{"id":149297,"url":"https://ivod.ly.gov.tw/Play/Clip/1M/149297","video_url":"https://ivod-lyvod.cdn.hinet.net/vod_1/_definst_/mp4:1MClips/ad9f873b941d2ddd01523db85e461c6e4df0e2384efaf28bf8ba9b0039caa7a6782d339baf17d91e5ea18f28b6918d91.mp4/playlist.m3u8","委員名稱":"高金素梅","委員發言時間":"13:29:55 - 13:44:58","影片長度":"00:15:03","會議時間":"2024-03-04T09:00:00+08:00","會議名稱":"立法院第11屆第1會期內政委員會第2次全體委員會議（事由：邀請海洋委員會主任委員、大陸委員會主任委員、國防部及海軍司令部參謀長就「金門撞船案:翻船執法過程及後續處理」進行專題報告，並備質詢。）","meet":{"tmpMeeting":null,"title":"第11屆第1會期內政委員會第2次全體委員會議","term":11,"type":"委員會","sessionPeriod":1,"sessionTimes":2,"committees":[15],"id":"委員會-11-1-15-2"},"date":"2024-03-04","duration":903,"end_time":"2024-03-04T13:44:58+08:00","start_time":"2024-03-04T13:29:55+08:00","features":["ai-transcript","gazette"],"type":"Clip","gazette":{"lineno":1445,"blocks":[["高金委員素梅：（13時29分）非常謝謝召委，我還是接續一下陳雪生委員剛剛說的，我不同意主委您剛剛的說法，說忍耐，也不同意邱太三主委說的忍耐，因為今天如果有真相，我們不需要忍耐，我們今天有錄音、錄影，我們不需要忍耐，我們大可以在談判桌上把這些證據通通呈現出來，然後讓對岸的人清楚知道不是我們撞死了兩條人命，這當中的細節都會非常的清楚，不是你們今天一昧的說把所有的資料交給了檢調，所有的資料沒有錄音、沒有錄影。就是因為這樣擠牙膏式的方式，才會造成現在外界那麼多的疑慮、兩岸的情勢升高，讓我們的談判代表或專案小組的代表去那邊完全啞口無言，我覺得委屈的是他。所以今天我很高興我安排了這個專案報告，也非常謝謝蘇巧慧委員，從蘇巧慧委員的質詢裡面，我們聽到了署長的回答其實是有非常多的你們手上的資料，所以現在我要請署長到備詢臺上，我要問您幾個問題。"],["主席：有請署長。"],["高金委員素梅：我們的署長不僅僅是海巡署署長，也是政務副主委，而且也是我們專業的海軍，也是我們的國安系統的成員，你曾經待過這麼多的地方，所以我相信你也不樂見今天兩岸情勢升高，你也不樂見海巡署的所有弟兄們因為兩岸情勢的升高，要在這樣兩岸巡防艦隊不對等的狀況之下這麼辛苦的出勤務，所以你也希望落幕，對不對？"],["周副主任委員美伍：是的。"],["高金委員素梅：好，現在我要就幾個問題請教，因為今天我聽到了幾個問題，第一個問題是為什麼會有那麼多的質疑？就是第一時間你們說海巡指事發過程非常短暫，因為忙於救人，所以沒有錄影蒐證，然後你們又改口說，陸船蛇行拒檢，然後不慎翻覆，造成四個人落海，直到有人質疑你們之後，你們又改口講海巡署的艦艇是在高速追逐的狀況之下，船身多次接觸，剛剛你又說其實兩岸之間的協同執法有非常多次，而且你們有密切聯繫，我剛剛又聽到您說其實這件事情不是突發事件。您是大年初三也就是2月12號的時候就已經發現這所謂的三無船，也就是說剛剛您的回應讓我們清楚知道，不是在海上突然出現，而是接到了所有的訊息之後，你們按照SOP來做一些你們應該準備的工作。那現在我要問的第一個問題是，依據海岸巡防機關海域執法作業規範第九條的規定，我們的海巡人員執行職務的時候應該要依照規定穿著制服或出示證明文件，並且要隨時照相、錄音、錄影，或是用其他蒐證的方式保全相關的事證，以為移送主管機關查處的依據，除了這個之外，也是要保護我們的海巡弟兄，對吧？"],["周副主任委員美伍：是。"],["高金委員素梅：第十條第二項也有規定，應該要與被檢的船舶保持距離，然後要以雷達監控，同時全程錄影、照相存證，並且要依照規定通報反映，所以按照我們海岸巡防機關海域執法作業規範第九條、第十條，你們早就應該要準備這些東西了，而不是對外宣稱你們沒有密錄器，你們沒有打開錄音裝置，你們並沒有全程錄影。而且您剛剛還準備了一個很大的照片，這個人掉下海，你們有時間照相，那就表示其實你們是有全程錄影的，只是你們不願意拿出來。所以你剛剛講，很多次你們在做這些處理的時候其實是有碰撞。請署長回答我的問題，你們有沒有全程錄音、錄影？如果沒有的話，就是造成這一次這麼多問題產生的原因，你們要不要道歉？當然已經道歉了，你們要不要懲處相關人員？你們有沒有一些行政程序的報告？簡單回答。"],["周副主任委員美伍：好，謝謝召委給我這個機會說明，第一、初三報案的那艘船，我們不能確定它是不是三無船舶，有可能是漁船，有可能是貨船，有可能是其他的船。"],["高金委員素梅：好，謝謝署長的回應，我現在能不能再詢問您，您不能夠確定它是不是三無船舶，那麼你們應該會有通報紀錄吧？"],["周副主任委員美伍：是。"],["高金委員素梅：而且這個通報紀錄就我瞭解其實你們在記者會是有公布的，你們公布的通聯時間是12點41分，距離你們修正後公布的案發時間下午1點10分，足足相差了30分鐘，最關鍵的這些通聯紀錄卻不公布。您剛剛又說你沒有辦法清楚知道它是不是三無船隻，所以我們現在連根本的證據都不清楚，你怎麼可以回答我這個呢？那有沒有錄音？"],["周副主任委員美伍：不同時間，初三的報案是民眾打118跟我們報案。"],["高金委員素梅：好，那14號的呢？"],["周副主任委員美伍：14號是我們的雷達監控有快速目標進入到我們的禁限制水域。"],["高金委員素梅：好，既然有了快速的雷達訊息，你們應該很清楚知道就開始有通報機制了吧？"],["周副主任委員美伍：當然。"],["高金委員素梅：這些通報機制的錄音有沒有？"],["周副主任委員美伍：都有。"],["高金委員素梅：能不能提供給我們委員會？有沒有交給檢調單位？"],["周副主任委員美伍：交給檢調單位。"],["高金委員素梅：那可不可以提供給我們委員會？"],["周副主任委員美伍：我們現在……"],["高金委員素梅：我想這不是你能不能，這是召委到時候會不會安排的問題。好，第二個問題……"],["周副主任委員美伍：我可能要問一下……"],["高金委員素梅：第二個問題，對不起，您的意思就是有錄音，所以……"],["周副主任委員美伍：另外我……"],["高金委員素梅：所以我很明確的說，你能不能明確的回答我有沒有錄音、錄影？"],["周副主任委員美伍：你所謂的錄影，剛剛你講我們什麼救難為什麼會……"],["高金委員素梅：2月14號有沒有錄音、錄影？"],["周副主任委員美伍：錄音有我們執管的這一部分的錄音。"],["高金委員素梅：全程？"],["周副主任委員美伍：無線電，全程。"],["高金委員素梅：從你們發現了這個所謂的三無船隻，一直到落海、你們如何救人，這個所有的過程都有錄音嗎？"],["周副主任委員美伍：都有。"],["高金委員素梅：好，謝謝。