{"id":149198,"url":"https://ivod.ly.gov.tw/Play/Clip/1M/149198","video_url":"https://ivod-lyvod.cdn.hinet.net/vod_1/_definst_/mp4:1MClips/ad9f873b941d2ddd6a869186d9037d77f012038cf3c9e62ff8ba9b0039caa7a6cad5840be4f441205ea18f28b6918d91.mp4/playlist.m3u8","委員名稱":"涂權吉","委員發言時間":"09:56:05 - 10:06:37","影片長度":"00:10:32","會議時間":"2024-03-04T09:00:00+08:00","會議名稱":"立法院第11屆第1會期社會福利及衛生環境委員會第2次全體委員會議（事由：邀請行政院食品安全辦公室、衛生福利部部長、食品藥物管理署就「食安五環執行狀況及蘇丹紅事件處理之檢討」進行專題報告，並備質詢。）","meet":{"tmpMeeting":null,"title":"第11屆第1會期社會福利及衛生環境委員會第2次全體委員會議","term":11,"type":"委員會","sessionPeriod":1,"sessionTimes":2,"committees":[26],"id":"委員會-11-1-26-2"},"date":"2024-03-04","duration":632,"end_time":"2024-03-04T10:06:37+08:00","start_time":"2024-03-04T09:56:05+08:00","features":["ai-transcript","gazette"],"type":"Clip","gazette":{"lineno":363,"blocks":[["涂委員權吉：（9時56分）謝謝召委，我請部長跟署長。"],["主席：好，請部長跟署長。"],["薛部長瑞元：委員好。"],["涂委員權吉：部長、署長，本席今天在委員會第一次質詢好，針對2020到2023年十大民怨事件，我們看一下民進黨政府這十大民怨事件，前五名中就有三個跟衛福部有關係，而且其中兩個還關係到食安，並高居第一名跟第四名。現在再加上蘇丹紅事件，我覺得國人對食品安全的信心可以說是全面崩潰。可惜在2月22號陳建仁院長的食安專報跟答詢之中，我們看不到民進黨政府針對食安問題的謙卑跟檢討，而是看到民進黨執政8年了，還在找馬英九前總統來做救援投手。人家說什麼「馬維拉」，以前洋基的救援投手李維拉很有名，後來民進黨執政以後，我們這個「馬維拉」也是一個有名的救援投手，但是不知道看在百姓的眼裡是怎樣，這個民怨其實一直在積累。","我們現在回到今天的主題，針對這次的蘇丹紅事件，這個事件的爆發是由雲林縣政府接獲民眾的舉報開始，也就是蘇丹紅這個違法染色劑的使用，我想請問一下，是不是已經都到了後市場端？這次由保欣企業進口的蘇丹紅危機，等於是突破了我們邊境查驗的層層防衛，而且在2023年9月的時候，你們就說要加強抽查比例甚至到50%，那為什麼還有這麼多的漏網之魚？請部長回答。"],["薛部長瑞元：的確啦，因為如果不是百分之百抽批的話，總是會有沒抽到的。當時我們並不知道這個發生的比例是多少，所以50%的抽批到底會有多少批有漏網之魚，我們在當時並不知道。現在是我們回溯，逐步地去做清查，才循線去看下游那邊到底是有多少。我們也感謝雲林縣衛生局能夠在後市場的部分因為有人檢舉，馬上去做了稽查，發現到的確有這個問題。"],["涂委員權吉：部長，我也知道，我的意思是，已經提升到50%，居然還有那麼多漏網之魚，我相信還有更多的未爆彈，現在一一在爆發。那我想請問一下，過去一年我們的邊境查驗總共查到幾件蘇丹紅？"],["薛部長瑞元：過去一年，就是112年度的時候，蘇丹紅是有7件，所有的不合格是22件，其中蘇丹紅是7件，其他大概都是農藥。"],["涂委員權吉：對，可是我們從你們的報告中並沒有看到這些相關資料。我想請問一下，過去一年其實在9月份，我們看到你們早就知情的有5件案例，後來我們也查了一下，2023年陸陸續續又爆發了4件，所以光邊境查驗就有9起，我不知道為什麼當初這個報告，還有陳建仁院長在食安總檢討中，從頭到尾都沒有提到蘇丹紅事件？"],["薛部長瑞元：因為那個時候還繼續在查，我們不知道它影響層面有多大，因為在去年是7件，後來到今年年初又多了兩件，變成9件。"],["涂委員權吉：所以邊境查驗那時候查到，並不需要提出檢討，甚至告知國人要注意這部分嗎？"],["薛部長瑞元：我們就是依照我們的一些規定逐步增加抽批的比例，後來100%抽批之後發現蘇丹紅的違規事件比例仍然是高，所以才全面……"],["涂委員權吉：我現在是擔心當初如果沒有雲林縣這個民眾舉報，我們政府早就知情，而且這不是首例，讓我們感覺政府要把今年2月民眾舉報的蘇丹紅事件當成首例來辦理。"],["薛部長瑞元：沒有，沒有，去年就已經100%抽批了，100%發現有的話，其實是我們在2月20日就全部暫停輸入。"],["涂委員權吉：部長，沒關係，其實邊境查驗已經查驗到9件，這9件裡面的佳廣國際，其實在1月份的邊境查驗就已經查到了，可是邊境查驗查到，結果居然在3月2日你們食藥署的新聞稿裡面，又說在地方政府的配合下，在後市場端又查到佳廣國際貿易的辣椒粉。1月份邊境查到，3月份居然在後市場端又有，邊境查到以後居然又進入市場，我不知道這到底是什麼原因？"],["薛部長瑞元：在邊境查到的部分，我剛剛有跟委員報告，其實我們全面禁止是在2月20日才全面禁止，但是去年的12月11日就已經是百分之一百……"],["涂委員權吉：我們1月份查到，沒有針對它下游的部分去追溯嗎？