{"id":149292,"url":"https://ivod.ly.gov.tw/Play/Clip/1M/149292","video_url":"https://ivod-lyvod.cdn.hinet.net/vod_1/_definst_/mp4:1MClips/ad9f873b941d2ddd10a81cd3eaf20dd64df0e2384efaf28bf8ba9b0039caa7a61725417af849b0525ea18f28b6918d91.mp4/playlist.m3u8","委員名稱":"黃捷","委員發言時間":"12:22:59 - 12:36:48","影片長度":"00:13:49","會議時間":"2024-03-04T09:00:00+08:00","會議名稱":"立法院第11屆第1會期內政委員會第2次全體委員會議（事由：邀請海洋委員會主任委員、大陸委員會主任委員、國防部及海軍司令部參謀長就「金門撞船案:翻船執法過程及後續處理」進行專題報告，並備質詢。）","meet":{"tmpMeeting":null,"title":"第11屆第1會期內政委員會第2次全體委員會議","term":11,"type":"委員會","sessionPeriod":1,"sessionTimes":2,"committees":[15],"id":"委員會-11-1-15-2"},"date":"2024-03-04","duration":829,"end_time":"2024-03-04T12:36:48+08:00","start_time":"2024-03-04T12:22:59+08:00","features":["ai-transcript","gazette"],"type":"Clip","gazette":{"lineno":1174,"blocks":[["黃委員捷：（12時22分）好，謝謝主席。在此之前我要先表達一下，我非常支持管主委對名稱的更正，因為我也認為在真相還沒有釐清之前，不應該違背事實使用「撞船」這個名詞，所以我也希望接下來在司法調查結果還沒有出來之前，大家都應該尊重和用中性的字眼來訂定。","其實剛剛前面在程序發言時，有非常多的委員都提到過去沒有先例，但其實在立法院裡面這個先例不只有，而且非常多，只是以往都是互相尊重，立法部門和行政部門可以各自使用自己認為較偏中立、且符合自己立場的報告名稱，其實這個例子非常多，甚至也有國民黨的立委在國民黨執政時對他們的部長使用不同的名詞，所以我想這個應該是無庸置疑的，為什麼我那麼堅持這件事情呢？因為我認為維護自己的主權和治權應該是退無可退的，萬一這件事情我們在名詞上退讓了，是不是會造成接下來非常嚴重的影響？不管是接下來的談判結果，甚至無法釐清彼此的肇事責任，一旦此門一開，海巡署是不是就沒有辦法可以好好的執法？難道他們在執法的時候，要針對這些非法入侵、出海的漁船喊「歡迎光臨」嗎？所以我覺得這件事情必須要有一個嚴正的重申，並且應該要支持這樣的立場。","好，首先請管主委。"],["主席：有請管主任委員。"],["黃委員捷：好，謝謝主委。我想要問一下2月14日金門海域發生的事情，我想檢討是必要的，因為沒有人希望看到這樣不幸的事件發生，但是臺灣是法治的國家，我們做所有的事情都應該要執法有據，所以我想問一下，其實海巡署在執法基礎上不只行之有年，而且也白紙黑字寫得非常明確，其實兩岸人民關係條例第二十九條、第三十二條、第四十二條都有寫到「大陸船舶不得進入臺灣限制及禁止水域，如果未經許可進入，主管機關得逕行驅離或扣留其船舶」，過去兩岸是不是都在這樣的基礎和默契上執法？"],["管主任委員碧玲：報告委員，是，依照兩岸人民關係條例這2條和施行細則第四十二條的規定，這個依法有據，三無船舶我們都是依照登檢的程序和扣留的程序來處理。"],["黃委員捷：好，為什麼我會這樣說？因為我認為，這件事情還是要回到事實的基礎來討論，就是為什麼當初這件事情會發生？因為我們是在執法，我們是依照過去的慣例和法律來行使我們的職權。"],["管主任委員碧玲：對不起！其實中國的法律比我們更嚴格，中國抓到三無船舶一定是扣留，扣留後要拍賣的時候，他們是把拆解綁在拍賣中，你買去後一定要拆解，並不是買了之後還可以換，這個政策中國從1994年一路下來都是這樣。"],["黃委員捷：沒有錯。"],["管主任委員碧玲：他們對於三無船舶是一經查獲一律沒收，而且罰款是船價的2倍，而且要求最後一定要拆解，這個比我們更嚴格。"],["黃委員捷：所以中方在執法的過程中，他們不只是拆解、沒入，他們甚至是用更嚴格的方式在進行取締，所以我不太理解的是，在我們政府非常積極查緝的時候，我們用非常克制、理性的方式依照以往的方式在處理時，但卻還是有人要怪罪海巡署執法過當，請問這個有執法過當嗎？"],["管主任委員碧玲：這一次所有的跡證都顯示我們的同仁並沒有執法過當，但是我一開始就覺得這件事情還是要不偏不倚、大公無私的來處理，目前我們自己知道我們並沒有執法過當，但是我們為了以昭公信，還是讓檢察官來還原真相。"],["黃委員捷：沒有錯。"],["管主任委員碧玲：這整個過程剛剛副主委已經把事實說得很清楚，我特別跟委員報告，這十幾天當中，我們沒有把這些案情說出來，是因為兩岸在談判桌上正在溝通，把案情說出來的時候責任很明顯會歸於一方，我們跟家屬在談人道的撫慰，可是談案情的話會說責任在對方，所以我們真的是非常非常的忍受所有社會給的壓力，今天到國會來了，真的是不得已，我們必須要把這些案情都揭露出來。"],["黃委員捷：我理解主委其實是非常善意且也很有誠意的，想要用最妥善然後釋出最大的善意來處理這件事情，但我還是要回到最源頭，因為大家都知道這艘船就是一艘三無船：沒有船名、沒有船舶證書也沒有船籍港的登記，過去我們對於三無船其實都是非常嚴加查緝的，因為三無船會造成我們合法船舶權益的損害，為保障我們合法漁民的權益，所以必須要支持合法、打擊非法，這是一貫的立場。對嗎？"],["管主任委員碧玲：是，尤其是對海上安全的影響也是很有疑慮的，無論如何，我們是於法有據的在依法行政，執行這一次的取締，是一定要有這樣一個執法的過程。"],["黃委員捷：所以在這件事情上面，其實以往都是兩岸在共同打擊犯罪，甚至是有一起針對這些非法的船隻做共同的處理，對嗎？"],["管主任委員碧玲：在兩岸協談執法的過程當中，我想我們海巡署經常也會收到對方表示希望我們共同對三無船加強取締的要求，我想這個在兩岸其實是我們的共識。"],["黃委員捷：沒有錯！我想針對這件事情其實以往都是這樣處理的，但是我想要問的是這個事件本身，請問這4位船員（其中包括1位船長）有沒有中國核發的漁民證書？"],["管主任委員碧玲：是沒有的。"],["黃委員捷：他們沒有漁民證書？"],["管主任委員碧玲：據我們目前所知是沒有的。"],["黃委員捷：請問這艘船有撈捕許可證跟漁業的船舶檢驗書嗎？"],["管主任委員碧玲：我想以這樣的船隻，我們目前所知道的資訊是沒有的，但是是不是容許這個部分，我們的艦隊分署或偵防分署在這個部分可能會掌握比較更精確的資訊。"],["黃委員捷：我們就請分署長說明。"],["主席：有請分署長。謝謝！"],["廖分署長德成：委員好！關於這4名船員身分的部分，我們經過查證，包括生還的這兩名船員，的確是沒有所謂的證照，包括船舶也是一樣沒有所謂的船舶證書。"],["黃委員捷：所以他們不僅是三無船，而且可以說是無照駕駛，對嗎？所以現在很明顯他們已經是在非法的處境之上，而且是無照駕駛。那麼接下來要講的就是中國當時其實有宣稱說這4名船員是有停船受檢的，請問你們的檢查結果是這樣子嗎？"],["管主任委員碧玲：這個絕對不是事實，沒有。是在高速行駛的過程之中，剛剛署長也有講，因為從吊起來的船舶的最後狀態看到的是油門是全車。"],["黃委員捷：其實我剛剛在台下有聽到署長有把最後這個船隻的狀態講得更明確，它不止是全車前進，而且是右滿舵急轉彎高速前進的狀態，然後在這樣的狀態下再加上這艘船吃水很淺，船外又掛了兩個機組，是這樣子嗎？在一個非常、已經是極可能造成危險的狀態下，它高速前進了，那這是不是也可能是造成這一次翻覆事件的原因？這個當然不得而知，要由檢調來證實。"],["管主任委員碧玲：因為它是平底，所以當它以這樣的配重、比重的狀況，然後在右滿舵且高速開全車的狀況，我們艦隊分署長曾經做的報告是即使沒有碰撞都是非常容易自行翻覆的。但是案情是什麼，我們還是希望由檢調來釐清。"],["黃委員捷：好，我們以上是提供釐清一些事實，讓檢調做最後的判斷，到底肇事責任在誰，我相信肇事責任在誰已經很明確了。繼續我想要問的是其實今天有聽到談判到現在，據說中方的談判代表有要求我方的海巡人員到中國問訊，我想問是不是有這件事情？"],["管主任委員碧玲：整個談判上面的誠信跟氛圍還有整個過程，是不是請許副署長來說明？"],["黃委員捷：好。"],["許副署長靜芝：委員好！說是「談判」我想可能要使用「溝通」這個名詞來界定這樣的一個對話，在溝通的過程當中，對方是曾經有過這樣子的說明，但是經過這幾天的溝通以後，已經逐步的化解了。"],["黃委員捷：好，如果真有此事，代表我方的主權會受到極大的傷害和影響，希望我們要堅守我們的立場，在溝通的過程當中也必須要堅守我們執法的立場。","最後我想要講一下，就是在這段期間有非常多人都要求我們主委以及海巡署要道歉，對這件事情，我必須要求我們主委及海巡署絕對不能道歉，我們不僅是無從道歉，也沒有道理要道歉，希望在司法調查以及責任釐清出來之前，我們都不應該並且沒有任何依據要來道歉。好不好？"],["管主任委員碧玲：對兩個人命的過亡，我們是高度的遺憾跟哀悼，也有很深的不捨之情，但是因為事涉責任尚未釐清，所以我們很誠懇的安排了兩次的道歉，一次是對於說沒有這樣一個蒐證的錄影，導致家屬十分的煎熬，因為他們沒有辦法更迅速的來瞭解案情，所以對於沒有蒐證錄影這部分，我們先由許副署長在金門召開的記者會上公開道歉，我也請我們的署長親自去上香以及撫慰家屬，上香時也有對亡者表達過歉意。"],["黃委員捷：我希望監控的部分、監視器的部分接下來當然一定要處理，但一定要保全我們自己，在人力的部分若有不足，是不是接下來也可以試著改善，以兩艘為主來編制，確保現場的人力都是OK的，然後才不會發生這種沒有辦法有人去錄影的狀態。","最後就是看到中國現在已經派出非常大噸位的執法船，兩千噸，請問我們目前執法船的噸位是不是無法跟他們對比？是不是我們未來也可以考慮再加強，派更大噸位的執法船常駐？"],["管主任委員碧玲：我想對這個部分我們有一定的SOP，也對局勢有一定的研判，是不是容我們從海巡的專業以及整個海域的安全還有對於兩岸關係的考量，在這些考量之下，容許我們海巡同仁、海巡署用最專業的SOP來應處這些事。"],["黃委員捷：好，謝謝主委！我覺得該改善的就一定要改善，但是必須要堅守三大原則，就是我們的漁權、治權跟主權一定都要堅守住。好嗎？"],["管主任委員碧玲：是，我們嚴正執法的立場絕對不會改變，即使是目前，我們仍然是依照我們應該要有的執法一直都在進行之中，保護漁民也是我們的天職，打擊犯罪我們都會非常非常努力。"],["主席：非常謝謝管主委的回應，也謝謝黃捷委員的質詢。","繼續請李柏毅委員質詢。在此宣告一下，等到召委即本席質詢結束後讓大家休息20分鐘用餐，好不好？