{"id":149321,"url":"https://ivod.ly.gov.tw/Play/Clip/1M/149321","video_url":"https://ivod-lyvod.cdn.hinet.net/vod_1/_definst_/mp4:1MClips/d6f3e02e0bf46d5e3989f663ca0f373b886681d5001d2e43f8ba9b0039caa7a6b11edd5d93528f7f5ea18f28b6918d91.mp4/playlist.m3u8","委員名稱":"許宇甄","委員發言時間":"15:27:29 - 15:58:05","影片長度":"00:30:36","會議時間":"2024-03-05T09:00:00+08:00","會議名稱":"第11屆第1會期第3次會議（事由：一、對行政院院長提出施政方針及施政報告繼續質詢。\n 二、3月1日上午9時至10時為國是論壇時間。\n 三、3月5日下午1時50分至2時30分為處理臨時提案時間。）","meet":{"tmpMeeting":null,"title":"立法院第11屆第1會期第3次會議","id":"院會-11-1-3","type":"院會","term":11,"sessionPeriod":1,"sessionTimes":3},"date":"2024-03-05","duration":1836,"end_time":"2024-03-05T15:58:05+08:00","start_time":"2024-03-05T15:27:29+08:00","features":["ai-transcript","gazette"],"type":"Clip","gazette":{"lineno":229,"blocks":[["許委員宇甄：（15時27分）主席，請院長，謝謝。"],["主席：麻煩再請陳院長備詢。"],["陳院長建仁：許委員午安，恭喜你當選立委。"],["許委員宇甄：謝謝院長。","院長，您自詡為是溫暖的內閣，這個是我在競選時候的 slogan，叫做溫暖堅毅！所以說我也期許自己擔任立法委員之後要提出一些福國利民的法案，讓人民覺得溫暖。"],["陳院長建仁：太好了。"],["許委員宇甄：所以接下來我所要探討幾個議題如果能夠得到院長支持的話，相信一定也能夠讓人民覺得溫暖，所以院長能不能夠支持我呢？"],["陳院長建仁：好，當然，我來聽聽看你的寶貴意見。"],["許委員宇甄：好，謝謝院長。"],["陳院長建仁：也希望我們都能夠是一個讓人民感到溫暖跟堅毅的人。"],["許委員宇甄：謝謝院長。有關剛剛李委員特別質詢管主委，還有提到請陳院長說明有關金門翻船案撞船事件的執法過程跟釐清目前處理的狀況，我聽到院長講到該道歉的就道歉，我覺得這個是讓我覺得非常地欣慰，因為我們不管怎麼樣的一個執法過程，只要有錯誤就勇於承認。","我想昨天在我們內政委員會，就是因為針對這個金門的翻船案沒有影像，然後沒有辦法說明真相，所以說大家各說各話。雖然昨天一度有傳出周美伍署長說有影像，已經交給檢調了，當然，雖然事後說是雷達影像，但是我想在這過程中，其實我們昨天爭議的點不是在我們對海巡署有意見，我們非常支持海巡署的執法，我們有意見的是管主委不該擅改我們專報的題目，針對我們金門的翻船案，昨天開這個專報就是為了讓海巡署、讓海委會來釐清真相，讓他們有一個說明的機會。結果因為昨天管主委不肯道歉，浪費了前面30分鐘的時間。所以我覺得管主委如果能夠像院長一樣，該道歉就道歉，我相信這個事件就不會這麼……"],["陳院長建仁：道歉應該要有根據，像我剛才講的，司法偵查完了，我們按照這樣的方式來做……"],["許委員宇甄：我想這個部分……"],["管主任委員碧玲：跟委員報告……"],["許委員宇甄：管主委，這個部分不用您回答。謝謝。"],["管主任委員碧玲：溝通的過程也有道歉的版本。"],["許委員宇甄：主席，我並沒有請管主委。"],["管主任委員碧玲：我們有拿符合我國法制的道歉版本來溝通。"],["許委員宇甄：我是不是可以開始今天的問題，好嗎？"],["主席：管主委，麻煩，謝謝。"],["許委員宇甄：請問院長，您知道TPASS通勤月票的政策嗎？您知道嗎？"],["陳院長建仁：抱歉……"],["許委員宇甄：您看一下我的簡報。"],["陳院長建仁：我當然知道。"],["許委員宇甄：針對TPASS通勤月票的政策，我想請教一下，為什麼一開始只有雙北在做這樣的政策？"],["陳院長建仁：我不清楚當時雙北為什麼會做這樣的政策，但是在2022年選舉的時候，我們北北基桃的候選人都有提出TPASS的想法，由四個城市一起共用大眾運輸。"],["許委員宇甄：我來告訴院長，當時是在2018年，新北市政府的朱立倫市長跟臺北市政府的柯文哲市長，為了鼓勵民眾多多利用大眾運輸系統，共同提出運輸定期票每月1,280的政策，每年需要補貼九億四千多萬給相關的業者。誠如剛剛院長講的，在2022年的九合一選舉，不管是國民黨、民進黨、民眾黨的候選人都有提出北北基桃聯合1,280月票的問題，是跨縣市交通月票的共同政見，每年需要的經費大概是35億。當時行政院承諾會立即辦理，由中央補助地方政府，落實交通平權這樣的概念，2023年7月1號也擴大到全國施行，這可以在我的簡報檔上看到，目前11個區域有通勤月票，而且由行政院全面補貼，解決一國兩個制度的問題。本席要給院長鼓勵，確實這是很好的交通平權政策。院長您知道通勤月票的政策只能夠做幾年嗎？"],["陳院長建仁：目前我們的預算是編到114年，但是很多民眾都覺得這是一個很好的政策，除了能夠使民眾交通上方便，又可能可以節能減碳，而且可以減少空氣污染，所以中央政府在計畫快結束的時候，一定會再考慮未來怎麼樣延長，順應民意。"],["許委員宇甄：跟院長報告，預算目前編列3年，1年大概需要六十幾億，所以3年大概需要200億。既然是為了落實交通平權，也是一個好的政策，所以請院長能夠繼續支持這個計畫的進行。","接下來要請教院長……"],["陳院長建仁：這個計畫還滿成功的，現在有3.65億人次搭乘。"],["許委員宇甄：謝謝，好的計畫我們就繼續讓它執行。另外，剛剛是講交通平權，現在我要請教院長，您贊不贊成、支不支持大陸籍配偶跟外籍配偶的年限一樣是4年的時間，來落實人權平權？"],["陳院長建仁：大陸配偶取得身分證跟其他國家配偶取得身分證的方式確實目前不一樣，不一樣的情況下，如果按照各項目來看，大陸配偶享受到的福利比外籍配偶要來得多。因為兩地的政治、經濟、文化還有法律背景不太一樣，所以我們才會按照臺灣的法律來訂定大陸配偶居留多少年數可以取得，目前是6年。"],["許委員宇甄：請教院長，剛剛提到因為兩岸的經濟、背景各有不同……"],["陳院長建仁：政治、法律……"],["許委員宇甄：請問一下，現行是6年就沒有這個問題嗎？為什麼改成4年就會有這個問題？感覺上這個就是邏輯不通。"],["陳院長建仁：不，陸委會主委比較清楚全部的來龍去脈。"],["邱主任委員太三：我想委員大概都知道，憲法增修條文裡面就特別做了這樣的規定，也就是說，大陸人士既不是本國人、也不是外國人，所以也因為這樣的定位之下，兩岸條例的相關規定就會有很多不同。這裡面包括過去大法官……我跟委員提一下，過去大法官也做過這樣的一個……"],["許委員宇甄：這部分我想其實就是入籍平權跟人權的問題，我覺得不該存在的歧視。"],["邱主任委員太三：對，就是人權的問題，所以剛剛院長提到……"],["許委員宇甄：所以我覺得這個部分的話，我接下來繼續有一些問題……"],["邱主任委員太三：我們對陸配的其他權利，完全不一樣。"],["許委員宇甄：主委，待會有相關的問題再請您回答。","我再請教一下院長，請問院長，你有沒有看過2020年6月出版的公民與政治權利國際公約的執行情形？簽約國根據這個公約的第40條提交的第三次國家報告，請院長看一下，在第61頁的第239點提到大陸配偶來臺取得身分證年限調整為外籍配偶一致，以凝聚臺灣地區與大陸人民關係條例第十七條的修正草案，尚待立法院完成立法程序，請問院長，行政院修法的版本在哪裡？"],["陳院長建仁：好，行政院沒有修法的版本，這是我們請國際學者來評估我們的執行情形，然後他也聽了國內專家還有人民的意見以後所提的，這是一個建議。實際上在這個建議的過程當中，他們並不瞭解我們兩岸條例修正的時候，實際上對於陸配及他的家屬的人權保障非常完整。"],["許委員宇甄：院長，這個報告是我們提供的吧？這個國家報告是我們提供嘛。"],["陳院長建仁：對，但是……"],["許委員宇甄：如果沒有這個版本的話，這樣寫是不是在欺騙國際社會？"],["陳院長建仁：不是、不是，這個是建議啊！"],["許委員宇甄：沒關係，院長，因為我剛好也有提出了有關兩岸關係條例第十七條的修正草案，所以我可以來幫院長完成國家報告的這個政策。","院長，現在再請教您，現行大陸配偶來臺制度已經超過14年了，但大陸配偶取得身分證的年限卻比外籍配偶來得長，依據我國的移民政策，我們是多元、包容、尊重人權及合理地保障移入人口的權益，我想基於憲法的平等原則，大陸配偶取得身分證的年限4年可以進一步地保障合法的兩岸婚姻、大陸配偶來臺的權益，也可以實現兩公約人權的保障措施，落實我國人口跟移民政策。