{"id":149316,"url":"https://ivod.ly.gov.tw/Play/Clip/1M/149316","video_url":"https://ivod-lyvod.cdn.hinet.net/vod_1/_definst_/mp4:1MClips/d6f3e02e0bf46d5ee7e57db6a344d15d886681d5001d2e43f8ba9b0039caa7a64489ae8b597ef0b15ea18f28b6918d91.mp4/playlist.m3u8","委員名稱":"高金素梅","委員發言時間":"11:37:41 - 12:03:05","影片長度":"00:25:24","會議時間":"2024-03-05T09:00:00+08:00","會議名稱":"第11屆第1會期第3次會議（事由：一、對行政院院長提出施政方針及施政報告繼續質詢。\n 二、3月1日上午9時至10時為國是論壇時間。\n 三、3月5日下午1時50分至2時30分為處理臨時提案時間。）","meet":{"tmpMeeting":null,"title":"立法院第11屆第1會期第3次會議","id":"院會-11-1-3","type":"院會","term":11,"sessionPeriod":1,"sessionTimes":3},"date":"2024-03-05","duration":1524,"end_time":"2024-03-05T12:03:05+08:00","start_time":"2024-03-05T11:37:41+08:00","features":["ai-transcript","gazette"],"type":"Clip","gazette":{"lineno":419,"blocks":[["高金委員素梅：（11時37分）謝謝韓院長，現在有請陳院長。"],["主席：麻煩再請陳院長備詢。"],["陳院長建仁：高金委員午安，恭喜你連任。"],["高金委員素梅：院長您好，看守內閣還有兩個半月，您真是老驥伏櫪啊，辛苦了！這兩個半月，雖然是看守內閣，其實你也可以做非常多福國利民的事情，我講一個積極、正向的例子給您聽。","在2016年的2月1號，馬英九提名張善政擔任行政院長，他作為政黨輪替的看守內閣總共109天；在這109天，因為張善政院長的積極作為，因此對我們原鄉有了非常多重大的改變。當時我對剛上任的張院長提出了我的總質詢，我跟他提出原鄉危險的路段受限於國土復育計畫沒有辦法進行改善，為什麼不把原鄉危險的路段還有我們的橋梁也納入可以拓寬、可以新闢道路的生活圈道路交通建設系統？張院長當時答復我說可以研議。質詢後的隔天，我就帶著所有的資料到行政院裡面找張院長討論，張院長很快的也找來他的幕僚，我們來研究，結論是修改計畫，並且只要由院長來核定就可以了，張院長就立刻指示一個月之內要完成。這八年下來，我們用生活圈道路經費改善了非常多原鄉危險的道路，還有從來不被大家重視的橋梁，受惠的地區有您去過的尖石鄉、五峰鄉、泰安、阿里山鄉、仁愛、茂林區、來義鄉、獅子鄉、牡丹鄉，還有離島蘭嶼。院長您看，一個月這樣積極的作為，所謂的看守內閣可以做明快的決策，會帶來一連串非常好的結果，而且一直持續到未來，我講這個案例是希望你也能夠有積極的作為，可以嗎？"],["陳院長建仁：好，我聽聽看。"],["高金委員素梅：好，謝謝，我先跟你談幾個原住民的問題，第一個我談的是幸福巴士，這裡10月份的時候你還記得嗎？您提到要改善偏鄉交通的幸福巴士，你還去過尖石鄉，當時你跟我說有很多需要精進的地方，譬如說老舊的車輛需要更新，請問一下院長，現在你們怎麼精進？原鄉地區你們到底更換了多少我們的幸福巴士？"],["陳院長建仁：幸福巴士的這個部分，我請交通部長來做一個回應。"],["高金委員素梅：好，我們把時間暫停一下，部長請你可以很從容地上台。"],["王部長國材：是。"],["高金委員素梅：請您回答，謝謝。"],["王部長國材：跟委員報告，在過去的確幸福巴士的部分……"],["高金委員素梅：不用說太多，你要怎麼精進？"],["王部長國材：我們會補助……"],["高金委員素梅：然後你換了多少輛？"],["王部長國材：現在尖石的部分，我瞭解好像現在有一部很舊的，現在有……"],["高金委員素梅：所以只有尖石？"],["王部長國材：不止。"],["高金委員素梅：那要怎麼精進？"],["王部長國材：我們現在公共運輸計畫對於原民鄉，希望他們提出補助……"],["高金委員素梅：所以是需要原民鄉提出？"],["王部長國材：對。"],["高金委員素梅：所以只要原民鄉提出就可以改善，是嗎？是這樣嗎？"],["王部長國材：我們會儘量來協助，會來協助。"],["高金委員素梅：儘量是什麼意思？是可以協助還是儘量？"],["王部長國材：當然就是它計畫寫得很OK……"],["高金委員素梅：我瞭解。"],["王部長國材：然後我們會來協助。"],["高金委員素梅：我瞭解，我們也會要求鄉公所儘量把計畫寫好，好不好？"],["王部長國材：是，好，沒問題。"],["高金委員素梅：謝謝您，謝謝。好，這個是幸福巴士的問題。第二個我要談的是部落聯絡道路，部落聯絡道路使用汽燃費的部分，去年我們原民會調查了所有原住民地區的公里數，呈報的經費是3.6億的道路養護經費，結果呈報上來也被我們的交通部打了5折，只核定了1.7億，僧多粥少的狀況之下引起很多困擾，我們都知道部落的聯絡道路就是因為縣市政府長期以來沒有給原鄉養護道路經費，因為我的質詢、我的要求，所以我們現在才把汽燃費撥到原民會，直接下到鄉公所來養護道路。上一次院長你還記得嗎？你在這邊也同意我要改善，請問您交辦了嗎？然後，不足的經費會補足嗎？院長。"],["陳院長建仁：這一個部分，我想在道路養護經費的部分……"],["高金委員素梅：請您快一點回答，會還是不會？今年會不會補足我們的3.6億？"],["陳院長建仁：這個部分我要回去再瞭解一下狀況……"],["高金委員素梅：您上次都說要研議啊！"],["陳院長建仁：對。"],["高金委員素梅：你現在還是研議嗎？還是我明天到行政院去找您？"],["夷將．拔路兒主任委員：跟委員報告……"],["高金委員素梅：不要浪費我的時間，院長你只要說您同意或者是您覺得可以來做精進，這樣就可以了。"],["陳院長建仁：我是覺得可以來做精進。"],["高金委員素梅：好，非常感謝。第三我要談到原家中心的問題，去年的6、7月我訪視了各地的原住民家扶中心，也記錄了非常多原家中心長年的問題還有它的困境，後來我在委員會裡面質詢，提出我們應該要把原家中心也納進衛福部的社會安全體系，在這裡我要給我們行政體系比個讚，不到半年的時間，我們的政務委員也已經完成跨部會的政策協調了，所以也同意把原家中心在114年度納到社安網，今年的下半年就會舉辦衛福部跟原民會的共識營，院長，114年度原住民家扶中心轉型計畫只差最後一路就可以上路了，就是要報請行政院長您核准，在這裡請問您，您同意嗎？您核准了嗎？"],["陳院長建仁：這個案子，來。"],["薛部長瑞元：跟委員報告……"],["高金委員素梅：簡單回應。"],["薛部長瑞元：對，目前正在衛福部這邊修正那個社安網計畫。"],["高金委員素梅：衛福部什麼時候修正好，然後讓我們院長他在離開看守內閣之前可以來核准？"],["薛部長瑞元：應該可以在520之前把它送出。"],["高金委員素梅：你不要519最後1天給院長。"],["薛部長瑞元：不會。"],["高金委員素梅：好，謝謝，所以院長你也同意，對不對？請他們報上來你就可以核准。"],["陳院長建仁：衛福部簽上來，他們也會跟我解釋說……"],["高金委員素梅：請衛福部是不是可以在20天內提出來讓我們的院長來核准？"],["薛部長瑞元：跟委員報告，這是整個社安網的……"],["高金委員素梅：知道啊！你們既然已經要納入了嘛！你們只是把這個計畫送到行政院而已嘛！"],["陳院長建仁：他們……"],["薛部長瑞元：但是它要整個計畫全部都……"],["高金委員素梅：不要浪費我的時間，可以嗎？20天之內？"],["陳院長建仁：可能……"],["高金委員素梅：多久的時間？"],["陳院長建仁：這是全國性的計畫，它把它放在裡面。"],["高金委員素梅：我知道，多久的時間要給院長核准？"],["陳院長建仁：他說答應你在519以前。"],["薛部長瑞元：就1個月的時間讓我能夠簽到行政院。"],["高金委員素梅：好吧！那我也同意，只要在最後1天讓我們院長能夠非常漂亮地離開我們的行政院，好不好？謝謝。繼續我要談的是禁伐補償，上次總質詢的時候，我也提到具有原住民轉型正義精神的禁伐補償條例，我提到平地休耕補助1公頃是5萬塊，然後原住民的禁伐補償1公頃只有3萬塊，非常不公平，當時你也說可以研議，我當然知道這事涉及修法，在你看守內閣期間由行政院提出版本，可能來不及了，但是我是立法委員，我會提出修法版本，然後我算過如果修法，院長您同意的話，以今年的面積來計算，我們修法每一年可以增加13.6億，院長，你是不是樂觀其成？"],["陳院長建仁：這個修法如果通過的話，那當然我們就這樣來處理。"],["高金委員素梅：好，非常謝謝院長，以上我提到的都是一些原住民族的問題，謝謝你在這邊有非常非常好的互動，而且非常好的回答。","繼續我要跟你談到食安的問題了，我看了你的食安報告，院長你總是以一句「科學」頂住了所有的詢答，我也看了非常多的資料，今天我就以自己個人的常識、認知來闡述我對食安政策的看法。在這邊我也要請院長，我希望我能夠完整的講完我的一段話之後，我都會留時間讓您回答，我們當中不要這樣針鋒相對，好不好？"],["陳院長建仁：好。"],["高金委員素梅：謝謝您。去年5月發生好市多日本綜合莓果事件，造成了全民恐慌，檢驗出含有禁用農藥氟尼胺0.1ppm，必須要全部銷毀，而我們的食藥署也暫停了好市多莓果輸入1個月的時間，結果過了8個月左右，食藥署在今年的1月24號公告修正農藥殘留容許量標準，禁用農藥氟尼胺從零檢出放寬到0.7ppm。同樣是日本莓果，8個月之前會傷害我們人民的健康，不可以吃要銷毀；8個月之後，就變成不會傷害人體健康，可以放心吃。我本來以為食藥署是經過8個月的科學驗證，日本莓果只要不超過0.7ppm的氟尼胺就對我們的健康無害，可是我在查資料之後，我發現禁用農藥氟尼胺從零檢出放寬為0.7ppm並不是科學驗證，是政治放水，因為日本交流協會提出申請，要求禁用農藥氟尼胺從零檢出放寬為0.7ppm，然而我們的食藥署也順著日本的壓力開放了，食品安全、科學驗證在這個例子裡面，我們可以看到放兩邊，政治正確擺中間，國民健康就這樣被霸凌了。請問一下院長您的看法？"],["陳院長建仁：我想這個東西是按照CODEX的國際標準來訂定的。"],["高金委員素梅：好，我理解。為什麼8個月之前是危害人體，不可以，為什麼8個月之後……"],["陳院長建仁：因為在當時是……"],["高金委員素梅：那國際標準完全沒有改變啊！"],["薛部長瑞元：跟委員報告……"],["高金委員素梅：好啦！我可以接受您的說法。院長，在這裡我接受您的說法，但是我也會提出非常多的驗證，在我們今天總質詢裡面會提出來。","好，我們再來看一下，在這次8年食安問題總檢討專案報告裡面，您下的結論是「過去8年雖然遭遇許多挑戰，然而蔡政府有效強化食安管理體系，重建國人以及全世界對臺灣食安的信賴，而食安的維護以及持續提升，是朝野共同的目標，也需要全民共同攜手來努力，讓我們彼此勉勵。」這是您說的，但是蔡政府的食安管理真的有重建國人，還有全世界對臺灣食安的信賴嗎？有守護我國的食品安全嗎？","我們來看看近年修正的農藥殘留容許量標準的內容，因為美國在臺協會申請我們的葡萄農藥殘留容量從0.3ppm放寬到0.5ppm，而歐盟的標準是0.3ppm；然後也因為日本交流協會的申請，我們的柑橘農藥殘留容許量從零檢出放寬到0.3ppm，而歐盟的標準是0.1ppm，美國跟澳洲是零檢出；也因為日本交流協會的申請，我們的葡萄農藥殘留容許量從零檢出放寬到1.5ppm，美國是0.25ppm，歐盟是0.3ppm；香瓜的農藥殘留容許量從零檢出放寬到0.07ppm，而澳洲的標準是零檢出；草莓的農藥殘留容許量從零檢出放寬到0.3ppm，澳洲的標準是零檢出；更因為日本交流協會的申請，它的紫蘇花穗的農藥殘留容許量從零檢出放寬到10.0ppm，而美國、歐盟、澳洲最多的容許量只有0.02ppm；我們再來看蘋果，蘋果的農藥殘留容許量從零檢出放寬到3.0ppm，而國際上僅僅只有日本比這個標準還高；茶的農藥殘留容許量是從零檢出放寬到10.0ppm，然而國際上也只有日本是超過這個標準；再來談葡萄，葡萄的農藥殘留容許量從零檢出放寬到1.0ppm，很湊巧地，國際上也只有日本超過這個標準，為什麼我們都要獨厚日本？進口食品的農藥殘留容許量我認為早已經被政治改到混亂無比。同樣是葡萄，美國葡萄的農藥殘留容許量是從0.3ppm放寬到0.5ppm，而日本進口到我們國內的葡萄，農藥殘留容許量是從零檢出放寬到1.0ppm，同樣是葡萄，為什麼從美國進口跟日本進口，我們放寬的ppm標準也不一樣？這到底是什麼樣的食安管理標準？","即便我剛剛提了那麼多的例子，依照院長您說的，是依照國際慣例的標準，我們為什麼一定要選擇比較差的標準去依循？"],["陳院長建仁：沒有比較差。"],["高金委員素梅：而國人的安全、科學，到底是政治還是什麼？"],["薛部長瑞元：跟委員報告，剛剛委員講的這些，你都用一個叫做農藥容許標準……"],["高金委員素梅：我知道。"],["薛部長瑞元：但它是不同的農藥，所以會有零是因為國內過去沒有用……"],["高金委員素梅：沒有，部長，不好意思，我剛剛也提到，不僅僅是這些我們放寬的容許量，美國或是澳洲或是其他國家都不一樣，我們為什麼選擇的都是比較差的呢？"],["薛部長瑞元：之所以不一樣是因為不同的農藥。"],["陳院長建仁：對。"],["高金委員素梅：好啦。"],["薛部長瑞元：不同種類的農藥，我們國內如果原先沒有用的就是零檢出，但當它來申請時，我們就會去search國際的標準到底是怎麼樣，再經由我們國內的專家委員會做最後的確認。目前……"],["高金委員素梅：為什麼我們國內的專家要確認這個的時候，不選擇總是比較低的農藥容許量呢？"],["薛部長瑞元：當然會去選擇嘛……"],["高金委員素梅：我剛剛提了那麼多的案例……"],["薛部長瑞元：但是委員在講的那些是同樣一個……"],["高金委員素梅：好了，部長，你不要在這邊……您可以有您的回答，國人都在聽，也請你尊重我剛剛提的所有問題，好不好？"],["薛部長瑞元：對，同樣一個水果的話，在日本用的農藥跟在美國用的農藥或許是不一樣的。"],["高金委員素梅：好，或許，謝謝，謝謝您的回答。"],["陳院長建仁：就是專業的考量。"],["高金委員素梅：我們再來看看蔡政府執政8年，20次修正農藥殘留容許標準，共修正放寬了312項農藥殘留容許標準，有113種是免訂容許容量；另外，8年中，總共9次修正動物用藥殘留標準，總共修正放寬了147項用藥殘留量，有23項是免訂殘留容許量，美國萊克多巴胺豬肉就是從零檢出修訂為容許10ppb開放進口。我覺得可笑的是……"],["陳院長建仁：委員，我可以回答一下嗎？"],["高金委員素梅：等一下，我還沒。可笑的是我們的臺灣豬農還是禁用萊克多巴胺，一個科學有兩種標準，這些有哪一項是根據科學驗證而修正的？這幾百項修正有很多是因為美國在臺協會及日本交流協會提出申請而修正，我認為禁藥不再是禁藥，容許殘留標準大幅放寬，我認為蔡政府的食安五環早已經被所謂的政治飛鏢射到千瘡百孔，當然，這不是您就任1年所要負的責任……"],["陳院長建仁：我不同意。"],["高金委員素梅：但是在您高舉科學護食安……"],["陳院長建仁：這就是科學……"],["高金委員素梅：我認為這豈不是唐吉軻德嗎？您可以回答，謝謝。"],["陳院長建仁：我想剛才已經講得很清楚，實際上，全世界各個國家在訂定這一個農藥殘餘容許量或者動物用藥殘餘容許量都有與時俱進，而且不同國家用的農藥種類不一樣，當我們國家訂了剛才講過的某一個產品，沒有用這個農藥的時候，我們當然是訂零啊！