{"id":149185,"url":"https://ivod.ly.gov.tw/Play/Clip/1M/149185","video_url":"https://ivod-lyvod.cdn.hinet.net/vod_1/_definst_/mp4:1MClips/ad9f873b941d2dddc788eedffdc87af6faa0e83a28976539f8ba9b0039caa7a6b62c4ba8584081235ea18f28b6918d91.mp4/playlist.m3u8","委員名稱":"黃健豪","委員發言時間":"09:20:52 - 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啊！丙等是0，如果從我這邊的數字來看，從108年到112年，基本上，臺灣的道路好像品質都很好，甲等的從65%提升到86%，快要到九成了，但是去年還有一個數字，去年我國的車禍死傷人數，其中騎機車自摔的人數就將近有4萬，當然自摔有很多種情況、有很多種情境，有一種是酒駕，扣掉酒駕之後，其實有很多道路自摔，你如果從警察局調閱資料，因為我是從議員出身，我們調閱很多相關資料，很多自摔案件是來自於道路不平整、道路水溝蓋不平整等等的原因導致他自摔，所以你看去年的道安統計裡面，有這麼多機車騎士是因為道路不平整而導致自摔的結果發生，但是我們回過頭來看，工程會在評鑑全國各地方的道路、主要道路的時候，丙等的道路居然是0，我想丙等道路是0這件事情，我覺得在民眾的觀感上，在真實的社會上是有一定的問題的，所以我想工程會要去檢討的是，如果道路都是甲等的，如果真的是這樣，那當然是我國的榮耀，但實務上，工程會在評鑑的過程裡面到底怎麼去執行？是使用後去驗收的過程裡面真的沒問題？還是驗收前是一回事，但是使用後發現這個道路真的會遇到下雨、遇到重車壓完之後，它反而會變得凹凸不平，所以導致道安的結果是這麼多人自摔，所以這部分我希望工程會在評鑑上要更加落實，謝謝。"],["吳主任委員澤成：評鑑的結果要跟實際吻合。"],["黃委員健豪：對啊！這就是我們希望的，希望工程會能夠更確實去做到這件事情。"],["吳主任委員澤成：我們會注意。"],["黃委員健豪：好，謝謝。"],["主席：謝謝黃健豪委員發言。接下來邀請廖先翔委員質詢。"]],"agenda":{"page_end":254,"meet_id":"委員會-11-1-23-2","speakers":["李昆澤","林沛祥","黃健豪","廖先翔","徐富癸","林國成","林俊憲","魯明哲","何欣純","陳素月","邱若華","游顥","蔡其昌","許智傑","陳俊宇","邱志偉"],"page_start":211,"meetingDate":["2024-03-04"],"gazette_id":"1130901","agenda_lcidc_ids":["1130901_00004"],"meet_name":"立法院第11屆第1會期交通委員會第2次全體委員會議紀錄","content":"邀請行政院公共工程委員會主任委員吳澤成列席報告業務概況，並備質詢","agenda_id":"1130901_00003"}},"transcript":{"id":"149185","pyannote":{"name":"ronny","tool":"pyannote","data":{"url":"https://ivod.ly.gov.tw/Play/Clip/1M/149185","tool":"pyannote","id":"149185-pyannote"},"job_id":"ID3DiYEbTsGrHCMi","queued_at":"2024-06-02 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454.099, \"end\": 454.299, \"score\": 0.887}, {\"word\": \"任\", \"start\": 