本席待會做一個結論，請你們提供給委員會。"],["周副主任委員美伍：好。"],["高金委員素梅：第二個……"],["周副主任委員美伍：另外我還要給你說明……"],["高金委員素梅：第二個、第二個、第二個、我現在在問，您不用說明了。"],["周副主任委員美伍：我一定要說明，報告召委。"],["高金委員素梅：我要問您的是，為什麼你們不公布完整的無線電通聯紀錄？"],["周副主任委員美伍：我們沒有不公布，因為這個已經交給檢調了。"],["高金委員素梅：好，交給檢調那沒關係，我會讓你們提供給我們委員會。"],["周副主任委員美伍：是。"],["高金委員素梅：第二個問題就是海岸巡防機關海域執法作業規範第十條有要求要雷達監控，海巡署有沒有掌握事件相關船隻的雷達軌跡圖？有或沒有？"],["周副主任委員美伍：有。"],["高金委員素梅：好，那能不能提供給我們委員會所有的委員來參考？"],["周副主任委員美伍：因為我們上一次開記者會的時候，就請示檢察官我們可不可以在記者會的時候公布資料……"],["高金委員素梅：好，再請問一下……"],["周副主任委員美伍：但是檢察官明確的告訴我們，你們不可以公布。"],["高金委員素梅：我瞭解，好，現在再請問一下，當我們去協商的時候，有沒有提供這個錄音檔給對岸？"],["周副主任委員美伍：這個我們不能提供，因為這個是……"],["高金委員素梅：為什麼不能提供？這個不就是很重要的證據之一嗎？當你們在談判的時候，這不就是很重要的證據之一嗎？"],["周副主任委員美伍：如果召委你講重要的證據之一，把這個雷達的整個過程公布給他們一看，他就知道當時的情形是怎麼樣了。"],["高金委員素梅：這當然啦！這最好啦！就要釐清所有的問題啊！不是嗎？"],["周副主任委員美伍：這個東西現在都是要由檢調來決定。"],["高金委員素梅：我不同意你的說法，謝謝署長的回應。我必須要講的是今天很確定的是有錄音，還有雷達軌跡圖，這兩個其實都有，署長的回答是因為你們交給了檢調，所以不能夠提供？"],["周副主任委員美伍：我們沒有說不能提供，如果檢調同意我們提供，我們就提供。"],["高金委員素梅：立法院有立法院的規則。"],["周副主任委員美伍：好，對，當然依照規定。"],["高金委員素梅：好不好？謝謝您。"],["周副主任委員美伍：當然依照規定。"],["高金委員素梅：謝謝，請你休息一下。","我請問國防部的代表，因為今天我有請國防部列席，也希望你們來表達一些意見。請海軍司令部的副參謀長張副參謀長。請問一下，自從海巡署強化了平時和戰時的轉換機制之後，海巡署的近岸雷達情資是不是已經透過連線情傳給海軍的聯成戰系，你們雙方其實是有互換情資，有沒有這個事情？"],["張副參謀長獻瑞：是的，我們跟海巡署之間有支援協定的簽署，有情資的分享。"],["高金委員素梅：有嘛？"],["張副參謀長獻瑞：是。"],["高金委員素梅：好，我要再請問您，兩岸因為這個金門撞船事件，關係越來越緊張了，這不僅僅只是海巡署的問題，不僅僅是海委會的問題，也不僅僅是陸委會的問題，未來可能會關係到國防的問題。所以請問海軍的聯成戰系可不可以公布你們所掌握的雷達軌跡圖，然後跟我們海巡單位的航軌，把它一起公布？"],["張副參謀長獻瑞：跟委員報告，因為針對這一次的事件來講，我們聯成系統所掌控的目標並沒有包含到這麼小的目標，那這個目標在我們聯成系統掌握的目標部分，像這種近岸水域小型目標的部分，在我們聯成系統是沒有辦法掌握的。"],["高金委員素梅：沒有，不好意思喔！前海軍的軍長他有指出，你們以前有大成系統，這個大成系統也就是現在的聯成戰系，你們的聯成戰系，已經跟海巡近岸的雷達……你們透過連線情傳海軍聯成戰鬥系統了。所以你不能告訴我連這麼小的你們都看不到，因為你們的訊息都已經互傳了。"],["張副參謀長獻瑞：跟委員報告，我們跟海巡署之間的目標監控部分，我們是有責任的分屬，就像委員所提的……"],["高金委員素梅：沒有、沒有、沒有，那如果是如你…………"],["張副參謀長獻瑞：在聯成系統上是……"],["高金委員素梅：對，如果如你所講的話，你的意思是，你監測你的一個系統，然後海巡署監測一個系統，是這樣的意思嗎？如果是這樣的意思的話，為什麼你們在媒體上公布的時候，你們不去做一些澄清呢？因為現在我所拿到的這個媒體上的公布是說，你們跟海巡署已經形成了一個情傳系統。"],["張副參謀長獻瑞：情傳系統是有。"],["高金委員素梅：所以情傳系統是有嘛！"],["張副參謀長獻瑞：是有。"],["高金委員素梅：所以只要是海巡署搜尋到的所有軌跡，你們也都會有嘛？"],["張副參謀長獻瑞：就聯成系統的限制來講的話，聯成系統上是沒有的。"],["高金委員素梅：你講沒有沒關係，我覺得國防部還有今天所有在場官員的回應，我們今天至少釐清楚了兩件事情，一、有錄音；二、有錄影；三、我們的國防部其實對這件事情來說，你們不能夠排除在外，因為兩岸的情勢慢慢地升高了之後，其實它危及的不僅僅是金門、廈門或者是澎湖，或者是幾個列島的人民的生命財產安全，它危及的是二千三百萬臺灣人民的安全。所以國防部也好，海巡署也好，海委會也好，陸委會也好，你們必須好好處理這樣的事情，不然的話就是愧對二千三百萬臺灣人民的安全。謝謝。"],["周副主任委員美伍：委員，我還是要說明一下，剛剛我講有的錄音，是我們的指管通訊的錄音，錄影是我們的……"],["高金委員素梅：好了，您不要……"],["周副主任委員美伍：雷達，您問我的是……"],["高金委員素梅：好了，你不要在這邊再……"],["周副主任委員美伍：有沒有雷達的軌跡圖，我說有……"],["高金委員素梅：好，另外……"],["周副主任委員美伍：您看到救難的那些畫面是我們的35噸艇，我們一共來了7艘艇，那些艇都有360度的舷外的攝影，那個鏡頭都是來救難的船……"],["高金委員素梅：好，謝謝你，不要浪費大家的時間。"],["周副主任委員美伍：所看到的、所看到的，那個都是……"],["高金委員素梅：至於本席、召委未來會尋求什麼樣的資料，我再提醒你一下，因為你既然你要在這裡告訴我的話，我要提醒你一下，我們立法院是有職權調閱所有的資料，不要告訴我是國防機密，也不要告訴我已經交給檢調了，所以不提供給本委員會。好不好？謝謝。"],["周副主任委員美伍：不會，我們一定提供。"],["高金委員素梅：謝謝，我到時候會邀請你們提供什麼資料，我會再告訴你們，非常清楚地告訴你們，謝謝。"],["周副主任委員美伍：好，我們一定配合。"],["主席：謝謝高金召委的質詢。按照我們召委的宣告，現在我們就休息20分鐘用餐，謝謝大家。","休息（13時45分）","繼續開會（14時9分）"],["主席（高金委員素梅）：現在我們繼續開會，但是有一些官員還沒有回到位子上，我們是不是等一下他們回到位子上以後才開始質詢。等他們回座，好，謝謝。","現在兩位主委都到了，我們繼續開會。