所以本席在此再請教院長，請問院長，調降大陸配偶取得身分證的年限會不會增加健保的支出？"],["陳院長建仁：在這部分，我想要看一些條件，但是你剛才唸的那一段，我想要再跟委員做一個報告，實際上外籍配偶進來以後還要放棄國籍等等，所以他所等待的時間不是我們想像的，如果你平均地來看的話，實際上我們對陸配的保障反而是比外配還要來得多。"],["許委員宇甄：我跟院長說明，其實我們現在外籍配偶取得身分證的比例大概是67%左右，可是陸籍配偶取得身分證的比例只有三十幾趴，所以說其實外籍配偶取得身分證的比例反而更高。"],["陳院長建仁：那是因為他們有一些人不願意來這裡取得……"],["許委員宇甄：為什麼跟你提到這個？為什麼問有沒有增加健保支出的問題？請你看一下我的簡報檔，其實並不會增加健保的支出，為什麼呢？因為目前根據定居的定義，在第三條，您可以看一下，臺灣地區人民的直系血親跟配偶必須年滿70歲，而且一年僅有60個名額，如果本席所提的兩岸關係條例第十七條能夠完成修法的話，可申請來臺定居的名額不會增加，所以也不會增加健保的負擔。所以本席要跟院長強調，不論配偶來自何地，他們都是我們臺灣人的媽媽、臺灣人的媳婦，在這個跨國婚姻當中，他們面對的挑戰跟面對的生活各項背景，其實不會因為來自哪裡而有所不同，所以我們還是希望不要有雙重標準，能夠有一致的標準。"],["陳院長建仁：我們是不是讓對健保比較熟悉的衛福部部長來說明？"],["薛部長瑞元：報告委員，如果說修法，是不是要把60人也修進去？"],["許委員宇甄：沒有，我的修法沒有要改，所以我們不會增加健保的支出。"],["薛部長瑞元：沒有、沒有，我是說配套措施就把60人也修進去，變成法律。"],["許委員宇甄：不好意思，要不然部長來當立委好了，你來提出修法好了。"],["薛部長瑞元：沒有、沒有，我的建議是這個樣子。"],["邱主任委員太三：第二個，我跟委員補充，陸配大概有三分之一……我們現在陸配大概將近36萬，但是有12萬人其實是不在臺灣的。"],["陳院長建仁：對。"],["邱主任委員太三：因為他們就是臺商的……"],["許委員宇甄：剛剛本席問的是……"],["邱主任委員太三：所以你剛剛那個數字比例是錯誤的。"],["許委員宇甄：剛剛本席問的是指健保會不會增加支出……"],["邱主任委員太三：我已經補充前面的……"],["許委員宇甄：那剛剛有提到了，因為來臺定居的這個人數並不會增加，根本不會增加健保支出，所以這樣子的一個論調引起人民的恐慌，我覺得這樣是很不適當的。","當然現在的老人健保，我要再請教的是有關老人健保費的補助，因為現行老人健保的補助各縣市不一致，70歲以上中低收入老人的健保費是由衛福部全額補助，65歲到69歲中低收入戶的老人健保費則是依各縣市的狀況自行編列經費；有些縣市是不排富，或者是排富給予補助。請問院長，您看到我們現在各縣市健保補助經費的這個表格，您有什麼感想？"],["陳院長建仁：我想健保很重要的一件事情，它也是要永續，在永續的時候它如果有一貫制度的話會比較好，而且也要注意到這一個世代的正義，因為現在每一個人的平均壽命都在延長，很多人的壽命都在延長，在這樣的情況下，如果我們就對某一個高齡的人給他減少的時候，實際上年輕人的負擔也是很重，所有保險都會有這樣的現象……"],["許委員宇甄：院長，本席提到的是平權，就是我在別的縣市可以享受到這個老人健保……"],["陳院長建仁：這就是平權，這是老少的平權。"],["許委員宇甄：但是比如現在很多縣市，包括6都有老人健保的補助，像我之前在雲林縣，我在雲林縣卻因為財政的關係而沒有辦法，為什麼同卡不同命？為什麼不能全國一致？您剛剛說的……"],["陳院長建仁：這是地方政府……"],["許委員宇甄：那個論點跟這件事情我想是沒有關係。我要指的是，既然同樣都為65歲以上的老人，有些縣市是可以健保費不必給付，有些縣市卻必須要自己給付，這個部分就違反憲法平權的一個概念，所以今天本席其實提到的都是平權的一個概念。"],["薛部長瑞元：跟委員報告，這個平權包括兩個意義，現在你看到的是水平的平權，但是我們未來老人家越來越多，年輕人越來越少，所以如果超過65歲的通通都是免健保費的話，以後那些年輕人會受不了。"],["許委員宇甄：部長，我現在要提的，我不是叫你這個健保的部分，本席會提出的是老人福利法的修法。"],["薛部長瑞元：但是這個就是平權，世代的平權。"],["許委員宇甄：老人福利法的修法。"],["薛部長瑞元：這是世代的平權的問題。"],["許委員宇甄：所以要求老人的健保能夠全國統一，由中央編列預算，希望陳院長能夠支持。"],["陳院長建仁：我是覺得65歲的老人健保由全國編列預算，這樣就是我剛才講的，未來的世代平權就會打破了，因為……"],["許委員宇甄：我想針對這個部分……"],["陳院長建仁：現在的人都可以活到85歲。"],["許委員宇甄：我覺得你這樣子可能會造成大家都把人口移到有補助的縣市，那不是一樣的問題喔！"],["陳院長建仁：不，這個是……"],["薛部長瑞元：沒有、沒有。"],["許委員宇甄：因為財劃法還沒有修法，地方的自主財源還是不足。"],["陳院長建仁：這個要跟地方政府要說明……"],["許委員宇甄：所以是不是希望中央能夠儘快地統一辦理老人健保的一個補助……"],["陳院長建仁：我們沒有辦法這樣做。我們沒有辦法這樣做。"],["許委員宇甄：讓我們能夠達到這個健保平權的問題？","好，那我們繼續再探討的是下一個議題，就是有關國軍訓場睦鄰經費使用方式的檢討。請教院長，您知不知道國軍編列睦鄰經費的目的是什麼？"],["陳院長建仁：因為國軍在不同的地區會有相關訓練的場所，那當然對民眾會有一些影響，所以我們就會編列一些睦鄰的經費來謝謝這些民眾提供這些場所。我想最好的方式請部長來說。"],["許委員宇甄：簡單來說，其實就是國軍在海上或陸上的演習，對民眾造成影響或者是損害犧牲的補償。所以請教一下部長，您覺得現行的補償方式公平嗎？有真正補償到受影響的民眾嗎？"],["邱部長國正：我跟委員報告，這個補償方法大概從民國96年開始，這當中也有很多意見，一開始是發到縣，縣的話地方鄉鎮市區就有意見。像我們這個錢是補償到鄉鎮市區，這樣它可以直接作業，因為這個費用的經費運用有一個規範，不是講我們訂的，要經過討論的，要用在地方建設或者對這個路……補足，所以都會有一些爭議。那委員剛剛說有意見……"],["許委員宇甄：部長，您剛剛提到的是補貼到鄉鎮市公所嘛！"],["邱部長國正：是的，沒錯。"],["許委員宇甄：那鄉鎮公所一定能夠瞭解民眾的需求嗎？舉例來說，國軍對海射擊影響的是漁民，最瞭解漁民需求的到底是誰？當然是漁會。但是補助的經費卻編給公所。所以變成睦鄰經費的30%就根據睦鄰經費要點的規定，是要做海岸設施改善或海洋生態保護，而且所有針對這個辦法所做的海洋生態保護不得低於其補助的30%，現在卻補助給公所，他們根本不瞭解漁會、漁民的需求，所以為什麼不能直接把經費給漁會？"],["邱部長國正：我跟委員報告，漁會它是一個法人團體，我們這個一定要公務機關，鄉鎮市區公所它是一個公務機關。但鄉鎮市區公所應該要徵求當地不管是漁民或漁會，有哪個地方會被影響到，就應該一樣把它納入撥補。"],["許委員宇甄：那如果公所因為地方的種種因素導致協調困難，漁民根本享受不到睦鄰經費的照顧呢？"],["邱部長國正：我跟委員報告，問題經常就出在這個地方，鄉鎮市區公所裡面跟有些團體可能有一些問題，所以就分配不夠均勻，也造成地方上一直有一些問題和聲音出來。"],["許委員宇甄：剛剛部長提到因為漁會是人民團體，所以不能直接補助。那請問農業部有直接補助給漁會嗎？"],["陳院長建仁：看農業部哪一種補助嘛！如果是該補助給漁會的，這個當然可以，但是這兩個情況是不一樣的。"],["許委員宇甄：既然農業部也可以補助給人民團體，一樣是行政單位，為什麼農業部可以直接補助給漁會，國防部不行？"],["邱部長國正：不是這樣子的。"],["陳院長建仁：這不一樣。"],["邱部長國正：我跟委員報告，地方鄉鎮市區政府可以問這些漁會，把它納進來，也一樣擺在這個裡面。"],["許委員宇甄：部長，如果真的有做到，我今天不會在這邊質詢你這樣的問題。"],["邱部長國正：所以這個問題就跟委員報告……"],["許委員宇甄：所以剛剛講的規定不能改嗎？不符合需求我覺得就應該要修正啊！到底是什麼原因只能給公所，不能給漁會？"],["邱部長國正：但是法規就規定一定要公部門對公部門。"],["許委員宇甄：因為事實上公所其實都沒有跟漁會協調啦！真正瞭解漁民需求的應該就是漁會，他們最瞭解。所以說我是建議啦，如果國防不能直接補助給漁會是法源的問題，OK，那國防部可不可以把這相關的經費給農業部，讓農業部來補助給漁會呢？"],["邱部長國正：部會之間……"],["許委員宇甄：這樣是不是就能夠達到這樣的目的呢？"],["邱部長國正：這個一碼歸一碼。"],["陳院長建仁：我是覺得這樣啦，委員，如果覺得在地方的鄉鎮做得不盡完善的時候，我們會請他們再跟漁會、農會，或者是水利會，anyway只要這一些民間的團體有更好的溝通、讓這個分配更合理，我想我們也來拜託相關的地方政府來做好這件事情。"],["許委員宇甄：因為剛剛部長有提到，其實這個睦鄰經費工作要點在去年的12月有做一個重大的修正，可是那時候可能剛好在選舉，都沒有經過充分的溝通就貿然修訂了。所以現在您知道嗎？我們以新竹區漁會來說，它跨越了新竹縣跟新竹市的多個鄉鎮，以往是每個鄉鎮都可以有30%的補助，現在最高只有這個經費的30%，所以對他們來說，這樣的新修訂的要點不但沒有增加他們經費的補助，反而還大幅地減少，形同減半再減半。這種沒經過溝通就刪減經費的做法其實不是很理想，所以請問院長跟部長，是不是能夠重新檢討，恢復原本的補助方式呢？"],["陳院長建仁：我們讓部長來回答。"],["邱部長國正：我跟委員報告一下，有關剛剛委員提到的這些問題，當初全部平均地分配就造成問題：我的影響大，為什麼跟他影響小的一樣？