{"id":149217,"url":"https://ivod.ly.gov.tw/Play/Clip/1M/149217","video_url":"https://ivod-lyvod.cdn.hinet.net/vod_1/_definst_/mp4:1MClips/ad9f873b941d2ddd047f03b51262f9f7faa0e83a28976539f8ba9b0039caa7a68c09dfcc218e895f5ea18f28b6918d91.mp4/playlist.m3u8","委員名稱":"陳素月","委員發言時間":"10:28:55 - 10:39:03","影片長度":"00:10:08","會議時間":"2024-03-04T09:00:00+08:00","會議名稱":"立法院第11屆第1會期交通委員會第2次全體委員會議（事由：邀請行政院公共工程委員會主任委員吳澤成列席報告業務概況，並備質詢。【3月4日、6日及7日三天一次會】）","meet":{"tmpMeeting":null,"title":"第11屆第1會期交通委員會第2次全體委員會議","term":11,"type":"委員會","sessionPeriod":1,"sessionTimes":2,"committees":[23],"id":"委員會-11-1-23-2"},"date":"2024-03-04","duration":608,"end_time":"2024-03-04T10:39:03+08:00","start_time":"2024-03-04T10:28:55+08:00","features":["ai-transcript","gazette"],"type":"Clip","gazette":{"lineno":484,"blocks":[["陳委員素月：（10時29分）謝謝主席。請主席邀請吳主委。"],["主席：請吳主委。"],["吳主任委員澤成：委員你好。"],["陳委員素月：主委早安！在剛剛主委的業務報告裡面提到推動工程的永續發展是工程會的施政重點，其中推動公共工程的節能減碳，更是首要的一項重點工作，所以這個也是很多委員在關心的。我們看到工程會在2022年8月31號就已經公布了公共工程節能減碳檢核注意事項，因為我們要邁向2050淨零碳排目標，所以現在包括各個部會或者是各個政策面都要開始來進行，我們也希望工程會要以身作則，從公共工程的部分來率先做起。我們也看到整個公共工程年碳排放量可以說是占臺灣整體的碳排放量將近一成，所以如果我們在公共工程的減碳這部分能夠有效益的話，當然對整個減碳，包括在2030年我們要依據溫室氣體減量及管理法要達到20%這部分，應該也會有一些效益跟幫助。可是在邁向這一個政策目標的過程，可能我們還是有很多需要好好地去思考的部分，剛剛欣純委員也談到很多，在這個部分，我們已經預計在今年3月要上線有關電子採購網要新增減碳的欄位，這個部分是指業務單位在工程招標的時候要新增的欄位，對不對？"],["吳主任委員澤成：對。"],["陳委員素月：所以我覺得在這個部分，我們要推動公共工程的節能減碳牽涉的可能有三個部分：一個當然就是發包的業務單位；一個是材料的生產單位；還有一個就是投標的廠商，對不對？這個三角關係可能非常的重要，所以剛剛欣純委員也有關心到，公務人員有沒有辦法去填這個估算減碳的數字，他填的數字是不是合理，是不是會造成廠商來投標的時候有沒有辦法達到這樣子的一個標準，這些都是息息相關的嘛。因為我們現在要讓公共工程能夠揭露碳排的部分，所以未來如果想要投標公共工程的，不管是道路、橋梁或者是建築體，包括停車場等等的這些業者，不只是要比他的規格、價格，還要比他的碳排的量，對不對？如果他碳排的量沒有辦法達到標準，那是不是就沒有辦法得標，對嘛？"],["吳主任委員澤成：目前應該還不會到這個程度啦。"],["陳委員素月：還沒有到這個程度？"],["吳主任委員澤成：目前我們是在一個推行的階段，還沒有到決標與否的這一個程度。"],["陳委員素月：還沒有到決標與否。其實一個政策的推出當然就會引起相關業者的疑慮，他們也會非常密切的關心這個政策的內容以及到底會實施到怎樣的一個程度，所以在這個部分是不是可以請主委再詳細的說明一下？"],["吳主任委員澤成：這個部分我們會就剛剛欣純委員的建議，我們會針對到底機關要怎麼做、廠商要怎麼做，我們要把它做一個很清楚的分工，而且要可行、做得到、馬上來據以推動執行。"],["陳委員素月：對，就是要可行、做得到嘛。