{"id":149305,"url":"https://ivod.ly.gov.tw/Play/Clip/1M/149305","video_url":"https://ivod-lyvod.cdn.hinet.net/vod_1/_definst_/mp4:1MClips/ad9f873b941d2ddd1b012fca7756dacf4df0e2384efaf28bf8ba9b0039caa7a621a9fc2fa37df4075ea18f28b6918d91.mp4/playlist.m3u8","委員名稱":"牛煦庭","委員發言時間":"11:03:19 - 11:17:39","影片長度":"00:14:20","會議時間":"2024-03-04T09:00:00+08:00","會議名稱":"立法院第11屆第1會期內政委員會第2次全體委員會議（事由：邀請海洋委員會主任委員、大陸委員會主任委員、國防部及海軍司令部參謀長就「金門撞船案:翻船執法過程及後續處理」進行專題報告，並備質詢。）","meet":{"tmpMeeting":null,"title":"第11屆第1會期內政委員會第2次全體委員會議","term":11,"type":"委員會","sessionPeriod":1,"sessionTimes":2,"committees":[15],"id":"委員會-11-1-15-2"},"date":"2024-03-04","duration":860,"end_time":"2024-03-04T11:17:39+08:00","start_time":"2024-03-04T11:03:19+08:00","features":["ai-transcript","gazette"],"type":"Clip","gazette":{"lineno":586,"blocks":[["牛委員煦庭：（11時3分）謝謝主席。有請海委會主委。"],["主席：請管主委。"],["管主任委員碧玲：牛委員早！"],["牛委員煦庭：在開始質詢之前我們還是要把話講清楚，因為連給一份報告的內容都可以避重就輕，本席是覺得非常失望！這是我們很多新科委員第一次站上委員會發言的質詢臺，但前面就惹出這麼多的風波，我想海委會主委責無旁貸，我舉個例子來講，召委已經明確的排案，也把會議的名稱告訴大家，連外面不屬於內政委員會直接監管的國防部都願意尊重內政委員會的排案權力，直接去寫金門撞船案的報告，結果你們海委會自己在那邊更改名稱，還發臉書，只跟召委講，也不跟委員溝通，前面剛剛程序發言也有講，有其他例子都是協調過後，大家都願意各退一步，可是像你這樣子跳過去，還在臉書上直接寫的，也算是聞所未聞啦！陸委會也很油條，就乾脆寫這就是個會議，也不寫標題，反正方法總是很多啦！我只是覺得國防部比你們更重視內政委員會這件事情，你們應該要好好回去檢討啦！"],["管主任委員碧玲：因為有海巡署的立場必須捍衛，請委員能夠支持。"],["牛委員煦庭：你講得真好啊！要開始我們的質詢就是因為要捍衛海巡的立場，我告訴你，在場每一個立法委員都非常支持基層依法行政，這件事情沒有人質疑……"],["管主任委員碧玲：但是撞船事件對他們來講……"],["牛委員煦庭：我還沒有請你回答，我會給你時間，好不好？主委，你先聽我把話講完。","為什麼我們都講要支持執法？這就是因為我們要支持基層依法行政，所以今天才要排這個專案報告，我第一個要請問主委的問題是，我們現在每一次這些爭議的海域有那麼多的船隻進進出出，請問平常海巡在執法的時候是以驅離為原則，還是以登船檢查為原則？請主委回答。"],["管主任委員碧玲：跟委員報告，我今天最新的資料沒有在手中，但是根據事發當天我們今年驅離213艘才扣留了4艘，驅離213艘扣留的才只有4艘，我想委員從這個數字可以知道……"],["牛委員煦庭：我跟你講……"],["管主任委員碧玲：執法有執法的依法行政種種規定……"],["牛委員煦庭：有依法行政的界限……"],["管主任委員碧玲：是，沒錯。"],["牛委員煦庭：所以我現在就要問你，在這邊把話講清楚，什麼時候要驅離？什麼時候要上船登檢？有沒有SOP？"],["管主任委員碧玲：三無是絕對扣留，三無是法有明文規定，兩岸人民關係條例明文規定，三無船、無名船，百分之百我們就是一定要經過登檢以後處理……"],["牛委員煦庭：好，我們把話講清楚，當然，既然是要登船、要扣留，對不對？所以就越追越近了，是不是？當初的狀況就是這樣，是不是？"],["管主任委員碧玲：登檢的過程就是一個不斷調整靠近、調整靠近、持續會有碰觸的過程，委員，我們的同仁在那種過程中跳上船是有可能被夾到的……"],["牛委員煦庭：沒錯嘛！"],["管主任委員碧玲：我們的同仁還三根指頭被夾斷，我們的同仁……"],["牛委員煦庭：三根指頭被夾斷……"],["管主任委員碧玲：我們的同仁一直受傷……"],["牛委員煦庭：在這件事情上？"],["管主任委員碧玲：不是，在所有登檢的事件當中……"],["牛委員煦庭：喔！你要講清楚耶！我告訴……"],["管主任委員碧玲：我們有很多這樣的傷痕在身上……"],["牛委員煦庭：主委，在國際海巡的執法慣例上，通常如果要停船受檢，當然就會比較有衝突性，也比較有危險性，甚至很多地方會做失能性射擊，甚至考慮擊沉，碰撞其實是這個執法的替代方案……"],["管主任委員碧玲：我們沒有……"],["牛委員煦庭：我還沒有問你……"],["管主任委員碧玲：是。"],["牛委員煦庭：你不要再這樣，這很過分，好不好？所以我們用靠近的方式，有的時候可能會有碰撞，本來就是在所難免的事情，對不對？"],["管主任委員碧玲：是。"],["牛委員煦庭：是，對不對？我跟你講，我們今天把這個話講清楚就是因為我們無意要指責基層，但是總要知道真相，你要先知道真相，才能尋求善了，所以剛剛很多委員都很關心有沒有密錄器，我告訴你，有沒有密錄器影響的是什麼？影響是什麼？沒有密錄器的話，會影響什麼？會造成什麼後果？"],["管主任委員碧玲：我們會比較迅速地對於案情有比較多的瞭解，這一點我們痛加檢討，而且也成立了小組，在未來如何確實落實的部分還有整個過程我們都會做全盤的檢討。"],["牛委員煦庭：我告訴主委，108年大概也是在這裡開會，雖然那時候本席還不是立法委員，但那個時候大概也是因為海巡執法的關係，內政委員會就作成決議，2個月以內要研議處理，讓大家都有密錄器。108年就講要把這個品質提升起來，到了現在還會發生這樣的事，然後完全沒有畫面，主委，我告訴你，沒有密錄器、沒有畫面影響的就是基層的權益啊！因為我們現在連話都講不清楚，連話都講不清楚的時候，我們怎麼幫基層執法人員講話？"],["管主任委員碧玲：這確實是保護雙方，所以我們會痛加檢討……"],["牛委員煦庭：你現在講痛加檢討，現在就是痛加檢討，我痛加檢討、我承受指責，現在臺灣的政治這麼好搞就對了！在整件事情上，包含……"],["管主任委員碧玲：這不好搞，這非常不好搞。"],["牛委員煦庭：主委今天稍早開會的時候還講我一肩扛起，這話講得多好聽啊！現在只要被罵，就講一肩扛起，這麼簡單嗎？請問這件事情發生到現在誰負責了？負起了什麼政治責任？付出了什麼代價？請你回答。"],["管主任委員碧玲：報告委員，海巡依法行政取締三無船舶，造成意外沒有他們的過失，剛剛署長所說三大原因，委員，我們沒有對外……"],["牛委員煦庭：你不要帶風向。"],["管主任委員碧玲：不是，我如果要帶風向，早就在社會上把這些事情說出去了，為什麼忍辱負重到今天不得不說……"],["牛委員煦庭：還忍辱負重，真厲害！"],["管主任委員碧玲：為什麼到今天不得不說？過去為什麼不說……"],["牛委員煦庭：我為什麼講你在帶風向你知道嗎？因為我沒有在講基層……"],["管主任委員碧玲：我一直告訴他們這是片面之詞，要檢察官去還原……"],["牛委員煦庭：我講的是你的管理失當嘛！我講你的管理失當，我講你該上去的裝備沒有準時上去嘛！你的管理上是你高層的事情……"],["管主任委員碧玲：標配在船上，標配在船上……"],["牛委員煦庭：不是基層的事情嘛！出事的時候……"],["管主任委員碧玲：委員，標配在船上。"],["牛委員煦庭：出事的時候，管理階層就要檢討，就要有人負起政治責任，現在問題之所以大家講成這樣就是因為沒有人負起政治責任嘛！大家期待你知所進退、有所作為也是因為這樣嘛！然後你今天永遠都把基層……"],["管主任委員碧玲：因為沒有錄影的事情……"],["牛委員煦庭：推到第一線去擋子彈……"],["管主任委員碧玲：沒有，我從來保護他們到現在……"],["牛委員煦庭：這就是今天大家對這件事情這麼不愉快的原因嘛！"],["管主任委員碧玲：本席從來保護他們到現在，此時此刻我還在保護他們。"],["牛委員煦庭：還本席耶！換位置了都搞不清楚。","進第二部分，根據海巡署召開的海巡署金門0214專案小組記者會，第九海巡隊副隊長陳建文報告時坦承執法期間兩船有碰撞；金門地檢署2月20號對外說明，主任檢察官施家榮表示，訊問金門海巡隊，執勤隊員表示，當時雙方高速行駛，對方不斷蛇行，雙方不慎發生碰撞，大陸快艇當場翻覆。我剛剛前面已經幫你講了，你竟然說，因為我不要射擊，我以碰撞的方式處理，這是一種選擇，所以碰撞是執法的常態。地檢署也講，你們自己海巡裡面的人也講，那就有嘛！有就是有。"],["管主任委員碧玲：碰撞和撞船不一樣。"],["牛委員煦庭：碰撞跟撞船不一樣？"],["管主任委員碧玲：是，我們請專業來說明好嗎？碰撞和撞船是不是一樣，我們能不能讓我們的分署長用最專業的角度來跟委員……"],["牛委員煦庭：我跟你講，你今天想要在這邊鬼扯這個我沒有意見，但是……"],["管主任委員碧玲：我沒有鬼扯，我是請分署長來說明專業的……"],["牛委員煦庭：你現在最大的問題，我現在檢討你整件事情的處遇，第一時間你講它蛇行翻覆，然後後來被人家這樣一講出來之後，你就講有碰撞，你現在在那邊爭執什麼叫撞船、什麼叫碰撞，你是很無聊的，社會大眾要知道的是到底有沒有碰在一起，有沒有碰撞，結論就是有。