為什麼還會流到後市場端？"],["薛部長瑞元：不是，12月11日的話事實上是查驗百分之一百，如果查到就不准進口了，所以這個部分的話是不會有漏網之魚，這個是在更晚之前……"],["涂委員權吉：我覺得我要跟部長講一下，你們一直常常說這是個案問題……"],["薛部長瑞元：這不是個案……"],["涂委員權吉：我覺得這根本就是系統性……"],["薛部長瑞元：對。"],["涂委員權吉：真的是系統性出現了很大的問題。陳建仁院長一直自豪食安五環，說實在這食安五環真的是早就已經破功了，而且溯源、追溯早就失去它的功效。"],["薛部長瑞元：有啦，還是它的功效仍然存在，所以我們現在才能夠追出那麼多。當然，食安五環還是有改進的空間，我們也必須承認。"],["涂委員權吉：所以我覺得很多東西我們如果發現，還是要儘早來看怎麼檢討、怎麼改善。就行政院而言，明明蘇丹紅危機去年就已經爆發，可是我們看3次食安會報跟1次食安專報的總檢討，對於蘇丹紅真的是隻字未提。在近1年邊境就已經查驗到9件不合格，至少還有1件已經流入市面，而且現在已經陸續在爆發之中，我不知道為什麼這麼多的會議跟專案報告隻字未提蘇丹紅事件，然後等到民眾檢舉、爆發以後才讓這個事情被民眾知道，才重視這個健康食安的問題？"],["薛部長瑞元：因為有一些事件是必須要看累積的，1個月或2個月才發生1次……"],["涂委員權吉：主席，抱歉，可以給我2分鐘？"],["薛部長瑞元：我們會比較只是增加關注或稽查的比率，但是我們如果統計比方說以整個半年來看的話，它的數量跟以前去比的話就可能是高的，所以這個必須要經過一些比較。"],["涂委員權吉：所以部長，我希望很多東西大家真的要務實來做。像我一直想起那次陳建仁院長在立法院的報告，我覺得真的是牛皮吹破，現在食安事件陸陸續續爆發，而且還一直大內宣說食安五環做得有多好，現在我覺得真的是一個很大的諷刺。說實在話，當初聯合報就有寫，蔡政府才我國最大的系統危機，我覺得很多事情知道以後真的要趕快檢討……"],["薛部長瑞元：這不太公平啦。"],["涂委員權吉：不要沒有提出檢討而且毫無改善。然後我們看一下食安五環，你看這個五環：源頭控管、重建生產管理、加強查驗、加重惡意黑心廠商責任，最後才到全民監督食安，結果我們這次爆發居然是民眾檢舉，這是最後一環欸！所以表示我們的前四環完全螺絲鬆脫、執行根本不力，如果今天沒有民眾檢舉，這個事情怎麼會爆發？我們前四環是不是等於根本就是失效了？"],["薛部長瑞元：邊境就已經解決到了，所以會有加強抽批的動作。"],["涂委員權吉：所以我希望食安五環這個很好的政策真的需要好好地落實去做，而且對於國民、民眾的健康，我呼籲主管單位真的要為國民的健康好好地來把關。針對蘇丹紅還有食安的問題，希望衛福部還有食藥署針對這些問題好好地檢討改善，以及後續萬一有因為蘇丹紅造成健康的問題，我們一定要訂定一個良好的補救措施。"],["薛部長瑞元：好，謝謝。"],["主席（蘇委員清泉代）：謝謝涂委員，謝謝部長。","接續我們請王育敏委員。"]],"agenda":{"page_end":296,"meet_id":"委員會-11-1-26-2","speakers":["王育敏","陳昭姿","陳菁徽","廖偉翔","林月琴","涂權吉","邱鎮軍","黃秀芳","蘇清泉","盧縣一","劉建國","王正旭","楊曜","林淑芬","陳雪生","洪孟楷","謝衣鳯","陳瑩","王鴻薇","黃國昌","楊瓊瓔","羅智強","林德福"],"page_start":209,"meetingDate":["2024-03-04"],"gazette_id":"1130601","agenda_lcidc_ids":["1130601_00009"],"meet_name":"立法院第11屆第1會期社會福利及衛生環境委員會第2次全體委員會議紀錄","content":"邀請行政院食品安全辦公室、衛生福利部部長、食品藥物管理署就「食安五環執行狀況及蘇丹紅\n事件處理之檢討」進行專題報告，並備質詢","agenda_id":"1130601_00008"}},"transcript":{"id":"149198","pyannote":{"name":"ronny","tool":"pyannote","data":{"url":"https://ivod.ly.gov.tw/Play/Clip/1M/149198","tool":"pyannote","id":"149198-pyannote"},"job_id":"e9yaQdR0T65VIJCg","queued_at":"2024-06-02 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626.397, \"end\": 626.617, \"score\": 0.909}, {\"word\": \"一\", \"start\": 626.617, \"end\": 626.637, \"score\": 0.0}, {\"word\": \"鳴\"}, {\"word\": \"委\", \"start\": 626.637, \"end\": 626.657, \"score\": 0.0}, {\"word\": \"員\"}], \"language\": \"zh\"}","srt":"1\n00:00:06,018 --> 00:00:22,464\n好謝謝好謝謝召委那我請我們部長跟署長好請部長跟署長委員好好部長署長召委我們大家好那權吉今天在委員會第一次的質詢好那針對針對我們\n\n2\n00:00:33,134 --> 00:01:00,336\n我們可以進行下一頁那個我們看一下我們針對我們2020到2023我們這個十大民怨事件我們看一下這個民進黨政府這十大民怨事件這前五名裡面就有三個跟我們衛福部有關係然後而且其中兩個還關係到我們的食安而且還高居第一名跟第四名所以現在再加上這個蘇丹紅的事件\n\n3\n00:01:00,916 --> 00:01:10,000\n我覺得國人對我們食品安全的信心可以說是全面崩潰而且可惜我們在2月22號陳建仁院長在我們食安專報跟答詢之中我們看不到我們民進黨政府針對這食安問題的謙卑跟檢討\n\n4\n00:01:19,984 --> 00:01:42,683\n而是看到這執政8年了還在找我們的馬英九前總統來做這個救援投手人家說什麼馬維拉以前楊基的救援投手叫李維拉很有名後來民進黨執政以後我們這個馬維拉也是有名的一個救援投手但是不知道這看在百姓的眼裡這個民怨其實一直在積累\n\n5\n00:01:43,905 --> 00:02:00,926\n那當然我們現在回到我們今天的主題針對我們這次這個蘇丹紅的事件我們這個事件爆發的開始是由雲林縣政府接獲民眾的舉報那也就是說蘇丹紅這個違法的染色劑的使用\n\n6\n00:02:01,607 --> 00:02:23,740\n我想請問一下是不是已經都到了我們後市場端而且這次由保鮮企業進口的蘇丹紅危機等於說是突破了我們邊境茶葉的層層的防衛而且在2023年9月的時候你們就說要加強抽茶比例甚至到50%那為什麼還有這麼多的漏網之魚\n\n7\n00:02:24,920 --> 00:02:47,406\n請部長回答的確啦,因為如果不是百分之百的一個抽批的話那總是會有沒抽到的那當時我們並不知道說他這一個發生的比例是多少所以百分之五十的抽批的話那到底會有多少批那會漏啊,這個我們在當時並不知道\n\n8\n00:02:48,146 --> 00:03:13,434\n那現在是我們回溯那才逐步的去做檢查那才循線的再去看往下游那邊到底是有多少那我們也感謝雲林縣衛生局那能夠在這一個後市場的部分第一個去因為有人檢舉然後他去做了這一個做了這個稽查那的確是發現到有這個問題\n\n9\n00:03:14,514 --> 00:03:30,742\n好部長那我也知道所以我的意思說你看已經提升到50%那居然都還那麼多漏防資油相信現在還有更多的未爆彈現在一一在爆發那我想請問一下過去一年我們的邊境查驗中我們蘇丹紅總共查到幾件\n\n10\n00:03:33,025 --> 00:03:46,163\n過去一年就是說112年度的時候那蘇丹紅是有7件那所有的不合格是22件那其中蘇丹紅的是7件那其他大概都是農藥不合格\n\n11\n00:03:47,324 --> 00:03:47,364\n陳建成議員\n\n12\n00:04:18,004 --> 00:04:41,018\n編進查驗這麼多問題為什麼從頭到尾都沒有提到蘇丹紅的事件因為那個時候還繼續在查當中我們不知道他影響層面是有多大因為在去年的話是7件那後來是有今年的年初又多了2件所以再變成9件所以編進查驗那時候查到並不需要\n\n13\n00:04:42,099 --> 00:04:59,418\n提出檢討甚至告知國人針對這部分要來注意嗎?所以我們就是依照我們的一些規定的話我們逐步的增加抽批的比例嘛後來100%抽批之後發現說蘇丹紅的這個違規事件的比例仍然是高\n\n14\n00:05:00,179 --> 00:05:13,749\n我現在是擔心當初如果沒有雲林縣政府這個民眾舉報你看我們這個明明知道我們政府早就執勤而且這不是首例那是不是讓我們感覺要把這個今年2月這民眾舉報這個蘇丹紅事件當成首例來辦\n\n15\n00:05:16,471 --> 00:05:30,719\n沒有沒有,在去年的話就已經那個到了百分之一百了,那所以百分之一百發現說有的話,其實是我們是在全部的那個暫停輸入,2月20就全部暫停\n\n16\n00:05:33,120 --> 00:05:53,768\n那我針對齁我們其實查驗到邊境查驗已經查驗到9件那9件裡面你看一下這裡面加管國際齁加管國際其實在1月份的邊境查驗他就已經查到的可是邊境查驗查到結果居然在你們3月2號食藥署的新聞稿裡面\n\n17\n00:05:54,668 --> 00:06:10,855\n又說在地方政府的配合下在後市場端又查到加廣國際貿易的辣椒粉一月份邊境查到三月份居然在後市場端又有那我不知道邊境查到以後居然又進入市場我不知道這到底是什麼原因\n\n18\n00:06:12,135 --> 00:06:39,391\n在邊境查到的部分我剛剛有跟這個委員報告即使是我們全面禁止是在2月20啦才全面禁止那但是去年的12月11的話就已經是百分之一百那我們一月份查到那沒有針對他下游的部分去追溯嗎那為什麼還會留到後市場端不是那12月11的話那事實上是在查院百分之一百如果查到就不准進口了\n\n19\n00:06:40,291 --> 00:07:07,251\n所以這個部分的話是不會有漏網我覺得這個我要跟部長講一下你們一直常常說這是個案問題我覺得這根本就是系統性真的是系統性已經出現了很大的問題我們陳建財院長一直治好這個食安五環我說實在這看起來這食安五環真的是早就已經破功了而且這個溯源追溯早就已經失去它的功效\n\n20\n00:07:07,791 --> 00:07:28,643\n有啦還是它的功效仍然存在所以我們現在才能夠追出那麼多啦那當然食安五環還是有改進的空間啦這我們也必須承認所以我說這個我覺得很多東西真的我們如果發現還是要盡早來看怎麼來檢討怎麼改善我們看我們針對我們\n\n21\n00:07:31,064 --> 00:07:40,458\n行政院明明這個蘇丹紅危機去年就已經爆發可是我們看我們三次的食安匯報跟一次食安專報我們的總檢討對於蘇丹紅真的是隻字未提我們說\n\n22\n00:07:46,326 --> 00:07:48,707\n因為這個有一些事件他是必須要看累積的啦\n\n23\n00:08:17,301 --> 00:08:38,320\n主席抱歉可以給我兩分鐘會是比較我們只是增加關注或者是稽查的一個比例但是我們如果統計比如說整個半年來看的話它的數量就可能會跟以前去比的話就可能是高的所以這個是必須要做堅固一些比較\n\n24\n00:08:39,121 --> 00:08:59,454\n所以部長我是希望我們很多東西大家真的務實來做像我一直想起那次陳建仁院長在立法院那個報告我覺得真的是牛皮吹破現在這個食安將陸陸續續爆發而且還一直大內宣說這個食安五環做得有多好那現在我覺得真的是有很大的諷刺我們說實在話當初\n\n25\n00:09:01,475 --> 00:09:14,244\n聯合報就有寫他說蔡政府才是我國最大的系統危機我覺得很多事情知道以後真的要趕快檢討不要沒有提出檢討而且毫無改善然後我們看一下我們這個食安五環\n\n26\n00:09:16,385 --> 00:09:44,080\n你看這個五環源頭控管重建生產管理加強查驗加重惡意黑心廠商責任最後才到全民監督食安結果我們這次爆發居然是民眾檢舉這是最後一環欸所以表示我們的前四環完全螺絲鬆脫執行力根本不利如果今天沒有民眾檢舉這個事情怎麼會爆發那我們前四環是不是等於根本就是失效了已經警覺到了啊\n\n27\n00:09:44,821 --> 00:10:00,540\n所以我希望這個食安五環這很好的政策真的我們需要好好的落實來去做而且我希望我們國民民眾的健康真的我們這個主管單位真的要\n\n28\n00:10:01,101 --> 00:10:01,121\n好謝謝\n\n29\n00:10:26,397 --> 00:10:26,657\n王一鳴委員\n\n","tsv":"start\tend\ttext\n6018\t22464\t好謝謝好謝謝召委那我請我們部長跟署長好請部長跟署長委員好好部長署長召委我們大家好那權吉今天在委員會第一次的質詢好那針對針對我們\n33134\t60336\t我們可以進行下一頁那個我們看一下我們針對我們2020到2023我們這個十大民怨事件我們看一下這個民進黨政府這十大民怨事件這前五名裡面就有三個跟我們衛福部有關係然後而且其中兩個還關係到我們的食安而且還高居第一名跟第四名所以現在再加上這個蘇丹紅的事件\n60916\t70000\t我覺得國人對我們食品安全的信心可以說是全面崩潰而且可惜我們在2月22號陳建仁院長在我們食安專報跟答詢之中我們看不到我們民進黨政府針對這食安問題的謙卑跟檢討\n79984\t102683\t而是看到這執政8年了還在找我們的馬英九前總統來做這個救援投手人家說什麼馬維拉以前楊基的救援投手叫李維拉很有名後來民進黨執政以後我們這個馬維拉也是有名的一個救援投手但是不知道這看在百姓的眼裡這個民怨其實一直在積累\n103905\t120926\t那當然我們現在回到我們今天的主題針對我們這次這個蘇丹紅的事件我們這個事件爆發的開始是由雲林縣政府接獲民眾的舉報那也就是說蘇丹紅這個違法的染色劑的使用\n121607\t143740\t我想請問一下是不是已經都到了我們後市場端而且這次由保鮮企業進口的蘇丹紅危機等於說是突破了我們邊境茶葉的層層的防衛而且在2023年9月的時候你們就說要加強抽茶比例甚至到50%那為什麼還有這麼多的漏網之魚\n144920\t167406\t請部長回答的確啦,因為如果不是百分之百的一個抽批的話那總是會有沒抽到的那當時我們並不知道說他這一個發生的比例是多少所以百分之五十的抽批的話那到底會有多少批那會漏啊,這個我們在當時並不知道\n168146\t193434\t那現在是我們回溯那才逐步的去做檢查那才循線的再去看往下游那邊到底是有多少那我們也感謝雲林縣衛生局那能夠在這一個後市場的部分第一個去因為有人檢舉然後他去做了這一個做了這個稽查那的確是發現到有這個問題\n194514\t210742\t好部長那我也知道所以我的意思說你看已經提升到50%那居然都還那麼多漏防資油相信現在還有更多的未爆彈現在一一在爆發那我想請問一下過去一年我們的邊境查驗中我們蘇丹紅總共查到幾件\n213025\t226163\t過去一年就是說112年度的時候那蘇丹紅是有7件那所有的不合格是22件那其中蘇丹紅的是7件那其他大概都是農藥不合格\n227324\t227364\t陳建成議員\n258004\t281018\t編進查驗這麼多問題為什麼從頭到尾都沒有提到蘇丹紅的事件因為那個時候還繼續在查當中我們不知道他影響層面是有多大因為在去年的話是7件那後來是有今年的年初又多了2件所以再變成9件所以編進查驗那時候查到並不需要\n282099\t299418\t提出檢討甚至告知國人針對這部分要來注意嗎?所以我們就是依照我們的一些規定的話我們逐步的增加抽批的比例嘛後來100%抽批之後發現說蘇丹紅的這個違規事件的比例仍然是高\n300179\t313749\t我現在是擔心當初如果沒有雲林縣政府這個民眾舉報你看我們這個明明知道我們政府早就執勤而且這不是首例那是不是讓我們感覺要把這個今年2月這民眾舉報這個蘇丹紅事件當成首例來辦\n316471\t330719\t沒有沒有,在去年的話就已經那個到了百分之一百了,那所以百分之一百發現說有的話,其實是我們是在全部的那個暫停輸入,2月20就全部暫停\n333120\t353768\t那我針對齁我們其實查驗到邊境查驗已經查驗到9件那9件裡面你看一下這裡面加管國際齁加管國際其實在1月份的邊境查驗他就已經查到的可是邊境查驗查到結果居然在你們3月2號食藥署的新聞稿裡面\n354668\t370855\t又說在地方政府的配合下在後市場端又查到加廣國際貿易的辣椒粉一月份邊境查到三月份居然在後市場端又有那我不知道邊境查到以後居然又進入市場我不知道這到底是什麼原因\n372135\t399391\t在邊境查到的部分我剛剛有跟這個委員報告即使是我們全面禁止是在2月20啦才全面禁止那但是去年的12月11的話就已經是百分之一百那我們一月份查到那沒有針對他下游的部分去追溯嗎那為什麼還會留到後市場端不是那12月11的話那事實上是在查院百分