{"id":149174,"url":"https://ivod.ly.gov.tw/Play/Clip/1M/149174","video_url":"https://ivod-lyvod.cdn.hinet.net/vod_1/_definst_/mp4:1MClips/61498c107f55f962625f56504c10e4dadba0a28dd420b397f8ba9b0039caa7a6207b5028fc8e4cef5ea18f28b6918d91.mp4/playlist.m3u8","委員名稱":"黃建賓","委員發言時間":"16:16:23 - 16:47:03","影片長度":"00:30:40","會議時間":"2024-03-01T09:00:00+08:00","會議名稱":"第11屆第1會期第3次會議（事由：一、對行政院院長提出施政方針及施政報告繼續質詢。\n 二、3月1日上午9時至10時為國是論壇時間。\n 三、3月5日下午1時50分至2時30分為處理臨時提案時間。）","meet":{"tmpMeeting":null,"title":"立法院第11屆第1會期第3次會議","id":"院會-11-1-3","type":"院會","term":11,"sessionPeriod":1,"sessionTimes":3},"date":"2024-03-01","duration":1840,"end_time":"2024-03-01T16:47:03+08:00","start_time":"2024-03-01T16:16:23+08:00","features":["ai-transcript","gazette"],"type":"Clip","gazette":{"lineno":389,"blocks":[["黃委員建賓：（16時16分）謝謝，謝謝院長，請一下我們的行政院陳院長。"],["主席：麻煩請陳院長備詢。"],["陳院長建仁：黃委員午安，恭喜你當選立委。"],["黃委員建賓：謝謝院長，院長平安。院長，之前聽說院長擔任副總統時，曾經到過臺東縣大武鄉主教錫神父的墓園追思過，是不是？"],["陳院長建仁：對，我很喜歡臺東，而且那裡有很多瑞士白冷會的神父，所以我很想念他們。"],["黃委員建賓：謝謝院長，其實我那時擔任那個鄉的鄉長。"],["陳院長建仁：是。"],["黃委員建賓：一直沒有機會跟院長見面，今天第一次見面就在立法院這邊。"],["陳院長建仁：非常榮幸。"],["黃委員建賓：謝謝天主保佑。院長，我今天其實是要替臺東人說一些心聲，來這邊跟院長報告。"],["陳院長建仁：好，我來聽聽。"],["黃委員建賓：其實臺東是一塊多元的土地，這塊土地上除了原住民的朋友、我們同胞以外，有很多是來自其他縣市到臺東這塊土地開墾的人，像是臺南、彰化、雲林，各縣市都有，我的外曾祖父也是早期到後山來開墾的。我想，有這麼多人自前山翻山越嶺到後山，都是希望能過更好的生活。"],["陳院長建仁：沒有錯。"],["黃委員建賓：讓我們的未來過得更好，希望能夠在這塊土地上找到新的開始。"],["陳院長建仁：是。"],["黃委員建賓：在這遷徙過程中，我們知道異常的艱辛，特別是臺東的交通問題，我相信也是因為這樣，造就了臺東人非常刻苦耐勞的精神，可能也就是在這樣好山好水環境，跟原住民同胞一起生活，我想鄉親們相對的樂觀，也非常的友善。"],["陳院長建仁：對，很堅強。"],["黃委員建賓：院長，友善的背後其實含著很多的無奈。我大概跟院長講一下，臺東曾經被喻為「被遺忘的城市」，我們臺東縣的土地面積是全國第三大，人口大概是21萬，我們是1%的人口住在十分之一的土地上，西部的朋友很羨慕我們，我們的生活空間很寬闊、很舒服，但其實也是相對的發展落後跟不方便。","過去臺東縣不管是人口增長率、自然增加率還有社會增加率，在108年調查結果是全國縣市排名22，也就是倒數第一名，經過很多年的努力，一直到了111年轉為正的2.02‰，排名大幅提升至全國第五。在這個過程裡面，其實臺東縣政府用了很多的力氣來發展屬於自己的產業，我想要問院長，在臺東的改變裡面，你覺得中央給予臺東什麼樣的協助？"],["陳院長建仁：好，這是一個很好的問題，因為臺東確實它是一個農業縣，在經濟發展上是比較慢，所以我們在前瞻基礎建設的過程當中，我們如果以每人口的前瞻基礎建設經費來看的話，臺東是排數一數二的一個縣，因為我們知道，確實它的資源比較少，所以我們在前瞻基礎建設的時候，給它比較多的資源，當然我們也會跟臺東縣政府一起努力，然後把花東基金好好來利用，使得臺東可以更加的發展。"],["黃委員建賓：謝謝院長。院長，我們饒縣長有說過，臺東縣政府前瞻計畫不到75億，8年的民進黨執政，金額75億，這麼大的土地，這麼少的人口，用這樣的分配其實不太公平，特別是我們臺東縣內族群多元，除了原住民、客家人、閩漢還有新住民，我們還要管理二個離島，綠島跟蘭嶼，這樣的經費其實是不夠的，也希望院長能夠多多幫助臺東。"],["龔主任委員明鑫：報告委員，所以為什麼中央的交通建設，包括雙軌還有電氣化，還有南迴的部分都放在臺東，然後剛才提到的花東基金，每年也有10億的預算，鄉鎮公所也可以提出2億，這個部分現在執行率都達到了百分之九十幾，所以不管是公所也好，或是縣政府提出來的，我們覺得可以的，我們就會儘量來幫忙。"],["黃委員建賓：當然，中央真的有努力，我們有看到，可是臺東縣政府如果有更大的資源，它就不用去走自己的路。"],["陳院長建仁：當然。"],["黃委員建賓：謝謝院長。","院長，不好意思，因為我之前的工作比較少質詢，所以待會我的質詢如果有比較不是這麼準確的用語，也請多多包涵。"],["陳院長建仁：好，沒關係。"],["黃委員建賓：剛才有提到農業，我們直接就來講農業好了，臺東大概有二個問題，一個是農業問題，農業也是臺東慢經濟的一環……"],["陳代理部長駿季：委員好。"],["黃委員建賓：好，謝謝部長，部長好。臺東因為天然環境的關係，我們的交通不便，我們人口少，商業行為少，所以我們其實就從基礎的農業來發展，這幾年來我們找到了一個可以代表臺東，一個很重要的經濟產物，就是釋迦，我們臺東縣政府的鳳梨釋迦在2019年的時候，產值已經達到10億美元，這個是我們從農業部裡面調到的資料，從民國110年12月到113年1月份，院長跟部長可以從這個表格看到，其實現在臺東的釋迦最主要的輸出地點還是在中國大陸，不管是它的產量或是它的產值的部分，都可以看得到。接下來，我就要請教一下院長，最近兩岸發生了一個金門撞船事件，鬧得沸沸揚揚，我想請教院長，臺東的釋迦已經有一個很好的商業模式，如果未來遇到類似這樣子會造成兩岸關係緊張的議題而中斷，使得我們沒有辦法銷往中國大陸，請問院長或部長，你要告訴我們的農民，我們要銷到什麼地方去？"],["陳院長建仁：這個部分我們農業部有一個對策。"],["陳代理部長駿季：我想跟委員說明，第一個部分，我們絕對不會輕易放棄任何一個市場，包括中國市場；第二個部分，過往我們對中國輸出比例比較高的，我們會用分散市場的一個策略，特別是往高端市場的部分，所以在過去幾年來，被中國所禁止的像鳳梨、鳳梨釋迦，鳳梨的部分，我們就很成功的輸往其他的國家；鳳梨釋迦的部分，當時這是屬於中國比較喜好的一個果品，我們在前兩年被中國禁止以後，我們也積極開發了很多加工的產品，而且我們也透過不同國家的市場貿易的一些簡易的談判，希望能夠儘早的開發到其他市場，我們是用這樣的一個方式，包括加工的部分。"],["黃委員建賓：謝謝部長，我相信農業部非常努力，不過我們還是看一下圖表，我們也很努力的想要開拓新的市場，只要能夠賺錢，農民絕對支持，不過現實告訴我們，最大的市場還是在中國大陸。這是事實，對不對？我們當然有試著要往高端地方去，譬如透過冷鏈技術到北美，這些農民都試過，農會也都嘗試過，甚至東南亞我們也銷了，可是從圖表上來看，確實有98%還在中國大陸！所以我們還是希望在找到新市場之前，是不是可以把現有的市場維護好？院長你同不同意？"],["陳院長建仁：這是應該的，剛才部長已經講得很清楚，我們希望已經有的市場能繼續保存。在這裡我們也要呼籲中國，應該對屏東出產的、這麼好的鳳梨釋迦能多多進口……"],["黃委員建賓：臺東，是臺東。"],["陳院長建仁：臺東。"],["黃委員建賓：我是臺東的立委，謝謝，我相信農業部也會盡力幫我們農民做外銷。","第二個問題其實也同樣在圖表上。你可以看到中國大陸110年9月時，也就是46980之後的數字、數量開始減少，甚至停滯……"],["陳代理部長駿季：那時候是被中國禁止。"],["黃委員建賓：部長，我就是要講這件事情。在110年9月20日……應該是9月20日時，中國以檢查出介殼蟲的理由停止輸出，應該是這個時候吧？"],["陳代理部長駿季：是。"],["黃委員建賓：因此所有釋迦完全沒辦法進入。"],["陳代理部長駿季：是。"],["黃委員建賓：我跟部長分享一個故事。我有個朋友當年因為看到釋迦產業好，於是辭掉北部的工作，青年返鄉，從事農業。那時候他是騎著杜卡迪巡田水，但前幾年看到他時卻是騎著Gogoro送外賣，為什麼會這樣？其實上面已經告訴大家了。我想要講的是，我們要回到事情的本質，如果今天問題是介殼蟲，我們就來解決它，我相信部長也同意。這件事是影響的因素，但提高自己本身的本質才是外銷最重要的事。所以臺東縣政府很努力在尋求解決方法，我們找了臺東大學來解決，看怎麼樣來降低粉介殼蟲的載蟲率，並提升品質。去年饒縣長也率隊到大陸做說明與談判，回來之後也積極推展農業產業外銷履歷，最重要的是降低介殼蟲載蟲的清載率。因此，獲得中國大陸再次同意輸出，我們的果農看到了一線生機。當然，一開始的政策推動一定會有一些缺失，對不對？所以同年，我們在外銷的三百多件釋迦裡，確實發現仍有大概10%的介殼蟲殘留。農業部也很認真，同年也到臺東縣的17個包裝場再一次做檢驗，確實也有驗到，是不是？有驗到吧？"],["陳代理部長駿季：跟委員說明一下，對於介殼蟲我們現在有系統性的輔導方案，對供果園本身的登錄與其輔導系統，我們特別成立了鳳梨釋迦輔導團隊，然後由這個輔導團隊特別去針對介殼蟲本身的清潔。過去的清潔通常是比較沒有系統性的清潔，也就是用噴槍噴一噴，但你這邊噴了，介殼蟲會跑到另一邊去，那邊噴了又回來。所以我們非常重視噴的系統，也提供適當的補助來協助果農。第二個部分，果園非常重要，特別是從果園到包裝場的管理。這些管理如果到位，再加上我們在邊境出境之前做三倍的檢驗把關，我們希望能透過這樣的方式輸往中國……"],["黃委員建賓：部長……"],["陳代理部長駿季：目前大概是兩批。"],["黃委員建賓：部長，我瞭解。部長，後面是不是還有驗到介殼蟲？有驗到嗎？還是有驗到吧？"],["陳代理部長駿季：還是會有，陸陸續續還是會有。"],["黃委員建賓：有沒有可能為了這一成沒有及格的包裝場，而影響其他九成合格的產品？"],["陳代理部長駿季：我要先跟委員說明，通常在國際規範裡，如果介殼蟲被驗到的話，其實用燻蒸就可以再進去，而不是直接退運！這在其他國家……"],["黃委員建賓：薰蒸後，釋迦就不會成熟了啦！"],["陳代理部長駿季：沒有，那個薰蒸是要看成熟度跟它的方法，所以我們現在的作法就是在邊境三倍把關，這樣能夠攔檢一部分，但是我們不能夠確保田間裡面的清潔能夠百分之百，我們會有一個系統性的輔導，希望把頻度降到最低。"],["黃委員建賓：好，部長的說明非常詳細，我想我今天……"],["陳院長建仁：我想我們要努力啦！"],["黃委員建賓：院長，我要表達一件事情，當時臺東縣政府發現介殼蟲的時候，其實很想要輔導他，就像有人考試不及格我們會趕快找來，找來補考嘛，所以臺東縣就發文去我們的農業部，請院長、部長看一下，這張是農業部給臺東縣政府的公文，公文提到「依據政府資訊公開法第18條第1項第7款規定，為確保當事人之權益……建議貴府逕洽輸出業者或包裝場瞭解及採行輔導措施」，就是你自己去問啦，哪幾家我不知道，你自己去問。部長，誰沒有寫功課的舉手？"],["陳代理部長駿季：我想這件事情要跟委員特別說明，當初中國同意我們鳳梨釋迦的出口過程中，他的檢疫相關規定並沒有正式通知我們，因為兩國的貿易檢疫都必須要有互相知會，就是必須要用甚麼樣的包裝，而且中國核准的包裝場，他也沒有提供是根據什麼樣的條件去核准的，所以對我們農業部、防檢署來講，我們並不能夠很確定中國核准包裝場是基於什麼樣的條件，所以我們回應的時候就說我們不知道這樣的包裝場是哪一個。"],["黃委員建賓：有跟臺東縣政府溝通過嗎？臺東縣政府……"],["陳代理部長駿季：我們也問過，問題是臺東縣政府說是根據他們所擬定的相關輔導規範。"],["黃委員建賓：確實檢驗出介殼蟲是事實，臺東縣政府想了解這幾家廠商，有難度嗎？"],["陳代理部長駿季：對啊，我們是從邊境檢疫的部分，然後透過我們的輔導團隊……"],["黃委員建賓：部長，部長，臺東縣政府只是想要知道哪幾家不及格，我們並沒有要公開他，饒縣長花了這麼多心思，無非就是希望釋迦產業能夠持續、永續的發展下去，臺東縣政府苦尋無路後找了本席，本席也發文，在過年前趕快發文到農業部，拜託一下讓我們知道，結果你們的回應還是一樣，我認識的字可能不是那麼多，後面那個紅線的意思好像是說：委員，你自己一家家去查啦！"],["陳代理部長駿季：我想我絕對沒有講這種話！"],["黃委員建賓：你是要我擲筊好了！"],["陳代理部長駿季：我絕對不會講這種話！"],["黃委員建賓：這個公文的意思……"],["陳代理部長駿季：因為我一向認為中央跟地方一定是共同合作去協助這個產業。"],["黃委員建賓：部長，我們先回到這份公文，這個公文的內容是這樣子，紅字的部分啊！部長，其實我們並沒有要強調是誰的功勞，防疫本來就是中央跟地方要共同合作，我們的目的就只有一個，希望我們好不容易建立起來的綠金產業能夠發展下去，因為這影響的不只是果農，還有很多自產業者，甚至這些幫農的農民，所以這個部分也要拜託部長，未來如果有這種情形，希望我們能夠共同合作，臺東縣政府絕對絕對會配合。","好，謝謝部長。部長，其實我們是第一次見面，或許在釋迦議題上曾經臺東縣政府跟中央有一些誤會，我們希望以後在部長的帶領下能夠讓彼此更瞭解。"],["陳代理部長駿季：我跟委員說明，其實現在農業部跟縣政府或農會也好，都有非常好的溝通管道，有一些東西，包括已經被驗出的包裝場，因為這是屬於他個人的資訊，我們沒辦法正式的去公開，但是我們會透過輔導團隊去協助。"],["黃委員建賓：對啦，就是輔導這樣啦，輔導啦，我們是想說如果部裡面願意來做當然是最好啊，你也知道臺東縣政府的人力、物力都不是這麼充足，如果部願意來輔導是最棒的事情，讓我們一起為釋迦產業來努力。"],["陳代理部長駿季：是。"],["黃委員建賓：謝謝部長。"],["陳院長建仁：對啦，中央跟地方要合作，而且公私也要協力，所以廠商本身、種植農戶本身也要對於除蟲設施是自己有想要精進，然後大家一起來努力……"],["黃委員建賓：院長，我們絕對支持。"],["陳院長建仁：要不然你要資料的時候，有時候我們還得為這些果農保密等等，這裡面也牽涉到一些問題，所以大家開誠布公坐下來談，認真來打拚。"],["黃委員建賓：是啦！臺灣是個海洋國家，一定要向外發展，這個大家都有共識，所以想要對外發展，自己的品質要提升，這個也是我們努力的目標。"],["陳院長建仁：對！"],["黃委員建賓：謝謝部長及院長。","接下來我們要談第二個長久以來一直困擾臺東的問題，就是交通議題。院長，你去臺東時是坐車還是開車？還是搭火車、飛機？"],["陳院長建仁：我是坐火車，然後在臺東去看不同教堂的時候當然就是坐巴士。"],["黃委員建賓：臺東其實沿途都非常漂亮，從台9線一路都非常漂亮，從太平洋到縱谷線的風景都非常優美，但是臺東其實也很危險，以前有一個笑話就是說臺東縣常常在獨立，我們只要遇到颱風，路面崩塌了、橋斷了，我們就獨立了。