{"id":149147,"url":"https://ivod.ly.gov.tw/Play/Clip/1M/149147","video_url":"https://ivod-lyvod.cdn.hinet.net/vod_1/_definst_/mp4:1MClips/ee9543ba39e9681068d28c2096d47e824c3dd4484df4233ff8ba9b0039caa7a668389693bd1b95a25ea18f28b6918d91.mp4/playlist.m3u8","委員名稱":"陳雪生","委員發言時間":"10:42:45 - 11:13:39","影片長度":"00:30:54","會議時間":"2024-02-27T09:00:00+08:00","會議名稱":"第11屆第1會期第2次會議（事由：一、對行政院院長提出施政方針及施政報告繼續質詢。\n二、2月23日上午9時至10時為國是論壇時間。\n三、2月27日下午1時50分至2時30分為處理臨時提案時間。）","meet":{"tmpMeeting":null,"title":"立法院第11屆第1會期第2次會議","id":"院會-11-1-2","type":"院會","term":11,"sessionPeriod":1,"sessionTimes":2},"date":"2024-02-27","duration":1854,"end_time":"2024-02-27T11:13:39+08:00","start_time":"2024-02-27T10:42:45+08:00","features":["ai-transcript","gazette"],"type":"Clip","gazette":{"lineno":504,"blocks":[["陳委員雪生：（10時42分）謝謝主席。陳院長、各部會首長，大家早安。是不是請主席請陳院長備詢？"],["主席：麻煩陳院長備詢。"],["陳院長建仁：陳委員早，恭喜委員當選連任。"],["陳委員雪生：院長早安。最近這幾天發生金廈水域大陸漁民不幸罹難的事情，間接影響到馬祖的海域。部長，您最近有沒有提到陸海警闖金門禁限制水域，我們要加強取締，必要時予以驅離，有沒有講這句話？"],["陳院長建仁：在金門是有禁限的水域，當有大陸的漁船進來的時候，我們確實是希望能夠請他們儘快撤離。"],["陳委員雪生：因為事情一發生，我非常關切，金門的事情衍生到馬祖，對於我們馬祖海巡的部分，我也跟海巡隊長講，我們保持警戒，追逐的事情先暫時避免，因為金廈的事情還沒處理好，所以在兩馬鬧元宵的時候，我們的縣長、議長也到彼岸去，跟大陸領導在那邊的氣氛都還很不錯，也就是金門、馬祖和他們的關係還滿好的，雖然他們有三條海監船在離我們5浬的地方也在宣示，但是一切還滿平和的。最近我們的海巡署周署長也做了一些動作，也比較低調一點。"],["管主任委員碧玲：是。"],["陳委員雪生：我是建議，在法律跟人道的部分能夠把它切割，畢竟人死為大。大陸的三無船、也就是我們簡稱的白船，是沒有牌照的，它來這邊有兩個目的，一個是我們金門、馬祖的島礁比較多、漁產比較多，它是來釣魚的；一種是來割網的、來竊盜的，所以在海巡跟海警來講的話，他們雙方在檯面下都有默契，是共同打擊犯罪跟取締的目標。但是海巡發生這件事情，是漁船的船尾勾到了底下，據我的瞭解……"],["管主任委員碧玲：是。"],["陳委員雪生：也有可能是它的人掉到海裡去死亡，也有可能是我們海巡在執法過程中，我們的人掉到海裡面去死亡，這種悲劇才會有。"],["管主任委員碧玲：跟委員報告，像去年的4月在一次執勤的時候，也是落海4位，其中有3位就是我們的船員，好在那個時候總數是3艘船，所以全部都救得起來。所以海巡同仁在執法的時候知道自己也是在搏命，因此跟委員報告，絕對不可能說我們的船比它小的情況下，我們的同仁會想要去撞這艘船，這個絕對不會是事實……"],["陳委員雪生：管主任委員……"],["管主任委員碧玲：是，一定，跟委員報告。"],["陳委員雪生：我不會幫海巡講話，也不會幫大陸講話……"],["管主任委員碧玲：我們案情就是請檢察官來還原。"],["陳委員雪生：我在持平的立場，是說這種悲劇發生了……"],["管主任委員碧玲：是，我們很遺憾。"],["陳委員雪生：不是我們樂意見到的。"],["管主任委員碧玲：是的。"],["陳委員雪生：今天我們希望把法律的部分跟人道的部分，分為兩部分來處理。"],["管主任委員碧玲：我們一直都是希望朝向人道、撫慰的方式，朝向這裡一起來談判，但是整個談判的環境，我方是如此，但是對方我們也希望是如此。"],["陳委員雪生：因為大陸老百姓他搞不清楚狀況，群情激憤啊！所以目前在金廈海域有白船在追逐我們海巡的事情。所以我們海巡在這個時候需要忍耐，我們戒備就好了。"],["管主任委員碧玲：從事件發生以後，我也特別指示，一定是冷靜、理智來進行我們常態性的巡護……"],["陳委員雪生：我們低調……"],["管主任委員碧玲：是，事實上目前……"],["陳委員雪生：不要繼續挑釁。"],["管主任委員碧玲：沒有，海巡不會挑釁。"],["陳院長建仁：我們從來沒有挑釁。"],["管主任委員碧玲：海巡不會挑釁。"],["陳委員雪生：像周署長最近做的事情很好，對不對？"],["管主任委員碧玲：我指派他去上香……"],["陳委員雪生：就人命的部分，我們跟他道歉嘛，這部分有什麼關係？"],["管主任委員碧玲：我特別指派他要到金門去，然後請他上香，他也接見了家屬，他都做了。"],["陳委員雪生：好，謝謝。我想借用總質詢的時間……"],["管主任委員碧玲：我們很希望在這個氣氛之下能夠有進展，但是有很多提出來希望我們去做的事情，事實上真的是很難，我們很希望、很希望趕快回到人道、撫慰……"],["陳委員雪生：謝謝，管主任委員，謝謝，好不好？"],["管主任委員碧玲：謝謝。"],["陳委員雪生：這件事情我在這邊再次提醒……"],["管主任委員碧玲：是，謝謝委員，謝謝委員。"],["陳委員雪生：我們跟大陸不要為了小事情把兩岸人民的感情造成一種傷害，好不好？"],["管主任委員碧玲：是，我瞭解，委員也幫了很多忙……"],["陳委員雪生：金門跟馬祖我們跟彼岸非常地好。"],["管主任委員碧玲：縣政府跟縣議會也都幫了很多忙，我們都非常地感謝，我們很遺憾。"],["陳委員雪生：好，我們也希望一直做潤滑劑……"],["管主任委員碧玲：是，我們很希望趕快。"],["陳委員雪生：希望能夠解決這方面問題……"],["管主任委員碧玲：是，我們很希望在人道、撫慰的部分，集中到人道、撫慰的部分，朝向這裡我們好好地協商，然後來解決這件事情，我們有很大的誠意。"],["陳委員雪生：好，希望管主任委員您儘快地把這件事情平復，好不好？謝謝你。"],["管主任委員碧玲：我們很努力，我們很努力。"],["陳委員雪生：繼續我想請教院長……"],["陳院長建仁：是。"],["陳委員雪生：飛安很重要吧？"],["陳院長建仁：飛安，當然。"],["陳委員雪生：飛行安全如果沒有的話，我們寧可把機場關閉嘛，對不對？"],["陳院長建仁：是，當然。"],["陳委員雪生：我們也不一定要飛，會造成人命的話，是不是？"],["陳院長建仁：是。"],["陳委員雪生：85年4月5號，我們馬祖發生空難，國華航空飛機失事，6個人死亡，其中包含我們前任楊綏生縣長也在飛機上，他是逃命出去的，甚至還救了一些人，我們非常感佩。","民國86年8月10號，國華航空又失事了，16個人全數罹難，其中包含了我弟弟、我弟媳婦、我姪女、我親家母5個人，16個人，我們家占了五分之一，所以這種悲痛不是那種沒坐過飛機的人……有些人沒坐過飛機，有些人不敢坐飛機，有一些人有懼高症，那種痛苦不是向那些人能夠形容的。我為什麼要去選立法委員？我就是為了這件事情！我不停地呼籲、不停地呼籲我們的機場要改善，這很重要。","好，110年5月10號我們有一架飛機因為南竿機場側風，它的右輪打到頭端以後降落，機場爆胎，所幸人員安全，所以這一些都是全國最不安全的機場，比較不安全的機場好了啦！應該是馬祖的南竿機場跟北竿機場，院長您承認這件事嗎？"],["陳院長建仁：我想南竿跟北竿機場確實是有可以精進的地方。"],["陳委員雪生：下去的時候看到側風會怕啊！是不是能夠安全降落……"],["陳院長建仁：是。"],["陳委員雪生：會不會歪掉？這是我們心中的痛嘛！是不是？所以目視機場到目前為止，因為氣候的因素、天候的因素，南北竿的航班經常停飛，10年來一共有3,625架次無法起降，天候的因素，側風風太大、霧太大、一陣霧飄來，立榮航空有3,593架次，華信航空有32架次無法降落，所以北竿機場擴建，我從85年當第三屆國大代表的時候就已經提出北竿機場改善，因為那時候就是我弟弟飛機失事；90年到98年，時任縣長，正好我當縣長，我更強力地推動北竿機場的改善方案；103年雪生要求行政院要給馬祖一個安全的機場、3C的機場；到104年民航局提出來了，馬祖北竿3C機場綜建規劃方案；111年行政院核定原則支持這件事情；112年7月通過環評的審查，環境影響評估通過了；到現在113年2月15號，最近國發會開一個會，找了我們縣長、鄉長開了一個會，表示審查已經差不多了，要送到行政院去核定。去年10月6號本席質詢院長的時候，院長怎麼回答我？我放一片影片給您看好不好？","（播放影片）"],["陳委員雪生：好，院長您在10月6號你回答我嘛！說要核定。"],["陳院長建仁：對，那現在委員的投影片也講說現在國發會已經審議完，我請……"],["陳委員雪生：我相信院長你還沒看過，還沒看過……"],["陳院長建仁：對，我請……"],["龔主任委員明鑫：報告委員，因為2月15號我們大概原則上有召開會議，大概原則是通過了嘛！裡面大家有提議的唯一有一些concern的就是機場在維修的時間，現在大概預估要七年多，大家覺得這個時間可能比較長，是不是就是請交通部這邊再跟民航局再討論一下，它實施的工序也好或方法也好或夜間施工等等的一些情況，看能不能把那個時間再縮短，我們大概就希望這個想好以後大概2月底就會報還給我們，我們就儘快地報給行政院，行政院就可以核定。"],["陳委員雪生：好，龔主委，你講得很好，您在開的會裡面，北竿機場改建的時程要多遠我告訴你，第一期要11年9個月，第一期幹什麼呢？用地取得跟設計要4年6個月，那時候我這一任又卸任了，我又看不到了，第二、工期要7年3個月，也就是一共要11年9個月，這是第一期的部分，還有第二期。第二期是什麼呢？新航站的工程需要蓋多久呢？10年3個月，一共加起來要多久呢？要24年2個月。院長先生，你幾歲了啊？"],["陳院長建仁：我九十幾歲了。"],["陳委員雪生：我還看得到嗎？這太過分了吧！"],["陳院長建仁：我想委員……"],["陳委員雪生：你們那麼多的部會首長在這邊，蓋個馬祖機場要24年，你們聽得下去嗎？"],["陳院長建仁：所以委員，剛才我們龔主委才說希望交通部再檢討一下工期建設的時間，是不是能跟廠商一起考慮怎樣縮短，這是有必要的。"],["龔主任委員明鑫：報告委員，第一期的部分只要機場的延長跟改善做好以後，安全就沒有問題。第二期您剛才提到新的航站部分，要配合……"],["陳委員雪生：你蓋50年、100年關我什麼事啊？我已經死翹翹了。"],["龔主任委員明鑫：沒有，這是第一期的部分，工期七年多蓋完以後，這個新跑道就可以開始營運，只是我們希望7年3個月可不可以再縮短。"],["陳委員雪生：不是，全世界的機場有沒有蓋過二十幾年的？哪個機場是這樣蓋的？蓋二十幾年耶！"],["陳院長建仁：好，我想我們……"],["陳委員雪生：北京還是杜拜嗎？還是哪裡？華盛頓嗎？有蓋二十幾年的喔？"],["陳院長建仁：委員，我們請部長做簡單的回復，好不好？"],["王部長國材：跟委員報告，現在這有一個環環相扣的關係，第一個，南竿機場要遷移到風山，我要炸山，然後為了這個跑道延伸350公尺，我必須填海，所以我現在的想法是炸山、填海把它做出來。剛才談到7年3個月是因為跑道的南端在填海的時候，它會有一些施工以及在某個程度要壓土的時候，可能會有2公尺高……"],["陳委員雪生：部長，我不聽那麼多。"],["王部長國材：我的意思是說……"],["陳委員雪生：蓋機場一共要多久？你跟我講就好了啦！"],["王部長國材：我跟委員報告……"],["陳委員雪生：你講1234、ABCD要30年、50年，我聽不下去了啦！"],["王部長國材：我跟委員報告，我覺得用地取得還有設計的階段，如果縣政府跟我們民航局來溝通，我想可以把4年6個月縮短。工期的部分，我們也想辦法來縮短，因為剛才看到在北竿的飛機事實上不多，所以它施工的空隙應該會比較多，這部分我已經跟民航局討論過。也就是說，第一個是11年9個月怎麼縮短，我們現在已經有討論一些了，第二個因為新航廈……"],["陳委員雪生：還有細設、還要細設嘛！"],["王部長國材：對，就是用地取得跟細設的時間跟縣政府討論……"],["陳院長建仁：可以縮短。"],["王部長國材：如果可以縮短就縮短。"],["陳委員雪生：院長，你告訴我什麼時候能夠核定？"],["陳院長建仁：核定的話，就是他們……"],["陳委員雪生：10月6日講的話……"],["陳院長建仁：剛才講2月底送過來，我們3月初就來核定。"],["龔主任委員明鑫：我們希望交通部民航局跟縣政府這邊談好，2月底回復給我們以後，我們就會回復行政院。"],["陳委員雪生：院長，可以嗎？"],["陳院長建仁：對，我們3月份會來核定，但問題就是說……"],["陳委員雪生：這有錄音的，你要注意喔！"],["陳院長建仁：是，剛才就講過，因為他們還在等民航局把相關的時程再做一個檢討，我們的目的都是一樣，就是希望可以把這個期程縮短。"],["陳委員雪生：回去討論，蓋6年不得了了嘛！"],["陳院長建仁：我也覺得太久了。"],["陳委員雪生：蓋二十幾年啊！"],["陳院長建仁：不過這個工程我們也要瞭解確實有它的困難度，所以我們儘可能由專家審查，看看這樣的工期縮短……"],["陳委員雪生：填海才20米啊！"],["陳院長建仁：對，填海。"],["陳委員雪生：20米的水深，填海出去350公尺，需要蓋二十幾年？"],["王部長國材：我跟委員報告，的確民航局在估這個時間，第一個在離島，一般的營造廠商不願意過去，它一定要談到這個問題……"],["陳委員雪生：部長，我到交通委會還會問你這個問題。"],["王部長國材：對，所以我想說我們來檢討……"],["陳委員雪生：今天先不要浪費這個時間，好不好？"],["王部長國材：對、對、對。"],["陳委員雪生：院長，你答復我，兩個禮拜之內核定？"],["陳院長建仁：3月份，對。"],["陳委員雪生：3月份？3月1號到3月30號有30天耶。"],["陳院長建仁：我們收到民航局……"],["陳委員雪生：你10月6號就跟我講核定了。"],["陳院長建仁：對，就是國發會把這個資料送到行政院來，我們會儘快核定。"],["陳委員雪生：這種事情已經辦7、8年了，8、9年了啦！"],["陳院長建仁：會，我們會儘快。"],["陳委員雪生：你要慢慢拖，不是儘快……"],["陳院長建仁：不會、不會，我……"],["陳委員雪生：兩個禮拜，好不好？"],["陳院長建仁：我們儘快努力。"],["陳委員雪生：可以完成嘛！龔主委，你那邊的手續都已經差不多了嘛？"],["龔主任委員明鑫：是。"],["陳委員雪生：去報行政院秘書長，秘書長送上去給院長看一下就差不多了。"],["龔主任委員明鑫：是。"],["陳委員雪生：需要那麼久嗎？"],["陳院長建仁：對，我們就等待相關的意見，我們會來催促，好不好？"],["陳委員雪生：好，這個機場沒問題了。第二個，我請教一下南北竿大橋，從106年一直扯到現在，106年都多少年了？這個案子綜合規劃已經完成了，跟機場一樣，一直在那邊拖，你們國發會的講法是什麼呢？說看南竿機場運量怎麼樣，龔主委，我告訴你，南竿機場是個非常危險的機場，它的進場那個側風的地方已經改善到極致了，不安全的機場你不用關閉嗎？不安全的機場你讓它繼續飛嗎？要等到出事了，縣長下臺、院長下臺，是不是這樣？向國人道歉，要搞到這樣的地步嗎？我不希望有這樣的事情發生。所以你要做南竿機場的話，這個大橋一定要做嘛！你大橋不做，北竿機場你現在做十幾年，我們那邊老百姓快炸鍋了「蓋個機場要十幾年，我不蓋了，我寧可去掉飛機也沒關係啊！我要忍受十幾年，我生意都不要做了嗎？」不是陣痛期，這是長痛的，要十幾年，你北竿機場在做，北竿機場老百姓要到南竿坐飛機，那北竿機場做完以後呢？南竿機場又要到北竿去坐飛機，那南竿機場怎麼辦？又來了，問題又來了，所以這個橋的問題一定要解決嘛！沒關係，你機場核定以後，我希望橋的問題，我們來討論，我們來討論橋的事情，橋一定要做，橋一定要做，我想你行政部門不做，我們立法院來推，我會逼著你們做，你橋一定要做，所以橋的細設也很簡單，誰說要做什麼600億？