謝謝！"]],"agenda":{"page_end":328,"meet_id":"委員會-11-1-15-2","speakers":["高金素梅","傅崐萁","陳雪生","王美惠","洪孟楷","蘇巧慧","李柏毅","麥玉珍","徐欣瑩","丁學忠","許宇甄","張智倫","黃建賓","牛煦庭","張宏陸","黃捷","吳琪銘","沈伯洋","羅智強","賴士葆","吳沛憶","李坤城","鄭天財Sra Kacaw","陳冠廷","楊瓊瓔","王鴻薇","張啓楷"],"page_start":227,"meetingDate":["2024-03-04"],"gazette_id":"1130501","agenda_lcidc_ids":["1130501_00010"],"meet_name":"立法院第11屆第1會期內政委員會第2次全體委員會議紀錄","content":"邀請海洋委員會主任委員、大陸委員會主任委員、國防部及海軍司令部參謀長就「金門撞船案：\n翻船執法過程及後續處理」進行專題報告，並備質詢","agenda_id":"1130501_00018"}},"transcript":{"id":"149292","pyannote":{"name":"ronny","tool":"pyannote","data":{"url":"https://ivod.ly.gov.tw/Play/Clip/1M/149292","tool":"pyannote","id":"149292-pyannote"},"job_id":"4rdtP8uOIEGnXMJJ","queued_at":"2024-06-02 11:55:15","status":"done","log":[{"time":"2024-06-02 11:55:15","msg":"downloading https://ivod.ly.gov.tw/Play/Clip/1M/149292"},{"time":"2024-06-02 11:55:16","msg":"downloading https://ivod-lyvod.cdn.hinet.net/vod_1/_definst_/mp4:1MClips/ad9f873b941d2ddd10a81cd3eaf20dd64df0e2384efaf28b26e8f58871d24fedda277b577d0128215ea18f28b6918d91.mp4/playlist.m3u8"},{"time":"2024-06-02 11:55:39","msg":"converting mp4 to wav"},{"time":"2024-06-02 11:55:41","msg":"running 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\"我想問一下,因為其實我們海巡署在這個執法的基礎上不只行之有年而且也寫的白紙黑字非常明確就是兩岸條例裡面29條、32條、42條其實都有寫到說這個中國的漁船不得進入台灣限制及禁止的水域\", \"words\": [{\"word\": \"我\", \"start\": 131.463, \"end\": 131.563, \"score\": 0.79}, {\"word\": \"想\", \"start\": 131.563, \"end\": 131.924, \"score\": 0.84}, {\"word\": \"問\"}, {\"word\": \"一\", \"start\": 131.924, \"end\": 132.104, \"score\": 0.882}, {\"word\": \"下\", \"start\": 132.104, \"end\": 132.344, \"score\": 0.985}, {\"word\": \",\"}, {\"word\": \"因\", \"start\": 132.344, \"end\": 132.604, \"score\": 0.881}, {\"word\": \"為\"}, {\"word\": \"其\", \"start\": 132.604, \"end\": 132.884, \"score\": 0.861}, {\"word\": \"實\"}, {\"word\": \"我\", \"start\": 132.884, \"end\": 133.104, \"score\": 0.716}, {\"word\": \"們\"}, {\"word\": \"海\", \"start\": 133.104, \"end\": 133.285, \"score\": 0.981}, {\"word\": \"巡\", \"start\": 133.285, \"end\": 133.485, \"score\": 0.948}, {\"word\": \"署\", \"start\": 133.485, \"end\": 133.705, \"score\": 0.912}, {\"word\": \"在\", \"start\": 133.705, \"end\": 134.406, \"score\": 0.86}, {\"word\": \"這\"}, {\"word\": \"個\"}, {\"word\": \"執\"}, {\"word\": \"法\", \"start\": 134.406, \"end\": 134.566, \"score\": 0.906}, {\"word\": \"的\", \"start\": 134.566, \"end\": 134.666, \"score\": 0.986}, {\"word\": \"基\", \"start\": 134.666, \"end\": 135.026, \"score\": 0.844}, {\"word\": \"礎\"}, {\"word\": \"上\", \"start\": 135.026, \"end\": 135.226, \"score\": 0.941}, {\"word\": \"不\", \"start\": 135.226, \"end\": 135.366, \"score\": 0.97}, {\"word\": \"只\", \"start\": 135.366, \"end\": 135.526, \"score\": 0.751}, {\"word\": \"行\", \"start\": 135.526, \"end\": 135.727, \"score\": 0.995}, {\"word\": \"之\", \"start\": 135.727, \"end\": 135.887, \"score\": 0.871}, {\"word\": \"有\", \"start\": 135.887, \"end\": 136.047, \"score\": 0.965}, {\"word\": \"年\", \"start\": 136.047, \"end\": 136.227, \"score\": 0.824}, {\"word\": \"而\", \"start\": 136.227, \"end\": 136.347, \"score\": 0.916}, {\"word\": \"且\", \"start\": 136.347, \"end\": 136.507, \"score\": 0.928}, {\"word\": \"也\", \"start\": 136.507, \"end\": 136.947, \"score\": 0.916}, {\"word\": \"寫\"}, {\"word\": \"的\", \"start\": 136.947, \"end\": 137.108, \"score\": 0.975}, {\"word\": \"白\", \"start\": 137.108, \"end\": 137.348, \"score\": 0.884}, {\"word\": \"紙\", \"start\": 137.348, \"end\": 137.508, \"score\": 0.834}, {\"word\": \"黑\", \"start\": 137.508, \"end\": 137.708, \"score\": 0.99}, {\"word\": \"字\", \"start\": 137.708, \"end\": 137.868, \"score\": 0.868}, {\"word\": \"非\", \"start\": 137.868, \"end\": 138.008, \"score\": 0.902}, {\"word\": \"常\", \"start\": 138.008, \"end\": 138.769, \"score\": 0.902}, {\"word\": \"明\", \"start\": 138.769, \"end\": 139.53, \"score\": 0.841}, {\"word\": \"確\"}, {\"word\": \"就\", \"start\": 139.53, \"end\": 139.63, \"score\": 0.696}, {\"word\": \"是\", \"start\": 139.63, \"end\": 139.91, \"score\": 0.907}, {\"word\": \"兩\"}, {\"word\": \"岸\", \"start\": 139.91, \"end\": 140.25, \"score\": 0.845}, {\"word\": \"條\"}, {\"word\": \"例\", \"start\": 140.25, \"end\": 140.51, \"score\": 0.826}, {\"word\": \"裡\"}, {\"word\": \"面\", \"start\": 140.51, \"end\": 143.052, \"score\": 0.804}, {\"word\": \"2\"}, {\"word\": \"9\"}, {\"word\": \"條\"}, {\"word\": \"、\"}, {\"word\": \"3\"}, {\"word\": \"2\"}, {\"word\": \"條\"}, {\"word\": \"、\"}, {\"word\": \"4\"}, {\"word\": \"2\"}, {\"word\": \"條\"}, {\"word\": \"其\", \"start\": 143.052, \"end\": 143.252, \"score\": 0.9}, {\"word\": \"實\"}, {\"word\": \"都\", \"start\": 143.252, \"end\": 143.473, \"score\": 0.847}, {\"word\": \"有\", \"start\": 143.473, \"end\": 143.973, \"score\": 0.945}, {\"word\": \"寫\"}, {\"word\": \"到\", \"start\": 143.973, \"end\": 145.514, \"score\": 0.899}, {\"word\": \"說\"}, {\"word\": \"這\"}, {\"word\": \"個\"}, {\"word\": \"中\", \"start\": 