{"id":149209,"url":"https://ivod.ly.gov.tw/Play/Clip/1M/149209","video_url":"https://ivod-lyvod.cdn.hinet.net/vod_1/_definst_/mp4:1MClips/ad9f873b941d2ddd6fa8dc2306d93b70f012038cf3c9e62ff8ba9b0039caa7a6135377653bbc0bde5ea18f28b6918d91.mp4/playlist.m3u8","委員名稱":"邱鎮軍","委員發言時間":"10:18:46 - 10:29:06","影片長度":"00:10:20","會議時間":"2024-03-04T09:00:00+08:00","會議名稱":"立法院第11屆第1會期社會福利及衛生環境委員會第2次全體委員會議（事由：邀請行政院食品安全辦公室、衛生福利部部長、食品藥物管理署就「食安五環執行狀況及蘇丹紅事件處理之檢討」進行專題報告，並備質詢。）","meet":{"tmpMeeting":null,"title":"第11屆第1會期社會福利及衛生環境委員會第2次全體委員會議","term":11,"type":"委員會","sessionPeriod":1,"sessionTimes":2,"committees":[26],"id":"委員會-11-1-26-2"},"date":"2024-03-04","duration":620,"end_time":"2024-03-04T10:29:06+08:00","start_time":"2024-03-04T10:18:46+08:00","features":["ai-transcript","gazette"],"type":"Clip","gazette":{"lineno":458,"blocks":[["邱委員鎮軍：（10時18分）有請我們的薛部長。"],["主席（王委員育敏）：好，請部長，謝謝。"],["薛部長瑞元：委員好。"],["邱委員鎮軍：部長你好。我們還是一樣聊關於蘇丹紅的問題，剛剛我想很多委員都有提到同樣的問題，這邊我就不再多講，我這樣看，我們從事情發生到現在，3月1日、3月2日也陸續檢出我們食品中還有添加蘇丹紅，昨天連海底撈也中標了，在我看來問題是不斷地滾雪球越滾越大了，我很懷疑的是，我們的食安五環到底是出了什麼問題？"],["薛部長瑞元：這部分的話，其實食安五環的運作應該說是差強人意啦！今天這一個辣椒粉添加蘇丹紅的事情，當然源頭控管的部分我們目前並沒有一個所謂的即時……"],["邱委員鎮軍：部長，我這樣講啦！因為剛剛我也聽了很多，我知道我們很早就發現蘇丹紅已經有進到臺灣來，當時我們抽驗的只是2%到10%，對不對？然後再增加到50%，我在想這2%到10%，當我們驗出來有蘇丹紅的時候，我們只是提高了檢驗的標準，有沒有去追溯這2%、10%到底跑去哪裡？"],["薛部長瑞元：就是說沒有檢驗到的部分……"],["邱委員鎮軍：我這樣講，這一類產品進來，當查到它有問題的時候，是不是就應該要追查它的流向？當然你剛剛講到我們沒有辦法去干涉大陸那邊，可是我們的下游是不是能夠去追蹤？因為這已經跑到我們國內了，民眾很容易就會吃到，所以這是非常嚴重的問題，衛福部這邊有沒有做什麼處理？"],["薛部長瑞元：跟委員報告，其實是這樣，被我們檢查出來有問題的那一批基本上就不能進入到我們市場，就會銷毀……"],["邱委員鎮軍：但是部長剛剛講了，那個時候你只有抽2%到10%，對不對？"],["薛部長瑞元：對。"],["邱委員鎮軍：那其他的呢？有90%的東西你是沒有驗到的。"],["薛部長瑞元：這個抽驗比例是比較低是沒有錯，但是我們是跟……"],["邱委員鎮軍：我們就以20%來算，如果這樣回推回去，我認為至少有20萬公斤的蘇丹紅進到我們臺灣來。"],["薛部長瑞元：可能不能那樣算……"],["邱委員鎮軍：所以是不是這20萬公斤已經讓我們民眾吃下肚了？"],["薛部長瑞元：可能沒有辦法……不是用這樣去回推啦！"],["邱委員鎮軍：好，那我這樣講，我們現在再追，我們後來再補驗的這些東西，到現在，像剛剛部長講是59批，29號那天我們的林副署長還說是63批，到底是59還是63？"],["薛部長瑞元：目前應該是59批啦！"],["邱委員鎮軍：那再之前的呢？"],["薛部長瑞元：因為在擴大抽檢之前，有4批已經抽完了。"],["邱委員鎮軍：這樣子啦，本席建議，就是說不管幾批，我認為既然現在問題已經發生了，我們大家一起努力協助來解決這個問題才是重點。我也希望我們衛福部這邊能夠認真一點，我們把之前有可能會有疑慮的這些產品能夠去追，讓我們的國人能夠在食安方面能夠得到更多的保障，可以嗎？"],["薛部長瑞元：當然，我們現在努力在做的就是這件事情。"],["邱委員鎮軍：我們現在是不是已經完全掌握到污染的原料流向？"],["薛部長瑞元：對。所以就是有漏網之魚的話，現在我們就是正在追查。"],["邱委員鎮軍：我們是否已經全面下架，還有回收已製成的產品？"],["薛部長瑞元：漏網之魚指的是當時並沒有抽驗到的，但是並不表示說它一定是不合格，所以當我們去追的時候，我們還是必須要再驗。"],["邱委員鎮軍：因為這樣子啦，我們昨天還發現市面上還買得到海底撈，我們還是看得到。我現在有兩個問題，我們既然已經知道這個問題了，為什麼產品還在架上？剛才也談到一個網路平台銷售的問題，我也希望衛福部這邊能夠針對，尤其是網路銷售平台的問題，能夠做一個控管。另外，我也要幫我們民眾來問一下，如果買到類似產品的時候，當還沒食用，能不能退貨？