{"id":149238,"url":"https://ivod.ly.gov.tw/Play/Clip/1M/149238","video_url":"https://ivod-lyvod.cdn.hinet.net/vod_1/_definst_/mp4:1MClips/ad9f873b941d2dddf92c7aa1a6ec57e12dd7be9832461c05f8ba9b0039caa7a6ee8a114a4c4694a15ea18f28b6918d91.mp4/playlist.m3u8","委員名稱":"吳思瑤","委員發言時間":"11:07:05 - 11:20:38","影片長度":"00:13:33","會議時間":"2024-03-04T09:00:00+08:00","會議名稱":"立法院第11屆第1會期司法及法制委員會第2次全體委員會議（事由：邀請司法院秘書長列席說明立法計畫，並備質詢。）","meet":{"tmpMeeting":null,"title":"第11屆第1會期司法及法制委員會第2次全體委員會議","term":11,"type":"委員會","sessionPeriod":1,"sessionTimes":2,"committees":[36],"id":"委員會-11-1-36-2"},"date":"2024-03-04","duration":813,"end_time":"2024-03-04T11:20:38+08:00","start_time":"2024-03-04T11:07:05+08:00","features":["ai-transcript","gazette"],"type":"Clip","gazette":{"lineno":555,"blocks":[["吳委員思瑤：（11時7分）謝謝主席，有請我們司法院，謝謝我們秘書長還有司法院的同仁，大家早安，我是吳思瑤，我是司法及法制委員會的新生，我會努力學習，如果思瑤有發言或是內容有不正確的地方，也歡迎大家可以隨時地指正我，我們互相尊重。我今天會針對國民法官上路的成效來虛心檢討，剛剛也很多委員垂詢過，還有司法人員的離職潮是5年新高，我們的改善方案在哪裡，我會就教於各位。但是進入我的主題之前，我想司法院也是我們憲法運作的解釋機關，從大法官釋憲到憲法法庭的運作，我想問一下秘書長，行政、立法之間質詢是上對下的關係嗎？請就憲法的專業來回答這個問題。"],["吳秘書長三龍：那一天我是看……"],["吳委員思瑤：您可以大聲一點。"],["吳秘書長三龍：那一天我是看會上主席是有提到這個是行政院跟立法院之間的關係。"],["吳委員思瑤：所以呢？再具體一點，質詢是上對下的關係嗎？就您的憲法素養，您是司法院的秘書長。"],["吳秘書長三龍：應該是兩院之間如何各本於職權。"],["吳委員思瑤：好，依據我們非常多的大法官釋憲都告訴了我們，check and balance，憲法機關之間是權力分立、平等相維的，我想在新國會上路的時候，我們作為憲法的解釋機關也應當來捍衛這樣子的權力分立的重要原則跟價值。","第二個問題，也是今天、也正在此時此刻，我剛剛在隔壁的內政委員會，我赫然發現有在野黨委員原本有提出一個臨時提案，但目前是暫擱，但是也是有憲法方面是否合宜的問題想就教於您，針對金廈海域的意外事故，有在野黨的委員在立法院提案要成立調閱專案小組，也就是要以立法權來介入、來進行一個調閱的偵辦，那我想就教於我們秘書長或者是我們憲法法院書記廳楊廳長，您是這方面的專業，針對任何一個檢方偵辦中的案件，立法院得以來成立調閱專案小組，用立法權來介入司法檢調的權限嗎？這應該是簡單的ABC問題，請秘書長。"],["吳秘書長三龍：關於立法院的調查權，之前在大法官釋字第585號、第325號還有第613號、第633號、第729號都有做一些說明。"],["吳委員思瑤：所以回應我的問題，今天這個金門意外事件非常不幸，我們當然希望協助釐清真相，立法委員本於職責提出海巡弟兄的裝備要提升或是在執法過程中的一些協力、精進，這當然是立法委員監督的範圍跟事項，但如果要對偵辦中的案件成立調閱小組，到底可以嗎？"],["吳秘書長三龍：我剛剛有向委員說明，關於國會調查權部分，先前有這些解釋……"],["吳委員思瑤：有非常多的解釋，但我認為非常需要在司法及法制委員會就憲法的運作原則，透過司法院的專業人員、秘書長還有廳長釐清，我們必須把憲政運作的原則搞清楚，否則國會會鬧了笑話。釋字第729號非常清楚地解釋檢察機關代表國家進行犯罪之偵查與追溯，基於權力分立與制衡原則，且為保障檢察機關獨立行使職權，對於偵查中之案件，立法院自不得向其調閱相關卷證。換言之，廳長您點頭嘛？所以你要補充說明釋字第729號的精神，如果立法院通過這樣的臨時提案要成立一個調閱小組，針對檢調在偵辦中的案件，Yes or No？可以不可以？"],["楊廳長皓清：跟委員說明，根據釋字第729號，就如同剛剛委員所說明的，它在解釋文裡面明文記載，立法院向檢察機關調閱偵查中的案件部分是不能向其調閱卷證，如果是調閱已偵查終結而不起訴或是未經起訴而以其他方式結案的卷證，也有設定相關的範圍，以上。"],["吳委員思瑤：謝謝，廳長的說明非常清楚。立法院僅能在制度、預算、法律等事項對檢察機關進行通案監督，應無介入個案調閱、偵查卷證之餘地，這是釋字第729號的內容。內政委員會的這個提案目前應當是沒有處理，我也希望在野黨委員聽到今天司法院秘書長還有憲法法庭的廳長再次為我們清楚說明大法官釋字第729號的基本精神，應當要懸崖勒馬。我們不樂見任何政治力介入司法案件，我們也不希望粗糙的國會特偵組就這樣出現了嗎？違憲非常清楚，謝謝您的回應，我一定要在這裡利用我的質詢時間再次釐清嚴肅的憲法分立，我們應當遵守原則，謝謝您的回答。","我們來看看我的第2頁質詢，我手上拿的是台北書展，我去看了親子天下的攤位，我跟陳建仁院長一起去的，這一本「小大人的公民素養課」非常好，裡頭針對最新的國民法官制度提供學生關於公民素養的科普，很清楚地為我們釐清國民法官就是為了拉近、讓公民有平等參與的權利，我們去除過去法官高高在上，我們希望打造親近、友善，讓公民也可以成為司法審判的協力者，這是非常好的，你們可以一起來推推這本書。我們的國民法官法上路，在審查法案時我也都參與了，軟體部分就是修法，硬體部分我們來檢視，我們跟設計研究院攜手合作打造國民法官的法庭設計，我跟秘書長說明，其實台灣設計研究院是吳思瑤、本席努力催生的，我希望透過Design Thinking讓任何公部門的空間規劃能有使用者的思維，可以達到我們要的政策目的。","我們透過設計導入使用者思維，讓國民法官法庭重新 redesign，目前已經改造21家地方法院、28間國民法官的法庭，這是before，改造前的高雄地方法院、南投地方法院、新北地方法院，就是高高在上、燈光又不明亮，感覺很遙遠，人民對於司法的近用完全被剝奪或是讓人覺得有相當高的距離感，那after呢？成功改造之後我們看到一個公開透明的空間、減少壓迫感的空間，而且是共融式的，所有的身心障礙者也可以使用無礙，更方便各地徵詢來的國民法官都有平等的權利來協助新的司法審判制度，使用過後，現在的成效怎麼樣？秘書長，你們覺得這樣的硬體導入有沒有助於國民法官的新制上路？"],["吳秘書長三龍：這個都有得到德國的那個……"],["吳委員思瑤：這得iF大獎或是……"],["吳秘書長三龍：設計大獎。"],["吳委員思瑤：對，得獎是額外的、是extra honor，對於使用者呢？"],["吳秘書長三龍：目前反應應該都不錯。"],["吳委員思瑤：應該都非常好！我們目前是28間改造完成，有下一階段的改造計畫嗎？"],["吳秘書長三龍：士林地院也在增設當中。"],["吳委員思瑤：好，所以第一階段完全就是針對國民法官的法庭設計嗎？還是有其他非國民法官的法庭也要啟動這個設計導入空間改造的新思維？"],["吳秘書長三龍：現在讓民眾有近用權，我們會朝這個方向有一些新的……"],["吳委員思瑤：好，因為時間有限，請您事後提供書面資料，有關下一階段的design thinking導入我們的司法制度，我會持續追蹤，基本上這個案子也是本席一路協助推動，我今天可以在司法及法制委員會就這部分來跟大家分享，我覺得非常光榮。