{"id":149182,"url":"https://ivod.ly.gov.tw/Play/Clip/1M/149182","video_url":"https://ivod-lyvod.cdn.hinet.net/vod_1/_definst_/mp4:1MClips/ad9f873b941d2ddd7b43c589a377a68df012038cf3c9e62ff8ba9b0039caa7a685c42620c1be23675ea18f28b6918d91.mp4/playlist.m3u8","委員名稱":"陳菁徽","委員發言時間":"09:23:29 - 09:33:51","影片長度":"00:10:22","會議時間":"2024-03-04T09:00:00+08:00","會議名稱":"立法院第11屆第1會期社會福利及衛生環境委員會第2次全體委員會議（事由：邀請行政院食品安全辦公室、衛生福利部部長、食品藥物管理署就「食安五環執行狀況及蘇丹紅事件處理之檢討」進行專題報告，並備質詢。）","meet":{"tmpMeeting":null,"title":"第11屆第1會期社會福利及衛生環境委員會第2次全體委員會議","term":11,"type":"委員會","sessionPeriod":1,"sessionTimes":2,"committees":[26],"id":"委員會-11-1-26-2"},"date":"2024-03-04","duration":622,"end_time":"2024-03-04T09:33:51+08:00","start_time":"2024-03-04T09:23:29+08:00","features":["ai-transcript","gazette"],"type":"Clip","gazette":{"lineno":240,"blocks":[["陳委員菁徽：（9時23分）主席、現場各位大家好，我想邀請部長以及署長。"],["主席：好，部長、署長請。"],["陳委員菁徽：我們來一起討論。"],["薛部長瑞元：委員好。"],["陳委員菁徽：大家知道臺灣經過統計其實有高達七成的人是外食族，在外食族的狀況下，大家對於食品的製造鏈比起其他國家其實是相當陌生的，因此仰賴兩位長官為我們全民來把關，這非常重要。但剛部長有提到您覺得到現在源頭都還有一點不清楚，所以在食安五環中，目前是哪一環的問題最大？"],["薛部長瑞元：其實就這個事件來講的話，並沒有說源頭不清楚，因為我們已經禁止這21家中國進口商了。"],["陳委員菁徽：感謝你。"],["薛部長瑞元：所以現在在追的就是還沒有100%抽驗之前，有一些……"],["陳委員菁徽：已經流入了……"],["薛部長瑞元：比方說50%就有一些可能是有進來，我們是在循線來追蹤這些已經進來的會跑到哪裡。"],["陳委員菁徽：不知道兩位長官是否有信心，我們今年大概幾月，大家可以不用再恐慌？因為這個週末所有的媽媽、所有的家長都已經被新聞嚇到了。"],["薛部長瑞元：目前的話，循線去追的有五十九批，其中有三十幾批是已經合格的，差不多有將近十批是不合格，另外還在檢驗中的目前大概還有六批沒有……"],["陳委員菁徽：所以我們國家應該要讓人民食無不安，國家應該要讓人民食無不安，可是這幾天全國是寢食難安，所以我們現在一起來檢驗、檢討，我們到底哪一方面可以繼續一起努力，這個是衛福部食安週報寫的，它說我們要去驗所有農產品的農藥殘留量，因為只要符合法定標準，就不會對人體產生危害。","換言之，假使超過了法定標準，就會對人體產生危害，所以這個是衛福部食藥署教育我們全體人民的，但部長知道我們最近有多少進口水果驗出農藥嗎？"],["薛部長瑞元：有一些日本的，因為日本他們在種植草莓的時候，事實上它會使用我們國內沒有用的農藥……"],["陳委員菁徽：瞭解，所以過去這兩年被我們邊境查獲退掉或是銷毀的，高達快要100次的草莓，其中都是驗出比如說亞醌蟎、亞滅培、氟尼胺等等的農藥，這個您同意嗎？"],["薛部長瑞元：是，是有這樣不合格的原因。"],["陳委員菁徽：好，所以我們今年1月9日的時候，食藥署硬起來，它正式對日本說請未來送來臺灣的草莓都一定要符合臺灣的法規，所以暫停5家業者輸入1個月，大家注意這個時間1月9號。再來，到了1月24號，風向卻有180度的轉變，1月24號食藥署預告全國人民說我們即將修正日本進口草莓的農藥殘留容許標準，請問在這15天內，我們的行政流程在邏輯上是有什麼樣的觀念呢？"],["薛部長瑞元：修正農藥殘留容許標準這件事情是之前更早的時候他們就已經申請了，這個申請的案子我們就必須要去處理，所以我們就提出預告……"],["陳委員菁徽：可以請部長稍微告訴我們大家，像這樣子的草莓1月9號以前是不能吃的，1月24號以後是可以吃的嗎？"],["薛部長瑞元：如果能夠通過預告最低容許量的標準，低於最低容許量的就可以。"],["陳委員菁徽：低於最低容許量就可以吃？所以請問兩位是如何訂出這個新標準？"],["薛部長瑞元：這個必須要參考專家的一些意見才能來訂出來，以及國際的一些標準……"],["陳委員菁徽：我只能推論也許在這15天，我們在選舉或是外交上有什麼重大的突破，因此在1月9號跟1月24號全國人民是不是可以安心吃草莓的認定已經不一樣了。我們來看一下，其實兩位在去（112）年就已經為了這個農藥召開了至少三次會議，我們發現有個氟尼胺本來是零檢出，但是後來遵守歐盟的標準，所以我們稍微要把它提高，對吧？"],["薛部長瑞元：是。"],["陳委員菁徽：好，我們再來看另外3個您開放的，不管是亞醌蟎，克凡派還是滅芬座，我們本來是零檢出，但是CODEX也是零檢出，歐盟也是零檢出，為何我們這3個就必須要去遵照日本的標準呢？"],["薛部長瑞元：這當然還是要經過最後的審查。"],["陳委員菁徽：所以您跟署長在未來正式通過這些草莓以前，會預告全國人民為何我們會做出這樣子的決策嗎？"],["薛部長瑞元：目前就是在預告的過程當中，我們蒐集各方的一些意見，最後還是會由專家會議來做決定……"],["陳委員菁徽：那看起來我們的橫向溝通也出了問題，因為如果依照我們新的標準，進口草莓有農藥不會依照食安法開罰，但我們國內的農民如果有用了以下這4種農藥的話，是會依照農業管理法處罰的耶！"],["薛部長瑞元：對，進口跟國產的標準本來就不是完全一致的。"],["陳委員菁徽：所以最後我幫大家結論一下，因為您曾經說我們可以拿來宣傳國內的草莓嘛？"],["薛部長瑞元：對啊！