能不能退款？"],["薛部長瑞元：如果是有問題的這些產品，是同一批號的話，我們是會要求廠商必須要接受退貨。"],["邱委員鎮軍：好。本席看到濟生公司在事發後仍然在公司網頁上還有刊登這樣一個貨品，然後還有刊登我們食藥署的輸入許可，我想這部分會造成我們大眾一個誤導，這是非常嚴重的。當然衛福部在知道這件事情的時候，已經請他暫停作業以及停止販售，這個沒有問題，但是為什麼我們要求他公司停產，卻沒有要求他停售可疑的產品呢？"],["薛部長瑞元：停產？下架就是不能再售了。"],["邱委員鎮軍：問題是他還在賣啊！像這個怎麼辦呢？"],["薛部長瑞元：它是不同批，或者是不同的產品。"],["邱委員鎮軍：如果是這樣的邏輯的話，那我們民眾的食安保障在哪裡呢？"],["薛部長瑞元：但是不同批，它已經經過檢查，是合格的，你要把它禁掉可能也必須要有法律上的依據。"],["邱委員鎮軍：那我想請問部長，你認為這次蘇丹紅辣椒粉的案例是個案還是通案？還是系統性的？"],["薛部長瑞元：這是系統性的問題。"],["邱委員鎮軍：我想這樣子，我發現尤其在保欣公司下游業者濟生公司被查出蘇丹紅辣椒粉原料，我們送SGS檢驗的時候，已經被告知有蘇丹紅的成分，後來那個公司又改造檢驗報告出貨到大賣場，並賣出許多產品。我們檢方在3月1號搜索保欣公司的時候，發現保欣公司下游業者曾經自主送驗，發現含有蘇丹紅3號，並退回保欣公司。那我要問的是，為什麼我們檢驗公司沒有主動通報衛福部，而只是退回？"],["薛部長瑞元：因為這一個部分屬於廠商的自主檢驗，所以不在……"],["邱委員鎮軍：本席建議好不好？本席建議，我們是不是可以讓檢驗公司納入食安通報的機制裡面？"],["薛部長瑞元：這我們來研議。"],["邱委員鎮軍：我想這個也是可以幫我們把關的一個地方。","另外，本席也認為中央也應該加強跟地方政府的合作，強化地方衛生局在市場端的查驗工作，而不應該像我們西布特羅瘦肉精的時候跟地方對立，我想這才是全民之福。"],["薛部長瑞元：應該沒有對立啦！"],["邱委員鎮軍：我們看到吵吵鬧鬧。"],["薛部長瑞元：目前其實是合作，在蘇丹紅這件事情是跟地方合作。"],["邱委員鎮軍：最後我做個結論，就是我們當然請政府重視食品的安全，對於食安的五環，我們儘量讓它嚴格執行，另外剛剛我提到的協辦，請檢驗公司納入通報機制。","最後我再請問部長，我們苗栗縣每萬人口的醫師數、醫事人員或病床數都遠低於我們全國的平均值，醫療資源不足及分布不均，我們真的是非常亟待改善。當然我也知道部長在部苗急重症大樓的部分已經協助非常多，但已經流標4次，我們看到工程款已經提高1.7億，到11.3億了，這部分我謝謝部長的協助。我們的放射腫瘤中心擴建工程目前已經流標10次了，可能也是因為設計發包的時候金額不足的問題，我這邊也再請部長協助，可以嗎？"],["薛部長瑞元：現在有增加。"],["邱委員鎮軍：現在增加了？"],["薛部長瑞元：對，已經增加。"],["邱委員鎮軍：增加多少？"],["薛部長瑞元：應該是到28萬。"],["邱委員鎮軍：1坪28萬？"],["薛部長瑞元：本來是只有25……"],["邱委員鎮軍：好，謝謝部長，當然我也希望這個部分能夠儘快完成。另外，我們部苗旁邊那塊地，本來本席要協助幫部苗取得，因為拖太久，價格差了一點點，現在很可惜被建商買走了，當然我們會再另覓土地，希望衛福部這邊來協助，讓我們把我們苗栗的醫療提升，可以嗎？"],["薛部長瑞元：是，那當然是我們的目標。"],["邱委員鎮軍：好，謝謝部長，謝謝主席。"],["薛部長瑞元：謝謝。"],["主席：好，我們謝謝邱鎮軍委員的質詢。現在先休息5分鐘。","休息（10時29分）","繼續開會（10時34分）"],["主席：請大家入座，我們繼續開會。","接下來我們請黃秀芳委員進行質詢。"]],"agenda":{"page_end":296,"meet_id":"委員會-11-1-26-2","speakers":["王育敏","陳昭姿","陳菁徽","廖偉翔","林月琴","涂權吉","邱鎮軍","黃秀芳","蘇清泉","盧縣一","劉建國","王正旭","楊曜","林淑芬","陳雪生","洪孟楷","謝衣鳯","陳瑩","王鴻薇","黃國昌","楊瓊瓔","羅智強","林德福"],"page_start":209,"meetingDate":["2024-03-04"],"gazette_id":"1130601","agenda_lcidc_ids":["1130601_00009"],"meet_name":"立法院第11屆第1會期社會福利及衛生環境委員會第2次全體委員會議紀錄","content":"邀請行政院食品安全辦公室、衛生福利部部長、食品藥物管理署就「食安五環執行狀況及蘇丹紅\n事件處理之檢討」進行專題報告，並備質詢","agenda_id":"1130601_00008"}},"transcript":{"id":"149209","pyannote":{"name":"ronny","tool":"pyannote","data":{"url":"https://ivod.ly.gov.tw/Play/Clip/1M/149209","tool":"pyannote","id":"149209-pyannote"},"job_id":"fkGHpfY4mGDtGBIV","queued_at":"2024-06-02 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\"end\": 611.503, \"score\": 0.94}, {\"word\": \"目\", \"start\": 611.503, \"end\": 611.523, \"score\": 