{"id":149273,"url":"https://ivod.ly.gov.tw/Play/Clip/1M/149273","video_url":"https://ivod-lyvod.cdn.hinet.net/vod_1/_definst_/mp4:1MClips/ad9f873b941d2ddd32023d8643b03d7ae0c93a942a018238f8ba9b0039caa7a69bf675f76cd7c0d35ea18f28b6918d91.mp4/playlist.m3u8","委員名稱":"李坤城","委員發言時間":"11:33:18 - 11:45:24","影片長度":"00:12:06","會議時間":"2024-03-04T09:00:00+08:00","會議名稱":"立法院第11屆第1會期財政委員會第2次全體委員會議（事由：邀請金融監督管理委員會黃主任委員天牧率所屬機關首長暨中央存款保險股份有限公司、監管相關機構有關之財團法人、臺灣證券交易所股份有限公司、臺灣期貨交易所股份有限公司、臺灣集中保管結算所股份有限公司等董事長、總經理列席業務報告，並備質詢。\n【3月4日及7日二天一次會】）","meet":{"tmpMeeting":null,"title":"第11屆第1會期財政委員會第2次全體委員會議","term":11,"type":"委員會","sessionPeriod":1,"sessionTimes":2,"committees":[20],"id":"委員會-11-1-20-2"},"date":"2024-03-04","duration":726,"end_time":"2024-03-04T11:45:24+08:00","start_time":"2024-03-04T11:33:18+08:00","features":["ai-transcript","gazette"],"type":"Clip","gazette":{"lineno":615,"blocks":[["李委員坤城：（11時33分）謝謝主席，請黃主委，先讓主委喝口茶。黃主委好。"],["黃主任委員天牧：是，委員早。"],["李委員坤城：辛苦了！一早上也問了這麼多回了，我先請教一下，在2020年的時候受到新冠肺炎疫情的影響，所以金管會就停赴中國實地金檢，然後我看你們在2024年的預算書上面有提到說有計畫打算在今年3月到11月要赴中國金檢，但是去中國金檢必須跟中方事先取得聯繫同意之後才能成行嘛！然後這幾個禮拜以來，因為中國快艇非法越界逃避海巡查緝的翻船事件，兩岸的關係有那麼一點點緊張，我想請問一下主委，有沒有計畫要繼續到中國金檢？有跟中方聯繫嗎？預計何時會過去？"],["黃主任委員天牧：因為我們跟對岸有簽監理備忘錄，就是各國都一樣，要去對方實地金檢需要經過對方主管機關同意。"],["李委員坤城：對，我知道。"],["黃主任委員天牧：那今年會去，但是進度到什麼，是不是請局長跟你報告？"],["李委員坤城：對，我的意思是說有跟中方聯繫了嗎？因為我看預算書上面是有這個計畫。"],["張局長子浩：對，我們今年4月有這個計畫，目前正在跟陸委會報備中，陸委會如果它說同意了，我們就會進一步跟大陸這邊再做聯繫。"],["李委員坤城：所以現在是還要陸委會同意才跟中方聯繫？"],["張局長子浩：是。"],["李委員坤城：所以現在還沒跟中方聯繫就對了？"],["黃主任委員天牧：還沒有，對。"],["李委員坤城：那過去的時間呢？預計呢？"],["黃主任委員天牧：看聯繫的結果，就是陸委會這邊先給我們表示正面的意見之後，我們就會跟對方監理機關聯繫。"],["李委員坤城：好，所以是有打算要去就對了。"],["黃主任委員天牧：有。"],["李委員坤城：那就是等陸委會那邊的決定就對了。"],["黃主任委員天牧：不是，只是跟它確認……"],["李委員坤城：對，等陸委會那邊決定之後，再跟中方聯繫嘛！"],["黃主任委員天牧：確認它沒有任何其他的意見，我們就會跟對方監理機關去請教他們的意見。"],["李委員坤城：好。我有看你們的報告，其實你們在報告裡面第一點就提到了未來工作重點就是防制金融詐騙保障國人權益，大家所關心的真的就是打詐、詐騙，其實我們在選舉的時候就常常遇到，詐騙實在太氾濫了。當然我也知道政府做了很多的準備工作，其中你們有提到臨櫃關懷的成效，我看到112年攔阻的案件有增加，增加了3,321件，攔阻的金額也有增加，增加了33.48億元，這兩年來攔阻的金額大概是118億元，這是你們的報告，當然業務報告上面是寫「成效顯著」，這個也是為自己加油打氣啦！但是跟民眾的實際感受還是有落差。","我拿中正大學犯罪研究中心他們所公布的，當然這是111年，或許112年會比較高一點點，他們對於犯罪防制滿意度的調查研究報告，其中關於民眾對政府在詐騙犯罪防制的表現有超過半數啦！五成三還是不滿意，那表示政府所做的跟民眾的期待還是有落差。","我再拿刑事警察局的統計來做個說明，刑事警察局統計的詐騙案數，我就舉2022跟2023好了，詐騙的案數是增加的，從兩萬九增加到三萬七；財產的損失也是增加的，從73.2億增加到88.7億。對於攔阻金額，當然我們做了很多打詐的措施，包括臨櫃關懷等等，所以攔阻的金額也有增加，從50.5億到89.8億。","跟主委就教，當然從正面的說法來看，這兩年攔阻的金額有140億，但是財產損失方面有162億，財產損失還是比攔阻的還要多啊！這是刑事警察局的統計，然後就財產的損失跟攔阻的金額把它加起來，當作是一個詐騙的規模好了，在2022年是123億，就是財產損失加上攔阻金額，但是2023年就達到178億，所以整個攔阻金額加上詐騙的財產損失，實際上整個詐騙的規模還是增加的，想請教一下主委的看法？我當然知道政府很用心，打詐五法在去年5月底也都通過了，但是這個數字都還是增加的哦！"],["黃主任委員天牧：委員，其實詐騙有好幾個介面，剛才講的100億那是臨櫃關懷，另外還有比方說網路約定轉帳，還有投資詐騙，這些其實都不是剛才前面的數字所涵蓋的。其實我在報告中的第5頁跟第7頁都有講，今年第1季有些新的措施，就是灰名單的通報跟……"],["李委員坤城：好，那我就請教你新的措施。在3月1日有一個新的措施，這是按照洗錢防制法的規定，大概就是有關於人頭帳戶的限制嘛！"],["黃主任委員天牧：對，出借人頭帳戶他會得到他的裁罰。"],["李委員坤城：從3月1日開始嘛！"],["黃主任委員天牧：對。"],["李委員坤城：那我就按照警政署的數字好了，這個規定落實之後，因為是去年5月底啦！去年5月底我們打詐五法其中有關洗錢防制法是修正通過，然後它說到3月1日，依照法務部的新聞稿，到現在為止有超過1萬2,000人受到告誡處分，那就是說這1萬2,000人是適用這一個新的規定就對了？"],["黃主任委員天牧：是，他的帳戶功能跟額度都會受到限制。"],["李委員坤城：受到什麼樣的限制？"],["黃主任委員天牧：就是他也許一天只能使用一定的金額，或者他在轉帳各方面，等於說他自由使用金融這種帳戶的權利受到克制。"],["李委員坤城：我看你們新聞稿上面是寫大概每天轉帳不能超過1萬塊。"],["黃主任委員天牧：是。"],["李委員坤城：所以這個新法，洗錢防制法修正在去年5月30日通過之後，到現在3月1日，看這個數字大概有1萬2,000人受到告誡處分，這個是警察要做處理的嘛？"],["黃主任委員天牧：也要金融機構一起配合。"],["李委員坤城：好。我再請教一下主委，銀行及信用合作社警示帳戶，按照我這邊的數字，這個應該是金管會提供的，在112年6月30日，這個是累計的，有10萬4,000件，但是到了112年12月底到達十一萬八千多件，這個警示帳戶還是增加的啊！"],["黃主任委員天牧：警示帳戶應該是警政單位他們確定之後告訴銀行，它據以去對這個帳戶做一些功能的限制。"],["李委員坤城：對，我是說這個跟人頭帳戶呢？"],["黃主任委員天牧：這個就有可能是人頭帳戶。"],["李委員坤城：對啊！就是人頭帳戶嘛！我的意思是說，當然這個是半年的期間，打詐五法、洗錢防制法是5月30日通過，你們是3月1日才正式實施告誡處分，那這8個月來，我想請教這8個月來的人頭帳戶，就是警示帳戶，有沒有稍微下降一點？"],["黃主任委員天牧：其實還是有一些增加。我跟您報告，因為洗防法通過，通過子法，然後告誡帳戶處分的部分，銀行還要修系統，所以才會到3月1日，不是說中間沒有做事。"],["李委員坤城：好，我知道，3月1日實施。