之一百如果查到就不准進口了\n400291\t427251\t所以這個部分的話是不會有漏網我覺得這個我要跟部長講一下你們一直常常說這是個案問題我覺得這根本就是系統性真的是系統性已經出現了很大的問題我們陳建財院長一直治好這個食安五環我說實在這看起來這食安五環真的是早就已經破功了而且這個溯源追溯早就已經失去它的功效\n427791\t448643\t有啦還是它的功效仍然存在所以我們現在才能夠追出那麼多啦那當然食安五環還是有改進的空間啦這我們也必須承認所以我說這個我覺得很多東西真的我們如果發現還是要盡早來看怎麼來檢討怎麼改善我們看我們針對我們\n451064\t460458\t行政院明明這個蘇丹紅危機去年就已經爆發可是我們看我們三次的食安匯報跟一次食安專報我們的總檢討對於蘇丹紅真的是隻字未提我們說\n466326\t468707\t因為這個有一些事件他是必須要看累積的啦\n497301\t518320\t主席抱歉可以給我兩分鐘會是比較我們只是增加關注或者是稽查的一個比例但是我們如果統計比如說整個半年來看的話它的數量就可能會跟以前去比的話就可能是高的所以這個是必須要做堅固一些比較\n519121\t539454\t所以部長我是希望我們很多東西大家真的務實來做像我一直想起那次陳建仁院長在立法院那個報告我覺得真的是牛皮吹破現在這個食安將陸陸續續爆發而且還一直大內宣說這個食安五環做得有多好那現在我覺得真的是有很大的諷刺我們說實在話當初\n541475\t554244\t聯合報就有寫他說蔡政府才是我國最大的系統危機我覺得很多事情知道以後真的要趕快檢討不要沒有提出檢討而且毫無改善然後我們看一下我們這個食安五環\n556385\t584080\t你看這個五環源頭控管重建生產管理加強查驗加重惡意黑心廠商責任最後才到全民監督食安結果我們這次爆發居然是民眾檢舉這是最後一環欸所以表示我們的前四環完全螺絲鬆脫執行力根本不利如果今天沒有民眾檢舉這個事情怎麼會爆發那我們前四環是不是等於根本就是失效了已經警覺到了啊\n584821\t600540\t所以我希望這個食安五環這很好的政策真的我們需要好好的落實來去做而且我希望我們國民民眾的健康真的我們這個主管單位真的要\n601101\t601121\t好 謝謝\n626397\t626657\t王一鳴委員\n","txt":"好謝謝好謝謝召委那我請我們部長跟署長好請部長跟署長委員好好部長署長召委我們大家好那權吉今天在委員會第一次的質詢好那針對針對我們\n我們可以進行下一頁那個我們看一下我們針對我們2020到2023我們這個十大民怨事件我們看一下這個民進黨政府這十大民怨事件這前五名裡面就有三個跟我們衛福部有關係然後而且其中兩個還關係到我們的食安而且還高居第一名跟第四名所以現在再加上這個蘇丹紅的事件\n我覺得國人對我們食品安全的信心可以說是全面崩潰而且可惜我們在2月22號陳建仁院長在我們食安專報跟答詢之中我們看不到我們民進黨政府針對這食安問題的謙卑跟檢討\n而是看到這執政8年了還在找我們的馬英九前總統來做這個救援投手人家說什麼馬維拉以前楊基的救援投手叫李維拉很有名後來民進黨執政以後我們這個馬維拉也是有名的一個救援投手但是不知道這看在百姓的眼裡這個民怨其實一直在積累\n那當然我們現在回到我們今天的主題針對我們這次這個蘇丹紅的事件我們這個事件爆發的開始是由雲林縣政府接獲民眾的舉報那也就是說蘇丹紅這個違法的染色劑的使用\n我想請問一下是不是已經都到了我們後市場端而且這次由保鮮企業進口的蘇丹紅危機等於說是突破了我們邊境茶葉的層層的防衛而且在2023年9月的時候你們就說要加強抽茶比例甚至到50%那為什麼還有這麼多的漏網之魚\n請部長回答的確啦,因為如果不是百分之百的一個抽批的話那總是會有沒抽到的那當時我們並不知道說他這一個發生的比例是多少所以百分之五十的抽批的話那到底會有多少批那會漏啊,這個我們在當時並不知道\n那現在是我們回溯那才逐步的去做檢查那才循線的再去看往下游那邊到底是有多少那我們也感謝雲林縣衛生局那能夠在這一個後市場的部分第一個去因為有人檢舉然後他去做了這一個做了這個稽查那的確是發現到有這個問題\n好部長那我也知道所以我的意思說你看已經提升到50%那居然都還那麼多漏防資油相信現在還有更多的未爆彈現在一一在爆發那我想請問一下過去一年我們的邊境查驗中我們蘇丹紅總共查到幾件\n過去一年就是說112年度的時候那蘇丹紅是有7件那所有的不合格是22件那其中蘇丹紅的是7件那其他大概都是農藥不合格\n陳建成議員\n編進查驗這麼多問題為什麼從頭到尾都沒有提到蘇丹紅的事件因為那個時候還繼續在查當中我們不知道他影響層面是有多大因為在去年的話是7件那後來是有今年的年初又多了2件所以再變成9件所以編進查驗那時候查到並不需要\n提出檢討甚至告知國人針對這部分要來注意嗎?所以我們就是依照我們的一些規定的話我們逐步的增加抽批的比例嘛後來100%抽批之後發現說蘇丹紅的這個違規事件的比例仍然是高\n我現在是擔心當初如果沒有雲林縣政府這個民眾舉報你看我們這個明明知道我們政府早就執勤而且這不是首例那是不是讓我們感覺要把這個今年2月這民眾舉報這個蘇丹紅事件當成首例來辦\n沒有沒有,在去年的話就已經那個到了百分之一百了,那所以百分之一百發現說有的話,其實是我們是在全部的那個暫停輸入,2月20就全部暫停\n那我針對齁我們其實查驗到邊境查驗已經查驗到9件那9件裡面你看一下這裡面加管國際齁加管國際其實在1月份的邊境查驗他就已經查到的可是邊境查驗查到結果居然在你們3月2號食藥署的新聞稿裡面\n又說在地方政府的配合下在後市場端又查到加廣國際貿易的辣椒粉一月份邊境查到三月份居然在後市場端又有那我不知道邊境查到以後居然又進入市場我不知道這到底是什麼原因\n在邊境查到的部分我剛剛有跟這個委員報告即使是我們全面禁止是在2月20啦才全面禁止那但是去年的12月11的話就已經是百分之一百那我們一月份查到那沒有針對他下游的部分去追溯嗎那