{"id":149189,"url":"https://ivod.ly.gov.tw/Play/Clip/1M/149189","video_url":"https://ivod-lyvod.cdn.hinet.net/vod_1/_definst_/mp4:1MClips/ad9f873b941d2dddecd36152c51bf004baff13691fd5102bf8ba9b0039caa7a6db89229dbbe34e855ea18f28b6918d91.mp4/playlist.m3u8","委員名稱":"洪孟楷","委員發言時間":"09:32:20 - 09:48:29","影片長度":"00:16:09","會議時間":"2024-03-04T09:00:00+08:00","會議名稱":"立法院第11屆第1會期教育及文化委員會第2次全體委員會議（事由：邀請教育部部長潘文忠列席報告業務概況，並備質詢。【3月4日及7日二天一次會】）","meet":{"tmpMeeting":null,"title":"第11屆第1會期教育及文化委員會第2次全體委員會議","term":11,"type":"委員會","sessionPeriod":1,"sessionTimes":2,"committees":[22],"id":"委員會-11-1-22-2"},"date":"2024-03-04","duration":969,"end_time":"2024-03-04T09:48:29+08:00","start_time":"2024-03-04T09:32:20+08:00","features":["ai-transcript","gazette"],"type":"Clip","gazette":{"lineno":122,"blocks":[["洪委員孟楷：（9時32分）主席謝謝，麻煩請潘部長。"],["主席：好，請潘部長。"],["潘部長文忠：委員早！"],["洪委員孟楷：部長早！部長，我想我們很多人在網路上昨天都有看到一個高中生，這個特教生在課堂上跟老師的一個衝突，部長有看到這個影片嗎？"],["潘部長文忠：是！我有看。"],["洪委員孟楷：兩段都有看？一段是5分鐘，一段是二分多鐘。"],["潘部長文忠：沒有，我看其中一個，因為同仁其實有把詳細的情形讓我知道。"],["洪委員孟楷：你什麼時候知道的？昨天？"],["潘部長文忠：應該是前天晚上。"],["洪委員孟楷：前天晚上？"],["潘部長文忠：對。"],["洪委員孟楷：好。在這一個過程裡面，當然一開始的時候老師有講到這個同學坐在第一排，後來這個同學就直接當著老師的面罵了五字經，然後動手，這些您都有看到嘛。我們現在就想要探討幾個比較重點的部分，普特融合的狀況現在上路，但是會不會這只是個案，還是這是通案？我想站在教育部長的立場，我先請教，對於這個老師的處置來講，您覺得可以嗎？"],["潘部長文忠：我跟委員報告，當然行為對象是我們特教的孩子……"],["洪委員孟楷：是。"],["潘部長文忠：也瞭解到他是在情緒這方面，從過往學校所瞭解到、掌握到的，他就是一個比較有這方面傾向，甚至有暴力攻擊的傾向，我想這是個案狀況，從這樣的情況所發生的師生衝突，我想確實跟一般孩子對老師就是採取……我覺得是比較不同的狀態。對於老師受到這方面的傷害，當然就是被攻擊啦！對於教育人員為了執行教學的過程受到這方面的傷害，我想這部分我們也表達非常大的遺憾跟關心，所以我想對於這一起衝突，當然臺北市教育局、學校在這兩天，我想委員也看到他們在處理的機制，但我也跟委員報告，普特融合已經是一個世界發展的趨勢，但是這個理念要落實，其實是要有相當大的資源跟投入來協助普特融合後，不管是對我們特教的孩子或在普通班進行教學的老師，才能夠落實這部分，否則師生面對這個挑戰是非常的大。"],["洪委員孟楷：部長，我想現在有兩個重點。第一，這個老師在被動之後，並沒有做任何再進一步的一個……不管是跟學生這樣的互動，在某種程度上，我看到這個老師其實是非常被動的，沒有讓自己陷入在更危險的一個狀況。有人就講，難道這個老師一開始不知道他是特教生嗎？這有沒有去瞭解？"],["潘部長文忠：委員，這部分我倒是沒有，因為這畢竟是日常，而且如果是常態的任教，應該會瞭解啦。"],["洪委員孟楷：所以現在就講當普特融合的時候，當一個班級裡面有特教生，過去有講是說避免標籤化，所以儘可能不要讓大家知道誰是特教生、誰不是特教生，但是連老師都不知道嗎？那這樣的話，對於第一線的教育工作者來講，他是不是就會沒有辦法掌握一個班級的現實狀況，反而造成這樣子危險的情況層出不窮？部長，你認為呢？"],["潘部長文忠：跟委員報告，如果是特教孩子，從IEP的評估都不是一個人、一個老師，那是學校一個team……"],["洪委員孟楷：是，我知道嘛！我現在是講如果說今天的狀況，大家會講這個老師可能一開始不知道他是特教生，也因此才會有好像上課被打擾的狀況嘛。我們現在講的是如果連第一線的教育工作者在普特融合的情況，他都不知道現場班級裡面哪一個是特教生、哪一個不是，是不是未來這樣子的狀況會層出不窮的發生？"],["潘部長文忠：我跟委員報告，因為這一個現在是……"],["洪委員孟楷：我們要不要避免第一線的教育工作者以後遭受這樣的暴力行為？"],["潘部長文忠：這個我跟委員報告，因為現在是這個學年度的第二學期……"],["洪委員孟楷：是！"],["潘部長文忠：學生應該不是突然在這個班級內啦！我剛才跟委員報告在學生的輔導上，IEP的評估工作本來就是一個team的概念，這不是秘密，只是老師不要在班級教學、指導學生的時候，讓孩子被特別標籤，以這個學校我當然可以請同仁再進一步瞭解老師是不是瞭解，我相信以剛才我跟委員報告的時空，不太可能是不瞭解啦！倒是委員剛才提醒到一點，我想我們未來應該跟縣市、學校再強化的，就是師生互動，尤其碰到這些特教孩子的一些處理、應變的原則，其實這一點對老師來講也是滿必要的，因為就我所瞭解到的，老師有一些規範的用詞可能對這個孩子，也許特殊的孩子就是這樣，有一些跟他認知不一樣，這個……"],["洪委員孟楷：是。部長，本席為什麼會給你那麼多時間來解釋，其實要說明的就是，我們也希望在第一線教育工作者的教授權是受到保障的。"],["潘部長文忠：是！"],["洪委員孟楷：我們也不希望這樣的暴力行為持續地發生，對不對？也因此我們才會由這樣的一個個案避免未來有什麼精進的空間，能夠避免未來的暴力行為再次發生，是不是？"],["潘部長文忠：我跟委員報告，這一次當然新北那個不幸的事件，也讓我們跟地方政府對於輔導管教注意事項有了更深入地討論，這當中有一點非常重要，就是老師在合理常態管教的部分，這個注意事項的修訂就是阻卻違法事項，等於過去老師最怕的，比如管教了孩子，結果是正常的、正當的，但是被家長、被學生舉報陳情，永無止境循環，這次在注意事項的修訂這是一個重點，也是支持老師合理管教的必要性。剛才委員提到這個特教生，為什麼會特別提到這個，因為每一個孩子偶、突發的狀況，其實老師在應對、應變各方面，我們希望還是有一個機制，避免說因為一時的語言刺激，結果就偶、突發了……"],["洪委員孟楷：是，所以現在的重點就在於我們的機制是不是完善跟完備嘛，好不好？部長，針對這一點，我們是不是有相關單位找各縣市政府來開會、討論讓這樣的機制完善？"],["潘部長文忠：委員，可以。我剛才跟委員報告輔導與管教辦法的注意事項是全面性，當然這個也包含對特教孩子……"],["洪委員孟楷：我們要不要針對這一個事件，因為現在已經是全國的事件，什麼時候我們找各縣市政府教育局大家共同來開會，針對這個個案避免後續的事情發生的精進檢討？1個月內可不可以？"],["潘部長文忠：可以啊！我們……"],["洪委員孟楷：好，1個月內教育部召集各縣市政府教育局……"],["潘部長文忠：我覺得這很必要，我們聚焦在這一個特教孩子。"],["洪委員孟楷：我覺得有些時候是case study，說實在話我們就是要越來越好，我們也希望這樣的事情不要再發生。"],["潘部長文忠：我完全認同委員的這個建議。"],["洪委員孟楷：謝謝部長，1個月內召集各縣市政府教育局針對這樣的個案，避免類似的狀況再發生，好不好？","再來，部長，每年我們都會討論到學習歷程檔案，學習歷程就是每次要升高中、升大學，對不對？那就已經又再重複，我覺得這好像已經是輪迴了，每年大家都講學習歷程檔案淪為軍備競賽啊！你知道現在坊間最近的行情是多少錢嗎？一套。"],["潘部長文忠：我們不知道……"],["洪委員孟楷：有沒有看媒體？"],["潘部長文忠：不是啦！我們不斷地……"],["洪委員孟楷：有媒體報導啊！一套20萬。"],["潘部長文忠：跟委員報告，這個真的是冤枉錢。"],["洪委員孟楷：很多新聞，部長，我相信不是你去推啦！我也相信我們學習歷程檔案立出來不是說要讓人家做業績，但是確實每年持續循環，這也不是委員第一次在這邊質詢這個議題，我相信你回答都回答很多次了，但是到目前為止都還有啊！不管是自由時報、不管是udn、不管是聯合新聞網都有寫到：代價20萬，營隊收費上萬元，學習歷程代作代寫，軍備競賽，還有坊間喊到20萬，商品化、造假、亂象叢生。那就變成是說我們每年都在檢討這個事情，每年也信誓旦旦保證說這個不會造成學生的壓力，但事實不是如此啊！而且出得起20萬的可能相對來講都會區，那偏鄉的學童，資源越少的、出不起的，他是不是就越來越沒有資格、越來越沒有辦法念到他心目中理想的大學？"],["潘部長文忠：是，我跟委員報告，如果學習歷程檔案用於推甄，就是現在馬上往下就是大學入學推甄階段，在過往就是有所謂的備審資料，因為推甄不可能只看學測成績嘛！否則就不叫推甄了。"],["洪委員孟楷：是，我們現在問的是您覺得說學習歷程檔案到底現在推了這幾年，利大於弊還是弊大於利？"],["潘部長文忠：應該是利大於弊。"],["洪委員孟楷：還是利大於弊？"],["潘部長文忠：對。"],["洪委員孟楷：但是每年都還是有這種喊價、軍備競賽，這怎麼講？"],["潘部長文忠：委員，過去在備審資料這個已經……"],["洪委員孟楷：然後你剛剛講是說你都沒有去……我們有些時候都還講說輿情分析，每個部會現在都在做輿情分析，編錢給媒體、公關公司，每天蒐集相關資訊，結果那麼重要的一個20萬的新聞你沒有看到？"],["潘部長文忠：委員我有看到，我只是表達……"],["洪委員孟楷：那你剛剛又說沒看到。"],["潘部長文忠：不是，我是說我從來不支持這樣的做事。"],["洪委員孟楷：我們沒有人支持這樣的做事，但是今天就是教育部設計了這個制度讓這樣的亂象持續叢生啊！所以本席一開始開宗明義才講說每年到了這個時候，要升學前就開始這些又出來啦！"],["潘部長文忠：不是，因為委員對這個議題也關心，委員，我剛才為什麼會說過往就有備審資料，備審資料照樣可以做類似的事情，所以剛才委員提到學習歷程檔案……"],["洪委員孟楷：部長，我們有沒有檢討？"],["潘部長文忠：有啊！"],["洪委員孟楷：因為我知道召委這個禮拜三就會排我們去科技大樓考察，也會看相關的議題，所以禮拜三你們也會做專案報告，但重點在於是不是變成狗吠火車啊？"],["潘部長文忠：委員……"],["洪委員孟楷：家長們反正叫一叫、喊一喊，你說利大於弊，部長一句利大於弊所以持續推，那家長反正就是每年到了就是看誰的資源多、誰能參加國際的營隊、誰能怎麼樣，他就履歷比較漂亮，資源少的學生他就永遠沒有辦法有這樣的，起跑點就已經輸別人了。"],["潘部長文忠：委員，這個東西當然一定要持續宣傳……"],["洪委員孟楷：我們能夠怎麼檢討？"],["潘部長文忠：我跟委員報告，營隊的部分，教育部是非常嚴格地要求各大專校院，如果因為辦收費的營隊又嫁接到學校未來入學考試，這會重懲，這個是我跟你講……"],["洪委員孟楷：現在懲罰了幾個學校？有抓到嗎？"],["潘部長文忠：不是啊！因為我們這個之前……"],["洪委員孟楷：我現在就講了，對，你現在講是說嚴懲……"],["潘部長文忠：不是，委員，應該要這樣子說……"],["洪委員孟楷：那現在有沒有任何一個學校有抓到？"],["潘部長文忠：委員，應該以前是個別學校，那個資料我可以提供，有個別的教授進行這件事情，我們就追到學校去啦！我當然不好講哪個大學名字，之後我們就覺得說這種現象確實會影響到入學的公平，這是我跟委員報告的……"],["洪委員孟楷：部長，您剛剛提的本席認同，不能影響公平。"],["潘部長文忠：當然不能啊！"],["洪委員孟楷：好，部長，所以說你等一下那相關資料會後給本席一份。"],["潘部長文忠：好。"],["洪委員孟楷：本席會持續追這個議題。那最後1分鐘的時間，我確認一下，現在有講到是說之前我們關心男籃的部分，保險費……"],["潘部長文忠：哪一個？"],["洪委員孟楷：男子籃球。"],["潘部長文忠：瞭解。"],["洪委員孟楷：男籃，那個時候球員講說只有保5萬元的失能險，甚至有講說打中華隊理賠金額只有3萬元，對於我們國人來講這種感情是沒有辦法接受……"],["潘部長文忠：委員，這部分……"],["洪委員孟楷：為國爭光、努力，結果居然他的失能險只有5萬、3萬，然後推說是因為他的合約不公開，所以說他只能保最低的保額，現在有說要比照棒球，國家棒球隊，那請教現在溝通的狀況怎麼樣？"],["潘部長文忠：跟委員報告，確實未來我們這些國家隊的選手的保險，籃球的部分，最主要是國家隊，因為涉及到是職業球員的部分，是這個關鍵，這部分我們就會比照棒球，棒球因為也有職業球員的方式加保，那現在就是教育部會跟金管會，因為有幾個保險公司，目前我們都在希望透過金管會一起洽談，能夠對國家的選手以這樣的模式來保障這個選手萬一受到運動的傷害……"],["洪委員孟楷：所以現在進行的狀況怎麼樣？我就直接問啦！比較具體的問題，下一次國際的盃賽會不會再有這樣的狀況發生？