454.299, \"end\": 454.319, \"score\": 0.0}, {\"word\": \"委\", \"start\": 454.319, \"end\": 454.339, \"score\": 0.0}, {\"word\": \"員\"}, {\"word\": \"長\"}, {\"word\": \"本\", \"start\": 507.142, \"end\": 507.17, \"score\": 0.0}, {\"word\": \"集\", \"start\": 507.17, \"end\": 507.199, \"score\": 0.0}, {\"word\": \"完\", \"start\": 507.199, \"end\": 507.227, \"score\": 0.0}], \"language\": \"zh\"}","srt":"1\n00:00:01,471 --> 00:00:01,731\n吳主委\n\n2\n00:00:11,590 --> 00:00:37,311\n委員你好主委好主委有幫忙感謝公共工程會長期在臺灣的工程界跟物價的波動上面取到穩定的作用但我讓今天我看到專案報告的首要的最終的業務當然提到了所謂的政府採購法那大概有幾件事情我想就教一下我們主委政府採購法的第4條第一項裡面提到這個法人或團體接受機關補助辦理採購\n\n3\n00:00:39,272 --> 00:01:02,892\n那這個補助金額佔採購金額半數以上的話﹖他其實是適用這個政府採購法的規定有這一條嗎?對好主委那我們大家請教一下這個去年喔鬧得沸沸揚揚的這個雞蛋的採購案其中涉及的單位就是這個續產會那續產會對外採購是否合法在當初的新聞裡面我們看到一句話我說他今天特別來這個來詢問來質詢\n\n4\n00:01:06,174 --> 00:01:28,103\n當初續產會跟農民部有特別來洽詢過我們這個公共工程委員會來確認說他到底適不適用這個採購法那這個工程會當初的回應是指說這個續產會他是屬於這個法人但是我們的這個採購法只適用於機關那我們就要問了在續產會這案子上面\n\n5\n00:01:31,225 --> 00:01:57,958\n續產會的這個案子上面他的這個定位是法人還是機關是由誰來認定在法令上面採購法有採購法的規定那扁會是針對採購法來做解釋另外民團法有民團法的這個這個他的法令的依據所以這個部分是由他們來這個解釋所以解釋機關是誰\n\n6\n00:01:59,138 --> 00:01:59,459\n當該案的主管機關\n\n7\n00:02:04,665 --> 00:02:27,039\n所以續產會是機關還是法人是由誰認定是農業部認定還是公共工程會認定那公共工程會不就是可是公共工程會如果負責採購法的話你們應該是採購法的主管機關吧那採購機關主管機關如果你是主管機關為什麼不是由你們來認定如果你們要放棄這樣的權利為什麼今天要特別提這個事情因為續產會的這個資金結構裡面來看的話\n\n8\n00:02:31,539 --> 00:02:52,444\n還要提到這個工程會為什麼是法的而不是機關是因為他以自有資金購買財物不是用這個採購法但是本席翻閱了這個中華民國相關的所有的法令在相關的採購法裡面其實我沒有看到這個自有資金啊自有資金的法定的定義到底是什麼\n\n9\n00:02:54,728 --> 00:03:17,581\n這個部分看起來在所謂自有資金的認定上面有一些大家看法的不同那既然不同的話為什麼他可以認定在這個預算審查會議的時候由委員提出來要我們採購法也去做一個檢討好這個一定會提出來檢討啦因為你看喔續產會這個當初去買這個單的時候他是從農業金庫借來這個15億齁\n\n10\n00:03:23,424 --> 00:03:38,557\n這農業金庫竟然15億他把他當成所謂的自有資金但是農業金庫的錢哪裡來的農業金庫的錢也是來自於中央政府的補助啊所以農業金庫的錢等於也是政府的錢等於也是人民納稅錢\n\n11\n00:03:39,844 --> 