{"id":149027,"url":"https://ivod.ly.gov.tw/Play/Clip/1M/149027","video_url":"https://ivod-lyvod.cdn.hinet.net/vod_1/_definst_/mp4:1MClips/60e87dad815fd5c3c7d29786071ef702a8fa0c68b4c214c5c986728e607a03223f1cde1601a035825ea18f28b6918d91.mp4/playlist.m3u8","委員名稱":"陳椒華","委員發言時間":"10:28:35 - 10:35:17","影片長度":"00:06:42","會議時間":"2023-12-14T09:00:00+08:00","會議名稱":"立法院第10屆第8會期社會福利及衛生環境委員會第15次全體委員會議（事由：邀請環境部部長、外交部、經濟部、衛生福利部、農業部、內政部、交通部、國家科學及技術委員會、財政部、金融監督管理委員會及財團法人國際合作發展基金會就「第二十八屆聯合國氣候變遷大會(COP28)返國報告與後續因應情形」進行專題報告，並備質詢。）","meet":{"tmpMeeting":null,"title":"第10屆第8會期社會福利及衛生環境委員會第15次全體委員會議","term":10,"type":"委員會","sessionPeriod":8,"sessionTimes":15,"committees":[26],"id":"委員會-10-8-26-15"},"date":"2023-12-14","duration":402,"end_time":"2023-12-14T10:35:17+08:00","start_time":"2023-12-14T10:28:35+08:00","features":["ai-transcript","gazette"],"type":"Clip","gazette":{"lineno":727,"blocks":[["陳委員椒華：（10時28分）謝謝主席。請部長。"],["主席：有請部長。"],["薛部長富盛：陳委員好。"],["陳委員椒華：部長好。部長，我們知道#MeToo事件之後，本席也有針對前環保署督察總隊李隊長的這個部分提出要求，我們要調查嘛！調查報告完成了嗎？"],["薛部長富盛：不但完成，也經過考績會開會通過了……"],["陳委員椒華：院長也看過了？"],["薛部長富盛：行政程序我已經批了，我們大概在最近應該會對外公布。"],["陳委員椒華：前天行政院秘書長說院長也看過了，對不對？"],["薛部長富盛：都看過了，所以應該會去公布。"],["陳委員椒華：所以環境部什麼時候要公布呢？"],["薛部長富盛：只要院長批示過應該就會公布了，因為我已經有批了，所以……"],["陳委員椒華：這個禮拜可以公布嗎？"],["薛部長富盛：應該是可以吧。"],["陳委員椒華：可以嘛！"],["薛部長富盛：對，因為這個都公開了，而且紀錄都很清楚，也做了懲處了。"],["陳委員椒華：好，那就請環境部公布。聽說是在等部長回來裁示，那就請……"],["薛部長富盛：我記得我回來，我馬上就批了。"],["陳委員椒華：那請儘速公布，謝謝。"],["薛部長富盛：是，會的。"],["陳委員椒華：好。再來本席也關心針對山坡地不當開發的問題，這是82年通過的環評，現在他有大規模的變更，只有備查，雖然是新竹縣政府在處理的，不過82年當年定稿的是環保署，雖是前環保署的環評作業，但到現在定稿本都沒有上網，請問什麼時候可以上網呢？