如果我們國產草莓沒有這類的農藥，你大可以大大方方去做宣傳。"],["陳委員菁徽：但我們現在其實剛好有講到，在臺灣這樣子的文化之下，大家對於食品生產鏈是相當陌生的，所以未來如果食藥署不是為我們把關，而是幫我們宣傳農產品的話，這樣我們的目的是不是有點錯誤了？"],["薛部長瑞元：宣傳當然是由農業部門去做宣傳，我們不會去做這個宣傳。"],["陳委員菁徽：對，剛剛上一個委員有提到，我們除了源頭出了問題以外，昨天我在賣場剛好又看到所有的海底撈都還在架上，所以也在這邊拿給大家展示一下，其實到處都還買得到。"],["薛部長瑞元：這個是我們有公布違規的一些批號，這一些違規的批號一定要先下架。"],["陳委員菁徽：現在你們會衛教我們全國人民這些是否還能吃嗎？如果家裡還有的，或是昨天賣場還有買到的。"],["薛部長瑞元：這些違規批號的部分我們會公布出來，海底撈就必須要接受民眾的退貨。"],["陳委員菁徽：是，剛有提到其實第一次查驗到蘇丹紅已經是前年的事情了，但是我們去年12月才開始逐批查驗，一直到今年才限制它再繼續進口，我想問一下，我們這樣拖了整整2年，國人吃下肚的已經非常多了，就算……"],["薛部長瑞元：去年，去年才查到。"],["陳委員菁徽：對，拖了1年，請問這樣子的流程是一種行政怠惰嗎？"],["薛部長瑞元：沒有，我跟委員稍微做一點解釋，一開始在查辣椒粉，是包括農藥還有一些中金屬等等，這一類我們通通查。後來在5月以後，才發現含有蘇丹紅批號的批次比例是高的，所以才逐步地把抽查的比例……"],["陳委員菁徽：是，但根據我查到的法規，從第九條、第十條、第十一條，不管是第四款、第五款，其實當您認為有必要予以逐批查驗時都可以隨時開始，其實不需要20%再到50%再到逐批查驗，你引用本來的法規就可以了，但後來居然說新措施會在3月1日上路，我們不再逐漸調高抽驗比例，以前的法規都可以適用啊！"],["薛部長瑞元：的確是沒有錯，但是在我們routine，我還是再強調一下，一開始在邊境查驗的對象是辣椒粉，查驗、檢驗的項目裡面，其實不合格的大部分是農藥，蘇丹紅是比較少數的，但是當我們提高了這個比例之後，才發現蘇丹紅的比例卻是……"],["陳委員菁徽：所以意思是說，當時你們不認為它是蓄意違法，因此當時沒有逐漸調高抽驗的比例？"],["薛部長瑞元：對，沒有針對蘇丹紅去做提高管制的措施，是整個比例增加之後，發現蘇丹紅也跟著增加，而且更高。"],["陳委員菁徽：謝謝，我們很希望這幾天的努力可以讓我們全國人民免於蘇丹紅的恐懼。"],["薛部長瑞元：是。"],["陳委員菁徽：謝謝主席。"],["薛部長瑞元：謝謝。"],["主席：非常謝謝陳菁徽委員的質詢。","接下來請廖偉翔委員進行質詢。"]],"agenda":{"page_end":296,"meet_id":"委員會-11-1-26-2","speakers":["王育敏","陳昭姿","陳菁徽","廖偉翔","林月琴","涂權吉","邱鎮軍","黃秀芳","蘇清泉","盧縣一","劉建國","王正旭","楊曜","林淑芬","陳雪生","洪孟楷","謝衣鳯","陳瑩","王鴻薇","黃國昌","楊瓊瓔","羅智強","林德福"],"page_start":209,"meetingDate":["2024-03-04"],"gazette_id":"1130601","agenda_lcidc_ids":["1130601_00009"],"meet_name":"立法院第11屆第1會期社會福利及衛生環境委員會第2次全體委員會議紀錄","content":"邀請行政院食品安全辦公室、衛生福利部部長、食品藥物管理署就「食安五環執行狀況及蘇丹紅\n事件處理之檢討」進行專題報告，並備質詢","agenda_id":"1130601_00008"}},"transcript":{"id":"149182","pyannote":{"name":"ronny","tool":"pyannote","data":{"url":"https://ivod.ly.gov.tw/Play/Clip/1M/149182","tool":"pyannote","id":"149182-pyannote"},"job_id":"C3UE7htibX6NVVqH","queued_at":"2024-06-02 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0.989}, {\"word\": \"歐\", \"start\": 326.924, \"end\": 327.124, \"score\": 0.89}, {\"word\": \"盟\", \"start\": 327.124, \"end\": 327.304, \"score\": 0.806}, {\"word\": \"也\", \"start\": 327.304, \"end\": 327.404, \"score\": 0.939}, {\"word\": \"是\", \"start\": 327.404, \"end\": 327.544, \"score\": 0.64}, {\"word\": \"零\", \"start\": 327.544, \"end\": 327.965, \"score\": 0.901}, {\"word\": \"檢\"}, {\"word\": \"出\", \"start\": 327.965, \"end\": 328.906, \"score\": 0.949}, {\"word\": \"為\"}, {\"word\": \"何\", \"start\": 328.906, \"end\": 