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10:14:34","影片長度":"00:10:00","會議時間":"2024-03-04T09:00:00+08:00","會議名稱":"立法院第11屆第1會期交通委員會第2次全體委員會議（事由：邀請行政院公共工程委員會主任委員吳澤成列席報告業務概況，並備質詢。【3月4日、6日及7日三天一次會】）","meet":{"tmpMeeting":null,"title":"第11屆第1會期交通委員會第2次全體委員會議","term":11,"type":"委員會","sessionPeriod":1,"sessionTimes":2,"committees":[23],"id":"委員會-11-1-23-2"},"date":"2024-03-04","duration":600,"end_time":"2024-03-04T10:14:34+08:00","start_time":"2024-03-04T10:04:34+08:00","features":["ai-transcript","gazette"],"type":"Clip","gazette":{"lineno":417,"blocks":[["魯委員明哲：（10時4分）謝謝主席，有請工程會吳主委。"],["主席：請吳主委。"],["吳主任委員澤成：委員，你好！"],["魯委員明哲：吳主委，在上一屆其實我們談了滿多公共工程各個面向的問題，尤其是在上個任期我一上任的時候，我們對桃機T3、R3的問題也聊了滿多的，也謝謝你啦！因為工程會有你去特別督導，尤其像T3、R3這個部分你本身也不斷的在督促，因為當時流標了非常多次。現在談到我們桃園機場的第三航廈、第三跑道，剛好我們桃園機場南跑道在歲修，你知道昨天晚上造成什麼嗎？辦了什麼活動嗎？就是贈送香港來臺旅客有飛到日本的感覺，你瞭解嘛！就是1個小時，再送他3個小時。可是我感覺其實這是一個安全的問題，那是桃機公司或者民航局的另外一個領域，我們現在在談的是T3、R3真的是非常的急迫，有這樣的需要，而不像在疫情的時候感覺沒什麼客人來、沒有什麼航班落地，那時候桃機都說正好藉這兩、三年要好好札實的改善一下跑道，結果還沒1年，當然這是定期的歲修啊！我又想因為這麼急，當時桃機第三航廈原計畫經費是746億，前幾天機場公司跟民航局說目前預估至少漲三成，按照原始計畫的比例，大概會漲到四成多，對這個情況你應該比較瞭解為什麼會這樣的原因吧！我記得在去年的時候你也特別說，事實上，現在營建在很多方面，像材料的指數都已經回穩了，對於現在這個情況，經費漲這麼多，第一個，你知不知道？第二個，你看是什麼樣的一些問題？有沒有可能避免？麻煩主委來說明一下。"],["吳主任委員澤成：關於這個數字，在上個禮拜魯委員有跟桃機要資料，楊董事長已經有告訴我這個情形，這個案子確實從開始到現在，我講白話一點，今天如果沒有疫情，恐怕更嚴重，我話是這樣講，我是很務實的，所以我們一直在督促他們應該要趕快加速來進行。現在因為物價的關係增加了相當多的經費，那麼也應該要趕快，該報院就報院，趕快來調整這個計畫經費。"],["魯委員明哲：好，主委，我們都很關心這個重大工程，當然這只是冰山的一角，有超級多的工程，不管是軌道工程或者其他的，包括高速公路，就是我們交通委員會的很多工程都面臨類似的問題，其實我真的覺得在疫情過後很多的問題看起來，在營建方面不管是公共工程或者個人的營造工程，我覺得它面臨的問題真的沒有太大的緩解，第一個是大缺工的時代；第二個是公共工程大缺錢的時代；第三個就是在疫後居然可能面臨到高風險，可是不管營造或者運輸業卻無保險的時代，在過去我完全沒有想到怎麼會發生有錢卻沒有人要去保的事情，所以現在面臨這樣的情況，都會影響到公共工程。","第二個，我想請教一下公共工程安全的問題，像我們現在在簡報上面講的很多都是個人的工程，可是我們發覺它都是滿知名的營造廠商做的，那有部分的營造廠商可能也在做公共工程，我也特別看到基泰建設的問題、興富發的吊臂倒下來等問題，我也有看到，我覺得你滿負責任的，你沒有說這是私人的所以你不管，因為都是工程，工程有很多影響的因素，有些是管理的缺失，有受地質影響的可能性，這個部分在公共工程確實會發生，有可能可以去引用、學習。