本席已經追很久了。"],["薛部長富盛：這一點我請我們環保司的劉司長。"],["劉司長宗勇：跟陳委員報告一下，因為新竹市有給我們一個公文，第一個他手上有一份，另外一份是因為地方政府依照的山開辦法裡面也有提到環境評估報告，但那是在83年的，我們現在在確認那個版本是什麼，因為年代比較久遠，我們現在就是請他去確認。"],["陳委員椒華：對。"],["劉司長宗勇：但我們是從內政部……因為內政部的書件系統上沒有查到那個環評報告書……"],["陳委員椒華：可是當年在環保署審的，環保署應該有吧！"],["劉司長宗勇：對，我們現在就是在確認那個報告，因為它還有提到83年的那個版本，所以我們現在是請新竹縣政府確認……"],["陳委員椒華：如果有好幾個版本，我們也希望都能夠上網。"],["劉司長宗勇：對，趕快確認，我們會把它核對一下。"],["陳委員椒華：可不可以儘速？"],["劉司長宗勇：我們儘快，我們跟內政部就是在談這些文件的核對，畢竟是30年前的檔案，所以要確認一下。"],["陳委員椒華：本席也去地檢署告發了。"],["劉司長宗勇：瞭解。"],["陳委員椒華：所以也希望這個公文書能夠儘速出現，不要失蹤那麼久，謝謝。","再來針對那個……部長，我們也在杜拜一起關心氣候變遷COP28……"],["薛部長富盛：謝謝陳委員，是。"],["陳委員椒華：現在我們到杜拜也看到化石燃料的使用，整個杜拜幾乎每天的PM2.5都超過150。部長，現在就是說，我也看到我們國內空污的抵換，這個因為本席已經關心非常非常久，有十幾年了，也看到環保署要去用環保金爐、離島減量、舊車換新要來讓新的開發案可以抵換，所以我要請問部長，這個有經過公正單位的抵換機制，就是怎麼換，還有譬如說，臺北的移動污染源、臺北的金爐抵換可以用在高雄的開發嗎？這個都有審慎地評估過嗎？部長。"],["薛部長富盛：這點我可不可以請我們大氣環境司的蔡司長來回復一下比較細節的部分。"],["陳委員椒華：好。"],["蔡司長孟裕：謝謝委員。跟委員報告，剛剛委員提到了跨縣市的，這個部分是不可以抵換的，一定是在同一個空品區，所以如果是剛剛委員提到像……"],["陳委員椒華：可是司長，如果是同一個空品區的話也有問題啊！司長也非常清楚，譬如說工業區一直在增量，然後在偏鄉減量，你沒有做流行病學調查，或者是健康風險評估的時候，你會讓工業區附近民眾的風險會更高，這個是很可怕的啊！不是嗎？"],["蔡司長孟裕：跟委員報告，其實空氣是流來流去的，所以我們現在研究的情形是，整個空氣……"],["陳委員椒華：流來流去，可是整個氣流如果都停滯不流動的時候，那個污染量是很可怕的啊！你不能說在同一個空品區流來流去就可以去抵換，這是不對的，不是嗎？"],["蔡司長孟裕：跟委員報告，這個其實是研究出來的情形，在一個空品區裡面去做抵換，這個部分會得到最好的減量改善的效果。"],["陳委員椒華：我不能夠去相信這個部分，然後請部長好嗎？部長，我要請你瞭解這個部分是滿嚴重的，是不是可以給本席確認，是不是有公正單位去確認這樣子的抵換是不會影響國人健康的？你們要施行是不是可以暫緩呢？"],["薛部長富盛：我覺得這個是有必要，因為兼顧到空氣品質的控制，以及地區產業的發展。"],["陳委員椒華：但是國人健康還不如產業發展嗎？"],["薛部長富盛：可是陳委員應該知道，空氣是流通的，就如同我們臺灣每到冬季的時候，空污就特別嚴重，可是那個是境外的，又不是我們自己產生的。"],["陳委員椒華：部長，你講這一句就表示你是外行，冬天空氣不好是境外，這個真的就是你講外行話了，這個部分絕對不是你講的這樣，我在這裡也不攻擊你，我是說這個部分如果你要去抵換，你要拿出科學的、公正的確認，不會危害國人的健康，然後你再正式施行，可以嗎？"],["薛部長富盛：OK。"],["陳委員椒華：那就請司長給本席你們怎麼去抵換、抵換的方法、細節，我們再開公聽會或者是再確認，這樣可以嗎？"],["薛部長富盛：可以。"],["陳委員椒華：好，那就謝謝，謝謝主席。"],["薛部長富盛：謝謝陳委員。"],["主席：謝謝，請徐志榮徐委員。","先做一個宣告，今日無臨時提案，謝謝。"]],"agenda":{"page_end":466,"meet_id":"委員會-10-8-26-15","speakers":["吳欣盈","洪申翰","蘇巧慧","吳玉琴","林為洲","邱泰源","黃秀芳","陳椒華","徐志榮","張育美","陳瑩","王婉諭","賴惠員","楊曜","莊競程"],"page_start":393,"meetingDate":["2023-12-14"],"gazette_id":"1130201","agenda_lcidc_ids":["1130201_00007"],"meet_name