{"id":149102,"url":"https://ivod.ly.gov.tw/Play/Clip/1M/149102","video_url":"https://ivod-lyvod.cdn.hinet.net/vod_1/_definst_/mp4:1MClips/20dc639cdbf6214fccb8b8815585ed3b659e523f497a2948f8ba9b0039caa7a63e63146d6c8f82985ea18f28b6918d91.mp4/playlist.m3u8","委員名稱":"賴香伶","委員發言時間":"14:30:38 - 14:46:37","影片長度":"00:15:59","會議時間":"2023-09-22T09:00:00+08:00","會議名稱":"第10屆第8會期第1次會議（事由：一、行政院院長提出有關農業部辦理專案進口雞蛋相關事項專案報告並備質詢。（9月22日）\n二、行政院院長提出登革熱防治相關事宜專案報告並備質詢。（9月23日）\n三、行政院院長施政報告並備質詢。（9月26日）\n四、9月22日上午9時至10時為國是論壇時間。）","meet":{"tmpMeeting":null,"title":"立法院第10屆第8會期第1次會議","id":"院會-10-8-1","type":"院會","term":10,"sessionPeriod":8,"sessionTimes":1},"date":"2023-09-22","duration":959,"end_time":"2023-09-22T14:46:37+08:00","start_time":"2023-09-22T14:30:38+08:00","features":["ai-transcript","gazette"],"type":"Clip","gazette":{"lineno":2,"blocks":[["賴委員香伶：（14時31分）謝謝院長，我請陳建仁院長。"],["主席：院長請。"],["賴委員香伶：還有陳駿季代理部長。"],["主席：陳代理部長請。"],["賴委員香伶：還有衛福部薛部長。"],["主席：薛部長請。"],["陳院長建仁：賴委員午安。"],["賴委員香伶：辛苦了！"],["陳代理部長駿季：委員好。"],["賴委員香伶：我們終於盼到針對蛋的各個政治議題風暴來跟您質詢，早上我聽了很多委員都問了相關的議題，但是有幾個關鍵的議題到現在國人還是搞不明白，到底我們在農業部也好，在院裡面的立場、態度是什麼？首先就教早上邱臣遠總召他問到畜牧司的司長親自否認，他說昨天到我們黨團去做專案報告說明的時候，他對於他的發言好像說被本黨曲解。我想就教一下部長，您昨天有授權次長還有司長到民眾黨團去做報告嗎？"],["陳代理部長駿季：跟委員報告，當時我本來是應該去的，但因為我在行政院還有會議，所以那時候請我們的杜次長……"],["賴委員香伶：所以你有授權他們去？"],["陳代理部長駿季：我們請杜次長和我們的經緯司長去。"],["賴委員香伶：這份報告是他們提供給我們黨團的您知道吧！有經過您審閱嗎？"],["陳代理部長駿季：如果是我們農業部的，應該就是。"],["賴委員香伶：他說這個是精進措施報告，跟今天的院長報告雷同，這裡面就確實講到你們要精進的部分，所以他談到的是說可能進口調控不對、冷鏈不足，這有什麼錯嗎？這樣的分析問題跟定調有說錯話嗎？"],["陳代理部長駿季：我昨天……"],["賴委員香伶：為什麼他要出來說他沒說過這個話？我覺得對你們自己同仁的專業性您也要尊重啦！"],["陳代理部長駿季：對，我昨天詢問了我們同仁，我們同仁也確定說他沒有說這句話，因為他……"],["賴委員香伶：他有沒有說看文字就知道，你們自己的報告寫得很清楚，所以今天我們在講，你們如果要檢討、跟國人誠實以對，到底這次進口蛋是不是急就章？是不是很多地方出了問題？這件事情為什麼一個司長說話他會受到這麼大的壓力，還要否認呢？"],["陳院長建仁：我想……"],["賴委員香伶：到黨團來報告也是據實以告，所以這是第一個，我希望你們不要因為他說這個話就把他調職，請問現在要把他調到哪裡去？"],["陳代理部長駿季：我想我們在內部檢討的時候，早上已經說過了，就是在整個政策效益上來講是沒問題的，但是在執行過程中，因為是第一次……"],["賴委員香伶：政策效益現在國人沒有在質疑你們，但是整個進口的決策、過程到現在爆出來的問題誰來面對？提出的檢討報告，包括精進就是你們寫的啊！"],["陳代理部長駿季：對，所以我們……"],["賴委員香伶：你說進口的調控量出問題有錯嗎？"],["陳代理部長駿季：我想進口的調控量我們當初的規劃是針對當時雞蛋缺口，然後……"],["賴委員香伶：我已經聽過院長講，院長今天講得非常清楚，6月之後我們很多的復業等等的量出來就造成你們現在有多出來或怎麼樣嘛，這你早上已經講過時序了。"],["陳院長建仁：對啊！"],["賴委員香伶：可是我們現在追問的是大家對於進口蛋的流量本身、流向本身公開透明這件事情，部裡面到現在也沒有給大家公開的答案啊！"],["陳院長建仁：有，我跟委員講，我們對外有公開，陳前部長的時候就已經有講，但是當時沒有把洗選場的名字公布，因為這些……但是我們後來有給各個地方政府。"],["賴委員香伶：院長，您知道勤億這家蛋品公司在臺灣算是蛋品業的龍頭嗎？"],["陳院長建仁：我知道有這家公司。"],["賴委員香伶：好，這家公司有沒有買到進口的巴西蛋您知道嗎？"],["陳院長建仁：有，最主要的是蛋我們雖然有專案進口，但是他們也可以自己進口。"],["賴委員香伶：它標示說它百分之百都是國產蛋，這件事情你們何時知道的？"],["陳代理部長駿季：我們是看到媒體報導才知道的。"],["賴委員香伶：你們後知後覺到這個程度喔！人家一個龍頭產業……"],["陳院長建仁：但是它是自己進口的蛋，它是自己進口的蛋。"],["賴委員香伶：它是自己進口的蛋，好，所以沒有經過你們畜產會去配發那八千多萬顆？所以它自己進口？"],["陳代理部長駿季：我跟委員報告，勤億蛋品裡面，我們畜產會釋出有兩種，一種就是我們委託它代工，大概168噸左右。"],["賴委員香伶：是。"],["陳代理部長駿季：第二個部分是我們也有釋出給它做加工相關的液蛋，那這個部分當然是一百……"],["賴委員香伶：所以你早就知道它本來就有進口巴西蛋？"],["陳代理部長駿季：就是我們有提供巴西的進口蛋給它……"],["賴委員香伶：你們透過畜產會轉給它，你們也知道；它自己可能也去採買，你也知道，結果這家公司說它百分之百是國產蛋，還用聲明大剌剌在自己的官網上去做標示，要增加國人對它的信用，結果信用破產啊！"],["陳院長建仁：我們專案進口的部分都有跟它說明得很清楚……"],["賴委員香伶：是，所以早上院長你有說……"],["陳院長建仁：但是它自己進口的部分，它要怎麼樣來標示，那是廠商自己要負它的商譽……"],["賴委員香伶：好，你認為它要自己本於良心嘛……"],["陳院長建仁：對。"],["賴委員香伶：但是它今天聲稱它的蛋都是百分之百國產。院長，你早上有說要開罰，用什麼法來罰它啊？誰來罰？你要怎麼罰啊？標示不實、欺騙大眾，還是欺上瞞下？到底用什麼法罰，院長？"],["陳院長建仁：標示錯誤嘛。"],["薛部長瑞元：對。"],["賴委員香伶：哪一個？"],["薛部長瑞元：標示錯誤，是食安法。"],["賴委員香伶：用食安法來處罰標示錯誤，所以它自己聲稱的，然後它把官網百分之百國產的聲明下架了，這樣子，你們罪證不見了，怎麼辦？"],["薛部長瑞元：委員都有看到，罪證還在啊。"],["陳院長建仁：對呀。"],["賴委員香伶：所以我算自己舉發嘛，所以就看……"],["薛部長瑞元：地方政府會去開罰。"],["賴委員香伶：是食安署這邊會做處理？"],["陳院長建仁：地方政府。"],["薛部長瑞元：地方政府會去開罰。"],["賴委員香伶：地方政府去處理，所以是嘉義市政府？"],["薛部長瑞元：是。"],["賴委員香伶：請你們責成他們儘速處理，不應該藉這個時候，又造成一個官方的困擾。你們剛剛明明講它有取得巴西蛋，它也自己可能採買，自己去聲稱百分百的國產，是為什麼？就是最近大家擔心好像混到蛋了，所以它自己出來自清，結果一自清，自己露餡。所以拜託，薛部長，這件事就交給你來處理，責成地方政府來確實處理。","第二個是新北市這次有查到蛋液的部分，也是一樣，就是說要標示成為臺灣這件事情，是依我們食藥署相關的法制規範去做標示的，對嗎？"],["薛部長瑞元：我們……這個是它的標示有……"],["賴委員香伶：你怎麼忘了你們打臉了農業部，你忘了？"],["薛部長瑞元：不是、不是，剛剛委員講的是它是已經標示錯誤了嗎？"],["賴委員香伶：它不是標示錯誤，它本來是蛋液，蛋液裡面混了巴西蛋，這個時候你們農業部跟廠商講說這個叫做實質轉型的概念，所以可以標示成臺灣，結果被我們食安署的法規一查，發現錯誤，所以6、7月你們才叫這3家廠商要改成不能標示為臺灣，對不對？這件事情到目前兩位部長竟然一直看我……"],["陳院長建仁：這個和……"],["賴委員香伶：表示你們對內情完全不熟耶！