可是當有這個農藥的時候，我們就會改變，這就是科學……"],["高金委員素梅：對不起，院長，我提醒您一下，我剛剛提了這麼多……"],["陳院長建仁：這就是科學，另外……"],["高金委員素梅：你先休息，聽我講一下，我剛剛提了這麼多的案例是我們去查的，不管是葡萄也好，柑橘也好，也是根據國際的規定，所以國際的規定裡面我們開放，但是其他國家也有很低的標準，那麼按照您說的是按照國際的標準，我們為什麼不選擇所謂的農藥殘留量是最低的，而是要選擇某某些的協會或者是美國或者是日本提出要求我們的容許量而來做改變？那所謂的國際驗證跟國際科學到底在哪裡？"],["陳院長建仁：我可以回答嗎？"],["高金委員素梅：好，可以，謝謝。"],["陳院長建仁：你講得太好了！世界上要訂一個容許量的時候，有一個國際的標準叫做CODEX，這個CODEX的標準出來以後，它會按照這一個國家人民的攝取量是多少來訂定這一個標準是多少，我舉一個很簡單的例子……"],["高金委員素梅：不用再舉例子了，謝謝院長，您就簡單的說。"],["陳院長建仁：像黃麴毒素就是一個例子，如果黃麴毒素在美國訂的標準很高，可是臺灣因為有B型肝炎帶原的人很多、C肝的人也很多，所以我們黃麴毒素的量相對於其他國家就要來的低很多，這是因為我們要考慮……"],["高金委員素梅：很好！你講這個案例太好！我就是B肝帶原者……"],["陳院長建仁：對啊……"],["高金委員素梅：我的意思是為什麼不選擇標準高的，而是根據不同的人要求，然後……"],["陳院長建仁：就是攝取量不同嘛！攝取量不同、體重不同，國際有一個專業的算法，而這個專業的算法就是由學者專家來訂定……"],["高金委員素梅：好啦！謝謝，院長，我同意您今天的回答……"],["陳院長建仁：這就是科學嘛……"],["高金委員素梅：我不是同意你的回答，我是聽到你的回答了，我相信全國人民也聽到了……"],["陳院長建仁：對，這就是科學的訂定……"],["高金委員素梅：而且不要浪費我的時間，我下面還有一些質詢，好不好？"],["陳院長建仁：好。"],["高金委員素梅：謝謝，你已經回答了。你講那麼多，我再提醒你一下，為什麼日本的紫蘇花穗的農藥殘留容許量我們不參考美國、歐盟、澳洲的0.02，而要參考日本的10.0ppm呢？500倍耶！是美國他們比較金枝玉葉，還是我們國人比較像鋼鐵人，我們的身體可以承受500倍的農藥？可以嗎？可以這樣子嗎？"],["陳院長建仁：我剛才回答過了，我就跟你講這個跟攝食量是有關係的，如果你完全不要講科學，你就只講一個標準，那全世界不同國家的標準都不太一樣……"],["高金委員素梅：我提的也是其他國家的標準，院長。"],["陳院長建仁：你挑一個最低的標準來看，這是不公平的……"],["高金委員素梅：好，謝謝，我提的也是其他國家的標準，我只是覺得美國跟歐盟跟澳洲他們是0.02，為什麼我們就要採取日本的，好不好？"],["陳院長建仁：但是你要看全世界的range是多少……"],["高金委員素梅：所以我常常百思不得其解，為什麼我們用基本的常識認知就知道是錯誤的政策，我們的政府總是要拒絕檢討修正……"],["陳院長建仁：這不是常識吧？這要計算……"],["高金委員素梅：然後一路的捍衛到底，我們真的不知道為什麼？例如錯誤的防疫政策，我們花了8,400億，結果口罩幫、疫苗幫、快篩幫一路橫行。錯誤的非核家園能源政策，我們投入了幾個兆，深不見底的錢坑，每年還要丟幾千億，我們的電費越來越貴，缺電的陰影每天都在，而非核家園大量增加的火力發電，除了帶來空污之外，還養大了光電幫、風電幫、雲豹幫，而現在失能的農業政策，我們也養出了什麼？雞蛋幫。","院長，我以前總是苦口婆心地希望我們的政府能夠修正一下你們的錯誤政策，現在我真的恍然大悟了，這個恍然大悟是什麼？或許我們的民進黨、你們的執政團隊需要這些剛剛提到所謂的利益幫派，所以你們硬要推這些錯誤的政策。"],["陳院長建仁：這我完全不同意，而且你講的……"],["高金委員素梅：你可以不同意，但是我講的是事實……"],["陳院長建仁：你講的這些都是錯的。"],["高金委員素梅：我沒有講錯……"],["陳院長建仁：不是，你講的是錯的。"],["高金委員素梅：民間都知道有這麼多的幫派出現……"],["陳院長建仁：沒有雞蛋幫、沒有口罩幫、沒有快篩幫、沒有疫苗幫，通通沒有……"],["高金委員素梅：而大家也都清楚知道我們政府的能源政策是錯誤的。"],["陳院長建仁：所以這是你誣衊、你貼標籤所得的結果。"],["高金委員素梅：沒有。"],["陳院長建仁：有。"],["高金委員素梅：你認為我貼標籤……"],["陳院長建仁：是。"],["高金委員素梅：我們讓全國人民來聽……"],["陳院長建仁：好啊！對啊！大家來看。"],["高金委員素梅：我剛剛提到了能源政策是錯誤的能源政策……"],["陳院長建仁：這個可以訴諸於社會的公評。"],["高金委員素梅：現在不管是所有的人，全民正在接受到缺電這樣的困擾……"],["陳院長建仁：沒有缺電……"],["高金委員素梅：我們的電費也越來越高……"],["陳院長建仁：缺電也是錯誤的訊息，是貼標籤。"],["高金委員素梅：然後我們的空污也越來越多。"],["陳院長建仁：我們從來沒有缺電，是馬英九時代有缺電，現在沒有缺電，而且我們現在的備載量都是夠的，所以沒有缺電，因此你剛才講的不是正確的事實，你不能用不正確的事實來貼標籤，這個是不公平的。"],["高金委員素梅：對不起，院長，我要打斷您……"],["陳院長建仁：好，請。"],["高金委員素梅：你不能夠說我剛剛提的數據是不正確的，我希望……"],["陳院長建仁：你講缺電是不正確的喔！"],["高金委員素梅：我告訴你……"],["陳院長建仁：缺電是不正確的。"],["高金委員素梅：我提的每一個政策、所有的數據都是經過我們非常嚴謹地找出資料。"],["陳院長建仁：好，請問什麼時候缺電？你說數據，那我問你缺電的數據，你的依據在哪裡？"],["高金委員素梅：你去問問看全民有沒有突然就缺電，然後就告訴我是老鼠、告訴我是飛鼠，你去看看、你去問問看原住民的地區。"],["王部長美花：那個不叫缺電。"],["陳院長建仁：那不叫缺電啦！所以我覺得你……"],["高金委員素梅：我們都清楚知道是因為缺電，所以你們才會把這些電無緣無故的去斷電，然後提升我們所有的電量。"],["王部長美花：這個都是公開透明的資料，這個不是缺電。"],["高金委員素梅：不好意思，我提到的這些問題都是有數據的。"],["陳院長建仁：你的數據是錯的，或者你的數據是不正確的。"],["高金委員素梅：你不能夠說我的訊息是錯的，這個我不接受……"],["陳院長建仁：當然是啊！你說缺電……"],["高金委員素梅：這個訊息我不接受……"],["陳院長建仁：你告訴我什麼時候缺電？"],["高金委員素梅：對不起，院長……"],["陳院長建仁：缺電的數據是多少？"],["高金委員素梅：我們不需要在這邊用不愉快的回答跟答詢來做……"],["陳院長建仁：好，你說有數據，缺電的數據是多少？你沒有數據啊！"],["高金委員素梅：我們不可以在這邊再做這樣訊息的回答，好不好？"],["陳院長建仁：你只是講一個老鼠的事情，那不是缺電嘛！"],["高金委員素梅：我相信……"],["主席：高金委員辛苦了，謝謝，正好時間……"],["高金委員素梅：好的，謝謝。"],["主席：謝謝院長，謝謝今天的質詢、謝謝備詢。"],["高金委員素梅：謝謝韓院長。我在這邊還是要重申，我真的不接受院長說我的訊息是錯誤的，謝謝。"],["主席：院長，對不起，因為還有7分鐘，時間先暫停一下，容許我……高金委員還有7分鐘，您還有7分鐘，我把時間暫停是因為容許我跟院會報告一下……"],["高金委員素梅：好了，沒關係，我們的院長他已經定調了……"],["主席：現在時間還是暫停、現在時間還是暫停。"],["高金委員素梅：沒關係，我們的陳院長也定調了，但是我今天所提的質詢，我相信是可以接受全民的檢驗，好不好？您可以有您的說法，好嗎？謝謝。"],["陳院長建仁：社會自有公評、社會自有公評……"],["高金委員素梅：我相信社會自有公評……"],["陳院長建仁：不要貼標籤。"],["高金委員素梅：我也相信理直氣壯，謝謝。"],["主席：謝謝高金委員的質詢，謝謝陳院長的備詢。","報告院會，上午的質詢到此為止，本次會議未有委員提出臨時提案，我們就不進行臨時提案之處理，下午2時30分繼續開會，進行質詢。現在休息，謝謝。","休息（12時3分）"]],"agenda":{"page_end":174,"meet_id":"院會-11-1-3","speakers":["韓國瑜","林宜瑾","黃仁","林俊憲","邱若華","陳素月","鄭天財Sra 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639.405, \"end\": 639.726, \"score\": 0.905}, {\"word\": \"會\"}, {\"word\": \"提\", \"start\": 639.726, \"end\": 639.906, \"score\": 0.886}, {\"word\": \"出\", \"start\": 639.906, \"end\": 640.126, \"score\": 1.0}, {\"word\": \"非\", \"start\": 640.126, \"end\": 640.326, \"score\": 0.995}, {\"word\": \"常\", \"start\": 640.326, \"end\": 640.546, \"score\": 0.99}, {\"word\": \"多\", \"start\": 640.546, \"end\": 640.706, \"score\": 0.999}, {\"word\": \"的\", \"start\": 640.706, \"end\": 641.367, \"score\": 0.939}, {\"word\": \"驗\"}, {\"word\": \"證\"}, {\"word\": \"在\", \"start\": 641.367, \"end\": 641.647, \"score\": 0.999}, {\"word\": \"我\", \"start\": 641.647, \"end\": 641.907, \"score\": 0.847}, {\"word\": \"們\"}, {\"word\": \"今\", \"start\": 641.907, \"end\": 642.027, \"score\": 0.985}, {\"word\": \"天\", \"start\": 642.027, \"end\": 642.848, \"score\": 0.875}, {\"word\": \"總\"}, {\"word\": \"質\"}, {\"word\": \"詢\"}, {\"word\": \"裡\"}, {\"word\": \"面\", \"start\": 642.848, \"end\": 643.228, 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\"年\", \"start\": 647.011, \"end\": 647.391, \"score\": 0.946}, {\"word\": \"實\"}, {\"word\": \"案\", \"start\": 647.391, \"end\": 648.872, \"score\": 0.875}, {\"word\": \"問\"}, {\"word\": \"題\"}, {\"word\": \"總\"}, {\"word\": \"檢\"}, {\"word\": \"討\"}, {\"word\": \"專\"}, {\"word\": \"案\", \"start\": 648.872, \"end\": 649.253, \"score\": 0.904}, {\"word\": \"報\"}, {\"word\": \"告\", \"start\": 649.253, \"end\": 649.573, \"score\": 0.876}, {\"word\": \"裡\"}, {\"word\": \"面\", \"start\": 649.573, \"end\": 650.173, \"score\": 0.999}, {\"word\": \",\"}, {\"word\": \"您\", \"start\": 650.173, \"end\": 650.734, \"score\": 0.969}, {\"word\": \"下\", \"start\": 650.734, \"end\": 650.954, \"score\": 0.927}, {\"word\": \"的\", \"start\": 650.954, \"end\": 651.494, \"score\": 0.923}, {\"word\": \"結\"}, {\"word\": \"論\"}, {\"word\": \"是\", \"start\": 651.494, \"end\": 652.315, \"score\": 0.95}, {\"word\": \",\"}, {\"word\": \"過\"}, {\"word\": \"去\", \"start\": 652.315, \"end\": 652.475, \"score\": 0.991}, {\"word\": \"的\", \"start\": 652.475, \"end\": 652.615, \"score\": 0.997}, {\"word\": \"八\", \"start\": 652.615, \"end\": 652.835, \"score\": 0.996}, {\"word\": \"年\", \"start\": 652.835, \"end\": 653.256, \"score\": 0.91}, {\"word\": \"雖\"}, {\"word\": \"然\", \"start\": 653.256, \"end\": 653.456, \"score\": 0.999}, {\"word\": \"遭\", \"start\": 653.456, \"end\": 653.616, \"score\": 0.877}, {\"word\": \"遇\", \"start\": 653.616, \"end\": 653.796, \"score\": 0.895}, {\"word\": \"許\", \"start\": 653.796, \"end\": 653.996, \"score\": 0.85}, {\"word\": \"多\", \"start\": 653.996, \"end\": 654.116, \"score\": 0.99}, {\"word\": \"的\", \"start\": 654.116, \"end\": 654.236, \"score\": 0.982}, {\"word\": \"挑\", \"start\": 654.236, \"end\": 654.256, \"score\": 0.968}, {\"word\": \"戰\"}, {\"word\": \",\"}]}, {\"start\": 655.137, \"end\": 673.346, \"text\": \"然而蔡政府有效強化食安管理體系重建國人以及全世界對臺灣食安的信賴而食安的維護以及持續提升是朝野共同的目標也需要全民共同攜手來努力讓我們彼此勉勵這是您說的\", \"words\": [{\"word\": \"然\", \"start\": 655.137, 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\"score\": 0.947}, {\"word\": \"讓\"}, {\"word\": \"我\", \"start\": 672.366, \"end\": 672.726, \"score\": 0.906}, {\"word\": \"們\"}, {\"word\": \"彼\", \"start\": 672.726, \"end\": 672.986, \"score\": 0.92}, {\"word\": \"此\", \"start\": 672.986, \"end\": 673.006, \"score\": 0.051}, {\"word\": \"勉\"}, {\"word\": \"勵\"}, {\"word\": \"這\"}, {\"word\": \"是\", \"start\": 673.006, \"end\": 673.146, \"score\": 0.857}, {\"word\": \"您\", \"start\": 673.146, \"end\": 673.326, \"score\": 0.886}, {\"word\": \"說\"}, {\"word\": \"的\", \"start\": 673.326, \"end\": 673.346, \"score\": 0.0}]}, {\"start\": 674.767, \"end\": 690.059, \"text\": \"但是蔡政府的食安管理真的有重建國人還有全世界對臺灣食安的信賴嗎?