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0.938}, {\"word\": \"剛\"}, {\"word\": \"剛\"}, {\"word\": \"我\", \"start\": 98.857, \"end\": 98.997, \"score\": 0.998}, {\"word\": \"不\", \"start\": 98.997, \"end\": 99.077, \"score\": 1.0}, {\"word\": \"是\", \"start\": 99.077, \"end\": 99.558, \"score\": 0.886}, {\"word\": \"針\"}, {\"word\": \"對\"}, {\"word\": \"特\", \"start\": 99.558, \"end\": 99.698, \"score\": 0.996}, {\"word\": \"地\", \"start\": 99.698, \"end\": 99.838, \"score\": 0.995}, {\"word\": \"的\", \"start\": 99.838, \"end\": 100.118, \"score\": 0.928}, {\"word\": \"銀\"}, {\"word\": \"行\", \"start\": 100.118, \"end\": 100.138, \"score\": 0.999}]}, {\"start\": 100.458, \"end\": 117.293, \"text\": \"但這家銀行戰績太輝煌了所以我特別把他的內控聲明書調出來看每一年的內控聲明書針對內積內控針對房洗房都沒有問題有確實遵守來我們看一下第一線警警他們在辦案的時候看出來的是什麼\", \"words\": [{\"word\": \"但\", \"start\": 100.458, \"end\": 100.758, \"score\": 0.867}, {\"word\": \"這\"}, {\"word\": \"家\", \"start\": 100.758, \"end\": 101.139, \"score\": 0.912}, {\"word\": \"銀\"}, {\"word\": \"行\", \"start\": 101.139, 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\"end\": 130.605, \"score\": 0.858}, {\"word\": \"百\", \"start\": 130.605, \"end\": 130.765, \"score\": 0.995}, {\"word\": \"分\", \"start\": 130.765, \"end\": 130.945, \"score\": 0.871}, {\"word\": \"之\", \"start\": 130.945, \"end\": 131.106, \"score\": 0.996}, {\"word\": \"三\", \"start\": 131.106, \"end\": 131.426, \"score\": 0.991}, {\"word\": \"十\", \"start\": 131.426, \"end\": 132.207, \"score\": 0.975}, {\"word\": \"欸\"}, {\"word\": \"主\", \"start\": 132.207, \"end\": 132.387, \"score\": 0.887}, {\"word\": \"委\", \"start\": 132.387, \"end\": 132.627, \"score\": 0.917}, {\"word\": \"你\", \"start\": 132.627, \"end\": 133.268, \"score\": 0.867}, {\"word\": \"認\"}, {\"word\": \"為\"}, {\"word\": \"這\"}, {\"word\": \"樣\"}, {\"word\": \"子\", \"start\": 