145.514, \"end\": 145.794, \"score\": 0.779}, {\"word\": \"國\"}, {\"word\": \"的\", \"start\": 145.794, \"end\": 146.055, \"score\": 0.692}, {\"word\": \"漁\"}, {\"word\": \"船\", \"start\": 146.055, \"end\": 146.335, \"score\": 0.878}, {\"word\": \"不\", \"start\": 146.335, \"end\": 146.535, \"score\": 0.988}, {\"word\": \"得\", \"start\": 146.535, \"end\": 146.975, \"score\": 0.891}, {\"word\": \"進\"}, {\"word\": \"入\", \"start\": 146.975, \"end\": 147.195, \"score\": 0.887}, {\"word\": \"台\", \"start\": 147.195, \"end\": 147.676, \"score\": 0.887}, {\"word\": \"灣\"}, {\"word\": \"限\", \"start\": 147.676, \"end\": 147.956, \"score\": 0.909}, {\"word\": \"制\", \"start\": 147.956, \"end\": 148.256, \"score\": 0.994}, {\"word\": \"及\", \"start\": 148.256, \"end\": 148.937, \"score\": 0.968}, {\"word\": \"禁\", \"start\": 148.937, \"end\": 149.157, \"score\": 0.924}, {\"word\": \"止\", \"start\": 149.157, \"end\": 149.297, \"score\": 0.954}, {\"word\": \"的\", \"start\": 149.297, \"end\": 149.597, \"score\": 0.994}, {\"word\": \"水\", \"start\": 149.597, \"end\": 149.798, \"score\": 0.849}, {\"word\": \"域\", \"start\": 149.798, \"end\": 149.818, \"score\": 0.373}]}, {\"start\": 150.578, \"end\": 179.147, \"text\": \"那如果未經許可進入了我們海巡署就必須要依法來驅離甚至扣留及傳播我們是不是過去兩岸都是在這樣的基礎跟默契上來執法的報告委員是兩岸人民關係條例這兩條還有施行細則的第42條照規定這個是依法有據這種三無的傳播我們就是扣留的程序登檢的程序扣留的程序來處理\", \"words\": [{\"word\": \"那\", \"start\": 150.578, \"end\": 150.798, \"score\": 0.908}, {\"word\": \"如\", \"start\": 150.798, \"end\": 151.018, \"score\": 0.889}, {\"word\": \"果\", \"start\": 151.018, \"end\": 151.478, \"score\": 0.944}, {\"word\": \"未\", \"start\": 151.478, \"end\": 151.838, \"score\": 0.907}, {\"word\": \"經\"}, {\"word\": \"許\", \"start\": 151.838, \"end\": 151.998, \"score\": 0.857}, {\"word\": \"可\", \"start\": 151.998, \"end\": 152.419, \"score\": 0.905}, {\"word\": \"進\"}, {\"word\": \"入\", \"start\": 152.419, \"end\": 152.639, \"score\": 0.904}, {\"word\": \"了\", \"start\": 152.639, \"end\": 153.139, \"score\": 0.977}, {\"word\": \"我\", \"start\": 153.139, \"end\": 153.339, \"score\": 0.899}, {\"word\": \"們\"}, {\"word\": \"海\", \"start\": 153.339, \"end\": 153.519, \"score\": 0.912}, {\"word\": \"巡\", \"start\": 153.519, \"end\": 153.719, \"score\": 0.901}, {\"word\": \"署\", \"start\": 153.719, \"end\": 153.979, \"score\": 0.924}, {\"word\": \"就\", \"start\": 153.979, \"end\": 154.179, \"score\": 0.896}, {\"word\": \"必\", \"start\": 154.179, \"end\": 154.619, \"score\": 0.952}, {\"word\": \"須\"}, {\"word\": \"要\", \"start\": 154.619, \"end\": 155.64, \"score\": 0.92}, {\"word\": \"依\", \"start\": 155.64, \"end\": 155.84, \"score\": 0.915}, {\"word\": \"法\", \"start\": 155.84, \"end\": 156.76, \"score\": 0.923}, {\"word\": \"來\"}, {\"word\": \"驅\"}, {\"word\": \"離\"}, {\"word\": \"甚\", \"start\": 156.76, \"end\": 156.96, \"score\": 0.868}, {\"word\": \"至\", \"start\": 156.96, \"end\": 157.16, \"score\": 0.922}, {\"word\": \"扣\", \"start\": 157.16, \"end\": 157.42, \"score\": 0.921}, {\"word\": \"留\", \"start\": 157.42, \"end\": 157.7, \"score\": 0.967}, {\"word\": \"及\", \"start\": 157.7, \"end\": 158.22, \"score\": 0.948}, {\"word\": \"傳\"}, {\"word\": \"播\", \"start\": 158.22, \"end\": 158.681, \"score\": 0.956}, {\"word\": \"我\", \"start\": 158.681, \"end\": 158.921, \"score\": 0.898}, {\"word\": \"們\"}, {\"word\": \"是\", \"start\": 158.921, \"end\": 159.021, \"score\": 0.8}, {\"word\": \"不\", \"start\": 159.021, \"end\": 159.121, \"score\": 0.797}, {\"word\": \"是\", \"start\": 159.121, \"end\": 159.521, \"score\": 0.931}, {\"word\": \"過\"}, {\"word\": \"去\", \"start\": 159.521, \"end\": 159.861, \"score\": 0.934}, {\"word\": \"兩\"}, {\"word\": \"岸\", \"start\": 159.861, \"end\": 160.021, \"score\": 0.966}, {\"word\": \"都\", \"start\": 160.021, \"end\": 160.161, \"score\": 0.979}, {\"word\": \"是\", \"start\": 160.161, \"end\": 160.281, \"score\": 0.989}, {\"word\": \"在\", \"start\": 160.281, \"end\": 160.681, \"score\": 0.899}, {\"word\": \"這\"}, {\"word\": \"樣\"}, {\"word\": \"的\", \"start\": 160.681, \"end\": 160.841, \"score\": 0.999}, {\"word\": \"基\", \"start\": 160.841, \"end\": 161.201, \"score\": 0.935}, {\"word\": \"礎\"}, {\"word\": \"跟\", \"start\": 161.201, 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{\"word\": \"條\"}, {\"word\": \"例\", \"start\": 165.163, \"end\": 166.183, \"score\": 0.901}, {\"word\": \"這\"}, {\"word\": \"兩\"}, {\"word\": \"條\"}, {\"word\": \"還\"}, {\"word\": \"有\", \"start\": 166.183, \"end\": 166.323, \"score\": 0.999}, {\"word\": \"施\", \"start\": 166.323, \"end\": 166.503, \"score\": 0.905}, {\"word\": \"行\", \"start\": 166.503, \"end\": 167.063, \"score\": 0.897}, {\"word\": \"細\"}, {\"word\": \"則\"}, {\"word\": \"的\", \"start\": 167.063, \"end\": 167.223, \"score\": 0.99}, {\"word\": \"第\", \"start\": 167.223, \"end\": 169.124, \"score\": 0.946}, {\"word\": \"4\"}, {\"word\": \"2\"}, {\"word\": \"條\"}, {\"word\": \"照\", \"start\": 