有守護我國的食品安全嗎?我們來看看近年修正的農藥殘留容許量的標準的內容。\", \"words\": [{\"word\": \"但\", \"start\": 674.767, \"end\": 674.987, \"score\": 0.999}, {\"word\": \"是\", \"start\": 674.987, \"end\": 676.008, \"score\": 0.99}, {\"word\": \"蔡\", \"start\": 676.008, \"end\": 676.168, \"score\": 0.992}, {\"word\": \"政\", \"start\": 676.168, \"end\": 676.388, 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{\"word\": \"食\", \"start\": 683.113, \"end\": 683.254, \"score\": 0.946}, {\"word\": \"品\", \"start\": 683.254, \"end\": 683.414, \"score\": 0.882}, {\"word\": \"安\", \"start\": 683.414, \"end\": 683.654, \"score\": 0.968}, {\"word\": \"全\", \"start\": 683.654, \"end\": 684.394, \"score\": 0.969}, {\"word\": \"嗎\"}, {\"word\": \"?\"}, {\"word\": \"我\", \"start\": 684.394, \"end\": 684.795, \"score\": 0.837}, {\"word\": \"們\"}, {\"word\": \"來\"}, {\"word\": \"看\", \"start\": 684.795, \"end\": 685.095, \"score\": 0.998}, {\"word\": \"看\", \"start\": 685.095, \"end\": 685.715, \"score\": 0.996}, {\"word\": \"近\", \"start\": 685.715, \"end\": 686.076, \"score\": 0.902}, {\"word\": \"年\", \"start\": 686.076, \"end\": 686.496, \"score\": 0.997}, {\"word\": \"修\", \"start\": 686.496, \"end\": 686.756, \"score\": 0.996}, {\"word\": \"正\", \"start\": 686.756, \"end\": 686.936, \"score\": 0.908}, {\"word\": \"的\", \"start\": 686.936, \"end\": 688.177, \"score\": 0.935}, {\"word\": \"農\"}, 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906.163, \"text\": \"所以會有領是因為國內沒有過去沒有票。不好意思,我剛剛也提到了,不僅僅是這些我們放寬的容許量,美國或者是澳洲或者是其他國家都不一樣,我們為什麼選擇都是比較差的呢?之所以不一樣是因為不同的農藥,不同種類的農藥。\", \"words\": [{\"word\": \"所\", \"start\": 889.545, \"end\": 889.685, \"score\": 0.907}, {\"word\": \"以\", \"start\": 889.685, \"end\": 889.966, \"score\": 0.873}, {\"word\": \"會\"}, {\"word\": \"有\", \"start\": 889.966, \"end\": 890.526, \"score\": 0.962}, {\"word\": \"領\"}, {\"word\": \"是\", \"start\": 890.526, \"end\": 890.666, \"score\": 0.874}, {\"word\": \"因\", \"start\": 890.666, \"end\": 891.367, \"score\": 0.911}, {\"word\": \"為\"}, {\"word\": \"國\"}, {\"word\": \"內\"}, {\"word\": \"沒\", \"start\": 891.367, \"end\": 891.587, \"score\": 0.909}, {\"word\": \"有\", \"start\": 891.587, \"end\": 891.687, \"score\": 0.806}, {\"word\": \"過\"}, {\"word\": \"去\", \"start\": 891.687, \"end\": 891.868, \"score\": 0.889}, {\"word\": \"沒\", \"start\": 891.868, \"end\": 892.008, \"score\": 0.857}, {\"word\": \"有\", \"start\": 892.008, \"end\": 892.108, \"score\": 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\"start\": 1490.27, \"end\": 1490.29, \"score\": 0.0}, {\"word\": \"備\"}, {\"word\": \"詢\"}, {\"word\": \"。\"}, {\"word\": \"報\"}, {\"word\": \"告\", \"start\": 1520.287, \"end\": 1520.869, \"score\": 0.963}, {\"word\": \"院\", \"start\": 1520.869, \"end\": 1522.695, \"score\": 0.988}, {\"word\": \"會\"}, {\"word\": \"上\", \"start\": 1522.695, \"end\": 1522.915, \"score\": 0.921}, {\"word\": \"午\", \"start\": 1522.915, \"end\": 1523.617, \"score\": 0.92}, {\"word\": \"質\"}, {\"word\": \"詢\"}, {\"word\": \"到\", \"start\": 1523.617, \"end\": 1523.838, \"score\": 0.998}, {\"word\": \"此\", \"start\": 1523.838, \"end\": 1524.219, \"score\": 0.928}, {\"word\": \"為\"}, {\"word\": \"止\", \"start\": 1524.219, \"end\": 1524.239, \"score\": 0.184}, {\"word\": \"。\"}], \"language\": \"zh\"}","srt":"1\n00:00:09,724 --> 00:00:14,628\n謝謝韓院長。我們現在有請陳院長。麻煩再請陳院長備詢。院長您好。看守內閣還有兩個半月。您真是老計福利啊。辛苦了。然後呢這兩個半月雖然是看守內閣,其實呢您也可以做非常多福國利民的事情。\n\n2\n00:00:34,383 --> 00:00:54,318\n我來講一個積極正向的例子來給您聽在2016年的2月1號馬英九他提名張善政當任行政院長他作為政黨輪替的看守內閣總共109天在這109天因為張善政院長他的積極作為因此對我們園鄉有了非常多重大的改變\n\n3\n00:00:55,656 --> 00:01:20,515\n當時我對剛上任的張院長提出了我的總諮詢。我跟他提出原鄉危險的路段受限於國土富裕計畫沒有辦法進行改善。為什麼不把原鄉危險的路段還有我們的橋樑也納入可以拓寬可以新闢道路的生活圈道路交通系統建設系統。張院長他當時答覆我是說可以研議。\n\n4\n00:01:21,796 --> 00:01:48,716\n執行後的隔天我就帶著所有的資料到行政院裡面找張院長討論張院長他很快的也找來他的幕僚我們來研究結論是修改計劃並且只要由院長來合格就可以了張院長他就立刻指示一個月之內要完成這八年下來我們用生活圈道路經費改善了非常多園鄉危險的道路還有\n\n5\n00:01:49,241 --> 00:01:49,501\n﹚高金素梅\n\n6\n00:02:05,382 --> 00:02:28,238\n院長你看一個月這樣積極的作為所謂的看守內閣他可以做明快的決策會帶來一連串非常好的結果而且一直持續到未來我講這個案例是希望你也能夠有積極的作為可以嗎好謝謝我先跟你談幾個原住民的問題第一個我談的是幸福巴士這裡10月份的時候你還記得嗎\n\n7\n00:02:29,719 --> 00:02:52,926\n您提到要改善偏鄉的交通的幸福巴士。您還去過尖石鄉。當時您跟我說有很多需要精進的地方,比如說老舊的車輛需要更新。請問一下院長,現在你們怎麼精進?原鄉地區你們到底更換了多少我們的幸福巴士?這個幸福巴士的這個部分我請交通部長來做一個回應。\n\n8\n00:02:54,876 --> 00:03:14,358\n暫停一下,部長請您可以很從容的上臺,好,請您回答,謝謝。在過去的確這個幸福巴士的部分……不用說太多,你要怎麼經濟,然後你換了多少量?現在那個堅實的部分,他們我了解好像現在有一部很舊的,現在有……所以只有堅實?\n\n9\n00:03:15,499 --> 00:03:16,640\n我們也會要求相公所盡量把計畫寫好好不好謝謝您謝謝好\n\n10\n00:03:42,112 --> 00:04:05,699\n這個是幸福巴士的問題。第二個我要談的是部落聯絡道路。部落聯絡道路使用欺燃費的部分,去年我們園民會調查了所有原住民地區的公里數,它承包的經費是3.6億的道路養護經費。結果承包上來也被我們的交通部打了5折,它只核定了1.7億。增多周少的狀況之下引起很多困擾。\n\n11\n00:04:06,519 --> 00:04:30,128\n我們都知道部落的聯絡道路就是因為縣市政府長期以來沒有給原鄉的養護道路所以因為我的質詢我的要求所以我們才現在把氣燃費撥到原民會直接下到鄉公所來養護道路上一次院長你還記得嗎您在這邊也同意我要改善請問您交辦了嗎然後不足的經費會補足嗎院長\n\n12\n00:04:33,308 --> 00:04:39,190\n請您快一點回答,會還是不會?今年會不會補足我們的3.6億?您上次都說要研議啊,你現在還是研議嗎?還是我明天到行政院去找您?\n\n13\n00:04:57,959 --> 00:05:15,437\n不要浪費我的時間,院長您只要說您同意或者是您覺得可以來做精進,這樣就可以了。我是覺得可以來做精進。好,非常感謝。第三我要談到原家中心的問題。去年的6、7月我訪視了各地的原住民家福中心。\n\n14\n00:05:16,078 --> 00:05:32,004\n也記錄了非常多原家中心長年的問題還有它的困境。後來我在委員會裡面質詢提出我們應該要把原家中心也納進衛福部的社會安全體系。在這裡我要給我們行政體系比個讚。\n\n15\n00:05:33,464 --> 00:06:01,943\n不到半年的時間我們的政務委員也已經完成跨部會的政策協調了。所以呢也同意把原價中心在114年度納到社安網。今年的下半年就會舉辦衛福部跟園民會的共識營。院長114年度原住民家福中心轉型計畫只差最後一路就可以上路了。就是要報請行政院長您核准。在這裡請問您同意嗎?您核准了嗎?\n\n16\n00:06:04,061 --> 00:06:30,442\n這個案子目前的話正在衛福部這邊要修正那個事案的計畫衛福部什麼時候修正好然後讓我們院長他在離開這個看守內閣之後可以來核准應該可以在520之前520你不要52019最後一天給院長不會不會謝謝所以院長你也同意對不對請他們報上來你就可以核准衛福部簽上來他們也會跟我\n\n17\n00:06:31,583 --> 00:06:57,341\n請問福布是不是可以在20天內提出來讓我們的院長來核准?跟委員報告這是整個社安網的第二層機器還要全部要修納。你們只是把這個計畫送到行政院而已嗎?好不好?不要浪費我的時間。可以嗎?20天之內。這是全國性的計畫,他把它放在裡面。我知道,那多久的時間要給院長核准?他說導演你在519以前啊。\n\n18\n00:06:58,626 --> 00:07:05,230\n繼續我要談到的是禁法補償上次總質詢的時候我也提到具有原住民轉息正義精神的禁法補償條例我提到平地休耕的補助一公頃是五萬塊然後原住民的禁法補償一公頃只有三萬塊非常的不公平\n\n19\n00:07:27,784 --> 00:07:51,872\n當時你也說可以研議我當然知道這是涉及到修法在你看守內閣的期間是由行政院提出版本可能來不及了但是我是立法委員我會提出修法的版本然後我算過如果修法院長您同意的話我們以今年的面積來計算的話我們修法每一年可以增加13.6億院長你是不是樂觀其成\n\n20\n00:07:53,468 --> 00:08:09,242\n這個修法如果通過的話那當然我們就將來處理。好,非常謝謝院長。以上我提到的都是一些原住民族的問題。謝謝你在這邊有非常好的互動而且非常好的回答。繼續我要跟你談到食安的問題了。\n\n21\n00:08:11,240 --> 00:08:34,640\n我看了您的施安報告,院長您總是以一句科學頂住了所有的詢答。我也看了非常多的資料。今天我就以我自己個人的常識認知來闡述我對施安政策的看法。那在這邊我也要請院長,我希望我能夠完整的講完我的一段話之後呢,我都會留時間讓您回答。我們當中不要這樣針鋒相對,好不好?\n\n22\n00:08:37,122 --> 00:09:02,981\n去年5月發生好事多日本綜合美國事件,造成了全民恐慌。檢驗出含有禁用農藥弗尼安0.1ppm,必須要全部銷毀。而我們的食藥署也暫停了好事多美國輸入一個月的時間。結果,過了8個月左右,我們的食藥署在今年的1月24日公告修正了農藥殘留容許量的標準。