我們現在就是邀請業者可以自動來填報減碳的數字，所以在這個部分應該會比較單純一點，就是包括混凝土業者或者是鋼筋業者，他們可以去努力在這個材料上去減碳的這個數字嘛，對不對？"],["吳主任委員澤成：對。"],["陳委員素月：可是在這個部分，工程會有沒有考量到未來會影響到的一些層面，包括成本的提高？"],["吳主任委員澤成：對於加上這樣的要求，我想會不會延伸出來對於成本的提升，這個我們會加以瞭解，如果有的話，那應該從預算面來考量。"],["陳委員素月：對，我想這個都是牽一髮動全身，如果說整個材料，因為我們要求要符合減碳，然後可能就是造成成本的提高，那包括目前大家很關注的房價的問題，因為房子的材料也是會使用到鋼筋、水泥，勢必也會造成房價的上漲，所以在整個政策或者是說以後會影響的層面，我們工程會應該也要好好的去做一個思考……"],["吳主任委員澤成：我們會全盤考量。"],["陳委員素月：是，要做全盤的考量跟評估。"],["吳主任委員澤成：好。"],["陳委員素月：接下來我要關心一下有關公共工程剩餘土石方去化的部分，因為在節能減碳方面，另外一個部分我們就是要鼓勵循環經濟，可以再利用的部分我們就希望能夠回收再利用，所以有關土石方去化這部分，本席也關心很久了，其實也有很多業者會配合政府的政策做去化的處理。去化處理的過程也會牽涉到減碳，像我們水庫的淤泥在清淤之後，很多磚窯業者願意來做去化的部分，可是他們反映一個問題就是說，水庫的淤泥，照目前的規定是要先載運到一個堆置場（土資場）之後，他們再去那邊載運到他們的磚窯廠來處理，可是主委你有沒有想過，在這樣的過程中增加了多少碳排放量？你覺得這個合理嗎？"],["吳主任委員澤成：委員的建議，現在內政部已經要調整、修正，原來對於這些土石方的去處，他用一個轉運來解決一切，那是一個漏洞；對於像剛剛委員提到的磚瓦窯廠可以正式去使用這一些清淤的土石方，反而不讓他進去，這是違背事實的狀況，他們現在已經在修正了。"],["陳委員素月：是。因為我們要減少碳排放量就是要減少貨運運輸的軌跡，對不對？所以我覺得過去在檢討這個部分，一直在談可是一直都沒有一個進度，我們希望在這個部分主委也要來協助解決，然後讓實務的運作能夠更符合我們目前的政策。"],["吳主任委員澤成：好，這個部分我會繼續來追蹤。"],["陳委員素月：好，謝謝。接下來我再關心一下有關公共工程發包的部分，當然公共工程發包如果能夠順利的話，有助於整個公共工程能夠如期如質的完工，也會造福地方，帶動地方的發展，可是我們看到在整個決標的過程當中，若以審計部的標準，就是以第一次招標時就決標的比例來衡量的話，我們也看到彰化縣政府是最低的，所以他的流標率算是蠻高的。以流、廢標兩次而言，這是我們公共工程委員會的標準，就是在流、廢標兩次，進行第三次招標以上這樣的標準來看，彰化縣政府也高達了9.29%，所以在這個部分，我們也希望工程會能夠盡力地去瞭解，然後協助相關的公共工程能夠順利地發包，主委，你是不是可以說明一下？"],["吳主任委員澤成：好，這個部分我們會對流標比較多的這些縣市給予流標個案的輔導。"],["陳委員素月：是，就是說會流標當然應該是有一些原因的，可能就是他在工程設計上或者是相關的條件上有一些問題，所以我也再回到剛剛我們說的碳排的這部分，就是未來你們要求電子採購網要揭露碳排的這個部分，那這個未來會不會是造成流標的原因之一？"],["吳主任委員澤成：一定要避免這樣一個因素的影響，事先防範掉。"],["陳委員素月：對。本席也在這邊提醒我們工程會，就這個部分要好好的去做一個評估，然後加以防範。謝謝。"],["吳主任委員澤成：好。謝謝。"],["主席：陳委員發言完畢，現在請邱若華委員發言。邱委員發言完畢之後，我們休息10分鐘。"]],"agenda":{"page_end":254,"meet_id":"委員會-11-1-23-2","speakers":["李昆澤","林沛祥","黃健豪","廖先翔","徐富癸","林國成","林俊憲","魯明哲","何欣純","陳素月","邱若華","游顥","蔡其昌","許智傑","陳俊宇","邱志偉"],"page_start":211,"meetingDate":["2024-03-04"],"gazette_id":"1130901","agenda_lcidc_ids":["1130901_00004"],"meet_name":"立法院第11屆第1會期交通委員會第2次全體委員會議紀錄","content":"邀請行政院公共工程委員會主任委員吳澤成列席報告業務概況，並備質詢","agenda_id":"1130901_00003"}},"transcript":{"id":"149217","pyannote":{"name":"ronny","tool":"pyannote","data":{"url":"https://ivod.ly.gov.tw/Play/Clip/1M/149217","tool":"pyannote","id":"149217-pyannote"},"job_id":"ljgo0d84AvIzAGfD","queued_at":"2024-06-02 