329.526, \"score\": 0.902}, {\"word\": \"我\", \"start\": 329.526, \"end\": 330.007, \"score\": 0.85}, {\"word\": \"們\"}, {\"word\": \"這\"}, {\"word\": \"三\", \"start\": 330.007, \"end\": 330.387, \"score\": 0.804}, {\"word\": \"個\"}, {\"word\": \"就\", \"start\": 330.387, \"end\": 330.548, \"score\": 0.952}, {\"word\": \"必\", \"start\": 330.548, \"end\": 330.868, \"score\": 0.924}, {\"word\": \"須\"}, {\"word\": \"要\", \"start\": 330.868, \"end\": 331.028, 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{\"word\": \"方\", \"start\": 395.223, \"end\": 395.363, \"score\": 0.983}, {\"word\": \"方\", \"start\": 395.363, \"end\": 395.563, \"score\": 0.9}, {\"word\": \"去\", \"start\": 395.563, \"end\": 395.723, \"score\": 0.875}, {\"word\": \"做\", \"start\": 395.723, \"end\": 395.904, \"score\": 0.9}, {\"word\": \"宣\", \"start\": 395.904, \"end\": 395.924, \"score\": 0.994}, {\"word\": \"傳\"}]}, {\"start\": 397.12, \"end\": 397.801, \"text\": \"昨天剛好我又在賣場\", \"words\": [{\"word\": \"昨\", \"start\": 397.12, \"end\": 397.14, \"score\": 0.0}, {\"word\": \"天\", \"start\": 397.14, \"end\": 397.32, \"score\": 0.571}, {\"word\": \"剛\"}, {\"word\": \"好\", \"start\": 397.32, \"end\": 397.5, \"score\": 0.887}, {\"word\": \"我\", \"start\": 397.5, \"end\": 397.621, \"score\": 0.949}, {\"word\": \"又\", \"start\": 397.621, \"end\": 397.781, \"score\": 0.842}, {\"word\": \"在\", \"start\": 397.781, \"end\": 397.801, \"score\": 0.0}, {\"word\": \"賣\"}, {\"word\": \"場\"}]}, {\"start\": 426.624, \"end\": 430.145, \"text\": \"這是我們有公布違規的一些批號那這些違規的批號一定要先下架\", \"words\": [{\"word\": \"這\"}, {\"word\": \"是\", \"start\": 426.624, \"end\": 427.464, \"score\": 0.952}, {\"word\": \"我\", \"start\": 427.464, \"end\": 427.664, \"score\": 0.9}, {\"word\": \"們\"}, {\"word\": \"有\", \"start\": 427.664, \"end\": 427.764, \"score\": 1.0}, {\"word\": \"公\", \"start\": 427.764, \"end\": 427.784, \"score\": 0.0}, {\"word\": \"布\", \"start\": 427.784, \"end\": 427.804, \"score\": 0.0}, {\"word\": \"違\"}, {\"word\": \"規\"}, {\"word\": \"的\", \"start\": 427.804, \"end\": 428.225, \"score\": 0.978}, {\"word\": \"一\", \"start\": 428.225, \"end\": 428.405, \"score\": 0.889}, {\"word\": \"些\", \"start\": 428.405, \"end\": 428.485, \"score\": 0.75}, {\"word\": \"批\", \"start\": 428.485, \"end\": 428.585, \"score\": 0.8}, {\"word\": \"號\"}, {\"word\": \"那\", \"start\": 428.585, \"end\": 428.605, \"score\": 0.0}, {\"word\": \"這\"}, {\"word\": \"些\", \"start\": 428.605, \"end\": 428.645, \"score\": 0.5}, {\"word\": 