是不是這樣子？"],["陳院長建仁：不是、不是，等一下、等一下，委員，你的資訊有錯，來！"],["陳代理部長駿季：我跟委員報告……"],["賴委員香伶：好，你重新說一遍！"],["陳代理部長駿季：我們所有的蛋是由我們畜產會委託加工廠代工成為液蛋，在6月間的時候，畜產會的同仁他誤解了法規，以為它就是一個實質轉型的產品，所以就跟代工廠說可以標示為……"],["賴委員香伶：所以畜產會跟他們講，你們也承認了，對不對？"],["陳代理部長駿季：對，但是只針對我們委託代工的部分，而這個產品、所有的產品最後代工完成都回到我們畜產會的倉庫裡面去，所以並沒有釋出，這是第一個部分。第二個部分，我們7月26號……"],["賴委員香伶：好，沒有釋出是一件事情，回到前面的程序，畜產會曲解法令，還是過去約定成俗，還是根本就是隨便指導業者？到底是哪一件？"],["陳代理部長駿季：我想相關實質轉型的相關法規有很多個要點，其中有一個要點是，只要它過往進口的時候有前面六位數的稅則號列不一樣的話，就可以當作實質轉型，但是它忽略了下面還有一些但書，它沒有注意到但書，所以感覺上說就可以當作事實轉型。"],["賴委員香伶：那誰發現的？誰認為這個錯誤，然後糾正的？是誰？"],["陳代理部長駿季：這個部分就是，那時候好像衛生署有去了解的時候……"],["賴委員香伶：查驗。"],["陳代理部長駿季：我們去請教衛生署本身這樣是錯的、是不對的，所以我們在7月26號立即跟加工廠說後續我們委託代工的部分，一定要回歸到巴西的這個標示，那已經標示的部分……"],["賴委員香伶：業者現在心寒，他說他是依農業部提供的方式來做標示的……"],["陳代理部長駿季：對，當初的代工是這樣子。"],["賴委員香伶：你們兩方要對簿公堂，還是怎麼樣？"],["陳代理部長駿季：對，當初的代工是這樣子，但是所有的蛋都全部在我們的畜產會裡面，並沒有釋出，這是非常重要的。"],["賴委員香伶：我沒有在問你釋出與否……"],["陳院長建仁：它沒有釋出。"],["賴委員香伶：我在問你標示為臺灣這件事情的前提，你說因為序號前面六位數，大家都以為可以……"],["陳代理部長駿季：對。"],["賴委員香伶：但是沒有看到但書，這件事情現在查到後來，竟然是有人去請教了食藥署相關的法規……"],["陳代理部長駿季：是我們請教的。"],["賴委員香伶：相關的法規嘛！所以農業部之前是知道還是不知道？"],["陳代理部長駿季：我們在7月差不多26號之前後幾天知道了以後，我們就馬上通知代工廠說不可以再繼續標臺灣，因為我們對法令的曲解，就是誤解。"],["賴委員香伶：所以不是農業部明明知道這個是錯誤的……"],["陳代理部長駿季：不是。"],["賴委員香伶：放任它……"],["陳代理部長駿季：不是，我們一開始……"],["賴委員香伶：反而是你們查到之後……"],["陳代理部長駿季：對，所以不是我們故意去造假……"],["賴委員香伶：沒有認真做……"],["陳代理部長駿季：對，我們是當初的同仁……"],["賴委員香伶：然後你們背黑鍋，是這樣嗎？"],["陳代理部長駿季：是我們當中的同仁本身，因為是自己的產品委託代工，然後誤解了這樣的一個法令，然後就叫它標示臺灣，這個產品還是我們的，所以回到我們畜產會裡面的倉庫，後來發現了以後，我們就跟代工廠講，因為衛福部的解釋是不可以標示為臺灣，應該還是標示為巴西，那後續的這些代工的產品，我們還是改成……"],["賴委員香伶：會不會再發生這種事？一個序號看了前面、後面可以看到，但書不看，有這種政府官員？畜產會的人專業度在哪裡？怎麼會讓你們背鍋？"],["陳代理部長駿季：所以這個是我們內部正在檢討的地方。"],["賴委員香伶：還是明明是倒過來的？你們根本就是用混的，變成是標示臺灣，增加大家的信心，還是實質轉型，我請教薛部長，因為我早上有問了，實質轉型這4個字，我不知道白話文怎麼解釋？"],["薛部長瑞元：這個不算實質轉型，因為它還是蛋、還是液蛋，這一個東西的話都是生的嘛！"],["賴委員香伶：可是這個行之多年之下會不會早就已經是這樣子了？"],["薛部長瑞元：沒有、沒有。"],["賴委員香伶：陳代理部長？"],["薛部長瑞元：多年之前就已經規定是這樣子了。"],["賴委員香伶：所以說往前查，如果人家業者說這個是農業部的指示去做的，天啊，你們要罰業者、要罰這3家嗎？永成蛋液、吳記蛋品及勝翔蛋品，你們要罰它嗎？現在。"],["薛部長瑞元：如果說它已經到市場上面的話，那就可能會受罰，因為已經……"],["賴委員香伶：造成後果的可能要罰，那現在沒有出來，都在你們的倉庫裡面，所以可以當作犯行沒有發生……"],["陳院長建仁：我們更改……"],["陳代理部長駿季：未來如果業者因為我們錯誤的告知，那我想我們會本於畜產會的原來的一個錯誤，我們會跟當地裁罰的單位去做這樣的一個陳述。"],["賴委員香伶：所以你們會讓他們3家免罰，但是畜產會自己要被罰，是這樣嗎？"],["陳代理部長駿季：沒有，如果該罰……"],["賴委員香伶：因為這3家業者聽你們指示……"],["陳代理部長駿季：我們會負責任，我們一定會負責任。"],["賴委員香伶：畜產會自己做的錯誤，院長，你一直點頭嘛！這件事情總要有人負個責任，好不好？不能讓它變成是羅生門。"],["陳院長建仁：對，畜產會的同仁要負責任……"],["賴委員香伶：畜產會可能要受罰？"],["陳院長建仁：但是我們也了解他在一個緊急的狀況下，他自己只看了前面，沒有顧慮到這個註解的地方，所以這是有瑕疵的，但是我們也能夠體會他在緊急狀況下所做出來的這個錯誤的說法。"],["賴委員香伶：好，拜託，現在大家看，不管是部長走了、董事長走了、司長走了，在座3位還是責任重大，肩膀扛一下，該要懲處、該要確實檢討的就請你們一併扛起來。"],["陳院長建仁：這個我在早上的報告已經說得很清楚，在精進的措施當中，我們會這樣來做。"],["賴委員香伶：好，謝謝，2位部長請回。","我請法務部長，我想請看一下PPT，第一個、我想請教院長，你知道高雄市岡山區的岡榮路150巷10號這個地方是什麼單位嗎？"],["陳院長建仁：不曉得。"],["賴委員香伶：您是高雄人嗎？"],["陳院長建仁：我是旗山。"],["賴委員香伶：旗山，好。高雄市岡山區這個地方有一家業者在2月24號停業，3月1號就復業，大家都知道我講的是哪一家，就是這次進口八千多萬顆蛋的超思公司。請教蔡部長，一個公司資本額50萬，可以進口八千多萬顆蛋，然後經營大概上5、6億的進出口貿易，這公司只有1人公司，請問一般空頭公司怎麼定義？"],["蔡部長清祥：如果涉及到刑事責任的話，我們檢察官就會依法來偵查。"],["賴委員香伶：所以不管它是不是空頭？"],["蔡部長清祥：是不是空頭……"],["賴委員香伶：基本上一家公司停業到復業4天，扣掉228連假，你覺得這中間有沒有問題？"],["蔡部長清祥：有沒有問題或是是不是空頭，由檢察官來做認定。"],["賴委員香伶：還是我要請王美花部長上來？經濟部怎麼可以讓一個公司2月24號停業之後，3月1號立即讓它復業，而且這個還不帶任何條件的？這個做法我希望法務部儘速去查，這是讓國人解除疑義的第一個問題，因為大家知道蛋的問題就從這件事情開始。","下一個請看一下……"],["陳院長建仁：這是一家很有經驗的蛋的進口商，它曾經幫日商的蛋商從巴西進口到日本。"],["賴委員香伶：所以它不用任何的安全準備金，它只要有50萬資本額，它只要進口5、6億蛋，然後如果出事情，它不用背任何責任嗎？院長，您的意思是說它用人格保證就可以把這件事情扛起來嗎？"],["陳院長建仁：它不是用人格保證……"],["賴委員香伶：那它怎麼樣？"],["陳院長建仁：當時中央畜產會在徵求這個廠商來協助的時候，它實際上有提出來，公司本身的存款證明，已經有到六千多萬……"],["賴委員香伶：所以你們沒有用招標程序？是直接指定它嗎？好，院長這樣……"],["陳院長建仁：而且它也提出這個本票，將近4,000萬的本票。"],["賴委員香伶：因為今天我們的採購委員會也在，是不是……"],["陳院長建仁：所以它是有這個財力來進行這樣的一個工作。"],["賴委員香伶：好，它有多少萬的本票？四千多萬？"],["陳院長建仁：3,900萬。"],["賴委員香伶：三千九百多萬的本票，它進口了8,814萬顆，請問是多少價值的蛋品？"],["陳院長建仁：這裡面委員你就不瞭解了……"],["賴委員香伶：好……"],["陳院長建仁：因為它進口的是一批一批進來，第一批的蛋如果FOB上船了以後，到船以後開始運回臺灣……"],["賴委員香伶：不是，你的合約……"],["陳院長建仁：我們就會把錢撥給它，所以它是……"],["賴委員香伶：好，所以政府的錢左手進中間手，再到右手去，中間手它要負什麼責任？它不用負責任啊！你們看合約……"],["陳院長建仁：委員你想說中間手、左手與右手，這個是不對啊！因為……"],["賴委員香伶：拜託、拜託，代收代付、代收代付，轉錢而已。"],["陳院長建仁：它沒有，這次雖然合約上有代收代付、代收轉付這樣的作法，但是這一家廠商因為它的財力夠，所以它就沒有用代收轉付的這個方式，所以它就直接……"],["賴委員香伶：請問它的財力要看哪一個？三千多萬的本票作保證還是50萬的資本額作保證？院長拜託！