你們還有一個新的規定，約定轉帳，這是約定轉帳的，剛剛是講人頭帳戶，現在是約定轉帳有一個事前、事中、事後的管控措施，也是預計3月底要上路嗎？"],["黃主任委員天牧：是。"],["李委員坤城：那這個是指國營，國家的銀行，還是全部的銀行？"],["黃主任委員天牧：大家都要做。"],["李委員坤城：大家都要做，包含民營就對了？"],["黃主任委員天牧：都要做。"],["李委員坤城：全部都要做。"],["黃主任委員天牧：對。"],["李委員坤城：3月底所有的銀行就是要做你們這一個事前、事中、事後的管控措施？"],["黃主任委員天牧：是。"],["李委員坤城：那管控措施的內容主要是什麼？"],["黃主任委員天牧：我跟您報告，假如說我今天到銀行去匯錢，匯到B銀行的某個帳戶，那B銀行是收款的銀行，它就會跟我要匯款的銀行去確認這個帳戶是不是已經被其他人也同樣設定是約定轉帳，如果有很多設定就表示這個帳戶有可能是人頭帳戶，那就要通報之後，可能就告誡我不要再匯款。"],["李委員坤城：好，等於是說在3月有兩個新的措施，一個是人頭帳戶，一個是約定轉帳，那我是希望啦！當然先解決這個人頭帳戶、約定轉帳的問題，希望能夠把詐騙問題再解決。","最後再30秒。再請教一下，在你們的報告裡面第8頁有提到，這個是有關於另外一個啦！證券投資信託及顧問法，這是關於網路廣告的事情，你們說Meta是在6月底可以完成系統的調整，落實投資廣告實名制，那請問一下，除了Meta之外，Google呢？"],["黃主任委員天牧：應該都是6月底。"],["高副局長晶萍：Google已經有了，Google已經有實施實名制。Meta是說他們要修改系統，所以6月底會上線實名制。"],["李委員坤城：所以Google已經好了，已經有實施實名制了，那Meta是到6月底。"],["黃主任委員天牧：是。"],["李委員坤城：因為我看你們的報告，以為Meta是到6月底，然後Google還沒有處理。"],["黃主任委員天牧：如果照證期局提供的資訊，Google是已經完成了。"],["李委員坤城：最後，主席，我再借1分鐘。當然你們現在打詐五法通過，有關約定轉帳及人頭帳戶的事情有在處理，但是我還是要提醒主委，現在虛擬貨幣有可能成為詐騙集團的新歡，未來我們針對很多虛擬貨幣現在都成為詐騙集團人頭問題，那他們都是說我是個人幣商，然後個人幣商被檢警查到之後，就這個個人幣商到現在是行政裁罰了事，所以現在很多詐騙集團的教戰守則就是你被抓到你就說是個人幣商，對相關的交易不知情，常獲不起訴，這跟過去人頭帳戶、人頭戶的情況相當類似，所以我是建議啦！是不是在虛擬貨幣這方面還是要有一個管理的專法出來？"],["黃主任委員天牧：有，剛剛跟委員報告，我們會朝訂專法的方向努力。另外，也建議洗防法增加個人幣商或是境外幣商，就是這種幣商都要在洗防法登記的這個制度。"],["李委員坤城：你們這個專法大概預計何時會提出來？"],["黃主任委員天牧：大概9月份會完成。"],["李委員坤城：9月份會完成。"],["黃主任委員天牧：對。"],["李委員坤城：因為虛擬貨幣的確需要專法來做處理，我也希望能夠順利在9月底之前提出來，好不好？"],["黃主任委員天牧：是，我們儘快，謝謝委員。"],["李委員坤城：好，謝謝。"],["主席：謝謝李坤城委員的質詢。"],["李委員坤城：謝謝主席。"],["主席：接著請王世堅委員質詢。"]],"agenda":{"page_end":322,"meet_id":"委員會-11-1-20-2","speakers":["郭國文","吳秉叡","林德福","賴士葆","賴惠員","王鴻薇","陳玉珍","伍麗華Saidhai‧Tahovecahe","顏寬恒","黃珊珊","李坤城","王世堅","李彥秀","謝衣鳯","葛如鈞","邱志偉","黃國昌","林楚茵","羅明才","楊瓊瓔"],"page_start":269,"meetingDate":["2024-03-04"],"gazette_id":"1130701","agen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1.0}, {\"word\": \"聯\"}, {\"word\": \"繫\"}, {\"word\": \"嗎\"}, {\"word\": \"那\", \"start\": 54.346, \"end\": 54.366, \"score\": 0.0}, {\"word\": \"預\"}, {\"word\": \"計\"}, {\"word\": \"何\", \"start\": 54.366, \"end\": 54.386, \"score\": 0.0}, {\"word\": \"時\"}, {\"word\": \"會\"}, {\"word\": \"過\"}, {\"word\": \"去\", \"start\": 54.386, \"end\": 54.406, \"score\": 0.0}]}, {\"start\": 58.414, \"end\": 86.117, \"text\": \"因為我們跟對岸有千里千里備忘錄所以各國都一樣要去對方實地監檢需要經過對方主管機關同意那今年會去但是進度到什麼是不是請局長給你報告我意思是說有跟中方聯繫了嗎因為我看預算書上面是有這個計畫對我們今天是有這個計畫目前正在跟那個陸委會在報備中陸委會如果他說同意了我們就會進一步再跟大陸這邊再做聯繫\", \"words\": [{\"word\": \"因\", \"start\": 58.414, \"end\": 58.775, \"score\": 0.933}, {\"word\": \"為\"}, {\"word\": \"我\", \"start\": 58.775, \"end\": 59.135, \"score\": 0.93}, {\"word\": \"們\"}, {\"word\": \"跟\", \"start\": 59.135, \"end\": 59.495, \"score\": 0.942}, {\"word\": \"對\"}, {\"word\": \"岸\", \"start\": 59.495, \"end\": 59.675, \"score\": 0.889}, {\"word\": \"有\", \"start\": 59.675, \"end\": 59.895, \"score\": 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\"end\": 686.114, \"score\": 0.905}, {\"word\": \"訂\"}, {\"word\": \"專\"}, {\"word\": \"法\", \"start\": 686.114, \"end\": 686.255, \"score\": 0.857}, {\"word\": \"的\", \"start\": 686.255, \"end\": 686.375, \"score\": 0.998}, {\"word\": \"方\", \"start\": 686.375, \"end\": 686.555, \"score\": 0.89}, {\"word\": \"向\", \"start\": 686.555, \"end\": 686.775, \"score\": 0.992}, {\"word\": \"努\", \"start\": 686.775, \"end\": 686.956, \"score\": 0.989}, {\"word\": \"力\", \"start\": 686.956, \"end\": 687.156, \"score\": 0.992}, {\"word\": \"另\", \"start\": 687.156, \"end\": 687.276, \"score\": 0.822}, {\"word\": \"外\", \"start\": 687.276, \"end\": 687.417, \"score\": 0.976}, {\"word\": \"也\", \"start\": 687.417, \"end\": 687.577, \"score\": 0.973}, {\"word\": \"建\", \"start\": 687.577, \"end\": 688.398, \"score\": 