{"id":149290,"url":"https://ivod.ly.gov.tw/Play/Clip/1M/149290","video_url":"https://ivod-lyvod.cdn.hinet.net/vod_1/_definst_/mp4:1MClips/ad9f873b941d2dddcf8be2aa80e87b0cf012038cf3c9e62ff8ba9b0039caa7a6ce81d6666162f8ef5ea18f28b6918d91.mp4/playlist.m3u8","委員名稱":"羅智強","委員發言時間":"13:10:17 - 13:17:13","影片長度":"00:06:56","會議時間":"2024-03-04T09:00:00+08:00","會議名稱":"立法院第11屆第1會期社會福利及衛生環境委員會第2次全體委員會議（事由：邀請行政院食品安全辦公室、衛生福利部部長、食品藥物管理署就「食安五環執行狀況及蘇丹紅事件處理之檢討」進行專題報告，並備質詢。）","meet":{"tmpMeeting":null,"title":"第11屆第1會期社會福利及衛生環境委員會第2次全體委員會議","term":11,"type":"委員會","sessionPeriod":1,"sessionTimes":2,"committees":[26],"id":"委員會-11-1-26-2"},"date":"2024-03-04","duration":416,"end_time":"2024-03-04T13:17:13+08:00","start_time":"2024-03-04T13:10:17+08:00","features":["ai-transcript","gazette"],"type":"Clip","gazette":{"lineno":1306,"blocks":[["羅委員智強：（13時10分）主席，有請部長。"],["主席：好，部長請。"],["薛部長瑞元：委員好。"],["羅委員智強：部長，想請教您，這次沸沸揚揚的蘇丹紅事件，在行政院的定性當中，它是系統性食安問題還是個案？"],["薛部長瑞元：它是系統性問題。"],["羅委員智強：非常好，是系統性。","那這個蘇丹紅事件已經爆發多久了？"],["薛部長瑞元：其實它是逐漸地演變過來，因為一開始我們是查辣椒粉……"],["羅委員智強：我直接問您，2月21日陳建仁院長在做食安報告的時候，蘇丹紅事件就發生了嘛？"],["薛部長瑞元：應該是可以這樣講。"],["羅委員智強：請問，在他的食安報告當中，有把蘇丹紅事件放進去嗎？"],["薛部長瑞元：是沒有放進去，因為那時候事情還沒有釐得很清楚。"],["羅委員智強：我要告訴部長一個重點，上次陳建仁院長的食安報告有一個很重要的結論，就是說蔡英文總統任內的食安安全維護的工作做得比馬英九要強嘛，對不對？"],["薛部長瑞元：對，那個報告裡面是這樣講。"],["羅委員智強：但是我從頭到尾看到裡面只有一個客觀的數字，叫做系統性食安事件的比較，你們舉了馬政府7件，那你們自己舉幾件？"],["薛部長瑞元：我印象中是兩件。"],["羅委員智強：兩件，不算蘇丹紅，是兩件。","那麼系統性食安問題，這是你用來認定什麼是系統性、什麼是個案，那你再據以來認定說，馬政府的食安做得比你們差，可是整篇陳建仁院長的報告，我沒有看到有其他的論點、論述說他做得比較好。我舉個例子，陳建仁院長跟我在數字上的交鋒質詢，我有問他說：馬政府時期食品中毒的人數跟蔡英文總統時期哪一個比較多，上次我問過，當時你在旁邊嘛。"],["薛部長瑞元：對，是說馬政府時比較少。"],["羅委員智強：蔡英文時期比較多嘛，對不對？然後院長還不相信我的數字，要回去查，那請問回去查的結果是誰比較多？"],["薛部長瑞元：因為其實一般來講，食物中毒案件的話，要……"],["羅委員智強：我知道啦，院長當場就回答我說，食品中毒不是食安問題嘛，你認同這個觀點嗎？"],["薛部長瑞元：這是食安問題，但是很難歸類……"],["羅委員智強：那很好啊，你又更正院長，沒關係，我就跟你講，至少食品安全的部分馬政府做得比你好啊，以數字來看啊。