龔主委，誰講的600億？"],["龔主任委員明鑫：報告委員，現在因為上一次院長指示說，尋找第三方比較客觀的來重新評估，包括技術上，還有經費上，那我們現在也已經招標了，就是英國的一個工程顧問公司，全世界排名大概第11名。"],["陳委員雪生：這個話是你們國發會傳出來要600億。"],["龔主任委員明鑫：不是，所以就是說要從第三方……"],["陳委員雪生：蔡總統也是誤聽你們的600億，世曦講288億啊！"],["龔主任委員明鑫：不是、不是我傳的……"],["陳委員雪生：世曦，人家是世曦，世曦比你專業吧？"],["龔主任委員明鑫：所以……因為它深到60公尺，那個是我們沒有做過的，所以這個還要第三方技術上的評估，所以我們已經有這樣的評估了。"],["陳委員雪生：照你這樣講，世曦這個單位就不要了嘛！要這個單位幹什麼？"],["龔主任委員明鑫：對，所以第三方嘛！"],["陳委員雪生：還有技術性，世曦也說可行啊！它說可行啊！沒有說不可行啊！是你們在那邊講不可行，我很奇怪勒！你們找世曦開了會了嗎？也沒有啊！這個事情我們到交通委員會再討論啦！"],["龔主任委員明鑫：是。"],["陳委員雪生：還有高雄航線，高雄航線我在選舉期間，連江縣民進黨黨部主委一直講說，高雄航線他去連署，連署7,000個人，你連署8萬人也沒用啊！航空公司飛不飛很重要啊！立榮航空不飛，國華、華信、華航你叫它飛嘛！部長，你能不能找民航局？我上次已經講過了，民航局召集嘛！用包機的方式、用其他的方式去處理嘛！你可以處理嗎？"],["王部長國材：跟委員報告，現在就是用這個方向，就是說馬祖高雄的航線在94年斷掉，當時就是運量不足。"],["陳委員雪生：運量怎麼不足呢？我負責嘛！"],["王部長國材：當時啦！當時的……"],["陳委員雪生：當時，那現在可以了啊！"],["王部長國材：然後現在民航局事實上除了立榮以外，也找了像華信，都討論過了。"],["陳委員雪生：我們除了老百姓、除了觀光客，阿兵哥的占比在南部是50%，還不止。"],["王部長國材：對。"],["陳委員雪生：阿兵哥也是回家的路啊！講了老半天，你們也聽不下去，我叫了老半天。"],["王部長國材：我們跟航空公司做過討論，它們是完全沒有意願。"],["陳委員雪生：民進黨地方黨部方向搞錯了嘛！你要找航空公司啊！"],["王部長國材：現在先用包機，先用包機。"],["陳委員雪生：你們能不能找一下，好不好？"],["王部長國材：包機的方式我想跟連江縣政府這邊來討論一下，怎麼樣做一些獎勵的措施，這個可能比較可行，等包機有運量以後，再恢復定期航線。"],["陳委員雪生：好，部長，你請回，我要問一下我們院長。","院長對部立醫院很熟嘛！醫療系統。"],["陳院長建仁：喔！醫院。"],["陳委員雪生：在選舉期間，我們的連江縣黨部主委李問先生，我很謝謝他，他說問了王必勝次長同意馬祖改為部立醫院，您的看法如何？部立醫院只是換個招牌，「縣立」兩個字改為「部立」就好了嗎？不是這樣哦！人員、組織、編制、醫藥、病房，對不對？"],["陳院長建仁：對。"],["陳委員雪生：什麼神經外科、神經內科，這些都要準備，人員要增加耶！部長，你回答我好了。"],["薛部長瑞元：有關於部立醫院，就是說……"],["陳委員雪生：次長有沒有答應？"],["薛部長瑞元：目前的話是沒有，因為……"],["陳委員雪生：沒有，那你就騙人囉！"],["薛部長瑞元：沒有，因為縣政府那邊不是很贊成，主要是地方……"],["陳委員雪生：我們縣政府的兩個院長，也就是兩個縣長是院長的學生劉增應啊。"],["陳院長建仁：對，增應。"],["陳委員雪生：他們覺得我們地方很小，金門跟澎湖實施得不是很順暢，馬祖這個地方行之有年，非常地好，不錯啊！但李問先生跑去講說民進黨王必勝次長答應改為部立醫院，部長，有沒有這回事？"],["薛部長瑞元：並沒有直接說所謂答應改為部立醫院，而是說這個部分必須還要再研議。"],["陳委員雪生：他說答應了啊！"],["薛部長瑞元：所以我們在1月的時候，部裡面有派人過去縣政府跟縣長談過這個事情。目前的話……"],["陳委員雪生：談過？沒有談過，有談過的話縣長會跟我講，我們縣長如果有談過，一定會告訴我！"],["薛部長瑞元：1月17日有去拜訪……"],["陳委員雪生：是誰？王必勝次長嗎？"],["薛部長瑞元：應該是我們醫福會……"],["陳委員雪生：我要問的是王次長，王次長有沒有答應？"],["薛部長瑞元：這沒有……"],["陳委員雪生：沒關係，我會到衛環委員會去問。"],["薛部長瑞元：沒有說直接答應。"],["陳委員雪生：你們不回答我，我一定查個水落石出。好，請你回去。"],["薛部長瑞元：好，謝謝。"],["陳委員雪生：我要問我們國防部邱部長。","院長，它的靶場設在我們的行政中心，長照已經蓋好了、醫院蓋好了、國中蓋好了、國小蓋好了，在中間打靶，槍打來打去。院長，你聽得進去嗎？這個事情我有問過邱部長，邱部長的問題在哪裡，你知道嗎？代拆代建，我說清朝的靶場，現在是民國了，現代化了，那個地用推土機推一推，弄個靶紙，就從這邊打過去，是這樣的打法，不是像現在警察在室內就可以打了，打了以後靶紙自動彈回來，看看靶心有沒有打中，部長，是不是這樣？"],["邱部長國正：我跟委員報告……"],["陳委員雪生：你國防部沒錢，你也講嘛！行政院主計長也在，你能不能另外撥點錢？國防部預算很緊湊我知道啊，他們裡面那個馬路，我當縣長時還是我幫他們鋪的，我鋪了很多條，國防部哪有錢鋪馬路？沒有錢鋪嘛！所以這個靶場是代遷代建，我們縣政府窮，你也知道。","院長，一個是澎湖，一個是馬祖，金門有個酒廠在那個地方，你說靶場搬就搬，有什麼困難？它那個酒多賣兩瓶就有了，但馬祖沒有啊！只有扣我們公務人員薪水拿去做靶場啊。所以邱部長說沒辦法，後來答應我說兩年，兩年了，到現在你們沒動靜耶，我們縣政府幫你都預定好了……"],["邱部長國正：報告委員，我跟您做個說明好不好？我知道委員在這幾個會期中都提到靶場的問題，事實上我們也很積極，我們也編組到三個點去看，我想縣政府也很清楚，有風山、有坂山，還有一個大沃，這幾個地方經過評估以後，我們選的這個點因為有些困難，所以我們3月5日還要再開會，我跟我們同仁交代，我們針對問題，不要讓人家覺得我們在拖，沒有在拖，一直在積極運作。但剛才委員已經點出幾個問題來，我覺得這在後面都可以談，那幾個點選擇之後，有些問題可能要麻煩縣政府先處理完，才能夠走下一步。"],["陳委員雪生：都處理了，剩下你們，你們要代拆代建，就這四個字而已。"],["邱部長國正：代拆代建也是問題之一，其他……"],["陳委員雪生：我們都處理好了，軍方也知道在什麼地方，軍方也不敢講話，大隊怎麼敢講話，一定是國防部才講話嘛……"],["邱部長國正：國防部不敢講話，因為有一些問題……"],["陳委員雪生：那你們現在講代拆代建這四個字，代拆代建這個問題又困在那裡了。邱部長，我們兩個感情不錯吧！"],["邱部長國正：是，感情很好。"],["陳委員雪生：國防部跟縣政府感情也不錯吧！"],["邱部長國正：對，也很好，軍民一家嘛。"],["陳委員雪生：我也注意到了，你到馬祖去，我也沒送你什麼酒，你還送我水果，這種善意我們都感激在心嘛！是不是？"],["邱部長國正：是。"],["陳委員雪生：我們對部隊也是很照顧的耶！"],["邱部長國正：的確，我知道，委員對於部隊真的很照顧。"],["陳委員雪生：像最近我還逼人事總處說你們什麼意思啊？在那邊的阿兵哥確實很辛苦。所以拜託部長，這個事情你注意一下，不要為了這個事情影響到軍民的感情，是不是！長照在那裡、學校在那裡，你每天那個子彈在那邊砰、砰、砰、砰、砰！你說呢？"],["邱部長國正：我們也講不過去，所以我有很多方法，把打靶的時間給降低了、還有整個約束也在做了……"],["陳委員雪生：部長，將心比心，好不好？"],["邱部長國正：是！"],["陳委員雪生：還有缺肉，上次選舉期間也來了，部隊沒肉吃，沒肉吃關我縣政府什麼事啊？因為你們那個副食供應中心跟臺灣的肉商有簽約嘛，你的肉一定要跟他買嘛，我們馬祖地區的肉你不能買啊，那問題就出來啦，你們有跟那個行商─開船的公司有簽約嘛，它船正好壞掉了，所以肉也沒辦法送、船也沒辦法開，所以沒肉吃，一扯扯到縣政府，說你們那個馬祖立法委員混蛋！我們阿兵哥沒飯吃、沒肉吃！跟我們什麼關係啊？"],["邱部長國正：我跟委員報告，沒有、沒有，不會這樣，那個我跟委員說明一下……"],["陳委員雪生：沒有這個事啊！"],["邱部長國正：我們也在強化，怎麼樣強化？一個它原本的儲存量我們把它給增加天數……"],["陳委員雪生：搞得陸軍司令還要去道歉。"],["邱部長國正：是，所以第二個就是我們現在那個副供站雖然沒有，但它的採購、在外離島的採購一切由部隊長自己作主就可以，我們沒有很大的限制喔，他完全可以……"],["陳委員雪生：部長，現在兵力也少了嘛，你跟民間去買就好了嘛……"],["邱部長國正：是，這他可以做的、可以做的。"],["陳委員雪生：讓他們吃一點生鮮的活豬肉，好不好？"],["邱部長國正：是。"],["陳委員雪生：不要吃清朝那種冰得硬邦邦的，都冰了好幾年的肉耶！"],["邱部長國正：是，我瞭解，這我們同意他在地方上來採購。"],["陳委員雪生：那個魚都已經變成化石了，化石用油炸一炸、放點辣椒，這些阿兵哥也是我們的子弟嘛，好不好？"],["邱部長國正：我瞭解。"],["陳委員雪生：有機會我請你吃一下清朝的化石的帶魚給你吃，好不好？你吃吃看你就知道了。"],["邱部長國正：我吃過，我在馬祖服務過，我知道。"],["陳委員雪生：部長，你注意一下，好不好？"],["邱部長國正：是。"],["陳委員雪生：還有最近一件事，部長跟主計長請回，我們教育部。教育部最近發生什麼事啊？炊事工友沒有了，5個變成2個，2個變成……2個人力沒辦法炒菜啊，好了！我們馬祖四鄉五島、離島啊，小孩子沒飯吃了，沒飯吃以後，外面叫賣的什麼攤販、賣香腸、打香腸的一堆就在校門口，這下生意可好了，學生家長就反彈。不過那天在現場，部長也跟我抱歉了，部長馬上把這問題解決了，63萬……給了兩百多萬，部長，以後這個事情啊……怎麼發現的呢？又是民進黨的連江縣黨部又在罵我啦，說你這個立委怎麼搞的、怎麼搞的，縣政府跟我什麼關係啊？這是你民進黨的單位啊、你的教育部啊、你的國立高中啊！關我們什麼事啊？部長，你以後注意一下嘛，好不好？學校的事情。"],["潘部長文忠：這個我要謝謝委員，因為委員在2月17號當地瞭解這個情形、信息之後……"],["陳委員雪生：不用，這改善了！"],["潘部長文忠：也召開很快的會議……"],["陳委員雪生：還有床鋪！床鋪1.8公尺改為2公尺，好不好？你注意一下，因為時間的關係，好不好？"],["潘部長文忠：這也謝謝委員……"],["陳委員雪生：好，謝謝院長、謝謝部長。"],["潘部長文忠：謝謝。"],["陳委員雪生：你們關心一下，好不好？謝謝。"],["陳院長建仁：好，謝謝。"],["主席：謝謝陳委員雪生的質詢。","接下來我們請張委員啓楷質詢。"]],"agenda":{"page_end":466,"meet_id":"院會-11-1-2","speakers":["韓國瑜","吳秉叡","丁學忠","黃珊珊","林岱樺","陳雪生","張啓楷","徐富癸","謝衣鳯","林國成","蔡其昌","萬美玲","黃秀芳","呂玉玲"],"page_start":371,"meetingDate":["2024-02-27"],"gazette_id":"1130401","agenda_lcidc_ids":["1130401_00011","1130401_00012"],"meet_name":"立法院第11屆第1會期第2次會議紀錄","content":"施政質詢\n對行政院院長提出施政方針及施政報告繼續質詢─繼續質詢─","agenda_id":"1130401_00013"}},"transcript":{"id":"149147","pyannote":{"name":"ronny","tool":"pyannote","data":{"url":"https://ivod.ly.gov.tw/Play/Clip/1M/149147","tool":"pyannote","id":"149147-pyannote"},"job_id":"pX2rUY563tHmolJY","queued_at":"2024-06-02 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\"zh\"}","srt":"1\n00:00:13,282 --> 00:00:27,647\n謝謝主席陳院長還有各部會社長大家早安是不是請主席請陳院長備詢阿凡請陳院長備詢陳委員早恭喜委員當選連任院長早安最近這幾天發生驚嚇隨遇大陸漁民不幸歷難的事情\n\n2\n00:00:41,263 --> 00:00:53,887\n陸海警闖金門禁限制水域,我們要加強取締,必要時與驅離。有沒有講這句話?我們確實在金門是有禁限水域,那在這個當有\n\n3\n00:01:16,999 --> 00:01:36,206\n因為事情一發生我非常關切金門的事情延伸到馬祖所以我們馬祖海巡的部分我也跟海巡隊長講我們保持警戒追逐的事情先暫時避免因為今下的事情還沒處理好\n\n4\n00:01:37,472 --> 00:02:02,447\n所以我們在兩馬鬧元宵的時候我們的縣長、議長也到彼岸去跟大陸領導我們在那邊氣氛都還不錯也就是金門馬祖我們關係還蠻好的雖然他們有三條海監船在我們離我們五海里的地方也在宣誓但是一切還蠻平和的那麼最近\n\n5\n00:02:03,961 --> 00:02:29,328\n我們的海巡署周署長也做了一些動作也比較低調一點我是建議就是說在法律跟人道的部分能夠把它切割畢竟人死為大大陸的珊瑚船也就是我們簡稱的白船白船是沒有牌照的他來這邊有兩個目的一個是我們金門馬祖是島礁比較多啊漁產比較多來釣魚的\n\n6\n00:02:32,495 --> 00:03:00,059\n一種是來割網的來竊盜的所以這個在海巡跟海警來講的話他們雙方在檯面下都有默契是共同打擊犯罪跟取締的目標但是海巡發生這件事情是漁船的魚尾勾到了底下據我的了解有可能是他的人掉到海裡去死亡也有可能是\n\n7\n00:03:00,492 --> 00:03:25,513\n我們海巡在執法過程中,我們的人掉在海裡面去死亡。這一種悲劇才會有的。像去年的4月在一次執勤的時候,也是落海四位,其中有三位就是我們的船員。那好在那個時候總數是三艘船,所以全部都救得起來。所以海巡同仁在執法的時候知道自己也是在搏命,所以跟委員報告,\n\n8\n00:03:27,094 --> 00:03:50,780\n絕對不可能說我們的船比他小的情況下,我們的同仁會想要去撞這艘船。這個絕對不會是。我也不會幫海軍講話,也不會幫大陸講話。我們案情就是請檢察官來懷疑。不是我們樂意建造的。今天我們希望把法律的部分跟人造的部分分為兩部分來處理。\n\n9\n00:03:51,860 --> 00:04:16,940\n我們一直都是希望朝向人道撫慰的方式,朝向這裡一起來談判。但是整個談判的環境,我方是如此,但是對方我們也希望是如此。目前在今夏海域有白船在追逐我們海巡的事情,所以我們海巡在這個時候我們需要讓人賴,我們戒備。\n\n10\n00:04:21,454 --> 00:04:38,733\n我們一直都從事件發生以後,我也特別指示,一定是冷靜理智來進行我們常態性的巡撫。是事實上目前……不要繼續挑釁了。沒有,我們從來沒有挑釁。周組長最近做的事情很好啊。\n\n11\n00:04:39,133 --> 00:05:05,351\n我指派他去上香我特別指派他要到金門去然後請他上香他也接見了家屬他都做了事我們很希望在這個氣氛之下能夠有進展但是事實上有很多提出來希望我們去做的事情事實上真的是很難那我們很希望很希望趕快回到人道福威這件事情我想\n\n12\n00:05:06,852 --> 00:05:35,471\n我在這邊再次提醒,我們跟大陸不要為了一點點小事情,反兩岸人民的感情造成一個犯罪。我了解,委員也幫了很多忙,縣政府跟縣議會也都幫了很多忙,我們都非常的感謝,我們很遺憾,我們很希望在人道府衛的部分,集中到人道的府衛的部分,朝向這裡我們好好的協商,然後來解決這件事情,我們有很大的誠意。\n\n13\n00:05:36,071 --> 00:06:04,577\n盡快的把這件事情平復好不好?我們很努力我們很努力那我繼續我想請教這個院長是飛安很重要吧飛安飛行安全如果沒有的話我們寧可把機場關閉嘛對不對?是當然我們也不一定要飛喔不造成人命的話是不是?是85年4月5號我們馬祖發生空難國華航空飛機失事6個人死亡\n\n14\n00:06:05,922 --> 00:06:31,410\n其中包含我們前任楊崔生現場也在飛機上他是逃命出去了甚至還救了一些人我們非常感佩民國86年8月10日國華航空又失事了16個人全數罹難其中包含了我弟弟我弟媳婦我子女我親家母5個人\n\n15\n00:06:33,832 --> 00:07:03,048\n十六個人我們家佔了五分之一所以這種悲痛不是那種沒坐過飛機的人有些人沒坐過飛機有些人不敢坐飛機有些人懼高症不是那種那種那一些人那個痛苦能夠形容的我為什麼要去選立法委員我就是為了這件事情我不停的呼籲不停的呼籲我們的機場要改善這很重要\n\n16\n00:07:03,851 --> 00:07:32,483\n好,110年5月10號我們有一架飛機因為南竿機場側風他的右輪打到頭端東山寶到頭端以後那麼降落機場爆胎所幸人員安全所以這一些都是全國最不安全的機場比較不安全的機場好了啦應該是馬祖倫南竿機場跟北竿機場\n\n17\n00:07:34,591 --> 00:08:00,361\n院長您承認這件事嗎?