現在到底有或沒有？你回答我這個就好了。"],["管主任委員碧玲：我們請分署長來回答。"],["廖分署長德成：報告委員，我們在執行登檢的過程裡面，兩船會擦撞、碰撞這個都是一個常態，至於說碰撞的大小會不會影響到它翻覆的狀況，這個由地檢署在做一個確認。我們在登檢，碰撞、擦撞都是常態。"],["牛委員煦庭：你現在講常態，所以就回到我剛剛講的……"],["管主任委員碧玲：所以委員，當我第一時間看到海巡對外做那樣的說明的時候，事後我瞭解，在海巡的語言裡面，登檢就是包含一個持續碰撞的過程，所以他們用那樣的語言來講的時候，事實上跟社會溝通的語言不一樣。"],["牛委員煦庭：所以你在這邊就等於是承認有碰撞嘛！對不對？現在就有碰撞嘛！"],["管主任委員碧玲：那是一個持續碰觸的過程……"],["牛委員煦庭：我剛剛只問你有或沒有而已，就有嘛！"],["管主任委員碧玲：那確實是一個持續碰觸的過程……"],["牛委員煦庭：持續碰撞的狀態，所以就有嘛！"],["管主任委員碧玲：是。"],["牛委員煦庭：那你前面為什麼不講呢？"],["管主任委員碧玲：這個東西登檢是必然……"],["牛委員煦庭：你前面為什麼不講呢？"],["管主任委員碧玲：這個海巡第一時間沒有講，所以我替他們來講的時候，委員，當碰撞的事實要說明，又沒有錄影帶，要一起說明的時候，那絕對是一個跟社會溝通的問題。"],["牛委員煦庭：主委，你知道社會大眾現在怎麼解釋這件事嗎？一開始說他們蛇行翻覆，所以我們的執法人員幹得好，後來講到完蛋有碰撞，可能這事有爭議，後來你最近因為專案報告的名稱……"],["管主任委員碧玲：登檢蛇行是……"],["牛委員煦庭：你又要堅持沒有碰撞，然後你現在在這裡回答我的時候你又說有碰撞，這叫顛三倒四。"],["管主任委員碧玲：我沒有堅持沒有碰撞過，對案情我從頭到尾都說……"],["牛委員煦庭：這個事情我看還有得講。"],["管主任委員碧玲：海巡署的說法我必須不偏不倚、大公無私讓檢察官去還原事實。"],["牛委員煦庭：光是你的反反覆覆就讓這件事情更加複雜。"],["管主任委員碧玲：我沒有反反覆覆，我被說成反反覆覆，我從來沒有反反覆覆……"],["牛委員煦庭：處理這些事情中間的顛三倒四、進退失據……"],["管主任委員碧玲：我從來沒有……"],["牛委員煦庭：就是這件事情可能上升到政治衝突的最重要的原因嘛！"],["管主任委員碧玲：委員，認知作戰加諸於我身，我承受下來，但是我是不接受的。"],["牛委員煦庭：主席，對不起，時間暫停一下。"],["主席：我們請主委對相關委員的質詢再回應好不好？"],["管主任委員碧玲：一個三大報之一的社論都還說我指示海巡署可以直接對海警船開火……"],["主席：我們時間暫停一下……"],["管主任委員碧玲：認知作戰做到這種地步，我是不接受的，我承受，連一個報紙的社論都可以造謠到這種地步，說我下令海巡署可以對海警船直接開火……"],["主席：主委，麻煩你一下，你這些想要說的話在你個人的臉書說好不好？今天我們所有的委員沒有質詢你這個部分，謝謝。請你就不要再回答問題，因為牛委員沒有問你這個問題。"],["牛委員煦庭：主委，尊重一下立法委員的質詢權，前面已經不尊重召委的排案權，現在又要不尊重立法委員的質詢權……"],["管主任委員碧玲：沒有，我……"],["牛委員煦庭：這裡是你答詢的場合，不是你開記者會的場合，你搞清楚啊！"],["管主任委員碧玲：但是錯誤的指責我一定要澄清……"],["牛委員煦庭：第三部分我要接著問……"],["管主任委員碧玲：這樣其實才是三權分立的……"],["牛委員煦庭：第三部分我要接著問，這個也要請一下陸委會主委，可能要一起說明，麻煩你，謝謝。"],["主席：好，請邱主委。"],["牛委員煦庭：現在的狀況是中共國臺辦發表立場，直接宣示禁止水域不存在，它不是嘴巴講而已，現在人家海警船也進來了，進來之後愛怎麼搞就怎麼搞，我們看巡航軌跡感覺還蠻順暢的，就好像照它規劃的這樣繞了好幾圈一樣，今天來一下，明天又來一下，好像非常態變成常態，本席非常擔心。我們都支持海巡執法，但我們也支持執法不分對象，剛剛你講針對三無魚船我們甚至要登船臨檢，這是你的SOP，我們當然覺得沒有問題，我們剛剛在討論的是你在處理整件事情的時候進退失據，讓一件意外變成政治風暴，這是高層、這是你們這些管理單位無能的地方。現在我們要看的是接下來可能會發生什麼事，現在狀況是海警船登堂入室，先請管主委再回答一下，請問海巡是要處理，還是不處理？"],["管主任委員碧玲：委員，我建議這個問題由署長來回答，我們要知道的是最專業、最真實的事，為什麼不讓署長回答呢？"],["牛委員煦庭：我時間有限，我給你30秒，請。"],["主席：我們有請署長，謝謝。"],["周副主任委員美伍：非常感謝委員給我這個機會說明，我就單就這個問題來回答。"],["牛委員煦庭：對，海警你要怎麼辦？"],["周副主任委員美伍：海警船，目前從2月14號發生這件事情以後，他們每天刻意的在白天平均有6到7艘，曾經有高達過11艘，不僅海警船，還有海監船，還有公務船，還有海巡船，所以他們的意圖就是圍繞著金門。"],["牛委員煦庭：對，它進來了，處理不處理？要不要處理？"],["周副主任委員美伍：我們都在處理，每一次都有處理。"],["牛委員煦庭：怎麼處理？有沒有驅離？"],["周副主任委員美伍：我們有驅離。"],["牛委員煦庭：為什麼沒有影響他們的航跡？"],["周副主任委員美伍：我們當然有，我們的船就是一直跟他對應著，我們在我們的禁止水域內對他們不斷地廣播跟驅離，這些我都可以……"],["牛委員煦庭：因為時間有限啦！署長，你把處遇的方式跟結果用書面的方式回復本席。"],["周副主任委員美伍：沒有問題。"],["牛委員煦庭：因為我們應該還會再討論這一題。"],["周副主任委員美伍：會，我會給你。"],["牛委員煦庭：我把最後25秒留給陸委會主委，一樣，我們要求書面。"],["主席：請邱主委。"],["牛委員煦庭：禁止跟限制水域是不是兩岸雙方的默契？"],["邱主任委員太三：基本上從81年10月國防部根據兩岸條例公布了禁限制水域，這個禁限制水域30幾年來雙方都有這樣的默契。"],["牛委員煦庭：有默契嘛！出現歧異的時候怎麼處理？有沒有處遇方式？"],["邱主任委員太三：基本上我想海巡單位都有它的SOP……"],["牛委員煦庭：沒有，我講的是兩岸之間有沒有做協商跟討論？"],["邱主任委員太三：他們都有一個處理的機制……"],["牛委員煦庭：署長，不要打斷，我剛剛已經跟你講你書面回答就好。陸委會的最後一個問題，如果我們現在講說遇到這樣子的問題，海巡署長在你後面，請問你是支持他強力執法，還是你要呼籲他冷靜一點？"],["邱主任委員太三：我想當然支持他執法。"],["牛委員煦庭：強力執法？"],["邱主任委員太三：但是不是強力……"],["牛委員煦庭：是不是強力？"],["邱主任委員太三：本來狀況不同啊！因為我們現在沒有辦法假設到底是三無船，還是一般的漁船，還是貨輪……"],["牛委員煦庭：沒有，我講海警船，中共的船。"],["邱主任委員太三：那我想他們都有SOP，我們的國軍也有……"],["牛委員煦庭：變成有SOP。"],["邱主任委員太三：對，他們有SOP，所有的狀況不同，我們沒有辦法現在一一回答。"],["牛委員煦庭：因為時間有限嘛！"],["邱主任委員太三：剛剛按照情況來處理……"],["牛委員煦庭：主委，你剛剛有聽清楚我的問題嗎？一個是雙方默契，第二，認知出現歧異的時候是怎麼處理，兩岸現在遇到這樣的狀況，你的危機處理是什麼？第三個是執法，剛剛的這三個問題，一樣請你會後用書面回復本席，可以嗎？"],["邱主任委員太三：好，可以，我請海巡彙整。"],["牛委員煦庭：主委，前期未充分準備，中期處理進退失據，第三，事後方向不明確，該有人負起政治責任，謝謝。"],["主席：非常謝謝牛煦庭委員的質詢，也謝謝所有官員的回答，請不要忘記，剛剛委員所提的，你們有些書面報告請你們儘速提到本委員會，然後給我們所有本委員會的委員來參考，謝謝。","繼續請徐欣瑩委員，但是跟委員報告一下，待會王美惠委員詢答完之後，我們休息5分鐘讓大家上洗手間，謝謝。