":"立法院第10屆第8會期社會福利及衛生環境委員會第15次全體委員會議紀錄","content":"邀請環境部部長、外交部、經濟部、衛生福利部、農業部、內政部、交通部、國家科學及技術委\n員會、財政部、金融監督管理委員會及財團法人國際合作發展基金會就「第二十八屆聯合國氣候\n變遷大會(COP28)返國報告與後續因應情形」進行專題報告，並備質詢","agenda_id":"1130201_00006"}},"transcript":{"id":"149027","pyannote":{"name":"ronny","tool":"pyannote","data":{"url":"https://ivod.ly.gov.tw/Play/Clip/1M/149027","tool":"pyannote","id":"149027-pyannote"},"job_id":"dqFmBPh70zhMqHkq","queued_at":"2024-06-02 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\"score\": 0.912}, {\"word\": \"行\", \"start\": 382.923, \"end\": 382.943, \"score\": 0.0}], \"language\": \"zh\"}","srt":"1\n00:00:00,330 --> 00:00:13,592\n事件之後呢本席也有針對環保署前環保署的這個督察總隊李隊長的這個部分有提出這個要求我們要調查嘛\n\n2\n00:00:14,602 --> 00:00:39,863\n調查報告完成了嗎?不但完成,也經過考機會、開會通過行政程序我已經批了,我們大概在最近應該會對外去公布前天,行政院秘書長說院長也看過了都看過了所以就是說,那我們環境部什麼時候要公布呢?\n\n3\n00:00:41,890 --> 00:01:01,286\n只要院長批示過應該就會公布了因為我已經有批了好那這個禮拜可以公布嗎應該是可以吧對因為這個都公開了那就請環境部聽說是在等部長回來才是那就請我記得我回來我馬上就批了好那請\n\n4\n00:01:02,862 --> 00:01:27,984\n速公布是好謝謝好那再來本席也關心這個就是針對山坡地的開發不當的開發那這個是82年通過的環評那現在他有變更大規模的變更只有被查雖然是新竹縣政府在處理的不過當年82年定稿是環保署前環保署\n\n5\n00:01:29,059 --> 00:01:57,275\n的這個環評作業那定稿但是到現在定稿本都沒有上網那請問什麼時候可以上網呢本席已經追了很久了這一點我請我們環保事務的劉市長好崔委員跟崔委員報告一下因為新竹市它有給我們的公文說第一個它手上有一份那另外一份是因為地方政府依照三開辦法裡面也有提到環境評估報告但是那個是83年我們現在確認那個版本是什麼因為\n\n6\n00:01:57,935 --> 00:02:24,286\n因為年代比較久遠那我們先請他去確認因為我們從內政部他因為內政部的那個書件系統上沒有查到那個環評報告書可是當年在環保署審的應該環保署有吧對我們現在就是在確認那個報告因為他還有提到83年那個版本所以我們現在確認請新竹縣政府確認那如果有好幾個版本我們也希望都能夠上對趕快確認我們把它核對一下那可不可以盡速我們盡快我們跟內政部就要談這些文件把它核對因為畢竟是30年前的檔案\n\n7\n00:02:24,967 --> 00:02:35,840\n本席也去地檢署告發了所以也希望公文書能夠盡速出現不要失蹤那麼久再來針對\n\n8\n00:02:41,991 --> 00:02:59,741\n部長就是說我們也在杜拜一起關心這個氣候變遷COP28那現在我們到杜拜也看到這個化石燃料的使用整個杜拜幾乎每天都是PM2.5都超過150\n\n9\n00:03:02,503 --> 00:03:17,139\n那部長現在就是說我們國內我也看到我們的空屋的抵換那這個本行因為已經關心非常非常久了十幾年了那也看到環保署要去用環保金爐離島減換救車換新要來讓新的開發案可以抵換\n\n10\n00:03:24,366 --> 00:03:30,070\n那我要請問部長這個有經過公正單位的這個抵換的機制就是怎麼換還有呢比如說臺北的這個移動污染源臺北的金爐抵換可以用在高雄的這個開發可以嗎我們這個都有審慎的去評估過了嗎部長\n\n11\n00:03:44,492 --> 00:04:06,167\n這一點我可不可以請我們大區市長來回覆一下好不好比較細節的部分好謝謝委員跟委員報告剛剛委員提到了跨縣市的這個部分是不可以抵換的一定是在同一個空品區所以如果是剛剛委員提到\n\n12\n00:04:07,308 --> 00:04:28,545\n市長如果同一個空品區也有問題啊市長也非常清楚比如說工業區一直在增量然後在偏鄉減量然後你沒有做這個流行病學調查或者是健康風險評估的時候你會讓工業區附近的民眾的這個風險會更高啊這個是很可怕的啊\n\n13\n00:04:29,085 --> 00:04:40,078\n不是嗎跟委員報告其實空氣是流來流去的所以整個我們現在研究的情形是整個空氣流來流去可是那個整個氣流如果都\n\n14\n00:04:44,242 --> 00:05:02,223\n都停滯不流動的時候那個污染量是很可怕的啊那你不能說流來流去好像就同一個空品區就可以去抵換這是不對的不是嗎跟委員報告這個其實是研究出來的情形在一個空品區裡面去做抵換\n\n15\n00:05:03,104 --> 00:05:27,922\n那這個部分會得到最好的一個減量跟改善的效果我不能夠去相信這個部分請部長好不好部長我要請你了解這個部分是蠻嚴重那是不是可以給本席這個確認是不是有公正單位去確認這樣子的底換是不會影響國人健康的那你們要施行是不是可以暫緩呢\n\n16\n00:05:29,860 --> 00:05:54,972\n我覺得這個是有必要因為兼顧到空氣品質的控制以及地區產業的一個發展但是國人健康比產業發展還要不如產業發展嗎就是說空氣是流通就如我們台灣每到冬季的時候空汙就特別嚴重可是那個是境外的啊\n\n17\n00:05:55,532 --> 00:06:20,883\n又不是我們自己產生的部長你講這一句就是表示你是外行空氣空氣冬天空氣不好是境外你這個真的就是你外行化了這個部分絕對不是你講的這樣我在這裡也不攻擊你我是說這個部分你要去底換你要拿出科學的、公正的確認不會危害國人健康\n\n18\n00:06:21,483 --> 00:06:22,943\n然後你再正式施行\n\n","tsv":"start\tend\ttext\n330\t13592\t事件之後呢本席也有針對環保署前環保署的這個督察總隊李隊長的這個部分有提出這個要求我們要調查嘛\n14602\t39863\t調查報告完成了嗎?不但完成,也經過考機會、開會通過行政程序我已經批了,我們大概在最近應該會對外去公布前天,行政院秘書長說院長也看過了都看過了所以就是說,那我們環境部什麼時候要公布呢?\n41890\t61286\t只要院長批示過應該就會公布了因為我已經有批了好 那這個禮拜可以公布嗎應該是可以吧對 因為這個都公開了那就請環境部聽說是在等部長回來才是那就請我記得我回來我馬上就批了好 那請\n62862\t87984\t速公布是好謝謝好那再來本席也關心這個就是針對山坡地的開發不當的開發那這個是82年通過的環評那現在他有變更大規模的變更只有被查雖然是新竹縣政府在處理的不過當年82年定稿是環保署前環保署\n89059\t117275\t的這個環評作業那定稿但是到現在定稿本都沒有上網那請問什麼時候可以上網呢本席已經追了很久了這一點我請我們環保事務的劉市長好 崔委員跟崔委員報告一下因為新竹市它有給我們的公文說第一個它手上有一份那另外一份是因為地方政府依照三開辦法裡面也有提到環境評估報告但是那個是83年我們現在確認那個版本是什麼因為\n117935\t144286\t因為年代比較久遠那我們先請他去確認因為我們從內政部他因為內政部的那個書件系統上沒有查到那個環評報告書可是當年在環保署審的應該環保署有吧對我們現在就是在確認那個報告因為他還有提到83年那個版本所以我們現在確認請新竹縣政府確認那如果有好幾個版本我們也希望都能夠上對趕快確認我們把它核對一下那可不可以盡速我們盡快我們跟內政部就要談這些文件把它核對因為畢竟是30年前的檔案\n144967\t155840\t本席也去地檢署告發了所以也希望公文書能夠盡速出現不要失蹤那麼久再來針對\n161991\t179741\t部長 