\n\n23\n00:09:04,702 --> 00:09:23,381\n竟用農藥福尼安從零減出放寬到0.7ppm同樣是日本美國8個月之前會傷害我們人民的健康不可以吃藥銷毀8個月之後就變成不會傷害人體健康可以放心吃\n\n24\n00:09:24,022 --> 00:09:43,019\n我本來以為食藥署是經過8個月的科學驗證日本美國只要不超過0.7ppm的弗尼安就對我們的健康無害可是呢我在查資料之後我發現禁用農藥弗尼安從0.出範寬為0.7ppm並不是科學驗證是政治放水\n\n25\n00:09:49,324 --> 00:10:14,594\n因為日本交流協會提出申請,要求禁用農藥弗尼安,從零減出範寬為0.7ppm。然而我們的食藥署也順著日本的壓力開放了食品安全科學驗證在這個例子裡面我們可以看到放兩邊政治正確擺中間,國民健康就這樣被霸凌了。請問一下院長您的看法。\n\n26\n00:10:15,438 --> 00:10:29,566\n我想這一個東西是按照那個Codex的標準,這國際的標準來訂定的。好,我理解。為什麼8個月之前是危害人體,不可以。為什麼8個月之後,那國際標準完全沒有改變啊?\n\n27\n00:10:33,741 --> 00:10:54,256\n好了,我可以接受您的說法。院長我們在這裡,我接受您的說法,但是我也會提出非常多的驗證在我們今天總質詢裡面會提出來。好,我們再來看一下。在這次八年實案問題總檢討專案報告裡面,您下的結論是,過去的八年雖然遭遇許多的挑戰,\n\n28\n00:10:55,137 --> 00:11:13,346\n然而蔡政府有效強化食安管理體系重建國人以及全世界對臺灣食安的信賴而食安的維護以及持續提升是朝野共同的目標也需要全民共同攜手來努力讓我們彼此勉勵這是您說的\n\n29\n00:11:14,767 --> 00:11:30,059\n但是蔡政府的食安管理真的有重建國人還有全世界對臺灣食安的信賴嗎?有守護我國的食品安全嗎?我們來看看近年修正的農藥殘留容許量的標準的內容。\n\n30\n00:11:31,340 --> 00:11:57,418\n因為美國在臺協會他申請我們的葡萄的農藥殘留容量從0.3ppm放寬到0.5ppm而歐盟的標準是0.3ppm然後也因為日本交流協會的申請我們的甘馬甘菊我們的農藥殘留容許量從0減出放寬到0.3ppm而歐盟的標準是0.1ppm美國\n\n31\n00:11:59,861 --> 00:12:27,211\n和澳洲是零減粗也因為日本交流協會的申請我們的葡萄的農藥殘留容許量從零減粗放寬到1.5ppm美國是0.25ppm歐盟是0.3ppm香瓜香瓜的農藥殘留容許量從零減粗放寬到0.07ppm而澳洲的標準是零減粗\n\n32\n00:12:28,431 --> 00:12:38,098\n草莓的農藥產取容許量從零減除放寬到0.3ppm澳洲的標準是零減除\n\n33\n00:12:39,079 --> 00:12:57,277\n更因為日本交流協會他的申請他的紫蘇花穗的農藥殘留容許量從零減出放寬到10.0ppm而美國、歐盟、澳洲最多的容許量只有0.02ppm。\n\n34\n00:12:59,599 --> 00:13:10,906\n蘋果的農藥殘留容許量從0減出放寬到3.0ppm,而國際上僅僅只有日本比這個標準還高。茶的農業殘留容量是從0減出放寬到10.0ppm,然而國際上也只有日本是超過這個標準。\n\n35\n00:13:25,575 --> 00:13:48,202\n在談葡萄,葡萄的農藥殘留容許量從零減出放寬到1.0ppm,也很湊巧的,國際上也只有日本超過這個標準。為什麼我們都要奪後日本?進口食品的農藥殘留容許量,我認為早已經被政治改到混亂無比。同樣是\n\n36\n00:13:49,602 --> 00:14:06,106\n葡萄,美國葡萄的農藥殘留容許量是從0.3ppm放寬到0.5ppm而日本近來我們的葡萄是農藥的殘留容許量從0減出放寬到1.0ppm\n\n37\n00:14:08,467 --> 00:14:37,537\n同樣是葡萄啊為什麼從美國進口跟美國進口我們放寬的PPM的標準也不一樣這到底是什麼樣的食安管理標準即便我剛剛提了那麼多的例子所謂就依照院長您說的依照國際慣例的標準我們為什麼一定要選擇比較差的標準去依循而國人的安全科學到底是政治還是什麼\n\n38\n00:14:40,163 --> 00:14:48,262\n跟委員報告剛剛委員講的這一些你都用一個叫做農藥容許標準我知道但是它是不同的農藥\n\n39\n00:14:49,545 --> 00:15:06,163\n所以會有領是因為國內沒有過去沒有票。不好意思,我剛剛也提到了,不僅僅是這些我們放寬的容許量,美國或者是澳洲或者是其他國家都不一樣,我們為什麼選擇都是比較差的呢?之所以不一樣是因為不同的農藥,不同種類的農藥。\n\n40\n00:15:09,286 --> 00:15:23,437\n那我們國內如果原先沒有用我們就是零檢出但是當他來申請的時候我們就會去設計說這一個國際的標準到底是什麼樣子然後經由我們國內的這一個專家的\n\n41\n00:15:25,739 --> 00:15:52,097\n委員會來做最後的確認。那目前...為什麼我們國內的專家要確認這個的時候不選擇總是比較低的這個農藥允許票呢?當然會去選擇嘛,當然會去選擇嘛。我剛剛提了那麼多的這些案例。但是那些委員在講的是...好啦部長你不要在這邊,您可以有您的回答,國人都在聽,也請你尊重我們會議班提的所有的問題好不好?\n\n42\n00:15:52,557 --> 00:15:56,179\n我們再來看看蔡政府執政8年,20次修正了農藥殘留容許標準,共修正放寬了312項的農藥殘留容許標準。\n\n43\n00:16:16,693 --> 00:16:33,403\n然後有113種是免定容許容量。然後另外8年我們總共9次修正了動物用藥殘留標準。總共修正放官了147項的用藥殘留量。有23項是免定殘留容許量。\n\n44\n00:16:38,466 --> 00:16:52,697\n美國萊克多巴胺豬肉就是從零減出修訂為容許10ppb開放進口。我覺得可笑的是我們的台灣豬農還是禁用萊克多巴胺。\n\n45\n00:16:53,678 --> 00:17:20,425\n一個科學有兩種標準這些有哪一項是根據科學驗證而修正的然後這幾百項修正有很多是因為美國在台協會還有日本交流協會他們提出申請而修正我認為禁藥不再是禁藥容許殘留標準大幅放寬我認為蔡政府的食安五環早已經\n\n46\n00:17:20,865 --> 00:17:40,779\n被所謂的政治飛鏢射到千瘡百孔當然這不是您就任一年您要負的責任但是在您高舉科學護食安我認為豈不是堂吉科德嗎您可以回答謝謝\n\n47\n00:17:41,860 --> 00:18:05,739\n我想剛才已經講的很清楚實際上全世界各個國家在訂定這一個農藥殘餘容許量或者動物殘餘量都有許時進進而且不同的國家用的農藥的種類不一樣當我們國家訂了某一個剛才講過的某一個產品沒有用這個農藥的時候我們當然是訂零可是當有這個農藥的時候我們就會改變這就是科學我剛剛提的這麼多你先休息的聽我一下\n\n48\n00:18:11,403 --> 00:18:37,524\n我剛剛提了這麼多的案例是我們去查的葡萄也好柑橘也好也是根據國境的規定所以國境的規定裡面我們開放但是其他的國家他們也有很低的標準那麼按照您說的按照國際上的標準我們為什麼不選擇所謂的農藥殘留量是最低的\n\n49\n00:18:37,964 --> 00:18:39,605\n我可以回答嗎?好,可以,謝謝。你講得太好了。\n\n50\n00:18:56,218 --> 00:19:16,304\n世界上要定一個容許量的時候就有一個國際的標準叫做Codex。這個Codex的標準出來以後呢,它會按照這一個國家的人民的攝取量是多少,來定定這一個標準是多少。我舉一個很簡單的例子。不用再舉例子了,謝謝院長,你就簡單的說。黃曲獨樹就是一個例子。\n\n51\n00:19:16,724 --> 00:19:40,046\n如果黃菊毒素在美國它定的標準很高可是台灣因為有B型肝炎代言的人很多吸肝的人也很多所以我們的黃菊毒素的量就相對於其他國家要來的低很多這是因為我們要考慮你講這個案例太好我就是憋肝的代言者那我的意思是說為什麼不選擇標準差的而是根據不同的要求報告\n\n52\n00:19:41,807 --> 00:19:42,167\n謝謝,您已經回答了齁。\n\n53\n00:20:03,988 --> 00:20:28,733\n您講那麼多我再提醒您一下為什麼日本的指數花費農藥的殘留容許量我們不參考美國、歐盟、澳洲的0.02而要參考日本的10.0ppm呢?500倍耶!是美國他們比較金枝玉葉還是我們國人比較像鋼鐵人我們的身體可以承受500倍的農藥可以嗎?可以這樣子嗎?\n\n54\n00:20:29,893 --> 00:20:33,980\n我就跟你講這個跟設施量是有關係。所以\n\n55\n00:20:35,026 --> 00:21:03,772\n如果你完全不要講科學你就只講一個標準那全世界不同國家的標準我提的我提的也是其他國家的標準你挑一個最低的標準來看這是不公平的啦我提的也是其他國家的標準我只是覺得美國跟歐盟跟澳洲他們是0.02為什麼我們就要採取日本的好不好所以呢我常常百思不得其解為什麼我們用基本的常識認知就知道是錯誤的政策\n\n56\n00:21:04,292 --> 00:21:24,190\n我們的政府總是要拒絕檢討修正,然後一路的修捍衛到底,我們真的不知道為什麼。例如,錯誤的防疫政策我們花了8400億,結果口罩幫、疫苗幫、快篩幫一路橫行。錯誤的非核家園的能源政策我們投入了幾個兆。\n\n57\n00:21:25,311 --> 00:21:25,331\n委員長．\n\n58\n00:21:53,795 --> 00:22:17,518\n我以前總是苦口婆心的希望我們的政府能夠來修正一下你們的錯誤政策現在我真的恍然大悟了這個恍然大悟是什麼或許我們的民進黨你們的執政團隊需要我們這些所謂剛剛提到的這些利益幫派所以你們硬要推這些錯誤的政策\n\n59\n00:22:18,479 --> 00:22:24,967\n這我完全不同意。而且你講的這些都是錯的啦。民間都知道有這麼多的幫派出現,而大家也都清楚知道我們政府的能源政策是錯誤的。\n\n60\n00:22:37,122 --> 00:23:04,804\n好,你認為我貼標籤,我們讓全國人民來聽。我們就提,我剛剛提到了,能源政策是錯誤的能源政策。現在不管是所有的全民正在接受到缺電的這樣的困擾,我們的電費也越來越高,然後我們的空污也越來越多。缺電是馬英九時代有缺電,現在沒有缺電,而且我們現在的備載量都是夠的。\n\n61\n00:23:06,465 --> 00:23:32,804\n所以沒有缺電,所以你剛才講的不是正確的事實。那你不能用不正確的事實來貼標籤。對不起,院長我要打斷您,您不能夠說我剛剛提的數據是不正確的。我希望,我告訴你,我提的每一個政策所有的數據都是經過我們非常嚴謹的找出資料。請問什麼時候缺電?\n\n62\n00:23:33,644 --> 00:23:59,295\n你說數據那我問你缺電的數據你去問問看全民有沒有突然就缺電然後就告訴我是老鼠告訴我是飛鼠你去看看你去問問看原住民的地區我們都清楚知道是因為缺電所以你們才會把這些電然後無緣無故的去斷電然後提升\n\n63\n00:24:00,575 --> 00:24:13,958\n這個都是公開透明的資料,不是缺電。您不能夠說我的訊息是錯的,這個時候我不接受。這個訊息我不接受,對不起,院長。我們不需要在這邊用不明快的回答跟答詢來做。我們不可以在這邊再做這樣的訊息回答,好不好?\n\n64\n00:24:27,520 --> 00:24:46,564\n那個...高經緯很辛苦了,謝謝,那個...正好時間到了,不然我要呼籲一下大家。好的,好,謝謝,謝謝韓院長。我這邊還是要重申齁,我真的不接受院長說我的敘事是錯誤的,謝謝。時間先暫停一下,容許我...高經緯,還有7分鐘,您還有7分鐘。\n\n65\n00:24:49,130 --> 00:24:50,290\n謝謝高金委員的質詢。謝謝陳院長的備詢。\n\n66\n00:25:20,287 --> 00:25:24,239\n報告院會上午質詢到此為止。\n\n","tsv":"start\tend\ttext\n9724\t14628\t謝謝韓院長。我們現在有請陳院長。麻煩再請陳院長備詢。院長您好。看守內閣還有兩個半月。您真是老計福利啊。辛苦了。然後呢這兩個半月雖然是看守內閣,其實呢您也可以做非常多福國利民的事情。\n34383\t54318\t我來講一個積極正向的例子來給您聽在2016年的2月1號馬英九他提名張善政當任行政院長他作為政黨輪替的看守內閣總共109天在這109天因為張善政院長他的積極作為因此對我們園鄉有了非常多重大的改變\n55656\t80515\t當時我對剛上任的張院長提出了我的總諮詢。我跟他提出原鄉危險的路段受限於國土富裕計畫沒有辦法進行改善。為什麼不把原鄉危險的路段還有我們的橋樑也納入可以拓寬可以新闢道路的生活圈道路交通系統建設系統。張院長他當時答覆我是說可以研議。\n81796\t108716\t執行後的隔天我就帶著所有的資料到行政院裡面找張院長討論張院長他很快的也找來他的幕僚我們來研究結論是修改計劃並且只要由院長來合格就可以了張院長他就立刻指示一個月之內要完成這八年下來我們用生活圈道路經費改善了非常多園鄉危險的道路還有\n109241\t109501\t﹚高金素梅\n125382\t148238\t院長你看一個月這樣積極的作為所謂的看守內閣他可以做明快的決策會帶來一連串非常好的結果而且一直持續到未來我講這個案例是希望你也能夠有積極的作為可以嗎好謝謝我先跟你談幾個原住民的問題第一個我談的是幸福巴士這裡10月份的時候你還記得嗎\n149719\t172926\t您提到要改善偏鄉的交通的幸福巴士。您還去過尖石鄉。當時您跟我說有很多需要精進的地方,比如說老舊的車輛需要更新。請問一下院長,現在你們怎麼精進?原鄉地區你們到底更換了多少我們的幸福巴士?這個幸福巴士的這個部分我請交通部長來做一個回應。\n174876\t194358\t暫停一下,部長請您可以很從容的上臺,好,請您回答,謝謝。在過去的確這個幸福巴士的部分……不用說太多,你要怎麼經濟,然後你換了多少量?現在那個堅實的部分,他們我了解好像現在有一部很舊的,現在有……所以只有堅實?\n195499\t196640\t我們也會要求相公所盡量把計畫寫好好不好謝謝您謝謝好\n222112\t245699\t這個是幸福巴士的問題。第二個我要談的是部落聯絡道路。部落聯絡道路使用欺燃費的部分,去年我們園民會調查了所有原住民地區的公里數,它承包的經費是3.6億的道路養護經費。結果承包上來也被我們的交通部打了5折,它只核定了1.7億。增多周少的狀況之下引起很多困擾。\n246519\t270128\t我們都知道部落的聯絡道路就是因為縣市政府長期以來沒有給原鄉的養護道路所以因為我的質詢我的要求所以我們才現在把氣燃費撥到原民會直接下到鄉公所來養護道路上一次院長你還記得嗎您在這邊也同意我要改善請問您交辦了嗎然後不足的經費會補足嗎院長\n273308\t279190\t請您快一點回答,會還是不會?今年會不會補足我們的3.6億?您上次都說要研議啊,你現在還是研議嗎?還是我明天到行政院去找您?\n297959\t315437\t不要浪費我的時間,院長您只要說您同意或者是您覺得可以來做精進,這樣就可以了。我是覺得可以來做精進。好,非常感謝。第三我要談到原家中心的問題。去年的6、7月我訪視了各地的原住民家福中心。\n316078\t332004\t也記錄了非常多原家中心長年的問題還有它的困境。後來我在委員會裡面質詢提出我們應該要把原家中心也納進衛福部的社會安全體系。在這裡我要給我們行政體系比個讚。\n333464\t361943\t不到半年的時間我們的政務委員也已經完成跨部會的政策協調了。所以呢也同意把原價中心在114年度納到社安網。今年的下半年就會舉辦衛福部跟園民會的共識營。院長114年度原住民家福中心轉型計畫只差最後一路就可以上路了。就是要報請行政院長您核准。在這裡請問您同意嗎?