0.948}, {\"word\": \"議\"}, {\"word\": \"洗\", \"start\": 688.398, \"end\": 688.538, \"score\": 0.857}, {\"word\": \"房\", \"start\": 688.538, \"end\": 688.779, \"score\": 0.941}, {\"word\": \"法\", \"start\": 688.779, \"end\": 689.039, \"score\": 0.995}, {\"word\": \"增\", \"start\": 689.039, \"end\": 689.2, \"score\": 0.921}, {\"word\": \"加\", \"start\": 689.2, \"end\": 689.46, \"score\": 0.996}, {\"word\": \"一\", \"start\": 689.46, \"end\": 689.921, \"score\": 0.846}, {\"word\": \"個\"}, {\"word\": \"個\"}, {\"word\": \"人\", \"start\": 689.921, \"end\": 690.081, \"score\": 0.999}, {\"word\": \"避\", \"start\": 690.081, \"end\": 690.502, \"score\": 0.908}, {\"word\": \"傷\"}, {\"word\": \"或\", \"start\": 690.502, \"end\": 690.622, \"score\": 0.99}, {\"word\": \"是\", \"start\": 690.622, \"end\": 690.782, \"score\": 0.872}, {\"word\": \"境\", \"start\": 690.782, \"end\": 690.903, \"score\": 0.834}, {\"word\": \"外\", \"start\": 690.903, \"end\": 691.103, \"score\": 0.823}, {\"word\": \"避\", \"start\": 691.103, \"end\": 691.504, \"score\": 0.915}, {\"word\": \"傷\"}, {\"word\": \"都\", \"start\": 691.504, \"end\": 691.624, \"score\": 0.986}, {\"word\": \"要\", \"start\": 691.624, \"end\": 691.944, \"score\": 0.997}, {\"word\": \"就\", \"start\": 691.944, \"end\": 692.065, \"score\": 0.995}, {\"word\": \"是\", \"start\": 692.065, \"end\": 692.605, \"score\": 0.867}, {\"word\": \"這\"}, {\"word\": \"種\"}, {\"word\": \"避\", \"start\": 692.605, \"end\": 692.986, \"score\": 0.87}, {\"word\": \"傷\"}, {\"word\": \"要\", \"start\": 692.986, \"end\": 693.287, \"score\": 1.0}, {\"word\": \"在\", \"start\": 693.287, \"end\": 693.587, \"score\": 0.999}, {\"word\": \"洗\", \"start\": 693.587, \"end\": 693.727, \"score\": 0.857}, {\"word\": \"房\", \"start\": 693.727, \"end\": 693.968, \"score\": 0.92}, {\"word\": \"法\", \"start\": 693.968, \"end\": 694.389, \"score\": 0.99}, {\"word\": \"登\", \"start\": 694.389, \"end\": 694.729, \"score\": 0.881}, {\"word\": \"記\"}, {\"word\": \"的\", \"start\": 694.729, \"end\": 695.11, \"score\": 0.871}, {\"word\": \"這\"}, {\"word\": \"個\"}, {\"word\": \"制\", \"start\": 695.11, \"end\": 695.29, \"score\": 0.999}, {\"word\": \"度\", \"start\": 695.29, \"end\": 695.45, \"score\": 0.997}, {\"word\": \"了\", \"start\": 695.45, \"end\": 695.47, \"score\": 0.994}, {\"word\": \"王\", \"start\": 695.896, \"end\": 695.936, \"score\": 0.5}, {\"word\": \"世\", \"start\": 695.936, \"end\": 696.256, \"score\": 0.937}, {\"word\": \"堅\"}, {\"word\": \"委\", \"start\": 696.256, \"end\": 696.276, \"score\": 0.0}, {\"word\": \"員\"}], \"language\": \"zh\"}","srt":"1\n00:00:00,029 --> 00:00:03,132\n在2020年受到新冠肺炎疫情影響,金管會停付中國實力精簡。\n\n2\n00:00:16,448 --> 00:00:34,469\n然後我看你們在2024年的預算書上面有提到說有計劃打算在今年3月到11月要赴中國經檢但是去中國經檢都必須跟中方事先先取得聯繫同意之後才能成行\n\n3\n00:00:36,551 --> 00:00:54,406\n這幾個禮拜以來因為中國快艇的非法越界逃避海巡查緝的翻船事件兩岸的關係有這麼一點點緊張那我想請問一下主委這個有沒有這個計畫繼續這個要到中國經檢那有跟中方聯繫嗎那預計何時會過去\n\n4\n00:00:58,414 --> 00:01:26,117\n因為我們跟對岸有千里千里備忘錄所以各國都一樣要去對方實地監檢需要經過對方主管機關同意那今年會去但是進度到什麼是不是請局長給你報告我意思是說有跟中方聯繫了嗎因為我看預算書上面是有這個計畫對我們今天是有這個計畫目前正在跟那個陸委會在報備中陸委會如果他說同意了我們就會進一步再跟大陸這邊再做聯繫\n\n5\n00:01:27,423 --> 00:01:32,915\n所以現在是還要陸委會同意才跟中方聯繫?所以現在還沒跟中方聯繫就對了?還沒有那過去的時間預計呢?\n\n6\n00:01:40,526 --> 00:02:01,812\n就是看聯繫的結果就是陸委會這邊先給我們表示正面的意見之後我們就會跟對方監理機關聯繫所以是有打算要去就對了有那就是等陸委會那邊的決定就對了不是只是等陸委會決定之後再跟中方聯繫嘛確認他沒有任何其他的意見我們就會跟對方監理機關去跟他請教他們的意見\n\n7\n00:02:03,612 --> 00:02:23,658\n好這個我有看你們的這個報告啦那其實你們這個報告裡面第一點就提到了這個未來工作重點就是防制金融詐騙保障國人權益那真的是這個大家所關心的就是打詐騙那其實我們在這個選舉的時候常常就遇到說這個詐騙實在太氾濫了\n\n8\n00:02:25,098 --> 00:02:44,543\n當然我也知道說政府是做了很多的準備的工作那其中你們有提到說林桂關懷的成效那當然我看就是說就112年這個攔阻的這個案件有增加增加了這個3321件攔阻的金額也有增加增加了33.48億元\n\n9\n00:02:48,105 --> 00:03:04,378\n這兩年來藍組的金額大概是118億這是你們的報告當然業務報告上面寫說這個是成效顯著也是為自己的加油打氣但是跟民眾的實際的感受\n\n10\n00:03:05,439 --> 00:03:21,219\n還是有落差的我拿這個中正大學犯罪研究中心他們所公布的當然這是111年或許112年會比較高一點點他們對於這個犯罪防治滿意度的調查研究報告其中啊\n\n11\n00:03:22,080 --> 00:03:45,114\n關於說民眾對政府在詐騙、犯罪防治的表現有超過半數五成三還是不滿意那表示說政府所做的跟民眾的期待還是有落差那我再拿這個刑事警察局的統計來做個說明這個刑事警察局統計這個詐騙的案數我就舉2022跟2023好了詐騙的案數是增加的從2萬9增加到3萬7\n\n12\n00:03:52,218 --> 00:03:56,701\n財產的損失也是增加的,從73.2億增加到88.7億。