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00:01:41,174\n那不知道兩位長官是否有信心我們今年大概幾月大家可以不用再恐慌因為這個週末所有的媽媽所有的家長都已經被新聞嚇到了目前的話循線去追了有59批那其中有30幾批是已經合格的那有差不多將近10批是不合格另外還在檢驗中的大概目前還剩下9\n\n5\n00:01:44,116 --> 00:02:06,891\n所以我們國家應該要讓人民食無不安國家應該要讓人民食無不安可是這幾天全國是寢食難安所以我們現在一起來檢驗檢討我們到底哪一方面可以繼續一起努力這個是衛福部食安週報寫的他說我們要去驗所有農產品的農藥量\n\n6\n00:02:07,992 --> 00:02:25,923\n餐油量是因為只要符合法定標準就不會對人體產生危害換言之假使超過了法定標準就會對人體產生危害所以這個是衛福部食藥署教育我們全體人民的但知道最近我們有多少進口的水果驗出農藥嗎\n\n7\n00:02:30,070 --> 00:02:53,605\n有一些日本的因為日本他們在種植草莓的時候那事實上他會使用我們國內沒有用的所以我們過去這兩年其實被我們邊境查獲退掉或是銷毀的高達快要100次的這個草莓其中都是驗出比如說亞昆蠻、亞滅培等等\n\n8\n00:02:56,516 --> 00:03:18,636\n福尼安等等的農藥這個您同意嗎是那有這樣子的不合格的原因好所以我們今年1月9號的時候食藥署印起來他正式對日本說請未來呢送來台灣的草莓都一定要符合台灣的法規所以暫停五家業者輸入一個月好大家注意這個時間1月9號\n\n9\n00:03:22,216 --> 00:03:36,120\n但再來呢1月24號卻封向180度的轉變1月24號食藥署預告我們全國人民說我們即將修正日本進口這個草莓農藥的殘留容許標準請問在這15天我們的\n\n10\n00:03:42,302 --> 00:04:11,465\n行政流程啊、邏輯上是有什麼樣的觀念呢?這個修正農藥殘留的容許標準這件事情的話是之前更早的話他們就已經申請了那這個申請的案子我們就必須要去處理所以我們就提出預告那可以請部長稍微告訴我們大家像這樣子的草莓1月9號以前是不能吃的1月24號以後是可以吃的嗎?\n\n11\n00:04:12,182 --> 00:04:13,562\n請問兩位是如何訂出這個標準的這個新標準\n\n12\n00:04:32,957 --> 00:04:40,024\n這個是必須要參考我們專家的一些意見來定出來的以及說國際的一些表現我只能推論說也許在這15天我們選舉啊或者是外交啊像有什麼重大的突破因此讓我們1月9號跟1月24號對於草莓是不是全國人民可以安心吃的認定已經不一樣了我們來看一下\n\n13\n00:04:57,919 --> 00:05:14,377\n其實呢兩位在112年去年就已經為了這個農藥召開了至少三次會議喔我們發現有個福尼安好我們本來是零減出但是呢後來遵守歐盟這個標準所以我們稍微要把他提高對吧\n\n14\n00:05:16,272 --> 00:05:32,390\n我們再來看另外三個您開放的不管是雅庫蘭克派凡、滅分作我們本來是零檢出但是Codex也是零檢出歐盟也是零檢出為何我們這三個就必須要去遵照日本的標準呢?\n\n15\n00:05:34,132 --> 00:05:45,823\n這當然還是要經過最後的審查是,所以您跟署長會在未來正式通過這些草苺以前會預告我們全國人民為何我們會做出這樣子的決策嗎?\n\n16\n00:05:47,618 --> 00:06:14,169\n目前就是在預告的過程當中我們收集各方的一些意見那最後的話還是會由專家會議來做決定那看起來我們的橫向溝通也出了問題因為如果依照我們新的標準我們進口草苺有農藥不會依照食安法開法但我們國內的農民如果有用了以下這四種農藥的話是會依照農業管理法處罰的\n\n17\n00:06:16,310 --> 00:06:35,924\n進口跟國產的本來就這個標準不是完全一致的所以最後幫大家結論一下因為您曾經說我們可以拿來宣傳國內的草莓嗎對啊所以如果我們國產草莓是沒有這類的農藥你大可以大大方方去做宣傳\n\n18\n00:06:37,120 --> 00:06:37,801\n昨天剛好我又在賣場\n\n19\n00:07:06,624 --> 00:07:10,145\n這是我們有公布違規的一些批號那這些違規的批號一定要先下架\n\n20\n00:07:32,435 --> 00:07:50,716\n那現在你們會餵叫我們全國的人民這些是否還能吃嗎?如果家裡還有的或是昨天賣場還有買到的?這部分我們會公布出來那這些違規的批號那海底撈就必須要接受民眾的退貨\n\n21\n00:07:52,197 --> 00:08:15,071\n剛有提到說其實第一次查驗到蘇丹紅已經是前年的事情了但是呢我們去年12月才開始逐批查驗一直到今年才限制他繼續進口我想問一下其實我們這樣拖了整整兩年國人吃下肚已經非常多了對拖了一年\n\n22\n00:08:16,652 --> 00:08:31,402\n請問這樣的流程是一種行政怠惰嗎?我跟委員稍微做一個解釋一開始在查辣椒粉是包括這個農藥還有一些可能是有中金屬等等這一類我們通通查\n\n23\n00:08:32,282 --> 00:08:56,743\n那後來是才發現說在5月以後的話發現說這一個含有蘇丹紅的批號這個批次的比例是高的所以才逐步的把這個是但根據我查到的法規從第9條第10條第11條不管是第4款第5款其實當您認為有必要足以逐批查驗\n\n24\n00:08:57,864 --> 00:08:57,904\n主席\n\n25\n00:09:19,467 --> 00:09:20,007\n對象是辣椒粉\n\n26\n00:09:34,232 --> 00:10:02,279\n那查驗的檢驗的這個項目裡面其實不合格大部分是農藥蘇丹紅是比較少數的但是當我們提高了這個比例之後才發現說蘇丹紅的比例所以意思是說當時你們不認為他是蓄意違法所以當時沒有逐漸調高抽驗的比例沒有沒有針對蘇丹紅去做這個提高管制的措施謝謝\n\n27\n00:10:03,559 --> 00:10:03,739\n陳菁徽委員\n\n","tsv":"start\tend\ttext\n7475\t34576\t主席現場各位大家好我想邀請部長以及署長好部長署長請我們來一起討論大家知道臺灣其實經過統計我們有高達七成的人是外食族那是外食族的狀況下大家會對於這個食品的製造鏈其實比起其他國家是相當陌生的因此仰賴兩位長官為我們全民來把關是非常重要\n35492\t45594\t但剛剛部長有提到說您覺得到現在源頭都還有一點不清楚所以您覺得食安五環是哪一環目前問題最大呢?