有請欣瑩委員。"]],"agenda":{"page_end":328,"meet_id":"委員會-11-1-15-2","speakers":["高金素梅","傅崐萁","陳雪生","王美惠","洪孟楷","蘇巧慧","李柏毅","麥玉珍","徐欣瑩","丁學忠","許宇甄","張智倫","黃建賓","牛煦庭","張宏陸","黃捷","吳琪銘","沈伯洋","羅智強","賴士葆","吳沛憶","李坤城","鄭天財Sra 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{\"start\": 56.804, \"end\": 77.971, \"text\": \"也不願意跳過也不願意只跟召委講也不跟委員溝通前面剛剛程旭發言有講其他有例子那都是協調過後大家都願意各退一步可是像你這樣子跳過去還在臉書上直接寫的也算是聞所未聞啊入委會也很油條啊就乾脆寫反正這就是個會議然後也不寫標題反正方法總是很多啦\", \"words\": [{\"word\": \"也\", \"start\": 56.804, \"end\": 56.944, \"score\": 0.97}, {\"word\": \"不\", \"start\": 56.944, \"end\": 57.044, \"score\": 0.989}, {\"word\": \"願\"}, {\"word\": \"意\", \"start\": 57.044, \"end\": 57.284, \"score\": 0.755}, {\"word\": \"跳\", \"start\": 57.284, \"end\": 57.784, \"score\": 0.824}, {\"word\": \"過\"}, {\"word\": \"也\", \"start\": 57.784, \"end\": 57.904, \"score\": 0.88}, {\"word\": \"不\", \"start\": 57.904, \"end\": 58.004, \"score\": 0.918}, {\"word\": \"願\"}, {\"word\": \"意\", \"start\": 58.004, \"end\": 58.184, \"score\": 0.849}, {\"word\": \"只\", \"start\": 58.184, \"end\": 58.325, \"score\": 0.754}, {\"word\": \"跟\", \"start\": 58.325, \"end\": 58.505, \"score\": 0.984}, {\"word\": \"召\", \"start\": 58.505, \"end\": 58.685, \"score\": 0.879}, {\"word\": \"委\", \"start\": 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00:00:37,449\n因為在開始質詢之前我們還是要把話講清楚因為這個連給一份報告的內容都可以避重就輕這本席就覺得非常失望這是我們很多新科委員第一次站上委員會發言的質詢台但前面就惹出這麼多的風波那我想海洋委員會主委我想責無旁貸我舉個例子來講\n\n3\n00:00:38,670 --> 00:00:54,662\n趙委已經明確的排案也把會議的名稱告訴大家連外面不屬於內政委員會直接監管的國防部都願意尊重內政委員會的排案權利直接去寫金門撞船案的報告結果你們自己一個海委會自己在那邊更改名稱還發臉書\n\n4\n00:00:56,804 --> 00:01:17,971\n也不願意跳過也不願意只跟召委講也不跟委員溝通前面剛剛程旭發言有講其他有例子那都是協調過後大家都願意各退一步可是像你這樣子跳過去還在臉書上直接寫的也算是聞所未聞啊入委會也很油條啊就乾脆寫反正這就是個會議然後也不寫標題反正方法總是很多啦\n\n5\n00:01:18,331 --> 00:01:40,839\n我只是覺得國防部比你們更重視內政委員會這件事情你們應該好好回去檢討因為有海巡署的立場必須捍衛請委員能夠支持你講得真好啊不要開始我們的質詢啦就是因為要捍衛海巡的立場啊我告訴你在場每一個立法委員都非常支持基層依法行政這件事情沒有人質疑我還沒有問我還沒有請你回答我會給你時間啦好不好主委你先聽我把話講完\n\n6\n00:01:45,120 --> 00:02:08,633\n為什麼我們都講說要支持執法這就是因為我們要支持基層依法行政所以今天才要排這個專案報告我第一個要請問這個主委的問題是我們每一次現在有這些爭議的海域對不對有那麼多的船隻進進出出那請問平常海巡在執法的時候是以驅離為原則還是以登船這個檢查為原則請主委回答\n\n7\n00:02:09,173 --> 00:02:37,839\n跟委員報告我今天的最新的資料沒有在手中但是根據事發當天我們今年驅離213艘才扣留了4艘驅離213艘扣留的才只有4艘這個數字我想委員從這個數字可以知道執法有執法的依法行政的總統規定所以我現在就要問你在這邊把話講清楚什麼時候要驅離什麼時候要上船登艦\n\n8\n00:02:38,499 --> 00:02:55,802\n三無絕對扣留三無是法有明文規定兩岸人民關係條例明文規定三無船無名船百分之百我們就是一定要經過當屆以後處理那當然嘛既然是要登船要扣留對不對所以就越追越近了是不是那天當初的狀況就是這樣是不是\n\n9\n00:02:56,963 --> 00:02:59,226\n我們的同仁在那種過程中跳上船是有可能被夾到的我們的同仁還三根指頭被夾斷\n\n10\n00:03:13,247 --> 00:03:37,365\n我們的同仁已經受傷不是在所有登船的事件當中我們有很多的這樣的一個傷痕在身上在國際海巡的執法慣例上通常啦如果要這個停船受檢那當然就會比較有衝突性也比較有危險性嘛甚至很多地方會做失能性射擊甚至考慮集塵那麼碰撞喔其實是這個執法的替代方法我還沒有問你你不要再這樣這很過分好不好\n\n11\n00:03:39,386 --> 00:04:02,262\n所以我們用靠近的方式有的時候可能會有碰撞本來就是在所難免的事情嘛對不對是嘛對不對我跟你講我們今天把這話講清楚就是因為我們沒有無意要指責基層啊但是總要知道真相嘛你要先知道真相才能尋求善了所以剛剛很多委員都很關心有沒有密錄器我告訴你有沒有密錄器影響的是什麼\n\n12\n00:04:03,804 --> 00:04:19,046\n影響是什麼?沒有密錄器的話會影響什麼?會造成什麼後果?我們會比較迅速的對於案情有比較多的了解這一點我們痛加檢討而且也成立了小組在未來如何確實的落實的部分還有整個過程我們都會做全盤的檢討\n\n13\n00:04:20,270 --> 00:04:45,079\n我告訴主委108年大概也是在這裡開會雖然那時候本席還不是立法委員但那個時候大概也是因為海巡執法的關係內政委員會就做成決議兩個月以內要研議要處理讓大家都有密錄器108年就要講說把這個品質提升起來到了現在還會發生這樣的事情然後完全沒有畫面主委我告訴你沒有密錄器沒有畫面影響的就是基層的權益因為我們現在連話都講不清楚\n\n14\n00:04:48,640 --> 00:05:16,844\n連話都講不清楚的時候我們怎麼幫基層執法人員講話這確實是保護雙方所以我們會痛加減討所以你現在講痛加減討現在就是痛加減討我痛加減討我承受指責現在台灣政治這麼好搞就對了在整件事情上包含主委今天稍早開會的時候在講我一肩扛起這話講得多好聽啊現在講一肩扛起只要被罵就叫一肩扛起這麼簡單嗎請問這件事情發生到現在誰負責了負起了什麼政治責任付出了什麼代價請你回答\n\n15\n00:05:19,295 --> 00:05:28,327\n海巡依法行政取締三無傳播,造成意外沒有他們的過失。剛剛署長所說三大原因。\n\n16\n00:05:32,793 --> 00:05:34,154\n我講的是你的管理示範嘛\n\n17\n00:05:49,060 --> 00:06:11,126\n我講你的管理失當我講你該上去的裝備沒有準時上去嘛你的管理失當是高層的事情不是基本的事情嘛出事的時候管理階層就要檢討就要有人負起政治責任現在問題之所以大家講成這樣就是因為沒有人負起政治責任嘛大家期待你之所進退有所作為也是因為這樣嘛\n\n18\n00:06:12,206 --> 00:06:13,287\n本席從來保護他們到現在,此時此刻我還在保護他們。\n\n19\n00:06:28,072 --> 00:06:50,224\n根據海巡署召開的海巡署金門2014專案小組記者會,第9號海巡隊副隊長陳建文報告是坦承執法期間兩船有碰撞。金門地檢署2月20日對外說明,主任檢察官施嘉榮表示,詢問金門海巡隊執行隊員表示,張獅雙方高速行駛,退方不斷蛇行,雙方不慎發生碰撞,大陸快艇當場翻覆。\n\n20\n00:06:51,084 --> 00:07:07,224\n我剛剛前面已經幫你講了你既然說因為我不要涉及我以碰撞的方式處理這是一種選擇所以碰撞是執法的常態地檢署也講你們自己海巡裡面的人也講那就有嘛有就是有碰撞跟撞船不一樣碰撞跟撞船不一樣我們請專業來說明好嗎\n\n21\n00:07:08,866 --> 00:07:23,717\n碰撞和撞船是不是一樣我們能不能讓我們的分署長用最專業的角度你今天想要在這邊鬼扯這個我沒有意見我是請分署長要來說明你現在最大的問題我現在在檢討你整件事情的處遇你第一時間你講他蛇行蕃婦\n\n22\n00:07:25,518 --> 00:07:25,839\n分署長回答\n\n23\n00:07:43,311 --> 00:07:59,264\n發委員我們在執行登檢的過程裡面兩船會擦撞碰撞這個都是一個常態至於說碰撞的大小會不會影響到它翻覆的狀況這個由地檢署再做一個確認那我們在登檢這個碰撞擦撞這個都是一個常態\n\n24\n00:08:00,385 --> 00:08:02,446\n所以你在這邊等於是承認有碰撞嗎?\n\n25\n00:08:24,312 --> 00:08:25,172\n這個海巡第一時間沒有講所以我替他們來講的時候\n\n26\n00:08:40,077 --> 00:08:57,287\n委員當碰撞的事實要說明又沒有錄影帶要一起說明的時候主委啊那絕對是一個跟社會溝通的問題你知道社會大眾現在怎麼解釋這件事嗎一開始說他們蛇行蕃赴所以我們的執法院幹好一開始後來講到哇完蛋了有碰撞可能這次有爭議\n\n27\n00:08:57,907 --> 00:09:05,770\n後來你最近因為專案報告的名稱你又要堅持沒有碰撞然後你現在在這裡回答我的時候你又說有碰撞這叫顛三倒四啦各位我從來沒有對案情對案情我從頭到尾都說這個事情我剛還有得講啦我必須不偏不倚大公無私讓檢察官去還原實施光是你的反反復復啊就讓這件事情更加複雜\n\n28\n00:09:20,275 --> 00:09:24,536\n主席,對不起,時間暫停一下。