為什麼還會留到後市場端不是那12月11的話那事實上是在查院百分之一百如果查到就不准進口了\n所以這個部分的話是不會有漏網我覺得這個我要跟部長講一下你們一直常常說這是個案問題我覺得這根本就是系統性真的是系統性已經出現了很大的問題我們陳建財院長一直治好這個食安五環我說實在這看起來這食安五環真的是早就已經破功了而且這個溯源追溯早就已經失去它的功效\n有啦還是它的功效仍然存在所以我們現在才能夠追出那麼多啦那當然食安五環還是有改進的空間啦這我們也必須承認所以我說這個我覺得很多東西真的我們如果發現還是要盡早來看怎麼來檢討怎麼改善我們看我們針對我們\n行政院明明這個蘇丹紅危機去年就已經爆發可是我們看我們三次的食安匯報跟一次食安專報我們的總檢討對於蘇丹紅真的是隻字未提我們說\n因為這個有一些事件他是必須要看累積的啦\n主席抱歉可以給我兩分鐘會是比較我們只是增加關注或者是稽查的一個比例但是我們如果統計比如說整個半年來看的話它的數量就可能會跟以前去比的話就可能是高的所以這個是必須要做堅固一些比較\n所以部長我是希望我們很多東西大家真的務實來做像我一直想起那次陳建仁院長在立法院那個報告我覺得真的是牛皮吹破現在這個食安將陸陸續續爆發而且還一直大內宣說這個食安五環做得有多好那現在我覺得真的是有很大的諷刺我們說實在話當初\n聯合報就有寫他說蔡政府才是我國最大的系統危機我覺得很多事情知道以後真的要趕快檢討不要沒有提出檢討而且毫無改善然後我們看一下我們這個食安五環\n你看這個五環源頭控管重建生產管理加強查驗加重惡意黑心廠商責任最後才到全民監督食安結果我們這次爆發居然是民眾檢舉這是最後一環欸所以表示我們的前四環完全螺絲鬆脫執行力根本不利如果今天沒有民眾檢舉這個事情怎麼會爆發那我們前四環是不是等於根本就是失效了已經警覺到了啊\n所以我希望這個食安五環這很好的政策真的我們需要好好的落實來去做而且我希望我們國民民眾的健康真的我們這個主管單位真的要\n好 謝謝\n王一鳴委員\n","vtt":"WEBVTT\n\n00:06.018 --> 00:22.464\n好謝謝好謝謝召委那我請我們部長跟署長好請部長跟署長委員好好部長署長召委我們大家好那權吉今天在委員會第一次的質詢好那針對針對我們\n\n00:33.134 --> 01:00.336\n我們可以進行下一頁那個我們看一下我們針對我們2020到2023我們這個十大民怨事件我們看一下這個民進黨政府這十大民怨事件這前五名裡面就有三個跟我們衛福部有關係然後而且其中兩個還關係到我們的食安而且還高居第一名跟第四名所以現在再加上這個蘇丹紅的事件\n\n01:00.916 --> 01:10.000\n我覺得國人對我們食品安全的信心可以說是全面崩潰而且可惜我們在2月22號陳建仁院長在我們食安專報跟答詢之中我們看不到我們民進黨政府針對這食安問題的謙卑跟檢討\n\n01:19.984 --> 01:42.683\n而是看到這執政8年了還在找我們的馬英九前總統來做這個救援投手人家說什麼馬維拉以前楊基的救援投手叫李維拉很有名後來民進黨執政以後我們這個馬維拉也是有名的一個救援投手但是不知道這看在百姓的眼裡這個民怨其實一直在積累\n\n01:43.905 --> 02:00.926\n那當然我們現在回到我們今天的主題針對我們這次這個蘇丹紅的事件我們這個事件爆發的開始是由雲林縣政府接獲民眾的舉報那也就是說蘇丹紅這個違法的染色劑的使用\n\n02:01.607 --> 02:23.740\n我想請問一下是不是已經都到了我們後市場端而且這次由保鮮企業進口的蘇丹紅危機等於說是突破了我們邊境茶葉的層層的防衛而且在2023年9月的時候你們就說要加強抽茶比例甚至到50%那為什麼還有這麼多的漏網之魚\n\n02:24.920 --> 02:47.406\n請部長回答的確啦,因為如果不是百分之百的一個抽批的話那總是會有沒抽到的那當時我們並不知道說他這一個發生的比例是多少所以百分之五十的抽批的話那到底會有多少批那會漏啊,這個我們在當時並不知道\n\n02:48.146 --> 03:13.434\n那現在是我們回溯那才逐步的去做檢查那才循線的再去看往下游那邊到底是有多少那我們也感謝雲林縣衛生局那能夠在這一個後市場的部分第一個去因為有人檢舉然後他去做了這一個做了這個稽查那的確是發現到有這個問題\n\n03:14.514 --> 03:30.742\n好部長那我也知道所以我的意思說你看已經提升到50%那居然都還那麼多漏防資油相信現在還有更多的未爆彈現在一一在爆發那我想請問一下過去一年我們的邊境查驗中我們蘇丹紅總共查到幾件\n\n03:33.025 --> 03:46.163\n過去一年就是說112年度的時候那蘇丹紅是有7件那所有的不合格是22件那其中蘇丹紅的是7件那其他大概都是農藥不合格\n\n03:47.324 --> 03:47.364\n陳建成議員\n\n04:18.004 --> 04:41.018\n編進查驗這麼多問題為什麼從頭到尾都沒有提到蘇丹紅的事件因為那個時候還繼續在查當中我們不知道他影響層面是有多大因為在去年的話是7件那後來是有今年的年初又多了2件所以再變成9件所以編進查驗那時候查到並不需要\n\n04:42.099 --> 04:59.418\n提出檢討甚至告知國人針對這部分要來注意嗎?