{"id":149231,"url":"https://ivod.ly.gov.tw/Play/Clip/1M/149231","video_url":"https://ivod-lyvod.cdn.hinet.net/vod_1/_definst_/mp4:1MClips/ad9f873b941d2ddddd6c770451d89d03e0c93a942a018238f8ba9b0039caa7a6c78b9b4fb5f8c3b35ea18f28b6918d91.mp4/playlist.m3u8","委員名稱":"伍麗華Saidhai Tahovecahe","委員發言時間":"10:46:06 - 10:56:46","影片長度":"00:10:40","會議時間":"2024-03-04T09:00:00+08:00","會議名稱":"立法院第11屆第1會期財政委員會第2次全體委員會議（事由：邀請金融監督管理委員會黃主任委員天牧率所屬機關首長暨中央存款保險股份有限公司、監管相關機構有關之財團法人、臺灣證券交易所股份有限公司、臺灣期貨交易所股份有限公司、臺灣集中保管結算所股份有限公司等董事長、總經理列席業務報告，並備質詢。\n【3月4日及7日二天一次會】）","meet":{"tmpMeeting":null,"title":"第11屆第1會期財政委員會第2次全體委員會議","term":11,"type":"委員會","sessionPeriod":1,"sessionTimes":2,"committees":[20],"id":"委員會-11-1-20-2"},"date":"2024-03-04","duration":640,"end_time":"2024-03-04T10:56:46+08:00","start_time":"2024-03-04T10:46:06+08:00","features":["ai-transcript","gazette"],"type":"Clip","gazette":{"lineno":480,"blocks":[["伍麗華Saidhai Tahovecahe委員：（10時46分）謝謝主席，有請黃主委。"],["主席：有請黃主委。"],["黃主任委員天牧：委員好。"],["伍麗華Saidhai Tahovecahe委員：主委，您好。我看到今天金管會業務報告中有一個主題叫做「推動永續金融發展」，據我所知，一開始推動綠色金融行動方案是針對綠能產業的投融資，2.0版進一步擴展到永續金融這樣的概念，目前最新的應該是3.0版，我看到的是有公告「永續經濟活動認定參考指引」、辦理「永續金融評鑑」、要求上市櫃公司定期發布永續報告書等等。我們當然知道「永續」的概念在這個3.0版當中其實是要避免「漂綠」，就是宣稱它有一些對永續環境的做法，但可能實際上沒有。我比較想瞭解並請教主委的是，這個永續的概念有沒有包含原住民族的金融？"],["黃主任委員天牧：報告委員，這3個階段基本上都是以機構為主，就是金融機構和上市櫃公司，原住民部分在普惠方面是有涵蓋；以上大概跟您報告。"],["伍麗華Saidhai Tahovecahe委員：好。其實我會這樣問是因為我瞭解其他國家有在關注原住民的金融服務，以澳洲來看，他們有一個「澳洲可持續金融倡議」，第一是它要求建立原住民金融服務辦公室，其次是它也有去關注原民金融架構設計與服務的包容性，又或者是鼓勵金融機構讓原民更易獲得銀行服務和退休金服務，再者，他們也會強化對原住民有益且適當的保險產品，更重要的是，他們對於一些投資者所做的盡職調查，也會去看有沒有尊重原住民的權利。","另外是像紐西蘭這個國家，他們有Māori Business（永續金融中心），因為毛利的土地結構和我們臺灣其實是很類似的，他們也有一些土地的限制，很難用土地做為擔保品，所以這個永續金融中心就是辦理計畫與銀行合作，去支持一些針對毛利土地貸款的解決方案。舉個例子，他們也會針對一些想要蓋房子的去做一個專案計畫，幫助他們辦理貸款建造房屋。","加拿大的做法則是有一個永續金融行動委員會，重視的是加強原住民族在永續金融的參與，他們在「綠色與轉型金融分類路徑圖」當中有一個「不造成重大損害」的評估，就有包含「尊重原住民權利與和解」的部分。","所以我想要請教一下主委，您有沒有一些看法、想法？因為在您初次來本席辦公室拜訪的時候，我有跟您提到我很關心未來原住民土地在金融服務中的角色，我覺得您非常友善也很有想法，我是在想說是否有讓原住民族參與、強化或支持族人金融安全，也避免所謂的「漂綠」在授信進行盡職調查的時候，是不是會去一併考量、要求要有原住民的知情同意權？我想先聽聽看主委的想法。"],["黃主任委員天牧：謝謝委員帶來更廣泛的社會價值讓我們學習，非常感謝。如果從上市櫃公司來講，我們現在的永續報告書是依照荷蘭GRI（Global Reporting Initiative）去編製的，這裡面是訂有原住民相關規範的幾個原則來揭露，包括不歧視原住民、有無違反原住民人權、對原住民員工的照顧，如果上市櫃公司有做這些事或是做了這些事有影響，都應該在永續報告書揭露。"],["伍麗華Saidhai Tahovecahe委員：所以目前已經有這樣規劃了嗎？"],["黃主任委員天牧：有這樣子的規範，而且不只如此，因為我們要求金融機構做投融資的時候要議合，如果後面的那個投資對象有牽涉到原住民，這當然也應該是在議合的範圍之內，所以原則上應該是有，我們會強化落實。"],["伍麗華Saidhai Tahovecahe委員：好，那如果有的話，因為我自己看我是看不到，我看了綠色金融行動方案3.0，又或者是永續經濟活動的認定方法，我目前是看不到，但是主委說有嘛！所以我是在想說，是不是可以請金管會連同原民會，能夠就永續金融架構中，剛才您說有，那我是在想說如果有的話，又或者沒有，是不是要去做一些修改？是不是3個月內可以讓我看到書面報告？"],["黃主任委員天牧：好。委員跟您報告，因為我們也瞭解，國內現在的原民會統籌原住民各類型的經濟活動、相關的活動，這個事情可以不可以麻煩委員你也跟原住民委員會提一下，我們會跟他去諮詢溝通？