我想南岸跟北岸機場確實是有可以均勁的地方。所以下去的時候看到側風會怕啊?是不是能夠安全降落?會不會歪掉?這是我們心中的痛嘛,是不是?所以牧市機場到目前為止因為氣候的因素、天候的因素南岸北岸的航班經常停飛\n\n18\n00:08:02,054 --> 00:08:22,089\n十年來一共有三千六百二十五架次無法起降,天后的一柱,側風,風太大,霧太大,一陣霧飄來啊。利龍航空有三千五百九十三架次,華信航空有三十二架次,無法降落。所以北竿機場的擴建,我從85年\n\n19\n00:08:26,054 --> 00:08:55,200\n當第三屆國大代表的時候就已經提出北竿機場改善因為那時候就是我弟弟啊那時候飛機失事嘛90年到98年時任縣長正好我當縣長我可以強力的推動北竿機場的改善方案103年雪生要求行政院要給馬祖一個安全的機場山西的機場到104年民航局\n\n20\n00:08:56,021 --> 00:09:15,913\n提出來了馬祖北竿山西機場中建匯合方案。111年行政院合併原則支持這件事情。那麼112年7月通過環評的審查環境影響評估通過了。到現在113年2月15號最近國發會開了一個會找了我們縣長、鄉長開了一個會\n\n21\n00:09:25,202 --> 00:09:47,705\n表示審查已經差不多了,要送到行政院去核定。去年的11月10月6號本席質詢院長的時候,院長怎麼回答我?我放一片影片給您看好不好?我訂了一家無口人命在北竿機場失事。\n\n22\n00:09:49,246 --> 00:10:14,866\n所以北竿機場我請問你交通部、中華民國的政府,全台灣哪一座機場是這樣的機場?政府沒有責任把它做成安全的機場嗎?所以北竿機場第一優先要把它做成安全的機場,所以我們已經合了200億,將近200億我們已經合了,儘快把它完成,這個是我們最優先希望馬祖最先做的。然後北竿機場之外呢?\n\n23\n00:10:18,772 --> 00:10:41,523\n院長您在10月6日回答我,回答核定那現在委員的投影片也講說現在國會這已經審議完我相信院長你還沒看過還沒有我請那個報告委員因為2月15號我們大概原則上有召開會議大概原則通過了\n\n24\n00:10:42,603 --> 00:10:45,185\n請教防部再跟民航局討論一下\n\n25\n00:11:02,319 --> 00:11:29,375\n他實施的工序也好或方法也好或夜間施工等等的一些情況,看能不能把那個時間再縮短。那我們大概就希望這個想好以後大概二月底就會報還給我們,我們就盡快的付給行政院,行政院就可以核定。郭副主委,你講得很好。您在開的會裡面,北開機站改建時程要多遠,我告訴你齁,第一期\n\n26\n00:11:30,188 --> 00:11:45,900\n要11年9個月第一期第一期幹什麼呢用力取得這個設計要4年6個月那時候我這一任又卸任了我又看不到了\n\n27\n00:11:47,674 --> 00:12:13,852\n第二個工期要7年3個月也就是說移動要11年9個月這是第一期的部分還有第二期第二期什麼新航站的工程需要蓋多久10年3個月一共加起來要多久要24年的2個月\n\n28\n00:12:15,219 --> 00:12:30,683\n二十四年兩個月,院長先生你幾歲?我九十幾歲我還看得到嗎?這太過分了吧你們那麼多的各位首長在這邊蓋個馬祖機場要24年你們聽得下去嗎?\n\n29\n00:12:37,279 --> 00:12:51,694\n所以委員剛才我們才公主委才說我們希望這個交通部這邊再來檢討一下這個工期建設的期間是不是能夠跟廠商一起來考慮怎麼樣來說短這個是有必要的\n\n30\n00:12:54,276 --> 00:13:20,782\n報告委員因為第一期的部分那個部分只要機場的延長跟改善那個做好以後安全就沒有問題那第二期您剛才提到那個新的航站那個部分要配合你蓋50年100年關我什麼事啊沒有沒有就是第一期的部分那個工期7年多蓋完以後這個新的這個跑道就可以開始營運只是我們希望說那個7年3個月可不可以再縮短那你全世界機場有沒有蓋過20幾年了嘛哪一個機場是這樣蓋的\n\n31\n00:13:22,462 --> 00:13:26,668\n現在這個有一個環環相扣的關係第一個南岸機場的遷移要到豐山第一個我要炸山\n\n32\n00:13:39,520 --> 00:13:39,620\n﹚陳雪生\n\n33\n00:13:55,043 --> 00:13:55,864\n你跟我講就好了啦。\n\n34\n00:14:10,483 --> 00:14:15,029\n我跟委員報告我覺得用力取得還有設計的這個階段如果縣政府跟我們民進黨來溝通我想可以把4年6個月縮短\n\n35\n00:14:26,101 --> 00:14:53,399\n那供期的部分就是說我們想辦法來縮短就是說因為現在剛才看到在北竿的飛機事實上不多所以他應該施工的空隙會比較多這部分我已經跟民航局討論過也就是說第一個11年9個月怎麼縮短我們現在已經有一些在討論討論了那第二個因為新航下船還有細射吧對對對就是用地取得跟細射這個時間跟縣政府討論如果可以縮短縮短\n\n36\n00:14:57,302 --> 00:15:03,824\n合併的話就是他們剛才講二月底就做出來。那我三月初就來合併。\n\n37\n00:15:08,018 --> 00:15:32,267\n回覆給我們以後我們就會回覆行政院對我們3月份就會來核定了但是問題就是說在這有錄音的喔你要注意喔是是是剛才就講過因為他們還在等這個這個施工民航局把相關的這個時程再做一個檢討我們的目的都是一樣就是希望把這個期程可以縮短我去討論剛才六年\n\n38\n00:15:33,307 --> 00:15:48,011\n對啦,我也覺得太久了不過這個工程我們也要了解說這工程確實有它的困難度那所以我們盡可能的要專家來審查看看這樣的工期這天海啊,這20米啊,20米的水深\n\n39\n00:15:50,752 --> 00:16:11,802\n你填海出去填350公尺嘛我跟委員報告的確沒樣子在顧這個時間第一個在離島一般的營造廠商不願意過去他一定要談到這個問題所以我想說我們來檢討今天先不要浪費這個時間好不好月長你答覆我兩個禮拜之內核定\n\n40\n00:16:13,283 --> 00:16:42,289\n三月份啊,對啊三月份,三月一號、三月三十號有30天我們收到這個你十月六號能跟我講合併的對啦,這樣就是國發會這個資料送上到行政院來我們會盡快合併這一種事情已經辦了七八年了,八九年了會啦,我們會盡快你要慢慢拖,不是盡快,兩個禮拜好不好我們盡快努力嘛可以完成嘛\n\n41\n00:16:43,427 --> 00:17:11,016\n公主委,你那邊的手續都已經差不多啦,就報行政院秘書長嘛秘書長送他一個院長看一下就差不多了嘛對啦,我們就等待相關的意見,我們會來催促好不好好,這個機長沒問題啦齁第二個我請教一下這個南北竿大橋南北竿大橋從106年齁一直扯到現在,106年,多少年了?\n\n42\n00:17:13,138 --> 00:17:40,203\n這個案子綜合規劃已經完成了,跟機場一樣,一直在那邊拖。你們國發會的講法是什麼?是說看南竿機場運量怎麼樣?公主委我告訴你,南竿機場是一個非常危險的機場。它的進場那個側風那個地方,它已經改善到極致了。不安全的機場你不用關閉嗎?不安全的機場你讓它繼續飛嗎?\n\n43\n00:17:41,823 --> 00:18:09,639\n要等到出事了,縣長下臺,院長下臺,是不是這樣?向國人道歉,要搞到這樣的地步嗎?我不希望有這樣的事情發生。所以,你要坐南安高安機場的話,你這個大橋一定要坐嘛。你大橋不坐,你北安機場,你現在坐十幾年,我們那邊老闆已經快炸鍋了,蓋個機場要十幾年,我不蓋了,你可去吊飛機也沒關係。\n\n44\n00:18:10,936 --> 00:18:38,730\n我要忍痛十幾年,我生意都不要做了嗎?不是震動企業,這長痛了欸。要十幾年欸。那你北竿機場做完以後咧?你北竿機場在做,北竿機場老闆一定要到南竿坐飛機。那北竿機場做完以後咧?那南竿機場要到北竿去坐飛機。那南竿機場怎麼辦?又來了,問題又來了。所以這個橋的問題一定要解決嘛。沒關係,你機場確定以後。\n\n45\n00:18:40,325 --> 00:18:59,855\n我希望喬的問題我們來討論喬的事情喬一定要做我想你行政部門不做我們立法院來推我會逼著你們做你喬一定要做所以喬的細則也很簡單誰說要做什麼600億公主委誰講的600億\n\n46\n00:19:06,367 --> 00:19:24,233\n發言委員,因為上一次院長指示說,尋找第三方比較客觀的來重新評估,包括技術上還有經費上。那我們現在已經也招標了,就是國外的英國的一個工程顧問公司,全世界大概排名第11名。這話是你們國發會傳出來要600億。蔡總統也是誤聽你們的600億。\n\n47\n00:19:29,955 --> 00:19:55,636\n施西講288億啊,施西欸人家施西欸,一定比你專業吧。所以因為他那個,因為升到60公尺那個是我們沒有做過的,所以這個還要第三方的技術上的評估,所以我們已經有這樣的評估了。施西這個單位就不要了嘛,要這個單位幹什麼?還有技術系施西也說可行啊,他說可行啊。\n\n48\n00:19:56,172 --> 00:20:23,986\n沒有說不可行啊,是你們在那邊講不可行啊,我很奇怪咧。你們找世紀開了會了嗎?也沒有啊。這個事情我們到交通委員會再討論。還有,高雄航線,高雄航線我在選舉期間啊,民進黨黨部主委一直講說,高雄航線他去連署啊,連署7000個人,連署8萬人也沒用啊。\n\n49\n00:20:24,585 --> 00:20:33,418\n航空公司飛不飛很重要啊。例如航空不飛,國華、國慶、華航你叫他飛嘛,不打。\n\n50\n00:20:34,625 --> 00:21:03,696\n你能不能找民航局我上次已經講過了民航局召集嘛用包機的方式用其他的方式去處理嘛你可以處理嗎現在就是用這個方向就是說馬祖高雄的航線在94年斷掉那當時就是運量不足運量怎麼不足呢我負責嘛當時當時的那個當時那現在可以啦然後現在民航局事實上除了立龍以外也找了像華系我們除了老百姓除了觀光客阿兵哥的占比在南部是\n\n51\n00:21:06,641 --> 00:21:21,101\n欸50%欸還不止欸阿兵哥也是回家的路啊講了老半天你們也聽不下去我叫了老半天我們跟航空公司做過討論啦齁他們是完全沒有意願是民進黨民進黨黨部方向搞錯了嘛現在先用包機先用包機\n\n52\n00:21:22,406 --> 00:21:50,911\n你們能不能找一下嗎?好不好?包機的方式我想跟縣政府這邊,聯鄉縣政府來討論一下怎麼樣做一些這個獎勵的措施來做,這個可能比較可行。等包機有印量以後在這邊恢復定期航線。我要問一下我們院長,院長對部立院的手法,醫療系統。在選舉期間,我們的聯鄉縣黨部主委,你問先生,我很謝謝他。\n\n53\n00:21:52,162 --> 00:22:19,378\n他都為了王必勝次長,同意馬祖改為部立院,您看法如何?部立院只是換個招牌,現立兩個字改為部立就好了嗎?不是這樣齁?人員組織編制醫藥病房,是不是?什麼神經外科、神經內科,這些都要準備了勒?\n\n54\n00:22:20,034 --> 00:22:49,122\n人員要增加欸部長你回答我好了那有關於部立醫院就是說有沒有答應?市長有沒有答應?目前的話是沒有啦沒有?沒有就騙人囉沒有,那個因為縣政府那邊是不是很贊成主要是地方我們縣政府的兩個院長也是兩個縣長啊是院長的學生啊,劉振英啊對,振英\n\n55\n00:22:49,704 --> 00:23:07,138\n他們覺得我們地方很小嘛,是不是?金門跟澎湖實施的不是很順暢。馬魯這個地方行之有年啊,非常的好。不錯啊。李渭先生跑去講說民進黨王必勝次長答應改為部立院,有沒有這回事?\n\n56\n00:23:08,458 --> 00:23:21,546\n並沒有直接說所謂的答應改為不立,而是說這一個部分的話必須還要再研議。雖然我們在1月的時候,那部裡面有派人過去縣政府跟縣長談過這個事情。沒有談過,縣長有談過會跟我講。\n\n57\n00:23:27,511 --> 00:23:52,832\n我們會長如果有談過,一定會告訴我。一月十七那有去拜訪那個...黃碧珍部長嗎?應該是我...我要問的是王市長,王市長有沒有答應?這沒有...沒關係,我一個問完就問。今天顧問來我,我一定查個血絡指數。好,請你回去。我要問我們國防部部長,邱部長。還有一點時間。會長是\n\n58\n00:23:57,284 --> 00:24:22,236\n他的靶場設在我們的行政中心啊長照已經蓋好了醫院蓋好了國中蓋好了國小蓋好了在中間打靶槍打來打去院長你聽得進去嗎所以這個事情我有問過邱部長邱部長的問題在哪裡你知道嗎待拆待建我說清朝的靶場現在是民國啦現代化啦\n\n59\n00:24:26,803 --> 00:24:52,410\n那個是那個地推土地推一推有沒有弄個靶子啊就從那啪打過去是這樣打法的不是像現在現在那個警察你看在室內都可以打打了以後那個靶子自動彈回來看看有沒有打中靶心有沒有打中部長是不是這樣你國防部沒錢你也講嘛行政院主席長也在吧你另外能不能撥點錢啊\n\n60\n00:24:54,418 --> 00:25:21,058\n國防部預算很緊湊我知道啊他們裡面那個馬路啊我當縣長還是我幫他們鋪的我鋪了很多條啦國防部哪有錢鋪馬路咧沒有錢鋪嘛所以他這個靶場說代遷代鑒我們縣政府窮的你也知道一個是澎湖一個是馬祖金門有個酒廠在那個地方你說靶場搬就搬有什麼困難啊\n\n61\n00:25:22,025 --> 00:25:30,980\n他那個酒多賣兩瓶就有了馬祖沒有啊你知道只有扣我們公務人員薪水拿去做保藏啊所以邱部長說沒辦法後來答應我說兩年\n\n62\n00:25:35,081 --> 00:25:58,727\n兩年到現在你們沒動靜欸,我們憲法幫你都預定好了沒有?報告委員我跟您說明好不好,我知道委員幾個會期當中提到拔草的問題,事實上我們也很積極,我們也編組到三個點去看,我想現在政府也很清楚,有封山、有板山、還有個大臥。這幾個地方經過評估以後啊,我們選那個點裡面有些困難,我們好像3月5號還要再開會嘛。\n\n63\n00:25:59,727 --> 00:26:21,892\n我跟我們同仁交代,我們針對問題不要讓人家覺得我們在拖,沒有在拖,一直在積極運作。但剛才委員已經點出幾個問題來,我覺得這個在後面都可以談,都可以談。那幾個點選擇了以後,有些問題可能要麻煩縣政府要先處理完,才能夠走下一步。都處理了,甚至像你們現在,你們要代菜代鍵。\n\n64\n00:26:22,677 --> 00:26:40,885\n就四個字而已。帶線也是問題之一啦。我們要處理好啊。軍方也知道在什麼地方啦。軍方也不敢講話。大隊怎麼敢講話呢?一定不會不敢講話。不是不敢講話,因為有一些問題。那你們現在在帶拆、再見四個字。帶拆、再見這個問題又困在哪裡啦?邱部長。\n\n65\n00:26:41,912 --> 00:27:03,182\n我們兩個感情不錯吧?國防部跟憲政府感情也不錯嗎?也很好,對。距離一家嘛。我也注意到啦,你看你到馬祖區,我也沒送你什麼酒,你還送我水果。這種善意我們的感情在心嘛,是不是?我們對部隊也是很照顧的。的確我知道,這個委員對部隊真的很照顧。在那邊的阿明哥確實很辛苦。所以拜託部長,\n\n66\n00:27:10,714 --> 00:27:20,776\n你這個事情注意一下,不要為了這個事情影響到軍民的感情嘛,是不是?長照在那裡,學校在那裡,你每天那個子彈砰砰砰砰砰砰砰砰砰砰砰砰砰砰砰砰砰砰砰砰砰砰砰砰砰砰砰砰砰砰砰砰砰砰砰砰砰砰砰砰砰砰砰砰砰砰砰砰砰砰砰砰砰砰砰砰砰砰砰砰砰砰砰砰砰砰砰砰砰砰砰砰砰砰砰砰砰砰砰砰砰砰砰砰砰砰砰砰砰砰�\n\n67\n00:27:39,502 --> 00:28:08,199\n沒有事關我縣政府什麼事啊因為你們那個富時供應中心跟臺灣的肉商有簽約嘛你的肉一定要跟他買嘛我們馬祖地區的肉你不能買啊那問題又出來了你們有跟那個航商啊開船的啊公司有簽約嘛他船正好壞掉了所以肉也沒辦法送啊船也沒辦法開所以沒肉吃一扯扯到縣政府\n\n68\n00:28:09,044 --> 00:28:15,465\n說你們那個馬祖立法委員混蛋阿兵哥沒飯吃沒肉吃跟我們什麼關係啊\n\n69\n00:28:20,399 --> 00:28:43,829\n我們也在強化,怎麼樣強化?一個他原本的儲存量我們把他給增加天數。搞得陸軍司令還要去道歉。第二個就是我們現在這個復共站雖然沒有,但他的採購在外離島採購一切有,他部隊長自己做主就可以,我們沒有很大的限制。現在兵力也少了嘛,你跟民間去買就好了嘛。\n\n70\n00:28:44,789 --> 00:29:06,858\n讓他們吃一點生鮮的活豬肉好不好?不要吃青草那種冰得硬梆梆的冰得急,都冰了好幾年那肉欸!