你能不能保證下一次國際的盃賽不會再有這樣子什麼3萬、5萬理賠金的狀況發生？"],["潘部長文忠：好，因為這部分鄭署長都直接聯繫，下一次如果以籃球的部分是11月份，應該在這之前我們可以跟保險公司洽商達到像職棒的部分。"],["洪委員孟楷：可以處理好？"],["潘部長文忠：對。"],["洪委員孟楷：那請教女籃的部分呢？你有沒有看到，部長，先聽本席把問題問完，有沒有看到那個時候我們男子的球員在臉書上發言的時候，居然還有女籃的球員來下面留言說原來你們還有保險喔！網路上的民眾炸鍋，原來有保險3萬、5萬對於女子籃球來講，已經是一個很好的待遇，那就代表女子籃球更沒有。還有，以國家隊來講，本席的狀況，本席是愛運動的，我相信部長也是啦！喜歡運動的人對於這種中華隊，只要能夠代表國家出隊的都好，那半職業呢？包括現在男子排球、女子排球也有半職業運動，它也有職業聯賽啊！那這些職業聯賽如果說未來男子排球、女子排球，他們也要出賽的時候，能不能也協助他們有一個合格、合理的保險？"],["潘部長文忠：跟委員報告……"],["洪委員孟楷：還是只限男籃、男棒這種關注大的、觀眾多的、票房多的、號召力強的、網路聲量高的，我們重視，那其他的聲量小的、相對現在比較沒有辦法有那麼多球迷的，可是它是值得我們培養的，我們就不重視，我想應該不會吧？"],["潘部長文忠：跟委員報告，因為最近幾位都是比較因為有職業選手，職業選手的薪資待遇差異很大啦！"],["洪委員孟楷：職業選手大嘛！然後他的明星光環比較大嘛！"],["潘部長文忠：對，所以職業選手的這部分……"],["洪委員孟楷：我們現在講的是如果要的話，是不是要一視同仁？半職業運動，我跟你講男子排球聯賽、女子排球聯賽也很多人關注啊！當然他們不是完全的職業運動，但是半職業運動啊！部長，您的態度是什麼？"],["潘部長文忠：跟委員報告，因為保險會涉及到他的薪資，如果他不是像職業的選手，但還是有給付到薪資的，因為保險就是依薪資做的基礎嘛！這方面我想我們會一起努力，只是目前一般性選手也許都不是領薪資的選手，也不少，有關這方面是運動的一般保險，可能要分幾個類型來努力。"],["洪委員孟楷：本席同意嘛！所以我剛才講除了第一級比較健全的中華職棒或是男籃，或者是第二級半職業運動，以及現在沒有職業運動但是一樣會是國家代表隊，它應該是有這個等級，但是我們之前的，應該是國民體育法吧！反正就確定只要是能夠擔任我們中華隊的隊員、選手就應該要有保險，這個是法定規定嘛！對不對？"],["潘部長文忠：是，委員剛才提到……"],["洪委員孟楷：現在只是說我們的保額應該要符合他的身價嘛！"],["潘部長文忠：對，依等級的概念，因為有一個就只是代表我們，不見得有……"],["洪委員孟楷：對，所以部長您講到重點，本席的提議就是應該要有等級，符合球員的身價跟待遇，讓他有足夠額的保險，我想這才符合法定精神，這樣可以嗎？"],["潘部長文忠：委員，這部分鄭署長很積極朝這樣方向在努力。"],["洪委員孟楷：本席會持續追，也希望署長真的交出成績單，謝謝。"],["潘部長文忠：好，我想維護保障運動選手一直是我們的努力目標。"],["洪委員孟楷：是我們共同的目標，我們要一起加油，好不好？"],["潘部長文忠：對，好，謝謝。"],["主席：謝謝洪孟楷委員。","然後接下來我們請第3位的吳沛憶吳委員。不好意思，然後我們還請每位委員請尊重發言時間10分加2分，不然召委要當訓導主任喔！只給你最多1分鐘，因為今天人數非常地多。好，謝謝吳委員。"]],"agenda":{"page_end":322,"meet_id":"委員會-11-1-22-2","speakers":["柯志恩","陳培瑜","洪孟楷","吳沛憶","萬美玲","范雲","葛如鈞","郭昱晴","羅廷瑋","陳秀寳","林倩綺","林宜瑾","吳春城","張雅琳","鄭天財Sra Kacaw","楊瓊瓔","羅智強","王鴻薇","蔡易餘","伍麗華Saidhai‧Tahovecahe","呂玉玲"],"page_start":251,"meetingDate":["2024-03-04"],"gazette_id":"1130801","agenda_lcidc_ids":["1130801_00006"],"meet_name":"立法院第11屆第1會期教育及文化委員會第2次全體委員會議紀錄","content":"邀請教育部部長潘文忠列席報告業務概況，並備質詢","agenda_id":"1130801_00005"}},"transcript":{"id":"149189","pyannote":{"name":"ronny","tool":"pyannote","data":{"url":"https://ivod.ly.gov.tw/Play/Clip/1M/149189","tool":"pyannote","id":"149189-pyannote"},"job_id":"kn2g9RADTlirihW8","queued_at":"2024-06-02 13:25:42","status":"done","log":[{"time":"2024-06-02 13:26:36","msg":"downloading https://ivod.ly.gov.tw/Play/Clip/1M/149189"},{"time":"2024-06-02 13:26:37","msg":"downloading https://ivod-lyvod.cdn.hinet.net/vod_1/_definst_/mp4:1MClips/ad9f873b941d2dddecd36152c51bf004baff13691fd5102b22d86b98097ac83e8f4122116dc310355ea18f28b6918d91.mp4/playlist.m3u8"},{"time":"2024-06-02 13:27:06","msg":"converting mp4 to wav"},{"time":"2024-06-02 13:27:09","msg":"running pyannote"},{"time":"2024-06-02 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\"市長我想先兩個重點第一這個老師他在被動就並沒有做任何再進一步的一個去不管是說跟學生的這樣的一個互動其實某種程度上我覺得看到這個老師他其實非常被動的沒有讓自己陷入在更危險的一個狀況那有人就講啊就說難道這個老師一開始不知道他是特教生嗎這有沒有去了解\", \"words\": [{\"word\": \"市\", \"start\": 155.153, \"end\": 155.334, \"score\": 0.883}, {\"word\": \"長\"}, {\"word\": \"我\", \"start\": 155.334, \"end\": 155.434, \"score\": 0.988}, {\"word\": \"想\", \"start\": 155.434, \"end\": 155.614, \"score\": 0.995}, {\"word\": \"先\", \"start\": 155.614, \"end\": 156.255, \"score\": 0.907}, {\"word\": \"兩\"}, {\"word\": \"個\"}, {\"word\": \"重\", \"start\": 156.255, \"end\": 156.935, \"score\": 0.925}, {\"word\": \"點\"}, {\"word\": \"第\", \"start\": 156.935, \"end\": 157.075, \"score\": 0.997}, {\"word\": \"一\", \"start\": 157.075, \"end\": 157.456, \"score\": 0.88}, {\"word\": \"這\"}, {\"word\": \"個\"}, {\"word\": \"老\", \"start\": 157.456, \"end\": 157.956, \"score\": 0.959}, {\"word\": \"師\"}, {\"word\": \"他\", \"start\": 157.956, \"end\": 158.156, \"score\": 0.988}, {\"word\": \"在\", \"start\": 158.156, \"end\": 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{\"word\": \"開\"}, {\"word\": \"始\", \"start\": 175.094, \"end\": 175.234, \"score\": 0.97}, {\"word\": \"不\", \"start\": 175.234, \"end\": 175.314, \"score\": 0.998}, {\"word\": \"知\", \"start\": 175.314, \"end\": 175.354, \"score\": 0.506}, {\"word\": \"道\", \"start\": 175.354, \"end\": 175.534, \"score\": 0.843}, {\"word\": \"他\", \"start\": 175.534, \"end\": 175.714, \"score\": 0.984}, {\"word\": \"是\", \"start\": 175.714, \"end\": 175.895, \"score\": 0.95}, {\"word\": \"特\", \"start\": 175.895, \"end\": 176.055, \"score\": 0.993}, {\"word\": \"教\", \"start\": 176.055, \"end\": 176.295, \"score\": 0.983}, {\"word\": \"生\", \"start\": 176.295, \"end\": 177.376, \"score\": 0.899}, {\"word\": \"嗎\"}, {\"word\": \"這\"}, {\"word\": \"有\", \"start\": 177.376, \"end\": 177.476, \"score\": 0.986}, {\"word\": \"沒\", \"start\": 177.476, \"end\": 177.556, \"score\": 0.747}, {\"word\": \"有\", \"start\": 177.556, \"end\": 177.616, \"score\": 0.615}, {\"word\": \"去\", \"start\": 177.616, \"end\": 177.696, \"score\": 0.748}, {\"word\": \"了\", \"start\": 177.696, \"end\": 177.877, \"score\": 0.959}, {\"word\": \"解\", \"start\": 177.877, \"end\": 177.897, \"score\": 0.786}]}, {\"start\": 185.249, \"end\": 198.659, \"text\": \"所以現在就講是說當普特融合的時候當一個班級裡面有特教生有過去有講是說避免標籤化所以說不要盡可能不要讓大家知道說誰是特教生誰不是特教生但是連老師都不知道嗎\", \"words\": [{\"word\": \"所\", \"start\": 185.249, \"end\": 185.409, \"score\": 0.995}, {\"word\": \"以\", \"start\": 185.409, \"end\": 185.71, \"score\": 0.9}, {\"word\": \"現\"}, {\"word\": \"在\", \"start\": 185.71, \"end\": 185.87, \"score\": 0.979}, {\"word\": \"就\", \"start\": 185.87, \"end\": 186.21, \"score\": 0.875}, {\"word\": \"講\"}, {\"word\": \"是\", \"start\": 186.21, \"end\": 186.79, \"score\": 0.83}, {\"word\": \"說\"}, {\"word\": \"當\"}, {\"word\": \"普\", \"start\": 186.79, \"end\": 186.991, \"score\": 0.794}, {\"word\": \"特\", \"start\": 186.991, \"end\": 187.171, \"score\": 0.938}, {\"word\": \"融\", \"start\": 187.171, \"end\": 187.391, \"score\": 0.71}, {\"word\": \"合\", \"start\": 187.391, \"end\": 187.591, \"score\": 