其實在微型保險方面，金管會跟原住民委員會都有很好的合作。"],["伍麗華Saidhai Tahovecahe委員：對，沒有關係，我是希望說能夠在金管會的架構底下，畢竟原民會並不是所謂的金融專業單位。"],["黃主任委員天牧：我想委員的期許跟指示，我們會跟原民會溝通，看看我們的綠色金融現在這個方案中，有沒有可以增加一些關注原住民的的政策，這樣是不是可以？"],["伍麗華Saidhai Tahovecahe委員：好。"],["黃主任委員天牧：我們3個月之內給您。"],["伍麗華Saidhai Tahovecahe委員：好，我就是希望可以看到這些，好不好？"],["黃主任委員天牧：好，謝謝委員。"],["伍麗華Saidhai Tahovecahe委員：因為我們也很羨慕國外的作法。"],["黃主任委員天牧：是。"],["伍麗華Saidhai Tahovecahe委員：那我們也是很進步的國家，我希望我們也能夠有這些好的服務。主委，我講這一些還是要回歸到一件事情，因為這件事情其實困擾原住民幾10年，也讓原住民窮的只剩下土地，原住民是在自己的土地當故宮，就是這樣的窘境、困境。我們跟很多有原住民的國家一樣，原住民保留地有所謂土地的一些限制問題，但是我們的原保地很大喔！像私有的話，大概有13萬公頃，公有的原保地也有13萬公頃。可是我要跟主委講，這一些土地早就已經流失大半，雖然原住民的保留地只能限制給原住民，不能流入非原住民，但是道高一尺魔高一丈，這些年透過各種方法，包括設定抵押、借名登記等等，乃至於現在因為這幾年有禁伐補償金，所以很多人都把它視為很搶手的拍定物，甚至有很多人就是透過原住民，自己用現金去直接收購很多很多的原保地，那我們也不知道會留做什麼用途，所以在這個地方我很希望能夠趕快遏止這樣的現象。","我們來看一下一般的林地，我們可以看到它在市場鑑價其實可以貸到很多，就是以市場鑑價，即便是打八折都有400萬，但是原保地是被拒絕的，而且是用公告現值去算，所以它的價值，同樣的一公頃可能只有160萬，可是我們現在就是想說這樣的求貸無門，就會落入另外一個財務陷阱，因為我們到Google打「原保地貸款」，其實啪啦啪啦啪啦一堆，但是他們都是私人當舖，而且你可以看到它的月利率，以年利率來看幾乎就是高利貸。但是我接過很多的陳情案，他明明只有借1萬元，可能2年後他要還30幾萬，為什麼？因為他根本對利率一點概念都沒有，他可能拿到的是日利率，所以我想這個月利13%已經是高利貸很可怕了。針對這樣的惡性循環，主委剛剛有提到，可不可以去協調這些銀行公會，禁止金融機構拒絕以原保地擔保，能夠有禁止歧視條款。另外您也有提過增加銀行的誘因，能不能夠在ESG永續金融的評鑑給予加分，又或者是參考紐西蘭的作法，建立原保地的鑑價系統，能夠跟特定的銀行合作，給予我們一些專案的金融服務。這個部分是我很在意的，希望主委是不是有可能討論一些對策，能夠一併也在2個月或3個月內給予回覆？"],["黃主任委員天牧：是，其實這個案子去年10月財政部有討論過了，當然主要還是因為移轉的限制，不過我們會遵循委員的意見跨部會研究，包括跟銀行公會去研究，就照您的意思2個月之後跟您回覆。"],["伍麗華Saidhai Tahovecahe委員：好，非常謝謝主委。"],["黃主任委員天牧：但是這個研究可行性，我們儘量朝您期待的方向去努力。"],["伍麗華Saidhai Tahovecahe委員：好，謝謝主委給予這樣友善跟肯定支持的答復，感謝您。"],["黃主任委員天牧：謝謝委員，謝謝。"],["伍麗華Saidhai Tahovecahe委員：謝謝主委、謝謝主席。"],["主席：感謝伍麗華委員的質詢。","接著我們請顏寬恒委員質詢。"]],"agenda":{"page_end":322,"meet_id":"委員會-11-1-20-2","speakers":["郭國文","吳秉叡","林德福","賴士葆","賴惠員","王鴻薇","陳玉珍","伍麗華Saidhai‧Tahovecahe","顏寬恒","黃珊珊","李坤城","王世堅","李彥秀","謝衣鳯","葛如鈞","邱志偉","黃國昌","林楚茵","羅明才","楊瓊瓔"],"page_start":269,"meetingDate":["2024-03-04"],"gazette_id":"1130701","agenda_lcidc_ids":["1130701_00006"],"meet_name":"立法院第11屆第1會期財政委員會第2次全體委員會議紀錄","content":"邀請金融監督管理委員會黃主任委員天牧率所屬機關首長暨中央存款保險股份有限公司、監管相\n關機構有關之財團法人、臺灣證券交易所股份有限公司、臺灣期貨交易所股份有限公司、臺灣集\n中保管結算所股份有限公司等董事長、總經理列席業務報告，並備質詢","agenda_id":"1130701_00005"}},"transcript":{"id":"149231","pyannote":{"name":"ronny","tool":"pyannote","data":{"url":"https://ivod.ly.gov.tw/Play/Clip/1M/149231","tool":"pyannote","id":"149231-pyannote"},"job_id":"kENtEWjWW6RrfkmI","queued_at":"2024-06-02 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{\"word\": \"請\"}, {\"word\": \"嚴\"}, {\"word\": \"匡\"}, {\"word\": \"衡\", \"start\": 627.767, \"end\": 627.867, \"score\": 0.796}, {\"word\": \"委\", \"start\": 627.867, \"end\": 627.888, \"score\": 0.0}, {\"word\": \"員\"}, {\"word\": \"質\"}, {\"word\": \"詢\"}, {\"word\": \"。