{"id":149257,"url":"https://ivod.ly.gov.tw/Play/Clip/1M/149257","video_url":"https://ivod-lyvod.cdn.hinet.net/vod_1/_definst_/mp4:1MClips/ad9f873b941d2ddd53efa27fe1990e61a874ae98c1f56169f8ba9b0039caa7a6364a56083a712bf05ea18f28b6918d91.mp4/playlist.m3u8","委員名稱":"賴瑞隆","委員發言時間":"12:00:36 - 12:12:33","影片長度":"00:11:57","會議時間":"2024-03-04T09:00:00+08:00","會議名稱":"立法院第11屆第1會期經濟委員會第2次全體委員會議（事由：邀請農業部部長列席報告業務概況，並備質詢。【3月4日、3月6日及7日三天一次會】）","meet":{"tmpMeeting":null,"title":"第11屆第1會期經濟委員會第2次全體委員會議","term":11,"type":"委員會","sessionPeriod":1,"sessionTimes":2,"committees":[19],"id":"委員會-11-1-19-2"},"date":"2024-03-04","duration":717,"end_time":"2024-03-04T12:12:33+08:00","start_time":"2024-03-04T12:00:36+08:00","features":["ai-transcript","gazette"],"type":"Clip","gazette":{"lineno":1030,"blocks":[["賴委員瑞隆：（12時0分）謝謝召委，請陳部長。"],["主席：請陳部長。"],["賴委員瑞隆：部長，我想先請教一下豬肉的問題，因為從2月2日臺中市衛生單位發布台糖豬肉有瘦肉精之後，到現在也已經一個多月了，請問就農業最高主管機關的角度，現在臺灣的豬肉是不是安全的？"],["陳代理部長駿季：我先回答結論，臺灣的豬肉是絕對百分之百安全，而且沒有用乙型受體素。在2月2日臺中市檢測出來的時候，其實我們比大家更緊張，因為我們是負責整個豬的產業，所以我們馬上針對上市前的養豬場、屠宰場，養豬場包括豬體與飼料，我們都做了一系列的清查。"],["賴委員瑞隆：對全部檢測出來都是安全的嗎？"],["陳代理部長駿季：對，全部都沒有使用乙型受體素。"],["賴委員瑞隆：這段時間已經過了一個月左右，也做了調查、也做了專家會議，專家會議的結果是怎麼樣？"],["陳代理部長駿季：專家會議正在做最後的彙整，因為整個案件包括上市前我們的部分與……"],["賴委員瑞隆：就農業部呢？農業部徵詢的結果與調查的結果呢？"],["陳代理部長駿季：根據我們提供的年度檢測七百多件與現在加強專案檢測的七百多件，一千五百多件都沒有檢出。專家也針對養豬場、屠宰場及加工分切廠，他們認為到目前的所有資料都沒有證據顯示臺灣豬場有使用乙型受體素當作添加物。"],["賴委員瑞隆：部長，到底這件事情是怎麼發生的，就專家們的看法？"],["陳代理部長駿季：我想前市場的部分，專家一致認為從檢測結果來看是沒有問題，我們也會繼續加強抽檢。至於後市場檢測的部分，我想衛福部也是找專家，基本上，我們現在的專家都是找到可能的點，而不是一定是這個點，有很多可能的點，衛福部正在處理這個部分，預計3月初……"],["賴委員瑞隆：什麼時候會針對這個部分給大家……"],["陳代理部長駿季：大概在這個禮拜或下個禮拜應該就會有……"],["賴委員瑞隆：這個禮拜應該會出來？"],["陳代理部長駿季：根據我的了解，應該是3月初到……"],["賴委員瑞隆：本來說是3月初，今天已經是3月初了？"],["陳代理部長駿季：食安辦應該會做一些……"],["賴委員瑞隆：經過這樣的檢測，大家對於臺灣的豬肉是有信心的。"],["陳代理部長駿季：是。"],["賴委員瑞隆：也都沒有問題。"],["陳代理部長駿季：是。"],["賴委員瑞隆：但是總要等更確切的報告出來、總是要有更科學的專家調查結果，才能讓國人更加的放心。"],["陳代理部長駿季：對。"],["賴委員瑞隆：同時也了解為什麼這件事情會這樣發生。"],["陳代理部長駿季：是。"],["賴委員瑞隆：我們希望確保臺灣的豬肉、也確保未來臺灣的食安是讓大家更有信心的。"],["陳代理部長駿季：我想食安辦最後會綜整兩個部會本身的專家……"],["賴委員瑞隆：我再問一下部長，這件事情的發生有沒有什麼樣的標準作業程序出了問題，可以更加改進的？"],["陳代理部長駿季：我想在農業部負責的上市前的這些部分，因為現在的豬價價格也還不錯，而且乙型受體素是禁用的，農民沒有任何理由使用乙型受體素，這是第一個部分。至於後市場檢驗的部分，其實很多檢驗的部分，以農業部來講，我們做檢驗時通常都會多抽取幾件做備份，萬一檢測時有一些可能的誤差，還可以啟動另外的。"],["賴委員瑞隆：我舉例好了，如果現在是由農業部查到的狀況下，你們會不會更謹慎的處理？"],["陳代理部長駿季：以農業部檢測的流程來講，我們會分兩個部分，當它的數值比較接近檢測極限的時候……"],["賴委員瑞隆：很接近的時候啦！"],["陳代理部長駿季：對，它本身檢測的標準積差比較大的時候，我們就會更謹慎地去拿另外一個備份的樣品，重新去做檢測，如果檢測出來的結果是一致性的，才會去做後續的處理。"],["賴委員瑞隆：我希望除了衛生單位的一些經驗之外，因為你們是豬隻的主管單位，豬農的權益都在你們手上，我也希望你們農業單位能夠適度表達一些意見給所有的各政府單位，在這件事情上能夠更加謹慎小心。因為就我們常理的判斷，台糖是國營事業，基本上沒有造假的利益空間，更何況這個東西在成本上也看不到它的動機。"],["陳代理部長駿季：對。"],["賴委員瑞隆：在沒有動機的情況下，當發生這樣的事情時，恐怕要再三去推究，為什麼會發生這樣的狀況，這樣恐怕比較不會產生……現在發生事件的是台糖，如果是一般豬農的話，這個豬農恐怕承受不了這樣的處理。"],["陳代理部長駿季：是。"],["賴委員瑞隆：雖然這段時間的豬價都很不錯，但是我也認為在發生這個事件之後，相信國人在使用豬肉產品時一定受到了很大的影響，一定有受到影響，因為他們相對的比較沒有信心嘛！"],["陳代理部長駿季：對。"],["賴委員瑞隆：針對這件事情，我們不怪任何人，但是我認為政府的標準程序應該要更謹慎防止這樣的事件再次發生，一旦有的時候，至少讓各體系的人更謹慎去處理這件事情，這樣比較能夠避免。至於後面還有的問題，包括台糖信譽的損失，甚至是這段時間的整個損失，還有相關的求償問題，所以我認為這個部分經過了這樣的經驗之後，大家有更好的程序就可以減少這類事情在未來發生的機會。"],["陳代理部長駿季：我們在跨部會工作會議討論的時候，也提出了非常多檢測標準作業流程有什麼可以改進的空間，這部分我們都有相關的討論，未來……"],["賴委員瑞隆：我也希望農業部要表達意見。"],["陳代理部長駿季：我們表達了很多意見。"],["賴委員瑞隆：台糖也是豬農，萬一是其他一般的豬農，恐怕大概是倒定了啦！"],["陳代理部長駿季：對。"],["賴委員瑞隆：還沒求償恐怕就先倒了，再求償還不知要等到什麼時候，所以我認為農業部對這件事情還是應該要有它的立場。"],["陳代理部長駿季：會，我們會積極處理。"],["賴委員瑞隆：我再舉個例子，像我自己本身都會買台糖的豬肉，你看這段時間，到了昨天、到了今天早上，台糖的梅花肉還是完全的補貨中、補貨中，它補貨了一個多月，還是補貨中，因為它不會被上市，包括買得到台糖豬肉的一般通路也全部都下架。