然後你在食安報告當中一直強調，你們檢驗很多嘛，對不對？是吧？因為檢驗非常積極，我認同這個，檢驗積極也代表對食安的重視嘛，對不對？那你也知道我也問了院長一句話：請問馬政府檢驗食品安全的檢驗數高還是蔡英文政府？"],["薛部長瑞元：這要看檢驗……"],["羅委員智強：不用看啦，你看中華民國統計資訊網就知道了，平均每年馬政府是72萬件，蔡英文政府是51萬件，每年多了21萬件，你檢驗數字不如人，食品中毒數字又比人家高，結果就是因為你們定性為系統性跟個案，你作一個結論，說你們做得比較好。接下來我就問，實驗室標準的蘇丹紅一公克大概多少錢？實驗室標準的蘇丹紅。"],["薛部長瑞元：我們手上沒有這個資料。"],["羅委員智強：胸腔科醫師蘇一峰說，大概就是一公克17萬臺幣嘛，對不對？"],["薛部長瑞元：是蘇丹紅嗎？"],["羅委員智強：他講蘇丹紅，實驗室購買的蘇丹紅。那食安辦要不要說蘇丹紅比黃金跟鑽石還要貴，所以不會有人拿來使用？會不會有這個結論？"],["薛部長瑞元：應該是不一樣的，一個是在實驗室，一個是在……"],["羅委員智強：答對了。那當初為什麼在討論西布特羅時就會出現這個論點呢？"],["薛部長瑞元：因為西布特羅沒有在其他地方用。"],["羅委員智強：我再問您，我想請教您，2018年公告列管蘇丹紅之後，什麼時候首次查到辣椒粉添加蘇丹紅？蘇丹紅的事件這麼大，部長，這個基本數字恐怕你要知道。2021年9月。想請問你，事發到現在兩年半，食藥署做了什麼積極防範？結果蘇丹紅越查越多。"],["薛部長瑞元：我跟委員報告，蘇丹紅在過去111年的時候，在邊境上面並沒有檢出。"],["羅委員智強：2022年到2023年，143批的辣椒粉有9批不合格，那為什麼到2023年12月才開始逐批查驗？"],["薛部長瑞元：那個不合格其實是有多種的，主要是農藥，農藥不合格是占多數。"],["羅委員智強：我再問部長，光是雄檢查封高雄輸入跟製造業者違規產品就達到3萬2,739公斤，可是我看到衛福部的報告說是2萬3,759公斤，為什麼差了1萬公斤？"],["薛部長瑞元：差一天，結果是雄檢就去扣押了這個……"],["羅委員智強：所以顯然你們的計算標準跟雄檢也不一樣，那我就要跟大家講，從這個角度來看，我們難道不用擔心有多少的蘇丹紅不在你的控管範圍之內，有冰山一角沒被看到的，有沒有？"],["薛部長瑞元：我們現在就循線在查……"],["羅委員智強：我問有沒有嘛！"],["薛部長瑞元：當然有可能，我們目前……"],["羅委員智強：有可能而已喔？我跟各位講，我沒有苛責食藥署或苛責衛福部，食品查驗通常就是冰山一角理論，你知道吧？你查到，代表在查到之前有多少流入市面？你開始全面逐批查驗之前有多少流入市面？有沒有估過？"],["薛部長瑞元：這個部分我們是沒有正確去估啦。"],["羅委員智強：最後，我要跟部長說一句話，食安問題不要牽拖前朝，食安問題在蔡英文總統任內就好好地面對，不要去用一些很特殊的標準，然後去做一些很奇怪的比較，現在蘇丹紅事件發生，請我們衛福部繃緊神經，捍衛人民的食安，好不好？"],["薛部長瑞元：對，我們現在就是針對蘇丹紅食安，我們自己擔起這個責任。"],["羅委員智強：謝謝部長，感謝您。"],["主席：好，我們謝謝羅智強委員的質詢。","本日會議詢答全部結束，委員林德福所提書面質詢列入紀錄，刊登公報。"],["委員林德福書面質詢：","問題一","首先，「食品安全」沒有「意識形態」，不分朝野，都希望國人吃得健康。全國民眾也期待「中央」與「地方」政府共同合作，替民眾好好把關食品安全。","最近這幾天占據媒體版面的食品安全違規案件發生，究竟是「食安法」罰責過輕，還是「抽檢頻率」過低，讓「業者」心存僥倖？薛部長在520前，是否會重新檢討「食安法」？還是交由「新執政團隊」規劃？","問題二","去年「好市多進口莓果受A肝病毒汙染事件」爆發，才發現「好市多」不需要依「食安法」設立「食品安全實驗室」，有許多立委認為「量販業者」也應投資食品安全，納入「應設置食品安全實驗室」規範中，「衛福部薛部長」您當時答詢允諾將研議。","如今已過了九個月，我的助理也再次向「食藥署」確認，有設立實驗室辦理自主檢驗事宜，目前只有「楓康超市」與「家樂福」兩家業者。","請問，這件事就不了了之了嗎？