0.883}, {\"word\": \"標\"}, {\"word\": \"邱\", \"start\": 613.88, \"end\": 614.001, \"score\": 0.833}, {\"word\": \"鎮\"}, {\"word\": \"軍\"}, {\"word\": \"委\", \"start\": 614.001, \"end\": 614.021, \"score\": 0.0}, {\"word\": \"員\"}], \"language\": \"zh\"}","srt":"1\n00:00:13,797 --> 00:00:13,917\n學務部長\n\n2\n00:00:22,919 --> 00:00:44,839\n部長你好我們還是一樣聊我聊聊我們這個蘇丹紅的問題剛剛我想很多委員都有提到同樣的問題這邊我就不再多講那我這樣看我們從事情發生到現在從到3月1號3月2號也陸續檢出這個我們食品中還有添加這個蘇丹紅\n\n3\n00:00:46,861 --> 00:01:00,173\n昨天連海底撈也中標了問題在我看來是不斷滾雪球越滾越大我很懷疑的就是說我們的食安五環到底是出了什麼問題\n\n4\n00:01:03,981 --> 00:01:25,343\n這部分的話其實食安五環還是運作還是應該說是差強人意今天這個辣椒粉添加蘇丹紅這件事情當然在源頭控管的部分我們在目前並沒有一個所謂的即時\n\n5\n00:01:27,864 --> 00:01:53,369\n我這樣講啦因為剛剛我也聽了很多那我知道我們很早就發現這個蘇丹紅已經有進到台灣來那當時我們抽驗的只是2%到10%嘛對不對然後再增加到50%那我在想在2%到10%當我們有驗出來有蘇丹紅的時候我們只是提高了檢驗的標準有沒有去追溯我們這2%、10%到底跑去哪裡\n\n6\n00:01:56,448 --> 00:02:23,689\n就是說沒有檢驗到的部分我這樣講我應該這一類產品進來的時候我們是不是當查到它有問題的時候是不是就應該要追它的流向當然你剛剛講到大陸那邊我們沒有辦法去干涉它可是我們的下游是不是能夠去追蹤因為這已經跑到我們的國內了那民眾很容易就會吃到所以這是非常嚴重的問題\n\n7\n00:02:24,369 --> 00:02:52,482\n我想,我們衛福部這邊有沒有做什麼處理?跟委員報告,其實是這樣,如果被我們檢查出來的有問題的那一批的話,基本上就不能進入到我們的市場了。就會推銷。但是你剛剛部長講了,那個時候你只有抽2%、2%到10%嘛,對不對?那其他的勒?有90%的東西你是不是沒有驗到?所以說這個抽驗的比例是比較低是沒有錯,但是我們是跟...我們就以20%來算啦齁。\n\n8\n00:02:53,883 --> 00:03:05,187\n如果這樣回退回去,我認為我們進到國內至少有20公斤的蘇丹紅進到我們台灣來。那是不是這20萬公斤已經讓我們民眾吃下肚?\n\n9\n00:03:09,206 --> 00:03:16,173\n我這樣講,我們現在在追,我們後來在補驗的這些東西我們到現在,上次剛剛部長講59批那29號那天我們的林副署長,他還說是63批,到底是59還是63?\n\n10\n00:03:32,784 --> 00:03:38,048\n目前是應該是59批那在這之前的呢\n\n11\n00:03:39,795 --> 00:04:09,153\n因為在擴大抽檢之前的話有4批已經是已經抽完這樣子啦本席建議啦就是說不管幾批那我認為說既然現在問題已經發生了我們大家一起努力協助來解決這個問題才是重點那我也希望我們衛福部這邊能夠認真一點我們把之前有可能會有疑慮的這些產品能夠去追讓我們的國人能夠在食安方面能夠得到更多的保障可以嗎\n\n12\n00:04:13,202 --> 00:04:17,348\n那我們現在是不是已經完全掌握到污染的原料的流向?\n\n13\n00:04:19,000 --> 00:04:43,326\n對,所以就是已經會有這種漏網之魚的話,現在我們就是正在追查。我們是否已經全面的下架還有回收我們已製成的這個產品?有,因為漏網之魚指的是說當時並沒有抽驗到的,但是並不表示說他一定是不合格。所以當我們去追的時候,我們還是必須要再驗。\n\n14\n00:04:44,605 --> 00:05:12,864\n因為這樣子啦,我們昨天還在這個還發現我們市面上還買得到這個海底撈我們還是看得到那我現在有兩個問題就是說我們既然已經是知道這個問題了那為什麼產品還在架上那剛剛還有談到一個我們網路平台銷售的問題那我也希望衛福部這邊能夠針對尤其是網路平台上面的這個銷售平台的這個問題能夠做一個控管\n\n15\n00:05:14,625 --> 00:05:32,642\n我也要幫我們民眾來問一下,如果買到類似的產品的時候,當還沒實用,能不能退貨?能不能退款?如果是我們有問題的這些產品,同一批號的話,我們是會要求廠商必須要接受退貨。\n\n16\n00:05:35,483 --> 00:05:55,488\n我本期看到這個寄生公司在事發後仍然在我們的公司的網頁上還有刊登這樣的一個貨品然後還有刊登我們的食藥署的輸入許可我想這部分會造成我們大眾的一個誤導這是非常嚴重的那當然我們在\n\n17\n00:05:56,288 --> 00:05:57,469\n停產,下架就是不能賽售問題他還在賣阿,像這個怎麼辦?\n\n18\n00:06:18,407 --> 00:06:20,988\n那我想請問部長,您認為這是蘇丹紅的辣椒粉的這個\n\n19\n00:06:48,223 --> 00:07:13,332\n案例是個案還是同案?還是系統性的?