00:03:39,864\n韓國瑜\n\n12\n00:04:03,556 --> 00:04:03,696\n主委\n\n13\n00:04:30,649 --> 00:04:57,237\n對這個部分就變成這個自由資金來源是從這個個案還是從他整體的東西的認定那這個部分上一次在預算審查會議委員會委員有提出建立我現在正在檢討當中那你們檢討的因為已經把它做一個釐清到底是從個案還是從整體性來看你們這個檢討的這個時間點就到底什麼時候會提出一個比較完整的\n\n14\n00:04:58,697 --> 00:05:25,884\n的說法我們現在正在進行這個東西我還要邀請相關的機關來探討你有時間表嗎主委你有時間表這個會期會有嗎對於自由資金怎麼認定對於像相關我提到的這個任何一個法人或任何的社團接受政府的捐助他就不受工程會不受採購法的這個適用這個檢討什麼時候會有我盡量在這個會期盡量\n\n15\n00:05:28,580 --> 00:05:54,978\n主委那我記得了這會議記錄這個會期好主委謝謝這是第一個我希望說工程會還是要提出相關的說法跟版本啦要強化政府採購法的監督不然如果以後每一個單位都給你捐助一個法人出來然後讓他自由的採購完全不受政府採購法的監督的話其實那等於整個預算法整個採購法就形同虛設了好主委那下一個部分時間不多剩20秒我要提一下\n\n16\n00:05:56,408 --> 00:06:21,988\n台灣的道路工程在這個工程會的評鑑裡面我們夾等的道路在去年喔去年全年度平等的道路是零原來台灣的道路品質這麼優良這麼優秀所以我想工程會在這個查核上面應該要更確實去落實說怎麼樣來查核這個道路品質因為我想這跟民眾的感受很大的落差去年查的幾乎都夾等欸\n\n17\n00:06:23,330 --> 00:06:31,165\n沒有冰凍的欸可是我想到這個地方上很多道路其實是非常不優惠不離我倆的道路狀況啊86%對啊86%啊但還有剩下你說什麼都86%\n\n18\n00:06:34,787 --> 00:06:35,728\n委員會主任委員會主任委員會主任委員會主任\n\n19\n00:06:53,490 --> 00:07:10,207\n去年我國的車禍死傷人數其中自摔的人數就將近有4萬機車自摔的4萬當然自摔有很多種情況有種情境有種大概是酒駕那扣掉酒駕之後其實有很多道路自摔你如果從警察局掉一隻腳因為我從義援出生的\n\n20\n00:07:10,808 --> 00:07:33,299\n我們調閱很多相關資料,很多的自摔案件是來自於說道路不平整道路這個水溝蓋不平整等等的原因導致他自摔所以你看去年的這個道安統計裡面有這麼多機車騎士是因為道路不平整導致自摔的這個結果發生但是我們回過來看工程會在評鑑全國各地方的道路主要道路的時候\n\n21\n00:07:34,079 --> 00:07:34,339\n委員會主任委員長\n\n22\n00:08:27,142 --> 00:08:27,227\n本集完\n\n","tsv":"start\tend\ttext\n1471\t1731\t吳主委\n11590\t37311\t委員你好主委好 主委有幫忙感謝公共工程會長期在臺灣的工程界跟物價的波動上面 取到穩定的作用但我讓今天我看到專案報告的首要的最終的業務當然提到了所謂的政府採購法那大概有幾件事情我想就教一下我們主委政府採購法的第4條第一項裡面提到 這個法人或團體接受機關補助辦理採購\n39272\t62892\t那這個補助金額佔採購金額半數以上的話﹖他其實是適用這個政府採購法的規定有這一條嗎?