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00:00:52,065\n一項重點工作所以這個也是很多委員在關心的那我們看到工程會在2022年8月31號就已經有公布了公共工程節能減碳減核的注意事項那我們也看到就是說因為我們要邁向2050的這個淨零碳排的這樣子的一個目標所以我們現在就是在包括各個部會或者是各個政策面都要開始來\n\n3\n00:00:53,225 --> 00:00:53,485\n委員會主席\n\n4\n00:01:32,754 --> 00:01:32,834\n﹚陳素月\n\n5\n00:01:48,743 --> 00:02:13,269\n我們已經預計在今年3月就是要上線有關這個電子採購網要新增減碳的這個欄位那這個部分是指我們業務單位在工程招標的時候要新增的欄位對不對對那所以我覺得說在這個部分就是說我們要推動公共工程的節能減碳我想牽涉的部分可能有三個\n\n6\n00:02:14,730 --> 00:02:14,750\n國務人員．\n\n7\n00:02:32,170 --> 00:02:47,710\n他有沒有辦法去填這個估算這個減碳的一個數字那他填的數字是不是合理那是不是會造成廠商他在投標的時候有沒有辦法達到這樣子的一個標準\n\n8\n00:02:49,972 --> 00:03:16,058\n這個都是息息相關的因為我們現在要讓公共工程要揭露這個碳排的一個部分所以未來如果說想要來投標公共工程的包括不管是道路、橋樑或者是這個建築體包括停車場等等的這些業者的話他不只是要比他的規格、價格還要比他的那個減碳排的這個量對不對\n\n9\n00:03:17,998 --> 00:03:38,255\n如果說他的這個碳排的量沒有辦法達到標準那是不是就沒有辦法得標?應該目前還不會到這個程度還沒有到這個程度我們目前是在這一個推行的階段還沒有到這個決標與否的這個程度\n\n10\n00:03:40,265 --> 00:03:40,585\n請主委再詳細的說明一下\n\n11\n00:04:01,271 --> 00:04:20,884\n好這個部分我們會來就剛剛信聰在這個這個建議我們會來針對到底機關要怎麼做、廠商要怎麼做我們要把它做一個很清楚的一個分工而且要可行、做得到馬上來繼續來推動出去\n\n12\n00:04:22,598 --> 00:04:42,652\n對就是可行要做得到那我們現在目前就是邀請業者可以自動來提報就填報這個減碳的一個數字所以在這個部分應該是會比較單純一點就是包括這個混凝土業者或者是鋼筋業者他們可以去努力在這個材料上他們減碳的這個數字對不對\n\n13\n00:04:46,094 --> 00:05:14,595\n對可是這個部分以後就是說在這個部分工程會有沒有也去考量到他未來會影響到的一些層面包括成本的一個提高對於加上這樣的一個要求我想會不會延伸出來對於成本的提升這個我們會來加以來做一個瞭解那麼如果有的話那應該從玉山面要加以來考量\n\n14\n00:05:15,368 --> 00:05:23,874\n對,因為我想這個都是簽一法動全身因為你如果說整個材料因為我們要求要符合就是減碳\n\n15\n00:05:24,701 --> 00:05:24,741\n﹚陳素月\n\n16\n00:05:49,861 --> 00:06:18,661\n我們會全盤考量做全盤考量跟評估是好那接下來我來關心一下就是有關那個公共工程就是有關剩餘土石方的這個去化的一個部分因為在節能減碳方面因為我們也是另外一個部分就是要鼓勵這個循環經濟就是有關可以再利用的部分我們就是希望能夠回收再利用所以有關土石方去化的這個部分\n\n17\n00:06:19,281 --> 00:06:45,096\n本席也關心很久了其實也有很多業者會來配合我們政府的政策做去化的這個處理那在這個去化處理的過程其實也會牽涉到減碳的一個部分像我們水庫的這個淤泥在清淤之後然後很多專業業者他願意來做這個去化的這個部分可是他們反映一個問題就是說這個\n\n18\n00:06:47,077 --> 00:07:05,777\n水庫的淤泥照目前的規定是要先再運到一個堆置場、土質場之後他們再去那邊再去運到他們的鑽窯場來做一個處理可是主委你有沒有想過在這樣子的過程中增加了多少碳排放量?\n\n19\n00:07:07,014 --> 00:07:07,555\n委員吳澤成列席報告業務概況．