好,我們請主委的對相關的委員會執行在周一,好不好?好,謝謝,我們暫停暫停委員的這個,我們時間暫停一下。\n\n29\n00:09:49,924 --> 00:10:02,347\n我承受,連一個報紙的社論都可以造謠到這種地步,說我下令海巡署可以對海警船直接開火。這是大報社會,我要說的,但我在臉書說也會被,也會被淘汰啊。\n\n30\n00:10:10,249 --> 00:10:27,623\n請你就不要再回答問題,因為牛委員沒有問你這個問題,謝謝尊重一下立法委員的諮詢權啦,前面已經不尊重趙薇的排案權,現在又要不尊重立法委員的諮詢權這裡是你答詢的場合,不是你開記者會的場合,你搞清楚啊第三部分我要接著問啦第三部分我要接著問啦現在,我這個也要請一下陸委會主委,可能要一起說明好不好,麻煩你,謝謝請崔主委\n\n31\n00:10:36,821 --> 00:11:01,488\n現在狀況中共國台辦發表立場啦直接宣誓說這個禁止水域不存在他不是嘴巴講而已啊現在人家海警船也進來啦進來的時候愛怎麼搞怎麼搞我們看那個巡航軌跡感覺還蠻順暢的就好像照他規劃的這樣子繞了好幾圈一樣今天來一下明天又來一下好像非常態變成常態本席非常擔心啦我們都支持海巡執法\n\n32\n00:11:02,068 --> 00:11:26,935\n但我們也支持執法不分對象剛剛你講針對山無漁船對不對我們這甚至要登船臨檢這是你的SOP我們當然覺得沒有問題對不對我們剛剛在討論的是你在處理整件事情的時候進退失據讓一件意外變成政治風暴這是高層這是你們在管理單位無能的地方現在我們要看的是接下來可能會發生什麼事啊現在狀況是海警船登堂入室啊\n\n33\n00:11:27,415 --> 00:11:31,940\n請問問海巡先請管主委再回答一下海巡是要處理呢還是不處理委員我建議這個問題由署長來回答我們要知道的是最專業最真實的事為什麼不讓署長回答呢我時間有限我給你30秒請好我們有請署長謝謝\n\n34\n00:11:50,072 --> 00:12:19,373\n非常感謝委員給我這個機會說明我想你現在剛剛我就單就這個問題來回答對這個海警船你要怎麼辦海警船現在目前從2月14號以後發生這件事情以後他們每天刻意的在白天平均在6到7艘那曾經有高達過11艘不僅海警船還有海監船還有公務船還有海巡船所以他們的意圖就是圍繞著金門對他進來了處理不處理\n\n35\n00:12:19,933 --> 00:12:40,227\n我們都在處理每一次都有處理有沒有驅離我們有驅離為什麼沒有影響他們的航跡我們當然有我們的船就是一直跟他對應著我們在我們的禁止水域內對他們不斷的廣播跟驅離這些我都可以提查你把船域的方式跟結構出面的方式我可以提答沒有問題沒有問題因為我們應該還會再討論這題好不好會我會點擊把最後25秒留給陸委會主委一樣\n\n36\n00:12:44,290 --> 00:13:10,777\n我們要求書明這個禁止跟禁制水域是不是兩岸雙方的默契基本上從81年10月那國防部根據兩岸條例他公布了禁限制水域那這個禁限制水域30幾年來雙方都有這樣的有默契嘛對不對出現歧異的時候怎麼處理有沒有處理方式基本上我想海巡單位都有他的SOP沒有我講的是兩岸之間有沒有做協商跟討論\n\n37\n00:13:12,838 --> 00:13:26,359\n他們都有一個處理的基礎...主委喂!不是,署長你不要打斷我,我剛已經跟你講你書面就好,如果我們現在講說遇到這樣子的問題,海軍署長在你後面,請問你是支持他強力執法,還是你要呼籲他冷靜一點?\n\n38\n00:13:27,941 --> 00:13:45,554\n我想當然支持他執法但是是不是強力不是它本來狀況不同啊因為我們現在沒有辦法假設到底是珊瑚船還是一般的漁船還是貨船沒有我想海警船中共的船中共的船那我想他們都有SOP我們的國軍有SOP所有的狀況不同我們沒有辦法現在一一的\n\n39\n00:13:50,618 --> 00:14:17,965\n主委,你剛剛有聽清楚我的問題嗎?一個是,是不是雙方默契?第二,認知出現歧異的時候是怎麼處理?你跟兩岸,就現在遇到這樣的狀況,你的委屈處理是什麼?第三個是執法,剛剛有問你這三個,一樣我請你會後用書面回覆本席,可以嗎?主委,前期未充分準備,中期處理進退失據第三,事後方向不明確,該有人負起政治責任,謝謝\n\n","tsv":"start\tend\ttext\n69\t269\t主席主席\n18632\t37449\t因為在開始質詢之前我們還是要把話講清楚因為這個連給一份報告的內容都可以避重就輕這本席就覺得非常失望這是我們很多新科委員第一次站上委員會發言的質詢台但前面就惹出這麼多的風波那我想海洋委員會主委我想責無旁貸我舉個例子來講\n38670\t54662\t趙委已經明確的排案也把會議的名稱告訴大家連外面不屬於內政委員會直接監管的國防部都願意尊重內政委員會的排案權利直接去寫金門撞船案的報告結果你們自己一個海委會自己在那邊更改名稱還發臉書\n56804\t77971\t也不願意跳過也不願意只跟召委講也不跟委員溝通前面剛剛程旭發言有講其他有例子那都是協調過後大家都願意各退一步可是像你這樣子跳過去還在臉書上直接寫的也算是聞所未聞啊入委會也很油條啊就乾脆寫反正這就是個會議然後也不寫標題反正方法總是很多啦\n78331\t100839\t我只是覺得國防部比你們更重視內政委員會這件事情你們應該好好回去檢討因為有海巡署的立場必須捍衛請委員能夠支持你講得真好啊不要開始我們的質詢啦就是因為要捍衛海巡的立場啊我告訴你在場每一個立法委員都非常支持基層依法行政這件事情沒有人質疑我還沒有問我還沒有請你回答我會給你時間啦好不好主委你先聽我把話講完\n105120\t128633\t為什麼我們都講說要支持執法這就是因為我們要支持基層依法行政所以今天才要排這個專案報告我第一個要請問這個主委的問題是我們每一次現在有這些爭議的海域對不對有那麼多的船隻進進出出那請問平常海巡在執法的時候是以驅離為原則還是以登船這個檢查為原則請主委回答\n129173\t157839\t跟委員報告我今天的最新的資料沒有在手中但是根據事發當天我們今年驅離213艘才扣留了4艘驅離213艘扣留的才只有4艘這個數字我想委員從這個數字可以知道執法有執法的依法行政的總統規定所以我現在就要問你在這邊把話講清楚什麼時候要驅離什麼時候要上船登艦\n158499\t175802\t三無絕對扣留三無是法有明文規定兩岸人民關係條例明文規定三無船無名船百分之百我們就是一定要經過當屆以後處理那當然嘛既然是要登船要扣留對不對所以就越追越近了是不是那天當初的狀況就是這樣是不是\n176963\t179226\t我們的同仁在那種過程中跳上船是有可能被夾到的我們的同仁還三根指頭被夾斷\n193247\t217365\t我們的同仁已經受傷不是在所有登船的事件當中我們有很多的這樣的一個傷痕在身上在國際海巡的執法慣例上通常啦如果要這個停船受檢那當然就會比較有衝突性也比較有危險性嘛甚至很多地方會做失能性射擊甚至考慮集塵那麼碰撞喔其實是這個執法的替代方法我還沒有問你你不要再這樣這很過分好不好\n219386\t242262\t所以我們用靠近的方式有的時候可能會有碰撞本來就是在所難免的事情嘛 對不對是嘛 對不對我跟你講我們今天把這話講清楚就是因為我們沒有無意要指責基層啊但是總要知道真相嘛你要先知道真相才能尋求善了所以剛剛很多委員都很關心有沒有密錄器我告訴你有沒有密錄器影響的是什麼\n243804\t259046\t影響是什麼?沒有密錄器的話會影響什麼?會造成什麼後果?我們會比較迅速的對於案情有比較多的了解這一點我們痛加檢討而且也成立了小組在未來如何確實的落實的部分還有整個過程我們都會做全盤的檢討\n260270\t285079\t我告訴主委108年大概也是在這裡開會雖然那時候本席還不是立法委員但那個時候大概也是因為海巡執法的關係內政委員會就做成決議兩個月以內要研議要處理讓大家都有密錄器108年就要講說把這個品質提升起來到了現在還會發生這樣的事情然後完全沒有畫面主委我告訴你沒有密錄器沒有畫面影響的就是基層的權益因為我們現在連話都講不清楚\n288640\t316844\t連話都講不清楚的時候我們怎麼幫基層執法人員講話這確實是保護雙方所以我們會痛加減討所以你現在講痛加減討現在就是痛加減討我痛加減討我承受指責現在台灣政治這麼好搞就對了在整件事情上包含主委今天稍早開會的時候在講我一肩扛起這話講得多好聽啊現在講一肩扛起只要被罵就叫一肩扛起這麼簡單嗎請問這件事情發生到現在誰負責了負起了什麼政治責任付出了什麼代價請你回答\n319295\t328327\t海巡依法行政取締三無傳播,造成意外沒有他們的過失。剛剛署長所說三大原因。\n332793\t334154\t我講的是你的管理示範嘛\n349060\t371126\t我講你的管理失當我講你該上去的裝備沒有準時上去嘛你的管理失當是高層的事情不是基本的事情嘛出事的時候管理階層就要檢討就要有人負起政治責任現在問題之所以大家講成這樣就是因為沒有人負起政治責任嘛大家期待你之所進退有所作為也是因為這樣嘛\n372206\t373287\t本席從來保護他們到現在,此時此刻我還在保護他們。\n388072\t410224\t根據海巡署召開的海巡署金門2014專案小組記者會,第9號海巡隊副隊長陳建文報告是坦承執法期間兩船有碰撞。金門地檢署2月20日對外說明,主任檢察官施嘉榮表示,詢問金門海巡隊執行隊員表示,張獅雙方高速行駛,退方不斷蛇行,雙方不慎發生碰撞,大陸快艇當場翻覆。