對好主委那我們大家請教一下這個去年喔鬧得沸沸揚揚的這個雞蛋的採購案其中涉及的單位就是這個續產會那續產會對外採購是否合法在當初的新聞裡面我們看到一句話我說他今天特別來這個來詢問來質詢\n66174\t88103\t當初續產會跟農民部有特別來洽詢過我們這個公共工程委員會來確認說他到底適不適用這個採購法那這個工程會當初的回應是指說這個續產會他是屬於這個法人但是我們的這個採購法只適用於機關那我們就要問了在續產會這案子上面\n91225\t117958\t續產會的這個案子上面他的這個定位是法人還是機關是由誰來認定在法令上面採購法有採購法的規定那扁會是針對採購法來做解釋另外民團法有民團法的這個這個他的法令的依據所以這個部分是由他們來這個解釋所以解釋機關是誰\n119138\t119459\t當該案的主管機關\n124665\t147039\t所以續產會是機關還是法人是由誰認定是農業部認定還是公共工程會認定那公共工程會不就是可是公共工程會如果負責採購法的話你們應該是採購法的主管機關吧那採購機關主管機關如果你是主管機關為什麼不是由你們來認定如果你們要放棄這樣的權利為什麼今天要特別提這個事情因為續產會的這個資金結構裡面來看的話\n151539\t172444\t還要提到這個工程會為什麼是法的而不是機關是因為他以自有資金購買財物不是用這個採購法但是本席翻閱了這個中華民國相關的所有的法令在相關的採購法裡面其實我沒有看到這個自有資金啊自有資金的法定的定義到底是什麼\n174728\t197581\t這個部分看起來在所謂自有資金的認定上面有一些大家看法的不同那既然不同的話為什麼他可以認定在這個預算審查會議的時候由委員提出來要我們採購法也去做一個檢討好這個一定會提出來檢討啦因為你看喔續產會這個當初去買這個單的時候他是從農業金庫借來這個15億齁\n203424\t218557\t這農業金庫竟然15億他把他當成所謂的自有資金但是農業金庫的錢哪裡來的農業金庫的錢也是來自於中央政府的補助啊所以農業金庫的錢等於也是政府的錢等於也是人民納稅錢\n219844\t219864\t韓國瑜\n243556\t243696\t主委\n270649\t297237\t對 這個部分就變成這個自由資金來源是從這個個案還是從他整體的東西的認定那這個部分上一次在預算審查會議委員會委員有提出建立我現在正在檢討當中那你們檢討的因為已經 把它做一個釐清到底是從個案還是從整體性來看你們這個檢討的這個時間點就到底什麼時候會提出一個比較完整的\n298697\t325884\t的說法我們現在正在進行這個東西我還要邀請相關的機關來探討你有時間表嗎主委你有時間表這個會期會有嗎對於自由資金怎麼認定對於像相關我提到的這個任何一個法人或任何的社團接受政府的捐助他就不受工程會不受採購法的這個適用這個檢討什麼時候會有我盡量在這個會期盡量\n328580\t354978\t主委那我記得了這會議記錄這個會期好主委謝謝這是第一個我希望說工程會還是要提出相關的說法跟版本啦要強化政府採購法的監督不然如果以後每一個單位都給你捐助一個法人出來然後讓他自由的採購完全不受政府採購法的監督的話其實那等於整個預算法整個採購法就形同虛設了好主委那下一個部分時間不多剩20秒我要提一下\n356408\t381988\t台灣的道路工程在這個工程會的評鑑裡面我們夾等的道路在去年喔去年全年度平等的道路是零原來台灣的道路品質這麼優良這麼優秀所以我想工程會在這個查核上面應該要更確實去落實說怎麼樣來查核這個道路品質因為我想這跟民眾的感受很大的落差去年查的幾乎都夾等欸\n383330\t391165\t沒有冰凍的欸可是我想到這個地方上很多道路其實是非常不優惠不離我倆的道路狀況啊86%對啊86%啊但還有剩下你說什麼都86%\n394787\t395728\t委員會主任委員會主任委員會主任委員會主任\n413490\t430207\t去年我國的車禍死傷人數其中自摔的人數就將近有4萬機車自摔的4萬當然自摔有很多種情況有種情境有種大概是酒駕那扣掉酒駕之後其實有很多道路自摔你如果從警察局掉一隻腳因為我從義援出生的\n430808\t453299\t我們調閱很多相關資料,很多的自摔案件是來自於說道路不平整道路這個水溝蓋不平整等等的原因導致他自摔所以你看去年的這個道安統計裡面有這麼多機車騎士是因為道路不平整導致自摔的這個結果發生但是我們回過來看工程會在評鑑全國各地方的道路主要道路的時候\n454079\t454339\t委員會主任委員長\n477142\t507142\t﹗\n507142\t507227\t本集完\n","txt":"吳主委\n委員你好主委好 主委有幫忙感謝公共工程會長期在臺灣的工程界跟物價的波動上面 取到穩定的作用但我讓今天我看到專案報告的首要的最終的業務當然提到了所謂的政府採購法那大概有幾件事情我想就教一下我們主委政府採購法的第4條第一項裡面提到 這個法人或團體接受機關補助辦理採購\n那這個補助金額佔採購金額半數以上的話﹖他其實是適用這個政府採購法的規定有這一條嗎?