民眾每天上賣場採買生鮮食品，請問薛部長，要如何強化「食品通路業者」自主把關的責任？","問題三","「食安基金」113年度編列「食品安全保護計畫」3,760萬，提升地方政府辦理促進食品安全工作意願。","請問薛部長，目前該筆預算運用已有那些初步成果？本席希望將該計畫每季執行成果提供給全體立委參考。","此外，如果地方政府申請補助「食安保護計畫」踴躍，後續會如何因應？114年「食品安全保護計畫」預算是否會再翻倍成長？","問題四","日本福島核處理水前幾天進行第四批次排放，本席知道「核能安全委員會」有對「台灣周遭海域」進行輻射監測，目前並無影響。","但是，本席提醒衛福部，根據衛福部公布的「日本輸入食品輻射檢測結果」，對於「海鮮水產類」，曾查出39件含有輻射，且數值相較於日本其他食品都來得高。","本席希望衛福部要隨著「日本福島核處理水」「排放次數」與「排放總體積」的增加，對於日本輸台的「冷藏水產品」、「冷凍水產品」與「海草類」查驗頻率要隨之增加，以確保國人食品安全！"],["主席：現在作以下決定：一、報告及詢答完畢。二、委員質詢未及答復或請補充資料者，請相關機關於兩週內以書面答復。委員另要求期限者，從其所定。","本次會議到此結束，現在散會。謝謝部長、各部會首長。也謝謝各位委員、各位工作人員。謝謝。","散會（13時17分）"]],"agenda":{"page_end":296,"meet_id":"委員會-11-1-26-2","speakers":["王育敏","陳昭姿","陳菁徽","廖偉翔","林月琴","涂權吉","邱鎮軍","黃秀芳","蘇清泉","盧縣一","劉建國","王正旭","楊曜","林淑芬","陳雪生","洪孟楷","謝衣鳯","陳瑩","王鴻薇","黃國昌","楊瓊瓔","羅智強","林德福"],"page_start":209,"meetingDate":["2024-03-04"],"gazette_id":"1130601","agenda_lcidc_ids":["1130601_00009"],"meet_name":"立法院第11屆第1會期社會福利及衛生環境委員會第2次全體委員會議紀錄","content":"邀請行政院食品安全辦公室、衛生福利部部長、食品藥物管理署就「食安五環執行狀況及蘇丹紅\n事件處理之檢討」進行專題報告，並備質詢","agenda_id":"1130601_00008"}},"transcript":{"id":"149290","pyannote":{"name":"ronny","tool":"pyannote","data":{"url":"https://ivod.ly.gov.tw/Play/Clip/1M/149290","tool":"pyannote","id":"149290-pyannote"},"job_id":"9vftRhQXl1XR81pM","queued_at":"2024-06-02 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00:01:17,773\n我們陳建仁院長在報告食安報告的時候蘇丹紅事件就發生了嗎應該是可以這樣講請問在他的食安報告當中有把蘇丹紅事件放進去嗎是沒有放進去因為那時候事情還沒有理得很清楚我要告訴部長一個重點上次陳建仁院長食安報告有一個很重要結論就是說\n\n4\n00:01:20,782 --> 00:01:41,707\n這個蔡英文總統任內的食安這個安全維護的工作做得與馬英九要強嘛對不對但是我從頭到尾他只有一個客觀的數字叫做系統性食安的一個事件的比較嘛你們舉了馬政府七件嘛那你們自己舉幾件兩件不算蘇丹紅兩件\n\n5\n00:01:46,038 --> 00:01:57,832\n那系統性食安問題這是你用來認定什麼是系統性什麼是個案那你在據以來認定說馬政府的食安做得比你們差嘛\n\n6\n00:01:58,717 --> 00:02:17,748\n可是整篇陳建仁院長報告我沒有看到其他的論點論述說他做得比較好我舉個例子陳建仁院長跟我一個數字上的一個交鋒質詢我有問他說馬政府時期食品中毒的人數跟蔡英文總統時期哪一個時期比較多\n\n7\n00:02:20,783 --> 00:02:30,671\n上次我問過你在旁邊嘛蔡英文比較多嘛對不對然後院長還不相信我的數字要回去查那請問回去查的結果是誰比較多\n\n8\n00:02:34,949 --> 00:02:57,388\n因為這個其實是一般來講食中就食物中毒的案件的話我知道啦院長當場就回答食品中毒不是食安問題嘛你認同這個觀點嗎那很好你又更正院長沒關係我就跟你講至少食品安全的部分嘛政府做得比你好以數字來看啊然後你在食安報告當中一直強調你們檢驗很多嘛對不對\n\n9\n00:02:59,815 --> 00:03:24,765\n是吧因為檢驗數非常積極我認同這個檢驗積極的代表對食安的重視嘛對不對那你也知道我也問了院長一句話請問馬政府檢驗食品安全的檢驗數高還是蔡英文政府這要看檢驗多少不用看啦你看中華民國統計資訊網就知道啦平均每年馬政府是72萬件蔡英文政府是51萬件每年多了21萬件\n\n10\n00:03:26,348 --> 00:03:53,577\n你檢驗數字不如人食品中毒數字比人家高結果就是因為你們定性的系統性跟個案你給我做個結論說你們做得比較好那接下來就問齁實驗室標準的蘇丹紅一公克大概多少錢實驗室標準的蘇丹紅這個我們手上沒有這個資料胸腔科醫師蘇一峰說啦齁大概就是一公克17萬台幣嘛對不對是蘇丹紅嗎\n\n11\n00:03:56,912 --> 00:03:57,414\n他講蘇丹紅實驗室購買蘇丹紅\n\n12\n00:04:00,373 --> 00:04:26,893\n那食安辦要不要說蘇丹紅比黃金跟鑽石還要貴所以不會有拿來使用會不會有這個結論這應該是不一樣啦一個是在實驗室當然不一樣嘛答對了嘛那當初為什麼在西部特羅就會出現這個論點呢因為西部特羅沒有在其他地方用我再問您齁我想請教您齁2018公告列管蘇丹紅之後什麼時候首次查到辣椒粉添加蘇丹紅\n\n13\n00:04:30,752 --> 00:04:43,300\n蘇丹紅的事件這麼大部長這個基本數字恐怕你要知道2021年9月啦要想請問你事發到現在兩年半食藥署做什麼積極防範結果蘇丹紅越查越多\n\n14\n00:04:47,050 --> 00:05:08,182\n這部分的話其實我也跟委員報告就是說蘇丹紅這個事情的話是在過去111年的時候那在邊境上面並沒有檢出出來啦2022年到2023年143批的辣椒粉有9批不合格那為什麼到2023年12月才開始逐批查驗\n\n15\n00:05:09,639 --> 00:05:22,983\n那個不合格其實是有多種的包括說主要是農藥,農藥不合格是佔多數啦再問部長齁光熊檢、查豐、高雄酥魚跟自造業者違規產品就達到32739公斤\n\n16\n00:05:28,089 --> 00:05:57,489\n可是我看到這個衛福部的報告說是兩萬三千七百五十九公斤那為什麼差了一萬公斤所以顯然你們的計算標準跟雄檢也不一樣我就要跟大家講你到底從這個角度來我們難道不用擔心有多少的蘇丹紅不在你的控管範圍之內冰山一角沒被看到的有沒有\n\n17\n00:05:58,429 --> 00:06:27,272\n我們現在就尋現在查到當然有可能我們目前有可能而已喔我跟各位講我沒有苛責食藥署或苛責衛福部喔我只是講說食品查驗通常是就是冰山一角理論你知道吧你查到代表查到之前有多少流入市面這個比例上你開始全面逐批查驗之前有多少流入市面你有沒有估過這部分我們是沒有正確去估啦最後我要跟\n\n18\n00:06:28,151 --> 00:06:50,790\n部長說一句話啦食安問題不要牽扯前朝食安問題在蔡英文總統任內就好好的面對不要去用一些很特殊的標準然後去做一些很奇怪的比較現在蘇丹紅事件發生請我們衛福部繃緊神經捍衛人民的食安好不好我們現在就是針對蘇丹紅我們自己謝謝部長感謝您好我們謝謝\n\n","tsv":"start\tend\ttext\n15293\t18135\t主席有請部長部長請部長想請教您\n26042\t51335\t這次沸沸揚揚的蘇丹紅事件在這個行政院的定性當中它是系統性食安問題還是個案?