我問一下部長，什麼時候台糖豬肉可以上架，讓大家可以買得到？"],["陳代理部長駿季：關於後市場的豬肉，因為當初台糖有一部分是預防性的下架，它可以再向相關的所在地，應該是臺南市政府那邊申請重新上架，這個部分是可以做的。"],["賴委員瑞隆：你知道它申請了嗎？"],["陳代理部長駿季：我了解在上個禮拜他們有說會去申請。"],["賴委員瑞隆：我的意思是一方面希望這個調查儘快出來，因為出來之後大家可以安心，另一方面對於台糖方面，不要說是台糖，甚至是一般豬農遇到這樣的狀況，我認為農業部都應該更積極，如果確保它是安全的，都應該協助他們儘快度過這個難關。"],["陳代理部長駿季：是。"],["賴委員瑞隆：因為台糖是國家的，虧也是虧人民的，當然我認為這件事情應該還要有更積極的處理，好不好？"],["陳代理部長駿季：好，了解。"],["賴委員瑞隆：我希望他們是安全的就應該要讓他們能順利的上架。"],["陳代理部長駿季：是，我們會來協助。"],["賴委員瑞隆：不然損失會持續的擴大，好不好？"],["陳代理部長駿季：好。"],["賴委員瑞隆：再來要謝謝農業部對前鎮漁港的支持？其實我們前鎮漁港幾乎是被抹了半年的時間，不管是從一開始3,000萬元簡單的整理，到後來我們的爭取，而且是在我擔任的時候爭取了10億元的經費，最後院長大概也看到下水道五十年沒做，包括周邊的船漁服務中心該做，外籍漁工來這邊被看到在路邊洗澡，這些都讓臺灣的國際形象觀感不好，我們也都知道一類漁港是中央主管的漁港，五十年來沒做的事情，我認為做這些事情都是應該的啦！這段時間以來不斷的遭到攻擊及抹黑，半年來我沒看到有任何人去檢舉、甚至是檢調去調查，都沒有！罵完之後就跑，跑了之後就沒事了，我認為國家的建設不應該是這樣的發展。"],["陳代理部長駿季：是。"],["賴委員瑞隆：部長怎麼看待這整件事情？"],["陳代理部長駿季：當初前鎮漁港的擴建是有它的時間序，至於最後的核定，其實蘇院長看到的是整體的部分，而不是看到該修一個東西就修一個，所以整體包括漁市場、包括漁……"],["賴委員瑞隆：這個當然是不一樣的東西，本來只是做個簡單的整理，到後來還加了很多的加強，包括五十年沒做的下水道，原先的3,000萬元並沒有下水道嘛！"],["陳代理部長駿季：對。"],["賴委員瑞隆：很多該做的事情，後來爭取到該做的時候，建設本來就是該進行的，你去抹黑、攻擊它，甚至質疑是不是有歪哥、是不是有貪污，這個都過頭了。"],["陳代理部長駿季：是。"],["賴委員瑞隆：這半年來完全沒有任何一個案子立案調查，連檢舉的都沒有。"],["陳代理部長駿季：我們絕對禁得起檢視。"],["賴委員瑞隆：如果還有這樣的事情，我希望未來農業部應該要更積極的澄清及說明。"],["陳代理部長駿季：是。"],["賴委員瑞隆：我也認為臺灣社會要進步就不應該朝這個方向走。"],["陳代理部長駿季：了解。"],["賴委員瑞隆：政治人物的嘴巴如果都是這樣隨意亂講、不負責任的講，其實對認真做事的公務員都是不公平的。"],["陳代理部長駿季：對，我舉個例子，像我們的下水道工程已經在今年的1月7日完工了，整個下水道工程完工之後，對於整個區域排水的部分，漁港的水就會非常乾淨。"],["賴委員瑞隆：高雄市是直轄市，全高雄市只有這個地點是五十年來還沒有做下水道的。"],["陳代理部長駿季：是。"],["賴委員瑞隆：凸顯出本來就該進行的事情。"],["陳代理部長駿季：對。"],["賴委員瑞隆：最後一個問題要請教一下，鮮乳的部分，國內很多人都喜歡鮮乳，當時有提到國外的乳品進到臺灣，目前國內的鮮乳是14天、國外進來的鮮乳可能可以到90天。部長，原先有講到1個月內會提出鮮乳與非鮮乳的一些明確定義方案，這個出來了嗎？"],["陳代理部長駿季：我們已經與所有的乳品業者進行相關的討論，也初步做了一些規劃，應該在3月底之前會送到衛福部那邊討論。我要強調最主要是殺菌的方法，因為有低溫、有高溫、有超高溫的部分，還有後續的包裝是不是在無菌的狀態之下，所以這個部分我們希望用長效乳的方式……"],["賴委員瑞隆：我只是希望適度的讓國人知道，一方面做一些區隔，一方面也是讓國人知道，我們自己的產品是在14天內的，這是最……"],["陳代理部長駿季：報告委員，其實以我們國內的技術而言，就算是要3個月也可以，但相對的是國人購買的習性……"],["賴委員瑞隆：我們的需求不需要拉到那麼長。"],["陳代理部長駿季：對，不需要拉到那麼高。"],["賴委員瑞隆：對。"],["陳代理部長駿季：其實……"],["賴委員瑞隆：但是我認為市場上有做區隔的話，國人就會更好選擇。"],["陳代理部長駿季：我們會搭配臺灣鮮乳的標章去區別國產的鮮乳。"],["賴委員瑞隆：最後一個，希望未來對於產地的標示也能一起思考，就像我們的豬肉產地標示一樣，好不好？如此一來，對於我們臺灣一些乳品的相關產業都會有幫助。"],["陳代理部長駿季：好。"],["賴委員瑞隆：謝謝召委、謝謝部長。"],["陳代理部長駿季：謝謝。"],["主席：謝謝。","接下來請鍾佳濱委員發言。"]],"agenda":{"page_end":124,"meet_id":"委員會-11-1-19-2","speakers":["楊瓊瓔","邱議瑩","林岱樺","謝衣鳯","張啓楷","呂玉玲","蔡易餘","陳亭妃","鄭天財Sra 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\"score\": 0.939}, {\"word\": \"備\"}, {\"word\": \"份\", \"start\": 233.164, \"end\": 233.184, \"score\": 0.234}]}, {\"start\": 234.095, \"end\": 258.906, \"text\": \"萬一檢測的時候會有一些可能的誤差的時候還可以啟動另外我舉例好了啦如果現在是由農業部去查到這樣的狀況下的時候那你們會不會更謹慎來做一個我想以農業部的的檢測的一個流程裡面來講我們會分兩個部分齁就是當他的數值比較接近於檢測極限的時候很接近的時候對然後他的本身的檢測的那個那個\", \"words\": [{\"word\": \"萬\"}, {\"word\": \"一\", \"start\": 234.095, \"end\": 234.595, \"score\": 0.874}, {\"word\": \"檢\"}, {\"word\": \"測\"}, {\"word\": \"的\", \"start\": 234.595, \"end\": 234.856, \"score\": 0.92}, {\"word\": \"時\"}, {\"word\": \"候\", \"start\": 234.856, \"end\": 235.296, \"score\": 0.911}, {\"word\": \"會\"}, {\"word\": \"有\", \"start\": 235.296, \"end\": 235.456, \"score\": 0.999}, {\"word\": \"一\", \"start\": 235.456, \"end\": 