我特別看到你在去年的時候說馬上要開會，開了兩場會議，到底大概擬出了什麼樣的方向，可不可以藉這個機會來說一下？"],["吳主任委員澤成：好，特別跟委員報告，我們經過檢討之後發現幾點，第一個，工地的災害，公共工程比較少，民間工程比較多，存在這個現象，公共工程會比較少的原因是因為主辦機關有在統合、整合，從設計、監造、施工解決問題、看出問題來處理；民間工程從設計、監造到施工各自為政、沒有統合，我們經過檢討之後，建議內政部應該要把這個部分統合起來，甚至於連鑽探也是獨立的，資料互相之間的連結確認很重要，所以我正在推動這個部分。"],["魯委員明哲：我希望透過這個會議的專家結論，無論如何要提升工程的品質，有時候我們做得好，民間企業也會去學，所以我覺得互相學習、經驗累積非常重要。","我今天要談的最後一個問題，我覺得真的是危機，因為今年年初到現在我已經辦了兩次的協調會，兩次都是運輸界，很大的公司每天幾百臺貨車出去，但現在很多保險公司不承保了，不是風險係數變高，把保費增加就能保，雖然過去我們的想像都是這樣。現在很多公司不承保了，可是不保不是影響那一家貨運公司而已，可能駕駛本身要出去面對，以及路人也可能面臨到很多情況，萬一不幸發生重大事故的時候，可能就擺爛了。前一陣子是租賃車也不保了，聽說後續還會有很多，像營造業及運輸界有很多卡車，他們在公共工程或者民間工程是載砂石、運輸的主力。主委真的要幫忙注意這件事，過去的保險機制有一半都不見了，至少目前貨車貨運及租賃業都面臨到保險公司完全不保，不是提高保費的問題，請金管會協調，它卻只能建議。","關於營造公共工程，主委也看到工商時報做了統計，營造綜合險5年保費及賠款率，就是這些保險公司的收入跟賠多少了，我們看到2023年的保費收入是46.95億，賠款率到達百分之百，所以現在也傳出部分的公共工程，很多產險業者不太願意承保。當然他們講了主要的理由，是因為國際再保市場也覺得風險太高了，風險原本可以轉嫁，卻轉嫁不出去。第二個，公司本身有承保能量問題，可能也是疫情的災害，因為疫情災害，很多保險公司已經賠到借款、虧本了。第三個是保險條件不符招標規範，你們有很多契約範本，譬如自負額，像我們自己要去投保，最多我們付10%，其他可能都要轉嫁保險公司。過去看起來保險公司願意承保，現在看起來他們覺得這樣他們也沒辦法了，因為疫情，好多家都賠了幾百億、都負債了。如果這個事情確實發生在公共工程上面，也就是公共工程發生什麼意外災害，對於界內，勞工朋友的保險可能不足；對於外面，可能影響到鄰損根本沒有保險好賠，發生事情就倒掉，縱使優質的營造廠也經不起一、兩次大型的災害。最後，因為聽到這麼多各行各業確實可能面臨高風險無保險的時代，請主委針對營造、公共工程這個部分來瞭解、協調，可不可以？"],["吳主任委員澤成：馬上來做，非常謝謝委員提供這個訊息。"],["魯委員明哲：好，謝謝。"],["吳主任委員澤成：謝謝。"],["主席：魯委員發言完畢。我們現在請何欣純委員發言。"]],"agenda":{"page_end":254,"meet_id":"委員會-11-1-23-2","speakers":["李昆澤","林沛祥","黃健豪","廖先翔","徐富癸","林國成","林俊憲","魯明哲","何欣純","陳素月","邱若華","游顥","蔡其昌","許智傑","陳俊宇","邱志偉"],"page_start":211,"meetingDate":["2024-03-04"],"gazette_id":"1130901","agenda_lcidc_ids":["1130901_00004"],"meet_name":"立法院第11屆第1會期交通委員會第2次全體委員會議紀錄","content":"邀請行政院公共工程委員會主任委員吳澤成列席報告業務概況，並備質詢","agenda_id":"1130901_00003"}},"transcript":{"id":"149215","pyannote":{"name":"ronny","tool":"pyannote","data":{"url":"https://ivod.ly.gov.tw/Play/Clip/1M/149215","tool":"pyannote","id":"149215-pyannote"},"job_id":"l3CG1W9XsQlwia0P","queued_at":"2024-06-02 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0.998}, {\"word\": \"供\", \"start\": 595.141, \"end\": 595.502, \"score\": 