這是系統性的問題這是系統性的問題這樣子啦我想這樣子在我發現我們在尤其在保鮮公司保鮮公司下游的業者、計程公司被查出蘇丹紅辣椒粉原料我們送SGS去公司檢驗的時候已經被告知蘇丹紅的有蘇丹紅的成分那當然\n\n20\n00:07:14,392 --> 00:07:36,249\n後來那個公司又改造這個檢驗報告出貨到大賣場並賣出許多產品那我們檢方在3月1號搜索保鑫公司的時候發現保鑫公司下游業者曾經自主送驗發現含有蘇丹紅3號並退回保鑫公司那我要問的是為什麼我們檢驗公司沒有主動通報\n\n21\n00:07:37,689 --> 00:07:45,996\n本席建議好不好,本席建議,我們是不是可以讓檢驗公司納入食安通報的機制裡面?我想這個才是,這他也是可以幫我們來把關的一個地方。\n\n22\n00:08:01,192 --> 00:08:18,690\n那另外本席也認為就是說我們中央也應該加強跟地方政府的一個合作強化地方衛生局在市場端的查驗工作而不應該像我們西部特羅瘦肉精的時候跟地方來做對立我想這才是全民之福\n\n23\n00:08:20,491 --> 00:08:49,050\n我們看到吵吵鬧鬧的目前其實是合作在蘇丹紅這件事情在跟地方合作最後我做個結論就是說我們當然請政府重視食安的安全對於食安的五環我們盡量的來讓他嚴格來執行那另外當然剛剛我提到的協辦請這個檢驗公司納入這個通報機制那最後我在再請問部長就是說我們苗栗縣\n\n24\n00:08:50,091 --> 00:09:09,109\n每萬人口的醫師數、醫師人員或病床數都遠低於我們全國的平均值那醫療資源不足及分佈不均我們真的是非常期待改善那當然我也知道部長在這個不苗集中症大樓的部分已經協助了非常的多\n\n25\n00:09:09,409 --> 00:09:10,030\n現在有增加\n\n26\n00:09:37,910 --> 00:09:38,150\n應該是到28萬\n\n27\n00:09:44,370 --> 00:10:11,523\n那謝謝部長當然我也希望說這個部分能夠盡快的完成另外我們布苗旁邊的那塊地本來本需要協助幫我們布苗取得那因為拖太久那價格差了一點點現在很可惜被建商買走了那當然我也希望說我們會在另覓土地希望我們衛福部這邊來協助讓我們把我們苗栗的醫療提升可以嗎是當然是我們的目標\n\n28\n00:10:13,880 --> 00:10:14,021\n邱鎮軍委員\n\n","tsv":"start\tend\ttext\n13797\t13917\t學務部長\n22919\t44839\t部長你好我們還是一樣聊我聊聊我們這個蘇丹紅的問題剛剛我想很多委員都有提到同樣的問題這邊我就不再多講那我這樣看我們從事情發生到現在從到3月1號3月2號也陸續檢出這個我們食品中還有添加這個蘇丹紅\n46861\t60173\t昨天連海底撈也中標了問題在我看來是不斷滾雪球越滾越大我很懷疑的就是說我們的食安五環到底是出了什麼問題\n63981\t85343\t這部分的話其實食安五環還是運作還是應該說是差強人意今天這個辣椒粉添加蘇丹紅這件事情當然在源頭控管的部分我們在目前並沒有一個所謂的即時\n87864\t113369\t我這樣講啦 因為剛剛我也聽了很多那我知道我們很早就發現這個蘇丹紅已經有進到台灣來那當時我們抽驗的只是2%到10%嘛 對不對然後再增加到50%那我在想在2%到10%當我們有驗出來有蘇丹紅的時候我們只是提高了檢驗的標準有沒有去追溯我們這2%、10%到底跑去哪裡\n116448\t143689\t就是說沒有檢驗到的部分我這樣講我應該這一類產品進來的時候我們是不是當查到它有問題的時候是不是就應該要追它的流向當然你剛剛講到大陸那邊我們沒有辦法去干涉它可是我們的下游是不是能夠去追蹤因為這已經跑到我們的國內了那民眾很容易就會吃到所以這是非常嚴重的問題\n144369\t172482\t我想,我們衛福部這邊有沒有做什麼處理?跟委員報告,其實是這樣,如果被我們檢查出來的有問題的那一批的話,基本上就不能進入到我們的市場了。就會推銷。但是你剛剛部長講了,那個時候你只有抽2%、2%到10%嘛,對不對?那其他的勒?有90%的東西你是不是沒有驗到?所以說這個抽驗的比例是比較低是沒有錯,但是我們是跟...我們就以20%來算啦齁。\n173883\t185187\t如果這樣回退回去,我認為我們進到國內至少有20公斤的蘇丹紅進到我們台灣來。那是不是這20萬公斤已經讓我們民眾吃下肚?\n189206\t196173\t我這樣講,我們現在在追,我們後來在補驗的這些東西我們到現在,上次剛剛部長講59批那29號那天我們的林副署長,他還說是63批,到底是59還是63?\n212784\t218048\t目前是應該是59批那在這之前的呢\n219795\t249153\t因為在擴大抽檢之前的話有4批已經是已經抽完這樣子啦本席建議啦就是說不管幾批那我認為說既然現在問題已經發生了我們大家一起努力協助來解決這個問題才是重點那我也希望我們衛福部這邊能夠認真一點我們把之前有可能會有疑慮的這些產品能夠去追讓我們的國人能夠在食安方面能夠得到更多的保障可以嗎\n253202\t257348\t那我們現在是不是已經完全掌握到污染的原料的流向?\n259000\t283326\t對,所以就是已經會有這種漏網之魚的話,現在我們就是正在追查。我們是否已經全面的下架還有回收我們已製成的這個產品?有,因為漏網之魚指的是說當時並沒有抽驗到的,但是並不表示說他一定是不合格。所以當我們去追的時候,我們還是必須要再驗。