我們的軟體修了法，硬體也提供相當的協力，但是國民法官法上路、國民法官法庭上路，剛剛前面幾位委員都檢視了它的執行成效，我也知道上週有邀請日本的專家來分享日本的刑事訴訟制度跟裁判員制度給我們，我手上的資料原定2023年要收300件，但實際收件是108件，審結只有16件、只有14.8%，換言之，它的收件數也好，或是審結數都偏低。剛剛有幾位委員提到國民法官的報到率不到一半，因為這是一個新制度，大家要去徵詢國民法官，包括在審理的過程也需要上課，是一個需要更多協力的角色，但是這樣的審結、收件比例，你們的檢討如何？"],["吳秘書長三龍：因為一開始大家都比較慎重……"],["吳委員思瑤：開始1年囉！"],["吳秘書長三龍：也會互相觀摩，一開始大家求平穩，看如何來進行……"],["吳委員思瑤：我們的辯護量能不足，國民法官的報到率不高，這都是橫在眼前的挑戰，包括鍾佳濱召委剛剛也提出來，你們是幾月份會提出執行1年的檢討報告？"],["李廳長釱任：我們最終的年度總結報告在今年9月份會提出來，也順便回應委員剛剛所關注的問題，為什麼審結案件只有16件？我可以跟委員報告一下，我們事實上也做過分析，因為112年前半年的起訴案件量真的比較少，到7月之後，檢察官慎重起訴、詳細偵查，起訴量慢慢上來，經過一個準備程序的期間，再進到選任程序、最後進到審理程序，所以大部分都集中在下半年才出現。目前收案量已經到22件，以相關的案件量成長跟犯罪數來講，應該是恢復到一般的正常水準，沒有起訴遞延的問題。"],["吳委員思瑤：我們就是要持續地精進。"],["李廳長釱任：是。"],["吳委員思瑤：其實，日本的制度2009年上路之後，他們也是花了好幾年，國民的滿意度才提升，他們甚至花了5年，我做過調查。所以我沒有苛責現在馬上就要達標，但是在軟硬體的部分，國會都給予支持，軟體上，我們的修法、配套、子法都完成了；在硬體部分，設計研究院也協助了、編列了預算，希望在軟硬體到位之後，國民法官的相關執行要能達到我們預期設定的目標，我們持續監督。","至於後面的主題，我以後再找機會就教大家。辛苦了！謝謝。"],["吳秘書長三龍：好，謝謝。"],["主席：現在處理臨時提案，臨時提案總共有2案，麻煩請宣讀。","一、","案由：有鑑於本院審查107年度中央政府總預算案有關司法院主管預算部分曾作有決議：「……，無須審查資力之扶助案件中，屢有具相當資力者在扶助之列，因欠缺排富條款而濫用扶助機制，衍生資源錯置之批評，使政府有限資源未能合理運用，可能排擠真正經濟弱勢者之需求，加重政府財政負擔。……。」然針對法扶提供扶助案件中，對於從104年到111年的申請法扶的案件數中，顯示知道「無須審查資力准予扶助案件」的比例，平均每年占62.5%，且呈現成長之趨勢，然在無須審查資力案件中，因「重罪強制辯護」、甚至是「低中收入戶」中之申請案，不乏出現有權有勢申請人，屢屢出現於社會新聞上，造成民眾對於法扶觀感不佳，並認為政府有浪費公帑之嫌，為避免違背法扶以提供人民法律扶助，保障人民基本訴訟權利為宗旨，要求司法院於一個月內將申請法扶無須審查資力的適用及防弊措施提出書面檢討報告，並送至本院司法法制委員會之委員。","提案人：吳宗憲　　傅崐萁　　謝龍介　　羅智強　　林思銘","二、","案由：本院委員翁曉玲等人，有鑑於司法及法制會委員會會議室原改建目的係為有效區隔立法委員與媒體，以求更好之攝影品質，以作為委員會改建之實驗性場域，致使本委員會與其他立法院設置之委員會有別。惟改建後是否能達成上開目的，仍有疑義，故提議將司法及法制委員會之空間配置增加兩個質詢台。是否有當？敬請公決。","提案人：翁曉玲","連署人：謝龍介　　林思銘　　傅崐萁　　柯建銘　　吳宗憲　　"],["主席：請問就第1案有無提案委員要補充說明？","請鍾委員發言。"],["鍾委員佳濱：不好意思，對於提案委員這項提案，我非常支持，但我在這裡注意到一點，也要提醒各位委員，在法律扶助法當中，從第一項到第四項主要是規範所謂的無資力者，也就是大家說的經濟弱勢者，但事實上法律扶助對象不限定屬於經濟弱勢者，也包括原住民、包括最輕本刑3年以上、包括剛才我們所說到的國民法官法當中這些因故意犯罪致死的，很多都會跑到法律扶助法的適用範圍，而這些當然都不會適用資力審查。我認為由於去年108件國法案還在檢討當中，也因為國法案接受法扶情況與其他不屬於免用資力審查案件顯然有別，1個月恐怕來不及，我剛才問過了嘛！他們到2月才公布第1份，到9月才會全部公布完，那麼是否可以給予3個月的時間，請司法院先就國法案當中受法律扶助的部分併入提案委員的這個部分，因為他們都是免受資力審查的，這樣的話，這個檢討會比較完整。請各位委員斟酌是否給予3個月的時間，謝謝。"],["主席：麻煩機關就委員所提的臨時提案做回復。"],["吳秘書長三龍：假如能有3個月，會比較完整，所以建議把1個月調整為3個月。"],["主席：請問提案委員，改成3個月呢？"],["林委員思銘：佳濱委員，你的意思是否就是就國民法官法這部分也要改？文字是不是修正一下？"],["鍾委員佳濱：可以在文字上加入「考量到國法案當中的檢討內容尚未出爐，給予3個月時間，也充分將國法案當中接受法律扶助的部分併入說明」，這樣比較完整。"],["林委員思銘：就是把你剛才講的這幾段文字併入、列入吧？OK。"],["吳委員思瑤：但我要請教一下，時間上可以嗎？國法案的檢討報告要9月才出來，要是這裡押3個月……可以喔？我是確認一下。大家是希望完整，所以要給你們合理的時間。"],["高廳長玉舜：如果把國法案件併入的話，可能還要再考慮刑事廳那邊的國法評估進度，這是原因之一。第二個就是如果把國法案件併入的話，議案可能會更複雜化，我們本來估計，如果不是針對國法案件、沒有包含國法案件，就一般強制辯護案件來做的話，由於法扶是獨立的基金會，對於他們如何運作，司法院是負責監管部分，所以就原來的提案來說，我們就預估可能要將近3個月的時間比較完足。","另外，針對無資力部分，因為法扶法第十三條有關審資力部分有法定規定，在配合法定規定的狀況之下，其實我們在實務上有一些因應作為，但是因為立法院有這樣一個更精進的要求，所以就原來的提案可不可以給我們3個月的時間，讓我們做比較完整的處理？以上，謝謝。"],["主席：這樣就是麻煩機關做文字修正之後，提過來給我們，好嗎？"],["張主任秘書智為：他只要改3個月。"],["主席：只要改3個月嗎？那我們就期限的部分改成3個月，大家有沒有意見？（無）沒有意見，依照修正後的文字通過。","進行第2案。針對第2案，有沒有提案委員要補充說明？"],["翁委員曉玲：沒有。"],["主席：那總務處人員來了嗎？請問總務處周處長，你有沒有什麼要回復的？"],["周處長傑：報告主席、各位委員，如果司法及法制委員會作成決議，我們會照司法及法制委員會的決議辦理。但是因為現在是在會期中，我們建議若是要改，是否在會期中由我們研議、規劃，然後在休會時由我們來改？沒有問題，我們會配合。"],["主席：要拖那麼久喔？"],["周處長傑：因為在前面加兩個質詢台，就會沒有走道，空間不夠。"],["傅委員崐萁：加了怎麼會沒有走道呢？"],["主席：你有沒有辦法能夠馬上修改？搬質詢台過來沒有辦法嗎？"],["周處長傑：報告主席，搬質詢台來沒有問題，我們就是架在前面這兩個空間，但是會影響到委員的進出動線。"],["鍾委員佳濱：我覺得這不是很大的工程，但是不是能夠縮短？比如說在1週內或1月內先把未來的配置圖給委員看一下，如果委員覺得OK，增加兩個質詢台是可以的，那麼對於相關配置所需要的作業時間自然會給你嘛！但照現在你說的很複雜、要等到休會期間，大家一想就會質疑就兩個質詢台，有那麼困難嗎？當然你提到要有走道等等，的確也有這個可能，那是不是先規劃、限期規劃出來，委員會覺得OK之後，再看看需要多少作業時間，趕快辦理，好不好？"],["主席：這樣可以嗎？我們是認為要修改……"],["周處長傑：那可不可以給我們兩個禮拜時間？讓我們規劃，把……"],["主席：不，畫一個圖為什麼要兩個禮拜？"],["翁委員曉玲：1個禮拜吧！1個禮拜就可以了吧？需要這麼長的時間嗎？"],["主席：因為是放兩個質詢台啊！"],["周處長傑：好，那我們就1個禮拜內把圖面提出來，下禮拜提到委員會來給委員看，這樣OK嗎？"],["傅委員崐萁：下禮拜一以前啦！"],["翁委員曉玲：應該先送到委員會辦公室，讓我們先看吧！如果還需要做決議，那委員會上就可以決議了。"],["周處長傑：沒有問題。"],["主席：請龍介委員。"],["謝委員龍介：這是很簡單的事務，怎麼會搞成這樣？