我還記得莫拉克颱風的時候，當時我在鄉公所擔任村幹事，我的印象非常深刻，路斷了，臺東就獨立了，因為物資進不來，就只能靠空投，甚至還動用國防部把軍艦開到外海，然後我們漁民用膠筏去外海把物資載進來，鄉親在岸邊搶灘，我印象很深刻，戰爭的過程好像就是這個樣子，這也凸顯出了我們交通的困境就是我們只有一條路而已！","部長，接下來這一張是最近才熱騰騰出爐的照片，應該是前幾天才發生的吧，部長知道這是哪個路段嗎？"],["王部長國材：應該是台9線。"],["黃委員建賓：台9線嘛，跟部長說明，這是台9線鹿野剛好拓寬的那個路段，這個地方的拓寬造成民眾有非常多的怨言，因為民眾不太瞭解的是路好好的、大大的，為什麼要種樹，弄得指示上不是很明確，我們花這麼多錢去做，然後還徵收土地，甚至拆房屋，做出來的路卻造成這樣的結果。"],["王部長國材：是，我跟委員報告，當時台9花東景觀大道的計畫就是要做成景觀大道，當時的想法就是台9線這麼漂亮，希望把這些綠化弄得更好，其實這個是有得名的，就是有評比是……"],["陳院長建仁：世界設計展。"],["王部長國材：對，就類似台11跟台9，希望把它做漂亮一點，所以有很多景觀設施……"],["黃委員建賓：當然美化很重要，但路還是拿來開的啦！部長，我真的代表鹿野地區民眾的心聲，部長，你們有跟在地的鄉鎮公所及居民討論過嗎？"],["王部長國材：有，那整條都有經過地方的討論，包括有些地方要不要，比如說綠帶要放哪裡等等都有討論，討論非常久！"],["黃委員建賓：部長，我覺得這個在會後，我們還要再跟當地的鄉鎮公所來提，因為本席從上任至今就一直收到關於這個拓寬案的陳情案，這個我們會後再來討論，我們在委員會也可以再來討論這個部分。"],["王部長國材：好。"],["黃委員建賓：院長，這個道路問題真的很需要，而且回家安全的路只有一條。"],["陳院長建仁：對，我們確實要確保臺東的人有一條安全回家的路，這個我們中央跟地方會一起合作。"],["王部長國材：不過這個事故我覺得也有可能是駕駛的行為，因為本來要把它分隔是想讓它比較安全啦，我是覺得這個……"],["黃委員建賓：結果反而……"],["陳院長建仁：這張看起來好像不是設計錯誤，這只是我個人的猜測。"],["黃委員建賓：這個照片是我們東部執行長洪宗楷發的照片啦。"],["王部長國材：對，我是說這個到底是駕駛的因素還是設計的因素，我們再來……"],["陳院長建仁：是不是設計錯誤……"],["黃委員建賓：我們在設計上是不是能再檢討這件事情？"],["王部長國材：是、是、是。"],["黃委員建賓：我們臺東這12年來，先前的前一位立委做了12年都在交通委員會，民進黨這8年也在執政，我們等了12年結果我們等來什麼路？院長，我們來看下一張照片，我們12年等到的這條路是關山戰備道，院長有發現這條路蓋在什麼地方嗎？"],["陳院長建仁：這個我不是很清楚。"],["王部長國材：台9吧。"],["黃委員建賓：院長及國防部長，這條戰備跑道是蓋在農田上，這些都是良田耶！臺東的糧倉就在縱谷地區，你把戰備跑道蓋在良田上，我不知道是基於什麼樣的原因？"],["邱部長國正：這個我要跟委員報告一下，戰備道這部分原本當地為了交通方便，本來就要修一條路把它拓寬，既然有道路的話，我們也想到說道路的機場可以停機是不夠的，包含西部地區，那花東地區我們也找不到，找不到我們絕不會為了要做一個戰備道讓飛機能夠起降而影響到其他的交通，這都是既有的把它拓寬，把它變成可以做起降……"],["黃委員建賓：是。"],["邱部長國正：這還在規劃當中。"],["黃委員建賓：報告部長，國防安全我們絕對支持，因為守護國家安全是每一個人的責任，可是我們為了要戰備跑道，把它蓋在良田上，這件事情我覺得很奇怪，明明旁邊不是還有道路，為什麼一定要跟農民爭農地？"],["邱部長國正：這個我要跟委員報告，現在目前委員提供的這個圖，我們以前所規劃的都是跟地方政府協調過，都沒有問題，現在怎麼會影響到講說毀棄良田，我必須要做一個查證以後再去跟委員做……"],["黃委員建賓：部長，這個下去衍生的問題很多，成為戰備跑道之後是不是未來也有一些限制，比如說現在農田灑藥是用無人機，那這個會影響到，會嗎？會不會？好，這個問題再來討論。我想要表達的是，如果戰爭都還沒爆發就先爆發糧食危機，我想要問一問在場的每一位長官，今天真的打仗的話，你們是吃飽上戰場還是挨餓上戰場吃子彈？糧食的問題同樣重要，不是嗎？這是戰略物資吧！"],["陳院長建仁：但兩個一樣重要。"],["黃委員建賓：所以這個東西我們是不是能夠好好來檢討，本席堅決的、堅決的要求這個路線一定要改，不能因為為了要做戰備跑道而犧牲農民，這個是他們吃飯的，他們養家餬口的地方。部長，這件事情我代表農民跟部長來陳情。"],["邱部長國正：我跟委員報告，委員講得很對，我們國軍做任何工程的話也是考量這個，不會貿然去做，一定跟地方政府，跟整個……"],["黃委員建賓：是，部長，我還是建議要求，我們旁邊其實，請看上一張圖片，戰備跑道的右邊其實還是有地的，它會影響農民最少，國防安全我們絕對支持，國防安全我們絕對支持，但是是不是可以不要犧牲農民的權益，這是本席的要求。","院長，其實臺東人要的很簡單，真的很簡單，就是一條平安、安全、快速回家的道路，為了國防安全我們都願意支持，但是也要還給臺東人用路的正義，還給臺東人一條平安回家快速的道路，所以我另外也堅決的支持興建花東快速道路，請問院長，你支不支持這件事情？"],["陳院長建仁：在做可行性研究當中。委員，我先跟你簡單說明一下，我們要開一條路一定要做可行性評估，需要的話還要再做環評，然後細部規劃等等的，會有一個程序，那現在的程序是在可行性研究這個階段。那可行性研究，對臺東的話，可能我們交通部都會給可行性研究的相關經費來進行……"],["黃委員建賓：瞭解。謝謝院長，我相信院長會，像院長你都提到你520之後要離開行政團隊，不過我相信不管院長在哪裡，你都會繼續支持也協助我們臺東的發展，就像我第一次聽到院長你到南興看我們錫神父的精神一樣。錫神父在臺東人的心目中地位非常的崇高，因為他是第一個到偏鄉來傳教，而且是照顧臺東子弟的一位神父，所以我相信院長也一定會秉持這樣的精神來照顧偏鄉的子弟，我也謝謝院長，也謝謝我們兩位部長。","剛剛好有一點點的時間，我想我再插播一下，接下來那個問題可能會跟我們韓院長有一點關係，院長，我待會可能會提到韓院長，不好意思齁。院長，我最近在新聞上看到沸沸揚揚的就是民主基金會董事長這件事情，那我們也看到新聞這邊有執政黨的委員說，如果接下來換了董事長之後，我們的整個方向會改變。我不知道，我聽不太懂這個意思，那我也不知道說在擔心什麼，這個要問哪個單位？"],["陳院長建仁：關於這個部分，我想民主基金會它是一個獨立運作的基金會，那基金會在2月28號的新聞稿已經有表示，在董事長出缺以後3個月必須要重新改選董事長，目前是正在協調要召開董事會的過程。"],["黃委員建賓：照慣例是？"],["陳院長建仁：民主基金會。"],["黃委員建賓：對。"],["陳院長建仁：我們會表示尊重。"],["黃委員建賓：照慣例是我們立法院的院長，對不對？"],["陳院長建仁：對，現在就是董事會……"],["黃委員建賓：為什麼執政黨的委員會說如果換人之後方向就不一樣？我不知道哪裡方向不一樣，我們不是都共同有一樣的信念嗎？我們不是都共同要守護中華民國嗎？我相信在場的人都一樣，都是捍衛這塊土地上的自由民主，應該是這樣吧！"],["陳院長建仁：對，我想這個基金會……"],["黃委員建賓：換人之後會有什麼差別？"],["陳院長建仁：現在是這樣啦！這個會的游前董事長、游院長已經卸任了，在他卸任這個職務以後，當然董事還有董事長這些職務會由相關的情況來……"],["黃委員建賓：我相信這個話題會……"],["陳院長建仁：但是你不用擔心啦！我們一定按照原來基金會運作的方式，我請次長來說明會比較清楚。"],["田次長中光：委員好，現在基金會他們要找一個確定的時間先開董事會，那麼董事會按它的章程去處理這個事情。"],["陳院長建仁：對啊！"],["黃委員建賓：謝謝，感謝你們的說明，我們覺得應該我們都是在同一條船上的。"],["陳院長建仁：對。"],["黃委員建賓：我們共同的信念都是捍衛這塊土地的自由跟民主。"],["陳院長建仁：對，我們一定是尊重傳統啦！"],["黃委員建賓：謝謝院長。"],["陳院長建仁：由基金會來負責嘛！"],["黃委員建賓：謝謝院長，謝謝韓院長，本席質詢到此，謝謝。"],["主席：謝謝黃委員建賓的質詢，也謝謝陳院長的備詢。","接下來我們請登記第30號郭委員昱晴，請質詢。"]],"agenda":{"page_end":86,"meet_id":"院會-11-1-3","speakers":["韓國瑜","牛煦庭","王定宇","林沛祥","李柏毅","翁曉玲","蔡易餘","羅廷瑋","伍麗華Saidhai‧Tahovecahe","黃建賓","郭昱晴","陳培瑜"],"page_start":1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二、3月1日上午9時至10時為國是論壇時間。\n 三、3月5日下午1時50分至2時30分為處理臨時提案時間。）\n發言委員：黃建賓"},"job_id":"c0n2xx1GLSG1vCFi","queued_at":"2024-06-02 13:37:58","status":"done","log":[{"time":"2024-06-02 13:40:18","msg":"https://ivod.ly.gov.tw/Play/Clip/1M/149174 already downloaded"},{"time":"2024-06-02 13:40:18","msg":"running whisperx with  --language zh --model large-v3 --initial_prompt '會議名稱：第11屆第1會期第3次會議（事由：一、對行政院院長提出施政方針及施政報告繼續質詢。\n 二、3月1日上午9時至10時為國是論壇時間。\n 三、3月5日下午1時50分至2時30分為處理臨時提案時間。）\n發言委員：黃建賓'"},{"time":"2024-06-02 13:40:55","msg":"merging result"},{"time":"2024-06-02 13:40:55","msg":"status: done"}],"result":{"json":"{\"segments\": [{\"start\": 0.009, \"end\": 0.486, \"text\": \"響鐘\", \"words\": []}, {\"start\": 25.209, \"end\": 31.192, \"text\": \"謝謝,謝謝院長。請一下我們的行政院陳院長。麻煩請陳院長備詢。黃委員午安,恭喜你當選立委。謝謝院長,院長平安。\", \"words\": [{\"word\": \"謝\"}, {\"word\": \"謝\"}, {\"word\": \",\"}, {\"word\": \"謝\"}, {\"word\": \"謝\"}, {\"word\": \"院\", \"start\": 25.209, \"end\": 25.97, \"score\": 0.909}, {\"word\": \"長\"}, 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\"end\": 685.206, \"text\": \"所以在去年我們老縣長也率隊到大陸去來做這樣的說明跟談判。所以回來之後也積極的推展這個農業的這個產業外銷履歷。還有最重要的是我們甲介殼種宅種的清採的降低它的清採率。那當然因為這樣子獲得中國大陸再次的同意我們可以輸出農民看到的我們的果農看到的一線的升級。\", \"words\": [{\"word\": \"所\", \"start\": 657.941, \"end\": 658.141, \"score\": 0.888}, {\"word\": \"以\", \"start\": 658.141, \"end\": 658.681, \"score\": 0.967}, {\"word\": \"在\", \"start\": 658.681, \"end\": 658.861, \"score\": 0.998}, {\"word\": \"去\", \"start\": 658.861, \"end\": 659.041, \"score\": 0.945}, {\"word\": \"年\", \"start\": 659.041, \"end\": 659.641, \"score\": 0.989}, {\"word\": \"我\", \"start\": 659.641, \"end\": 659.861, \"score\": 0.824}, {\"word\": \"們\"}, {\"word\": \"老\", \"start\": 659.861, \"end\": 660.441, \"score\": 0.896}, {\"word\": \"縣\"}, {\"word\": \"長\"}, {\"word\": \"也\", \"start\": 660.441, \"end\": 660.742, \"score\": 1.0}, {\"word\": \"率\", \"start\": 660.742, \"end\": 661.102, \"score\": 0.934}, {\"word\": \"隊\"}, {\"word\": \"到\", \"start\": 661.102, \"end\": 661.522, \"score\": 0.997}, 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\"是\", \"start\": 712.087, \"end\": 712.207, \"score\": 0.833}, {\"word\": \"沒\", \"start\": 712.207, \"end\": 712.367, \"score\": 0.875}, {\"word\": \"有\", \"start\": 712.367, \"end\": 712.687, \"score\": 0.875}, {\"word\": \"嚴\"}, {\"word\": \"重\", \"start\": 712.687, \"end\": 712.827, \"score\": 0.744}, {\"word\": \"對\"}, {\"word\": \"吧\", \"start\": 712.827, \"end\": 714.268, \"score\": 0.986}, {\"word\": \"?\"}, {\"word\": \"有\", \"start\": 714.268, \"end\": 714.508, \"score\": 0.894}, {\"word\": \"點\"}, {\"word\": \"大\", \"start\": 714.508, \"end\": 714.528, \"score\": 0.136}, {\"word\": \"嗎\"}, {\"word\": \"?\"}]}, {\"start\": 716.194, \"end\": 742.515, \"text\": \"我想跟委員說明一下就是藉口總的部分我們大概現在有一個系統性的一個輔導的方案從我們的整個的公國園本身的一個登錄跟他的一個輔導的系統特別是我們成立的一個鳳梨世家的一個輔導團隊然後這個輔導團隊裡面特別針對藉口總本身的清潔因為過去的清潔通常是比較沒有一個系統性的清潔等於說就是用噴槍噴一噴以後那個藉口總會\", \"words\": [{\"word\": \"我\", \"start\": 716.194, \"end\": 716.314, \"score\": 0.801}, {\"word\": \"想\", \"start\": 716.314, \"end\": 716.695, \"score\": 0.998}, 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{\"start\": 1785.211, \"end\": 1785.911, \"text\": \"我請次長來說明比較清楚。