{"id":149098,"url":"https://ivod.ly.gov.tw/Play/Clip/1M/149098","video_url":"https://ivod-lyvod.cdn.hinet.net/vod_1/_definst_/mp4:1MClips/20dc639cdbf6214f3ee57cb81673c2fc659e523f497a2948f8ba9b0039caa7a6dea26643c0888b925ea18f28b6918d91.mp4/playlist.m3u8","委員名稱":"邱臣遠","委員發言時間":"11:05:22 - 11:21:14","影片長度":"00:15:52","會議時間":"2023-09-22T09:00:00+08:00","會議名稱":"第10屆第8會期第1次會議（事由：一、行政院院長提出有關農業部辦理專案進口雞蛋相關事項專案報告並備質詢。（9月22日）\n二、行政院院長提出登革熱防治相關事宜專案報告並備質詢。（9月23日）\n三、行政院院長施政報告並備質詢。（9月26日）\n四、9月22日上午9時至10時為國是論壇時間。）","meet":{"tmpMeeting":null,"title":"立法院第10屆第8會期第1次會議","id":"院會-10-8-1","type":"院會","term":10,"sessionPeriod":8,"sessionTimes":1},"date":"2023-09-22","duration":952,"end_time":"2023-09-22T11:21:14+08:00","start_time":"2023-09-22T11:05:22+08:00","features":["ai-transcript","gazette"],"type":"Clip","gazette":{"lineno":539,"blocks":[["邱委員臣遠：（11時5分）謝謝游院長，我們邀請行政院陳建仁院長、農業部代理部長陳部長以及衛福部薛部長。"],["主席：陳院長請。"],["陳院長建仁：邱委員早。"],["邱委員臣遠：院長，我想這次雞蛋的事件，您稍早也作出道歉，雖然來得有點晚，不過我們還是肯定你的態度，但是我們必須還是要非常嚴正地來面對這次的問題。我想這次雞蛋的問題，我們先就教院長，今天最新的狀況就是勤億蛋品，就是在9月15號聲稱百分之百來源國為國產蛋的這個廠商，事實上後來在流向的追蹤上，發現了他實質購買了進口蛋1.6萬箱，高達600萬顆的巴西蛋，比台農買得還多，更被發現當時該篇聲稱百分之百國產蛋的這個聲明，其實昨天晚上9點已經從網路上下架了，請問現在目前院長有沒有掌握這個最新的狀況？"],["陳院長建仁：我想任何的進口蛋，如果把它標示為國產蛋，這是不合法的，然後應該要立刻地下架。"],["邱委員臣遠：立刻下架？所以你認為這是業者的標示不實，所以該罰就罰？"],["陳院長建仁：當然啊！"],["邱委員臣遠：當時他們配合國家的政策，在相關的，剛剛農業部的代理部長有提到，你們所謂的這個「實質轉型」，這是我們今年度聽到最奇葩的一個形容詞，你們當時沸沸揚揚講「雞蛋國家隊」，但是我在這次進口蛋的專案看到的是，不管是政府、廠商還是業者，甚至是進口上的、市場上的產銷的掌握都不足，才會造成這樣這麼多的破洞。","第二個問題，我們看到現在地方政府人人自危。根據嘉義市衛生局調查稽查的結果，勤億公司3月到5月已經從菲律賓、土耳其、美國跟泰國總共進口了二百多萬顆殼蛋，而且已經全部做成洗選蛋售出了，但是卻對外還是宣稱是本土蛋，這中間有沒有標示不符的狀況？"],["陳院長建仁：跟委員報告，他所用的進口蛋，實際上在政府專案進口之後，確實有23家的廠商也自行進口，不是透過這個專案進口，那他的這一些進口蛋實際上……"],["邱委員臣遠：那你們當時都沒有辦法掌握這個數量嗎？除了專案進口的，一般的廠商在進口上，你們沒有辦法做一個總量管理嗎？"],["陳院長建仁：我們不可能禁止廠商去……"],["邱委員臣遠：不可能禁止，但是你可以掌握嘛，可以掌握吧？"],["陳院長建仁：我們確實是……"],["邱委員臣遠：而且現在的問題是，你進來了之後還要透過洗選、加工、延長效期，既然是這樣，那為什麼當時在進口的時候不以這些加工的為主？或者是本土的這些國產蛋以加工的為主，要把它混充到現在在食安上造成這麼大混淆的一個破口？"],["陳院長建仁：以我們專案進口蛋進來的這個部分，確實到6月以後，我們就大部分都轉為加工蛋了，但是廠商自行進口的會進入殼蛋，這個時候因為他是自行進口，就完全要符合衛福部的規定。相關的標示都要符合規定，那這個標示規定講得很清楚，就是外國進口的蛋它的效期到什麼時候要標到什麼時候，而且要標示它的進口國……"],["邱委員臣遠：我想這一次的事件充分……"],["陳院長建仁：所以如果他沒有這樣標示的話，那是他違法。"],["邱委員臣遠：充分延伸出一個問題。其實這次有三個重點：第一個超思的事情，其實這次的專案進口有三個國人要瞭解的疑慮，第一個，有沒有圖利特定廠商？"],["陳院長建仁：沒有。"],["邱委員臣遠：當時一個50萬元資本額的公司有辦法去進口八千多萬顆的雞蛋，甚至是巴西的，中間的採購過程有沒有透明？相關的金流、合約的內容、相關專案進口的法源依據，其實就是前言不對後語才造成這麼大的一個社會紛擾。第二個階段，就是農委會在整個產銷上對數量掌握的精準度就不夠，如果說當時1天的需求有2,400萬顆，1天缺的蛋大概是200萬顆，其實你們當時有二個方式：一個是放任市場機制，讓他們自己去逼這些囤蛋的蛋……"],["陳院長建仁：報告，那這個蛋價會狂飆。"],["邱委員臣遠：沒有錯，但是你要去控制，但是你有沒有必要全部都透過專案進口，這是選擇，我們沒有說它一定錯，但是當時你們既然選擇了這條路，你就應該要掌握好相關國內國產蛋的產能，包含這些如果要冷凍……"],["陳院長建仁：確實是有掌握。"],["邱委員臣遠：有掌握，那回到第二個問題……"],["陳院長建仁：在3、4、5月的時候專案進口蛋都完全銷售完，而且都是以殼蛋的方式。"],["邱委員臣遠：院長，那我們就要回到……"],["陳院長建仁：在6月份的時候，因為蛋雞復養上升了，而且蛋雞復養很快到8月份的時候已經回復到原來的這個目標，而且再加上剛才你講的23家蛋商自己進口的這個部分，所以才會使得我們當時的估算，我們沒有算到這個蛋商在6月份會有進口的這個區塊。"],["邱委員臣遠：我們回歸事實的本質，現在確實就是有5,402萬顆蛋必須要銷毀，這也造成非常多的成本損耗，甚至有延伸到第三個問題是食安的問題，現在這一些所謂的過期蛋有沒有淪入加工市場？"],["陳院長建仁：沒有。"],["邱委員臣遠：怎麼會沒有？在新北市都已經查到了，已經流到這些團膳。"],["陳院長建仁：那個所有剛才說的5,402萬蛋通通是……"],["邱委員臣遠：這個是現在，但是我說之前已經用掉的，但是我現在必須要說，現在造成的是民眾的恐慌，院長。"],["陳院長建仁：不會造成恐慌的理由……"],["邱委員臣遠：怎麼會不會？來，我們看一下那個目前的幾個狀況，包含連鎖的港式餐廳，現在傳出多人上吐下瀉……"],["陳院長建仁：那個不是……"],["邱委員臣遠：主動停賣滑蛋的餐點……"],["陳院長建仁：這個是……"],["邱委員臣遠：院長，我覺得我們要認真面對這個問題，第一個，你們的這個政策……"],["陳院長建仁：我贊成食安很重要。"],["邱委員臣遠：這個政策已經造成民眾的恐慌了，現在大家出去，實際的老百姓，我出去點餐，我不敢點半熟蛋，我可能看到滑蛋的產品，用到蛋液bakery這些做麵包的、做糕點的，甚至是現在中秋節要到了，這是嚴重影響到消費者的信心，這個你必須要正視，你有沒有辦法去把這個流向抓出來？"],["陳院長建仁：我要跟委員報告，這個專案進口的這個蛋現在都已經沒有在市面上，而且在專案進口的液蛋部分都是用來做為加工用，或者現在已經冷凍儲存，那這一些蛋絕對不會進入到市場。另外，很重要的一個部分，您剛才講到的這些食安上的一些問題，我們要來確定這些到底是不是用的是進口蛋，因為臺灣的蛋每天有2,400萬顆，其中進口蛋的銷售量是不到2%，所以這個就是要跟……"],["邱委員臣遠：我想現在就是整個消費者的信心已經被打擊了，這是非常重要，所以有8個字：「源頭管理、明白標示」。"],["陳院長建仁：沒有錯。"],["邱委員臣遠：整個產銷履歷、供銷的狀況、食品鏈，你要把它抓好，尤其這個衍生到了社會成本，地方政府、人人都要請這些稽查員去稽查的時候，其實不只是對廠商，對於消費者都是一個很嚴重信心上的傷害，你現在怎麼樣重建這個信心，現在是你的重點工作。"],["陳院長建仁：我們談到是中央跟地方來聯合稽查。"],["邱委員臣遠：第二個，我們談到農業部統計今年3月到7月也進口了1億4,531萬顆蛋，現在也有南部的民代爆料，專案進口蛋還沒有全數到貨，現在高屏物流業者盛傳還有更多的蛋在海上等著進來，這部分我們請教農業部，這個消息屬實嗎？