就是送備詢台跟質詢台來，在還沒有定案前，你要在休會期間改，那就去改，至於這個時候就先搬過來，然後用無線麥克風就可以進行質詢跟備詢嘛！如果你怕破壞現場或動線，那就等圖通過以後，到休會時間再改，但現在立刻就可以執行了嘛！"],["主席：麻煩你們直接放在那邊，就可以馬上開始做。至於你們要弄得多漂亮，等你們的圖送出來，我們再決定嘛！但是放兩個檯子，沒有任何問題吧？難度沒有啊！"],["周處長傑：沒問題。"],["吳委員思瑤：我做個提醒，司法及法制委員會是立法院第一個率先思考要改變成這樣的方式，當初一定有決定的理由。當然，有委員提出來還是習慣原來的方式，但這件事還是要好好規劃，我沒有反對的意思，而是它絕對不只是放兩個質詢台回去，還包括質詢台上要有委員可以播放PowerPoint投影片的螢幕、包括我們的背後都要有方便官員的裝置，讓官員在答詢時也看得到我們的PPT，這都是基本配備，不只是把兩個檯子搬回去，我只是要提醒。關於國會的問政素質，這些軟硬體的提升都要基於使用者思維，就像我剛才講的userside、design thinking，都要做到，好不好？否則要是搬了兩個質詢台回來，到時候委員卻發現不好用，你們又要被罵，所以還是要考量一下。"],["謝委員龍介：如果現在在這邊PowerPoint都能看了，那你站在那邊質詢也一樣啦！"],["吳委員思瑤：沒有啦，委員，我們質詢很有經驗啦！桌子上要有monitor，其實也方便大家。"],["謝委員龍介：放在那邊我也看得很清楚。"],["吳委員思瑤：我沒有反對意見，只是希望不要說改得很簡單，最後卻覺得不好用，我只是提醒。"],["傅委員崐萁：吳委員，謝謝。","第一個，你們現在出了這麼多新聞，你要怎麼處理？你要給我注意。第二個，委員會過去怎麼樣，我們尊重，但現在委員會做了決議，你就是配合，這麼簡單的事，你為什麼要故意在這裡讓委員大家有爭執？叫你擺兩張桌子要4、5個月？有這麼麻煩嗎？就這樣搬一張桌子，10公尺也要收費，是把立法委員當「盤子」嗎？我不需要你回答，我現在是告訴你，擺兩張桌子、把無線麥克風擺上去，讓這個委員會的立委質詢時基本上要有最卑微的尊嚴，就這麼簡單！","至於上面沒有monitor，所以在這個委員會，為什麼我們在這裡質詢沒有桌前monitor，竟然可以用這麼久？我們看主席要這樣看，看那邊要這樣看，連行政院院長到立法院備詢，都是跟立委面對面！所以叫你搬兩張桌子來，就這麼簡單，瞭解了嗎？"],["周處長傑：瞭解。"],["鍾委員佳濱：主席，我可不可以一併把一些需求加以表達？因為既然委員都表達了。其實，這個委員會我也經常來，最大的困擾是在詢答過程中，我要從這邊離開時不知道從哪裡走，我從這裡走也會入鏡，我從那裡走還要先跟主席打個招呼，我們的助理要進來還必須匍匐前進，所以這個情況的確要改。如果誠如剛剛傅總召所說的，前面擺兩個質詢台，也請一併把席位分布與出入動線稍微規劃一下。不然這樣的實驗性質，其實我可以適應，最不能適應的只是怎麼進出，因為門口都在那裡啊！目前媒體報導區其實也還OK，如果前面加兩個質詢台，媒體所要的詢答畫面跟表情也都可以充分掌握，這點我理解媒體的需求，也應該滿足他們。","我希望主席在裁示時，能請他們把這些委員反映的意見一併考量，我現在的感覺就是出入不方便。以上。"],["主席：好。請總召。"],["傅委員崐萁：主席，你就直接裁示，第一個，分階段實施，1週內研究兩個桌子要怎麼弄，把它弄進來，這個先進行；第2階段是整個委員會怎麼改，那就第2階段再另外送，因為那是他所謂的會期結束才要處理。所以分兩階段來做，好不好？謝謝。"],["主席：這樣好了，放，備詢台、質詢台這個部分，可不可以在1個禮拜內處理完畢？另外就是在大概兩個禮拜內，請你們把圖簡單地畫出來，這樣時間上來不來得及？"],["周處長傑：報告主席，我們照辦。"],["主席：謝謝。","這樣的話，臨時提案第2案照案通過。","接下來請陳俊宇委員發言。"]],"agenda":{"page_end":384,"meet_id":"委員會-11-1-36-2","speakers":["吳宗憲","翁曉玲","黃國昌","沈發惠","鍾佳濱","柯建銘","羅智強","莊瑞雄","林思銘","吳思瑤","傅崐萁","謝龍介","陳俊宇","鄭天財Sra 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{\"word\": \"書\"}, {\"word\": \"長\"}, {\"word\": \"還\"}, {\"word\": \"有\", \"start\": 253.746, \"end\": 253.766, \"score\": 0.0}, {\"word\": \"我\", \"start\": 253.766, \"end\": 253.786, \"score\": 0.0}, {\"word\": \"們\"}, {\"word\": \"廳\"}, {\"word\": \"長\"}, {\"word\": \"的\", \"start\": 253.786, \"end\": 253.906, \"score\": 0.757}, {\"word\": \"釐\"}, {\"word\": \"清\", \"start\": 253.906, \"end\": 253.926, \"score\": 0.0}, {\"word\": \"我\", \"start\": 253.926, \"end\": 253.946, \"score\": 0.0}, {\"word\": \"們\"}, {\"word\": \"必\", \"start\": 253.946, \"end\": 253.966, \"score\": 0.0}, {\"word\": \"須\"}, {\"word\": \"把\", \"start\": 253.966, \"end\": 254.106, \"score\": 0.857}, {\"word\": \"這\"}, {\"word\": \"個\"}, {\"word\": \"憲\"}, {\"word\": \"政\", \"start\": 254.106, \"end\": 254.186, \"score\": 0.32}, {\"word\": \"運\"}, {\"word\": \"作\", \"start\": 254.186, \"end\": 254.406, \"score\": 0.909}, {\"word\": \"的\", \"start\": 254.406, \"end\": 254.506, \"score\": 0.63}, {\"word\": 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\"end\": 782.533, \"score\": 0.741}, {\"word\": \"了\", \"start\": 782.533, \"end\": 782.653, \"score\": 0.604}, {\"word\": \"五\", \"start\": 782.653, \"end\": 782.894, \"score\": 0.785}, {\"word\": \"年\", \"start\": 782.894, \"end\": 783.554, \"score\": 0.845}, {\"word\": \"我\", \"start\": 783.554, \"end\": 783.715, \"score\": 0.793}, {\"word\": \"做\", \"start\": 783.715, \"end\": 784.415, \"score\": 0.715}, {\"word\": \"過\"}, {\"word\": \"調\"}, {\"word\": \"查\", \"start\": 784.415, \"end\": 785.156, \"score\": 0.862}, {\"word\": \"所\", \"start\": 785.156, \"end\": 785.296, \"score\": 0.935}, {\"word\": \"以\", \"start\": 785.296, \"end\": 785.637, \"score\": 