它是系統性問題非常好是系統性那這個蘇丹紅事件已經爆發多久了?其實它是逐漸的演變過來因為一開始我們是擦我直接問您在上次2月21號的時候\n55212\t77773\t我們陳建仁院長在報告食安報告的時候蘇丹紅事件就發生了嗎應該是可以這樣講請問在他的食安報告當中有把蘇丹紅事件放進去嗎是沒有放進去因為那時候事情還沒有理得很清楚我要告訴部長一個重點上次陳建仁院長食安報告有一個很重要結論就是說\n80782\t101707\t這個蔡英文總統任內的食安這個安全維護的工作做得與馬英九要強嘛 對不對但是我從頭到尾他只有一個客觀的數字叫做系統性食安的一個事件的比較嘛你們舉了馬政府七件嘛那你們自己舉幾件兩件不算蘇丹紅兩件\n106038\t117832\t那系統性食安問題這是你用來認定什麼是系統性什麼是個案那你在據以來認定說馬政府的食安做得比你們差嘛\n118717\t137748\t可是整篇陳建仁院長報告我沒有看到其他的論點論述說他做得比較好我舉個例子陳建仁院長跟我一個數字上的一個交鋒質詢我有問他說馬政府時期食品中毒的人數跟蔡英文總統時期哪一個時期比較多\n140783\t150671\t上次我問過你在旁邊嘛蔡英文比較多嘛對不對然後院長還不相信我的數字要回去查那請問回去查的結果是誰比較多\n154949\t177388\t因為這個其實是一般來講食中就食物中毒的案件的話我知道啦 院長當場就回答食品中毒不是食安問題嘛你認同這個觀點嗎那很好你又更正院長沒關係我就跟你講至少食品安全的部分嘛政府做得比你好以數字來看啊然後你在食安報告當中一直強調你們檢驗很多嘛對不對\n179815\t204765\t是吧 因為檢驗數非常積極 我認同這個檢驗積極的代表對食安的重視嘛 對不對那你也知道 我也問了院長一句話請問馬政府檢驗食品安全的檢驗數高還是蔡英文政府這要看檢驗多少不用看啦 你看中華民國統計資訊網就知道啦平均每年馬政府是72萬件 蔡英文政府是51萬件每年多了21萬件\n206348\t233577\t你檢驗數字不如人食品中毒數字比人家高結果就是因為你們定性的系統性跟個案你給我做個結論說你們做得比較好那接下來就問齁實驗室標準的蘇丹紅一公克大概多少錢實驗室標準的蘇丹紅這個我們手上沒有這個資料胸腔科醫師蘇一峰說啦齁大概就是一公克17萬台幣嘛對不對是蘇丹紅嗎\n236912\t237414\t他講蘇丹紅實驗室購買蘇丹紅\n240373\t266893\t那食安辦要不要說蘇丹紅比黃金跟鑽石還要貴所以不會有拿來使用會不會有這個結論這應該是不一樣啦一個是在實驗室當然不一樣嘛答對了嘛那當初為什麼在西部特羅就會出現這個論點呢因為西部特羅沒有在其他地方用我再問您齁我想請教您齁2018公告列管蘇丹紅之後什麼時候首次查到辣椒粉添加蘇丹紅\n270752\t283300\t蘇丹紅的事件這麼大部長這個基本數字恐怕你要知道2021年9月啦要想請問你事發到現在兩年半食藥署做什麼積極防範結果蘇丹紅越查越多\n287050\t308182\t這部分的話其實我也跟委員報告就是說蘇丹紅這個事情的話是在過去111年的時候那在邊境上面並沒有檢出出來啦2022年到2023年143批的辣椒粉有9批不合格那為什麼到2023年12月才開始逐批查驗\n309639\t322983\t那個不合格其實是有多種的包括說主要是農藥,農藥不合格是佔多數啦再問部長齁光熊檢、查豐、高雄酥魚跟自造業者違規產品就達到32739公斤\n328089\t357489\t可是我看到這個衛福部的報告說是兩萬三千七百五十九公斤那為什麼差了一萬公斤所以顯然你們的計算標準跟雄檢也不一樣我就要跟大家講你到底從這個角度來我們難道不用擔心有多少的蘇丹紅不在你的控管範圍之內冰山一角沒被看到的有沒有\n358429\t387272\t我們現在就尋現在查到當然有可能我們目前有可能而已喔我跟