\n47151\t71180\t其實就這個事件來講的話並沒有說源頭不清楚因為我們已經把21家的這個中國進口的廠商那已經禁止他進口了所以現在在追的就是還沒有100%抽菸之前有一些就有一些可能是有進來那我們是在循線來追蹤這些\n73041\t101174\t那不知道兩位長官是否有信心我們今年大概幾月大家可以不用再恐慌因為這個週末所有的媽媽所有的家長都已經被新聞嚇到了目前的話循線去追了有59批那其中有30幾批是已經合格的那有差不多將近10批是不合格另外還在檢驗中的大概目前還剩下9\n104116\t126891\t所以我們國家應該要讓人民食無不安國家應該要讓人民食無不安可是這幾天全國是寢食難安所以我們現在一起來檢驗檢討我們到底哪一方面可以繼續一起努力這個是衛福部食安週報寫的他說我們要去驗所有農產品的農藥量\n127992\t145923\t餐油量是因為只要符合法定標準就不會對人體產生危害換言之假使超過了法定標準就會對人體產生危害所以這個是衛福部食藥署教育我們全體人民的但知道最近我們有多少進口的水果驗出農藥嗎\n150070\t173605\t有一些日本的因為日本他們在種植草莓的時候那事實上他會使用我們國內沒有用的所以我們過去這兩年其實被我們邊境查獲退掉或是銷毀的高達快要100次的這個草莓其中都是驗出比如說亞昆蠻、亞滅培等等\n176516\t198636\t福尼安等等的農藥這個您同意嗎是那有這樣子的不合格的原因好所以我們今年1月9號的時候食藥署印起來他正式對日本說請未來呢送來台灣的草莓都一定要符合台灣的法規所以暫停五家業者輸入一個月好大家注意這個時間1月9號\n202216\t216120\t但再來呢1月24號卻封向180度的轉變1月24號食藥署預告我們全國人民說我們即將修正日本進口這個草莓農藥的殘留容許標準請問在這15天我們的\n222302\t251465\t行政流程啊、邏輯上是有什麼樣的觀念呢?這個修正農藥殘留的容許標準這件事情的話是之前更早的話他們就已經申請了那這個申請的案子我們就必須要去處理所以我們就提出預告那可以請部長稍微告訴我們大家像這樣子的草莓1月9號以前是不能吃的1月24號以後是可以吃的嗎?\n252182\t253562\t請問兩位是如何訂出這個標準的這個新標準\n272957\t280024\t這個是必須要參考我們專家的一些意見來定出來的以及說國際的一些表現我只能推論說也許在這15天我們選舉啊或者是外交啊像有什麼重大的突破因此讓我們1月9號跟1月24號對於草莓是不是全國人民可以安心吃的認定已經不一樣了我們來看一下\n297919\t314377\t其實呢兩位在112年去年就已經為了這個農藥召開了至少三次會議喔我們發現有個福尼安好我們本來是零減出但是呢後來遵守歐盟這個標準所以我們稍微要把他提高對吧\n316272\t332390\t我們再來看另外三個您開放的不管是雅庫蘭克派凡、滅分作我們本來是零檢出但是Codex也是零檢出歐盟也是零檢出為何我們這三個就必須要去遵照日本的標準呢?\n334132\t345823\t這當然還是要經過最後的審查是,所以您跟署長會在未來正式通過這些草苺以前會預告我們全國人民為何我們會做出這樣子的決策嗎?\n347618\t374169\t目前就是在預告的過程當中我們收集各方的一些意見那最後的話還是會由專家會議來做決定那看起來我們的橫向溝通也出了問題因為如果依照我們新的標準我們進口草苺有農藥不會依照食安法開法但我們國內的農民如果有用了以下這四種農藥的話是會依照農業管理法處罰的\n376310\t395924\t進口跟國產的本來就這個標準不是完全一致的所以最後幫大家結論一下因為您曾經說我們可以拿來宣傳國內的草莓嗎對啊所以如果我們國產草莓是沒有這類的農藥你大可以大大方方去做宣傳\n397120\t397801\t昨天剛好我又在賣場\n426624\t430145\t這是我們有公布違規的一些批號那這些違規的批號一定要先下架\n452435\t470716\t那現在你們會餵叫我們全國的人民這些是否還能吃嗎?如果家裡還有的或是昨天賣場還有買到的?這部分我們會公布出來那這些違規的批號那海底撈就必須要接受民眾的退貨\n472197\t495071\t剛有提到說其實第一次查驗到蘇丹紅已經是前年的事情了但是呢我們去年12月才開始逐批查驗一直到今年才限制他繼續進口我想問一下其實我們這樣拖了整整兩年國人吃下肚已經非常多了對拖了一年\n496652\t511402\t請問這樣的流程是一種行政怠惰嗎?我跟委員稍微做一個解釋一開始在查辣椒粉是包括這個農藥還有一些可能是有中金屬等等這一類我們通通查\n512282\t536743\t那後來是才發現說在5月以後的話發現說這一個含有蘇丹紅的批號這個批次的比例是高的所以才逐步的把這個是但根據我查到的法規從第9條第10條第11條不管是第4款第5款其實當您認為有必要足以逐批查驗\n537864\t537904\t主席\n559467\t560007\t對象是辣椒粉\n574232\t602279\t那查驗的檢驗的這個項目裡面其實不合格大部分是農藥蘇丹紅是比較少數的但是當我們提高了這個比例之後才發現說蘇丹紅的比例所以意思是說當時你們不認為他是蓄意違法所以當時沒有逐漸調高抽驗的比例沒有沒有針對蘇丹紅去做這個提高管制的措施謝謝\n603559\t603739\t陳菁徽委員\n","txt":"主席現場各位大家好我想邀請部長以及署長好部長署長請我們來一起討論大家知道臺灣其實經過統計我們有高達七成的人是外食族那是外食族的狀況下大家會對於這個食品的製造鏈其實比起其他國家是相當陌生的因此仰賴兩位長官為我們全民來把關是非常重要\n但剛剛部長有提到說您覺得到現在源頭都還有一點不清楚所以您覺得食安五環是哪一環目前問題最大呢?