\n\n20\n00:07:48,659 --> 00:08:05,652\n所以我覺得說在過去在檢討這個部分一直在談可是一直都沒有一個進度那我們也希望就是說在這個部分主委也要來協助來解決然後讓這個實際上實務上能夠更符合我們目前的這樣子的一個政策\n\n21\n00:08:06,092 --> 00:08:28,136\n好這個部分我會繼續來追蹤好謝謝那接下來我再關心一下有關那個公共工程發包的這個部分那我們當然公共工程發包如果能夠順利的話就是有助於整個這個公共工程能夠如期如止的一個完工也是會造福地方帶動地方的一個發展\n\n22\n00:08:28,596 --> 00:08:50,348\n可是我們看到在整個決標的一個過程裡面就是省計部的標準是以第一次招標時就決標的這樣子的一個比例來衡量的話那我們也看到這個彰化縣政府是最低的所以他的留標率是算是蠻高的在留廢標兩次這是我們\n\n23\n00:08:51,028 --> 00:08:51,569\n公共工程委員會\n\n24\n00:09:12,461 --> 00:09:14,203\n主委,是不是可以?\n\n25\n00:09:14,203 --> 00:09:18,289\n這個部分你們會對比較流標多的這些縣市會來給予比較個案的輔導\n\n26\n00:09:23,460 --> 00:09:45,641\n會流標當然應該是會有一些原因的可能就是說他在工程設計上或者是相關的條件上有一些問題所以這個我也再回到剛剛我們的這個碳排的這部分就是未來電子採購網就是你們要求要就是揭露的就是這個碳排的這個部分那這個會不會未來會造成我們\n\n27\n00:09:46,642 --> 00:09:46,882\n主席\n\n","tsv":"start\tend\ttext\n629\t26597\t主委早安在剛剛主委的這個業務報告裡面有提到就是推動工程的永續發展是我們工程會的一個施政重點那在這個部分其中這個推動公共工程的節能減碳更是首要的\n27197\t52065\t一項重點工作所以這個也是很多委員在關心的那我們看到工程會在2022年8月31號就已經有公布了公共工程節能減碳減核的注意事項那我們也看到就是說因為我們要邁向2050的這個淨零碳排的這樣子的一個目標所以我們現在就是在包括各個部會或者是各個政策面都要開始來\n53225\t53485\t委員會主席\n76152\t92654\t﹗\n92754\t92834\t﹚陳素月\n108743\t133269\t我們已經預計在今年3月就是要上線有關這個電子採購網要新增減碳的這個欄位那這個部分是指我們業務單位在工程招標的時候要新增的欄位對不對對那所以我覺得說在這個部分就是說我們要推動公共工程的節能減碳我想牽涉的部分可能有三個\n134730\t134750\t國務人員．\n152170\t167710\t他有沒有辦法去填這個估算這個減碳的一個數字那他填的數字是不是合理那是不是會造成廠商他在投標的時候有沒有辦法達到這樣子的一個標準\n169972\t196058\t這個都是息息相關的因為我們現在要讓公共工程要揭露這個碳排的一個部分所以未來如果說想要來投標公共工程的包括不管是道路、橋樑或者是這個建築體包括停車場等等的這些業者的話他不只是要比他的規格、價格還要比他的那個減碳排的這個量對不對\n197998\t218255\t如果說他的這個碳排的量沒有辦法達到標準那是不是就沒有辦法得標?應該目前還不會到這個程度還沒有到這個程度我們目前是在這一個推行的階段還沒有到這個決標與否的這個程度\n220265\t220585\t請主委再詳細的說明一下\n241271\t260884\t好 這個部分我們會來就剛剛信聰在這個這個建議我們會來針對到底機關要怎麼做、廠商要怎麼做我們要把它做一個很清楚的一個分工而且要可行、做得到馬上來繼續來推動出去\n262598\t282652\t對 就是可行要做得到 那我們現在目前就是邀請業者可以自動來提報就填報這個減碳的一個數字 所以在這個部分應該是會比較單純一點 就是包括這個混凝土業者或者是鋼筋業者他們可以去努力在這個材料上他們減碳的這個數字 對不對\n286094\t314595\t對可是這個部分以後就是說在這個部分工程會有沒有也去考量到他未來會影響到的一些層面包括成本的一個提高對於加上這樣的一個要求我想會不會延伸出來對於成本的提升這個我們會來加以來做一個瞭解那麼如果有的話那應該從玉山面要加以來考量\n315368\t323874\t對,因為我想這個都是簽一法動全身因為你如果說整個材料因為我們要求要符合就是減碳\n324701\t324741\t﹚陳素月\n349861\t378661\t我們會全盤考量做全盤考量跟評估是好那接下來我來關心一下就是有關那個公共工程就是有關剩餘土石方的這個去化的一個部分因為在節能減碳方面因為我們也是另外一個部分就是要鼓勵這個循環經濟就是有關可以再利用的部分我們就是希望能夠回收再利用所以有關土石方去化的這個部分\n379281\t405096\t本席也關心很久了其實也有很多業者會來配合我們政府的政策做去化的這個處理那在這個去化處理的過程其實也會牽涉到減碳的一個部分像我們水庫的這個淤泥在清淤之後然後很多專業業者他願意來做這個去化的這個部分可是他們反映一個問題就是說這個\n407077\t425777\t水庫的淤泥照目前的規定是要先再運到一個堆置場、土質場之後他們再去那邊再去運到他們的鑽窯場來做一個處理可是主委你有沒有想過在這樣子的過程中增加了多少碳排放量?