請沈伯洋委員質詢。"]],"agenda":{"page_end":328,"meet_id":"委員會-11-1-15-2","speakers":["高金素梅","傅崐萁","陳雪生","王美惠","洪孟楷","蘇巧慧","李柏毅","麥玉珍","徐欣瑩","丁學忠","許宇甄","張智倫","黃建賓","牛煦庭","張宏陸","黃捷","吳琪銘","沈伯洋","羅智強","賴士葆","吳沛憶","李坤城","鄭天財Sra 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\"score\": 0.763}], \"language\": \"zh\"}","srt":"1\n00:00:00,470 --> 00:00:14,947\n我還是接續一下陳雪生委員剛剛說的我不同意這個主委您剛剛的說法說忍耐也不同意這個邱泰山主委您說的忍耐今天如果我們有真相我們不需要忍耐\n\n2\n00:00:15,808 --> 00:00:17,950\n我們今天有日映日影,我們不需要忍耐我們大可以在談判桌上把這些證據通通呈現出來然後讓對岸的人清楚知道不是我們撞死了兩條人命而是這當中的細節都非常的清楚而不是你們今天一昧的說把所有的資料\n\n3\n00:00:39,065 --> 00:00:39,245\n高金素梅\n\n4\n00:01:09,105 --> 00:01:09,405\n蘇巧慧委員\n\n5\n00:01:31,107 --> 00:01:49,239\n我們的署長他不僅僅是海巡署的署長他也是政務副主委而且也是我們的專業的海軍也是我們的這個國安系統你曾經待過這麼多的地方所以我相信您也不樂見今天\n\n6\n00:01:49,599 --> 00:01:49,639\n是的\n\n7\n00:02:16,555 --> 00:02:18,996\n現在我要就幾個問題因為今天我聽到了幾個問題第一個問題為什麼會有那麼多的質疑就是第一個你們說海巡子事發過程非常短暫因為很忙救人沒有錄影收證\n\n8\n00:02:34,801 --> 00:02:53,906\n然後你們又再改口說陸船舌形巨減然後不慎翻覆造成了4個人落海到有人質疑了你們之後你們又改口講了海巡署的艦艇是在高速追逐的狀況之下它的船身多次的接觸剛剛你又說\n\n9\n00:02:56,727 --> 00:03:11,281\n其實兩岸之間的協同執法有非常多次而且你們是有密切聯繫而且我剛剛又聽到您剛剛說其實這件事情不是突發事件\n\n10\n00:03:12,142 --> 00:03:38,473\n您是初三的時候大年初三也就是2月12號的時候其實你們就已經發現這所謂的三五船所以也就是說剛剛您的回應讓我們清楚知道不是突然在海上突然出現而是接到了所有的訊息之後你們按照SOP的流程來做一些\n\n11\n00:03:40,874 --> 00:04:08,252\n你們應該準備的工作那現在我要問的第一個問題是依據海岸巡防激光海域執法作業的規範的第9條的規定我們的海巡人員執行職務的時候應該要依照規定穿著制服或者是出示證明文件並且要隨時照相錄音錄影或者是用其他修正的方式保全相關的事證\n\n12\n00:04:09,173 --> 00:04:18,817\n以為移送主管機關查處的依據除了這個之外也是要保護我們的海巡弟兄對吧第10條第2項你也規定應該要與被檢的船舶保持距離然後要以雷達監控同時全程錄影照相存證\n\n13\n00:04:33,802 --> 00:04:44,989\n並且要依照規定通報反映所以按照我們海岸巡防機關海域執法作業規範第9條第10條你們早就應該要準備這些東西了而不是對外的宣稱說你們沒有密錄器你們沒有打開錄音的這個裝置你們並沒有全程錄影而且您剛剛還準備了一個很大的照片\n\n14\n00:05:00,558 --> 00:05:04,262\n這個人掉下去了海裡面你們有時間照相那就表示其實你們全程是有錄影的只是你們不願意拿出來所以你剛剛講很多次你們在做這些處理的時候其實是有碰撞\n\n15\n00:05:19,156 --> 00:05:23,960\n好請署長您回答我的問題你們有沒有全程錄音錄影如果沒有的話就是造成這一次的那麼多的問題的產生你們要不要道歉當然已經道歉了你們要不要懲處相關的人員你們有沒有一些行政程序的報告簡單回答好謝謝昭偉給我這個機會說明\n\n16\n00:05:45,239 --> 00:05:57,431\n第一個,出山報案的那艘船,我們不能確定它是不是三、五船舶,有可能是漁船,有可能是貨船,有可能是其他的船艇。好,謝謝署長您的回應,謝謝。我現在能不能再詢問您,您不能夠去確定它是不是三、五船舶,那麼你們應該會有通報記錄吧?是。\n\n17\n00:06:09,642 --> 00:06:27,639\n而且這個通報紀錄就我了解就我了解其實你們在記者會是有公布的你們公布的通聯時間是12點41分然後距離你們修正後公布的案發時間是下午1點10分足足相差了30分鐘\n\n18\n00:06:29,361 --> 00:06:29,561\n高金素梅議員\n\n19\n00:06:45,200 --> 00:07:12,851\n不同時間,初三的報案是民眾打118跟我們報案好,那14號的呢?14號是我們的雷達監控有快速目標進入到我們的境線之處既然有了快速的這樣子的一個雷達訊息你們應該很清楚知道就開始有通報機制了吧?當然這些通報機制的錄音有沒有?都有能不能提供到我們委員會來?\n\n20\n00:07:14,452 --> 00:07:19,855\n有沒有交給檢調單位那可不可以提供到我們的委員會來我想這不是你能不能這是我召委到時候會不會安排第二個問題對不起您的意思就是有錄音所以我很明確的說你能不能明確的回答我有沒有錄音錄影\n\n21\n00:07:41,002 --> 00:08:04,398\n你所謂的錄影,剛剛你講我們什麼救難什麼……2月14號有沒有錄音錄影?錄音有我們執管的這一部分的錄音全程,從你們發現了這個所謂的三五船隻,一直到落海,你們如何救人,這個所有的錄音過程都有嗎?\n\n22\n00:08:05,739 --> 00:08:14,721\n好謝謝本席會待會做一個結論請你們提供給委員會第二個第二個第二個第二個我要問您的是為什麼你們不公佈完整的無線電通連接我們沒有不公佈因為這個已經交給檢調了交給檢調那沒關係\n\n23\n00:08:36,329 --> 00:08:46,954\n海岸巡防機關海運執法作業的規範第10條有要求要雷達監控,海巡署有沒有掌握事件相關的船隻的雷達軌跡圖?有或沒有?\n\n24\n00:08:48,243 --> 00:08:50,344\n當我們去協商的時候有沒有提供這個錄音榜給對岸?\n\n25\n00:09:15,273 --> 00:09:16,013\n高金素梅主席\n\n26\n00:09:32,358 --> 00:09:40,021\n一公佈．給他們一看．他就知道當時的情形是怎麼樣．所以這個東西現在都是要有檢調來決定我不同意你的說法謝謝署長你的回應所以我要必須講的是今天很確定的是說有錄音還有雷達軌跡圖所以這兩個其實都有的\n\n27\n00:09:57,228 --> 00:10:24,854\n那麼這兩個的回答,署長的回答是因為你們交給了檢調,對不對?所以你不能夠提供?我們沒有說不能提供,如果檢調同意我們提供,我們就提供。立法院有立法的願意支持,好不好?謝謝您,謝謝請您休息一下。我請問國防部的代表,因為今天我也請國防部來列席,也希望你們來表達一下你們的一些,一些這個意見。那請這個海軍司令部的副參謀長,詹副參謀長。