就是說我們也在杜拜一起關心這個氣候變遷COP28那現在我們到杜拜也看到這個化石燃料的使用整個杜拜幾乎每天都是PM2.5都超過150\n182503\t197139\t那部長現在就是說我們國內我也看到我們的空屋的抵換那這個本行因為已經關心非常非常久了十幾年了那也看到環保署要去用環保金爐離島減換救車換新要來讓新的開發案可以抵換\n204366\t210070\t那我要請問部長這個有經過公正單位的這個抵換的機制就是怎麼換還有呢比如說臺北的這個移動污染源臺北的金爐抵換可以用在高雄的這個開發可以嗎我們這個都有審慎的去評估過了嗎部長\n224492\t246167\t這一點我可不可以請我們大區市長來回覆一下好不好 比較細節的部分好 謝謝委員跟委員報告剛剛委員提到了跨縣市的這個部分是不可以抵換的一定是在同一個空品區所以如果是剛剛委員提到\n247308\t268545\t市長如果同一個空品區也有問題啊市長也非常清楚比如說工業區一直在增量然後在偏鄉減量然後你沒有做這個流行病學調查或者是健康風險評估的時候你會讓工業區附近的民眾的這個風險會更高啊這個是很可怕的啊\n269085\t280078\t不是嗎跟委員報告其實空氣是流來流去的所以整個我們現在研究的情形是整個空氣流來流去可是那個整個氣流如果都\n284242\t302223\t都停滯不流動的時候那個污染量是很可怕的啊那你不能說流來流去好像就同一個空品區就可以去抵換這是不對的不是嗎跟委員報告這個其實是研究出來的情形在一個空品區裡面去做抵換\n303104\t327922\t那這個部分會得到最好的一個減量跟改善的效果我不能夠去相信這個部分請部長好不好部長我要請你了解這個部分是蠻嚴重那是不是可以給本席這個確認是不是有公正單位去確認這樣子的底換是不會影響國人健康的那你們要施行是不是可以暫緩呢\n329860\t354972\t我覺得這個是有必要因為兼顧到空氣品質的控制以及地區產業的一個發展但是國人健康比產業發展還要不如產業發展嗎就是說空氣是流通就如我們台灣每到冬季的時候空汙就特別嚴重可是那個是境外的啊\n355532\t380883\t又不是我們自己產生的部長你講這一句就是表示你是外行空氣空氣冬天空氣不好是境外你這個真的就是你外行化了這個部分絕對不是你講的這樣我在這裡也不攻擊你我是說這個部分你要去底換你要拿出科學的、公正的確認不會危害國人健康\n381483\t382943\t然後你再正式施行\n","txt":"事件之後呢本席也有針對環保署前環保署的這個督察總隊李隊長的這個部分有提出這個要求我們要調查嘛\n調查報告完成了嗎?不但完成,也經過考機會、開會通過行政程序我已經批了,我們大概在最近應該會對外去公布前天,行政院秘書長說院長也看過了都看過了所以就是說,那我們環境部什麼時候要公布呢?\n只要院長批示過應該就會公布了因為我已經有批了好 那這個禮拜可以公布嗎應該是可以吧對 因為這個都公開了那就請環境部聽說是在等部長回來才是那就請我記得我回來我馬上就批了好 那請\n速公布是好謝謝好那再來本席也關心這個就是針對山坡地的開發不當的開發那這個是82年通過的環評那現在他有變更大規模的變更只有被查雖然是新竹縣政府在處理的不過當年82年定稿是環保署前環保署\n的這個環評作業那定稿但是到現在定稿本都沒有上網那請問什麼時候可以上網呢本席已經追了很久了這一點我請我們環保事務的劉市長好 崔委員跟崔委員報告一下因為新竹市它有給我們的公文說第一個它手上有一份那另外一份是因為地方政府依照三開辦法裡面也有提到環境評估報告但是那個是83年我們現在確認那個版本是什麼因為\n因為年代比較久遠那我們先請他去確認因為我們從內政部他因為內政部的那個書件系統上沒有查到那個環評報告書可是當年在環保署審的應該環保署有吧對我們現在就是在確認那個報告因為他還有提到83年那個版本所以我們現在確認請新竹縣政府確認那如果有好幾個版本我們也希望都能夠上對趕快確認我們把它核對一下那可不可以盡速我們盡快我們跟內政部就要談這些文件把它核對因為畢竟是30年前的檔案\n本席也去地檢署告發了所以也希望公文書能夠盡速出現不要失蹤那麼久再來針對\n部長 