\n284605\t312864\t因為這樣子啦,我們昨天還在這個還發現我們市面上還買得到這個海底撈我們還是看得到那我現在有兩個問題就是說我們既然已經是知道這個問題了那為什麼產品還在架上那剛剛還有談到一個我們網路平台銷售的問題那我也希望衛福部這邊能夠針對尤其是網路平台上面的這個銷售平台的這個問題能夠做一個控管\n314625\t332642\t我也要幫我們民眾來問一下,如果買到類似的產品的時候,當還沒實用,能不能退貨?能不能退款?如果是我們有問題的這些產品,同一批號的話,我們是會要求廠商必須要接受退貨。\n335483\t355488\t我本期看到這個寄生公司在事發後仍然在我們的公司的網頁上還有刊登這樣的一個貨品然後還有刊登我們的食藥署的輸入許可我想這部分會造成我們大眾的一個誤導這是非常嚴重的那當然我們在\n356288\t357469\t停產,下架就是不能賽售問題他還在賣阿,像這個怎麼辦?\n378407\t380988\t那我想請問部長,您認為這是蘇丹紅的辣椒粉的這個\n408223\t433332\t案例是個案還是同案?還是系統性的?這是系統性的問題這是系統性的問題這樣子啦我想這樣子在我發現我們在尤其在保鮮公司保鮮公司下游的業者、計程公司被查出蘇丹紅辣椒粉原料我們送SGS去公司檢驗的時候已經被告知蘇丹紅的有蘇丹紅的成分那當然\n434392\t456249\t後來那個公司又改造這個檢驗報告出貨到大賣場並賣出許多產品那我們檢方在3月1號搜索保鑫公司的時候發現保鑫公司下游業者曾經自主送驗發現含有蘇丹紅3號並退回保鑫公司那我要問的是為什麼我們檢驗公司沒有主動通報\n457689\t465996\t本席建議好不好,本席建議,我們是不是可以讓檢驗公司納入食安通報的機制裡面?我想這個才是,這他也是可以幫我們來把關的一個地方。\n481192\t498690\t那另外本席也認為就是說我們中央也應該加強跟地方政府的一個合作強化地方衛生局在市場端的查驗工作而不應該像我們西部特羅瘦肉精的時候跟地方來做對立我想這才是全民之福\n500491\t529050\t我們看到吵吵鬧鬧的目前其實是合作在蘇丹紅這件事情在跟地方合作最後我做個結論就是說我們當然請政府重視食安的安全對於食安的五環我們盡量的來讓他嚴格來執行那另外當然剛剛我提到的協辦請這個檢驗公司納入這個通報機制那最後我在再請問部長就是說我們苗栗縣\n530091\t549109\t每萬人口的醫師數、醫師人員或病床數都遠低於我們全國的平均值那醫療資源不足及分佈不均我們真的是非常期待改善那當然我也知道部長在這個不苗集中症大樓的部分已經協助了非常的多\n549409\t550030\t現在有增加\n577910\t578150\t應該是到28萬\n584370\t611523\t那謝謝部長當然我也希望說這個部分能夠盡快的完成另外我們布苗旁邊的那塊地本來本需要協助幫我們布苗取得那因為拖太久那價格差了一點點現在很可惜被建商買走了那當然我也希望說我們會在另覓土地希望我們衛福部這邊來協助讓我們把我們苗栗的醫療提升可以嗎是當然是我們的目標\n613880\t614021\t邱鎮軍委員\n","txt":"學務部長\n部長你好我們還是一樣聊我聊聊我們這個蘇丹紅的問題剛剛我想很多委員都有提到同樣的問題這邊我就不再多講那我這樣看我們從事情發生到現在從到3月1號3月2號也陸續檢出這個我們食品中還有添加這個蘇丹紅\n昨天連海底撈也中標了問題在我看來是不斷滾雪球越滾越大我很懷疑的就是說我們的食安五環到底是出了什麼問題\n這部分的話其實食安五環還是運作還是應該說是差強人意今天這個辣椒粉添加蘇丹紅這件事情當然在源頭控管的部分我們在目前並沒有一個所謂的即時\n我這樣講啦 因為剛剛我也聽了很多那我知道我們很早就發現這個蘇丹紅已經有進到台灣來那當時我們抽驗的只是2%到10%嘛 對不對然後再增加到50%那我在想在2%到10%當我們有驗出來有蘇丹紅的時候我們只是提高了檢驗的標準有沒有去追溯我們這2%、10%到底跑去哪裡\n就是說沒有檢驗到的部分我這樣講我應該這一類產品進來的時候我們是不是當查到它有問題的時候是不是就應該要追它的流向當然你剛剛講到大陸那邊我們沒有辦法去干涉它可是我們的下游是不是能夠去追蹤因為這已經跑到我們的國內了那民眾很容易就會吃到所以這是非常嚴重的問題\n我想,我們衛福部這邊有沒有做什麼處理?跟委員報告,其實是這樣,如果被我們檢查出來的有問題的那一批的話,基本上就不能進入到我們的市場了。就會推銷。但是你剛剛部長講了,那個時候你只有抽2%、2%到10%嘛,對不對?那其他的勒?有90%的東西你是不是沒有驗到?所以說這個抽驗的比例是比較低是沒有錯,但是我們是跟...我們就以20%來算啦齁。\n如果這樣回退回去,我認為我們進到國內至少有20公斤的蘇丹紅進到我們台灣來。那是不是這20萬公斤已經讓我們民眾吃下肚?\n我這樣講,我們現在在追,我們後來在補驗的這些東西我們到現在,上次剛剛部長講59批那29號那天我們的林副署長,他還說是63批,到底是59還是63?\n目前是應該是59批那在這之前的呢\n因為在擴大抽檢之前的話有4批已經是已經抽完這樣子啦本席建議啦就是說不管幾批那我認為說既然現在問題已經發生了我們大家一起努力協助來解決這個問題才是重點那我也希望我們衛福部這邊能夠認真一點我們把之前有可能會有疑慮的這些產品能夠去追讓我們的國人能夠在食安方面能夠得到更多的保障可以嗎\n那我們現在是不是已經完全掌握到污染的原料的流向?\n對,所以就是已經會有這種漏網之魚的話,現在我們就是正在追查。我們是否已經全面的下架還有回收我們已製成的這個產品?有,因為漏網之魚指的是說當時並沒有抽驗到的,但是並不表示說他一定是不合格。所以當我們去追的時候,我們還是必須要再驗。