\n411084\t427224\t我剛剛前面已經幫你講了你既然說因為我不要涉及我以碰撞的方式處理這是一種選擇所以碰撞是執法的常態地檢署也講你們自己海巡裡面的人也講那就有嘛有就是有碰撞跟撞船不一樣碰撞跟撞船不一樣我們請專業來說明好嗎\n428866\t443717\t碰撞和撞船是不是一樣我們能不能讓我們的分署長用最專業的角度你今天想要在這邊鬼扯這個我沒有意見我是請分署長要來說明你現在最大的問題我現在在檢討你整件事情的處遇你第一時間你講他蛇行蕃婦\n445518\t445839\t分署長回答\n463311\t479264\t發委員我們在執行登檢的過程裡面兩船會擦撞碰撞這個都是一個常態至於說碰撞的大小會不會影響到它翻覆的狀況這個由地檢署再做一個確認那我們在登檢這個碰撞擦撞這個都是一個常態\n480385\t482446\t所以你在這邊等於是承認有碰撞嗎?\n504312\t505172\t這個海巡第一時間沒有講所以我替他們來講的時候\n520077\t537287\t委員當碰撞的事實要說明又沒有錄影帶要一起說明的時候主委啊那絕對是一個跟社會溝通的問題你知道社會大眾現在怎麼解釋這件事嗎一開始說他們蛇行蕃赴所以我們的執法院幹好一開始後來講到哇完蛋了有碰撞可能這次有爭議\n537907\t545770\t後來你最近因為專案報告的名稱你又要堅持沒有碰撞然後你現在在這裡回答我的時候你又說有碰撞這叫顛三倒四啦各位我從來沒有對案情對案情我從頭到尾都說這個事情我剛還有得講啦我必須不偏不倚大公無私讓檢察官去還原實施光是你的反反復復啊就讓這件事情更加複雜\n560275\t564536\t主席,對不起,時間暫停一下。好,我們請主委的對相關的委員會執行在周一,好不好?好,謝謝,我們暫停暫停委員的這個,我們時間暫停一下。\n589924\t602347\t我承受,連一個報紙的社論都可以造謠到這種地步,說我下令海巡署可以對海警船直接開火。這是大報社會,我要說的,但我在臉書說也會被,也會被淘汰啊。\n610249\t627623\t請你就不要再回答問題,因為牛委員沒有問你這個問題,謝謝尊重一下立法委員的諮詢權啦,前面已經不尊重趙薇的排案權,現在又要不尊重立法委員的諮詢權這裡是你答詢的場合,不是你開記者會的場合,你搞清楚啊第三部分我要接著問啦第三部分我要接著問啦現在,我這個也要請一下陸委會主委,可能要一起說明好不好,麻煩你,謝謝請崔主委\n636821\t661488\t現在狀況 中共國台辦發表立場啦 直接宣誓說這個禁止水域不存在他不是嘴巴講而已啊 現在人家海警船也進來啦進來的時候 愛怎麼搞怎麼搞 我們看那個巡航軌跡感覺還蠻順暢的就好像照他規劃的這樣子繞了好幾圈一樣今天來一下 明天又來一下 好像非常態變成常態本席非常擔心啦 我們都支持海巡執法\n662068\t686935\t但我們也支持執法不分對象剛剛你講針對山無漁船 對不對我們這甚至要登船臨檢這是你的SOP我們當然覺得沒有問題 對不對我們剛剛在討論的是你在處理整件事情的時候進退失據讓一件意外變成政治風暴這是高層這是你們在管理單位無能的地方現在我們要看的是接下來可能會發生什麼事啊現在狀況是海警船登堂入室啊\n687415\t691940\t請問問海巡先請管主委再回答一下海巡是要處理呢還是不處理委員我建議這個問題由署長來回答我們要知道的是最專業最真實的事為什麼不讓署長回答呢我時間有限我給你30秒請好我們有請署長謝謝\n710072\t739373\t非常感謝委員給我這個機會說明我想你現在剛剛我就單就這個問題來回答對 這個海警船你要怎麼辦海警船現在目前從2月14號以後發生這件事情以後他們每天刻意的在白天平均在6到7艘那曾經有高達過11艘不僅海警船還有海監船還有公務船還有海巡船所以他們的意圖就是圍繞著金門對 他進來了處理不處理\n739933\t760227\t我們都在處理每一次都有處理有沒有驅離我們有驅離為什麼沒有影響他們的航跡我們當然有我們的船就是一直跟他對應著我們在我們的禁止水域內對他們不斷的廣播跟驅離這些我都可以提查你把船域的方式跟結構出面的方式我可以提答沒有問題沒有問題因為我們應該還會再討論這題好不好會我會點擊把最後25秒留給陸委會主委一樣\n764290\t790777\t我們要求書明這個禁止跟禁制水域是不是兩岸雙方的默契基本上從81年10月那國防部根據兩岸條例他公布了禁限制水域那這個禁限制水域30幾年來雙方都有這樣的有默契嘛對不對出現歧異的時候怎麼處理有沒有處理方式基本上我想海巡單位都有他的SOP沒有我講的是兩岸之間有沒有做協商跟討論\n792838\t806359\t他們都有一個處理的基礎...主委喂!不是,署長你不要打斷我,我剛已經跟你講你書面就好,如果我們現在講說遇到這樣子的問題,海軍署長在你後面,請問你是支持他強力執法,還是你要呼籲他冷靜一點?\n807941\t825554\t我想當然支持他執法 但是是不是強力不是 它本來狀況不同啊因為我們現在沒有辦法假設到底是珊瑚船還是一般的漁船還是貨船沒有我想海警船 中共的船中共的船那我想他們都有SOP我們的國軍有SOP所有的狀況不同 我們沒有辦法現在一一的\n830618\t857965\t主委,你剛剛有聽清楚我的問題嗎?一個是,是不是雙方默契?第二,認知出現歧異的時候是怎麼處理?你跟兩岸,就現在遇到這樣的狀況,你的委屈處理是什麼?第三個是執法,剛剛有問你這三個,一樣我請你會後用書面回覆本席,可以嗎?主委,前期未充分準備,中期處理進退失據第三,事後方向不明確,該有人負起政治責任,謝謝\n","txt":"主席主席\n因為在開始質詢之前我們還是要把話講清楚因為這個連給一份報告的內容都可以避重就輕這本席就覺得非常失望這是我們很多新科委員第一次站上委員會發言的質詢台但前面就惹出這麼多的風波那我想海洋委員會主委我想責無旁貸我舉個例子來講\n趙委已經明確的排案也把會議的名稱告訴大家連外面不屬於內政委員會直接監管的國防部都願意尊重內政委員會的排案權利直接去寫金門撞船案的報告結果你們自己一個海委會自己在那邊更改名稱還發臉書\n也不願意跳過也不願意只跟召委講也不跟委員溝通前面剛剛程旭發言有講其他有例子那都是協調過後大家都願意各退一步可是像你這樣子跳過去還在臉書上直接寫的也算是聞所未聞啊入委會也很油條啊就乾脆寫反正這就是個會議然後也不寫標題反正方法總是很多啦\n我只是覺得國防部比你們更重視內政委員會這件事情你們應該好好回去檢討因為有海巡署的立場必須捍衛請委員能夠支持你講得真好啊不要開始我們的質詢啦就是因為要捍衛海巡的立場啊我告訴你在場每一個立法委員都非常支持基層依法行政這件事情沒有人質疑我還沒有問我還沒有請你回答我會給你時間啦好不好主委你先聽我把話講完\n為什麼我們都講說要支持執法這就是因為我們要支持基層依法行政所以今天才要排這個專案報告我第一個要請問這個主委的問題是我們每一次現在有這些爭議的海域對不對有那麼多的船隻進進出出那請問平常海巡在執法的時候是以驅離為原則還是以登船這個檢查為原則請主委回答\n跟委員報告我今天的最新的資料沒有在手中但是根據事發當天我們今年驅離213艘才扣留了4艘驅離213艘扣留的才只有4艘這個數字我想委員從這個數字可以知道執法有執法的依法行政的總統規定所以我現在就要問你在這邊把話講清楚什麼時候要驅離什麼時候要上船登艦\n三無絕對扣留三無是法有明文規定兩岸人民關係條例明文規定三無船無名船百分之百我們就是一定要經過當屆以後處理那當然嘛既然是要登船要扣留對不對所以就越追越近了是不是那天當初的狀況就是這樣是不是\n我們的同仁在那種過程中跳上船是有可能被夾到的我們的同仁還三根指頭被夾斷\n我們的同仁已經受傷不是在所有登船的事件當中我們有很多的這樣的一個傷痕在身上在國際海巡的執法慣例上通常啦如果要這個停船受檢那當然就會比較有衝突性也比較有危險性嘛甚至很多地方會做失能性射擊甚至考慮集塵那麼碰撞喔其實是這個執法的替代方法我還沒有問你你不要再這樣這很過分好不好\n所以我們用靠近的方式有的時候可能會有碰撞本來就是在所難免的事情嘛 對不對是嘛 對不對我跟你講我們今天把這話講清楚就是因為我們沒有無意要指責基層啊但是總要知道真相嘛你要先知道真相才能尋求善了所以剛剛很多委員都很關心有沒有密錄器我告訴你有沒有密錄器影響的是什麼\n影響是什麼?沒有密錄器的話會影響什麼?會造成什麼後果?我們會比較迅速的對於案情有比較多的了解這一點我們痛加檢討而且也成立了小組在未來如何確實的落實的部分還有整個過程我們都會做全盤的檢討\n我告訴主委108年大概也是在這裡開會雖然那時候本席還不是立法委員但那個時候大概也是因為海巡執法的關係內政委員會就做成決議兩個月以內要研議要處理讓大家都有密錄器108年就要講說把這個品質提升起來到了現在還會發生這樣的事情然後完全沒有畫面主委我告訴你沒有密錄器沒有畫面影響的就是基層的權益因為我們現在連話都講不清楚\n連話都講不清楚的時候我們怎麼幫基層執法人員講話這確實是保護雙方所以我們會痛加減討所以你現在講痛加減討現在就是痛加減討我痛加減討我承受指責現在台灣政治這麼好搞就對了在整件事情上包含主委今天稍早開會的時候在講我一肩扛起這話講得多好聽啊現在講一肩扛起只要被罵就叫一肩扛起這麼簡單嗎請問這件事情發生到現在誰負責了負起了什麼政治責任付出了什麼代價請你回答\n海巡依法行政取締三無傳播,造成意外沒有他們的過失。剛剛署長所說三大原因。\n我講的是你的管理示範嘛\n我講你的管理失當我講你該上去的裝備沒有準時上去嘛你的管理失當是高層的事情不是基本的事情嘛出事的時候管理階層就要檢討就要有人負起政治責任現在問題之所以大家講成這樣就是因為沒有人負起政治責任嘛大家期待你之所進退有所作為也是因為這樣嘛\n本席從來保護他們到現在,此時此刻我還在保護他們。\n根據海巡署召開的海巡署金門2014專案小組記者會,第9號海巡隊副隊長陳建文報告是坦承執法期間兩船有碰撞。金門地檢署2月20日對外說明,主任檢察官施嘉榮表示,詢問金門海巡隊執行隊員表示,張獅雙方高速行駛,退方不斷蛇行,雙方不慎發生碰撞,大陸快艇當場翻覆。