\n\n28\n00:10:30,542 --> 00:10:54,704\n謝謝請把我的時間暫停一下好請問一下自從海巡署強化了平時和戰時的轉換機制之後海巡署的禁案雷達情資是不是已經透過連線侵傳給海軍的連程戰係你們雙方其實是有互換情資有沒有這個事情是我們跟海巡署之間有支援協定的簽署有情資的分享有嗎是\n\n29\n00:10:55,365 --> 00:11:04,689\n好我要再請問您兩岸因為這個金門撞船事件關係越來越緊張了這不僅僅只是海巡署的問題不僅僅是海委會的問題也不僅僅是陸委會的問題未來可能會關係到國防的問題所以請問海軍的連程戰係可不可以公佈你們所掌握的雷達軌跡圖然後跟我們的海巡單位的航軌\n\n30\n00:11:23,937 --> 00:11:25,057\n高金素梅議員\n\n31\n00:11:51,563 --> 00:12:13,577\n這個大程系統也就是現在的連程戰系你們的連程戰系已經跟海巡禁岸的雷達強制你們透過連線、勤船、海軍連程戰鬥系統了所以你不能告訴我說連這麼小的你們都看不到因為你們的訊息都已經互傳了\n\n32\n00:12:15,618 --> 00:12:38,385\n各位委員報告,我們跟海巡署之間的目標的監控的部分,我們是有責任的分屬,那就像委員所指的沒有沒有沒有,那如果是如你所講的話,你的意思是說你監測你的一個系統,然後海巡署監測一個系統,是這樣的意思嗎?那如果是這樣的意思的話,為什麼你們在媒體上公佈的時候,你們不去做一些澄清呢?\n\n33\n00:12:39,105 --> 00:13:02,031\n因為現在我所拿到的這個媒體上的公布是說你們跟海巡署已經形成了一個侵船系統所以侵船系統是有嗎?是有所以只要是海巡署搜尋到的所有的軌跡你們也都會有嗎?就連程系統的限制來講的話是連程系統上是沒有的\n\n34\n00:13:03,668 --> 00:13:27,729\n你講沒有沒關係我覺得國防部還有這個今天我們的所有的這個在場的官員的回應我們至少今天離清楚了兩件事情一有錄音二有錄影三我們的國防部其實對這件事情來說你們不能夠排除在外因為兩岸因為兩岸情勢慢慢的升高了之後其實它危急的\n\n35\n00:13:28,430 --> 00:13:28,790\n李慧琼議員\n\n36\n00:13:48,883 --> 00:13:49,084\n高金素梅議員\n\n37\n00:14:00,197 --> 00:14:12,306\n委員我還是要說明一下,剛剛我講有的錄音是我們的指管通信的錄音錄影是我們的雷達,您問我是有沒有雷達的累積圖另外您看到救難的那些畫面是我們的35頓艇,我們一共來了7艘艇\n\n38\n00:14:20,592 --> 00:14:20,812\n高金素梅\n\n39\n00:14:36,949 --> 00:15:00,886\n因為既然你要在這裡告訴我的話我要提醒一下我們立法院是有這個職權調閱所有的資料不要告訴我是國防機密也不要告訴我已經交給檢調了所以不提供給本委員會好不好謝謝我們一定提供謝謝我到時候會邀請你們提供什麼資料我會再告訴你們非常清楚的告訴你們我們一定配合\n\n","tsv":"start\tend\ttext\n470\t14947\t我還是接續一下陳雪生委員剛剛說的我不同意這個主委您剛剛的說法說忍耐也不同意這個邱泰山主委您說的忍耐今天如果我們有真相我們不需要忍耐\n15808\t17950\t我們今天有日映日影,我們不需要忍耐我們大可以在談判桌上把這些證據通通呈現出來然後讓對岸的人清楚知道不是我們撞死了兩條人命而是這當中的細節都非常的清楚而不是你們今天一昧的說把所有的資料\n39065\t39245\t高金素梅\n69105\t69405\t蘇巧慧委員\n91107\t109239\t我們的署長他不僅僅是海巡署的署長他也是政務副主委而且也是我們的專業的海軍也是我們的這個國安系統你曾經待過這麼多的地方所以我相信您也不樂見今天\n109599\t109639\t是的\n136555\t138996\t現在我要就幾個問題因為今天我聽到了幾個問題第一個問題為什麼會有那麼多的質疑就是第一個你們說海巡子事發過程非常短暫因為很忙救人沒有錄影收證\n154801\t173906\t然後你們又再改口說陸船舌形巨減然後不慎翻覆造成了4個人落海到有人質疑了你們之後你們又改口講了海巡署的艦艇是在高速追逐的狀況之下它的船身多次的接觸剛剛你又說\n176727\t191281\t其實兩岸之間的協同執法有非常多次而且你們是有密切聯繫而且我剛剛又聽到您剛剛說其實這件事情不是突發事件\n192142\t218473\t您是初三的時候大年初三也就是2月12號的時候其實你們就已經發現這所謂的三五船所以也就是說剛剛您的回應讓我們清楚知道不是突然在海上突然出現而是接到了所有的訊息之後你們按照SOP的流程來做一些\n220874\t248252\t你們應該準備的工作那現在我要問的第一個問題是依據海岸巡防激光海域執法作業的規範的第9條的規定我們的海巡人員執行職務的時候應該要依照規定穿著制服或者是出示證明文件並且要隨時照相錄音錄影或者是用其他修正的方式保全相關的事證\n249173\t258817\t以為移送主管機關查處的依據除了這個之外也是要保護我們的海巡弟兄對吧第10條第2項你也規定應該要與被檢的船舶保持距離然後要以雷達監控同時全程錄影照相存證\n273802\t284989\t並且要依照規定通報反映所以按照我們海岸巡防機關海域執法作業規範第9條第10條你們早就應該要準備這些東西了而不是對外的宣稱說你們沒有密錄器你們沒有打開錄音的這個裝置你們並沒有全程錄影而且您剛剛還準備了一個很大的照片\n300558\t304262\t這個人掉下去了海裡面你們有時間照相那就表示其實你們全程是有錄影的只是你們不願意拿出來所以你剛剛講很多次你們在做這些處理的時候其實是有碰撞\n319156\t323960\t好 請署長您回答我的問題你們有沒有全程錄音錄影如果沒有的話就是造成這一次的那麼多的問題的產生你們要不要道歉當然已經道歉了你們要不要懲處相關的人員你們有沒有一些行政程序的報告簡單回答好 謝謝昭偉給我這個機會說明\n345239\t357431\t第一個,出山報案的那艘船,我們不能確定它是不是三、五船舶,有可能是漁船,有可能是貨船,有可能是其他的船艇。好,謝謝署長您的回應,謝謝。我現在能不能再詢問您,您不能夠去確定它是不是三、五船舶,那麼你們應該會有通報記錄吧?是。\n369642\t387639\t而且這個通報紀錄就我了解就我了解其實你們在記者會是有公布的你們公布的通聯時間是12點41分然後距離你們修正後公布的案發時間是下午1點10分足足相差了30分鐘\n389361\t389561\t高金素梅議員\n405200\t432851\t不同時間,初三的報案是民眾打118跟我們報案好,那14號的呢?14號是我們的雷達監控有快速目標進入到我們的境線之處既然有了快速的這樣子的一個雷達訊息你們應該很清楚知道就開始有通報機制了吧?當然這些通報機制的錄音有沒有?都有能不能提供到我們委員會來?\n434452\t439855\t有沒有交給檢調單位那可不可以提供到我們的委員會來我想這不是你能不能這是我召委到時候會不會安排第二個問題對不起您的意思就是有錄音所以我很明確的說你能不能明確的回答我有沒有錄音錄影\n461002\t484398\t你所謂的錄影,剛剛你講我們什麼救難什麼……2月14號有沒有錄音錄影?錄音有我們執管的這一部分的錄音全程,從你們發現了這個所謂的三五船隻,一直到落海,你們如何救人,這個所有的錄音過程都有嗎?\n485739\t494721\t好 謝謝本席會待會做一個結論請你們提供給委員會第二個第二個第二個第二個我要問您的是為什麼你們不公佈完整的無線電通連接我們沒有不公佈因為這個已經交給檢調了交給檢調那沒關係\n516329\t526954\t海岸巡防機關海運執法作業的規範第10條有要求要雷達監控,海巡署有沒有掌握事件相關的船隻的雷達軌跡圖?