0.869}, {\"word\": \"的\", \"start\": 187.591, \"end\": 187.911, \"score\": 0.928}, {\"word\": \"時\"}, {\"word\": \"候\", \"start\": 187.911, \"end\": 188.352, \"score\": 0.781}, {\"word\": \"當\"}, {\"word\": \"一\", \"start\": 188.352, \"end\": 188.652, \"score\": 0.898}, {\"word\": \"個\"}, {\"word\": \"班\", \"start\": 188.652, \"end\": 189.152, \"score\": 0.848}, {\"word\": \"級\"}, {\"word\": \"裡\"}, {\"word\": \"面\", \"start\": 189.152, \"end\": 189.332, \"score\": 0.919}, {\"word\": \"有\", \"start\": 189.332, \"end\": 189.512, \"score\": 0.816}, {\"word\": \"特\", \"start\": 189.512, \"end\": 189.713, \"score\": 0.913}, {\"word\": \"教\", \"start\": 189.713, \"end\": 189.973, \"score\": 0.935}, {\"word\": \"生\", \"start\": 189.973, \"end\": 190.573, \"score\": 0.898}, {\"word\": \"有\", \"start\": 190.573, \"end\": 191.214, \"score\": 0.92}, {\"word\": \"過\"}, {\"word\": \"去\", \"start\": 191.214, \"end\": 191.334, 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\"end\": 194.236, \"score\": 0.956}, {\"word\": \"要\", \"start\": 194.236, \"end\": 194.476, \"score\": 0.869}, {\"word\": \"讓\"}, {\"word\": \"大\", \"start\": 194.476, \"end\": 194.496, \"score\": 0.828}, {\"word\": \"家\", \"start\": 194.496, \"end\": 194.676, \"score\": 0.876}, {\"word\": \"知\", \"start\": 194.676, \"end\": 194.776, \"score\": 0.918}, {\"word\": \"道\", \"start\": 194.776, \"end\": 195.257, \"score\": 0.845}, {\"word\": \"說\"}, {\"word\": \"誰\"}, {\"word\": \"是\", \"start\": 195.257, \"end\": 195.397, \"score\": 0.738}, {\"word\": \"特\", \"start\": 195.397, \"end\": 195.517, \"score\": 0.842}, {\"word\": \"教\", \"start\": 195.517, \"end\": 195.677, \"score\": 0.704}, {\"word\": \"生\", \"start\": 195.677, \"end\": 195.997, \"score\": 0.867}, {\"word\": \"誰\"}, {\"word\": \"不\", \"start\": 195.997, \"end\": 196.097, \"score\": 0.99}, {\"word\": \"是\", \"start\": 196.097, \"end\": 196.238, \"score\": 0.683}, {\"word\": \"特\", \"start\": 196.238, \"end\": 196.378, \"score\": 0.869}, {\"word\": \"教\", \"start\": 196.378, \"end\": 196.578, \"score\": 0.868}, {\"word\": \"生\", \"start\": 196.578, \"end\": 197.078, \"score\": 0.889}, {\"word\": \"但\", \"start\": 197.078, \"end\": 197.218, \"score\": 0.826}, {\"word\": \"是\", \"start\": 197.218, \"end\": 197.799, \"score\": 0.898}, {\"word\": \"連\"}, {\"word\": \"老\", \"start\": 197.799, \"end\": 198.219, \"score\": 0.869}, {\"word\": \"師\"}, {\"word\": \"都\", \"start\": 198.219, \"end\": 198.359, \"score\": 0.888}, {\"word\": \"不\", \"start\": 198.359, \"end\": 198.479, \"score\": 0.95}, {\"word\": \"知\", \"start\": 198.479, \"end\": 198.639, \"score\": 0.954}, {\"word\": \"道\", \"start\": 198.639, \"end\": 198.659, \"score\": 0.997}, {\"word\": \"嗎\"}]}, {\"start\": 199.48, \"end\": 215.98, \"text\": \"那這樣的話對於第一線的教育工作者來講他是不是就會沒有辦法掌握一個班級的現實的狀況而反而造成這樣子危險的情況 層出不窮部長你認為呢如果是特教孩子這個從IEP的評估都不是一個人一個老師\", \"words\": [{\"word\": \"那\", \"start\": 199.48, \"end\": 199.54, \"score\": 0.973}, {\"word\": \"這\"}, {\"word\": \"樣\"}, {\"word\": \"的\", \"start\": 199.54, \"end\": 199.6, \"score\": 0.053}, {\"word\": \"話\"}, {\"word\": \"對\"}, {\"word\": \"於\", \"start\": 199.6, \"end\": 200.281, \"score\": 0.751}, {\"word\": \"第\", \"start\": 200.281, \"end\": 200.421, \"score\": 0.96}, {\"word\": \"一\", \"start\": 200.421, \"end\": 200.762, \"score\": 0.766}, {\"word\": \"線\"}, {\"word\": \"的\", \"start\": 200.762, \"end\": 200.882, \"score\": 0.728}, {\"word\": \"教\", \"start\": 200.882, \"end\": 201.022, \"score\": 0.905}, {\"word\": \"育\", \"start\": 201.022, \"end\": 201.162, \"score\": 0.802}, {\"word\": \"工\", \"start\": 201.162, \"end\": 201.342, \"score\": 0.939}, {\"word\": \"作\", \"start\": 201.342, \"end\": 201.503, \"score\": 0.827}, {\"word\": \"者\", \"start\": 201.503, \"end\": 201.923, \"score\": 0.742}, {\"word\": \"來\"}, {\"word\": \"講\"}, {\"word\": \"他\", \"start\": 201.923, \"end\": 202.083, \"score\": 0.815}, {\"word\": \"是\", \"start\": 202.083, \"end\": 202.163, \"score\": 0.892}, {\"word\": \"不\", \"start\": 202.163, \"end\": 202.183, \"score\": 0.001}, {\"word\": \"是\", \"start\": 202.183, \"end\": 202.364, \"score\": 0.688}, {\"word\": \"就\", \"start\": 202.364, \"end\": 202.924, \"score\": 0.814}, {\"word\": \"會\"}, {\"word\": \"沒\", \"start\": 202.924, \"end\": 203.064, \"score\": 0.707}, {\"word\": \"有\", \"start\": 203.064, \"end\": 203.405, \"score\": 0.777}, {\"word\": \"辦\"}, {\"word\": \"法\", \"start\": 203.405, \"end\": 203.805, \"score\": 0.923}, {\"word\": \"掌\", \"start\": 203.805, \"end\": 204.046, \"score\": 0.759}, {\"word\": \"握\", \"start\": 204.046, \"end\": 204.386, \"score\": 0.733}, {\"word\": \"一\", \"start\": 204.386, \"end\": 204.686, \"score\": 0.781}, {\"word\": \"個\"}, {\"word\": \"班\", \"start\": 204.686, \"end\": 205.027, \"score\": 0.875}, {\"word\": \"級\"}, {\"word\": \"的\", \"start\": 205.027, \"end\": 205.548, \"score\": 0.746}, {\"word\": \"現\"}, {\"word\": \"實\"}, {\"word\": \"的\", \"start\": 205.548, \"end\": 206.088, \"score\": 0.698}, {\"word\": \"狀\"}, {\"word\": \"況\"}, {\"word\": \"而\", \"start\": 206.088, \"end\": 206.328, \"score\": 0.633}, {\"word\": \"反\", \"start\": 206.328, \"end\": 206.569, \"score\": 0.642}, {\"word\": \"而\", \"start\": 206.569, \"end\": 206.769, \"score\": 0.769}, {\"word\": \"造\", \"start\": 206.769, \"end\": 206.969, \"score\": 0.702}, {\"word\": \"成\", \"start\": 206.969, \"end\": 207.41, \"score\": 0.667}, {\"word\": \"這\"}, {\"word\": \"樣\"}, {\"word\": \"子\", \"start\": 207.41, \"end\": 207.55, \"score\": 0.843}, {\"word\": \"危\", \"start\": 207.55, \"end\": 207.85, \"score\": 0.75}, {\"word\": \"險\"}, {\"word\": \"的\", \"start\": 207.85, \"end\": 207.97, \"score\": 0.488}, {\"word\": \"情\", \"start\": 207.97, \"end\": 208.631, \"score\": 0.746}, {\"word\": \"況\"}, {\"word\": \"層\"}, {\"word\": \"出\", \"start\": 