133.268, \"end\": 133.408, \"score\": 0.846}, {\"word\": \"的\", \"start\": 133.408, \"end\": 133.588, \"score\": 0.889}, {\"word\": \"內\"}, {\"word\": \"控\", \"start\": 133.588, \"end\": 133.788, \"score\": 0.985}, {\"word\": \"算\", 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\"text\": \"他是實際上面行員、金融機構行員參與犯罪組織去詐騙、去洗錢但我看了金管會的財主書主委可能認為罰他們兩千萬很重\", \"words\": [{\"word\": \"他\", \"start\": 221.537, \"end\": 221.697, \"score\": 0.969}, {\"word\": \"是\", \"start\": 221.697, \"end\": 222.378, \"score\": 0.94}, {\"word\": \"實\"}, {\"word\": \"際\"}, {\"word\": \"上\", \"start\": 222.378, \"end\": 222.579, \"score\": 0.993}, {\"word\": \"面\", \"start\": 222.579, \"end\": 222.759, \"score\": 0.97}, {\"word\": \"行\", \"start\": 222.759, \"end\": 223.6, \"score\": 0.964}, {\"word\": \"員\"}, {\"word\": \"、\"}, {\"word\": \"金\", \"start\": 223.6, \"end\": 223.961, \"score\": 0.941}, {\"word\": \"融\", \"start\": 223.961, \"end\": 225.142, \"score\": 0.948}, {\"word\": \"機\"}, {\"word\": \"構\"}, {\"word\": \"行\", \"start\": 225.142, \"end\": 226.384, \"score\": 0.935}, {\"word\": \"員\"}, {\"word\": \"參\"}, {\"word\": \"與\"}, {\"word\": \"犯\", \"start\": 226.384, \"end\": 226.624, \"score\": 0.961}, {\"word\": \"罪\", \"start\": 226.624, \"end\": 227.646, \"score\": 0.941}, 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--> 00:00:51,848\n兩位時間的關係不一一問候大家非常關心有關於打詐的問題去年警察官開論壇希望我們的行政機關在前面先做好管控切斷他們的犯罪工具我相信這個政策方向主委一定是認同的那我比較關心的是我們依照洗錢防治法授權金管會所訂立的辦法\n\n3\n00:00:52,689 --> 00:01:17,957\n各個金控或是銀行他們必須要出具防治洗錢的內控聲明書這個防治洗錢的內控聲明書基本上是希望他們自我要求自我做好不管是金控法還是銀行法裡面都有相關的規定但我現在的問題是這個內控聲明書有意義嗎?有用嗎?我的意思是說假設出了這個內控聲明書但實際上面內積內空一塌糊塗的話監管會的應對是什麼?\n\n4\n00:01:23,571 --> 00:01:40,138\n這個我們從內控上面也可以處分可以處分洗方法也可以處分可不可以重其重是是重其重好來我們繼續往下看這紙聲明書做出來了以後我們看一下剛剛我不是針對特地的銀行\n\n5\n00:01:40,458 --> 00:01:57,293\n但這家銀行戰績太輝煌了所以我特別把他的內控聲明書調出來看每一年的內控聲明書針對內積內控針對房洗房都沒有問題有確實遵守來我們看一下第一線警警他們在辦案的時候看出來的是什麼\n\n6\n00:01:58,975 --> 00:02:14,248\n2022年各銀行涉案人頭賬戶的佔比第一名中國信託就有剛剛出具內控聲明書的那一家總共人頭賬戶有上萬個欸佔比是百分之三十欸主委你認為這樣子的內控算有做好嗎?