\", \"words\": [{\"word\": \"我\", \"start\": 1785.211, \"end\": 1785.291, \"score\": 0.751}, {\"word\": \"請\"}, {\"word\": \"次\", \"start\": 1785.291, \"end\": 1785.651, \"score\": 0.944}, {\"word\": \"長\"}, {\"word\": \"來\"}, {\"word\": \"說\"}, {\"word\": \"明\", \"start\": 1785.651, \"end\": 1785.711, \"score\": 0.667}, {\"word\": \"比\", \"start\": 1785.711, \"end\": 1785.751, \"score\": 0.5}, {\"word\": \"較\"}, {\"word\": \"清\", \"start\": 1785.751, \"end\": 1785.891, \"score\": 0.856}, {\"word\": \"楚\", \"start\": 1785.891, \"end\": 1785.911, \"score\": 0.0}, {\"word\": \"。\"}]}, {\"start\": 1810.777, \"end\": 1819.484, \"text\": \"委員好,現在基金會他們要找一個確定的時間,先開會,開董事會,那麼董事會也有按照章程去處理這個事情。謝謝。\", \"words\": [{\"word\": \"委\", \"start\": 1810.777, \"end\": 1810.997, \"score\": 0.815}, {\"word\": \"員\"}, {\"word\": \"好\", \"start\": 1810.997, \"end\": 1811.518, \"score\": 0.942}, {\"word\": \",\"}, {\"word\": \"現\"}, {\"word\": 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\"謝\"}, {\"word\": \"。\"}, {\"word\": \"謝\"}, {\"word\": \"謝\"}, {\"word\": \"黃\"}, {\"word\": \"院\", \"start\": 1834.517, \"end\": 1834.597, \"score\": 0.75}, {\"word\": \"長\"}, {\"word\": \"本\", \"start\": 1834.597, \"end\": 1834.757, \"score\": 0.875}, {\"word\": \"期\", \"start\": 1834.757, \"end\": 1834.818, \"score\": 0.667}, {\"word\": \"質\"}, {\"word\": \"詢\"}, {\"word\": \"到\", \"start\": 1834.818, \"end\": 1834.878, \"score\": 0.667}, {\"word\": \"此\", \"start\": 1834.878, \"end\": 1834.898, \"score\": 0.0}, {\"word\": \"謝\"}, {\"word\": \"謝\"}], \"language\": \"zh\"}","srt":"1\n00:00:25,209 --> 00:00:31,192\n謝謝,謝謝院長。請一下我們的行政院陳院長。麻煩請陳院長備詢。黃委員午安,恭喜你當選立委。謝謝院長,院長平安。\n\n2\n00:00:44,404 --> 00:01:05,743\n我聽說之前院長在擔任副總統的時候曾經到過臺東縣大武鄉的一個主教的神父西神父的墓園去追思過法是不是?我很喜歡臺東而且那裡有那個我們瑞士白冷會的神父們很多所以我很想念他們\n\n3\n00:01:06,778 --> 00:01:07,538\n其實臺東是一塊多元的土地。\n\n4\n00:01:34,692 --> 00:01:57,223\n這塊土地上其實除了原住民的朋友以外我們的同胞以外有很多是來自其實其他縣市來到台東這塊土地開墾的像是台南或是彰化雲林各個縣市都有像我的外省主婦也是早期來到後山來開墾那我想這麼多的人其實從我們的\n\n5\n00:01:58,203 --> 00:01:58,924\n黃建賓黃建賓黃建賓\n\n6\n00:02:15,299 --> 00:02:39,857\n所以我相信也是因為這樣造就台中人非常刻苦耐勞的精神那可能又是在這樣的環境好山好水然後跟原住民同胞一起生活相信相對的樂觀也非常的友善堅強我相信但是其實院長友善的背後其實含著很多的無奈我大概跟院長講一下台中曾經是被譽為被遺忘的城市\n\n7\n00:02:44,285 --> 00:03:02,521\n臺中縣的土地面積是全國第三大,那人口大概是21萬。我們這個就是百分之一的人口住在十分之一的土地上。西部的朋友很羨慕我們,我們的生活空間很寬闊、很舒服。那其實也相對的是相對的發展落後跟不方便。\n\n8\n00:03:05,138 --> 00:03:32,458\n過去臺東縣政府的臺東縣的人口的這個不管是人口增長率、自然增加率還有社會增加率在108年的時候調查是全國縣市排名第22也就是倒數第一名經過很多年的努力一直到了110年轉為正的2.02%那排名大幅提升是全國第5那在這個過程裡面其實臺東縣政府用了很多的力氣來發展屬於自己的產業\n\n9\n00:03:35,543 --> 00:03:49,803\n那我想要問院長,在台東的改變裡面,你覺得中央給予台東什麼樣的協助?這是一個很好的問題,因為台東確實它是一個農業縣,所以在\n\n10\n00:03:50,696 --> 00:03:50,716\n韓國瑜議員\n\n11\n00:04:10,043 --> 00:04:10,743\n臺東縣政府前瞻計畫分到七十五億。\n\n12\n00:04:29,181 --> 00:04:50,494\n八年民進黨執政75億這麼大的土地人口這麼大的土地這樣少的人口用這樣的分配其實不太公平特別是我們台東縣內族群多元做原住民、客家人、民漢還有新住民我們還要管理兩個離島綠島跟蘭嶼這樣的經費其實不夠的也希望院長能夠多多幫助台東\n\n13\n00:04:53,059 --> 00:05:14,638\n發言委員,所以為什麼那個中央的交通建設包括雙軌還有電氣化還有南回的部分都放在台東然後剛才提到花東基金每年也有10億的預算鄉鎮公所也可以提出2億那這個部分現在執行率都達到了百分之九十幾那所以說只要是不管是公所也好或縣政府提出來的\n\n14\n00:05:16,219 --> 00:05:26,846\n我們覺得可以的,我們就盡量來幫助,只要他執行力。當然當然,中央政府也會努力我們看到,可是臺東縣政府如果有更大的資源,他不用去走自己的路。當然。當然。當然。當然。當然。當然。當然。當然。當然。\n\n15\n00:05:40,492 --> 00:05:40,512\n臺東負責\n\n16\n00:06:04,395 --> 00:06:21,906\n臺東因為天然環境的關係,我們的交通不便,我們人口少,商業行為少,所以我們其實就從基礎的農業來發展。那這幾年來我們找到了一個可以代表臺東很重要的一個經濟產物,就是釋迦。臺東縣政府的豐田釋迦在2019年的時候產值已經達到了10億美元。\n\n17\n00:06:25,552 --> 00:06:53,472\n是,那這個是我們從農業部裡面調到的資料這個是在民國110年的12月到113年的1月份那院長跟部長可以空這表格看到其實現在臺東的私家最主要的輸出的地點還是在我們中國大陸不管是他的產量或是他的產值部分那可以看得到那接下來我覺得要請教一下院長\n\n18\n00:06:56,171 --> 00:07:17,606\n兩岸發生一個金門撞船的事件鬧得悲悲揚揚。我想請教院長,這個事項已經有一個很好的商業模式,那如果未來遇到類似這樣子會造成兩岸關係緊張的議題而中斷,我們如果沒有辦法銷往中國大陸,請問\n\n19\n00:07:19,594 --> 00:07:38,451\n院長或部長,你要告訴我們農民我們要銷到什麼地方去。這個部分我想我們農業部有一個對策。我想跟委員說明,第一個部分就是我們絕對不會輕易的放棄任何一個市場,包括中國市場。第二個部分就是過往我們對於中國輸出的比較低\n\n20\n00:07:40,779 --> 00:07:40,799\n韓國瑜\n\n21\n00:07:57,534 --> 00:07:58,835\n謝謝部長。我相信農業部非常努力。不過我們還是看一下圖表。剛剛哪張圖表?上一張圖表。\n\n22\n00:08:27,807 --> 00:08:36,929\n我們也很努力的想要開拓新的市場只要能夠賺錢農民絕對支持不過現實告訴我們最大的市場還是在中國大陸\n\n23\n00:08:38,288 --> 00:08:40,909\n這個我想是應該嘛,剛才我們主委已經講得很清楚,我們希望\n\n24\n00:09:29,344 --> 00:09:50,034\n我相信農業部也會盡力的幫我們農民來做外銷再做努力。那我們現在提到第二個問題是其實也是同樣這樣圖表上你可以看到在中國稻寨110年大概是9月的時候就是那個46980後面那個數字之後開始數量都停止甚至減少\n\n25\n00:09:50,834 --> 00:10:19,891\n那是被中國禁止那時候對部長我就要講這件事情這件事情就是在我們的110年9月20號應該是9月20號那個時候因為中國用因為檢查出有假借可寵這個理由停止輸出對嘛應該是這個時候所以所有世家完全沒辦法進入嘛我跟部長分享一個故事我一個朋友當年因為看到世家產業好他撕掉北部的工作板箱然後青年板箱從事農業\n\n26\n00:10:20,882 --> 00:10:35,436\n他那時候是騎著Ducati在巡產水。我前幾年看到他是騎著GoGo的在送外賣。為什麼會這樣其實上面已經告訴大家了。那我想要講的是我們還是要回到事情的本質。如果今天是假藉口什麼問題我們就來解決它。\n\n27\n00:10:37,042 --> 00:10:56,920\n我相信部長也同意這件事情。甚至是一個影響因素,但是提高自己本身的本質才是外銷最重要的事情。所以台中縣政府也很努力的來尋求這個解決的方法。我們開始找了我們台中大學來解決怎麼樣讓我們對本屆各種的這個載存率能夠降低,然後提升我們的品質。\n\n28\n00:10:57,941 --> 00:11:25,206\n所以在去年我們老縣長也率隊到大陸去來做這樣的說明跟談判。所以回來之後也積極的推展這個農業的這個產業外銷履歷。還有最重要的是我們甲介殼種宅種的清採的降低它的清採率。那當然因為這樣子獲得中國大陸再次的同意我們可以輸出農民看到的我們的果農看到的一線的升級。\n\n29\n00:11:27,859 --> 00:11:54,528\n當然一開始的政策推動一定會有些缺失嘛,對吧?所以我們在,也是在童年我們在外銷的300多件的這個市價裡面確實也發現還有殘留大概10%的這個假借格寵。我們農業部也很認真的在童年到我們台東縣的17個包裝廠來做這個做一次的再一次的檢驗,它是沒有嚴重對吧?有點大嗎?\n\n30\n00:11:56,194 --> 00:12:22,515\n我想跟委員說明一下就是藉口總的部分我們大概現在有一個系統性的一個輔導的方案從我們的整個的公國園本身的一個登錄跟他的一個輔導的系統特別是我們成立的一個鳳梨世家的一個輔導團隊然後這個輔導團隊裡面特別針對藉口總本身的清潔因為過去的清潔通常是比較沒有一個系統性的清潔等於說就是用噴槍噴一噴以後那個藉口總會\n\n31\n00:12:24,036 --> 00:12:24,356\n拜訪國務委員\n\n32\n00:12:42,301 --> 00:12:43,042\n部長,我了解。部長,我們後門是不是要約到有假借格寵?\n\n33\n00:13:01,527 --> 00:13:27,402\n還是會有?陸陸續續還是會有?我們有沒有可能會為了這一層的沒有及格的包裝廠而影響其他九層合格的其中的包裝的產品?我要先跟委員說明這個從通常在國際規範裡面他如果被驗到他是被用被薰針就可以再進去的而不是直接退運這個是在包括在其他的國家因為那個薰針料寫起來就不會寫了\n\n34\n00:13:28,843 --> 00:13:47,314\n沒有,他的訓練要看你的成熟度跟他的方法。所以我們現在就是在邊境三倍的把關,所以能夠攔檢一部分,但是我們不能夠確保說田間裡面的清潔能夠百分之百。我們會有一個系統性的輔導,希望說他把他的頻度降到最低。\n\n35\n00:13:47,754 --> 00:14:16,065\n好,這樣我部長的說明非常的詳細那我今天其實也有一件事院長我要表達一件事情就是說現在當時台中縣政府發現甲介哥蟲的時候其實很想要來輔導他就像有人考試沒有及格我們會趕快找來嘛應該補考嘛對不對所以他就發文去我們的台中縣政府發文去我們的農業部那院長部長請看就是農業部給台中縣政府的公文\n\n36\n00:14:17,176 --> 00:14:41,383\n只是他依據這個政府資訊公開法第18條第1項第7款規定為確保當事的權益所以請縣府盡洽輸出業者包裝廠了解及採輔導措施就是說你自己去問哪幾家我不知道你自己去問部長誰沒有要寫功課的舉手\n\n37\n00:14:42,947 --> 00:15:08,874\n不過我想這件事情要跟委員特別說明就是當初中國同意我們的鳳梨思佳在出口的過程中它的檢疫的相關的規定並沒有正式通知我們那因為兩國的一個貿易的檢疫都是必須要有一個互相的智慧就是你必須要用什麼樣子的一個包裝而且中國它核准的包裝廠\n\n38\n00:15:10,094 --> 00:15:29,413\n他也沒有提供說他是根據什麼樣的條件去核准的所以對我們農業部來講對房間署來講我們並不能夠很確定的中國核准包裝廠是基於什麼樣的一個條件所以我們回應的時候就是說我們不知道這樣子的一個包裝廠是哪一個\n\n39\n00:15:30,040 --> 00:15:58,240\n有跟臺東縣政府公過嗎?我們也問過,問題是臺東縣政府說是根據他們所擬定的相關的一個輔導規範。那確實檢驗出藉口總則是事實,那臺東縣政府想要了解這幾家廠商有難度嗎?對啊,所以我們是從我們的邊境的檢疫的部分,然後通過我們的輔導團隊。部長,臺東縣政府只是想要知道哪幾家不及格,我們並沒有要公開它。對。\n\n40\n00:15:59,537 --> 00:16:25,642\n然後縣長花了那麼多心思,無非就是希望世家這個產業能夠持續、永續的發展下去。所以台中縣政府苦尋無路,遭到本席。好,那現在這樣,本席也發文,在過年前趕快發文到農業部,拜託一下讓我們知道。結果我們的回應還是一樣,這個我讀的,我認識的資可能不是那麼多,就是後面那個紅線。\n\n41\n00:16:27,944 --> 00:16:52,395\n議事長就是說,委員,你自己去一間一間查。我想我絕對不會講這種話。你叫我伯伯就好了。我絕對不會講這種話。因為我一向認為就是說,中央跟地方一定是共同合作去協助這個產業。部長,我們先回到這份公文,那這份公文的內容是這樣子嗎?同志的部分啊。部長,其實我們並沒有要\n\n42\n00:16:53,976 --> 00:17:19,583\n去強調是誰的功勞防疫本來就是中央跟地方要共同合作我們的目的就只有一個希望我們好不容易建立起這個濾金的才能夠發展下去因為它影響的不只是果農還有很多的資產業者甚至是這些幫農的農民所以這個部分也要拜託我們部長未來如果是這樣我們可以共同合作臺中新聞絕對絕對絕對會配合\n\n43\n00:17:30,083 --> 00:17:30,143\n主席\n\n44\n00:17:45,828 --> 00:18:11,482\n我跟委員說明,其實我們現在農業部跟其實跟縣政府跟農委也好,其實都有非常好的一個溝通的管道。那有一個東西就是包括已經被驗出的這種包裝廠,因為他是屬於他個人的個人的資訊,我們沒辦法就正式的去公開,但是我們會透過輔導團隊去協助。對啦,就輔導這樣啦,輔導啦。我們是想說,如果部裡面願意來做,那當然是最好啊。