208.631, \"end\": 208.751, \"score\": 0.859}, {\"word\": \"不\", \"start\": 208.751, \"end\": 209.853, \"score\": 0.764}, {\"word\": \"窮\"}, {\"word\": \"部\", \"start\": 209.853, \"end\": 210.213, \"score\": 0.733}, {\"word\": \"長\"}, {\"word\": \"你\", \"start\": 210.213, \"end\": 210.333, \"score\": 0.682}, {\"word\": \"認\"}, {\"word\": \"為\"}, {\"word\": \"呢\", \"start\": 210.333, \"end\": 211.174, \"score\": 0.751}, {\"word\": \"如\", \"start\": 211.174, \"end\": 211.294, \"score\": 0.747}, {\"word\": \"果\", \"start\": 211.294, \"end\": 211.455, \"score\": 0.707}, {\"word\": \"是\", \"start\": 211.455, \"end\": 211.635, \"score\": 0.768}, {\"word\": \"特\", \"start\": 211.635, \"end\": 211.875, \"score\": 0.902}, {\"word\": \"教\", \"start\": 211.875, \"end\": 212.176, \"score\": 0.723}, {\"word\": \"孩\", \"start\": 212.176, \"end\": 212.456, \"score\": 0.955}, {\"word\": \"子\", \"start\": 212.456, \"end\": 213.417, \"score\": 0.824}, {\"word\": \"這\"}, {\"word\": \"個\"}, {\"word\": \"從\"}, {\"word\": \"I\", \"start\": 213.417, \"end\": 213.557, \"score\": 0.839}, {\"word\": \"E\", \"start\": 213.557, \"end\": 213.757, \"score\": 0.817}, {\"word\": \"P\", \"start\": 213.757, \"end\": 214.018, \"score\": 0.92}, {\"word\": \"的\", \"start\": 214.018, \"end\": 214.618, \"score\": 0.944}, {\"word\": \"評\"}, {\"word\": \"估\", \"start\": 214.618, \"end\": 215.019, \"score\": 0.988}, {\"word\": \"都\", \"start\": 215.019, \"end\": 215.139, \"score\": 0.83}, {\"word\": \"不\", \"start\": 215.139, \"end\": 215.239, \"score\": 0.923}, {\"word\": \"是\", \"start\": 215.239, \"end\": 215.359, \"score\": 0.833}, {\"word\": \"一\", \"start\": 215.359, \"end\": 215.56, \"score\": 0.79}, {\"word\": \"個\"}, {\"word\": \"人\", \"start\": 215.56, \"end\": 215.8, \"score\": 0.879}, {\"word\": \"一\", \"start\": 215.8, \"end\": 215.96, \"score\": 0.759}, {\"word\": \"個\"}, {\"word\": \"老\", \"start\": 215.96, \"end\": 215.98, \"score\": 0.958}, {\"word\": \"師\"}]}, {\"start\": 216.741, \"end\": 218.922, \"text\": \"我們要不要避免我們第一線的教育工作者\", \"words\": [{\"word\": \"我\", \"start\": 216.741, \"end\": 216.901, \"score\": 0.892}, 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\"還是只限說南南南棒這種關注大的觀眾多的票房多的號召力強的網路聲量高的我們重視那其他的聲量小的沒有什麼比相對現在比較沒有辦法有那麼多球迷的可是他是值得我們培養的我們就不重視是我想應該不會吧\", \"words\": [{\"word\": \"還\"}, {\"word\": \"是\", \"start\": 837.629, \"end\": 837.789, \"score\": 0.996}, {\"word\": \"只\", \"start\": 837.789, \"end\": 837.929, \"score\": 0.866}, {\"word\": \"限\", \"start\": 837.929, \"end\": 838.469, \"score\": 0.902}, {\"word\": \"說\"}, {\"word\": \"南\", \"start\": 838.469, \"end\": 838.669, \"score\": 0.945}, {\"word\": \"南\", \"start\": 838.669, \"end\": 839.29, \"score\": 0.972}, {\"word\": \"南\", \"start\": 839.29, \"end\": 839.55, \"score\": 0.934}, {\"word\": \"棒\", \"start\": 839.55, \"end\": 840.951, \"score\": 0.914}, {\"word\": \"這\"}, {\"word\": \"種\"}, {\"word\": \"關\"}, {\"word\": \"注\", \"start\": 840.951, \"end\": 841.191, \"score\": 0.999}, {\"word\": \"大\", \"start\": 841.191, \"end\": 841.431, \"score\": 0.97}, {\"word\": \"的\", \"start\": 841.431, \"end\": 842.092, \"score\": 0.938}, {\"word\": \"觀\"}, {\"word\": \"眾\"}, {\"word\": 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{\"word\": \"動\"}, {\"word\": \"啊\", \"start\": 877.507, \"end\": 877.527, \"score\": 0.0}]}, {\"start\": 880.711, \"end\": 882.013, \"text\": \"市長,您的態度是什麼?\", \"words\": [{\"word\": \"市\", \"start\": 880.711, \"end\": 881.272, \"score\": 0.653}, {\"word\": \"長\"}, {\"word\": \",\"}, {\"word\": \"您\", \"start\": 881.272, \"end\": 881.392, \"score\": 0.545}, {\"word\": \"的\", \"start\": 881.392, \"end\": 881.732, \"score\": 0.701}, {\"word\": \"態\"}, {\"word\": \"度\", \"start\": 881.732, \"end\": 881.873, \"score\": 0.654}, {\"word\": \"是\", \"start\": 881.873, \"end\": 881.993, \"score\": 0.531}, {\"word\": \"什\", \"start\": 881.993, \"end\": 882.013, \"score\": 0.972}, {\"word\": \"麼\"}, {\"word\": \"?\"}]}, {\"start\": 898.215, \"end\": 925.504, \"text\": \"現在目前一般選手也許都不是領薪資的選手也不少這方面是我們有關在這方面運動的一般保險可能要分了幾個類型來努力本席同意所以我剛才講除了說第一級比較健全的中華職棒或是男藍或者是第二級半職業運動以及現在沒有職業運動但是一樣會是國家代表隊他應該是有這個等級但是我們之前的應該是國民體育法吧\", \"words\": [{\"word\": \"現\"}, {\"word\": \"在\", \"start\": 898.215, \"end\": 898.375, 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\"朝\", \"start\": 932.67, \"end\": 933.111, \"score\": 0.954}, {\"word\": \"這\"}, {\"word\": \"樣\"}, {\"word\": \"方\", \"start\": 933.111, \"end\": 933.131, \"score\": 0.0}, {\"word\": \"向\", \"start\": 933.131, \"end\": 933.151, \"score\": 0.0}, {\"word\": \"在\", \"start\": 933.151, \"end\": 933.171, \"score\": 0.0}, {\"word\": \"努\", \"start\": 933.171, \"end\": 933.391, \"score\": 0.904}, {\"word\": \"力\", \"start\": 933.391, \"end\": 933.411, \"score\": 0.0}, {\"word\": \"本\", \"start\": 959.241, \"end\": 959.361, \"score\": 0.886}, {\"word\": \"期\", \"start\": 959.361, \"end\": 959.622, \"score\": 0.744}, {\"word\": \"會\"}, {\"word\": \"持\", \"start\": 959.622, \"end\": 959.882, \"score\": 0.731}, {\"word\": \"續\"}, {\"word\": \"追\", \"start\": 959.882, \"end\": 960.163, \"score\": 0.767}, {\"word\": \"也\", \"start\": 960.163, \"end\": 960.343, \"score\": 0.9}, {\"word\": \"希\", \"start\": 960.343, \"end\": 960.503, \"score\": 0.849}, {\"word\": \"望\", \"start\": 960.503, \"end\": 960.704, \"score\": 0.712}, {\"word\": \"署\", \"start\": 960.704, \"end\": 961.024, \"score\": 0.811}, {\"word\": \"長\"}, {\"word\": \"真\", \"start\": 961.024, \"end\": 961.144, \"score\": 0.71}, {\"word\": \"的\", \"start\": 961.144, \"end\": 961.225, \"score\": 0.907}, {\"word\": \"交\", \"start\": 961.225, \"end\": 961.385, \"score\": 0.947}, {\"word\": \"出\", \"start\": 961.385, \"end\": 961.545, \"score\": 0.699}, {\"word\": \"成\", \"start\": 961.545, \"end\": 961.565, \"score\": 0.065}, {\"word\": \"績\"}, {\"word\": \"單\"}], \"language\": \"zh\"}","srt":"1\n00:00:09,234 --> 00:00:28,106\n主席謝謝麻煩請潘部長部長早部長早部長我想我們很多人在網路上都有看到一個高中生這個特教生在課堂上面跟老師的一個衝突是部長有看到這影片嗎我有看\n\n2\n00:00:28,922 --> 00:00:30,303\n你什麼時候知道的?