攔阻金額也有增加,從50.5億到89.8億。從正面的說法來看,\n\n13\n00:04:15,639 --> 00:04:35,531\n這兩年攔阻的金額有140億但是財產損失方面有160億財產損失還是比攔阻的還要多這是刑事警察局的統計然後就財產損失跟攔阻的金額把它加起來當作是一個詐騙的規模好了\n\n14\n00:04:38,717 --> 00:05:05,171\n在2022年是123億就是財產損失加上攬主金額的但是2023年就達到178億所以整個攬主金額加上這個詐騙的財產損失實際上整個詐騙的規模還是增加的想請教一下主委的看法我當然知道政府很用心打詐無法在去年5月底的都通過了但是這個數字都還是增加的\n\n15\n00:05:07,076 --> 00:05:35,770\n委員其實詐騙有好幾個界面那剛才講的一百億那是零貴關懷那另外還有比如說網路約定轉帳還有投資詐騙這些其實都不是剛才前面的數字所涵蓋的那其實我在報告中的第五頁跟第七頁都有講今年第一季有些新的措施就揮名單的通報好那我就請教你新的措施在3月1號有一個新的措施這是按照這個洗錢防治法的一個規定\n\n16\n00:05:38,311 --> 00:05:55,221\n這個大概就是有關於這個人頭賬戶的限制嘛對,初屆人頭賬戶他得到他的一個裁罰對,從3月1號開始嘛對那我是按照這個警政署的一個數字好了齁我看看齁這個規定\n\n17\n00:05:58,592 --> 00:06:23,206\n這個規定落實之後啦因為是去年5月底啦去年5月底這個我們這個打詐無法其中有關洗錢房市法修正的通過然後呢他說到3月1號法務部的新聞稿到現在為止有超過一萬兩千人受到告誡的處分那就是說這一萬兩千人是適用這個新的規定就對了是他的帳戶的功能跟額度都會受到限制受到什麼樣的限制\n\n18\n00:06:23,854 --> 00:06:52,197\n就是他也許每天一天只能使用一定的金額或他轉帳各方面都有他等於說他的自由使用的金融的這種帳戶的權利受到克制我看你們新聞稿上面是寫的大概每天轉帳不能超過一萬塊啦是阿所以說這個新法這個這個洗錢防治法修正在去年5月30號通過之後到現在3月1號看這個數字大概有一萬兩千人受到告誡的處分這個是警察在做處理的嘛\n\n19\n00:06:53,662 --> 00:07:01,948\n也要金融機構一起配合我再請教一下主委銀行還有信用合作社警示賬戶按照我這邊的數字這個應該是金管會提供的\n\n20\n00:07:09,281 --> 00:07:31,930\n在112年6月30號是累計的有10萬4千件但是到了112年12月底到了11萬8千多件這個警示帳戶還是增加的警示帳戶應該是警政單位他們確定之後告訴銀行去具以去對這個帳戶去做一些功能的限制我說這個跟人頭帳戶勒\n\n21\n00:07:33,873 --> 00:07:40,095\n這個就是有可能是人頭賬戶嗎?對,那我的意思是說,那當然這個是半年的期間,打債務法期間,防治法是5月30號通過,那你們是3月1號才正式實施這個告誡的處分,那當然這8個月來,我想請教這8個月來,這個人頭賬戶,就是這個檢視賬戶有沒有稍微下降一點?\n\n22\n00:07:58,227 --> 00:08:11,241\n其實還是有一些增加啦那我跟您報告因為洗房法通過通過執法然後這個告誡賬戶處分的部分還要銀行修系統所以才會到3月1號\n\n23\n00:08:13,257 --> 00:08:33,726\n不是說中間沒有做事了好我知道那3月1號這個實施齁那還有你們還有一個新的規定約定轉帳這是約定轉帳的齁剛剛是講人頭帳我現在是約定轉帳有一個事前事中事後的管控措施也是預計3月底要上路嗎是那這個是指這個呃國營國家的銀行\n\n24\n00:08:38,203 --> 00:08:52,257\n還是全部的銀行?大家都要做大家都要做包含民營就最多要做全部都要做對這個3月底所有的銀行就是要做這個你們這個事前事中事後的管控的措施是\n\n25\n00:08:52,998 --> 00:09:21,163\n那廣東措施內容主要是什麼?我跟您報告假如說我今天會我今天到銀行去匯錢匯到B銀行的某個帳戶那B銀行是收款的這個銀行他就會跟這個這個我要匯款的銀行去確認這個帳戶是不是已經被其他人已經有有同樣的設定是約定轉帳若有很多設定就表示這個帳戶有可能是人頭帳戶那就要通報之後就可能告誡我不要再匯款好那等於說在3月有兩個新的措施一個是人頭帳戶\n\n26\n00:09:22,923 --> 00:09:50,796\n然後一個是這個約定轉帳那我是希望啦先解決這個人頭帳戶約定轉帳的問題希望能夠把詐騙問題再解決最後30秒再請教一下這個在你們報告裡面第8頁有提到這個是有關於這個另外一個啦證券投資信託及顧問法這是關於這個網路廣告的事情你們說在Meta是在6月底可以完成系統的調整落實投資廣告實名制\n\n27\n00:09:51,716 --> 00:10:19,937\n那請問一下除了這個Meta之外那Google呢?應該都是6月底Google已經有了Google其實它已經有實施實名制那Meta是說他們要修改系統所以6月底會上線實名制所以Google已經好了已經有實施實名制了那Meta到6月底看你們的報告以為是說這個Meta6月底然後Google還沒有處理\n\n28\n00:10:22,194 --> 00:10:40,387\n如果照政局提供的資訊是Google已經有完成了我在最後主席我再借一分鐘就是說當然你們現在打仗無法通過然後這個有關這個約定展帳然後人頭帳戶的事情有在處理但是我還是要提醒主委就是說現在虛擬貨幣有可能成為詐騙集團的新歡\n\n29\n00:10:44,912 --> 00:11:02,610\n就是說這個未來我們針對這個很多這個虛擬貨幣現在都成為這個詐騙集團人頭問題那他們都是說我是個人幣商那個人幣商呢這個檢警查到之後呢就這個個人幣商呢到現在呢行政裁罰了事\n\n30\n00:11:03,612 --> 00:11:21,993\n所以現在很多詐騙集團交戰守則就是說你被抓到你就是個人避傷對相關的交易不知情、償貨不起訴這跟過去人頭貨的情況相當類似所以我是建議是不是在虛擬貨幣這方面還是要有一個管理的專法出來\n\n31\n00:11:23,069 --> 00:11:35,470\n有關跟委員報告我們會朝訂專法的方向努力另外也建議洗房法增加一個個人避傷或是境外避傷都要就是這種避傷要在洗房法登記的這個制度了\n\n32\n00:11:35,896 --> 00:11:36,276\n王世堅委員\n\n","tsv":"start\tend\ttext\n29\t3132\t在2020年受到新冠肺炎疫情影響,金管會停付中國實力精簡。\n16448\t34469\t然後我看你們在2024年的預算書上面有提到說有計劃打算在今年3月到11月要赴中國經檢但是去中國經檢都必須跟中方事先先取得聯繫同意之後才能成行\n36551\t54406\t這幾個禮拜以來因為中國快艇的非法越界逃避海巡查緝的翻船事件兩岸的關係有這麼一點點緊張那我想請問一下主委這個有沒有這個計畫繼續這個要到中國經檢那有跟中方聯繫嗎那預計何時會過去\n58414\t86117\t因為我們跟對岸有千里千里備忘錄所以各國都一樣要去對方實地監檢需要經過對方主管機關同意那今年會去但是進度到什麼是不是請局長給你報告我意思是說有跟中方聯繫了嗎因為我看預算書上面是有這個計畫對我們今天是有這個計畫目前正在跟那個陸委會在報備中陸委會如果他說同意了我們就會進一步再跟大陸這邊再做聯繫\n87423\t92915\t所以現在是還要陸委會同意才跟中方聯繫?