目前數量掌握是多少？"],["陳代理部長駿季：我想我們在專案進口的過程中是到明年的6月底，那我剛才也說了，就是我們的庫存會根據我們國內生產的這些量能而做……"],["邱委員臣遠：所以你們現在不會再用殼蛋上架？"],["陳代理部長駿季：對，現在8月到9月的部分大概進口三百多萬顆，現在在海上的大概是80萬顆，那我們必須維持一個最低水位的安全庫存，來預防今年冬天可能的這些禽流感的風險，造成一些缺蛋的危機，所以……"],["邱委員臣遠：那你這些新的進口蛋現在進到國內來，還會不會做成洗選蛋、加工蛋？還是你們對用途有沒有指定？"],["陳代理部長駿季：我想在剛才院長的專案報告裡面也提到了，就是未來我們這些現在包括未來進口的部分，我們都會進到所謂的加工用途，不會再用殼蛋的方式去呈現到我們的賣場上面。"],["邱委員臣遠：好，那我想以後如果說有專案進口的，我認為應該要把它分類好，如果是殼蛋進口，應該就是原裝上架。"],["陳代理部長駿季：是。"],["邱委員臣遠：不應該再透過國內的加工，第一個，衍生成本；第二個，會造成食安的風險。"],["陳代理部長駿季：是。"],["邱委員臣遠：院長，我跟你講一個很實在的，沙門氏菌的問題，現在只要大家吃到雞蛋，肚子不舒服都算你行政院的，因為大家沒有辦法去判斷這個到底有沒有混充到，這個是事實。"],["陳院長建仁：所以委員……"],["邱委員臣遠：這個你必須要很嚴肅地面對，你同意我這個講法嗎？"],["陳院長建仁：我同意。尤其你剛才講的，我剛才在報告也提到，就是未來如果從國外要專案進口殼蛋的話，我們在原廠洗選完以後就完全進入……"],["邱委員臣遠：本來就應該要這樣啊！"],["陳院長建仁：對，沒有，當時在緊急的情況下要讓八千多萬顆……"],["邱委員臣遠：緊急的情況我們很清楚，當時大家很辛苦，這時候……"],["陳院長建仁：八千多萬顆的蛋要一次洗選完再……"],["邱委員臣遠：所以在進口蛋的國家的選擇上，我個人會建議，本席建議你們還是要以亞洲鄰近的國家、船期短的為準。"],["陳院長建仁：對，我們現在是……"],["邱委員臣遠：你買到巴西去，太遠了嘛！"],["陳院長建仁：當時只有巴西沒有禽流感。"],["邱委員臣遠：沒有啦！當時泰國、日本都有臺商在幫忙啦！"],["陳院長建仁：但是泰國也是談了好久，我們現在是以泰國跟澳洲為主要的輸入國家。"],["邱委員臣遠：我想針對這次的教訓把它蒐整，相關進口蛋的專案用途以及來源國的篩選，我覺得這個要更明確。"],["陳院長建仁：好。"],["邱委員臣遠：再來是相關的產銷機制，你說這些進口你們沒有，其他的廠商進口你們沒有辦法掌握，但是洗選蛋的工廠或是有冷凍倉儲的這些廠商，大概誰有這些設備、誰有這些條件，你們農業部應該都能夠掌握，這個部分也可以從這邊的機器的數字去盤點出一個基本的用量，這樣子才有辦法有效地去掌握這個狀況，這次的問題又變成甩鍋給畜產會……"],["陳院長建仁：我剛才的報告跟您講的是一樣的，我們未來對於所有進口蛋的部分會加強所有資訊的管控，在這裡面，其實委員你談到一個很重要的重點，就是進口商進來的這個部分，我們如果知道它的所有流向還有標示的部分，未來我們也會加強中央跟地方的聯合稽查，然後使這個標示都能夠正確。"],["邱委員臣遠：院長，我提供一個專業的建議，如果現在全民國防，包含我們現在的極端氣候、COVID-19百年疫情造成現在逆全球化供應鏈的狀況，其實糧食自主率就是我們國家安全層級的問題。"],["陳院長建仁：沒有錯。"],["邱委員臣遠：包含雞蛋，這次的事件告訴我們，其實要用更上位的跨部會去做相關國安、糧食自主率的整合，所以不管是專案進口、國內生產，廠商應該要配合，政府政令要明確，不是互相甩鍋。現在是怎麼樣？農業部甩鍋給食藥署，食藥署甩鍋給業者，業者再甩鍋給農業部。"],["陳院長建仁：沒有甩鍋。"],["邱委員臣遠：結果雞蛋國家隊變成甩鍋國家隊。"],["陳院長建仁：沒有甩鍋。我跟委員報告，我剛才的精進措施裡面也就提到這件事情，為了使臺灣的雞蛋能夠有比較好的自主的生產，我們會使所有養雞場都能夠用水簾式的密閉的……"],["邱委員臣遠：這個一直都在做，但是輔導的速度不夠快，預算每年也編很多啦！"],["陳院長建仁：因為也要地方政府來給許可證，因為它要改建的時候要許可證，而稽查這個部分還有流向這個部分，我們會建立相關的資訊體系來進行。"],["邱委員臣遠：我想政治的核心在執行力，這本來就有業者、地方政府、中央政府配合上的一個問題，所以如果行政院重視這件事，要把它拉高到糧食自主率、國安的層級，從這個案子去做後面的精進措施，包含其他的大宗物資跟糧食應該都要用這樣的狀況。","最後，我想中央畜產會這次的角色非常重要，陳吉仲前部長也辭職了，畜產會的董事長也辭職了，被戲稱說是避重就輕、溜之大吉，甚至是匆匆離去，我們不做這樣的政治攻擊，但是我們必須說，這個對國會，我個人在這邊表達抗議，在這個專案報告之前辭職，迴避國會的監督，其實這也是迴避民意的監督。當然院長今天你有道歉，這個我們也接受，也尊重，但是我們必須要講畜產會的問題，這次外界就看到畜產會角色的問題，也懷疑它的功能，它是不是扮演上帝之手？尤其前董事長林聰賢自己先心虛落跑，包含進口廠商遴選的簽約、供銷分配、報廢雞蛋的處理，發覺它其實權力很大，但是沒有辦法接受到國會的監督。請問農業部針對這次的案子，行政院有沒有考慮把畜產會收回變成公務機關，讓它沒有辦法迴避監督？"],["陳代理部長駿季：我想畜產會本身是依照畜牧法而成立的，整個畜產會的宗旨就是做所謂的產銷調節……"],["邱委員臣遠：直接告訴我，有沒有考慮收回行政院、公務機關？因它現在等於我們監督不到。"],["陳代理部長駿季：我想不是所有的……"],["邱委員臣遠：院長來回應好了。"],["陳院長建仁：我想畜產會有它的功能，畜產會到目前為止，80%的功能都是在於有關於豬肉的屠宰這個部分。"],["邱委員臣遠：沒有關係，您直接具體回應我的問題，有沒有評估要把它收回變成公務機關？"],["陳院長建仁：我們來評估畜產會怎麼樣讓它的功能能夠更加的發揮，而且……"],["邱委員臣遠：而且不能迴避監督。"],["陳院長建仁：對，我就是要講這個，而且能夠受到畜牧司這樣的監督。"],["邱委員臣遠：好，我們希望你評估畜產會收回公務機關的相關評估，好不好？"],["陳院長建仁：好。實際上，畜產會的董事等等，我們可以安排相關的……"],["邱委員臣遠：這個部分提出一個改善報告給本席辦公室，好不好？"],["陳院長建仁：好，我們來看怎麼樣來改善畜產會的功能。"],["邱委員臣遠：OK！兩個禮拜。"],["陳院長建仁：好。"],["邱委員臣遠：最後一個訴求，很簡單，因為現在5,402萬顆蛋大家非常關心，尤其這次的銷毀，可能有提到說會做為農業堆肥，請農業部，我認為就是說在相關的銷毀過程，還有遴選廠商，包含後續招標、公布得標的廠商，相關的銷毀的過程必須要公開透明，也要提出一個銷毀過程的報告，請院長可以承諾兩週內提供。"],["陳院長建仁：好，我們來規劃。"],["邱委員臣遠：這中間一定要公開透明。"],["陳院長建仁：是。"],["邱委員臣遠：不可以再有黑箱的部分。"],["陳代理部長駿季：我可以先跟委員報告，我們昨天就要求畜產會，未來針對庫存的蛋品，第一個，你要把整個銷毀的時程列出來，然後公告在相關的資訊站裡面，然後有相關的人員，第三方人員去陪同、去押這個車子。"],["邱委員臣遠：好。"],["主席：謝謝邱委員。接下來請王委員鴻薇質詢。"]],"agenda":{"page_end":18,"meet_id":"院會-10-8-1","speakers":["游錫堃"],"page_start":1,"meetingDate":["2023-09-22"],"gazette_id":"1126301","agenda_lcidc_ids":["1126301_00002"],"meet_name":"立法院第10屆第8會期第1次會議紀錄","content":"報告事項","agenda_id":"1126301_00001"}},"transcript":{"id":"149098","pyannote":{"name":"ronny","tool":"pyannote","data":{"url":"https://ivod.ly.gov.tw/Play/Clip/1M/149098","tool":"pyannote","id":"149098-pyannote"},"job_id":"PTNrTYtLbxalIHkc","queued_at":"2024-06-02 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\"start\": 935.006, \"end\": 935.146, \"score\": 0.998}, {\"word\": \"蛋\", \"start\": 935.146, \"end\": 935.846, \"score\": 0.946}, {\"word\": \"餅\"}, {\"word\": \"第\", \"start\": 935.846, \"end\": 935.966, \"score\": 1.0}, {\"word\": \"一\", \"start\": 935.966, \"end\": 936.266, \"score\": 0.932}, {\"word\": \"個\"}, {\"word\": \"你\", \"start\": 936.266, \"end\": 936.406, \"score\": 0.859}, {\"word\": \"要\", \"start\": 936.406, \"end\": 936.426, \"score\": 0.693}], \"language\": \"zh\"}","srt":"1\n00:00:00,809 --> 00:00:26,300\n陳遠竹巡。