蔡部長跟院長講一下，8,814萬顆的資本額50萬，12億的畜產會只進口一千八百多萬……"],["陳院長建仁：它是輪批進來的，第一批它就自己先付款了，因為它有這個財力嘛，它有這個財力，它付款了，然後以FOB的條件送來的時候……"],["賴委員香伶：它如果出事情，賠償資本額50萬，賠完就沒了……"],["陳院長建仁：它有給付第一筆錢，它就可以進第二批，所以委員你沒有瞭解整個的狀況，您的瞭解不是正確的。"],["賴委員香伶：請法務部調查清楚，謝謝。"],["主席：好，謝謝賴委員。","接下來請賴委員士葆質詢。"]],"agenda":{"page_end":130,"meet_id":"院會-10-8-1","speakers":["游錫堃","王鴻薇","曾銘宗","黃國書","邱臣遠","林楚茵","邱顯智","賴香伶","賴士葆","蔡適應","王婉諭","李貴敏","劉世芳","洪申翰","楊瓊瓔","林德福","王定宇","謝衣鳯","陳培瑜","洪孟楷","莊瑞雄","游毓蘭","費鴻泰"],"page_start":20,"meetingDate":["2023-09-22"],"gazette_id":"1126301","agenda_lcidc_ids":["1126301_00002","1126301_00003"],"meet_name":"立法院第10屆第8會期第1次會議紀錄","content":"行政院院長提出有關農業部辦理專案進口雞蛋相關事項專案報告並備質詢─ 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0.973}, {\"word\": \"2\"}, {\"word\": \"4\"}, {\"word\": \"日\", \"start\": 946.395, \"end\": 946.415, \"score\": 0.009}, {\"word\": \"）\"}, {\"word\": \"‎\"}], \"language\": \"zh\"}","srt":"1\n00:00:16,670 --> 00:00:29,083\n律師院長,我請陳建仁院長,陳俊記代理部長,還有衛福部薛部長。\n\n2\n00:00:35,404 --> 00:00:35,424\n訪中\n\n3\n00:00:58,459 --> 00:00:59,981\n昨天有授權我們的次長還有師長到民眾黨團去做報告嗎?\n\n4\n00:01:22,216 --> 00:01:23,839\n這份報告是他們提供給我們黨團的,你知道吧?\n\n5\n00:01:36,621 --> 00:01:54,957\n如果是我們農業部的應該就是他說這個是精進報告措施跟今天的院長報告雷同這裡面就確實講到你們要精進的部分所以他談到的說可能進口調控不對冷戀不足這有什麼錯嗎這樣的分析問題跟定調有說錯話嗎\n\n6\n00:01:56,860 --> 00:02:21,761\n為什麼他要出來說他沒說這話?我覺得對你們自己同仁的專業信念要尊重。對,我昨天詢問了我們同仁,那我們同仁也確定說他沒有說這句話。他有沒有說,換文字就知道,你們自己的報告寫得很清楚。所以今天我們在講,你們如果要檢討跟國人誠實以對,到底這一次進口蛋是不是急救章?是不是很多地方出了問題?\n\n7\n00:02:23,152 --> 00:02:36,512\n這件事情為什麼一個司長說話他會受到這麼大的壓力,還要否認呢?這黨團來報告也是據實以告,所以這是第一個,我希望你們不要因為他說這個話就把他調職,請問現在要把他調到哪裡去啊?\n\n8\n00:02:36,892 --> 00:03:00,223\n我想整個的我們在內部在檢討的時候早上已經說了就是在整個的政策效益上來講是沒問題的但是在執行過程中因為是第一次整個進口的決策過程到現在爆出來的問題誰來面對嗎提出檢討報告包括精進就是你們寫的啊所以你說進口的這個調控量出問題有錯嗎\n\n9\n00:03:02,230 --> 00:03:30,569\n我講進口的一個調控量我們當初的一個規劃是針對當時雞蛋缺口我已經聽過院長講院長今天講得非常清楚6月之後這個6月之後我們很多的這個復業啊等等的量出來就造成你們現在有幾就是說多出來或怎麼樣嘛這你早上已經講過失序了可是我們現在追問的是現在大家對於進口蛋的流量本身流向本身公開透明這件事情部裡面到現在也沒有給大家公開的答案\n\n10\n00:03:30,669 --> 00:03:50,788\n有,我跟委員講,我們是有對外有公開,陳前部長的時候就已經有講,但是當時沒有把那個洗鹹廠的名字公布,因為這一些,但是我們後來有給各個地方政府。您知道這個秦益這家蛋品公司在台灣算是蛋品業的龍頭嗎?\n\n11\n00:03:52,935 --> 00:04:11,637\n這家公司有沒有買到進口的巴西蛋,您知道嗎?有,但是最主要的是這個蛋,我們雖然有專案進口,但是他們也可以自己進口。他百分之百都是國產蛋,這件事情你們何時知道的?\n\n12\n00:04:12,674 --> 00:04:42,155\n我們是看到媒體報導才知道的。你們後知後覺到這個程度喔。但是他是他自己進口的蛋。他是自己進口的蛋。好,所以沒有經過你們這個續產會去配發那八千多萬顆。我想,沒有,我跟委員報告齁,我們勤益蛋餅裡面齁,我們續產會釋出有兩種,一種就是我們委託他代工大概一百六十八萬,一百六十八噸左右。那第二個部分是,我們也有釋出給他做加工相關的液蛋。那這個部分大概是一百...\n\n13\n00:04:42,515 --> 00:04:43,055\n媒體提供巴西進口雞蛋\n\n14\n00:05:04,229 --> 00:05:33,073\n我們專案進口的部分都有跟他說明的很清楚但是他自己進口的部分他要怎麼樣來標示那是廠商自己要負他的商譽那但是他今天聲稱他的這個蛋都是百分之百國產院長你早上有說要開罰用什麼法來罰他誰來罰你要怎麼罰啊標示不實欺騙大眾還是欺上瞞下到底用什麼法罰標示錯誤嗎哪一個\n\n15\n00:05:33,677 --> 00:05:34,037\n市安署會處理?\n\n16\n00:05:58,479 --> 00:06:20,917\n那請你們責成他們儘速處理不應該借這個時候又造成一個官方的困擾嗎你們剛剛明明講你們他有取得巴西蛋他也自己可能採買自己去聲稱百分百國產是為什麼就是最近大家擔心好像混到蛋了所以他自己出來自清結果一自清自己露餡所以拜託薛部長這件事就交給你來處理責成地方政府來確實的處理\n\n17\n00:06:23,179 --> 00:06:35,528\n新北市這次有查到這個蛋液的部分也是一樣就是說要標示成為臺灣這件事情是依我們食藥署相關的法制規範去做標示的對嗎?怎麼你們打臉了?農業部啊你忘了?不是不是剛剛委員講的是它是已經標示錯誤了嘛\n\n18\n00:06:47,358 --> 00:06:51,360\n這件事情到目前兩個部長竟然一看我表示你們對於\n\n19\n00:07:13,312 --> 00:07:15,814\n法規以為它就是一個實質轉型的一個產品所以就跟代工廠說可以標示為\n\n20\n00:07:39,812 --> 00:08:01,838\n對但是這對只針對我們委託代工的部分而這個產品所有的產品最後代工完成都回到我們續產會在倉庫裡面去所以並沒有釋出這第二個部分第二個部分我們7月26號回到前面的程序續產會曲解法令還是過去約定成熟還是就是根本就是隨便隨便指導業者\n\n21\n00:08:03,459 --> 00:08:24,740\n我想相關的這個十字轉型的一個相關的法規他有很多個要點那其中有個要點是只要他過往就是進口的時候有前面六位數的稅的號列不一樣的話就可以當作十字轉型但是他忽略了下面還有一些但書他沒有注意到但書所以感覺上說就可以當作十字轉型\n\n22\n00:08:25,721 --> 00:08:52,843\n誰發現的?誰認為這個錯誤然後糾正?是誰?這個部分就是那時候好像衛生署有去了解的時候我們去請教衛生署本身這樣錯誤是不對的所以我們在7月26日立即跟加工廠說後續我們委託代工的部分一定要回歸到巴西的這個標示那已經標示的部分業者現在心寒阿他說他是依農業部提供的方式來做標示的對當初的代工是這樣子那你們現在兩個要對付公帑還是怎麼樣?\n\n23\n00:08:53,663 --> 00:09:22,024\n對當初的代工是這樣子齁然後但是這個所有的蛋都全部在我們的續產會裡面並沒有釋出這是一個非常重要的我沒有再問你釋出一種我再問你標示為台灣這件事情的前提你說因為序號前面六位數大家都以為可以但是沒有看到蛋書這件事情現在查到後來竟然是這個有人去請教的食藥署相關的法規嘛所以農業部之前是知道還是不知道\n\n24\n00:09:22,523 --> 00:09:38,543\n我們在7月26日前後幾天知道了以後我們馬上去通知代工廠說不可以再繼續標台灣因為我們對法令的曲解就是誤解所以不是農業部明明知道這個是錯誤的不是放任他\n\n25\n00:09:39,673 --> 00:09:59,721\n不是我們一開始對所以不是我們故意去造假對我們是當初的同仁是我們當初的同仁本身因為是自己的產品委託代工然後誤解了這樣的一個法令然後就叫他標示台灣這產品還是我們的所以回到我們續產會裡面的倉庫後來發現了以後我們就跟代工廠講\n\n26\n00:10:03,923 --> 00:10:14,055\n因為衛福部的解釋是不可以標示為台灣,應該標示還是標示為巴西,那後續的這些代工的產品,我們還是改成標...