台中縣政府其實你也知道他的人力,\n\n45\n00:18:12,282 --> 00:18:12,302\n韓國瑜\n\n46\n00:18:30,114 --> 00:18:30,134\n﹝廣告﹞\n\n47\n00:18:49,195 --> 00:19:07,307\n臺灣是一個海洋的國家,它一定要向外去發展,這個大家都公示。所以要對外發展自己的品質要提升,這個也是我們努力的目標。也謝謝部長,也謝謝院長。接下來我們就談第二個長久以來一直困擾台中的問題,就是交通的議題。\n\n48\n00:19:10,453 --> 00:19:37,107\n市長,你去台東的時候是坐車還是開車?我是坐火車,然後在台東去看不同的教堂的時候,我是當然是坐這個巴士。台東其實沿途都非常漂亮,從台九縣一路都非常漂亮,從太平洋到中古縣的風景都非常優美。可是台東其實也很危險,我們以前一個笑話就是台東縣常常在獨立,\n\n49\n00:19:38,319 --> 00:19:39,980\n我印象很深刻戰爭的過程好像就是這麼樣子\n\n50\n00:20:07,003 --> 00:20:07,183\n應該是臺九縣。對。\n\n51\n00:20:34,548 --> 00:20:51,303\n臺九縣嘛齁,應該是跟部長說明這是臺九縣鹿野剛好拖寬的那一段。這個地方的拖寬造成民眾非常多的怨言。因為民眾其實不太了解就是說,那樓盒好大大,為什麼要再裝手啊?然後弄得這樣子,指示上不是很明確。\n\n52\n00:20:52,725 --> 00:20:56,987\n當時的臺九花東景觀大道就是用景觀大道。當時的想法就是說臺九縣這麼漂亮,希望把這些綠化再把它弄得更好。\n\n53\n00:21:15,555 --> 00:21:41,654\n他這個有得過得名,有評比是很優的。就類似臺11跟臺9,是要把它做漂亮一點。美化很重要,路還是拿來開的。部長,我其實真的代表陸地居民中的心聲。部長你們有跟在地的鄉親公所跟居民討論過嗎?有,他那個整條都有地方的討論,包括有一些地方要不要\n\n54\n00:21:42,635 --> 00:21:42,655\n韓國瑜\n\n55\n00:22:01,824 --> 00:22:10,726\n我們確實要確保臺東的人有一條安全回家的路,這個我們中央跟地方可以一起合作。不過這駕駛是我覺得他本來是要把它分隔讓他比較安全\n\n56\n00:22:25,390 --> 00:22:41,109\n我是覺得這個這張好像不是設計錯誤啦我只是我個人的猜測這個是這個照片是我們東部執行長洪宗凱發的照片對我是說這個到底是駕駛的因素還是設計的因素那我實際上是能夠再檢討這件事情是是是\n\n57\n00:22:47,779 --> 00:23:15,375\n我們台中12年,先前一位立委,我們前一位立委,最後12年都在交通委員會。那民進黨在這8年也在執政。那我們等了12年,其實我們等來什麼路?院長,我們看一下這張照片。我們前一年我們在這條路啦,關山、戰備道。院長有發現這條路該在什麼地方嗎?這個我不是很清楚。台九,也是。\n\n58\n00:23:23,859 --> 00:23:44,812\n這條戰備跑道蓋在農田上,這些都是糧田,台東的糧倉就在中古地區,你把戰備跑道蓋在糧田上,我不知道是基於什麼樣的原因?我這個跟委員要報告一下好不好?\n\n59\n00:23:45,543 --> 00:24:11,526\n這戰備道原本就是本來要修條路把拓寬為了交通方便那既然有這戰備道既然有道路的話但我們也想到講說這個道路的機場啊可以停機啊是不夠的關於西部地區但花東地區我們也找到但我們絕對不會想說為了要做一個戰備道讓飛行能夠起降而影響到其他的交通這都既有的往那拓寬\n\n60\n00:24:16,553 --> 00:24:41,207\n國防安全我們絕對支持,因為守護國家安全是每一個人的責任可是我們為了要專門跑道把它蓋在糧田上這件事情我覺得很奇怪明明旁邊不是還有道路為什麼一定要跟農民爭農地我跟委員報告,目前委員提供這個圖我們以前所規劃跟地方政府協調過都沒有問題\n\n61\n00:24:42,150 --> 00:25:11,123\n現在怎麼會影響到講說回去涼田,我要做一個查證以後再去跟我們做什麼。那個部長,這個下去衍生的問題很多欸。你站在跑道你是不是未來也有那個空白那個那個農機的一些限制,譬如說現在農田撒藥是用無人機,那這個會影響到?會嗎?敢沒?好,這個問題再來討論,我想要表達的是說\n\n62\n00:25:13,612 --> 00:25:40,564\n如果戰爭都還沒爆發,就先爆發糧食危機。我想要問一問在場的每位長官,今天真的有打仗的話,你們是挨餓上戰場,你們是吃飽上戰場,還是挨餓上戰場吃子彈?糧食的問題同樣重要不是嗎?這是戰略無知吧?但是兩個一起重要,一樣重要。所以我們這個東西是不是用它來檢討本席堅決的要求?\n\n63\n00:25:43,112 --> 00:25:44,693\n市長,我還是建議要求,我們旁邊其實\n\n64\n00:26:12,338 --> 00:26:18,580\n國防安全我們絕對支持,但是是不是可以不要犧牲農民的權益,這個是本席的要求。\n\n65\n00:26:41,242 --> 00:27:08,305\n委員長,其實臺東人要的很簡單,真的很簡單,就是一條平安、安全、快速回家的道路。那,我們為了國防安全,我們都會支持,但是也要還給臺東人用路的正義,還給臺東人一條平安、回家、快速的道路。所以我另外也堅持,我堅決的支持新建花東快速道路。全院長你知不支持這件事情?\n\n66\n00:27:10,273 --> 00:27:11,319\n在這核心性研究當中。\n\n67\n00:27:13,735 --> 00:27:40,548\n這個委員我先跟你簡單說明一下我們要開一條路一定要做可行性評估然後在需要的話還黃評然後細部規劃等等的會有一個質詢那現在的時程是在可行性研究這個階段那可行性研究對台東的話可能我們交通部都會給個可行性研究的相關的經費了解謝謝院長我現在院長會了這樣院長你都提到你520之後要離開行政團隊嗎\n\n68\n00:27:42,196 --> 00:28:10,390\n那不過我相信不然院長在那裡都會繼續支持也協助我們臺東的發展就像院長我第一次聽到院長你到南興看我們習神父的精神一樣習神父在臺東人的心目中地位非常的崇高因為他是第一個到偏鄉來傳教而且是照顧臺東子弟的一位神父所以我相信院長也因為這樣的精神來照顧偏鄉的子弟我也謝謝院長\n\n69\n00:28:12,881 --> 00:28:40,609\n那也謝謝我們兩位部長剛剛還有一點點的時間我想我再插播一下接下來可能那個問題會跟我們韓院長有點關係院長我待會可能會提到韓院長不好意思那個院長我最近在新聞上看到廢廢樣的就是這個民主基金會董事長這件事情我們也看在新聞這邊有執政黨的委員說\n\n70\n00:28:42,763 --> 00:28:54,959\n如果接下來有辦了董事長之後,我們的方向,整個方向會改變。我不知道,我聽不太懂這個意思,那我也不知道說在擔心什麼。這個要問哪一個部分,問哪一個單位。\n\n71\n00:28:57,086 --> 00:29:16,891\n我想這個部分民主基金會他是一個獨立運作的基金會那基金會在2月28日的時候的新聞稿已經有表示董事長出缺以後三個月必須要重新改選董事長目前正在協調要召開董事會的過程\n\n72\n00:29:17,551 --> 00:29:20,533\n我相信在場都一樣吧,都是捍衛這塊土地上的自由民主,應該是這樣吧?對,我想這個基金會\n\n73\n00:29:45,211 --> 00:29:45,911\n我請次長來說明比較清楚。\n\n74\n00:30:10,777 --> 00:30:19,484\n委員好,現在基金會他們要找一個確定的時間,先開會,開董事會,那麼董事會也有按照章程去處理這個事情。謝謝。\n\n75\n00:30:34,517 --> 00:30:34,898\n謝謝黃院長本期質詢到此謝謝\n\n","tsv":"start\tend\ttext\n9\t486\t響鐘\n25209\t31192\t謝謝,謝謝院長。請一下我們的行政院陳院長。麻煩請陳院長備詢。黃委員午安,恭喜你當選立委。謝謝院長,院長平安。\n44404\t65743\t我聽說之前院長在擔任副總統的時候曾經到過臺東縣大武鄉的一個主教的神父西神父的墓園去追思過法是不是?我很喜歡臺東而且那裡有那個我們瑞士白冷會的神父們很多所以我很想念他們\n66778\t67538\t其實臺東是一塊多元的土地。\n94692\t117223\t這塊土地上其實除了原住民的朋友以外我們的同胞以外有很多是來自其實其他縣市來到台東這塊土地開墾的像是台南或是彰化雲林各個縣市都有像我的外省主婦也是早期來到後山來開墾那我想這麼多的人其實從我們的\n118203\t118924\t黃建賓 黃建賓 黃建賓\n135299\t159857\t所以我相信也是因為這樣造就台中人非常刻苦耐勞的精神那可能又是在這樣的環境好山好水然後跟原住民同胞一起生活相信相對的樂觀也非常的友善堅強我相信但是其實院長友善的背後其實含著很多的無奈我大概跟院長講一下台中曾經是被譽為被遺忘的城市\n164285\t182521\t臺中縣的土地面積是全國第三大,那人口大概是21萬。我們這個就是百分之一的人口住在十分之一的土地上。西部的朋友很羨慕我們,我們的生活空間很寬闊、很舒服。那其實也相對的是相對的發展落後跟不方便。\n185138\t212458\t過去臺東縣政府的臺東縣的人口的這個不管是人口增長率、自然增加率還有社會增加率在108年的時候調查是全國縣市排名第22也就是倒數第一名經過很多年的努力一直到了110年轉為正的2.02%那排名大幅提升是全國第5那在這個過程裡面其實臺東縣政府用了很多的力氣來發展屬於自己的產業\n215543\t229803\t那我想要問院長,在台東的改變裡面,你覺得中央給予台東什麼樣的協助?這是一個很好的問題,因為台東確實它是一個農業縣,所以在\n230696\t230716\t韓國瑜議員\n250043\t250743\t臺東縣政府前瞻計畫分到七十五億。\n269181\t290494\t八年民進黨執政75億這麼大的土地人口這麼大的土地這樣少的人口用這樣的分配其實不太公平特別是我們台東縣內族群多元做原住民、客家人、民漢還有新住民我們還要管理兩個離島綠島跟蘭嶼這樣的經費其實不夠的也希望院長能夠多多幫助台東\n293059\t314638\t發言委員,所以為什麼那個中央的交通建設包括雙軌還有電氣化還有南回的部分都放在台東然後剛才提到花東基金每年也有10億的預算鄉鎮公所也可以提出2億那這個部分現在執行率都達到了百分之九十幾那所以說只要是不管是公所也好或縣政府提出來的\n316219\t326846\t我們覺得可以的,我們就盡量來幫助,只要他執行力。當然當然,中央政府也會努力我們看到,可是臺東縣政府如果有更大的資源,他不用去走自己的路。當然。當然。當然。當然。當然。當然。當然。當然。當然。\n340492\t340512\t臺東負責\n364395\t381906\t臺東因為天然環境的關係,我們的交通不便,我們人口少,商業行為少,所以我們其實就從基礎的農業來發展。那這幾年來我們找到了一個可以代表臺東很重要的一個經濟產物,就是釋迦。臺東縣政府的豐田釋迦在2019年的時候產值已經達到了10億美元。\n385552\t413472\t是,那這個是我們從農業部裡面調到的資料這個是在民國110年的12月到113年的1月份那院長跟部長可以空這表格看到其實現在臺東的私家最主要的輸出的地點還是在我們中國大陸不管是他的產量或是他的產值部分那可以看得到那接下來我覺得要請教一下院長\n416171\t437606\t兩岸發生一個金門撞船的事件鬧得悲悲揚揚。我想請教院長,這個事項已經有一個很好的商業模式,那如果未來遇到類似這樣子會造成兩岸關係緊張的議題而中斷,我們如果沒有辦法銷往中國大陸,請問\n439594\t458451\t院長或部長,你要告訴我們農民我們要銷到什麼地方去。這個部分我想我們農業部有一個對策。我想跟委員說明,第一個部分就是我們絕對不會輕易的放棄任何一個市場,包括中國市場。第二個部分就是過往我們對於中國輸出的比較低\n460779\t460799\t韓國瑜\n477534\t478835\t謝謝部長。我相信農業部非常努力。不過我們還是看一下圖表。剛剛哪張圖表?上一張圖表。\n507807\t516929\t我們也很努力的想要開拓新的市場只要能夠賺錢農民絕對支持不過現實告訴我們最大的市場還是在中國大陸\n518288\t520909\t這個我想是應該嘛,剛才我們主委已經講得很清楚,我們希望\n546800\t568183\t臺東臺東\n569344\t590034\t我相信農業部也會盡力的幫我們農民來做外銷再做努力。那我們現在提到第二個問題是其實也是同樣這樣圖表上你可以看到在中國稻寨110年大概是9月的時候就是那個46980後面那個數字之後開始數量都停止甚至減少\n590834\t619891\t那是被中國禁止那時候對部長我就要講這件事情這件事情就是在我們的110年9月20號應該是9月20號那個時候因為中國用因為檢查出有假借可寵這個理由停止輸出對嘛應該是這個時候所以所有世家完全沒辦法進入嘛我跟部長分享一個故事我一個朋友當年因為看到世家產業好他撕掉北部的工作板箱然後青年板箱從事農業\n620882\t635436\t他那時候是騎著Ducati在巡產水。我前幾年看到他是騎著Go Go的在送外賣。為什麼會這樣其實上面已經告訴大家了。那我想要講的是我們還是要回到事情的本質。如果今天是假藉口什麼問題我們就來解決它。\n637042\t656920\t我相信部長也同意這件事情。甚至是一個影響因素,但是提高自己本身的本質才是外銷最重要的事情。所以台中縣政府也很努力的來尋求這個解決的方法。我們開始找了我們台中大學來解決怎麼樣讓我們對本屆各種的這個載存率能夠降低,然後提升我們的品質。\n657941\t685206\t所以在去年我們老縣長也率隊到大陸去來做這樣的說明跟談判。所以回來之後也積極的推展這個農業的這個產業外銷履歷。還有最重要的是我們甲介殼種宅種的清採的降低它的清採率。那當然因為這樣子獲得中國大陸再次的同意我們可以輸出農民看到的我們的果農看到的一線的升級。\n687859\t714528\t當然一開始的政策推動一定會有些缺失嘛,對吧?所以我們在,也是在童年我們在外銷的300多件的這個市價裡面確實也發現還有殘留大概10%的這個假借格寵。我們農業部也很認真的在童年到我們台東縣的17個包裝廠來做這個做一次的再一次的檢驗,它是沒有嚴重對吧?有點大嗎?\n716194\t742515\t我想跟委員說明一下就是藉口總的部分我們大概現在有一個系統性的一個輔導的方案從我們的整個的公國園本身的一個登錄跟他的一個輔導的系統特別是我們成立的一個鳳梨世家的一個輔導團隊然後這個輔導團隊裡面特別針對藉口總本身的清潔因為過去的清潔通常是比較沒有一個系統性的清潔等於說就是用噴槍噴一噴以後那個藉口總會\n744036\t744356\t拜訪國務委員\n762301\t763042\t部長,我了解。部長,我們後門是不是要約到有假借格寵?\n781527\t807402\t還是會有?陸陸續續還是會有?我們有沒有可能會為了這一層的沒有及格的包裝廠而影響其他九層合格的其中的包裝的產品?我要先跟委員說明這個從通常在國際規範裡面他如果被驗到他是被用被薰針就可以再進去的而不是直接退運這個是在包括在其他的國家因為那個薰針料寫起來就不會寫了\n808843\t827314\t沒有,他的訓練要看你的成熟度跟他的方法。所以我們現在就是在邊境三倍的把關,所以能夠攔檢一部分,但是我們不能夠確保說田間裡面的清潔能夠百分之百。我們會有一個系統性的輔導,希望說他把他的頻度降到最低。