那個魚都已經變成化石了化石用油炸一炸放點辣椒,這些阿兵哥也是我們的子弟嘛好不好?有機會我請你吃一下青草的化石的帶魚給你吃好不好?\n\n71\n00:29:07,894 --> 00:29:34,503\n你吃吃看你就知道了。我吃過,我在馬祖服務過,我知道。部長你注意一下好不好?是。好,還最近一次,部長跟主席黨請回,我們教育部。教育部勒,最近發生什麼事啊?崔世功有沒有啦?五個變成兩個,兩個變成勒?兩個人力沒辦法炒菜啊。好啦,我們馬祖四鄉五島離島啊。\n\n72\n00:29:36,616 --> 00:30:06,234\n小孩子沒飯吃了沒飯吃以後外面叫賣的什麼攤販賣香腸打香腸一堆就在校門口這一下生意搞好了學生家長就反彈不過那天在現場部長也跟我抱歉了部長馬上把這問題解決了63萬給了200多萬部長以後這個事情怎麼發現的又是民進黨的連江縣黨部又在罵我了說你這個立委怎麼搞的怎麼搞的\n\n73\n00:30:06,761 --> 00:30:30,267\n現在政府跟我什麼關係啊?這是你民進黨的單位啊?你的教育部啊?你的國立高中啊?關我們什麼事啊?部長你有注意一下好不好?學校的事情。這個我要謝謝委員,因為委員在217號當地了解這個情形,也召開那個很快的會議。還有船舶,船舶1.8公尺改為2公尺好不好?你注意一下。\n\n74\n00:30:44,781 --> 00:30:48,165\n謝謝陳委員雪生的質詢。接下來我們請張委員齊凱質詢。\n\n","tsv":"start\tend\ttext\n13282\t27647\t謝謝主席陳院長還有各部會社長大家早安是不是請主席請陳院長備詢阿凡請陳院長備詢陳委員早恭喜委員當選連任院長早安最近這幾天發生驚嚇隨遇大陸漁民不幸歷難的事情\n41263\t53887\t陸海警闖金門禁限制水域,我們要加強取締,必要時與驅離。有沒有講這句話?我們確實在金門是有禁限水域,那在這個當有\n76999\t96206\t因為事情一發生我非常關切金門的事情延伸到馬祖所以我們馬祖海巡的部分我也跟海巡隊長講我們保持警戒追逐的事情先暫時避免因為今下的事情還沒處理好\n97472\t122447\t所以我們在兩馬鬧元宵的時候我們的縣長、議長也到彼岸去跟大陸領導我們在那邊氣氛都還不錯也就是金門馬祖我們關係還蠻好的雖然他們有三條海監船在我們離我們五海里的地方也在宣誓但是一切還蠻平和的那麼最近\n123961\t149328\t我們的海巡署周署長也做了一些動作也比較低調一點我是建議就是說在法律跟人道的部分能夠把它切割畢竟人死為大大陸的珊瑚船也就是我們簡稱的白船白船是沒有牌照的他來這邊有兩個目的一個是我們金門馬祖是島礁比較多啊漁產比較多來釣魚的\n152495\t180059\t一種是來割網的來竊盜的所以這個在海巡跟海警來講的話他們雙方在檯面下都有默契是共同打擊犯罪跟取締的目標但是海巡發生這件事情是漁船的魚尾勾到了底下據我的了解有可能是他的人掉到海裡去死亡也有可能是\n180492\t205513\t我們海巡在執法過程中,我們的人掉在海裡面去死亡。這一種悲劇才會有的。像去年的4月在一次執勤的時候,也是落海四位,其中有三位就是我們的船員。那好在那個時候總數是三艘船,所以全部都救得起來。所以海巡同仁在執法的時候知道自己也是在搏命,所以跟委員報告,\n207094\t230780\t絕對不可能說我們的船比他小的情況下,我們的同仁會想要去撞這艘船。這個絕對不會是。我也不會幫海軍講話,也不會幫大陸講話。我們案情就是請檢察官來懷疑。不是我們樂意建造的。今天我們希望把法律的部分跟人造的部分分為兩部分來處理。\n231860\t256940\t我們一直都是希望朝向人道撫慰的方式,朝向這裡一起來談判。但是整個談判的環境,我方是如此,但是對方我們也希望是如此。目前在今夏海域有白船在追逐我們海巡的事情,所以我們海巡在這個時候我們需要讓人賴,我們戒備。\n261454\t278733\t我們一直都從事件發生以後,我也特別指示,一定是冷靜理智來進行我們常態性的巡撫。是事實上目前……不要繼續挑釁了。沒有,我們從來沒有挑釁。周組長最近做的事情很好啊。\n279133\t305351\t我指派他去上香我特別指派他要到金門去然後請他上香他也接見了家屬他都做了事我們很希望在這個氣氛之下能夠有進展但是事實上有很多提出來希望我們去做的事情事實上真的是很難那我們很希望很希望趕快回到人道福威這件事情我想\n306852\t335471\t我在這邊再次提醒,我們跟大陸不要為了一點點小事情,反兩岸人民的感情造成一個犯罪。我了解,委員也幫了很多忙,縣政府跟縣議會也都幫了很多忙,我們都非常的感謝,我們很遺憾,我們很希望在人道府衛的部分,集中到人道的府衛的部分,朝向這裡我們好好的協商,然後來解決這件事情,我們有很大的誠意。\n336071\t364577\t盡快的把這件事情平復好不好?我們很努力我們很努力那我繼續我想請教這個院長是飛安很重要吧飛安飛行安全如果沒有的話我們寧可把機場關閉嘛對不對?是當然我們也不一定要飛喔不造成人命的話是不是?是85年4月5號我們馬祖發生空難國華航空飛機失事6個人死亡\n365922\t391410\t其中包含我們前任楊崔生現場也在飛機上他是逃命出去了甚至還救了一些人我們非常感佩民國86年8月10日國華航空又失事了16個人全數罹難其中包含了我弟弟我弟媳婦我子女我親家母5個人\n393832\t423048\t十六個人我們家佔了五分之一所以這種悲痛不是那種沒坐過飛機的人有些人沒坐過飛機有些人不敢坐飛機有些人懼高症不是那種那種那一些人那個痛苦能夠形容的我為什麼要去選立法委員我就是為了這件事情我不停的呼籲不停的呼籲我們的機場要改善這很重要\n423851\t452483\t好,110年5月10號我們有一架飛機因為南竿機場側風他的右輪打到頭端東山寶到頭端以後那麼降落機場爆胎所幸人員安全所以這一些都是全國最不安全的機場比較不安全的機場好了啦應該是馬祖倫南竿機場跟北竿機場\n454591\t480361\t院長您承認這件事嗎?我想南岸跟北岸機場確實是有可以均勁的地方。所以下去的時候看到側風會怕啊?是不是能夠安全降落?會不會歪掉?這是我們心中的痛嘛,是不是?所以牧市機場到目前為止因為氣候的因素、天候的因素南岸北岸的航班經常停飛\n482054\t502089\t十年來一共有三千六百二十五架次無法起降,天后的一柱,側風,風太大,霧太大,一陣霧飄來啊。利龍航空有三千五百九十三架次,華信航空有三十二架次,無法降落。所以北竿機場的擴建,我從85年\n506054\t535200\t當第三屆國大代表的時候就已經提出北竿機場改善因為那時候就是我弟弟啊那時候飛機失事嘛90年到98年時任縣長正好我當縣長我可以強力的推動北竿機場的改善方案103年雪生要求行政院要給馬祖一個安全的機場山西的機場到104年民航局\n536021\t555913\t提出來了馬祖北竿山西機場中建匯合方案。111年行政院合併原則支持這件事情。那麼112年7月通過環評的審查環境影響評估通過了。到現在113年2月15號最近國發會開了一個會找了我們縣長、鄉長開了一個會\n565202\t587705\t表示審查已經差不多了,要送到行政院去核定。去年的11月10月6號本席質詢院長的時候,院長怎麼回答我?我放一片影片給您看好不好?我訂了一家無口人命在北竿機場失事。\n589246\t614866\t所以北竿機場我請問你交通部、中華民國的政府,全台灣哪一座機場是這樣的機場?政府沒有責任把它做成安全的機場嗎?所以北竿機場第一優先要把它做成安全的機場,所以我們已經合了200億,將近200億我們已經合了,儘快把它完成,這個是我們最優先希望馬祖最先做的。然後北竿機場之外呢?\n618772\t641523\t院長您在10月6日回答我,回答核定那現在委員的投影片也講說現在國會這已經審議完我相信院長你還沒看過還沒有我請那個報告委員因為2月15號我們大概原則上有召開會議大概原則通過了\n642603\t645185\t請教防部再跟民航局討論一下\n662319\t689375\t他實施的工序也好或方法也好或夜間施工等等的一些情況,看能不能把那個時間再縮短。那我們大概就希望這個想好以後大概二月底就會報還給我們,我們就盡快的付給行政院,行政院就可以核定。郭副主委,你講得很好。您在開的會裡面,北開機站改建時程要多遠,我告訴你齁,第一期\n690188\t705900\t要11年9個月第一期第一期幹什麼呢用力取得這個設計要4年6個月那時候我這一任又卸任了我又看不到了\n707674\t733852\t第二個工期要7年3個月也就是說移動要11年9個月這是第一期的部分還有第二期第二期什麼新航站的工程需要蓋多久10年3個月一共加起來要多久要24年的2個月\n735219\t750683\t二十四年兩個月,院長先生你幾歲?我九十幾歲我還看得到嗎?這太過分了吧你們那麼多的各位首長在這邊蓋個馬祖機場要24年你們聽得下去嗎?\n757279\t771694\t所以委員剛才我們才公主委才說我們希望這個交通部這邊再來檢討一下這個工期建設的期間是不是能夠跟廠商一起來考慮怎麼樣來說短這個是有必要的\n774276\t800782\t報告委員因為第一期的部分那個部分只要機場的延長跟改善那個做好以後安全就沒有問題那第二期您剛才提到那個新的航站那個部分要配合你蓋50年100年關我什麼事啊沒有沒有就是第一期的部分那個工期7年多蓋完以後這個新的這個跑道就可以開始營運只是我們希望說那個7年3個月可不可以再縮短那你全世界機場有沒有蓋過20幾年了嘛哪一個機場是這樣蓋的\n802462\t806668\t現在這個有一個環環相扣的關係第一個南岸機場的遷移要到豐山第一個我要炸山\n819520\t819620\t﹚陳雪生\n835043\t835864\t你跟我講就好了啦。\n850483\t855029\t我跟委員報告我覺得用力取得還有設計的這個階段如果縣政府跟我們民進黨來溝通我想可以把4年6個月縮短\n866101\t893399\t那供期的部分就是說我們想辦法來縮短就是說因為現在剛才看到在北竿的飛機事實上不多所以他應該施工的空隙會比較多這部分我已經跟民航局討論過也就是說第一個11年9個月怎麼縮短我們現在已經有一些在討論討論了那第二個因為新航下船還有細射吧對對對就是用地取得跟細射這個時間跟縣政府討論如果可以縮短縮短\n897302\t903824\t合併的話就是他們剛才講二月底就做出來。那我三月初就來合併。\n908018\t932267\t回覆給我們以後我們就會回覆行政院對我們3月份就會來核定了但是問題就是說在這有錄音的喔你要注意喔是是是剛才就講過因為他們還在等這個這個施工民航局把相關的這個時程再做一個檢討我們的目的都是一樣就是希望把這個期程可以縮短我去討論剛才六年\n933307\t948011\t對啦,我也覺得太久了不過這個工程我們也要了解說這工程確實有它的困難度那所以我們盡可能的要專家來審查看看這樣的工期這天海啊,這20米啊,20米的水深\n950752\t971802\t你填海出去填350公尺嘛我跟委員報告的確沒樣子在顧這個時間第一個在離島一般的營造廠商不願意過去他一定要談到這個問題所以我想說我們來檢討今天先不要浪費這個時間好不好月長你答覆我兩個禮拜之內核定\n973283\t1002289\t三月份啊,對啊三月份,三月一號、三月三十號有30天我們收到這個你十月六號能跟我講合併的對啦,這樣就是國發會這個資料送上到行政院來我們會盡快合併這一種事情已經辦了七八年了,八九年了會啦,我們會盡快你要慢慢拖,不是盡快,兩個禮拜好不好我們盡快努力嘛可以完成嘛\n1003427\t1031016\t公主委,你那邊的手續都已經差不多啦,就報行政院秘書長嘛秘書長送他一個院長看一下就差不多了嘛對啦,我們就等待相關的意見,我們會來催促好不好好,這個機長沒問題啦齁第二個我請教一下這個南北竿大橋南北竿大橋從106年齁一直扯到現在,106年,多少年了?\n1033138\t1060203\t這個案子綜合規劃已經完成了,跟機場一樣,一直在那邊拖。你們國發會的講法是什麼?是說看南竿機場運量怎麼樣?公主委我告訴你,南竿機場是一個非常危險的機場。它的進場那個側風那個地方,它已經改善到極致了。不安全的機場你不用關閉嗎?不安全的機場你讓它繼續飛嗎?\n1061823\t1089639\t要等到出事了,縣長下臺,院長下臺,是不是這樣?向國人道歉,要搞到這樣的地步嗎?我不希望有這樣的事情發生。所以,你要坐南安高安機場的話,你這個大橋一定要坐嘛。你大橋不坐,你北安機場,你現在坐十幾年,我們那邊老闆已經快炸鍋了,蓋個機場要十幾年,我不蓋了,你可去吊飛機也沒關係。\n1090936\t1118730\t我要忍痛十幾年,我生意都不要做了嗎?不是震動企業,這長痛了欸。要十幾年欸。那你北竿機場做完以後咧?你北竿機場在做,北竿機場老闆一定要到南竿坐飛機。那北竿機場做完以後咧?那南竿機場要到北竿去坐飛機。那南竿機場怎麼辦?又來了,問題又來了。所以這個橋的問題一定要解決嘛。沒關係,你機場確定以後。\n1120325\t1139855\t我希望喬的問題我們來討論喬的事情喬一定要做我想你行政部門不做我們立法院來推我會逼著你們做你喬一定要做所以喬的細則也很簡單誰說要做什麼600億公主委誰講的600億\n1146367\t1164233\t發言委員,因為上一次院長指示說,尋找第三方比較客觀的來重新評估,包括技術上還有經費上。那我們現在已經也招標了,就是國外的英國的一個工程顧問公司,全世界大概排名第11名。這話是你們國發會傳出來要600億。蔡總統也是誤聽你們的600億。\n1169955\t1195636\t施西講288億啊,施西欸人家施西欸,一定比你專業吧。所以因為他那個,因為升到60公尺那個是我們沒有做過的,所以這個還要第三方的技術上的評估,所以我們已經有這樣的評估了。施西這個單位就不要了嘛,要這個單位幹什麼?還有技術系施西也說可行啊,他說可行啊。\n1196172\t1223986\t沒有說不可行啊,是你們在那邊講不可行啊,我很奇怪咧。你們找世紀開了會了嗎?也沒有啊。這個事情我們到交通委員會再討論。還有,高雄航線,高雄航線我在選舉期間啊,民進黨黨部主委一直講說,高雄航線他去連署啊,連署7000個人,連署8萬人也沒用啊。\n1224585\t1233418\t航空公司飛不飛很重要啊。例如航空不飛,國華、國慶、華航你叫他飛嘛,不打。\n1234625\t1263696\t你能不能找民航局我上次已經講過了民航局召集嘛用包機的方式用其他的方式去處理嘛你可以處理嗎現在就是用這個方向就是說馬祖高雄的航線在94年斷掉那當時就是運量不足運量怎麼不足呢我負責嘛當時當時的那個當時那現在可以啦然後現在民航局事實上除了立龍以外也找了像華系我們除了老百姓除了觀光客阿兵哥的占比在南部是\n1266641\t1281101\t欸50%欸還不止欸阿兵哥也是回家的路啊講了老半天你們也聽不下去我叫了老半天我們跟航空公司做過討論啦齁他們是完全沒有意願是民進黨民進黨黨部方向搞錯了嘛現在先用包機先用包機\n1282406\t1310911\t你們能不能找一下嗎?好不好?包機的方式我想跟縣政府這邊,聯鄉縣政府來討論一下怎麼樣做一些這個獎勵的措施來做,這個可能比較可行。等包機有印量以後在這邊恢復定期航線。我要問一下我們院長,院長對部立院的手法,醫療系統。在選舉期間,我們的聯鄉縣黨部主委,你問先生,我很謝謝他。\n1312162\t1339378\t他都為了王必勝次長,同意馬祖改為部立院,您看法如何?部立院只是換個招牌,現立兩個字改為部立就好了嗎?不是這樣齁?人員組織編制醫藥病房,是不是?什麼神經外科、神經內科,這些都要準備了勒?\n1340034\t1369122\t人員要增加欸部長你回答我好了那有關於部立醫院就是說有沒有答應?市長有沒有答應?目前的話是沒有啦沒有?沒有就騙人囉沒有,那個因為縣政府那邊是不是很贊成主要是地方我們縣政府的兩個院長也是兩個縣長啊是院長的學生啊,劉振英啊對,振英\n1369704\t1387138\t他們覺得我們地方很小嘛,是不是?金門跟澎湖實施的不是很順暢。馬魯這個地方行之有年啊,非常的好。不錯啊。李渭先生跑去講說民進黨王必勝次長答應改為部立院,有沒有這回事?\n1388458\t1401546\t並沒有直接說所謂的答應改為不立,而是說這一個部分的話必須還要再研議。雖然我們在1月的時候,那部裡面有派人過去縣政府跟縣長談過這個事情。沒有談過,縣長有談過會跟我講。\n1407511\t1432832\t我們會長如果有談過,一定會告訴我。一月十七那有去拜訪那個...黃碧珍部長嗎?應該是我...我要問的是王市長,王市長有沒有答應?這沒有...沒關係,我一個問完就問。今天顧問來我,我一定查個血絡指數。好,請你回去。我要問我們國防部部長,邱部長。還有一點時間。