好,謝謝劉院長。我們邀請行政院陳建能院長、農業部代理部長陳部長以及衛福部薛部長。\n\n2\n00:00:29,505 --> 00:00:48,264\n邱委員長委員長我想這次雞蛋的事件您稍早也做出道歉雖然來得有點晚不過我們還是肯定你的態度但是我們必須還是要非常嚴正的來面對這次的問題我想這次雞蛋的問題我們先就教目前這個院長\n\n3\n00:00:49,770 --> 00:00:50,531\n請問現在目前院長有沒有掌握這個最新的狀況\n\n4\n00:01:19,210 --> 00:01:31,320\n我想這一個任何的進口蛋如果把它標示為國產蛋這是不合法的啦然後應該要立刻的下架\n\n5\n00:01:32,608 --> 00:01:58,277\n所以你認為這個是業者的標示不實所以該罰就罰當然啦當時他們配合國家的政策在相關的剛剛農業部的代理部長有提到你們所謂的這個實質轉型這個是我們今年度聽到最奇葩的一個形容詞你們當時沸沸揚揚講雞蛋國家對但是我在這次進口蛋的專案看到的是不管是政府、廠商\n\n6\n00:01:59,177 --> 00:02:22,806\n還是說這個業者甚至是進口上的這個市場上的產銷的一個掌握都不足才會造成這樣這麼多的一個破洞第二個問題我們看到現在地方政府仍然自為根據嘉義市衛生局調查稽查的結果情義公司3月到5月已經從菲律賓土耳其美國跟泰國總共進口了200多萬顆殼蛋而且已經全部做成洗血蛋售出了\n\n7\n00:02:23,166 --> 00:02:44,324\n但是卻對外還是宣稱是本土蛋,這中間有沒有標示跟這個實際標示不符的一個狀況?跟委員報告,他所用的這個進口蛋實際上在政府專案進口之後,確實有23家的廠商也就自行進口,不是透過這個專案進口。\n\n8\n00:02:45,461 --> 00:02:45,481\n訊息\n\n9\n00:03:03,052 --> 00:03:07,796\n報告並備質詢。（9月24日（9月25日上午9時至10時為國是論壇時間。（9月26日（9月25日上午9時至10時為國是論壇時間。（9月26日（9月25日上午9時至10時為國是論壇時間。（9月26日上午9時至10時為國是論壇時間。（9月26日上午9時為國是論壇時間。（9月26日上午9時為國是論壇時間。（9月26日上午9時為國是論壇時間。（9月26日上午9時為國是論壇時間。（9月26日上午9時為國是論壇時間。（9月26日上午9時為\n\n10\n00:03:31,076 --> 00:03:31,116\n報告中﹗\n\n11\n00:03:59,742 --> 00:04:15,820\n當時一個50萬資本額的公司有辦法去進口8000多萬顆的雞蛋甚至是巴西的,中間的採購過程有沒有透明?相關的金流、合約的內容、相關專案進口的法源依據其實就是前言不對後語才造成這麼大的一個社會紛擾\n\n12\n00:04:16,641 --> 00:04:16,661\n報告\n\n13\n00:04:44,420 --> 00:05:02,468\n通過專案進口這是選擇我們沒有說他一定錯但是當時你們既然選擇這條路你就應該要掌握好相關國內國產蛋的一個產能包含這些如果要冷凍確實是有掌握有掌握不會那回到第二個問題三、四、五月的時候呢這個進口蛋呢\n\n14\n00:05:02,928 --> 00:05:03,328\n報告並備質詢。（9月23日）\n\n15\n00:05:22,336 --> 00:05:23,538\n回歸事實的本質現在確實就是有5400\n\n16\n00:05:38,855 --> 00:06:07,132\n二萬顆蛋必須要來去銷毀這也造成非常多的這個成本的損耗甚至有延伸到第三個問題是食安的問題現在這一些所謂的過期蛋有沒有淪入加工市場然後有沒有怎麼會沒有就新北市都已經查到了啊已經流到這些船上這個所有的剛才5402萬顆的蛋通通是這個是現在但是我說之前已經用掉的但是我現在必須要說現在造成的是民眾的恐慌啊\n\n17\n00:06:07,872 --> 00:06:12,517\n會不會造成恐慌的理由?怎麼會不會來我們看一下那個現在幾個\n\n18\n00:06:14,363 --> 00:06:42,033\n目前的幾個狀況,包含連鎖的港式餐廳現在傳多人傳出上吐下瀉,主動停賣滑蛋的餐點,院長我覺得我們要認真面對這個問題,第一個你們的這個政策已經造成民眾的恐慌了,現在大家出去,10屆老百姓我出去點餐我不敢點半熟蛋,我可能看到滑蛋的產品用到單一Bagery這些做麵包的做糕點的,甚至是現在中秋節要到了,\n\n19\n00:06:42,433 --> 00:07:07,350\n這是嚴重影響到消費者信心這個你必須要正視你有沒有辦法去把這個流向抓出來我要跟委員報告這一個進口的專案進口的這個蛋現在都已經沒有在市面上而且在專案進口的蛋液蛋的部分呢都是用來作為這個加工用或者現在已經冷凍儲存那這一些蛋絕對不會進入到市場\n\n20\n00:07:08,170 --> 00:07:26,873\n另外很重要的一個部分您剛才講到的這些食安上的一些問題我們要來確定說這些到底是不是用的是進口蛋因為台灣的蛋有2400萬顆每天其中進口蛋的銷售量是不到2%\n\n21\n00:07:28,214 --> 00:07:29,455\n報告並備質詢。（9月24日（9時至10時為國是論壇時間。\n\n22\n00:07:50,009 --> 00:07:50,549\n我現在我們在專案進口的過程中是到明年的6月底\n\n23\n00:08:20,699 --> 00:08:39,656\n我剛才也說了就是我們的庫存會根據我們國內的生產的這些量能而做所以你們現在不會再用殼蛋上架現在對現在8月到9月的部分大概進口大概有300多萬顆現在在海上大概是80萬顆那我們必須維持一個最低水位的安全庫存來預防\n\n24\n00:08:41,698 --> 00:08:47,599\n提到的就是未來我們這些現在包括未來進口的部分我們都會去進到所謂的加工用途的不會再用用殼蛋的方式去呈現到我們的賣場上面\n\n25\n00:09:10,315 --> 00:09:31,976\n那我想以後的如果說有專案進口的我認為應該要把它分類好如果是殼蛋進口應該就是原裝上架不應該再透過國內的加工第一個衍生成本第二個會造成食安的風險我想現在我院長我跟你講一個很實在的拉三門四郡的問題現在只要大家吃到雞蛋肚子不舒服都算你行政院的拉\n\n26\n00:09:32,617 --> 00:09:51,133\n因為大家沒有辦法去判斷這個到底有沒有混沌到這個是事實這個你必須要很嚴肅的面對你同意我這個講法嗎我同意尤其你剛才講的就是我剛才在報告也提到就是說未來如果從國外要專案進口殼蛋的話我們就在原廠就洗選完以後就完全本來就應該要這樣啊對\n\n27\n00:09:52,874 --> 00:10:20,940\n沒有,當時在緊急的情況下要讓8千多萬顆8千多萬顆的蛋要一次洗旋完再來的話在進口蛋的國家的選擇我個人會建議本席建議你們還是要以這個亞洲鄰近的國家傳奇短的為準你買到巴西去太遠了嘛當時只有巴西沒有禽流感沒有啦,當時這個泰國日本都有台商在幫忙但是泰國也是談了好久\n\n28\n00:10:21,420 --> 00:10:43,831\n那我們現在是以泰國跟澳洲為主要的輸入的國家?