島國家的聯盟"},{"start":516.849,"end":540.789,"text":"可是我們對於這些我自己也觀察我們恐怕是可以跟他們建立一個更清楚的甚至更具戰略意義的這個合作的關係甚至我們也可以幫他們發聲他們每次在這個氣候談判裡面都是大家最注目的一個聲音那也是我們最好合作的對象但我說實話我覺得我們現在對他們國內狀況的了解跟掌握我自己這次去完以後我覺得還不夠高"},{"start":542.091,"end":549.551,"text":"所以我覺得我們需要跟這系統性的戰略合作這是我想提的第一點的建議第二點就是剛剛跟次長在講到的問題"},{"start":551.192,"end":576.515,"text":"我們沒有辦法靠自己的力量就完成淨零轉型我們需要很多來自國際的新的技術前瞻的技術現在到底發展到最前緣是哪幾個國家哪幾個企業哪幾個公司哪幾個社群裡面已經有最新的Demo我們需要知道這件事情所以我覺得我們應該在這個國際合作的概念之下有一個最新的這個前瞻技術的一個追蹤的平臺這部分可能是經濟部其實應該可以扮演很多的角色"},{"start":577.116,"end":597.745,"text":"可能不只是能效包括再生能源包括氫能所有只要跟新的技術有關我們都不排斥我們都必須密切追蹤甚至我都覺得對於一些新的核能技術我們也該追蹤這我都同意再來一個事情是我們的發展的機制包括這些一些規範性的機制尤其像我知道現在我們很多產業都在討論CBAM都在討論歐盟的碳邊際調整"},{"start":601.286,"end":613.283,"text":"可是這只是大家現在只關注這個階段阿那請問下個階段呢下個階段其實也在討論中阿可是我想就環境部來說你們對歐盟可能下一個階段的CBAN目前掌握度到什麼程度"},{"start":614.444,"end":637.8,"text":"事實上不只歐盟包括我們跟美國跟新加坡、日本等國家也都有在接觸另外我針對剛剛洪文特別講到的中間這個部分事實上理事長或許也可以講今年7月份外交部就已經跟四個太平洋友邦部長我這邊就直接對不起因為時間有限我自己覺得我們其實應該在部層或國發會的部分直接應該來帶領一個"},{"start":642.763,"end":655.934,"text":"國際合作的專案這國際合作專案應該包括了前瞻技術包括小島國家的合作也包括一些新的治理機制的未來前瞻的進一步的發展我覺得這些事情可能拼湊起來我們對於"},{"start":658.296,"end":672.661,"text":"臺灣在做淨零跟氣候變遷的問題上面跟國際上面的連結我覺得我們需要一個這個事情最後我要提醒一點我們都知道我們在UN裡面的參與是相對比較困難的我們對聯合國參與比較困難我覺得我們也需要發展更多在UN以外的"},{"start":673.341,"end":699.695,"text":"國際合作的參與的平台這部分我覺得是環境部現在還相對比較欠缺的部分我這邊其實有列了一些其實是在聯合國以外的參與機制我希望可以請部長再帶回去我們來討論哪些部分其實我們應該積極的再去參與而不只是說因為我們不是E1的締約國所以我們在這裡面談判會相對受限的問題其實在其他地方我們可以很好的發揮以上這個建議部長可不可以把這些建議帶到行政院或帶到國發會裡面跟"},{"start":701.616,"end":704.198,"text":"同時與財政部委員會委員會委員會委員會委員會委員會委員會委員會委員會委員會委員會"},{"start":730.204,"end":730.968,"text":"謝宏維 下一位請蘇喬惠 蘇委員"}]}}}}