\"}], \"language\": \"zh\"}","srt":"1\n00:00:01,051 --> 00:00:02,133\n有請黃主委有請黃主委\n\n2\n00:00:10,263 --> 00:00:38,144\n主委您好我看到今天金管會的業務報告中有一個主題叫做推動永續金融發展那據我所知一開始的時候推動這個綠色金融行動方案是針對這些綠能產業的投融資那2.0版的時候進一步擴展到永續金融這樣的一個概念\n\n3\n00:00:39,085 --> 00:01:02,734\n那目前最新的話應該是說是一個3.0版那我看到的是有公告永續經濟活動認定參考的指引那辦理永續金融評鑑或者是要求上市櫃公司定期發布永續報告等等那這個部分我們當然知道這個永續的概念\n\n4\n00:01:04,019 --> 00:01:22,835\n是在這個3.0榜當中其實是避免一些票率啦就是宣稱他有對一些對永續環境的這樣的一個做法但是可能實際上沒有但是我比較想了解請教主委的是這個永續的概念有沒有包含原住民族的金融\n\n5\n00:01:24,487 --> 00:01:52,890\n我們現在這三個階段基本上都是以機構為主就是金融機構跟上市會公司那原住民部分在普惠方面是有涵蓋是帶給您報告其實我會這樣問是因為我了解其他國家他們其實有在關注原住民的金融服務以澳洲來看那澳洲有一個澳洲可持續金融倡議第一個他有要求\n\n6\n00:01:53,751 --> 00:02:00,801\n建立原住民的金融服務辦公室關注原住民金融架構設計與服務包容性鼓勵金融機構讓原住民獲得\n\n7\n00:02:10,235 --> 00:02:29,983\n銀行的服務跟退休金的服務那另外呢他們也會強化對原住民有益而且適當的保險產品那更重要的是呢他們對於一些投資者所做的淨值調查他們也會去看有沒有尊重原住民的權利那另外像紐西蘭這個國家\n\n8\n00:02:31,243 --> 00:02:48,248\n貓利Business永續金融中心因為貓利的土地結構跟我們臺灣其實是很類似的那它也有一些土地的限制所以他們也是很難用土地作為擔保品所以呢這個Business它就是辦理計畫\n\n9\n00:02:50,068 --> 00:03:11,482\n與銀行合作去支持一些針對毛利土地貸款的解決方案那舉個例子他們也會針對一些想要蓋房子的去做一個專案計畫幫助他們去做辦理貸款建造房屋又或者呢我們看到加拿大那加拿大的做法是他們有一個永續金融行動的委員會\n\n10\n00:03:12,483 --> 00:03:35,508\n他們重視的是加強原住民在永續金融的一個參與那他們有一個叫綠色與轉型金融分類路徑圖當中有一個叫不造成重大損害的評估他就有去包含尊重原住民權利跟和解這個部分所以我想要請教一下主委那您有沒有一些看法想法因為\n\n11\n00:03:36,108 --> 00:03:58,324\n在您初次來辦公室拜訪的時候我有跟您提到我很關心未來原住民土地在我們金融服務的一個角色那我覺得您是非常友善也很有想法那我是在想說是否有讓原住民族參與強化或支持族人金融安全那也避免這個所謂的票率\n\n12\n00:03:58,664 --> 00:04:19,209\n在受信的進行進職調查的時候是不是會去一併考量要求要有原住民的知情同意權我想先聽聽看主委您的想法我想謝謝委員您帶來更廣泛的社會價值讓我們學習非常感謝那您提到的如果從上數位公司來講\n\n13\n00:04:20,149 --> 00:04:45,872\n我們現在的永續報告書是依照荷蘭GRI去編制的那它這裡面是有定有原住民相關規範有幾個原則來揭露包括不歧視原住民那永無違反原住民人權對原住民員工的照顧那這些如果上市會公司有做這些事或是做了這些事有影響他都應該在永續報告書說去揭露\n\n14\n00:04:46,337 --> 00:05:10,993\n所以目前已經有這樣規劃了嗎?有這樣子的規範只是而且不只如此因為我們要求金融機構做投融資的時候要跟要做議核那如果後面的那個投資的對象他有牽涉到原住民這當然也應該是在這個裡面議核的範圍之內所以原則上應該是有那我們會強化落實好那如果有的話因為我自己看我是看不到\n\n15\n00:05:11,733 --> 00:05:39,348\n我看了綠色金融行動方案3.0又或者是永續經濟活動的認定方法我目前是看不到但是主委您說有嘛所以我是在想說是不是可以請金管會聯同園民會這邊能夠就永續金融架構中剛才您說有那我是在想說如果有的話又或者沒有那是不是要去做一些修改那是不是三個月內可以讓我可以看到一個書面報告\n\n16\n00:05:40,865 --> 00:06:02,285\n好,委員沒聽報告,因為我們也了解國內現在的園民會其實他統籌原住民各類型的經濟活動相關的活動,那這個事情如果你可不可以麻煩委員你也跟原住民委員會提一下,我們會跟他去諮詢溝通,其實在維新保險方面,金管會跟原住民委員會都有很好的合作,\n\n17\n00:06:02,805 --> 00:06:28,557\n對沒有關係我是希望說能夠在金管會的架構底下因為畢竟園民會他其實並不是所謂的金融專業單位好我想委員您的期許跟指示我們會跟園民會溝通看看我們的綠色金融現在這個方案中有沒有可以增加一些關注原住民的政策是不是這樣可以我們三個月之內給您完成我就是希望可以看到這些好不好\n\n18\n00:06:29,237 --> 00:06:54,059\n因為我們也很羨慕國外的做法我們也是很進步的國家希望我們也能夠有這些好的服務主委其實我講這些還是要回歸到一件事情因為這件事情其實困擾原住民幾十年也讓原住民窮的只剩下土地原住民是在自己的土地當故宮\n\n19\n00:06:55,160 --> 00:07:20,396\n就是一個這樣的窘境困境那因為我們就跟很多各地原住民國家一樣就是原住民保留地他其實有所謂的土地的一些限制問題但是我們的原保地很大喔像私有的話大概有13萬公頃公有的原保地也有13萬公頃可是我要跟主委講\n\n20\n00:07:21,537 --> 00:07:37,207\n這些土地其實早就已經流失大半雖然原住民的保留地只能限制給原住民不能流入非原住民但是道高一尺魔高一丈這些年透過各種方法\n\n21\n00:07:37,887 --> 00:07:53,250\n包括我們的設定抵押、借名登記等等那乃至於現在因為我們有進法補償金這幾年所以呢也很多人都把它視為很搶手的拍地霧甚至\n\n22\n00:07:53,951 --> 00:08:07,128\n有很多人就是透過原住民自己用現金去直接收購很多很多的原保地那我們也不知道會留作什麼用途所以在這個地方我很希望說能夠趕快遏止這樣的現象我們來看一下\n\n23\n00:08:10,913 --> 00:08:31,088\n一般的林地我們可以看到它在市場建價其實是可以帶到很多就是以市場建價即便是打八成都有400萬但是元寶地是被拒絕的而且是用公道限值去算所以它的價值同樣的一公頃它可能只有160萬可是我們現在就是想說\n\n24\n00:08:34,891 --> 00:08:56,345\n這樣的一個求貸無門就會落入另外一個財務陷阱因為我們到google打元寶地貸款其實啪啦啪啦啪啦一堆但是他們都是私人當鋪而且呢月利率你可以看到這樣其實年利率他就是幾乎就是高利貸但是我接過很多的陳情案他明明只有借一萬元可能兩年後他要還三十幾萬\n\n25\n00:08:57,706 --> 00:09:13,119\n為什麼因為他根本對利率一點概念都沒有他可能拿到的是日利率所以我想這個月利13%就已經高利但很可怕了所以我想說這樣的一個惡性循環我是希望說主委您剛剛有提到\n\n26\n00:09:13,599 --> 00:09:41,635\n就是我們可不可以去協調這些銀行公會就是禁止金融機構拒絕以原保地做擔保能夠有禁止歧視條款另外您也有提到過就是增加銀行的誘因那能不能夠在ESG永續金融的評鑑給予加分又或者是參考紐西蘭的做法建立我們原保地的建架系統能夠跟特定的銀行合作給予我們一些專案的金融服務我想\n\n27\n00:09:43,076 --> 00:09:55,865\n這個部分是我很在意的那希望主委您是不是有可能就是去討論一些對策那能夠一併的就是也在兩個月或三個月內給予回覆\n\n28\n00:09:57,088 --> 00:10:12,857\n是委員提出案子去年10月財政部有討論過了那當然主要還是因為移轉的限制不過我們會遵循委員的意見去跟跨部會做研究包括跟我們的銀行工會去做研究是就照您的意思兩個月之後跟您回覆\n\n29\n00:10:13,297 --> 00:10:27,888\n好,那非常謝謝主委。但是這個研究可行性,我們盡量朝您期待的方向去努力。是,是。好,謝謝主委給予這樣的一個友善跟肯定支持的答覆。感謝您。好,謝謝主委,謝謝主席。感謝吳立華委員的質詢,接著我們請嚴匡衡委員質詢。\n\n","tsv":"start\tend\ttext\n1051\t2133\t有請黃主委有請黃主委\n10263\t38144\t主委您好我看到今天金管會的業務報告中有一個主題叫做推動永續金融發展那據我所知一開始的時候推動這個綠色金融行動方案是針對這些綠能產業的投融資那2.0版的時候進一步擴展到永續金融這樣的一個概念\n39085\t62734\t那目前最新的話應該是說是一個3.0版那我看到的是有公告永續經濟活動認定參考的指引那辦理永續金融評鑑或者是要求上市櫃公司定期發布永續報告等等那這個部分我們當然知道這個永續的概念\n64019\t82835\t是在這個3.0榜當中其實是避免一些票率啦就是宣稱他有對一些對永續環境的這樣的一個做法但是可能實際上沒有但是我比較想了解請教主委的是這個永續的概念有沒有包含原住民族的金融\n84487\t112890\t我們現在這三個階段基本上都是以機構為主就是金融機構跟上市會公司那原住民部分在普惠方面是有涵蓋是帶給您報告其實我會這樣問是因為我了解其他國家他們其實有在關注原住民的金融服務以澳洲來看那澳洲有一個澳洲可持續金融倡議第一個他有要求\n113751\t120801\t建立原住民的金融服務辦公室關注原住民金融架構設計與服務包容性鼓勵金融機構讓原住民獲得\n130235\t149983\t銀行的服務跟退休金的服務那另外呢他們也會強化對原住民有益而且適當的保險產品那更重要的是呢他們對於一些投資者所做的淨值調查他們也會去看有沒有尊重原住民的權利那另外像紐西蘭這個國家\n151243\t168248\t貓利Business永續金融中心因為貓利的土地結構跟我們臺灣其實是很類似的那它也有一些土地的限制所以他們也是很難用土地作為擔保品所以呢這個Business它就是辦理計畫\n170068\t191482\t與銀行合作去支持一些針對毛利土地貸款的解決方案那舉個例子他們也會針對一些想要蓋房子的去做一個專案計畫幫助他們去做辦理貸款建造房屋又或者呢我們看到加拿大那加拿大的做法是他們有一個永續金融行動的委員會\n192483\t215508\t他們重視的是加強原住民在永續金融的一個參與那他們有一個叫綠色與轉型金融分類路徑圖當中有一個叫不造成重大損害的評估他就有去包含尊重原住民權利跟和解這個部分所以我想要請教一下主委那您有沒有一些看法想法因為\n216108\t238324\t在您初次來辦公室拜訪的時候我有跟您提到我很關心未來原住民土地在我們金融服務的一個角色那我覺得您是非常友善也很有想法那我是在想說是否有讓原住民族參與強化或支持族人金融安全那也避免這個所謂的票率\n238664\t259209\t在受信的進行進職調查的時候是不是會去一併考量要求要有原住民的知情同意權我想先聽聽看主委您的想法我想謝謝委員您帶來更廣泛的社會價值讓我們學習非常感謝那您提到的如果從上數位公司來講\n260149\t285872\t我們現在的永續報告書是依照荷蘭GRI去編制的那它這裡面是有定有原住民相關規範有幾個原則來揭露包括不歧視原住民那永無違反原住民人權對原住民員工的照顧那這些如果上市會公司有做這些事或是做了這些事有影響他都應該在永續報告書說去揭露\n286337\t310993\t所以目前已經有這樣規劃了嗎?有這樣子的規範只是而且不只如此因為我們要求金融機構做投融資的時候要跟要做議核那如果後面的那個投資的對象他有牽涉到原住民這當然也應該是在這個裡面議核的範圍之內所以原則上應該是有那我們會強化落實好那如果有的話因為我自己看我是看不到\n311733\t339348\t我看了綠色金融行動方案3.0又或者是永續經濟活動的認定方法我目前是看不到但是主委您說有嘛所以我是在想說是不是可以請金管會聯同園民會這邊能夠就永續金融架構中剛才您說有那我是在想說如果有的話又或者沒有那是不是要去做一些修改那是不是三個月內可以讓我可以看到一個書面報告\n340865\t362285\t好,委員沒聽報告,因為我們也了解國內現在的園民會其實他統籌原住民各類型的經濟活動相關的活動,那這個事情如果你可不可以麻煩委員你也跟原住民委員會提一下,我們會跟他去諮詢溝通,其實在維新保險方面,金管會跟原住民委員會都有很好的合作,\n362805\t388557\t對沒有關係我是希望說能夠在金管會的架構底下因為畢竟園民會他其實並不是所謂的金融專業單位好我想委員您的期許跟指示我們會跟園民會溝通看看我們的綠色金融現在這個方案中有沒有可以增加一些關注原住民的政策是不是這樣可以我們三個月之內給您完成我就是希望可以看到這些好不好\n389237\t414059\t因為我們也很羨慕國外的做法我們也是很進步的國家希望我們也能夠有這些好的服務主委其實我講這些還是要回歸到一件事情因為這件事情其實困擾原住民幾十年也讓原住民窮的只剩下土地原住民是在自己的土地當故宮\n415160\t440396\t就是一個這樣的窘境困境那因為我們就跟很多各地原住民國家一樣就是原住民保留地他其實有所謂的土地的一些限制問題但是我們的原保地很大喔像私有的話大概有13萬公頃公有的原保地也有13萬公頃可是我要跟主委講\n441537\t457207\t這些土地其實早就已經流失大半雖然原住民的保留地只能限制給原住民不能流入非原住民但是道高一尺 