所以紛紛擾擾的問題沒有停過，我們也很傷腦筋。但是我跟委員報告，我們目前任何做法在公告之前一定是經過大家協調的，不會沒有講就貿然……"],["許委員宇甄：今天本席會在這邊質詢這個問題就是漁會、漁業界和漁民有一些反彈的聲音，所以是不是能夠請部長在這邊也提出一些建議的方式，在1個月內回復本席，好嗎？謝謝。"],["邱部長國正：好。"],["陳院長建仁：我們未來在協調的時候來看看怎麼樣來加強。"],["許委員宇甄：然後另外我想請教的就是說，其實這個睦鄰政策當時就是因為在演訓過程中對漁業造成傷害，或者是發生影響他們生計的狀況，以111年臺東海域為例，3到6月是他們的漁汛期，但是當年度的6月有中科院、有海軍、有陸軍等單位共計43天的火砲射擊演習，若再加上天候不佳不能出海，等於整個漁汛期都報銷了，所以在這邊想請教部長，如果沒有辦法增加經費的話，至少要恢復原補助的標準，因為這個問題會影響到的產業主管機關是農業部，我想請教農業部部長您的意見是什麼？"],["陳代理部長駿季：基本上整個漁業捕撈的時候，它有它特定的一些漁汛期，就像剛才誠如委員所說的，在漁汛期……"],["許委員宇甄：我剛提的是說未來……如果剛剛講的這個補助不能直接給漁會，那你們其實很多補助是直接給漁會，是不是國防部如果撥補給你們或者是給地方的縣市政府，再給漁會，就解決這樣的問題？"],["陳代理部長駿季：我想這是根據相關的法規，不過基本上我們農業部願意在如果有一些紛爭的時候，我想我們可以，因為我們跟漁會會比較熟，我們也可以比較瞭解它的狀況，可以協助國防部來做溝通。"],["許委員宇甄：是不是可以把相關改善的具體方案1個月內提供給本席好嗎？好，謝謝。","接下來要跟院長討論的是電價調漲的問題，院長您可以看到，這個是本席特別將您跟蔡英文總統在2015年選舉時講過的話整理出來，那時候不管是蔡總統或院長您都提到臺灣電力供應是足夠的，漲價的機率不會太高，那蔡總統也說10年內不會大漲。請問院長，你可不可以說一下什麼叫做大漲？大漲的定義是什麼？不會大漲又是怎樣？"],["陳院長建仁：我想天有不測風雲，全世界不管哪一個國家都不會料想到有俄烏戰爭，俄烏戰爭發生以後，所有的燃料就增加，我想即使是神仙，他也可能很難猜到，所以不能夠拿2015年、2016年的情況來講。那什麼叫做大漲呢？如果按照俄烏戰爭引起的電費、燃料費增加的話，各國的大漲都是漲在50%到2倍以上……"],["許委員宇甄：院長，從你們上任到現在，已經調漲了3次……"],["陳院長建仁：調漲2次，一次8%，一次11%。"],["許委員宇甄：累積漲幅已經高達31%，今年4月又要再調漲，就我的瞭解，現在是針對民生用電330度以下都不能……"],["陳院長建仁：等一下，委員你那個總漲幅31%……"],["許委員宇甄：那是累進的。"],["陳院長建仁：你怎麼算出來的？"],["許委員宇甄：是累進的漲幅。"],["陳院長建仁：怎麼累法也不會累到這樣啊！"],["許委員宇甄：這是累進，不是3個相加，這個部分之後可以請王美花部長再告訴你，這個是累進稅率的關係……"],["陳院長建仁：委員，你即使是……"],["許委員宇甄：可能因為院長您學的不是這方面，我學的是統計，待會可以請王美花部長跟您說明。"],["陳院長建仁：好。"],["許委員宇甄：基本度數不調漲的這個原則，我想這個部分我們都知道，其實主要的問題是什麼？就是錯誤的能源政策嘛！我們可以看到，這次要調漲的是針對民生用電基本度數330度以下的也都要調漲，而且是不分級距的全面調漲。執政講求的是誠信，所以本席希望你們能夠遵守蔡英文總統的承諾，基本度數不調漲，可以嗎？"],["陳院長建仁：電價能不能調漲，我們有一個電價審議委員會來做全盤的評估，這有不同的學者專家、社會的公正人士，他們才能夠為這件事情做最後的決定，我們沒有辦法……"],["許委員宇甄：院長，其實美國商會跟歐洲商會都對我國提出示警，建議蔡政府應該要確保可長久、有具競爭力的能源，而且強調這個對我國的經濟成長可以說是至關重要，所以蔡英文政府錯誤的能源政策不但造成工業、民生用電的不穩，還讓台電虧損連連……"],["陳院長建仁：我沒有辦法贊成，說這是錯誤的政策，我沒有辦法贊成。"],["許委員宇甄：到去年為止負債已經超過3,826億了。其實在蔡總統上任之前，我們還有一個電價平穩基金，還有剩800多億的盈餘，再加上到目前累積的虧損是3,826億，也就是已經虧損了4,600多億，這個如果不是錯誤的能源政策所導致的，那怎麼有可能造成這樣子的一個大漲呢？"],["王部長美花：沒有，台電的虧損其實真的是俄烏戰爭之後才造成的。"],["許委員宇甄：大家看一下下一張，從這個表格可以看到我們未來電價飆漲的危機。所以院長，我想現在您看到的是有關核能、燃煤、燃氣跟再生能源，沒有人會反對綠能，我們想問的只是，台電現在預估2024年核能發電只有111億度，2025年非核家園之後將歸零，若以2023年核能發電的170億度到2025年歸零，這個電缺口要從哪個能源來補？蔡政府目前是要以天然氣、綠能來替代，這兩年這兩類的發電成本都偏高，這將使電價越來越高，所以院長還認同您2015年所說的「漲價機率不太高」這句話嗎？"],["陳院長建仁：剛才講過俄烏戰爭造成燃料的費用大量增加，如果委員你來看核能跟再生能源的占比，核能的占比實際上是很低的……"],["許委員宇甄：可以看核能現在的狀況，你看我們其實核能每度的均價是1.09元，再生能源、天然氣是5.58元及3.99元……"],["陳院長建仁：但是這裡沒有包括核廢料處理，還有核除役以後的經費，我們是債留子孫。"],["許委員宇甄：所以您就可以看得到……"],["陳院長建仁：如果這樣算，是債留子孫。"],["許委員宇甄：其實我想以核能來說，確實是一個安全，而且也是各國都能夠接受的一個現在的綠電。還有，再請教一下院長，您知道天然氣的售價有所謂的亞洲溢價嗎？"],["陳院長建仁：核能，RE100沒有承認是綠電，核能不是綠電，不是RE100承認的綠電。"],["許委員宇甄：院長您知道嗎？我們天然氣有一個所謂的亞洲溢價，您知道這個名詞嗎？"],["王部長美花：亞洲……"],["許委員宇甄：亞洲的溢價。好，我告訴部長，這是美國天然氣的供應商考量運輸到亞洲，因為成本一定會增加，所以他們必須要增加一些亞洲溢價，才有供應商願意供應，相對地，天然氣成本就會大幅飆漲。所以剛剛講到的烏俄戰爭才會造成台電的虧損金額高達2,675億……"],["王部長美花：不是，天然氣……"],["許委員宇甄：所以如果我們不要那麼倚重天然氣，虧損也不會那麼大，所以我想……"],["王部長美花：天然氣在過去俄烏之前的價格，亞洲沒有比其他地方貴……"],["許委員宇甄：可以看一下天然氣5年的走勢圖，各位可以看一下這個走勢圖，我們就可以看到亞洲的價格就是比較高，而我國天然氣的占比高達50%……"],["陳院長建仁：這跟它運費有關……"],["許委員宇甄：本席要提醒院長，未來天然氣採購價格很可能會再出現所謂的臺灣溢價……"],["王部長美花：沒有，天然氣要看是管線氣還是運輸氣……"],["許委員宇甄：請問一下院長，您同不同意檢討我們現行的能源政策？"],["陳院長建仁：我想我們的能源政策經過檢討以後，我們就是用剛才這樣的配比來努力，我們發展綠能，我們現在用燃氣……"],["許委員宇甄：所以院長同意要檢討我們現行的能源政策？"],["陳院長建仁：但是核能的部分，我要跟委員講，你講核能的部分，實際上核能到目前為止都到了除役階段、到達延役階段了……"],["許委員宇甄：所以本席在這邊，最後跟院長提出來，就是希望你們能夠檢討錯誤的能源政策……"],["陳院長建仁：沒有錯誤啦！我不認為有錯誤……"],["許委員宇甄：本席在這邊具體要請院長針對電價的部分，有兩項我們是不是能夠不要調漲？第一個就是農業、漁業，還有一些公益團體，還有學生、社福機構，本次的調漲能夠比照2022年的做法，讓電價不調漲，所需的經費由中央來補助，請問院長，可以嗎？"],["陳院長建仁：電價的調漲，我們會很細緻，而且很精緻，像以往一樣很精緻來做，但是調不調漲、哪個項目調不調漲，還是要讓審議委員會來做決定……"],["許委員宇甄：本席就是希望農漁業、學校跟社福團體的這兩個電價所調需的費用不要調漲，由中央補助，謝謝。"],["主席：謝謝許委員宇甄的質詢，也謝謝陳院長的備詢。","報告院會，現在我們休息10分鐘，現在休息。","休息（15時58分）","繼續開會（16時8分）"]],"agenda":{"page_end":174,"meet_id":"院會-11-1-3","speakers":["韓國瑜","林宜瑾","黃仁","林俊憲","邱若華","陳素月","鄭天財Sra 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\"請問現在現行是6年就沒有這個問題嗎?為什麼改成4年就會有這個問題呢?感覺像這個就是邏輯不通啊。這個我想陸委會主委比較清楚全部的來龍去脈。基本上我想委員大概都知道啦,這個我們從憲法徵求條文裡面他就特別做的這樣的規定。