\n\n7\n00:02:15,595 --> 00:02:40,369\n所以我們就相關個案有嚴正的採處這兩個部分一個是等到刑事偵查的時候去採處那這個是屬於事後處罰的問題一個是前面針對內機內控的部分到底有沒有做好有沒有採處進行了什麼樣的採處主委你要講的那個例子我知道我們繼續往下看\n\n8\n00:02:41,425 --> 00:03:07,917\n川普信託他不僅僅是內積內扣沒做好他不是說房子洗錢沒做好、內積內扣沒做好他是離譜到什麼他是離譜到自己的行員去參與犯罪組織共同實施詐騙、洗錢第一審刑事判決出來了判了6年6個月那當然判完了以後法官同時告發\n\n9\n00:03:09,018 --> 00:03:14,435\n說中國信託啊他也是犯罪行為人這件事情主委你應該認同很離譜吧\n\n10\n00:03:15,831 --> 00:03:40,677\n我們覺得不應該發生是很好非常好下一頁結果你們在採取的說明書裡面我看到的中國信託他們幹的事情不是只有違反內心內控喔如果是只有房子洗錢的規定沒有做好那個是抽象制度性的問題嘛表示我們市錢預防的功能沒有做好控制沒有做好但\n\n11\n00:03:41,537 --> 00:03:53,554\n他是實際上面行員、金融機構行員參與犯罪組織去詐騙、去洗錢但我看了金管會的財主書主委可能認為罰他們兩千萬很重\n\n12\n00:03:57,771 --> 00:04:14,811\n我可能認為罰他們兩千萬很重但如果以中國信託他們一年的獲利額剛剛四千委員就質詢了光到收手續費的部分就超過四百億了罰個兩千萬會不會痛有沒有用社會有公平但我現在分兩個層次來請教\n\n13\n00:04:17,014 --> 00:04:45,487\n第一個層次是這麼嚴重的行為你們為什麼在發財處書的時候相關的事實相關的行為沒有辦法像美國的監理機構一樣具細米疑具體的把它寫清楚它是屬於辦理客戶零過申請調高銀行網路轉帳及ATM提領日限而作業所涉缺失嗎是這樣子輕描淡寫就把它的不應該的地方\n\n14\n00:04:47,308 --> 00:04:51,033\n這可責性的行為,這樣算有充分描述嗎?\n\n15\n00:05:05,669 --> 00:05:23,477\n想法我沒有在苛責金管會的同仁因為這種立稿的方式我們大概寫了一二十年長的都是這個樣子不是你當主委才變這樣如果是你當主委才變這樣那一定是你的責任嘛但我給金管會的建議是什麼去看一看\n\n16\n00:05:24,659 --> 00:05:43,452\n外國的監理機關針對這麼離譜的事情事實是要把它寫得很清楚他們到底做錯了什麼事情讓社會大眾知道這樣子的採取才有意義嘛第二個部分公罰錢有沒有用罰錢其實是罰誰的錢是罰全體股東的錢嗎\n\n17\n00:05:45,874 --> 00:06:07,709\n但是那些出具內資內控聲明書的人從法針到集合到封控到最後高階的經理人每一個人都簽了字結果根本沒有做好嘛我現在講的還不是只有這個個案喔從通案到個案比率最高一年一萬多個人頭賬戶\n\n18\n00:06:09,430 --> 00:06:33,997\n具體的個案目前被抓到的有銀行員參與詐騙死罰兩千萬能夠有效後組嗎?主委你覺得呢委員所以我們今年1月14號我們通過銀行責任地圖不是說將來發生問題只要罰錢明年1月1號就會實施相關連帶的主管如果你的責任是督導內控防止洗錢發生問題你都要負連帶的責任是\n\n19\n00:06:34,777 --> 00:06:51,416\n現在的銀行法61條之一對於內積內控如果沒有做好的話那顯然什麼?顯然不是只有罰錢嗎?他本來61條之一是不是授權金管會可以做下面的這些處理部分停止部分的業務啊?有\n\n20\n00:06:52,565 --> 00:07:10,211\n對嗎?