\n其實就這個事件來講的話並沒有說源頭不清楚因為我們已經把21家的這個中國進口的廠商那已經禁止他進口了所以現在在追的就是還沒有100%抽菸之前有一些就有一些可能是有進來那我們是在循線來追蹤這些\n那不知道兩位長官是否有信心我們今年大概幾月大家可以不用再恐慌因為這個週末所有的媽媽所有的家長都已經被新聞嚇到了目前的話循線去追了有59批那其中有30幾批是已經合格的那有差不多將近10批是不合格另外還在檢驗中的大概目前還剩下9\n所以我們國家應該要讓人民食無不安國家應該要讓人民食無不安可是這幾天全國是寢食難安所以我們現在一起來檢驗檢討我們到底哪一方面可以繼續一起努力這個是衛福部食安週報寫的他說我們要去驗所有農產品的農藥量\n餐油量是因為只要符合法定標準就不會對人體產生危害換言之假使超過了法定標準就會對人體產生危害所以這個是衛福部食藥署教育我們全體人民的但知道最近我們有多少進口的水果驗出農藥嗎\n有一些日本的因為日本他們在種植草莓的時候那事實上他會使用我們國內沒有用的所以我們過去這兩年其實被我們邊境查獲退掉或是銷毀的高達快要100次的這個草莓其中都是驗出比如說亞昆蠻、亞滅培等等\n福尼安等等的農藥這個您同意嗎是那有這樣子的不合格的原因好所以我們今年1月9號的時候食藥署印起來他正式對日本說請未來呢送來台灣的草莓都一定要符合台灣的法規所以暫停五家業者輸入一個月好大家注意這個時間1月9號\n但再來呢1月24號卻封向180度的轉變1月24號食藥署預告我們全國人民說我們即將修正日本進口這個草莓農藥的殘留容許標準請問在這15天我們的\n行政流程啊、邏輯上是有什麼樣的觀念呢?這個修正農藥殘留的容許標準這件事情的話是之前更早的話他們就已經申請了那這個申請的案子我們就必須要去處理所以我們就提出預告那可以請部長稍微告訴我們大家像這樣子的草莓1月9號以前是不能吃的1月24號以後是可以吃的嗎?\n請問兩位是如何訂出這個標準的這個新標準\n這個是必須要參考我們專家的一些意見來定出來的以及說國際的一些表現我只能推論說也許在這15天我們選舉啊或者是外交啊像有什麼重大的突破因此讓我們1月9號跟1月24號對於草莓是不是全國人民可以安心吃的認定已經不一樣了我們來看一下\n其實呢兩位在112年去年就已經為了這個農藥召開了至少三次會議喔我們發現有個福尼安好我們本來是零減出但是呢後來遵守歐盟這個標準所以我們稍微要把他提高對吧\n我們再來看另外三個您開放的不管是雅庫蘭克派凡、滅分作我們本來是零檢出但是Codex也是零檢出歐盟也是零檢出為何我們這三個就必須要去遵照日本的標準呢?\n這當然還是要經過最後的審查是,所以您跟署長會在未來正式通過這些草苺以前會預告我們全國人民為何我們會做出這樣子的決策嗎?\n目前就是在預告的過程當中我們收集各方的一些意見那最後的話還是會由專家會議來做決定那看起來我們的橫向溝通也出了問題因為如果依照我們新的標準我們進口草苺有農藥不會依照食安法開法但我們國內的農民如果有用了以下這四種農藥的話是會依照農業管理法處罰的\n進口跟國產的本來就這個標準不是完全一致的所以最後幫大家結論一下因為您曾經說我們可以拿來宣傳國內的草莓嗎對啊所以如果我們國產草莓是沒有這類的農藥你大可以大大方方去做宣傳\n昨天剛好我又在賣場\n這是我們有公布違規的一些批號那這些違規的批號一定要先下架\n那現在你們會餵叫我們全國的人民這些是否還能吃嗎?如果家裡還有的或是昨天賣場還有買到的?這部分我們會公布出來那這些違規的批號那海底撈就必須要接受民眾的退貨\n剛有提到說其實第一次查驗到蘇丹紅已經是前年的事情了但是呢我們去年12月才開始逐批查驗一直到今年才限制他繼續進口我想問一下其實我們這樣拖了整整兩年國人吃下肚已經非常多了對拖了一年\n請問這樣的流程是一種行政怠惰嗎?我跟委員稍微做一個解釋一開始在查辣椒粉是包括這個農藥還有一些可能是有中金屬等等這一類我們通通查\n那後來是才發現說在5月以後的話發現說這一個含有蘇丹紅的批號這個批次的比例是高的所以才逐步的把這個是但根據我查到的法規從第9條第10條第11條不管是第4款第5款其實當您認為有必要足以逐批查驗\n主席\n對象是辣椒粉\n那查驗的檢驗的這個項目裡面其實不合格大部分是農藥蘇丹紅是比較少數的但是當我們提高了這個比例之後才發現說蘇丹紅的比例所以意思是說當時你們不認為他是蓄意違法所以當時沒有逐漸調高抽驗的比例沒有沒有針對蘇丹紅去做這個提高管制的措施謝謝\n陳菁徽委員\n","vtt":"WEBVTT\n\n00:07.475 --> 00:34.576\n主席現場各位大家好我想邀請部長以及署長好部長署長請我們來一起討論大家知道臺灣其實經過統計我們有高達七成的人是外食族那是外食族的狀況下大家會對於這個食品的製造鏈其實比起其他國家是相當陌生的因此仰賴兩位長官為我們全民來把關是非常重要\n\n00:35.492 --> 00:45.594\n但剛剛部長有提到說您覺得到現在源頭都還有一點不清楚所以您覺得食安五環是哪一環目前問題最大呢?\n\n00:47.151 --> 01:11.180\n其實就這個事件來講的話並沒有說源頭不清楚因為我們已經把21家的這個中國進口的廠商那已經禁止他進口了所以現在在追的就是還沒有100%抽菸之前有一些就有一些可能是有進來那我們是在循線來追蹤這些\n\n01:13.041 --> 01:41.174\n那不知道兩位長官是否有信心我們今年大概幾月大家可以不用再恐慌因為這個週末所有的媽媽所有的家長都已經被新聞嚇到了目前的話循線去追了有59批那其中有30幾批是已經合格的那有差不多將近10批是不合格另外還在檢驗中的大概目前還剩下9\n\n01:44.116 --> 02:06.891\n所以我們國家應該要讓人民食無不安國家應該要讓人民食無不安可是這幾天全國是寢食難安所以我們現在一起來檢驗檢討我們到底哪一方面可以繼續一起努力這個是衛福部食安週報寫的他說我們要去驗所有農產品的農藥量\n\n02:07.992 --> 