\", \"words\": [{\"word\": \"請\"}, {\"word\": \"問\"}, {\"word\": \"現\"}, {\"word\": \"在\", \"start\": 405.194, \"end\": 405.214, \"score\": 0.0}, {\"word\": \"現\"}, {\"word\": \"行\", \"start\": 405.214, \"end\": 405.314, \"score\": 0.8}, {\"word\": \"是\", \"start\": 405.314, \"end\": 405.354, \"score\": 0.497}, {\"word\": \"6\"}, {\"word\": \"年\", \"start\": 405.354, \"end\": 405.454, \"score\": 0.8}, {\"word\": \"就\", \"start\": 405.454, \"end\": 405.474, \"score\": 0.0}, {\"word\": \"沒\", \"start\": 405.474, \"end\": 405.494, \"score\": 0.0}, {\"word\": \"有\", \"start\": 405.494, \"end\": 405.514, \"score\": 0.0}, {\"word\": \"這\"}, {\"word\": \"個\"}, {\"word\": \"問\"}, {\"word\": \"題\"}, {\"word\": \"嗎\"}, {\"word\": \"?\"}, {\"word\": \"為\"}, {\"word\": \"什\", \"start\": 405.514, \"end\": 405.594, \"score\": 0.75}, {\"word\": \"麼\"}, {\"word\": \"改\", \"start\": 405.594, 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0.75}, {\"word\": \"通\", \"start\": 406.555, \"end\": 406.575, \"score\": 0.0}, {\"word\": \"啊\", \"start\": 406.575, \"end\": 406.595, \"score\": 0.0}, {\"word\": \"。\"}, {\"word\": \"這\"}, {\"word\": \"個\"}, {\"word\": \"我\", \"start\": 406.595, \"end\": 406.635, \"score\": 0.497}, {\"word\": \"想\", \"start\": 406.635, \"end\": 406.735, \"score\": 0.771}, {\"word\": \"陸\"}, {\"word\": \"委\", \"start\": 406.735, \"end\": 406.855, \"score\": 0.822}, {\"word\": \"會\"}, {\"word\": \"主\", \"start\": 406.855, \"end\": 407.015, \"score\": 0.875}, {\"word\": \"委\", \"start\": 407.015, \"end\": 407.175, \"score\": 0.86}, {\"word\": \"比\", \"start\": 407.175, \"end\": 407.335, \"score\": 0.874}, {\"word\": \"較\"}, {\"word\": \"清\", \"start\": 407.335, \"end\": 407.575, \"score\": 0.916}, {\"word\": \"楚\", \"start\": 407.575, \"end\": 407.755, \"score\": 0.886}, {\"word\": \"全\", \"start\": 407.755, \"end\": 407.875, \"score\": 0.833}, {\"word\": \"部\", \"start\": 407.875, \"end\": 407.895, \"score\": 0.0}, {\"word\": \"的\", \"start\": 407.895, \"end\": 407.915, \"score\": 0.001}, {\"word\": \"來\"}, {\"word\": \"龍\"}, {\"word\": \"去\", \"start\": 407.915, \"end\": 407.955, \"score\": 0.496}, {\"word\": \"脈\"}, {\"word\": \"。\"}, {\"word\": \"基\", \"start\": 407.955, \"end\": 407.996, \"score\": 0.5}, {\"word\": \"本\", \"start\": 407.996, \"end\": 408.076, \"score\": 0.75}, {\"word\": \"上\", \"start\": 408.076, \"end\": 408.136, \"score\": 0.659}, {\"word\": \"我\", \"start\": 408.136, \"end\": 408.156, \"score\": 0.0}, {\"word\": \"想\", \"start\": 408.156, \"end\": 408.276, \"score\": 0.831}, {\"word\": \"委\", \"start\": 408.276, \"end\": 408.416, \"score\": 0.723}, {\"word\": \"員\"}, {\"word\": \"大\", \"start\": 408.416, \"end\": 408.436, \"score\": 0.0}, {\"word\": \"概\", \"start\": 408.436, \"end\": 408.456, \"score\": 0.0}, {\"word\": \"都\", \"start\": 408.456, \"end\": 408.676, \"score\": 0.896}, {\"word\": \"知\", \"start\": 408.676, \"end\": 408.696, \"score\": 0.0}, {\"word\": \"道\", \"start\": 408.696, \"end\": 408.916, \"score\": 0.904}, {\"word\": \"啦\", \"start\": 408.916, \"end\": 409.136, \"score\": 0.908}, {\"word\": \",\"}, {\"word\": \"這\"}, {\"word\": \"個\"}, {\"word\": \"我\", \"start\": 409.136, \"end\": 409.236, \"score\": 0.79}, {\"word\": \"們\"}, {\"word\": \"從\"}, {\"word\": \"憲\"}, {\"word\": \"法\", \"start\": 409.236, \"end\": 409.356, \"score\": 0.835}, {\"word\": \"徵\"}, {\"word\": \"求\", \"start\": 409.356, \"end\": 409.396, \"score\": 0.489}, {\"word\": \"條\"}, {\"word\": \"文\", \"start\": 409.396, \"end\": 409.516, \"score\": 0.833}, {\"word\": \"裡\"}, {\"word\": \"面\", \"start\": 409.516, \"end\": 409.536, \"score\": 0.0}, {\"word\": \"他\", \"start\": 409.536, \"end\": 409.556, \"score\": 0.0}, {\"word\": \"就\", \"start\": 409.556, \"end\": 409.636, \"score\": 0.75}, {\"word\": \"特\", \"start\": 409.636, \"end\": 409.676, \"score\": 0.496}, {\"word\": \"別\", \"start\": 409.676, \"end\": 409.696, \"score\": 0.0}, {\"word\": \"做\", \"start\": 409.696, \"end\": 409.776, \"score\": 0.749}, {\"word\": \"的\", \"start\": 409.776, \"end\": 409.816, \"score\": 0.496}, {\"word\": \"這\"}, {\"word\": \"樣\"}, {\"word\": \"的\", \"start\": 409.816, \"end\": 409.916, \"score\": 0.8}, {\"word\": \"規\"}, {\"word\": \"定\", \"start\": 409.916, \"end\": 409.937, \"score\": 0.0}, {\"word\": \"。