所以現在還沒跟中方聯繫就對了?還沒有那過去的時間預計呢?\n100526\t121812\t就是看聯繫的結果就是陸委會這邊先給我們表示正面的意見之後我們就會跟對方監理機關聯繫所以是有打算要去就對了有那就是等陸委會那邊的決定就對了不是只是等陸委會決定之後再跟中方聯繫嘛確認他沒有任何其他的意見我們就會跟對方監理機關去跟他請教他們的意見\n123612\t143658\t好 這個我有看你們的這個報告啦那其實你們這個報告裡面第一點就提到了這個未來工作重點就是防制金融詐騙保障國人權益那真的是這個大家所關心的就是打詐騙那其實我們在這個選舉的時候常常就遇到說這個詐騙實在太氾濫了\n145098\t164543\t當然我也知道說政府是做了很多的準備的工作那其中你們有提到說林桂關懷的成效那當然我看就是說就112年這個攔阻的這個案件有增加增加了這個3321件攔阻的金額也有增加增加了33.48億元\n168105\t184378\t這兩年來藍組的金額大概是118億這是你們的報告當然業務報告上面寫說這個是成效顯著也是為自己的加油打氣但是跟民眾的實際的感受\n185439\t201219\t還是有落差的我拿這個中正大學犯罪研究中心他們所公布的當然這是111年或許112年會比較高一點點他們對於這個犯罪防治滿意度的調查研究報告其中啊\n202080\t225114\t關於說民眾對政府在詐騙、犯罪防治的表現有超過半數五成三還是不滿意那表示說政府所做的跟民眾的期待還是有落差那我再拿這個刑事警察局的統計來做個說明這個刑事警察局統計這個詐騙的案數我就舉2022跟2023好了詐騙的案數是增加的從2萬9增加到3萬7\n232218\t236701\t財產的損失也是增加的,從73.2億增加到88.7億。攔阻金額也有增加,從50.5億到89.8億。從正面的說法來看,\n255639\t275531\t這兩年攔阻的金額有140億但是財產損失方面有160億財產損失還是比攔阻的還要多這是刑事警察局的統計然後就財產損失跟攔阻的金額把它加起來當作是一個詐騙的規模好了\n278717\t305171\t在2022年是123億就是財產損失加上攬主金額的但是2023年就達到178億所以整個攬主金額加上這個詐騙的財產損失實際上整個詐騙的規模還是增加的想請教一下主委的看法我當然知道政府很用心打詐無法在去年5月底的都通過了但是這個數字都還是增加的\n307076\t335770\t委員其實詐騙有好幾個界面那剛才講的一百億那是零貴關懷那另外還有比如說網路約定轉帳還有投資詐騙這些其實都不是剛才前面的數字所涵蓋的那其實我在報告中的第五頁跟第七頁都有講今年第一季有些新的措施就揮名單的通報好那我就請教你新的措施在3月1號有一個新的措施這是按照這個洗錢防治法的一個規定\n338311\t355221\t這個大概就是有關於這個人頭賬戶的限制嘛對,初屆人頭賬戶他得到他的一個裁罰對,從3月1號開始嘛對那我是按照這個警政署的一個數字好了齁我看看齁這個規定\n358592\t383206\t這個規定落實之後啦因為是去年5月底啦去年5月底這個我們這個打詐無法其中有關洗錢房市法修正的通過然後呢他說到3月1號法務部的新聞稿到現在為止有超過一萬兩千人受到告誡的處分那就是說這一萬兩千人是適用這個新的規定就對了是他的帳戶的功能跟額度都會受到限制受到什麼樣的限制\n383854\t412197\t就是他也許每天一天只能使用一定的金額或他轉帳各方面都有他等於說他的自由使用的金融的這種帳戶的權利受到克制我看你們新聞稿上面是寫的大概每天轉帳不能超過一萬塊啦是阿所以說這個新法這個這個洗錢防治法修正在去年5月30號通過之後到現在3月1號看這個數字大概有一萬兩千人受到告誡的處分這個是警察在做處理的嘛\n413662\t421948\t也要金融機構一起配合我再請教一下主委銀行還有信用合作社警示賬戶按照我這邊的數字這個應該是金管會提供的\n429281\t451930\t在112年6月30號是累計的有10萬4千件但是到了112年12月底到了11萬8千多件這個警示帳戶還是增加的警示帳戶應該是警政單位他們確定之後告訴銀行去具以去對這個帳戶去做一些功能的限制我說這個跟人頭帳戶勒\n453873\t460095\t這個就是有可能是人頭賬戶嗎?對,那我的意思是說,那當然這個是半年的期間,打債務法期間,防治法是5月30號通過,那你們是3月1號才正式實施這個告誡的處分,那當然這8個月來,我想請教這8個月來,這個人頭賬戶,就是這個檢視賬戶有沒有稍微下降一點?\n478227\t491241\t其實還是有一些增加啦那我跟您報告因為洗房法通過通過執法然後這個告誡賬戶處分的部分還要銀行修系統所以才會到3月1號\n493257\t513726\t不是說中間沒有做事了好我知道那3月1號這個實施齁那還有你們還有一個新的規定約定轉帳這是約定轉帳的齁剛剛是講人頭帳我現在是約定轉帳有一個事前事中事後的管控措施也是預計3月底要上路嗎是那這個是指這個呃國營國家的銀行\n518203\t532257\t還是全部的銀行?大家都要做大家都要做包含民營就最多要做全部都要做對這個3月底所有的銀行就是要做這個你們這個事前事中事後的管控的措施是\n532998\t561163\t那廣東措施內容主要是什麼?我跟您報告假如說我今天會我今天到銀行去匯錢匯到B銀行的某個帳戶那B銀行是收款的這個銀行他就會跟這個這個我要匯款的銀行去確認這個帳戶是不是已經被其他人已經有有同樣的設定是約定轉帳若有很多設定就表示這個帳戶有可能是人頭帳戶那就要通報之後就可能告誡我不要再匯款好那等於說在3月有兩個新的措施一個是人頭帳戶\n562923\t590796\t然後一個是這個約定轉帳那我是希望啦先解決這個人頭帳戶約定轉帳的問題希望能夠把詐騙問題再解決最後30秒再請教一下這個在你們報告裡面第8頁有提到這個是有關於這個另外一個啦證券投資信託及顧問法這是關於這個網路廣告的事情你們說在Meta是在6月底可以完成系統的調整落實投資廣告實名制\n591716\t619937\t那請問一下除了這個Meta之外那Google呢?應該都是6月底Google已經有了Google其實它已經有實施實名制那Meta是說他們要修改系統所以6月底會上線實名制所以Google已經好了已經有實施實名制了那Meta到6月底看你們的報告以為是說這個Meta6月底然後Google還沒有處理\n622194\t640387\t如果照政局提供的資訊是Google已經有完成了我在最後主席我再借一分鐘就是說當然你們現在打仗無法通過然後這個有關這個約定展帳然後人頭帳戶的事情有在處理但是我還是要提醒主委就是說現在虛擬貨幣有可能成為詐騙集團的新歡\n644912\t662610\t就是說這個未來我們針對這個很多這個虛擬貨幣現在都成為這個詐騙集團人頭問題那他們都是說我是個人幣商那個人幣商呢這個檢警查到之後呢就這個個人幣商呢到現在呢行政裁罰了事\n663612\t681993\t所以現在很多詐騙集團交戰守則就是說你被抓到你就是個人避傷對相關的交易不知情、償貨不起訴這跟過去人頭貨的情況相當類似所以我是建議是不是在虛擬貨幣這方面還是要有一個管理的專法出來\n683069\t695470\t有關跟委員報告我們會朝訂專法的方向努力另外也建議洗房法增加一個個人避傷或是境外避傷都要就是這種避傷要在洗房法登記的這個制度了\n695896\t696276\t王世堅委員\n","txt":"在2020年受到新冠肺炎疫情影響,金管會停付中國實力精簡。\n然後我看你們在2024年的預算書上面有提到說有計劃打算在今年3月到11月要赴中國經檢但是去中國經檢都必須跟中方事先先取得聯繫同意之後才能成行\n這幾個禮拜以來因為中國快艇的非法越界逃避海巡查緝的翻船事件兩岸的關係有這麼一點點緊張那我想請問一下主委這個有沒有這個計畫繼續這個要到中國經檢那有跟中方聯繫嗎那預計何時會過去\n因為我們跟對岸有千里千里備忘錄所以各國都一樣要去對方實地監檢需要經過對方主管機關同意那今年會去但是進度到什麼是不是請局長給你報告我意思是說有跟中方聯繫了嗎因為我看預算書上面是有這個計畫對我們今天是有這個計畫目前正在跟那個陸委會在報備中陸委會如果他說同意了我們就會進一步再跟大陸這邊再做聯繫\n所以現在是還要陸委會同意才跟中方聯繫?所以現在還沒跟中方聯繫就對了?還沒有那過去的時間預計呢?