\n827754\t856065\t好,這樣我部長的說明非常的詳細那我今天其實也有一件事院長我要表達一件事情就是說現在當時台中縣政府發現甲介哥蟲的時候其實很想要來輔導他就像有人考試沒有及格我們會趕快找來嘛應該補考嘛對不對所以他就發文去我們的台中縣政府發文去我們的農業部那院長部長請看就是農業部給台中縣政府的公文\n857176\t881383\t只是他依據這個政府資訊公開法第18條第1項第7款規定為確保當事的權益所以請縣府盡洽輸出業者包裝廠了解及採輔導措施就是說你自己去問哪幾家我不知道你自己去問部長誰沒有要寫功課的舉手\n882947\t908874\t不過我想這件事情要跟委員特別說明就是當初中國同意我們的鳳梨思佳在出口的過程中它的檢疫的相關的規定並沒有正式通知我們那因為兩國的一個貿易的檢疫都是必須要有一個互相的智慧就是你必須要用什麼樣子的一個包裝而且中國它核准的包裝廠\n910094\t929413\t他也沒有提供說他是根據什麼樣的條件去核准的所以對我們農業部來講對房間署來講我們並不能夠很確定的中國核准包裝廠是基於什麼樣的一個條件所以我們回應的時候就是說我們不知道這樣子的一個包裝廠是哪一個\n930040\t958240\t有跟臺東縣政府公過嗎?我們也問過,問題是臺東縣政府說是根據他們所擬定的相關的一個輔導規範。那確實檢驗出藉口總則是事實,那臺東縣政府想要了解這幾家廠商有難度嗎?對啊,所以我們是從我們的邊境的檢疫的部分,然後通過我們的輔導團隊。部長,臺東縣政府只是想要知道哪幾家不及格,我們並沒有要公開它。對。\n959537\t985642\t然後縣長花了那麼多心思,無非就是希望世家這個產業能夠持續、永續的發展下去。所以台中縣政府苦尋無路,遭到本席。好,那現在這樣,本席也發文,在過年前趕快發文到農業部,拜託一下讓我們知道。結果我們的回應還是一樣,這個我讀的,我認識的資可能不是那麼多,就是後面那個紅線。\n987944\t1012395\t議事長就是說,委員,你自己去一間一間查。我想我絕對不會講這種話。你叫我伯伯就好了。我絕對不會講這種話。因為我一向認為就是說,中央跟地方一定是共同合作去協助這個產業。部長,我們先回到這份公文,那這份公文的內容是這樣子嗎?同志的部分啊。部長,其實我們並沒有要\n1013976\t1039583\t去強調是誰的功勞防疫本來就是中央跟地方要共同合作我們的目的就只有一個希望我們好不容易建立起這個濾金的才能夠發展下去因為它影響的不只是果農還有很多的資產業者甚至是這些幫農的農民所以這個部分也要拜託我們部長未來如果是這樣我們可以共同合作臺中新聞絕對絕對絕對會配合\n1050083\t1050143\t主席\n1065828\t1091482\t我跟委員說明,其實我們現在農業部跟其實跟縣政府跟農委也好,其實都有非常好的一個溝通的管道。那有一個東西就是包括已經被驗出的這種包裝廠,因為他是屬於他個人的個人的資訊,我們沒辦法就正式的去公開,但是我們會透過輔導團隊去協助。對啦,就輔導這樣啦,輔導啦。我們是想說,如果部裡面願意來做,那當然是最好啊。台中縣政府其實你也知道他的人力,\n1092282\t1092302\t韓國瑜\n1110114\t1110134\t﹝廣告﹞\n1129195\t1147307\t臺灣是一個海洋的國家,它一定要向外去發展,這個大家都公示。所以要對外發展自己的品質要提升,這個也是我們努力的目標。也謝謝部長,也謝謝院長。接下來我們就談第二個長久以來一直困擾台中的問題,就是交通的議題。\n1150453\t1177107\t市長,你去台東的時候是坐車還是開車?我是坐火車,然後在台東去看不同的教堂的時候,我是當然是坐這個巴士。台東其實沿途都非常漂亮,從台九縣一路都非常漂亮,從太平洋到中古縣的風景都非常優美。可是台東其實也很危險,我們以前一個笑話就是台東縣常常在獨立,\n1178319\t1179980\t我印象很深刻戰爭的過程好像就是這麼樣子\n1207003\t1207183\t應該是臺九縣。對。\n1234548\t1251303\t臺九縣嘛齁,應該是跟部長說明這是臺九縣鹿野剛好拖寬的那一段。這個地方的拖寬造成民眾非常多的怨言。因為民眾其實不太了解就是說,那樓盒好大大,為什麼要再裝手啊?然後弄得這樣子,指示上不是很明確。\n1252725\t1256987\t當時的臺九花東景觀大道就是用景觀大道。當時的想法就是說臺九縣這麼漂亮,希望把這些綠化再把它弄得更好。\n1275555\t1301654\t他這個有得過得名,有評比是很優的。就類似臺11跟臺9,是要把它做漂亮一點。美化很重要,路還是拿來開的。部長,我其實真的代表陸地居民中的心聲。部長你們有跟在地的鄉親公所跟居民討論過嗎?有,他那個整條都有地方的討論,包括有一些地方要不要\n1302635\t1302655\t韓國瑜\n1321824\t1330726\t我們確實要確保臺東的人有一條安全回家的路,這個我們中央跟地方可以一起合作。不過這駕駛是我覺得他本來是要把它分隔讓他比較安全\n1345390\t1361109\t我是覺得這個這張好像不是設計錯誤啦我只是我個人的猜測這個是這個照片是我們東部執行長洪宗凱發的照片對我是說這個到底是駕駛的因素還是設計的因素那我實際上是能夠再檢討這件事情是是是\n1367779\t1395375\t我們台中12年,先前一位立委,我們前一位立委,最後12年都在交通委員會。那民進黨在這8年也在執政。那我們等了12年,其實我們等來什麼路?院長,我們看一下這張照片。我們前一年我們在這條路啦,關山、戰備道。院長有發現這條路該在什麼地方嗎?這個我不是很清楚。台九,也是。\n1403859\t1424812\t這條戰備跑道蓋在農田上,這些都是糧田,台東的糧倉就在中古地區,你把戰備跑道蓋在糧田上,我不知道是基於什麼樣的原因?我這個跟委員要報告一下好不好?\n1425543\t1451526\t這戰備道原本就是本來要修條路把拓寬為了交通方便那既然有這戰備道既然有道路的話但我們也想到講說這個道路的機場啊可以停機啊是不夠的關於西部地區但花東地區我們也找到但我們絕對不會想說為了要做一個戰備道讓飛行能夠起降而影響到其他的交通這都既有的往那拓寬\n1456553\t1481207\t國防安全我們絕對支持,因為守護國家安全是每一個人的責任可是我們為了要專門跑道把它蓋在糧田上這件事情我覺得很奇怪明明旁邊不是還有道路為什麼一定要跟農民爭農地我跟委員報告,目前委員提供這個圖我們以前所規劃跟地方政府協調過都沒有問題\n1482150\t1511123\t現在怎麼會影響到講說回去涼田,我要做一個查證以後再去跟我們做什麼。那個部長,這個下去衍生的問題很多欸。你站在跑道你是不是未來也有那個空白那個那個農機的一些限制,譬如說現在農田撒藥是用無人機,那這個會影響到?會嗎?敢沒?好,這個問題再來討論,我想要表達的是說\n1513612\t1540564\t如果戰爭都還沒爆發,就先爆發糧食危機。我想要問一問在場的每位長官,今天真的有打仗的話,你們是挨餓上戰場,你們是吃飽上戰場,還是挨餓上戰場吃子彈?糧食的問題同樣重要不是嗎?這是戰略無知吧?但是兩個一起重要,一樣重要。所以我們這個東西是不是用它來檢討本席堅決的要求?\n1543112\t1544693\t市長,我還是建議要求,我們旁邊其實\n1572338\t1578580\t國防安全我們絕對支持,但是是不是可以不要犧牲農民的權益,這個是本席的要求。\n1601242\t1628305\t委員長,其實臺東人要的很簡單,真的很簡單,就是一條平安、安全、快速回家的道路。那,我們為了國防安全,我們都會支持,但是也要還給臺東人用路的正義,還給臺東人一條平安、回家、快速的道路。所以我另外也堅持,我堅決的支持新建花東快速道路。全院長你知不支持這件事情?\n1630273\t1631319\t在這核心性研究當中。\n1633735\t1660548\t這個委員我先跟你簡單說明一下我們要開一條路一定要做可行性評估然後在需要的話還黃評然後細部規劃等等的會有一個質詢那現在的時程是在可行性研究這個階段那可行性研究對台東的話可能我們交通部都會給個可行性研究的相關的經費了解謝謝院長我現在院長會了這樣院長你都提到你520之後要離開行政團隊嗎\n1662196\t1690390\t那不過我相信不然院長在那裡都會繼續支持也協助我們臺東的發展就像院長我第一次聽到院長你到南興看我們習神父的精神一樣習神父在臺東人的心目中地位非常的崇高因為他是第一個到偏鄉來傳教而且是照顧臺東子弟的一位神父所以我相信院長也因為這樣的精神來照顧偏鄉的子弟我也謝謝院長\n1692881\t1720609\t那也謝謝我們兩位部長剛剛還有一點點的時間我想我再插播一下接下來可能那個問題會跟我們韓院長有點關係院長我待會可能會提到韓院長不好意思那個院長我最近在新聞上看到廢廢樣的就是這個民主基金會董事長這件事情我們也看在新聞這邊有執政黨的委員說\n1722763\t1734959\t如果接下來有辦了董事長之後,我們的方向,整個方向會改變。我不知道,我聽不太懂這個意思,那我也不知道說在擔心什麼。這個要問哪一個部分,問哪一個單位。\n1737086\t1756891\t我想這個部分民主基金會他是一個獨立運作的基金會那基金會在2月28日的時候的新聞稿已經有表示董事長出缺以後三個月必須要重新改選董事長目前正在協調要召開董事會的過程\n1757551\t1760533\t我相信在場都一樣吧,都是捍衛這塊土地上的自由民主,應該是這樣吧?對,我想這個基金會\n1785211\t1785911\t我請次長來說明比較清楚。\n1810777\t1819484\t委員好,現在基金會他們要找一個確定的時間,先開會,開董事會,那麼董事會也有按照章程去處理這個事情。謝謝。\n1834517\t1834898\t謝謝黃院長本期質詢到此謝謝\n","txt":"響鐘\n謝謝,謝謝院長。請一下我們的行政院陳院長。麻煩請陳院長備詢。黃委員午安,恭喜你當選立委。謝謝院長,院長平安。\n我聽說之前院長在擔任副總統的時候曾經到過臺東縣大武鄉的一個主教的神父西神父的墓園去追思過法是不是?我很喜歡臺東而且那裡有那個我們瑞士白冷會的神父們很多所以我很想念他們\n其實臺東是一塊多元的土地。\n這塊土地上其實除了原住民的朋友以外我們的同胞以外有很多是來自其實其他縣市來到台東這塊土地開墾的像是台南或是彰化雲林各個縣市都有像我的外省主婦也是早期來到後山來開墾那我想這麼多的人其實從我們的\n黃建賓 黃建賓 黃建賓\n所以我相信也是因為這樣造就台中人非常刻苦耐勞的精神那可能又是在這樣的環境好山好水然後跟原住民同胞一起生活相信相對的樂觀也非常的友善堅強我相信但是其實院長友善的背後其實含著很多的無奈我大概跟院長講一下台中曾經是被譽為被遺忘的城市\n臺中縣的土地面積是全國第三大,那人口大概是21萬。我們這個就是百分之一的人口住在十分之一的土地上。西部的朋友很羨慕我們,我們的生活空間很寬闊、很舒服。那其實也相對的是相對的發展落後跟不方便。\n過去臺東縣政府的臺東縣的人口的這個不管是人口增長率、自然增加率還有社會增加率在108年的時候調查是全國縣市排名第22也就是倒數第一名經過很多年的努力一直到了110年轉為正的2.02%那排名大幅提升是全國第5那在這個過程裡面其實臺東縣政府用了很多的力氣來發展屬於自己的產業\n那我想要問院長,在台東的改變裡面,你覺得中央給予台東什麼樣的協助?這是一個很好的問題,因為台東確實它是一個農業縣,所以在\n韓國瑜議員\n臺東縣政府前瞻計畫分到七十五億。\n八年民進黨執政75億這麼大的土地人口這麼大的土地這樣少的人口用這樣的分配其實不太公平特別是我們台東縣內族群多元做原住民、客家人、民漢還有新住民我們還要管理兩個離島綠島跟蘭嶼這樣的經費其實不夠的也希望院長能夠多多幫助台東\n發言委員,所以為什麼那個中央的交通建設包括雙軌還有電氣化還有南回的部分都放在台東然後剛才提到花東基金每年也有10億的預算鄉鎮公所也可以提出2億那這個部分現在執行率都達到了百分之九十幾那所以說只要是不管是公所也好或縣政府提出來的\n我們覺得可以的,我們就盡量來幫助,只要他執行力。當然當然,中央政府也會努力我們看到,可是臺東縣政府如果有更大的資源,他不用去走自己的路。當然。當然。當然。當然。當然。當然。當然。當然。當然。\n臺東負責\n臺東因為天然環境的關係,我們的交通不便,我們人口少,商業行為少,所以我們其實就從基礎的農業來發展。那這幾年來我們找到了一個可以代表臺東很重要的一個經濟產物,就是釋迦。臺東縣政府的豐田釋迦在2019年的時候產值已經達到了10億美元。\n是,那這個是我們從農業部裡面調到的資料這個是在民國110年的12月到113年的1月份那院長跟部長可以空這表格看到其實現在臺東的私家最主要的輸出的地點還是在我們中國大陸不管是他的產量或是他的產值部分那可以看得到那接下來我覺得要請教一下院長\n兩岸發生一個金門撞船的事件鬧得悲悲揚揚。我想請教院長,這個事項已經有一個很好的商業模式,那如果未來遇到類似這樣子會造成兩岸關係緊張的議題而中斷,我們如果沒有辦法銷往中國大陸,請問\n院長或部長,你要告訴我們農民我們要銷到什麼地方去。這個部分我想我們農業部有一個對策。我想跟委員說明,第一個部分就是我們絕對不會輕易的放棄任何一個市場,包括中國市場。第二個部分就是過往我們對於中國輸出的比較低\n韓國瑜\n謝謝部長。我相信農業部非常努力。不過我們還是看一下圖表。剛剛哪張圖表?上一張圖表。\n我們也很努力的想要開拓新的市場只要能夠賺錢農民絕對支持不過現實告訴我們最大的市場還是在中國大陸\n這個我想是應該嘛,剛才我們主委已經講得很清楚,我們希望\n臺東臺東\n我相信農業部也會盡力的幫我們農民來做外銷再做努力。那我們現在提到第二個問題是其實也是同樣這樣圖表上你可以看到在中國稻寨110年大概是9月的時候就是那個46980後面那個數字之後開始數量都停止甚至減少\n那是被中國禁止那時候對部長我就要講這件事情這件事情就是在我們的110年9月20號應該是9月20號那個時候因為中國用因為檢查出有假借可寵這個理由停止輸出對嘛應該是這個時候所以所有世家完全沒辦法進入嘛我跟部長分享一個故事我一個朋友當年因為看到世家產業好他撕掉北部的工作板箱然後青年板箱從事農業\n他那時候是騎著Ducati在巡產水。我前幾年看到他是騎著Go Go的在送外賣。為什麼會這樣其實上面已經告訴大家了。那我想要講的是我們還是要回到事情的本質。如果今天是假藉口什麼問題我們就來解決它。\n我相信部長也同意這件事情。甚至是一個影響因素,但是提高自己本身的本質才是外銷最重要的事情。所以台中縣政府也很努力的來尋求這個解決的方法。我們開始找了我們台中大學來解決怎麼樣讓我們對本屆各種的這個載存率能夠降低,然後提升我們的品質。\n所以在去年我們老縣長也率隊到大陸去來做這樣的說明跟談判。所以回來之後也積極的推展這個農業的這個產業外銷履歷。還有最重要的是我們甲介殼種宅種的清採的降低它的清採率。那當然因為這樣子獲得中國大陸再次的同意我們可以輸出農民看到的我們的果農看到的一線的升級。\n當然一開始的政策推動一定會有些缺失嘛,對吧?所以我們在,也是在童年我們在外銷的300多件的這個市價裡面確實也發現還有殘留大概10%的這個假借格寵。我們農業部也很認真的在童年到我們台東縣的17個包裝廠來做這個做一次的再一次的檢驗,它是沒有嚴重對吧?有點大嗎?\n我想跟委員說明一下就是藉口總的部分我們大概現在有一個系統性的一個輔導的方案從我們的整個的公國園本身的一個登錄跟他的一個輔導的系統特別是我們成立的一個鳳梨世家的一個輔導團隊然後這個輔導團隊裡面特別針對藉口總本身的清潔因為過去的清潔通常是比較沒有一個系統性的清潔等於說就是用噴槍噴一噴以後那個藉口總會\n拜訪國務委員\n部長,我了解。部長,我們後門是不是要約到有假借格寵?\n還是會有?陸陸續續還是會有?我們有沒有可能會為了這一層的沒有及格的包裝廠而影響其他九層合格的其中的包裝的產品?我要先跟委員說明這個從通常在國際規範裡面他如果被驗到他是被用被薰針就可以再進去的而不是直接退運這個是在包括在其他的國家因為那個薰針料寫起來就不會寫了\n沒有,他的訓練要看你的成熟度跟他的方法。所以我們現在就是在邊境三倍的把關,所以能夠攔檢一部分,但是我們不能夠確保說田間裡面的清潔能夠百分之百。我們會有一個系統性的輔導,希望說他把他的頻度降到最低。