會長是\n1437284\t1462236\t他的靶場設在我們的行政中心啊長照已經蓋好了醫院蓋好了國中蓋好了國小蓋好了在中間打靶槍打來打去院長你聽得進去嗎所以這個事情我有問過邱部長邱部長的問題在哪裡你知道嗎待拆待建我說清朝的靶場現在是民國啦現代化啦\n1466803\t1492410\t那個是那個地推土地推一推有沒有弄個靶子啊就從那啪打過去是這樣打法的不是像現在現在那個警察你看在室內都可以打打了以後那個靶子自動彈回來看看有沒有打中靶心有沒有打中部長是不是這樣你國防部沒錢你也講嘛行政院主席長也在吧你另外能不能撥點錢啊\n1494418\t1521058\t國防部預算很緊湊我知道啊他們裡面那個馬路啊我當縣長還是我幫他們鋪的我鋪了很多條啦國防部哪有錢鋪馬路咧沒有錢鋪嘛所以他這個靶場說代遷代鑒我們縣政府窮的你也知道一個是澎湖一個是馬祖金門有個酒廠在那個地方你說靶場搬就搬有什麼困難啊\n1522025\t1530980\t他那個酒多賣兩瓶就有了馬祖沒有啊你知道只有扣我們公務人員薪水拿去做保藏啊所以邱部長說沒辦法後來答應我說兩年\n1535081\t1558727\t兩年到現在你們沒動靜欸,我們憲法幫你都預定好了沒有?報告委員我跟您說明好不好,我知道委員幾個會期當中提到拔草的問題,事實上我們也很積極,我們也編組到三個點去看,我想現在政府也很清楚,有封山、有板山、還有個大臥。這幾個地方經過評估以後啊,我們選那個點裡面有些困難,我們好像3月5號還要再開會嘛。\n1559727\t1581892\t我跟我們同仁交代,我們針對問題不要讓人家覺得我們在拖,沒有在拖,一直在積極運作。但剛才委員已經點出幾個問題來,我覺得這個在後面都可以談,都可以談。那幾個點選擇了以後,有些問題可能要麻煩縣政府要先處理完,才能夠走下一步。都處理了,甚至像你們現在,你們要代菜代鍵。\n1582677\t1600885\t就四個字而已。帶線也是問題之一啦。我們要處理好啊。軍方也知道在什麼地方啦。軍方也不敢講話。大隊怎麼敢講話呢?一定不會不敢講話。不是不敢講話,因為有一些問題。那你們現在在帶拆、再見四個字。帶拆、再見這個問題又困在哪裡啦?邱部長。\n1601912\t1623182\t我們兩個感情不錯吧?國防部跟憲政府感情也不錯嗎?也很好,對。距離一家嘛。我也注意到啦,你看你到馬祖區,我也沒送你什麼酒,你還送我水果。這種善意我們的感情在心嘛,是不是?我們對部隊也是很照顧的。的確我知道,這個委員對部隊真的很照顧。在那邊的阿明哥確實很辛苦。所以拜託部長,\n1630714\t1640776\t你這個事情注意一下,不要為了這個事情影響到軍民的感情嘛,是不是?長照在那裡,學校在那裡,你每天那個子彈砰砰砰砰砰砰砰砰砰砰砰砰砰砰砰砰砰砰砰砰砰砰砰砰砰砰砰砰砰砰砰砰砰砰砰砰砰砰砰砰砰砰砰砰砰砰砰砰砰砰砰砰砰砰砰砰砰砰砰砰砰砰砰砰砰砰砰砰砰砰砰砰砰砰砰砰砰砰砰砰砰砰砰砰砰砰砰砰砰砰�\n1659502\t1688199\t沒有事關我縣政府什麼事啊因為你們那個富時供應中心跟臺灣的肉商有簽約嘛你的肉一定要跟他買嘛我們馬祖地區的肉你不能買啊那問題又出來了你們有跟那個航商啊開船的啊公司有簽約嘛他船正好壞掉了所以肉也沒辦法送啊船也沒辦法開所以沒肉吃一扯扯到縣政府\n1689044\t1695465\t說你們那個馬祖立法委員混蛋阿兵哥沒飯吃沒肉吃跟我們什麼關係啊\n1700399\t1723829\t我們也在強化,怎麼樣強化?一個他原本的儲存量我們把他給增加天數。搞得陸軍司令還要去道歉。第二個就是我們現在這個復共站雖然沒有,但他的採購在外離島採購一切有,他部隊長自己做主就可以,我們沒有很大的限制。現在兵力也少了嘛,你跟民間去買就好了嘛。\n1724789\t1746858\t讓他們吃一點生鮮的活豬肉好不好?不要吃青草那種冰得硬梆梆的冰得急,都冰了好幾年那肉欸!那個魚都已經變成化石了化石用油炸一炸放點辣椒,這些阿兵哥也是我們的子弟嘛好不好?有機會我請你吃一下青草的化石的帶魚給你吃好不好?\n1747894\t1774503\t你吃吃看你就知道了。我吃過,我在馬祖服務過,我知道。部長你注意一下好不好?是。好,還最近一次,部長跟主席黨請回,我們教育部。教育部勒,最近發生什麼事啊?崔世功有沒有啦?五個變成兩個,兩個變成勒?兩個人力沒辦法炒菜啊。好啦,我們馬祖四鄉五島離島啊。\n1776616\t1806234\t小孩子沒飯吃了沒飯吃以後外面叫賣的什麼攤販賣香腸打香腸一堆就在校門口這一下生意搞好了學生家長就反彈不過那天在現場部長也跟我抱歉了部長馬上把這問題解決了63萬給了200多萬部長以後這個事情怎麼發現的又是民進黨的連江縣黨部又在罵我了說你這個立委怎麼搞的怎麼搞的\n1806761\t1830267\t現在政府跟我什麼關係啊?這是你民進黨的單位啊?你的教育部啊?你的國立高中啊?關我們什麼事啊?部長你有注意一下好不好?學校的事情。這個我要謝謝委員,因為委員在217號當地了解這個情形,也召開那個很快的會議。還有船舶,船舶1.8公尺改為2公尺好不好?你注意一下。\n1844781\t1848165\t謝謝陳委員雪生的質詢。接下來我們請張委員齊凱質詢。\n","txt":"謝謝主席陳院長還有各部會社長大家早安是不是請主席請陳院長備詢阿凡請陳院長備詢陳委員早恭喜委員當選連任院長早安最近這幾天發生驚嚇隨遇大陸漁民不幸歷難的事情\n陸海警闖金門禁限制水域,我們要加強取締,必要時與驅離。有沒有講這句話?我們確實在金門是有禁限水域,那在這個當有\n因為事情一發生我非常關切金門的事情延伸到馬祖所以我們馬祖海巡的部分我也跟海巡隊長講我們保持警戒追逐的事情先暫時避免因為今下的事情還沒處理好\n所以我們在兩馬鬧元宵的時候我們的縣長、議長也到彼岸去跟大陸領導我們在那邊氣氛都還不錯也就是金門馬祖我們關係還蠻好的雖然他們有三條海監船在我們離我們五海里的地方也在宣誓但是一切還蠻平和的那麼最近\n我們的海巡署周署長也做了一些動作也比較低調一點我是建議就是說在法律跟人道的部分能夠把它切割畢竟人死為大大陸的珊瑚船也就是我們簡稱的白船白船是沒有牌照的他來這邊有兩個目的一個是我們金門馬祖是島礁比較多啊漁產比較多來釣魚的\n一種是來割網的來竊盜的所以這個在海巡跟海警來講的話他們雙方在檯面下都有默契是共同打擊犯罪跟取締的目標但是海巡發生這件事情是漁船的魚尾勾到了底下據我的了解有可能是他的人掉到海裡去死亡也有可能是\n我們海巡在執法過程中,我們的人掉在海裡面去死亡。這一種悲劇才會有的。像去年的4月在一次執勤的時候,也是落海四位,其中有三位就是我們的船員。那好在那個時候總數是三艘船,所以全部都救得起來。所以海巡同仁在執法的時候知道自己也是在搏命,所以跟委員報告,\n絕對不可能說我們的船比他小的情況下,我們的同仁會想要去撞這艘船。這個絕對不會是。我也不會幫海軍講話,也不會幫大陸講話。我們案情就是請檢察官來懷疑。不是我們樂意建造的。今天我們希望把法律的部分跟人造的部分分為兩部分來處理。\n我們一直都是希望朝向人道撫慰的方式,朝向這裡一起來談判。但是整個談判的環境,我方是如此,但是對方我們也希望是如此。目前在今夏海域有白船在追逐我們海巡的事情,所以我們海巡在這個時候我們需要讓人賴,我們戒備。\n我們一直都從事件發生以後,我也特別指示,一定是冷靜理智來進行我們常態性的巡撫。是事實上目前……不要繼續挑釁了。沒有,我們從來沒有挑釁。周組長最近做的事情很好啊。\n我指派他去上香我特別指派他要到金門去然後請他上香他也接見了家屬他都做了事我們很希望在這個氣氛之下能夠有進展但是事實上有很多提出來希望我們去做的事情事實上真的是很難那我們很希望很希望趕快回到人道福威這件事情我想\n我在這邊再次提醒,我們跟大陸不要為了一點點小事情,反兩岸人民的感情造成一個犯罪。我了解,委員也幫了很多忙,縣政府跟縣議會也都幫了很多忙,我們都非常的感謝,我們很遺憾,我們很希望在人道府衛的部分,集中到人道的府衛的部分,朝向這裡我們好好的協商,然後來解決這件事情,我們有很大的誠意。\n盡快的把這件事情平復好不好?我們很努力我們很努力那我繼續我想請教這個院長是飛安很重要吧飛安飛行安全如果沒有的話我們寧可把機場關閉嘛對不對?是當然我們也不一定要飛喔不造成人命的話是不是?是85年4月5號我們馬祖發生空難國華航空飛機失事6個人死亡\n其中包含我們前任楊崔生現場也在飛機上他是逃命出去了甚至還救了一些人我們非常感佩民國86年8月10日國華航空又失事了16個人全數罹難其中包含了我弟弟我弟媳婦我子女我親家母5個人\n十六個人我們家佔了五分之一所以這種悲痛不是那種沒坐過飛機的人有些人沒坐過飛機有些人不敢坐飛機有些人懼高症不是那種那種那一些人那個痛苦能夠形容的我為什麼要去選立法委員我就是為了這件事情我不停的呼籲不停的呼籲我們的機場要改善這很重要\n好,110年5月10號我們有一架飛機因為南竿機場側風他的右輪打到頭端東山寶到頭端以後那麼降落機場爆胎所幸人員安全所以這一些都是全國最不安全的機場比較不安全的機場好了啦應該是馬祖倫南竿機場跟北竿機場\n院長您承認這件事嗎?我想南岸跟北岸機場確實是有可以均勁的地方。所以下去的時候看到側風會怕啊?是不是能夠安全降落?會不會歪掉?這是我們心中的痛嘛,是不是?所以牧市機場到目前為止因為氣候的因素、天候的因素南岸北岸的航班經常停飛\n十年來一共有三千六百二十五架次無法起降,天后的一柱,側風,風太大,霧太大,一陣霧飄來啊。利龍航空有三千五百九十三架次,華信航空有三十二架次,無法降落。所以北竿機場的擴建,我從85年\n當第三屆國大代表的時候就已經提出北竿機場改善因為那時候就是我弟弟啊那時候飛機失事嘛90年到98年時任縣長正好我當縣長我可以強力的推動北竿機場的改善方案103年雪生要求行政院要給馬祖一個安全的機場山西的機場到104年民航局\n提出來了馬祖北竿山西機場中建匯合方案。111年行政院合併原則支持這件事情。那麼112年7月通過環評的審查環境影響評估通過了。到現在113年2月15號最近國發會開了一個會找了我們縣長、鄉長開了一個會\n表示審查已經差不多了,要送到行政院去核定。去年的11月10月6號本席質詢院長的時候,院長怎麼回答我?我放一片影片給您看好不好?我訂了一家無口人命在北竿機場失事。\n所以北竿機場我請問你交通部、中華民國的政府,全台灣哪一座機場是這樣的機場?政府沒有責任把它做成安全的機場嗎?所以北竿機場第一優先要把它做成安全的機場,所以我們已經合了200億,將近200億我們已經合了,儘快把它完成,這個是我們最優先希望馬祖最先做的。然後北竿機場之外呢?\n院長您在10月6日回答我,回答核定那現在委員的投影片也講說現在國會這已經審議完我相信院長你還沒看過還沒有我請那個報告委員因為2月15號我們大概原則上有召開會議大概原則通過了\n請教防部再跟民航局討論一下\n他實施的工序也好或方法也好或夜間施工等等的一些情況,看能不能把那個時間再縮短。那我們大概就希望這個想好以後大概二月底就會報還給我們,我們就盡快的付給行政院,行政院就可以核定。郭副主委,你講得很好。您在開的會裡面,北開機站改建時程要多遠,我告訴你齁,第一期\n要11年9個月第一期第一期幹什麼呢用力取得這個設計要4年6個月那時候我這一任又卸任了我又看不到了\n第二個工期要7年3個月也就是說移動要11年9個月這是第一期的部分還有第二期第二期什麼新航站的工程需要蓋多久10年3個月一共加起來要多久要24年的2個月\n二十四年兩個月,院長先生你幾歲?我九十幾歲我還看得到嗎?這太過分了吧你們那麼多的各位首長在這邊蓋個馬祖機場要24年你們聽得下去嗎?\n所以委員剛才我們才公主委才說我們希望這個交通部這邊再來檢討一下這個工期建設的期間是不是能夠跟廠商一起來考慮怎麼樣來說短這個是有必要的\n報告委員因為第一期的部分那個部分只要機場的延長跟改善那個做好以後安全就沒有問題那第二期您剛才提到那個新的航站那個部分要配合你蓋50年100年關我什麼事啊沒有沒有就是第一期的部分那個工期7年多蓋完以後這個新的這個跑道就可以開始營運只是我們希望說那個7年3個月可不可以再縮短那你全世界機場有沒有蓋過20幾年了嘛哪一個機場是這樣蓋的\n現在這個有一個環環相扣的關係第一個南岸機場的遷移要到豐山第一個我要炸山\n﹚陳雪生\n你跟我講就好了啦。\n我跟委員報告我覺得用力取得還有設計的這個階段如果縣政府跟我們民進黨來溝通我想可以把4年6個月縮短\n那供期的部分就是說我們想辦法來縮短就是說因為現在剛才看到在北竿的飛機事實上不多所以他應該施工的空隙會比較多這部分我已經跟民航局討論過也就是說第一個11年9個月怎麼縮短我們現在已經有一些在討論討論了那第二個因為新航下船還有細射吧對對對就是用地取得跟細射這個時間跟縣政府討論如果可以縮短縮短\n合併的話就是他們剛才講二月底就做出來。那我三月初就來合併。\n回覆給我們以後我們就會回覆行政院對我們3月份就會來核定了但是問題就是說在這有錄音的喔你要注意喔是是是剛才就講過因為他們還在等這個這個施工民航局把相關的這個時程再做一個檢討我們的目的都是一樣就是希望把這個期程可以縮短我去討論剛才六年\n對啦,我也覺得太久了不過這個工程我們也要了解說這工程確實有它的困難度那所以我們盡可能的要專家來審查看看這樣的工期這天海啊,這20米啊,20米的水深\n你填海出去填350公尺嘛我跟委員報告的確沒樣子在顧這個時間第一個在離島一般的營造廠商不願意過去他一定要談到這個問題所以我想說我們來檢討今天先不要浪費這個時間好不好月長你答覆我兩個禮拜之內核定\n三月份啊,對啊三月份,三月一號、三月三十號有30天我們收到這個你十月六號能跟我講合併的對啦,這樣就是國發會這個資料送上到行政院來我們會盡快合併這一種事情已經辦了七八年了,八九年了會啦,我們會盡快你要慢慢拖,不是盡快,兩個禮拜好不好我們盡快努力嘛可以完成嘛\n公主委,你那邊的手續都已經差不多啦,就報行政院秘書長嘛秘書長送他一個院長看一下就差不多了嘛對啦,我們就等待相關的意見,我們會來催促好不好好,這個機長沒問題啦齁第二個我請教一下這個南北竿大橋南北竿大橋從106年齁一直扯到現在,106年,多少年了?\n這個案子綜合規劃已經完成了,跟機場一樣,一直在那邊拖。你們國發會的講法是什麼?是說看南竿機場運量怎麼樣?公主委我告訴你,南竿機場是一個非常危險的機場。它的進場那個側風那個地方,它已經改善到極致了。不安全的機場你不用關閉嗎?不安全的機場你讓它繼續飛嗎?\n要等到出事了,縣長下臺,院長下臺,是不是這樣?向國人道歉,要搞到這樣的地步嗎?我不希望有這樣的事情發生。所以,你要坐南安高安機場的話,你這個大橋一定要坐嘛。你大橋不坐,你北安機場,你現在坐十幾年,我們那邊老闆已經快炸鍋了,蓋個機場要十幾年,我不蓋了,你可去吊飛機也沒關係。\n我要忍痛十幾年,我生意都不要做了嗎?不是震動企業,這長痛了欸。要十幾年欸。那你北竿機場做完以後咧?你北竿機場在做,北竿機場老闆一定要到南竿坐飛機。那北竿機場做完以後咧?那南竿機場要到北竿去坐飛機。那南竿機場怎麼辦?又來了,問題又來了。所以這個橋的問題一定要解決嘛。沒關係,你機場確定以後。\n我希望喬的問題我們來討論喬的事情喬一定要做我想你行政部門不做我們立法院來推我會逼著你們做你喬一定要做所以喬的細則也很簡單誰說要做什麼600億公主委誰講的600億\n發言委員,因為上一次院長指示說,尋找第三方比較客觀的來重新評估,包括技術上還有經費上。那我們現在已經也招標了,就是國外的英國的一個工程顧問公司,全世界大概排名第11名。這話是你們國發會傳出來要600億。蔡總統也是誤聽你們的600億。\n施西講288億啊,施西欸人家施西欸,一定比你專業吧。所以因為他那個,因為升到60公尺那個是我們沒有做過的,所以這個還要第三方的技術上的評估,所以我們已經有這樣的評估了。施西這個單位就不要了嘛,要這個單位幹什麼?還有技術系施西也說可行啊,他說可行啊。\n沒有說不可行啊,是你們在那邊講不可行啊,我很奇怪咧。你們找世紀開了會了嗎?也沒有啊。這個事情我們到交通委員會再討論。還有,高雄航線,高雄航線我在選舉期間啊,民進黨黨部主委一直講說,高雄航線他去連署啊,連署7000個人,連署8萬人也沒用啊。\n航空公司飛不飛很重要啊。例如航空不飛,國華、國慶、華航你叫他飛嘛,不打。\n你能不能找民航局我上次已經講過了民航局召集嘛用包機的方式用其他的方式去處理嘛你可以處理嗎現在就是用這個方向就是說馬祖高雄的航線在94年斷掉那當時就是運量不足運量怎麼不足呢我負責嘛當時當時的那個當時那現在可以啦然後現在民航局事實上除了立龍以外也找了像華系我們除了老百姓除了觀光客阿兵哥的占比在南部是\n欸50%欸還不止欸阿兵哥也是回家的路啊講了老半天你們也聽不下去我叫了老半天我們跟航空公司做過討論啦齁他們是完全沒有意願是民進黨民進黨黨部方向搞錯了嘛現在先用包機先用包機\n你們能不能找一下嗎?好不好?包機的方式我想跟縣政府這邊,聯鄉縣政府來討論一下怎麼樣做一些這個獎勵的措施來做,這個可能比較可行。等包機有印量以後在這邊恢復定期航線。我要問一下我們院長,院長對部立院的手法,醫療系統。在選舉期間,我們的聯鄉縣黨部主委,你問先生,我很謝謝他。\n他都為了王必勝次長,同意馬祖改為部立院,您看法如何?部立院只是換個招牌,現立兩個字改為部立就好了嗎?不是這樣齁?人員組織編制醫藥病房,是不是?什麼神經外科、神經內科,這些都要準備了勒?\n人員要增加欸部長你回答我好了那有關於部立醫院就是說有沒有答應?市長有沒有答應?目前的話是沒有啦沒有?沒有就騙人囉沒有,那個因為縣政府那邊是不是很贊成主要是地方我們縣政府的兩個院長也是兩個縣長啊是院長的學生啊,劉振英啊對,振英\n他們覺得我們地方很小嘛,是不是?金門跟澎湖實施的不是很順暢。馬魯這個地方行之有年啊,非常的好。不錯啊。李渭先生跑去講說民進黨王必勝次長答應改為部立院,有沒有這回事?