\n就是看聯繫的結果就是陸委會這邊先給我們表示正面的意見之後我們就會跟對方監理機關聯繫所以是有打算要去就對了有那就是等陸委會那邊的決定就對了不是只是等陸委會決定之後再跟中方聯繫嘛確認他沒有任何其他的意見我們就會跟對方監理機關去跟他請教他們的意見\n好 這個我有看你們的這個報告啦那其實你們這個報告裡面第一點就提到了這個未來工作重點就是防制金融詐騙保障國人權益那真的是這個大家所關心的就是打詐騙那其實我們在這個選舉的時候常常就遇到說這個詐騙實在太氾濫了\n當然我也知道說政府是做了很多的準備的工作那其中你們有提到說林桂關懷的成效那當然我看就是說就112年這個攔阻的這個案件有增加增加了這個3321件攔阻的金額也有增加增加了33.48億元\n這兩年來藍組的金額大概是118億這是你們的報告當然業務報告上面寫說這個是成效顯著也是為自己的加油打氣但是跟民眾的實際的感受\n還是有落差的我拿這個中正大學犯罪研究中心他們所公布的當然這是111年或許112年會比較高一點點他們對於這個犯罪防治滿意度的調查研究報告其中啊\n關於說民眾對政府在詐騙、犯罪防治的表現有超過半數五成三還是不滿意那表示說政府所做的跟民眾的期待還是有落差那我再拿這個刑事警察局的統計來做個說明這個刑事警察局統計這個詐騙的案數我就舉2022跟2023好了詐騙的案數是增加的從2萬9增加到3萬7\n財產的損失也是增加的,從73.2億增加到88.7億。攔阻金額也有增加,從50.5億到89.8億。從正面的說法來看,\n這兩年攔阻的金額有140億但是財產損失方面有160億財產損失還是比攔阻的還要多這是刑事警察局的統計然後就財產損失跟攔阻的金額把它加起來當作是一個詐騙的規模好了\n在2022年是123億就是財產損失加上攬主金額的但是2023年就達到178億所以整個攬主金額加上這個詐騙的財產損失實際上整個詐騙的規模還是增加的想請教一下主委的看法我當然知道政府很用心打詐無法在去年5月底的都通過了但是這個數字都還是增加的\n委員其實詐騙有好幾個界面那剛才講的一百億那是零貴關懷那另外還有比如說網路約定轉帳還有投資詐騙這些其實都不是剛才前面的數字所涵蓋的那其實我在報告中的第五頁跟第七頁都有講今年第一季有些新的措施就揮名單的通報好那我就請教你新的措施在3月1號有一個新的措施這是按照這個洗錢防治法的一個規定\n這個大概就是有關於這個人頭賬戶的限制嘛對,初屆人頭賬戶他得到他的一個裁罰對,從3月1號開始嘛對那我是按照這個警政署的一個數字好了齁我看看齁這個規定\n這個規定落實之後啦因為是去年5月底啦去年5月底這個我們這個打詐無法其中有關洗錢房市法修正的通過然後呢他說到3月1號法務部的新聞稿到現在為止有超過一萬兩千人受到告誡的處分那就是說這一萬兩千人是適用這個新的規定就對了是他的帳戶的功能跟額度都會受到限制受到什麼樣的限制\n就是他也許每天一天只能使用一定的金額或他轉帳各方面都有他等於說他的自由使用的金融的這種帳戶的權利受到克制我看你們新聞稿上面是寫的大概每天轉帳不能超過一萬塊啦是阿所以說這個新法這個這個洗錢防治法修正在去年5月30號通過之後到現在3月1號看這個數字大概有一萬兩千人受到告誡的處分這個是警察在做處理的嘛\n也要金融機構一起配合我再請教一下主委銀行還有信用合作社警示賬戶按照我這邊的數字這個應該是金管會提供的\n在112年6月30號是累計的有10萬4千件但是到了112年12月底到了11萬8千多件這個警示帳戶還是增加的警示帳戶應該是警政單位他們確定之後告訴銀行去具以去對這個帳戶去做一些功能的限制我說這個跟人頭帳戶勒\n這個就是有可能是人頭賬戶嗎?對,那我的意思是說,那當然這個是半年的期間,打債務法期間,防治法是5月30號通過,那你們是3月1號才正式實施這個告誡的處分,那當然這8個月來,我想請教這8個月來,這個人頭賬戶,就是這個檢視賬戶有沒有稍微下降一點?\n其實還是有一些增加啦那我跟您報告因為洗房法通過通過執法然後這個告誡賬戶處分的部分還要銀行修系統所以才會到3月1號\n不是說中間沒有做事了好我知道那3月1號這個實施齁那還有你們還有一個新的規定約定轉帳這是約定轉帳的齁剛剛是講人頭帳我現在是約定轉帳有一個事前事中事後的管控措施也是預計3月底要上路嗎是那這個是指這個呃國營國家的銀行\n還是全部的銀行?大家都要做大家都要做包含民營就最多要做全部都要做對這個3月底所有的銀行就是要做這個你們這個事前事中事後的管控的措施是\n那廣東措施內容主要是什麼?我跟您報告假如說我今天會我今天到銀行去匯錢匯到B銀行的某個帳戶那B銀行是收款的這個銀行他就會跟這個這個我要匯款的銀行去確認這個帳戶是不是已經被其他人已經有有同樣的設定是約定轉帳若有很多設定就表示這個帳戶有可能是人頭帳戶那就要通報之後就可能告誡我不要再匯款好那等於說在3月有兩個新的措施一個是人頭帳戶\n然後一個是這個約定轉帳那我是希望啦先解決這個人頭帳戶約定轉帳的問題希望能夠把詐騙問題再解決最後30秒再請教一下這個在你們報告裡面第8頁有提到這個是有關於這個另外一個啦證券投資信託及顧問法這是關於這個網路廣告的事情你們說在Meta是在6月底可以完成系統的調整落實投資廣告實名制\n那請問一下除了這個Meta之外那Google呢?應該都是6月底Google已經有了Google其實它已經有實施實名制那Meta是說他們要修改系統所以6月底會上線實名制所以Google已經好了已經有實施實名制了那Meta到6月底看你們的報告以為是說這個Meta6月底然後Google還沒有處理\n如果照政局提供的資訊是Google已經有完成了我在最後主席我再借一分鐘就是說當然你們現在打仗無法通過然後這個有關這個約定展帳然後人頭帳戶的事情有在處理但是我還是要提醒主委就是說現在虛擬貨幣有可能成為詐騙集團的新歡\n就是說這個未來我們針對這個很多這個虛擬貨幣現在都成為這個詐騙集團人頭問題那他們都是說我是個人幣商那個人幣商呢這個檢警查到之後呢就這個個人幣商呢到現在呢行政裁罰了事\n所以現在很多詐騙集團交戰守則就是說你被抓到你就是個人避傷對相關的交易不知情、償貨不起訴這跟過去人頭貨的情況相當類似所以我是建議是不是在虛擬貨幣這方面還是要有一個管理的專法出來\n有關跟委員報告我們會朝訂專法的方向努力另外也建議洗房法增加一個個人避傷或是境外避傷都要就是這種避傷要在洗房法登記的這個制度了\n王世堅委員\n","vtt":"WEBVTT\n\n00:00.029 --> 00:03.132\n在2020年受到新冠肺炎疫情影響,金管會停付中國實力精簡。\n\n00:16.448 --> 00:34.469\n然後我看你們在2024年的預算書上面有提到說有計劃打算在今年3月到11月要赴中國經檢但是去中國經檢都必須跟中方事先先取得聯繫同意之後才能成行\n\n00:36.551 --> 00:54.406\n這幾個禮拜以來因為中國快艇的非法越界逃避海巡查緝的翻船事件兩岸的關係有這麼一點點緊張那我想請問一下主委這個有沒有這個計畫繼續這個要到中國經檢那有跟中方聯繫嗎那預計何時會過去\n\n00:58.414 --> 01:26.117\n因為我們跟對岸有千里千里備忘錄所以各國都一樣要去對方實地監檢需要經過對方主管機關同意那今年會去但是進度到什麼是不是請局長給你報告我意思是說有跟中方聯繫了嗎因為我看預算書上面是有這個計畫對我們今天是有這個計畫目前正在跟那個陸委會在報備中陸委會如果他說同意了我們就會進一步再跟大陸這邊再做聯繫\n\n01:27.423 --> 01:32.915\n所以現在是還要陸委會同意才跟中方聯繫?所以現在還沒跟中方聯繫就對了?還沒有那過去的時間預計呢?\n\n01:40.526 --> 02:01.812\n就是看聯繫的結果就是陸委會這邊先給我們表示正面的意見之後我們就會跟對方監理機關聯繫所以是有打算要去就對了有那就是等陸委會那邊的決定就對了不是只是等陸委會決定之後再跟中方聯繫嘛確認他沒有任何其他的意見我們就會跟對方監理機關去跟他請教他們的意見\n\n02:03.612 --> 02:23.658\n好這個我有看你們的這個報告啦那其實你們這個報告裡面第一點就提到了這個未來工作重點就是防制金融詐騙保障國人權益那真的是這個大家所關心的就是打詐騙那其實我們在這個選舉的時候常常就遇到說這個詐騙實在太氾濫了\n\n02:25.098 --> 02:44.543\n當然我也知道說政府是做了很多的準備的工作那其中你們有提到說林桂關懷的成效那當然我看就是說就112年這個攔阻的這個案件有增加增加了這個3321件攔阻的金額也有增加增加了33.48億元\n\n02:48.105 --> 03:04.378\n這兩年來藍組的金額大概是118億這是你們的報告當然業務報告上面寫說這個是成效顯著也是為自己的加油打氣但是跟民眾的實際的感受\n\n03:05.439 --> 03:21.219\n還是有落差的我拿這個中正大學犯罪研究中心他們所公布的當然這是111年或許112年會比較高一點點他們對於這個犯罪防治滿意度的調查研究報告其中啊\n\n03:22.080 --> 03:45.114\n關於說民眾對政府在詐騙、犯罪防治的表現有超過半數五成三還是不滿意那表示說政府所做的跟民眾的期待還是有落差那我再拿這個刑事警察局的統計來做個說明這個刑事警察局統計這個詐騙的案數我就舉2022跟2023好了詐騙的案數是增加的從2萬9增加到3萬7\n\n03:52.218 --> 03:56.701\n財產的損失也是增加的,從73.2億增加到88.7億。