對好主委那我們大家請教一下這個去年喔鬧得沸沸揚揚的這個雞蛋的採購案其中涉及的單位就是這個續產會那續產會對外採購是否合法在當初的新聞裡面我們看到一句話我說他今天特別來這個來詢問來質詢\n當初續產會跟農民部有特別來洽詢過我們這個公共工程委員會來確認說他到底適不適用這個採購法那這個工程會當初的回應是指說這個續產會他是屬於這個法人但是我們的這個採購法只適用於機關那我們就要問了在續產會這案子上面\n續產會的這個案子上面他的這個定位是法人還是機關是由誰來認定在法令上面採購法有採購法的規定那扁會是針對採購法來做解釋另外民團法有民團法的這個這個他的法令的依據所以這個部分是由他們來這個解釋所以解釋機關是誰\n當該案的主管機關\n所以續產會是機關還是法人是由誰認定是農業部認定還是公共工程會認定那公共工程會不就是可是公共工程會如果負責採購法的話你們應該是採購法的主管機關吧那採購機關主管機關如果你是主管機關為什麼不是由你們來認定如果你們要放棄這樣的權利為什麼今天要特別提這個事情因為續產會的這個資金結構裡面來看的話\n還要提到這個工程會為什麼是法的而不是機關是因為他以自有資金購買財物不是用這個採購法但是本席翻閱了這個中華民國相關的所有的法令在相關的採購法裡面其實我沒有看到這個自有資金啊自有資金的法定的定義到底是什麼\n這個部分看起來在所謂自有資金的認定上面有一些大家看法的不同那既然不同的話為什麼他可以認定在這個預算審查會議的時候由委員提出來要我們採購法也去做一個檢討好這個一定會提出來檢討啦因為你看喔續產會這個當初去買這個單的時候他是從農業金庫借來這個15億齁\n這農業金庫竟然15億他把他當成所謂的自有資金但是農業金庫的錢哪裡來的農業金庫的錢也是來自於中央政府的補助啊所以農業金庫的錢等於也是政府的錢等於也是人民納稅錢\n韓國瑜\n主委\n對 這個部分就變成這個自由資金來源是從這個個案還是從他整體的東西的認定那這個部分上一次在預算審查會議委員會委員有提出建立我現在正在檢討當中那你們檢討的因為已經 把它做一個釐清到底是從個案還是從整體性來看你們這個檢討的這個時間點就到底什麼時候會提出一個比較完整的\n的說法我們現在正在進行這個東西我還要邀請相關的機關來探討你有時間表嗎主委你有時間表這個會期會有嗎對於自由資金怎麼認定對於像相關我提到的這個任何一個法人或任何的社團接受政府的捐助他就不受工程會不受採購法的這個適用這個檢討什麼時候會有我盡量在這個會期盡量\n主委那我記得了這會議記錄這個會期好主委謝謝這是第一個我希望說工程會還是要提出相關的說法跟版本啦要強化政府採購法的監督不然如果以後每一個單位都給你捐助一個法人出來然後讓他自由的採購完全不受政府採購法的監督的話其實那等於整個預算法整個採購法就形同虛設了好主委那下一個部分時間不多剩20秒我要提一下\n台灣的道路工程在這個工程會的評鑑裡面我們夾等的道路在去年喔去年全年度平等的道路是零原來台灣的道路品質這麼優良這麼優秀所以我想工程會在這個查核上面應該要更確實去落實說怎麼樣來查核這個道路品質因為我想這跟民眾的感受很大的落差去年查的幾乎都夾等欸\n沒有冰凍的欸可是我想到這個地方上很多道路其實是非常不優惠不離我倆的道路狀況啊86%對啊86%啊但還有剩下你說什麼都86%\n委員會主任委員會主任委員會主任委員會主任\n去年我國的車禍死傷人數其中自摔的人數就將近有4萬機車自摔的4萬當然自摔有很多種情況有種情境有種大概是酒駕那扣掉酒駕之後其實有很多道路自摔你如果從警察局掉一隻腳因為我從義援出生的\n我們調閱很多相關資料,很多的自摔案件是來自於說道路不平整道路這個水溝蓋不平整等等的原因導致他自摔所以你看去年的這個道安統計裡面有這麼多機車騎士是因為道路不平整導致自摔的這個結果發生但是我們回過來看工程會在評鑑全國各地方的道路主要道路的時候\n委員會主任委員長\n﹗\n本集完\n","vtt":"WEBVTT\n\n00:01.471 --> 00:01.731\n吳主委\n\n00:11.590 --> 00:37.311\n委員你好主委好主委有幫忙感謝公共工程會長期在臺灣的工程界跟物價的波動上面取到穩定的作用但我讓今天我看到專案報告的首要的最終的業務當然提到了所謂的政府採購法那大概有幾件事情我想就教一下我們主委政府採購法的第4條第一項裡面提到這個法人或團體接受機關補助辦理採購\n\n00:39.272 --> 01:02.892\n那這個補助金額佔採購金額半數以上的話﹖他其實是適用這個政府採購法的規定有這一條嗎?對好主委那我們大家請教一下這個去年喔鬧得沸沸揚揚的這個雞蛋的採購案其中涉及的單位就是這個續產會那續產會對外採購是否合法在當初的新聞裡面我們看到一句話我說他今天特別來這個來詢問來質詢\n\n01:06.174 --> 01:28.103\n當初續產會跟農民部有特別來洽詢過我們這個公共工程委員會來確認說他到底適不適用這個採購法那這個工程會當初的回應是指說這個續產會他是屬於這個法人但是我們的這個採購法只適用於機關那我們就要問了在續產會這案子上面\n\n01:31.225 --> 01:57.958\n續產會的這個案子上面他的這個定位是法人還是機關是由誰來認定在法令上面採購法有採購法的規定那扁會是針對採購法來做解釋另外民團法有民團法的這個這個他的法令的依據所以這個部分是由他們來這個解釋所以解釋機關是誰\n\n01:59.138 --> 01:59.459\n當該案的主管機關\n\n02:04.665 --> 02:27.039\n所以續產會是機關還是法人是由誰認定是農業部認定還是公共工程會認定那公共工程會不就是可是公共工程會如果負責採購法的話你們應該是採購法的主管機關吧那採購機關主管機關如果你是主管機關為什麼不是由你們來認定如果你們要放棄這樣的權利為什麼今天要特別提這個事情因為續產會的這個資金結構裡面來看的話\n\n02:31.539 --> 02:52.444\n還要提到這個工程會為什麼是法的而不是機關是因為他以自有資金購買財物不是用這個採購法但是本席翻閱了這個中華民國相關的所有的法令在相關的採購法裡面其實我沒有看到這個自有資金啊自有資金的法定的定義到底是什麼\n\n02:54.728 --> 03:17.581\n這個部分看起來在所謂自有資金的認定上面有一些大家看法的不同那既然不同的話為什麼他可以認定在這個預算審查會議的時候由委員提出來要我們採購法也去做一個檢討好這個一定會提出來檢討啦因為你看喔續產會這個當初去買這個單的時候他是從農業金庫借來這個15億齁\n\n03:23.424 --> 03:38.557\n這農業金庫竟然15億他把他當成所謂的自有資金但是農業金庫的錢哪裡來的農業金庫的錢也是來自於中央政府的補助啊所以農業金庫的錢等於也是政府的錢等於也是人民納稅錢\n\n03:39.844 --> 03:39.864\n韓國瑜\n\n04:03.556 --> 04:03.696\n主委\n\n04:30.649 --> 04:57.237\n對這個部分就變成這個自由資金來源是從這個個案還是從他整體的東西的認定那這個部分上一次在預算審查會議委員會委員有提出建立我現在正在檢討當中那你們檢討的因為已經把它做一個釐清到底是從個案還是從整體性來看你們這個檢討的這個時間點就到底什麼時候會提出一個比較完整的\n\n04:58.697 --> 05:25.884\n的說法我們現在正在進行這個東西我還要邀請相關的機關來探討你有時間表嗎主委你有時間表這個會期會有嗎對於自由資金怎麼認定對於像相關我提到的這個任何一個法人或任何的社團接受政府的捐助他就不受工程會不受採購法的這個適用這個檢討什麼時候會有我盡量在這個會期盡量\n\n05:28.580 --> 