\n並沒有直接說所謂的答應改為不立,而是說這一個部分的話必須還要再研議。雖然我們在1月的時候,那部裡面有派人過去縣政府跟縣長談過這個事情。沒有談過,縣長有談過會跟我講。\n我們會長如果有談過,一定會告訴我。一月十七那有去拜訪那個...黃碧珍部長嗎?應該是我...我要問的是王市長,王市長有沒有答應?這沒有...沒關係,我一個問完就問。今天顧問來我,我一定查個血絡指數。好,請你回去。我要問我們國防部部長,邱部長。還有一點時間。會長是\n他的靶場設在我們的行政中心啊長照已經蓋好了醫院蓋好了國中蓋好了國小蓋好了在中間打靶槍打來打去院長你聽得進去嗎所以這個事情我有問過邱部長邱部長的問題在哪裡你知道嗎待拆待建我說清朝的靶場現在是民國啦現代化啦\n那個是那個地推土地推一推有沒有弄個靶子啊就從那啪打過去是這樣打法的不是像現在現在那個警察你看在室內都可以打打了以後那個靶子自動彈回來看看有沒有打中靶心有沒有打中部長是不是這樣你國防部沒錢你也講嘛行政院主席長也在吧你另外能不能撥點錢啊\n國防部預算很緊湊我知道啊他們裡面那個馬路啊我當縣長還是我幫他們鋪的我鋪了很多條啦國防部哪有錢鋪馬路咧沒有錢鋪嘛所以他這個靶場說代遷代鑒我們縣政府窮的你也知道一個是澎湖一個是馬祖金門有個酒廠在那個地方你說靶場搬就搬有什麼困難啊\n他那個酒多賣兩瓶就有了馬祖沒有啊你知道只有扣我們公務人員薪水拿去做保藏啊所以邱部長說沒辦法後來答應我說兩年\n兩年到現在你們沒動靜欸,我們憲法幫你都預定好了沒有?報告委員我跟您說明好不好,我知道委員幾個會期當中提到拔草的問題,事實上我們也很積極,我們也編組到三個點去看,我想現在政府也很清楚,有封山、有板山、還有個大臥。這幾個地方經過評估以後啊,我們選那個點裡面有些困難,我們好像3月5號還要再開會嘛。\n我跟我們同仁交代,我們針對問題不要讓人家覺得我們在拖,沒有在拖,一直在積極運作。但剛才委員已經點出幾個問題來,我覺得這個在後面都可以談,都可以談。那幾個點選擇了以後,有些問題可能要麻煩縣政府要先處理完,才能夠走下一步。都處理了,甚至像你們現在,你們要代菜代鍵。\n就四個字而已。帶線也是問題之一啦。我們要處理好啊。軍方也知道在什麼地方啦。軍方也不敢講話。大隊怎麼敢講話呢?一定不會不敢講話。不是不敢講話,因為有一些問題。那你們現在在帶拆、再見四個字。帶拆、再見這個問題又困在哪裡啦?邱部長。\n我們兩個感情不錯吧?國防部跟憲政府感情也不錯嗎?也很好,對。距離一家嘛。我也注意到啦,你看你到馬祖區,我也沒送你什麼酒,你還送我水果。這種善意我們的感情在心嘛,是不是?我們對部隊也是很照顧的。的確我知道,這個委員對部隊真的很照顧。在那邊的阿明哥確實很辛苦。所以拜託部長,\n你這個事情注意一下,不要為了這個事情影響到軍民的感情嘛,是不是?長照在那裡,學校在那裡,你每天那個子彈砰砰砰砰砰砰砰砰砰砰砰砰砰砰砰砰砰砰砰砰砰砰砰砰砰砰砰砰砰砰砰砰砰砰砰砰砰砰砰砰砰砰砰砰砰砰砰砰砰砰砰砰砰砰砰砰砰砰砰砰砰砰砰砰砰砰砰砰砰砰砰砰砰砰砰砰砰砰砰砰砰砰砰砰砰砰砰砰砰砰�\n沒有事關我縣政府什麼事啊因為你們那個富時供應中心跟臺灣的肉商有簽約嘛你的肉一定要跟他買嘛我們馬祖地區的肉你不能買啊那問題又出來了你們有跟那個航商啊開船的啊公司有簽約嘛他船正好壞掉了所以肉也沒辦法送啊船也沒辦法開所以沒肉吃一扯扯到縣政府\n說你們那個馬祖立法委員混蛋阿兵哥沒飯吃沒肉吃跟我們什麼關係啊\n我們也在強化,怎麼樣強化?一個他原本的儲存量我們把他給增加天數。搞得陸軍司令還要去道歉。第二個就是我們現在這個復共站雖然沒有,但他的採購在外離島採購一切有,他部隊長自己做主就可以,我們沒有很大的限制。現在兵力也少了嘛,你跟民間去買就好了嘛。\n讓他們吃一點生鮮的活豬肉好不好?不要吃青草那種冰得硬梆梆的冰得急,都冰了好幾年那肉欸!那個魚都已經變成化石了化石用油炸一炸放點辣椒,這些阿兵哥也是我們的子弟嘛好不好?有機會我請你吃一下青草的化石的帶魚給你吃好不好?\n你吃吃看你就知道了。我吃過,我在馬祖服務過,我知道。部長你注意一下好不好?是。好,還最近一次,部長跟主席黨請回,我們教育部。教育部勒,最近發生什麼事啊?崔世功有沒有啦?五個變成兩個,兩個變成勒?兩個人力沒辦法炒菜啊。好啦,我們馬祖四鄉五島離島啊。\n小孩子沒飯吃了沒飯吃以後外面叫賣的什麼攤販賣香腸打香腸一堆就在校門口這一下生意搞好了學生家長就反彈不過那天在現場部長也跟我抱歉了部長馬上把這問題解決了63萬給了200多萬部長以後這個事情怎麼發現的又是民進黨的連江縣黨部又在罵我了說你這個立委怎麼搞的怎麼搞的\n現在政府跟我什麼關係啊?這是你民進黨的單位啊?你的教育部啊?你的國立高中啊?關我們什麼事啊?部長你有注意一下好不好?學校的事情。這個我要謝謝委員,因為委員在217號當地了解這個情形,也召開那個很快的會議。還有船舶,船舶1.8公尺改為2公尺好不好?你注意一下。\n謝謝陳委員雪生的質詢。接下來我們請張委員齊凱質詢。\n","vtt":"WEBVTT\n\n00:13.282 --> 00:27.647\n謝謝主席陳院長還有各部會社長大家早安是不是請主席請陳院長備詢阿凡請陳院長備詢陳委員早恭喜委員當選連任院長早安最近這幾天發生驚嚇隨遇大陸漁民不幸歷難的事情\n\n00:41.263 --> 00:53.887\n陸海警闖金門禁限制水域,我們要加強取締,必要時與驅離。有沒有講這句話?我們確實在金門是有禁限水域,那在這個當有\n\n01:16.999 --> 01:36.206\n因為事情一發生我非常關切金門的事情延伸到馬祖所以我們馬祖海巡的部分我也跟海巡隊長講我們保持警戒追逐的事情先暫時避免因為今下的事情還沒處理好\n\n01:37.472 --> 02:02.447\n所以我們在兩馬鬧元宵的時候我們的縣長、議長也到彼岸去跟大陸領導我們在那邊氣氛都還不錯也就是金門馬祖我們關係還蠻好的雖然他們有三條海監船在我們離我們五海里的地方也在宣誓但是一切還蠻平和的那麼最近\n\n02:03.961 --> 02:29.328\n我們的海巡署周署長也做了一些動作也比較低調一點我是建議就是說在法律跟人道的部分能夠把它切割畢竟人死為大大陸的珊瑚船也就是我們簡稱的白船白船是沒有牌照的他來這邊有兩個目的一個是我們金門馬祖是島礁比較多啊漁產比較多來釣魚的\n\n02:32.495 --> 03:00.059\n一種是來割網的來竊盜的所以這個在海巡跟海警來講的話他們雙方在檯面下都有默契是共同打擊犯罪跟取締的目標但是海巡發生這件事情是漁船的魚尾勾到了底下據我的了解有可能是他的人掉到海裡去死亡也有可能是\n\n03:00.492 --> 03:25.513\n我們海巡在執法過程中,我們的人掉在海裡面去死亡。這一種悲劇才會有的。像去年的4月在一次執勤的時候,也是落海四位,其中有三位就是我們的船員。那好在那個時候總數是三艘船,所以全部都救得起來。所以海巡同仁在執法的時候知道自己也是在搏命,所以跟委員報告,\n\n03:27.094 --> 03:50.780\n絕對不可能說我們的船比他小的情況下,我們的同仁會想要去撞這艘船。這個絕對不會是。我也不會幫海軍講話,也不會幫大陸講話。我們案情就是請檢察官來懷疑。不是我們樂意建造的。今天我們希望把法律的部分跟人造的部分分為兩部分來處理。\n\n03:51.860 --> 04:16.940\n我們一直都是希望朝向人道撫慰的方式,朝向這裡一起來談判。但是整個談判的環境,我方是如此,但是對方我們也希望是如此。目前在今夏海域有白船在追逐我們海巡的事情,所以我們海巡在這個時候我們需要讓人賴,我們戒備。\n\n04:21.454 --> 04:38.733\n我們一直都從事件發生以後,我也特別指示,一定是冷靜理智來進行我們常態性的巡撫。是事實上目前……不要繼續挑釁了。沒有,我們從來沒有挑釁。周組長最近做的事情很好啊。\n\n04:39.133 --> 05:05.351\n我指派他去上香我特別指派他要到金門去然後請他上香他也接見了家屬他都做了事我們很希望在這個氣氛之下能夠有進展但是事實上有很多提出來希望我們去做的事情事實上真的是很難那我們很希望很希望趕快回到人道福威這件事情我想\n\n05:06.852 --> 05:35.471\n我在這邊再次提醒,我們跟大陸不要為了一點點小事情,反兩岸人民的感情造成一個犯罪。我了解,委員也幫了很多忙,縣政府跟縣議會也都幫了很多忙,我們都非常的感謝,我們很遺憾,我們很希望在人道府衛的部分,集中到人道的府衛的部分,朝向這裡我們好好的協商,然後來解決這件事情,我們有很大的誠意。\n\n05:36.071 --> 06:04.577\n盡快的把這件事情平復好不好?我們很努力我們很努力那我繼續我想請教這個院長是飛安很重要吧飛安飛行安全如果沒有的話我們寧可把機場關閉嘛對不對?是當然我們也不一定要飛喔不造成人命的話是不是?是85年4月5號我們馬祖發生空難國華航空飛機失事6個人死亡\n\n06:05.922 --> 06:31.410\n其中包含我們前任楊崔生現場也在飛機上他是逃命出去了甚至還救了一些人我們非常感佩民國86年8月10日國華航空又失事了16個人全數罹難其中包含了我弟弟我弟媳婦我子女我親家母5個人\n\n06:33.832 --> 07:03.048\n十六個人我們家佔了五分之一所以這種悲痛不是那種沒坐過飛機的人有些人沒坐過飛機有些人不敢坐飛機有些人懼高症不是那種那種那一些人那個痛苦能夠形容的我為什麼要去選立法委員我就是為了這件事情我不停的呼籲不停的呼籲我們的機場要改善這很重要\n\n07:03.851 --> 07:32.483\n好,110年5月10號我們有一架飛機因為南竿機場側風他的右輪打到頭端東山寶到頭端以後那麼降落機場爆胎所幸人員安全所以這一些都是全國最不安全的機場比較不安全的機場好了啦應該是馬祖倫南竿機場跟北竿機場\n\n07:34.591 --> 08:00.361\n院長您承認這件事嗎?我想南岸跟北岸機場確實是有可以均勁的地方。所以下去的時候看到側風會怕啊?是不是能夠安全降落?會不會歪掉?這是我們心中的痛嘛,是不是?所以牧市機場到目前為止因為氣候的因素、天候的因素南岸北岸的航班經常停飛\n\n08:02.054 --> 08:22.089\n十年來一共有三千六百二十五架次無法起降,天后的一柱,側風,風太大,霧太大,一陣霧飄來啊。利龍航空有三千五百九十三架次,華信航空有三十二架次,無法降落。所以北竿機場的擴建,我從85年\n\n08:26.054 --> 08:55.200\n當第三屆國大代表的時候就已經提出北竿機場改善因為那時候就是我弟弟啊那時候飛機失事嘛90年到98年時任縣長正好我當縣長我可以強力的推動北竿機場的改善方案103年雪生要求行政院要給馬祖一個安全的機場山西的機場到104年民航局\n\n08:56.021 --> 09:15.913\n提出來了馬祖北竿山西機場中建匯合方案。111年行政院合併原則支持這件事情。那麼112年7月通過環評的審查環境影響評估通過了。到現在113年2月15號最近國發會開了一個會找了我們縣長、鄉長開了一個會\n\n09:25.202 --> 09:47.705\n表示審查已經差不多了,要送到行政院去核定。去年的11月10月6號本席質詢院長的時候,院長怎麼回答我?我放一片影片給您看好不好?我訂了一家無口人命在北竿機場失事。\n\n09:49.246 --> 10:14.866\n所以北竿機場我請問你交通部、中華民國的政府,全台灣哪一座機場是這樣的機場?政府沒有責任把它做成安全的機場嗎?所以北竿機場第一優先要把它做成安全的機場,所以我們已經合了200億,將近200億我們已經合了,儘快把它完成,這個是我們最優先希望馬祖最先做的。然後北竿機場之外呢?\n\n10:18.772 --> 10:41.523\n院長您在10月6日回答我,回答核定那現在委員的投影片也講說現在國會這已經審議完我相信院長你還沒看過還沒有我請那個報告委員因為2月15號我們大概原則上有召開會議大概原則通過了\n\n10:42.603 --> 10:45.185\n請教防部再跟民航局討論一下\n\n11:02.319 --> 11:29.375\n他實施的工序也好或方法也好或夜間施工等等的一些情況,看能不能把那個時間再縮短。那我們大概就希望這個想好以後大概二月底就會報還給我們,我們就盡快的付給行政院,行政院就可以核定。郭副主委,你講得很好。您在開的會裡面,北開機站改建時程要多遠,我告訴你齁,第一期\n\n11:30.188 --> 11:45.900\n要11年9個月第一期第一期幹什麼呢用力取得這個設計要4年6個月那時候我這一任又卸任了我又看不到了\n\n11:47.674 --> 12:13.852\n第二個工期要7年3個月也就是說移動要11年9個月這是第一期的部分還有第二期第二期什麼新航站的工程需要蓋多久10年3個月一共加起來要多久要24年的2個月\n\n12:15.219 --> 12:30.683\n二十四年兩個月,院長先生你幾歲?我九十幾歲我還看得到嗎?這太過分了吧你們那麼多的各位首長在這邊蓋個馬祖機場要24年你們聽得下去嗎?\n\n12:37.279 --> 12:51.694\n所以委員剛才我們才公主委才說我們希望這個交通部這邊再來檢討一下這個工期建設的期間是不是能夠跟廠商一起來考慮怎麼樣來說短這個是有必要的\n\n12:54.276 --> 13:20.782\n報告委員因為第一期的部分那個部分只要機場的延長跟改善那個做好以後安全就沒有問題那第二期您剛才提到那個新的航站那個部分要配合你蓋50年100年關我什麼事啊沒有沒有就是第一期的部分那個工期7年多蓋完以後這個新的這個跑道就可以開始營運只是我們希望說那個7年3個月可不可以再縮短那你全世界機場有沒有蓋過20幾年了嘛哪一個機場是這樣蓋的\n\n13:22.462 --> 13:26.668\n現在這個有一個環環相扣的關係第一個南岸機場的遷移要到豐山第一個我要炸山\n\n13:39.520 --> 13:39.620\n﹚陳雪生\n\n13:55.043 --> 13:55.864\n你跟我講就好了啦。\n\n14:10.483 --> 14:15.029\n我跟委員報告我覺得用力取得還有設計的這個階段如果縣政府跟我們民進黨來溝通我想可以把4年6個月縮短\n\n14:26.101 --> 14:53.399\n那供期的部分就是說我們想辦法來縮短就是說因為現在剛才看到在北竿的飛機事實上不多所以他應該施工的空隙會比較多這部分我已經跟民航局討論過也就是說第一個11年9個月怎麼縮短我們現在已經有一些在討論討論了那第二個因為新航下船還有細射吧對對對就是用地取得跟細射這個時間跟縣政府討論如果可以縮短縮短\n\n14:57.302 --> 15:03.824\n合併的話就是他們剛才講二月底就做出來。那我三月初就來合併。\n\n15:08.018 --> 15:32.267\n回覆給我們以後我們就會回覆行政院對我們3月份就會來核定了但是問題就是說在這有錄音的喔你要注意喔是是是剛才就講過因為他們還在等這個這個施工民航局把相關的這個時程再做一個檢討我們的目的都是一樣就是希望把這個期程可以縮短我去討論剛才六年\n\n15:33.307 --> 15:48.011\n對啦,我也覺得太久了不過這個工程我們也要了解說這工程確實有它的困難度那所以我們盡可能的要專家來審查看看這樣的工期這天海啊,這20米啊,20米的水深\n\n15:50.752 --> 16:11.802\n你填海出去填350公尺嘛我跟委員報告的確沒樣子在顧這個時間第一個在離島一般的營造廠商不願意過去他一定要談到這個問題所以我想說我們來檢討今天先不要浪費這個時間好不好月長你答覆我兩個禮拜之內核定\n\n16:13.283 --> 16:42.289\n三月份啊,對啊三月份,三月一號、三月三十號有30天我們收到這個你十月六號能跟我講合併的對啦,這樣就是國發會這個資料送上到行政院來我們會盡快合併這一種事情已經辦了七八年了,八九年了會啦,我們會盡快你要慢慢拖,不是盡快,兩個禮拜好不好我們盡快努力嘛可以完成嘛\n\n16:43.427 --> 17:11.016\n公主委,你那邊的手續都已經差不多啦,就報行政院秘書長嘛秘書長送他一個院長看一下就差不多了嘛對啦,我們就等待相關的意見,我們會來催促好不好好,這個機長沒問題啦齁第二個我請教一下這個南北竿大橋南北竿大橋從106年齁一直扯到現在,106年,多少年了?\n\n17:13.138 --> 17:40.203\n這個案子綜合規劃已經完成了,跟機場一樣,一直在那邊拖。你們國發會的講法是什麼?是說看南竿機場運量怎麼樣?公主委我告訴你,南竿機場是一個非常危險的機場。它的進場那個側風那個地方,它已經改善到極致了。不安全的機場你不用關閉嗎?不安全的機場你讓它繼續飛嗎?\n\n17:41.823 --> 18:09.639\n要等到出事了,縣長下臺,院長下臺,是不是這樣?向國人道歉,要搞到這樣的地步嗎?我不希望有這樣的事情發生。所以,你要坐南安高安機場的話,你這個大橋一定要坐嘛。你大橋不坐,你北安機場,你現在坐十幾年,我們那邊老闆已經快炸鍋了,蓋個機場要十幾年,我不蓋了,你可去吊飛機也沒關係。\n\n18:10.936 --> 18:38.730\n我要忍痛十幾年,我生意都不要做了嗎?