\n427014\t427555\t委員吳澤成列席報告業務概況．\n447892\t468439\t對﹖對﹖\n468659\t485652\t所以我覺得說在過去在檢討這個部分一直在談可是一直都沒有一個進度那我們也希望就是說在這個部分主委也要來協助來解決然後讓這個實際上實務上能夠更符合我們目前的這樣子的一個政策\n486092\t508136\t好這個部分我會繼續來追蹤好謝謝那接下來我再關心一下有關那個公共工程發包的這個部分那我們當然公共工程發包如果能夠順利的話就是有助於整個這個公共工程能夠如期如止的一個完工也是會造福地方帶動地方的一個發展\n508596\t530348\t可是我們看到在整個決標的一個過程裡面就是省計部的標準是以第一次招標時就決標的這樣子的一個比例來衡量的話那我們也看到這個彰化縣政府是最低的所以他的留標率是算是蠻高的在留廢標兩次這是我們\n531028\t531569\t公共工程委員會\n552461\t554203\t主委,是不是可以?\n554203\t558289\t這個部分你們會對比較流標多的這些縣市會來給予比較個案的輔導\n563460\t585641\t會流標當然應該是會有一些原因的可能就是說他在工程設計上或者是相關的條件上有一些問題所以這個我也再回到剛剛我們的這個碳排的這部分就是未來電子採購網就是你們要求要就是揭露的就是這個碳排的這個部分那這個會不會未來會造成我們\n586642\t586882\t主席\n","txt":"主委早安在剛剛主委的這個業務報告裡面有提到就是推動工程的永續發展是我們工程會的一個施政重點那在這個部分其中這個推動公共工程的節能減碳更是首要的\n一項重點工作所以這個也是很多委員在關心的那我們看到工程會在2022年8月31號就已經有公布了公共工程節能減碳減核的注意事項那我們也看到就是說因為我們要邁向2050的這個淨零碳排的這樣子的一個目標所以我們現在就是在包括各個部會或者是各個政策面都要開始來\n委員會主席\n﹗\n﹚陳素月\n我們已經預計在今年3月就是要上線有關這個電子採購網要新增減碳的這個欄位那這個部分是指我們業務單位在工程招標的時候要新增的欄位對不對對那所以我覺得說在這個部分就是說我們要推動公共工程的節能減碳我想牽涉的部分可能有三個\n國務人員．\n他有沒有辦法去填這個估算這個減碳的一個數字那他填的數字是不是合理那是不是會造成廠商他在投標的時候有沒有辦法達到這樣子的一個標準\n這個都是息息相關的因為我們現在要讓公共工程要揭露這個碳排的一個部分所以未來如果說想要來投標公共工程的包括不管是道路、橋樑或者是這個建築體包括停車場等等的這些業者的話他不只是要比他的規格、價格還要比他的那個減碳排的這個量對不對\n如果說他的這個碳排的量沒有辦法達到標準那是不是就沒有辦法得標?應該目前還不會到這個程度還沒有到這個程度我們目前是在這一個推行的階段還沒有到這個決標與否的這個程度\n請主委再詳細的說明一下\n好 這個部分我們會來就剛剛信聰在這個這個建議我們會來針對到底機關要怎麼做、廠商要怎麼做我們要把它做一個很清楚的一個分工而且要可行、做得到馬上來繼續來推動出去\n對 就是可行要做得到 那我們現在目前就是邀請業者可以自動來提報就填報這個減碳的一個數字 所以在這個部分應該是會比較單純一點 就是包括這個混凝土業者或者是鋼筋業者他們可以去努力在這個材料上他們減碳的這個數字 對不對\n對可是這個部分以後就是說在這個部分工程會有沒有也去考量到他未來會影響到的一些層面包括成本的一個提高對於加上這樣的一個要求我想會不會延伸出來對於成本的提升這個我們會來加以來做一個瞭解那麼如果有的話那應該從玉山面要加以來考量\n對,因為我想這個都是簽一法動全身因為你如果說整個材料因為我們要求要符合就是減碳\n﹚陳素月\n我們會全盤考量做全盤考量跟評估是好那接下來我來關心一下就是有關那個公共工程就是有關剩餘土石方的這個去化的一個部分因為在節能減碳方面因為我們也是另外一個部分就是要鼓勵這個循環經濟就是有關可以再利用的部分我們就是希望能夠回收再利用所以有關土石方去化的這個部分\n本席也關心很久了其實也有很多業者會來配合我們政府的政策做去化的這個處理那在這個去化處理的過程其實也會牽涉到減碳的一個部分像我們水庫的這個淤泥在清淤之後然後很多專業業者他願意來做這個去化的這個部分可是他們反映一個問題就是說這個\n水庫的淤泥照目前的規定是要先再運到一個堆置場、土質場之後他們再去那邊再去運到他們的鑽窯場來做一個處理可是主委你有沒有想過在這樣子的過程中增加了多少碳排放量?