169.124, \"end\": 170.004, \"score\": 0.952}, {\"word\": \"規\"}, {\"word\": \"定\", \"start\": 170.004, \"end\": 170.624, \"score\": 0.935}, {\"word\": \"這\"}, {\"word\": \"個\"}, {\"word\": \"是\", \"start\": 170.624, \"end\": 170.784, \"score\": 0.888}, {\"word\": \"依\", \"start\": 170.784, \"end\": 170.964, \"score\": 0.906}, {\"word\": \"法\", \"start\": 170.964, \"end\": 171.164, \"score\": 0.918}, {\"word\": \"有\", \"start\": 171.164, \"end\": 173.205, \"score\": 0.968}, {\"word\": \"據\"}, {\"word\": \"這\"}, {\"word\": \"種\"}, {\"word\": \"三\", \"start\": 173.205, \"end\": 173.445, \"score\": 1.0}, {\"word\": \"無\", \"start\": 173.445, \"end\": 173.605, \"score\": 0.864}, {\"word\": \"的\", \"start\": 173.605, \"end\": 174.045, \"score\": 0.954}, {\"word\": \"傳\"}, {\"word\": \"播\", \"start\": 174.045, \"end\": 174.625, \"score\": 0.971}, {\"word\": \"我\", \"start\": 174.625, \"end\": 174.846, \"score\": 0.861}, {\"word\": \"們\"}, {\"word\": \"就\", \"start\": 174.846, \"end\": 175.086, \"score\": 1.0}, {\"word\": \"是\", \"start\": 175.086, \"end\": 176.006, \"score\": 0.972}, {\"word\": \"扣\", \"start\": 176.006, \"end\": 176.226, \"score\": 0.946}, {\"word\": \"留\", \"start\": 176.226, \"end\": 176.626, \"score\": 0.969}, {\"word\": \"的\", \"start\": 176.626, \"end\": 176.766, \"score\": 0.979}, {\"word\": \"程\", \"start\": 176.766, \"end\": 177.066, \"score\": 0.999}, {\"word\": \"序\", \"start\": 177.066, \"end\": 177.386, \"score\": 0.999}, {\"word\": \"登\", \"start\": 177.386, \"end\": 177.766, \"score\": 0.941}, {\"word\": \"檢\"}, {\"word\": \"的\", \"start\": 177.766, \"end\": 177.866, \"score\": 0.996}, {\"word\": \"程\", \"start\": 177.866, \"end\": 178.087, \"score\": 0.898}, {\"word\": \"序\", \"start\": 178.087, \"end\": 178.307, \"score\": 0.993}, {\"word\": \"扣\", \"start\": 178.307, \"end\": 178.467, \"score\": 0.946}, {\"word\": \"留\", \"start\": 178.467, \"end\": 178.627, \"score\": 0.98}, {\"word\": \"的\", \"start\": 178.627, \"end\": 178.747, \"score\": 0.998}, {\"word\": \"程\", \"start\": 178.747, \"end\": 179.007, \"score\": 0.997}, {\"word\": \"序\", \"start\": 179.007, \"end\": 179.127, \"score\": 0.993}, {\"word\": \"來\"}, {\"word\": \"處\"}, {\"word\": \"理\", \"start\": 179.127, \"end\": 179.147, \"score\": 0.0}]}, {\"start\": 180.027, \"end\": 197.224, \"text\": \"為什麼我會這樣說?因為我認為這件事情還是要回到事實的基礎來討論就當初為什麼這個事件會這樣發生是因為我們是在執法我們依照過去以往的慣例並且依據這個過去我們依據的這個法律來行使我們的職權\", \"words\": [{\"word\": \"為\"}, {\"word\": \"什\", \"start\": 180.027, \"end\": 180.147, \"score\": 0.923}, {\"word\": \"麼\"}, {\"word\": \"我\", \"start\": 180.147, \"end\": 180.868, \"score\": 0.837}, {\"word\": \"會\"}, {\"word\": \"這\"}, {\"word\": \"樣\"}, {\"word\": \"說\"}, {\"word\": \"?\"}, {\"word\": \"因\", \"start\": 180.868, \"end\": 181.349, \"score\": 0.889}, {\"word\": \"為\"}, {\"word\": \"我\", \"start\": 181.349, \"end\": 182.069, \"score\": 0.934}, {\"word\": \"認\"}, {\"word\": \"為\"}, {\"word\": \"這\"}, {\"word\": \"件\", \"start\": 182.069, \"end\": 182.209, \"score\": 0.845}, {\"word\": \"事\", \"start\": 182.209, \"end\": 182.35, \"score\": 0.822}, {\"word\": \"情\", \"start\": 182.35, \"end\": 182.75, \"score\": 0.85}, {\"word\": \"還\"}, {\"word\": \"是\", \"start\": 182.75, \"end\": 182.87, \"score\": 0.985}, {\"word\": \"要\", \"start\": 182.87, \"end\": 183.05, 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{\"word\": \"樣\"}, {\"word\": \"發\"}, {\"word\": \"生\", \"start\": 187.815, \"end\": 188.075, \"score\": 0.936}, {\"word\": \"是\", \"start\": 188.075, \"end\": 188.295, \"score\": 0.888}, {\"word\": \"因\", \"start\": 188.295, \"end\": 189.256, \"score\": 0.866}, {\"word\": \"為\"}, {\"word\": \"我\", \"start\": 189.256, \"end\": 189.757, \"score\": 0.909}, {\"word\": \"們\"}, {\"word\": \"是\", \"start\": 189.757, \"end\": 189.917, \"score\": 0.988}, {\"word\": \"在\", \"start\": 189.917, \"end\": 190.437, \"score\": 0.924}, {\"word\": \"執\"}, {\"word\": \"法\", \"start\": 190.437, \"end\": 190.678, \"score\": 0.77}, {\"word\": \"我\", \"start\": 190.678, \"end\": 191.018, \"score\": 0.705}, {\"word\": \"們\"}, {\"word\": \"依\", \"start\": 191.018, \"end\": 191.198, \"score\": 0.904}, {\"word\": \"照\", \"start\": 191.198, \"end\": 191.679, \"score\": 0.863}, {\"word\": \"過\"}, {\"word\": \"去\", \"start\": 191.679, \"end\": 191.819, \"score\": 0.993}, {\"word\": \"以\", \"start\": 191.819, 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599.586, \"score\": 0.744}, {\"word\": \"情\", \"start\": 599.586, \"end\": 599.606, \"score\": 0.932}]}, {\"start\": 602.526, \"end\": 609.189, \"text\": \"我想整個談判上面的誠信跟氛圍還有整個過程是不是我們請許副署長來說好委員好那在談判的我想用談判可能溝通我們是不是使用溝通這一個名詞來界定這樣的一個對話那在談溝通的過程當中是曾經有過這樣子的\", \"words\": [{\"word\": \"我\", \"start\": 602.526, \"end\": 602.626, \"score\": 0.876}, {\"word\": \"想\", \"start\": 602.626, \"end\": 602.966, \"score\": 0.974}, {\"word\": \"整\", \"start\": 