攔阻金額也有增加,從50.5億到89.8億。從正面的說法來看,\n\n04:15.639 --> 04:35.531\n這兩年攔阻的金額有140億但是財產損失方面有160億財產損失還是比攔阻的還要多這是刑事警察局的統計然後就財產損失跟攔阻的金額把它加起來當作是一個詐騙的規模好了\n\n04:38.717 --> 05:05.171\n在2022年是123億就是財產損失加上攬主金額的但是2023年就達到178億所以整個攬主金額加上這個詐騙的財產損失實際上整個詐騙的規模還是增加的想請教一下主委的看法我當然知道政府很用心打詐無法在去年5月底的都通過了但是這個數字都還是增加的\n\n05:07.076 --> 05:35.770\n委員其實詐騙有好幾個界面那剛才講的一百億那是零貴關懷那另外還有比如說網路約定轉帳還有投資詐騙這些其實都不是剛才前面的數字所涵蓋的那其實我在報告中的第五頁跟第七頁都有講今年第一季有些新的措施就揮名單的通報好那我就請教你新的措施在3月1號有一個新的措施這是按照這個洗錢防治法的一個規定\n\n05:38.311 --> 05:55.221\n這個大概就是有關於這個人頭賬戶的限制嘛對,初屆人頭賬戶他得到他的一個裁罰對,從3月1號開始嘛對那我是按照這個警政署的一個數字好了齁我看看齁這個規定\n\n05:58.592 --> 06:23.206\n這個規定落實之後啦因為是去年5月底啦去年5月底這個我們這個打詐無法其中有關洗錢房市法修正的通過然後呢他說到3月1號法務部的新聞稿到現在為止有超過一萬兩千人受到告誡的處分那就是說這一萬兩千人是適用這個新的規定就對了是他的帳戶的功能跟額度都會受到限制受到什麼樣的限制\n\n06:23.854 --> 06:52.197\n就是他也許每天一天只能使用一定的金額或他轉帳各方面都有他等於說他的自由使用的金融的這種帳戶的權利受到克制我看你們新聞稿上面是寫的大概每天轉帳不能超過一萬塊啦是阿所以說這個新法這個這個洗錢防治法修正在去年5月30號通過之後到現在3月1號看這個數字大概有一萬兩千人受到告誡的處分這個是警察在做處理的嘛\n\n06:53.662 --> 07:01.948\n也要金融機構一起配合我再請教一下主委銀行還有信用合作社警示賬戶按照我這邊的數字這個應該是金管會提供的\n\n07:09.281 --> 07:31.930\n在112年6月30號是累計的有10萬4千件但是到了112年12月底到了11萬8千多件這個警示帳戶還是增加的警示帳戶應該是警政單位他們確定之後告訴銀行去具以去對這個帳戶去做一些功能的限制我說這個跟人頭帳戶勒\n\n07:33.873 --> 07:40.095\n這個就是有可能是人頭賬戶嗎?對,那我的意思是說,那當然這個是半年的期間,打債務法期間,防治法是5月30號通過,那你們是3月1號才正式實施這個告誡的處分,那當然這8個月來,我想請教這8個月來,這個人頭賬戶,就是這個檢視賬戶有沒有稍微下降一點?\n\n07:58.227 --> 08:11.241\n其實還是有一些增加啦那我跟您報告因為洗房法通過通過執法然後這個告誡賬戶處分的部分還要銀行修系統所以才會到3月1號\n\n08:13.257 --> 08:33.726\n不是說中間沒有做事了好我知道那3月1號這個實施齁那還有你們還有一個新的規定約定轉帳這是約定轉帳的齁剛剛是講人頭帳我現在是約定轉帳有一個事前事中事後的管控措施也是預計3月底要上路嗎是那這個是指這個呃國營國家的銀行\n\n08:38.203 --> 08:52.257\n還是全部的銀行?大家都要做大家都要做包含民營就最多要做全部都要做對這個3月底所有的銀行就是要做這個你們這個事前事中事後的管控的措施是\n\n08:52.998 --> 09:21.163\n那廣東措施內容主要是什麼?我跟您報告假如說我今天會我今天到銀行去匯錢匯到B銀行的某個帳戶那B銀行是收款的這個銀行他就會跟這個這個我要匯款的銀行去確認這個帳戶是不是已經被其他人已經有有同樣的設定是約定轉帳若有很多設定就表示這個帳戶有可能是人頭帳戶那就要通報之後就可能告誡我不要再匯款好那等於說在3月有兩個新的措施一個是人頭帳戶\n\n09:22.923 --> 09:50.796\n然後一個是這個約定轉帳那我是希望啦先解決這個人頭帳戶約定轉帳的問題希望能夠把詐騙問題再解決最後30秒再請教一下這個在你們報告裡面第8頁有提到這個是有關於這個另外一個啦證券投資信託及顧問法這是關於這個網路廣告的事情你們說在Meta是在6月底可以完成系統的調整落實投資廣告實名制\n\n09:51.716 --> 10:19.937\n那請問一下除了這個Meta之外那Google呢?應該都是6月底Google已經有了Google其實它已經有實施實名制那Meta是說他們要修改系統所以6月底會上線實名制所以Google已經好了已經有實施實名制了那Meta到6月底看你們的報告以為是說這個Meta6月底然後Google還沒有處理\n\n10:22.194 --> 10:40.387\n如果照政局提供的資訊是Google已經有完成了我在最後主席我再借一分鐘就是說當然你們現在打仗無法通過然後這個有關這個約定展帳然後人頭帳戶的事情有在處理但是我還是要提醒主委就是說現在虛擬貨幣有可能成為詐騙集團的新歡\n\n10:44.912 --> 11:02.610\n就是說這個未來我們針對這個很多這個虛擬貨幣現在都成為這個詐騙集團人頭問題那他們都是說我是個人幣商那個人幣商呢這個檢警查到之後呢就這個個人幣商呢到現在呢行政裁罰了事\n\n11:03.612 --> 11:21.993\n所以現在很多詐騙集團交戰守則就是說你被抓到你就是個人避傷對相關的交易不知情、償貨不起訴這跟過去人頭貨的情況相當類似所以我是建議是不是在虛擬貨幣這方面還是要有一個管理的專法出來\n\n11:23.069 --> 11:35.470\n有關跟委員報告我們會朝訂專法的方向努力另外也建議洗房法增加一個個人避傷或是境外避傷都要就是這種避傷要在洗房法登記的這個制度了\n\n11:35.896 --> 11:36.276\n王世堅委員\n\n","segments":[{"start":0.029,"end":3.132,"text":"在2020年受到新冠肺炎疫情影響,金管會停付中國實力精簡。"},{"start":16.448,"end":34.469,"text":"然後我看你們在2024年的預算書上面有提到說有計劃打算在今年3月到11月要赴中國經檢但是去中國經檢都必須跟中方事先先取得聯繫同意之後才能成行"},{"start":36.551,"end":54.406,"text":"這幾個禮拜以來因為中國快艇的非法越界逃避海巡查緝的翻船事件兩岸的關係有這麼一點點緊張那我想請問一下主委這個有沒有這個計畫繼續這個要到中國經檢那有跟中方聯繫嗎那預計何時會過去"},{"start":58.414,"end":86.117,"text":"因為我們跟對岸有千里千里備忘錄所以各國都一樣要去對方實地監檢需要經過對方主管機關同意那今年會去但是進度到什麼是不是請局長給你報告我意思是說有跟中方聯繫了嗎因為我看預算書上面是有這個計畫對我們今天是有這個計畫目前正在跟那個陸委會在報備中陸委會如果他說同意了我們就會進一步再跟大陸這邊再做聯繫"},{"start":87.423,"end":92.915,"text":"所以現在是還要陸委會同意才跟中方聯繫?所以現在還沒跟中方聯繫就對了?還沒有那過去的時間預計呢?"