我想針對這次的教訓把它收整相關進口蛋的那個專案用途以及這個來源國的這個篩選我覺得這個要更明確然後在這相關的產銷的機制你說這些進口你們沒有其他的廠商進口你沒有辦法掌握但是洗選蛋的工廠或是有冷凍倉儲的這些廠商\n\n29\n00:10:45,572 --> 00:10:47,514\n我剛才的報告跟您講的是一樣我們說未來對於所有的進口蛋的部分呢會加強所有資訊的這個管控\n\n30\n00:11:08,872 --> 00:11:11,355\n市長我提供一個專業的建議如果現在全民國防\n\n31\n00:11:30,856 --> 00:11:50,613\n包含我們現在極端氣候百年疫情造成的現在的是現在逆全球化供應鏈的一個狀況其實糧食自主力就是我們一個國家安全層級的問題沒有錯包含雞蛋這次的事件告訴我們其實要用更上位的跨部會來去做相關國安糧食自主力的整合\n\n32\n00:11:51,013 --> 00:12:09,957\n所以不管是專案進口、國內生產、廠商應該要配合政府政令要明確不是互相甩鍋現在是怎麼樣農業部甩鍋給食藥署食藥署甩鍋給業者業者再甩鍋給工業部結果國家雞蛋國家隊變成甩鍋國家隊沒有甩鍋我跟委員報告我剛才的\n\n33\n00:12:10,277 --> 00:12:30,905\n警警的措施裡面也就提到的這一件事情為了使臺灣的雞蛋能夠的比較好的自主的生產我們會使所有的這個養雞廠的都能夠用水聯式的這一個密閉的這個一直都在做了但是對導的速度不夠快了對算每年也編很多了因為要也要地方政府來給那個許可證然後\n\n34\n00:12:31,505 --> 00:12:56,751\n因為他要改建的時候要許可證那你雞茶的這個部分還有流向的這個部分我們會建立相關的資訊體系我想政治的核心在執行力這本來就有業者、地方政府、中央政府配合上的一個問題所以如果行政院重視這件事要把他拉高到糧食自主力官的層級來去從這個案子來去做後面的精進措施包含其他的大宗物資跟糧食應該都要用這樣的狀況\n\n35\n00:12:57,771 --> 00:13:11,786\n最後我想中央續產會這次的角色非常重要陳其中前部長也辭職了那續產會的董事長也辭職了被戲稱說是避重就輕溜之大吉甚至是匆匆離去我們不做這樣的政治攻擊但是我們必須說這個對國會我個人在這邊表達抗議\n\n36\n00:13:15,109 --> 00:13:39,462\n在這個專案報告之前來去辭職迴避國會的監督其實這也是迴避民意的監督當然院長今天你有道歉這個我們也接受也尊重但是我們必須要講續場會的問題這次外界就看到續場會角色的問題也懷疑他的功能他是不是扮演上帝之手尤其這個前董事長林沖賢自己先心虛落跑包含這個進口廠商和林選的簽約供銷分配報廢雞蛋的處理\n\n37\n00:13:41,349 --> 00:14:05,828\n發覺他其實權力很大捏但是沒有辦法接受到國會的監督請問農業部針對這次的案子行政院有沒有考慮把續產會收回變成公務機關但他沒有辦法迴避監督我想續產會他本身是依照續末法而成立的那整個續產會的一個宗旨就做所謂的產銷的直接告訴我有沒有考慮收回行政院公務機關因為他現在等於我們監督不到\n\n38\n00:14:06,704 --> 00:14:09,627\n我們來評估續產會怎麼樣讓他的功能能夠更加的發揮而且對我就是要講這個\n\n39\n00:14:31,425 --> 00:14:31,665\n新聞新聞新聞新聞\n\n40\n00:14:46,807 --> 00:14:53,072\n這個部分提出一個改善報告給本席辦公室我們來看怎麼樣來改善兩個禮拜最後一個訴求很簡單因為現在5402萬顆蛋大家非常關心那尤其這次的銷毀可能有提到說會作為農業堆肥\n\n41\n00:15:03,941 --> 00:15:21,213\n請農業部我認為就是說在相關的銷毀的過程還有這個領選廠商包含後續招標公布得標的廠商相關的這個銷毀的過程必須要公開透明那也要提出一個銷毀的這個過程的一個報告請院長可以承諾兩週內提供\n\n42\n00:15:23,083 --> 00:15:36,426\n好我們來規劃這中間一定要公開透明不可以再有這個黑箱的部分我可以先跟委員報告我們昨天我們就要求的續產會未來針對這個庫存的蛋餅第一個你要\n\n","tsv":"start\tend\ttext\n809\t26300\t陳遠竹巡。好,謝謝劉院長。我們邀請行政院陳建能院長、農業部代理部長陳部長以及衛福部薛部長。\n29505\t48264\t邱委員長委員長我想這次雞蛋的事件您稍早也做出道歉雖然來得有點晚不過我們還是肯定你的態度但是我們必須還是要非常嚴正的來面對這次的問題我想這次雞蛋的問題我們先就教目前這個院長\n49770\t50531\t請問現在目前院長有沒有掌握這個最新的狀況\n79210\t91320\t我想這一個任何的進口蛋如果把它標示為國產蛋這是不合法的啦然後應該要立刻的下架\n92608\t118277\t所以你認為這個是業者的標示不實所以該罰就罰當然啦當時他們配合國家的政策在相關的剛剛農業部的代理部長有提到你們所謂的這個實質轉型這個是我們今年度聽到最奇葩的一個形容詞你們當時沸沸揚揚講雞蛋國家對但是我在這次進口蛋的專案看到的是不管是政府、廠商\n119177\t142806\t還是說這個業者甚至是進口上的這個市場上的產銷的一個掌握都不足才會造成這樣這麼多的一個破洞第二個問題我們看到現在地方政府仍然自為根據嘉義市衛生局調查稽查的結果情義公司3月到5月已經從菲律賓土耳其美國跟泰國總共進口了200多萬顆殼蛋而且已經全部做成洗血蛋售出了\n143166\t164324\t但是卻對外還是宣稱是本土蛋,這中間有沒有標示跟這個實際標示不符的一個狀況?跟委員報告,他所用的這個進口蛋實際上在政府專案進口之後,確實有23家的廠商也就自行進口,不是透過這個專案進口。\n165461\t165481\t訊息\n183052\t187796\t報告並備質詢。（9月24日（9月25日上午9時至10時為國是論壇時間。（9月26日（9月25日上午9時至10時為國是論壇時間。（9月26日（9月25日上午9時至10時為國是論壇時間。（9月26日上午9時至10時為國是論壇時間。（9月26日上午9時為國是論壇時間。（9月26日上午9時為國是論壇時間。（9月26日上午9時為國是論壇時間。（9月26日上午9時為國是論壇時間。（9月26日上午9時為國是論壇時間。（9月26日上午9時為\n211076\t211116\t報告中﹗\n239742\t255820\t當時一個50萬資本額的公司有辦法去進口8000多萬顆的雞蛋甚至是巴西的,中間的採購過程有沒有透明?相關的金流、合約的內容、相關專案進口的法源依據其實就是前言不對後語才造成這麼大的一個社會紛擾\n256641\t256661\t報告\n284420\t302468\t通過專案進口這是選擇我們沒有說他一定錯但是當時你們既然選擇這條路你就應該要掌握好相關國內國產蛋的一個產能包含這些如果要冷凍確實是有掌握有掌握不會那回到第二個問題三、四、五月的時候呢這個進口蛋呢\n302928\t303328\t報告並備質詢。（9月23日）\n322336\t323538\t回歸事實的本質現在確實就是有5400\n338855\t367132\t二萬顆蛋必須要來去銷毀這也造成非常多的這個成本的損耗甚至有延伸到第三個問題是食安的問題現在這一些所謂的過期蛋有沒有淪入加工市場然後有沒有怎麼會沒有就新北市都已經查到了啊已經流到這些船上這個所有的剛才5402萬顆的蛋通通是這個是現在但是我說之前已經用掉的但是我現在必須要說現在造成的是民眾的恐慌啊\n367872\t372517\t會不會造成恐慌的理由?怎麼會不會來我們看一下那個現在幾個\n374363\t402033\t目前的幾個狀況,包含連鎖的港式餐廳現在傳多人傳出上吐下瀉,主動停賣滑蛋的餐點,院長我覺得我們要認真面對這個問題,第一個你們的這個政策已經造成民眾的恐慌了,現在大家出去,10屆老百姓我出去點餐我不敢點半熟蛋,我可能看到滑蛋的產品用到單一Bagery這些做麵包的做糕點的,甚至是現在中秋節要到了,\n402433\t427350\t這是嚴重影響到消費者信心這個你必須要正視你有沒有辦法去把這個流向抓出來我要跟委員報告這一個進口的專案進口的這個蛋現在都已經沒有在市面上而且在專案進口的蛋液蛋的部分呢都是用來作為這個加工用或者現在已經冷凍儲存那這一些蛋絕對不會進入到市場\n428170\t446873\t另外很重要的一個部分您剛才講到的這些食安上的一些問題我們要來確定說這些到底是不是用的是進口蛋因為台灣的蛋有2400萬顆每天其中進口蛋的銷售量是不到2%\n448214\t449455\t報告並備質詢。（9月24日（9時至10時為國是論壇時間。