\n因為這樣子啦,我們昨天還在這個還發現我們市面上還買得到這個海底撈我們還是看得到那我現在有兩個問題就是說我們既然已經是知道這個問題了那為什麼產品還在架上那剛剛還有談到一個我們網路平台銷售的問題那我也希望衛福部這邊能夠針對尤其是網路平台上面的這個銷售平台的這個問題能夠做一個控管\n我也要幫我們民眾來問一下,如果買到類似的產品的時候,當還沒實用,能不能退貨?能不能退款?如果是我們有問題的這些產品,同一批號的話,我們是會要求廠商必須要接受退貨。\n我本期看到這個寄生公司在事發後仍然在我們的公司的網頁上還有刊登這樣的一個貨品然後還有刊登我們的食藥署的輸入許可我想這部分會造成我們大眾的一個誤導這是非常嚴重的那當然我們在\n停產,下架就是不能賽售問題他還在賣阿,像這個怎麼辦?\n那我想請問部長,您認為這是蘇丹紅的辣椒粉的這個\n案例是個案還是同案?還是系統性的?這是系統性的問題這是系統性的問題這樣子啦我想這樣子在我發現我們在尤其在保鮮公司保鮮公司下游的業者、計程公司被查出蘇丹紅辣椒粉原料我們送SGS去公司檢驗的時候已經被告知蘇丹紅的有蘇丹紅的成分那當然\n後來那個公司又改造這個檢驗報告出貨到大賣場並賣出許多產品那我們檢方在3月1號搜索保鑫公司的時候發現保鑫公司下游業者曾經自主送驗發現含有蘇丹紅3號並退回保鑫公司那我要問的是為什麼我們檢驗公司沒有主動通報\n本席建議好不好,本席建議,我們是不是可以讓檢驗公司納入食安通報的機制裡面?我想這個才是,這他也是可以幫我們來把關的一個地方。\n那另外本席也認為就是說我們中央也應該加強跟地方政府的一個合作強化地方衛生局在市場端的查驗工作而不應該像我們西部特羅瘦肉精的時候跟地方來做對立我想這才是全民之福\n我們看到吵吵鬧鬧的目前其實是合作在蘇丹紅這件事情在跟地方合作最後我做個結論就是說我們當然請政府重視食安的安全對於食安的五環我們盡量的來讓他嚴格來執行那另外當然剛剛我提到的協辦請這個檢驗公司納入這個通報機制那最後我在再請問部長就是說我們苗栗縣\n每萬人口的醫師數、醫師人員或病床數都遠低於我們全國的平均值那醫療資源不足及分佈不均我們真的是非常期待改善那當然我也知道部長在這個不苗集中症大樓的部分已經協助了非常的多\n現在有增加\n應該是到28萬\n那謝謝部長當然我也希望說這個部分能夠盡快的完成另外我們布苗旁邊的那塊地本來本需要協助幫我們布苗取得那因為拖太久那價格差了一點點現在很可惜被建商買走了那當然我也希望說我們會在另覓土地希望我們衛福部這邊來協助讓我們把我們苗栗的醫療提升可以嗎是當然是我們的目標\n邱鎮軍委員\n","vtt":"WEBVTT\n\n00:13.797 --> 00:13.917\n學務部長\n\n00:22.919 --> 00:44.839\n部長你好我們還是一樣聊我聊聊我們這個蘇丹紅的問題剛剛我想很多委員都有提到同樣的問題這邊我就不再多講那我這樣看我們從事情發生到現在從到3月1號3月2號也陸續檢出這個我們食品中還有添加這個蘇丹紅\n\n00:46.861 --> 01:00.173\n昨天連海底撈也中標了問題在我看來是不斷滾雪球越滾越大我很懷疑的就是說我們的食安五環到底是出了什麼問題\n\n01:03.981 --> 01:25.343\n這部分的話其實食安五環還是運作還是應該說是差強人意今天這個辣椒粉添加蘇丹紅這件事情當然在源頭控管的部分我們在目前並沒有一個所謂的即時\n\n01:27.864 --> 01:53.369\n我這樣講啦因為剛剛我也聽了很多那我知道我們很早就發現這個蘇丹紅已經有進到台灣來那當時我們抽驗的只是2%到10%嘛對不對然後再增加到50%那我在想在2%到10%當我們有驗出來有蘇丹紅的時候我們只是提高了檢驗的標準有沒有去追溯我們這2%、10%到底跑去哪裡\n\n01:56.448 --> 02:23.689\n就是說沒有檢驗到的部分我這樣講我應該這一類產品進來的時候我們是不是當查到它有問題的時候是不是就應該要追它的流向當然你剛剛講到大陸那邊我們沒有辦法去干涉它可是我們的下游是不是能夠去追蹤因為這已經跑到我們的國內了那民眾很容易就會吃到所以這是非常嚴重的問題\n\n02:24.369 --> 02:52.482\n我想,我們衛福部這邊有沒有做什麼處理?跟委員報告,其實是這樣,如果被我們檢查出來的有問題的那一批的話,基本上就不能進入到我們的市場了。就會推銷。但是你剛剛部長講了,那個時候你只有抽2%、2%到10%嘛,對不對?那其他的勒?有90%的東西你是不是沒有驗到?所以說這個抽驗的比例是比較低是沒有錯,但是我們是跟...我們就以20%來算啦齁。\n\n02:53.883 --> 03:05.187\n如果這樣回退回去,我認為我們進到國內至少有20公斤的蘇丹紅進到我們台灣來。那是不是這20萬公斤已經讓我們民眾吃下肚?\n\n03:09.206 --> 03:16.173\n我這樣講,我們現在在追,我們後來在補驗的這些東西我們到現在,上次剛剛部長講59批那29號那天我們的林副署長,他還說是63批,到底是59還是63?\n\n03:32.784 --> 03:38.048\n目前是應該是59批那在這之前的呢\n\n03:39.795 --> 04:09.153\n因為在擴大抽檢之前的話有4批已經是已經抽完這樣子啦本席建議啦就是說不管幾批那我認為說既然現在問題已經發生了我們大家一起努力協助來解決這個問題才是重點那我也希望我們衛福部這邊能夠認真一點我們把之前有可能會有疑慮的這些產品能夠去追讓我們的國人能夠在食安方面能夠得到更多的保障可以嗎\n\n04:13.202 --> 04:17.348\n那我們現在是不是已經完全掌握到污染的原料的流向?\n\n04:19.000 --> 04:43.326\n對,所以就是已經會有這種漏網之魚的話,現在我們就是正在追查。我們是否已經全面的下架還有回收我們已製成的這個產品?