05:54.978\n主委那我記得了這會議記錄這個會期好主委謝謝這是第一個我希望說工程會還是要提出相關的說法跟版本啦要強化政府採購法的監督不然如果以後每一個單位都給你捐助一個法人出來然後讓他自由的採購完全不受政府採購法的監督的話其實那等於整個預算法整個採購法就形同虛設了好主委那下一個部分時間不多剩20秒我要提一下\n\n05:56.408 --> 06:21.988\n台灣的道路工程在這個工程會的評鑑裡面我們夾等的道路在去年喔去年全年度平等的道路是零原來台灣的道路品質這麼優良這麼優秀所以我想工程會在這個查核上面應該要更確實去落實說怎麼樣來查核這個道路品質因為我想這跟民眾的感受很大的落差去年查的幾乎都夾等欸\n\n06:23.330 --> 06:31.165\n沒有冰凍的欸可是我想到這個地方上很多道路其實是非常不優惠不離我倆的道路狀況啊86%對啊86%啊但還有剩下你說什麼都86%\n\n06:34.787 --> 06:35.728\n委員會主任委員會主任委員會主任委員會主任\n\n06:53.490 --> 07:10.207\n去年我國的車禍死傷人數其中自摔的人數就將近有4萬機車自摔的4萬當然自摔有很多種情況有種情境有種大概是酒駕那扣掉酒駕之後其實有很多道路自摔你如果從警察局掉一隻腳因為我從義援出生的\n\n07:10.808 --> 07:33.299\n我們調閱很多相關資料,很多的自摔案件是來自於說道路不平整道路這個水溝蓋不平整等等的原因導致他自摔所以你看去年的這個道安統計裡面有這麼多機車騎士是因為道路不平整導致自摔的這個結果發生但是我們回過來看工程會在評鑑全國各地方的道路主要道路的時候\n\n07:34.079 --> 07:34.339\n委員會主任委員長\n\n08:27.142 --> 08:27.227\n本集完\n\n","segments":[{"start":1.471,"end":1.731,"text":"吳主委"},{"start":11.59,"end":37.311,"text":"委員你好主委好 主委有幫忙感謝公共工程會長期在臺灣的工程界跟物價的波動上面 取到穩定的作用但我讓今天我看到專案報告的首要的最終的業務當然提到了所謂的政府採購法那大概有幾件事情我想就教一下我們主委政府採購法的第4條第一項裡面提到 這個法人或團體接受機關補助辦理採購"},{"start":39.272,"end":62.892,"text":"那這個補助金額佔採購金額半數以上的話﹖他其實是適用這個政府採購法的規定有這一條嗎?對好主委那我們大家請教一下這個去年喔鬧得沸沸揚揚的這個雞蛋的採購案其中涉及的單位就是這個續產會那續產會對外採購是否合法在當初的新聞裡面我們看到一句話我說他今天特別來這個來詢問來質詢"},{"start":66.174,"end":88.103,"text":"當初續產會跟農民部有特別來洽詢過我們這個公共工程委員會來確認說他到底適不適用這個採購法那這個工程會當初的回應是指說這個續產會他是屬於這個法人但是我們的這個採購法只適用於機關那我們就要問了在續產會這案子上面"},{"start":91.225,"end":117.958,"text":"續產會的這個案子上面他的這個定位是法人還是機關是由誰來認定在法令上面採購法有採購法的規定那扁會是針對採購法來做解釋另外民團法有民團法的這個這個他的法令的依據所以這個部分是由他們來這個解釋所以解釋機關是誰"},{"start":119.138,"end":119.459,"text":"當該案的主管機關"},{"start":124.665,"end":147.039,"text":"所以續產會是機關還是法人是由誰認定是農業部認定還是公共工程會認定那公共工程會不就是可是公共工程會如果負責採購法的話你們應該是採購法的主管機關吧那採購機關主管機關如果你是主管機關為什麼不是由你們來認定如果你們要放棄這樣的權利為什麼今天要特別提這個事情因為續產會的這個資金結構裡面來看的話"},{"start":151.539,"end":172.444,"text":"還要提到這個工程會為什麼是法的而不是機關是因為他以自有資金購買財物不是