235.536, \"score\": 0.991}, {\"word\": \"些\", \"start\": 235.536, \"end\": 236.016, \"score\": 0.998}, {\"word\": \"可\", \"start\": 236.016, \"end\": 236.136, \"score\": 0.996}, {\"word\": \"能\", \"start\": 236.136, \"end\": 236.276, 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\"我也希望你們能夠適度的表達一些意見給所有的各政府單位在這件事情上面能夠更加謹慎的想因為就我們的常理的判斷台糖它是國營事業基本上沒有去造假的利益的空間更何況這個東西它沒有實際成本上面沒有就是你看不到它的動機\", \"words\": [{\"word\": \"我\", \"start\": 287.813, \"end\": 287.833, \"score\": 0.02}, {\"word\": \"也\", \"start\": 287.833, \"end\": 287.993, \"score\": 0.679}, {\"word\": \"希\", \"start\": 287.993, \"end\": 288.093, \"score\": 0.812}, {\"word\": \"望\", \"start\": 288.093, \"end\": 288.193, \"score\": 0.638}, {\"word\": \"你\", \"start\": 288.193, \"end\": 288.354, \"score\": 0.69}, {\"word\": \"們\"}, {\"word\": \"能\", \"start\": 288.354, \"end\": 288.754, \"score\": 0.71}, {\"word\": \"夠\"}, {\"word\": \"適\"}, {\"word\": \"度\", \"start\": 288.754, \"end\": 288.854, \"score\": 0.975}, {\"word\": \"的\", \"start\": 288.854, \"end\": 288.974, \"score\": 0.612}, {\"word\": \"表\", \"start\": 288.974, \"end\": 289.094, \"score\": 0.999}, {\"word\": \"達\"}, {\"word\": \"一\", \"start\": 289.094, \"end\": 289.294, \"score\": 0.834}, {\"word\": \"些\", \"start\": 289.294, \"end\": 289.455, 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00:00:56,347\n那在2月2日案件發生臺東市檢測案件出來的時候其實我們比大家更緊張因為我們是負責整個產業的的一個豬所以我們馬上針對上市前的養豬場\n\n4\n00:01:04,502 --> 00:01:04,862\n我講專家會議最後\n\n5\n00:01:24,242 --> 00:01:24,262\n農業部\n\n6\n00:01:55,703 --> 00:02:14,993\n認為到目前的所有的資料沒有證據去顯示我們的台灣的豬場是有飼養就是有用這個已經受理數當作添加物部長那這樣子到底這事情是怎麼發生的就專家們的看法我想前市場的部分大概專家的一致認為就是從檢測的結果來看是\n\n7\n00:02:16,954 --> 00:02:17,254\n這個禮拜應該會出來\n\n8\n00:02:45,253 --> 00:03:08,369\n我瞭解是3月初大本來說3月初嘛今天已經3月初了實案辦應該會做一些我跟你說這個事情其實是當然我們經過這樣檢測當然大家對於台灣的豬肉是有信心的啦也都沒有問題的但是總是有一個更確切的出來之後總是一個更科學更用專家的一個調查出來的結果讓國人更加的放心那也同時也瞭解為什麼這事情會這樣子發生啦我們希望確保\n\n9\n00:03:10,410 --> 00:03:25,772\n台灣的豬肉也確保未來台灣大家食安上的一個安全是大家更有信心的我想食安辦最後會中整兩個部會本身的那我再問一下部長啦就這件事情這樣的發生有沒有什麼樣的一些標準作業程序上面是出了一些問題可以更加改進的\n\n10\n00:03:26,312 --> 00:03:53,184\n我想在整個的我們農業部負責的這個就是市場上市前的這些部分應該我們的農民因為現在的租價也還不錯的價格他沒有任何理由因為乙型受理術也是禁用的沒有任何理由去使用這個乙型受理術這是第一個部分那至於後市場的檢驗的部分那其實很多檢驗的部分以農業部來講我們做檢驗的時候當然都會多抽取幾件做備份\n\n11\n00:03:54,095 --> 00:04:18,906\n萬一檢測的時候會有一些可能的誤差的時候還可以啟動另外我舉例好了啦如果現在是由農業部去查到這樣的狀況下的時候那你們會不會更謹慎來做一個我想以農業部的的檢測的一個流程裡面來講我們會分兩個部分齁就是當他的數值比較接近於檢測極限的時候很接近的時候對然後他的本身的檢測的那個那個\n\n12\n00:04:23,386 --> 00:04:47,433\n我們就會更謹慎地去拿另外一個備份的樣品去重新做檢測然後檢測出來如果結果一致性的時候才會去做後續的處理我希望這些東西都在未來啦我們都希望這樣的事情應該去那個就是說我也希望除了衛生單位的一些經驗我也希望農業單位因為你們是租租資的這個主管租農的權益都在你們的手上\n\n13\n00:04:47,813 --> 00:05:05,410\n我也希望你們能夠適度的表達一些意見給所有的各政府單位在這件事情上面能夠更加謹慎的想因為就我們的常理的判斷台糖它是國營事業基本上沒有去造假的利益的空間更何況這個東西它沒有實際成本上面沒有就是你看不到它的動機\n\n14\n00:05:06,571 --> 00:05:30,949\n所以沒有動機狀態下的時候當發生事情的時候恐怕必須要再三去推救他為什麼會發生這樣的狀況這樣恐怕比較不會產生現在發生的事件是台糖若是一般的豬農的話這個豬農恐怕承受不了這一個月這樣的處理所以我說這段時間豬價都很不錯但是我也認為也因為發生這個事件之後我相信國人在使用豬肉產品的時候一定受到很大的一個影響\n\n15\n00:05:54,827 --> 00:05:55,127\n我希望農業部要表達意見\n\n16\n00:06:23,433 --> 00:06:46,955\n台糖也是豬農萬一這是其他一般的豬農的話那恐怕大概是倒定了啦對啊他後面的球場恐怕先倒了在球場還不知道球場什麼時候所以我意思說我認為這件事情應該農業部還是要有他的立場在我再舉個例子好了啦我自己其實本身我都會買台糖的豬肉你看這段時間到昨天到今天早上說台糖的梅花肉到現在是完全捕獲中捕獲中\n\n17\n00:06:48,237 --> 00:06:48,677\n您知道他申請了嗎?