各位講我沒有苛責食藥署或苛責衛福部喔我只是講說食品查驗通常是就是冰山一角理論你知道吧你查到代表查到之前有多少流入市面這個比例上你開始全面逐批查驗之前有多少流入市面你有沒有估過這部分我們是沒有正確去估啦最後我要跟\n388151\t410790\t部長說一句話啦食安問題不要牽扯前朝食安問題在蔡英文總統任內就好好的面對不要去用一些很特殊的標準然後去做一些很奇怪的比較現在蘇丹紅事件發生請我們衛福部繃緊神經捍衛人民的食安好不好我們現在就是針對蘇丹紅我們自己謝謝部長感謝您好我們謝謝\n","txt":"主席有請部長部長請部長想請教您\n這次沸沸揚揚的蘇丹紅事件在這個行政院的定性當中它是系統性食安問題還是個案?它是系統性問題非常好是系統性那這個蘇丹紅事件已經爆發多久了?其實它是逐漸的演變過來因為一開始我們是擦我直接問您在上次2月21號的時候\n我們陳建仁院長在報告食安報告的時候蘇丹紅事件就發生了嗎應該是可以這樣講請問在他的食安報告當中有把蘇丹紅事件放進去嗎是沒有放進去因為那時候事情還沒有理得很清楚我要告訴部長一個重點上次陳建仁院長食安報告有一個很重要結論就是說\n這個蔡英文總統任內的食安這個安全維護的工作做得與馬英九要強嘛 對不對但是我從頭到尾他只有一個客觀的數字叫做系統性食安的一個事件的比較嘛你們舉了馬政府七件嘛那你們自己舉幾件兩件不算蘇丹紅兩件\n那系統性食安問題這是你用來認定什麼是系統性什麼是個案那你在據以來認定說馬政府的食安做得比你們差嘛\n可是整篇陳建仁院長報告我沒有看到其他的論點論述說他做得比較好我舉個例子陳建仁院長跟我一個數字上的一個交鋒質詢我有問他說馬政府時期食品中毒的人數跟蔡英文總統時期哪一個時期比較多\n上次我問過你在旁邊嘛蔡英文比較多嘛對不對然後院長還不相信我的數字要回去查那請問回去查的結果是誰比較多\n因為這個其實是一般來講食中就食物中毒的案件的話我知道啦 院長當場就回答食品中毒不是食安問題嘛你認同這個觀點嗎那很好你又更正院長沒關係我就跟你講至少食品安全的部分嘛政府做得比你好以數字來看啊然後你在食安報告當中一直強調你們檢驗很多嘛對不對\n是吧 因為檢驗數非常積極 我認同這個檢驗積極的代表對食安的重視嘛 對不對那你也知道 我也問了院長一句話請問馬政府檢驗食品安全的檢驗數高還是蔡英文政府這要看檢驗多少不用看啦 你看中華民國統計資訊網就知道啦平均每年馬政府是72萬件 蔡英文政府是51萬件每年多了21萬件\n你檢驗數字不如人食品中毒數字比人家高結果就是因為你們定性的系統性跟個案你給我做個結論說你們做得比較好那接下來就問齁實驗室標準的蘇丹紅一公克大概多少錢實驗室標準的蘇丹紅這個我們手上沒有這個資料胸腔科醫師蘇一峰說啦齁大概就是一公克17萬台幣嘛對不對是蘇丹紅嗎\n他講蘇丹紅實驗室購買蘇丹紅\n那食安辦要不要說蘇丹紅比黃金跟鑽石還要貴所以不會有拿來使用會不會有這個結論這應該是不一樣啦一個是在實驗室當然不一樣嘛答對了嘛那當初為什麼在西部特羅就會出現這個論點呢因為西部特羅沒有在其他地方用我再問您齁我想請教您齁2018公告列管蘇丹紅之後什麼時候首次查到辣椒粉添加蘇丹紅\n蘇丹紅的事件這麼大部長這個基本數字恐怕你要知道2021年9月啦要想請問你事發到現在兩年半食藥署做什麼積極防範結果蘇丹紅越查越多\n這部分的話其實我也跟委員報告就是說蘇丹紅這個事情的話是在過去111年的時候那在邊境上面並沒有檢出出來啦2022年到2023年143批的辣椒粉有9批不合格那為什麼到2023年12月才開始逐批查驗\n那個不合格其實是有多種的包括說主要是農藥,農藥不合格是佔多數啦再問部長齁光熊檢、查豐、高雄酥魚跟自造業者違規產品就達到32739公斤\n可是我看到這個衛福部的報告說是兩萬三千七百五十九公斤那為什麼差了一萬公斤所以顯然你們的計算標準跟雄檢也不一樣我就要跟大家講你到底從這個角度來我們難道不用擔心有多少的蘇丹紅不在你的控管範圍之內冰山一角沒被看到的有沒有\n我們現在就尋現在查到當然有可能我們目前有可能而已喔我跟各位講我沒有苛責食藥署或苛責衛福部喔我只是講說食品查驗通常是就是冰山一角理論你知道吧你查到代表查到之前有多少流入市面這個比例上你開始全面逐批查驗之前有多少流入市面你有沒有估過這部分我們是沒有正確去估啦最後我要跟\n部長說一句話啦食安問題不要牽扯前朝食安問題在蔡英文總統任內就好好的面對不要去用一些很特殊的標準然後去做一些很奇怪的比較現在蘇丹紅事件發生請我們衛福部繃緊神經捍衛人民的食安好不好我們現在就是針對蘇丹紅我們自己謝謝部長感謝您好我們謝謝\n","vtt":"WEBVTT\n\n00:15.293 --> 00:18.135\n主席有請部長部長請部長想請教您\n\n00:26.042 --> 00:51.335\n這次沸沸揚揚的蘇丹紅事件在這個行政院的定性當中它是系統性食安問題還是個案?它是系統性問題非常好是系統性那這個蘇丹紅事件已經爆發多久了?其實它是逐漸的演變過來因為一開始我們是擦我直接問您在上次2月21號的時候\n\n00:55.212 --> 01:17.773\n我們陳建仁院長在報告食安報告的時候蘇丹紅事件就發生了嗎應該是可以這樣講請問在他的食安報告當中有把蘇丹紅事件放進去嗎是沒有放進去因為那時候事情還沒有理得很清楚我要告訴部長一個重點上次陳建仁院長食安報告有一個很重要結論就是說\n\n01:20.782 --> 01:41.707\n這個蔡英文總統任內的食安這個安全維護的工作做得與馬英九要強嘛對不對但是我從頭到尾他只有一個客觀的數字叫做系統性食安的一個事件的比較嘛你們舉了馬政府七件嘛那你們自己舉幾件兩件不算蘇丹紅兩件\n\n01:46.038 --> 01:57.832\n那系統性食安問題這是你用來認定什麼是系統性什麼是個案那你在據以來認定說馬政府的食安做得比你們差嘛\n\n01:58.717 --> 02:17.748\n可是整篇陳建仁院長報告我沒有看到其他的論點論述說他做得比較好我舉個例子陳建仁院長跟我一個數字上的一個交鋒質詢我有問他說馬政府時期食品中毒的人數跟蔡英文總統時期哪一個時期比較多\n\n02:20.783 --> 02:30.671\n上次我問過你在旁邊嘛蔡英文比較多嘛對不對然後院長還不相信我的數字要回去查那請問回去查的結果是誰比較多\n\n02:34.949 --> 02:57.388\n因為這個其實是一般來講食中就食物中毒的案件的話我知道啦院長當場就回答食品中毒不是食安問題嘛你認同這個觀點嗎那很好你又更正院長沒關係我就跟你講至少食品安全的部分嘛政府做得比你好以數字來看啊然後你在食安報告當中一直強調你們檢驗很多嘛對不對\n\n02:59.815 --> 03:24.765\n是吧因為檢驗數非常積極我認同這個檢驗積極的代表對食安的重視嘛對不對那你也知道我也問了院長一句話請問馬政府檢驗食品安全的檢驗數高還是蔡英文政府這要看檢驗多少不用看啦你看中華民國統計資訊網就知道啦平均每年馬政府是72萬件蔡英文政府是51萬件每年多了21萬件\n\n03:26.348 --> 03:53.577\n你檢驗數字不如人食品中毒數字比人家高結果就是因為你們定性的系統性跟個案你給我做個結論說你們做得比較好那接下來就問齁實驗室標準的蘇丹紅一公克大概多少錢實驗室標準的蘇丹紅這個我們手上沒有這個資料胸腔科醫師蘇一峰說啦齁大概就是一公克17萬台幣嘛對不對是蘇丹紅嗎\n\n03:56.912 --> 03:57.414\n他講蘇丹紅實驗室購買蘇丹紅\n\n04:00.373 --> 04:26.893\n那食安辦要不要說蘇丹紅比黃金跟鑽石還要貴所以不會有拿來使用會不會有這個結論這應該是不一樣啦一個是在實驗室當然不一樣嘛答對了嘛那當初為什麼在西部特羅就會出現這個論點呢因為西部特羅沒有在其他地方用我再問您齁我想請教您齁2018公告列管蘇丹紅之後什麼時候首次查到辣椒粉添加蘇丹紅\n\n04:30.752 --> 04:43.300\n蘇丹紅的事件這麼大部長這個基本數字恐怕你要知道2021年9月啦要想請問你事發到現在兩年半食藥署做什麼積極防範結果蘇丹紅越查越多\n\n04:47.050 --> 05:08.182\n這部分的話其實我也跟委員報告就是說蘇丹紅這個事情的話是在過去111年的時候那在邊境上面並沒有檢出出來啦2022年到2023年143批的辣椒粉有9批不合格那為什麼到2023年12月才開始逐批查驗\n\n05:09.639 --> 05:22.983\n那個不合格其實是有多種的包括說主要是農藥,農藥不合格是佔多數啦再問部長齁光熊檢、查豐、高雄酥魚跟自造業者違規產品就達到32739公斤\n\n05:28.089 --> 05:57.489\n可是我看到這個衛福部的報告說是兩萬三千七百五十九公斤那為什麼差了一萬公斤所以顯然你們的計算標準跟雄檢也不一樣我就要跟大家講你到底從這個角度來我們難道不用擔心有多少的蘇丹紅不在你的控管範圍之內冰山一角沒被看到的有沒有\n\n05:58.429 --> 06:27.272\n我們現在就尋現在查到當然有可能我們目前有可能而已喔我跟各位講我沒有苛責食藥署或苛責衛福部喔我只是講說食品查驗通常是就是冰山一角理論你知道吧你查到代表查到之前有多少流入市面這個比例上你開始全面逐批查驗之前有多少流入市面你有沒有估過這部分我們是沒有正確去估啦最後我要跟\n\n06:28.151 --> 06:50.790\n部長說一句話啦食安問題不要牽扯前朝食安問題在蔡英文總統任內就好好的面對不要去用一些很特殊的標準然後去做一些很奇怪的比較現在蘇丹紅事件發生請我們衛福部繃緊神經捍衛人民的食安好不好我們現在就是針對蘇丹紅我們自己謝謝部長感謝您好我們謝謝\n\n","segments":[{"start":15.293,"end":18.135,"text":"主席有請部長部長請部長想請教您"},{"start":26.042,"end":51.335,"text":"這次沸沸揚揚的蘇丹紅事件在這個行政院的定性當中它是系統性食安問題還是個案?它是系統性問題非常好是系統性那這個蘇丹紅事件已經爆發多久了?其實它是逐漸的演變過來因為一開始我們是擦我直接問您在上次2月21號的時候"},{"start":55.212,"end":77.773,"text":"我們陳建仁院長在報告食安報告的時候蘇丹紅事件就發生了嗎應該是可以這樣講請問在他的食安報告當中有把蘇丹紅事件放進去嗎是沒有放進去因為那時候事情還沒有理得很清楚我要告訴部長一個重點上次陳建仁院長食安報告有一個很重要結論就是說"},{"start":80.782,"end":101.707,"text":"這個蔡英文總統任內的食安這個安全維護的工作做得與馬英九要強嘛 對不對但是我從頭到尾他只有一個客觀的數字叫做系統性食安的一個事件的比較嘛你們舉了馬政府七件嘛那你們自己舉幾件兩件不算蘇丹紅兩件"},{"start":106.038,"end":117.832,"text":"那系統性食安問題這是你用來認定什麼是系統性什麼是個案那你在據以來認定說馬政府的食安做得比你們差嘛"},{"start":118.717,"end":137.748,"text":"可是整篇陳建仁院長報告我沒有看到其他的論點論述說他做得比較好我舉個例子陳建仁院長跟我一個數字上的一個交鋒質詢我有問他說馬政府時期食品中毒的人數跟蔡英文總統時期哪一個時期比較多"},{"start":140.783,"end":150.671,"text":"上次我問過你在旁邊嘛蔡英文比較多嘛對不對然後院長還不相信我的數字要回去查那請問回去查的結果是誰比較多"},{"start":154.949,"end":177.388,"text":"因為這個其實是一般來講食中就食物中毒的案件的話我知道啦 院長當場就回答食品中毒不是食安問題嘛你認同這個觀點嗎那很好你又更正院長沒關係我就跟你講至少食品安全的部分嘛政府做得比你好以數字來看啊然後你在食安報告當中一直強調你們檢驗很多嘛對不對"},{"start":179.815,"end":204.765,"text":"是吧 因為檢驗數非常積極 我認同這個檢驗積極的代表對食安的重視嘛 對不對那你也知道 我也問了院長一句話請問馬政府檢驗食品安全的檢驗數高還是蔡英文政府這要看檢驗多少不用看啦 你看中華民國統計資訊網就知道啦平均每年馬政府是72萬件 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