0.889}, {\"word\": \"這\"}, {\"word\": \"個\"}, {\"word\": \"訊\"}, {\"word\": \"息\", \"start\": 595.502, \"end\": 596.623, \"score\": 0.964}, {\"word\": \"好\", \"start\": 596.623, \"end\": 596.643, \"score\": 0.469}, {\"word\": \",\"}, {\"word\": \"謝\"}, {\"word\": \"謝\"}], \"language\": \"zh\"}","srt":"1\n00:00:00,269 --> 00:00:26,501\n公共工程各面向的問題尤其是這個上個任期一上任的時候我們淘機T3、R3的問題也聊蠻多的後面也知道也謝謝你因為工程會由你去特別督導尤其這個像T3、R3這個部分你本身也不斷在督促因為當時流標了非常多那剛好\n\n2\n00:00:27,361 --> 00:00:41,867\n現在談到我們桃園機場的第三航廈第三跑道剛好昨天晚上這個稅休我們桃園機場南跑道的稅休然後造成了造成什麼辦了什麼活動你知道嗎\n\n3\n00:00:42,967 --> 00:00:58,161\n正送香港來台旅客有飛到日本的感覺了解嗎?一個小時再送他三個小時可是我感覺其實這是一個安全的問題那淘機公司或者民航局那另外一個領域\n\n4\n00:00:59,844 --> 00:01:24,671\n我們現在談的是T3、R3真的是非常的急迫有這樣的一個需要而不像在疫情的時候感覺沒有什麼客人來沒有什麼航班落地那種感覺那時候陶吉都說我們正好借這個兩三年好好扎實來改善一下這個跑道結果還沒一年當然他定期的稅休那我就想因為這麼急\n\n5\n00:01:26,857 --> 00:01:49,149\n我們當時淘機三航廈從原計劃經費746億那前幾天我們機場公司跟民航局來說他說目前預估至少漲三成那按照原始計劃這個比例大概會漲到四成多這個情況\n\n6\n00:01:52,227 --> 00:01:52,407\n委員會主任委員\n\n7\n00:02:07,725 --> 00:02:10,948\n這一個數字上個禮拜陸委員有跟這個陶基要這個資料那一個楊董事長已經有告訴我這個情形那這個案子確實從開始到現在\n\n8\n00:02:34,451 --> 00:02:47,143\n我講白話一點今天如果沒有這個疫情恐怕更嚴重我話是這樣講我是很務實的所以我們一直在督促他們應該要趕快加速來進行\n\n9\n00:02:48,683 --> 00:02:48,863\n主席\n\n10\n00:03:18,783 --> 00:03:45,613\n其實我真的是覺得疫情過後很多的問題看起來真的營建不管是公共工程或者個人的營造工程它面臨的問題我覺得真的沒有太大的緩解一個大缺工的時代第二個在公共工程大缺錢的時代第三個可能面臨到以後居然有可能面臨到高風險的不管是營造或者運輸業無保險的時代\n\n11\n00:03:47,734 --> 00:03:48,935\n委員會主任委員會主席委員會主席\n\n12\n00:04:10,270 --> 00:04:10,570\n吳澤成列席報告\n\n13\n00:04:32,518 --> 00:04:32,538\n議員吳澤成\n\n14\n00:04:47,915 --> 00:04:49,116\n公共工程比較少民間工程比較多這個現象就存在\n\n15\n00:05:12,276 --> 00:05:30,318\n公共工程會比較少的原因是因為他主辦機關他有在統合、整合從設計、建造、施工解決問題、看出問題來做一個處理民間工程從設計、建造到施工\n\n16\n00:05:31,769 --> 00:05:51,270\n各自為政沒有一個統合所以我們經過檢討之後我們建議內政部應該把這個部分要把它統合起來甚至於連那個鑽探也是獨立的那結果資料的互相之間的連結確認很重要所以這個部分我正在推動這個部分\n\n17\n00:05:52,071 --> 00:06:15,969\n所以希望透過你這個會議你們專家的一個結論無論如何要提升工程的品質有時候我們做得好民間的企業也會去學所以我覺得互相的學習經驗累積非常重要那我今天要談的最後一個問題其實我覺得真的是危機因為在今年年初我現在已經辦了兩次的協調會第一次是這個兩次都是運輸界就是包括貨車\n\n18\n00:06:17,430 --> 00:06:17,670\n委員會主席\n\n19\n00:06:35,660 --> 00:06:50,085\n可是不保不是說那一家的貨運公司他要出去面對可能駕駛是本身路人可能面臨到很多這個情況如果萬一不幸發生重大事故的時候是沒有人可能就擺爛了\n\n20\n00:06:51,704 --> 00:06:54,685\n委員會主任委員會主任委員會主任委員會主任委員會主任委員會主任委員會主任委員會主任委員會主任委員會主任委員會主任委員會\n\n21\n00:07:08,512 --> 00:07:36,289\n我想主委你幫忙真的要注意這件事喔如果我們所有的一個團隊有一半在過去這樣的一個保險的機制他都不見了我至少現在目前貨車貨運第二個租賃業都面臨到保險公司不是不保是完全不保不是提高保費的問題請金管會協調他只能接應那現在的消息是我們營造公共工程\n\n22\n00:07:37,788 --> 00:07:53,338\n主委您也看到工商時報做了一個統計營造綜合企業近5年保費這些保險工的收入跟賠多少我們看到2023年他的保費的收入46.95億他的賠款率到達100%所以\n\n23\n00:08:02,072 --> 00:08:20,794\n現在也傳出了有部分的像公共工程也好他們很多人就是不太願意產險工會他們業者不太願意去保當然他講主要的理由因為國際債保市場他們也覺得風險在高了我們要去轉嫁這風險原本可以轉嫁\n\n24\n00:08:21,795 --> 00:08:21,955\n委員會主任委員\n\n25\n00:08:47,318 --> 00:08:47,338\n拜訪議員\n\n26\n00:09:06,195 --> 00:09:23,794\n如果這個事情真的確實落實發生在我們公共工程上面也就是說公共工程發生什麼意外災害對於我們自己在界內的勞工朋友他的保險可能不足對於在外面可能影響到的零損\n\n27\n00:09:24,955 --> 00:09:25,355\n委員會主任委員\n\n28\n00:09:52,378 --> 00:09:56,643\n可不可以馬上來做,非常謝謝委員提供這個訊息好,謝謝\n\n","tsv":"start\tend\ttext\n269\t26501\t公共工程各面向的問題尤其是這個上個任期一上任的時候我們淘機T3、R3的問題也聊蠻多的後面也知道也謝謝你因為工程會由你去特別督導尤其這個像T3、R3這個部分你本身也不斷在督促因為當時流標了非常多那剛好\n27361\t41867\t現在談到我們桃園機場的第三航廈第三跑道剛好昨天晚上這個稅休我們桃園機場南跑道的稅休然後造成了造成什麼辦了什麼活動你知道嗎\n42967\t58161\t正送香港來台旅客有飛到日本的感覺了解嗎?一個小時再送他三個小時可是我感覺其實這是一個安全的問題那淘機公司或者民航局那另外一個領域\n59844\t84671\t我們現在談的是T3、R3真的是非常的急迫有這樣的一個需要而不像在疫情的時候感覺沒有什麼客人來沒有什麼航班落地那種感覺那時候陶吉都說我們正好借這個兩三年好好扎實來改善一下這個跑道結果還沒一年當然他定期的稅休那我就想因為這麼急\n86857\t109149\t我們當時淘機三航廈從原計劃經費746億那前幾天我們機場公司跟民航局來說他說目前預估至少漲三成那按照原始計劃這個比例大概會漲到四成多這個情況\n112227\t112407\t委員會主任委員\n127725\t130948\t這一個數字上個禮拜陸委員有跟這個陶基要這個資料那一個楊董事長已經有告訴我這個情形那這個案子確實從開始到現在\n154451\t167143\t我講白話一點今天如果沒有這個疫情恐怕更嚴重我話是這樣講我是很務實的所以我們一直在督促他們應該要趕快加速來進行\n168683\t168863\t主席\n198783\t225613\t其實我真的是覺得疫情過後很多的問題看起來真的營建不管是公共工程或者個人的營造工程它面臨的問題我覺得真的沒有太大的緩解一個大缺工的時代第二個在公共工程大缺錢的時代第三個可能面臨到以後居然有可能面臨到高風險的不管是營造或者運輸業無保險的時代\n227734\t228935\t委員會主任委員會主席委員會主席\n250270\t250570\t吳澤成列席報告\n272518\t272538\t議員吳澤成\n287915\t289116