\n\n18\n00:07:18,559 --> 00:07:32,151\n我瞭解在上個禮拜他們有說他們會去申請我例如說一方面我希望這個調查盡快出來因為出來的時候大家更有信心另一方面如果對台糖的部分不要說是一般台糖就其他甚至豬農會遇到這樣的狀況下我認為農業部都應該都應該更繼續如果確保他是安全的都應該給予協助他們盡快度過這個難關\n\n19\n00:07:39,537 --> 00:07:53,870\n因為他是台糖是國家的虧也是虧人民的那當然我認為這事情應該要有更積極的一些處理啦好不好我希望他們是安全的是那個話那就應該讓他們能夠能夠讓他們能夠順利的上架要不然這個損失會持續的擴大好不好\n\n20\n00:07:57,854 --> 00:08:16,586\n再我請教一下當然也要謝謝這個農業部來支持錢振宇港的我這要講的是這樣啦半年前的時候我們錢振宇港幾乎是被抹了半年的時間啦那最後從一開始不管是從3000萬的簡單的整理的部分到後來我們爭取那還是我擔任的時候來爭取的10億的一個\n\n21\n00:08:21,069 --> 00:08:43,538\n這個那到後來院長們大概看到下水道50年沒做包括周邊的船員服務中心該做外勞來這邊外籍的漁工來這邊的時候被看到在路邊洗澡叫在洗澡然後這些都讓台灣的國際形象是不好那我們都知道一類漁港這是中央主管的漁港50年來沒做的事情我認為做這件事情都是應該的啦那我覺得這一段時間其實是被這樣的不斷的\n\n22\n00:08:44,918 --> 00:09:09,110\n公職跟抹黑這半年來我沒有看到任何人有去檢舉甚至去檢調去查甚至什麼都沒有罵完之後就跑跑了以後就沒事了我認為其實這國家的建設不應該是這樣的發展我也認為部長怎麼看待這整件事情我想當初前面漁港的一個擴建當然他有他的時間跟時間序那最後核定的其實當初的蘇院長\n\n23\n00:09:30,131 --> 00:09:46,841\n就是很多該做的事情後來爭取到該做的時候建設本來就是該進行的你把那個東西去抹黑它去攻擊甚至是不是有歪戈是不是有貪汙這個都過頭了這半年來完全沒有任何一個案子去立案去調查連檢舉都沒有檢舉所以我的意思說如果像這樣的事情有的話我還是希望未來農業部要更積極的去做澄清跟說明我也認為社會臺灣如果要進步不應該朝這個方向走\n\n24\n00:09:54,825 --> 00:10:21,094\n正正的嘴巴如果都是這樣隨意亂講不負責任的講的話其實對所有認真做事的公務員都是不公平的我舉個例子像我們的下水道工程已經在今年的1月7日完工了那整個下水道工程完工以後對於整個區域的排水的部分對於漁港的水就會非常乾淨高雄市是指甲市啦高雄市只有這個地點是50年來還沒有做下水道的所以就是凸顯出本來就該進行的事情好不好我希望這個\n\n25\n00:10:22,254 --> 00:10:41,906\n最後一個問題我請教一下鮮乳的部分國內很多人很喜歡用鮮乳也喜歡鮮乳但是我們現在鮮乳的部分當時有提到就是國外的一些乳品進到台灣來我們鮮乳是14天國外的可能可以到90天那部長原先有講到一個月內會提出鮮乳跟非鮮乳的一些明確定義方案這個出來了嗎\n\n26\n00:10:42,987 --> 00:11:07,632\n我想我們已經跟我們的所謂的乳品業者也相關的討論然後也初步有在規劃一些已經送到在應該在2月底應該3月底之前會送到送到行政院沒有送到衛生部那邊去討論那我要強調的是國外的因為最主要是殺菌的方法因為有低溫有高溫有超高溫的部分還有後續的包裝是不是在無菌的狀態之下\n\n27\n00:11:09,192 --> 00:11:31,917\n所以這個部分我們希望說用長效率的方式我只是希望適度的讓國人知道啦一方面也做一些區隔一方面也是讓國人知道說我們自己的產品其實是14天內的我跟委員報告其實以我們國內的技術我們要3個月也可以可是相對的就是說國人的購買的信息對我們的需求不需要拉到那麼長對不需要拉那麼高對所以其實\n\n28\n00:11:32,777 --> 00:11:51,434\n但是我認為市場上如果有做一些那個的話其實會讓國人更好做一些選擇啦另外最後我也希望未來有機會也讓那個產地的標示也能夠也許思考就像我們的豬肉產地的標示一樣好不好就是說我覺得這個對台灣的一些我們的乳品相關的產業都會有相當的幫助啦\n\n","tsv":"start\tend\ttext\n549\t9136\t請發言。我們謝謝議事主任,他把我們的麥克風關小一點,要不然早上聲音都很大,所以我們就關小一點。謝謝議事主任。謝謝,謝謝趙偉。請陳部長。我們請陳部長。\n20873\t48235\t部長我想先請教一下這個豬肉的問題因為從2月2日臺中市的衛生單位發布這個臺糖的豬肉有瘦肉精之後那經過現在大概經過一個多月了那我想問一下現在就農業的最高主管機關角度臺灣的豬肉現在是不是安全的我想我先回答結論臺灣的豬肉是絕對百分之百安全而且沒有用乙型受體素\n48922\t56347\t那在2月2日案件發生臺東市檢測案件出來的時候其實我們比大家更緊張因為我們是負責整個產業的的一個豬所以我們馬上針對上市前的養豬場\n64502\t64862\t我講專家會議最後\n84242\t84262\t農業部\n115703\t134993\t認為到目前的所有的資料沒有證據去顯示我們的台灣的豬場是有飼養就是有用這個已經受理數當作添加物部長那這樣子到底這事情是怎麼發生的就專家們的看法我想前市場的部分大概專家的一致認為就是從檢測的結果來看是\n136954\t137254\t這個禮拜應該會出來\n165253\t188369\t我瞭解是3月初大 本來說3月初嘛今天已經3月初了實案辦應該會做一些 我跟你說這個事情其實是當然我們經過這樣檢測當然大家對於台灣的豬肉是有信心的啦也都沒有問題的但是總是有一個更確切的出來之後總是一個更科學更用專家的一個調查出來的結果讓國人更加的放心那也同時也瞭解為什麼這事情會這樣子發生啦我們希望確保\n190410\t205772\t台灣的豬肉也確保未來台灣大家食安上的一個安全是大家更有信心的我想食安辦最後會中整兩個部會本身的那我再問一下部長啦就這件事情這樣的發生有沒有什麼樣的一些標準作業程序上面是出了一些問題可以更加改進的\n206312\t233184\t我想在整個的我們農業部負責的這個就是市場上市前的這些部分應該我們的農民因為現在的租價也還不錯的價格他沒有任何理由因為乙型受理術也是禁用的沒有任何理由去使用這個乙型受理術這是第一個部分那至於後市場的檢驗的部分那其實很多檢驗的部分以農業部來講我們做檢驗的時候當然都會多抽取幾件做備份\n234095\t258906\t萬一檢測的時候會有一些可能的誤差的時候還可以啟動另外我舉例好了啦如果現在是由農業部去查到這樣的狀況下的時候那你們會不會更謹慎來做一個我想以農業部的的檢測的一個流程裡面來講我們會分兩個部分齁就是當他的數值比較接近於檢測極限的時候很接近的時候對然後他的本身的檢測的那個那個\n263386\t287433\t我們就會更謹慎地去拿另外一個備份的樣品去重新做檢測然後檢測出來如果結果一致性的時候才會去做後續的處理我希望這些東西都在未來啦我們都希望這樣的事情應該去那個就是說我也希望除了衛生單位的一些經驗我也希望農業單位因為你們是租租資的這個主管租農的權益都在你們的手上\n287813\t305410\t我也希望你們能夠適度的表達一些意見給所有的各政府單位在這件事情上面能夠更加謹慎的想因為就我們的常理的判斷台糖它是國營事業基本上沒有去造假的利益的空間更何況這個東西它沒有實際成本上面沒有就是你看不到它的動機\n306571\t330949\t所以沒有動機狀態下的時候 當發生事情的時候 恐怕必須要再三去推救他為什麼會發生這樣的狀況 這樣恐怕比較不會產生現在發生的事件是台糖 若是一般的豬農的話 這個豬農恐怕承受不了這一個月這樣的處理所以我說這段時間豬價都很不錯 但是我也認為也因為發生這個事件之後 我相信國人在使用豬肉產品的時候 一定受到很大的一個影響\n331630\t354787\t⋯⋯⋯\n354827\t355127\t我希望農業部要表達意見\n383433\t406955\t台糖也是豬農萬一這是其他一般的豬農的話那恐怕大概是倒定了啦對啊他後面的球場恐怕先倒了在球場還不知道球場什麼時候所以我意思說我認為這件事情應該農業部還是要有他的立場在我再舉個例子好了啦我自己其實本身我都會買台糖的豬肉你看這段時間到昨天到今天早上說台糖的梅花肉到現在是完全捕獲中捕獲中\n408237\t408677\t您知道他申請了嗎?