},{"start":100.526,"end":121.812,"text":"就是看聯繫的結果就是陸委會這邊先給我們表示正面的意見之後我們就會跟對方監理機關聯繫所以是有打算要去就對了有那就是等陸委會那邊的決定就對了不是只是等陸委會決定之後再跟中方聯繫嘛確認他沒有任何其他的意見我們就會跟對方監理機關去跟他請教他們的意見"},{"start":123.612,"end":143.658,"text":"好 這個我有看你們的這個報告啦那其實你們這個報告裡面第一點就提到了這個未來工作重點就是防制金融詐騙保障國人權益那真的是這個大家所關心的就是打詐騙那其實我們在這個選舉的時候常常就遇到說這個詐騙實在太氾濫了"},{"start":145.098,"end":164.543,"text":"當然我也知道說政府是做了很多的準備的工作那其中你們有提到說林桂關懷的成效那當然我看就是說就112年這個攔阻的這個案件有增加增加了這個3321件攔阻的金額也有增加增加了33.48億元"},{"start":168.105,"end":184.378,"text":"這兩年來藍組的金額大概是118億這是你們的報告當然業務報告上面寫說這個是成效顯著也是為自己的加油打氣但是跟民眾的實際的感受"},{"start":185.439,"end":201.219,"text":"還是有落差的我拿這個中正大學犯罪研究中心他們所公布的當然這是111年或許112年會比較高一點點他們對於這個犯罪防治滿意度的調查研究報告其中啊"},{"start":202.08,"end":225.114,"text":"關於說民眾對政府在詐騙、犯罪防治的表現有超過半數五成三還是不滿意那表示說政府所做的跟民眾的期待還是有落差那我再拿這個刑事警察局的統計來做個說明這個刑事警察局統計這個詐騙的案數我就舉2022跟2023好了詐騙的案數是增加的從2萬9增加到3萬7"},{"start":232.218,"end":236.701,"text":"財產的損失也是增加的,從73.2億增加到88.7億。攔阻金額也有增加,從50.5億到89.8億。從正面的說法來看,"},{"start":255.639,"end":275.531,"text":"這兩年攔阻的金額有140億但是財產損失方面有160億財產損失還是比攔阻的還要多這是刑事警察局的統計然後就財產損失跟攔阻的金額把它加起來當作是一個詐騙的規模好了"},{"start":278.717,"end":305.171,"text":"在2022年是123億就是財產損失加上攬主金額的但是2023年就達到178億所以整個攬主金額加上這個詐騙的財產損失實際上整個詐騙的規模還是增加的想請教一下主委的看法我當然知道政府很用心打詐無法在去年5月底的都通過了但是這個數字都還是增加的"},{"start":307.076,"end":335.77,"text":"委員其實詐騙有好幾個界面那剛才講的一百億那是零貴關懷那另外還有比如說網路約定轉帳還有投資詐騙這些其實都不是剛才前面的數字所涵蓋的那其實我在報告中的第五頁跟第七頁都有講今年第一季有些新的措施就揮名單的通報好那我就請教你新的措施在3月1號有一個新的措施這是按照這個洗錢防治法的一個規定"},{"start":338.311,"end":355.221,"text":"這個大概就是有關於這個人頭賬戶的限制嘛對,初屆人頭賬戶他得到他的一個裁罰對,從3月1號開始嘛對那我是按照這個警政署的一個數字好了齁我看看齁這個規定"},{"start":358.592,"end":383.206,"text":"這個規定落實之後啦因為是去年5月底啦去年5月底這個我們這個打詐無法其中有關洗錢房市法修正的通過然後呢他說到3月1號法務部的新聞稿到現在為止有超過一萬兩千人受到告誡的處分那就是說這一萬兩千人是適用這個新的規定就對了是他的帳戶的功能跟額度都會受到限制受到什麼樣的限制"},{"start":383.854,"end":412.197,"text":"就是他也許每天一天只能使用一定的金額或他轉帳各方面都有他等於說他的自由使用的金融的這種帳戶的權利受到克制我看你們新聞稿上面是寫的大概每天轉帳不能超過一萬塊啦是阿所以說這個新法這個這個洗錢防治法修正在去年5月30號通過之後到現在3月1號看這個數字大概有一萬兩千人受到告誡的處分這個是警察在做處理的嘛"},{"start":413.662,"end":421.948,"text":"也要金融機構一起配合我再請教一下主委銀行還有信用合作社警示賬戶按照我這邊的數字這個應該是金管會提供的"},{"start":429.281,"end":451.93,"text":"在112年6月30號是累計的有10萬4千件但是到了112年12月底到了11萬8千多件這個警示帳戶還是增加的警示帳戶應該是警政單位他們確定之後告訴銀行去具以去對這個帳戶去做一些功能的限制我說這個跟人頭帳戶勒"},{"start":453.873,"end":460.095,"text":"這個就是有可能是人頭賬戶嗎?對,那我的意思是說,那當然這個是半年的期間,打債務法期間,防治法是5月30號通過,那你們是3月1號才正式實施這個告誡的處分,那當然這8個月來,我想請教這8個月來,這個人頭賬戶,就是這個檢視賬戶有沒有稍微下降一點?"},{"start":478.227,"end":491.241,"text":"其實還是有一些增加啦那我跟您報告因為洗房法通過通過執法然後這個告誡賬戶處分的部分還要銀行修系統所以才會到3月1號"},{"start":493.257,"end":513.726,"text":"不是說中間沒有做事了好我知道那3月1號這個實施齁那還有你們還有一個新的規定約定轉帳這是約定轉帳的齁剛剛是講人頭帳我現在是約定轉帳有一個事前事中事後的管控措施也是預計3月底要上路嗎是那這個是指這個呃國營國家的銀行"},{"start":518.203,"end":532.257,"text":"還是全部的銀行?大家都要做大家都要做包含民營就最多要做全部都要做對這個3月底所有的銀行就是要做這個你們這個事前事中事後的管控的措施是"},{"start":532.998,"end":561.163,"text":"那廣東措施內容主要是什麼?我跟您報告假如說我今天會我今天到銀行去匯錢匯到B銀行的某個帳戶那B銀行是收款的這個銀行他就會跟這個這個我要匯款的銀行去確認這個帳戶是不是已經被其他人已經有有同樣的設定是約定轉帳若有很多設定就表示這個帳戶有可能是人頭帳戶那就要通報之後就可能告誡我不要再匯款好那等於說在3月有兩個新的措施一個是人頭帳戶"},{"start":562.923,"end":590.796,"text":"然後一個是這個約定轉帳那我是希望啦先解決這個人頭帳戶約定轉帳的問題希望能夠把詐騙問題再解決最後30秒再請教一下這個在你們報告裡面第8頁有提到這個是有關於這個另外一個啦證券投資信託及顧問法這是關於這個網路廣告的事情你們說在Meta是在6月底可以完成系統的調整落實投資廣告實名制"},{"start":591.716,"end":619.937,"text":"那請問一下除了這個Meta之外那Google呢?應該都是6月底Google已經有了Google其實它已經有實施實名制那Meta是說他們要修改系統所以6月底會上線實名制所以Google已經好了已經有實施實名制了那Meta到6月底看你們的報告以為是說這個Meta6月底然後Google還沒有處理"},{"start":622.194,"end":640.387,"text":"如果照政局提供的資訊是Google已經有完成了我在最後主席我再借一分鐘就是說當然你們現在打仗無法通過然後這個有關這個約定展帳然後人頭帳戶的事情有在處理但是我還是要提醒主委就是說現在虛擬貨幣有可能成為詐騙集團的新歡"},{"start":644.912,"end":662.61,"text":"就是說這個未來我們針對這個很多這個虛擬貨幣現在都成為這個詐騙集團人頭問題那他們都是說我是個人幣商那個人幣商呢這個檢警查到之後呢就這個個人幣商呢到現在呢行政裁罰了事"},{"start":663.612,"end":681.993,"text":"所以現在很多詐騙集團交戰守則就是說你被抓到你就是個人避傷對相關的交易不知情、償貨不起訴這跟過去人頭貨的情況相當類似所以我是建議是不是在虛擬貨幣這方面還是要有一個管理的專法出來"},{"start":683.069,"end":695.47,"text":"有關跟委員報告我們會朝訂專法的方向努力另外也建議洗房法增加一個個人避傷或是境外避傷都要就是這種避傷要在洗房法登記的這個制度了"},{"start":695.896,"end":696.276,"text":"王世堅委員"}]}}}}