所以這個是我們內部正在檢討的地方\n\n27\n00:10:24,687 --> 00:10:25,087\n法定人數不足\n\n28\n00:10:36,990 --> 00:10:48,923\n這個不算時事轉型,因為它還是彈還是一彈,這一個東西的話都是生的。沒有沒有,沒有,那多年之前就已經規定是這個樣子的。哇天啊,你們要罰業者,要罰這三家嗎?永成蛋業、無忌蛋品、盛翔蛋品,你們要罰他嗎?現在?\n\n29\n00:11:01,066 --> 00:11:29,304\n這如果說他已經到市場上面的話那就可能會受罰那現在沒有出來都在你們的倉庫裡面所以可以當作我們更改未來如果說業者是因為我們的錯誤的告知那我想我們會本於續產會的原來的一個錯誤告知我們會跟當地裁罰的單位去做這樣的一個陳述所以你們會讓他們三家免罰但是續產費自己要被罰是這樣嗎\n\n30\n00:11:32,787 --> 00:11:52,561\n市長你一直點頭嘛這件事情總要有人負個責任市長會的同仁要負責任但是我們也了解他在一個緊急的狀況下他自己只看了前面沒有注意到這個註解的地方那所以這\n\n31\n00:11:53,696 --> 00:12:20,759\n這是有瑕疵的但是我們也能夠體會他的在緊急狀況下所做出來的這個錯誤的說法好拜託現在大家看不管是部長走了這個董事長走了市長走了在座三位還是責任重大這個肩膀扛一下該要懲處該要確實檢討的就請你們一併這個我在早上的報告已經說得很清楚在經濟的過失做錯事當中我們會將來兩位部長請回我請法務部長\n\n32\n00:12:24,258 --> 00:12:36,038\n我想請看一下這個PPT第一個我想請教院長你知道這個高雄市岡山區的岡龍路150巷10號這個單位是什麼地方嗎?不曉得您是高雄人嗎?\n\n33\n00:12:36,894 --> 00:13:05,010\n我是岐山高雄市岡山區這個地方有一家業者在2月24日停業3月1日就復業大家都知道我講的是哪一家就是這次進口8000多萬顆蛋的超市公司請教蔡部長一個公司資本50萬可以進口8000多萬顆蛋然後經營大概上5、6億的這個進出口貿易這公司只有一人公司請問一般空投公司怎麼定義\n\n34\n00:13:06,540 --> 00:13:22,596\n如果涉及到刑事責任的話,我們檢察官就會依法來偵查。基本上一家公司停業到復業4天扣掉228年假,你覺得這中間有沒有問題?\n\n35\n00:13:23,874 --> 00:13:45,482\n有沒有問題或是不是空頭由檢察官來做認定?經濟部怎麼可以讓一個公司2月24日停業之後3月1日立即讓它復業而且這個還不帶任何條件的這個做法我希望法務部盡速去查這個是這個讓國人解除疑義的第一個問題因為大家知道蛋的問題就從這件事情開始\n\n36\n00:13:46,663 --> 00:14:05,682\n這是一家很有經驗的蛋的進口商他曾經幫日商蛋商從巴西進口到日本他只要50萬資本額他只要進口5、6億蛋然後如果出事情他不用背任何責任嗎?院長你的意思是說他用人格保證就可以把這件事情扛下\n\n37\n00:14:05,782 --> 00:14:06,182\n新聞新聞新聞新聞\n\n38\n00:14:34,505 --> 00:14:57,642\n請問是多少價值的蛋餅那這裡面委員你就不了解了因為他進口的是一批一批進來那這個蛋呢第一批的蛋如果他FOB他上船了以後呢到船以後開始運回台灣我們就會把錢撥給他所以他是左手進中間手再到右手去中間手他要他要負的什麼責任\n\n39\n00:14:59,844 --> 00:15:14,786\n委員你想說中間手左手右手這個是不對啊拜託拜託因為代付代收代付代收代付轉錢而已他沒有他這一次雖然合約上有代收代付代收轉付這樣的做法\n\n40\n00:15:15,086 --> 00:15:37,818\n但是這一家廠商呢他因為他的財力夠所以他就沒有用代售轉付的這個方式所以他就直接還是50萬的資本額做保證院長拜託蔡部長跟院長講一下8814萬顆的資本額50萬12億的訊場會他是輪批進來的那第一批他就自己先付款\n\n41\n00:15:44,732 --> 00:15:46,415\n報告並備質詢。（9月24日）‎\n\n","tsv":"start\tend\ttext\n16670\t29083\t律師院長,我請陳建仁院長,陳俊記代理部長,還有衛福部薛部長。\n35404\t35424\t訪中\n58459\t59981\t昨天有授權我們的次長還有師長到民眾黨團去做報告嗎?\n82216\t83839\t這份報告是他們提供給我們黨團的,你知道吧?\n96621\t114957\t如果是我們農業部的應該就是他說這個是精進報告措施跟今天的院長報告雷同這裡面就確實講到你們要精進的部分所以他談到的說可能進口調控不對冷戀不足這有什麼錯嗎這樣的分析問題跟定調有說錯話嗎\n116860\t141761\t為什麼他要出來說他沒說這話?我覺得對你們自己同仁的專業信念要尊重。對,我昨天詢問了我們同仁,那我們同仁也確定說他沒有說這句話。他有沒有說,換文字就知道,你們自己的報告寫得很清楚。所以今天我們在講,你們如果要檢討跟國人誠實以對,到底這一次進口蛋是不是急救章?是不是很多地方出了問題?\n143152\t156512\t這件事情為什麼一個司長說話他會受到這麼大的壓力,還要否認呢?這黨團來報告也是據實以告,所以這是第一個,我希望你們不要因為他說這個話就把他調職,請問現在要把他調到哪裡去啊?\n156892\t180223\t我想整個的我們在內部在檢討的時候早上已經說了就是在整個的政策效益上來講是沒問題的但是在執行過程中因為是第一次整個進口的決策過程到現在爆出來的問題誰來面對嗎提出檢討報告包括精進就是你們寫的啊所以你說進口的這個調控量出問題有錯嗎\n182230\t210569\t我講進口的一個調控量我們當初的一個規劃是針對當時雞蛋缺口我已經聽過院長講院長今天講得非常清楚6月之後這個6月之後我們很多的這個復業啊等等的量出來就造成你們現在有幾就是說多出來或怎麼樣嘛這你早上已經講過失序了可是我們現在追問的是現在大家對於進口蛋的流量本身流向本身公開透明這件事情部裡面到現在也沒有給大家公開的答案\n210669\t230788\t有,我跟委員講,我們是有對外有公開,陳前部長的時候就已經有講,但是當時沒有把那個洗鹹廠的名字公布,因為這一些,但是我們後來有給各個地方政府。您知道這個秦益這家蛋品公司在台灣算是蛋品業的龍頭嗎?\n232935\t251637\t這家公司有沒有買到進口的巴西蛋,您知道嗎?有,但是最主要的是這個蛋,我們雖然有專案進口,但是他們也可以自己進口。他百分之百都是國產蛋,這件事情你們何時知道的?\n252674\t282155\t我們是看到媒體報導才知道的。你們後知後覺到這個程度喔。但是他是他自己進口的蛋。他是自己進口的蛋。好,所以沒有經過你們這個續產會去配發那八千多萬顆。我想,沒有,我跟委員報告齁,我們勤益蛋餅裡面齁,我們續產會釋出有兩種,一種就是我們委託他代工大概一百六十八萬,一百六十八噸左右。那第二個部分是,我們也有釋出給他做加工相關的液蛋。那這個部分大概是一百...\n282515\t283055\t媒體提供巴西進口雞蛋\n304229\t333073\t我們專案進口的部分都有跟他說明的很清楚但是他自己進口的部分他要怎麼樣來標示那是廠商自己要負他的商譽那但是他今天聲稱他的這個蛋都是百分之百國產院長你早上有說要開罰用什麼法來罰他誰來罰你要怎麼罰啊標示不實欺騙大眾還是欺上瞞下到底用什麼法罰標示錯誤嗎哪一個\n333677\t334037\t市安署會處理?\n358479\t380917\t那請你們責成他們儘速處理不應該借這個時候又造成一個官方的困擾嗎你們剛剛明明講你們他有取得巴西蛋他也自己可能採買自己去聲稱百分百國產是為什麼就是最近大家擔心好像混到蛋了所以他自己出來自清結果一自清自己露餡所以拜託薛部長這件事就交給你來處理責成地方政府來確實的處理\n383179\t395528\t新北市這次有查到這個蛋液的部分也是一樣就是說要標示成為臺灣這件事情是依我們食藥署相關的法制規範去做標示的對嗎?怎麼你們打臉了?農業部啊你忘了?不是不是剛剛委員講的是它是已經標示錯誤了嘛\n407358\t411360\t這件事情到目前兩個部長竟然一看我表示你們對於\n433312\t435814\t法規以為它就是一個實質轉型的一個產品所以就跟代工廠說可以標示為\n459812\t481838\t對但是這對只針對我們委託代工的部分而這個產品所有的產品最後代工完成都回到我們續產會在倉庫裡面去所以並沒有釋出這第二個部分第二個部分我們7月26號回到前面的程序續產會曲解法令還是過去約定成熟還是就是根本就是隨便隨便指導業者\n483459\t504740\t我想相關的這個十字轉型的一個相關的法規他有很多個要點那其中有個要點是只要他過往就是進口的時候有前面六位數的稅的號列不一樣的話就可以當作十字轉型但是他忽略了下面還有一些但書他沒有注意到但書所以感覺上說就可以當作十字轉型\n505721\t532843\t誰發現的?