\n委員吳澤成列席報告業務概況．\n對﹖對﹖\n所以我覺得說在過去在檢討這個部分一直在談可是一直都沒有一個進度那我們也希望就是說在這個部分主委也要來協助來解決然後讓這個實際上實務上能夠更符合我們目前的這樣子的一個政策\n好這個部分我會繼續來追蹤好謝謝那接下來我再關心一下有關那個公共工程發包的這個部分那我們當然公共工程發包如果能夠順利的話就是有助於整個這個公共工程能夠如期如止的一個完工也是會造福地方帶動地方的一個發展\n可是我們看到在整個決標的一個過程裡面就是省計部的標準是以第一次招標時就決標的這樣子的一個比例來衡量的話那我們也看到這個彰化縣政府是最低的所以他的留標率是算是蠻高的在留廢標兩次這是我們\n公共工程委員會\n主委,是不是可以?\n這個部分你們會對比較流標多的這些縣市會來給予比較個案的輔導\n會流標當然應該是會有一些原因的可能就是說他在工程設計上或者是相關的條件上有一些問題所以這個我也再回到剛剛我們的這個碳排的這部分就是未來電子採購網就是你們要求要就是揭露的就是這個碳排的這個部分那這個會不會未來會造成我們\n主席\n","vtt":"WEBVTT\n\n00:00.629 --> 00:26.597\n主委早安在剛剛主委的這個業務報告裡面有提到就是推動工程的永續發展是我們工程會的一個施政重點那在這個部分其中這個推動公共工程的節能減碳更是首要的\n\n00:27.197 --> 00:52.065\n一項重點工作所以這個也是很多委員在關心的那我們看到工程會在2022年8月31號就已經有公布了公共工程節能減碳減核的注意事項那我們也看到就是說因為我們要邁向2050的這個淨零碳排的這樣子的一個目標所以我們現在就是在包括各個部會或者是各個政策面都要開始來\n\n00:53.225 --> 00:53.485\n委員會主席\n\n01:32.754 --> 01:32.834\n﹚陳素月\n\n01:48.743 --> 02:13.269\n我們已經預計在今年3月就是要上線有關這個電子採購網要新增減碳的這個欄位那這個部分是指我們業務單位在工程招標的時候要新增的欄位對不對對那所以我覺得說在這個部分就是說我們要推動公共工程的節能減碳我想牽涉的部分可能有三個\n\n02:14.730 --> 02:14.750\n國務人員．\n\n02:32.170 --> 02:47.710\n他有沒有辦法去填這個估算這個減碳的一個數字那他填的數字是不是合理那是不是會造成廠商他在投標的時候有沒有辦法達到這樣子的一個標準\n\n02:49.972 --> 03:16.058\n這個都是息息相關的因為我們現在要讓公共工程要揭露這個碳排的一個部分所以未來如果說想要來投標公共工程的包括不管是道路、橋樑或者是這個建築體包括停車場等等的這些業者的話他不只是要比他的規格、價格還要比他的那個減碳排的這個量對不對\n\n03:17.998 --> 03:38.255\n如果說他的這個碳排的量沒有辦法達到標準那是不是就沒有辦法得標?應該目前還不會到這個程度還沒有到這個程度我們目前是在這一個推行的階段還沒有到這個決標與否的這個程度\n\n03:40.265 --> 03:40.585\n請主委再詳細的說明一下\n\n04:01.271 --> 04:20.884\n好這個部分我們會來就剛剛信聰在這個這個建議我們會來針對到底機關要怎麼做、廠商要怎麼做我們要把它做一個很清楚的一個分工而且要可行、做得到馬上來繼續來推動出去\n\n04:22.598 --> 04:42.652\n對就是可行要做得到那我們現在目前就是邀請業者可以自動來提報就填報這個減碳的一個數字所以在這個部分應該是會比較單純一點就是包括這個混凝土業者或者是鋼筋業者他們可以去努力在這個材料上他們減碳的這個數字對不對\n\n04:46.094 --> 05:14.595\n對可是這個部分以後就是說在這個部分工程會有沒有也去考量到他未來會影響到的一些層面包括成本的一個提高對於加上這樣的一個要求我想會不會延伸出來對於成本的提升這個我們會來加以來做一個瞭解那麼如果有的話那應該從玉山面要加以來考量\n\n05:15.368 --> 05:23.874\n對,因為我想這個都是簽一法動全身因為你如果說整個材料因為我們要求要符合就是減碳\n\n05:24.701 --> 