\n438559\t452151\t我瞭解在上個禮拜他們有說他們會去申請我例如說一方面我希望這個調查盡快出來因為出來的時候大家更有信心另一方面如果對台糖的部分不要說是一般台糖就其他甚至豬農會遇到這樣的狀況下我認為農業部都應該都應該更繼續如果確保他是安全的都應該給予協助他們盡快度過這個難關\n459537\t473870\t因為他是台糖是國家的虧也是虧人民的那當然我認為這事情應該要有更積極的一些處理啦好不好我希望他們是安全的是那個話那就應該讓他們能夠能夠讓他們能夠順利的上架要不然這個損失會持續的擴大好不好\n477854\t496586\t再我請教一下 當然也要謝謝這個 農業部來支持錢振宇港的我這要講的是這樣啦 半年前的時候我們錢振宇港幾乎是被抹了半年的時間啦那最後從一開始不管是從3000萬的簡單的整理的部分到後來我們爭取 那還是我擔任的時候來爭取的10億的一個\n501069\t523538\t這個那到後來院長們大概看到下水道50年沒做包括周邊的船員服務中心該做外勞來這邊外籍的漁工來這邊的時候被看到在路邊洗澡叫在洗澡然後這些都讓台灣的國際形象是不好那我們都知道一類漁港這是中央主管的漁港50年來沒做的事情我認為做這件事情都是應該的啦那我覺得這一段時間其實是被這樣的不斷的\n524918\t549110\t公職跟抹黑這半年來我沒有看到任何人有去檢舉甚至去檢調去查甚至什麼都沒有罵完之後就跑跑了以後就沒事了我認為其實這國家的建設不應該是這樣的發展我也認為部長怎麼看待這整件事情我想當初前面漁港的一個擴建當然他有他的時間跟時間序那最後核定的其實當初的蘇院長\n549650\t570111\t對﹖\n570131\t586841\t就是很多該做的事情後來爭取到該做的時候建設本來就是該進行的你把那個東西去抹黑它去攻擊甚至是不是有歪戈是不是有貪汙這個都過頭了這半年來完全沒有任何一個案子去立案去調查連檢舉都沒有檢舉所以我的意思說如果像這樣的事情有的話我還是希望未來農業部要更積極的去做澄清跟說明我也認為社會臺灣如果要進步不應該朝這個方向走\n594825\t621094\t正正的嘴巴如果都是這樣隨意亂講不負責任的講的話其實對所有認真做事的公務員都是不公平的我舉個例子像我們的下水道工程已經在今年的1月7日完工了那整個下水道工程完工以後對於整個區域的排水的部分對於漁港的水就會非常乾淨高雄市是指甲市啦高雄市只有這個地點是50年來還沒有做下水道的所以就是凸顯出本來就該進行的事情好不好我希望這個\n622254\t641906\t最後一個問題我請教一下鮮乳的部分 國內很多人很喜歡用鮮乳也喜歡鮮乳但是我們現在鮮乳的部分當時有提到就是國外的一些乳品進到台灣來 我們鮮乳是14天 國外的可能可以到90天那部長原先有講到一個月內會提出鮮乳跟非鮮乳的一些明確定義方案 這個出來了嗎\n642987\t667632\t我想我們已經跟我們的所謂的乳品業者也相關的討論然後也初步有在規劃一些已經送到在應該在2月底應該3月底之前會送到送到行政院沒有送到衛生部那邊去討論那我要強調的是國外的因為最主要是殺菌的方法因為有低溫有高溫有超高溫的部分還有後續的包裝是不是在無菌的狀態之下\n669192\t691917\t所以這個部分我們希望說用長效率的方式我只是希望適度的讓國人知道啦一方面也做一些區隔一方面也是讓國人知道說我們自己的產品其實是14天內的我跟委員報告其實以我們國內的技術我們要3個月也可以可是相對的就是說國人的購買的信息對我們的需求不需要拉到那麼長對不需要拉那麼高對所以其實\n692777\t711434\t但是我認為市場上如果有做一些那個的話其實會讓國人更好做一些選擇啦另外最後我也希望未來有機會也讓那個產地的標示也能夠也許思考就像我們的豬肉產地的標示一樣好不好就是說我覺得這個對台灣的一些我們的乳品相關的產業都會有相當的幫助啦\n","txt":"請發言。我們謝謝議事主任,他把我們的麥克風關小一點,要不然早上聲音都很大,所以我們就關小一點。謝謝議事主任。謝謝,謝謝趙偉。請陳部長。我們請陳部長。\n部長我想先請教一下這個豬肉的問題因為從2月2日臺中市的衛生單位發布這個臺糖的豬肉有瘦肉精之後那經過現在大概經過一個多月了那我想問一下現在就農業的最高主管機關角度臺灣的豬肉現在是不是安全的我想我先回答結論臺灣的豬肉是絕對百分之百安全而且沒有用乙型受體素\n那在2月2日案件發生臺東市檢測案件出來的時候其實我們比大家更緊張因為我們是負責整個產業的的一個豬所以我們馬上針對上市前的養豬場\n我講專家會議最後\n農業部\n認為到目前的所有的資料沒有證據去顯示我們的台灣的豬場是有飼養就是有用這個已經受理數當作添加物部長那這樣子到底這事情是怎麼發生的就專家們的看法我想前市場的部分大概專家的一致認為就是從檢測的結果來看是\n這個禮拜應該會出來\n我瞭解是3月初大 本來說3月初嘛今天已經3月初了實案辦應該會做一些 我跟你說這個事情其實是當然我們經過這樣檢測當然大家對於台灣的豬肉是有信心的啦也都沒有問題的但是總是有一個更確切的出來之後總是一個更科學更用專家的一個調查出來的結果讓國人更加的放心那也同時也瞭解為什麼這事情會這樣子發生啦我們希望確保\n台灣的豬肉也確保未來台灣大家食安上的一個安全是大家更有信心的我想食安辦最後會中整兩個部會本身的那我再問一下部長啦就這件事情這樣的發生有沒有什麼樣的一些標準作業程序上面是出了一些問題可以更加改進的\n我想在整個的我們農業部負責的這個就是市場上市前的這些部分應該我們的農民因為現在的租價也還不錯的價格他沒有任何理由因為乙型受理術也是禁用的沒有任何理由去使用這個乙型受理術這是第一個部分那至於後市場的檢驗的部分那其實很多檢驗的部分以農業部來講我們做檢驗的時候當然都會多抽取幾件做備份\n萬一檢測的時候會有一些可能的誤差的時候還可以啟動另外我舉例好了啦如果現在是由農業部去查到這樣的狀況下的時候那你們會不會更謹慎來做一個我想以農業部的的檢測的一個流程裡面來講我們會分兩個部分齁就是當他的數值比較接近於檢測極限的時候很接近的時候對然後他的本身的檢測的那個那個\n我們就會更謹慎地去拿另外一個備份的樣品去重新做檢測然後檢測出來如果結果一致性的時候才會去做後續的處理我希望這些東西都在未來啦我們都希望這樣的事情應該去那個就是說我也希望除了衛生單位的一些經驗我也希望農業單位因為你們是租租資的這個主管租農的權益都在你們的手上\n我也希望你們能夠適度的表達一些意見給所有的各政府單位在這件事情上面能夠更加謹慎的想因為就我們的常理的判斷台糖它是國營事業基本上沒有去造假的利益的空間更何況這個東西它沒有實際成本上面沒有就是你看不到它的動機\n所以沒有動機狀態下的時候 當發生事情的時候 恐怕必須要再三去推救他為什麼會發生這樣的狀況 這樣恐怕比較不會產生現在發生的事件是台糖 若是一般的豬農的話 這個豬農恐怕承受不了這一個月這樣的處理所以我說這段時間豬價都很不錯 但是我也認為也因為發生這個事件之後 我相信國人在使用豬肉產品的時候 一定受到很大的一個影響\n⋯⋯⋯\n我希望農業部要表達意見\n台糖也是豬農萬一這是其他一般的豬農的話那恐怕大概是倒定了啦對啊他後面的球場恐怕先倒了在球場還不知道球場什麼時候所以我意思說我認為這件事情應該農業部還是要有他的立場在我再舉個例子好了啦我自己其實本身我都會買台糖的豬肉你看這段時間到昨天到今天早上說台糖的梅花肉到現在是完全捕獲中捕獲中\n您知道他申請了嗎?