誰認為這個錯誤然後糾正?是誰?這個部分就是那時候好像衛生署有去了解的時候我們去請教衛生署本身這樣錯誤是不對的所以我們在7月26日立即跟加工廠說後續我們委託代工的部分一定要回歸到巴西的這個標示那已經標示的部分業者現在心寒阿他說他是依農業部提供的方式來做標示的對當初的代工是這樣子那你們現在兩個要對付公帑還是怎麼樣?\n533663\t562024\t對當初的代工是這樣子齁然後但是這個所有的蛋都全部在我們的續產會裡面並沒有釋出這是一個非常重要的我沒有再問你釋出一種我再問你標示為台灣這件事情的前提你說因為序號前面六位數大家都以為可以但是沒有看到蛋書這件事情現在查到後來竟然是這個有人去請教的食藥署相關的法規嘛所以農業部之前是知道還是不知道\n562523\t578543\t我們在7月26日前後幾天知道了以後我們馬上去通知代工廠說不可以再繼續標台灣因為我們對法令的曲解就是誤解所以不是農業部明明知道這個是錯誤的不是放任他\n579673\t599721\t不是我們一開始對所以不是我們故意去造假對我們是當初的同仁是我們當初的同仁本身因為是自己的產品委託代工然後誤解了這樣的一個法令然後就叫他標示台灣這產品還是我們的所以回到我們續產會裡面的倉庫後來發現了以後我們就跟代工廠講\n603923\t614055\t因為衛福部的解釋是不可以標示為台灣,應該標示還是標示為巴西,那後續的這些代工的產品,我們還是改成標...所以這個是我們內部正在檢討的地方\n624687\t625087\t法定人數不足\n636990\t648923\t這個不算時事轉型,因為它還是彈還是一彈,這一個東西的話都是生的。沒有沒有,沒有,那多年之前就已經規定是這個樣子的。哇天啊,你們要罰業者,要罰這三家嗎?永成蛋業、無忌蛋品、盛翔蛋品,你們要罰他嗎?現在?\n661066\t689304\t這如果說他已經到市場上面的話那就可能會受罰那現在沒有出來都在你們的倉庫裡面所以可以當作我們更改未來如果說業者是因為我們的錯誤的告知那我想我們會本於續產會的原來的一個錯誤告知我們會跟當地裁罰的單位去做這樣的一個陳述所以你們會讓他們三家免罰但是續產費自己要被罰是這樣嗎\n692787\t712561\t市長你一直點頭嘛這件事情總要有人負個責任市長會的同仁要負責任但是我們也了解他在一個緊急的狀況下他自己只看了前面沒有注意到這個註解的地方那所以這\n713696\t740759\t這是有瑕疵的但是我們也能夠體會他的在緊急狀況下所做出來的這個錯誤的說法好拜託現在大家看不管是部長走了這個董事長走了市長走了在座三位還是責任重大這個肩膀扛一下該要懲處該要確實檢討的就請你們一併這個我在早上的報告已經說得很清楚在經濟的過失做錯事當中我們會將來兩位部長請回我請法務部長\n744258\t756038\t我想請看一下這個PPT第一個我想請教院長你知道這個高雄市岡山區的岡龍路150巷10號這個單位是什麼地方嗎?不曉得您是高雄人嗎?\n756894\t785010\t我是岐山高雄市岡山區這個地方有一家業者在2月24日停業3月1日就復業大家都知道我講的是哪一家就是這次進口8000多萬顆蛋的超市公司請教蔡部長一個公司資本50萬可以進口8000多萬顆蛋然後經營大概上5、6億的這個進出口貿易這公司只有一人公司請問一般空投公司怎麼定義\n786540\t802596\t如果涉及到刑事責任的話,我們檢察官就會依法來偵查。基本上一家公司停業到復業4天扣掉228年假,你覺得這中間有沒有問題?\n803874\t825482\t有沒有問題或是不是空頭由檢察官來做認定?經濟部怎麼可以讓一個公司2月24日停業之後3月1日立即讓它復業而且這個還不帶任何條件的這個做法我希望法務部盡速去查這個是這個讓國人解除疑義的第一個問題因為大家知道蛋的問題就從這件事情開始\n826663\t845682\t這是一家很有經驗的蛋的進口商他曾經幫日商蛋商從巴西進口到日本他只要50萬資本額他只要進口5、6億蛋然後如果出事情他不用背任何責任嗎?院長你的意思是說他用人格保證就可以把這件事情扛下\n845782\t846182\t新聞新聞新聞新聞\n874505\t897642\t請問是多少價值的蛋餅那這裡面委員你就不了解了因為他進口的是一批一批進來那這個蛋呢第一批的蛋如果他FOB他上船了以後呢到船以後開始運回台灣我們就會把錢撥給他所以他是左手進中間手再到右手去中間手他要他要負的什麼責任\n899844\t914786\t委員你想說中間手左手右手這個是不對啊 拜託拜託 因為代付 代收代付 代收代付轉錢而已 他沒有 他這一次雖然合約上有代收代付 代收轉付這樣的做法\n915086\t937818\t但是這一家廠商呢他因為他的財力夠所以他就沒有用代售轉付的這個方式所以他就直接還是50萬的資本額做保證院長拜託蔡部長跟院長講一下8814萬顆的資本額50萬12億的訊場會他是輪批進來的那第一批他就自己先付款\n944732\t946415\t報告並備質詢。（9月24日）‎\n","txt":"律師院長,我請陳建仁院長,陳俊記代理部長,還有衛福部薛部長。\n訪中\n昨天有授權我們的次長還有師長到民眾黨團去做報告嗎?\n這份報告是他們提供給我們黨團的,你知道吧?\n如果是我們農業部的應該就是他說這個是精進報告措施跟今天的院長報告雷同這裡面就確實講到你們要精進的部分所以他談到的說可能進口調控不對冷戀不足這有什麼錯嗎這樣的分析問題跟定調有說錯話嗎\n為什麼他要出來說他沒說這話?我覺得對你們自己同仁的專業信念要尊重。對,我昨天詢問了我們同仁,那我們同仁也確定說他沒有說這句話。他有沒有說,換文字就知道,你們自己的報告寫得很清楚。所以今天我們在講,你們如果要檢討跟國人誠實以對,到底這一次進口蛋是不是急救章?是不是很多地方出了問題?\n這件事情為什麼一個司長說話他會受到這麼大的壓力,還要否認呢?這黨團來報告也是據實以告,所以這是第一個,我希望你們不要因為他說這個話就把他調職,請問現在要把他調到哪裡去啊?\n我想整個的我們在內部在檢討的時候早上已經說了就是在整個的政策效益上來講是沒問題的但是在執行過程中因為是第一次整個進口的決策過程到現在爆出來的問題誰來面對嗎提出檢討報告包括精進就是你們寫的啊所以你說進口的這個調控量出問題有錯嗎\n我講進口的一個調控量我們當初的一個規劃是針對當時雞蛋缺口我已經聽過院長講院長今天講得非常清楚6月之後這個6月之後我們很多的這個復業啊等等的量出來就造成你們現在有幾就是說多出來或怎麼樣嘛這你早上已經講過失序了可是我們現在追問的是現在大家對於進口蛋的流量本身流向本身公開透明這件事情部裡面到現在也沒有給大家公開的答案\n有,我跟委員講,我們是有對外有公開,陳前部長的時候就已經有講,但是當時沒有把那個洗鹹廠的名字公布,因為這一些,但是我們後來有給各個地方政府。您知道這個秦益這家蛋品公司在台灣算是蛋品業的龍頭嗎?\n這家公司有沒有買到進口的巴西蛋,您知道嗎?有,但是最主要的是這個蛋,我們雖然有專案進口,但是他們也可以自己進口。他百分之百都是國產蛋,這件事情你們何時知道的?\n我們是看到媒體報導才知道的。你們後知後覺到這個程度喔。但是他是他自己進口的蛋。他是自己進口的蛋。好,所以沒有經過你們這個續產會去配發那八千多萬顆。我想,沒有,我跟委員報告齁,我們勤益蛋餅裡面齁,我們續產會釋出有兩種,一種就是我們委託他代工大概一百六十八萬,一百六十八噸左右。那第二個部分是,我們也有釋出給他做加工相關的液蛋。那這個部分大概是一百...\n媒體提供巴西進口雞蛋\n我們專案進口的部分都有跟他說明的很清楚但是他自己進口的部分他要怎麼樣來標示那是廠商自己要負他的商譽那但是他今天聲稱他的這個蛋都是百分之百國產院長你早上有說要開罰用什麼法來罰他誰來罰你要怎麼罰啊標示不實欺騙大眾還是欺上瞞下到底用什麼法罰標示錯誤嗎哪一個\n市安署會處理?\n那請你們責成他們儘速處理不應該借這個時候又造成一個官方的困擾嗎你們剛剛明明講你們他有取得巴西蛋他也自己可能採買自己去聲稱百分百國產是為什麼就是最近大家擔心好像混到蛋了所以他自己出來自清結果一自清自己露餡所以拜託薛部長這件事就交給你來處理責成地方政府來確實的處理\n新北市這次有查到這個蛋液的部分也是一樣就是說要標示成為臺灣這件事情是依我們食藥署相關的法制規範去做標示的對嗎?怎麼你們打臉了?農業部啊你忘了?不是不是剛剛委員講的是它是已經標示錯誤了嘛\n這件事情到目前兩個部長竟然一看我表示你們對於\n法規以為它就是一個實質轉型的一個產品所以就跟代工廠說可以標示為\n對但是這對只針對我們委託代工的部分而這個產品所有的產品最後代工完成都回到我們續產會在倉庫裡面去所以並沒有釋出這第二個部分第二個部分我們7月26號回到前面的程序續產會曲解法令還是過去約定成熟還是就是根本就是隨便隨便指導業者\n我想相關的這個十字轉型的一個相關的法規他有很多個要點那其中有個要點是只要他過往就是進口的時候有前面六位數的稅的號列不一樣的話就可以當作十字轉型但是他忽略了下面還有一些但書他沒有注意到但書所以感覺上說就可以當作十字轉型\n誰發現的?