您核准了嗎?\n364061\t390442\t這個案子目前的話正在衛福部這邊要修正那個事案的計畫衛福部什麼時候修正好然後讓我們院長他在離開這個看守內閣之後可以來核准應該可以在520之前520你不要52019最後一天給院長不會不會謝謝所以院長你也同意對不對請他們報上來你就可以核准衛福部簽上來他們也會跟我\n391583\t417341\t請問福布是不是可以在20天內提出來讓我們的院長來核准?跟委員報告這是整個社安網的第二層機器還要全部要修納。你們只是把這個計畫送到行政院而已嗎?好不好?不要浪費我的時間。可以嗎?20天之內。這是全國性的計畫,他把它放在裡面。我知道,那多久的時間要給院長核准?他說導演你在519以前啊。\n418626\t425230\t繼續我要談到的是禁法補償上次總質詢的時候我也提到具有原住民轉息正義精神的禁法補償條例我提到平地休耕的補助一公頃是五萬塊然後原住民的禁法補償一公頃只有三萬塊非常的不公平\n447784\t471872\t當時你也說可以研議我當然知道這是涉及到修法在你看守內閣的期間是由行政院提出版本可能來不及了但是我是立法委員我會提出修法的版本然後我算過如果修法院長您同意的話我們以今年的面積來計算的話我們修法每一年可以增加13.6億院長你是不是樂觀其成\n473468\t489242\t這個修法如果通過的話那當然我們就將來處理。好,非常謝謝院長。以上我提到的都是一些原住民族的問題。謝謝你在這邊有非常好的互動而且非常好的回答。繼續我要跟你談到食安的問題了。\n491240\t514640\t我看了您的施安報告,院長您總是以一句科學頂住了所有的詢答。我也看了非常多的資料。今天我就以我自己個人的常識認知來闡述我對施安政策的看法。那在這邊我也要請院長,我希望我能夠完整的講完我的一段話之後呢,我都會留時間讓您回答。我們當中不要這樣針鋒相對,好不好?\n517122\t542981\t去年5月發生好事多日本綜合美國事件,造成了全民恐慌。檢驗出含有禁用農藥弗尼安0.1ppm,必須要全部銷毀。而我們的食藥署也暫停了好事多美國輸入一個月的時間。結果,過了8個月左右,我們的食藥署在今年的1月24日公告修正了農藥殘留容許量的標準。\n544702\t563381\t竟用農藥福尼安從零減出放寬到0.7ppm同樣是日本美國8個月之前會傷害我們人民的健康不可以吃藥銷毀8個月之後就變成不會傷害人體健康可以放心吃\n564022\t583019\t我本來以為食藥署是經過8個月的科學驗證日本美國只要不超過0.7ppm的弗尼安就對我們的健康無害可是呢我在查資料之後我發現禁用農藥弗尼安從0.出範寬為0.7ppm並不是科學驗證是政治放水\n589324\t614594\t因為日本交流協會提出申請,要求禁用農藥弗尼安,從零減出範寬為0.7ppm。然而我們的食藥署也順著日本的壓力開放了食品安全科學驗證在這個例子裡面我們可以看到放兩邊政治正確擺中間,國民健康就這樣被霸凌了。請問一下院長您的看法。\n615438\t629566\t我想這一個東西是按照那個Codex的標準,這國際的標準來訂定的。好,我理解。為什麼8個月之前是危害人體,不可以。為什麼8個月之後,那國際標準完全沒有改變啊?\n633741\t654256\t好了,我可以接受您的說法。院長我們在這裡,我接受您的說法,但是我也會提出非常多的驗證在我們今天總質詢裡面會提出來。好,我們再來看一下。在這次八年實案問題總檢討專案報告裡面,您下的結論是,過去的八年雖然遭遇許多的挑戰,\n655137\t673346\t然而蔡政府有效強化食安管理體系重建國人以及全世界對臺灣食安的信賴而食安的維護以及持續提升是朝野共同的目標也需要全民共同攜手來努力讓我們彼此勉勵這是您說的\n674767\t690059\t但是蔡政府的食安管理真的有重建國人還有全世界對臺灣食安的信賴嗎?有守護我國的食品安全嗎?我們來看看近年修正的農藥殘留容許量的標準的內容。\n691340\t717418\t因為美國在臺協會他申請我們的葡萄的農藥殘留容量從0.3ppm放寬到0.5ppm而歐盟的標準是0.3ppm然後也因為日本交流協會的申請我們的甘馬甘菊我們的農藥殘留容許量從0減出放寬到0.3ppm而歐盟的標準是0.1ppm美國\n719861\t747211\t和澳洲是零減粗也因為日本交流協會的申請我們的葡萄的農藥殘留容許量從零減粗放寬到1.5ppm美國是0.25ppm歐盟是0.3ppm香瓜香瓜的農藥殘留容許量從零減粗放寬到0.07ppm而澳洲的標準是零減粗\n748431\t758098\t草莓的農藥產取容許量從零減除放寬到0.3ppm澳洲的標準是零減除\n759079\t777277\t更因為日本交流協會他的申請他的紫蘇花穗的農藥殘留容許量從零減出放寬到10.0ppm而美國、歐盟、澳洲最多的容許量只有0.02ppm。\n779599\t790906\t蘋果的農藥殘留容許量從0減出放寬到3.0ppm,而國際上僅僅只有日本比這個標準還高。茶的農業殘留容量是從0減出放寬到10.0ppm,然而國際上也只有日本是超過這個標準。\n805575\t828202\t在談葡萄,葡萄的農藥殘留容許量從零減出放寬到1.0ppm,也很湊巧的,國際上也只有日本超過這個標準。為什麼我們都要奪後日本?進口食品的農藥殘留容許量,我認為早已經被政治改到混亂無比。同樣是\n829602\t846106\t葡萄,美國葡萄的農藥殘留容許量是從0.3ppm放寬到0.5ppm而日本近來我們的葡萄是農藥的殘留容許量從0減出放寬到1.0ppm\n848467\t877537\t同樣是葡萄啊為什麼從美國進口跟美國進口我們放寬的PPM的標準也不一樣這到底是什麼樣的食安管理標準即便我剛剛提了那麼多的例子所謂就依照院長您說的依照國際慣例的標準我們為什麼一定要選擇比較差的標準去依循而國人的安全科學到底是政治還是什麼\n880163\t888262\t跟委員報告剛剛委員講的這一些你都用一個叫做農藥容許標準我知道但是它是不同的農藥\n889545\t906163\t所以會有領是因為國內沒有過去沒有票。不好意思,我剛剛也提到了,不僅僅是這些我們放寬的容許量,美國或者是澳洲或者是其他國家都不一樣,我們為什麼選擇都是比較差的呢?之所以不一樣是因為不同的農藥,不同種類的農藥。\n909286\t923437\t那我們國內如果原先沒有用我們就是零檢出但是當他來申請的時候我們就會去設計說這一個國際的標準到底是什麼樣子然後經由我們國內的這一個專家的\n925739\t952097\t委員會來做最後的確認。那目前...為什麼我們國內的專家要確認這個的時候不選擇總是比較低的這個農藥允許票呢?當然會去選擇嘛,當然會去選擇嘛。我剛剛提了那麼多的這些案例。但是那些委員在講的是...好啦部長你不要在這邊,您可以有您的回答,國人都在聽,也請你尊重我們會議班提的所有的問題好不好?\n952557\t956179\t我們再來看看蔡政府執政8年,20次修正了農藥殘留容許標準,共修正放寬了312項的農藥殘留容許標準。\n976693\t993403\t然後有113種是免定容許容量。然後另外8年我們總共9次修正了動物用藥殘留標準。總共修正放官了147項的用藥殘留量。有23項是免定殘留容許量。\n998466\t1012697\t美國萊克多巴胺豬肉就是從零減出修訂為容許10ppb開放進口。我覺得可笑的是我們的台灣豬農還是禁用萊克多巴胺。\n1013678\t1040425\t一個科學有兩種標準這些有哪一項是根據科學驗證而修正的然後這幾百項修正有很多是因為美國在台協會還有日本交流協會他們提出申請而修正我認為禁藥不再是禁藥容許殘留標準大幅放寬我認為蔡政府的食安五環早已經\n1040865\t1060779\t被所謂的政治飛鏢射到千瘡百孔當然這不是您就任一年您要負的責任但是在您高舉科學護食安我認為豈不是堂吉科德嗎您可以回答謝謝\n1061860\t1085739\t我想剛才已經講的很清楚實際上全世界各個國家在訂定這一個農藥殘餘容許量或者動物殘餘量都有許時進進而且不同的國家用的農藥的種類不一樣當我們國家訂了某一個剛才講過的某一個產品沒有用這個農藥的時候我們當然是訂零可是當有這個農藥的時候我們就會改變這就是科學我剛剛提的這麼多你先休息的聽我一下\n1091403\t1117524\t我剛剛提了這麼多的案例是我們去查的葡萄也好柑橘也好也是根據國境的規定所以國境的規定裡面我們開放但是其他的國家他們也有很低的標準那麼按照您說的按照國際上的標準我們為什麼不選擇所謂的農藥殘留量是最低的\n1117964\t1119605\t我可以回答嗎?好,可以,謝謝。你講得太好了。\n1136218\t1156304\t世界上要定一個容許量的時候就有一個國際的標準叫做Codex。這個Codex的標準出來以後呢,它會按照這一個國家的人民的攝取量是多少,來定定這一個標準是多少。我舉一個很簡單的例子。不用再舉例子了,謝謝院長,你就簡單的說。黃曲獨樹就是一個例子。\n1156724\t1180046\t如果黃菊毒素在美國它定的標準很高可是台灣因為有B型肝炎代言的人很多吸肝的人也很多所以我們的黃菊毒素的量就相對於其他國家要來的低很多這是因為我們要考慮你講這個案例太好我就是憋肝的代言者那我的意思是說為什麼不選擇標準差的而是根據不同的要求報告\n1181807\t1182167\t謝謝,您已經回答了齁。\n1203988\t1228733\t您講那麼多我再提醒您一下為什麼日本的指數花費農藥的殘留容許量我們不參考美國、歐盟、澳洲的0.02而要參考日本的10.0 ppm呢?500倍耶!是美國他們比較金枝玉葉還是我們國人比較像鋼鐵人我們的身體可以承受500倍的農藥可以嗎?可以這樣子嗎?\n1229893\t1233980\t我就跟你講這個跟設施量是有關係。所以\n1235026\t1263772\t如果你完全不要講科學你就只講一個標準那全世界不同國家的標準我提的我提的也是其他國家的標準你挑一個最低的標準來看這是不公平的啦我提的也是其他國家的標準我只是覺得美國跟歐盟跟澳洲他們是0.02為什麼我們就要採取日本的好不好所以呢我常常百思不得其解為什麼我們用基本的常識認知就知道是錯誤的政策\n1264292\t1284190\t我們的政府總是要拒絕檢討修正,然後一路的修捍衛到底,我們真的不知道為什麼。例如,錯誤的防疫政策我們花了8400億,結果口罩幫、疫苗幫、快篩幫一路橫行。錯誤的非核家園的能源政策我們投入了幾個兆。\n1285311\t1285331\t委員長．\n1313795\t1337518\t我以前總是苦口婆心的希望我們的政府能夠來修正一下你們的錯誤政策現在我真的恍然大悟了這個恍然大悟是什麼或許我們的民進黨你們的執政團隊需要我們這些所謂剛剛提到的這些利益幫派所以你們硬要推這些錯誤的政策\n1338479\t1344967\t這我完全不同意。而且你講的這些都是錯的啦。民間都知道有這麼多的幫派出現,而大家也都清楚知道我們政府的能源政策是錯誤的。\n1357122\t1384804\t好,你認為我貼標籤,我們讓全國人民來聽。我們就提,我剛剛提到了,能源政策是錯誤的能源政策。現在不管是所有的全民正在接受到缺電的這樣的困擾,我們的電費也越來越高,然後我們的空污也越來越多。缺電是馬英九時代有缺電,現在沒有缺電,而且我們現在的備載量都是夠的。\n1386465\t1412804\t所以沒有缺電,所以你剛才講的不是正確的事實。那你不能用不正確的事實來貼標籤。對不起,院長我要打斷您,您不能夠說我剛剛提的數據是不正確的。我希望,我告訴你,我提的每一個政策所有的數據都是經過我們非常嚴謹的找出資料。請問什麼時候缺電?\n1413644\t1439295\t你說數據那我問你缺電的數據你去問問看全民有沒有突然就缺電然後就告訴我是老鼠告訴我是飛鼠你去看看你去問問看原住民的地區我們都清楚知道是因為缺電所以你們才會把這些電然後無緣無故的去斷電然後提升\n1440575\t1453958\t這個都是公開透明的資料,不是缺電。您不能夠說我的訊息是錯的,這個時候我不接受。這個訊息我不接受,對不起,院長。我們不需要在這邊用不明快的回答跟答詢來做。我們不可以在這邊再做這樣的訊息回答,好不好?\n1467520\t1486564\t那個...高經緯很辛苦了,謝謝,那個...正好時間到了,不然我要呼籲一下大家。好的,好,謝謝,謝謝韓院長。我這邊還是要重申齁,我真的不接受院長說我的敘事是錯誤的,謝謝。時間先暫停一下,容許我...高經緯,還有7分鐘,您還有7分鐘。\n1489130\t1490290\t謝謝高金委員的質詢。謝謝陳院長的備詢。\n1520287\t1524239\t報告院會上午質詢到此為止。\n","txt":"謝謝韓院長。我們現在有請陳院長。麻煩再請陳院長備詢。院長您好。看守內閣還有兩個半月。您真是老計福利啊。辛苦了。然後呢這兩個半月雖然是看守內閣,其實呢您也可以做非常多福國利民的事情。\n我來講一個積極正向的例子來給您聽在2016年的2月1號馬英九他提名張善政當任行政院長他作為政黨輪替的看守內閣總共109天在這109天因為張善政院長他的積極作為因此對我們園鄉有了非常多重大的改變\n當時我對剛上任的張院長提出了我的總諮詢。我跟他提出原鄉危險的路段受限於國土富裕計畫沒有辦法進行改善。為什麼不把原鄉危險的路段還有我們的橋樑也納入可以拓寬可以新闢道路的生活圈道路交通系統建設系統。張院長他當時答覆我是說可以研議。\n執行後的隔天我就帶著所有的資料到行政院裡面找張院長討論張院長他很快的也找來他的幕僚我們來研究結論是修改計劃並且只要由院長來合格就可以了張院長他就立刻指示一個月之內要完成這八年下來我們用生活圈道路經費改善了非常多園鄉危險的道路還有\n﹚高金素梅\n院長你看一個月這樣積極的作為所謂的看守內閣他可以做明快的決策會帶來一連串非常好的結果而且一直持續到未來我講這個案例是希望你也能夠有積極的作為可以嗎好謝謝我先跟你談幾個原住民的問題第一個我談的是幸福巴士這裡10月份的時候你還記得嗎\n您提到要改善偏鄉的交通的幸福巴士。您還去過尖石鄉。當時您跟我說有很多需要精進的地方,比如說老舊的車輛需要更新。請問一下院長,現在你們怎麼精進?原鄉地區你們到底更換了多少我們的幸福巴士?這個幸福巴士的這個部分我請交通部長來做一個回應。\n暫停一下,部長請您可以很從容的上臺,好,請您回答,謝謝。在過去的確這個幸福巴士的部分……不用說太多,你要怎麼經濟,然後你換了多少量?現在那個堅實的部分,他們我了解好像現在有一部很舊的,現在有……所以只有堅實?\n我們也會要求相公所盡量把計畫寫好好不好謝謝您謝謝好\n這個是幸福巴士的問題。第二個我要談的是部落聯絡道路。部落聯絡道路使用欺燃費的部分,去年我們園民會調查了所有原住民地區的公里數,它承包的經費是3.6億的道路養護經費。結果承包上來也被我們的交通部打了5折,它只核定了1.7億。增多周少的狀況之下引起很多困擾。\n我們都知道部落的聯絡道路就是因為縣市政府長期以來沒有給原鄉的養護道路所以因為我的質詢我的要求所以我們才現在把氣燃費撥到原民會直接下到鄉公所來養護道路上一次院長你還記得嗎您在這邊也同意我要改善請問您交辦了嗎然後不足的經費會補足嗎院長\n請您快一點回答,會還是不會?今年會不會補足我們的3.6億?您上次都說要研議啊,你現在還是研議嗎?還是我明天到行政院去找您?\n不要浪費我的時間,院長您只要說您同意或者是您覺得可以來做精進,這樣就可以了。我是覺得可以來做精進。好,非常感謝。第三我要談到原家中心的問題。去年的6、7月我訪視了各地的原住民家福中心。\n也記錄了非常多原家中心長年的問題還有它的困境。後來我在委員會裡面質詢提出我們應該要把原家中心也納進衛福部的社會安全體系。在這裡我要給我們行政體系比個讚。\n不到半年的時間我們的政務委員也已經完成跨部會的政策協調了。所以呢也同意把原價中心在114年度納到社安網。今年的下半年就會舉辦衛福部跟園民會的共識營。院長114年度原住民家福中心轉型計畫只差最後一路就可以上路了。就是要報請行政院長您核准。在這裡請問您同意嗎?您核准了嗎?\n這個案子目前的話正在衛福部這邊要修正那個事案的計畫衛福部什麼時候修正好然後讓我們院長他在離開這個看守內閣之後可以來核准應該可以在520之前520你不要52019最後一天給院長不會不會謝謝所以院長你也同意對不對請他們報上來你就可以核准衛福部簽上來他們也會跟我\n請問福布是不是可以在20天內提出來讓我們的院長來核准?