\n我瞭解在上個禮拜他們有說他們會去申請我例如說一方面我希望這個調查盡快出來因為出來的時候大家更有信心另一方面如果對台糖的部分不要說是一般台糖就其他甚至豬農會遇到這樣的狀況下我認為農業部都應該都應該更繼續如果確保他是安全的都應該給予協助他們盡快度過這個難關\n因為他是台糖是國家的虧也是虧人民的那當然我認為這事情應該要有更積極的一些處理啦好不好我希望他們是安全的是那個話那就應該讓他們能夠能夠讓他們能夠順利的上架要不然這個損失會持續的擴大好不好\n再我請教一下 當然也要謝謝這個 農業部來支持錢振宇港的我這要講的是這樣啦 半年前的時候我們錢振宇港幾乎是被抹了半年的時間啦那最後從一開始不管是從3000萬的簡單的整理的部分到後來我們爭取 那還是我擔任的時候來爭取的10億的一個\n這個那到後來院長們大概看到下水道50年沒做包括周邊的船員服務中心該做外勞來這邊外籍的漁工來這邊的時候被看到在路邊洗澡叫在洗澡然後這些都讓台灣的國際形象是不好那我們都知道一類漁港這是中央主管的漁港50年來沒做的事情我認為做這件事情都是應該的啦那我覺得這一段時間其實是被這樣的不斷的\n公職跟抹黑這半年來我沒有看到任何人有去檢舉甚至去檢調去查甚至什麼都沒有罵完之後就跑跑了以後就沒事了我認為其實這國家的建設不應該是這樣的發展我也認為部長怎麼看待這整件事情我想當初前面漁港的一個擴建當然他有他的時間跟時間序那最後核定的其實當初的蘇院長\n對﹖\n就是很多該做的事情後來爭取到該做的時候建設本來就是該進行的你把那個東西去抹黑它去攻擊甚至是不是有歪戈是不是有貪汙這個都過頭了這半年來完全沒有任何一個案子去立案去調查連檢舉都沒有檢舉所以我的意思說如果像這樣的事情有的話我還是希望未來農業部要更積極的去做澄清跟說明我也認為社會臺灣如果要進步不應該朝這個方向走\n正正的嘴巴如果都是這樣隨意亂講不負責任的講的話其實對所有認真做事的公務員都是不公平的我舉個例子像我們的下水道工程已經在今年的1月7日完工了那整個下水道工程完工以後對於整個區域的排水的部分對於漁港的水就會非常乾淨高雄市是指甲市啦高雄市只有這個地點是50年來還沒有做下水道的所以就是凸顯出本來就該進行的事情好不好我希望這個\n最後一個問題我請教一下鮮乳的部分 國內很多人很喜歡用鮮乳也喜歡鮮乳但是我們現在鮮乳的部分當時有提到就是國外的一些乳品進到台灣來 我們鮮乳是14天 國外的可能可以到90天那部長原先有講到一個月內會提出鮮乳跟非鮮乳的一些明確定義方案 這個出來了嗎\n我想我們已經跟我們的所謂的乳品業者也相關的討論然後也初步有在規劃一些已經送到在應該在2月底應該3月底之前會送到送到行政院沒有送到衛生部那邊去討論那我要強調的是國外的因為最主要是殺菌的方法因為有低溫有高溫有超高溫的部分還有後續的包裝是不是在無菌的狀態之下\n所以這個部分我們希望說用長效率的方式我只是希望適度的讓國人知道啦一方面也做一些區隔一方面也是讓國人知道說我們自己的產品其實是14天內的我跟委員報告其實以我們國內的技術我們要3個月也可以可是相對的就是說國人的購買的信息對我們的需求不需要拉到那麼長對不需要拉那麼高對所以其實\n但是我認為市場上如果有做一些那個的話其實會讓國人更好做一些選擇啦另外最後我也希望未來有機會也讓那個產地的標示也能夠也許思考就像我們的豬肉產地的標示一樣好不好就是說我覺得這個對台灣的一些我們的乳品相關的產業都會有相當的幫助啦\n","vtt":"WEBVTT\n\n00:00.549 --> 00:09.136\n請發言。我們謝謝議事主任,他把我們的麥克風關小一點,要不然早上聲音都很大,所以我們就關小一點。謝謝議事主任。謝謝,謝謝趙偉。請陳部長。我們請陳部長。\n\n00:20.873 --> 00:48.235\n部長我想先請教一下這個豬肉的問題因為從2月2日臺中市的衛生單位發布這個臺糖的豬肉有瘦肉精之後那經過現在大概經過一個多月了那我想問一下現在就農業的最高主管機關角度臺灣的豬肉現在是不是安全的我想我先回答結論臺灣的豬肉是絕對百分之百安全而且沒有用乙型受體素\n\n00:48.922 --> 00:56.347\n那在2月2日案件發生臺東市檢測案件出來的時候其實我們比大家更緊張因為我們是負責整個產業的的一個豬所以我們馬上針對上市前的養豬場\n\n01:04.502 --> 01:04.862\n我講專家會議最後\n\n01:24.242 --> 01:24.262\n農業部\n\n01:55.703 --> 02:14.993\n認為到目前的所有的資料沒有證據去顯示我們的台灣的豬場是有飼養就是有用這個已經受理數當作添加物部長那這樣子到底這事情是怎麼發生的就專家們的看法我想前市場的部分大概專家的一致認為就是從檢測的結果來看是\n\n02:16.954 --> 02:17.254\n這個禮拜應該會出來\n\n02:45.253 --> 03:08.369\n我瞭解是3月初大本來說3月初嘛今天已經3月初了實案辦應該會做一些我跟你說這個事情其實是當然我們經過這樣檢測當然大家對於台灣的豬肉是有信心的啦也都沒有問題的但是總是有一個更確切的出來之後總是一個更科學更用專家的一個調查出來的結果讓國人更加的放心那也同時也瞭解為什麼這事情會這樣子發生啦我們希望確保\n\n03:10.410 --> 03:25.772\n台灣的豬肉也確保未來台灣大家食安上的一個安全是大家更有信心的我想食安辦最後會中整兩個部會本身的那我再問一下部長啦就這件事情這樣的發生有沒有什麼樣的一些標準作業程序上面是出了一些問題可以更加改進的\n\n03:26.312 --> 03:53.184\n我想在整個的我們農業部負責的這個就是市場上市前的這些部分應該我們的農民因為現在的租價也還不錯的價格他沒有任何理由因為乙型受理術也是禁用的沒有任何理由去使用這個乙型受理術這是第一個部分那至於後市場的檢驗的部分那其實很多檢驗的部分以農業部來講我們做檢驗的時候當然都會多抽取幾件做備份\n\n03:54.095 --> 04:18.906\n萬一檢測的時候會有一些可能的誤差的時候還可以啟動另外我舉例好了啦如果現在是由農業部去查到這樣的狀況下的時候那你們會不會更謹慎來做一個我想以農業部的的檢測的一個流程裡面來講我們會分兩個部分齁就是當他的數值比較接近於檢測極限的時候很接近的時候對然後他的本身的檢測的那個那個\n\n04:23.386 --> 04:47.433\n我們就會更謹慎地去拿另外一個備份的樣品去重新做檢測然後檢測出來如果結果一致性的時候才會去做後續的處理我希望這些東西都在未來啦我們都希望這樣的事情應該去那個就是說我也希望除了衛生單位的一些經驗我也希望農業單位因為你們是租租資的這個主管租農的權益都在你們的手上\n\n04:47.813 --> 