所以我們就是依照我們的一些規定的話我們逐步的增加抽批的比例嘛後來100%抽批之後發現說蘇丹紅的這個違規事件的比例仍然是高\n\n05:00.179 --> 05:13.749\n我現在是擔心當初如果沒有雲林縣政府這個民眾舉報你看我們這個明明知道我們政府早就執勤而且這不是首例那是不是讓我們感覺要把這個今年2月這民眾舉報這個蘇丹紅事件當成首例來辦\n\n05:16.471 --> 05:30.719\n沒有沒有,在去年的話就已經那個到了百分之一百了,那所以百分之一百發現說有的話,其實是我們是在全部的那個暫停輸入,2月20就全部暫停\n\n05:33.120 --> 05:53.768\n那我針對齁我們其實查驗到邊境查驗已經查驗到9件那9件裡面你看一下這裡面加管國際齁加管國際其實在1月份的邊境查驗他就已經查到的可是邊境查驗查到結果居然在你們3月2號食藥署的新聞稿裡面\n\n05:54.668 --> 06:10.855\n又說在地方政府的配合下在後市場端又查到加廣國際貿易的辣椒粉一月份邊境查到三月份居然在後市場端又有那我不知道邊境查到以後居然又進入市場我不知道這到底是什麼原因\n\n06:12.135 --> 06:39.391\n在邊境查到的部分我剛剛有跟這個委員報告即使是我們全面禁止是在2月20啦才全面禁止那但是去年的12月11的話就已經是百分之一百那我們一月份查到那沒有針對他下游的部分去追溯嗎那為什麼還會留到後市場端不是那12月11的話那事實上是在查院百分之一百如果查到就不准進口了\n\n06:40.291 --> 07:07.251\n所以這個部分的話是不會有漏網我覺得這個我要跟部長講一下你們一直常常說這是個案問題我覺得這根本就是系統性真的是系統性已經出現了很大的問題我們陳建財院長一直治好這個食安五環我說實在這看起來這食安五環真的是早就已經破功了而且這個溯源追溯早就已經失去它的功效\n\n07:07.791 --> 07:28.643\n有啦還是它的功效仍然存在所以我們現在才能夠追出那麼多啦那當然食安五環還是有改進的空間啦這我們也必須承認所以我說這個我覺得很多東西真的我們如果發現還是要盡早來看怎麼來檢討怎麼改善我們看我們針對我們\n\n07:31.064 --> 07:40.458\n行政院明明這個蘇丹紅危機去年就已經爆發可是我們看我們三次的食安匯報跟一次食安專報我們的總檢討對於蘇丹紅真的是隻字未提我們說\n\n07:46.326 --> 07:48.707\n因為這個有一些事件他是必須要看累積的啦\n\n08:17.301 --> 08:38.320\n主席抱歉可以給我兩分鐘會是比較我們只是增加關注或者是稽查的一個比例但是我們如果統計比如說整個半年來看的話它的數量就可能會跟以前去比的話就可能是高的所以這個是必須要做堅固一些比較\n\n08:39.121 --> 08:59.454\n所以部長我是希望我們很多東西大家真的務實來做像我一直想起那次陳建仁院長在立法院那個報告我覺得真的是牛皮吹破現在這個食安將陸陸續續爆發而且還一直大內宣說這個食安五環做得有多好那現在我覺得真的是有很大的諷刺我們說實在話當初\n\n09:01.475 --> 09:14.244\n聯合報就有寫他說蔡政府才是我國最大的系統危機我覺得很多事情知道以後真的要趕快檢討不要沒有提出檢討而且毫無改善然後我們看一下我們這個食安五環\n\n09:16.385 --> 09:44.080\n你看這個五環源頭控管重建生產管理加強查驗加重惡意黑心廠商責任最後才到全民監督食安結果我們這次爆發居然是民眾檢舉這是最後一環欸所以表示我們的前四環完全螺絲鬆脫執行力根本不利如果今天沒有民眾檢舉這個事情怎麼會爆發那我們前四環是不是等於根本就是失效了已經警覺到了啊\n\n09:44.821 --> 10:00.540\n所以我希望這個食安五環這很好的政策真的我們需要好好的落實來去做而且我希望我們國民民眾的健康真的我們這個主管單位真的要\n\n10:01.101 --> 10:01.121\n好謝謝\n\n10:26.397 --> 10:26.657\n王一鳴委員\n\n","segments":[{"start":6.018,"end":22.464,"text":"好謝謝好謝謝召委那我請我們部長跟署長好請部長跟署長委員好好部長署長召委我們大家好那權吉今天在委員會第一次的質詢好那針對針對我們"},{"start":33.134,"end":60.336,"text":"我們可以進行下一頁那個我們看一下我們針對我們2020到2023我們這個十大民怨事件我們看一下這個民進黨政府這十大民怨事件這前五名裡面就有三個跟我們衛福部有關係然後而且其中兩個還關係到我們的食安而且還高居第一名跟第四名所以現在再加上這個蘇丹紅的事件"},{"start":60.916,"end":70,"text":"我覺得國人對我們食品安全的信心可以說是全面崩潰而且可惜我們在2月22號陳建仁院長在我們食安專報跟答詢之中我們看不到我們民進黨政府針對這食安問題的謙卑跟檢討"},{"start":79.984,"end":102.683,"text":"而是看到這執政8年了還在找我們的馬英九前總統來做這個救援投手人家說什麼馬維拉以前楊基的救援投手叫李維拉很有名後來民進黨執政以後我們這個馬維拉也是有名的一個救援投手但是不知道這看在百姓的眼裡這個民怨其實一直在積累"},{"start":103.905,"end":120.926,"text":"那當然我們現在回到我們今天的主題針對我們這次這個蘇丹紅的事件我們這個事件爆發的開始是由雲林縣政府接獲民眾的舉報那也就是說蘇丹紅這個違法的染色劑的使用"},{"start":121.607,"end":143.74,"text":"我想請問一下是不是已經都到了我們後市場端而且這次由保鮮企業進口的蘇丹紅危機等於說是突破了我們邊境茶葉的層層的防衛而且在2023年9月的時候你們就說要加強抽茶比例甚至到50%那為什麼還有這麼多的漏網之魚"},{"start":144.92,"end":167.406,"text":"請部長回答的確啦,因為如果不是百分之百的一個抽批的話那總是會有沒抽到的那當時我們並不知道說他這一個發生的比例是多少所以百分之五十的抽批的話那到底會有多少批那會漏啊,這個我們在當時並不知道"},{"start":168.146,"end":193.434,"text":"那現在是我們回溯那才逐步的去做檢查那才循線的再去看往下游那邊到底是有多少那我