跟委員報告這是整個社安網的第二層機器還要全部要修納。你們只是把這個計畫送到行政院而已嗎?好不好?不要浪費我的時間。可以嗎?20天之內。這是全國性的計畫,他把它放在裡面。我知道,那多久的時間要給院長核准?他說導演你在519以前啊。\n繼續我要談到的是禁法補償上次總質詢的時候我也提到具有原住民轉息正義精神的禁法補償條例我提到平地休耕的補助一公頃是五萬塊然後原住民的禁法補償一公頃只有三萬塊非常的不公平\n當時你也說可以研議我當然知道這是涉及到修法在你看守內閣的期間是由行政院提出版本可能來不及了但是我是立法委員我會提出修法的版本然後我算過如果修法院長您同意的話我們以今年的面積來計算的話我們修法每一年可以增加13.6億院長你是不是樂觀其成\n這個修法如果通過的話那當然我們就將來處理。好,非常謝謝院長。以上我提到的都是一些原住民族的問題。謝謝你在這邊有非常好的互動而且非常好的回答。繼續我要跟你談到食安的問題了。\n我看了您的施安報告,院長您總是以一句科學頂住了所有的詢答。我也看了非常多的資料。今天我就以我自己個人的常識認知來闡述我對施安政策的看法。那在這邊我也要請院長,我希望我能夠完整的講完我的一段話之後呢,我都會留時間讓您回答。我們當中不要這樣針鋒相對,好不好?\n去年5月發生好事多日本綜合美國事件,造成了全民恐慌。檢驗出含有禁用農藥弗尼安0.1ppm,必須要全部銷毀。而我們的食藥署也暫停了好事多美國輸入一個月的時間。結果,過了8個月左右,我們的食藥署在今年的1月24日公告修正了農藥殘留容許量的標準。\n竟用農藥福尼安從零減出放寬到0.7ppm同樣是日本美國8個月之前會傷害我們人民的健康不可以吃藥銷毀8個月之後就變成不會傷害人體健康可以放心吃\n我本來以為食藥署是經過8個月的科學驗證日本美國只要不超過0.7ppm的弗尼安就對我們的健康無害可是呢我在查資料之後我發現禁用農藥弗尼安從0.出範寬為0.7ppm並不是科學驗證是政治放水\n因為日本交流協會提出申請,要求禁用農藥弗尼安,從零減出範寬為0.7ppm。然而我們的食藥署也順著日本的壓力開放了食品安全科學驗證在這個例子裡面我們可以看到放兩邊政治正確擺中間,國民健康就這樣被霸凌了。請問一下院長您的看法。\n我想這一個東西是按照那個Codex的標準,這國際的標準來訂定的。好,我理解。為什麼8個月之前是危害人體,不可以。為什麼8個月之後,那國際標準完全沒有改變啊?\n好了,我可以接受您的說法。院長我們在這裡,我接受您的說法,但是我也會提出非常多的驗證在我們今天總質詢裡面會提出來。好,我們再來看一下。在這次八年實案問題總檢討專案報告裡面,您下的結論是,過去的八年雖然遭遇許多的挑戰,\n然而蔡政府有效強化食安管理體系重建國人以及全世界對臺灣食安的信賴而食安的維護以及持續提升是朝野共同的目標也需要全民共同攜手來努力讓我們彼此勉勵這是您說的\n但是蔡政府的食安管理真的有重建國人還有全世界對臺灣食安的信賴嗎?有守護我國的食品安全嗎?我們來看看近年修正的農藥殘留容許量的標準的內容。\n因為美國在臺協會他申請我們的葡萄的農藥殘留容量從0.3ppm放寬到0.5ppm而歐盟的標準是0.3ppm然後也因為日本交流協會的申請我們的甘馬甘菊我們的農藥殘留容許量從0減出放寬到0.3ppm而歐盟的標準是0.1ppm美國\n和澳洲是零減粗也因為日本交流協會的申請我們的葡萄的農藥殘留容許量從零減粗放寬到1.5ppm美國是0.25ppm歐盟是0.3ppm香瓜香瓜的農藥殘留容許量從零減粗放寬到0.07ppm而澳洲的標準是零減粗\n草莓的農藥產取容許量從零減除放寬到0.3ppm澳洲的標準是零減除\n更因為日本交流協會他的申請他的紫蘇花穗的農藥殘留容許量從零減出放寬到10.0ppm而美國、歐盟、澳洲最多的容許量只有0.02ppm。\n蘋果的農藥殘留容許量從0減出放寬到3.0ppm,而國際上僅僅只有日本比這個標準還高。茶的農業殘留容量是從0減出放寬到10.0ppm,然而國際上也只有日本是超過這個標準。\n在談葡萄,葡萄的農藥殘留容許量從零減出放寬到1.0ppm,也很湊巧的,國際上也只有日本超過這個標準。為什麼我們都要奪後日本?進口食品的農藥殘留容許量,我認為早已經被政治改到混亂無比。同樣是\n葡萄,美國葡萄的農藥殘留容許量是從0.3ppm放寬到0.5ppm而日本近來我們的葡萄是農藥的殘留容許量從0減出放寬到1.0ppm\n同樣是葡萄啊為什麼從美國進口跟美國進口我們放寬的PPM的標準也不一樣這到底是什麼樣的食安管理標準即便我剛剛提了那麼多的例子所謂就依照院長您說的依照國際慣例的標準我們為什麼一定要選擇比較差的標準去依循而國人的安全科學到底是政治還是什麼\n跟委員報告剛剛委員講的這一些你都用一個叫做農藥容許標準我知道但是它是不同的農藥\n所以會有領是因為國內沒有過去沒有票。不好意思,我剛剛也提到了,不僅僅是這些我們放寬的容許量,美國或者是澳洲或者是其他國家都不一樣,我們為什麼選擇都是比較差的呢?之所以不一樣是因為不同的農藥,不同種類的農藥。\n那我們國內如果原先沒有用我們就是零檢出但是當他來申請的時候我們就會去設計說這一個國際的標準到底是什麼樣子然後經由我們國內的這一個專家的\n委員會來做最後的確認。那目前...為什麼我們國內的專家要確認這個的時候不選擇總是比較低的這個農藥允許票呢?當然會去選擇嘛,當然會去選擇嘛。我剛剛提了那麼多的這些案例。但是那些委員在講的是...好啦部長你不要在這邊,您可以有您的回答,國人都在聽,也請你尊重我們會議班提的所有的問題好不好?\n我們再來看看蔡政府執政8年,20次修正了農藥殘留容許標準,共修正放寬了312項的農藥殘留容許標準。\n然後有113種是免定容許容量。然後另外8年我們總共9次修正了動物用藥殘留標準。總共修正放官了147項的用藥殘留量。有23項是免定殘留容許量。\n美國萊克多巴胺豬肉就是從零減出修訂為容許10ppb開放進口。我覺得可笑的是我們的台灣豬農還是禁用萊克多巴胺。\n一個科學有兩種標準這些有哪一項是根據科學驗證而修正的然後這幾百項修正有很多是因為美國在台協會還有日本交流協會他們提出申請而修正我認為禁藥不再是禁藥容許殘留標準大幅放寬我認為蔡政府的食安五環早已經\n被所謂的政治飛鏢射到千瘡百孔當然這不是您就任一年您要負的責任但是在您高舉科學護食安我認為豈不是堂吉科德嗎您可以回答謝謝\n我想剛才已經講的很清楚實際上全世界各個國家在訂定這一個農藥殘餘容許量或者動物殘餘量都有許時進進而且不同的國家用的農藥的種類不一樣當我們國家訂了某一個剛才講過的某一個產品沒有用這個農藥的時候我們當然是訂零可是當有這個農藥的時候我們就會改變這就是科學我剛剛提的這麼多你先休息的聽我一下\n我剛剛提了這麼多的案例是我們去查的葡萄也好柑橘也好也是根據國境的規定所以國境的規定裡面我們開放但是其他的國家他們也有很低的標準那麼按照您說的按照國際上的標準我們為什麼不選擇所謂的農藥殘留量是最低的\n我可以回答嗎?好,可以,謝謝。你講得太好了。\n世界上要定一個容許量的時候就有一個國際的標準叫做Codex。這個Codex的標準出來以後呢,它會按照這一個國家的人民的攝取量是多少,來定定這一個標準是多少。我舉一個很簡單的例子。不用再舉例子了,謝謝院長,你就簡單的說。黃曲獨樹就是一個例子。\n如果黃菊毒素在美國它定的標準很高可是台灣因為有B型肝炎代言的人很多吸肝的人也很多所以我們的黃菊毒素的量就相對於其他國家要來的低很多這是因為我們要考慮你講這個案例太好我就是憋肝的代言者那我的意思是說為什麼不選擇標準差的而是根據不同的要求報告\n謝謝,您已經回答了齁。\n您講那麼多我再提醒您一下為什麼日本的指數花費農藥的殘留容許量我們不參考美國、歐盟、澳洲的0.02而要參考日本的10.0 ppm呢?500倍耶!是美國他們比較金枝玉葉還是我們國人比較像鋼鐵人我們的身體可以承受500倍的農藥可以嗎?可以這樣子嗎?\n我就跟你講這個跟設施量是有關係。所以\n如果你完全不要講科學你就只講一個標準那全世界不同國家的標準我提的我提的也是其他國家的標準你挑一個最低的標準來看這是不公平的啦我提的也是其他國家的標準我只是覺得美國跟歐盟跟澳洲他們是0.02為什麼我們就要採取日本的好不好所以呢我常常百思不得其解為什麼我們用基本的常識認知就知道是錯誤的政策\n我們的政府總是要拒絕檢討修正,然後一路的修捍衛到底,我們真的不知道為什麼。例如,錯誤的防疫政策我們花了8400億,結果口罩幫、疫苗幫、快篩幫一路橫行。錯誤的非核家園的能源政策我們投入了幾個兆。\n委員長．\n我以前總是苦口婆心的希望我們的政府能夠來修正一下你們的錯誤政策現在我真的恍然大悟了這個恍然大悟是什麼或許我們的民進黨你們的執政團隊需要我們這些所謂剛剛提到的這些利益幫派所以你們硬要推這些錯誤的政策\n這我完全不同意。而且你講的這些都是錯的啦。民間都知道有這麼多的幫派出現,而大家也都清楚知道我們政府的能源政策是錯誤的。\n好,你認為我貼標籤,我們讓全國人民來聽。我們就提,我剛剛提到了,能源政策是錯誤的能源政策。現在不管是所有的全民正在接受到缺電的這樣的困擾,我們的電費也越來越高,然後我們的空污也越來越多。缺電是馬英九時代有缺電,現在沒有缺電,而且我們現在的備載量都是夠的。\n所以沒有缺電,所以你剛才講的不是正確的事實。那你不能用不正確的事實來貼標籤。對不起,院長我要打斷您,您不能夠說我剛剛提的數據是不正確的。我希望,我告訴你,我提的每一個政策所有的數據都是經過我們非常嚴謹的找出資料。請問什麼時候缺電?\n你說數據那我問你缺電的數據你去問問看全民有沒有突然就缺電然後就告訴我是老鼠告訴我是飛鼠你去看看你去問問看原住民的地區我們都清楚知道是因為缺電所以你們才會把這些電然後無緣無故的去斷電然後提升\n這個都是公開透明的資料,不是缺電。您不能夠說我的訊息是錯的,這個時候我不接受。這個訊息我不接受,對不起,院長。我們不需要在這邊用不明快的回答跟答詢來做。我們不可以在這邊再做這樣的訊息回答,好不好?\n那個...高經緯很辛苦了,謝謝,那個...正好時間到了,不然我要呼籲一下大家。好的,好,謝謝,謝謝韓院長。我這邊還是要重申齁,我真的不接受院長說我的敘事是錯誤的,謝謝。時間先暫停一下,容許我...高經緯,還有7分鐘,您還有7分鐘。\n謝謝高金委員的質詢。謝謝陳院長的備詢。\n報告院會上午質詢到此為止。\n","vtt":"WEBVTT\n\n00:09.724 --> 00:14.628\n謝謝韓院長。我們現在有請陳院長。麻煩再請陳院長備詢。院長您好。看守內閣還有兩個半月。您真是老計福利啊。辛苦了。然後呢這兩個半月雖然是看守內閣,其實呢您也可以做非常多福國利民的事情。\n\n00:34.383 --> 00:54.318\n我來講一個積極正向的例子來給您聽在2016年的2月1號馬英九他提名張善政當任行政院長他作為政黨輪替的看守內閣總共109天在這109天因為張善政院長他的積極作為因此對我們園鄉有了非常多重大的改變\n\n00:55.656 --> 01:20.515\n當時我對剛上任的張院長提出了我的總諮詢。我跟他提出原鄉危險的路段受限於國土富裕計畫沒有辦法進行改善。為什麼不把原鄉危險的路段還有我們的橋樑也納入可以拓寬可以新闢道路的生活圈道路交通系統建設系統。張院長他當時答覆我是說可以研議。\n\n01:21.796 --> 01:48.716\n執行後的隔天我就帶著所有的資料到行政院裡面找張院長討論張院長他很快的也找來他的幕僚我們來研究結論是修改計劃並且只要由院長來合格就可以了張院長他就立刻指示一個月之內要完成這八年下來我們用生活圈道路經費改善了非常多園鄉危險的道路還有\n\n01:49.241 --> 01:49.501\n﹚高金素梅\n\n02:05.382 --> 02:28.238\n院長你看一個月這樣積極的作為所謂的看守內閣他可以做明快的決策會帶來一連串非常好的結果而且一直持續到未來我講這個案例是希望你也能夠有積極的作為可以嗎好謝謝我先跟你談幾個原住民的問題第一個我談的是幸福巴士這裡10月份的時候你還記得嗎\n\n02:29.719 --> 02:52.926\n您提到要改善偏鄉的交通的幸福巴士。您還去過尖石鄉。當時您跟我說有很多需要精進的地方,比如說老舊的車輛需要更新。請問一下院長,現在你們怎麼精進?原鄉地區你們到底更換了多少我們的幸福巴士?這個幸福巴士的這個部分我請交通部長來做一個回應。\n\n02:54.876 --> 03:14.358\n暫停一下,部長請您可以很從容的上臺,好,請您回答,謝謝。在過去的確這個幸福巴士的部分……不用說太多,你要怎麼經濟,然後你換了多少量?現在那個堅實的部分,他們我了解好像現在有一部很舊的,現在有……所以只有堅實?\n\n03:15.499 --> 03:16.640\n我們也會要求相公所盡量把計畫寫好好不好謝謝您謝謝好\n\n03:42.112 --> 04:05.699\n這個是幸福巴士的問題。第二個我要談的是部落聯絡道路。部落聯絡道路使用欺燃費的部分,去年我們園民會調查了所有原住民地區的公里數,它承包的經費是3.6億的道路養護經費。結果承包上來也被我們的交通部打了5折,它只核定了1.7億。增多周少的狀況之下引起很多困擾。\n\n04:06.519 --> 04:30.128\n我們都知道部落的聯絡道路就是因為縣市政府長期以來沒有給原鄉的養護道路所以因為我的質詢我的要求所以我們才現在把氣燃費撥到原民會直接下到鄉公所來養護道路上一次院長你還記得嗎您在這邊也同意我要改善請問您交辦了嗎然後不足的經費會補足嗎院長\n\n04:33.308 --> 04:39.190\n請您快一點回答,會還是不會?今年會不會補足我們的3.6億?您上次都說要研議啊,你現在還是研議嗎?還是我明天到行政院去找您?\n\n04:57.959 --> 05:15.437\n不要浪費我的時間,院長您只要說您同意或者是您覺得可以來做精進,這樣就可以了。我是覺得可以來做精進。好,非常感謝。第三我要談到原家中心的問題。去年的6、7月我訪視了各地的原住民家福中心。\n\n05:16.078 --> 05:32.004\n也記錄了非常多原家中心長年的問題還有它的困境。後來我在委員會裡面質詢提出我們應該要把原家中心也納進衛福部的社會安全體系。在這裡我要給我們行政體系比個讚。\n\n05:33.464 --> 06:01.943\n不到半年的時間我們的政務委員也已經完成跨部會的政策協調了。所以呢也同意把原價中心在114年度納到社安網。今年的下半年就會舉辦衛福部跟園民會的共識營。院長114年度原住民家福中心轉型計畫只差最後一路就可以上路了。就是要報請行政院長您核准。在這裡請問您同意嗎?您核准了嗎?\n\n06:04.061 --> 06:30.442\n這個案子目前的話正在衛福部這邊要修正那個事案的計畫衛福部什麼時候修正好然後讓我們院長他在離開這個看守內閣之後可以來核准應該可以在520之前520你不要52019最後一天給院長不會不會謝謝所以院長你也同意對不對請他們報上來你就可以核准衛福部簽上來他們也會跟我\n\n06:31.583 --> 06:57.341\n請問福布是不是可以在20天內提出來讓我們的院長來核准?跟委員報告這是整個社安網的第二層機器還要全部要修納。你們只是把這個計畫送到行政院而已嗎?好不好?不要浪費我的時間。可以嗎?20天之內。這是全國性的計畫,他把它放在裡面。我知道,那多久的時間要給院長核准?他說導演你在519以前啊。\n\n06:58.626 --> 07:05.230\n繼續我要談到的是禁法補償上次總質詢的時候我也提到具有原住民轉息正義精神的禁法補償條例我提到平地休耕的補助一公頃是五萬塊然後原住民的禁法補償一公頃只有三萬塊非常的不公平\n\n07:27.784 --> 07:51.872\n當時你也說可以研議我當然知道這是涉及到修法在你看守內閣的期間是由行政院提出版本可能來不及了但是我是立法委員我會提出修法的版本然後我算過如果修法院長您同意的話我們以今年的面積來計算的話我們修法每一年可以增加13.6億院長你是不是樂觀其成\n\n07:53.468 --> 08:09.242\n這個修法如果通過的話那當然我們就將來處理。好,非常謝謝院長。以上我提到的都是一些原住民族的問題。謝謝你在這邊有非常好的互動而且非常好的回答。