05:05.410\n我也希望你們能夠適度的表達一些意見給所有的各政府單位在這件事情上面能夠更加謹慎的想因為就我們的常理的判斷台糖它是國營事業基本上沒有去造假的利益的空間更何況這個東西它沒有實際成本上面沒有就是你看不到它的動機\n\n05:06.571 --> 05:30.949\n所以沒有動機狀態下的時候當發生事情的時候恐怕必須要再三去推救他為什麼會發生這樣的狀況這樣恐怕比較不會產生現在發生的事件是台糖若是一般的豬農的話這個豬農恐怕承受不了這一個月這樣的處理所以我說這段時間豬價都很不錯但是我也認為也因為發生這個事件之後我相信國人在使用豬肉產品的時候一定受到很大的一個影響\n\n05:54.827 --> 05:55.127\n我希望農業部要表達意見\n\n06:23.433 --> 06:46.955\n台糖也是豬農萬一這是其他一般的豬農的話那恐怕大概是倒定了啦對啊他後面的球場恐怕先倒了在球場還不知道球場什麼時候所以我意思說我認為這件事情應該農業部還是要有他的立場在我再舉個例子好了啦我自己其實本身我都會買台糖的豬肉你看這段時間到昨天到今天早上說台糖的梅花肉到現在是完全捕獲中捕獲中\n\n06:48.237 --> 06:48.677\n您知道他申請了嗎?\n\n07:18.559 --> 07:32.151\n我瞭解在上個禮拜他們有說他們會去申請我例如說一方面我希望這個調查盡快出來因為出來的時候大家更有信心另一方面如果對台糖的部分不要說是一般台糖就其他甚至豬農會遇到這樣的狀況下我認為農業部都應該都應該更繼續如果確保他是安全的都應該給予協助他們盡快度過這個難關\n\n07:39.537 --> 07:53.870\n因為他是台糖是國家的虧也是虧人民的那當然我認為這事情應該要有更積極的一些處理啦好不好我希望他們是安全的是那個話那就應該讓他們能夠能夠讓他們能夠順利的上架要不然這個損失會持續的擴大好不好\n\n07:57.854 --> 08:16.586\n再我請教一下當然也要謝謝這個農業部來支持錢振宇港的我這要講的是這樣啦半年前的時候我們錢振宇港幾乎是被抹了半年的時間啦那最後從一開始不管是從3000萬的簡單的整理的部分到後來我們爭取那還是我擔任的時候來爭取的10億的一個\n\n08:21.069 --> 08:43.538\n這個那到後來院長們大概看到下水道50年沒做包括周邊的船員服務中心該做外勞來這邊外籍的漁工來這邊的時候被看到在路邊洗澡叫在洗澡然後這些都讓台灣的國際形象是不好那我們都知道一類漁港這是中央主管的漁港50年來沒做的事情我認為做這件事情都是應該的啦那我覺得這一段時間其實是被這樣的不斷的\n\n08:44.918 --> 09:09.110\n公職跟抹黑這半年來我沒有看到任何人有去檢舉甚至去檢調去查甚至什麼都沒有罵完之後就跑跑了以後就沒事了我認為其實這國家的建設不應該是這樣的發展我也認為部長怎麼看待這整件事情我想當初前面漁港的一個擴建當然他有他的時間跟時間序那最後核定的其實當初的蘇院長\n\n09:30.131 --> 09:46.841\n就是很多該做的事情後來爭取到該做的時候建設本來就是該進行的你把那個東西去抹黑它去攻擊甚至是不是有歪戈是不是有貪汙這個都過頭了這半年來完全沒有任何一個案子去立案去調查連檢舉都沒有檢舉所以我的意思說如果像這樣的事情有的話我還是希望未來農業部要更積極的去做澄清跟說明我也認為社會臺灣如果要進步不應該朝這個方向走\n\n09:54.825 --> 10:21.094\n正正的嘴巴如果都是這樣隨意亂講不負責任的講的話其實對所有認真做事的公務員都是不公平的我舉個例子像我們的下水道工程已經在今年的1月7日完工了那整個下水道工程完工以後對於整個區域的排水的部分對於漁港的水就會非常乾淨高雄市是指甲市啦高雄市只有這個地點是50年來還沒有做下水道的所以就是凸顯出本來就該進行的事情好不好我希望這個\n\n10:22.254 --> 10:41.906\n最後一個問題我請教一下鮮乳的部分國內很多人很喜歡用鮮乳也喜歡鮮乳但是我們現在鮮乳的部分當時有提到就是國外的一些乳品進到台灣來我們鮮乳是14天國外的可能可以到90天那部長原先有講到一個月內會提出鮮乳跟非鮮乳的一些明確定義方案這個出來了嗎\n\n10:42.987 --> 11:07.632\n我想我們已經跟我們的所謂的乳品業者也相關的討論然後也初步有在規劃一些已經送到在應該在2月底應該3月底之前會送到送到行政院沒有送到衛生部那邊去討論那我要強調的是國外的因為最主要是殺菌的方法因為有低溫有高溫有超高溫的部分還有後續的包裝是不是在無菌的狀態之下\n\n11:09.192 --> 11:31.917\n所以這個部分我們希望說用長效率的方式我只是希望適度的讓國人知道啦一方面也做一些區隔一方面也是讓國人知道說我們自己的產品其實是14天內的我跟委員報告其實以我們國內的技術我們要3個月也可以可是相對的就是說國人的購買的信息對我們的需求不需要拉到那麼長對不需要拉那麼高對所以其實\n\n11:32.777 --> 11:51.434\n但是我認為市場上如果有做一些那個的話其實會讓國人更好做一些選擇啦另外最後我也希望未來有機會也讓那個產地的標示也能夠也許思考就像我們的豬肉產地的標示一樣好不好就是說我覺得這個對台灣的一些我們的乳品相關的產業都會有相當的幫助啦\n\n","segments":[{"start":0.549,"end":9.136,"text":"請發言。我們謝謝議事主任,他把我們的麥克風關小一點,要不然早上聲音都很大,所以我們就關小一點。謝謝議事主任。謝謝,謝謝趙偉。請陳部長。我們請陳部長。"},{"start":20.873,"end":48.235,"text":"部長我想先請教一下這個豬肉的問題因為從2月2日臺中市的衛生單位發布這個臺糖的豬肉有瘦肉精之後那經過現在大概經過一個多月了那我想問一下現在就農業的最高主管機關角度臺灣的豬肉現在是不是安全的我想我先回答結論臺灣的豬肉是絕對百分之百安全而且沒有用乙型受體素"},{"start":48.922,"end":56.347,"text":"那在2月2日案件發生臺東市檢測案件出來的時候其實我們比大家更緊張因為我們是負責整個產業的的一個豬所以我們馬上針對上市前的養豬場"},{"start":64.502,"end":64.862,"text":"我講專家會議最後"},{"start":84.242,"end":84.262,"text":"農業部"},{"start":115.703,"end":134.993,"text":"認為到目前的所有的資料沒有證據去顯示我們的台灣的豬場是有飼養就是有用這個已經受理數當作添加物部長那這樣子到底這事情是怎麼發生的就專家們的看法我想前市場的部分大概專家的一致認為就是從檢測的結果來看是"},{"start":136.954,"end":137.254,"text":"這個禮拜應該會出來"},{"start":165.253,"end":188.369,"text":"我瞭解是3月初大 本來說3月初嘛今天已經3月初了實案辦應該會做一些 