\t公共工程比較少民間工程比較多這個現象就存在\n312276\t330318\t公共工程會比較少的原因是因為他主辦機關他有在統合、整合從設計、建造、施工解決問題、看出問題來做一個處理民間工程從設計、建造到施工\n331769\t351270\t各自為政沒有一個統合所以我們經過檢討之後我們建議內政部應該把這個部分要把它統合起來甚至於連那個鑽探也是獨立的那結果資料的互相之間的連結確認很重要所以這個部分我正在推動這個部分\n352071\t375969\t所以希望透過你這個會議你們專家的一個結論無論如何要提升工程的品質有時候我們做得好民間的企業也會去學所以我覺得互相的學習經驗累積非常重要那我今天要談的最後一個問題其實我覺得真的是危機因為在今年年初我現在已經辦了兩次的協調會第一次是這個兩次都是運輸界就是包括貨車\n377430\t377670\t委員會主席\n395660\t410085\t可是不保不是說那一家的貨運公司他要出去面對可能駕駛是本身路人可能面臨到很多這個情況如果萬一不幸發生重大事故的時候是沒有人可能就擺爛了\n411704\t414685\t委員會主任委員會主任委員會主任委員會主任委員會主任委員會主任委員會主任委員會主任委員會主任委員會主任委員會主任委員會\n428512\t456289\t我想主委你幫忙真的要注意這件事喔如果我們所有的一個團隊有一半在過去這樣的一個保險的機制他都不見了我至少現在目前貨車貨運第二個租賃業都面臨到保險公司不是不保是完全不保不是提高保費的問題請金管會協調他只能接應那現在的消息是我們營造公共工程\n457788\t473338\t主委您也看到工商時報做了一個統計營造綜合企業近5年保費這些保險工的收入跟賠多少我們看到2023年他的保費的收入46.95億他的賠款率到達100%所以\n482072\t500794\t現在也傳出了有部分的像公共工程也好他們很多人就是不太願意產險工會他們業者不太願意去保當然他講主要的理由因為國際債保市場他們也覺得風險在高了我們要去轉嫁這風險原本可以轉嫁\n501795\t501955\t委員會主任委員\n527318\t527338\t拜訪議員\n546195\t563794\t如果這個事情真的確實落實發生在我們公共工程上面也就是說公共工程發生什麼意外災害對於我們自己在界內的勞工朋友他的保險可能不足對於在外面可能影響到的零損\n564955\t565355\t委員會主任委員\n592378\t596643\t可不可以馬上來做,非常謝謝委員提供這個訊息好,謝謝\n","txt":"公共工程各面向的問題尤其是這個上個任期一上任的時候我們淘機T3、R3的問題也聊蠻多的後面也知道也謝謝你因為工程會由你去特別督導尤其這個像T3、R3這個部分你本身也不斷在督促因為當時流標了非常多那剛好\n現在談到我們桃園機場的第三航廈第三跑道剛好昨天晚上這個稅休我們桃園機場南跑道的稅休然後造成了造成什麼辦了什麼活動你知道嗎\n正送香港來台旅客有飛到日本的感覺了解嗎?一個小時再送他三個小時可是我感覺其實這是一個安全的問題那淘機公司或者民航局那另外一個領域\n我們現在談的是T3、R3真的是非常的急迫有這樣的一個需要而不像在疫情的時候感覺沒有什麼客人來沒有什麼航班落地那種感覺那時候陶吉都說我們正好借這個兩三年好好扎實來改善一下這個跑道結果還沒一年當然他定期的稅休那我就想因為這麼急\n我們當時淘機三航廈從原計劃經費746億那前幾天我們機場公司跟民航局來說他說目前預估至少漲三成那按照原始計劃這個比例大概會漲到四成多這個情況\n委員會主任委員\n這一個數字上個禮拜陸委員有跟這個陶基要這個資料那一個楊董事長已經有告訴我這個情形那這個案子確實從開始到現在\n我講白話一點今天如果沒有這個疫情恐怕更嚴重我話是這樣講我是很務實的所以我們一直在督促他們應該要趕快加速來進行\n主席\n其實我真的是覺得疫情過後很多的問題看起來真的營建不管是公共工程或者個人的營造工程它面臨的問題我覺得真的沒有太大的緩解一個大缺工的時代第二個在公共工程大缺錢的時代第三個可能面臨到以後居然有可能面臨到高風險的不管是營造或者運輸業無保險的時代\n委員會主任委員會主席委員會主席\n吳澤成列席報告\n議員吳澤成\n公共工程比較少民間工程比較多這個現象就存在\n公共工程會比較少的原因是因為他主辦機關他有在統合、整合從設計、建造、施工解決問題、看出問題來做一個處理民間工程從設計、建造到施工\n各自為政沒有一個統合所以我們經過檢討之後我們建議內政部應該把這個部分要