\n好,這樣我部長的說明非常的詳細那我今天其實也有一件事院長我要表達一件事情就是說現在當時台中縣政府發現甲介哥蟲的時候其實很想要來輔導他就像有人考試沒有及格我們會趕快找來嘛應該補考嘛對不對所以他就發文去我們的台中縣政府發文去我們的農業部那院長部長請看就是農業部給台中縣政府的公文\n只是他依據這個政府資訊公開法第18條第1項第7款規定為確保當事的權益所以請縣府盡洽輸出業者包裝廠了解及採輔導措施就是說你自己去問哪幾家我不知道你自己去問部長誰沒有要寫功課的舉手\n不過我想這件事情要跟委員特別說明就是當初中國同意我們的鳳梨思佳在出口的過程中它的檢疫的相關的規定並沒有正式通知我們那因為兩國的一個貿易的檢疫都是必須要有一個互相的智慧就是你必須要用什麼樣子的一個包裝而且中國它核准的包裝廠\n他也沒有提供說他是根據什麼樣的條件去核准的所以對我們農業部來講對房間署來講我們並不能夠很確定的中國核准包裝廠是基於什麼樣的一個條件所以我們回應的時候就是說我們不知道這樣子的一個包裝廠是哪一個\n有跟臺東縣政府公過嗎?我們也問過,問題是臺東縣政府說是根據他們所擬定的相關的一個輔導規範。那確實檢驗出藉口總則是事實,那臺東縣政府想要了解這幾家廠商有難度嗎?對啊,所以我們是從我們的邊境的檢疫的部分,然後通過我們的輔導團隊。部長,臺東縣政府只是想要知道哪幾家不及格,我們並沒有要公開它。對。\n然後縣長花了那麼多心思,無非就是希望世家這個產業能夠持續、永續的發展下去。所以台中縣政府苦尋無路,遭到本席。好,那現在這樣,本席也發文,在過年前趕快發文到農業部,拜託一下讓我們知道。結果我們的回應還是一樣,這個我讀的,我認識的資可能不是那麼多,就是後面那個紅線。\n議事長就是說,委員,你自己去一間一間查。我想我絕對不會講這種話。你叫我伯伯就好了。我絕對不會講這種話。因為我一向認為就是說,中央跟地方一定是共同合作去協助這個產業。部長,我們先回到這份公文,那這份公文的內容是這樣子嗎?同志的部分啊。部長,其實我們並沒有要\n去強調是誰的功勞防疫本來就是中央跟地方要共同合作我們的目的就只有一個希望我們好不容易建立起這個濾金的才能夠發展下去因為它影響的不只是果農還有很多的資產業者甚至是這些幫農的農民所以這個部分也要拜託我們部長未來如果是這樣我們可以共同合作臺中新聞絕對絕對絕對會配合\n主席\n我跟委員說明,其實我們現在農業部跟其實跟縣政府跟農委也好,其實都有非常好的一個溝通的管道。那有一個東西就是包括已經被驗出的這種包裝廠,因為他是屬於他個人的個人的資訊,我們沒辦法就正式的去公開,但是我們會透過輔導團隊去協助。對啦,就輔導這樣啦,輔導啦。我們是想說,如果部裡面願意來做,那當然是最好啊。台中縣政府其實你也知道他的人力,\n韓國瑜\n﹝廣告﹞\n臺灣是一個海洋的國家,它一定要向外去發展,這個大家都公示。所以要對外發展自己的品質要提升,這個也是我們努力的目標。也謝謝部長,也謝謝院長。接下來我們就談第二個長久以來一直困擾台中的問題,就是交通的議題。\n市長,你去台東的時候是坐車還是開車?我是坐火車,然後在台東去看不同的教堂的時候,我是當然是坐這個巴士。台東其實沿途都非常漂亮,從台九縣一路都非常漂亮,從太平洋到中古縣的風景都非常優美。可是台東其實也很危險,我們以前一個笑話就是台東縣常常在獨立,\n我印象很深刻戰爭的過程好像就是這麼樣子\n應該是臺九縣。對。\n臺九縣嘛齁,應該是跟部長說明這是臺九縣鹿野剛好拖寬的那一段。這個地方的拖寬造成民眾非常多的怨言。因為民眾其實不太了解就是說,那樓盒好大大,為什麼要再裝手啊?然後弄得這樣子,指示上不是很明確。\n當時的臺九花東景觀大道就是用景觀大道。當時的想法就是說臺九縣這麼漂亮,希望把這些綠化再把它弄得更好。\n他這個有得過得名,有評比是很優的。就類似臺11跟臺9,是要把它做漂亮一點。美化很重要,路還是拿來開的。部長,我其實真的代表陸地居民中的心聲。部長你們有跟在地的鄉親公所跟居民討論過嗎?有,他那個整條都有地方的討論,包括有一些地方要不要\n韓國瑜\n我們確實要確保臺東的人有一條安全回家的路,這個我們中央跟地方可以一起合作。不過這駕駛是我覺得他本來是要把它分隔讓他比較安全\n我是覺得這個這張好像不是設計錯誤啦我只是我個人的猜測這個是這個照片是我們東部執行長洪宗凱發的照片對我是說這個到底是駕駛的因素還是設計的因素那我實際上是能夠再檢討這件事情是是是\n我們台中12年,先前一位立委,我們前一位立委,最後12年都在交通委員會。那民進黨在這8年也在執政。那我們等了12年,其實我們等來什麼路?院長,我們看一下這張照片。我們前一年我們在這條路啦,關山、戰備道。院長有發現這條路該在什麼地方嗎?這個我不是很清楚。台九,也是。\n這條戰備跑道蓋在農田上,這些都是糧田,台東的糧倉就在中古地區,你把戰備跑道蓋在糧田上,我不知道是基於什麼樣的原因?我這個跟委員要報告一下好不好?\n這戰備道原本就是本來要修條路把拓寬為了交通方便那既然有這戰備道既然有道路的話但我們也想到講說這個道路的機場啊可以停機啊是不夠的關於西部地區但花東地區我們也找到但我們絕對不會想說為了要做一個戰備道讓飛行能夠起降而影響到其他的交通這都既有的往那拓寬\n國防安全我們絕對支持,因為守護國家安全是每一個人的責任可是我們為了要專門跑道把它蓋在糧田上這件事情我覺得很奇怪明明旁邊不是還有道路為什麼一定要跟農民爭農地我跟委員報告,目前委員提供這個圖我們以前所規劃跟地方政府協調過都沒有問題\n現在怎麼會影響到講說回去涼田,我要做一個查證以後再去跟我們做什麼。那個部長,這個下去衍生的問題很多欸。你站在跑道你是不是未來也有那個空白那個那個農機的一些限制,譬如說現在農田撒藥是用無人機,那這個會影響到?會嗎?敢沒?好,這個問題再來討論,我想要表達的是說\n如果戰爭都還沒爆發,就先爆發糧食危機。我想要問一問在場的每位長官,今天真的有打仗的話,你們是挨餓上戰場,你們是吃飽上戰場,還是挨餓上戰場吃子彈?糧食的問題同樣重要不是嗎?這是戰略無知吧?但是兩個一起重要,一樣重要。所以我們這個東西是不是用它來檢討本席堅決的要求?\n市長,我還是建議要求,我們旁邊其實\n國防安全我們絕對支持,但是是不是可以不要犧牲農民的權益,這個是本席的要求。\n委員長,其實臺東人要的很簡單,真的很簡單,就是一條平安、安全、快速回家的道路。那,我們為了國防安全,我們都會支持,但是也要還給臺東人用路的正義,還給臺東人一條平安、回家、快速的道路。所以我另外也堅持,我堅決的支持新建花東快速道路。全院長你知不支持這件事情?\n在這核心性研究當中。\n這個委員我先跟你簡單說明一下我們要開一條路一定要做可行性評估然後在需要的話還黃評然後細部規劃等等的會有一個質詢那現在的時程是在可行性研究這個階段那可行性研究對台東的話可能我們交通部都會給個可行性研究的相關的經費了解謝謝院長我現在院長會了這樣院長你都提到你520之後要離開行政團隊嗎\n那不過我相信不然院長在那裡都會繼續支持也協助我們臺東的發展就像院長我第一次聽到院長你到南興看我們習神父的精神一樣習神父在臺東人的心目中地位非常的崇高因為他是第一個到偏鄉來傳教而且是照顧臺東子弟的一位神父所以我相信院長也因為這樣的精神來照顧偏鄉的子弟我也謝謝院長\n那也謝謝我們兩位部長剛剛還有一點點的時間我想我再插播一下接下來可能那個問題會跟我們韓院長有點關係院長我待會可能會提到韓院長不好意思那個院長我最近在新聞上看到廢廢樣的就是這個民主基金會董事長這件事情我們也看在新聞這邊有執政黨的委員說\n如果接下來有辦了董事長之後,我們的方向,整個方向會改變。我不知道,我聽不太懂這個意思,那我也不知道說在擔心什麼。這個要問哪一個部分,問哪一個單位。\n我想這個部分民主基金會他是一個獨立運作的基金會那基金會在2月28日的時候的新聞稿已經有表示董事長出缺以後三個月必須要重新改選董事長目前正在協調要召開董事會的過程\n我相信在場都一樣吧,都是捍衛這塊土地上的自由民主,應該是這樣吧?對,我想這個基金會\n我請次長來說明比較清楚。\n委員好,現在基金會他們要找一個確定的時間,先開會,開董事會,那麼董事會也有按照章程去處理這個事情。謝謝。\n謝謝黃院長本期質詢到此謝謝\n","vtt":"WEBVTT\n\n00:25.209 --> 00:31.192\n謝謝,謝謝院長。請一下我們的行政院陳院長。麻煩請陳院長備詢。黃委員午安,恭喜你當選立委。謝謝院長,院長平安。\n\n00:44.404 --> 01:05.743\n我聽說之前院長在擔任副總統的時候曾經到過臺東縣大武鄉的一個主教的神父西神父的墓園去追思過法是不是?我很喜歡臺東而且那裡有那個我們瑞士白冷會的神父們很多所以我很想念他們\n\n01:06.778 --> 01:07.538\n其實臺東是一塊多元的土地。\n\n01:34.692 --> 01:57.223\n這塊土地上其實除了原住民的朋友以外我們的同胞以外有很多是來自其實其他縣市來到台東這塊土地開墾的像是台南或是彰化雲林各個縣市都有像我的外省主婦也是早期來到後山來開墾那我想這麼多的人其實從我們的\n\n01:58.203 --> 01:58.924\n黃建賓黃建賓黃建賓\n\n02:15.299 --> 02:39.857\n所以我相信也是因為這樣造就台中人非常刻苦耐勞的精神那可能又是在這樣的環境好山好水然後跟原住民同胞一起生活相信相對的樂觀也非常的友善堅強我相信但是其實院長友善的背後其實含著很多的無奈我大概跟院長講一下台中曾經是被譽為被遺忘的城市\n\n02:44.285 --> 03:02.521\n臺中縣的土地面積是全國第三大,那人口大概是21萬。我們這個就是百分之一的人口住在十分之一的土地上。西部的朋友很羨慕我們,我們的生活空間很寬闊、很舒服。那其實也相對的是相對的發展落後跟不方便。\n\n03:05.138 --> 03:32.458\n過去臺東縣政府的臺東縣的人口的這個不管是人口增長率、自然增加率還有社會增加率在108年的時候調查是全國縣市排名第22也就是倒數第一名經過很多年的努力一直到了110年轉為正的2.02%那排名大幅提升是全國第5那在這個過程裡面其實臺東縣政府用了很多的力氣來發展屬於自己的產業\n\n03:35.543 --> 03:49.803\n那我想要問院長,在台東的改變裡面,你覺得中央給予台東什麼樣的協助?這是一個很好的問題,因為台東確實它是一個農業縣,所以在\n\n03:50.696 --> 03:50.716\n韓國瑜議員\n\n04:10.043 --> 04:10.743\n臺東縣政府前瞻計畫分到七十五億。\n\n04:29.181 --> 04:50.494\n八年民進黨執政75億這麼大的土地人口這麼大的土地這樣少的人口用這樣的分配其實不太公平特別是我們台東縣內族群多元做原住民、客家人、民漢還有新住民我們還要管理兩個離島綠島跟蘭嶼這樣的經費其實不夠的也希望院長能夠多多幫助台東\n\n04:53.059 --> 05:14.638\n發言委員,所以為什麼那個中央的交通建設包括雙軌還有電氣化還有南回的部分都放在台東然後剛才提到花東基金每年也有10億的預算鄉鎮公所也可以提出2億那這個部分現在執行率都達到了百分之九十幾那所以說只要是不管是公所也好或縣政府提出來的\n\n05:16.219 --> 05:26.846\n我們覺得可以的,我們就盡量來幫助,只要他執行力。當然當然,中央政府也會努力我們看到,可是臺東縣政府如果有更大的資源,他不用去走自己的路。當然。當然。當然。當然。當然。當然。當然。當然。當然。\n\n05:40.492 --> 05:40.512\n臺東負責\n\n06:04.395 --> 06:21.906\n臺東因為天然環境的關係,我們的交通不便,我們人口少,商業行為少,所以我們其實就從基礎的農業來發展。那這幾年來我們找到了一個可以代表臺東很重要的一個經濟產物,就是釋迦。臺東縣政府的豐田釋迦在2019年的時候產值已經達到了10億美元。\n\n06:25.552 --> 06:53.472\n是,那這個是我們從農業部裡面調到的資料這個是在民國110年的12月到113年的1月份那院長跟部長可以空這表格看到其實現在臺東的私家最主要的輸出的地點還是在我們中國大陸不管是他的產量或是他的產值部分那可以看得到那接下來我覺得要請教一下院長\n\n06:56.171 --> 07:17.606\n兩岸發生一個金門撞船的事件鬧得悲悲揚揚。我想請教院長,這個事項已經有一個很好的商業模式,那如果未來遇到類似這樣子會造成兩岸關係緊張的議題而中斷,我們如果沒有辦法銷往中國大陸,請問\n\n07:19.594 --> 07:38.451\n院長或部長,你要告訴我們農民我們要銷到什麼地方去。這個部分我想我們農業部有一個對策。我想跟委員說明,第一個部分就是我們絕對不會輕易的放棄任何一個市場,包括中國市場。第二個部分就是過往我們對於中國輸出的比較低\n\n07:40.779 --> 07:40.799\n韓國瑜\n\n07:57.534 --> 07:58.835\n謝謝部長。我相信農業部非常努力。不過我們還是看一下圖表。剛剛哪張圖表?上一張圖表。\n\n08:27.807 --> 08:36.929\n我們也很努力的想要開拓新的市場只要能夠賺錢農民絕對支持不過現實告訴我們最大的市場還是在中國大陸\n\n08:38.288 --> 08:40.909\n這個我想是應該嘛,剛才我們主委已經講得很清楚,我們希望\n\n09:29.344 --> 09:50.034\n我相信農業部也會盡力的幫我們農民來做外銷再做努力。那我們現在提到第二個問題是其實也是同樣這樣圖表上你可以看到在中國稻寨110年大概是9月的時候就是那個46980後面那個數字之後開始數量都停止甚至減少\n\n09:50.834 --> 10:19.891\n那是被中國禁止那時候對部長我就要講這件事情這件事情就是在我們的110年9月20號應該是9月20號那個時候因為中國用因為檢查出有假借可寵這個理由停止輸出對嘛應該是這個時候所以所有世家完全沒辦法進入嘛我跟部長分享一個故事我一個朋友當年因為看到世家產業好他撕掉北部的工作板箱然後青年板箱從事農業\n\n10:20.882 --> 10:35.436\n他那時候是騎著Ducati在巡產水。我前幾年看到他是騎著GoGo的在送外賣。為什麼會這樣其實上面已經告訴大家了。那我想要講的是我們還是要回到事情的本質。如果今天是假藉口什麼問題我們就來解決它。\n\n10:37.042 --> 10:56.920\n我相信部長也同意這件事情。甚至是一個影響因素,但是提高自己本身的本質才是外銷最重要的事情。所以台中縣政府也很努力的來尋求這個解決的方法。我們開始找了我們台中大學來解決怎麼樣讓我們對本屆各種的這個載存率能夠降低,然後提升我們的品質。\n\n10:57.941 --> 11:25.206\n所以在去年我們老縣長也率隊到大陸去來做這樣的說明跟談判。所以回來之後也積極的推展這個農業的這個產業外銷履歷。還有最重要的是我們甲介殼種宅種的清採的降低它的清採率。那當然因為這樣子獲得中國大陸再次的同意我們可以輸出農民看到的我們的果農看到的一線的升級。\n\n11:27.859 --> 11:54.528\n當然一開始的政策推動一定會有些缺失嘛,對吧?所以我們在,也是在童年我們在外銷的300多件的這個市價裡面確實也發現還有殘留大概10%的這個假借格寵。我們農業部也很認真的在童年到我們台東縣的17個包裝廠來做這個做一次的再一次的檢驗,它是沒有嚴重對吧?有點大嗎?\n\n11:56.194 --> 12:22.515\n我想跟委員說明一下就是藉口總的部分我們大概現在有一個系統性的一個輔導的方案從我們的整個的公國園本身的一個登錄跟他的一個輔導的系統特別是我們成立的一個鳳梨世家的一個輔導團隊然後這個輔導團隊裡面特別針對藉口總本身的清潔因為過去的清潔通常是比較沒有一個系統性的清潔等於說就是用噴槍噴一噴以後那個藉口總會\n\n12:24.036 --> 12:24.356\n拜訪國務委員\n\n12:42.301 --> 12:43.042\n部長,我了解。部長,我們後門是不是要約到有假借格寵?\n\n13:01.527 --> 13:27.402\n還是會有?陸陸續續還是會有?我們有沒有可能會為了這一層的沒有及格的包裝廠而影響其他九層合格的其中的包裝的產品?我要先跟委員說明這個從通常在國際規範裡面他如果被驗到他是被用被薰針就可以再進去的而不是直接退運這個是在包括在其他的國家因為那個薰針料寫起來就不會寫了\n\n13:28.843 --> 13:47.314\n沒有,他的訓練要看你的成熟度跟他的方法。所以我們現在就是在邊境三倍的把關,所以能夠攔檢一部分,但是我們不能夠確保說田間裡面的清潔能夠百分之百。我們會有一個系統性的輔導,希望說他把他的頻度降到最低。