是都可以考量那以協助詐騙集團這麼嚴重出的內控聲明書明顯虛偽不實就沒做到嘛只打兩千萬齁我請金管會回去再思考一下再思考一下是不是未來在面對\n\n21\n00:07:11,991 --> 00:07:33,322\n因為銀行他們前面的內機內控沒有做好甚至有參與詐騙不是只有罰錢了事該負責任的人員同時要就責主委這個方向您贊不贊成我們會朝委員指導的方向去研究OK好謝謝好謝謝黃國昌委員的質詢接著我們請游浩委員游浩委員游浩委員不在接著我們請林楚敏委員質詢\n\n","tsv":"start\tend\ttext\n4093\t22502\t謝謝主席是不是麻煩有請金管會主委以及投資人及期貨交易保護中心看董事長或總經理誰業務就誰上來都可以不用客氣好謝謝委員吳安有請黃主委董事長是張新帝\n29825\t51848\t兩位時間的關係不一一問候大家非常關心有關於打詐的問題去年警察官開論壇希望我們的行政機關在前面先做好管控切斷他們的犯罪工具我相信這個政策方向主委一定是認同的那我比較關心的是我們依照洗錢防治法授權金管會所訂立的辦法\n52689\t77957\t各個金控或是銀行他們必須要出具防治洗錢的內控聲明書這個防治洗錢的內控聲明書基本上是希望他們自我要求自我做好不管是金控法還是銀行法裡面都有相關的規定但我現在的問題是這個內控聲明書有意義嗎?有用嗎?我的意思是說假設出了這個內控聲明書但實際上面內積內空一塌糊塗的話監管會的應對是什麼?\n83571\t100138\t這個我們從內控上面也可以處分可以處分洗方法也可以處分可不可以重其重是是重其重好來我們繼續往下看這紙聲明書做出來了以後我們看一下剛剛我不是針對特地的銀行\n100458\t117293\t但這家銀行戰績太輝煌了所以我特別把他的內控聲明書調出來看每一年的內控聲明書針對內積內控針對房洗房都沒有問題有確實遵守來我們看一下第一線警警他們在辦案的時候看出來的是什麼\n118975\t134248\t2022年各銀行涉案人頭賬戶的佔比第一名中國信託就有剛剛出具內控聲明書的那一家總共人頭賬戶有上萬個欸佔比是百分之三十欸主委你認為這樣子的內控算有做好嗎?\n135595\t160369\t所以我們就相關個案有嚴正的採處這兩個部分一個是等到刑事偵查的時候去採處那這個是屬於事後處罰的問題一個是前面針對內機內控的部分到底有沒有做好有沒有採處進行了什麼樣的採處主委你要講的那個例子我知道我們繼續往下看\n161425\t187917\t川普信託他不僅僅是內積內扣沒做好他不是說房子洗錢沒做好、內積內扣沒做好他是離譜到什麼他是離譜到自己的行員去參與犯罪組織共同實施詐騙、洗錢第一審刑事判決出來了判了6年6個月那當然判完了以後法官同時告發\n189018\t194435\t說中國信託啊他也是犯罪行為人這件事情主委你應該認同很離譜吧\n195831\t220677\t我們覺得不應該發生是 很好 非常好下一頁結果你們在採取的說明書裡面我看到的中國信託他們幹的事情不是只有違反內心內控喔如果是只有房子洗錢的規定沒有做好那個是抽象制度性的問題嘛表示我們市錢預防的功能沒有做好控制沒有做好但\n221537\t233554\t他是實際上面行員、金融機構行員參與犯罪組織去詐騙、去洗錢但我看了金管會的財主書主委可能認為罰他們兩千萬很重\n237771\t254811\t我可能認為罰他們兩千萬很重但如果以中國信託他們一年的獲利額剛剛四千委員就質詢了光到收手續費的部分就超過四百億了罰個兩千萬會不會痛有沒有用社會有公平但我現在分兩個層次來請教\n257014\t285487\t第一個層次是這麼嚴重的行為你們為什麼在發財處書的時候相關的事實相關的行為沒有辦法像美國的監理機構一樣具細米疑具體的把它寫清楚它是屬於辦理客戶零過申請調高銀行網路轉帳及ATM提領日限而作業所涉缺失嗎是這樣子輕描淡寫就把它的不應該的地方\n287308\t291033\t這可責性的行為,這樣算有充分描述嗎?\n305669\t323477\t想法我沒有在苛責金管會的同仁因為這種立稿的方式我們大概寫了一二十年長的都是這個樣子不是你當主委才變這樣如果是你當主委才變這樣那一定是你的責任嘛但我給金管會的建議是什麼去看一看\n324659\t343452\t外國的監理機關針對這麼離譜的事情事實是要把它寫得很清楚他們到底做錯了什麼事情讓社會大眾知道這樣子的採取才有意義嘛第二個部分公罰錢有沒有用罰錢其實是罰誰的錢是罰全體股東的錢嗎\n345874\t367709\t但是那些出具內資內控聲明書的人從法針到集合到封控到最後高階的經理人每一個人都簽了字結果根本沒有做好嘛我現在講的還不是只有這個個案喔從通案到個案比率最高一年一萬多個人頭賬戶\n369430\t393997\t具體的個案目前被抓到的有銀行員參與詐騙死罰兩千萬能夠有效後組嗎?