繼續我要跟你談到食安的問題了。\n\n08:11.240 --> 08:34.640\n我看了您的施安報告,院長您總是以一句科學頂住了所有的詢答。我也看了非常多的資料。今天我就以我自己個人的常識認知來闡述我對施安政策的看法。那在這邊我也要請院長,我希望我能夠完整的講完我的一段話之後呢,我都會留時間讓您回答。我們當中不要這樣針鋒相對,好不好?\n\n08:37.122 --> 09:02.981\n去年5月發生好事多日本綜合美國事件,造成了全民恐慌。檢驗出含有禁用農藥弗尼安0.1ppm,必須要全部銷毀。而我們的食藥署也暫停了好事多美國輸入一個月的時間。結果,過了8個月左右,我們的食藥署在今年的1月24日公告修正了農藥殘留容許量的標準。\n\n09:04.702 --> 09:23.381\n竟用農藥福尼安從零減出放寬到0.7ppm同樣是日本美國8個月之前會傷害我們人民的健康不可以吃藥銷毀8個月之後就變成不會傷害人體健康可以放心吃\n\n09:24.022 --> 09:43.019\n我本來以為食藥署是經過8個月的科學驗證日本美國只要不超過0.7ppm的弗尼安就對我們的健康無害可是呢我在查資料之後我發現禁用農藥弗尼安從0.出範寬為0.7ppm並不是科學驗證是政治放水\n\n09:49.324 --> 10:14.594\n因為日本交流協會提出申請,要求禁用農藥弗尼安,從零減出範寬為0.7ppm。然而我們的食藥署也順著日本的壓力開放了食品安全科學驗證在這個例子裡面我們可以看到放兩邊政治正確擺中間,國民健康就這樣被霸凌了。請問一下院長您的看法。\n\n10:15.438 --> 10:29.566\n我想這一個東西是按照那個Codex的標準,這國際的標準來訂定的。好,我理解。為什麼8個月之前是危害人體,不可以。為什麼8個月之後,那國際標準完全沒有改變啊?\n\n10:33.741 --> 10:54.256\n好了,我可以接受您的說法。院長我們在這裡,我接受您的說法,但是我也會提出非常多的驗證在我們今天總質詢裡面會提出來。好,我們再來看一下。在這次八年實案問題總檢討專案報告裡面,您下的結論是,過去的八年雖然遭遇許多的挑戰,\n\n10:55.137 --> 11:13.346\n然而蔡政府有效強化食安管理體系重建國人以及全世界對臺灣食安的信賴而食安的維護以及持續提升是朝野共同的目標也需要全民共同攜手來努力讓我們彼此勉勵這是您說的\n\n11:14.767 --> 11:30.059\n但是蔡政府的食安管理真的有重建國人還有全世界對臺灣食安的信賴嗎?有守護我國的食品安全嗎?我們來看看近年修正的農藥殘留容許量的標準的內容。\n\n11:31.340 --> 11:57.418\n因為美國在臺協會他申請我們的葡萄的農藥殘留容量從0.3ppm放寬到0.5ppm而歐盟的標準是0.3ppm然後也因為日本交流協會的申請我們的甘馬甘菊我們的農藥殘留容許量從0減出放寬到0.3ppm而歐盟的標準是0.1ppm美國\n\n11:59.861 --> 12:27.211\n和澳洲是零減粗也因為日本交流協會的申請我們的葡萄的農藥殘留容許量從零減粗放寬到1.5ppm美國是0.25ppm歐盟是0.3ppm香瓜香瓜的農藥殘留容許量從零減粗放寬到0.07ppm而澳洲的標準是零減粗\n\n12:28.431 --> 12:38.098\n草莓的農藥產取容許量從零減除放寬到0.3ppm澳洲的標準是零減除\n\n12:39.079 --> 12:57.277\n更因為日本交流協會他的申請他的紫蘇花穗的農藥殘留容許量從零減出放寬到10.0ppm而美國、歐盟、澳洲最多的容許量只有0.02ppm。\n\n12:59.599 --> 13:10.906\n蘋果的農藥殘留容許量從0減出放寬到3.0ppm,而國際上僅僅只有日本比這個標準還高。茶的農業殘留容量是從0減出放寬到10.0ppm,然而國際上也只有日本是超過這個標準。\n\n13:25.575 --> 13:48.202\n在談葡萄,葡萄的農藥殘留容許量從零減出放寬到1.0ppm,也很湊巧的,國際上也只有日本超過這個標準。為什麼我們都要奪後日本?進口食品的農藥殘留容許量,我認為早已經被政治改到混亂無比。同樣是\n\n13:49.602 --> 14:06.106\n葡萄,美國葡萄的農藥殘留容許量是從0.3ppm放寬到0.5ppm而日本近來我們的葡萄是農藥的殘留容許量從0減出放寬到1.0ppm\n\n14:08.467 --> 14:37.537\n同樣是葡萄啊為什麼從美國進口跟美國進口我們放寬的PPM的標準也不一樣這到底是什麼樣的食安管理標準即便我剛剛提了那麼多的例子所謂就依照院長您說的依照國際慣例的標準我們為什麼一定要選擇比較差的標準去依循而國人的安全科學到底是政治還是什麼\n\n14:40.163 --> 14:48.262\n跟委員報告剛剛委員講的這一些你都用一個叫做農藥容許標準我知道但是它是不同的農藥\n\n14:49.545 --> 15:06.163\n所以會有領是因為國內沒有過去沒有票。不好意思,我剛剛也提到了,不僅僅是這些我們放寬的容許量,美國或者是澳洲或者是其他國家都不一樣,我們為什麼選擇都是比較差的呢?之所以不一樣是因為不同的農藥,不同種類的農藥。\n\n15:09.286 --> 15:23.437\n那我們國內如果原先沒有用我們就是零檢出但是當他來申請的時候我們就會去設計說這一個國際的標準到底是什麼樣子然後經由我們國內的這一個專家的\n\n15:25.739 --> 15:52.097\n委員會來做最後的確認。那目前...為什麼我們國內的專家要確認這個的時候不選擇總是比較低的這個農藥允許票呢?當然會去選擇嘛,當然會去選擇嘛。我剛剛提了那麼多的這些案例。但是那些委員在講的是...好啦部長你不要在這邊,您可以有您的回答,國人都在聽,也請你尊重我們會議班提的所有的問題好不好?\n\n15:52.557 --> 15:56.179\n我們再來看看蔡政府執政8年,20次修正了農藥殘留容許標準,共修正放寬了312項的農藥殘留容許標準。\n\n16:16.693 --> 16:33.403\n然後有113種是免定容許容量。然後另外8年我們總共9次修正了動物用藥殘留標準。總共修正放官了147項的用藥殘留量。有23項是免定殘留容許量。\n\n16:38.466 --> 16:52.697\n美國萊克多巴胺豬肉就是從零減出修訂為容許10ppb開放進口。我覺得可笑的是我們的台灣豬農還是禁用萊克多巴胺。\n\n16:53.678 --> 17:20.425\n一個科學有兩種標準這些有哪一項是根據科學驗證而修正的然後這幾百項修正有很多是因為美國在台協會還有日本交流協會他們提出申請而修正我認為禁藥不再是禁藥容許殘留標準大幅放寬我認為蔡政府的食安五環早已經\n\n17:20.865 --> 17:40.779\n被所謂的政治飛鏢射到千瘡百孔當然這不是您就任一年您要負的責任但是在您高舉科學護食安我認為豈不是堂吉科德嗎您可以回答謝謝\n\n17:41.860 --> 18:05.739\n我想剛才已經講的很清楚實際上全世界各個國家在訂定這一個農藥殘餘容許量或者動物殘餘量都有許時進進而且不同的國家用的農藥的種類不一樣當我們國家訂了某一個剛才講過的某一個產品沒有用這個農藥的時候我們當然是訂零可是當有這個農藥的時候我們就會改變這就是科學我剛剛提的這麼多你先休息的聽我一下\n\n18:11.403 --> 18:37.524\n我剛剛提了這麼多的案例是我們去查的葡萄也好柑橘也好也是根據國境的規定所以國境的規定裡面我們開放但是其他的國家他們也有很低的標準那麼按照您說的按照國際上的標準我們為什麼不選擇所謂的農藥殘留量是最低的\n\n18:37.964 --> 18:39.605\n我可以回答嗎?好,可以,謝謝。你講得太好了。\n\n18:56.218 --> 19:16.304\n世界上要定一個容許量的時候就有一個國際的標準叫做Codex。這個Codex的標準出來以後呢,它會按照這一個國家的人民的攝取量是多少,來定定這一個標準是多少。我舉一個很簡單的例子。不用再舉例子了,謝謝院長,你就簡單的說。黃曲獨樹就是一個例子。\n\n19:16.724 --> 19:40.046\n如果黃菊毒素在美國它定的標準很高可是台灣因為有B型肝炎代言的人很多吸肝的人也很多所以我們的黃菊毒素的量就相對於其他國家要來的低很多這是因為我們要考慮你講這個案例太好我就是憋肝的代言者那我的意思是說為什麼不選擇標準差的而是根據不同的要求報告\n\n19:41.807 --> 19:42.167\n謝謝,您已經回答了齁。\n\n20:03.988 --> 20:28.733\n您講那麼多我再提醒您一下為什麼日本的指數花費農藥的殘留容許量我們不參考美國、歐盟、澳洲的0.02而要參考日本的10.0ppm呢?500倍耶!是美國他們比較金枝玉葉還是我們國人比較像鋼鐵人我們的身體可以承受500倍的農藥可以嗎?可以這樣子嗎?\n\n20:29.893 --> 20:33.980\n我就跟你講這個跟設施量是有關係。所以\n\n20:35.026 --> 21:03.772\n如果你完全不要講科學你就只講一個標準那全世界不同國家的標準我提的我提的也是其他國家的標準你挑一個最低的標準來看這是不公平的啦我提的也是其他國家的標準我只是覺得美國跟歐盟跟澳洲他們是0.02為什麼我們就要採取日本的好不好所以呢我常常百思不得其解為什麼我們用基本的常識認知就知道是錯誤的政策\n\n21:04.292 --> 21:24.190\n我們的政府總是要拒絕檢討修正,然後一路的修捍衛到底,我們真的不知道為什麼。例如,錯誤的防疫政策我們花了8400億,結果口罩幫、疫苗幫、快篩幫一路橫行。錯誤的非核家園的能源政策我們投入了幾個兆。\n\n21:25.311 --> 21:25.331\n委員長．\n\n21:53.795 --> 22:17.518\n我以前總是苦口婆心的希望我們的政府能夠來修正一下你們的錯誤政策現在我真的恍然大悟了這個恍然大悟是什麼或許我們的民進黨你們的執政團隊需要我們這些所謂剛剛提到的這些利益幫派所以你們硬要推這些錯誤的政策\n\n22:18.479 --> 22:24.967\n這我完全不同意。而且你講的這些都是錯的啦。民間都知道有這麼多的幫派出現,而大家也都清楚知道我們政府的能源政策是錯誤的。\n\n22:37.122 --> 23:04.804\n好,你認為我貼標籤,我們讓全國人民來聽。我們就提,我剛剛提到了,能源政策是錯誤的能源政策。現在不管是所有的全民正在接受到缺電的這樣的困擾,我們的電費也越來越高,然後我們的空污也越來越多。缺電是馬英九時代有缺電,現在沒有缺電,而且我們現在的備載量都是夠的。\n\n23:06.465 --> 23:32.804\n所以沒有缺電,所以你剛才講的不是正確的事實。那你不能用不正確的事實來貼標籤。對不起,院長我要打斷您,您不能夠說我剛剛提的數據是不正確的。我希望,我告訴你,我提的每一個政策所有的數據都是經過我們非常嚴謹的找出資料。請問什麼時候缺電?\n\n23:33.644 --> 23:59.295\n你說數據那我問你缺電的數據你去問問看全民有沒有突然就缺電然後就告訴我是老鼠告訴我是飛鼠你去看看你去問問看原住民的地區我們都清楚知道是因為缺電所以你們才會把這些電然後無緣無故的去斷電然後提升\n\n24:00.575 --> 24:13.958\n這個都是公開透明的資料,不是缺電。您不能夠說我的訊息是錯的,這個時候我不接受。這個訊息我不接受,對不起,院長。我們不需要在這邊用不明快的回答跟答詢來做。我們不可以在這邊再做這樣的訊息回答,好不好?\n\n24:27.520 --> 24:46.564\n那個...高經緯很辛苦了,謝謝,那個...正好時間到了,不然我要呼籲一下大家。好的,好,謝謝,謝謝韓院長。我這邊還是要重申齁,我真的不接受院長說我的敘事是錯誤的,謝謝。時間先暫停一下,容許我...高經緯,還有7分鐘,您還有7分鐘。\n\n24:49.130 --> 24:50.290\n謝謝高金委員的質詢。謝謝陳院長的備詢。\n\n25:20.287 --> 25:24.239\n報告院會上午質詢到此為止。\n\n","segments":[{"start":9.724,"end":14.628,"text":"謝謝韓院長。我們現在有請陳院長。麻煩再請陳院長備詢。院長您好。看守內閣還有兩個半月。您真是老計福利啊。辛苦了。然後呢這兩個半月雖然是看守內閣,其實呢您也可以做非常多福國利民的事情。"},{"start":34.383,"end":54.318,"text":"我來講一個積極正向的例子來給您聽在2016年的2月1號馬英九他提名張善政當任行政院長他作為政黨輪替的看守內閣總共109天在這109天因為張善政院長他的積極作為因此對我們園鄉有了非常多重大的改變"},{"start":55.656,"end":80.515,"text":"當時我對剛上任的張院長提出了我的總諮詢。我跟他提出原鄉危險的路段受限於國土富裕計畫沒有辦法進行改善。為什麼不把原鄉危險的路段還有我們的橋樑也納入可以拓寬可以新闢道路的生活圈道路交通系統建設系統。張院長他當時答覆我是說可以研議。"},{"start":81.796,"end":108.716,"text":"執行後的隔天我就帶著所有的資料到行政院裡面找張院長討論張院長他很快的也找來他的幕僚我們來研究結論是修改計劃並且只要由院長來合格就可以了張院長他就立刻指示一個月之內要完成這八年下來我們用生活圈道路經費改善了非常多園鄉危險的道路還有"},{"start":109.241,"end":109.501,"text":"﹚高金素梅"},{"start":125.382,"end":148.238,"text":"院長你看一個月這樣積極的作為所謂的看守內閣他可以做明快的決策會帶來一連串非常好的結果而且一直持續到未來我講這個案例是希望你也能夠有積極的作為可以嗎好謝謝我先跟你談幾個原住民的問題第一個我談的是幸福巴士這裡10月份的時候你還記得嗎"},{"start":149.719,"end":172.926,"text":"您提到要改善偏鄉的交通的幸福巴士。您還去過尖石鄉。當時您跟我說有很多需要精進的地方,比如說老舊的車輛需要更新。請問一下院長,現在你們怎麼精進?原鄉地區你們到底更換了多少我們的幸福巴士?這個幸福巴士的這個部分我請交通部長來做一個回應。"},{"start":174.876,"end":194.358,"text":"暫停一下,部長請您可以很從容的上臺,好,請您回答,謝謝。在過去的確這個幸福巴士的部分……不用說太多,你要怎麼經濟,然後你換了多少量?現在那個堅實的部分,他們我了解好像現在有一部很舊的,現在有……所以只有堅實?"},{"start":195.499,"end":196.64,"text":"我們也會要求相公所盡量把計畫寫好好不好謝謝您謝謝好"},{"start":222.112,"end":245.699,"text":"這個是幸福巴士的問題。第二個我要談的是部落聯絡道路。部落聯絡道路使用欺燃費的部分,去年我們園民會調查了所有原住民地區的公里數,它承包的經費是3.6億的道路養護經費。結果承包上來也被我們的交通部打了5折,它只核定了1.7億。增多周少的狀況之下引起很多困擾。"},{"start":246.519,"end":270.128,"text":"我們都知道部落的聯絡道路就是因為縣市政府長期以來沒有給原鄉的養護道路所以因為我的質詢我的要求所以我們才現在把氣燃費撥到原民會直接下到鄉公所來養護道路上一次院長你還記得嗎您在這邊也同意我要改善請問您交辦了嗎然後不足的經費會補足嗎院長"},{"start":273.308,"end":279.19,"text":"請您快一點回答,會還是不會?今年會不會補足我們的3.6億?您上次都說要研議啊,你現在還是研議嗎?還是我明天到行政院去找您?"},{"start":297.959,"end":315.437,"text":"不要浪費我的時間,院長您只要說您同意或者是您覺得可以來做精進,這樣就可以了。我是覺得可以來做精進。好,非常感謝。第三我要談到原家中心的問題。