\"}]}, {\"start\": 432.403, \"end\": 432.483, \"text\": \"主席\", \"words\": [{\"word\": \"主\", \"start\": 432.403, \"end\": 432.463, \"score\": 0.666}, {\"word\": \"席\", \"start\": 432.463, \"end\": 432.483, \"score\": 0.0}]}, {\"start\": 447.463, \"end\": 449.824, \"text\": \"請問院長你有沒有看過2020年6月出版的公民與政治權利國際公約的執行情形?\", \"words\": [{\"word\": \"請\"}, {\"word\": \"問\"}, {\"word\": \"院\", \"start\": 447.463, \"end\": 447.623, \"score\": 0.849}, {\"word\": \"長\"}, {\"word\": \"你\", \"start\": 447.623, \"end\": 447.743, \"score\": 0.833}, {\"word\": \"有\", \"start\": 447.743, \"end\": 447.843, \"score\": 0.791}, {\"word\": \"沒\", \"start\": 447.843, \"end\": 448.003, \"score\": 0.859}, {\"word\": \"有\", \"start\": 448.003, \"end\": 448.143, \"score\": 0.851}, {\"word\": \"看\", \"start\": 448.143, \"end\": 448.544, \"score\": 0.943}, {\"word\": \"過\"}, {\"word\": \"2\"}, {\"word\": \"0\"}, {\"word\": \"2\"}, {\"word\": \"0\"}, {\"word\": \"年\", \"start\": 448.544, \"end\": 448.644, \"score\": 0.8}, {\"word\": \"6\"}, {\"word\": \"月\", \"start\": 448.644, \"end\": 448.744, \"score\": 0.795}, {\"word\": \"出\", \"start\": 448.744, \"end\": 448.844, \"score\": 0.796}, {\"word\": \"版\", \"start\": 448.844, \"end\": 448.924, \"score\": 0.75}, {\"word\": \"的\", \"start\": 448.924, \"end\": 448.984, \"score\": 0.663}, {\"word\": \"公\", \"start\": 448.984, \"end\": 449.064, \"score\": 0.75}, {\"word\": \"民\", \"start\": 449.064, \"end\": 449.144, \"score\": 0.736}, {\"word\": \"與\"}, {\"word\": \"政\", \"start\": 449.144, \"end\": 449.264, \"score\": 0.821}, {\"word\": \"治\", \"start\": 449.264, \"end\": 449.284, \"score\": 0.0}, {\"word\": \"權\"}, {\"word\": \"利\", \"start\": 449.284, \"end\": 449.304, \"score\": 0.007}, {\"word\": \"國\"}, {\"word\": \"際\"}, {\"word\": \"公\", \"start\": 449.304, \"end\": 449.524, \"score\": 0.898}, {\"word\": \"約\"}, {\"word\": \"的\", \"start\": 449.524, \"end\": 449.624, \"score\": 0.794}, {\"word\": \"執\"}, {\"word\": \"行\", \"start\": 449.624, \"end\": 449.704, \"score\": 0.75}, {\"word\": \"情\", \"start\": 449.704, \"end\": 449.804, \"score\": 0.798}, {\"word\": \"形\", \"start\": 449.804, \"end\": 449.824, \"score\": 0.0}, {\"word\": \"?\"}]}, {\"start\": 474.314, \"end\": 498.856, \"text\": \"簽約國根據公約的第40條提交的第三次國家的報告請院長看一下在第61頁的第239點大陸配偶來台取得身份證年限調整為外籍配偶一致以凝聚臺灣地區與大陸地區人民關係條例第17條的修正草案上代立法院完成立法程序\", \"words\": [{\"word\": \"簽\"}, {\"word\": \"約\"}, {\"word\": \"國\"}, {\"word\": \"根\", \"start\": 474.314, \"end\": 475.155, \"score\": 0.908}, {\"word\": \"據\"}, {\"word\": \"公\", \"start\": 475.155, \"end\": 475.435, \"score\": 0.918}, {\"word\": \"約\"}, {\"word\": \"的\", \"start\": 475.435, \"end\": 475.595, \"score\": 0.995}, {\"word\": \"第\", \"start\": 475.595, \"end\": 476.496, \"score\": 0.933}, {\"word\": \"4\"}, {\"word\": \"0\"}, {\"word\": \"條\"}, {\"word\": \"提\", \"start\": 476.496, \"end\": 476.656, \"score\": 0.998}, {\"word\": \"交\", \"start\": 476.656, \"end\": 476.836, \"score\": 0.936}, {\"word\": \"的\", \"start\": 476.836, \"end\": 477.036, \"score\": 0.999}, {\"word\": \"第\", \"start\": 477.036, \"end\": 477.276, \"score\": 0.988}, {\"word\": \"三\", \"start\": 477.276, \"end\": 477.637, \"score\": 1.0}, {\"word\": \"次\", \"start\": 477.637, \"end\": 478.177, \"score\": 0.935}, {\"word\": \"國\"}, {\"word\": \"家\", \"start\": 478.177, \"end\": 478.357, \"score\": 1.0}, {\"word\": \"的\", \"start\": 478.357, \"end\": 478.818, \"score\": 0.956}, {\"word\": \"報\"}, {\"word\": \"告\", \"start\": 478.818, \"end\": 479.779, \"score\": 0.977}, {\"word\": \"請\"}, {\"word\": \"院\", \"start\": 479.779, \"end\": 480.079, \"score\": 0.888}, {\"word\": \"長\"}, {\"word\": \"看\", \"start\": 480.079, \"end\": 480.219, \"score\": 0.944}, {\"word\": \"一\", \"start\": 480.219, \"end\": 480.339, \"score\": 0.833}, {\"word\": \"下\", \"start\": 480.339, \"end\": 480.76, \"score\": 0.959}, {\"word\": \"在\", \"start\": 480.76, \"end\": 481.22, \"score\": 1.0}, {\"word\": \"第\", \"start\": 481.22, \"end\": 482.161, \"score\": 