\n470009\t470549\t我現在我們在專案進口的過程中是到明年的6月底\n500699\t519656\t我剛才也說了就是我們的庫存會根據我們國內的生產的這些量能而做所以你們現在不會再用殼蛋上架現在對現在8月到9月的部分大概進口大概有300多萬顆現在在海上大概是80萬顆那我們必須維持一個最低水位的安全庫存來預防\n521698\t527599\t提到的就是未來我們這些現在包括未來進口的部分我們都會去進到所謂的加工用途的不會再用用殼蛋的方式去呈現到我們的賣場上面\n550315\t571976\t那我想以後的如果說有專案進口的我認為應該要把它分類好如果是殼蛋進口應該就是原裝上架不應該再透過國內的加工第一個衍生成本第二個會造成食安的風險我想現在我院長我跟你講一個很實在的拉三門四郡的問題現在只要大家吃到雞蛋肚子不舒服都算你行政院的拉\n572617\t591133\t因為大家沒有辦法去判斷這個到底有沒有混沌到這個是事實這個你必須要很嚴肅的面對你同意我這個講法嗎我同意尤其你剛才講的就是我剛才在報告也提到就是說未來如果從國外要專案進口殼蛋的話我們就在原廠就洗選完以後就完全本來就應該要這樣啊對\n592874\t620940\t沒有,當時在緊急的情況下要讓8千多萬顆8千多萬顆的蛋要一次洗旋完再來的話在進口蛋的國家的選擇我個人會建議本席建議你們還是要以這個亞洲鄰近的國家傳奇短的為準你買到巴西去太遠了嘛當時只有巴西沒有禽流感沒有啦,當時這個泰國日本都有台商在幫忙但是泰國也是談了好久\n621420\t643831\t那我們現在是以泰國跟澳洲為主要的輸入的國家?我想針對這次的教訓把它收整相關進口蛋的那個專案用途以及這個來源國的這個篩選我覺得這個要更明確然後在這相關的產銷的機制你說這些進口你們沒有其他的廠商進口你沒有辦法掌握但是洗選蛋的工廠或是有冷凍倉儲的這些廠商\n645572\t647514\t我剛才的報告跟您講的是一樣我們說未來對於所有的進口蛋的部分呢會加強所有資訊的這個管控\n668872\t671355\t市長我提供一個專業的建議如果現在全民國防\n690856\t710613\t包含我們現在極端氣候百年疫情造成的現在的是現在逆全球化供應鏈的一個狀況其實糧食自主力就是我們一個國家安全層級的問題沒有錯包含雞蛋這次的事件告訴我們其實要用更上位的跨部會來去做相關國安糧食自主力的整合\n711013\t729957\t所以不管是專案進口、國內生產、廠商應該要配合政府政令要明確不是互相甩鍋現在是怎麼樣農業部甩鍋給食藥署食藥署甩鍋給業者業者再甩鍋給工業部結果國家雞蛋國家隊變成甩鍋國家隊沒有甩鍋我跟委員報告我剛才的\n730277\t750905\t警警的措施裡面也就提到的這一件事情為了使臺灣的雞蛋能夠的比較好的自主的生產我們會使所有的這個養雞廠的都能夠用水聯式的這一個密閉的這個一直都在做了但是對導的速度不夠快了對算每年也編很多了因為要也要地方政府來給那個許可證然後\n751505\t776751\t因為他要改建的時候要許可證那你雞茶的這個部分還有流向的這個部分我們會建立相關的資訊體系我想政治的核心在執行力這本來就有業者、地方政府、中央政府配合上的一個問題所以如果行政院重視這件事要把他拉高到糧食自主力官的層級來去從這個案子來去做後面的精進措施包含其他的大宗物資跟糧食應該都要用這樣的狀況\n777771\t791786\t最後我想中央續產會這次的角色非常重要陳其中前部長也辭職了那續產會的董事長也辭職了被戲稱說是避重就輕溜之大吉甚至是匆匆離去我們不做這樣的政治攻擊但是我們必須說這個對國會我個人在這邊表達抗議\n795109\t819462\t在這個專案報告之前來去辭職迴避國會的監督其實這也是迴避民意的監督當然院長今天你有道歉這個我們也接受也尊重但是我們必須要講續場會的問題這次外界就看到續場會角色的問題也懷疑他的功能他是不是扮演上帝之手尤其這個前董事長林沖賢自己先心虛落跑包含這個進口廠商和林選的簽約供銷分配報廢雞蛋的處理\n821349\t845828\t發覺他其實權力很大捏但是沒有辦法接受到國會的監督請問農業部針對這次的案子行政院有沒有考慮把續產會收回變成公務機關但他沒有辦法迴避監督我想續產會他本身是依照續末法而成立的那整個續產會的一個宗旨就做所謂的產銷的直接告訴我有沒有考慮收回行政院公務機關因為他現在等於我們監督不到\n846704\t849627\t我們來評估續產會怎麼樣讓他的功能能夠更加的發揮而且對我就是要講這個\n871425\t871665\t新聞新聞新聞新聞\n886807\t893072\t這個部分提出一個改善報告給本席辦公室我們來看怎麼樣來改善兩個禮拜最後一個訴求很簡單因為現在5402萬顆蛋大家非常關心那尤其這次的銷毀可能有提到說會作為農業堆肥\n903941\t921213\t請農業部我認為就是說在相關的銷毀的過程還有這個領選廠商包含後續招標公布得標的廠商相關的這個銷毀的過程必須要公開透明那也要提出一個銷毀的這個過程的一個報告請院長可以承諾兩週內提供\n923083\t936426\t好我們來規劃這中間一定要公開透明不可以再有這個黑箱的部分我可以先跟委員報告我們昨天我們就要求的續產會未來針對這個庫存的蛋餅第一個你要\n","txt":"陳遠竹巡。好,謝謝劉院長。我們邀請行政院陳建能院長、農業部代理部長陳部長以及衛福部薛部長。\n邱委員長委員長我想這次雞蛋的事件您稍早也做出道歉雖然來得有點晚不過我們還是肯定你的態度但是我們必須還是要非常嚴正的來面對這次的問題我想這次雞蛋的問題我們先就教目前這個院長\n請問現在目前院長有沒有掌握這個最新的狀況\n我想這一個任何的進口蛋如果把它標示為國產蛋這是不合法的啦然後應該要立刻的下架\n所以你認為這個是業者的標示不實所以該罰就罰當然啦當時他們配合國家的政策在相關的剛剛農業部的代理部長有提到你們所謂的這個實質轉型這個是我們今年度聽到最奇葩的一個形容詞你們當時沸沸揚揚講雞蛋國家對但是我在這次進口蛋的專案看到的是不管是政府、廠商\n還是說這個業者甚至是進口上的這個市場上的產銷的一個掌握都不足才會造成這樣這麼多的一個破洞第二個問題我們看到現在地方政府仍然自為根據嘉義市衛生局調查稽查的結果情義公司3月到5月已經從菲律賓土耳其美國跟泰國總共進口了200多萬顆殼蛋而且已經全部做成洗血蛋售出了\n但是卻對外還是宣稱是本土蛋,這中間有沒有標示跟這個實際標示不符的一個狀況?跟委員報告,他所用的這個進口蛋實際上在政府專案進口之後,確實有23家的廠商也就自行進口,不是透過這個專案進口。\n訊息\n報告並備質詢。（9月24日（9月25日上午9時至10時為國是論壇時間。（9月26日（9月25日上午9時至10時為國是論壇時間。（9月26日（9月25日上午9時至10時為國是論壇時間。（9月26日上午9時至10時為國是論壇時間。（9月26日上午9時為國是論壇時間。（9月26日上午9時為國是論壇時間。（9月26日上午9時為國是論壇時間。（9月26日上午9時為國是論壇時間。（9月26日上午9時為國是論壇時間。（9月26日上午9時為\n報告中﹗\n當時一個50萬資本額的公司有辦法去進口8000多萬顆的雞蛋甚至是巴西的,中間的採購過程有沒有透明?相關的金流、合約的內容、相關專案進口的法源依據其實就是前言不對後語才造成這麼大的一個社會紛擾\n報告\n通過專案進口這是選擇我們沒有說他一定錯但是當時你們既然選擇這條路你就應該要掌握好相關國內國產蛋的一個產能包含這些如果要冷凍確實是有掌握有掌握不會那回到第二個問題三、四、五月的時候呢這個進口蛋呢\n報告並備質詢。（9月23日）\n回歸事實的本質現在確實就是有5400\n二萬顆蛋必須要來去銷毀這也造成非常多的這個成本的損耗甚至有延伸到第三個問題是食安的問題現在這一些所謂的過期蛋有沒有淪入加工市場然後有沒有怎麼會沒有就新北市都已經查到了啊已經流到這些船上這個所有的剛才5402萬顆的蛋通通是這個是現在但是我說之前已經用掉的但是我現在必須要說現在造成的是民眾的恐慌啊\n會不會造成恐慌的理由?怎麼會不會來我們看一下那個現在幾個\n目前的幾個狀況,包含連鎖的港式餐廳現在傳多人傳出上吐下瀉,主動停賣滑蛋的餐點,院長我覺得我們要認真面對這個問題,第一個你們的這個政策已經造成民眾的恐慌了,現在大家出去,10屆老百姓我出去點餐我不敢點半熟蛋,我可能看到滑蛋的產品用到單一Bagery這些做麵包的做糕點的,甚至是現在中秋節要到了,\n這是嚴重影響到消費者信心這個你必須要正視你有沒有辦法去把這個流向抓出來我要跟委員報告這一個進口的專案進口的這個蛋現在都已經沒有在市面上而且在專案進口的蛋液蛋的部分呢都是用來作為這個加工用或者現在已經冷凍儲存那這一些蛋絕對不會進入到市場\n另外很重要的一個部分您剛才講到的這些食安上的一些問題我們要來確定說這些到底是不是用的是進口蛋因為台灣的蛋有2400萬顆每天其中進口蛋的銷售量是不到2%\n報告並備質詢。（9月24日（9時至10時為國是論壇時間。