魔高一丈這些年透過各種方法\n457887\t473250\t包括我們的設定抵押、借名登記等等那乃至於現在因為我們有進法補償金這幾年所以呢也很多人都把它視為很搶手的拍地霧甚至\n473951\t487128\t有很多人就是透過原住民自己用現金去直接收購很多很多的原保地那我們也不知道會留作什麼用途所以在這個地方我很希望說能夠趕快遏止這樣的現象我們來看一下\n490913\t511088\t一般的林地我們可以看到它在市場建價其實是可以帶到很多就是以市場建價即便是打八成都有400萬但是元寶地是被拒絕的而且是用公道限值去算所以它的價值同樣的一公頃它可能只有160萬可是我們現在就是想說\n514891\t536345\t這樣的一個求貸無門就會落入另外一個財務陷阱因為我們到google打元寶地貸款其實啪啦啪啦啪啦一堆但是他們都是私人當鋪而且呢月利率你可以看到這樣其實年利率他就是幾乎就是高利貸但是我接過很多的陳情案他明明只有借一萬元可能兩年後他要還三十幾萬\n537706\t553119\t為什麼因為他根本對利率一點概念都沒有他可能拿到的是日利率所以我想這個月利13%就已經高利但很可怕了所以我想說這樣的一個惡性循環我是希望說主委您剛剛有提到\n553599\t581635\t就是我們可不可以去協調這些銀行公會就是禁止金融機構拒絕以原保地做擔保能夠有禁止歧視條款另外您也有提到過就是增加銀行的誘因那能不能夠在ESG永續金融的評鑑給予加分又或者是參考紐西蘭的做法建立我們原保地的建架系統能夠跟特定的銀行合作給予我們一些專案的金融服務我想\n583076\t595865\t這個部分是我很在意的那希望主委您是不是有可能就是去討論一些對策那能夠一併的就是也在兩個月或三個月內給予回覆\n597088\t612857\t是委員提出案子去年10月財政部有討論過了那當然主要還是因為移轉的限制不過我們會遵循委員的意見去跟跨部會做研究包括跟我們的銀行工會去做研究是就照您的意思兩個月之後跟您回覆\n613297\t627888\t好,那非常謝謝主委。但是這個研究可行性,我們盡量朝您期待的方向去努力。是,是。好,謝謝主委給予這樣的一個友善跟肯定支持的答覆。感謝您。好,謝謝主委,謝謝主席。感謝吳立華委員的質詢,接著我們請嚴匡衡委員質詢。\n","txt":"有請黃主委有請黃主委\n主委您好我看到今天金管會的業務報告中有一個主題叫做推動永續金融發展那據我所知一開始的時候推動這個綠色金融行動方案是針對這些綠能產業的投融資那2.0版的時候進一步擴展到永續金融這樣的一個概念\n那目前最新的話應該是說是一個3.0版那我看到的是有公告永續經濟活動認定參考的指引那辦理永續金融評鑑或者是要求上市櫃公司定期發布永續報告等等那這個部分我們當然知道這個永續的概念\n是在這個3.0榜當中其實是避免一些票率啦就是宣稱他有對一些對永續環境的這樣的一個做法但是可能實際上沒有但是我比較想了解請教主委的是這個永續的概念有沒有包含原住民族的金融\n我們現在這三個階段基本上都是以機構為主就是金融機構跟上市會公司那原住民部分在普惠方面是有涵蓋是帶給您報告其實我會這樣問是因為我了解其他國家他們其實有在關注原住民的金融服務以澳洲來看那澳洲有一個澳洲可持續金融倡議第一個他有要求\n建立原住民的金融服務辦公室關注原住民金融架構設計與服務包容性鼓勵金融機構讓原住民獲得\n銀行的服務跟退休金的服務那另外呢他們也會強化對原住民有益而且適當的保險產品那更重要的是呢他們對於一些投資者所做的淨值調查他們也會去看有沒有尊重原住民的權利那另外像紐西蘭這個國家\n貓利Business永續金融中心因為貓利的土地結構跟我們臺灣其實是很類似的那它也有一些土地的限制所以他們也是很難用土地作為擔保品所以呢這個Business它就是辦理計畫\n與銀行合作去支持一些針對毛利土地貸款的解決方案那舉個例子他們也會針對一些想要蓋房子的去做一個專案計畫幫助他們去做辦理貸款建造房屋又或者呢我們看到加拿大那加拿大的做法是他們有一個永續金融行動的委員會\n他們重視的是加強原住民在永續金融的一個參與那他們有一個叫綠色與轉型金融分類路徑圖當中有一個叫不造成重大損害的評估他就有去包含尊重原住民權利跟和解這個部分所以我想要請教一下主委那您有沒有一些看法想法因為\n在您初次來辦公室拜訪的時候我有跟您提到我很關心未來原住民土地在我們金融服務的一個角色那我覺得您是非常友善也很有想法那我是在想說是否有讓原住民族參與強化或支持族人金融安全那也避免這個所謂的票率\n在受信的進行進職調查的時候是不是會去一併考量要求要有原住民的知情同意權我想先聽聽看主委您的想法我想謝謝委員您帶來更廣泛的社會價值讓我們學習非常感謝那您提到的如果從上數位公司來講\n我們現在的永續報告書是依照荷蘭GRI去編制的那它這裡面是有定有原住民相關規範有幾個原則來揭露包括不歧視原住民那永無違反原住民人權對原住民員工的照顧那這些如果上市會公司有做這些事或是做了這些事有影響他都應該在永續報告書說去揭露\n所以目前已經有這樣規劃了嗎?有這樣子的規範只是而且不只如此因為我們要求金融機構做投融資的時候要跟要做議核那如果後面的那個投資的對象他有牽涉到原住民這當然也應該是在這個裡面議核的範圍之內所以原則上應該是有那我們會強化落實好那如果有的話因為我自己看我是看不到\n我看了綠色金融行動方案3.0又或者是永續經濟活動的認定方法我目前是看不到但是主委您說有嘛所以我是在想說是不是可以請金管會聯同園民會這邊能夠就永續金融架構中剛才您說有那我是在想說如果有的話又或者沒有那是不是要去做一些修改那是不是三個月內可以讓我可以看到一個書面報告\n好,委員沒聽報告,因為我們也了解國內現在的園民會其實他統籌原住民各類型的經濟活動相關的活動,那這個事情如果你可不可以麻煩委員你也跟原住民委員會提一下,我們會跟他去諮詢溝通,其實在維新保險方面,金管會跟原住民委員會都有很好的合作,\n對沒有關係我是希望說能夠在金管會的架構底下因為畢竟園民會他其實並不是所謂的金融專業單位好我想委員您的期許跟指示我們會跟園民會溝通看看我們的綠色金融現在這個方案中有沒有可以增加一些關注原住民的政策是不是這樣可以我們三個月之內給您完成我就是希望可以看到這些好不好\n因為我們也很羨慕國外的做法我們也是很進步的國家希望我們也能夠有這些好的服務主委其實我講這些還是要回歸到一件事情因為這件事情其實困擾原住民幾十年也讓原住民窮的只剩下土地原住民是在自己的土地當故宮\n就是一個這樣的窘境困境那因為我們就跟很多各地原住民國家一樣就是原住民保留地他其實有所謂的土地的一些限制問題但是我們的原保地很大喔像私有的話大概有13萬公頃公有的原保地也有13萬公頃可是我要跟主委講\n這些土地其實早就已經流失大半雖然原住民的保留地只能限制給原住民不能流入非原住民但是道高一尺 