02:25.923\n餐油量是因為只要符合法定標準就不會對人體產生危害換言之假使超過了法定標準就會對人體產生危害所以這個是衛福部食藥署教育我們全體人民的但知道最近我們有多少進口的水果驗出農藥嗎\n\n02:30.070 --> 02:53.605\n有一些日本的因為日本他們在種植草莓的時候那事實上他會使用我們國內沒有用的所以我們過去這兩年其實被我們邊境查獲退掉或是銷毀的高達快要100次的這個草莓其中都是驗出比如說亞昆蠻、亞滅培等等\n\n02:56.516 --> 03:18.636\n福尼安等等的農藥這個您同意嗎是那有這樣子的不合格的原因好所以我們今年1月9號的時候食藥署印起來他正式對日本說請未來呢送來台灣的草莓都一定要符合台灣的法規所以暫停五家業者輸入一個月好大家注意這個時間1月9號\n\n03:22.216 --> 03:36.120\n但再來呢1月24號卻封向180度的轉變1月24號食藥署預告我們全國人民說我們即將修正日本進口這個草莓農藥的殘留容許標準請問在這15天我們的\n\n03:42.302 --> 04:11.465\n行政流程啊、邏輯上是有什麼樣的觀念呢?這個修正農藥殘留的容許標準這件事情的話是之前更早的話他們就已經申請了那這個申請的案子我們就必須要去處理所以我們就提出預告那可以請部長稍微告訴我們大家像這樣子的草莓1月9號以前是不能吃的1月24號以後是可以吃的嗎?\n\n04:12.182 --> 04:13.562\n請問兩位是如何訂出這個標準的這個新標準\n\n04:32.957 --> 04:40.024\n這個是必須要參考我們專家的一些意見來定出來的以及說國際的一些表現我只能推論說也許在這15天我們選舉啊或者是外交啊像有什麼重大的突破因此讓我們1月9號跟1月24號對於草莓是不是全國人民可以安心吃的認定已經不一樣了我們來看一下\n\n04:57.919 --> 05:14.377\n其實呢兩位在112年去年就已經為了這個農藥召開了至少三次會議喔我們發現有個福尼安好我們本來是零減出但是呢後來遵守歐盟這個標準所以我們稍微要把他提高對吧\n\n05:16.272 --> 05:32.390\n我們再來看另外三個您開放的不管是雅庫蘭克派凡、滅分作我們本來是零檢出但是Codex也是零檢出歐盟也是零檢出為何我們這三個就必須要去遵照日本的標準呢?\n\n05:34.132 --> 05:45.823\n這當然還是要經過最後的審查是,所以您跟署長會在未來正式通過這些草苺以前會預告我們全國人民為何我們會做出這樣子的決策嗎?\n\n05:47.618 --> 06:14.169\n目前就是在預告的過程當中我們收集各方的一些意見那最後的話還是會由專家會議來做決定那看起來我們的橫向溝通也出了問題因為如果依照我們新的標準我們進口草苺有農藥不會依照食安法開法但我們國內的農民如果有用了以下這四種農藥的話是會依照農業管理法處罰的\n\n06:16.310 --> 06:35.924\n進口跟國產的本來就這個標準不是完全一致的所以最後幫大家結論一下因為您曾經說我們可以拿來宣傳國內的草莓嗎對啊所以如果我們國產草莓是沒有這類的農藥你大可以大大方方去做宣傳\n\n06:37.120 --> 06:37.801\n昨天剛好我又在賣場\n\n07:06.624 --> 07:10.145\n這是我們有公布違規的一些批號那這些違規的批號一定要先下架\n\n07:32.435 --> 07:50.716\n那現在你們會餵叫我們全國的人民這些是否還能吃嗎?如果家裡還有的或是昨天賣場還有買到的?這部分我們會公布出來那這些違規的批號那海底撈就必須要接受民眾的退貨\n\n07:52.197 --> 08:15.071\n剛有提到說其實第一次查驗到蘇丹紅已經是前年的事情了但是呢我們去年12月才開始逐批查驗一直到今年才限制他繼續進口我想問一下其實我們這樣拖了整整兩年國人吃下肚已經非常多了對拖了一年\n\n08:16.652 --> 08:31.402\n請問這樣的流程是一種行政怠惰嗎?我跟委員稍微做一個解釋一開始在查辣椒粉是包括這個農藥還有一些可能是有中金屬等等這一類我們通通查\n\n08:32.282 --> 08:56.743\n那後來是才發現說在5月以後的話發現說這一個含有蘇丹紅的批號這個批次的比例是高的所以才逐步的把這個是但根據我查到的法規從第9條第10條第11條不管是第4款第5款其實當您認為有必要足以逐批查驗\n\n08:57.864 --> 08:57.904\n主席\n\n09:19.467 --> 09:20.007\n對象是辣椒粉\n\n09:34.232 --> 10:02.279\n那查驗的檢驗的這個項目裡面其實不合格大部分是農藥蘇丹紅是比較少數的但是當我們提高了這個比例之後才發現說蘇丹紅的比例所以意思是說當時你們不認為他是蓄意違法所以當時沒有逐漸調高抽驗的比例沒有沒有針對蘇丹紅去做這個提高管制的措施謝謝\n\n10:03.559 --> 10:03.739\n陳菁徽委員\n\n","segments":[{"start":7.475,"end":34.576,"text":"主席現場各位大家好我想邀請部長以及署長好部長署長請我們來一起討論大家知道臺灣其實經過統計我們有高達七成的人是外食族那是外食族的狀況下大家會對於這個食品的製造鏈其實比起其他國家是相當陌生的因此仰賴兩位長官為我們全民來把關是非常重要"},{"start":35.492,"end":45.594,"text":"但剛剛部長有提到說您覺得到現在源頭都還有一點不清楚所以您覺得食安五環是哪一環目前問題最大呢?"