去年的6、7月我訪視了各地的原住民家福中心。"},{"start":316.078,"end":332.004,"text":"也記錄了非常多原家中心長年的問題還有它的困境。後來我在委員會裡面質詢提出我們應該要把原家中心也納進衛福部的社會安全體系。在這裡我要給我們行政體系比個讚。"},{"start":333.464,"end":361.943,"text":"不到半年的時間我們的政務委員也已經完成跨部會的政策協調了。所以呢也同意把原價中心在114年度納到社安網。今年的下半年就會舉辦衛福部跟園民會的共識營。院長114年度原住民家福中心轉型計畫只差最後一路就可以上路了。就是要報請行政院長您核准。在這裡請問您同意嗎?您核准了嗎?"},{"start":364.061,"end":390.442,"text":"這個案子目前的話正在衛福部這邊要修正那個事案的計畫衛福部什麼時候修正好然後讓我們院長他在離開這個看守內閣之後可以來核准應該可以在520之前520你不要52019最後一天給院長不會不會謝謝所以院長你也同意對不對請他們報上來你就可以核准衛福部簽上來他們也會跟我"},{"start":391.583,"end":417.341,"text":"請問福布是不是可以在20天內提出來讓我們的院長來核准?跟委員報告這是整個社安網的第二層機器還要全部要修納。你們只是把這個計畫送到行政院而已嗎?好不好?不要浪費我的時間。可以嗎?20天之內。這是全國性的計畫,他把它放在裡面。我知道,那多久的時間要給院長核准?他說導演你在519以前啊。"},{"start":418.626,"end":425.23,"text":"繼續我要談到的是禁法補償上次總質詢的時候我也提到具有原住民轉息正義精神的禁法補償條例我提到平地休耕的補助一公頃是五萬塊然後原住民的禁法補償一公頃只有三萬塊非常的不公平"},{"start":447.784,"end":471.872,"text":"當時你也說可以研議我當然知道這是涉及到修法在你看守內閣的期間是由行政院提出版本可能來不及了但是我是立法委員我會提出修法的版本然後我算過如果修法院長您同意的話我們以今年的面積來計算的話我們修法每一年可以增加13.6億院長你是不是樂觀其成"},{"start":473.468,"end":489.242,"text":"這個修法如果通過的話那當然我們就將來處理。好,非常謝謝院長。以上我提到的都是一些原住民族的問題。謝謝你在這邊有非常好的互動而且非常好的回答。繼續我要跟你談到食安的問題了。"},{"start":491.24,"end":514.64,"text":"我看了您的施安報告,院長您總是以一句科學頂住了所有的詢答。我也看了非常多的資料。今天我就以我自己個人的常識認知來闡述我對施安政策的看法。那在這邊我也要請院長,我希望我能夠完整的講完我的一段話之後呢,我都會留時間讓您回答。我們當中不要這樣針鋒相對,好不好?"},{"start":517.122,"end":542.981,"text":"去年5月發生好事多日本綜合美國事件,造成了全民恐慌。檢驗出含有禁用農藥弗尼安0.1ppm,必須要全部銷毀。而我們的食藥署也暫停了好事多美國輸入一個月的時間。結果,過了8個月左右,我們的食藥署在今年的1月24日公告修正了農藥殘留容許量的標準。"},{"start":544.702,"end":563.381,"text":"竟用農藥福尼安從零減出放寬到0.7ppm同樣是日本美國8個月之前會傷害我們人民的健康不可以吃藥銷毀8個月之後就變成不會傷害人體健康可以放心吃"},{"start":564.022,"end":583.019,"text":"我本來以為食藥署是經過8個月的科學驗證日本美國只要不超過0.7ppm的弗尼安就對我們的健康無害可是呢我在查資料之後我發現禁用農藥弗尼安從0.出範寬為0.7ppm並不是科學驗證是政治放水"},{"start":589.324,"end":614.594,"text":"因為日本交流協會提出申請,要求禁用農藥弗尼安,從零減出範寬為0.7ppm。然而我們的食藥署也順著日本的壓力開放了食品安全科學驗證在這個例子裡面我們可以看到放兩邊政治正確擺中間,國民健康就這樣被霸凌了。請問一下院長您的看法。"},{"start":615.438,"end":629.566,"text":"我想這一個東西是按照那個Codex的標準,這國際的標準來訂定的。好,我理解。為什麼8個月之前是危害人體,不可以。為什麼8個月之後,那國際標準完全沒有改變啊?"},{"start":633.741,"end":654.256,"text":"好了,我可以接受您的說法。院長我們在這裡,我接受您的說法,但是我也會提出非常多的驗證在我們今天總質詢裡面會提出來。好,我們再來看一下。在這次八年實案問題總檢討專案報告裡面,您下的結論是,過去的八年雖然遭遇許多的挑戰,"},{"start":655.137,"end":673.346,"text":"然而蔡政府有效強化食安管理體系重建國人以及全世界對臺灣食安的信賴而食安的維護以及持續提升是朝野共同的目標也需要全民共同攜手來努力讓我們彼此勉勵這是您說的"},{"start":674.767,"end":690.059,"text":"但是蔡政府的食安管理真的有重建國人還有全世界對臺灣食安的信賴嗎?有守護我國的食品安全嗎?我們來看看近年修正的農藥殘留容許量的標準的內容。"},{"start":691.34,"end":717.418,"text":"因為美國在臺協會他申請我們的葡萄的農藥殘留容量從0.3ppm放寬到0.5ppm而歐盟的標準是0.3ppm然後也因為日本交流協會的申請我們的甘馬甘菊我們的農藥殘留容許量從0減出放寬到0.3ppm而歐盟的標準是0.1ppm美國"},{"start":719.861,"end":747.211,"text":"和澳洲是零減粗也因為日本交流協會的申請我們的葡萄的農藥殘留容許量從零減粗放寬到1.5ppm美國是0.25ppm歐盟是0.3ppm香瓜香瓜的農藥殘留容許量從零減粗放寬到0.07ppm而澳洲的標準是零減粗"},{"start":748.431,"end":758.098,"text":"草莓的農藥產取容許量從零減除放寬到0.3ppm澳洲的標準是零減除"},{"start":759.079,"end":777.277,"text":"更因為日本交流協會他的申請他的紫蘇花穗的農藥殘留容許量從零減出放寬到10.0ppm而美國、歐盟、澳洲最多的容許量只有0.02ppm。"},{"start":779.599,"end":790.906,"text":"蘋果的農藥殘留容許量從0減出放寬到3.0ppm,而國際上僅僅只有日本比這個標準還高。茶的農業殘留容量是從0減出放寬到10.0ppm,然而國際上也只有日本是超過這個標準。"},{"start":805.575,"end":828.202,"text":"在談葡萄,葡萄的農藥殘留容許量從零減出放寬到1.0ppm,也很湊巧的,國際上也只有日本超過這個標準。為什麼我們都要奪後日本?進口食品的農藥殘留容許量,我認為早已經被政治改到混亂無比。同樣是"},{"start":829.602,"end":846.106,"text":"葡萄,美國葡萄的農藥殘留容許量是從0.3ppm放寬到0.5ppm而日本近來我們的葡萄是農藥的殘留容許量從0減出放寬到1.0ppm"},{"start":848.467,"end":877.537,"text":"同樣是葡萄啊為什麼從美國進口跟美國進口我們放寬的PPM的標準也不一樣這到底是什麼樣的食安管理標準即便我剛剛提了那麼多的例子所謂就依照院長您說的依照國際慣例的標準我們為什麼一定要選擇比較差的標準去依循而國人的安全科學到底是政治還是什麼"},{"start":880.163,"end":888.262,"text":"跟委員報告剛剛委員講的這一些你都用一個叫做農藥容許標準我知道但是它是不同的農藥"},{"start":889.545,"end":906.163,"text":"所以會有領是因為國內沒有過去沒有票。不好意思,我剛剛也提到了,不僅僅是這些我們放寬的容許量,美國或者是澳洲或者是其他國家都不一樣,我們為什麼選擇都是比較差的呢?之所以不一樣是因為不同的農藥,不同種類的農藥。"},{"start":909.286,"end":923.437,"text":"那我們國內如果原先沒有用我們就是零檢出但是當他來申請的時候我們就會去設計說這一個國際的標準到底是什麼樣子然後經由我們國內的這一個專家的"},{"start":925.739,"end":952.097,"text":"委員會來做最後的確認。那目前...為什麼我們國內的專家要確認這個的時候不選擇總是比較低的這個農藥允許票呢?當然會去選擇嘛,當然會去選擇嘛。我剛剛提了那麼多的這些案例。但是那些委員在講的是...好啦部長你不要在這邊,您可以有您的回答,國人都在聽,也請你尊重我們會議班提的所有的問題好不好?"},{"start":952.557,"end":956.179,"text":"我們再來看看蔡政府執政8年,20次修正了農藥殘留容許標準,共修正放寬了312項的農藥殘留容許標準。"},{"start":976.693,"end":993.403,"text":"然後有113種是免定容許容量。然後另外8年我們總共9次修正了動物用藥殘留標準。總共修正放官了147項的用藥殘留量。有23項是免定殘留容許量。"},{"start":998.466,"end":1012.697,"text":"美國萊克多巴胺豬肉就是從零減出修訂為容許10ppb開放進口。我覺得可笑的是我們的台灣豬農還是禁用萊克多巴胺。"},{"start":1013.678,"end":1040.425,"text":"一個科學有兩種標準這些有哪一項是根據科學驗證而修正的然後這幾百項修正有很多是因為美國在台協會還有日本交流協會他們提出申請而修正我認為禁藥不再是禁藥容許殘留標準大幅放寬我認為蔡政府的食安五環早已經"},{"start":1040.865,"end":1060.779,"text":"被所謂的政治飛鏢射到千瘡百孔當然這不是您就任一年您要負的責任但是在您高舉科學護食安我認為豈不是堂吉科德嗎您可以回答謝謝"},{"start":1061.86,"end":1085.739,"text":"我想剛才已經講的很清楚實際上全世界各個國家在訂定這一個農藥殘餘容許量或者動物殘餘量都有許時進進而且不同的國家用的農藥的種類不一樣當我們國家訂了某一個剛才講過的某一個產品沒有用這個農藥的時候我們當然是訂零可是當有這個農藥的時候我們就會改變這就是科學我剛剛提的這麼多你先休息的聽我一下"},{"start":1091.403,"end":1117.524,"text":"我剛剛提了這麼多的案例是我們去查的葡萄也好柑橘也好也是根據國境的規定所以國境的規定裡面我們開放但是其他的國家他們也有很低的標準那麼按照您說的按照國際上的標準我們為什麼不選擇所謂的農藥殘留量是最低的"},{"start":1117.964,"end":1119.605,"text":"我可以回答嗎?好,可以,謝謝。你講得太好了。"},{"start":1136.218,"end":1156.304,"text":"世界上要定一個容許量的時候就有一個國際的標準叫做Codex。這個Codex的標準出來以後呢,它會按照這一個國家的人民的攝取量是多少,來定定這一個標準是多少。我舉一個很簡單的例子。不用再舉例子了,謝謝院長,你就簡單的說。黃曲獨樹就是一個例子。"},{"start":1156.724,"end":1180.046,"text":"如果黃菊毒素在美國它定的標準很高可是台灣因為有B型肝炎代言的人很多吸肝的人也很多所以我們的黃菊毒素的量就相對於其他國家要來的低很多這是因為我們要考慮你講這個案例太好我就是憋肝的代言者那我的意思是說為什麼不選擇標準差的而是根據不同的要求報告"},{"start":1181.807,"end":1182.167,"text":"謝謝,您已經回答了齁。"},{"start":1203.988,"end":1228.733,"text":"您講那麼多我再提醒您一下為什麼日本的指數花費農藥的殘留容許量我們不參考美國、歐盟、澳洲的0.02而要參考日本的10.0 ppm呢?500倍耶!是美國他們比較金枝玉葉還是我們國人比較像鋼鐵人我們的身體可以承受500倍的農藥可以嗎?可以這樣子嗎?"},{"start":1229.893,"end":1233.98,"text":"我就跟你講這個跟設施量是有關係。所以"},{"start":1235.026,"end":1263.772,"text":"如果你完全不要講科學你就只講一個標準那全世界不同國家的標準我提的我提的也是其他國家的標準你挑一個最低的標準來看這是不公平的啦我提的也是其他國家的標準我只是覺得美國跟歐盟跟澳洲他們是0.02為什麼我們就要採取日本的好不好所以呢我常常百思不得其解為什麼我們用基本的常識認知就知道是錯誤的政策"},{"start":1264.292,"end":1284.19,"text":"我們的政府總是要拒絕檢討修正,然後一路的修捍衛到底,我們真的不知道為什麼。例如,錯誤的防疫政策我們花了8400億,結果口罩幫、疫苗幫、快篩幫一路橫行。錯誤的非核家園的能源政策我們投入了幾個兆。"},{"start":1285.311,"end":1285.331,"text":"委員長．"},{"start":1313.795,"end":1337.518,"text":"我以前總是苦口婆心的希望我們的政府能夠來修正一下你們的錯誤政策現在我真的恍然大悟了這個恍然大悟是什麼或許我們的民進黨你們的執政團隊需要我們這些所謂剛剛提到的這些利益幫派所以你們硬要推這些錯誤的政策"},{"start":1338.479,"end":1344.967,"text":"這我完全不同意。而且你講的這些都是錯的啦。民間都知道有這麼多的幫派出現,而大家也都清楚知道我們政府的能源政策是錯誤的。"},{"start":1357.122,"end":1384.804,"text":"好,你認為我貼標籤,我們讓全國人民來聽。我們就提,我剛剛提到了,能源政策是錯誤的能源政策。現在不管是所有的全民正在接受到缺電的這樣的困擾,我們的電費也越來越高,然後我們的空污也越來越多。缺電是馬英九時代有缺電,現在沒有缺電,而且我們現在的備載量都是夠的。"},{"start":1386.465,"end":1412.804,"text":"所以沒有缺電,所以你剛才講的不是正確的事實。那你不能用不正確的事實來貼標籤。對不起,院長我要打斷您,您不能夠說我剛剛提的數據是不正確的。我希望,我告訴你,我提的每一個政策所有的數據都是經過我們非常嚴謹的找出資料。請問什麼時候缺電?"},{"start":1413.644,"end":1439.295,"text":"你說數據那我問你缺電的數據你去問問看全民有沒有突然就缺電然後就告訴我是老鼠告訴我是飛鼠你去看看你去問問看原住民的地區我們都清楚知道是因為缺電所以你們才會把這些電然後無緣無故的去斷電然後提升"},{"start":1440.575,"end":1453.958,"text":"這個都是公開透明的資料,不是缺電。您不能夠說我的訊息是錯的,這個時候我不接受。這個訊息我不接受,對不起,院長。我們不需要在這邊用不明快的回答跟答詢來做。我們不可以在這邊再做這樣的訊息回答,好不好?"},{"start":1467.52,"end":1486.564,"text":"那個...高經緯很辛苦了,謝謝,那個...正好時間到了,不然我要呼籲一下大家。好的,好,謝謝,謝謝韓院長。我這邊還是要重申齁,我真的不接受院長說我的敘事是錯誤的,謝謝。時間先暫停一下,容許我...高經緯,還有7分鐘,您還有7分鐘。"},{"start":1489.13,"end":1490.29,"text":"謝謝高金委員的質詢。謝謝陳院長的備詢。"},{"start":1520.287,"end":1524.239,"text":"報告院會上午質詢到此為止。"}]}}}}