魔高一丈這些年透過各種方法\n包括我們的設定抵押、借名登記等等那乃至於現在因為我們有進法補償金這幾年所以呢也很多人都把它視為很搶手的拍地霧甚至\n有很多人就是透過原住民自己用現金去直接收購很多很多的原保地那我們也不知道會留作什麼用途所以在這個地方我很希望說能夠趕快遏止這樣的現象我們來看一下\n一般的林地我們可以看到它在市場建價其實是可以帶到很多就是以市場建價即便是打八成都有400萬但是元寶地是被拒絕的而且是用公道限值去算所以它的價值同樣的一公頃它可能只有160萬可是我們現在就是想說\n這樣的一個求貸無門就會落入另外一個財務陷阱因為我們到google打元寶地貸款其實啪啦啪啦啪啦一堆但是他們都是私人當鋪而且呢月利率你可以看到這樣其實年利率他就是幾乎就是高利貸但是我接過很多的陳情案他明明只有借一萬元可能兩年後他要還三十幾萬\n為什麼因為他根本對利率一點概念都沒有他可能拿到的是日利率所以我想這個月利13%就已經高利但很可怕了所以我想說這樣的一個惡性循環我是希望說主委您剛剛有提到\n就是我們可不可以去協調這些銀行公會就是禁止金融機構拒絕以原保地做擔保能夠有禁止歧視條款另外您也有提到過就是增加銀行的誘因那能不能夠在ESG永續金融的評鑑給予加分又或者是參考紐西蘭的做法建立我們原保地的建架系統能夠跟特定的銀行合作給予我們一些專案的金融服務我想\n這個部分是我很在意的那希望主委您是不是有可能就是去討論一些對策那能夠一併的就是也在兩個月或三個月內給予回覆\n是委員提出案子去年10月財政部有討論過了那當然主要還是因為移轉的限制不過我們會遵循委員的意見去跟跨部會做研究包括跟我們的銀行工會去做研究是就照您的意思兩個月之後跟您回覆\n好,那非常謝謝主委。但是這個研究可行性,我們盡量朝您期待的方向去努力。是,是。好,謝謝主委給予這樣的一個友善跟肯定支持的答覆。感謝您。好,謝謝主委,謝謝主席。感謝吳立華委員的質詢,接著我們請嚴匡衡委員質詢。\n","vtt":"WEBVTT\n\n00:01.051 --> 00:02.133\n有請黃主委有請黃主委\n\n00:10.263 --> 00:38.144\n主委您好我看到今天金管會的業務報告中有一個主題叫做推動永續金融發展那據我所知一開始的時候推動這個綠色金融行動方案是針對這些綠能產業的投融資那2.0版的時候進一步擴展到永續金融這樣的一個概念\n\n00:39.085 --> 01:02.734\n那目前最新的話應該是說是一個3.0版那我看到的是有公告永續經濟活動認定參考的指引那辦理永續金融評鑑或者是要求上市櫃公司定期發布永續報告等等那這個部分我們當然知道這個永續的概念\n\n01:04.019 --> 01:22.835\n是在這個3.0榜當中其實是避免一些票率啦就是宣稱他有對一些對永續環境的這樣的一個做法但是可能實際上沒有但是我比較想了解請教主委的是這個永續的概念有沒有包含原住民族的金融\n\n01:24.487 --> 01:52.890\n我們現在這三個階段基本上都是以機構為主就是金融機構跟上市會公司那原住民部分在普惠方面是有涵蓋是帶給您報告其實我會這樣問是因為我了解其他國家他們其實有在關注原住民的金融服務以澳洲來看那澳洲有一個澳洲可持續金融倡議第一個他有要求\n\n01:53.751 --> 02:00.801\n建立原住民的金融服務辦公室關注原住民金融架構設計與服務包容性鼓勵金融機構讓原住民獲得\n\n02:10.235 --> 02:29.983\n銀行的服務跟退休金的服務那另外呢他們也會強化對原住民有益而且適當的保險產品那更重要的是呢他們對於一些投資者所做的淨值調查他們也會去看有沒有尊重原住民的權利那另外像紐西蘭這個國家\n\n02:31.243 --> 02:48.248\n貓利Business永續金融中心因為貓利的土地結構跟我們臺灣其實是很類似的那它也有一些土地的限制所以他們也是很難用土地作為擔保品所以呢這個Business它就是辦理計畫\n\n02:50.068 --> 03:11.482\n與銀行合作去支持一些針對毛利土地貸款的解決方案那舉個例子他們也會針對一些想要蓋房子的去做一個專案計畫幫助他們去做辦理貸款建造房屋又或者呢我們看到加拿大那加拿大的做法是他們有一個永續金融行動的委員會\n\n03:12.483 --> 03:35.508\n他們重視的是加強原住民在永續金融的一個參與那他們有一個叫綠色與轉型金融分類路徑圖當中有一個叫不造成重大損害的評估他就有去包含尊重原住民權利跟和解這個部分所以我想要請教一下主委那您有沒有一些看法想法因為\n\n03:36.108 --> 03:58.324\n在您初次來辦公室拜訪的時候我有跟您提到我很關心未來原住民土地在我們金融服務的一個角色那我覺得您是非常友善也很有想法那我是在想說是否有讓原住民族參與強化或支持族人金融安全那也避免這個所謂的票率\n\n03:58.664 --> 04:19.209\n在受信的進行進職調查的時候是不是會去一併考量要求要有原住民的知情同意權我想先聽聽看主委您的想法我想謝謝委員您帶來更廣泛的社會價值讓我們學習非常感謝那您提到的如果從上數位公司來講\n\n04:20.149 --> 04:45.872\n我們現在的永續報告書是依照荷蘭GRI去編制的那它這裡面是有定有原住民相關規範有幾個原則來揭露包括不歧視原住民那永無違反原住民人權對原住民員工的照顧那這些如果上市會公司有做這些事或是做了這些事有影響他都應該在永續報告書說去揭露\n\n04:46.337 --> 05:10.993\n所以目前已經有這樣規劃了嗎?