0.699}, {\"word\": \"我\", \"start\": 785.637, \"end\": 785.837, \"score\": 0.823}, {\"word\": \"沒\", \"start\": 785.837, \"end\": 786.017, \"score\": 0.795}, {\"word\": \"有\", \"start\": 786.017, \"end\": 786.898, \"score\": 0.769}, {\"word\": \"苛\"}, {\"word\": \"責\"}, {\"word\": \"現\"}, {\"word\": \"在\", \"start\": 786.898, \"end\": 787.399, \"score\": 0.799}, {\"word\": \"馬\"}, {\"word\": \"上\", \"start\": 787.399, \"end\": 787.679, \"score\": 0.835}, {\"word\": \"就\", \"start\": 787.679, \"end\": 787.839, \"score\": 0.767}, {\"word\": \"要\", \"start\": 787.839, \"end\": 787.859, \"score\": 1.0}, {\"word\": \"達\"}, {\"word\": \"標\"}, {\"word\": \"主\", \"start\": 788.9, \"end\": 788.92, \"score\": 0.0}, {\"word\": \"席\", \"start\": 788.92, \"end\": 788.94, \"score\": 0.0}], \"language\": \"zh\"}","srt":"1\n00:00:00,069 --> 00:00:00,389\n吳思瑤委員發言\n\n2\n00:00:24,653 --> 00:00:28,357\n國民法官上路成效徐欣檢討﹚司法人員離職潮5年新高﹚改善方案在哪裏﹚\n\n3\n00:00:41,112 --> 00:00:42,212\n請就憲法的專業來回答這個問題\n\n4\n00:01:05,236 --> 00:01:24,774\n您可以大聲一點那一天我是看會上主席是有提到這個是行政院跟立法院之間的一個關係所以呢再具體一點質詢是上對下的關係嗎就您的憲法素養您是司法院的秘書長\n\n5\n00:01:26,107 --> 00:01:29,231\n那應該是兩院之間各本於主權\n\n6\n00:01:34,642 --> 00:01:55,449\n依據我們非常多的大法官事件都告訴了我們checkandbalance憲法機關之間是權力分立平等相為的我想在新國會上路的時候我們作為憲法的解釋機關也應當來捍衛這樣子的權力分立的重要的原則跟價值\n\n7\n00:01:57,230 --> 00:02:14,663\n第2個問題也是今天也正在此時此刻我剛剛在隔壁的內政委員會那我赫然發現有在野黨委員原本有提出一個臨時提案但目前是暫擱但是也是有憲法方面是否合宜的問題想就教於您\n\n8\n00:02:17,205 --> 00:02:31,126\n針對這個驚嚇海域的意外事故那有在野黨的委員在立法院提案要成立調閱專案小組也就是要有以立法權來介入來進行一個\n\n9\n00:02:31,887 --> 00:02:31,907\n吳思瑤議員\n\n10\n00:02:46,544 --> 00:02:48,406\n關於立法院的這個調查前\n\n11\n00:03:05,186 --> 00:03:10,229\n那之前在釋字,大法官釋字585號、325號還有613、633還有739號都有做一些說明\n\n12\n00:03:21,937 --> 00:03:47,071\n那所以回應我的問題如果說今天這個金門意外的事件非常不幸我們當然希望協助釐清真相立法委員本於職責來提出對於這個海巡弟兄的裝備要提升啦或是在執法過程當中的一些協力精進這當然是立法委員去監督的範圍跟事項但如果是要在偵辦中的案件來成立調閱小組到底可以嗎\n\n13\n00:03:52,625 --> 00:04:11,725\n因為我剛剛有向委員說明就是關於那個國會調查前這一部分先前有有非常多的解釋好我在這裡就因為我認為非常需要在我們司法法制委員會就憲法的運作原則非常清楚的\n\n14\n00:04:12,265 --> 00:04:14,966\n透過我們司法院的專業人員秘書長還有我們廳長的釐清我們必須把這個憲政運作的原則搞清楚否則國會會鬧了笑話\n\n15\n00:04:25,475 --> 00:04:50,502\n以釋字第729號非常清楚地解釋了檢查機關代表國家進行犯罪之偵查與追溯基於權力分立與制衡原則且為保障檢查機關獨立行使職權對於偵查中之案件立法院自不得向其調閱相關卷證換言之聽講您點頭嗎\n\n16\n00:04:52,162 --> 00:04:53,203\n根據釋字729號就如同剛剛委員所說明的\n\n17\n00:05:14,998 --> 00:05:16,780\n謝謝聽到您的說明所以非常清楚\n\n18\n00:05:34,921 --> 00:05:59,947\n立法院僅能在制度、預算、法律等事項對檢查機關進行通案監督應無介入各案調閱、偵查、卷證之餘地這個是我們729號的釋字內容我們內政委員會的這個提案目前應當是沒有處理我也希望在野黨的委員聽到我們今天透過司法院的秘書長還有我們憲法法庭的廳長\n\n19\n00:06:02,648 --> 00:06:17,881\n再一次為我們清楚說明大法官釋字729號基本的精神應當要懸崖勒馬我們不樂見任何的政治力來介入司法案件我們也不希望粗糙的國會特徵組就這樣出現了嗎\n\n20\n00:06:21,903 --> 00:06:45,160\n為現非常清楚謝謝您的回應我一定要在這裡利用我質詢的時間來再一次釐清這樣嚴肅的憲法分立我們應當遵守的原則謝謝您的回答好那我們來看看我的第二頁質詢我手上拿的是臺北書展我去看了親子天下這個攤位我跟陳建仁院長一起去的這個\n\n21\n00:06:46,841 --> 00:07:10,776\n小大人的公民素養課這一本非常好而裡頭呢針對我們最新的國民法官的制度也在這樣一個對於學生的公民素養的科普很清楚的為我們釐清了國民法官就是為了拉近讓公民有平等參與的權利我們去去除過去法官高高在上\n\n22\n00:07:11,636 --> 00:07:32,658\n我們希望打造親近友善讓公民也可以成為司法審判的協力者這是非常好的你們可以來一起推推這本書那我們的國民法官法上路我們在審查法案我也都參與了那軟硬體軟體就是修法硬體的部分我們來檢視下一頁\n\n23\n00:07:35,376 --> 00:07:58,248\n我們跟設計研究院攜手合作打造了國民法官的法庭設計我跟秘書長說明其實臺灣的設計研究院是吳思瑤本席努力催生的我希望能夠透過designthinking在任何的公部門的空間規劃能夠有使用者的思維可以達到我們要的一個政策目的我們透過設計導入\n\n24\n00:08:00,249 --> 00:08:24,082\n導入使用者思維能夠讓國民法官法庭重新redesign目前已經改造了21家地方法院28間國民法官的法庭這是before改造前的高雄地方法院南投地方法院新北地方法院就是高高在上燈光又不明亮感覺又很遙遠\n\n25\n00:08:25,303 --> 00:08:27,968\n人民對於司法的禁用是完全被剝奪或是他覺得有相當高的一個距離感\n\n26\n00:08:32,881 --> 00:08:57,742\n那after呢我們看下一頁成功改造之後我們看到了一個公開透明的空間減少壓迫感的空間而且是共融式的我們所有的身心障礙者也可以使用無礙更方便我們各地徵選來的國民法官都有平等的權利來協助我們新的司法審判的制度那使用過後現在成效怎麼樣\n\n27\n00:08:58,752 --> 00:09:06,007\n秘書長,你們覺得這樣一個硬體的導入有沒有有助於我們國民法官心智的上路?\n\n28\n00:09:07,862 --> 00:09:13,963\n目前的反應應該都非常好。