昨天?\n\n3\n00:00:43,830 --> 00:01:09,928\n在這個過程裡面當然第一一開始的時候老師這邊有講到說這個同學坐在第一排那後來這同學就直接當老師的面罵了五字經然後動手這一些您都有看到那我們現在就想要探討幾個比較重點的部分就是說特普這個普特融合的一個狀況那現在上路但是會不會這只是個案還是這是通案\n\n4\n00:01:10,708 --> 00:01:33,621\n我想站在教育部長的立場,我先請教您對於這個老師的處置來講,您覺得可以嗎?我跟委員報告,行為對象是我們特教孩子,也了解到他是在情緒這方面從過往學校所了解到掌握到的,他就是一個比較有這方面傾向甚至有暴力\n\n5\n00:01:34,301 --> 00:01:34,541\n主席\n\n6\n00:01:49,560 --> 00:01:49,660\n委員會主席\n\n7\n00:02:14,560 --> 00:02:34,533\n普特融合這個已經是一個世界發展的趨勢但是這個理念要落實其實是要有相當大的資源跟投入來協助普特融合後不管對我們特教的孩子或在普通班進行教學的老師這個才能夠落實這一段否則師生面對這個挑戰是非常的大\n\n8\n00:02:35,153 --> 00:02:57,897\n市長我想先兩個重點第一這個老師他在被動就並沒有做任何再進一步的一個去不管是說跟學生的這樣的一個互動其實某種程度上我覺得看到這個老師他其實非常被動的沒有讓自己陷入在更危險的一個狀況那有人就講啊就說難道這個老師一開始不知道他是特教生嗎這有沒有去了解\n\n9\n00:03:05,249 --> 00:03:18,659\n所以現在就講是說當普特融合的時候當一個班級裡面有特教生有過去有講是說避免標籤化所以說不要盡可能不要讓大家知道說誰是特教生誰不是特教生但是連老師都不知道嗎\n\n10\n00:03:19,480 --> 00:03:35,980\n那這樣的話對於第一線的教育工作者來講他是不是就會沒有辦法掌握一個班級的現實的狀況而反而造成這樣子危險的情況層出不窮部長你認為呢如果是特教孩子這個從IEP的評估都不是一個人一個老師\n\n11\n00:03:36,741 --> 00:03:38,922\n我們要不要避免我們第一線的教育工作者\n\n12\n00:04:05,669 --> 00:04:13,195\n委員我跟委員報告因為現在是這個學年度的第二學期學生應該不是突然在這個班級內那我剛才跟委員報告說在學生的輔導上那個IEP的評估的工作本來就是一個team的概念那你任教的老師這不是秘密只是老師不要在班級教學指導學生的時候讓孩子被特別\n\n13\n00:04:30,048 --> 00:04:42,575\n但我相信以這個學校我當然可以請同仁再進一步瞭解老師是不是瞭解我相信以剛才跟委員報告的時空不太可能是不瞭解但是我應該提醒到一段我想這個我們未來應該跟縣市學校再強化的\n\n14\n00:04:46,437 --> 00:05:07,282\n就是師生互動一起碰到這些特教孩子的一些處理的應變的原則其實這一點對老師來講是也蠻必要的因為就我所了解到的這個可能是學生跟老師在老師有一些規範的用詞啦可能對這個孩子也許特殊的孩子就是這樣有一些跟他認知不一樣\n\n15\n00:05:07,942 --> 00:05:22,070\n部長,本期為什麼會給你那麼多時間來解釋,其實要說明的就是我們也希望在第一線教育工作者他的一個教授權是受到保障的,我們也不希望這樣的一個暴力行為持續的發生,對不對?\n\n16\n00:05:23,230 --> 00:05:25,511\n新聞新聞新聞新聞新聞新聞新聞新聞新聞新聞新聞新聞新聞新聞新聞新聞新聞新聞新聞新聞新聞新聞新聞新聞新聞新聞新聞新聞新聞新聞新聞新聞新聞新聞新聞新聞新聞新聞新聞新聞新聞新聞新聞新聞\n\n17\n00:05:42,896 --> 00:05:58,800\n就是老師在合理常態的管教的這部分我們要賦予這個自衛事項的修訂就是準確違法事項等於說過去老師最怕的就是說比如管教了孩子結果是正常的正當的但是被家長、被學生來舉報、申請\n\n18\n00:06:01,041 --> 00:06:01,261\n：洪孟楷\n\n19\n00:06:24,073 --> 00:06:25,914\n委員可以這個我剛才跟委員報告輔導與管教辦法的注意事項是全面性當然這個也包含\n\n20\n00:06:44,339 --> 00:06:51,342\n我們要不要針對這個事件因為現在已經是全國的事件什麼時候我們找各縣市政府教育局大家共同來開會針對這個個案避免後續的事情發生的精進檢討一個月內教育部召集各縣市政府教育局我覺得有些時候是casestudy說實在話我們就是要越來越好\n\n21\n00:07:07,868 --> 00:07:30,060\n我們也希望這樣的事情不要再發生我完全認同委員的這個建議謝謝部長一個月內召集各縣市政府教育局針對這樣的一個個案避免類似的狀況再發生好不好再來部長每年我們都會討論到這個學習歷程檔案學習歷程就每次要升高中升大學嘛對不對那就已經又再重複我覺得好像這已經是輪迴了\n\n22\n00:07:33,257 --> 00:07:42,491\n每年大家都講說學習歷程檔案輪軍備競賽啊你知道現在坊間最近的行情是多少錢嗎一套有沒有看媒體有媒體報導啊一套20萬\n\n23\n00:07:47,301 --> 00:08:12,882\n一套20萬這個真的是冤枉錢部長我相信不是你去推啦我現在講我也相信說我們學習電產案立出來不是說要讓人家做業績但是確實每年持續循環這也不是委員第一次在這邊質詢這個議題我相信你回答都回答很多次了但是到目前為止都還有啊不管是自由時報不管是UDN不管是聯合新聞網都有寫到\n\n24\n00:08:13,562 --> 00:08:16,243\n代價20萬銀隊收費上萬元學習歷程做代寫軍備競賽還有坊間喊套20萬商品化造假亂象重生\n\n25\n00:08:26,493 --> 00:08:26,613\n我跟你們報告齁\n\n26\n00:08:48,835 --> 00:09:10,999\n如果學習歷程檔案用以推增就是現在馬上往下就是大學入學推增階段在過往就是有所謂的備審資料因為推增不可能只看學測成績嘛否則就不叫推增了我們現在問的是你覺得說學習歷程檔案到底現在推了這幾年利大於弊還是弊大於利應該是利大於弊還是利大於弊但是每年都還是有這種喊價軍備競賽這怎麼講過去在備審資料然後你剛剛講是說你都沒有去我們有些時候都還講語情分析啊\n\n27\n00:09:19,486 --> 00:09:47,501\n每個部會現在都在做語情分析編錢給媒體公關公司每天收集相關部會結果那麼重要的一個20萬的一個新聞你沒有看到我有看到我只是表達你剛又說沒看到不是我是說我從來不答不支持這樣的做事我們沒有很支持這樣的做事但是今天就是教育部設計的這個制度讓這樣的亂象持續重生所以本是一開始開宗明義才講是說每年到了這個時候要升學前\n\n28\n00:09:48,221 --> 00:10:10,416\n因為委員對這個議題也關心我剛才為什麼會說過往就有備審資料備審資料照樣可以做類似的事情所以剛才委員提到學習基礎談判我們有沒有檢討因為我知道朝偉這個禮拜三就會排我們去科技大樓考察也會看這個相關的議題所以禮拜三你們也會做專案報告但重點在於是是不是\n\n29\n00:10:13,498 --> 00:10:33,745\n家長們反正叫一叫喊一喊你說力大於弊部長一句力大於弊所以持續推那家長反正就是每年到了就是看誰的資源多誰能參加國際的營隊誰能怎麼樣他就履歷比較漂亮資源少的學生他就永遠沒有辦法有這樣的先起跑點就已經輸別人\n\n30\n00:10:34,085 --> 00:10:35,086\n我們現在懲罰了幾個學校?\n\n31\n00:10:53,246 --> 00:10:53,686\n您剛提的本席認同不能影響公平\n\n32\n00:11:21,562 --> 00:11:47,833\n好部長所以說你等下那相關資料會後給本席一份本席會持續追這個議題那最後一分鐘的時間我確認一下現在有講到是說之前我們關心這個男籃的部分保險費男子籃球男籃那個時候球員講說只有保五萬元的失能險甚至有講說打中華隊理賠金額只有三萬元那對於我們國人來講這種感情是沒有辦法\n\n33\n00:11:48,573 --> 00:11:49,334\n請教現在溝通的狀況怎麼樣?\n\n34\n00:12:05,166 --> 00:12:07,688\n對,跟我們報告,確實未來我們這些國家隊的選手的保險籃球的部分就只要是國家隊因為涉及到是職業球員的部分是這個關鍵這部分我們就會比照棒球音樂有職業球員的方式加保\n\n35\n00:12:22,038 --> 00:12:31,469\n現在就是教育部會跟金管會來因為有幾個保險公司目前我們都在希望透過金管一起洽談能夠對國家的選手以這樣的模式來保障這個選手萬一受到運動的傷害所以現在進行的狀況怎麼樣我就直接問啦比較具體的問題下一次國際的盃賽會不會再有這樣的狀況發生\n\n36\n00:12:43,962 --> 00:13:00,514\n你能不能保證下一次國際的盃賽不會再有這樣子什麼3萬5萬禮賠金的狀況發生因為這部分政府都直接聯繫下一次如果以籃球的部分是11月份應該在這之前我們有可以跟保險公司洽商﹖可以處理好那請教女籃的部分呢你有沒有看到先聽部長先聽本席吧問題問完\n\n37\n00:13:07,279 --> 00:13:32,219\n有沒有看到那個時候我們男子的這個球員他在臉書上發言的時候居然還有女籃的球員來下面留言說哈原來你們還有保險喔那網路上的民眾一炸鍋喔原來是有保險三萬五萬對於女子籃球來講這已經是一個很好的待遇了那就代表女子籃球更沒有那還有以國家隊來講本席的狀況本席是愛運動的我相信部長也是\n\n38\n00:13:33,280 --> 00:13:55,355\n喜歡運動的人對於我們的這種中華隊只要能夠代表國家代表出隊的都好那辦職業咧包括現在男子排球女子排球他也有辦職業運動啊他也有職業聯賽啊那這些職業聯賽如果說未來男子排球女子排球他們也要出賽的時候能不能也協助他們有一個合格合理的保險\n\n39\n00:13:57,629 --> 00:14:15,020\n還是只限說南南南棒這種關注大的觀眾多的票房多的號召力強的網路聲量高的我們重視那其他的聲量小的沒有什麼比相對現在比較沒有辦法有那麼多球迷的可是他是值得我們培養的我們就不重視是我想應該不會吧\n\n40\n00:14:17,020 --> 00:14:37,527\n最近幾位都是比較因為有職業選手職業選手的薪資待遇差異很大職業選手大嘛所以職業選手的這部分但我們現在講的是說如果說要是同仁辦職業運動男子排球聯賽女子排球聯賽也很多人關注啊當然他們不是完全的職業運動但辦職業運動啊\n\n41\n00:14:40,711 --> 00:14:42,013\n市長,您的態度是什麼?\n\n42\n00:14:58,215 --> 00:15:25,504\n現在目前一般選手也許都不是領薪資的選手也不少這方面是我們有關在這方面運動的一般保險可能要分了幾個類型來努力本席同意所以我剛才講除了說第一級比較健全的中華職棒或是男藍或者是第二級半職業運動以及現在沒有職業運動但是一樣會是國家代表隊他應該是有這個等級但是我們之前的應該是國民體育法吧\n\n43\n00:15:26,064 --> 00:15:30,270\n阿體育法反正就確定就是只要是能夠擔任我們中華隊的\n\n44\n00:15:31,550 --> 00:15:33,411\n委員這部份這個組長很積極也朝這樣方向在努力\n\n45\n00:15:59,241 --> 00:16:01,565\n本期會持續追也希望署長真的交出成績單\n\n","tsv":"start\tend\ttext\n9234\t28106\t主席謝謝麻煩請潘部長部長早部長早部長我想我們很多人在網路上都有看到一個高中生這個特教生在課堂上面跟老師的一個衝突是部長有看到這影片嗎我有看\n28922\t30303\t你什麼時候知道的?昨天?\n43830\t69928\t在這個過程裡面當然第一一開始的時候老師這邊有講到說這個同學坐在第一排那後來這同學就直接當老師的面罵了五字經然後動手這一些您都有看到那我們現在就想要探討幾個比較重點的部分就是說特普這個普特融合的一個狀況那現在上路但是會不會這只是個案還是這是通案\n70708\t93621\t我想站在教育部長的立場,我先請教您對於這個老師的處置來講,您覺得可以嗎?