主委你覺得呢委員所以我們今年1月14號我們通過銀行責任地圖不是說將來發生問題只要罰錢明年1月1號就會實施相關連帶的主管如果你的責任是督導內控防止洗錢發生問題你都要負連帶的責任是\n394777\t411416\t現在的銀行法61條之一對於內積內控如果沒有做好的話那顯然什麼?顯然不是只有罰錢嗎?他本來61條之一是不是授權金管會可以做下面的這些處理部分停止部分的業務啊?有\n412565\t430211\t對嗎?是都可以考量那以協助詐騙集團這麼嚴重出的內控聲明書明顯虛偽不實就沒做到嘛只打兩千萬齁我請金管會回去再思考一下再思考一下是不是未來在面對\n431991\t453322\t因為銀行他們前面的內機內控沒有做好甚至有參與詐騙不是只有罰錢了事該負責任的人員同時要就責主委這個方向您贊不贊成我們會朝委員指導的方向去研究OK好謝謝好謝謝黃國昌委員的質詢接著我們請游浩委員游浩委員游浩委員不在接著我們請林楚敏委員質詢\n","txt":"謝謝主席是不是麻煩有請金管會主委以及投資人及期貨交易保護中心看董事長或總經理誰業務就誰上來都可以不用客氣好謝謝委員吳安有請黃主委董事長是張新帝\n兩位時間的關係不一一問候大家非常關心有關於打詐的問題去年警察官開論壇希望我們的行政機關在前面先做好管控切斷他們的犯罪工具我相信這個政策方向主委一定是認同的那我比較關心的是我們依照洗錢防治法授權金管會所訂立的辦法\n各個金控或是銀行他們必須要出具防治洗錢的內控聲明書這個防治洗錢的內控聲明書基本上是希望他們自我要求自我做好不管是金控法還是銀行法裡面都有相關的規定但我現在的問題是這個內控聲明書有意義嗎?有用嗎?我的意思是說假設出了這個內控聲明書但實際上面內積內空一塌糊塗的話監管會的應對是什麼?\n這個我們從內控上面也可以處分可以處分洗方法也可以處分可不可以重其重是是重其重好來我們繼續往下看這紙聲明書做出來了以後我們看一下剛剛我不是針對特地的銀行\n但這家銀行戰績太輝煌了所以我特別把他的內控聲明書調出來看每一年的內控聲明書針對內積內控針對房洗房都沒有問題有確實遵守來我們看一下第一線警警他們在辦案的時候看出來的是什麼\n2022年各銀行涉案人頭賬戶的佔比第一名中國信託就有剛剛出具內控聲明書的那一家總共人頭賬戶有上萬個欸佔比是百分之三十欸主委你認為這樣子的內控算有做好嗎?\n所以我們就相關個案有嚴正的採處這兩個部分一個是等到刑事偵查的時候去採處那這個是屬於事後處罰的問題一個是前面針對內機內控的部分到底有沒有做好有沒有採處進行了什麼樣的採處主委你要講的那個例子我知道我們繼續往下看\n川普信託他不僅僅是內積內扣沒做好他不是說房子洗錢沒做好、內積內扣沒做好他是離譜到什麼他是離譜到自己的行員去參與犯罪組織共同實施詐騙、洗錢第一審刑事判決出來了判了6年6個月那當然判完了以後法官同時告發\n說中國信託啊他也是犯罪行為人這件事情主委你應該認同很離譜吧\n我們覺得不應該發生是 很好 非常好下一頁結果你們在採取的說明書裡面我看到的中國信託他們幹的事情不是只有違反內心內控喔如果是只有房子洗錢的規定沒有做好那個是抽象制度性的問題嘛表示我們市錢預防的功能沒有做好控制沒有做好但\n他是實際上面行員、金融機構行員參與犯罪組織去詐騙、去洗錢但我看了金管會的財主書主委可能認為罰他們兩千萬很重\n我可能認為罰他們兩千萬很重但如果以中國信託他們一年的獲利額剛剛四千委員就質詢了光到收手續費的部分就超過四百億了罰個兩千萬會不會痛有沒有用社會有公平但我現在分兩個層次來請教\n第一個層次是這麼嚴重的行為你們為什麼在發財處書的時候相關的事實相關的行為沒有辦法像美國的監理機構一樣具細米疑具體的把它寫清楚它是屬於辦理客戶零過申請調高銀行網路轉帳及ATM提領日限而作業所涉缺失嗎是這樣子輕描淡寫就把它的不應該的地方\n這可責性的行為,這樣算有充分描述嗎?\n想法我沒有在苛責金管會的同仁因為這種立稿的方式我們大概寫了一二十年長的都是這個樣子不是你當主委才變這樣如果是你當主委才變這樣那一定是你的責任嘛但我給金管會的建議是什麼去看一看\n外國的監理機關針對這麼離譜的事情事實是要把它寫得很清楚他們到底做錯了什麼事情讓社會大眾知道這樣子的採取才有意義嘛第二個部分公罰錢有沒有用罰錢其實是罰誰的錢是罰全體股東的錢嗎\n但是那些出具內資內控聲明書的人從法針到集合到封控到最後高階的經理人每一個人都簽了字結果根本沒有做好嘛我現在講的還不是只有這個個案喔從通案到個案比率最高一年一萬多個人頭賬戶\n具體的個案目前被抓到的有銀行員參與詐騙死罰兩千萬能夠有效後組嗎?