0.915}, {\"word\": \"6\"}, {\"word\": \"1\"}, {\"word\": \"頁\"}, {\"word\": \"的\", \"start\": 482.161, \"end\": 482.361, \"score\": 0.998}, {\"word\": \"第\", \"start\": 482.361, \"end\": 484.063, \"score\": 0.93}, {\"word\": \"2\"}, {\"word\": \"3\"}, {\"word\": \"9\"}, {\"word\": \"點\"}, {\"word\": \"大\", \"start\": 484.063, \"end\": 484.603, \"score\": 0.963}, {\"word\": \"陸\"}, {\"word\": \"配\", \"start\": 484.603, \"end\": 484.783, \"score\": 0.991}, {\"word\": \"偶\", \"start\": 484.783, \"end\": 485.244, \"score\": 0.955}, {\"word\": \"來\"}, {\"word\": \"台\", \"start\": 485.244, \"end\": 485.484, \"score\": 0.99}, {\"word\": \"取\", \"start\": 485.484, \"end\": 485.664, \"score\": 0.994}, {\"word\": \"得\", \"start\": 485.664, \"end\": 485.924, \"score\": 0.922}, {\"word\": \"身\", \"start\": 485.924, \"end\": 486.104, \"score\": 0.904}, {\"word\": \"份\", \"start\": 486.104, \"end\": 486.465, \"score\": 0.932}, {\"word\": \"證\"}, {\"word\": \"年\", \"start\": 486.465, \"end\": 486.745, \"score\": 0.999}, {\"word\": \"限\", \"start\": 486.745, \"end\": 487.606, \"score\": 0.959}, {\"word\": \"調\"}, {\"word\": \"整\", \"start\": 487.606, \"end\": 488.086, \"score\": 0.955}, {\"word\": \"為\"}, {\"word\": \"外\", \"start\": 488.086, \"end\": 488.306, \"score\": 0.99}, {\"word\": \"籍\", \"start\": 488.306, \"end\": 488.487, \"score\": 0.898}, {\"word\": \"配\", \"start\": 488.487, \"end\": 488.667, \"score\": 0.993}, {\"word\": \"偶\", \"start\": 488.667, \"end\": 488.827, \"score\": 0.879}, {\"word\": \"一\", \"start\": 488.827, \"end\": 489.027, \"score\": 0.923}, {\"word\": \"致\", \"start\": 489.027, \"end\": 489.908, \"score\": 0.998}, {\"word\": \"以\", \"start\": 489.908, \"end\": 490.108, \"score\": 0.961}, {\"word\": \"凝\", \"start\": 490.108, \"end\": 490.408, \"score\": 0.933}, {\"word\": \"聚\", \"start\": 490.408, \"end\": 491.229, \"score\": 0.928}, {\"word\": \"臺\"}, {\"word\": \"灣\"}, {\"word\": \"地\", \"start\": 491.229, \"end\": 491.669, \"score\": 0.913}, {\"word\": \"區\"}, {\"word\": \"與\"}, {\"word\": \"大\", \"start\": 491.669, \"end\": 491.85, \"score\": 0.992}, {\"word\": \"陸\"}, {\"word\": \"地\", \"start\": 491.85, \"end\": 492.15, \"score\": 0.869}, {\"word\": \"區\"}, {\"word\": \"人\", \"start\": 492.15, \"end\": 492.31, \"score\": 1.0}, {\"word\": \"民\", \"start\": 492.31, \"end\": 493.451, \"score\": 0.944}, {\"word\": \"關\"}, {\"word\": \"係\"}, {\"word\": \"條\"}, {\"word\": \"例\", \"start\": 493.451, \"end\": 493.651, \"score\": 0.9}, {\"word\": \"第\", \"start\": 493.651, \"end\": 494.492, \"score\": 0.928}, {\"word\": \"1\"}, {\"word\": \"7\"}, {\"word\": \"條\"}, {\"word\": \"的\", \"start\": 494.492, \"end\": 494.652, \"score\": 0.998}, {\"word\": \"修\", \"start\": 494.652, \"end\": 494.912, \"score\": 0.981}, {\"word\": \"正\", \"start\": 494.912, \"end\": 495.293, \"score\": 0.989}, {\"word\": \"草\", \"start\": 495.293, \"end\": 495.533, \"score\": 0.987}, {\"word\": \"案\", \"start\": 495.533, \"end\": 496.213, \"score\": 0.997}, {\"word\": \"上\", \"start\": 496.213, \"end\": 496.414, \"score\": 0.998}, {\"word\": \"代\", \"start\": 496.414, \"end\": 496.594, \"score\": 0.998}, {\"word\": \"立\", \"start\": 496.594, \"end\": 496.754, \"score\": 0.881}, {\"word\": \"法\", \"start\": 496.754, \"end\": 496.934, \"score\": 1.0}, {\"word\": \"院\", \"start\": 496.934, \"end\": 497.555, \"score\": 1.0}, {\"word\": \"完\", \"start\": 497.555, \"end\": 497.915, \"score\": 0.97}, {\"word\": \"成\", \"start\": 497.915, \"end\": 498.215, \"score\": 0.981}, {\"word\": \"立\", \"start\": 498.215, \"end\": 498.415, \"score\": 0.925}, {\"word\": \"法\", \"start\": 498.415, \"end\": 498.596, \"score\": 1.0}, {\"word\": \"程\", \"start\": 498.596, \"end\": 498.836, \"score\": 0.948}, {\"word\": \"序\", \"start\": 498.836, \"end\": 498.856, \"score\": 0.533}]}, {\"start\": 499.564, \"end\": 516.434, \"text\": \"請問院長,行政院修法的版本在哪裡?行政院沒有修法的版本,這是我們在執行情形的時候請國際學者來評估,然後他也聽了我們國內的專家還有人民的意見以後所提的。