有或沒有?\n528243\t530344\t當我們去協商的時候有沒有提供這個錄音榜給對岸?\n555273\t556013\t高金素梅主席\n572358\t580021\t一公佈．給他們一看．他就知道當時的情形是怎麼樣．所以這個東西現在都是要有檢調來決定我不同意你的說法謝謝署長你的回應所以我要必須講的是今天很確定的是說有錄音還有雷達軌跡圖所以這兩個其實都有的\n597228\t624854\t那麼這兩個的回答,署長的回答是因為你們交給了檢調,對不對?所以你不能夠提供?我們沒有說不能提供,如果檢調同意我們提供,我們就提供。立法院有立法的願意支持,好不好?謝謝您,謝謝請您休息一下。我請問國防部的代表,因為今天我也請國防部來列席,也希望你們來表達一下你們的一些,一些這個意見。那請這個海軍司令部的副參謀長,詹副參謀長。\n630542\t654704\t謝謝 請把我的時間暫停一下好 請問一下自從海巡署強化了平時和戰時的轉換機制之後海巡署的禁案雷達情資是不是已經透過連線侵傳給海軍的連程戰係你們雙方其實是有互換情資 有沒有這個事情是 我們跟海巡署之間有支援協定的簽署 有情資的分享有嗎是\n655365\t664689\t好 我要再請問您兩岸因為這個金門撞船事件關係越來越緊張了這不僅僅只是海巡署的問題不僅僅是海委會的問題也不僅僅是陸委會的問題未來可能會關係到國防的問題所以請問海軍的連程戰係可不可以公佈你們所掌握的雷達軌跡圖然後跟我們的海巡單位的航軌\n683937\t685057\t高金素梅議員\n711563\t733577\t這個大程系統也就是現在的連程戰系你們的連程戰系已經跟海巡禁岸的雷達強制你們透過連線、勤船、海軍連程戰鬥系統了所以你不能告訴我說連這麼小的你們都看不到因為你們的訊息都已經互傳了\n735618\t758385\t各位委員報告,我們跟海巡署之間的目標的監控的部分,我們是有責任的分屬,那就像委員所指的沒有沒有沒有,那如果是如你所講的話,你的意思是說你監測你的一個系統,然後海巡署監測一個系統,是這樣的意思嗎?那如果是這樣的意思的話,為什麼你們在媒體上公佈的時候,你們不去做一些澄清呢?\n759105\t782031\t因為現在我所拿到的這個媒體上的公布是說你們跟海巡署已經形成了一個侵船系統所以侵船系統是有嗎?是有所以只要是海巡署搜尋到的所有的軌跡你們也都會有嗎?就連程系統的限制來講的話是連程系統上是沒有的\n783668\t807729\t你講沒有沒關係我覺得國防部還有這個今天我們的所有的這個在場的官員的回應我們至少今天離清楚了兩件事情一有錄音二有錄影三我們的國防部其實對這件事情來說你們不能夠排除在外因為兩岸因為兩岸情勢慢慢的升高了之後其實它危急的\n808430\t808790\t李慧琼議員\n828883\t829084\t高金素梅議員\n840197\t852306\t委員我還是要說明一下,剛剛我講有的錄音是我們的指管通信的錄音錄影是我們的雷達,您問我是有沒有雷達的累積圖另外您看到救難的那些畫面是我們的35頓艇,我們一共來了7艘艇\n860592\t860812\t高金素梅\n876949\t900886\t因為既然你要在這裡告訴我的話我要提醒一下我們立法院是有這個職權調閱所有的資料不要告訴我是國防機密也不要告訴我已經交給檢調了所以不提供給本委員會好不好謝謝我們一定提供謝謝我到時候會邀請你們提供什麼資料我會再告訴你們非常清楚的告訴你們我們一定配合\n","txt":"我還是接續一下陳雪生委員剛剛說的我不同意這個主委您剛剛的說法說忍耐也不同意這個邱泰山主委您說的忍耐今天如果我們有真相我們不需要忍耐\n我們今天有日映日影,我們不需要忍耐我們大可以在談判桌上把這些證據通通呈現出來然後讓對岸的人清楚知道不是我們撞死了兩條人命而是這當中的細節都非常的清楚而不是你們今天一昧的說把所有的資料\n高金素梅\n蘇巧慧委員\n我們的署長他不僅僅是海巡署的署長他也是政務副主委而且也是我們的專業的海軍也是我們的這個國安系統你曾經待過這麼多的地方所以我相信您也不樂見今天\n是的\n現在我要就幾個問題因為今天我聽到了幾個問題第一個問題為什麼會有那麼多的質疑就是第一個你們說海巡子事發過程非常短暫因為很忙救人沒有錄影收證\n然後你們又再改口說陸船舌形巨減然後不慎翻覆造成了4個人落海到有人質疑了你們之後你們又改口講了海巡署的艦艇是在高速追逐的狀況之下它的船身多次的接觸剛剛你又說\n其實兩岸之間的協同執法有非常多次而且你們是有密切聯繫而且我剛剛又聽到您剛剛說其實這件事情不是突發事件\n您是初三的時候大年初三也就是2月12號的時候其實你們就已經發現這所謂的三五船所以也就是說剛剛您的回應讓我們清楚知道不是突然在海上突然出現而是接到了所有的訊息之後你們按照SOP的流程來做一些\n你們應該準備的工作那現在我要問的第一個問題是依據海岸巡防激光海域執法作業的規範的第9條的規定我們的海巡人員執行職務的時候應該要依照規定穿著制服或者是出示證明文件並且要隨時照相錄音錄影或者是用其他修正的方式保全相關的事證\n以為移送主管機關查處的依據除了這個之外也是要保護我們的海巡弟兄對吧第10條第2項你也規定應該要與被檢的船舶保持距離然後要以雷達監控同時全程錄影照相存證\n並且要依照規定通報反映所以按照我們海岸巡防機關海域執法作業規範第9條第10條你們早就應該要準備這些東西了而不是對外的宣稱說你們沒有密錄器你們沒有打開錄音的這個裝置你們並沒有全程錄影而且您剛剛還準備了一個很大的照片\n這個人掉下去了海裡面你們有時間照相那就表示其實你們全程是有錄影的只是你們不願意拿出來所以你剛剛講很多次你們在做這些處理的時候其實是有碰撞\n好 請署長您回答我的問題你們有沒有全程錄音錄影如果沒有的話就是造成這一次的那麼多的問題的產生你們要不要道歉當然已經道歉了你們要不要懲處相關的人員你們有沒有一些行政程序的報告簡單回答好 謝謝昭偉給我這個機會說明\n第一個,出山報案的那艘船,我們不能確定它是不是三、五船舶,有可能是漁船,有可能是貨船,有可能是其他的船艇。好,謝謝署長您的回應,謝謝。我現在能不能再詢問您,您不能夠去確定它是不是三、五船舶,那麼你們應該會有通報記錄吧?是。\n而且這個通報紀錄就我了解就我了解其實你們在記者會是有公布的你們公布的通聯時間是12點41分然後距離你們修正後公布的案發時間是下午1點10分足足相差了30分鐘\n高金素梅議員\n不同時間,初三的報案是民眾打118跟我們報案好,那14號的呢?14號是我們的雷達監控有快速目標進入到我們的境線之處既然有了快速的這樣子的一個雷達訊息你們應該很清楚知道就開始有通報機制了吧?當然這些通報機制的錄音有沒有?都有能不能提供到我們委員會來?\n有沒有交給檢調單位那可不可以提供到我們的委員會來我想這不是你能不能這是我召委到時候會不會安排第二個問題對不起您的意思就是有錄音所以我很明確的說你能不能明確的回答我有沒有錄音錄影\n你所謂的錄影,剛剛你講我們什麼救難什麼……2月14號有沒有錄音錄影?錄音有我們執管的這一部分的錄音全程,從你們發現了這個所謂的三五船隻,一直到落海,你們如何救人,這個所有的錄音過程都有嗎?\n好 謝謝本席會待會做一個結論請你們提供給委員會第二個第二個第二個第二個我要問您的是為什麼你們不公佈完整的無線電通連接我們沒有不公佈因為這個已經交給檢調了交給檢調那沒關係\n海岸巡防機關海運執法作業的規範第10條有要求要雷達監控,海巡署有沒有掌握事件相關的船隻的雷達軌跡圖?有或沒有?\n當我們去協商的時候有沒有提供這個錄音榜給對岸?