602.966, \"end\": 603.406, \"score\": 0.908}, {\"word\": \"個\"}, {\"word\": \"談\"}, {\"word\": \"判\", \"start\": 603.406, \"end\": 603.646, \"score\": 0.99}, {\"word\": \"上\", \"start\": 603.646, \"end\": 603.806, \"score\": 0.994}, {\"word\": \"面\", \"start\": 603.806, \"end\": 603.966, \"score\": 1.0}, {\"word\": \"的\", \"start\": 603.966, \"end\": 604.307, \"score\": 0.941}, {\"word\": \"誠\"}, {\"word\": \"信\", \"start\": 604.307, \"end\": 604.487, \"score\": 0.911}, {\"word\": \"跟\", \"start\": 604.487, \"end\": 604.727, \"score\": 0.932}, 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00:00:16,881\n好謝謝謝謝主席那我先開始在在此之前我要先表達一下我非常支持管主委對於這個名稱的更正因為我也認為在真相還沒有釐清之前不應該違背事實使用撞船這個名詞\n\n2\n00:00:17,782 --> 00:00:45,679\n所以我也希望接下來大家在司法的調查結果還沒有出來之前應該要尊重更用中性的字眼來定定那其實剛剛前面在程序發言的時候有非常多的委員都提到說過去沒有先例但其實在立法院裡面這個先例不只有而且非常多那其實以往都是互相尊重立法部門跟行政部門可以各自使用自己而認為的比較偏離中性以及符合自己立場的\n\n3\n00:00:46,920 --> 00:00:46,940\n黃捷議員\n\n4\n00:01:05,390 --> 00:01:33,687\n我們維護自己的主權以及維護自己的治權應該是退無可退的萬一這件事情我們在這個名詞上面退了是不是會造成接下來非常嚴重的影響不管是說接下來談判的結果以及甚至到時候的造勢的責任彼此的釐清沒有辦法進行下去甚至是一旦此門一開是不是變成說我們海巡署沒有辦法再好好的執法在執法的時候難道針對這些非法\n\n5\n00:01:34,107 --> 00:01:34,928\n首先我們請管主委\n\n6\n00:01:53,851 --> 00:02:10,202\n好謝謝主委我想要問一下就是關於2月14號這個金門海域發生的事情我想檢討是必要的因為沒有人希望看到這樣不幸的事件發生但是因為台灣是一個法治國家我們所做所有的事情都應該要執法有據\n\n7\n00:02:11,463 --> 00:02:29,818\n我想問一下,因為其實我們海巡署在這個執法的基礎上不只行之有年而且也寫的白紙黑字非常明確就是兩岸條例裡面29條、32條、42條其實都有寫到說這個中國的漁船不得進入台灣限制及禁止的水域\n\n8\n00:02:30,578 --> 00:02:59,147\n那如果未經許可進入了我們海巡署就必須要依法來驅離甚至扣留及傳播我們是不是過去兩岸都是在這樣的基礎跟默契上來執法的報告委員是兩岸人民關係條例這兩條還有施行細則的第42條照規定這個是依法有據這種三無的傳播我們就是扣留的程序登檢的程序扣留的程序來處理\n\n9\n00:03:00,027 --> 00:03:17,224\n為什麼我會這樣說?因為我認為這件事情還是要回到事實的基礎來討論就當初為什麼這個事件會這樣發生是因為我們是在執法我們依照過去以往的慣例並且依據這個過去我們依據的這個法律來行使我們的職權\n\n10\n00:03:19,406 --> 00:03:36,310\n中國的法律比我們更嚴格。中國對於三輪船這樣的傳播,如果被扣留了以後,他們抓到是一定扣留。扣留的時候,他們在拍賣的時候是把拆解包裝綁在這個拍賣中,你買去的一定要拆解。\n\n11\n00:03:36,710 --> 00:03:36,730\n韓國瑜\n\n12\n00:03:54,838 --> 00:04:20,396\n所以其實中方在執法的過程當中他們不只是拆解末日乳甚至是他們用更嚴格的方式在進行取締嘛所以我不太理解的是在我們的政府非常積極的查緝的時候我們用非常克制的方式用非常理性的方式在照以往的慣例在處理但是還是有人要怪罪我們的海巡署說我們執法過當\n\n13\n00:04:22,317 --> 00:04:49,015\n請問有執法過當嗎?這一次我們所有的機證顯示我們的同源並沒有執法過當但是我一開始就覺得這個事情一定我們還是不偏不倚大功無失目前我們自己知道整個沒有執法過當的過程但是我們還是以招公信然後讓這個檢察官來還原真相但是整個的過程剛剛署長把事實說得很清楚我特別跟委員報告\n\n14\n00:04:50,996 --> 00:05:16,966\n這個十幾天當中我們沒有把這些案情說出來因為把這些案情說出來的時候兩岸在談判桌上正在溝通說出來的時候責任很明顯會歸於一方的時候這整個氣氛是我們跟家屬在談人道的撫慰可是我們談案情在說責任在對方所以我們真的是非常非常的忍受所有的社會給的這個壓力\n\n15\n00:05:18,647 --> 00:05:40,948\n那今天到國會來了真的是不得已我們必須要把這些案情都揭露出來我理解我理解主委其實是非常善意而且也很有誠意的想要用最妥善然後釋出最大的善意來處理這件事情但我還是要回到這源頭因為大家都知道這艘船就是一艘三無船沒有船名沒有船舶證書也沒有船級港的登記\n\n16\n00:05:43,530 --> 00:06:00,463\n那過去我們對於三無船其實是都是非常嚴加來查緝的因為三無船會造成我們合法船舶的權益的損害以及要保障我們合法漁民的權益所以必須要支持合法打擊非法這是一貫的立場對嗎?\n\n17\n00:06:01,844 --> 00:06:17,507\n是,尤其是其實對海上的安全的影響也是很有疑慮的那無論如何我們依法有據的在依法行政執行這次的去地是一定要有這樣的一個執法的過程\n\n18\n00:06:17,847 --> 00:06:41,279\n所以在這件事情上面其實以往都是兩岸在共同打擊犯罪甚至是我們有一起來針對這些非法的船隻都有共同的處理對嗎在兩岸協同執法的過程當中我想我們海巡署經常也會收到對方希望說我們共同的對三無船要來加強取締我想這個在兩岸其實是我們的共識\n\n19\n00:06:42,259 --> 00:07:00,968\n沒有錯那我想針對這件事情其實以往都是這樣處理的但是我想要問的是這個事件本身請問這四位船員其中包括一位船長他們有沒有中國合法的漁民證書是沒有的他們沒有漁民證書嗎我們目前所知是沒有的\n\n20\n00:07:01,368 --> 00:07:29,663\n那請問一下這艘船他們是有勞補許可證跟漁業的船舶檢驗書的嗎?我想以這樣的串織我們目前所知道的資訊是沒有但是是不是容許這個部分如果要更精確的話我們艦隊分署或我們的偵防分署可能在這個部分會掌握比較更精確的資訊\n\n21\n00:07:32,551 --> 00:07:34,292\n有關於這四名船員的身份部分,我們經過查證,包括申緩者這兩名的船員講,他們的確是沒有所謂的證照。包括船舶也是一樣,沒有所謂的船舶證書。\n\n22\n00:07:54,548 --> 00:07:55,609\n這絕對不是事實沒有在高速的行駛的過程之中\n\n23\n00:08:24,335 --> 00:08:34,493\n因為從掉起來船舶的最後狀態剛剛署長也有講了最後狀態看到的是油門是全車\n\n24\n00:08:37,614 --> 00:08:53,360\n其實剛剛署長也有講到在台下有聽他有把最後這個船隻的狀態講得更明確他不只是全車前進而且是又滿舵即轉彎高速前進的狀態然後在這樣的狀態下加上這台這艘船它吃水很淺\n\n25\n00:08:54,680 --> 00:08:55,060\n所以當他以這樣的配重的比重的狀況\n\n26\n00:09:18,420 --> 00:09:18,440\n韓國瑜議員\n\n27\n00:09:35,816 --> 00:09:59,606\n好那當然我們以上是提供一些事實的釐清讓檢調做最後的判斷到底造勢責任在誰那我相信造勢責任在誰已經很明確了那我想要問一個其實今天有聽到說談判到現在中方的談判的代表聽據說有要求我方的海巡人員要到中國問訊我想問一下是不是有這件事情\n\n28\n00:10:02,526 --> 00:10:09,189\n我想整個談判上面的誠信跟氛圍還有整個過程是不是我們請許副署長來說好委員好那在談判的我想用談判可能溝通我們是不是使用溝通這一個名詞來界定這樣的一個對話那在談溝通的過程當中是曾經有過這樣子的\n\n29\n00:10:31,517 --> 00:10:38,366\n對方有過這樣子的說明但是經過這幾天的這個溝通以後已經逐步的已經化解了\n\n30\n00:10:39,275 --> 00:11:02,077\n好那如果真有此事代表說我方的主權會有極大的受害影響希望我們要堅守我們的立場那這個在溝通的過程當中也必須要堅守我們執法的立場好那最後我想要講一下就是最後其實在這段期間有非常多人都要求我們主委以及海巡署要道歉\n\n31\n00:11:03,518 --> 00:11:24,071\n這件事情其實我必須要要求我們主委及海巡署絕對不能道歉我們不僅是無從道歉也沒有道理要道歉希望在司法調查以及責任釐清出來之前我們都不應該並且沒有任何執法的依據要來道歉好不好\n\n32\n00:11:25,352 --> 00:11:51,193\n兩個人命的過往我們是高度的遺憾跟哀悼也有很深的不捨之情但是因為事涉責任尚未釐清所以我們很誠懇的安排了兩次的道歉一次是對於說沒有這樣的一個收證的錄影導致於家屬十分的煎熬因為他們沒有辦法更迅速的來了解案情\n\n33\n00:11:51,793 --> 00:11:52,153\n主席主席主席\n\n34\n00:12:11,543 --> 00:12:39,857\n我希望就是當然這個監控的部分監視器的部分接下來一定都要處理最後一定要保存我們自己那也希望說接下來我們在人力的部分如果有不足是不是接下來也可以試著改善是不是以兩艘為主來編制確保說現場的人力都是OK的然後都才不會有這種沒有辦法有人去錄影的狀態那最後就是有沒有看到說中國現在已經派出非常大噸位的執法船了2000噸\n\n35\n00:12:41,778 --> 00:12:53,822\n我們目前的這個噸位是不是跟他們沒有辦法對比是不是我們未來也可以考慮再加強派更大噸位的執法船來常駐呢?