們也感謝雲林縣衛生局那能夠在這一個後市場的部分第一個去因為有人檢舉然後他去做了這一個做了這個稽查那的確是發現到有這個問題"},{"start":194.514,"end":210.742,"text":"好部長那我也知道所以我的意思說你看已經提升到50%那居然都還那麼多漏防資油相信現在還有更多的未爆彈現在一一在爆發那我想請問一下過去一年我們的邊境查驗中我們蘇丹紅總共查到幾件"},{"start":213.025,"end":226.163,"text":"過去一年就是說112年度的時候那蘇丹紅是有7件那所有的不合格是22件那其中蘇丹紅的是7件那其他大概都是農藥不合格"},{"start":227.324,"end":227.364,"text":"陳建成議員"},{"start":258.004,"end":281.018,"text":"編進查驗這麼多問題為什麼從頭到尾都沒有提到蘇丹紅的事件因為那個時候還繼續在查當中我們不知道他影響層面是有多大因為在去年的話是7件那後來是有今年的年初又多了2件所以再變成9件所以編進查驗那時候查到並不需要"},{"start":282.099,"end":299.418,"text":"提出檢討甚至告知國人針對這部分要來注意嗎?所以我們就是依照我們的一些規定的話我們逐步的增加抽批的比例嘛後來100%抽批之後發現說蘇丹紅的這個違規事件的比例仍然是高"},{"start":300.179,"end":313.749,"text":"我現在是擔心當初如果沒有雲林縣政府這個民眾舉報你看我們這個明明知道我們政府早就執勤而且這不是首例那是不是讓我們感覺要把這個今年2月這民眾舉報這個蘇丹紅事件當成首例來辦"},{"start":316.471,"end":330.719,"text":"沒有沒有,在去年的話就已經那個到了百分之一百了,那所以百分之一百發現說有的話,其實是我們是在全部的那個暫停輸入,2月20就全部暫停"},{"start":333.12,"end":353.768,"text":"那我針對齁我們其實查驗到邊境查驗已經查驗到9件那9件裡面你看一下這裡面加管國際齁加管國際其實在1月份的邊境查驗他就已經查到的可是邊境查驗查到結果居然在你們3月2號食藥署的新聞稿裡面"},{"start":354.668,"end":370.855,"text":"又說在地方政府的配合下在後市場端又查到加廣國際貿易的辣椒粉一月份邊境查到三月份居然在後市場端又有那我不知道邊境查到以後居然又進入市場我不知道這到底是什麼原因"},{"start":372.135,"end":399.391,"text":"在邊境查到的部分我剛剛有跟這個委員報告即使是我們全面禁止是在2月20啦才全面禁止那但是去年的12月11的話就已經是百分之一百那我們一月份查到那沒有針對他下游的部分去追溯嗎那為什麼還會留到後市場端不是那12月11的話那事實上是在查院百分之一百如果查到就不准進口了"},{"start":400.291,"end":427.251,"text":"所以這個部分的話是不會有漏網我覺得這個我要跟部長講一下你們一直常常說這是個案問題我覺得這根本就是系統性真的是系統性已經出現了很大的問題我們陳建財院長一直治好這個食安五環我說實在這看起來這食安五環真的是早就已經破功了而且這個溯源追溯早就已經失去它的功效"},{"start":427.791,"end":448.643,"text":"有啦還是它的功效仍然存在所以我們現在才能夠追出那麼多啦那當然食安五環還是有改進的空間啦這我們也必須承認所以我說這個我覺得很多東西真的我們如果發現還是要盡早來看怎麼來檢討怎麼改善我們看我們針對我們"},{"start":451.064,"end":460.458,"text":"行政院明明這個蘇丹紅危機去年就已經爆發可是我們看我們三次的食安匯報跟一次食安專報我們的總檢討對於蘇丹紅真的是隻字未提我們說"},{"start":466.326,"end":468.707,"text":"因為這個有一些事件他是必須要看累積的啦"},{"start":497.301,"end":518.32,"text":"主席抱歉可以給我兩分鐘會是比較我們只是增加關注或者是稽查的一個比例但是我們如果統計比如說整個半年來看的話它的數量就可能會跟以前去比的話就可能是高的所以這個是必須要做堅固一些比較"},{"start":519.121,"end":539.454,"text":"所以部長我是希望我們很多東西大家真的務實來做像我一直想起那次陳建仁院長在立法院那個報告我覺得真的是牛皮吹破現在這個食安將陸陸續續爆發而且還一直大內宣說這個食安五環做得有多好那現在我覺得真的是有很大的諷刺我們說實在話當初"},{"start":541.475,"end":554.244,"text":"聯合報就有寫他說蔡政府才是我國最大的系統危機我覺得很多事情知道以後真的要趕快檢討不要沒有提出檢討而且毫無改善然後我們看一下我們這個食安五環"},{"start":556.385,"end":584.08,"text":"你看這個五環源頭控管重建生產管理加強查驗加重惡意黑心廠商責任最後才到全民監督食安結果我們這次爆發居然是民眾檢舉這是最後一環欸所以表示我們的前四環完全螺絲鬆脫執行力根本不利如果今天沒有民眾檢舉這個事情怎麼會爆發那我們前四環是不是等於根本就是失效了已經警覺到了啊"},{"start":584.821,"end":600.54,"text":"所以我希望這個食安五環這很好的政策真的我們需要好好的落實來去做而且我希望我們國民民眾的健康真的我們這個主管單位真的要"},{"start":601.101,"end":601.121,"text":"好 謝謝"},{"start":626.397,"end":626.657,"text":"王一鳴委員"}]}}}}