\n我剛剛前面已經幫你講了你既然說因為我不要涉及我以碰撞的方式處理這是一種選擇所以碰撞是執法的常態地檢署也講你們自己海巡裡面的人也講那就有嘛有就是有碰撞跟撞船不一樣碰撞跟撞船不一樣我們請專業來說明好嗎\n碰撞和撞船是不是一樣我們能不能讓我們的分署長用最專業的角度你今天想要在這邊鬼扯這個我沒有意見我是請分署長要來說明你現在最大的問題我現在在檢討你整件事情的處遇你第一時間你講他蛇行蕃婦\n分署長回答\n發委員我們在執行登檢的過程裡面兩船會擦撞碰撞這個都是一個常態至於說碰撞的大小會不會影響到它翻覆的狀況這個由地檢署再做一個確認那我們在登檢這個碰撞擦撞這個都是一個常態\n所以你在這邊等於是承認有碰撞嗎?\n這個海巡第一時間沒有講所以我替他們來講的時候\n委員當碰撞的事實要說明又沒有錄影帶要一起說明的時候主委啊那絕對是一個跟社會溝通的問題你知道社會大眾現在怎麼解釋這件事嗎一開始說他們蛇行蕃赴所以我們的執法院幹好一開始後來講到哇完蛋了有碰撞可能這次有爭議\n後來你最近因為專案報告的名稱你又要堅持沒有碰撞然後你現在在這裡回答我的時候你又說有碰撞這叫顛三倒四啦各位我從來沒有對案情對案情我從頭到尾都說這個事情我剛還有得講啦我必須不偏不倚大公無私讓檢察官去還原實施光是你的反反復復啊就讓這件事情更加複雜\n主席,對不起,時間暫停一下。好,我們請主委的對相關的委員會執行在周一,好不好?好,謝謝,我們暫停暫停委員的這個,我們時間暫停一下。\n我承受,連一個報紙的社論都可以造謠到這種地步,說我下令海巡署可以對海警船直接開火。這是大報社會,我要說的,但我在臉書說也會被,也會被淘汰啊。\n請你就不要再回答問題,因為牛委員沒有問你這個問題,謝謝尊重一下立法委員的諮詢權啦,前面已經不尊重趙薇的排案權,現在又要不尊重立法委員的諮詢權這裡是你答詢的場合,不是你開記者會的場合,你搞清楚啊第三部分我要接著問啦第三部分我要接著問啦現在,我這個也要請一下陸委會主委,可能要一起說明好不好,麻煩你,謝謝請崔主委\n現在狀況 中共國台辦發表立場啦 直接宣誓說這個禁止水域不存在他不是嘴巴講而已啊 現在人家海警船也進來啦進來的時候 愛怎麼搞怎麼搞 我們看那個巡航軌跡感覺還蠻順暢的就好像照他規劃的這樣子繞了好幾圈一樣今天來一下 明天又來一下 好像非常態變成常態本席非常擔心啦 我們都支持海巡執法\n但我們也支持執法不分對象剛剛你講針對山無漁船 對不對我們這甚至要登船臨檢這是你的SOP我們當然覺得沒有問題 對不對我們剛剛在討論的是你在處理整件事情的時候進退失據讓一件意外變成政治風暴這是高層這是你們在管理單位無能的地方現在我們要看的是接下來可能會發生什麼事啊現在狀況是海警船登堂入室啊\n請問問海巡先請管主委再回答一下海巡是要處理呢還是不處理委員我建議這個問題由署長來回答我們要知道的是最專業最真實的事為什麼不讓署長回答呢我時間有限我給你30秒請好我們有請署長謝謝\n非常感謝委員給我這個機會說明我想你現在剛剛我就單就這個問題來回答對 這個海警船你要怎麼辦海警船現在目前從2月14號以後發生這件事情以後他們每天刻意的在白天平均在6到7艘那曾經有高達過11艘不僅海警船還有海監船還有公務船還有海巡船所以他們的意圖就是圍繞著金門對 他進來了處理不處理\n我們都在處理每一次都有處理有沒有驅離我們有驅離為什麼沒有影響他們的航跡我們當然有我們的船就是一直跟他對應著我們在我們的禁止水域內對他們不斷的廣播跟驅離這些我都可以提查你把船域的方式跟結構出面的方式我可以提答沒有問題沒有問題因為我們應該還會再討論這題好不好會我會點擊把最後25秒留給陸委會主委一樣\n我們要求書明這個禁止跟禁制水域是不是兩岸雙方的默契基本上從81年10月那國防部根據兩岸條例他公布了禁限制水域那這個禁限制水域30幾年來雙方都有這樣的有默契嘛對不對出現歧異的時候怎麼處理有沒有處理方式基本上我想海巡單位都有他的SOP沒有我講的是兩岸之間有沒有做協商跟討論\n他們都有一個處理的基礎...主委喂!不是,署長你不要打斷我,我剛已經跟你講你書面就好,如果我們現在講說遇到這樣子的問題,海軍署長在你後面,請問你是支持他強力執法,還是你要呼籲他冷靜一點?\n我想當然支持他執法 但是是不是強力不是 它本來狀況不同啊因為我們現在沒有辦法假設到底是珊瑚船還是一般的漁船還是貨船沒有我想海警船 中共的船中共的船那我想他們都有SOP我們的國軍有SOP所有的狀況不同 我們沒有辦法現在一一的\n主委,你剛剛有聽清楚我的問題嗎?一個是,是不是雙方默契?第二,認知出現歧異的時候是怎麼處理?你跟兩岸,就現在遇到這樣的狀況,你的委屈處理是什麼?第三個是執法,剛剛有問你這三個,一樣我請你會後用書面回覆本席,可以嗎?主委,前期未充分準備,中期處理進退失據第三,事後方向不明確,該有人負起政治責任,謝謝\n","vtt":"WEBVTT\n\n00:00.069 --> 00:00.269\n主席主席\n\n00:18.632 --> 00:37.449\n因為在開始質詢之前我們還是要把話講清楚因為這個連給一份報告的內容都可以避重就輕這本席就覺得非常失望這是我們很多新科委員第一次站上委員會發言的質詢台但前面就惹出這麼多的風波那我想海洋委員會主委我想責無旁貸我舉個例子來講\n\n00:38.670 --> 00:54.662\n趙委已經明確的排案也把會議的名稱告訴大家連外面不屬於內政委員會直接監管的國防部都願意尊重內政委員會的排案權利直接去寫金門撞船案的報告結果你們自己一個海委會自己在那邊更改名稱還發臉書\n\n00:56.804 --> 01:17.971\n也不願意跳過也不願意只跟召委講也不跟委員溝通前面剛剛程旭發言有講其他有例子那都是協調過後大家都願意各退一步可是像你這樣子跳過去還在臉書上直接寫的也算是聞所未聞啊入委會也很油條啊就乾脆寫反正這就是個會議然後也不寫標題反正方法總是很多啦\n\n01:18.331 --> 01:40.839\n我只是覺得國防部比你們更重視內政委員會這件事情你們應該好好回去檢討因為有海巡署的立場必須捍衛請委員能夠支持你講得真好啊不要開始我們的質詢啦就是因為要捍衛海巡的立場啊我告訴你在場每一個立法委員都非常支持基層依法行政這件事情沒有人質疑我還沒有問我還沒有請你回答我會給你時間啦好不好主委你先聽我把話講完\n\n01:45.120 --> 02:08.633\n為什麼我們都講說要支持執法這就是因為我們要支持基層依法行政所以今天才要排這個專案報告我第一個要請問這個主委的問題是我們每一次現在有這些爭議的海域對不對有那麼多的船隻進進出出那請問平常海巡在執法的時候是以驅離為原則還是以登船這個檢查為原則請主委回答\n\n02:09.173 --> 02:37.839\n跟委員報告我今天的最新的資料沒有在手中但是根據事發當天我們今年驅離213艘才扣留了4艘驅離213艘扣留的才只有4艘這個數字我想委員從這個數字可以知道執法有執法的依法行政的總統規定所以我現在就要問你在這邊把話講清楚什麼時候要驅離什麼時候要上船登艦\n\n02:38.499 --> 02:55.802\n三無絕對扣留三無是法有明文規定兩岸人民關係條例明文規定三無船無名船百分之百我們就是一定要經過當屆以後處理那當然嘛既然是要登船要扣留對不對所以就越追越近了是不是那天當初的狀況就是這樣是不是\n\n02:56.963 --> 02:59.226\n我們的同仁在那種過程中跳上船是有可能被夾到的我們的同仁還三根指頭被夾斷\n\n03:13.247 --> 03:37.365\n我們的同仁已經受傷不是在所有登船的事件當中我們有很多的這樣的一個傷痕在身上在國際海巡的執法慣例上通常啦如果要這個停船受檢那當然就會比較有衝突性也比較有危險性嘛甚至很多地方會做失能性射擊甚至考慮集塵那麼碰撞喔其實是這個執法的替代方法我還沒有問你你不要再這樣這很過分好不好\n\n03:39.386 --> 04:02.262\n所以我們用靠近的方式有的時候可能會有碰撞本來就是在所難免的事情嘛對不對是嘛對不對我跟你講我們今天把這話講清楚就是因為我們沒有無意要指責基層啊但是總要知道真相嘛你要先知道真相才能尋求善了所以剛剛很多委員都很關心有沒有密錄器我告訴你有沒有密錄器影響的是什麼\n\n04:03.804 --> 04:19.046\n影響是什麼?沒有密錄器的話會影響什麼?會造成什麼後果?我們會比較迅速的對於案情有比較多的了解這一點我們痛加檢討而且也成立了小組在未來如何確實的落實的部分還有整個過程我們都會做全盤的檢討\n\n04:20.270 --> 04:45.079\n我告訴主委108年大概也是在這裡開會雖然那時候本席還不是立法委員但那個時候大概也是因為海巡執法的關係內政委員會就做成決議兩個月以內要研議要處理讓大家都有密錄器108年就要講說把這個品質提升起來到了現在還會發生這樣的事情然後完全沒有畫面主委我告訴你沒有密錄器沒有畫面影響的就是基層的權益因為我們現在連話都講不清楚\n\n04:48.640 --> 05:16.844\n連話都講不清楚的時候我們怎麼幫基層執法人員講話這確實是保護雙方所以我們會痛加減討所以你現在講痛加減討現在就是痛加減討我痛加減討我承受指責現在台灣政治這麼好搞就對了在整件事情上包含主委今天稍早開會的時候在講我一肩扛起這話講得多好聽啊現在講一肩扛起只要被罵就叫一肩扛起這麼簡單嗎請問這件事情發生到現在誰負責了負起了什麼政治責任付出了什麼代價請你回答\n\n05:19.295 --> 05:28.327\n海巡依法行政取締三無傳播,造成意外沒有他們的過失。剛剛署長所說三大原因。