我想這個部分我們有一定的SOP那我們也有對局勢的一定的研判我想是不是容我們從海巡的專業\n\n36\n00:13:06,105 --> 00:13:10,127\n謝謝主委我覺得該改善的就一定要改善但是必須要堅守三大原則就是我們的漁權、治權跟主權這一定都要堅守住好嗎\n\n37\n00:13:30,293 --> 00:13:30,433\n黃捷委員\n\n","tsv":"start\tend\ttext\n269\t16881\t好 謝謝謝謝主席那我先開始在在此之前我要先表達一下我非常支持管主委對於這個名稱的更正因為我也認為在真相還沒有釐清之前不應該違背事實使用撞船這個名詞\n17782\t45679\t所以我也希望接下來大家在司法的調查結果還沒有出來之前應該要尊重更用中性的字眼來定定那其實剛剛前面在程序發言的時候有非常多的委員都提到說過去沒有先例但其實在立法院裡面這個先例不只有而且非常多那其實以往都是互相尊重立法部門跟行政部門可以各自使用自己而認為的比較偏離中性以及符合自己立場的\n46920\t46940\t黃捷議員\n65390\t93687\t我們維護自己的主權以及維護自己的治權應該是退無可退的萬一這件事情我們在這個名詞上面退了是不是會造成接下來非常嚴重的影響不管是說接下來談判的結果以及甚至到時候的造勢的責任彼此的釐清沒有辦法進行下去甚至是一旦此門一開是不是變成說我們海巡署沒有辦法再好好的執法在執法的時候難道針對這些非法\n94107\t94928\t首先我們請管主委\n113851\t130202\t好 謝謝主委 我想要問一下就是關於2月14號這個金門海域發生的事情我想檢討是必要的因為沒有人希望看到這樣不幸的事件發生但是因為台灣是一個法治國家我們所做所有的事情都應該要執法有據\n131463\t149818\t我想問一下,因為其實我們海巡署在這個執法的基礎上不只行之有年而且也寫的白紙黑字非常明確就是兩岸條例裡面29條、32條、42條其實都有寫到說這個中國的漁船不得進入台灣限制及禁止的水域\n150578\t179147\t那如果未經許可進入了我們海巡署就必須要依法來驅離甚至扣留及傳播我們是不是過去兩岸都是在這樣的基礎跟默契上來執法的報告委員是兩岸人民關係條例這兩條還有施行細則的第42條照規定這個是依法有據這種三無的傳播我們就是扣留的程序登檢的程序扣留的程序來處理\n180027\t197224\t為什麼我會這樣說?因為我認為這件事情還是要回到事實的基礎來討論就當初為什麼這個事件會這樣發生是因為我們是在執法我們依照過去以往的慣例並且依據這個過去我們依據的這個法律來行使我們的職權\n199406\t216310\t中國的法律比我們更嚴格。中國對於三輪船這樣的傳播,如果被扣留了以後,他們抓到是一定扣留。扣留的時候,他們在拍賣的時候是把拆解包裝綁在這個拍賣中,你買去的一定要拆解。\n216710\t216730\t韓國瑜\n234838\t260396\t所以其實中方在執法的過程當中他們不只是拆解末日乳甚至是他們用更嚴格的方式在進行取締嘛所以我不太理解的是在我們的政府非常積極的查緝的時候我們用非常克制的方式用非常理性的方式在照以往的慣例在處理但是還是有人要怪罪我們的海巡署說我們執法過當\n262317\t289015\t請問有執法過當嗎?這一次我們所有的機證顯示我們的同源並沒有執法過當但是我一開始就覺得這個事情一定我們還是不偏不倚大功無失目前我們自己知道整個沒有執法過當的過程但是我們還是以招公信然後讓這個檢察官來還原真相但是整個的過程剛剛署長把事實說得很清楚我特別跟委員報告\n290996\t316966\t這個十幾天當中我們沒有把這些案情說出來因為把這些案情說出來的時候兩岸在談判桌上正在溝通說出來的時候責任很明顯會歸於一方的時候這整個氣氛是我們跟家屬在談人道的撫慰可是我們談案情在說責任在對方所以我們真的是非常非常的忍受所有的社會給的這個壓力\n318647\t340948\t那今天到國會來了真的是不得已我們必須要把這些案情都揭露出來我理解我理解主委其實是非常善意而且也很有誠意的想要用最妥善然後釋出最大的善意來處理這件事情但我還是要回到這源頭因為大家都知道這艘船就是一艘三無船沒有船名沒有船舶證書也沒有船級港的登記\n343530\t360463\t那過去我們對於三無船其實是都是非常嚴加來查緝的因為三無船會造成我們合法船舶的權益的損害以及要保障我們合法漁民的權益所以必須要支持合法打擊非法這是一貫的立場對嗎?\n361844\t377507\t是,尤其是其實對海上的安全的影響也是很有疑慮的那無論如何我們依法有據的在依法行政執行這次的去地是一定要有這樣的一個執法的過程\n377847\t401279\t所以在這件事情上面其實以往都是兩岸在共同打擊犯罪甚至是我們有一起來針對這些非法的船隻都有共同的處理對嗎在兩岸協同執法的過程當中我想我們海巡署經常也會收到對方希望說我們共同的對三無船要來加強取締我想這個在兩岸其實是我們的共識\n402259\t420968\t沒有錯 那我想針對這件事情其實以往都是這樣處理的但是我想要問的是這個事件本身請問這四位船員其中包括一位船長他們有沒有中國合法的漁民證書是沒有的他們沒有漁民證書嗎我們目前所知是沒有的\n421368\t449663\t那請問一下這艘船他們是有勞補許可證跟漁業的船舶檢驗書的嗎?我想以這樣的串織我們目前所知道的資訊是沒有但是是不是容許這個部分如果要更精確的話我們艦隊分署或我們的偵防分署可能在這個部分會掌握比較更精確的資訊\n452551\t454292\t有關於這四名船員的身份部分,我們經過查證,包括申緩者這兩名的船員講,他們的確是沒有所謂的證照。包括船舶也是一樣,沒有所謂的船舶證書。\n474548\t475609\t這絕對不是事實 沒有在高速的行駛的過程之中\n504335\t514493\t因為從掉起來船舶的最後狀態剛剛署長也有講了最後狀態看到的是油門是全車\n517614\t533360\t其實剛剛署長也有講到在台下有聽他有把最後這個船隻的狀態講得更明確他不只是全車前進而且是又滿舵即轉彎高速前進的狀態然後在這樣的狀態下加上這台這艘船它吃水很淺\n534680\t535060\t所以當他以這樣的配重的比重的狀況\n558420\t558440\t韓國瑜議員\n575816\t599606\t好 那當然我們以上是提供一些事實的釐清讓檢調做最後的判斷到底造勢責任在誰那我相信造勢責任在誰已經很明確了那我想要問一個其實今天有聽到說談判到現在中方的談判的代表聽據說有要求我方的海巡人員要到中國問訊我想問一下是不是有這件事情\n602526\t609189\t我想整個談判上面的誠信跟氛圍還有整個過程是不是我們請許副署長來說好委員好那在談判的我想用談判可能溝通我們是不是使用溝通這一個名詞來界定這樣的一個對話那在談溝通的過程當中是曾經有過這樣子的\n631517\t638366\t對方有過這樣子的說明但是經過這幾天的這個溝通以後已經逐步的已經化解了\n639275\t662077\t好那如果真有此事代表說我方的主權會有極大的受害影響希望我們要堅守我們的立場那這個在溝通的過程當中也必須要堅守我們執法的立場好那最後我想要講一下就是最後其實在這段期間有非常多人都要求我們主委以及海巡署要道歉\n663518\t684071\t這件事情其實我必須要要求我們主委及海巡署絕對不能道歉我們不僅是無從道歉也沒有道理要道歉希望在司法調查以及責任釐清出來之前我們都不應該並且沒有任何執法的依據要來道歉好不好\n685352\t711193\t兩個人命的過往我們是高度的遺憾跟哀悼也有很深的不捨之情但是因為事涉責任尚未釐清所以我們很誠懇的安排了兩次的道歉一次是對於說沒有這樣的一個收證的錄影導致於家屬十分的煎熬因為他們沒有辦法更迅速的來了解案情\n711793\t712153\t主席主席主席\n731543\t759857\t我希望就是當然這個監控的部分監視器的部分接下來一定都要處理最後一定要保存我們自己那也希望說接下來我們在人力的部分如果有不足是不是接下來也可以試著改善是不是以兩艘為主來編制確保說現場的人力都是OK的然後都才不會有這種沒有辦法有人去錄影的狀態那最後就是有沒有看到說中國現在已經派出非常大噸位的執法船了2000噸\n761778\t773822\t我們目前的這個噸位是不是跟他們沒有辦法對比是不是我們未來也可以考慮再加強派更大噸位的執法船來常駐呢?我想這個部分我們有一定的SOP那我們也有對局勢的一定的研判我想是不是容我們從海巡的專業\n786105\t790127\t謝謝主委我覺得該改善的就一定要改善但是必須要堅守三大原則就是我們的漁權、治權跟主權這一定都要堅守住好嗎\n810293\t810433\t黃捷委員\n","txt":"好 謝謝謝謝主席那我先開始在在此之前我要先表達一下我非常支持管主委對於這個名稱的更正因為我也認為在真相還沒有釐清之前不應該違背事實使用撞船這個名詞\n所以我也希望接下來大家在司法的調查結果還沒有出來之前應該要尊重更用中性的字眼來定定那其實剛剛前面在程序發言的時候有非常多的委員都提到說過去沒有先例但其實在立法院裡面這個先例不只有而且非常多那其實以往都是互相尊重立法部門跟行政部門可以各自使用自己而認為的比較偏離中性以及符合自己立場的\n黃捷議員\n我們維護自己的主權以及維護自己的治權應該是退無可退的萬一這件事情我們在這個名詞上面退了是不是會造成接下來非常嚴重的影響不管是說接下來談判的結果以及甚至到時候的造勢的責任彼此的釐清沒有辦法進行下去甚至是一旦此門一開是不是變成說我們海巡署沒有辦法再好好的執法在執法的時候難道針對這些非法\n首先我們請管主委\n好 謝謝主委 我想要問一下就是關於2月14號這個金門海域發生的事情我想檢討是必要的因為沒有人希望看到這樣不幸的事件發生但是因為台灣是一個法治國家我們所做所有的事情都應該要執法有據\n我想問一下,因為其實我們海巡署在這個執法的基礎上不只行之有年而且也寫的白紙黑字非常明確就是兩岸條例裡面29條、32條、42條其實都有寫到說這個中國的漁船不得進入台灣限制及禁止的水域\n那如果未經許可進入了我們海巡署就必須要依法來驅離甚至扣留及傳播我們是不是過去兩岸都是在這樣的基礎跟默契上來執法的報告委員是兩岸人民關係條例這兩條還有施行細則的第42條照規定這個是依法有據這種三無的傳播我們就是扣留的程序登檢的程序扣留的程序來處理\n為什麼我會這樣說?因為我認為這件事情還是要回到事實的基礎來討論就當初為什麼這個事件會這樣發生是因為我們是在執法我們依照過去以往的慣例並且依據這個過去我們依據的這個法律來行使我們的職權\n中國的法律比我們更嚴格。中國對於三輪船這樣的傳播,如果被扣留了以後,他們抓到是一定扣留。扣留的時候,他們在拍賣的時候是把拆解包裝綁在這個拍賣中,你買去的一定要拆解。\n韓國瑜\n所以其實中方在執法的過程當中他們不只是拆解末日乳甚至是他們用更嚴格的方式在進行取締嘛所以我不太理解的是在我們的政府非常積極的查緝的時候我們用非常克制的方式用非常理性的方式在照以往的慣例在處理但是還是有人要怪罪我們的海巡署說我們執法過當\n請問有執法過當嗎?這一次我們所有的機證顯示我們的同源並沒有執法過當但是我一開始就覺得這個事情一定我們還是不偏不倚大功無失目前我們自己知道整個沒有執法過當的過程但是我們還是以招公信然後讓這個檢察官來還原真相但是整個的過程剛剛署長把事實說得很清楚我特別跟委員報告\n這個十幾天當中我們沒有把這些案情說出來因為把這些案情說出來的時候兩岸在談判桌上正在溝通說出來的時候責任很明顯會歸於一方的時候這整個氣氛是我們跟家屬在談人道的撫慰可是我們談案情在說責任在對方所以我們真的是非常非常的忍受所有的社會給的這個壓力\n那今天到國會來了真的是不得已我們必須要把這些案情都揭露出來我理解我理解主委其實是非常善意而且也很有誠意的想要用最妥善然後釋出最大的善意來處理這件事情但我還是要回到這源頭因為大家都知道這艘船就是一艘三無船沒有船名沒有船舶證書也沒有船級港的登記\n那過去我們對於三無船其實是都是非常嚴加來查緝的因為三無船會造成我們合法船舶的權益的損害以及要保障我們合法漁民的權益所以必須要支持合法打擊非法這是一貫的立場對嗎?