把它統合起來甚至於連那個鑽探也是獨立的那結果資料的互相之間的連結確認很重要所以這個部分我正在推動這個部分\n所以希望透過你這個會議你們專家的一個結論無論如何要提升工程的品質有時候我們做得好民間的企業也會去學所以我覺得互相的學習經驗累積非常重要那我今天要談的最後一個問題其實我覺得真的是危機因為在今年年初我現在已經辦了兩次的協調會第一次是這個兩次都是運輸界就是包括貨車\n委員會主席\n可是不保不是說那一家的貨運公司他要出去面對可能駕駛是本身路人可能面臨到很多這個情況如果萬一不幸發生重大事故的時候是沒有人可能就擺爛了\n委員會主任委員會主任委員會主任委員會主任委員會主任委員會主任委員會主任委員會主任委員會主任委員會主任委員會主任委員會\n我想主委你幫忙真的要注意這件事喔如果我們所有的一個團隊有一半在過去這樣的一個保險的機制他都不見了我至少現在目前貨車貨運第二個租賃業都面臨到保險公司不是不保是完全不保不是提高保費的問題請金管會協調他只能接應那現在的消息是我們營造公共工程\n主委您也看到工商時報做了一個統計營造綜合企業近5年保費這些保險工的收入跟賠多少我們看到2023年他的保費的收入46.95億他的賠款率到達100%所以\n現在也傳出了有部分的像公共工程也好他們很多人就是不太願意產險工會他們業者不太願意去保當然他講主要的理由因為國際債保市場他們也覺得風險在高了我們要去轉嫁這風險原本可以轉嫁\n委員會主任委員\n拜訪議員\n如果這個事情真的確實落實發生在我們公共工程上面也就是說公共工程發生什麼意外災害對於我們自己在界內的勞工朋友他的保險可能不足對於在外面可能影響到的零損\n委員會主任委員\n可不可以馬上來做,非常謝謝委員提供這個訊息好,謝謝\n","vtt":"WEBVTT\n\n00:00.269 --> 00:26.501\n公共工程各面向的問題尤其是這個上個任期一上任的時候我們淘機T3、R3的問題也聊蠻多的後面也知道也謝謝你因為工程會由你去特別督導尤其這個像T3、R3這個部分你本身也不斷在督促因為當時流標了非常多那剛好\n\n00:27.361 --> 00:41.867\n現在談到我們桃園機場的第三航廈第三跑道剛好昨天晚上這個稅休我們桃園機場南跑道的稅休然後造成了造成什麼辦了什麼活動你知道嗎\n\n00:42.967 --> 00:58.161\n正送香港來台旅客有飛到日本的感覺了解嗎?一個小時再送他三個小時可是我感覺其實這是一個安全的問題那淘機公司或者民航局那另外一個領域\n\n00:59.844 --> 01:24.671\n我們現在談的是T3、R3真的是非常的急迫有這樣的一個需要而不像在疫情的時候感覺沒有什麼客人來沒有什麼航班落地那種感覺那時候陶吉都說我們正好借這個兩三年好好扎實來改善一下這個跑道結果還沒一年當然他定期的稅休那我就想因為這麼急\n\n01:26.857 --> 01:49.149\n我們當時淘機三航廈從原計劃經費746億那前幾天我們機場公司跟民航局來說他說目前預估至少漲三成那按照原始計劃這個比例大概會漲到四成多這個情況\n\n01:52.227 --> 01:52.407\n委員會主任委員\n\n02:07.725 --> 02:10.948\n這一個數字上個禮拜陸委員有跟這個陶基要這個資料那一個楊董事長已經有告訴我這個情形那這個案子確實從開始到現在\n\n02:34.451 --> 02:47.143\n我講白話一點今天如果沒有這個疫情恐怕更嚴重我話是這樣講我是很務實的所以我們一直在督促他們應該要趕快加速來進行\n\n02:48.683 --> 02:48.863\n主席\n\n03:18.783 --> 03:45.613\n其實我真的是覺得疫情過後很多的問題看起來真的營建不管是公共工程或者個人的營造工程它面臨的問題我覺得真的沒有太大的緩解一個大缺工的時代第二個在公共工程大缺錢的時代第三個可能面臨到以後居然有可能面臨到高風險的不管是營造或者運輸業無保險的時代\n\n03:47.734 --> 03:48.935\n委員會主任委員會主席委員會主席\n\n04:10.270 --> 04:10.570\n吳澤成列席報告\n\n04:32.518 --> 04:32.538\n議員吳澤成\n\n04:47.915 --> 04:49.116\n公共工程比較少民間工程比較多這個現象就存在\n\n05:12.276 --> 05:30.318\n公共工程會比較少的原因是因為他主辦機關他有在統合、整合從設計、建造、施工解決問題、看出問題來做一個處理民間工程從設計、建造到施工\n\n05:31.769 --> 05:51.270\n各自為政沒有一個統合所以我們經過檢討之後我們建議內政部應該把這個部分要把它統合起來甚至於連那個鑽探也是獨立的那結果資料的互相之間的連結確認很重要所以這個部分我正在推動這個部分\n\n05:52.071 --> 06:15.969\n所以希望透過你這個會議你們專家的一個結論無論如何要提升工程的品質有時候我們做得好民間的企業也會去學所以我覺得互相的學習經驗累積非常重要那我今天要談的最後一個問題其實我覺得真的是危機因為在今年年初我現在已經辦了兩次的協調會第一次是這個兩次都是運輸界就是包括貨車\n\n06:17.430 --> 06:17.670\n委員會主席\n\n06:35.660 --> 06:50.085\n可是不保不是說那一家的貨運公司他要出去面對可能駕駛是本身路人可能面臨到很多這個情況如果萬一不幸發生重大事故的時候是沒有人可能就擺爛了\n\n06:51.704 --> 06:54.685\n委員會主任委員會主任委員會主任委員會主任委員會主任委員會主任委員會主任委員會主任委員會主任委員會主任委員會主任委員會\n\n07:08.512 --> 07:36.289\n我想主委你幫忙真的要注意這件事喔如果我們所有的一個團隊有一半在過去這樣的一個保險的機制他都不見了我至少現在目前貨車貨運第二個租賃業都面臨到保險公司不是不保是完全不保不是提高保費的問題請金管會協調他只能接應那現在的消息是我們營造公共工程\n\n07:37.788 --> 07:53.338\n主委您也看到工商時報做了一個統計營造綜合企業近5年保費這些保險工的收入跟賠多少我們看到2023年他的保費的收入46.95億他的賠款率到達100%所以\n\n08:02.072 --> 08:20.794\n現在也傳出了有部分的像公共工程也好他們很多人就是不太願意產險工會他們業者不太願意去保當然他講主要的理由因為國際債保市場他們也覺得風險在高了我們要去轉嫁這風險原本可以轉嫁\n\n08:21.795 --> 08:21.955\n委員會主任委員\n\n08:47.318 --> 08:47.338\n拜訪議員\n\n09:06.195 --> 09:23.794\n如果這個事情真的確實落實發生在我們公共工程上面也就是說公共工程發生什麼意外災害對於我們自己在界內的勞工朋友他的保險可能不足對於在外面可能影響到的零損\n\n09:24.955 --> 09:25.355\n委員會主任委員\n\n09:52.378 --> 09:56.643\n可不可以馬上來做,非常謝謝委員提供這個訊息好,謝謝\n\n","segments":[{"start":0.269,"end":26.501,"text":"公共工程各面向的問題尤其是這個上個任期一上任的時候我們淘機T3、R3的問題也聊蠻多的後面也知道也謝謝你因為工程會由你去特別督導尤其這個像T3、R3這個部分你本身也不斷在督促因為當時流標了非常多那剛好"},{"start":27.361,"end":41.867,"text":"現在談到我們桃園機場的第三航廈第三跑道剛好昨天晚上這個稅休我們桃園機場南跑道的稅休然後造成了造成什麼辦了什麼活動你知道嗎"},{"start":42.967,"end":58.161,"text":"正送香港來台旅客有飛到日本的感覺了解嗎?一個小時再送他三個小時可是我感覺其實這是一個安全的問題那淘機公司或者民航局那另外一個領域"},{"start":59.844,"end":84.671,"text":"我們現在談的是T3、R3真的是非常的急迫有這樣的一個需要而不像在疫情的時候感覺沒有什麼客人來沒有什麼航班落地那種感覺那時候陶吉都說我們正好借這個兩三年好好扎實來改善一下這個跑道結果還沒一年當然他定期的稅休那我就想因為這麼急"},{"start":86.857,"end":109.149,"text":"我們當時淘機三航廈從原計劃經費746億那前幾天我們機場公司跟民航局來說他說目前預估至少漲三成那按照原始計劃這個比例大概會漲到四成多這個情況"},{"start":112.227,"end":112.407,"text":"委員會主任委員"},{"start":127.725,"end":130.948,"text":"這一個數字上個禮拜陸委員有跟這個陶基要這個資料那一個楊董事長已經有告訴我這個情形那這個案子確實從開始到現在"},