},{"start":47.151,"end":71.18,"text":"其實就這個事件來講的話並沒有說源頭不清楚因為我們已經把21家的這個中國進口的廠商那已經禁止他進口了所以現在在追的就是還沒有100%抽菸之前有一些就有一些可能是有進來那我們是在循線來追蹤這些"},{"start":73.041,"end":101.174,"text":"那不知道兩位長官是否有信心我們今年大概幾月大家可以不用再恐慌因為這個週末所有的媽媽所有的家長都已經被新聞嚇到了目前的話循線去追了有59批那其中有30幾批是已經合格的那有差不多將近10批是不合格另外還在檢驗中的大概目前還剩下9"},{"start":104.116,"end":126.891,"text":"所以我們國家應該要讓人民食無不安國家應該要讓人民食無不安可是這幾天全國是寢食難安所以我們現在一起來檢驗檢討我們到底哪一方面可以繼續一起努力這個是衛福部食安週報寫的他說我們要去驗所有農產品的農藥量"},{"start":127.992,"end":145.923,"text":"餐油量是因為只要符合法定標準就不會對人體產生危害換言之假使超過了法定標準就會對人體產生危害所以這個是衛福部食藥署教育我們全體人民的但知道最近我們有多少進口的水果驗出農藥嗎"},{"start":150.07,"end":173.605,"text":"有一些日本的因為日本他們在種植草莓的時候那事實上他會使用我們國內沒有用的所以我們過去這兩年其實被我們邊境查獲退掉或是銷毀的高達快要100次的這個草莓其中都是驗出比如說亞昆蠻、亞滅培等等"},{"start":176.516,"end":198.636,"text":"福尼安等等的農藥這個您同意嗎是那有這樣子的不合格的原因好所以我們今年1月9號的時候食藥署印起來他正式對日本說請未來呢送來台灣的草莓都一定要符合台灣的法規所以暫停五家業者輸入一個月好大家注意這個時間1月9號"},{"start":202.216,"end":216.12,"text":"但再來呢1月24號卻封向180度的轉變1月24號食藥署預告我們全國人民說我們即將修正日本進口這個草莓農藥的殘留容許標準請問在這15天我們的"},{"start":222.302,"end":251.465,"text":"行政流程啊、邏輯上是有什麼樣的觀念呢?這個修正農藥殘留的容許標準這件事情的話是之前更早的話他們就已經申請了那這個申請的案子我們就必須要去處理所以我們就提出預告那可以請部長稍微告訴我們大家像這樣子的草莓1月9號以前是不能吃的1月24號以後是可以吃的嗎?"},{"start":252.182,"end":253.562,"text":"請問兩位是如何訂出這個標準的這個新標準"},{"start":272.957,"end":280.024,"text":"這個是必須要參考我們專家的一些意見來定出來的以及說國際的一些表現我只能推論說也許在這15天我們選舉啊或者是外交啊像有什麼重大的突破因此讓我們1月9號跟1月24號對於草莓是不是全國人民可以安心吃的認定已經不一樣了我們來看一下"},{"start":297.919,"end":314.377,"text":"其實呢兩位在112年去年就已經為了這個農藥召開了至少三次會議喔我們發現有個福尼安好我們本來是零減出但是呢後來遵守歐盟這個標準所以我們稍微要把他提高對吧"},{"start":316.272,"end":332.39,"text":"我們再來看另外三個您開放的不管是雅庫蘭克派凡、滅分作我們本來是零檢出但是Codex也是零檢出歐盟也是零檢出為何我們這三個就必須要去遵照日本的標準呢?"},{"start":334.132,"end":345.823,"text":"這當然還是要經過最後的審查是,所以您跟署長會在未來正式通過這些草苺以前會預告我們全國人民為何我們會做出這樣子的決策嗎?"},{"start":347.618,"end":374.169,"text":"目前就是在預告的過程當中我們收集各方的一些意見那最後的話還是會由專家會議來做決定那看起來我們的橫向溝通也出了問題因為如果依照我們新的標準我們進口草苺有農藥不會依照食安法開法但我們國內的農民如果有用了以下這四種農藥的話是會依照農業管理法處罰的"},{"start":376.31,"end":395.924,"text":"進口跟國產的本來就這個標準不是完全一致的所以最後幫大家結論一下因為您曾經說我們可以拿來宣傳國內的草莓嗎對啊所以如果我們國產草莓是沒有這類的農藥你大可以大大方方去做宣傳"},{"start":397.12,"end":397.801,"text":"昨天剛好我又在賣場"},{"start":426.624,"end":430.145,"text":"這是我們有公布違規的一些批號那這些違規的批號一定要先下架"},{"start":452.435,"end":470.716,"text":"那現在你們會餵叫我們全國的人民這些是否還能吃嗎?如果家裡還有的或是昨天賣場還有買到的?這部分我們會公布出來那這些違規的批號那海底撈就必須要接受民眾的退貨"},{"start":472.197,"end":495.071,"text":"剛有提到說其實第一次查驗到蘇丹紅已經是前年的事情了但是呢我們去年12月才開始逐批查驗一直到今年才限制他繼續進口我想問一下其實我們這樣拖了整整兩年國人吃下肚已經非常多了對拖了一年"},{"start":496.652,"end":511.402,"text":"請問這樣的流程是一種行政怠惰嗎?我跟委員稍微做一個解釋一開始在查辣椒粉是包括這個農藥還有一些可能是有中金屬等等這一類我們通通查"},{"start":512.282,"end":536.743,"text":"那後來是才發現說在5月以後的話發現說這一個含有蘇丹紅的批號這個批次的比例是高的所以才逐步的把這個是但根據我查到的法規從第9條第10條第11條不管是第4款第5款其實當您認為有必要足以逐批查驗"},{"start":537.864,"end":537.904,"text":"主席"},{"start":559.467,"end":560.007,"text":"對象是辣椒粉"},{"start":574.232,"end":602.279,"text":"那查驗的檢驗的這個項目裡面其實不合格大部分是農藥蘇丹紅是比較少數的但是當我們提高了這個比例之後才發現說蘇丹紅的比例所以意思是說當時你們不認為他是蓄意違法所以當時沒有逐漸調高抽驗的比例沒有沒有針對蘇丹紅去做這個提高管制的措施謝謝"},{"start":603.559,"end":603.739,"text":"陳菁徽委員"}]}}}}