主委你覺得呢委員所以我們今年1月14號我們通過銀行責任地圖不是說將來發生問題只要罰錢明年1月1號就會實施相關連帶的主管如果你的責任是督導內控防止洗錢發生問題你都要負連帶的責任是\n現在的銀行法61條之一對於內積內控如果沒有做好的話那顯然什麼?顯然不是只有罰錢嗎?他本來61條之一是不是授權金管會可以做下面的這些處理部分停止部分的業務啊?有\n對嗎?是都可以考量那以協助詐騙集團這麼嚴重出的內控聲明書明顯虛偽不實就沒做到嘛只打兩千萬齁我請金管會回去再思考一下再思考一下是不是未來在面對\n因為銀行他們前面的內機內控沒有做好甚至有參與詐騙不是只有罰錢了事該負責任的人員同時要就責主委這個方向您贊不贊成我們會朝委員指導的方向去研究OK好謝謝好謝謝黃國昌委員的質詢接著我們請游浩委員游浩委員游浩委員不在接著我們請林楚敏委員質詢\n","vtt":"WEBVTT\n\n00:04.093 --> 00:22.502\n謝謝主席是不是麻煩有請金管會主委以及投資人及期貨交易保護中心看董事長或總經理誰業務就誰上來都可以不用客氣好謝謝委員吳安有請黃主委董事長是張新帝\n\n00:29.825 --> 00:51.848\n兩位時間的關係不一一問候大家非常關心有關於打詐的問題去年警察官開論壇希望我們的行政機關在前面先做好管控切斷他們的犯罪工具我相信這個政策方向主委一定是認同的那我比較關心的是我們依照洗錢防治法授權金管會所訂立的辦法\n\n00:52.689 --> 01:17.957\n各個金控或是銀行他們必須要出具防治洗錢的內控聲明書這個防治洗錢的內控聲明書基本上是希望他們自我要求自我做好不管是金控法還是銀行法裡面都有相關的規定但我現在的問題是這個內控聲明書有意義嗎?有用嗎?我的意思是說假設出了這個內控聲明書但實際上面內積內空一塌糊塗的話監管會的應對是什麼?\n\n01:23.571 --> 01:40.138\n這個我們從內控上面也可以處分可以處分洗方法也可以處分可不可以重其重是是重其重好來我們繼續往下看這紙聲明書做出來了以後我們看一下剛剛我不是針對特地的銀行\n\n01:40.458 --> 01:57.293\n但這家銀行戰績太輝煌了所以我特別把他的內控聲明書調出來看每一年的內控聲明書針對內積內控針對房洗房都沒有問題有確實遵守來我們看一下第一線警警他們在辦案的時候看出來的是什麼\n\n01:58.975 --> 02:14.248\n2022年各銀行涉案人頭賬戶的佔比第一名中國信託就有剛剛出具內控聲明書的那一家總共人頭賬戶有上萬個欸佔比是百分之三十欸主委你認為這樣子的內控算有做好嗎?\n\n02:15.595 --> 02:40.369\n所以我們就相關個案有嚴正的採處這兩個部分一個是等到刑事偵查的時候去採處那這個是屬於事後處罰的問題一個是前面針對內機內控的部分到底有沒有做好有沒有採處進行了什麼樣的採處主委你要講的那個例子我知道我們繼續往下看\n\n02:41.425 --> 03:07.917\n川普信託他不僅僅是內積內扣沒做好他不是說房子洗錢沒做好、內積內扣沒做好他是離譜到什麼他是離譜到自己的行員去參與犯罪組織共同實施詐騙、洗錢第一審刑事判決出來了判了6年6個月那當然判完了以後法官同時告發\n\n03:09.018 --> 03:14.435\n說中國信託啊他也是犯罪行為人這件事情主委你應該認同很離譜吧\n\n03:15.831 --> 03:40.677\n我們覺得不應該發生是很好非常好下一頁結果你們在採取的說明書裡面我看到的中國信託他們幹的事情不是只有違反內心內控喔如果是只有房子洗錢的規定沒有做好那個是抽象制度性的問題嘛表示我們市錢預防的功能沒有做好控制沒有做好但\n\n03:41.537 --> 03:53.554\n他是實際上面行員、金融機構行員參與犯罪組織去詐騙、去洗錢但我看了金管會的財主書主委可能認為罰他們兩千萬很重\n\n03:57.771 --> 04:14.811\n我可能認為罰他們兩千萬很重但如果以中國信託他們一年的獲利額剛剛四千委員就質詢了光到收手續費的部分就超過四百億了罰個兩千萬會不會痛有沒有用社會有公平但我現在分兩個層次來請教\n\n04:17.014 --> 04:45.487\n第一個層次是這麼嚴重的行為你們為什麼在發財處書的時候相關的事實相關的行為沒有辦法像美國的監理機構一樣具細米疑具體的把它寫清楚它是屬於辦理客戶零過申請調高銀行網路轉帳及ATM提領日限而作業所涉缺失嗎是這樣子輕描淡寫就把它的不應該的地方\n\n04:47.308 --> 04:51.033\n這可責性的行為,這樣算有充分描述嗎?