\", \"words\": [{\"word\": \"請\"}, {\"word\": \"問\"}, {\"word\": \"院\", \"start\": 499.564, \"end\": 500.285, \"score\": 0.97}, {\"word\": \"長\"}, {\"word\": \",\"}, {\"word\": \"行\", \"start\": 500.285, \"end\": 500.465, \"score\": 0.966}, {\"word\": \"政\", \"start\": 500.465, \"end\": 500.605, \"score\": 0.833}, {\"word\": \"院\", \"start\": 500.605, \"end\": 500.905, \"score\": 0.997}, {\"word\": \"修\", \"start\": 500.905, \"end\": 501.085, \"score\": 0.892}, {\"word\": \"法\", \"start\": 501.085, \"end\": 501.245, \"score\": 0.959}, {\"word\": \"的\", \"start\": 501.245, \"end\": 501.365, \"score\": 0.992}, {\"word\": \"版\", \"start\": 501.365, \"end\": 501.565, \"score\": 0.986}, {\"word\": \"本\", \"start\": 501.565, \"end\": 501.725, \"score\": 0.996}, {\"word\": \"在\", \"start\": 501.725, \"end\": 501.886, \"score\": 0.999}, {\"word\": \"哪\", \"start\": 501.886, \"end\": 502.786, \"score\": 0.934}, {\"word\": \"裡\"}, {\"word\": \"?\"}, {\"word\": \"行\", \"start\": 502.786, \"end\": 502.946, \"score\": 0.853}, {\"word\": \"政\", \"start\": 502.946, \"end\": 503.066, \"score\": 0.822}, {\"word\": \"院\", \"start\": 503.066, \"end\": 503.426, \"score\": 0.946}, {\"word\": \"沒\", \"start\": 503.426, \"end\": 503.626, \"score\": 0.819}, {\"word\": \"有\", \"start\": 503.626, \"end\": 503.967, \"score\": 0.997}, {\"word\": \"修\", \"start\": 503.967, \"end\": 504.147, \"score\": 0.754}, {\"word\": \"法\", \"start\": 504.147, \"end\": 504.267, \"score\": 0.731}, {\"word\": \"的\", \"start\": 504.267, \"end\": 504.387, \"score\": 0.791}, {\"word\": \"版\", \"start\": 504.387, \"end\": 504.547, \"score\": 0.861}, {\"word\": \"本\", \"start\": 504.547, \"end\": 505.027, \"score\": 0.856}, {\"word\": \",\"}, {\"word\": \"這\"}, {\"word\": \"是\", \"start\": 505.027, \"end\": 505.588, \"score\": 0.992}, {\"word\": \"我\", \"start\": 505.588, \"end\": 505.928, \"score\": 0.87}, {\"word\": \"們\"}, {\"word\": \"在\", \"start\": 505.928, \"end\": 507.128, \"score\": 0.978}, {\"word\": \"執\"}, {\"word\": \"行\", \"start\": 507.128, \"end\": 507.309, \"score\": 0.961}, {\"word\": \"情\", \"start\": 507.309, \"end\": 507.529, \"score\": 0.879}, {\"word\": \"形\", \"start\": 507.529, \"end\": 507.689, \"score\": 0.85}, {\"word\": \"的\", \"start\": 507.689, \"end\": 507.949, \"score\": 0.866}, {\"word\": \"時\"}, {\"word\": \"候\", \"start\": 507.949, \"end\": 508.889, \"score\": 0.908}, {\"word\": \"請\"}, {\"word\": \"國\"}, {\"word\": \"際\"}, {\"word\": \"學\", \"start\": 508.889, \"end\": 509.31, \"score\": 0.857}, {\"word\": \"者\", \"start\": 509.31, \"end\": 510.47, \"score\": 0.916}, {\"word\": \"來\"}, {\"word\": \"評\"}, {\"word\": \"估\", \"start\": 510.47, \"end\": 510.931, \"score\": 0.979}, {\"word\": \",\"}, {\"word\": \"然\", \"start\": 510.931, \"end\": 511.091, \"score\": 0.857}, {\"word\": \"後\", \"start\": 511.091, \"end\": 511.191, \"score\": 0.492}, {\"word\": \"他\", \"start\": 511.191, \"end\": 511.471, \"score\": 0.835}, {\"word\": \"也\", \"start\": 511.471, \"end\": 511.671, \"score\": 0.788}, {\"word\": \"聽\"}, {\"word\": \"了\", \"start\": 511.671, \"end\": 511.771, \"score\": 0.731}, {\"word\": \"我\", \"start\": 511.771, \"end\": 512.151, \"score\": 0.867}, {\"word\": \"們\"}, {\"word\": \"國\"}, {\"word\": \"內\"}, {\"word\": \"的\", \"start\": 512.151, \"end\": 514.273, \"score\": 0.914}, {\"word\": \"專\"}, {\"word\": \"家\", \"start\": 514.273, \"end\": 514.573, \"score\": 0.9}, {\"word\": \"還\"}, {\"word\": \"有\", \"start\": 514.573, \"end\": 514.753, \"score\": 0.998}, {\"word\": \"人\", \"start\": 514.753, \"end\": 514.913, \"score\": 0.998}, {\"word\": \"民\", \"start\": 514.913, \"end\": 515.133, 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\"現在的這個老人健保的這個我要再請教的是有關老人健保費的補助因為現行老人健保的補助各縣市不一致70歲以上的中低收入老人的健保費是由衛福部全額補助65歲到69歲的中低收入戶的老人健保費則是以各縣市的這個\", \"words\": [{\"word\": \"現\"}, {\"word\": \"在\", \"start\": 775.815, \"end\": 776.015, \"score\": 0.892}, {\"word\": \"的\", \"start\": 776.015, \"end\": 776.496, \"score\": 0.908}, {\"word\": \"這\"}, {\"word\": \"個\"}, {\"word\": \"老\", \"start\": 776.496, \"end\": 776.676, \"score\": 0.999}, {\"word\": \"人\", \"start\": 776.676, \"end\": 776.896, \"score\": 0.999}, {\"word\": \"健\", \"start\": 