\n我現在我們在專案進口的過程中是到明年的6月底\n我剛才也說了就是我們的庫存會根據我們國內的生產的這些量能而做所以你們現在不會再用殼蛋上架現在對現在8月到9月的部分大概進口大概有300多萬顆現在在海上大概是80萬顆那我們必須維持一個最低水位的安全庫存來預防\n提到的就是未來我們這些現在包括未來進口的部分我們都會去進到所謂的加工用途的不會再用用殼蛋的方式去呈現到我們的賣場上面\n那我想以後的如果說有專案進口的我認為應該要把它分類好如果是殼蛋進口應該就是原裝上架不應該再透過國內的加工第一個衍生成本第二個會造成食安的風險我想現在我院長我跟你講一個很實在的拉三門四郡的問題現在只要大家吃到雞蛋肚子不舒服都算你行政院的拉\n因為大家沒有辦法去判斷這個到底有沒有混沌到這個是事實這個你必須要很嚴肅的面對你同意我這個講法嗎我同意尤其你剛才講的就是我剛才在報告也提到就是說未來如果從國外要專案進口殼蛋的話我們就在原廠就洗選完以後就完全本來就應該要這樣啊對\n沒有,當時在緊急的情況下要讓8千多萬顆8千多萬顆的蛋要一次洗旋完再來的話在進口蛋的國家的選擇我個人會建議本席建議你們還是要以這個亞洲鄰近的國家傳奇短的為準你買到巴西去太遠了嘛當時只有巴西沒有禽流感沒有啦,當時這個泰國日本都有台商在幫忙但是泰國也是談了好久\n那我們現在是以泰國跟澳洲為主要的輸入的國家?我想針對這次的教訓把它收整相關進口蛋的那個專案用途以及這個來源國的這個篩選我覺得這個要更明確然後在這相關的產銷的機制你說這些進口你們沒有其他的廠商進口你沒有辦法掌握但是洗選蛋的工廠或是有冷凍倉儲的這些廠商\n我剛才的報告跟您講的是一樣我們說未來對於所有的進口蛋的部分呢會加強所有資訊的這個管控\n市長我提供一個專業的建議如果現在全民國防\n包含我們現在極端氣候百年疫情造成的現在的是現在逆全球化供應鏈的一個狀況其實糧食自主力就是我們一個國家安全層級的問題沒有錯包含雞蛋這次的事件告訴我們其實要用更上位的跨部會來去做相關國安糧食自主力的整合\n所以不管是專案進口、國內生產、廠商應該要配合政府政令要明確不是互相甩鍋現在是怎麼樣農業部甩鍋給食藥署食藥署甩鍋給業者業者再甩鍋給工業部結果國家雞蛋國家隊變成甩鍋國家隊沒有甩鍋我跟委員報告我剛才的\n警警的措施裡面也就提到的這一件事情為了使臺灣的雞蛋能夠的比較好的自主的生產我們會使所有的這個養雞廠的都能夠用水聯式的這一個密閉的這個一直都在做了但是對導的速度不夠快了對算每年也編很多了因為要也要地方政府來給那個許可證然後\n因為他要改建的時候要許可證那你雞茶的這個部分還有流向的這個部分我們會建立相關的資訊體系我想政治的核心在執行力這本來就有業者、地方政府、中央政府配合上的一個問題所以如果行政院重視這件事要把他拉高到糧食自主力官的層級來去從這個案子來去做後面的精進措施包含其他的大宗物資跟糧食應該都要用這樣的狀況\n最後我想中央續產會這次的角色非常重要陳其中前部長也辭職了那續產會的董事長也辭職了被戲稱說是避重就輕溜之大吉甚至是匆匆離去我們不做這樣的政治攻擊但是我們必須說這個對國會我個人在這邊表達抗議\n在這個專案報告之前來去辭職迴避國會的監督其實這也是迴避民意的監督當然院長今天你有道歉這個我們也接受也尊重但是我們必須要講續場會的問題這次外界就看到續場會角色的問題也懷疑他的功能他是不是扮演上帝之手尤其這個前董事長林沖賢自己先心虛落跑包含這個進口廠商和林選的簽約供銷分配報廢雞蛋的處理\n發覺他其實權力很大捏但是沒有辦法接受到國會的監督請問農業部針對這次的案子行政院有沒有考慮把續產會收回變成公務機關但他沒有辦法迴避監督我想續產會他本身是依照續末法而成立的那整個續產會的一個宗旨就做所謂的產銷的直接告訴我有沒有考慮收回行政院公務機關因為他現在等於我們監督不到\n我們來評估續產會怎麼樣讓他的功能能夠更加的發揮而且對我就是要講這個\n新聞新聞新聞新聞\n這個部分提出一個改善報告給本席辦公室我們來看怎麼樣來改善兩個禮拜最後一個訴求很簡單因為現在5402萬顆蛋大家非常關心那尤其這次的銷毀可能有提到說會作為農業堆肥\n請農業部我認為就是說在相關的銷毀的過程還有這個領選廠商包含後續招標公布得標的廠商相關的這個銷毀的過程必須要公開透明那也要提出一個銷毀的這個過程的一個報告請院長可以承諾兩週內提供\n好我們來規劃這中間一定要公開透明不可以再有這個黑箱的部分我可以先跟委員報告我們昨天我們就要求的續產會未來針對這個庫存的蛋餅第一個你要\n","vtt":"WEBVTT\n\n00:00.809 --> 00:26.300\n陳遠竹巡。好,謝謝劉院長。我們邀請行政院陳建能院長、農業部代理部長陳部長以及衛福部薛部長。\n\n00:29.505 --> 00:48.264\n邱委員長委員長我想這次雞蛋的事件您稍早也做出道歉雖然來得有點晚不過我們還是肯定你的態度但是我們必須還是要非常嚴正的來面對這次的問題我想這次雞蛋的問題我們先就教目前這個院長\n\n00:49.770 --> 00:50.531\n請問現在目前院長有沒有掌握這個最新的狀況\n\n01:19.210 --> 01:31.320\n我想這一個任何的進口蛋如果把它標示為國產蛋這是不合法的啦然後應該要立刻的下架\n\n01:32.608 --> 01:58.277\n所以你認為這個是業者的標示不實所以該罰就罰當然啦當時他們配合國家的政策在相關的剛剛農業部的代理部長有提到你們所謂的這個實質轉型這個是我們今年度聽到最奇葩的一個形容詞你們當時沸沸揚揚講雞蛋國家對但是我在這次進口蛋的專案看到的是不管是政府、廠商\n\n01:59.177 --> 02:22.806\n還是說這個業者甚至是進口上的這個市場上的產銷的一個掌握都不足才會造成這樣這麼多的一個破洞第二個問題我們看到現在地方政府仍然自為根據嘉義市衛生局調查稽查的結果情義公司3月到5月已經從菲律賓土耳其美國跟泰國總共進口了200多萬顆殼蛋而且已經全部做成洗血蛋售出了\n\n02:23.166 --> 02:44.324\n但是卻對外還是宣稱是本土蛋,這中間有沒有標示跟這個實際標示不符的一個狀況?跟委員報告,他所用的這個進口蛋實際上在政府專案進口之後,確實有23家的廠商也就自行進口,不是透過這個專案進口。\n\n02:45.461 --> 02:45.481\n訊息\n\n03:03.052 --> 03:07.796\n報告並備質詢。（9月24日（9月25日上午9時至10時為國是論壇時間。（9月26日（9月25日上午9時至10時為國是論壇時間。（9月26日（9月25日上午9時至10時為國是論壇時間。（9月26日上午9時至10時為國是論壇時間。（9月26日上午9時為國是論壇時間。（9月26日上午9時為國是論壇時間。（9月26日上午9時為國是論壇時間。（9月26日上午9時為國是論壇時間。（9月26日上午9時為國是論壇時間。（9月26日上午9時為\n\n03:31.076 --> 03:31.116\n報告中﹗\n\n03:59.742 --> 04:15.820\n當時一個50萬資本額的公司有辦法去進口8000多萬顆的雞蛋甚至是巴西的,中間的採購過程有沒有透明?相關的金流、合約的內容、相關專案進口的法源依據其實就是前言不對後語才造成這麼大的一個社會紛擾\n\n04:16.641 --> 04:16.661\n報告\n\n04:44.420 --> 05:02.468\n通過專案進口這是選擇我們沒有說他一定錯但是當時你們既然選擇這條路你就應該要掌握好相關國內國產蛋的一個產能包含這些如果要冷凍確實是有掌握有掌握不會那回到第二個問題三、四、五月的時候呢這個進口蛋呢\n\n05:02.928 --> 05:03.328\n報告並備質詢。（9月23日）\n\n05:22.336 --> 05:23.538\n回歸事實的本質現在確實就是有5400\n\n05:38.855 --> 06:07.132\n二萬顆蛋必須要來去銷毀這也造成非常多的這個成本的損耗甚至有延伸到第三個問題是食安的問題現在這一些所謂的過期蛋有沒有淪入加工市場然後有沒有怎麼會沒有就新北市都已經查到了啊已經流到這些船上這個所有的剛才5402萬顆的蛋通通是這個是現在但是我說之前已經用掉的但是我現在必須要說現在造成的是民眾的恐慌啊\n\n06:07.872 --> 06:12.517\n會不會造成恐慌的理由?怎麼會不會來我們看一下那個現在幾個\n\n06:14.363 --> 06:42.033\n目前的幾個狀況,包含連鎖的港式餐廳現在傳多人傳出上吐下瀉,主動停賣滑蛋的餐點,院長我覺得我們要認真面對這個問題,第一個你們的這個政策已經造成民眾的恐慌了,現在大家出去,10屆老百姓我出去點餐我不敢點半熟蛋,我可能看到滑蛋的產品用到單一Bagery這些做麵包的做糕點的,甚至是現在中秋節要到了,\n\n06:42.433 --> 07:07.350\n這是嚴重影響到消費者信心這個你必須要正視你有沒有辦法去把這個流向抓出來我要跟委員報告這一個進口的專案進口的這個蛋現在都已經沒有在市面上而且在專案進口的蛋液蛋的部分呢都是用來作為這個加工用或者現在已經冷凍儲存那這一些蛋絕對不會進入到市場\n\n07:08.170 --> 07:26.873\n另外很重要的一個部分您剛才講到的這些食安上的一些問題我們要來確定說這些到底是不是用的是進口蛋因為台灣的蛋有2400萬顆每天其中進口蛋的銷售量是不到2%\n\n07:28.214 --> 07:29.455\n報告並備質詢。（9月24日（9時至10時為國是論壇時間。