\n是,尤其是其實對海上的安全的影響也是很有疑慮的那無論如何我們依法有據的在依法行政執行這次的去地是一定要有這樣的一個執法的過程\n所以在這件事情上面其實以往都是兩岸在共同打擊犯罪甚至是我們有一起來針對這些非法的船隻都有共同的處理對嗎在兩岸協同執法的過程當中我想我們海巡署經常也會收到對方希望說我們共同的對三無船要來加強取締我想這個在兩岸其實是我們的共識\n沒有錯 那我想針對這件事情其實以往都是這樣處理的但是我想要問的是這個事件本身請問這四位船員其中包括一位船長他們有沒有中國合法的漁民證書是沒有的他們沒有漁民證書嗎我們目前所知是沒有的\n那請問一下這艘船他們是有勞補許可證跟漁業的船舶檢驗書的嗎?我想以這樣的串織我們目前所知道的資訊是沒有但是是不是容許這個部分如果要更精確的話我們艦隊分署或我們的偵防分署可能在這個部分會掌握比較更精確的資訊\n有關於這四名船員的身份部分,我們經過查證,包括申緩者這兩名的船員講,他們的確是沒有所謂的證照。包括船舶也是一樣,沒有所謂的船舶證書。\n這絕對不是事實 沒有在高速的行駛的過程之中\n因為從掉起來船舶的最後狀態剛剛署長也有講了最後狀態看到的是油門是全車\n其實剛剛署長也有講到在台下有聽他有把最後這個船隻的狀態講得更明確他不只是全車前進而且是又滿舵即轉彎高速前進的狀態然後在這樣的狀態下加上這台這艘船它吃水很淺\n所以當他以這樣的配重的比重的狀況\n韓國瑜議員\n好 那當然我們以上是提供一些事實的釐清讓檢調做最後的判斷到底造勢責任在誰那我相信造勢責任在誰已經很明確了那我想要問一個其實今天有聽到說談判到現在中方的談判的代表聽據說有要求我方的海巡人員要到中國問訊我想問一下是不是有這件事情\n我想整個談判上面的誠信跟氛圍還有整個過程是不是我們請許副署長來說好委員好那在談判的我想用談判可能溝通我們是不是使用溝通這一個名詞來界定這樣的一個對話那在談溝通的過程當中是曾經有過這樣子的\n對方有過這樣子的說明但是經過這幾天的這個溝通以後已經逐步的已經化解了\n好那如果真有此事代表說我方的主權會有極大的受害影響希望我們要堅守我們的立場那這個在溝通的過程當中也必須要堅守我們執法的立場好那最後我想要講一下就是最後其實在這段期間有非常多人都要求我們主委以及海巡署要道歉\n這件事情其實我必須要要求我們主委及海巡署絕對不能道歉我們不僅是無從道歉也沒有道理要道歉希望在司法調查以及責任釐清出來之前我們都不應該並且沒有任何執法的依據要來道歉好不好\n兩個人命的過往我們是高度的遺憾跟哀悼也有很深的不捨之情但是因為事涉責任尚未釐清所以我們很誠懇的安排了兩次的道歉一次是對於說沒有這樣的一個收證的錄影導致於家屬十分的煎熬因為他們沒有辦法更迅速的來了解案情\n主席主席主席\n我希望就是當然這個監控的部分監視器的部分接下來一定都要處理最後一定要保存我們自己那也希望說接下來我們在人力的部分如果有不足是不是接下來也可以試著改善是不是以兩艘為主來編制確保說現場的人力都是OK的然後都才不會有這種沒有辦法有人去錄影的狀態那最後就是有沒有看到說中國現在已經派出非常大噸位的執法船了2000噸\n我們目前的這個噸位是不是跟他們沒有辦法對比是不是我們未來也可以考慮再加強派更大噸位的執法船來常駐呢?我想這個部分我們有一定的SOP那我們也有對局勢的一定的研判我想是不是容我們從海巡的專業\n謝謝主委我覺得該改善的就一定要改善但是必須要堅守三大原則就是我們的漁權、治權跟主權這一定都要堅守住好嗎\n黃捷委員\n","vtt":"WEBVTT\n\n00:00.269 --> 00:16.881\n好謝謝謝謝主席那我先開始在在此之前我要先表達一下我非常支持管主委對於這個名稱的更正因為我也認為在真相還沒有釐清之前不應該違背事實使用撞船這個名詞\n\n00:17.782 --> 00:45.679\n所以我也希望接下來大家在司法的調查結果還沒有出來之前應該要尊重更用中性的字眼來定定那其實剛剛前面在程序發言的時候有非常多的委員都提到說過去沒有先例但其實在立法院裡面這個先例不只有而且非常多那其實以往都是互相尊重立法部門跟行政部門可以各自使用自己而認為的比較偏離中性以及符合自己立場的\n\n00:46.920 --> 00:46.940\n黃捷議員\n\n01:05.390 --> 01:33.687\n我們維護自己的主權以及維護自己的治權應該是退無可退的萬一這件事情我們在這個名詞上面退了是不是會造成接下來非常嚴重的影響不管是說接下來談判的結果以及甚至到時候的造勢的責任彼此的釐清沒有辦法進行下去甚至是一旦此門一開是不是變成說我們海巡署沒有辦法再好好的執法在執法的時候難道針對這些非法\n\n01:34.107 --> 01:34.928\n首先我們請管主委\n\n01:53.851 --> 02:10.202\n好謝謝主委我想要問一下就是關於2月14號這個金門海域發生的事情我想檢討是必要的因為沒有人希望看到這樣不幸的事件發生但是因為台灣是一個法治國家我們所做所有的事情都應該要執法有據\n\n02:11.463 --> 02:29.818\n我想問一下,因為其實我們海巡署在這個執法的基礎上不只行之有年而且也寫的白紙黑字非常明確就是兩岸條例裡面29條、32條、42條其實都有寫到說這個中國的漁船不得進入台灣限制及禁止的水域\n\n02:30.578 --> 02:59.147\n那如果未經許可進入了我們海巡署就必須要依法來驅離甚至扣留及傳播我們是不是過去兩岸都是在這樣的基礎跟默契上來執法的報告委員是兩岸人民關係條例這兩條還有施行細則的第42條照規定這個是依法有據這種三無的傳播我們就是扣留的程序登檢的程序扣留的程序來處理\n\n03:00.027 --> 03:17.224\n為什麼我會這樣說?因為我認為這件事情還是要回到事實的基礎來討論就當初為什麼這個事件會這樣發生是因為我們是在執法我們依照過去以往的慣例並且依據這個過去我們依據的這個法律來行使我們的職權\n\n03:19.406 --> 03:36.310\n中國的法律比我們更嚴格。中國對於三輪船這樣的傳播,如果被扣留了以後,他們抓到是一定扣留。扣留的時候,他們在拍賣的時候是把拆解包裝綁在這個拍賣中,你買去的一定要拆解。\n\n03:36.710 --> 03:36.730\n韓國瑜\n\n03:54.838 --> 04:20.396\n所以其實中方在執法的過程當中他們不只是拆解末日乳甚至是他們用更嚴格的方式在進行取締嘛所以我不太理解的是在我們的政府非常積極的查緝的時候我們用非常克制的方式用非常理性的方式在照以往的慣例在處理但是還是有人要怪罪我們的海巡署說我們執法過當\n\n04:22.317 --> 04:49.015\n請問有執法過當嗎?這一次我們所有的機證顯示我們的同源並沒有執法過當但是我一開始就覺得這個事情一定我們還是不偏不倚大功無失目前我們自己知道整個沒有執法過當的過程但是我們還是以招公信然後讓這個檢察官來還原真相但是整個的過程剛剛署長把事實說得很清楚我特別跟委員報告\n\n04:50.996 --> 05:16.966\n這個十幾天當中我們沒有把這些案情說出來因為把這些案情說出來的時候兩岸在談判桌上正在溝通說出來的時候責任很明顯會歸於一方的時候這整個氣氛是我們跟家屬在談人道的撫慰可是我們談案情在說責任在對方所以我們真的是非常非常的忍受所有的社會給的這個壓力\n\n05:18.647 --> 05:40.948\n那今天到國會來了真的是不得已我們必須要把這些案情都揭露出來我理解我理解主委其實是非常善意而且也很有誠意的想要用最妥善然後釋出最大的善意來處理這件事情但我還是要回到這源頭因為大家都知道這艘船就是一艘三無船沒有船名沒有船舶證書也沒有船級港的登記\n\n05:43.530 --> 06:00.463\n那過去我們對於三無船其實是都是非常嚴加來查緝的因為三無船會造成我們合法船舶的權益的損害以及要保障我們合法漁民的權益所以必須要支持合法打擊非法這是一貫的立場對嗎?\n\n06:01.844 --> 06:17.507\n是,尤其是其實對海上的安全的影響也是很有疑慮的那無論如何我們依法有據的在依法行政執行這次的去地是一定要有這樣的一個執法的過程\n\n06:17.847 --> 06:41.279\n所以在這件事情上面其實以往都是兩岸在共同打擊犯罪甚至是我們有一起來針對這些非法的船隻都有共同的處理對嗎在兩岸協同執法的過程當中我想我們海巡署經常也會收到對方希望說我們共同的對三無船要來加強取締我想這個在兩岸其實是我們的共識\n\n06:42.259 --> 07:00.968\n沒有錯那我想針對這件事情其實以往都是這樣處理的但是我想要問的是這個事件本身請問這四位船員其中包括一位船長他們有沒有中國合法的漁民證書是沒有的他們沒有漁民證書嗎我們目前所知是沒有的\n\n07:01.368 --> 07:29.663\n那請問一下這艘船他們是有勞補許可證跟漁業的船舶檢驗書的嗎?我想以這樣的串織我們目前所知道的資訊是沒有但是是不是容許這個部分如果要更精確的話我們艦隊分署或我們的偵防分署可能在這個部分會掌握比較更精確的資訊\n\n07:32.551 --> 07:34.292\n有關於這四名船員的身份部分,我們經過查證,包括申緩者這兩名的船員講,他們的確是沒有所謂的證照。包括船舶也是一樣,沒有所謂的船舶證書。\n\n07:54.548 --> 07:55.609\n這絕對不是事實沒有在高速的行駛的過程之中\n\n08:24.335 --> 08:34.493\n因為從掉起來船舶的最後狀態剛剛署長也有講了最後狀態看到的是油門是全車\n\n08:37.614 --> 08:53.360\n其實剛剛署長也有講到在台下有聽他有把最後這個船隻的狀態講得更明確他不只是全車前進而且是又滿舵即轉彎高速前進的狀態然後在這樣的狀態下加上這台這艘船它吃水很淺\n\n08:54.680 --> 08:55.060\n所以當他以這樣的配重的比重的狀況\n\n09:18.420 --> 09:18.440\n韓國瑜議員\n\n09:35.816 --> 09:59.606\n好那當然我們以上是提供一些事實的釐清讓檢調做最後的判斷到底造勢責任在誰那我相信造勢責任在誰已經很明確了那我想要問一個其實今天有聽到說談判到現在中方的談判的代表聽據說有要求我方的海巡人員要到中國問訊我想問一下是不是有這件事情\n\n10:02.526 --> 10:09.189\n我想整個談判上面的誠信跟氛圍還有整個過程是不是我們請許副署長來說好委員好那在談判的我想用談判可能溝通我們是不是使用溝通這一個名詞來界定這樣的一個對話那在談溝通的過程當中是曾經有過這樣子的\n\n10:31.517 --> 10:38.366\n對方有過這樣子的說明但是經過這幾天的這個溝通以後已經逐步的已經化解了\n\n10:39.275 --> 11:02.077\n好那如果真有此事代表說我方的主權會有極大的受害影響希望我們要堅守我們的立場那這個在溝通的過程當中也必須要堅守我們執法的立場好那最後我想要講一下就是最後其實在這段期間有非常多人都要求我們主委以及海巡署要道歉\n\n11:03.518 --> 11:24.071\n這件事情其實我必須要要求我們主委及海巡署絕對不能道歉我們不僅是無從道歉也沒有道理要道歉希望在司法調查以及責任釐清出來之前我們都不應該並且沒有任何執法的依據要來道歉好不好\n\n11:25.352 --> 11:51.193\n兩個人命的過往我們是高度的遺憾跟哀悼也有很深的不捨之情但是因為事涉責任尚未釐清所以我們很誠懇的安排了兩次的道歉一次是對於說沒有這樣的一個收證的錄影導致於家屬十分的煎熬因為他們沒有辦法更迅速的來了解案情\n\n11:51.793 --> 11:52.153\n主席主席主席\n\n12:11.543 --> 12:39.857\n我希望就是當然這個監控的部分監視器的部分接下來一定都要處理最後一定要保存我們自己那也希望說接下來我們在人力的部分如果有不足是不是接下來也可以試著改善是不是以兩艘為主來編制確保說現場的人力都是OK的然後都才不會有這種沒有辦法有人去錄影的狀態那最後就是有沒有看到說中國現在已經派出非常大噸位的執法船了2000噸\n\n12:41.778 --> 12:53.822\n我們目前的這個噸位是不是跟他們沒有辦法對比是不是我們未來也可以考慮再加強派更大噸位的執法船來常駐呢?