用這個採購法但是本席翻閱了這個中華民國相關的所有的法令在相關的採購法裡面其實我沒有看到這個自有資金啊自有資金的法定的定義到底是什麼"},{"start":174.728,"end":197.581,"text":"這個部分看起來在所謂自有資金的認定上面有一些大家看法的不同那既然不同的話為什麼他可以認定在這個預算審查會議的時候由委員提出來要我們採購法也去做一個檢討好這個一定會提出來檢討啦因為你看喔續產會這個當初去買這個單的時候他是從農業金庫借來這個15億齁"},{"start":203.424,"end":218.557,"text":"這農業金庫竟然15億他把他當成所謂的自有資金但是農業金庫的錢哪裡來的農業金庫的錢也是來自於中央政府的補助啊所以農業金庫的錢等於也是政府的錢等於也是人民納稅錢"},{"start":219.844,"end":219.864,"text":"韓國瑜"},{"start":243.556,"end":243.696,"text":"主委"},{"start":270.649,"end":297.237,"text":"對 這個部分就變成這個自由資金來源是從這個個案還是從他整體的東西的認定那這個部分上一次在預算審查會議委員會委員有提出建立我現在正在檢討當中那你們檢討的因為已經 把它做一個釐清到底是從個案還是從整體性來看你們這個檢討的這個時間點就到底什麼時候會提出一個比較完整的"},{"start":298.697,"end":325.884,"text":"的說法我們現在正在進行這個東西我還要邀請相關的機關來探討你有時間表嗎主委你有時間表這個會期會有嗎對於自由資金怎麼認定對於像相關我提到的這個任何一個法人或任何的社團接受政府的捐助他就不受工程會不受採購法的這個適用這個檢討什麼時候會有我盡量在這個會期盡量"},{"start":328.58,"end":354.978,"text":"主委那我記得了這會議記錄這個會期好主委謝謝這是第一個我希望說工程會還是要提出相關的說法跟版本啦要強化政府採購法的監督不然如果以後每一個單位都給你捐助一個法人出來然後讓他自由的採購完全不受政府採購法的監督的話其實那等於整個預算法整個採購法就形同虛設了好主委那下一個部分時間不多剩20秒我要提一下"},{"start":356.408,"end":381.988,"text":"台灣的道路工程在這個工程會的評鑑裡面我們夾等的道路在去年喔去年全年度平等的道路是零原來台灣的道路品質這麼優良這麼優秀所以我想工程會在這個查核上面應該要更確實去落實說怎麼樣來查核這個道路品質因為我想這跟民眾的感受很大的落差去年查的幾乎都夾等欸"},{"start":383.33,"end":391.165,"text":"沒有冰凍的欸可是我想到這個地方上很多道路其實是非常不優惠不離我倆的道路狀況啊86%對啊86%啊但還有剩下你說什麼都86%"},{"start":394.787,"end":395.728,"text":"委員會主任委員會主任委員會主任委員會主任"},{"start":413.49,"end":430.207,"text":"去年我國的車禍死傷人數其中自摔的人數就將近有4萬機車自摔的4萬當然自摔有很多種情況有種情境有種大概是酒駕那扣掉酒駕之後其實有很多道路自摔你如果從警察局掉一隻腳因為我從義援出生的"},{"start":430.808,"end":453.299,"text":"我們調閱很多相關資料,很多的自摔案件是來自於說道路不平整道路這個水溝蓋不平整等等的原因導致他自摔所以你看去年的這個道安統計裡面有這麼多機車騎士是因為道路不平整導致自摔的這個結果發生但是我們回過來看工程會在評鑑全國各地方的道路主要道路的時候"},{"start":454.079,"end":454.339,"text":"委員會主任委員長"},{"start":477.142,"end":507.142,"text":"﹗"},{"start":507.142,"end":507.227,"text":"本集完"}]}}}}