{"start":154.451,"end":167.143,"text":"我講白話一點今天如果沒有這個疫情恐怕更嚴重我話是這樣講我是很務實的所以我們一直在督促他們應該要趕快加速來進行"},{"start":168.683,"end":168.863,"text":"主席"},{"start":198.783,"end":225.613,"text":"其實我真的是覺得疫情過後很多的問題看起來真的營建不管是公共工程或者個人的營造工程它面臨的問題我覺得真的沒有太大的緩解一個大缺工的時代第二個在公共工程大缺錢的時代第三個可能面臨到以後居然有可能面臨到高風險的不管是營造或者運輸業無保險的時代"},{"start":227.734,"end":228.935,"text":"委員會主任委員會主席委員會主席"},{"start":250.27,"end":250.57,"text":"吳澤成列席報告"},{"start":272.518,"end":272.538,"text":"議員吳澤成"},{"start":287.915,"end":289.116,"text":"公共工程比較少民間工程比較多這個現象就存在"},{"start":312.276,"end":330.318,"text":"公共工程會比較少的原因是因為他主辦機關他有在統合、整合從設計、建造、施工解決問題、看出問題來做一個處理民間工程從設計、建造到施工"},{"start":331.769,"end":351.27,"text":"各自為政沒有一個統合所以我們經過檢討之後我們建議內政部應該把這個部分要把它統合起來甚至於連那個鑽探也是獨立的那結果資料的互相之間的連結確認很重要所以這個部分我正在推動這個部分"},{"start":352.071,"end":375.969,"text":"所以希望透過你這個會議你們專家的一個結論無論如何要提升工程的品質有時候我們做得好民間的企業也會去學所以我覺得互相的學習經驗累積非常重要那我今天要談的最後一個問題其實我覺得真的是危機因為在今年年初我現在已經辦了兩次的協調會第一次是這個兩次都是運輸界就是包括貨車"},{"start":377.43,"end":377.67,"text":"委員會主席"},{"start":395.66,"end":410.085,"text":"可是不保不是說那一家的貨運公司他要出去面對可能駕駛是本身路人可能面臨到很多這個情況如果萬一不幸發生重大事故的時候是沒有人可能就擺爛了"},{"start":411.704,"end":414.685,"text":"委員會主任委員會主任委員會主任委員會主任委員會主任委員會主任委員會主任委員會主任委員會主任委員會主任委員會主任委員會"},{"start":428.512,"end":456.289,"text":"我想主委你幫忙真的要注意這件事喔如果我們所有的一個團隊有一半在過去這樣的一個保險的機制他都不見了我至少現在目前貨車貨運第二個租賃業都面臨到保險公司不是不保是完全不保不是提高保費的問題請金管會協調他只能接應那現在的消息是我們營造公共工程"},{"start":457.788,"end":473.338,"text":"主委您也看到工商時報做了一個統計營造綜合企業近5年保費這些保險工的收入跟賠多少我們看到2023年他的保費的收入46.95億他的賠款率到達100%所以"},{"start":482.072,"end":500.794,"text":"現在也傳出了有部分的像公共工程也好他們很多人就是不太願意產險工會他們業者不太願意去保當然他講主要的理由因為國際債保市場他們也覺得風險在高了我們要去轉嫁這風險原本可以轉嫁"},{"start":501.795,"end":501.955,"text":"委員會主任委員"},{"start":527.318,"end":527.338,"text":"拜訪議員"},{"start":546.195,"end":563.794,"text":"如果這個事情真的確實落實發生在我們公共工程上面也就是說公共工程發生什麼意外災害對於我們自己在界內的勞工朋友他的保險可能不足對於在外面可能影響到的零損"},{"start":564.955,"end":565.355,"text":"委員會主任委員"},{"start":592.378,"end":596.643,"text":"可不可以馬上來做,非常謝謝委員提供這個訊息好,謝謝"}]}}}}