誰認為這個錯誤然後糾正?是誰?這個部分就是那時候好像衛生署有去了解的時候我們去請教衛生署本身這樣錯誤是不對的所以我們在7月26日立即跟加工廠說後續我們委託代工的部分一定要回歸到巴西的這個標示那已經標示的部分業者現在心寒阿他說他是依農業部提供的方式來做標示的對當初的代工是這樣子那你們現在兩個要對付公帑還是怎麼樣?\n對當初的代工是這樣子齁然後但是這個所有的蛋都全部在我們的續產會裡面並沒有釋出這是一個非常重要的我沒有再問你釋出一種我再問你標示為台灣這件事情的前提你說因為序號前面六位數大家都以為可以但是沒有看到蛋書這件事情現在查到後來竟然是這個有人去請教的食藥署相關的法規嘛所以農業部之前是知道還是不知道\n我們在7月26日前後幾天知道了以後我們馬上去通知代工廠說不可以再繼續標台灣因為我們對法令的曲解就是誤解所以不是農業部明明知道這個是錯誤的不是放任他\n不是我們一開始對所以不是我們故意去造假對我們是當初的同仁是我們當初的同仁本身因為是自己的產品委託代工然後誤解了這樣的一個法令然後就叫他標示台灣這產品還是我們的所以回到我們續產會裡面的倉庫後來發現了以後我們就跟代工廠講\n因為衛福部的解釋是不可以標示為台灣,應該標示還是標示為巴西,那後續的這些代工的產品,我們還是改成標...所以這個是我們內部正在檢討的地方\n法定人數不足\n這個不算時事轉型,因為它還是彈還是一彈,這一個東西的話都是生的。沒有沒有,沒有,那多年之前就已經規定是這個樣子的。哇天啊,你們要罰業者,要罰這三家嗎?永成蛋業、無忌蛋品、盛翔蛋品,你們要罰他嗎?現在?\n這如果說他已經到市場上面的話那就可能會受罰那現在沒有出來都在你們的倉庫裡面所以可以當作我們更改未來如果說業者是因為我們的錯誤的告知那我想我們會本於續產會的原來的一個錯誤告知我們會跟當地裁罰的單位去做這樣的一個陳述所以你們會讓他們三家免罰但是續產費自己要被罰是這樣嗎\n市長你一直點頭嘛這件事情總要有人負個責任市長會的同仁要負責任但是我們也了解他在一個緊急的狀況下他自己只看了前面沒有注意到這個註解的地方那所以這\n這是有瑕疵的但是我們也能夠體會他的在緊急狀況下所做出來的這個錯誤的說法好拜託現在大家看不管是部長走了這個董事長走了市長走了在座三位還是責任重大這個肩膀扛一下該要懲處該要確實檢討的就請你們一併這個我在早上的報告已經說得很清楚在經濟的過失做錯事當中我們會將來兩位部長請回我請法務部長\n我想請看一下這個PPT第一個我想請教院長你知道這個高雄市岡山區的岡龍路150巷10號這個單位是什麼地方嗎?不曉得您是高雄人嗎?\n我是岐山高雄市岡山區這個地方有一家業者在2月24日停業3月1日就復業大家都知道我講的是哪一家就是這次進口8000多萬顆蛋的超市公司請教蔡部長一個公司資本50萬可以進口8000多萬顆蛋然後經營大概上5、6億的這個進出口貿易這公司只有一人公司請問一般空投公司怎麼定義\n如果涉及到刑事責任的話,我們檢察官就會依法來偵查。基本上一家公司停業到復業4天扣掉228年假,你覺得這中間有沒有問題?\n有沒有問題或是不是空頭由檢察官來做認定?經濟部怎麼可以讓一個公司2月24日停業之後3月1日立即讓它復業而且這個還不帶任何條件的這個做法我希望法務部盡速去查這個是這個讓國人解除疑義的第一個問題因為大家知道蛋的問題就從這件事情開始\n這是一家很有經驗的蛋的進口商他曾經幫日商蛋商從巴西進口到日本他只要50萬資本額他只要進口5、6億蛋然後如果出事情他不用背任何責任嗎?院長你的意思是說他用人格保證就可以把這件事情扛下\n新聞新聞新聞新聞\n請問是多少價值的蛋餅那這裡面委員你就不了解了因為他進口的是一批一批進來那這個蛋呢第一批的蛋如果他FOB他上船了以後呢到船以後開始運回台灣我們就會把錢撥給他所以他是左手進中間手再到右手去中間手他要他要負的什麼責任\n委員你想說中間手左手右手這個是不對啊 拜託拜託 因為代付 代收代付 代收代付轉錢而已 他沒有 他這一次雖然合約上有代收代付 代收轉付這樣的做法\n但是這一家廠商呢他因為他的財力夠所以他就沒有用代售轉付的這個方式所以他就直接還是50萬的資本額做保證院長拜託蔡部長跟院長講一下8814萬顆的資本額50萬12億的訊場會他是輪批進來的那第一批他就自己先付款\n報告並備質詢。（9月24日）‎\n","vtt":"WEBVTT\n\n00:16.670 --> 00:29.083\n律師院長,我請陳建仁院長,陳俊記代理部長,還有衛福部薛部長。\n\n00:35.404 --> 00:35.424\n訪中\n\n00:58.459 --> 00:59.981\n昨天有授權我們的次長還有師長到民眾黨團去做報告嗎?\n\n01:22.216 --> 01:23.839\n這份報告是他們提供給我們黨團的,你知道吧?\n\n01:36.621 --> 01:54.957\n如果是我們農業部的應該就是他說這個是精進報告措施跟今天的院長報告雷同這裡面就確實講到你們要精進的部分所以他談到的說可能進口調控不對冷戀不足這有什麼錯嗎這樣的分析問題跟定調有說錯話嗎\n\n01:56.860 --> 02:21.761\n為什麼他要出來說他沒說這話?我覺得對你們自己同仁的專業信念要尊重。對,我昨天詢問了我們同仁,那我們同仁也確定說他沒有說這句話。他有沒有說,換文字就知道,你們自己的報告寫得很清楚。所以今天我們在講,你們如果要檢討跟國人誠實以對,到底這一次進口蛋是不是急救章?是不是很多地方出了問題?\n\n02:23.152 --> 02:36.512\n這件事情為什麼一個司長說話他會受到這麼大的壓力,還要否認呢?這黨團來報告也是據實以告,所以這是第一個,我希望你們不要因為他說這個話就把他調職,請問現在要把他調到哪裡去啊?\n\n02:36.892 --> 03:00.223\n我想整個的我們在內部在檢討的時候早上已經說了就是在整個的政策效益上來講是沒問題的但是在執行過程中因為是第一次整個進口的決策過程到現在爆出來的問題誰來面對嗎提出檢討報告包括精進就是你們寫的啊所以你說進口的這個調控量出問題有錯嗎\n\n03:02.230 --> 03:30.569\n我講進口的一個調控量我們當初的一個規劃是針對當時雞蛋缺口我已經聽過院長講院長今天講得非常清楚6月之後這個6月之後我們很多的這個復業啊等等的量出來就造成你們現在有幾就是說多出來或怎麼樣嘛這你早上已經講過失序了可是我們現在追問的是現在大家對於進口蛋的流量本身流向本身公開透明這件事情部裡面到現在也沒有給大家公開的答案\n\n03:30.669 --> 03:50.788\n有,我跟委員講,我們是有對外有公開,陳前部長的時候就已經有講,但是當時沒有把那個洗鹹廠的名字公布,因為這一些,但是我們後來有給各個地方政府。您知道這個秦益這家蛋品公司在台灣算是蛋品業的龍頭嗎?\n\n03:52.935 --> 04:11.637\n這家公司有沒有買到進口的巴西蛋,您知道嗎?有,但是最主要的是這個蛋,我們雖然有專案進口,但是他們也可以自己進口。他百分之百都是國產蛋,這件事情你們何時知道的?\n\n04:12.674 --> 04:42.155\n我們是看到媒體報導才知道的。你們後知後覺到這個程度喔。但是他是他自己進口的蛋。他是自己進口的蛋。好,所以沒有經過你們這個續產會去配發那八千多萬顆。我想,沒有,我跟委員報告齁,我們勤益蛋餅裡面齁,我們續產會釋出有兩種,一種就是我們委託他代工大概一百六十八萬,一百六十八噸左右。那第二個部分是,我們也有釋出給他做加工相關的液蛋。那這個部分大概是一百...\n\n04:42.515 --> 04:43.055\n媒體提供巴西進口雞蛋\n\n05:04.229 --> 05:33.073\n我們專案進口的部分都有跟他說明的很清楚但是他自己進口的部分他要怎麼樣來標示那是廠商自己要負他的商譽那但是他今天聲稱他的這個蛋都是百分之百國產院長你早上有說要開罰用什麼法來罰他誰來罰你要怎麼罰啊標示不實欺騙大眾還是欺上瞞下到底用什麼法罰標示錯誤嗎哪一個\n\n05:33.677 --> 05:34.037\n市安署會處理?\n\n05:58.479 --> 06:20.917\n那請你們責成他們儘速處理不應該借這個時候又造成一個官方的困擾嗎你們剛剛明明講你們他有取得巴西蛋他也自己可能採買自己去聲稱百分百國產是為什麼就是最近大家擔心好像混到蛋了所以他自己出來自清結果一自清自己露餡所以拜託薛部長這件事就交給你來處理責成地方政府來確實的處理\n\n06:23.179 --> 06:35.528\n新北市這次有查到這個蛋液的部分也是一樣就是說要標示成為臺灣這件事情是依我們食藥署相關的法制規範去做標示的對嗎?怎麼你們打臉了?農業部啊你忘了?