就是說我們也在杜拜一起關心這個氣候變遷COP28那現在我們到杜拜也看到這個化石燃料的使用整個杜拜幾乎每天都是PM2.5都超過150\n那部長現在就是說我們國內我也看到我們的空屋的抵換那這個本行因為已經關心非常非常久了十幾年了那也看到環保署要去用環保金爐離島減換救車換新要來讓新的開發案可以抵換\n那我要請問部長這個有經過公正單位的這個抵換的機制就是怎麼換還有呢比如說臺北的這個移動污染源臺北的金爐抵換可以用在高雄的這個開發可以嗎我們這個都有審慎的去評估過了嗎部長\n這一點我可不可以請我們大區市長來回覆一下好不好 比較細節的部分好 謝謝委員跟委員報告剛剛委員提到了跨縣市的這個部分是不可以抵換的一定是在同一個空品區所以如果是剛剛委員提到\n市長如果同一個空品區也有問題啊市長也非常清楚比如說工業區一直在增量然後在偏鄉減量然後你沒有做這個流行病學調查或者是健康風險評估的時候你會讓工業區附近的民眾的這個風險會更高啊這個是很可怕的啊\n不是嗎跟委員報告其實空氣是流來流去的所以整個我們現在研究的情形是整個空氣流來流去可是那個整個氣流如果都\n都停滯不流動的時候那個污染量是很可怕的啊那你不能說流來流去好像就同一個空品區就可以去抵換這是不對的不是嗎跟委員報告這個其實是研究出來的情形在一個空品區裡面去做抵換\n那這個部分會得到最好的一個減量跟改善的效果我不能夠去相信這個部分請部長好不好部長我要請你了解這個部分是蠻嚴重那是不是可以給本席這個確認是不是有公正單位去確認這樣子的底換是不會影響國人健康的那你們要施行是不是可以暫緩呢\n我覺得這個是有必要因為兼顧到空氣品質的控制以及地區產業的一個發展但是國人健康比產業發展還要不如產業發展嗎就是說空氣是流通就如我們台灣每到冬季的時候空汙就特別嚴重可是那個是境外的啊\n又不是我們自己產生的部長你講這一句就是表示你是外行空氣空氣冬天空氣不好是境外你這個真的就是你外行化了這個部分絕對不是你講的這樣我在這裡也不攻擊你我是說這個部分你要去底換你要拿出科學的、公正的確認不會危害國人健康\n然後你再正式施行\n","vtt":"WEBVTT\n\n00:00.330 --> 00:13.592\n事件之後呢本席也有針對環保署前環保署的這個督察總隊李隊長的這個部分有提出這個要求我們要調查嘛\n\n00:14.602 --> 00:39.863\n調查報告完成了嗎?不但完成,也經過考機會、開會通過行政程序我已經批了,我們大概在最近應該會對外去公布前天,行政院秘書長說院長也看過了都看過了所以就是說,那我們環境部什麼時候要公布呢?\n\n00:41.890 --> 01:01.286\n只要院長批示過應該就會公布了因為我已經有批了好那這個禮拜可以公布嗎應該是可以吧對因為這個都公開了那就請環境部聽說是在等部長回來才是那就請我記得我回來我馬上就批了好那請\n\n01:02.862 --> 01:27.984\n速公布是好謝謝好那再來本席也關心這個就是針對山坡地的開發不當的開發那這個是82年通過的環評那現在他有變更大規模的變更只有被查雖然是新竹縣政府在處理的不過當年82年定稿是環保署前環保署\n\n01:29.059 --> 01:57.275\n的這個環評作業那定稿但是到現在定稿本都沒有上網那請問什麼時候可以上網呢本席已經追了很久了這一點我請我們環保事務的劉市長好崔委員跟崔委員報告一下因為新竹市它有給我們的公文說第一個它手上有一份那另外一份是因為地方政府依照三開辦法裡面也有提到環境評估報告但是那個是83年我們現在確認那個版本是什麼因為\n\n01:57.935 --> 02:24.286\n因為年代比較久遠那我們先請他去確認因為我們從內政部他因為內政部的那個書件系統上沒有查到那個環評報告書可是當年在環保署審的應該環保署有吧對我們現在就是在確認那個報告因為他還有提到83年那個版本所以我們現在確認請新竹縣政府確認那如果有好幾個版本我們也希望都能夠上對趕快確認我們把它核對一下那可不可以盡速我們盡快我們跟內政部就要談這些文件把它核對因為畢竟是30年前的檔案\n\n02:24.967 --> 02:35.840\n本席也去地檢署告發了所以也希望公文書能夠盡速出現不要失蹤那麼久再來針對\n\n02:41.991 --> 02:59.741\n部長就是說我們也在杜拜一起關心這個氣候變遷COP28那現在我們到杜拜也看到這個化石燃料的使用整個杜拜幾乎每天都是PM2.5都超過150\n\n03:02.503 --> 03:17.139\n那部長現在就是說我們國內我也看到我們的空屋的抵換那這個本行因為已經關心非常非常久了十幾年了那也看到環保署要去用環保金爐離島減換救車換新要來讓新的開發案可以抵換\n\n03:24.366 --> 03:30.070\n那我要請問部長這個有經過公正單位的這個抵換的機制就是怎麼換還有呢比如說臺北的這個移動污染源臺北的金爐抵換可以用在高雄的這個開發可以嗎我們這個都有審慎的去評估過了嗎部長\n\n03:44.492 --> 04:06.167\n這一點我可不可以請我們大區市長來回覆一下好不好比較細節的部分好謝謝委員跟委員報告剛剛委員提到了跨縣市的這個部分是不可以抵換的一定是在同一個空品區所以如果是剛剛委員提到\n\n04:07.308 --> 04:28.545\n市長如果同一個空品區也有問題啊市長也非常清楚比如說工業區一直在增量然後在偏鄉減量然後你沒有做這個流行病學調查或者是健康風險評估的時候你會讓工業區附近的民眾的這個風險會更高啊這個是很可怕的啊\n\n04:29.085 --> 04:40.078\n不是嗎跟委員報告其實空氣是流來流去的所以整個我們現在研究的情形是整個空氣流來流去可是那個整個氣流如果都\n\n04:44.242 --> 05:02.223\n都停滯不流動的時候那個污染量是很可怕的啊那你不能說流來流去好像就同一個空品區就可以去抵換這是不對的不是嗎跟委員報告這個其實是研究出來的情形在一個空品區裡面去做抵換\n\n05:03.104 --> 05:27.922\n那這個部分會得到最好的一個減量跟改善的效果我不能夠去相信這個部分請部長好不好部長我要請你了解這個部分是蠻嚴重那是不是可以給本席這個確認是不是有公正單位去確認這樣子的底換是不會影響國人健康的那你們要施行是不是可以暫緩呢\n\n05:29.860 --> 05:54.972\n我覺得這個是有必要因為兼顧到空氣品質的控制以及地區產業的一個發展但是國人健康比產業發展還要不如產業發展嗎就是說空氣是流通就如我們台灣每到冬季的時候空汙就特別嚴重可是那個是境外的啊\n\n05:55.532 --> 06:20.883\n又不是我們自己產生的部長你講這一句就是表示你是外行空氣空氣冬天空氣不好是境外你這個真的就是你外行化了這個部分絕對不是你講的這樣我在這裡也不攻擊你我是說這個部分你要去底換你要拿出科學的、公正的確認不會危害國人健康\n\n06:21.483 --> 06:22.943\n然後你再正式施行\n\n","segments":[{"start":0.33,"end":13.592,"text":"事件之後呢本席也有針對環保署前環保署的這個督察總隊李隊長的這個部分有提出這個要求我們要調查嘛"},{"start":14.602,"end":39.863,"text":"調查報告完成了嗎?不但完成,也經過考機會、開會通過行政程序我已經批了,我們大概在最近應該會對外去公布前天,行政院秘書長說院長也看過了都看過了所以就是說,那我們環境部什麼時候要公布呢?"},{"start":41.89,"end":61.286,"text":"只要院長批示過應該就會公布了因為我已經有批了好 那這個禮拜可以公布嗎應該是可以吧對 因為這個都公開了那就請環境部聽說是在等部長回來才是那就請我記得我回來我馬上就批了好 那請"},{"start":62.862,"end":87.984,"text":"速公布是好謝謝好那再來本席也關心這個就是針對山坡地的開發不當的開發那這個是82年通過的環評那現在他有變更大規模的變更只有被查雖然是新竹縣政府在處理的不過當年82年定稿是環保署前環保署"},{"start":89.059,"end":117.275,"text":"的這個環評作業那定稿但是到現在定稿本都沒有上網那請問什麼時候可以上網呢本席已經追了很久了這一點我請我們環保事務的劉市長好 