\n\n05:32.793 --> 05:34.154\n我講的是你的管理示範嘛\n\n05:49.060 --> 06:11.126\n我講你的管理失當我講你該上去的裝備沒有準時上去嘛你的管理失當是高層的事情不是基本的事情嘛出事的時候管理階層就要檢討就要有人負起政治責任現在問題之所以大家講成這樣就是因為沒有人負起政治責任嘛大家期待你之所進退有所作為也是因為這樣嘛\n\n06:12.206 --> 06:13.287\n本席從來保護他們到現在,此時此刻我還在保護他們。\n\n06:28.072 --> 06:50.224\n根據海巡署召開的海巡署金門2014專案小組記者會,第9號海巡隊副隊長陳建文報告是坦承執法期間兩船有碰撞。金門地檢署2月20日對外說明,主任檢察官施嘉榮表示,詢問金門海巡隊執行隊員表示,張獅雙方高速行駛,退方不斷蛇行,雙方不慎發生碰撞,大陸快艇當場翻覆。\n\n06:51.084 --> 07:07.224\n我剛剛前面已經幫你講了你既然說因為我不要涉及我以碰撞的方式處理這是一種選擇所以碰撞是執法的常態地檢署也講你們自己海巡裡面的人也講那就有嘛有就是有碰撞跟撞船不一樣碰撞跟撞船不一樣我們請專業來說明好嗎\n\n07:08.866 --> 07:23.717\n碰撞和撞船是不是一樣我們能不能讓我們的分署長用最專業的角度你今天想要在這邊鬼扯這個我沒有意見我是請分署長要來說明你現在最大的問題我現在在檢討你整件事情的處遇你第一時間你講他蛇行蕃婦\n\n07:25.518 --> 07:25.839\n分署長回答\n\n07:43.311 --> 07:59.264\n發委員我們在執行登檢的過程裡面兩船會擦撞碰撞這個都是一個常態至於說碰撞的大小會不會影響到它翻覆的狀況這個由地檢署再做一個確認那我們在登檢這個碰撞擦撞這個都是一個常態\n\n08:00.385 --> 08:02.446\n所以你在這邊等於是承認有碰撞嗎?\n\n08:24.312 --> 08:25.172\n這個海巡第一時間沒有講所以我替他們來講的時候\n\n08:40.077 --> 08:57.287\n委員當碰撞的事實要說明又沒有錄影帶要一起說明的時候主委啊那絕對是一個跟社會溝通的問題你知道社會大眾現在怎麼解釋這件事嗎一開始說他們蛇行蕃赴所以我們的執法院幹好一開始後來講到哇完蛋了有碰撞可能這次有爭議\n\n08:57.907 --> 09:05.770\n後來你最近因為專案報告的名稱你又要堅持沒有碰撞然後你現在在這裡回答我的時候你又說有碰撞這叫顛三倒四啦各位我從來沒有對案情對案情我從頭到尾都說這個事情我剛還有得講啦我必須不偏不倚大公無私讓檢察官去還原實施光是你的反反復復啊就讓這件事情更加複雜\n\n09:20.275 --> 09:24.536\n主席,對不起,時間暫停一下。好,我們請主委的對相關的委員會執行在周一,好不好?好,謝謝,我們暫停暫停委員的這個,我們時間暫停一下。\n\n09:49.924 --> 10:02.347\n我承受,連一個報紙的社論都可以造謠到這種地步,說我下令海巡署可以對海警船直接開火。這是大報社會,我要說的,但我在臉書說也會被,也會被淘汰啊。\n\n10:10.249 --> 10:27.623\n請你就不要再回答問題,因為牛委員沒有問你這個問題,謝謝尊重一下立法委員的諮詢權啦,前面已經不尊重趙薇的排案權,現在又要不尊重立法委員的諮詢權這裡是你答詢的場合,不是你開記者會的場合,你搞清楚啊第三部分我要接著問啦第三部分我要接著問啦現在,我這個也要請一下陸委會主委,可能要一起說明好不好,麻煩你,謝謝請崔主委\n\n10:36.821 --> 11:01.488\n現在狀況中共國台辦發表立場啦直接宣誓說這個禁止水域不存在他不是嘴巴講而已啊現在人家海警船也進來啦進來的時候愛怎麼搞怎麼搞我們看那個巡航軌跡感覺還蠻順暢的就好像照他規劃的這樣子繞了好幾圈一樣今天來一下明天又來一下好像非常態變成常態本席非常擔心啦我們都支持海巡執法\n\n11:02.068 --> 11:26.935\n但我們也支持執法不分對象剛剛你講針對山無漁船對不對我們這甚至要登船臨檢這是你的SOP我們當然覺得沒有問題對不對我們剛剛在討論的是你在處理整件事情的時候進退失據讓一件意外變成政治風暴這是高層這是你們在管理單位無能的地方現在我們要看的是接下來可能會發生什麼事啊現在狀況是海警船登堂入室啊\n\n11:27.415 --> 11:31.940\n請問問海巡先請管主委再回答一下海巡是要處理呢還是不處理委員我建議這個問題由署長來回答我們要知道的是最專業最真實的事為什麼不讓署長回答呢我時間有限我給你30秒請好我們有請署長謝謝\n\n11:50.072 --> 12:19.373\n非常感謝委員給我這個機會說明我想你現在剛剛我就單就這個問題來回答對這個海警船你要怎麼辦海警船現在目前從2月14號以後發生這件事情以後他們每天刻意的在白天平均在6到7艘那曾經有高達過11艘不僅海警船還有海監船還有公務船還有海巡船所以他們的意圖就是圍繞著金門對他進來了處理不處理\n\n12:19.933 --> 12:40.227\n我們都在處理每一次都有處理有沒有驅離我們有驅離為什麼沒有影響他們的航跡我們當然有我們的船就是一直跟他對應著我們在我們的禁止水域內對他們不斷的廣播跟驅離這些我都可以提查你把船域的方式跟結構出面的方式我可以提答沒有問題沒有問題因為我們應該還會再討論這題好不好會我會點擊把最後25秒留給陸委會主委一樣\n\n12:44.290 --> 13:10.777\n我們要求書明這個禁止跟禁制水域是不是兩岸雙方的默契基本上從81年10月那國防部根據兩岸條例他公布了禁限制水域那這個禁限制水域30幾年來雙方都有這樣的有默契嘛對不對出現歧異的時候怎麼處理有沒有處理方式基本上我想海巡單位都有他的SOP沒有我講的是兩岸之間有沒有做協商跟討論\n\n13:12.838 --> 13:26.359\n他們都有一個處理的基礎...主委喂!不是,署長你不要打斷我,我剛已經跟你講你書面就好,如果我們現在講說遇到這樣子的問題,海軍署長在你後面,請問你是支持他強力執法,還是你要呼籲他冷靜一點?\n\n13:27.941 --> 13:45.554\n我想當然支持他執法但是是不是強力不是它本來狀況不同啊因為我們現在沒有辦法假設到底是珊瑚船還是一般的漁船還是貨船沒有我想海警船中共的船中共的船那我想他們都有SOP我們的國軍有SOP所有的狀況不同我們沒有辦法現在一一的\n\n13:50.618 --> 14:17.965\n主委,你剛剛有聽清楚我的問題嗎?一個是,是不是雙方默契?第二,認知出現歧異的時候是怎麼處理?你跟兩岸,就現在遇到這樣的狀況,你的委屈處理是什麼?第三個是執法,剛剛有問你這三個,一樣我請你會後用書面回覆本席,可以嗎?主委,前期未充分準備,中期處理進退失據第三,事後方向不明確,該有人負起政治責任,謝謝\n\n","segments":[{"start":0.069,"end":0.269,"text":"主席主席"},{"start":18.632,"end":37.449,"text":"因為在開始質詢之前我們還是要把話講清楚因為這個連給一份報告的內容都可以避重就輕這本席就覺得非常失望這是我們很多新科委員第一次站上委員會發言的質詢台但前面就惹出這麼多的風波那我想海洋委員會主委我想責無旁貸我舉個例子來講"},{"start":38.67,"end":54.662,"text":"趙委已經明確的排案也把會議的名稱告訴大家連外面不屬於內政委員會直接監管的國防部都願意尊重內政委員會的排案權利直接去寫金門撞船案的報告結果你們自己一個海委會自己在那邊更改名稱還發臉書"},{"start":56.804,"end":77.971,"text":"也不願意跳過也不願意只跟召委講也不跟委員溝通前面剛剛程旭發言有講其他有例子那都是協調過後大家都願意各退一步可是像你這樣子跳過去還在臉書上直接寫的也算是聞所未聞啊入委會也很油條啊就乾脆寫反正這就是個會議然後也不寫標題反正方法總是很多啦"},{"start":78.331,"end":100.839,"text":"我只是覺得國防部比你們更重視內政委員會這件事情你們應該好好回去檢討因為有海巡署的立場必須捍衛請委員能夠支持你講得真好啊不要開始我們的質詢啦就是因為要捍衛海巡的立場啊我告訴你在場每一個立法委員都非常支持基層依法行政這件事情沒有人質疑我還沒有問我還沒有請你回答我會給你時間啦好不好主委你先聽我把話講完"},{"start":105.12,"end":128.633,"text":"為什麼我們都講說要支持執法這就是因為我們要支持基層依法行政所以今天才要排這個專案報告我第一個要請問這個主委的問題是我們每一次現在有這些爭議的海域對不對有那麼多的船隻進進出出那請問平常海巡在執法的時候是以驅離為原則還是以登船這個檢查為原則請主委回答"},{"start":129.173,"end":157.839,"text":"跟委員報告我今天的最新的資料沒有在手中但是根據事發當天我們今年驅離213艘才扣留了4艘驅離213艘扣留的才只有4艘這個數字我想委員從這個數字可以知道執法有執法的依法行政的總統規定所以我現在就要問你在這邊把話講清楚什麼時候要驅離什麼時候要上船登艦"},{"start":158.499,"end":175.802,"text":"三無絕對扣留三無是法有明文規定兩岸人民關係條例明文規定三無船無名船百分之百我們就是一定要經過當屆以後處理那當然嘛既然是要登船要扣留對不對所以就越追越近了是不是那天當初的狀況就是這樣是不是"},{"start":176.963,"end":179.226,"text":"我們的同仁在那種過程中跳上船是有可能被夾到的我們的同仁還三根指頭被夾斷"},{"start":193.247,"end":217.365,"text":"我們的同仁已經受傷不是在所有登船的事件當中我們有很多的這樣的一個傷痕在身上在國際海巡的執法慣例上通常啦如果要這個停船受檢那當然就會比較有衝突性也比較有危險性嘛甚至很多地方會做失能性射擊甚至考慮集塵那麼碰撞喔其實是這個執法的替代方法我還沒有問你你不要再這樣這很過分好不好"},{"start":219.386,"end":242.262,"text":"所以我們用靠近的方式有的時候可能會有碰撞本來就是在所難免的事情嘛 對不對是嘛 對不對我跟你講我們今天把這話講清楚就是因為我們沒有無意要指責基層啊但是總要知道真相嘛你要先知道真相才能尋求善了所以剛剛很多委員都很關心有沒有密錄器我告訴你有沒有密錄器影響的是什麼"},{"start":243.804,"end":259.046,"text":"影響是什麼?