\n\n05:05.669 --> 05:23.477\n想法我沒有在苛責金管會的同仁因為這種立稿的方式我們大概寫了一二十年長的都是這個樣子不是你當主委才變這樣如果是你當主委才變這樣那一定是你的責任嘛但我給金管會的建議是什麼去看一看\n\n05:24.659 --> 05:43.452\n外國的監理機關針對這麼離譜的事情事實是要把它寫得很清楚他們到底做錯了什麼事情讓社會大眾知道這樣子的採取才有意義嘛第二個部分公罰錢有沒有用罰錢其實是罰誰的錢是罰全體股東的錢嗎\n\n05:45.874 --> 06:07.709\n但是那些出具內資內控聲明書的人從法針到集合到封控到最後高階的經理人每一個人都簽了字結果根本沒有做好嘛我現在講的還不是只有這個個案喔從通案到個案比率最高一年一萬多個人頭賬戶\n\n06:09.430 --> 06:33.997\n具體的個案目前被抓到的有銀行員參與詐騙死罰兩千萬能夠有效後組嗎?主委你覺得呢委員所以我們今年1月14號我們通過銀行責任地圖不是說將來發生問題只要罰錢明年1月1號就會實施相關連帶的主管如果你的責任是督導內控防止洗錢發生問題你都要負連帶的責任是\n\n06:34.777 --> 06:51.416\n現在的銀行法61條之一對於內積內控如果沒有做好的話那顯然什麼?顯然不是只有罰錢嗎?他本來61條之一是不是授權金管會可以做下面的這些處理部分停止部分的業務啊?有\n\n06:52.565 --> 07:10.211\n對嗎?是都可以考量那以協助詐騙集團這麼嚴重出的內控聲明書明顯虛偽不實就沒做到嘛只打兩千萬齁我請金管會回去再思考一下再思考一下是不是未來在面對\n\n07:11.991 --> 07:33.322\n因為銀行他們前面的內機內控沒有做好甚至有參與詐騙不是只有罰錢了事該負責任的人員同時要就責主委這個方向您贊不贊成我們會朝委員指導的方向去研究OK好謝謝好謝謝黃國昌委員的質詢接著我們請游浩委員游浩委員游浩委員不在接著我們請林楚敏委員質詢\n\n","segments":[{"start":4.093,"end":22.502,"text":"謝謝主席是不是麻煩有請金管會主委以及投資人及期貨交易保護中心看董事長或總經理誰業務就誰上來都可以不用客氣好謝謝委員吳安有請黃主委董事長是張新帝"},{"start":29.825,"end":51.848,"text":"兩位時間的關係不一一問候大家非常關心有關於打詐的問題去年警察官開論壇希望我們的行政機關在前面先做好管控切斷他們的犯罪工具我相信這個政策方向主委一定是認同的那我比較關心的是我們依照洗錢防治法授權金管會所訂立的辦法"},{"start":52.689,"end":77.957,"text":"各個金控或是銀行他們必須要出具防治洗錢的內控聲明書這個防治洗錢的內控聲明書基本上是希望他們自我要求自我做好不管是金控法還是銀行法裡面都有相關的規定但我現在的問題是這個內控聲明書有意義嗎?有用嗎?我的意思是說假設出了這個內控聲明書但實際上面內積內空一塌糊塗的話監管會的應對是什麼?"},{"start":83.571,"end":100.138,"text":"這個我們從內控上面也可以處分可以處分洗方法也可以處分可不可以重其重是是重其重好來我們繼續往下看這紙聲明書做出來了以後我們看一下剛剛我不是針對特地的銀行"},{"start":100.458,"end":117.293,"text":"但這家銀行戰績太輝煌了所以我特別把他的內控聲明書調出來看每一年的內控聲明書針對內積內控針對房洗房都沒有問題有確實遵守來我們看一下第一線警警他們在辦案的時候看出來的是什麼"},{"start":118.975,"end":134.248,"text":"2022年各銀行涉案人頭賬戶的佔比第一名中國信託就有剛剛出具內控聲明書的那一家總共人頭賬戶有上萬個欸佔比是百分之三十欸主委你認為這樣子的內控算有做好嗎?"