有,因為漏網之魚指的是說當時並沒有抽驗到的,但是並不表示說他一定是不合格。所以當我們去追的時候,我們還是必須要再驗。\n\n04:44.605 --> 05:12.864\n因為這樣子啦,我們昨天還在這個還發現我們市面上還買得到這個海底撈我們還是看得到那我現在有兩個問題就是說我們既然已經是知道這個問題了那為什麼產品還在架上那剛剛還有談到一個我們網路平台銷售的問題那我也希望衛福部這邊能夠針對尤其是網路平台上面的這個銷售平台的這個問題能夠做一個控管\n\n05:14.625 --> 05:32.642\n我也要幫我們民眾來問一下,如果買到類似的產品的時候,當還沒實用,能不能退貨?能不能退款?如果是我們有問題的這些產品,同一批號的話,我們是會要求廠商必須要接受退貨。\n\n05:35.483 --> 05:55.488\n我本期看到這個寄生公司在事發後仍然在我們的公司的網頁上還有刊登這樣的一個貨品然後還有刊登我們的食藥署的輸入許可我想這部分會造成我們大眾的一個誤導這是非常嚴重的那當然我們在\n\n05:56.288 --> 05:57.469\n停產,下架就是不能賽售問題他還在賣阿,像這個怎麼辦?\n\n06:18.407 --> 06:20.988\n那我想請問部長,您認為這是蘇丹紅的辣椒粉的這個\n\n06:48.223 --> 07:13.332\n案例是個案還是同案?還是系統性的?這是系統性的問題這是系統性的問題這樣子啦我想這樣子在我發現我們在尤其在保鮮公司保鮮公司下游的業者、計程公司被查出蘇丹紅辣椒粉原料我們送SGS去公司檢驗的時候已經被告知蘇丹紅的有蘇丹紅的成分那當然\n\n07:14.392 --> 07:36.249\n後來那個公司又改造這個檢驗報告出貨到大賣場並賣出許多產品那我們檢方在3月1號搜索保鑫公司的時候發現保鑫公司下游業者曾經自主送驗發現含有蘇丹紅3號並退回保鑫公司那我要問的是為什麼我們檢驗公司沒有主動通報\n\n07:37.689 --> 07:45.996\n本席建議好不好,本席建議,我們是不是可以讓檢驗公司納入食安通報的機制裡面?我想這個才是,這他也是可以幫我們來把關的一個地方。\n\n08:01.192 --> 08:18.690\n那另外本席也認為就是說我們中央也應該加強跟地方政府的一個合作強化地方衛生局在市場端的查驗工作而不應該像我們西部特羅瘦肉精的時候跟地方來做對立我想這才是全民之福\n\n08:20.491 --> 08:49.050\n我們看到吵吵鬧鬧的目前其實是合作在蘇丹紅這件事情在跟地方合作最後我做個結論就是說我們當然請政府重視食安的安全對於食安的五環我們盡量的來讓他嚴格來執行那另外當然剛剛我提到的協辦請這個檢驗公司納入這個通報機制那最後我在再請問部長就是說我們苗栗縣\n\n08:50.091 --> 09:09.109\n每萬人口的醫師數、醫師人員或病床數都遠低於我們全國的平均值那醫療資源不足及分佈不均我們真的是非常期待改善那當然我也知道部長在這個不苗集中症大樓的部分已經協助了非常的多\n\n09:09.409 --> 09:10.030\n現在有增加\n\n09:37.910 --> 09:38.150\n應該是到28萬\n\n09:44.370 --> 10:11.523\n那謝謝部長當然我也希望說這個部分能夠盡快的完成另外我們布苗旁邊的那塊地本來本需要協助幫我們布苗取得那因為拖太久那價格差了一點點現在很可惜被建商買走了那當然我也希望說我們會在另覓土地希望我們衛福部這邊來協助讓我們把我們苗栗的醫療提升可以嗎是當然是我們的目標\n\n10:13.880 --> 10:14.021\n邱鎮軍委員\n\n","segments":[{"start":13.797,"end":13.917,"text":"學務部長"},{"start":22.919,"end":44.839,"text":"部長你好我們還是一樣聊我聊聊我們這個蘇丹紅的問題剛剛我想很多委員都有提到同樣的問題這邊我就不再多講那我這樣看我們從事情發生到現在從到3月1號3月2號也陸續檢出這個我們食品中還有添加這個蘇丹紅"},{"start":46.861,"end":60.173,"text":"昨天連海底撈也中標了問題在我看來是不斷滾雪球越滾越大我很懷疑的就是說我們的食安五環到底是出了什麼問題"},{"start":63.981,"end":85.343,"text":"這部分的話其實食安五環還是運作還是應該說是差強人意今天這個辣椒粉添加蘇丹紅這件事情當然在源頭控管的部分我們在目前並沒有一個所謂的即時"},{"start":87.864,"end":113.369,"text":"我這樣講啦 因為剛剛我也聽了很多那我知道我們很早就發現這個蘇丹紅已經有進到台灣來那當時我們抽驗的只是2%到10%嘛 對不對然後再增加到50%那我在想在2%到10%當我們有驗出來有蘇丹紅的時候我們只是提高了檢驗的標準有沒有去追溯我們這2%、10%到底跑去哪裡"},{"start":116.448,"end":143.689,"text":"就是說沒有檢驗到的部分我這樣講我應該這一類產品進來的時候我們是不是當查到它有問題的時候是不是就應該要追它的流向當然你剛剛講到大陸那邊我們沒有辦法去干涉它可是我們的下游是不是能夠去追蹤因為這已經跑到我們的國內了那民眾很容易就會吃到所以這是非常嚴重的問題"},{"start":144.369,"end":172.482,"text":"我想,我們衛福部這邊有沒有做什麼處理?跟委員報告,其實是這樣,如果被我們檢查出來的有問題的那一批的話,基本上就不能進入到我們的市場了。就會推銷。但是你剛剛部長講了,那個時候你只有抽2%、2%到10%嘛,對不對?