我跟委員報告,行為對象是我們特教孩子,也了解到他是在情緒這方面從過往學校所了解到掌握到的,他就是一個比較有這方面傾向甚至有暴力\n94301\t94541\t主席\n109560\t109660\t委員會主席\n134560\t154533\t普特融合這個已經是一個世界發展的趨勢但是這個理念要落實其實是要有相當大的資源跟投入來協助普特融合後不管對我們特教的孩子或在普通班進行教學的老師這個才能夠落實這一段否則師生面對這個挑戰是非常的大\n155153\t177897\t市長我想先兩個重點第一這個老師他在被動就並沒有做任何再進一步的一個去不管是說跟學生的這樣的一個互動其實某種程度上我覺得看到這個老師他其實非常被動的沒有讓自己陷入在更危險的一個狀況那有人就講啊就說難道這個老師一開始不知道他是特教生嗎這有沒有去了解\n185249\t198659\t所以現在就講是說當普特融合的時候當一個班級裡面有特教生有過去有講是說避免標籤化所以說不要盡可能不要讓大家知道說誰是特教生誰不是特教生但是連老師都不知道嗎\n199480\t215980\t那這樣的話對於第一線的教育工作者來講他是不是就會沒有辦法掌握一個班級的現實的狀況而反而造成這樣子危險的情況 層出不窮部長你認為呢如果是特教孩子這個從IEP的評估都不是一個人一個老師\n216741\t218922\t我們要不要避免我們第一線的教育工作者\n245669\t253195\t委員我跟委員報告因為現在是這個學年度的第二學期學生應該不是突然在這個班級內那我剛才跟委員報告說在學生的輔導上那個IEP的評估的工作本來就是一個team的概念那你任教的老師這不是秘密只是老師不要在班級教學指導學生的時候讓孩子被特別\n270048\t282575\t但我相信以這個學校我當然可以請同仁再進一步瞭解老師是不是瞭解我相信以剛才跟委員報告的時空不太可能是不瞭解但是我應該提醒到一段我想這個我們未來應該跟縣市學校再強化的\n286437\t307282\t就是師生互動一起碰到這些特教孩子的一些處理的應變的原則其實這一點對老師來講是也蠻必要的因為就我所了解到的這個可能是學生跟老師在老師有一些規範的用詞啦可能對這個孩子也許特殊的孩子就是這樣有一些跟他認知不一樣\n307942\t322070\t部長,本期為什麼會給你那麼多時間來解釋,其實要說明的就是我們也希望在第一線教育工作者他的一個教授權是受到保障的,我們也不希望這樣的一個暴力行為持續的發生,對不對?\n323230\t325511\t新聞新聞新聞新聞新聞新聞新聞新聞新聞新聞新聞新聞新聞新聞新聞新聞新聞新聞新聞新聞新聞新聞新聞新聞新聞新聞新聞新聞新聞新聞新聞新聞新聞新聞新聞新聞新聞新聞新聞新聞新聞新聞新聞新聞\n342896\t358800\t就是老師在合理常態的管教的這部分我們要賦予這個自衛事項的修訂就是準確違法事項等於說過去老師最怕的就是說比如管教了孩子結果是正常的正當的但是被家長、被學生來舉報、申請\n361041\t361261\t：洪孟楷\n384073\t385914\t委員可以 這個我剛才跟委員報告輔導與管教辦法的注意事項是全面性當然這個也包含\n404339\t411342\t我們要不要針對這個事件因為現在已經是全國的事件什麼時候我們找各縣市政府教育局大家共同來開會針對這個個案避免後續的事情發生的精進檢討一個月內教育部召集各縣市政府教育局我覺得有些時候是case study說實在話我們就是要越來越好\n427868\t450060\t我們也希望這樣的事情不要再發生我完全認同委員的這個建議謝謝部長一個月內召集各縣市政府教育局針對這樣的一個個案避免類似的狀況再發生好不好再來部長每年我們都會討論到這個學習歷程檔案學習歷程就每次要升高中升大學嘛對不對那就已經又再重複我覺得好像這已經是輪迴了\n453257\t462491\t每年大家都講說學習歷程檔案輪軍備競賽啊你知道現在坊間最近的行情是多少錢嗎一套有沒有看媒體有媒體報導啊一套20萬\n467301\t492882\t一套20萬 這個真的是冤枉錢部長 我相信不是你去推啦我現在講 我也相信說我們學習電產案立出來不是說要讓人家做業績但是確實每年持續循環 這也不是委員第一次在這邊質詢這個議題我相信你回答都回答很多次了 但是到目前為止都還有啊不管是自由時報 不管是UDN 不管是聯合新聞網 都有寫到\n493562\t496243\t代價20萬銀隊收費上萬元學習歷程做代寫軍備競賽還有坊間喊套20萬商品化造假亂象重生\n506493\t506613\t我跟你們報告齁\n528835\t550999\t如果學習歷程檔案用以推增就是現在馬上往下就是大學入學推增階段在過往就是有所謂的備審資料因為推增不可能只看學測成績嘛否則就不叫推增了我們現在問的是你覺得說學習歷程檔案到底現在推了這幾年利大於弊還是弊大於利應該是利大於弊還是利大於弊但是每年都還是有這種喊價軍備競賽這怎麼講過去在備審資料然後你剛剛講是說你都沒有去我們有些時候都還講語情分析啊\n559486\t587501\t每個部會現在都在做語情分析編錢給媒體公關公司每天收集相關部會結果那麼重要的一個20萬的一個新聞你沒有看到我有看到我只是表達你剛又說沒看到不是我是說我從來不答不支持這樣的做事我們沒有很支持這樣的做事但是今天就是教育部設計的這個制度讓這樣的亂象持續重生所以本是一開始開宗明義才講是說每年到了這個時候要升學前\n588221\t610416\t因為委員對這個議題也關心我剛才為什麼會說過往就有備審資料備審資料照樣可以做類似的事情所以剛才委員提到學習基礎談判我們有沒有檢討因為我知道朝偉這個禮拜三就會排我們去科技大樓考察也會看這個相關的議題所以禮拜三你們也會做專案報告但重點在於是是不是\n613498\t633745\t家長們反正叫一叫喊一喊你說力大於弊部長一句力大於弊所以持續推那家長反正就是每年到了就是看誰的資源多誰能參加國際的營隊誰能怎麼樣他就履歷比較漂亮資源少的學生他就永遠沒有辦法有這樣的先起跑點就已經輸別人\n634085\t635086\t我們現在懲罰了幾個學校?\n653246\t653686\t您剛提的本席認同不能影響公平\n681562\t707833\t好部長所以說你等下那相關資料會後給本席一份本席會持續追這個議題那最後一分鐘的時間我確認一下現在有講到是說之前我們關心這個男籃的部分保險費男子籃球男籃那個時候球員講說只有保五萬元的失能險甚至有講說打中華隊理賠金額只有三萬元那對於我們國人來講這種感情是沒有辦法\n708573\t709334\t請教現在溝通的狀況怎麼樣?\n725166\t727688\t對,跟我們報告,確實未來我們這些國家隊的選手的保險籃球的部分就只要是國家隊因為涉及到是職業球員的部分是這個關鍵這部分我們就會比照棒球音樂有職業球員的方式加保\n742038\t751469\t現在就是教育部會跟金管會來因為有幾個保險公司目前我們都在希望透過金管一起洽談能夠對國家的選手以這樣的模式來保障這個選手萬一受到運動的傷害所以現在進行的狀況怎麼樣我就直接問啦比較具體的問題下一次國際的盃賽會不會再有這樣的狀況發生\n763962\t780514\t你能不能保證下一次國際的盃賽不會再有這樣子什麼3萬5萬禮賠金的狀況發生因為這部分政府都直接聯繫下一次如果以籃球的部分是11月份應該在這之前我們有可以跟保險公司洽商﹖可以處理好那請教女籃的部分呢你有沒有看到先聽部長先聽本席吧問題問完\n787279\t812219\t有沒有看到那個時候我們男子的這個球員他在臉書上發言的時候居然還有女籃的球員來下面留言說哈原來你們還有保險喔那網路上的民眾一炸鍋喔原來是有保險三萬五萬對於女子籃球來講這已經是一個很好的待遇了那就代表女子籃球更沒有那還有以國家隊來講本席的狀況本席是愛運動的我相信部長也是\n813280\t835355\t喜歡運動的人對於我們的這種中華隊只要能夠代表國家代表出隊的都好那辦職業咧包括現在男子排球女子排球他也有辦職業運動啊他也有職業聯賽啊那這些職業聯賽如果說未來男子排球女子排球他們也要出賽的時候能不能也協助他們有一個合格合理的保險\n837629\t855020\t還是只限說南南南棒這種關注大的觀眾多的票房多的號召力強的網路聲量高的我們重視那其他的聲量小的沒有什麼比相對現在比較沒有辦法有那麼多球迷的可是他是值得我們培養的我們就不重視是我想應該不會吧\n857020\t877527\t最近幾位都是比較因為有職業選手 職業選手的薪資待遇差異很大職業選手大嘛 所以職業選手的這部分但我們現在講的是說 如果說要是同仁 辦職業運動男子排球聯賽女子排球聯賽也很多人關注啊當然他們不是完全的職業運動 但辦職業運動啊\n880711\t882013\t市長,您的態度是什麼?\n898215\t925504\t現在目前一般選手也許都不是領薪資的選手也不少這方面是我們有關在這方面運動的一般保險可能要分了幾個類型來努力本席同意所以我剛才講除了說第一級比較健全的中華職棒或是男藍或者是第二級半職業運動以及現在沒有職業運動但是一樣會是國家代表隊他應該是有這個等級但是我們之前的應該是國民體育法吧\n926064\t930270\t阿體育法反正就確定就是只要是能夠擔任我們中華隊的\n931550\t933411\t委員這部份這個組長很積極也朝這樣方向在努力\n959241\t961565\t本期會持續追也希望署長真的交出成績單\n","txt":"主席謝謝麻煩請潘部長部長早部長早部長我想我們很多人在網路上都有看到一個高中生這個特教生在課堂上面跟老師的一個衝突是部長有看到這影片嗎我有看\n你什麼時候知道的?昨天?\n在這個過程裡面當然第一一開始的時候老師這邊有講到說這個同學坐在第一排那後來這同學就直接當老師的面罵了五字經然後動手這一些您都有看到那我們現在就想要探討幾個比較重點的部分就是說特普這個普特融合的一個狀況那現在上路但是會不會這只是個案還是這是通案\n我想站在教育部長的立場,我先請教您對於這個老師的處置來講,您覺得可以嗎?我跟委員報告,行為對象是我們特教孩子,也了解到他是在情緒這方面從過往學校所了解到掌握到的,他就是一個比較有這方面傾向甚至有暴力\n主席\n委員會主席\n普特融合這個已經是一個世界發展的趨勢但是這個理念要落實其實是要有相當大的資源跟投入來協助普特融合後不管對我們特教的孩子或在普通班進行教學的老師這個才能夠落實這一段否則師生面對這個挑戰是非常的大\n市長我想先兩個重點第一這個老師他在被動就並沒有做任何再進一步的一個去不管是說跟學生的這樣的一個互動其實某種程度上我覺得看到這個老師他其實非常被動的沒有讓自己陷入在更危險的一個狀況那有人就講啊就說難道這個老師一開始不知道他是特教生嗎這有沒有去了解\n所以現在就講是說當普特融合的時候當一個班級裡面有特教生有過去有講是說避免標籤化所以說不要盡可能不要讓大家知道說誰是特教生誰不是特教生但是連老師都不知道嗎\n那這樣的話對於第一線的教育工作者來講他是不是就會沒有辦法掌握一個班級的現實的狀況而反而造成這樣子危險的情況 層出不窮部長你認為呢如果是特教孩子這個從IEP的評估都不是一個人一個老師\n我們要不要避免我們第一線的教育工作者\n委員我跟委員報告因為現在是這個學年度的第二學期學生應該不是突然在這個班級內那我剛才跟委員報告說在學生的輔導上那個IEP的評估的工作本來就是一個team的概念那你任教的老師這不是秘密只是老師不要在班級教學指導學生的時候讓孩子被特別\n但我相信以這個學校我當然可以請同仁再進一步瞭解老師是不是瞭解我相信以剛才跟委員報告的時空不太可能是不瞭解但是我應該提醒到一段我想這個我們未來應該跟縣市學校再強化的\n就是師生互動一起碰到這些特教孩子的一些處理的應變的原則其實這一點對老師來講是也蠻必要的因為就我所了解到的這個可能是學生跟老師在老師有一些規範的用詞啦可能對這個孩子也許特殊的孩子就是這樣有一些跟他認知不一樣\n部長,本期為什麼會給你那麼多時間來解釋,其實要說明的就是我們也希望在第一線教育工作者他的一個教授權是受到保障的,我們也不希望這樣的一個暴力行為持續的發生,對不對?\n新聞新聞新聞新聞新聞新聞新聞新聞新聞新聞新聞新聞新聞新聞新聞新聞新聞新聞新聞新聞新聞新聞新聞新聞新聞新聞新聞新聞新聞新聞新聞新聞新聞新聞新聞新聞新聞新聞新聞新聞新聞新聞新聞新聞\n就是老師在合理常態的管教的這部分我們要賦予這個自衛事項的修訂就是準確違法事項等於說過去老師最怕的就是說比如管教了孩子結果是正常的正當的但是被家長、被學生來舉報、申請\n：洪孟楷\n委員可以 這個我剛才跟委員報告輔導與管教辦法的注意事項是全面性當然這個也包含\n我們要不要針對這個事件因為現在已經是全國的事件什麼時候我們找各縣市政府教育局大家共同來開會針對這個個案避免後續的事情發生的精進檢討一個月內教育部召集各縣市政府教育局我覺得有些時候是case study說實在話我們就是要越來越好\n我們也希望這樣的事情不要再發生我完全認同委員的這個建議謝謝部長一個月內召集各縣市政府教育局針對這樣的一個個案避免類似的狀況再發生好不好再來部長每年我們都會討論到這個學習歷程檔案學習歷程就每次要升高中升大學嘛對不對那就已經又再重複我覺得好像這已經是輪迴了\n每年大家都講說學習歷程檔案輪軍備競賽啊你知道現在坊間最近的行情是多少錢嗎一套有沒有看媒體有媒體報導啊一套20萬\n一套20萬 這個真的是冤枉錢部長 我相信不是你去推啦我現在講 我也相信說我們學習電產案立出來不是說要讓人家做業績但是確實每年持續循環 這也不是委員第一次在這邊質詢這個議題我相信你回答都回答很多次了 但是到目前為止都還有啊不管是自由時報 不管是UDN 不管是聯合新聞網 都有寫到\n代價20萬銀隊收費上萬元學習歷程做代寫軍備競賽還有坊間喊套20萬商品化造假亂象重生\n我跟你們報告齁\n如果學習歷程檔案用以推增就是現在馬上往下就是大學入學推增階段在過往就是有所謂的備審資料因為推增不可能只看學測成績嘛否則就不叫推增了我們現在問的是你覺得說學習歷程檔案到底現在推了這幾年利大於弊還是弊大於利應該是利大於弊還是利大於弊但是每年都還是有這種喊價軍備競賽這怎麼講過去在備審資料然後你剛剛講是說你都沒有去我們有些時候都還講語情分析啊\n每個部會現在都在做語情分析編錢給媒體公關公司每天收集相關部會結果那麼重要的一個20萬的一個新聞你沒有看到我有看到我只是表達你剛又說沒看到不是我是說我從來不答不支持這樣的做事我們沒有很支持這樣的做事但是今天就是教育部設計的這個制度讓這樣的亂象持續重生所以本是一開始開宗明義才講是說每年到了這個時候要升學前\n因為委員對這個議題也關心我剛才為什麼會說過往就有備審資料備審資料照樣可以做類似的事情所以剛才委員提到學習基礎談判我們有沒有檢討因為我知道朝偉這個禮拜三就會排我們去科技大樓考察也會看這個相關的議題所以禮拜三你們也會做專案報告但重點在於是是不是\n家長們反正叫一叫喊一喊你說力大於弊部長一句力大於弊所以持續推那家長反正就是每年到了就是看誰的資源多誰能參加國際的營隊誰能怎麼樣他就履歷比較漂亮資源少的學生他就永遠沒有辦法有這樣的先起跑點就已經輸別人\n我們現在懲罰了幾個學校?