05:24.741\n﹚陳素月\n\n05:49.861 --> 06:18.661\n我們會全盤考量做全盤考量跟評估是好那接下來我來關心一下就是有關那個公共工程就是有關剩餘土石方的這個去化的一個部分因為在節能減碳方面因為我們也是另外一個部分就是要鼓勵這個循環經濟就是有關可以再利用的部分我們就是希望能夠回收再利用所以有關土石方去化的這個部分\n\n06:19.281 --> 06:45.096\n本席也關心很久了其實也有很多業者會來配合我們政府的政策做去化的這個處理那在這個去化處理的過程其實也會牽涉到減碳的一個部分像我們水庫的這個淤泥在清淤之後然後很多專業業者他願意來做這個去化的這個部分可是他們反映一個問題就是說這個\n\n06:47.077 --> 07:05.777\n水庫的淤泥照目前的規定是要先再運到一個堆置場、土質場之後他們再去那邊再去運到他們的鑽窯場來做一個處理可是主委你有沒有想過在這樣子的過程中增加了多少碳排放量?\n\n07:07.014 --> 07:07.555\n委員吳澤成列席報告業務概況．\n\n07:48.659 --> 08:05.652\n所以我覺得說在過去在檢討這個部分一直在談可是一直都沒有一個進度那我們也希望就是說在這個部分主委也要來協助來解決然後讓這個實際上實務上能夠更符合我們目前的這樣子的一個政策\n\n08:06.092 --> 08:28.136\n好這個部分我會繼續來追蹤好謝謝那接下來我再關心一下有關那個公共工程發包的這個部分那我們當然公共工程發包如果能夠順利的話就是有助於整個這個公共工程能夠如期如止的一個完工也是會造福地方帶動地方的一個發展\n\n08:28.596 --> 08:50.348\n可是我們看到在整個決標的一個過程裡面就是省計部的標準是以第一次招標時就決標的這樣子的一個比例來衡量的話那我們也看到這個彰化縣政府是最低的所以他的留標率是算是蠻高的在留廢標兩次這是我們\n\n08:51.028 --> 08:51.569\n公共工程委員會\n\n09:12.461 --> 09:14.203\n主委,是不是可以?\n\n09:14.203 --> 09:18.289\n這個部分你們會對比較流標多的這些縣市會來給予比較個案的輔導\n\n09:23.460 --> 09:45.641\n會流標當然應該是會有一些原因的可能就是說他在工程設計上或者是相關的條件上有一些問題所以這個我也再回到剛剛我們的這個碳排的這部分就是未來電子採購網就是你們要求要就是揭露的就是這個碳排的這個部分那這個會不會未來會造成我們\n\n09:46.642 --> 09:46.882\n主席\n\n","segments":[{"start":0.629,"end":26.597,"text":"主委早安在剛剛主委的這個業務報告裡面有提到就是推動工程的永續發展是我們工程會的一個施政重點那在這個部分其中這個推動公共工程的節能減碳更是首要的"},{"start":27.197,"end":52.065,"text":"一項重點工作所以這個也是很多委員在關心的那我們看到工程會在2022年8月31號就已經有公布了公共工程節能減碳減核的注意事項那我們也看到就是說因為我們要邁向2050的這個淨零碳排的這樣子的一個目標所以我們現在就是在包括各個部會或者是各個政策面都要開始來"},{"start":53.225,"end":53.485,"text":"委員會主席"},{"start":76.152,"end":92.654,"text":"﹗"},{"start":92.754,"end":92.834,"text":"﹚陳素月"},{"start":108.743,"end":133.269,"text":"我們已經預計在今年3月就是要上線有關這個電子採購網要新增減碳的這個欄位那這個部分是指我們業務單位在工程招標的時候要新增的欄位對不對對那所以我覺得說在這個部分就是說我們要推動公共工程的節能減碳我想牽涉的部分可能有三個"},{"start":134.73,"end":134.75,"text":"國務人員．"},{"start":152.17,"end":167.71,"text":"他有沒有辦法去填這個估算這個減碳的一個數字那他填的數字是不是合理那是不是會造成廠商他在投標的時候有沒有辦法達到這樣子的一個標準"},{"start":169.972,"end":196.058,"text":"這個都是息息相關的因為我們現在要讓公共工程要揭露這個碳排的一個部分所以未來如果說想要來投標公共工程的包括不管是道路、橋樑或者是這個建築體包括停車場等等的這些業者的話他不只是要比他的規格、價格還要比他的那個減碳排的這個量對不對"},{"start":197.998,"end":218.255,"text":"如果說他的這個碳排的量沒有辦法達到標準那是不是就沒有辦法得標?