那其他的勒?有90%的東西你是不是沒有驗到?所以說這個抽驗的比例是比較低是沒有錯,但是我們是跟...我們就以20%來算啦齁。"},{"start":173.883,"end":185.187,"text":"如果這樣回退回去,我認為我們進到國內至少有20公斤的蘇丹紅進到我們台灣來。那是不是這20萬公斤已經讓我們民眾吃下肚?"},{"start":189.206,"end":196.173,"text":"我這樣講,我們現在在追,我們後來在補驗的這些東西我們到現在,上次剛剛部長講59批那29號那天我們的林副署長,他還說是63批,到底是59還是63?"},{"start":212.784,"end":218.048,"text":"目前是應該是59批那在這之前的呢"},{"start":219.795,"end":249.153,"text":"因為在擴大抽檢之前的話有4批已經是已經抽完這樣子啦本席建議啦就是說不管幾批那我認為說既然現在問題已經發生了我們大家一起努力協助來解決這個問題才是重點那我也希望我們衛福部這邊能夠認真一點我們把之前有可能會有疑慮的這些產品能夠去追讓我們的國人能夠在食安方面能夠得到更多的保障可以嗎"},{"start":253.202,"end":257.348,"text":"那我們現在是不是已經完全掌握到污染的原料的流向?"},{"start":259,"end":283.326,"text":"對,所以就是已經會有這種漏網之魚的話,現在我們就是正在追查。我們是否已經全面的下架還有回收我們已製成的這個產品?有,因為漏網之魚指的是說當時並沒有抽驗到的,但是並不表示說他一定是不合格。所以當我們去追的時候,我們還是必須要再驗。"},{"start":284.605,"end":312.864,"text":"因為這樣子啦,我們昨天還在這個還發現我們市面上還買得到這個海底撈我們還是看得到那我現在有兩個問題就是說我們既然已經是知道這個問題了那為什麼產品還在架上那剛剛還有談到一個我們網路平台銷售的問題那我也希望衛福部這邊能夠針對尤其是網路平台上面的這個銷售平台的這個問題能夠做一個控管"},{"start":314.625,"end":332.642,"text":"我也要幫我們民眾來問一下,如果買到類似的產品的時候,當還沒實用,能不能退貨?能不能退款?如果是我們有問題的這些產品,同一批號的話,我們是會要求廠商必須要接受退貨。"},{"start":335.483,"end":355.488,"text":"我本期看到這個寄生公司在事發後仍然在我們的公司的網頁上還有刊登這樣的一個貨品然後還有刊登我們的食藥署的輸入許可我想這部分會造成我們大眾的一個誤導這是非常嚴重的那當然我們在"},{"start":356.288,"end":357.469,"text":"停產,下架就是不能賽售問題他還在賣阿,像這個怎麼辦?"},{"start":378.407,"end":380.988,"text":"那我想請問部長,您認為這是蘇丹紅的辣椒粉的這個"},{"start":408.223,"end":433.332,"text":"案例是個案還是同案?還是系統性的?這是系統性的問題這是系統性的問題這樣子啦我想這樣子在我發現我們在尤其在保鮮公司保鮮公司下游的業者、計程公司被查出蘇丹紅辣椒粉原料我們送SGS去公司檢驗的時候已經被告知蘇丹紅的有蘇丹紅的成分那當然"},{"start":434.392,"end":456.249,"text":"後來那個公司又改造這個檢驗報告出貨到大賣場並賣出許多產品那我們檢方在3月1號搜索保鑫公司的時候發現保鑫公司下游業者曾經自主送驗發現含有蘇丹紅3號並退回保鑫公司那我要問的是為什麼我們檢驗公司沒有主動通報"},{"start":457.689,"end":465.996,"text":"本席建議好不好,本席建議,我們是不是可以讓檢驗公司納入食安通報的機制裡面?我想這個才是,這他也是可以幫我們來把關的一個地方。"},{"start":481.192,"end":498.69,"text":"那另外本席也認為就是說我們中央也應該加強跟地方政府的一個合作強化地方衛生局在市場端的查驗工作而不應該像我們西部特羅瘦肉精的時候跟地方來做對立我想這才是全民之福"},{"start":500.491,"end":529.05,"text":"我們看到吵吵鬧鬧的目前其實是合作在蘇丹紅這件事情在跟地方合作最後我做個結論就是說我們當然請政府重視食安的安全對於食安的五環我們盡量的來讓他嚴格來執行那另外當然剛剛我提到的協辦請這個檢驗公司納入這個通報機制那最後我在再請問部長就是說我們苗栗縣"},{"start":530.091,"end":549.109,"text":"每萬人口的醫師數、醫師人員或病床數都遠低於我們全國的平均值那醫療資源不足及分佈不均我們真的是非常期待改善那當然我也知道部長在這個不苗集中症大樓的部分已經協助了非常的多"},{"start":549.409,"end":550.03,"text":"現在有增加"},{"start":577.91,"end":578.15,"text":"應該是到28萬"},{"start":584.37,"end":611.523,"text":"那謝謝部長當然我也希望說這個部分能夠盡快的完成另外我們布苗旁邊的那塊地本來本需要協助幫我們布苗取得那因為拖太久那價格差了一點點現在很可惜被建商買走了那當然我也希望說我們會在另覓土地希望我們衛福部這邊來協助讓我們把我們苗栗的醫療提升可以嗎是當然是我們的目標"},{"start":613.88,"end":614.021,"text":"邱鎮軍委員"}]}}}}