},{"start":135.595,"end":160.369,"text":"所以我們就相關個案有嚴正的採處這兩個部分一個是等到刑事偵查的時候去採處那這個是屬於事後處罰的問題一個是前面針對內機內控的部分到底有沒有做好有沒有採處進行了什麼樣的採處主委你要講的那個例子我知道我們繼續往下看"},{"start":161.425,"end":187.917,"text":"川普信託他不僅僅是內積內扣沒做好他不是說房子洗錢沒做好、內積內扣沒做好他是離譜到什麼他是離譜到自己的行員去參與犯罪組織共同實施詐騙、洗錢第一審刑事判決出來了判了6年6個月那當然判完了以後法官同時告發"},{"start":189.018,"end":194.435,"text":"說中國信託啊他也是犯罪行為人這件事情主委你應該認同很離譜吧"},{"start":195.831,"end":220.677,"text":"我們覺得不應該發生是 很好 非常好下一頁結果你們在採取的說明書裡面我看到的中國信託他們幹的事情不是只有違反內心內控喔如果是只有房子洗錢的規定沒有做好那個是抽象制度性的問題嘛表示我們市錢預防的功能沒有做好控制沒有做好但"},{"start":221.537,"end":233.554,"text":"他是實際上面行員、金融機構行員參與犯罪組織去詐騙、去洗錢但我看了金管會的財主書主委可能認為罰他們兩千萬很重"},{"start":237.771,"end":254.811,"text":"我可能認為罰他們兩千萬很重但如果以中國信託他們一年的獲利額剛剛四千委員就質詢了光到收手續費的部分就超過四百億了罰個兩千萬會不會痛有沒有用社會有公平但我現在分兩個層次來請教"},{"start":257.014,"end":285.487,"text":"第一個層次是這麼嚴重的行為你們為什麼在發財處書的時候相關的事實相關的行為沒有辦法像美國的監理機構一樣具細米疑具體的把它寫清楚它是屬於辦理客戶零過申請調高銀行網路轉帳及ATM提領日限而作業所涉缺失嗎是這樣子輕描淡寫就把它的不應該的地方"},{"start":287.308,"end":291.033,"text":"這可責性的行為,這樣算有充分描述嗎?"},{"start":305.669,"end":323.477,"text":"想法我沒有在苛責金管會的同仁因為這種立稿的方式我們大概寫了一二十年長的都是這個樣子不是你當主委才變這樣如果是你當主委才變這樣那一定是你的責任嘛但我給金管會的建議是什麼去看一看"},{"start":324.659,"end":343.452,"text":"外國的監理機關針對這麼離譜的事情事實是要把它寫得很清楚他們到底做錯了什麼事情讓社會大眾知道這樣子的採取才有意義嘛第二個部分公罰錢有沒有用罰錢其實是罰誰的錢是罰全體股東的錢嗎"},{"start":345.874,"end":367.709,"text":"但是那些出具內資內控聲明書的人從法針到集合到封控到最後高階的經理人每一個人都簽了字結果根本沒有做好嘛我現在講的還不是只有這個個案喔從通案到個案比率最高一年一萬多個人頭賬戶"},{"start":369.43,"end":393.997,"text":"具體的個案目前被抓到的有銀行員參與詐騙死罰兩千萬能夠有效後組嗎?主委你覺得呢委員所以我們今年1月14號我們通過銀行責任地圖不是說將來發生問題只要罰錢明年1月1號就會實施相關連帶的主管如果你的責任是督導內控防止洗錢發生問題你都要負連帶的責任是"},{"start":394.777,"end":411.416,"text":"現在的銀行法61條之一對於內積內控如果沒有做好的話那顯然什麼?顯然不是只有罰錢嗎?他本來61條之一是不是授權金管會可以做下面的這些處理部分停止部分的業務啊?有"},{"start":412.565,"end":430.211,"text":"對嗎?是都可以考量那以協助詐騙集團這麼嚴重出的內控聲明書明顯虛偽不實就沒做到嘛只打兩千萬齁我請金管會回去再思考一下再思考一下是不是未來在面對"},{"start":431.991,"end":453.322,"text":"因為銀行他們前面的內機內控沒有做好甚至有參與詐騙不是只有罰錢了事該負責任的人員同時要就責主委這個方向您贊不贊成我們會朝委員指導的方向去研究OK好謝謝好謝謝黃國昌委員的質詢接著我們請游浩委員游浩委員游浩委員不在接著我們請林楚敏委員質詢"}]}}}}