\n您剛提的本席認同不能影響公平\n好部長所以說你等下那相關資料會後給本席一份本席會持續追這個議題那最後一分鐘的時間我確認一下現在有講到是說之前我們關心這個男籃的部分保險費男子籃球男籃那個時候球員講說只有保五萬元的失能險甚至有講說打中華隊理賠金額只有三萬元那對於我們國人來講這種感情是沒有辦法\n請教現在溝通的狀況怎麼樣?\n對,跟我們報告,確實未來我們這些國家隊的選手的保險籃球的部分就只要是國家隊因為涉及到是職業球員的部分是這個關鍵這部分我們就會比照棒球音樂有職業球員的方式加保\n現在就是教育部會跟金管會來因為有幾個保險公司目前我們都在希望透過金管一起洽談能夠對國家的選手以這樣的模式來保障這個選手萬一受到運動的傷害所以現在進行的狀況怎麼樣我就直接問啦比較具體的問題下一次國際的盃賽會不會再有這樣的狀況發生\n你能不能保證下一次國際的盃賽不會再有這樣子什麼3萬5萬禮賠金的狀況發生因為這部分政府都直接聯繫下一次如果以籃球的部分是11月份應該在這之前我們有可以跟保險公司洽商﹖可以處理好那請教女籃的部分呢你有沒有看到先聽部長先聽本席吧問題問完\n有沒有看到那個時候我們男子的這個球員他在臉書上發言的時候居然還有女籃的球員來下面留言說哈原來你們還有保險喔那網路上的民眾一炸鍋喔原來是有保險三萬五萬對於女子籃球來講這已經是一個很好的待遇了那就代表女子籃球更沒有那還有以國家隊來講本席的狀況本席是愛運動的我相信部長也是\n喜歡運動的人對於我們的這種中華隊只要能夠代表國家代表出隊的都好那辦職業咧包括現在男子排球女子排球他也有辦職業運動啊他也有職業聯賽啊那這些職業聯賽如果說未來男子排球女子排球他們也要出賽的時候能不能也協助他們有一個合格合理的保險\n還是只限說南南南棒這種關注大的觀眾多的票房多的號召力強的網路聲量高的我們重視那其他的聲量小的沒有什麼比相對現在比較沒有辦法有那麼多球迷的可是他是值得我們培養的我們就不重視是我想應該不會吧\n最近幾位都是比較因為有職業選手 職業選手的薪資待遇差異很大職業選手大嘛 所以職業選手的這部分但我們現在講的是說 如果說要是同仁 辦職業運動男子排球聯賽女子排球聯賽也很多人關注啊當然他們不是完全的職業運動 但辦職業運動啊\n市長,您的態度是什麼?\n現在目前一般選手也許都不是領薪資的選手也不少這方面是我們有關在這方面運動的一般保險可能要分了幾個類型來努力本席同意所以我剛才講除了說第一級比較健全的中華職棒或是男藍或者是第二級半職業運動以及現在沒有職業運動但是一樣會是國家代表隊他應該是有這個等級但是我們之前的應該是國民體育法吧\n阿體育法反正就確定就是只要是能夠擔任我們中華隊的\n委員這部份這個組長很積極也朝這樣方向在努力\n本期會持續追也希望署長真的交出成績單\n","vtt":"WEBVTT\n\n00:09.234 --> 00:28.106\n主席謝謝麻煩請潘部長部長早部長早部長我想我們很多人在網路上都有看到一個高中生這個特教生在課堂上面跟老師的一個衝突是部長有看到這影片嗎我有看\n\n00:28.922 --> 00:30.303\n你什麼時候知道的?昨天?\n\n00:43.830 --> 01:09.928\n在這個過程裡面當然第一一開始的時候老師這邊有講到說這個同學坐在第一排那後來這同學就直接當老師的面罵了五字經然後動手這一些您都有看到那我們現在就想要探討幾個比較重點的部分就是說特普這個普特融合的一個狀況那現在上路但是會不會這只是個案還是這是通案\n\n01:10.708 --> 01:33.621\n我想站在教育部長的立場,我先請教您對於這個老師的處置來講,您覺得可以嗎?我跟委員報告,行為對象是我們特教孩子,也了解到他是在情緒這方面從過往學校所了解到掌握到的,他就是一個比較有這方面傾向甚至有暴力\n\n01:34.301 --> 01:34.541\n主席\n\n01:49.560 --> 01:49.660\n委員會主席\n\n02:14.560 --> 02:34.533\n普特融合這個已經是一個世界發展的趨勢但是這個理念要落實其實是要有相當大的資源跟投入來協助普特融合後不管對我們特教的孩子或在普通班進行教學的老師這個才能夠落實這一段否則師生面對這個挑戰是非常的大\n\n02:35.153 --> 02:57.897\n市長我想先兩個重點第一這個老師他在被動就並沒有做任何再進一步的一個去不管是說跟學生的這樣的一個互動其實某種程度上我覺得看到這個老師他其實非常被動的沒有讓自己陷入在更危險的一個狀況那有人就講啊就說難道這個老師一開始不知道他是特教生嗎這有沒有去了解\n\n03:05.249 --> 03:18.659\n所以現在就講是說當普特融合的時候當一個班級裡面有特教生有過去有講是說避免標籤化所以說不要盡可能不要讓大家知道說誰是特教生誰不是特教生但是連老師都不知道嗎\n\n03:19.480 --> 03:35.980\n那這樣的話對於第一線的教育工作者來講他是不是就會沒有辦法掌握一個班級的現實的狀況而反而造成這樣子危險的情況層出不窮部長你認為呢如果是特教孩子這個從IEP的評估都不是一個人一個老師\n\n03:36.741 --> 03:38.922\n我們要不要避免我們第一線的教育工作者\n\n04:05.669 --> 04:13.195\n委員我跟委員報告因為現在是這個學年度的第二學期學生應該不是突然在這個班級內那我剛才跟委員報告說在學生的輔導上那個IEP的評估的工作本來就是一個team的概念那你任教的老師這不是秘密只是老師不要在班級教學指導學生的時候讓孩子被特別\n\n04:30.048 --> 04:42.575\n但我相信以這個學校我當然可以請同仁再進一步瞭解老師是不是瞭解我相信以剛才跟委員報告的時空不太可能是不瞭解但是我應該提醒到一段我想這個我們未來應該跟縣市學校再強化的\n\n04:46.437 --> 05:07.282\n就是師生互動一起碰到這些特教孩子的一些處理的應變的原則其實這一點對老師來講是也蠻必要的因為就我所了解到的這個可能是學生跟老師在老師有一些規範的用詞啦可能對這個孩子也許特殊的孩子就是這樣有一些跟他認知不一樣\n\n05:07.942 --> 05:22.070\n部長,本期為什麼會給你那麼多時間來解釋,其實要說明的就是我們也希望在第一線教育工作者他的一個教授權是受到保障的,我們也不希望這樣的一個暴力行為持續的發生,對不對?\n\n05:23.230 --> 05:25.511\n新聞新聞新聞新聞新聞新聞新聞新聞新聞新聞新聞新聞新聞新聞新聞新聞新聞新聞新聞新聞新聞新聞新聞新聞新聞新聞新聞新聞新聞新聞新聞新聞新聞新聞新聞新聞新聞新聞新聞新聞新聞新聞新聞新聞\n\n05:42.896 --> 05:58.800\n就是老師在合理常態的管教的這部分我們要賦予這個自衛事項的修訂就是準確違法事項等於說過去老師最怕的就是說比如管教了孩子結果是正常的正當的但是被家長、被學生來舉報、申請\n\n06:01.041 --> 06:01.261\n：洪孟楷\n\n06:24.073 --> 06:25.914\n委員可以這個我剛才跟委員報告輔導與管教辦法的注意事項是全面性當然這個也包含\n\n06:44.339 --> 06:51.342\n我們要不要針對這個事件因為現在已經是全國的事件什麼時候我們找各縣市政府教育局大家共同來開會針對這個個案避免後續的事情發生的精進檢討一個月內教育部召集各縣市政府教育局我覺得有些時候是casestudy說實在話我們就是要越來越好\n\n07:07.868 --> 07:30.060\n我們也希望這樣的事情不要再發生我完全認同委員的這個建議謝謝部長一個月內召集各縣市政府教育局針對這樣的一個個案避免類似的狀況再發生好不好再來部長每年我們都會討論到這個學習歷程檔案學習歷程就每次要升高中升大學嘛對不對那就已經又再重複我覺得好像這已經是輪迴了\n\n07:33.257 --> 07:42.491\n每年大家都講說學習歷程檔案輪軍備競賽啊你知道現在坊間最近的行情是多少錢嗎一套有沒有看媒體有媒體報導啊一套20萬\n\n07:47.301 --> 08:12.882\n一套20萬這個真的是冤枉錢部長我相信不是你去推啦我現在講我也相信說我們學習電產案立出來不是說要讓人家做業績但是確實每年持續循環這也不是委員第一次在這邊質詢這個議題我相信你回答都回答很多次了但是到目前為止都還有啊不管是自由時報不管是UDN不管是聯合新聞網都有寫到\n\n08:13.562 --> 08:16.243\n代價20萬銀隊收費上萬元學習歷程做代寫軍備競賽還有坊間喊套20萬商品化造假亂象重生\n\n08:26.493 --> 08:26.613\n我跟你們報告齁\n\n08:48.835 --> 09:10.999\n如果學習歷程檔案用以推增就是現在馬上往下就是大學入學推增階段在過往就是有所謂的備審資料因為推增不可能只看學測成績嘛否則就不叫推增了我們現在問的是你覺得說學習歷程檔案到底現在推了這幾年利大於弊還是弊大於利應該是利大於弊還是利大於弊但是每年都還是有這種喊價軍備競賽這怎麼講過去在備審資料然後你剛剛講是說你都沒有去我們有些時候都還講語情分析啊\n\n09:19.486 --> 09:47.501\n每個部會現在都在做語情分析編錢給媒體公關公司每天收集相關部會結果那麼重要的一個20萬的一個新聞你沒有看到我有看到我只是表達你剛又說沒看到不是我是說我從來不答不支持這樣的做事我們沒有很支持這樣的做事但是今天就是教育部設計的這個制度讓這樣的亂象持續重生所以本是一開始開宗明義才講是說每年到了這個時候要升學前\n\n09:48.221 --> 10:10.416\n因為委員對這個議題也關心我剛才為什麼會說過往就有備審資料備審資料照樣可以做類似的事情所以剛才委員提到學習基礎談判我們有沒有檢討因為我知道朝偉這個禮拜三就會排我們去科技大樓考察也會看這個相關的議題所以禮拜三你們也會做專案報告但重點在於是是不是\n\n10:13.498 --> 10:33.745\n家長們反正叫一叫喊一喊你說力大於弊部長一句力大於弊所以持續推那家長反正就是每年到了就是看誰的資源多誰能參加國際的營隊誰能怎麼樣他就履歷比較漂亮資源少的學生他就永遠沒有辦法有這樣的先起跑點就已經輸別人\n\n10:34.085 --> 10:35.086\n我們現在懲罰了幾個學校?\n\n10:53.246 --> 10:53.686\n您剛提的本席認同不能影響公平\n\n11:21.562 --> 11:47.833\n好部長所以說你等下那相關資料會後給本席一份本席會持續追這個議題那最後一分鐘的時間我確認一下現在有講到是說之前我們關心這個男籃的部分保險費男子籃球男籃那個時候球員講說只有保五萬元的失能險甚至有講說打中華隊理賠金額只有三萬元那對於我們國人來講這種感情是沒有辦法\n\n11:48.573 --> 11:49.334\n請教現在溝通的狀況怎麼樣?\n\n12:05.166 --> 12:07.688\n對,跟我們報告,確實未來我們這些國家隊的選手的保險籃球的部分就只要是國家隊因為涉及到是職業球員的部分是這個關鍵這部分我們就會比照棒球音樂有職業球員的方式加保\n\n12:22.038 --> 12:31.469\n現在就是教育部會跟金管會來因為有幾個保險公司目前我們都在希望透過金管一起洽談能夠對國家的選手以這樣的模式來保障這個選手萬一受到運動的傷害所以現在進行的狀況怎麼樣我就直接問啦比較具體的問題下一次國際的盃賽會不會再有這樣的狀況發生\n\n12:43.962 --> 13:00.514\n你能不能保證下一次國際的盃賽不會再有這樣子什麼3萬5萬禮賠金的狀況發生因為這部分政府都直接聯繫下一次如果以籃球的部分是11月份應該在這之前我們有可以跟保險公司洽商﹖可以處理好那請教女籃的部分呢你有沒有看到先聽部長先聽本席吧問題問完\n\n13:07.279 --> 13:32.219\n有沒有看到那個時候我們男子的這個球員他在臉書上發言的時候居然還有女籃的球員來下面留言說哈原來你們還有保險喔那網路上的民眾一炸鍋喔原來是有保險三萬五萬對於女子籃球來講這已經是一個很好的待遇了那就代表女子籃球更沒有那還有以國家隊來講本席的狀況本席是愛運動的我相信部長也是\n\n13:33.280 --> 13:55.355\n喜歡運動的人對於我們的這種中華隊只要能夠代表國家代表出隊的都好那辦職業咧包括現在男子排球女子排球他也有辦職業運動啊他也有職業聯賽啊那這些職業聯賽如果說未來男子排球女子排球他們也要出賽的時候能不能也協助他們有一個合格合理的保險\n\n13:57.629 --> 14:15.020\n還是只限說南南南棒這種關注大的觀眾多的票房多的號召力強的網路聲量高的我們重視那其他的聲量小的沒有什麼比相對現在比較沒有辦法有那麼多球迷的可是他是值得我們培養的我們就不重視是我想應該不會吧\n\n14:17.020 --> 14:37.527\n最近幾位都是比較因為有職業選手職業選手的薪資待遇差異很大職業選手大嘛所以職業選手的這部分但我們現在講的是說如果說要是同仁辦職業運動男子排球聯賽女子排球聯賽也很多人關注啊當然他們不是完全的職業運動但辦職業運動啊\n\n14:40.711 --> 14:42.013\n市長,您的態度是什麼?