不是不是剛剛委員講的是它是已經標示錯誤了嘛\n\n06:47.358 --> 06:51.360\n這件事情到目前兩個部長竟然一看我表示你們對於\n\n07:13.312 --> 07:15.814\n法規以為它就是一個實質轉型的一個產品所以就跟代工廠說可以標示為\n\n07:39.812 --> 08:01.838\n對但是這對只針對我們委託代工的部分而這個產品所有的產品最後代工完成都回到我們續產會在倉庫裡面去所以並沒有釋出這第二個部分第二個部分我們7月26號回到前面的程序續產會曲解法令還是過去約定成熟還是就是根本就是隨便隨便指導業者\n\n08:03.459 --> 08:24.740\n我想相關的這個十字轉型的一個相關的法規他有很多個要點那其中有個要點是只要他過往就是進口的時候有前面六位數的稅的號列不一樣的話就可以當作十字轉型但是他忽略了下面還有一些但書他沒有注意到但書所以感覺上說就可以當作十字轉型\n\n08:25.721 --> 08:52.843\n誰發現的?誰認為這個錯誤然後糾正?是誰?這個部分就是那時候好像衛生署有去了解的時候我們去請教衛生署本身這樣錯誤是不對的所以我們在7月26日立即跟加工廠說後續我們委託代工的部分一定要回歸到巴西的這個標示那已經標示的部分業者現在心寒阿他說他是依農業部提供的方式來做標示的對當初的代工是這樣子那你們現在兩個要對付公帑還是怎麼樣?\n\n08:53.663 --> 09:22.024\n對當初的代工是這樣子齁然後但是這個所有的蛋都全部在我們的續產會裡面並沒有釋出這是一個非常重要的我沒有再問你釋出一種我再問你標示為台灣這件事情的前提你說因為序號前面六位數大家都以為可以但是沒有看到蛋書這件事情現在查到後來竟然是這個有人去請教的食藥署相關的法規嘛所以農業部之前是知道還是不知道\n\n09:22.523 --> 09:38.543\n我們在7月26日前後幾天知道了以後我們馬上去通知代工廠說不可以再繼續標台灣因為我們對法令的曲解就是誤解所以不是農業部明明知道這個是錯誤的不是放任他\n\n09:39.673 --> 09:59.721\n不是我們一開始對所以不是我們故意去造假對我們是當初的同仁是我們當初的同仁本身因為是自己的產品委託代工然後誤解了這樣的一個法令然後就叫他標示台灣這產品還是我們的所以回到我們續產會裡面的倉庫後來發現了以後我們就跟代工廠講\n\n10:03.923 --> 10:14.055\n因為衛福部的解釋是不可以標示為台灣,應該標示還是標示為巴西,那後續的這些代工的產品,我們還是改成標...所以這個是我們內部正在檢討的地方\n\n10:24.687 --> 10:25.087\n法定人數不足\n\n10:36.990 --> 10:48.923\n這個不算時事轉型,因為它還是彈還是一彈,這一個東西的話都是生的。沒有沒有,沒有,那多年之前就已經規定是這個樣子的。哇天啊,你們要罰業者,要罰這三家嗎?永成蛋業、無忌蛋品、盛翔蛋品,你們要罰他嗎?現在?\n\n11:01.066 --> 11:29.304\n這如果說他已經到市場上面的話那就可能會受罰那現在沒有出來都在你們的倉庫裡面所以可以當作我們更改未來如果說業者是因為我們的錯誤的告知那我想我們會本於續產會的原來的一個錯誤告知我們會跟當地裁罰的單位去做這樣的一個陳述所以你們會讓他們三家免罰但是續產費自己要被罰是這樣嗎\n\n11:32.787 --> 11:52.561\n市長你一直點頭嘛這件事情總要有人負個責任市長會的同仁要負責任但是我們也了解他在一個緊急的狀況下他自己只看了前面沒有注意到這個註解的地方那所以這\n\n11:53.696 --> 12:20.759\n這是有瑕疵的但是我們也能夠體會他的在緊急狀況下所做出來的這個錯誤的說法好拜託現在大家看不管是部長走了這個董事長走了市長走了在座三位還是責任重大這個肩膀扛一下該要懲處該要確實檢討的就請你們一併這個我在早上的報告已經說得很清楚在經濟的過失做錯事當中我們會將來兩位部長請回我請法務部長\n\n12:24.258 --> 12:36.038\n我想請看一下這個PPT第一個我想請教院長你知道這個高雄市岡山區的岡龍路150巷10號這個單位是什麼地方嗎?不曉得您是高雄人嗎?\n\n12:36.894 --> 13:05.010\n我是岐山高雄市岡山區這個地方有一家業者在2月24日停業3月1日就復業大家都知道我講的是哪一家就是這次進口8000多萬顆蛋的超市公司請教蔡部長一個公司資本50萬可以進口8000多萬顆蛋然後經營大概上5、6億的這個進出口貿易這公司只有一人公司請問一般空投公司怎麼定義\n\n13:06.540 --> 13:22.596\n如果涉及到刑事責任的話,我們檢察官就會依法來偵查。基本上一家公司停業到復業4天扣掉228年假,你覺得這中間有沒有問題?\n\n13:23.874 --> 13:45.482\n有沒有問題或是不是空頭由檢察官來做認定?經濟部怎麼可以讓一個公司2月24日停業之後3月1日立即讓它復業而且這個還不帶任何條件的這個做法我希望法務部盡速去查這個是這個讓國人解除疑義的第一個問題因為大家知道蛋的問題就從這件事情開始\n\n13:46.663 --> 14:05.682\n這是一家很有經驗的蛋的進口商他曾經幫日商蛋商從巴西進口到日本他只要50萬資本額他只要進口5、6億蛋然後如果出事情他不用背任何責任嗎?院長你的意思是說他用人格保證就可以把這件事情扛下\n\n14:05.782 --> 14:06.182\n新聞新聞新聞新聞\n\n14:34.505 --> 14:57.642\n請問是多少價值的蛋餅那這裡面委員你就不了解了因為他進口的是一批一批進來那這個蛋呢第一批的蛋如果他FOB他上船了以後呢到船以後開始運回台灣我們就會把錢撥給他所以他是左手進中間手再到右手去中間手他要他要負的什麼責任\n\n14:59.844 --> 15:14.786\n委員你想說中間手左手右手這個是不對啊拜託拜託因為代付代收代付代收代付轉錢而已他沒有他這一次雖然合約上有代收代付代收轉付這樣的做法\n\n15:15.086 --> 15:37.818\n但是這一家廠商呢他因為他的財力夠所以他就沒有用代售轉付的這個方式所以他就直接還是50萬的資本額做保證院長拜託蔡部長跟院長講一下8814萬顆的資本額50萬12億的訊場會他是輪批進來的那第一批他就自己先付款\n\n15:44.732 --> 15:46.415\n報告並備質詢。（9月24日）‎\n\n","segments":[{"start":16.67,"end":29.083,"text":"律師院長,我請陳建仁院長,陳俊記代理部長,還有衛福部薛部長。"},{"start":35.404,"end":35.424,"text":"訪中"},{"start":58.459,"end":59.981,"text":"昨天有授權我們的次長還有師長到民眾黨團去做報告嗎?"},{"start":82.216,"end":83.839,"text":"這份報告是他們提供給我們黨團的,你知道吧?"},{"start":96.621,"end":114.957,"text":"如果是我們農業部的應該就是他說這個是精進報告措施跟今天的院長報告雷同這裡面就確實講到你們要精進的部分所以他談到的說可能進口調控不對冷戀不足這有什麼錯嗎這樣的分析問題跟定調有說錯話嗎"},{"start":116.86,"end":141.761,"text":"為什麼他要出來說他沒說這話?我覺得對你們自己同仁的專業信念要尊重。對,我昨天詢問了我們同仁,那我們同仁也確定說他沒有說這句話。他有沒有說,換文字就知道,你們自己的報告寫得很清楚。所以今天我們在講,你們如果要檢討跟國人誠實以對,到底這一次進口蛋是不是急救章?是不是很多地方出了問題?"},{"start":143.152,"end":156.512,"text":"這件事情為什麼一個司長說話他會受到這麼大的壓力,還要否認呢?這黨團來報告也是據實以告,所以這是第一個,我希望你們不要因為他說這個話就把他調職,請問現在要把他調到哪裡去啊?"},{"start":156.892,"end":180.223,"text":"我想整個的我們在內部在檢討的時候早上已經說了就是在整個的政策效益上來講是沒問題的但是在執行過程中因為是第一次整個進口的決策過程到現在爆出來的問題誰來面對嗎提出檢討報告包括精進就是你們寫的啊所以你說進口的這個調控量出問題有錯嗎"},{"start":182.23,"end":210.569,"text":"我講進口的一個調控量我們當初的一個規劃是針對當時雞蛋缺口我已經聽過院長講院長今天講得非常清楚6月之後這個6月之後我們很多的這個復業啊等等的量出來就造成你們現在有幾就是說多出來或怎麼樣嘛這你早上已經講過失序了可是我們現在追問的是現在大家對於進口蛋的流量本身流向本身公開透明這件事情部裡面到現在也沒有給大家公開的答案"},{"start":210.669,"end":230.788,"text":"有,我跟委員講,我們是有對外有公開,陳前部長的時候就已經有講,但是當時沒有把那個洗鹹廠的名字公布,因為這一些,但是我們後來有給各個地方政府。您知道這個秦益這家蛋品公司在台灣算是蛋品業的龍頭嗎?"},{"start":232.935,"end":251.637,"text":"這家公司有沒有買到進口的巴西蛋,您知道嗎?