不是震動企業,這長痛了欸。要十幾年欸。那你北竿機場做完以後咧?你北竿機場在做,北竿機場老闆一定要到南竿坐飛機。那北竿機場做完以後咧?那南竿機場要到北竿去坐飛機。那南竿機場怎麼辦?又來了,問題又來了。所以這個橋的問題一定要解決嘛。沒關係,你機場確定以後。\n\n18:40.325 --> 18:59.855\n我希望喬的問題我們來討論喬的事情喬一定要做我想你行政部門不做我們立法院來推我會逼著你們做你喬一定要做所以喬的細則也很簡單誰說要做什麼600億公主委誰講的600億\n\n19:06.367 --> 19:24.233\n發言委員,因為上一次院長指示說,尋找第三方比較客觀的來重新評估,包括技術上還有經費上。那我們現在已經也招標了,就是國外的英國的一個工程顧問公司,全世界大概排名第11名。這話是你們國發會傳出來要600億。蔡總統也是誤聽你們的600億。\n\n19:29.955 --> 19:55.636\n施西講288億啊,施西欸人家施西欸,一定比你專業吧。所以因為他那個,因為升到60公尺那個是我們沒有做過的,所以這個還要第三方的技術上的評估,所以我們已經有這樣的評估了。施西這個單位就不要了嘛,要這個單位幹什麼?還有技術系施西也說可行啊,他說可行啊。\n\n19:56.172 --> 20:23.986\n沒有說不可行啊,是你們在那邊講不可行啊,我很奇怪咧。你們找世紀開了會了嗎?也沒有啊。這個事情我們到交通委員會再討論。還有,高雄航線,高雄航線我在選舉期間啊,民進黨黨部主委一直講說,高雄航線他去連署啊,連署7000個人,連署8萬人也沒用啊。\n\n20:24.585 --> 20:33.418\n航空公司飛不飛很重要啊。例如航空不飛,國華、國慶、華航你叫他飛嘛,不打。\n\n20:34.625 --> 21:03.696\n你能不能找民航局我上次已經講過了民航局召集嘛用包機的方式用其他的方式去處理嘛你可以處理嗎現在就是用這個方向就是說馬祖高雄的航線在94年斷掉那當時就是運量不足運量怎麼不足呢我負責嘛當時當時的那個當時那現在可以啦然後現在民航局事實上除了立龍以外也找了像華系我們除了老百姓除了觀光客阿兵哥的占比在南部是\n\n21:06.641 --> 21:21.101\n欸50%欸還不止欸阿兵哥也是回家的路啊講了老半天你們也聽不下去我叫了老半天我們跟航空公司做過討論啦齁他們是完全沒有意願是民進黨民進黨黨部方向搞錯了嘛現在先用包機先用包機\n\n21:22.406 --> 21:50.911\n你們能不能找一下嗎?好不好?包機的方式我想跟縣政府這邊,聯鄉縣政府來討論一下怎麼樣做一些這個獎勵的措施來做,這個可能比較可行。等包機有印量以後在這邊恢復定期航線。我要問一下我們院長,院長對部立院的手法,醫療系統。在選舉期間,我們的聯鄉縣黨部主委,你問先生,我很謝謝他。\n\n21:52.162 --> 22:19.378\n他都為了王必勝次長,同意馬祖改為部立院,您看法如何?部立院只是換個招牌,現立兩個字改為部立就好了嗎?不是這樣齁?人員組織編制醫藥病房,是不是?什麼神經外科、神經內科,這些都要準備了勒?\n\n22:20.034 --> 22:49.122\n人員要增加欸部長你回答我好了那有關於部立醫院就是說有沒有答應?市長有沒有答應?目前的話是沒有啦沒有?沒有就騙人囉沒有,那個因為縣政府那邊是不是很贊成主要是地方我們縣政府的兩個院長也是兩個縣長啊是院長的學生啊,劉振英啊對,振英\n\n22:49.704 --> 23:07.138\n他們覺得我們地方很小嘛,是不是?金門跟澎湖實施的不是很順暢。馬魯這個地方行之有年啊,非常的好。不錯啊。李渭先生跑去講說民進黨王必勝次長答應改為部立院,有沒有這回事?\n\n23:08.458 --> 23:21.546\n並沒有直接說所謂的答應改為不立,而是說這一個部分的話必須還要再研議。雖然我們在1月的時候,那部裡面有派人過去縣政府跟縣長談過這個事情。沒有談過,縣長有談過會跟我講。\n\n23:27.511 --> 23:52.832\n我們會長如果有談過,一定會告訴我。一月十七那有去拜訪那個...黃碧珍部長嗎?應該是我...我要問的是王市長,王市長有沒有答應?這沒有...沒關係,我一個問完就問。今天顧問來我,我一定查個血絡指數。好,請你回去。我要問我們國防部部長,邱部長。還有一點時間。會長是\n\n23:57.284 --> 24:22.236\n他的靶場設在我們的行政中心啊長照已經蓋好了醫院蓋好了國中蓋好了國小蓋好了在中間打靶槍打來打去院長你聽得進去嗎所以這個事情我有問過邱部長邱部長的問題在哪裡你知道嗎待拆待建我說清朝的靶場現在是民國啦現代化啦\n\n24:26.803 --> 24:52.410\n那個是那個地推土地推一推有沒有弄個靶子啊就從那啪打過去是這樣打法的不是像現在現在那個警察你看在室內都可以打打了以後那個靶子自動彈回來看看有沒有打中靶心有沒有打中部長是不是這樣你國防部沒錢你也講嘛行政院主席長也在吧你另外能不能撥點錢啊\n\n24:54.418 --> 25:21.058\n國防部預算很緊湊我知道啊他們裡面那個馬路啊我當縣長還是我幫他們鋪的我鋪了很多條啦國防部哪有錢鋪馬路咧沒有錢鋪嘛所以他這個靶場說代遷代鑒我們縣政府窮的你也知道一個是澎湖一個是馬祖金門有個酒廠在那個地方你說靶場搬就搬有什麼困難啊\n\n25:22.025 --> 25:30.980\n他那個酒多賣兩瓶就有了馬祖沒有啊你知道只有扣我們公務人員薪水拿去做保藏啊所以邱部長說沒辦法後來答應我說兩年\n\n25:35.081 --> 25:58.727\n兩年到現在你們沒動靜欸,我們憲法幫你都預定好了沒有?報告委員我跟您說明好不好,我知道委員幾個會期當中提到拔草的問題,事實上我們也很積極,我們也編組到三個點去看,我想現在政府也很清楚,有封山、有板山、還有個大臥。這幾個地方經過評估以後啊,我們選那個點裡面有些困難,我們好像3月5號還要再開會嘛。\n\n25:59.727 --> 26:21.892\n我跟我們同仁交代,我們針對問題不要讓人家覺得我們在拖,沒有在拖,一直在積極運作。但剛才委員已經點出幾個問題來,我覺得這個在後面都可以談,都可以談。那幾個點選擇了以後,有些問題可能要麻煩縣政府要先處理完,才能夠走下一步。都處理了,甚至像你們現在,你們要代菜代鍵。\n\n26:22.677 --> 26:40.885\n就四個字而已。帶線也是問題之一啦。我們要處理好啊。軍方也知道在什麼地方啦。軍方也不敢講話。大隊怎麼敢講話呢?一定不會不敢講話。不是不敢講話,因為有一些問題。那你們現在在帶拆、再見四個字。帶拆、再見這個問題又困在哪裡啦?邱部長。\n\n26:41.912 --> 27:03.182\n我們兩個感情不錯吧?國防部跟憲政府感情也不錯嗎?也很好,對。距離一家嘛。我也注意到啦,你看你到馬祖區,我也沒送你什麼酒,你還送我水果。這種善意我們的感情在心嘛,是不是?我們對部隊也是很照顧的。的確我知道,這個委員對部隊真的很照顧。在那邊的阿明哥確實很辛苦。所以拜託部長,\n\n27:10.714 --> 27:20.776\n你這個事情注意一下,不要為了這個事情影響到軍民的感情嘛,是不是?長照在那裡,學校在那裡,你每天那個子彈砰砰砰砰砰砰砰砰砰砰砰砰砰砰砰砰砰砰砰砰砰砰砰砰砰砰砰砰砰砰砰砰砰砰砰砰砰砰砰砰砰砰砰砰砰砰砰砰砰砰砰砰砰砰砰砰砰砰砰砰砰砰砰砰砰砰砰砰砰砰砰砰砰砰砰砰砰砰砰砰砰砰砰砰砰砰砰砰砰砰�\n\n27:39.502 --> 28:08.199\n沒有事關我縣政府什麼事啊因為你們那個富時供應中心跟臺灣的肉商有簽約嘛你的肉一定要跟他買嘛我們馬祖地區的肉你不能買啊那問題又出來了你們有跟那個航商啊開船的啊公司有簽約嘛他船正好壞掉了所以肉也沒辦法送啊船也沒辦法開所以沒肉吃一扯扯到縣政府\n\n28:09.044 --> 28:15.465\n說你們那個馬祖立法委員混蛋阿兵哥沒飯吃沒肉吃跟我們什麼關係啊\n\n28:20.399 --> 28:43.829\n我們也在強化,怎麼樣強化?一個他原本的儲存量我們把他給增加天數。搞得陸軍司令還要去道歉。第二個就是我們現在這個復共站雖然沒有,但他的採購在外離島採購一切有,他部隊長自己做主就可以,我們沒有很大的限制。現在兵力也少了嘛,你跟民間去買就好了嘛。\n\n28:44.789 --> 29:06.858\n讓他們吃一點生鮮的活豬肉好不好?不要吃青草那種冰得硬梆梆的冰得急,都冰了好幾年那肉欸!那個魚都已經變成化石了化石用油炸一炸放點辣椒,這些阿兵哥也是我們的子弟嘛好不好?有機會我請你吃一下青草的化石的帶魚給你吃好不好?\n\n29:07.894 --> 29:34.503\n你吃吃看你就知道了。我吃過,我在馬祖服務過,我知道。部長你注意一下好不好?是。好,還最近一次,部長跟主席黨請回,我們教育部。教育部勒,最近發生什麼事啊?崔世功有沒有啦?五個變成兩個,兩個變成勒?兩個人力沒辦法炒菜啊。好啦,我們馬祖四鄉五島離島啊。\n\n29:36.616 --> 30:06.234\n小孩子沒飯吃了沒飯吃以後外面叫賣的什麼攤販賣香腸打香腸一堆就在校門口這一下生意搞好了學生家長就反彈不過那天在現場部長也跟我抱歉了部長馬上把這問題解決了63萬給了200多萬部長以後這個事情怎麼發現的又是民進黨的連江縣黨部又在罵我了說你這個立委怎麼搞的怎麼搞的\n\n30:06.761 --> 30:30.267\n現在政府跟我什麼關係啊?這是你民進黨的單位啊?你的教育部啊?你的國立高中啊?關我們什麼事啊?部長你有注意一下好不好?學校的事情。這個我要謝謝委員,因為委員在217號當地了解這個情形,也召開那個很快的會議。還有船舶,船舶1.8公尺改為2公尺好不好?你注意一下。\n\n30:44.781 --> 30:48.165\n謝謝陳委員雪生的質詢。接下來我們請張委員齊凱質詢。\n\n","segments":[{"start":13.282,"end":27.647,"text":"謝謝主席陳院長還有各部會社長大家早安是不是請主席請陳院長備詢阿凡請陳院長備詢陳委員早恭喜委員當選連任院長早安最近這幾天發生驚嚇隨遇大陸漁民不幸歷難的事情"},{"start":41.263,"end":53.887,"text":"陸海警闖金門禁限制水域,我們要加強取締,必要時與驅離。有沒有講這句話?我們確實在金門是有禁限水域,那在這個當有"},{"start":76.999,"end":96.206,"text":"因為事情一發生我非常關切金門的事情延伸到馬祖所以我們馬祖海巡的部分我也跟海巡隊長講我們保持警戒追逐的事情先暫時避免因為今下的事情還沒處理好"},{"start":97.472,"end":122.447,"text":"所以我們在兩馬鬧元宵的時候我們的縣長、議長也到彼岸去跟大陸領導我們在那邊氣氛都還不錯也就是金門馬祖我們關係還蠻好的雖然他們有三條海監船在我們離我們五海里的地方也在宣誓但是一切還蠻平和的那麼最近"},{"start":123.961,"end":149.328,"text":"我們的海巡署周署長也做了一些動作也比較低調一點我是建議就是說在法律跟人道的部分能夠把它切割畢竟人死為大大陸的珊瑚船也就是我們簡稱的白船白船是沒有牌照的他來這邊有兩個目的一個是我們金門馬祖是島礁比較多啊漁產比較多來釣魚的"},{"start":152.495,"end":180.059,"text":"一種是來割網的來竊盜的所以這個在海巡跟海警來講的話他們雙方在檯面下都有默契是共同打擊犯罪跟取締的目標但是海巡發生這件事情是漁船的魚尾勾到了底下據我的了解有可能是他的人掉到海裡去死亡也有可能是"},{"start":180.492,"end":205.513,"text":"我們海巡在執法過程中,我們的人掉在海裡面去死亡。這一種悲劇才會有的。像去年的4月在一次執勤的時候,也是落海四位,其中有三位就是我們的船員。那好在那個時候總數是三艘船,所以全部都救得起來。所以海巡同仁在執法的時候知道自己也是在搏命,所以跟委員報告,"},{"start":207.094,"end":230.78,"text":"絕對不可能說我們的船比他小的情況下,我們的同仁會想要去撞這艘船。這個絕對不會是。我也不會幫海軍講話,也不會幫大陸講話。我們案情就是請檢察官來懷疑。不是我們樂意建造的。今天我們希望把法律的部分跟人造的部分分為兩部分來處理。"},{"start":231.86,"end":256.94,"text":"我們一直都是希望朝向人道撫慰的方式,朝向這裡一起來談判。但是整個談判的環境,我方是如此,但是對方我們也希望是如此。目前在今夏海域有白船在追逐我們海巡的事情,所以我們海巡在這個時候我們需要讓人賴,我們戒備。"},{"start":261.454,"end":278.733,"text":"我們一直都從事件發生以後,我也特別指示,一定是冷靜理智來進行我們常態性的巡撫。是事實上目前……不要繼續挑釁了。沒有,我們從來沒有挑釁。周組長最近做的事情很好啊。"},{"start":279.133,"end":305.351,"text":"我指派他去上香我特別指派他要到金門去然後請他上香他也接見了家屬他都做了事我們很希望在這個氣氛之下能夠有進展但是事實上有很多提出來希望我們去做的事情事實上真的是很難那我們很希望很希望趕快回到人道福威這件事情我想"},{"start":306.852,"end":335.471,"text":"我在這邊再次提醒,我們跟大陸不要為了一點點小事情,反兩岸人民的感情造成一個犯罪。我了解,委員也幫了很多忙,縣政府跟縣議會也都幫了很多忙,我們都非常的感謝,我們很遺憾,我們很希望在人道府衛的部分,集中到人道的府衛的部分,朝向這裡我們好好的協商,然後來解決這件事情,我們有很大的誠意。"},{"start":336.071,"end":364.577,"text":"盡快的把這件事情平復好不好?我們很努力我們很努力那我繼續我想請教這個院長是飛安很重要吧飛安飛行安全如果沒有的話我們寧可把機場關閉嘛對不對?是當然我們也不一定要飛喔不造成人命的話是不是?是85年4月5號我們馬祖發生空難國華航空飛機失事6個人死亡"},{"start":365.922,"end":391.41,"text":"其中包含我們前任楊崔生現場也在飛機上他是逃命出去了甚至還救了一些人我們非常感佩民國86年8月10日國華航空又失事了16個人全數罹難其中包含了我弟弟我弟媳婦我子女我親家母5個人"},{"start":393.832,"end":423.048,"text":"十六個人我們家佔了五分之一所以這種悲痛不是那種沒坐過飛機的人有些人沒坐過飛機有些人不敢坐飛機有些人懼高症不是那種那種那一些人那個痛苦能夠形容的我為什麼要去選立法委員我就是為了這件事情我不停的呼籲不停的呼籲我們的機場要改善這很重要"},{"start":423.851,"end":452.483,"text":"好,110年5月10號我們有一架飛機因為南竿機場側風他的右輪打到頭端東山寶到頭端以後那麼降落機場爆胎所幸人員安全所以這一些都是全國最不安全的機場比較不安全的機場好了啦應該是馬祖倫南竿機場跟北竿機場"},{"start":454.591,"end":480.361,"text":"院長您承認這件事嗎?我想南岸跟北岸機場確實是有可以均勁的地方。所以下去的時候看到側風會怕啊?是不是能夠安全降落?會不會歪掉?這是我們心中的痛嘛,是不是?所以牧市機場到目前為止因為氣候的因素、天候的因素南岸北岸的航班經常停飛"},{"start":482.054,"end":502.089,"text":"十年來一共有三千六百二十五架次無法起降,天后的一柱,側風,風太大,霧太大,一陣霧飄來啊。利龍航空有三千五百九十三架次,華信航空有三十二架次,無法降落。所以北竿機場的擴建,我從85年"},{"start":506.054,"end":535.2,"text":"當第三屆國大代表的時候就已經提出北竿機場改善因為那時候就是我弟弟啊那時候飛機失事嘛90年到98年時任縣長正好我當縣長我可以強力的推動北竿機場的改善方案103年雪生要求行政院要給馬祖一個安全的機場山西的機場到104年民航局"},{"start":536.021,"end":555.913,"text":"提出來了馬祖北竿山西機場中建匯合方案。111年行政院合併原則支持這件事情。那麼112年7月通過環評的審查環境影響評估通過了。到現在113年2月15號最近國發會開了一個會找了我們縣長、鄉長開了一個會"},{"start":565.202,"end":587.705,"text":"表示審查已經差不多了,要送到行政院去核定。去年的11月10月6號本席質詢院長的時候,院長怎麼回答我?我放一片影片給您看好不好?我訂了一家無口人命在北竿機場失事。"},{"start":589.246,"end":614.866,"text":"所以北竿機場我請問你交通部、中華民國的政府,全台灣哪一座機場是這樣的機場?政府沒有責任把它做成安全的機場嗎?所以北竿機場第一優先要把它做成安全的機場,所以我們已經合了200億,將近200億我們已經合了,儘快把它完成,這個是我們最優先希望馬祖最先做的。