有這樣子的規範只是而且不只如此因為我們要求金融機構做投融資的時候要跟要做議核那如果後面的那個投資的對象他有牽涉到原住民這當然也應該是在這個裡面議核的範圍之內所以原則上應該是有那我們會強化落實好那如果有的話因為我自己看我是看不到\n\n05:11.733 --> 05:39.348\n我看了綠色金融行動方案3.0又或者是永續經濟活動的認定方法我目前是看不到但是主委您說有嘛所以我是在想說是不是可以請金管會聯同園民會這邊能夠就永續金融架構中剛才您說有那我是在想說如果有的話又或者沒有那是不是要去做一些修改那是不是三個月內可以讓我可以看到一個書面報告\n\n05:40.865 --> 06:02.285\n好,委員沒聽報告,因為我們也了解國內現在的園民會其實他統籌原住民各類型的經濟活動相關的活動,那這個事情如果你可不可以麻煩委員你也跟原住民委員會提一下,我們會跟他去諮詢溝通,其實在維新保險方面,金管會跟原住民委員會都有很好的合作,\n\n06:02.805 --> 06:28.557\n對沒有關係我是希望說能夠在金管會的架構底下因為畢竟園民會他其實並不是所謂的金融專業單位好我想委員您的期許跟指示我們會跟園民會溝通看看我們的綠色金融現在這個方案中有沒有可以增加一些關注原住民的政策是不是這樣可以我們三個月之內給您完成我就是希望可以看到這些好不好\n\n06:29.237 --> 06:54.059\n因為我們也很羨慕國外的做法我們也是很進步的國家希望我們也能夠有這些好的服務主委其實我講這些還是要回歸到一件事情因為這件事情其實困擾原住民幾十年也讓原住民窮的只剩下土地原住民是在自己的土地當故宮\n\n06:55.160 --> 07:20.396\n就是一個這樣的窘境困境那因為我們就跟很多各地原住民國家一樣就是原住民保留地他其實有所謂的土地的一些限制問題但是我們的原保地很大喔像私有的話大概有13萬公頃公有的原保地也有13萬公頃可是我要跟主委講\n\n07:21.537 --> 07:37.207\n這些土地其實早就已經流失大半雖然原住民的保留地只能限制給原住民不能流入非原住民但是道高一尺魔高一丈這些年透過各種方法\n\n07:37.887 --> 07:53.250\n包括我們的設定抵押、借名登記等等那乃至於現在因為我們有進法補償金這幾年所以呢也很多人都把它視為很搶手的拍地霧甚至\n\n07:53.951 --> 08:07.128\n有很多人就是透過原住民自己用現金去直接收購很多很多的原保地那我們也不知道會留作什麼用途所以在這個地方我很希望說能夠趕快遏止這樣的現象我們來看一下\n\n08:10.913 --> 08:31.088\n一般的林地我們可以看到它在市場建價其實是可以帶到很多就是以市場建價即便是打八成都有400萬但是元寶地是被拒絕的而且是用公道限值去算所以它的價值同樣的一公頃它可能只有160萬可是我們現在就是想說\n\n08:34.891 --> 08:56.345\n這樣的一個求貸無門就會落入另外一個財務陷阱因為我們到google打元寶地貸款其實啪啦啪啦啪啦一堆但是他們都是私人當鋪而且呢月利率你可以看到這樣其實年利率他就是幾乎就是高利貸但是我接過很多的陳情案他明明只有借一萬元可能兩年後他要還三十幾萬\n\n08:57.706 --> 09:13.119\n為什麼因為他根本對利率一點概念都沒有他可能拿到的是日利率所以我想這個月利13%就已經高利但很可怕了所以我想說這樣的一個惡性循環我是希望說主委您剛剛有提到\n\n09:13.599 --> 09:41.635\n就是我們可不可以去協調這些銀行公會就是禁止金融機構拒絕以原保地做擔保能夠有禁止歧視條款另外您也有提到過就是增加銀行的誘因那能不能夠在ESG永續金融的評鑑給予加分又或者是參考紐西蘭的做法建立我們原保地的建架系統能夠跟特定的銀行合作給予我們一些專案的金融服務我想\n\n09:43.076 --> 09:55.865\n這個部分是我很在意的那希望主委您是不是有可能就是去討論一些對策那能夠一併的就是也在兩個月或三個月內給予回覆\n\n09:57.088 --> 10:12.857\n是委員提出案子去年10月財政部有討論過了那當然主要還是因為移轉的限制不過我們會遵循委員的意見去跟跨部會做研究包括跟我們的銀行工會去做研究是就照您的意思兩個月之後跟您回覆\n\n10:13.297 --> 10:27.888\n好,那非常謝謝主委。但是這個研究可行性,我們盡量朝您期待的方向去努力。是,是。好,謝謝主委給予這樣的一個友善跟肯定支持的答覆。感謝您。好,謝謝主委,謝謝主席。感謝吳立華委員的質詢,接著我們請嚴匡衡委員質詢。\n\n","segments":[{"start":1.051,"end":2.133,"text":"有請黃主委有請黃主委"},{"start":10.263,"end":38.144,"text":"主委您好我看到今天金管會的業務報告中有一個主題叫做推動永續金融發展那據我所知一開始的時候推動這個綠色金融行動方案是針對這些綠能產業的投融資那2.0版的時候進一步擴展到永續金融這樣的一個概念"},{"start":39.085,"end":62.734,"text":"那目前最新的話應該是說是一個3.0版那我看到的是有公告永續經濟活動認定參考的指引那辦理永續金融評鑑或者是要求上市櫃公司定期發布永續報告等等那這個部分我們當然知道這個永續的概念"},{"start":64.019,"end":82.835,"text":"是在這個3.0榜當中其實是避免一些票率啦就是宣稱他有對一些對永續環境的這樣的一個做法但是可能實際上沒有但是我比較想了解請教主委的是這個永續的概念有沒有包含原住民族的金融"},{"start":84.487,"end":112.89,"text":"我們現在這三個階段基本上都是以機構為主就是金融機構跟上市會公司那原住民部分在普惠方面是有涵蓋是帶給您報告其實我會這樣問是因為我了解其他國家他們其實有在關注原住民的金融服務以澳洲來看那澳洲有一個澳洲可持續金融倡議第一個他有要求"},{"start":113.751,"end":120.801,"text":"建立原住民的金融服務辦公室關注原住民金融架構設計與服務包容性鼓勵金融機構讓原住民獲得"},{"start":130.235,"end":149.983,"text":"銀行的服務跟退休金的服務那另外呢他們也會強化對原住民有益而且適當的保險產品那更重要的是呢他們對於一些投資者所做的淨值調查他們也會去看有沒有尊重原住民的權利那另外像紐西蘭這個國家"},{"start":151.243,"end":168.248,"text":"貓利Business永續金融中心因為貓利的土地結構跟我們臺灣其實是很類似的那它也有一些土地的限制所以他們也是很難用土地作為擔保品所以呢這個Business它就是辦理計畫"},{"start":170.068,"end":191.482,"text":"與銀行合作去支持一些針對毛利土地貸款的解決方案那舉個例子他們也會針對一些想要蓋房子的去做一個專案計畫幫助他們去做辦理貸款建造房屋又或者呢我們看到加拿大那加拿大的做法是他們有一個永續金融行動的委員會"},