我們目前是28間改造完成,有下一階段要改造的計畫嗎?\n\n29\n00:09:31,963 --> 00:09:35,144\n司法院秘書長列席說明立法院第11屆第1會期司法院秘書長列席說明立法院第11屆第1會期\n\n30\n00:09:51,684 --> 00:09:56,029\n您稍後提供書面資料,我們下一個階段的designthinking導入我們的司法制度,我會持續追蹤。\n\n31\n00:10:12,367 --> 00:10:12,507\n李慧琼議員\n\n32\n00:10:32,626 --> 00:10:53,537\n國民法官法庭上路我再佔用一點點時間不好意思剛剛前面幾位委員都檢視了他的執行成效我也知道就在上週我們也邀請了日本的專家來分享了日本的刑事訴訟制度跟他們裁判員制度分享給我們到我手上的資料是原定要2023年去年要修建300件\n\n33\n00:10:54,918 --> 00:11:12,916\n那實際的收件是108件但審結只有16件只有14.8%換言之他的收件數也好或是審結數都偏低那剛剛有幾位委員提到這個國民法官的報導率不到一半\n\n34\n00:11:13,937 --> 00:11:13,957\n委員會議員\n\n35\n00:11:34,804 --> 00:11:41,307\n我們的辯護量能不足,國民法官的報導率不高,這都是橫在眼前的挑戰,包括我們眾嘉賓昭偉剛剛也提出來,你們是幾月份會提出一個執行一年的報告,檢討報告?\n\n36\n00:12:03,178 --> 00:12:26,295\n我們最終的年度的總結報告是在今年的9月份會提出來那順便回應委員剛剛所關注的問題就於為什麼審結案件只有16件那我可以跟我委員報告一下我們事實上也做過分析因為在前半年112年的前半年的起訴案件量是真的是比較少到了7月之後\n\n37\n00:12:27,316 --> 00:12:52,443\n檢察官慎重起訴是先詳細的偵查之後慢慢的起訴上來那經過一個準備程序的期間那真的進到選任程序在最後進到審理程序所以大部分都集中在下半年才出現那目前來講目前的收案量已經到22件了所以相關的案件量的成長跟犯罪數來講應該是回復到一般的正常水準沒有持那個起訴遞言的問題\n\n38\n00:12:53,203 --> 00:13:07,859\n我們就是持續的來精進其實就日本的制度2009上路之後他們也是花了好幾年公民的滿意度才提升他們甚至花了五年我做過調查所以我沒有苛責現在馬上就要達標\n\n39\n00:13:08,900 --> 00:13:08,940\n主席\n\n","tsv":"start\tend\ttext\n69\t389\t吳思瑤委員發言\n24653\t28357\t國民法官上路成效徐欣檢討﹚司法人員離職潮5年新高﹚改善方案在哪裏﹚\n41112\t42212\t請就憲法的專業來回答這個問題\n65236\t84774\t您可以大聲一點那一天我是看會上主席是有提到這個是行政院跟立法院之間的一個關係所以呢再具體一點質詢是上對下的關係嗎就您的憲法素養您是司法院的秘書長\n86107\t89231\t那應該是兩院之間 各本於主權\n94642\t115449\t依據我們非常多的大法官事件都告訴了我們check and balance 憲法機關之間是權力分立平等相為的我想在新國會上路的時候我們作為憲法的解釋機關也應當來捍衛這樣子的權力分立的重要的原則跟價值\n117230\t134663\t第2個問題也是今天也正在此時此刻我剛剛在隔壁的內政委員會那我赫然發現有在野黨委員原本有提出一個臨時提案但目前是暫擱但是也是有憲法方面是否合宜的問題想就教於您\n137205\t151126\t針對這個驚嚇海域的意外事故那有在野黨的委員在立法院提案要成立調閱專案小組也就是要有以立法權來介入來進行一個\n151887\t151907\t吳思瑤議員\n166544\t168406\t關於立法院的這個調查前\n185186\t190229\t那之前在釋字,大法官釋字585號、325號還有613、633還有739號都有做一些說明\n201937\t227071\t那所以回應我的問題如果說今天這個金門意外的事件非常不幸我們當然希望協助釐清真相立法委員本於職責來提出對於這個海巡弟兄的裝備要提升啦或是在執法過程當中的一些協力精進這當然是立法委員去監督的範圍跟事項但如果是要在偵辦中的案件來成立調閱小組到底可以嗎\n232625\t251725\t因為我剛剛有向委員說明就是關於那個國會調查前這一部分先前有有非常多的解釋好我在這裡就因為我認為非常需要在我們司法法制委員會就憲法的運作原則非常清楚的\n252265\t254966\t透過我們司法院的專業人員秘書長還有我們廳長的釐清我們必須把這個憲政運作的原則搞清楚否則國會會鬧了笑話\n265475\t290502\t以釋字第729號非常清楚地解釋了檢查機關代表國家進行犯罪之偵查與追溯基於權力分立與制衡原則且為保障檢查機關獨立行使職權對於偵查中之案件立法院自不得向其調閱相關卷證換言之聽講您點頭嗎\n292162\t293203\t根據釋字729號就如同剛剛委員所說明的\n314998\t316780\t謝謝聽到您的說明所以非常清楚\n334921\t359947\t立法院僅能在制度、預算、法律等事項對檢查機關進行通案監督應無介入各案調閱、偵查、卷證之餘地這個是我們729號的釋字內容我們內政委員會的這個提案目前應當是沒有處理我也希望在野黨的委員聽到我們今天透過司法院的秘書長還有我們憲法法庭的廳長\n362648\t377881\t再一次為我們清楚說明大法官釋字729號基本的精神應當要懸崖勒馬我們不樂見任何的政治力來介入司法案件我們也不希望粗糙的國會特徵組就這樣出現了嗎\n381903\t405160\t為現非常清楚謝謝您的回應我一定要在這裡利用我質詢的時間來再一次釐清這樣嚴肅的憲法分立我們應當遵守的原則謝謝您的回答好那我們來看看我的第二頁質詢我手上拿的是臺北書展我去看了親子天下這個攤位我跟陳建仁院長一起去的這個\n406841\t430776\t小大人的公民素養課這一本非常好而裡頭呢針對我們最新的國民法官的制度也在這樣一個對於學生的公民素養的科普很清楚的為我們釐清了國民法官就是為了拉近讓公民有平等參與的權利我們去去除過去法官高高在上\n431636\t452658\t我們希望打造親近友善讓公民也可以成為司法審判的協力者這是非常好的你們可以來一起推推這本書那我們的國民法官法上路我們在審查法案我也都參與了那軟硬體軟體就是修法硬體的部分我們來檢視下一頁\n455376\t478248\t我們跟設計研究院攜手合作打造了國民法官的法庭設計我跟秘書長說明其實臺灣的設計研究院是吳思瑤本席努力催生的我希望能夠透過design thinking在任何的公部門的空間規劃能夠有使用者的思維可以達到我們要的一個政策目的我們透過設計導入\n480249\t504082\t導入使用者思維能夠讓國民法官法庭重新redesign目前已經改造了21家地方法院28間國民法官的法庭這是before改造前的高雄地方法院南投地方法院新北地方法院就是高高在上燈光又不明亮感覺又很遙遠\n505303\t507968\t人民對於司法的禁用是完全被剝奪或是他覺得有相當高的一個距離感\n512881\t537742\t那after呢我們看下一頁成功改造之後我們看到了一個公開透明的空間減少壓迫感的空間而且是共融式的我們所有的身心障礙者也可以使用無礙更方便我們各地徵選來的國民法官都有平等的權利來協助我們新的司法審判的制度那使用過後現在成效怎麼樣\n538752\t546007\t秘書長,你們覺得這樣一個硬體的導入有沒有有助於我們國民法官心智的上路?\n547862\t553963\t目前的反應應該都非常好。我們目前是28間改造完成, 有下一階段要改造的計畫嗎?\n571963\t575144\t司法院秘書長列席說明立法院第11屆第1會期司法院秘書長列席說明立法院第11屆第1會期\n591684\t596029\t您稍後提供書面資料,我們下一個階段的design thinking導入我們的司法制度,我會持續追蹤。