\n\n07:50.009 --> 07:50.549\n我現在我們在專案進口的過程中是到明年的6月底\n\n08:20.699 --> 08:39.656\n我剛才也說了就是我們的庫存會根據我們國內的生產的這些量能而做所以你們現在不會再用殼蛋上架現在對現在8月到9月的部分大概進口大概有300多萬顆現在在海上大概是80萬顆那我們必須維持一個最低水位的安全庫存來預防\n\n08:41.698 --> 08:47.599\n提到的就是未來我們這些現在包括未來進口的部分我們都會去進到所謂的加工用途的不會再用用殼蛋的方式去呈現到我們的賣場上面\n\n09:10.315 --> 09:31.976\n那我想以後的如果說有專案進口的我認為應該要把它分類好如果是殼蛋進口應該就是原裝上架不應該再透過國內的加工第一個衍生成本第二個會造成食安的風險我想現在我院長我跟你講一個很實在的拉三門四郡的問題現在只要大家吃到雞蛋肚子不舒服都算你行政院的拉\n\n09:32.617 --> 09:51.133\n因為大家沒有辦法去判斷這個到底有沒有混沌到這個是事實這個你必須要很嚴肅的面對你同意我這個講法嗎我同意尤其你剛才講的就是我剛才在報告也提到就是說未來如果從國外要專案進口殼蛋的話我們就在原廠就洗選完以後就完全本來就應該要這樣啊對\n\n09:52.874 --> 10:20.940\n沒有,當時在緊急的情況下要讓8千多萬顆8千多萬顆的蛋要一次洗旋完再來的話在進口蛋的國家的選擇我個人會建議本席建議你們還是要以這個亞洲鄰近的國家傳奇短的為準你買到巴西去太遠了嘛當時只有巴西沒有禽流感沒有啦,當時這個泰國日本都有台商在幫忙但是泰國也是談了好久\n\n10:21.420 --> 10:43.831\n那我們現在是以泰國跟澳洲為主要的輸入的國家?我想針對這次的教訓把它收整相關進口蛋的那個專案用途以及這個來源國的這個篩選我覺得這個要更明確然後在這相關的產銷的機制你說這些進口你們沒有其他的廠商進口你沒有辦法掌握但是洗選蛋的工廠或是有冷凍倉儲的這些廠商\n\n10:45.572 --> 10:47.514\n我剛才的報告跟您講的是一樣我們說未來對於所有的進口蛋的部分呢會加強所有資訊的這個管控\n\n11:08.872 --> 11:11.355\n市長我提供一個專業的建議如果現在全民國防\n\n11:30.856 --> 11:50.613\n包含我們現在極端氣候百年疫情造成的現在的是現在逆全球化供應鏈的一個狀況其實糧食自主力就是我們一個國家安全層級的問題沒有錯包含雞蛋這次的事件告訴我們其實要用更上位的跨部會來去做相關國安糧食自主力的整合\n\n11:51.013 --> 12:09.957\n所以不管是專案進口、國內生產、廠商應該要配合政府政令要明確不是互相甩鍋現在是怎麼樣農業部甩鍋給食藥署食藥署甩鍋給業者業者再甩鍋給工業部結果國家雞蛋國家隊變成甩鍋國家隊沒有甩鍋我跟委員報告我剛才的\n\n12:10.277 --> 12:30.905\n警警的措施裡面也就提到的這一件事情為了使臺灣的雞蛋能夠的比較好的自主的生產我們會使所有的這個養雞廠的都能夠用水聯式的這一個密閉的這個一直都在做了但是對導的速度不夠快了對算每年也編很多了因為要也要地方政府來給那個許可證然後\n\n12:31.505 --> 12:56.751\n因為他要改建的時候要許可證那你雞茶的這個部分還有流向的這個部分我們會建立相關的資訊體系我想政治的核心在執行力這本來就有業者、地方政府、中央政府配合上的一個問題所以如果行政院重視這件事要把他拉高到糧食自主力官的層級來去從這個案子來去做後面的精進措施包含其他的大宗物資跟糧食應該都要用這樣的狀況\n\n12:57.771 --> 13:11.786\n最後我想中央續產會這次的角色非常重要陳其中前部長也辭職了那續產會的董事長也辭職了被戲稱說是避重就輕溜之大吉甚至是匆匆離去我們不做這樣的政治攻擊但是我們必須說這個對國會我個人在這邊表達抗議\n\n13:15.109 --> 13:39.462\n在這個專案報告之前來去辭職迴避國會的監督其實這也是迴避民意的監督當然院長今天你有道歉這個我們也接受也尊重但是我們必須要講續場會的問題這次外界就看到續場會角色的問題也懷疑他的功能他是不是扮演上帝之手尤其這個前董事長林沖賢自己先心虛落跑包含這個進口廠商和林選的簽約供銷分配報廢雞蛋的處理\n\n13:41.349 --> 14:05.828\n發覺他其實權力很大捏但是沒有辦法接受到國會的監督請問農業部針對這次的案子行政院有沒有考慮把續產會收回變成公務機關但他沒有辦法迴避監督我想續產會他本身是依照續末法而成立的那整個續產會的一個宗旨就做所謂的產銷的直接告訴我有沒有考慮收回行政院公務機關因為他現在等於我們監督不到\n\n14:06.704 --> 14:09.627\n我們來評估續產會怎麼樣讓他的功能能夠更加的發揮而且對我就是要講這個\n\n14:31.425 --> 14:31.665\n新聞新聞新聞新聞\n\n14:46.807 --> 14:53.072\n這個部分提出一個改善報告給本席辦公室我們來看怎麼樣來改善兩個禮拜最後一個訴求很簡單因為現在5402萬顆蛋大家非常關心那尤其這次的銷毀可能有提到說會作為農業堆肥\n\n15:03.941 --> 15:21.213\n請農業部我認為就是說在相關的銷毀的過程還有這個領選廠商包含後續招標公布得標的廠商相關的這個銷毀的過程必須要公開透明那也要提出一個銷毀的這個過程的一個報告請院長可以承諾兩週內提供\n\n15:23.083 --> 15:36.426\n好我們來規劃這中間一定要公開透明不可以再有這個黑箱的部分我可以先跟委員報告我們昨天我們就要求的續產會未來針對這個庫存的蛋餅第一個你要\n\n","segments":[{"start":0.809,"end":26.3,"text":"陳遠竹巡。好,謝謝劉院長。我們邀請行政院陳建能院長、農業部代理部長陳部長以及衛福部薛部長。"},{"start":29.505,"end":48.264,"text":"邱委員長委員長我想這次雞蛋的事件您稍早也做出道歉雖然來得有點晚不過我們還是肯定你的態度但是我們必須還是要非常嚴正的來面對這次的問題我想這次雞蛋的問題我們先就教目前這個院長"},{"start":49.77,"end":50.531,"text":"請問現在目前院長有沒有掌握這個最新的狀況"},{"start":79.21,"end":91.32,"text":"我想這一個任何的進口蛋如果把它標示為國產蛋這是不合法的啦然後應該要立刻的下架"},{"start":92.608,"end":118.277,"text":"所以你認為這個是業者的標示不實所以該罰就罰當然啦當時他們配合國家的政策在相關的剛剛農業部的代理部長有提到你們所謂的這個實質轉型這個是我們今年度聽到最奇葩的一個形容詞你們當時沸沸揚揚講雞蛋國家對但是我在這次進口蛋的專案看到的是不管是政府、廠商"},{"start":119.177,"end":142.806,"text":"還是說這個業者甚至是進口上的這個市場上的產銷的一個掌握都不足才會造成這樣這麼多的一個破洞第二個問題我們看到現在地方政府仍然自為根據嘉義市衛生局調查稽查的結果情義公司3月到5月已經從菲律賓土耳其美國跟泰國總共進口了200多萬顆殼蛋而且已經全部做成洗血蛋售出了"},{"start":143.166,"end":164.324,"text":"但是卻對外還是宣稱是本土蛋,這中間有沒有標示跟這個實際標示不符的一個狀況?跟委員報告,他所用的這個進口蛋實際上在政府專案進口之後,確實有23家的廠商也就自行進口,不是透過這個專案進口。"},{"start":165.461,"end":165.481,"text":"訊息"},{"start":183.052,"end":187.796,"text":"報告並備質詢。（9月24日（9月25日上午9時至10時為國是論壇時間。（9月26日（9月25日上午9時至10時為國是論壇時間。（9月26日（9月25日上午9時至10時為國是論壇時間。（9月26日上午9時至10時為國是論壇時間。（9月26日上午9時為國是論壇時間。（9月26日上午9時為國是論壇時間。（9月26日上午9時為國是論壇時間。（9月26日上午9時為國是論壇時間。（9月26日上午9時為國是論壇時間。（9月26日上午9時為"},{"start":211.076,"end":211.116,"text":"報告中﹗"},{"start":239.742,"end":255.82,"text":"當時一個50萬資本額的公司有辦法去進口8000多萬顆的雞蛋甚至是巴西的,中間的採購過程有沒有透明?