\n高金素梅主席\n一公佈．給他們一看．他就知道當時的情形是怎麼樣．所以這個東西現在都是要有檢調來決定我不同意你的說法謝謝署長你的回應所以我要必須講的是今天很確定的是說有錄音還有雷達軌跡圖所以這兩個其實都有的\n那麼這兩個的回答,署長的回答是因為你們交給了檢調,對不對?所以你不能夠提供?我們沒有說不能提供,如果檢調同意我們提供,我們就提供。立法院有立法的願意支持,好不好?謝謝您,謝謝請您休息一下。我請問國防部的代表,因為今天我也請國防部來列席,也希望你們來表達一下你們的一些,一些這個意見。那請這個海軍司令部的副參謀長,詹副參謀長。\n謝謝 請把我的時間暫停一下好 請問一下自從海巡署強化了平時和戰時的轉換機制之後海巡署的禁案雷達情資是不是已經透過連線侵傳給海軍的連程戰係你們雙方其實是有互換情資 有沒有這個事情是 我們跟海巡署之間有支援協定的簽署 有情資的分享有嗎是\n好 我要再請問您兩岸因為這個金門撞船事件關係越來越緊張了這不僅僅只是海巡署的問題不僅僅是海委會的問題也不僅僅是陸委會的問題未來可能會關係到國防的問題所以請問海軍的連程戰係可不可以公佈你們所掌握的雷達軌跡圖然後跟我們的海巡單位的航軌\n高金素梅議員\n這個大程系統也就是現在的連程戰系你們的連程戰系已經跟海巡禁岸的雷達強制你們透過連線、勤船、海軍連程戰鬥系統了所以你不能告訴我說連這麼小的你們都看不到因為你們的訊息都已經互傳了\n各位委員報告,我們跟海巡署之間的目標的監控的部分,我們是有責任的分屬,那就像委員所指的沒有沒有沒有,那如果是如你所講的話,你的意思是說你監測你的一個系統,然後海巡署監測一個系統,是這樣的意思嗎?那如果是這樣的意思的話,為什麼你們在媒體上公佈的時候,你們不去做一些澄清呢?\n因為現在我所拿到的這個媒體上的公布是說你們跟海巡署已經形成了一個侵船系統所以侵船系統是有嗎?是有所以只要是海巡署搜尋到的所有的軌跡你們也都會有嗎?就連程系統的限制來講的話是連程系統上是沒有的\n你講沒有沒關係我覺得國防部還有這個今天我們的所有的這個在場的官員的回應我們至少今天離清楚了兩件事情一有錄音二有錄影三我們的國防部其實對這件事情來說你們不能夠排除在外因為兩岸因為兩岸情勢慢慢的升高了之後其實它危急的\n李慧琼議員\n高金素梅議員\n委員我還是要說明一下,剛剛我講有的錄音是我們的指管通信的錄音錄影是我們的雷達,您問我是有沒有雷達的累積圖另外您看到救難的那些畫面是我們的35頓艇,我們一共來了7艘艇\n高金素梅\n因為既然你要在這裡告訴我的話我要提醒一下我們立法院是有這個職權調閱所有的資料不要告訴我是國防機密也不要告訴我已經交給檢調了所以不提供給本委員會好不好謝謝我們一定提供謝謝我到時候會邀請你們提供什麼資料我會再告訴你們非常清楚的告訴你們我們一定配合\n","vtt":"WEBVTT\n\n00:00.470 --> 00:14.947\n我還是接續一下陳雪生委員剛剛說的我不同意這個主委您剛剛的說法說忍耐也不同意這個邱泰山主委您說的忍耐今天如果我們有真相我們不需要忍耐\n\n00:15.808 --> 00:17.950\n我們今天有日映日影,我們不需要忍耐我們大可以在談判桌上把這些證據通通呈現出來然後讓對岸的人清楚知道不是我們撞死了兩條人命而是這當中的細節都非常的清楚而不是你們今天一昧的說把所有的資料\n\n00:39.065 --> 00:39.245\n高金素梅\n\n01:09.105 --> 01:09.405\n蘇巧慧委員\n\n01:31.107 --> 01:49.239\n我們的署長他不僅僅是海巡署的署長他也是政務副主委而且也是我們的專業的海軍也是我們的這個國安系統你曾經待過這麼多的地方所以我相信您也不樂見今天\n\n01:49.599 --> 01:49.639\n是的\n\n02:16.555 --> 02:18.996\n現在我要就幾個問題因為今天我聽到了幾個問題第一個問題為什麼會有那麼多的質疑就是第一個你們說海巡子事發過程非常短暫因為很忙救人沒有錄影收證\n\n02:34.801 --> 02:53.906\n然後你們又再改口說陸船舌形巨減然後不慎翻覆造成了4個人落海到有人質疑了你們之後你們又改口講了海巡署的艦艇是在高速追逐的狀況之下它的船身多次的接觸剛剛你又說\n\n02:56.727 --> 03:11.281\n其實兩岸之間的協同執法有非常多次而且你們是有密切聯繫而且我剛剛又聽到您剛剛說其實這件事情不是突發事件\n\n03:12.142 --> 03:38.473\n您是初三的時候大年初三也就是2月12號的時候其實你們就已經發現這所謂的三五船所以也就是說剛剛您的回應讓我們清楚知道不是突然在海上突然出現而是接到了所有的訊息之後你們按照SOP的流程來做一些\n\n03:40.874 --> 04:08.252\n你們應該準備的工作那現在我要問的第一個問題是依據海岸巡防激光海域執法作業的規範的第9條的規定我們的海巡人員執行職務的時候應該要依照規定穿著制服或者是出示證明文件並且要隨時照相錄音錄影或者是用其他修正的方式保全相關的事證\n\n04:09.173 --> 04:18.817\n以為移送主管機關查處的依據除了這個之外也是要保護我們的海巡弟兄對吧第10條第2項你也規定應該要與被檢的船舶保持距離然後要以雷達監控同時全程錄影照相存證\n\n04:33.802 --> 04:44.989\n並且要依照規定通報反映所以按照我們海岸巡防機關海域執法作業規範第9條第10條你們早就應該要準備這些東西了而不是對外的宣稱說你們沒有密錄器你們沒有打開錄音的這個裝置你們並沒有全程錄影而且您剛剛還準備了一個很大的照片\n\n05:00.558 --> 05:04.262\n這個人掉下去了海裡面你們有時間照相那就表示其實你們全程是有錄影的只是你們不願意拿出來所以你剛剛講很多次你們在做這些處理的時候其實是有碰撞\n\n05:19.156 --> 05:23.960\n好請署長您回答我的問題你們有沒有全程錄音錄影如果沒有的話就是造成這一次的那麼多的問題的產生你們要不要道歉當然已經道歉了你們要不要懲處相關的人員你們有沒有一些行政程序的報告簡單回答好謝謝昭偉給我這個機會說明\n\n05:45.239 --> 05:57.431\n第一個,出山報案的那艘船,我們不能確定它是不是三、五船舶,有可能是漁船,有可能是貨船,有可能是其他的船艇。好,謝謝署長您的回應,謝謝。我現在能不能再詢問您,您不能夠去確定它是不是三、五船舶,那麼你們應該會有通報記錄吧?是。\n\n06:09.642 --> 06:27.639\n而且這個通報紀錄就我了解就我了解其實你們在記者會是有公布的你們公布的通聯時間是12點41分然後距離你們修正後公布的案發時間是下午1點10分足足相差了30分鐘\n\n06:29.361 --> 06:29.561\n高金素梅議員\n\n06:45.200 --> 07:12.851\n不同時間,初三的報案是民眾打118跟我們報案好,那14號的呢?14號是我們的雷達監控有快速目標進入到我們的境線之處既然有了快速的這樣子的一個雷達訊息你們應該很清楚知道就開始有通報機制了吧?當然這些通報機制的錄音有沒有?都有能不能提供到我們委員會來?\n\n07:14.452 --> 07:19.855\n有沒有交給檢調單位那可不可以提供到我們的委員會來我想這不是你能不能這是我召委到時候會不會安排第二個問題對不起您的意思就是有錄音所以我很明確的說你能不能明確的回答我有沒有錄音錄影\n\n07:41.002 --> 08:04.398\n你所謂的錄影,剛剛你講我們什麼救難什麼……2月14號有沒有錄音錄影?