應該目前還不會到這個程度還沒有到這個程度我們目前是在這一個推行的階段還沒有到這個決標與否的這個程度"},{"start":220.265,"end":220.585,"text":"請主委再詳細的說明一下"},{"start":241.271,"end":260.884,"text":"好 這個部分我們會來就剛剛信聰在這個這個建議我們會來針對到底機關要怎麼做、廠商要怎麼做我們要把它做一個很清楚的一個分工而且要可行、做得到馬上來繼續來推動出去"},{"start":262.598,"end":282.652,"text":"對 就是可行要做得到 那我們現在目前就是邀請業者可以自動來提報就填報這個減碳的一個數字 所以在這個部分應該是會比較單純一點 就是包括這個混凝土業者或者是鋼筋業者他們可以去努力在這個材料上他們減碳的這個數字 對不對"},{"start":286.094,"end":314.595,"text":"對可是這個部分以後就是說在這個部分工程會有沒有也去考量到他未來會影響到的一些層面包括成本的一個提高對於加上這樣的一個要求我想會不會延伸出來對於成本的提升這個我們會來加以來做一個瞭解那麼如果有的話那應該從玉山面要加以來考量"},{"start":315.368,"end":323.874,"text":"對,因為我想這個都是簽一法動全身因為你如果說整個材料因為我們要求要符合就是減碳"},{"start":324.701,"end":324.741,"text":"﹚陳素月"},{"start":349.861,"end":378.661,"text":"我們會全盤考量做全盤考量跟評估是好那接下來我來關心一下就是有關那個公共工程就是有關剩餘土石方的這個去化的一個部分因為在節能減碳方面因為我們也是另外一個部分就是要鼓勵這個循環經濟就是有關可以再利用的部分我們就是希望能夠回收再利用所以有關土石方去化的這個部分"},{"start":379.281,"end":405.096,"text":"本席也關心很久了其實也有很多業者會來配合我們政府的政策做去化的這個處理那在這個去化處理的過程其實也會牽涉到減碳的一個部分像我們水庫的這個淤泥在清淤之後然後很多專業業者他願意來做這個去化的這個部分可是他們反映一個問題就是說這個"},{"start":407.077,"end":425.777,"text":"水庫的淤泥照目前的規定是要先再運到一個堆置場、土質場之後他們再去那邊再去運到他們的鑽窯場來做一個處理可是主委你有沒有想過在這樣子的過程中增加了多少碳排放量?"},{"start":427.014,"end":427.555,"text":"委員吳澤成列席報告業務概況．"},{"start":447.892,"end":468.439,"text":"對﹖對﹖"},{"start":468.659,"end":485.652,"text":"所以我覺得說在過去在檢討這個部分一直在談可是一直都沒有一個進度那我們也希望就是說在這個部分主委也要來協助來解決然後讓這個實際上實務上能夠更符合我們目前的這樣子的一個政策"},{"start":486.092,"end":508.136,"text":"好這個部分我會繼續來追蹤好謝謝那接下來我再關心一下有關那個公共工程發包的這個部分那我們當然公共工程發包如果能夠順利的話就是有助於整個這個公共工程能夠如期如止的一個完工也是會造福地方帶動地方的一個發展"},{"start":508.596,"end":530.348,"text":"可是我們看到在整個決標的一個過程裡面就是省計部的標準是以第一次招標時就決標的這樣子的一個比例來衡量的話那我們也看到這個彰化縣政府是最低的所以他的留標率是算是蠻高的在留廢標兩次這是我們"},{"start":531.028,"end":531.569,"text":"公共工程委員會"},{"start":552.461,"end":554.203,"text":"主委,是不是可以?"},{"start":554.203,"end":558.289,"text":"這個部分你們會對比較流標多的這些縣市會來給予比較個案的輔導"},{"start":563.46,"end":585.641,"text":"會流標當然應該是會有一些原因的可能就是說他在工程設計上或者是相關的條件上有一些問題所以這個我也再回到剛剛我們的這個碳排的這部分就是未來電子採購網就是你們要求要就是揭露的就是這個碳排的這個部分那這個會不會未來會造成我們"},{"start":586.642,"end":586.882,"text":"主席"}]}}}}