崔委員跟崔委員報告一下因為新竹市它有給我們的公文說第一個它手上有一份那另外一份是因為地方政府依照三開辦法裡面也有提到環境評估報告但是那個是83年我們現在確認那個版本是什麼因為"},{"start":117.935,"end":144.286,"text":"因為年代比較久遠那我們先請他去確認因為我們從內政部他因為內政部的那個書件系統上沒有查到那個環評報告書可是當年在環保署審的應該環保署有吧對我們現在就是在確認那個報告因為他還有提到83年那個版本所以我們現在確認請新竹縣政府確認那如果有好幾個版本我們也希望都能夠上對趕快確認我們把它核對一下那可不可以盡速我們盡快我們跟內政部就要談這些文件把它核對因為畢竟是30年前的檔案"},{"start":144.967,"end":155.84,"text":"本席也去地檢署告發了所以也希望公文書能夠盡速出現不要失蹤那麼久再來針對"},{"start":161.991,"end":179.741,"text":"部長 就是說我們也在杜拜一起關心這個氣候變遷COP28那現在我們到杜拜也看到這個化石燃料的使用整個杜拜幾乎每天都是PM2.5都超過150"},{"start":182.503,"end":197.139,"text":"那部長現在就是說我們國內我也看到我們的空屋的抵換那這個本行因為已經關心非常非常久了十幾年了那也看到環保署要去用環保金爐離島減換救車換新要來讓新的開發案可以抵換"},{"start":204.366,"end":210.07,"text":"那我要請問部長這個有經過公正單位的這個抵換的機制就是怎麼換還有呢比如說臺北的這個移動污染源臺北的金爐抵換可以用在高雄的這個開發可以嗎我們這個都有審慎的去評估過了嗎部長"},{"start":224.492,"end":246.167,"text":"這一點我可不可以請我們大區市長來回覆一下好不好 比較細節的部分好 謝謝委員跟委員報告剛剛委員提到了跨縣市的這個部分是不可以抵換的一定是在同一個空品區所以如果是剛剛委員提到"},{"start":247.308,"end":268.545,"text":"市長如果同一個空品區也有問題啊市長也非常清楚比如說工業區一直在增量然後在偏鄉減量然後你沒有做這個流行病學調查或者是健康風險評估的時候你會讓工業區附近的民眾的這個風險會更高啊這個是很可怕的啊"},{"start":269.085,"end":280.078,"text":"不是嗎跟委員報告其實空氣是流來流去的所以整個我們現在研究的情形是整個空氣流來流去可是那個整個氣流如果都"},{"start":284.242,"end":302.223,"text":"都停滯不流動的時候那個污染量是很可怕的啊那你不能說流來流去好像就同一個空品區就可以去抵換這是不對的不是嗎跟委員報告這個其實是研究出來的情形在一個空品區裡面去做抵換"},{"start":303.104,"end":327.922,"text":"那這個部分會得到最好的一個減量跟改善的效果我不能夠去相信這個部分請部長好不好部長我要請你了解這個部分是蠻嚴重那是不是可以給本席這個確認是不是有公正單位去確認這樣子的底換是不會影響國人健康的那你們要施行是不是可以暫緩呢"},{"start":329.86,"end":354.972,"text":"我覺得這個是有必要因為兼顧到空氣品質的控制以及地區產業的一個發展但是國人健康比產業發展還要不如產業發展嗎就是說空氣是流通就如我們台灣每到冬季的時候空汙就特別嚴重可是那個是境外的啊"},{"start":355.532,"end":380.883,"text":"又不是我們自己產生的部長你講這一句就是表示你是外行空氣空氣冬天空氣不好是境外你這個真的就是你外行化了這個部分絕對不是你講的這樣我在這裡也不攻擊你我是說這個部分你要去底換你要拿出科學的、公正的確認不會危害國人健康"},{"start":381.483,"end":382.943,"text":"然後你再正式施行"}]}}}}