錄音有我們執管的這一部分的錄音全程,從你們發現了這個所謂的三五船隻,一直到落海,你們如何救人,這個所有的錄音過程都有嗎?\n\n08:05.739 --> 08:14.721\n好謝謝本席會待會做一個結論請你們提供給委員會第二個第二個第二個第二個我要問您的是為什麼你們不公佈完整的無線電通連接我們沒有不公佈因為這個已經交給檢調了交給檢調那沒關係\n\n08:36.329 --> 08:46.954\n海岸巡防機關海運執法作業的規範第10條有要求要雷達監控,海巡署有沒有掌握事件相關的船隻的雷達軌跡圖?有或沒有?\n\n08:48.243 --> 08:50.344\n當我們去協商的時候有沒有提供這個錄音榜給對岸?\n\n09:15.273 --> 09:16.013\n高金素梅主席\n\n09:32.358 --> 09:40.021\n一公佈．給他們一看．他就知道當時的情形是怎麼樣．所以這個東西現在都是要有檢調來決定我不同意你的說法謝謝署長你的回應所以我要必須講的是今天很確定的是說有錄音還有雷達軌跡圖所以這兩個其實都有的\n\n09:57.228 --> 10:24.854\n那麼這兩個的回答,署長的回答是因為你們交給了檢調,對不對?所以你不能夠提供?我們沒有說不能提供,如果檢調同意我們提供,我們就提供。立法院有立法的願意支持,好不好?謝謝您,謝謝請您休息一下。我請問國防部的代表,因為今天我也請國防部來列席,也希望你們來表達一下你們的一些,一些這個意見。那請這個海軍司令部的副參謀長,詹副參謀長。\n\n10:30.542 --> 10:54.704\n謝謝請把我的時間暫停一下好請問一下自從海巡署強化了平時和戰時的轉換機制之後海巡署的禁案雷達情資是不是已經透過連線侵傳給海軍的連程戰係你們雙方其實是有互換情資有沒有這個事情是我們跟海巡署之間有支援協定的簽署有情資的分享有嗎是\n\n10:55.365 --> 11:04.689\n好我要再請問您兩岸因為這個金門撞船事件關係越來越緊張了這不僅僅只是海巡署的問題不僅僅是海委會的問題也不僅僅是陸委會的問題未來可能會關係到國防的問題所以請問海軍的連程戰係可不可以公佈你們所掌握的雷達軌跡圖然後跟我們的海巡單位的航軌\n\n11:23.937 --> 11:25.057\n高金素梅議員\n\n11:51.563 --> 12:13.577\n這個大程系統也就是現在的連程戰系你們的連程戰系已經跟海巡禁岸的雷達強制你們透過連線、勤船、海軍連程戰鬥系統了所以你不能告訴我說連這麼小的你們都看不到因為你們的訊息都已經互傳了\n\n12:15.618 --> 12:38.385\n各位委員報告,我們跟海巡署之間的目標的監控的部分,我們是有責任的分屬,那就像委員所指的沒有沒有沒有,那如果是如你所講的話,你的意思是說你監測你的一個系統,然後海巡署監測一個系統,是這樣的意思嗎?那如果是這樣的意思的話,為什麼你們在媒體上公佈的時候,你們不去做一些澄清呢?\n\n12:39.105 --> 13:02.031\n因為現在我所拿到的這個媒體上的公布是說你們跟海巡署已經形成了一個侵船系統所以侵船系統是有嗎?是有所以只要是海巡署搜尋到的所有的軌跡你們也都會有嗎?就連程系統的限制來講的話是連程系統上是沒有的\n\n13:03.668 --> 13:27.729\n你講沒有沒關係我覺得國防部還有這個今天我們的所有的這個在場的官員的回應我們至少今天離清楚了兩件事情一有錄音二有錄影三我們的國防部其實對這件事情來說你們不能夠排除在外因為兩岸因為兩岸情勢慢慢的升高了之後其實它危急的\n\n13:28.430 --> 13:28.790\n李慧琼議員\n\n13:48.883 --> 13:49.084\n高金素梅議員\n\n14:00.197 --> 14:12.306\n委員我還是要說明一下,剛剛我講有的錄音是我們的指管通信的錄音錄影是我們的雷達,您問我是有沒有雷達的累積圖另外您看到救難的那些畫面是我們的35頓艇,我們一共來了7艘艇\n\n14:20.592 --> 14:20.812\n高金素梅\n\n14:36.949 --> 15:00.886\n因為既然你要在這裡告訴我的話我要提醒一下我們立法院是有這個職權調閱所有的資料不要告訴我是國防機密也不要告訴我已經交給檢調了所以不提供給本委員會好不好謝謝我們一定提供謝謝我到時候會邀請你們提供什麼資料我會再告訴你們非常清楚的告訴你們我們一定配合\n\n","segments":[{"start":0.47,"end":14.947,"text":"我還是接續一下陳雪生委員剛剛說的我不同意這個主委您剛剛的說法說忍耐也不同意這個邱泰山主委您說的忍耐今天如果我們有真相我們不需要忍耐"},{"start":15.808,"end":17.95,"text":"我們今天有日映日影,我們不需要忍耐我們大可以在談判桌上把這些證據通通呈現出來然後讓對岸的人清楚知道不是我們撞死了兩條人命而是這當中的細節都非常的清楚而不是你們今天一昧的說把所有的資料"},{"start":39.065,"end":39.245,"text":"高金素梅"},{"start":69.105,"end":69.405,"text":"蘇巧慧委員"},{"start":91.107,"end":109.239,"text":"我們的署長他不僅僅是海巡署的署長他也是政務副主委而且也是我們的專業的海軍也是我們的這個國安系統你曾經待過這麼多的地方所以我相信您也不樂見今天"},{"start":109.599,"end":109.639,"text":"是的"},{"start":136.555,"end":138.996,"text":"現在我要就幾個問題因為今天我聽到了幾個問題第一個問題為什麼會有那麼多的質疑就是第一個你們說海巡子事發過程非常短暫因為很忙救人沒有錄影收證"},{"start":154.801,"end":173.906,"text":"然後你們又再改口說陸船舌形巨減然後不慎翻覆造成了4個人落海到有人質疑了你們之後你們又改口講了海巡署的艦艇是在高速追逐的狀況之下它的船身多次的接觸剛剛你又說"},{"start":176.727,"end":191.281,"text":"其實兩岸之間的協同執法有非常多次而且你們是有密切聯繫而且我剛剛又聽到您剛剛說其實這件事情不是突發事件"},{"start":192.142,"end":218.473,"text":"您是初三的時候大年初三也就是2月12號的時候其實你們就已經發現這所謂的三五船所以也就是說剛剛您的回應讓我們清楚知道不是突然在海上突然出現而是接到了所有的訊息之後你們按照SOP的流程來做一些"},{"start":220.874,"end":248.252,"text":"你們應該準備的工作那現在我要問的第一個問題是依據海岸巡防激光海域執法作業的規範的第9條的規定我們的海巡人員執行職務的時候應該要依照規定穿著制服或者是出示證明文件並且要隨時照相錄音錄影或者是用其他修正的方式保全相關的事證"},{"start":249.173,"end":258.817,"text":"以為移送主管機關查處的依據除了這個之外也是要保護我們的海巡弟兄對吧第10條第2項你也規定應該要與被檢的船舶保持距離然後要以雷達監控同時全程錄影照相存證"},{"start":273.802,"end":284.989,"text":"並且要依照規定通報反映所以按照我們海岸巡防機關海域執法作業規範第9條第10條你們早就應該要準備這些東西了而不是對外的宣稱說你們沒有密錄器你們沒有打開錄音的這個裝置你們並沒有全程錄影而且您剛剛還準備了一個很大的照片"},{"start":300.558,"end":304.262,"text":"這個人掉下去了海裡面你們有時間照相那就表示其實你們全程是有錄影的只是你們不願意拿出來所以你剛剛講很多次你們在做這些處理的時候其實是有碰撞"},{"start":319.156,"end":323.96,"text":"好 請署長您回答我的問題你們有沒有全程錄音錄影如果沒有的話就是造成這一次的那麼多的問題的產生你們要不要道歉當然已經道歉了你們要不要懲處相關的人員你們有沒有一些行政程序的報告簡單回答好 謝謝昭偉給我這個機會說明"},{"start":345.239,"end":357.431,"text":"第一個,出山報案的那艘船,我們不能確定它是不是三、五船舶,有可能是漁船,有可能是貨船,有可能是其他的船艇。