\n\n13:47.754 --> 14:16.065\n好,這樣我部長的說明非常的詳細那我今天其實也有一件事院長我要表達一件事情就是說現在當時台中縣政府發現甲介哥蟲的時候其實很想要來輔導他就像有人考試沒有及格我們會趕快找來嘛應該補考嘛對不對所以他就發文去我們的台中縣政府發文去我們的農業部那院長部長請看就是農業部給台中縣政府的公文\n\n14:17.176 --> 14:41.383\n只是他依據這個政府資訊公開法第18條第1項第7款規定為確保當事的權益所以請縣府盡洽輸出業者包裝廠了解及採輔導措施就是說你自己去問哪幾家我不知道你自己去問部長誰沒有要寫功課的舉手\n\n14:42.947 --> 15:08.874\n不過我想這件事情要跟委員特別說明就是當初中國同意我們的鳳梨思佳在出口的過程中它的檢疫的相關的規定並沒有正式通知我們那因為兩國的一個貿易的檢疫都是必須要有一個互相的智慧就是你必須要用什麼樣子的一個包裝而且中國它核准的包裝廠\n\n15:10.094 --> 15:29.413\n他也沒有提供說他是根據什麼樣的條件去核准的所以對我們農業部來講對房間署來講我們並不能夠很確定的中國核准包裝廠是基於什麼樣的一個條件所以我們回應的時候就是說我們不知道這樣子的一個包裝廠是哪一個\n\n15:30.040 --> 15:58.240\n有跟臺東縣政府公過嗎?我們也問過,問題是臺東縣政府說是根據他們所擬定的相關的一個輔導規範。那確實檢驗出藉口總則是事實,那臺東縣政府想要了解這幾家廠商有難度嗎?對啊,所以我們是從我們的邊境的檢疫的部分,然後通過我們的輔導團隊。部長,臺東縣政府只是想要知道哪幾家不及格,我們並沒有要公開它。對。\n\n15:59.537 --> 16:25.642\n然後縣長花了那麼多心思,無非就是希望世家這個產業能夠持續、永續的發展下去。所以台中縣政府苦尋無路,遭到本席。好,那現在這樣,本席也發文,在過年前趕快發文到農業部,拜託一下讓我們知道。結果我們的回應還是一樣,這個我讀的,我認識的資可能不是那麼多,就是後面那個紅線。\n\n16:27.944 --> 16:52.395\n議事長就是說,委員,你自己去一間一間查。我想我絕對不會講這種話。你叫我伯伯就好了。我絕對不會講這種話。因為我一向認為就是說,中央跟地方一定是共同合作去協助這個產業。部長,我們先回到這份公文,那這份公文的內容是這樣子嗎?同志的部分啊。部長,其實我們並沒有要\n\n16:53.976 --> 17:19.583\n去強調是誰的功勞防疫本來就是中央跟地方要共同合作我們的目的就只有一個希望我們好不容易建立起這個濾金的才能夠發展下去因為它影響的不只是果農還有很多的資產業者甚至是這些幫農的農民所以這個部分也要拜託我們部長未來如果是這樣我們可以共同合作臺中新聞絕對絕對絕對會配合\n\n17:30.083 --> 17:30.143\n主席\n\n17:45.828 --> 18:11.482\n我跟委員說明,其實我們現在農業部跟其實跟縣政府跟農委也好,其實都有非常好的一個溝通的管道。那有一個東西就是包括已經被驗出的這種包裝廠,因為他是屬於他個人的個人的資訊,我們沒辦法就正式的去公開,但是我們會透過輔導團隊去協助。對啦,就輔導這樣啦,輔導啦。我們是想說,如果部裡面願意來做,那當然是最好啊。台中縣政府其實你也知道他的人力,\n\n18:12.282 --> 18:12.302\n韓國瑜\n\n18:30.114 --> 18:30.134\n﹝廣告﹞\n\n18:49.195 --> 19:07.307\n臺灣是一個海洋的國家,它一定要向外去發展,這個大家都公示。所以要對外發展自己的品質要提升,這個也是我們努力的目標。也謝謝部長,也謝謝院長。接下來我們就談第二個長久以來一直困擾台中的問題,就是交通的議題。\n\n19:10.453 --> 19:37.107\n市長,你去台東的時候是坐車還是開車?我是坐火車,然後在台東去看不同的教堂的時候,我是當然是坐這個巴士。台東其實沿途都非常漂亮,從台九縣一路都非常漂亮,從太平洋到中古縣的風景都非常優美。可是台東其實也很危險,我們以前一個笑話就是台東縣常常在獨立,\n\n19:38.319 --> 19:39.980\n我印象很深刻戰爭的過程好像就是這麼樣子\n\n20:07.003 --> 20:07.183\n應該是臺九縣。對。\n\n20:34.548 --> 20:51.303\n臺九縣嘛齁,應該是跟部長說明這是臺九縣鹿野剛好拖寬的那一段。這個地方的拖寬造成民眾非常多的怨言。因為民眾其實不太了解就是說,那樓盒好大大,為什麼要再裝手啊?然後弄得這樣子,指示上不是很明確。\n\n20:52.725 --> 20:56.987\n當時的臺九花東景觀大道就是用景觀大道。當時的想法就是說臺九縣這麼漂亮,希望把這些綠化再把它弄得更好。\n\n21:15.555 --> 21:41.654\n他這個有得過得名,有評比是很優的。就類似臺11跟臺9,是要把它做漂亮一點。美化很重要,路還是拿來開的。部長,我其實真的代表陸地居民中的心聲。部長你們有跟在地的鄉親公所跟居民討論過嗎?有,他那個整條都有地方的討論,包括有一些地方要不要\n\n21:42.635 --> 21:42.655\n韓國瑜\n\n22:01.824 --> 22:10.726\n我們確實要確保臺東的人有一條安全回家的路,這個我們中央跟地方可以一起合作。不過這駕駛是我覺得他本來是要把它分隔讓他比較安全\n\n22:25.390 --> 22:41.109\n我是覺得這個這張好像不是設計錯誤啦我只是我個人的猜測這個是這個照片是我們東部執行長洪宗凱發的照片對我是說這個到底是駕駛的因素還是設計的因素那我實際上是能夠再檢討這件事情是是是\n\n22:47.779 --> 23:15.375\n我們台中12年,先前一位立委,我們前一位立委,最後12年都在交通委員會。那民進黨在這8年也在執政。那我們等了12年,其實我們等來什麼路?院長,我們看一下這張照片。我們前一年我們在這條路啦,關山、戰備道。院長有發現這條路該在什麼地方嗎?這個我不是很清楚。台九,也是。\n\n23:23.859 --> 23:44.812\n這條戰備跑道蓋在農田上,這些都是糧田,台東的糧倉就在中古地區,你把戰備跑道蓋在糧田上,我不知道是基於什麼樣的原因?我這個跟委員要報告一下好不好?\n\n23:45.543 --> 24:11.526\n這戰備道原本就是本來要修條路把拓寬為了交通方便那既然有這戰備道既然有道路的話但我們也想到講說這個道路的機場啊可以停機啊是不夠的關於西部地區但花東地區我們也找到但我們絕對不會想說為了要做一個戰備道讓飛行能夠起降而影響到其他的交通這都既有的往那拓寬\n\n24:16.553 --> 24:41.207\n國防安全我們絕對支持,因為守護國家安全是每一個人的責任可是我們為了要專門跑道把它蓋在糧田上這件事情我覺得很奇怪明明旁邊不是還有道路為什麼一定要跟農民爭農地我跟委員報告,目前委員提供這個圖我們以前所規劃跟地方政府協調過都沒有問題\n\n24:42.150 --> 25:11.123\n現在怎麼會影響到講說回去涼田,我要做一個查證以後再去跟我們做什麼。那個部長,這個下去衍生的問題很多欸。你站在跑道你是不是未來也有那個空白那個那個農機的一些限制,譬如說現在農田撒藥是用無人機,那這個會影響到?會嗎?敢沒?好,這個問題再來討論,我想要表達的是說\n\n25:13.612 --> 25:40.564\n如果戰爭都還沒爆發,就先爆發糧食危機。我想要問一問在場的每位長官,今天真的有打仗的話,你們是挨餓上戰場,你們是吃飽上戰場,還是挨餓上戰場吃子彈?糧食的問題同樣重要不是嗎?這是戰略無知吧?但是兩個一起重要,一樣重要。所以我們這個東西是不是用它來檢討本席堅決的要求?\n\n25:43.112 --> 25:44.693\n市長,我還是建議要求,我們旁邊其實\n\n26:12.338 --> 26:18.580\n國防安全我們絕對支持,但是是不是可以不要犧牲農民的權益,這個是本席的要求。\n\n26:41.242 --> 27:08.305\n委員長,其實臺東人要的很簡單,真的很簡單,就是一條平安、安全、快速回家的道路。那,我們為了國防安全,我們都會支持,但是也要還給臺東人用路的正義,還給臺東人一條平安、回家、快速的道路。所以我另外也堅持,我堅決的支持新建花東快速道路。全院長你知不支持這件事情?\n\n27:10.273 --> 27:11.319\n在這核心性研究當中。\n\n27:13.735 --> 27:40.548\n這個委員我先跟你簡單說明一下我們要開一條路一定要做可行性評估然後在需要的話還黃評然後細部規劃等等的會有一個質詢那現在的時程是在可行性研究這個階段那可行性研究對台東的話可能我們交通部都會給個可行性研究的相關的經費了解謝謝院長我現在院長會了這樣院長你都提到你520之後要離開行政團隊嗎\n\n27:42.196 --> 28:10.390\n那不過我相信不然院長在那裡都會繼續支持也協助我們臺東的發展就像院長我第一次聽到院長你到南興看我們習神父的精神一樣習神父在臺東人的心目中地位非常的崇高因為他是第一個到偏鄉來傳教而且是照顧臺東子弟的一位神父所以我相信院長也因為這樣的精神來照顧偏鄉的子弟我也謝謝院長\n\n28:12.881 --> 28:40.609\n那也謝謝我們兩位部長剛剛還有一點點的時間我想我再插播一下接下來可能那個問題會跟我們韓院長有點關係院長我待會可能會提到韓院長不好意思那個院長我最近在新聞上看到廢廢樣的就是這個民主基金會董事長這件事情我們也看在新聞這邊有執政黨的委員說\n\n28:42.763 --> 28:54.959\n如果接下來有辦了董事長之後,我們的方向,整個方向會改變。我不知道,我聽不太懂這個意思,那我也不知道說在擔心什麼。這個要問哪一個部分,問哪一個單位。\n\n28:57.086 --> 29:16.891\n我想這個部分民主基金會他是一個獨立運作的基金會那基金會在2月28日的時候的新聞稿已經有表示董事長出缺以後三個月必須要重新改選董事長目前正在協調要召開董事會的過程\n\n29:17.551 --> 29:20.533\n我相信在場都一樣吧,都是捍衛這塊土地上的自由民主,應該是這樣吧?對,我想這個基金會\n\n29:45.211 --> 29:45.911\n我請次長來說明比較清楚。\n\n30:10.777 --> 30:19.484\n委員好,現在基金會他們要找一個確定的時間,先開會,開董事會,那麼董事會也有按照章程去處理這個事情。謝謝。\n\n30:34.517 --> 30:34.898\n謝謝黃院長本期質詢到此謝謝\n\n","segments":[{"start":0.009,"end":0.486,"text":"響鐘"},{"start":25.209,"end":31.192,"text":"謝謝,謝謝院長。請一下我們的行政院陳院長。麻煩請陳院長備詢。黃委員午安,恭喜你當選立委。謝謝院長,院長平安。"},{"start":44.404,"end":65.743,"text":"我聽說之前院長在擔任副總統的時候曾經到過臺東縣大武鄉的一個主教的神父西神父的墓園去追思過法是不是?我很喜歡臺東而且那裡有那個我們瑞士白冷會的神父們很多所以我很想念他們"},{"start":66.778,"end":67.538,"text":"其實臺東是一塊多元的土地。"},{"start":94.692,"end":117.223,"text":"這塊土地上其實除了原住民的朋友以外我們的同胞以外有很多是來自其實其他縣市來到台東這塊土地開墾的像是台南或是彰化雲林各個縣市都有像我的外省主婦也是早期來到後山來開墾那我想這麼多的人其實從我們的"},{"start":118.203,"end":118.924,"text":"黃建賓 黃建賓 黃建賓"},{"start":135.299,"end":159.857,"text":"所以我相信也是因為這樣造就台中人非常刻苦耐勞的精神那可能又是在這樣的環境好山好水然後跟原住民同胞一起生活相信相對的樂觀也非常的友善堅強我相信但是其實院長友善的背後其實含著很多的無奈我大概跟院長講一下台中曾經是被譽為被遺忘的城市"},{"start":164.285,"end":182.521,"text":"臺中縣的土地面積是全國第三大,那人口大概是21萬。我們這個就是百分之一的人口住在十分之一的土地上。西部的朋友很羨慕我們,我們的生活空間很寬闊、很舒服。那其實也相對的是相對的發展落後跟不方便。"},{"start":185.138,"end":212.458,"text":"過去臺東縣政府的臺東縣的人口的這個不管是人口增長率、自然增加率還有社會增加率在108年的時候調查是全國縣市排名第22也就是倒數第一名經過很多年的努力一直到了110年轉為正的2.02%那排名大幅提升是全國第5那在這個過程裡面其實臺東縣政府用了很多的力氣來發展屬於自己的產業"},{"start":215.543,"end":229.803,"text":"那我想要問院長,在台東的改變裡面,你覺得中央給予台東什麼樣的協助?這是一個很好的問題,因為台東確實它是一個農業縣,所以在"},{"start":230.696,"end":230.716,"text":"韓國瑜議員"},{"start":250.043,"end":250.743,"text":"臺東縣政府前瞻計畫分到七十五億。"},{"start":269.181,"end":290.494,"text":"八年民進黨執政75億這麼大的土地人口這麼大的土地這樣少的人口用這樣的分配其實不太公平特別是我們台東縣內族群多元做原住民、客家人、民漢還有新住民我們還要管理兩個離島綠島跟蘭嶼這樣的經費其實不夠的也希望院長能夠多多幫助台東"},{"start":293.059,"end":314.638,"text":"發言委員,所以為什麼那個中央的交通建設包括雙軌還有電氣化還有南回的部分都放在台東然後剛才提到花東基金每年也有10億的預算鄉鎮公所也可以提出2億那這個部分現在執行率都達到了百分之九十幾那所以說只要是不管是公所也好或縣政府提出來的"},{"start":316.219,"end":326.846,"text":"我們覺得可以的,我們就盡量來幫助,只要他執行力。當然當然,中央政府也會努力我們看到,可是臺東縣政府如果有更大的資源,他不用去走自己的路。當然。當然。當然。當然。當然。當然。當然。當然。當然。"},{"start":340.492,"end":340.512,"text":"臺東負責"},{"start":364.395,"end":381.906,"text":"臺東因為天然環境的關係,我們的交通不便,我們人口少,商業行為少,所以我們其實就從基礎的農業來發展。那這幾年來我們找到了一個可以代表臺東很重要的一個經濟產物,就是釋迦。臺東縣政府的豐田釋迦在2019年的時候產值已經達到了10億美元。"},{"start":385.552,"end":413.472,"text":"是,那這個是我們從農業部裡面調到的資料這個是在民國110年的12月到113年的1月份那院長跟部長可以空這表格看到其實現在臺東的私家最主要的輸出的地點還是在我們中國大陸不管是他的產量或是他的產值部分那可以看得到那接下來我覺得要請教一下院長"},{"start":416.171,"end":437.606,"text":"兩岸發生一個金門撞船的事件鬧得悲悲揚揚。我想請教院長,這個事項已經有一個很好的商業模式,那如果未來遇到類似這樣子會造成兩岸關係緊張的議題而中斷,我們如果沒有辦法銷往中國大陸,請問"},{"start":439.594,"end":458.451,"text":"院長或部長,你要告訴我們農民我們要銷到什麼地方去。這個部分我想我們農業部有一個對策。我想跟委員說明,第一個部分就是我們絕對不會輕易的放棄任何一個市場,包括中國市場。第二個部分就是過往我們對於中國輸出的比較低"},{"start":460.779,"end":460.799,"text":"韓國瑜"},{"start":477.534,"end":478.835,"text":"謝謝部長。我相信農業部非常努力。不過我們還是看一下圖表。剛剛哪張圖表?