\n612367\t612507\t李慧琼議員\n632626\t653537\t國民法官法庭上路我再佔用一點點時間不好意思剛剛前面幾位委員都檢視了他的執行成效我也知道就在上週我們也邀請了日本的專家來分享了日本的刑事訴訟制度跟他們裁判員制度分享給我們到我手上的資料是原定要2023年去年要修建300件\n654918\t672916\t那實際的收件是108件但審結只有16件只有14.8%換言之他的收件數也好或是審結數都偏低那剛剛有幾位委員提到這個國民法官的報導率不到一半\n673937\t673957\t委員會議員\n694804\t701307\t我們的辯護量能不足,國民法官的報導率不高,這都是橫在眼前的挑戰,包括我們眾嘉賓昭偉剛剛也提出來,你們是幾月份會提出一個執行一年的報告,檢討報告?\n723178\t746295\t我們最終的年度的總結報告是在今年的9月份會提出來那順便回應委員剛剛所關注的問題就於為什麼審結案件只有16件那我可以跟我委員報告一下我們事實上也做過分析因為在前半年112年的前半年的起訴案件量是真的是比較少到了7月之後\n747316\t772443\t檢察官慎重起訴是先詳細的偵查之後慢慢的起訴上來那經過一個準備程序的期間那真的進到選任程序在最後進到審理程序所以大部分都集中在下半年才出現那目前來講目前的收案量已經到22件了所以相關的案件量的成長跟犯罪數來講應該是回復到一般的正常水準沒有持那個起訴遞言的問題\n773203\t787859\t我們就是持續的來精進其實就日本的制度2009上路之後他們也是花了好幾年公民的滿意度才提升他們甚至花了五年我做過調查所以我沒有苛責現在馬上就要達標\n788900\t788940\t主席\n","txt":"吳思瑤委員發言\n國民法官上路成效徐欣檢討﹚司法人員離職潮5年新高﹚改善方案在哪裏﹚\n請就憲法的專業來回答這個問題\n您可以大聲一點那一天我是看會上主席是有提到這個是行政院跟立法院之間的一個關係所以呢再具體一點質詢是上對下的關係嗎就您的憲法素養您是司法院的秘書長\n那應該是兩院之間 各本於主權\n依據我們非常多的大法官事件都告訴了我們check and balance 憲法機關之間是權力分立平等相為的我想在新國會上路的時候我們作為憲法的解釋機關也應當來捍衛這樣子的權力分立的重要的原則跟價值\n第2個問題也是今天也正在此時此刻我剛剛在隔壁的內政委員會那我赫然發現有在野黨委員原本有提出一個臨時提案但目前是暫擱但是也是有憲法方面是否合宜的問題想就教於您\n針對這個驚嚇海域的意外事故那有在野黨的委員在立法院提案要成立調閱專案小組也就是要有以立法權來介入來進行一個\n吳思瑤議員\n關於立法院的這個調查前\n那之前在釋字,大法官釋字585號、325號還有613、633還有739號都有做一些說明\n那所以回應我的問題如果說今天這個金門意外的事件非常不幸我們當然希望協助釐清真相立法委員本於職責來提出對於這個海巡弟兄的裝備要提升啦或是在執法過程當中的一些協力精進這當然是立法委員去監督的範圍跟事項但如果是要在偵辦中的案件來成立調閱小組到底可以嗎\n因為我剛剛有向委員說明就是關於那個國會調查前這一部分先前有有非常多的解釋好我在這裡就因為我認為非常需要在我們司法法制委員會就憲法的運作原則非常清楚的\n透過我們司法院的專業人員秘書長還有我們廳長的釐清我們必須把這個憲政運作的原則搞清楚否則國會會鬧了笑話\n以釋字第729號非常清楚地解釋了檢查機關代表國家進行犯罪之偵查與追溯基於權力分立與制衡原則且為保障檢查機關獨立行使職權對於偵查中之案件立法院自不得向其調閱相關卷證換言之聽講您點頭嗎\n根據釋字729號就如同剛剛委員所說明的\n謝謝聽到您的說明所以非常清楚\n立法院僅能在制度、預算、法律等事項對檢查機關進行通案監督應無介入各案調閱、偵查、卷證之餘地這個是我們729號的釋字內容我們內政委員會的這個提案目前應當是沒有處理我也希望在野黨的委員聽到我們今天透過司法院的秘書長還有我們憲法法庭的廳長\n再一次為我們清楚說明大法官釋字729號基本的精神應當要懸崖勒馬我們不樂見任何的政治力來介入司法案件我們也不希望粗糙的國會特徵組就這樣出現了嗎\n為現非常清楚謝謝您的回應我一定要在這裡利用我質詢的時間來再一次釐清這樣嚴肅的憲法分立我們應當遵守的原則謝謝您的回答好那我們來看看我的第二頁質詢我手上拿的是臺北書展我去看了親子天下這個攤位我跟陳建仁院長一起去的這個\n小大人的公民素養課這一本非常好而裡頭呢針對我們最新的國民法官的制度也在這樣一個對於學生的公民素養的科普很清楚的為我們釐清了國民法官就是為了拉近讓公民有平等參與的權利我們去去除過去法官高高在上\n我們希望打造親近友善讓公民也可以成為司法審判的協力者這是非常好的你們可以來一起推推這本書那我們的國民法官法上路我們在審查法案我也都參與了那軟硬體軟體就是修法硬體的部分我們來檢視下一頁\n我們跟設計研究院攜手合作打造了國民法官的法庭設計我跟秘書長說明其實臺灣的設計研究院是吳思瑤本席努力催生的我希望能夠透過design thinking在任何的公部門的空間規劃能夠有使用者的思維可以達到我們要的一個政策目的我們透過設計導入\n導入使用者思維能夠讓國民法官法庭重新redesign目前已經改造了21家地方法院28間國民法官的法庭這是before改造前的高雄地方法院南投地方法院新北地方法院就是高高在上燈光又不明亮感覺又很遙遠\n人民對於司法的禁用是完全被剝奪或是他覺得有相當高的一個距離感\n那after呢我們看下一頁成功改造之後我們看到了一個公開透明的空間減少壓迫感的空間而且是共融式的我們所有的身心障礙者也可以使用無礙更方便我們各地徵選來的國民法官都有平等的權利來協助我們新的司法審判的制度那使用過後現在成效怎麼樣\n秘書長,你們覺得這樣一個硬體的導入有沒有有助於我們國民法官心智的上路?\n目前的反應應該都非常好。我們目前是28間改造完成, 有下一階段要改造的計畫嗎?\n司法院秘書長列席說明立法院第11屆第1會期司法院秘書長列席說明立法院第11屆第1會期\n您稍後提供書面資料,我們下一個階段的design thinking導入我們的司法制度,我會持續追蹤。\n李慧琼議員\n國民法官法庭上路我再佔用一點點時間不好意思剛剛前面幾位委員都檢視了他的執行成效我也知道就在上週我們也邀請了日本的專家來分享了日本的刑事訴訟制度跟他們裁判員制度分享給我們到我手上的資料是原定要2023年去年要修建300件\n那實際的收件是108件但審結只有16件只有14.8%換言之他的收件數也好或是審結數都偏低那剛剛有幾位委員提到這個國民法官的報導率不到一半\n委員會議員\n我們的辯護量能不足,國民法官的報導率不高,這都是橫在眼前的挑戰,包括我們眾嘉賓昭偉剛剛也提出來,你們是幾月份會提出一個執行一年的報告,檢討報告?\n我們最終的年度的總結報告是在今年的9月份會提出來那順便回應委員剛剛所關注的問題就於為什麼審結案件只有16件那我可以跟我委員報告一下我們事實上也做過分析因為在前半年112年的前半年的起訴案件量是真的是比較少到了7月之後\n檢察官慎重起訴是先詳細的偵查之後慢慢的起訴上來那經過一個準備程序的期間那真的進到選任程序在最後進到審理程序所以大部分都集中在下半年才出現那目前來講目前的收案量已經到22件了所以相關的案件量的成長跟犯罪數來講應該是回復到一般的正常水準沒有持那個起訴遞言的問題\n我們就是持續的來精進其實就日本的制度2009上路之後他們也是花了好幾年公民的滿意度才提升他們甚至花了五年我做過調查所以我沒有苛責現在馬上就要達標\n主席\n","vtt":"WEBVTT\n\n00:00.069 --> 00:00.389\n吳思瑤委員發言\n\n00:24.653 --> 00:28.357\n國民法官上路成效徐欣檢討﹚司法人員離職潮5年新高﹚改善方案在哪裏﹚\n\n00:41.112 --> 00:42.212\n請就憲法的專業來回答這個問題\n\n01:05.236 --> 01:24.774\n您可以大聲一點那一天我是看會上主席是有提到這個是行政院跟立法院之間的一個關係所以呢再具體一點質詢是上對下的關係嗎就您的憲法素養您是司法院的秘書長\n\n01:26.107 --> 01:29.231\n那應該是兩院之間各本於主權\n\n01:34.642 --> 01:55.449\n依據我們非常多的大法官事件都告訴了我們checkandbalance憲法機關之間是權力分立平等相為的我想在新國會上路的時候我們作為憲法的解釋機關也應當來捍衛這樣子的權力分立的重要的原則跟價值\n\n01:57.230 --> 02:14.663\n第2個問題也是今天也正在此時此刻我剛剛在隔壁的內政委員會那我赫然發現有在野黨委員原本有提出一個臨時提案但目前是暫擱但是也是有憲法方面是否合宜的問題想就教於您\n\n02:17.205 --> 02:31.126\n針對這個驚嚇海域的意外事故那有在野黨的委員在立法院提案要成立調閱專案小組也就是要有以立法權來介入來進行一個\n\n02:31.887 --> 02:31.907\n吳思瑤議員\n\n02:46.544 --> 02:48.406\n關於立法院的這個調查前\n\n03:05.186 --> 03:10.229\n那之前在釋字,大法官釋字585號、325號還有613、633還有739號都有做一些說明\n\n03:21.937 --> 03:47.071\n那所以回應我的問題如果說今天這個金門意外的事件非常不幸我們當然希望協助釐清真相立法委員本於職責來提出對於這個海巡弟兄的裝備要提升啦或是在執法過程當中的一些協力精進這當然是立法委員去監督的範圍跟事項但如果是要在偵辦中的案件來成立調閱小組到底可以嗎\n\n03:52.625 --> 04:11.725\n因為我剛剛有向委員說明就是關於那個國會調查前這一部分先前有有非常多的解釋好我在這裡就因為我認為非常需要在我們司法法制委員會就憲法的運作原則非常清楚的\n\n04:12.265 --> 04:14.966\n透過我們司法院的專業人員秘書長還有我們廳長的釐清我們必須把這個憲政運作的原則搞清楚否則國會會鬧了笑話\n\n04:25.475 --> 04:50.502\n以釋字第729號非常清楚地解釋了檢查機關代表國家進行犯罪之偵查與追溯基於權力分立與制衡原則且為保障檢查機關獨立行使職權對於偵查中之案件立法院自不得向其調閱相關卷證換言之聽講您點頭嗎\n\n04:52.162 --> 04:53.203\n根據釋字729號就如同剛剛委員所說明的\n\n05:14.998 --> 05:16.780\n謝謝聽到您的說明所以非常清楚\n\n05:34.921 --> 05:59.947\n立法院僅能在制度、預算、法律等事項對檢查機關進行通案監督應無介入各案調閱、偵查、卷證之餘地這個是我們729號的釋字內容我們內政委員會的這個提案目前應當是沒有處理我也希望在野黨的委員聽到我們今天透過司法院的秘書長還有我們憲法法庭的廳長\n\n06:02.648 --> 06:17.881\n再一次為我們清楚說明大法官釋字729號基本的精神應當要懸崖勒馬我們不樂見任何的政治力來介入司法案件我們也不希望粗糙的國會特徵組就這樣出現了嗎\n\n06:21.903 --> 06:45.160\n為現非常清楚謝謝您的回應我一定要在這裡利用我質詢的時間來再一次釐清這樣嚴肅的憲法分立我們應當遵守的原則謝謝您的回答好那我們來看看我的第二頁質詢我手上拿的是臺北書展我去看了親子天下這個攤位我跟陳建仁院長一起去的這個\n\n06:46.841 --> 07:10.776\n小大人的公民素養課這一本非常好而裡頭呢針對我們最新的國民法官的制度也在這樣一個對於學生的公民素養的科普很清楚的為我們釐清了國民法官就是為了拉近讓公民有平等參與的權利我們去去除過去法官高高在上\n\n07:11.636 --> 07:32.658\n我們希望打造親近友善讓公民也可以成為司法審判的協力者這是非常好的你們可以來一起推推這本書那我們的國民法官法上路我們在審查法案我也都參與了那軟硬體軟體就是修法硬體的部分我們來檢視下一頁\n\n07:35.376 --> 07:58.248\n我們跟設計研究院攜手合作打造了國民法官的法庭設計我跟秘書長說明其實臺灣的設計研究院是吳思瑤本席努力催生的我希望能夠透過designthinking在任何的公部門的空間規劃能夠有使用者的思維可以達到我們要的一個政策目的我們透過設計導入\n\n08:00.249 --> 08:24.082\n導入使用者思維能夠讓國民法官法庭重新redesign目前已經改造了21家地方法院28間國民法官的法庭這是before改造前的高雄地方法院南投地方法院新北地方法院就是高高在上燈光又不明亮感覺又很遙遠\n\n08:25.303 --> 08:27.968\n人民對於司法的禁用是完全被剝奪或是他覺得有相當高的一個距離感\n\n08:32.881 --> 08:57.742\n那after呢我們看下一頁成功改造之後我們看到了一個公開透明的空間減少壓迫感的空間而且是共融式的我們所有的身心障礙者也可以使用無礙更方便我們各地徵選來的國民法官都有平等的權利來協助我們新的司法審判的制度那使用過後現在成效怎麼樣\n\n08:58.752 --> 09:06.007\n秘書長,你們覺得這樣一個硬體的導入有沒有有助於我們國民法官心智的上路?\n\n09:07.862 --> 09:13.963\n目前的反應應該都非常好。我們目前是28間改造完成,有下一階段要改造的計畫嗎?\n\n09:31.963 --> 09:35.144\n司法院秘書長列席說明立法院第11屆第1會期司法院秘書長列席說明立法院第11屆第1會期\n\n09:51.684 --> 09:56.029\n您稍後提供書面資料,我們下一個階段的designthinking導入我們的司法制度,我會持續追蹤。\n\n10:12.367 --> 10:12.507\n李慧琼議員\n\n10:32.626 --> 10:53.537\n國民法官法庭上路我再佔用一點點時間不好意思剛剛前面幾位委員都檢視了他的執行成效我也知道就在上週我們也邀請了日本的專家來分享了日本的刑事訴訟制度跟他們裁判員制度分享給我們到我手上的資料是原定要2023年去年要修建300件\n\n10:54.918 --> 11:12.916\n那實際的收件是108件但審結只有16件只有14.8%換言之他的收件數也好或是審結數都偏低那剛剛有幾位委員提到這個國民法官的報導率不到一半\n\n11:13.937 --> 11:13.957\n委員會議員\n\n11:34.804 --> 11:41.307\n我們的辯護量能不足,國民法官的報導率不高,這都是橫在眼前的挑戰,包括我們眾嘉賓昭偉剛剛也提出來,你們是幾月份會提出一個執行一年的報告,檢討報告?\n\n12:03.178 --> 12:26.295\n我們最終的年度的總結報告是在今年的9月份會提出來那順便回應委員剛剛所關注的問題就於為什麼審結案件只有16件那我可以跟我委員報告一下我們事實上也做過分析因為在前半年112年的前半年的起訴案件量是真的是比較少到了7月之後\n\n12:27.316 --> 12:52.443\n檢察官慎重起訴是先詳細的偵查之後慢慢的起訴上來那經過一個準備程序的期間那真的進到選任程序在最後進到審理程序所以大部分都集中在下半年才出現那目前來講目前的收案量已經到22件了所以相關的案件量的成長跟犯罪數來講應該是回復到一般的正常水準沒有持那個起訴遞言的問題\n\n12:53.203 --> 13:07.859\n我們就是持續的來精進其實就日本的制度2009上路之後他們也是花了好幾年公民的滿意度才提升他們甚至花了五年我做過調查所以我沒有苛責現在馬上就要達標\n\n13:08.900 --> 13:08.940\n主席\n\n","segments":[{"start":0.069,"end":0.389,"text":"吳思瑤委員發言"},{"start":24.653,"end":28.357,"text":"國民法官上路成效徐欣檢討﹚司法人員離職潮5年新高﹚改善方案在哪裏﹚"},{"start":41.112,"end":42.212,"text":"請就憲法的專業來回答這個問題"},{"start":65.236,"end":84.774,"text":"您可以大聲一點那一天我是看會上主席是有提到這個是行政院跟立法院之間的一個關係所以呢再具體一點質詢是上對下的關係嗎就您的憲法素養您是司法院的秘書長"},{"start":86.107,"end":89.231,"text":"那應該是兩院之間 各本於主權"},{"start":94.642,"end":115.449,"text":"依據我們非常多的大法官事件都告訴了我們check and balance 