相關的金流、合約的內容、相關專案進口的法源依據其實就是前言不對後語才造成這麼大的一個社會紛擾"},{"start":256.641,"end":256.661,"text":"報告"},{"start":284.42,"end":302.468,"text":"通過專案進口這是選擇我們沒有說他一定錯但是當時你們既然選擇這條路你就應該要掌握好相關國內國產蛋的一個產能包含這些如果要冷凍確實是有掌握有掌握不會那回到第二個問題三、四、五月的時候呢這個進口蛋呢"},{"start":302.928,"end":303.328,"text":"報告並備質詢。（9月23日）"},{"start":322.336,"end":323.538,"text":"回歸事實的本質現在確實就是有5400"},{"start":338.855,"end":367.132,"text":"二萬顆蛋必須要來去銷毀這也造成非常多的這個成本的損耗甚至有延伸到第三個問題是食安的問題現在這一些所謂的過期蛋有沒有淪入加工市場然後有沒有怎麼會沒有就新北市都已經查到了啊已經流到這些船上這個所有的剛才5402萬顆的蛋通通是這個是現在但是我說之前已經用掉的但是我現在必須要說現在造成的是民眾的恐慌啊"},{"start":367.872,"end":372.517,"text":"會不會造成恐慌的理由?怎麼會不會來我們看一下那個現在幾個"},{"start":374.363,"end":402.033,"text":"目前的幾個狀況,包含連鎖的港式餐廳現在傳多人傳出上吐下瀉,主動停賣滑蛋的餐點,院長我覺得我們要認真面對這個問題,第一個你們的這個政策已經造成民眾的恐慌了,現在大家出去,10屆老百姓我出去點餐我不敢點半熟蛋,我可能看到滑蛋的產品用到單一Bagery這些做麵包的做糕點的,甚至是現在中秋節要到了,"},{"start":402.433,"end":427.35,"text":"這是嚴重影響到消費者信心這個你必須要正視你有沒有辦法去把這個流向抓出來我要跟委員報告這一個進口的專案進口的這個蛋現在都已經沒有在市面上而且在專案進口的蛋液蛋的部分呢都是用來作為這個加工用或者現在已經冷凍儲存那這一些蛋絕對不會進入到市場"},{"start":428.17,"end":446.873,"text":"另外很重要的一個部分您剛才講到的這些食安上的一些問題我們要來確定說這些到底是不是用的是進口蛋因為台灣的蛋有2400萬顆每天其中進口蛋的銷售量是不到2%"},{"start":448.214,"end":449.455,"text":"報告並備質詢。（9月24日（9時至10時為國是論壇時間。"},{"start":470.009,"end":470.549,"text":"我現在我們在專案進口的過程中是到明年的6月底"},{"start":500.699,"end":519.656,"text":"我剛才也說了就是我們的庫存會根據我們國內的生產的這些量能而做所以你們現在不會再用殼蛋上架現在對現在8月到9月的部分大概進口大概有300多萬顆現在在海上大概是80萬顆那我們必須維持一個最低水位的安全庫存來預防"},{"start":521.698,"end":527.599,"text":"提到的就是未來我們這些現在包括未來進口的部分我們都會去進到所謂的加工用途的不會再用用殼蛋的方式去呈現到我們的賣場上面"},{"start":550.315,"end":571.976,"text":"那我想以後的如果說有專案進口的我認為應該要把它分類好如果是殼蛋進口應該就是原裝上架不應該再透過國內的加工第一個衍生成本第二個會造成食安的風險我想現在我院長我跟你講一個很實在的拉三門四郡的問題現在只要大家吃到雞蛋肚子不舒服都算你行政院的拉"},{"start":572.617,"end":591.133,"text":"因為大家沒有辦法去判斷這個到底有沒有混沌到這個是事實這個你必須要很嚴肅的面對你同意我這個講法嗎我同意尤其你剛才講的就是我剛才在報告也提到就是說未來如果從國外要專案進口殼蛋的話我們就在原廠就洗選完以後就完全本來就應該要這樣啊對"},{"start":592.874,"end":620.94,"text":"沒有,當時在緊急的情況下要讓8千多萬顆8千多萬顆的蛋要一次洗旋完再來的話在進口蛋的國家的選擇我個人會建議本席建議你們還是要以這個亞洲鄰近的國家傳奇短的為準你買到巴西去太遠了嘛當時只有巴西沒有禽流感沒有啦,當時這個泰國日本都有台商在幫忙但是泰國也是談了好久"},{"start":621.42,"end":643.831,"text":"那我們現在是以泰國跟澳洲為主要的輸入的國家?我想針對這次的教訓把它收整相關進口蛋的那個專案用途以及這個來源國的這個篩選我覺得這個要更明確然後在這相關的產銷的機制你說這些進口你們沒有其他的廠商進口你沒有辦法掌握但是洗選蛋的工廠或是有冷凍倉儲的這些廠商"},{"start":645.572,"end":647.514,"text":"我剛才的報告跟您講的是一樣我們說未來對於所有的進口蛋的部分呢會加強所有資訊的這個管控"},{"start":668.872,"end":671.355,"text":"市長我提供一個專業的建議如果現在全民國防"},{"start":690.856,"end":710.613,"text":"包含我們現在極端氣候百年疫情造成的現在的是現在逆全球化供應鏈的一個狀況其實糧食自主力就是我們一個國家安全層級的問題沒有錯包含雞蛋這次的事件告訴我們其實要用更上位的跨部會來去做相關國安糧食自主力的整合"},{"start":711.013,"end":729.957,"text":"所以不管是專案進口、國內生產、廠商應該要配合政府政令要明確不是互相甩鍋現在是怎麼樣農業部甩鍋給食藥署食藥署甩鍋給業者業者再甩鍋給工業部結果國家雞蛋國家隊變成甩鍋國家隊沒有甩鍋我跟委員報告我剛才的"},{"start":730.277,"end":750.905,"text":"警警的措施裡面也就提到的這一件事情為了使臺灣的雞蛋能夠的比較好的自主的生產我們會使所有的這個養雞廠的都能夠用水聯式的這一個密閉的這個一直都在做了但是對導的速度不夠快了對算每年也編很多了因為要也要地方政府來給那個許可證然後"},{"start":751.505,"end":776.751,"text":"因為他要改建的時候要許可證那你雞茶的這個部分還有流向的這個部分我們會建立相關的資訊體系我想政治的核心在執行力這本來就有業者、地方政府、中央政府配合上的一個問題所以如果行政院重視這件事要把他拉高到糧食自主力官的層級來去從這個案子來去做後面的精進措施包含其他的大宗物資跟糧食應該都要用這樣的狀況"},{"start":777.771,"end":791.786,"text":"最後我想中央續產會這次的角色非常重要陳其中前部長也辭職了那續產會的董事長也辭職了被戲稱說是避重就輕溜之大吉甚至是匆匆離去我們不做這樣的政治攻擊但是我們必須說這個對國會我個人在這邊表達抗議"},{"start":795.109,"end":819.462,"text":"在這個專案報告之前來去辭職迴避國會的監督其實這也是迴避民意的監督當然院長今天你有道歉這個我們也接受也尊重但是我們必須要講續場會的問題這次外界就看到續場會角色的問題也懷疑他的功能他是不是扮演上帝之手尤其這個前董事長林沖賢自己先心虛落跑包含這個進口廠商和林選的簽約供銷分配報廢雞蛋的處理"},{"start":821.349,"end":845.828,"text":"發覺他其實權力很大捏但是沒有辦法接受到國會的監督請問農業部針對這次的案子行政院有沒有考慮把續產會收回變成公務機關但他沒有辦法迴避監督我想續產會他本身是依照續末法而成立的那整個續產會的一個宗旨就做所謂的產銷的直接告訴我有沒有考慮收回行政院公務機關因為他現在等於我們監督不到"},{"start":846.704,"end":849.627,"text":"我們來評估續產會怎麼樣讓他的功能能夠更加的發揮而且對我就是要講這個"},{"start":871.425,"end":871.665,"text":"新聞新聞新聞新聞"},{"start":886.807,"end":893.072,"text":"這個部分提出一個改善報告給本席辦公室我們來看怎麼樣來改善兩個禮拜最後一個訴求很簡單因為現在5402萬顆蛋大家非常關心那尤其這次的銷毀可能有提到說會作為農業堆肥"},{"start":903.941,"end":921.213,"text":"請農業部我認為就是說在相關的銷毀的過程還有這個領選廠商包含後續招標公布得標的廠商相關的這個銷毀的過程必須要公開透明那也要提出一個銷毀的這個過程的一個報告請院長可以承諾兩週內提供"},{"start":923.083,"end":936.426,"text":"好我們來規劃這中間一定要公開透明不可以再有這個黑箱的部分我可以先跟委員報告我們昨天我們就要求的續產會未來針對這個庫存的蛋餅第一個你要"}]}}}}