上一張圖表。"},{"start":507.807,"end":516.929,"text":"我們也很努力的想要開拓新的市場只要能夠賺錢農民絕對支持不過現實告訴我們最大的市場還是在中國大陸"},{"start":518.288,"end":520.909,"text":"這個我想是應該嘛,剛才我們主委已經講得很清楚,我們希望"},{"start":546.8,"end":568.183,"text":"臺東臺東"},{"start":569.344,"end":590.034,"text":"我相信農業部也會盡力的幫我們農民來做外銷再做努力。那我們現在提到第二個問題是其實也是同樣這樣圖表上你可以看到在中國稻寨110年大概是9月的時候就是那個46980後面那個數字之後開始數量都停止甚至減少"},{"start":590.834,"end":619.891,"text":"那是被中國禁止那時候對部長我就要講這件事情這件事情就是在我們的110年9月20號應該是9月20號那個時候因為中國用因為檢查出有假借可寵這個理由停止輸出對嘛應該是這個時候所以所有世家完全沒辦法進入嘛我跟部長分享一個故事我一個朋友當年因為看到世家產業好他撕掉北部的工作板箱然後青年板箱從事農業"},{"start":620.882,"end":635.436,"text":"他那時候是騎著Ducati在巡產水。我前幾年看到他是騎著Go Go的在送外賣。為什麼會這樣其實上面已經告訴大家了。那我想要講的是我們還是要回到事情的本質。如果今天是假藉口什麼問題我們就來解決它。"},{"start":637.042,"end":656.92,"text":"我相信部長也同意這件事情。甚至是一個影響因素,但是提高自己本身的本質才是外銷最重要的事情。所以台中縣政府也很努力的來尋求這個解決的方法。我們開始找了我們台中大學來解決怎麼樣讓我們對本屆各種的這個載存率能夠降低,然後提升我們的品質。"},{"start":657.941,"end":685.206,"text":"所以在去年我們老縣長也率隊到大陸去來做這樣的說明跟談判。所以回來之後也積極的推展這個農業的這個產業外銷履歷。還有最重要的是我們甲介殼種宅種的清採的降低它的清採率。那當然因為這樣子獲得中國大陸再次的同意我們可以輸出農民看到的我們的果農看到的一線的升級。"},{"start":687.859,"end":714.528,"text":"當然一開始的政策推動一定會有些缺失嘛,對吧?所以我們在,也是在童年我們在外銷的300多件的這個市價裡面確實也發現還有殘留大概10%的這個假借格寵。我們農業部也很認真的在童年到我們台東縣的17個包裝廠來做這個做一次的再一次的檢驗,它是沒有嚴重對吧?有點大嗎?"},{"start":716.194,"end":742.515,"text":"我想跟委員說明一下就是藉口總的部分我們大概現在有一個系統性的一個輔導的方案從我們的整個的公國園本身的一個登錄跟他的一個輔導的系統特別是我們成立的一個鳳梨世家的一個輔導團隊然後這個輔導團隊裡面特別針對藉口總本身的清潔因為過去的清潔通常是比較沒有一個系統性的清潔等於說就是用噴槍噴一噴以後那個藉口總會"},{"start":744.036,"end":744.356,"text":"拜訪國務委員"},{"start":762.301,"end":763.042,"text":"部長,我了解。部長,我們後門是不是要約到有假借格寵?"},{"start":781.527,"end":807.402,"text":"還是會有?陸陸續續還是會有?我們有沒有可能會為了這一層的沒有及格的包裝廠而影響其他九層合格的其中的包裝的產品?我要先跟委員說明這個從通常在國際規範裡面他如果被驗到他是被用被薰針就可以再進去的而不是直接退運這個是在包括在其他的國家因為那個薰針料寫起來就不會寫了"},{"start":808.843,"end":827.314,"text":"沒有,他的訓練要看你的成熟度跟他的方法。所以我們現在就是在邊境三倍的把關,所以能夠攔檢一部分,但是我們不能夠確保說田間裡面的清潔能夠百分之百。我們會有一個系統性的輔導,希望說他把他的頻度降到最低。"},{"start":827.754,"end":856.065,"text":"好,這樣我部長的說明非常的詳細那我今天其實也有一件事院長我要表達一件事情就是說現在當時台中縣政府發現甲介哥蟲的時候其實很想要來輔導他就像有人考試沒有及格我們會趕快找來嘛應該補考嘛對不對所以他就發文去我們的台中縣政府發文去我們的農業部那院長部長請看就是農業部給台中縣政府的公文"},{"start":857.176,"end":881.383,"text":"只是他依據這個政府資訊公開法第18條第1項第7款規定為確保當事的權益所以請縣府盡洽輸出業者包裝廠了解及採輔導措施就是說你自己去問哪幾家我不知道你自己去問部長誰沒有要寫功課的舉手"},{"start":882.947,"end":908.874,"text":"不過我想這件事情要跟委員特別說明就是當初中國同意我們的鳳梨思佳在出口的過程中它的檢疫的相關的規定並沒有正式通知我們那因為兩國的一個貿易的檢疫都是必須要有一個互相的智慧就是你必須要用什麼樣子的一個包裝而且中國它核准的包裝廠"},{"start":910.094,"end":929.413,"text":"他也沒有提供說他是根據什麼樣的條件去核准的所以對我們農業部來講對房間署來講我們並不能夠很確定的中國核准包裝廠是基於什麼樣的一個條件所以我們回應的時候就是說我們不知道這樣子的一個包裝廠是哪一個"},{"start":930.04,"end":958.24,"text":"有跟臺東縣政府公過嗎?我們也問過,問題是臺東縣政府說是根據他們所擬定的相關的一個輔導規範。那確實檢驗出藉口總則是事實,那臺東縣政府想要了解這幾家廠商有難度嗎?對啊,所以我們是從我們的邊境的檢疫的部分,然後通過我們的輔導團隊。部長,臺東縣政府只是想要知道哪幾家不及格,我們並沒有要公開它。對。"},{"start":959.537,"end":985.642,"text":"然後縣長花了那麼多心思,無非就是希望世家這個產業能夠持續、永續的發展下去。所以台中縣政府苦尋無路,遭到本席。好,那現在這樣,本席也發文,在過年前趕快發文到農業部,拜託一下讓我們知道。結果我們的回應還是一樣,這個我讀的,我認識的資可能不是那麼多,就是後面那個紅線。"},{"start":987.944,"end":1012.395,"text":"議事長就是說,委員,你自己去一間一間查。我想我絕對不會講這種話。你叫我伯伯就好了。我絕對不會講這種話。因為我一向認為就是說,中央跟地方一定是共同合作去協助這個產業。部長,我們先回到這份公文,那這份公文的內容是這樣子嗎?同志的部分啊。部長,其實我們並沒有要"},{"start":1013.976,"end":1039.583,"text":"去強調是誰的功勞防疫本來就是中央跟地方要共同合作我們的目的就只有一個希望我們好不容易建立起這個濾金的才能夠發展下去因為它影響的不只是果農還有很多的資產業者甚至是這些幫農的農民所以這個部分也要拜託我們部長未來如果是這樣我們可以共同合作臺中新聞絕對絕對絕對會配合"},{"start":1050.083,"end":1050.143,"text":"主席"},{"start":1065.828,"end":1091.482,"text":"我跟委員說明,其實我們現在農業部跟其實跟縣政府跟農委也好,其實都有非常好的一個溝通的管道。那有一個東西就是包括已經被驗出的這種包裝廠,因為他是屬於他個人的個人的資訊,我們沒辦法就正式的去公開,但是我們會透過輔導團隊去協助。對啦,就輔導這樣啦,輔導啦。我們是想說,如果部裡面願意來做,那當然是最好啊。台中縣政府其實你也知道他的人力,"},{"start":1092.282,"end":1092.302,"text":"韓國瑜"},{"start":1110.114,"end":1110.134,"text":" ﹝廣告﹞"},{"start":1129.195,"end":1147.307,"text":"臺灣是一個海洋的國家,它一定要向外去發展,這個大家都公示。所以要對外發展自己的品質要提升,這個也是我們努力的目標。也謝謝部長,也謝謝院長。接下來我們就談第二個長久以來一直困擾台中的問題,就是交通的議題。"},{"start":1150.453,"end":1177.107,"text":"市長,你去台東的時候是坐車還是開車?我是坐火車,然後在台東去看不同的教堂的時候,我是當然是坐這個巴士。台東其實沿途都非常漂亮,從台九縣一路都非常漂亮,從太平洋到中古縣的風景都非常優美。可是台東其實也很危險,我們以前一個笑話就是台東縣常常在獨立,"},{"start":1178.319,"end":1179.98,"text":"我印象很深刻戰爭的過程好像就是這麼樣子"},{"start":1207.003,"end":1207.183,"text":"應該是臺九縣。對。"},{"start":1234.548,"end":1251.303,"text":"臺九縣嘛齁,應該是跟部長說明這是臺九縣鹿野剛好拖寬的那一段。這個地方的拖寬造成民眾非常多的怨言。因為民眾其實不太了解就是說,那樓盒好大大,為什麼要再裝手啊?然後弄得這樣子,指示上不是很明確。"},{"start":1252.725,"end":1256.987,"text":"當時的臺九花東景觀大道就是用景觀大道。當時的想法就是說臺九縣這麼漂亮,希望把這些綠化再把它弄得更好。"},{"start":1275.555,"end":1301.654,"text":"他這個有得過得名,有評比是很優的。就類似臺11跟臺9,是要把它做漂亮一點。美化很重要,路還是拿來開的。部長,我其實真的代表陸地居民中的心聲。部長你們有跟在地的鄉親公所跟居民討論過嗎?有,他那個整條都有地方的討論,包括有一些地方要不要"},{"start":1302.635,"end":1302.655,"text":"韓國瑜"},{"start":1321.824,"end":1330.726,"text":"我們確實要確保臺東的人有一條安全回家的路,這個我們中央跟地方可以一起合作。不過這駕駛是我覺得他本來是要把它分隔讓他比較安全"},{"start":1345.39,"end":1361.109,"text":"我是覺得這個這張好像不是設計錯誤啦我只是我個人的猜測這個是這個照片是我們東部執行長洪宗凱發的照片對我是說這個到底是駕駛的因素還是設計的因素那我實際上是能夠再檢討這件事情是是是"},{"start":1367.779,"end":1395.375,"text":"我們台中12年,先前一位立委,我們前一位立委,最後12年都在交通委員會。那民進黨在這8年也在執政。那我們等了12年,其實我們等來什麼路?院長,我們看一下這張照片。我們前一年我們在這條路啦,關山、戰備道。院長有發現這條路該在什麼地方嗎?這個我不是很清楚。台九,也是。"},{"start":1403.859,"end":1424.812,"text":"這條戰備跑道蓋在農田上,這些都是糧田,台東的糧倉就在中古地區,你把戰備跑道蓋在糧田上,我不知道是基於什麼樣的原因?我這個跟委員要報告一下好不好?"},{"start":1425.543,"end":1451.526,"text":"這戰備道原本就是本來要修條路把拓寬為了交通方便那既然有這戰備道既然有道路的話但我們也想到講說這個道路的機場啊可以停機啊是不夠的關於西部地區但花東地區我們也找到但我們絕對不會想說為了要做一個戰備道讓飛行能夠起降而影響到其他的交通這都既有的往那拓寬"},{"start":1456.553,"end":1481.207,"text":"國防安全我們絕對支持,因為守護國家安全是每一個人的責任可是我們為了要專門跑道把它蓋在糧田上這件事情我覺得很奇怪明明旁邊不是還有道路為什麼一定要跟農民爭農地我跟委員報告,目前委員提供這個圖我們以前所規劃跟地方政府協調過都沒有問題"},{"start":1482.15,"end":1511.123,"text":"現在怎麼會影響到講說回去涼田,我要做一個查證以後再去跟我們做什麼。那個部長,這個下去衍生的問題很多欸。你站在跑道你是不是未來也有那個空白那個那個農機的一些限制,譬如說現在農田撒藥是用無人機,那這個會影響到?會嗎?敢沒?好,這個問題再來討論,我想要表達的是說"},{"start":1513.612,"end":1540.564,"text":"如果戰爭都還沒爆發,就先爆發糧食危機。我想要問一問在場的每位長官,今天真的有打仗的話,你們是挨餓上戰場,你們是吃飽上戰場,還是挨餓上戰場吃子彈?糧食的問題同樣重要不是嗎?這是戰略無知吧?但是兩個一起重要,一樣重要。所以我們這個東西是不是用它來檢討本席堅決的要求?"},{"start":1543.112,"end":1544.693,"text":"市長,我還是建議要求,我們旁邊其實"},{"start":1572.338,"end":1578.58,"text":"國防安全我們絕對支持,但是是不是可以不要犧牲農民的權益,這個是本席的要求。"},{"start":1601.242,"end":1628.305,"text":"委員長,其實臺東人要的很簡單,真的很簡單,就是一條平安、安全、快速回家的道路。那,我們為了國防安全,我們都會支持,但是也要還給臺東人用路的正義,還給臺東人一條平安、回家、快速的道路。所以我另外也堅持,我堅決的支持新建花東快速道路。全院長你知不支持這件事情?"},{"start":1630.273,"end":1631.319,"text":"在這核心性研究當中。"},{"start":1633.735,"end":1660.548,"text":"這個委員我先跟你簡單說明一下我們要開一條路一定要做可行性評估然後在需要的話還黃評然後細部規劃等等的會有一個質詢那現在的時程是在可行性研究這個階段那可行性研究對台東的話可能我們交通部都會給個可行性研究的相關的經費了解謝謝院長我現在院長會了這樣院長你都提到你520之後要離開行政團隊嗎"},{"start":1662.196,"end":1690.39,"text":"那不過我相信不然院長在那裡都會繼續支持也協助我們臺東的發展就像院長我第一次聽到院長你到南興看我們習神父的精神一樣習神父在臺東人的心目中地位非常的崇高因為他是第一個到偏鄉來傳教而且是照顧臺東子弟的一位神父所以我相信院長也因為這樣的精神來照顧偏鄉的子弟我也謝謝院長"},{"start":1692.881,"end":1720.609,"text":"那也謝謝我們兩位部長剛剛還有一點點的時間我想我再插播一下接下來可能那個問題會跟我們韓院長有點關係院長我待會可能會提到韓院長不好意思那個院長我最近在新聞上看到廢廢樣的就是這個民主基金會董事長這件事情我們也看在新聞這邊有執政黨的委員說"},{"start":1722.763,"end":1734.959,"text":"如果接下來有辦了董事長之後,我們的方向,整個方向會改變。我不知道,我聽不太懂這個意思,那我也不知道說在擔心什麼。這個要問哪一個部分,問哪一個單位。"},{"start":1737.086,"end":1756.891,"text":"我想這個部分民主基金會他是一個獨立運作的基金會那基金會在2月28日的時候的新聞稿已經有表示董事長出缺以後三個月必須要重新改選董事長目前正在協調要召開董事會的過程"},{"start":1757.551,"end":1760.533,"text":"我相信在場都一樣吧,都是捍衛這塊土地上的自由民主,應該是這樣吧?對,我想這個基金會"},{"start":1785.211,"end":1785.911,"text":"我請次長來說明比較清楚。"},{"start":1810.777,"end":1819.484,"text":"委員好,現在基金會他們要找一個確定的時間,先開會,開董事會,那麼董事會也有按照章程去處理這個事情。謝謝。"},{"start":1834.517,"end":1834.898,"text":"謝謝黃院長本期質詢到此謝謝"}]}}}}