我跟你說這個事情其實是當然我們經過這樣檢測當然大家對於台灣的豬肉是有信心的啦也都沒有問題的但是總是有一個更確切的出來之後總是一個更科學更用專家的一個調查出來的結果讓國人更加的放心那也同時也瞭解為什麼這事情會這樣子發生啦我們希望確保"},{"start":190.41,"end":205.772,"text":"台灣的豬肉也確保未來台灣大家食安上的一個安全是大家更有信心的我想食安辦最後會中整兩個部會本身的那我再問一下部長啦就這件事情這樣的發生有沒有什麼樣的一些標準作業程序上面是出了一些問題可以更加改進的"},{"start":206.312,"end":233.184,"text":"我想在整個的我們農業部負責的這個就是市場上市前的這些部分應該我們的農民因為現在的租價也還不錯的價格他沒有任何理由因為乙型受理術也是禁用的沒有任何理由去使用這個乙型受理術這是第一個部分那至於後市場的檢驗的部分那其實很多檢驗的部分以農業部來講我們做檢驗的時候當然都會多抽取幾件做備份"},{"start":234.095,"end":258.906,"text":"萬一檢測的時候會有一些可能的誤差的時候還可以啟動另外我舉例好了啦如果現在是由農業部去查到這樣的狀況下的時候那你們會不會更謹慎來做一個我想以農業部的的檢測的一個流程裡面來講我們會分兩個部分齁就是當他的數值比較接近於檢測極限的時候很接近的時候對然後他的本身的檢測的那個那個"},{"start":263.386,"end":287.433,"text":"我們就會更謹慎地去拿另外一個備份的樣品去重新做檢測然後檢測出來如果結果一致性的時候才會去做後續的處理我希望這些東西都在未來啦我們都希望這樣的事情應該去那個就是說我也希望除了衛生單位的一些經驗我也希望農業單位因為你們是租租資的這個主管租農的權益都在你們的手上"},{"start":287.813,"end":305.41,"text":"我也希望你們能夠適度的表達一些意見給所有的各政府單位在這件事情上面能夠更加謹慎的想因為就我們的常理的判斷台糖它是國營事業基本上沒有去造假的利益的空間更何況這個東西它沒有實際成本上面沒有就是你看不到它的動機"},{"start":306.571,"end":330.949,"text":"所以沒有動機狀態下的時候 當發生事情的時候 恐怕必須要再三去推救他為什麼會發生這樣的狀況 這樣恐怕比較不會產生現在發生的事件是台糖 若是一般的豬農的話 這個豬農恐怕承受不了這一個月這樣的處理所以我說這段時間豬價都很不錯 但是我也認為也因為發生這個事件之後 我相信國人在使用豬肉產品的時候 一定受到很大的一個影響"},{"start":331.63,"end":354.787,"text":"⋯⋯⋯"},{"start":354.827,"end":355.127,"text":"我希望農業部要表達意見"},{"start":383.433,"end":406.955,"text":"台糖也是豬農萬一這是其他一般的豬農的話那恐怕大概是倒定了啦對啊他後面的球場恐怕先倒了在球場還不知道球場什麼時候所以我意思說我認為這件事情應該農業部還是要有他的立場在我再舉個例子好了啦我自己其實本身我都會買台糖的豬肉你看這段時間到昨天到今天早上說台糖的梅花肉到現在是完全捕獲中捕獲中"},{"start":408.237,"end":408.677,"text":"您知道他申請了嗎?"},{"start":438.559,"end":452.151,"text":"我瞭解在上個禮拜他們有說他們會去申請我例如說一方面我希望這個調查盡快出來因為出來的時候大家更有信心另一方面如果對台糖的部分不要說是一般台糖就其他甚至豬農會遇到這樣的狀況下我認為農業部都應該都應該更繼續如果確保他是安全的都應該給予協助他們盡快度過這個難關"},{"start":459.537,"end":473.87,"text":"因為他是台糖是國家的虧也是虧人民的那當然我認為這事情應該要有更積極的一些處理啦好不好我希望他們是安全的是那個話那就應該讓他們能夠能夠讓他們能夠順利的上架要不然這個損失會持續的擴大好不好"},{"start":477.854,"end":496.586,"text":"再我請教一下 當然也要謝謝這個 農業部來支持錢振宇港的我這要講的是這樣啦 半年前的時候我們錢振宇港幾乎是被抹了半年的時間啦那最後從一開始不管是從3000萬的簡單的整理的部分到後來我們爭取 那還是我擔任的時候來爭取的10億的一個"},{"start":501.069,"end":523.538,"text":"這個那到後來院長們大概看到下水道50年沒做包括周邊的船員服務中心該做外勞來這邊外籍的漁工來這邊的時候被看到在路邊洗澡叫在洗澡然後這些都讓台灣的國際形象是不好那我們都知道一類漁港這是中央主管的漁港50年來沒做的事情我認為做這件事情都是應該的啦那我覺得這一段時間其實是被這樣的不斷的"},{"start":524.918,"end":549.11,"text":"公職跟抹黑這半年來我沒有看到任何人有去檢舉甚至去檢調去查甚至什麼都沒有罵完之後就跑跑了以後就沒事了我認為其實這國家的建設不應該是這樣的發展我也認為部長怎麼看待這整件事情我想當初前面漁港的一個擴建當然他有他的時間跟時間序那最後核定的其實當初的蘇院長"},{"start":549.65,"end":570.111,"text":"對﹖"},{"start":570.131,"end":586.841,"text":"就是很多該做的事情後來爭取到該做的時候建設本來就是該進行的你把那個東西去抹黑它去攻擊甚至是不是有歪戈是不是有貪汙這個都過頭了這半年來完全沒有任何一個案子去立案去調查連檢舉都沒有檢舉所以我的意思說如果像這樣的事情有的話我還是希望未來農業部要更積極的去做澄清跟說明我也認為社會臺灣如果要進步不應該朝這個方向走"},{"start":594.825,"end":621.094,"text":"正正的嘴巴如果都是這樣隨意亂講不負責任的講的話其實對所有認真做事的公務員都是不公平的我舉個例子像我們的下水道工程已經在今年的1月7日完工了那整個下水道工程完工以後對於整個區域的排水的部分對於漁港的水就會非常乾淨高雄市是指甲市啦高雄市只有這個地點是50年來還沒有做下水道的所以就是凸顯出本來就該進行的事情好不好我希望這個"},{"start":622.254,"end":641.906,"text":"最後一個問題我請教一下鮮乳的部分 國內很多人很喜歡用鮮乳也喜歡鮮乳但是我們現在鮮乳的部分當時有提到就是國外的一些乳品進到台灣來 我們鮮乳是14天 國外的可能可以到90天那部長原先有講到一個月內會提出鮮乳跟非鮮乳的一些明確定義方案 這個出來了嗎"},{"start":642.987,"end":667.632,"text":"我想我們已經跟我們的所謂的乳品業者也相關的討論然後也初步有在規劃一些已經送到在應該在2月底應該3月底之前會送到送到行政院沒有送到衛生部那邊去討論那我要強調的是國外的因為最主要是殺菌的方法因為有低溫有高溫有超高溫的部分還有後續的包裝是不是在無菌的狀態之下"},{"start":669.192,"end":691.917,"text":"所以這個部分我們希望說用長效率的方式我只是希望適度的讓國人知道啦一方面也做一些區隔一方面也是讓國人知道說我們自己的產品其實是14天內的我跟委員報告其實以我們國內的技術我們要3個月也可以可是相對的就是說國人的購買的信息對我們的需求不需要拉到那麼長對不需要拉那麼高對所以其實"},{"start":692.777,"end":711.434,"text":"但是我認為市場上如果有做一些那個的話其實會讓國人更好做一些選擇啦另外最後我也希望未來有機會也讓那個產地的標示也能夠也許思考就像我們的豬肉產地的標示一樣好不好就是說我覺得這個對台灣的一些我們的乳品相關的產業都會有相當的幫助啦"}]}}}}