憲法機關之間是權力分立平等相為的我想在新國會上路的時候我們作為憲法的解釋機關也應當來捍衛這樣子的權力分立的重要的原則跟價值"},{"start":117.23,"end":134.663,"text":"第2個問題也是今天也正在此時此刻我剛剛在隔壁的內政委員會那我赫然發現有在野黨委員原本有提出一個臨時提案但目前是暫擱但是也是有憲法方面是否合宜的問題想就教於您"},{"start":137.205,"end":151.126,"text":"針對這個驚嚇海域的意外事故那有在野黨的委員在立法院提案要成立調閱專案小組也就是要有以立法權來介入來進行一個"},{"start":151.887,"end":151.907,"text":"吳思瑤議員"},{"start":166.544,"end":168.406,"text":"關於立法院的這個調查前"},{"start":185.186,"end":190.229,"text":"那之前在釋字,大法官釋字585號、325號還有613、633還有739號都有做一些說明"},{"start":201.937,"end":227.071,"text":"那所以回應我的問題如果說今天這個金門意外的事件非常不幸我們當然希望協助釐清真相立法委員本於職責來提出對於這個海巡弟兄的裝備要提升啦或是在執法過程當中的一些協力精進這當然是立法委員去監督的範圍跟事項但如果是要在偵辦中的案件來成立調閱小組到底可以嗎"},{"start":232.625,"end":251.725,"text":"因為我剛剛有向委員說明就是關於那個國會調查前這一部分先前有有非常多的解釋好我在這裡就因為我認為非常需要在我們司法法制委員會就憲法的運作原則非常清楚的"},{"start":252.265,"end":254.966,"text":"透過我們司法院的專業人員秘書長還有我們廳長的釐清我們必須把這個憲政運作的原則搞清楚否則國會會鬧了笑話"},{"start":265.475,"end":290.502,"text":"以釋字第729號非常清楚地解釋了檢查機關代表國家進行犯罪之偵查與追溯基於權力分立與制衡原則且為保障檢查機關獨立行使職權對於偵查中之案件立法院自不得向其調閱相關卷證換言之聽講您點頭嗎"},{"start":292.162,"end":293.203,"text":"根據釋字729號就如同剛剛委員所說明的"},{"start":314.998,"end":316.78,"text":"謝謝聽到您的說明所以非常清楚"},{"start":334.921,"end":359.947,"text":"立法院僅能在制度、預算、法律等事項對檢查機關進行通案監督應無介入各案調閱、偵查、卷證之餘地這個是我們729號的釋字內容我們內政委員會的這個提案目前應當是沒有處理我也希望在野黨的委員聽到我們今天透過司法院的秘書長還有我們憲法法庭的廳長"},{"start":362.648,"end":377.881,"text":"再一次為我們清楚說明大法官釋字729號基本的精神應當要懸崖勒馬我們不樂見任何的政治力來介入司法案件我們也不希望粗糙的國會特徵組就這樣出現了嗎"},{"start":381.903,"end":405.16,"text":"為現非常清楚謝謝您的回應我一定要在這裡利用我質詢的時間來再一次釐清這樣嚴肅的憲法分立我們應當遵守的原則謝謝您的回答好那我們來看看我的第二頁質詢我手上拿的是臺北書展我去看了親子天下這個攤位我跟陳建仁院長一起去的這個"},{"start":406.841,"end":430.776,"text":"小大人的公民素養課這一本非常好而裡頭呢針對我們最新的國民法官的制度也在這樣一個對於學生的公民素養的科普很清楚的為我們釐清了國民法官就是為了拉近讓公民有平等參與的權利我們去去除過去法官高高在上"},{"start":431.636,"end":452.658,"text":"我們希望打造親近友善讓公民也可以成為司法審判的協力者這是非常好的你們可以來一起推推這本書那我們的國民法官法上路我們在審查法案我也都參與了那軟硬體軟體就是修法硬體的部分我們來檢視下一頁"},{"start":455.376,"end":478.248,"text":"我們跟設計研究院攜手合作打造了國民法官的法庭設計我跟秘書長說明其實臺灣的設計研究院是吳思瑤本席努力催生的我希望能夠透過design thinking在任何的公部門的空間規劃能夠有使用者的思維可以達到我們要的一個政策目的我們透過設計導入"},{"start":480.249,"end":504.082,"text":"導入使用者思維能夠讓國民法官法庭重新redesign目前已經改造了21家地方法院28間國民法官的法庭這是before改造前的高雄地方法院南投地方法院新北地方法院就是高高在上燈光又不明亮感覺又很遙遠"},{"start":505.303,"end":507.968,"text":"人民對於司法的禁用是完全被剝奪或是他覺得有相當高的一個距離感"},{"start":512.881,"end":537.742,"text":"那after呢我們看下一頁成功改造之後我們看到了一個公開透明的空間減少壓迫感的空間而且是共融式的我們所有的身心障礙者也可以使用無礙更方便我們各地徵選來的國民法官都有平等的權利來協助我們新的司法審判的制度那使用過後現在成效怎麼樣"},{"start":538.752,"end":546.007,"text":"秘書長,你們覺得這樣一個硬體的導入有沒有有助於我們國民法官心智的上路?"},{"start":547.862,"end":553.963,"text":"目前的反應應該都非常好。我們目前是28間改造完成, 有下一階段要改造的計畫嗎?"},{"start":571.963,"end":575.144,"text":"司法院秘書長列席說明立法院第11屆第1會期司法院秘書長列席說明立法院第11屆第1會期"},{"start":591.684,"end":596.029,"text":"您稍後提供書面資料,我們下一個階段的design thinking導入我們的司法制度,我會持續追蹤。"},{"start":612.367,"end":612.507,"text":"李慧琼議員"},{"start":632.626,"end":653.537,"text":"國民法官法庭上路我再佔用一點點時間不好意思剛剛前面幾位委員都檢視了他的執行成效我也知道就在上週我們也邀請了日本的專家來分享了日本的刑事訴訟制度跟他們裁判員制度分享給我們到我手上的資料是原定要2023年去年要修建300件"},{"start":654.918,"end":672.916,"text":"那實際的收件是108件但審結只有16件只有14.8%換言之他的收件數也好或是審結數都偏低那剛剛有幾位委員提到這個國民法官的報導率不到一半"},{"start":673.937,"end":673.957,"text":"委員會議員"},{"start":694.804,"end":701.307,"text":"我們的辯護量能不足,國民法官的報導率不高,這都是橫在眼前的挑戰,包括我們眾嘉賓昭偉剛剛也提出來,你們是幾月份會提出一個執行一年的報告,檢討報告?"},{"start":723.178,"end":746.295,"text":"我們最終的年度的總結報告是在今年的9月份會提出來那順便回應委員剛剛所關注的問題就於為什麼審結案件只有16件那我可以跟我委員報告一下我們事實上也做過分析因為在前半年112年的前半年的起訴案件量是真的是比較少到了7月之後"},{"start":747.316,"end":772.443,"text":"檢察官慎重起訴是先詳細的偵查之後慢慢的起訴上來那經過一個準備程序的期間那真的進到選任程序在最後進到審理程序所以大部分都集中在下半年才出現那目前來講目前的收案量已經到22件了所以相關的案件量的成長跟犯罪數來講應該是回復到一般的正常水準沒有持那個起訴遞言的問題"},{"start":773.203,"end":787.859,"text":"我們就是持續的來精進其實就日本的制度2009上路之後他們也是花了好幾年公民的滿意度才提升他們甚至花了五年我做過調查所以我沒有苛責現在馬上就要達標"},{"start":788.9,"end":788.94,"text":"主席"}]}}}}