好,謝謝署長您的回應,謝謝。我現在能不能再詢問您,您不能夠去確定它是不是三、五船舶,那麼你們應該會有通報記錄吧?是。"},{"start":369.642,"end":387.639,"text":"而且這個通報紀錄就我了解就我了解其實你們在記者會是有公布的你們公布的通聯時間是12點41分然後距離你們修正後公布的案發時間是下午1點10分足足相差了30分鐘"},{"start":389.361,"end":389.561,"text":"高金素梅議員"},{"start":405.2,"end":432.851,"text":"不同時間,初三的報案是民眾打118跟我們報案好,那14號的呢?14號是我們的雷達監控有快速目標進入到我們的境線之處既然有了快速的這樣子的一個雷達訊息你們應該很清楚知道就開始有通報機制了吧?當然這些通報機制的錄音有沒有?都有能不能提供到我們委員會來?"},{"start":434.452,"end":439.855,"text":"有沒有交給檢調單位那可不可以提供到我們的委員會來我想這不是你能不能這是我召委到時候會不會安排第二個問題對不起您的意思就是有錄音所以我很明確的說你能不能明確的回答我有沒有錄音錄影"},{"start":461.002,"end":484.398,"text":"你所謂的錄影,剛剛你講我們什麼救難什麼……2月14號有沒有錄音錄影?錄音有我們執管的這一部分的錄音全程,從你們發現了這個所謂的三五船隻,一直到落海,你們如何救人,這個所有的錄音過程都有嗎?"},{"start":485.739,"end":494.721,"text":"好 謝謝本席會待會做一個結論請你們提供給委員會第二個第二個第二個第二個我要問您的是為什麼你們不公佈完整的無線電通連接我們沒有不公佈因為這個已經交給檢調了交給檢調那沒關係"},{"start":516.329,"end":526.954,"text":"海岸巡防機關海運執法作業的規範第10條有要求要雷達監控,海巡署有沒有掌握事件相關的船隻的雷達軌跡圖?有或沒有?"},{"start":528.243,"end":530.344,"text":"當我們去協商的時候有沒有提供這個錄音榜給對岸?"},{"start":555.273,"end":556.013,"text":"高金素梅主席"},{"start":572.358,"end":580.021,"text":"一公佈．給他們一看．他就知道當時的情形是怎麼樣．所以這個東西現在都是要有檢調來決定我不同意你的說法謝謝署長你的回應所以我要必須講的是今天很確定的是說有錄音還有雷達軌跡圖所以這兩個其實都有的"},{"start":597.228,"end":624.854,"text":"那麼這兩個的回答,署長的回答是因為你們交給了檢調,對不對?所以你不能夠提供?我們沒有說不能提供,如果檢調同意我們提供,我們就提供。立法院有立法的願意支持,好不好?謝謝您,謝謝請您休息一下。我請問國防部的代表,因為今天我也請國防部來列席,也希望你們來表達一下你們的一些,一些這個意見。那請這個海軍司令部的副參謀長,詹副參謀長。"},{"start":630.542,"end":654.704,"text":"謝謝 請把我的時間暫停一下好 請問一下自從海巡署強化了平時和戰時的轉換機制之後海巡署的禁案雷達情資是不是已經透過連線侵傳給海軍的連程戰係你們雙方其實是有互換情資 有沒有這個事情是 我們跟海巡署之間有支援協定的簽署 有情資的分享有嗎是"},{"start":655.365,"end":664.689,"text":"好 我要再請問您兩岸因為這個金門撞船事件關係越來越緊張了這不僅僅只是海巡署的問題不僅僅是海委會的問題也不僅僅是陸委會的問題未來可能會關係到國防的問題所以請問海軍的連程戰係可不可以公佈你們所掌握的雷達軌跡圖然後跟我們的海巡單位的航軌"},{"start":683.937,"end":685.057,"text":"高金素梅議員"},{"start":711.563,"end":733.577,"text":"這個大程系統也就是現在的連程戰系你們的連程戰系已經跟海巡禁岸的雷達強制你們透過連線、勤船、海軍連程戰鬥系統了所以你不能告訴我說連這麼小的你們都看不到因為你們的訊息都已經互傳了"},{"start":735.618,"end":758.385,"text":"各位委員報告,我們跟海巡署之間的目標的監控的部分,我們是有責任的分屬,那就像委員所指的沒有沒有沒有,那如果是如你所講的話,你的意思是說你監測你的一個系統,然後海巡署監測一個系統,是這樣的意思嗎?那如果是這樣的意思的話,為什麼你們在媒體上公佈的時候,你們不去做一些澄清呢?"},{"start":759.105,"end":782.031,"text":"因為現在我所拿到的這個媒體上的公布是說你們跟海巡署已經形成了一個侵船系統所以侵船系統是有嗎?是有所以只要是海巡署搜尋到的所有的軌跡你們也都會有嗎?就連程系統的限制來講的話是連程系統上是沒有的"},{"start":783.668,"end":807.729,"text":"你講沒有沒關係我覺得國防部還有這個今天我們的所有的這個在場的官員的回應我們至少今天離清楚了兩件事情一有錄音二有錄影三我們的國防部其實對這件事情來說你們不能夠排除在外因為兩岸因為兩岸情勢慢慢的升高了之後其實它危急的"},{"start":808.43,"end":808.79,"text":"李慧琼議員"},{"start":828.883,"end":829.084,"text":"高金素梅議員"},{"start":840.197,"end":852.306,"text":"委員我還是要說明一下,剛剛我講有的錄音是我們的指管通信的錄音錄影是我們的雷達,您問我是有沒有雷達的累積圖另外您看到救難的那些畫面是我們的35頓艇,我們一共來了7艘艇"},{"start":860.592,"end":860.812,"text":"高金素梅"},{"start":876.949,"end":900.886,"text":"因為既然你要在這裡告訴我的話我要提醒一下我們立法院是有這個職權調閱所有的資料不要告訴我是國防機密也不要告訴我已經交給檢調了所以不提供給本委員會好不好謝謝我們一定提供謝謝我到時候會邀請你們提供什麼資料我會再告訴你們非常清楚的告訴你們我們一定配合"}]}}}}