沒有密錄器的話會影響什麼?會造成什麼後果?我們會比較迅速的對於案情有比較多的了解這一點我們痛加檢討而且也成立了小組在未來如何確實的落實的部分還有整個過程我們都會做全盤的檢討"},{"start":260.27,"end":285.079,"text":"我告訴主委108年大概也是在這裡開會雖然那時候本席還不是立法委員但那個時候大概也是因為海巡執法的關係內政委員會就做成決議兩個月以內要研議要處理讓大家都有密錄器108年就要講說把這個品質提升起來到了現在還會發生這樣的事情然後完全沒有畫面主委我告訴你沒有密錄器沒有畫面影響的就是基層的權益因為我們現在連話都講不清楚"},{"start":288.64,"end":316.844,"text":"連話都講不清楚的時候我們怎麼幫基層執法人員講話這確實是保護雙方所以我們會痛加減討所以你現在講痛加減討現在就是痛加減討我痛加減討我承受指責現在台灣政治這麼好搞就對了在整件事情上包含主委今天稍早開會的時候在講我一肩扛起這話講得多好聽啊現在講一肩扛起只要被罵就叫一肩扛起這麼簡單嗎請問這件事情發生到現在誰負責了負起了什麼政治責任付出了什麼代價請你回答"},{"start":319.295,"end":328.327,"text":"海巡依法行政取締三無傳播,造成意外沒有他們的過失。剛剛署長所說三大原因。"},{"start":332.793,"end":334.154,"text":"我講的是你的管理示範嘛"},{"start":349.06,"end":371.126,"text":"我講你的管理失當我講你該上去的裝備沒有準時上去嘛你的管理失當是高層的事情不是基本的事情嘛出事的時候管理階層就要檢討就要有人負起政治責任現在問題之所以大家講成這樣就是因為沒有人負起政治責任嘛大家期待你之所進退有所作為也是因為這樣嘛"},{"start":372.206,"end":373.287,"text":"本席從來保護他們到現在,此時此刻我還在保護他們。"},{"start":388.072,"end":410.224,"text":"根據海巡署召開的海巡署金門2014專案小組記者會,第9號海巡隊副隊長陳建文報告是坦承執法期間兩船有碰撞。金門地檢署2月20日對外說明,主任檢察官施嘉榮表示,詢問金門海巡隊執行隊員表示,張獅雙方高速行駛,退方不斷蛇行,雙方不慎發生碰撞,大陸快艇當場翻覆。"},{"start":411.084,"end":427.224,"text":"我剛剛前面已經幫你講了你既然說因為我不要涉及我以碰撞的方式處理這是一種選擇所以碰撞是執法的常態地檢署也講你們自己海巡裡面的人也講那就有嘛有就是有碰撞跟撞船不一樣碰撞跟撞船不一樣我們請專業來說明好嗎"},{"start":428.866,"end":443.717,"text":"碰撞和撞船是不是一樣我們能不能讓我們的分署長用最專業的角度你今天想要在這邊鬼扯這個我沒有意見我是請分署長要來說明你現在最大的問題我現在在檢討你整件事情的處遇你第一時間你講他蛇行蕃婦"},{"start":445.518,"end":445.839,"text":"分署長回答"},{"start":463.311,"end":479.264,"text":"發委員我們在執行登檢的過程裡面兩船會擦撞碰撞這個都是一個常態至於說碰撞的大小會不會影響到它翻覆的狀況這個由地檢署再做一個確認那我們在登檢這個碰撞擦撞這個都是一個常態"},{"start":480.385,"end":482.446,"text":"所以你在這邊等於是承認有碰撞嗎?"},{"start":504.312,"end":505.172,"text":"這個海巡第一時間沒有講所以我替他們來講的時候"},{"start":520.077,"end":537.287,"text":"委員當碰撞的事實要說明又沒有錄影帶要一起說明的時候主委啊那絕對是一個跟社會溝通的問題你知道社會大眾現在怎麼解釋這件事嗎一開始說他們蛇行蕃赴所以我們的執法院幹好一開始後來講到哇完蛋了有碰撞可能這次有爭議"},{"start":537.907,"end":545.77,"text":"後來你最近因為專案報告的名稱你又要堅持沒有碰撞然後你現在在這裡回答我的時候你又說有碰撞這叫顛三倒四啦各位我從來沒有對案情對案情我從頭到尾都說這個事情我剛還有得講啦我必須不偏不倚大公無私讓檢察官去還原實施光是你的反反復復啊就讓這件事情更加複雜"},{"start":560.275,"end":564.536,"text":"主席,對不起,時間暫停一下。好,我們請主委的對相關的委員會執行在周一,好不好?好,謝謝,我們暫停暫停委員的這個,我們時間暫停一下。"},{"start":589.924,"end":602.347,"text":"我承受,連一個報紙的社論都可以造謠到這種地步,說我下令海巡署可以對海警船直接開火。這是大報社會,我要說的,但我在臉書說也會被,也會被淘汰啊。"},{"start":610.249,"end":627.623,"text":"請你就不要再回答問題,因為牛委員沒有問你這個問題,謝謝尊重一下立法委員的諮詢權啦,前面已經不尊重趙薇的排案權,現在又要不尊重立法委員的諮詢權這裡是你答詢的場合,不是你開記者會的場合,你搞清楚啊第三部分我要接著問啦第三部分我要接著問啦現在,我這個也要請一下陸委會主委,可能要一起說明好不好,麻煩你,謝謝請崔主委"},{"start":636.821,"end":661.488,"text":"現在狀況 中共國台辦發表立場啦 直接宣誓說這個禁止水域不存在他不是嘴巴講而已啊 現在人家海警船也進來啦進來的時候 愛怎麼搞怎麼搞 我們看那個巡航軌跡感覺還蠻順暢的就好像照他規劃的這樣子繞了好幾圈一樣今天來一下 明天又來一下 好像非常態變成常態本席非常擔心啦 我們都支持海巡執法"},{"start":662.068,"end":686.935,"text":"但我們也支持執法不分對象剛剛你講針對山無漁船 對不對我們這甚至要登船臨檢這是你的SOP我們當然覺得沒有問題 對不對我們剛剛在討論的是你在處理整件事情的時候進退失據讓一件意外變成政治風暴這是高層這是你們在管理單位無能的地方現在我們要看的是接下來可能會發生什麼事啊現在狀況是海警船登堂入室啊"},{"start":687.415,"end":691.94,"text":"請問問海巡先請管主委再回答一下海巡是要處理呢還是不處理委員我建議這個問題由署長來回答我們要知道的是最專業最真實的事為什麼不讓署長回答呢我時間有限我給你30秒請好我們有請署長謝謝"},{"start":710.072,"end":739.373,"text":"非常感謝委員給我這個機會說明我想你現在剛剛我就單就這個問題來回答對 這個海警船你要怎麼辦海警船現在目前從2月14號以後發生這件事情以後他們每天刻意的在白天平均在6到7艘那曾經有高達過11艘不僅海警船還有海監船還有公務船還有海巡船所以他們的意圖就是圍繞著金門對 他進來了處理不處理"},{"start":739.933,"end":760.227,"text":"我們都在處理每一次都有處理有沒有驅離我們有驅離為什麼沒有影響他們的航跡我們當然有我們的船就是一直跟他對應著我們在我們的禁止水域內對他們不斷的廣播跟驅離這些我都可以提查你把船域的方式跟結構出面的方式我可以提答沒有問題沒有問題因為我們應該還會再討論這題好不好會我會點擊把最後25秒留給陸委會主委一樣"},{"start":764.29,"end":790.777,"text":"我們要求書明這個禁止跟禁制水域是不是兩岸雙方的默契基本上從81年10月那國防部根據兩岸條例他公布了禁限制水域那這個禁限制水域30幾年來雙方都有這樣的有默契嘛對不對出現歧異的時候怎麼處理有沒有處理方式基本上我想海巡單位都有他的SOP沒有我講的是兩岸之間有沒有做協商跟討論"},{"start":792.838,"end":806.359,"text":"他們都有一個處理的基礎...主委喂!不是,署長你不要打斷我,我剛已經跟你講你書面就好,如果我們現在講說遇到這樣子的問題,海軍署長在你後面,請問你是支持他強力執法,還是你要呼籲他冷靜一點?"},{"start":807.941,"end":825.554,"text":"我想當然支持他執法 但是是不是強力不是 它本來狀況不同啊因為我們現在沒有辦法假設到底是珊瑚船還是一般的漁船還是貨船沒有我想海警船 中共的船中共的船那我想他們都有SOP我們的國軍有SOP所有的狀況不同 我們沒有辦法現在一一的"},{"start":830.618,"end":857.965,"text":"主委,你剛剛有聽清楚我的問題嗎?一個是,是不是雙方默契?第二,認知出現歧異的時候是怎麼處理?你跟兩岸,就現在遇到這樣的狀況,你的委屈處理是什麼?第三個是執法,剛剛有問你這三個,一樣我請你會後用書面回覆本席,可以嗎?主委,前期未充分準備,中期處理進退失據第三,事後方向不明確,該有人負起政治責任,謝謝"}]}}}}