{"start":192.483,"end":215.508,"text":"他們重視的是加強原住民在永續金融的一個參與那他們有一個叫綠色與轉型金融分類路徑圖當中有一個叫不造成重大損害的評估他就有去包含尊重原住民權利跟和解這個部分所以我想要請教一下主委那您有沒有一些看法想法因為"},{"start":216.108,"end":238.324,"text":"在您初次來辦公室拜訪的時候我有跟您提到我很關心未來原住民土地在我們金融服務的一個角色那我覺得您是非常友善也很有想法那我是在想說是否有讓原住民族參與強化或支持族人金融安全那也避免這個所謂的票率"},{"start":238.664,"end":259.209,"text":"在受信的進行進職調查的時候是不是會去一併考量要求要有原住民的知情同意權我想先聽聽看主委您的想法我想謝謝委員您帶來更廣泛的社會價值讓我們學習非常感謝那您提到的如果從上數位公司來講"},{"start":260.149,"end":285.872,"text":"我們現在的永續報告書是依照荷蘭GRI去編制的那它這裡面是有定有原住民相關規範有幾個原則來揭露包括不歧視原住民那永無違反原住民人權對原住民員工的照顧那這些如果上市會公司有做這些事或是做了這些事有影響他都應該在永續報告書說去揭露"},{"start":286.337,"end":310.993,"text":"所以目前已經有這樣規劃了嗎?有這樣子的規範只是而且不只如此因為我們要求金融機構做投融資的時候要跟要做議核那如果後面的那個投資的對象他有牽涉到原住民這當然也應該是在這個裡面議核的範圍之內所以原則上應該是有那我們會強化落實好那如果有的話因為我自己看我是看不到"},{"start":311.733,"end":339.348,"text":"我看了綠色金融行動方案3.0又或者是永續經濟活動的認定方法我目前是看不到但是主委您說有嘛所以我是在想說是不是可以請金管會聯同園民會這邊能夠就永續金融架構中剛才您說有那我是在想說如果有的話又或者沒有那是不是要去做一些修改那是不是三個月內可以讓我可以看到一個書面報告"},{"start":340.865,"end":362.285,"text":"好,委員沒聽報告,因為我們也了解國內現在的園民會其實他統籌原住民各類型的經濟活動相關的活動,那這個事情如果你可不可以麻煩委員你也跟原住民委員會提一下,我們會跟他去諮詢溝通,其實在維新保險方面,金管會跟原住民委員會都有很好的合作,"},{"start":362.805,"end":388.557,"text":"對沒有關係我是希望說能夠在金管會的架構底下因為畢竟園民會他其實並不是所謂的金融專業單位好我想委員您的期許跟指示我們會跟園民會溝通看看我們的綠色金融現在這個方案中有沒有可以增加一些關注原住民的政策是不是這樣可以我們三個月之內給您完成我就是希望可以看到這些好不好"},{"start":389.237,"end":414.059,"text":"因為我們也很羨慕國外的做法我們也是很進步的國家希望我們也能夠有這些好的服務主委其實我講這些還是要回歸到一件事情因為這件事情其實困擾原住民幾十年也讓原住民窮的只剩下土地原住民是在自己的土地當故宮"},{"start":415.16,"end":440.396,"text":"就是一個這樣的窘境困境那因為我們就跟很多各地原住民國家一樣就是原住民保留地他其實有所謂的土地的一些限制問題但是我們的原保地很大喔像私有的話大概有13萬公頃公有的原保地也有13萬公頃可是我要跟主委講"},{"start":441.537,"end":457.207,"text":"這些土地其實早就已經流失大半雖然原住民的保留地只能限制給原住民不能流入非原住民但是道高一尺 魔高一丈這些年透過各種方法"},{"start":457.887,"end":473.25,"text":"包括我們的設定抵押、借名登記等等那乃至於現在因為我們有進法補償金這幾年所以呢也很多人都把它視為很搶手的拍地霧甚至"},{"start":473.951,"end":487.128,"text":"有很多人就是透過原住民自己用現金去直接收購很多很多的原保地那我們也不知道會留作什麼用途所以在這個地方我很希望說能夠趕快遏止這樣的現象我們來看一下"},{"start":490.913,"end":511.088,"text":"一般的林地我們可以看到它在市場建價其實是可以帶到很多就是以市場建價即便是打八成都有400萬但是元寶地是被拒絕的而且是用公道限值去算所以它的價值同樣的一公頃它可能只有160萬可是我們現在就是想說"},{"start":514.891,"end":536.345,"text":"這樣的一個求貸無門就會落入另外一個財務陷阱因為我們到google打元寶地貸款其實啪啦啪啦啪啦一堆但是他們都是私人當鋪而且呢月利率你可以看到這樣其實年利率他就是幾乎就是高利貸但是我接過很多的陳情案他明明只有借一萬元可能兩年後他要還三十幾萬"},{"start":537.706,"end":553.119,"text":"為什麼因為他根本對利率一點概念都沒有他可能拿到的是日利率所以我想這個月利13%就已經高利但很可怕了所以我想說這樣的一個惡性循環我是希望說主委您剛剛有提到"},{"start":553.599,"end":581.635,"text":"就是我們可不可以去協調這些銀行公會就是禁止金融機構拒絕以原保地做擔保能夠有禁止歧視條款另外您也有提到過就是增加銀行的誘因那能不能夠在ESG永續金融的評鑑給予加分又或者是參考紐西蘭的做法建立我們原保地的建架系統能夠跟特定的銀行合作給予我們一些專案的金融服務我想"},{"start":583.076,"end":595.865,"text":"這個部分是我很在意的那希望主委您是不是有可能就是去討論一些對策那能夠一併的就是也在兩個月或三個月內給予回覆"},{"start":597.088,"end":612.857,"text":"是委員提出案子去年10月財政部有討論過了那當然主要還是因為移轉的限制不過我們會遵循委員的意見去跟跨部會做研究包括跟我們的銀行工會去做研究是就照您的意思兩個月之後跟您回覆"},{"start":613.297,"end":627.888,"text":"好,那非常謝謝主委。但是這個研究可行性,我們盡量朝您期待的方向去努力。是,是。好,謝謝主委給予這樣的一個友善跟肯定支持的答覆。感謝您。好,謝謝主委,謝謝主席。感謝吳立華委員的質詢,接著我們請嚴匡衡委員質詢。"}]}}}}