然後北竿機場之外呢?"},{"start":618.772,"end":641.523,"text":"院長您在10月6日回答我,回答核定那現在委員的投影片也講說現在國會這已經審議完我相信院長你還沒看過還沒有我請那個報告委員因為2月15號我們大概原則上有召開會議大概原則通過了"},{"start":642.603,"end":645.185,"text":"請教防部再跟民航局討論一下"},{"start":662.319,"end":689.375,"text":"他實施的工序也好或方法也好或夜間施工等等的一些情況,看能不能把那個時間再縮短。那我們大概就希望這個想好以後大概二月底就會報還給我們,我們就盡快的付給行政院,行政院就可以核定。郭副主委,你講得很好。您在開的會裡面,北開機站改建時程要多遠,我告訴你齁,第一期"},{"start":690.188,"end":705.9,"text":"要11年9個月第一期第一期幹什麼呢用力取得這個設計要4年6個月那時候我這一任又卸任了我又看不到了"},{"start":707.674,"end":733.852,"text":"第二個工期要7年3個月也就是說移動要11年9個月這是第一期的部分還有第二期第二期什麼新航站的工程需要蓋多久10年3個月一共加起來要多久要24年的2個月"},{"start":735.219,"end":750.683,"text":"二十四年兩個月,院長先生你幾歲?我九十幾歲我還看得到嗎?這太過分了吧你們那麼多的各位首長在這邊蓋個馬祖機場要24年你們聽得下去嗎?"},{"start":757.279,"end":771.694,"text":"所以委員剛才我們才公主委才說我們希望這個交通部這邊再來檢討一下這個工期建設的期間是不是能夠跟廠商一起來考慮怎麼樣來說短這個是有必要的"},{"start":774.276,"end":800.782,"text":"報告委員因為第一期的部分那個部分只要機場的延長跟改善那個做好以後安全就沒有問題那第二期您剛才提到那個新的航站那個部分要配合你蓋50年100年關我什麼事啊沒有沒有就是第一期的部分那個工期7年多蓋完以後這個新的這個跑道就可以開始營運只是我們希望說那個7年3個月可不可以再縮短那你全世界機場有沒有蓋過20幾年了嘛哪一個機場是這樣蓋的"},{"start":802.462,"end":806.668,"text":"現在這個有一個環環相扣的關係第一個南岸機場的遷移要到豐山第一個我要炸山"},{"start":819.52,"end":819.62,"text":"﹚陳雪生"},{"start":835.043,"end":835.864,"text":"你跟我講就好了啦。"},{"start":850.483,"end":855.029,"text":"我跟委員報告我覺得用力取得還有設計的這個階段如果縣政府跟我們民進黨來溝通我想可以把4年6個月縮短"},{"start":866.101,"end":893.399,"text":"那供期的部分就是說我們想辦法來縮短就是說因為現在剛才看到在北竿的飛機事實上不多所以他應該施工的空隙會比較多這部分我已經跟民航局討論過也就是說第一個11年9個月怎麼縮短我們現在已經有一些在討論討論了那第二個因為新航下船還有細射吧對對對就是用地取得跟細射這個時間跟縣政府討論如果可以縮短縮短"},{"start":897.302,"end":903.824,"text":"合併的話就是他們剛才講二月底就做出來。那我三月初就來合併。"},{"start":908.018,"end":932.267,"text":"回覆給我們以後我們就會回覆行政院對我們3月份就會來核定了但是問題就是說在這有錄音的喔你要注意喔是是是剛才就講過因為他們還在等這個這個施工民航局把相關的這個時程再做一個檢討我們的目的都是一樣就是希望把這個期程可以縮短我去討論剛才六年"},{"start":933.307,"end":948.011,"text":"對啦,我也覺得太久了不過這個工程我們也要了解說這工程確實有它的困難度那所以我們盡可能的要專家來審查看看這樣的工期這天海啊,這20米啊,20米的水深"},{"start":950.752,"end":971.802,"text":"你填海出去填350公尺嘛我跟委員報告的確沒樣子在顧這個時間第一個在離島一般的營造廠商不願意過去他一定要談到這個問題所以我想說我們來檢討今天先不要浪費這個時間好不好月長你答覆我兩個禮拜之內核定"},{"start":973.283,"end":1002.289,"text":"三月份啊,對啊三月份,三月一號、三月三十號有30天我們收到這個你十月六號能跟我講合併的對啦,這樣就是國發會這個資料送上到行政院來我們會盡快合併這一種事情已經辦了七八年了,八九年了會啦,我們會盡快你要慢慢拖,不是盡快,兩個禮拜好不好我們盡快努力嘛可以完成嘛"},{"start":1003.427,"end":1031.016,"text":"公主委,你那邊的手續都已經差不多啦,就報行政院秘書長嘛秘書長送他一個院長看一下就差不多了嘛對啦,我們就等待相關的意見,我們會來催促好不好好,這個機長沒問題啦齁第二個我請教一下這個南北竿大橋南北竿大橋從106年齁一直扯到現在,106年,多少年了?"},{"start":1033.138,"end":1060.203,"text":"這個案子綜合規劃已經完成了,跟機場一樣,一直在那邊拖。你們國發會的講法是什麼?是說看南竿機場運量怎麼樣?公主委我告訴你,南竿機場是一個非常危險的機場。它的進場那個側風那個地方,它已經改善到極致了。不安全的機場你不用關閉嗎?不安全的機場你讓它繼續飛嗎?"},{"start":1061.823,"end":1089.639,"text":"要等到出事了,縣長下臺,院長下臺,是不是這樣?向國人道歉,要搞到這樣的地步嗎?我不希望有這樣的事情發生。所以,你要坐南安高安機場的話,你這個大橋一定要坐嘛。你大橋不坐,你北安機場,你現在坐十幾年,我們那邊老闆已經快炸鍋了,蓋個機場要十幾年,我不蓋了,你可去吊飛機也沒關係。"},{"start":1090.936,"end":1118.73,"text":"我要忍痛十幾年,我生意都不要做了嗎?不是震動企業,這長痛了欸。要十幾年欸。那你北竿機場做完以後咧?你北竿機場在做,北竿機場老闆一定要到南竿坐飛機。那北竿機場做完以後咧?那南竿機場要到北竿去坐飛機。那南竿機場怎麼辦?又來了,問題又來了。所以這個橋的問題一定要解決嘛。沒關係,你機場確定以後。"},{"start":1120.325,"end":1139.855,"text":"我希望喬的問題我們來討論喬的事情喬一定要做我想你行政部門不做我們立法院來推我會逼著你們做你喬一定要做所以喬的細則也很簡單誰說要做什麼600億公主委誰講的600億"},{"start":1146.367,"end":1164.233,"text":"發言委員,因為上一次院長指示說,尋找第三方比較客觀的來重新評估,包括技術上還有經費上。那我們現在已經也招標了,就是國外的英國的一個工程顧問公司,全世界大概排名第11名。這話是你們國發會傳出來要600億。蔡總統也是誤聽你們的600億。"},{"start":1169.955,"end":1195.636,"text":"施西講288億啊,施西欸人家施西欸,一定比你專業吧。所以因為他那個,因為升到60公尺那個是我們沒有做過的,所以這個還要第三方的技術上的評估,所以我們已經有這樣的評估了。施西這個單位就不要了嘛,要這個單位幹什麼?還有技術系施西也說可行啊,他說可行啊。"},{"start":1196.172,"end":1223.986,"text":"沒有說不可行啊,是你們在那邊講不可行啊,我很奇怪咧。你們找世紀開了會了嗎?也沒有啊。這個事情我們到交通委員會再討論。還有,高雄航線,高雄航線我在選舉期間啊,民進黨黨部主委一直講說,高雄航線他去連署啊,連署7000個人,連署8萬人也沒用啊。"},{"start":1224.585,"end":1233.418,"text":"航空公司飛不飛很重要啊。例如航空不飛,國華、國慶、華航你叫他飛嘛,不打。"},{"start":1234.625,"end":1263.696,"text":"你能不能找民航局我上次已經講過了民航局召集嘛用包機的方式用其他的方式去處理嘛你可以處理嗎現在就是用這個方向就是說馬祖高雄的航線在94年斷掉那當時就是運量不足運量怎麼不足呢我負責嘛當時當時的那個當時那現在可以啦然後現在民航局事實上除了立龍以外也找了像華系我們除了老百姓除了觀光客阿兵哥的占比在南部是"},{"start":1266.641,"end":1281.101,"text":"欸50%欸還不止欸阿兵哥也是回家的路啊講了老半天你們也聽不下去我叫了老半天我們跟航空公司做過討論啦齁他們是完全沒有意願是民進黨民進黨黨部方向搞錯了嘛現在先用包機先用包機"},{"start":1282.406,"end":1310.911,"text":"你們能不能找一下嗎?好不好?包機的方式我想跟縣政府這邊,聯鄉縣政府來討論一下怎麼樣做一些這個獎勵的措施來做,這個可能比較可行。等包機有印量以後在這邊恢復定期航線。我要問一下我們院長,院長對部立院的手法,醫療系統。在選舉期間,我們的聯鄉縣黨部主委,你問先生,我很謝謝他。"},{"start":1312.162,"end":1339.378,"text":"他都為了王必勝次長,同意馬祖改為部立院,您看法如何?部立院只是換個招牌,現立兩個字改為部立就好了嗎?不是這樣齁?人員組織編制醫藥病房,是不是?什麼神經外科、神經內科,這些都要準備了勒?"},{"start":1340.034,"end":1369.122,"text":"人員要增加欸部長你回答我好了那有關於部立醫院就是說有沒有答應?市長有沒有答應?目前的話是沒有啦沒有?沒有就騙人囉沒有,那個因為縣政府那邊是不是很贊成主要是地方我們縣政府的兩個院長也是兩個縣長啊是院長的學生啊,劉振英啊對,振英"},{"start":1369.704,"end":1387.138,"text":"他們覺得我們地方很小嘛,是不是?金門跟澎湖實施的不是很順暢。馬魯這個地方行之有年啊,非常的好。不錯啊。李渭先生跑去講說民進黨王必勝次長答應改為部立院,有沒有這回事?"},{"start":1388.458,"end":1401.546,"text":"並沒有直接說所謂的答應改為不立,而是說這一個部分的話必須還要再研議。雖然我們在1月的時候,那部裡面有派人過去縣政府跟縣長談過這個事情。沒有談過,縣長有談過會跟我講。"},{"start":1407.511,"end":1432.832,"text":"我們會長如果有談過,一定會告訴我。一月十七那有去拜訪那個...黃碧珍部長嗎?應該是我...我要問的是王市長,王市長有沒有答應?這沒有...沒關係,我一個問完就問。今天顧問來我,我一定查個血絡指數。好,請你回去。我要問我們國防部部長,邱部長。還有一點時間。會長是"},{"start":1437.284,"end":1462.236,"text":"他的靶場設在我們的行政中心啊長照已經蓋好了醫院蓋好了國中蓋好了國小蓋好了在中間打靶槍打來打去院長你聽得進去嗎所以這個事情我有問過邱部長邱部長的問題在哪裡你知道嗎待拆待建我說清朝的靶場現在是民國啦現代化啦"},{"start":1466.803,"end":1492.41,"text":"那個是那個地推土地推一推有沒有弄個靶子啊就從那啪打過去是這樣打法的不是像現在現在那個警察你看在室內都可以打打了以後那個靶子自動彈回來看看有沒有打中靶心有沒有打中部長是不是這樣你國防部沒錢你也講嘛行政院主席長也在吧你另外能不能撥點錢啊"},{"start":1494.418,"end":1521.058,"text":"國防部預算很緊湊我知道啊他們裡面那個馬路啊我當縣長還是我幫他們鋪的我鋪了很多條啦國防部哪有錢鋪馬路咧沒有錢鋪嘛所以他這個靶場說代遷代鑒我們縣政府窮的你也知道一個是澎湖一個是馬祖金門有個酒廠在那個地方你說靶場搬就搬有什麼困難啊"},{"start":1522.025,"end":1530.98,"text":"他那個酒多賣兩瓶就有了馬祖沒有啊你知道只有扣我們公務人員薪水拿去做保藏啊所以邱部長說沒辦法後來答應我說兩年"},{"start":1535.081,"end":1558.727,"text":"兩年到現在你們沒動靜欸,我們憲法幫你都預定好了沒有?報告委員我跟您說明好不好,我知道委員幾個會期當中提到拔草的問題,事實上我們也很積極,我們也編組到三個點去看,我想現在政府也很清楚,有封山、有板山、還有個大臥。這幾個地方經過評估以後啊,我們選那個點裡面有些困難,我們好像3月5號還要再開會嘛。"},{"start":1559.727,"end":1581.892,"text":"我跟我們同仁交代,我們針對問題不要讓人家覺得我們在拖,沒有在拖,一直在積極運作。但剛才委員已經點出幾個問題來,我覺得這個在後面都可以談,都可以談。那幾個點選擇了以後,有些問題可能要麻煩縣政府要先處理完,才能夠走下一步。都處理了,甚至像你們現在,你們要代菜代鍵。"},{"start":1582.677,"end":1600.885,"text":"就四個字而已。帶線也是問題之一啦。我們要處理好啊。軍方也知道在什麼地方啦。軍方也不敢講話。大隊怎麼敢講話呢?一定不會不敢講話。不是不敢講話,因為有一些問題。那你們現在在帶拆、再見四個字。帶拆、再見這個問題又困在哪裡啦?邱部長。"},{"start":1601.912,"end":1623.182,"text":"我們兩個感情不錯吧?國防部跟憲政府感情也不錯嗎?也很好,對。距離一家嘛。我也注意到啦,你看你到馬祖區,我也沒送你什麼酒,你還送我水果。這種善意我們的感情在心嘛,是不是?我們對部隊也是很照顧的。的確我知道,這個委員對部隊真的很照顧。在那邊的阿明哥確實很辛苦。所以拜託部長,"},{"start":1630.714,"end":1640.776,"text":"你這個事情注意一下,不要為了這個事情影響到軍民的感情嘛,是不是?長照在那裡,學校在那裡,你每天那個子彈砰砰砰砰砰砰砰砰砰砰砰砰砰砰砰砰砰砰砰砰砰砰砰砰砰砰砰砰砰砰砰砰砰砰砰砰砰砰砰砰砰砰砰砰砰砰砰砰砰砰砰砰砰砰砰砰砰砰砰砰砰砰砰砰砰砰砰砰砰砰砰砰砰砰砰砰砰砰砰砰砰砰砰砰砰砰砰砰砰砰�"},{"start":1659.502,"end":1688.199,"text":"沒有事關我縣政府什麼事啊因為你們那個富時供應中心跟臺灣的肉商有簽約嘛你的肉一定要跟他買嘛我們馬祖地區的肉你不能買啊那問題又出來了你們有跟那個航商啊開船的啊公司有簽約嘛他船正好壞掉了所以肉也沒辦法送啊船也沒辦法開所以沒肉吃一扯扯到縣政府"},{"start":1689.044,"end":1695.465,"text":"說你們那個馬祖立法委員混蛋阿兵哥沒飯吃沒肉吃跟我們什麼關係啊"},{"start":1700.399,"end":1723.829,"text":"我們也在強化,怎麼樣強化?一個他原本的儲存量我們把他給增加天數。搞得陸軍司令還要去道歉。第二個就是我們現在這個復共站雖然沒有,但他的採購在外離島採購一切有,他部隊長自己做主就可以,我們沒有很大的限制。現在兵力也少了嘛,你跟民間去買就好了嘛。"},{"start":1724.789,"end":1746.858,"text":"讓他們吃一點生鮮的活豬肉好不好?不要吃青草那種冰得硬梆梆的冰得急,都冰了好幾年那肉欸!那個魚都已經變成化石了化石用油炸一炸放點辣椒,這些阿兵哥也是我們的子弟嘛好不好?有機會我請你吃一下青草的化石的帶魚給你吃好不好?"},{"start":1747.894,"end":1774.503,"text":"你吃吃看你就知道了。我吃過,我在馬祖服務過,我知道。部長你注意一下好不好?是。好,還最近一次,部長跟主席黨請回,我們教育部。教育部勒,最近發生什麼事啊?崔世功有沒有啦?五個變成兩個,兩個變成勒?兩個人力沒辦法炒菜啊。好啦,我們馬祖四鄉五島離島啊。"},{"start":1776.616,"end":1806.234,"text":"小孩子沒飯吃了沒飯吃以後外面叫賣的什麼攤販賣香腸打香腸一堆就在校門口這一下生意搞好了學生家長就反彈不過那天在現場部長也跟我抱歉了部長馬上把這問題解決了63萬給了200多萬部長以後這個事情怎麼發現的又是民進黨的連江縣黨部又在罵我了說你這個立委怎麼搞的怎麼搞的"},{"start":1806.761,"end":1830.267,"text":"現在政府跟我什麼關係啊?這是你民進黨的單位啊?你的教育部啊?你的國立高中啊?關我們什麼事啊?部長你有注意一下好不好?學校的事情。這個我要謝謝委員,因為委員在217號當地了解這個情形,也召開那個很快的會議。還有船舶,船舶1.8公尺改為2公尺好不好?你注意一下。"},{"start":1844.781,"end":1848.165,"text":"謝謝陳委員雪生的質詢。接下來我們請張委員齊凱質詢。"}]}}}}