我想這個部分我們有一定的SOP那我們也有對局勢的一定的研判我想是不是容我們從海巡的專業\n\n13:06.105 --> 13:10.127\n謝謝主委我覺得該改善的就一定要改善但是必須要堅守三大原則就是我們的漁權、治權跟主權這一定都要堅守住好嗎\n\n13:30.293 --> 13:30.433\n黃捷委員\n\n","segments":[{"start":0.269,"end":16.881,"text":"好 謝謝謝謝主席那我先開始在在此之前我要先表達一下我非常支持管主委對於這個名稱的更正因為我也認為在真相還沒有釐清之前不應該違背事實使用撞船這個名詞"},{"start":17.782,"end":45.679,"text":"所以我也希望接下來大家在司法的調查結果還沒有出來之前應該要尊重更用中性的字眼來定定那其實剛剛前面在程序發言的時候有非常多的委員都提到說過去沒有先例但其實在立法院裡面這個先例不只有而且非常多那其實以往都是互相尊重立法部門跟行政部門可以各自使用自己而認為的比較偏離中性以及符合自己立場的"},{"start":46.92,"end":46.94,"text":"黃捷議員"},{"start":65.39,"end":93.687,"text":"我們維護自己的主權以及維護自己的治權應該是退無可退的萬一這件事情我們在這個名詞上面退了是不是會造成接下來非常嚴重的影響不管是說接下來談判的結果以及甚至到時候的造勢的責任彼此的釐清沒有辦法進行下去甚至是一旦此門一開是不是變成說我們海巡署沒有辦法再好好的執法在執法的時候難道針對這些非法"},{"start":94.107,"end":94.928,"text":"首先我們請管主委"},{"start":113.851,"end":130.202,"text":"好 謝謝主委 我想要問一下就是關於2月14號這個金門海域發生的事情我想檢討是必要的因為沒有人希望看到這樣不幸的事件發生但是因為台灣是一個法治國家我們所做所有的事情都應該要執法有據"},{"start":131.463,"end":149.818,"text":"我想問一下,因為其實我們海巡署在這個執法的基礎上不只行之有年而且也寫的白紙黑字非常明確就是兩岸條例裡面29條、32條、42條其實都有寫到說這個中國的漁船不得進入台灣限制及禁止的水域"},{"start":150.578,"end":179.147,"text":"那如果未經許可進入了我們海巡署就必須要依法來驅離甚至扣留及傳播我們是不是過去兩岸都是在這樣的基礎跟默契上來執法的報告委員是兩岸人民關係條例這兩條還有施行細則的第42條照規定這個是依法有據這種三無的傳播我們就是扣留的程序登檢的程序扣留的程序來處理"},{"start":180.027,"end":197.224,"text":"為什麼我會這樣說?因為我認為這件事情還是要回到事實的基礎來討論就當初為什麼這個事件會這樣發生是因為我們是在執法我們依照過去以往的慣例並且依據這個過去我們依據的這個法律來行使我們的職權"},{"start":199.406,"end":216.31,"text":"中國的法律比我們更嚴格。中國對於三輪船這樣的傳播,如果被扣留了以後,他們抓到是一定扣留。扣留的時候,他們在拍賣的時候是把拆解包裝綁在這個拍賣中,你買去的一定要拆解。"},{"start":216.71,"end":216.73,"text":"韓國瑜"},{"start":234.838,"end":260.396,"text":"所以其實中方在執法的過程當中他們不只是拆解末日乳甚至是他們用更嚴格的方式在進行取締嘛所以我不太理解的是在我們的政府非常積極的查緝的時候我們用非常克制的方式用非常理性的方式在照以往的慣例在處理但是還是有人要怪罪我們的海巡署說我們執法過當"},{"start":262.317,"end":289.015,"text":"請問有執法過當嗎?這一次我們所有的機證顯示我們的同源並沒有執法過當但是我一開始就覺得這個事情一定我們還是不偏不倚大功無失目前我們自己知道整個沒有執法過當的過程但是我們還是以招公信然後讓這個檢察官來還原真相但是整個的過程剛剛署長把事實說得很清楚我特別跟委員報告"},{"start":290.996,"end":316.966,"text":"這個十幾天當中我們沒有把這些案情說出來因為把這些案情說出來的時候兩岸在談判桌上正在溝通說出來的時候責任很明顯會歸於一方的時候這整個氣氛是我們跟家屬在談人道的撫慰可是我們談案情在說責任在對方所以我們真的是非常非常的忍受所有的社會給的這個壓力"},{"start":318.647,"end":340.948,"text":"那今天到國會來了真的是不得已我們必須要把這些案情都揭露出來我理解我理解主委其實是非常善意而且也很有誠意的想要用最妥善然後釋出最大的善意來處理這件事情但我還是要回到這源頭因為大家都知道這艘船就是一艘三無船沒有船名沒有船舶證書也沒有船級港的登記"},{"start":343.53,"end":360.463,"text":"那過去我們對於三無船其實是都是非常嚴加來查緝的因為三無船會造成我們合法船舶的權益的損害以及要保障我們合法漁民的權益所以必須要支持合法打擊非法這是一貫的立場對嗎?"},{"start":361.844,"end":377.507,"text":"是,尤其是其實對海上的安全的影響也是很有疑慮的那無論如何我們依法有據的在依法行政執行這次的去地是一定要有這樣的一個執法的過程"},{"start":377.847,"end":401.279,"text":"所以在這件事情上面其實以往都是兩岸在共同打擊犯罪甚至是我們有一起來針對這些非法的船隻都有共同的處理對嗎在兩岸協同執法的過程當中我想我們海巡署經常也會收到對方希望說我們共同的對三無船要來加強取締我想這個在兩岸其實是我們的共識"},{"start":402.259,"end":420.968,"text":"沒有錯 那我想針對這件事情其實以往都是這樣處理的但是我想要問的是這個事件本身請問這四位船員其中包括一位船長他們有沒有中國合法的漁民證書是沒有的他們沒有漁民證書嗎我們目前所知是沒有的"},{"start":421.368,"end":449.663,"text":"那請問一下這艘船他們是有勞補許可證跟漁業的船舶檢驗書的嗎?我想以這樣的串織我們目前所知道的資訊是沒有但是是不是容許這個部分如果要更精確的話我們艦隊分署或我們的偵防分署可能在這個部分會掌握比較更精確的資訊"},{"start":452.551,"end":454.292,"text":"有關於這四名船員的身份部分,我們經過查證,包括申緩者這兩名的船員講,他們的確是沒有所謂的證照。包括船舶也是一樣,沒有所謂的船舶證書。"},{"start":474.548,"end":475.609,"text":"這絕對不是事實 沒有在高速的行駛的過程之中"},{"start":504.335,"end":514.493,"text":"因為從掉起來船舶的最後狀態剛剛署長也有講了最後狀態看到的是油門是全車"},{"start":517.614,"end":533.36,"text":"其實剛剛署長也有講到在台下有聽他有把最後這個船隻的狀態講得更明確他不只是全車前進而且是又滿舵即轉彎高速前進的狀態然後在這樣的狀態下加上這台這艘船它吃水很淺"},{"start":534.68,"end":535.06,"text":"所以當他以這樣的配重的比重的狀況"},{"start":558.42,"end":558.44,"text":"韓國瑜議員"},{"start":575.816,"end":599.606,"text":"好 那當然我們以上是提供一些事實的釐清讓檢調做最後的判斷到底造勢責任在誰那我相信造勢責任在誰已經很明確了那我想要問一個其實今天有聽到說談判到現在中方的談判的代表聽據說有要求我方的海巡人員要到中國問訊我想問一下是不是有這件事情"},{"start":602.526,"end":609.189,"text":"我想整個談判上面的誠信跟氛圍還有整個過程是不是我們請許副署長來說好委員好那在談判的我想用談判可能溝通我們是不是使用溝通這一個名詞來界定這樣的一個對話那在談溝通的過程當中是曾經有過這樣子的"},{"start":631.517,"end":638.366,"text":"對方有過這樣子的說明但是經過這幾天的這個溝通以後已經逐步的已經化解了"},{"start":639.275,"end":662.077,"text":"好那如果真有此事代表說我方的主權會有極大的受害影響希望我們要堅守我們的立場那這個在溝通的過程當中也必須要堅守我們執法的立場好那最後我想要講一下就是最後其實在這段期間有非常多人都要求我們主委以及海巡署要道歉"},{"start":663.518,"end":684.071,"text":"這件事情其實我必須要要求我們主委及海巡署絕對不能道歉我們不僅是無從道歉也沒有道理要道歉希望在司法調查以及責任釐清出來之前我們都不應該並且沒有任何執法的依據要來道歉好不好"},{"start":685.352,"end":711.193,"text":"兩個人命的過往我們是高度的遺憾跟哀悼也有很深的不捨之情但是因為事涉責任尚未釐清所以我們很誠懇的安排了兩次的道歉一次是對於說沒有這樣的一個收證的錄影導致於家屬十分的煎熬因為他們沒有辦法更迅速的來了解案情"},{"start":711.793,"end":712.153,"text":"主席主席主席"},{"start":731.543,"end":759.857,"text":"我希望就是當然這個監控的部分監視器的部分接下來一定都要處理最後一定要保存我們自己那也希望說接下來我們在人力的部分如果有不足是不是接下來也可以試著改善是不是以兩艘為主來編制確保說現場的人力都是OK的然後都才不會有這種沒有辦法有人去錄影的狀態那最後就是有沒有看到說中國現在已經派出非常大噸位的執法船了2000噸"},{"start":761.778,"end":773.822,"text":"我們目前的這個噸位是不是跟他們沒有辦法對比是不是我們未來也可以考慮再加強派更大噸位的執法船來常駐呢?我想這個部分我們有一定的SOP那我們也有對局勢的一定的研判我想是不是容我們從海巡的專業"},{"start":786.105,"end":790.127,"text":"謝謝主委我覺得該改善的就一定要改善但是必須要堅守三大原則就是我們的漁權、治權跟主權這一定都要堅守住好嗎"},{"start":810.293,"end":810.433,"text":"黃捷委員"}]}}}}