有,但是最主要的是這個蛋,我們雖然有專案進口,但是他們也可以自己進口。他百分之百都是國產蛋,這件事情你們何時知道的?"},{"start":252.674,"end":282.155,"text":"我們是看到媒體報導才知道的。你們後知後覺到這個程度喔。但是他是他自己進口的蛋。他是自己進口的蛋。好,所以沒有經過你們這個續產會去配發那八千多萬顆。我想,沒有,我跟委員報告齁,我們勤益蛋餅裡面齁,我們續產會釋出有兩種,一種就是我們委託他代工大概一百六十八萬,一百六十八噸左右。那第二個部分是,我們也有釋出給他做加工相關的液蛋。那這個部分大概是一百..."},{"start":282.515,"end":283.055,"text":"媒體提供巴西進口雞蛋"},{"start":304.229,"end":333.073,"text":"我們專案進口的部分都有跟他說明的很清楚但是他自己進口的部分他要怎麼樣來標示那是廠商自己要負他的商譽那但是他今天聲稱他的這個蛋都是百分之百國產院長你早上有說要開罰用什麼法來罰他誰來罰你要怎麼罰啊標示不實欺騙大眾還是欺上瞞下到底用什麼法罰標示錯誤嗎哪一個"},{"start":333.677,"end":334.037,"text":"市安署會處理?"},{"start":358.479,"end":380.917,"text":"那請你們責成他們儘速處理不應該借這個時候又造成一個官方的困擾嗎你們剛剛明明講你們他有取得巴西蛋他也自己可能採買自己去聲稱百分百國產是為什麼就是最近大家擔心好像混到蛋了所以他自己出來自清結果一自清自己露餡所以拜託薛部長這件事就交給你來處理責成地方政府來確實的處理"},{"start":383.179,"end":395.528,"text":"新北市這次有查到這個蛋液的部分也是一樣就是說要標示成為臺灣這件事情是依我們食藥署相關的法制規範去做標示的對嗎?怎麼你們打臉了?農業部啊你忘了?不是不是剛剛委員講的是它是已經標示錯誤了嘛"},{"start":407.358,"end":411.36,"text":"這件事情到目前兩個部長竟然一看我表示你們對於"},{"start":433.312,"end":435.814,"text":"法規以為它就是一個實質轉型的一個產品所以就跟代工廠說可以標示為"},{"start":459.812,"end":481.838,"text":"對但是這對只針對我們委託代工的部分而這個產品所有的產品最後代工完成都回到我們續產會在倉庫裡面去所以並沒有釋出這第二個部分第二個部分我們7月26號回到前面的程序續產會曲解法令還是過去約定成熟還是就是根本就是隨便隨便指導業者"},{"start":483.459,"end":504.74,"text":"我想相關的這個十字轉型的一個相關的法規他有很多個要點那其中有個要點是只要他過往就是進口的時候有前面六位數的稅的號列不一樣的話就可以當作十字轉型但是他忽略了下面還有一些但書他沒有注意到但書所以感覺上說就可以當作十字轉型"},{"start":505.721,"end":532.843,"text":"誰發現的?誰認為這個錯誤然後糾正?是誰?這個部分就是那時候好像衛生署有去了解的時候我們去請教衛生署本身這樣錯誤是不對的所以我們在7月26日立即跟加工廠說後續我們委託代工的部分一定要回歸到巴西的這個標示那已經標示的部分業者現在心寒阿他說他是依農業部提供的方式來做標示的對當初的代工是這樣子那你們現在兩個要對付公帑還是怎麼樣?"},{"start":533.663,"end":562.024,"text":"對當初的代工是這樣子齁然後但是這個所有的蛋都全部在我們的續產會裡面並沒有釋出這是一個非常重要的我沒有再問你釋出一種我再問你標示為台灣這件事情的前提你說因為序號前面六位數大家都以為可以但是沒有看到蛋書這件事情現在查到後來竟然是這個有人去請教的食藥署相關的法規嘛所以農業部之前是知道還是不知道"},{"start":562.523,"end":578.543,"text":"我們在7月26日前後幾天知道了以後我們馬上去通知代工廠說不可以再繼續標台灣因為我們對法令的曲解就是誤解所以不是農業部明明知道這個是錯誤的不是放任他"},{"start":579.673,"end":599.721,"text":"不是我們一開始對所以不是我們故意去造假對我們是當初的同仁是我們當初的同仁本身因為是自己的產品委託代工然後誤解了這樣的一個法令然後就叫他標示台灣這產品還是我們的所以回到我們續產會裡面的倉庫後來發現了以後我們就跟代工廠講"},{"start":603.923,"end":614.055,"text":"因為衛福部的解釋是不可以標示為台灣,應該標示還是標示為巴西,那後續的這些代工的產品,我們還是改成標...所以這個是我們內部正在檢討的地方"},{"start":624.687,"end":625.087,"text":"法定人數不足"},{"start":636.99,"end":648.923,"text":"這個不算時事轉型,因為它還是彈還是一彈,這一個東西的話都是生的。沒有沒有,沒有,那多年之前就已經規定是這個樣子的。哇天啊,你們要罰業者,要罰這三家嗎?永成蛋業、無忌蛋品、盛翔蛋品,你們要罰他嗎?現在?"},{"start":661.066,"end":689.304,"text":"這如果說他已經到市場上面的話那就可能會受罰那現在沒有出來都在你們的倉庫裡面所以可以當作我們更改未來如果說業者是因為我們的錯誤的告知那我想我們會本於續產會的原來的一個錯誤告知我們會跟當地裁罰的單位去做這樣的一個陳述所以你們會讓他們三家免罰但是續產費自己要被罰是這樣嗎"},{"start":692.787,"end":712.561,"text":"市長你一直點頭嘛這件事情總要有人負個責任市長會的同仁要負責任但是我們也了解他在一個緊急的狀況下他自己只看了前面沒有注意到這個註解的地方那所以這"},{"start":713.696,"end":740.759,"text":"這是有瑕疵的但是我們也能夠體會他的在緊急狀況下所做出來的這個錯誤的說法好拜託現在大家看不管是部長走了這個董事長走了市長走了在座三位還是責任重大這個肩膀扛一下該要懲處該要確實檢討的就請你們一併這個我在早上的報告已經說得很清楚在經濟的過失做錯事當中我們會將來兩位部長請回我請法務部長"},{"start":744.258,"end":756.038,"text":"我想請看一下這個PPT第一個我想請教院長你知道這個高雄市岡山區的岡龍路150巷10號這個單位是什麼地方嗎?不曉得您是高雄人嗎?"},{"start":756.894,"end":785.01,"text":"我是岐山高雄市岡山區這個地方有一家業者在2月24日停業3月1日就復業大家都知道我講的是哪一家就是這次進口8000多萬顆蛋的超市公司請教蔡部長一個公司資本50萬可以進口8000多萬顆蛋然後經營大概上5、6億的這個進出口貿易這公司只有一人公司請問一般空投公司怎麼定義"},{"start":786.54,"end":802.596,"text":"如果涉及到刑事責任的話,我們檢察官就會依法來偵查。基本上一家公司停業到復業4天扣掉228年假,你覺得這中間有沒有問題?"},{"start":803.874,"end":825.482,"text":"有沒有問題或是不是空頭由檢察官來做認定?經濟部怎麼可以讓一個公司2月24日停業之後3月1日立即讓它復業而且這個還不帶任何條件的這個做法我希望法務部盡速去查這個是這個讓國人解除疑義的第一個問題因為大家知道蛋的問題就從這件事情開始"},{"start":826.663,"end":845.682,"text":"這是一家很有經驗的蛋的進口商他曾經幫日商蛋商從巴西進口到日本他只要50萬資本額他只要進口5、6億蛋然後如果出事情他不用背任何責任嗎?院長你的意思是說他用人格保證就可以把這件事情扛下"},{"start":845.782,"end":846.182,"text":"新聞新聞新聞新聞"},{"start":874.505,"end":897.642,"text":"請問是多少價值的蛋餅那這裡面委員你就不了解了因為他進口的是一批一批進來那這個蛋呢第一批的蛋如果他FOB他上船了以後呢到船以後開始運回台灣我們就會把錢撥給他所以他是左手進中間手再到右手去中間手他要他要負的什麼責任"},{"start":899.844,"end":914.786,"text":"委員你想說中間手左手右手這個是不對啊 拜託拜託 因為代付 代收代付 代收代付轉錢而已 他沒有 他這一次雖然合約上有代收代付 代收轉付這樣的做法"},{"start":915.086,"end":937.818,"text":"但是這一家廠商呢他因為他的財力夠所以他就沒有用代售轉付的這個方式所以他就直接還是50萬的資本額做保證院長拜託蔡部長跟院長講一下8814萬顆的資本額50萬12億的訊場會他是輪批進來的那第一批他就自己先付款"},{"start":944.732,"end":946.415,"text":"報告並備質詢。（9月24日）‎"}]}}}}