\n\n14:58.215 --> 15:25.504\n現在目前一般選手也許都不是領薪資的選手也不少這方面是我們有關在這方面運動的一般保險可能要分了幾個類型來努力本席同意所以我剛才講除了說第一級比較健全的中華職棒或是男藍或者是第二級半職業運動以及現在沒有職業運動但是一樣會是國家代表隊他應該是有這個等級但是我們之前的應該是國民體育法吧\n\n15:26.064 --> 15:30.270\n阿體育法反正就確定就是只要是能夠擔任我們中華隊的\n\n15:31.550 --> 15:33.411\n委員這部份這個組長很積極也朝這樣方向在努力\n\n15:59.241 --> 16:01.565\n本期會持續追也希望署長真的交出成績單\n\n","segments":[{"start":9.234,"end":28.106,"text":"主席謝謝麻煩請潘部長部長早部長早部長我想我們很多人在網路上都有看到一個高中生這個特教生在課堂上面跟老師的一個衝突是部長有看到這影片嗎我有看"},{"start":28.922,"end":30.303,"text":"你什麼時候知道的?昨天?"},{"start":43.83,"end":69.928,"text":"在這個過程裡面當然第一一開始的時候老師這邊有講到說這個同學坐在第一排那後來這同學就直接當老師的面罵了五字經然後動手這一些您都有看到那我們現在就想要探討幾個比較重點的部分就是說特普這個普特融合的一個狀況那現在上路但是會不會這只是個案還是這是通案"},{"start":70.708,"end":93.621,"text":"我想站在教育部長的立場,我先請教您對於這個老師的處置來講,您覺得可以嗎?我跟委員報告,行為對象是我們特教孩子,也了解到他是在情緒這方面從過往學校所了解到掌握到的,他就是一個比較有這方面傾向甚至有暴力"},{"start":94.301,"end":94.541,"text":"主席"},{"start":109.56,"end":109.66,"text":"委員會主席"},{"start":134.56,"end":154.533,"text":"普特融合這個已經是一個世界發展的趨勢但是這個理念要落實其實是要有相當大的資源跟投入來協助普特融合後不管對我們特教的孩子或在普通班進行教學的老師這個才能夠落實這一段否則師生面對這個挑戰是非常的大"},{"start":155.153,"end":177.897,"text":"市長我想先兩個重點第一這個老師他在被動就並沒有做任何再進一步的一個去不管是說跟學生的這樣的一個互動其實某種程度上我覺得看到這個老師他其實非常被動的沒有讓自己陷入在更危險的一個狀況那有人就講啊就說難道這個老師一開始不知道他是特教生嗎這有沒有去了解"},{"start":185.249,"end":198.659,"text":"所以現在就講是說當普特融合的時候當一個班級裡面有特教生有過去有講是說避免標籤化所以說不要盡可能不要讓大家知道說誰是特教生誰不是特教生但是連老師都不知道嗎"},{"start":199.48,"end":215.98,"text":"那這樣的話對於第一線的教育工作者來講他是不是就會沒有辦法掌握一個班級的現實的狀況而反而造成這樣子危險的情況 層出不窮部長你認為呢如果是特教孩子這個從IEP的評估都不是一個人一個老師"},{"start":216.741,"end":218.922,"text":"我們要不要避免我們第一線的教育工作者"},{"start":245.669,"end":253.195,"text":"委員我跟委員報告因為現在是這個學年度的第二學期學生應該不是突然在這個班級內那我剛才跟委員報告說在學生的輔導上那個IEP的評估的工作本來就是一個team的概念那你任教的老師這不是秘密只是老師不要在班級教學指導學生的時候讓孩子被特別"},{"start":270.048,"end":282.575,"text":"但我相信以這個學校我當然可以請同仁再進一步瞭解老師是不是瞭解我相信以剛才跟委員報告的時空不太可能是不瞭解但是我應該提醒到一段我想這個我們未來應該跟縣市學校再強化的"},{"start":286.437,"end":307.282,"text":"就是師生互動一起碰到這些特教孩子的一些處理的應變的原則其實這一點對老師來講是也蠻必要的因為就我所了解到的這個可能是學生跟老師在老師有一些規範的用詞啦可能對這個孩子也許特殊的孩子就是這樣有一些跟他認知不一樣"},{"start":307.942,"end":322.07,"text":"部長,本期為什麼會給你那麼多時間來解釋,其實要說明的就是我們也希望在第一線教育工作者他的一個教授權是受到保障的,我們也不希望這樣的一個暴力行為持續的發生,對不對?"},{"start":323.23,"end":325.511,"text":"新聞新聞新聞新聞新聞新聞新聞新聞新聞新聞新聞新聞新聞新聞新聞新聞新聞新聞新聞新聞新聞新聞新聞新聞新聞新聞新聞新聞新聞新聞新聞新聞新聞新聞新聞新聞新聞新聞新聞新聞新聞新聞新聞新聞"},{"start":342.896,"end":358.8,"text":"就是老師在合理常態的管教的這部分我們要賦予這個自衛事項的修訂就是準確違法事項等於說過去老師最怕的就是說比如管教了孩子結果是正常的正當的但是被家長、被學生來舉報、申請"},{"start":361.041,"end":361.261,"text":"：洪孟楷"},{"start":384.073,"end":385.914,"text":"委員可以 這個我剛才跟委員報告輔導與管教辦法的注意事項是全面性當然這個也包含"},{"start":404.339,"end":411.342,"text":"我們要不要針對這個事件因為現在已經是全國的事件什麼時候我們找各縣市政府教育局大家共同來開會針對這個個案避免後續的事情發生的精進檢討一個月內教育部召集各縣市政府教育局我覺得有些時候是case study說實在話我們就是要越來越好"},{"start":427.868,"end":450.06,"text":"我們也希望這樣的事情不要再發生我完全認同委員的這個建議謝謝部長一個月內召集各縣市政府教育局針對這樣的一個個案避免類似的狀況再發生好不好再來部長每年我們都會討論到這個學習歷程檔案學習歷程就每次要升高中升大學嘛對不對那就已經又再重複我覺得好像這已經是輪迴了"},{"start":453.257,"end":462.491,"text":"每年大家都講說學習歷程檔案輪軍備競賽啊你知道現在坊間最近的行情是多少錢嗎一套有沒有看媒體有媒體報導啊一套20萬"},{"start":467.301,"end":492.882,"text":"一套20萬 這個真的是冤枉錢部長 我相信不是你去推啦我現在講 我也相信說我們學習電產案立出來不是說要讓人家做業績但是確實每年持續循環 這也不是委員第一次在這邊質詢這個議題我相信你回答都回答很多次了 但是到目前為止都還有啊不管是自由時報 不管是UDN 不管是聯合新聞網 都有寫到"},{"start":493.562,"end":496.243,"text":"代價20萬銀隊收費上萬元學習歷程做代寫軍備競賽還有坊間喊套20萬商品化造假亂象重生"},{"start":506.493,"end":506.613,"text":"我跟你們報告齁"},{"start":528.835,"end":550.999,"text":"如果學習歷程檔案用以推增就是現在馬上往下就是大學入學推增階段在過往就是有所謂的備審資料因為推增不可能只看學測成績嘛否則就不叫推增了我們現在問的是你覺得說學習歷程檔案到底現在推了這幾年利大於弊還是弊大於利應該是利大於弊還是利大於弊但是每年都還是有這種喊價軍備競賽這怎麼講過去在備審資料然後你剛剛講是說你都沒有去我們有些時候都還講語情分析啊"},{"start":559.486,"end":587.501,"text":"每個部會現在都在做語情分析編錢給媒體公關公司每天收集相關部會結果那麼重要的一個20萬的一個新聞你沒有看到我有看到我只是表達你剛又說沒看到不是我是說我從來不答不支持這樣的做事我們沒有很支持這樣的做事但是今天就是教育部設計的這個制度讓這樣的亂象持續重生所以本是一開始開宗明義才講是說每年到了這個時候要升學前"},{"start":588.221,"end":610.416,"text":"因為委員對這個議題也關心我剛才為什麼會說過往就有備審資料備審資料照樣可以做類似的事情所以剛才委員提到學習基礎談判我們有沒有檢討因為我知道朝偉這個禮拜三就會排我們去科技大樓考察也會看這個相關的議題所以禮拜三你們也會做專案報告但重點在於是是不是"},{"start":613.498,"end":633.745,"text":"家長們反正叫一叫喊一喊你說力大於弊部長一句力大於弊所以持續推那家長反正就是每年到了就是看誰的資源多誰能參加國際的營隊誰能怎麼樣他就履歷比較漂亮資源少的學生他就永遠沒有辦法有這樣的先起跑點就已經輸別人"},{"start":634.085,"end":635.086,"text":"我們現在懲罰了幾個學校?"},{"start":653.246,"end":653.686,"text":"您剛提的本席認同不能影響公平"},{"start":681.562,"end":707.833,"text":"好部長所以說你等下那相關資料會後給本席一份本席會持續追這個議題那最後一分鐘的時間我確認一下現在有講到是說之前我們關心這個男籃的部分保險費男子籃球男籃那個時候球員講說只有保五萬元的失能險甚至有講說打中華隊理賠金額只有三萬元那對於我們國人來講這種感情是沒有辦法"},{"start":708.573,"end":709.334,"text":"請教現在溝通的狀況怎麼樣?"},{"start":725.166,"end":727.688,"text":"對,跟我們報告,確實未來我們這些國家隊的選手的保險籃球的部分就只要是國家隊因為涉及到是職業球員的部分是這個關鍵這部分我們就會比照棒球音樂有職業球員的方式加保"},{"start":742.038,"end":751.469,"text":"現在就是教育部會跟金管會來因為有幾個保險公司目前我們都在希望透過金管一起洽談能夠對國家的選手以這樣的模式來保障這個選手萬一受到運動的傷害所以現在進行的狀況怎麼樣我就直接問啦比較具體的問題下一次國際的盃賽會不會再有這樣的狀況發生"},{"start":763.962,"end":780.514,"text":"你能不能保證下一次國際的盃賽不會再有這樣子什麼3萬5萬禮賠金的狀況發生因為這部分政府都直接聯繫下一次如果以籃球的部分是11月份應該在這之前我們有可以跟保險公司洽商﹖可以處理好那請教女籃的部分呢你有沒有看到先聽部長先聽本席吧問題問完"},{"start":787.279,"end":812.219,"text":"有沒有看到那個時候我們男子的這個球員他在臉書上發言的時候居然還有女籃的球員來下面留言說哈原來你們還有保險喔那網路上的民眾一炸鍋喔原來是有保險三萬五萬對於女子籃球來講這已經是一個很好的待遇了那就代表女子籃球更沒有那還有以國家隊來講本席的狀況本席是愛運動的我相信部長也是"},{"start":813.28,"end":835.355,"text":"喜歡運動的人對於我們的這種中華隊只要能夠代表國家代表出隊的都好那辦職業咧包括現在男子排球女子排球他也有辦職業運動啊他也有職業聯賽啊那這些職業聯賽如果說未來男子排球女子排球他們也要出賽的時候能不能也協助他們有一個合格合理的保險"},{"start":837.629,"end":855.02,"text":"還是只限說南南南棒這種關注大的觀眾多的票房多的號召力強的網路聲量高的我們重視那其他的聲量小的沒有什麼比相對現在比較沒有辦法有那麼多球迷的可是他是值得我們培養的我們就不重視是我想應該不會吧"},{"start":857.02,"end":877.527,"text":"最近幾位都是比較因為有職業選手 職業選手的薪資待遇差異很大職業選手大嘛 所以職業選手的這部分但我們現在講的是說 如果說要是同仁 辦職業運動男子排球聯賽女子排球聯賽也很多人關注啊當然他們不是完全的職業運動 但辦職業運動啊"},{"start":880.711,"end":882.013,"text":"市長,您的態度是什麼?"},{"start":898.215,"end":925.504,"text":"現在目前一般選手也許都不是領薪資的選手也不少這方面是我們有關在這方面運動的一般保險可能要分了幾個類型來努力本席同意所以我剛才講除了說第一級比較健全的中華職棒或是男藍或者是第二級半職業運動以及現在沒有職業運動但是一樣會是國家代表隊他應該是有這個等級但是我們之前的應該是國民體育法吧"},{"start":926.064,"end":930.27,"text":"阿體育法反正就確定就是只要是能夠擔任我們中華隊的"},{"start":931.55,"end":933.411,"text":"委員這部份這個組長很積極也朝這樣方向在努力"},{"start":959.241,"end":961.565,"text":"本期會持續追也希望署長真的交出成績單"}]}}}}