776.896, \"end\": 777.097, \"score\": 0.98}, {\"word\": \"保\", \"start\": 777.097, \"end\": 777.277, \"score\": 0.988}, {\"word\": \"的\", \"start\": 777.277, \"end\": 777.837, \"score\": 0.896}, {\"word\": \"這\"}, {\"word\": \"個\"}, {\"word\": \"我\", \"start\": 777.837, \"end\": 777.957, \"score\": 0.834}, {\"word\": \"要\", \"start\": 777.957, \"end\": 778.037, \"score\": 0.75}, {\"word\": \"再\", \"start\": 778.037, \"end\": 778.718, \"score\": 0.913}, {\"word\": \"請\"}, {\"word\": \"教\", 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782.522, \"end\": 782.662, \"score\": 1.0}, {\"word\": \"人\", \"start\": 782.662, \"end\": 782.882, \"score\": 0.908}, {\"word\": \"健\", \"start\": 782.882, \"end\": 783.082, \"score\": 0.979}, {\"word\": \"保\", \"start\": 783.082, \"end\": 783.243, \"score\": 0.993}, {\"word\": \"的\", \"start\": 783.243, \"end\": 783.563, \"score\": 0.937}, {\"word\": \"補\"}, {\"word\": \"助\", \"start\": 783.563, \"end\": 783.783, \"score\": 0.991}, {\"word\": \"各\", \"start\": 783.783, \"end\": 784.083, \"score\": 0.927}, {\"word\": \"縣\"}, {\"word\": \"市\", \"start\": 784.083, \"end\": 784.404, \"score\": 0.974}, {\"word\": \"不\", \"start\": 784.404, \"end\": 784.644, \"score\": 0.956}, {\"word\": \"一\", \"start\": 784.644, \"end\": 784.864, \"score\": 0.91}, {\"word\": \"致\", \"start\": 784.864, \"end\": 785.985, \"score\": 0.904}, {\"word\": \"7\"}, {\"word\": \"0\"}, {\"word\": \"歲\"}, {\"word\": \"以\", \"start\": 785.985, \"end\": 786.085, \"score\": 0.983}, {\"word\": \"上\", \"start\": 786.085, \"end\": 786.305, \"score\": 0.951}, {\"word\": \"的\", \"start\": 786.305, \"end\": 786.486, \"score\": 0.999}, {\"word\": \"中\", \"start\": 786.486, \"end\": 786.686, \"score\": 0.957}, {\"word\": \"低\", \"start\": 786.686, \"end\": 786.866, \"score\": 0.946}, {\"word\": \"收\", \"start\": 786.866, \"end\": 787.106, \"score\": 1.0}, {\"word\": \"入\", \"start\": 787.106, \"end\": 787.507, \"score\": 1.0}, {\"word\": \"老\", \"start\": 787.507, \"end\": 787.747, \"score\": 1.0}, {\"word\": \"人\", \"start\": 787.747, \"end\": 787.927, \"score\": 0.997}, {\"word\": \"的\", \"start\": 787.927, \"end\": 788.027, \"score\": 0.982}, {\"word\": \"健\", \"start\": 788.027, \"end\": 788.207, \"score\": 0.988}, {\"word\": \"保\", \"start\": 788.207, \"end\": 788.588, \"score\": 0.946}, {\"word\": \"費\"}, {\"word\": \"是\", \"start\": 788.588, \"end\": 788.708, \"score\": 0.999}, {\"word\": \"由\", \"start\": 788.708, \"end\": 789.449, \"score\": 0.954}, {\"word\": \"衛\"}, {\"word\": \"福\", \"start\": 789.449, \"end\": 789.629, \"score\": 0.946}, {\"word\": \"部\", \"start\": 789.629, \"end\": 789.949, \"score\": 0.939}, {\"word\": \"全\", \"start\": 789.949, \"end\": 790.51, \"score\": 0.927}, {\"word\": \"額\"}, {\"word\": \"補\"}, {\"word\": \"助\", \"start\": 790.51, \"end\": 791.811, \"score\": 0.952}, {\"word\": \"6\"}, {\"word\": \"5\"}, {\"word\": \"歲\"}, {\"word\": \"到\", \"start\": 791.811, \"end\": 792.912, \"score\": 0.926}, {\"word\": \"6\"}, {\"word\": \"9\"}, {\"word\": \"歲\"}, {\"word\": \"的\", \"start\": 792.912, \"end\": 793.092, \"score\": 0.996}, {\"word\": \"中\", \"start\": 793.092, \"end\": 793.312, \"score\": 0.942}, {\"word\": \"低\", \"start\": 793.312, \"end\": 793.473, \"score\": 0.88}, {\"word\": \"收\", \"start\": 793.473, \"end\": 793.693, \"score\": 0.951}, {\"word\": \"入\", \"start\": 793.693, \"end\": 794.013, \"score\": 0.878}, {\"word\": \"戶\"}, {\"word\": \"的\", \"start\": 794.013, \"end\": 794.113, \"score\": 0.941}, {\"word\": \"老\", \"start\": 794.113, \"end\": 794.273, \"score\": 0.999}, {\"word\": \"人\", \"start\": 794.273, \"end\": 794.433, \"score\": 0.999}, {\"word\": \"健\", \"start\": 794.433, \"end\": 794.614, \"score\": 0.988}, {\"word\": \"保\", \"start\": 794.614, \"end\": 795.194, \"score\": 0.901}, {\"word\": \"費\"}, {\"word\": \"則\"}, {\"word\": \"是\", \"start\": 795.194, \"end\": 795.354, \"score\": 1.0}, {\"word\": \"以\", \"start\": 795.354, \"end\": 795.635, \"score\": 0.928}, {\"word\": \"各\", \"start\": 795.635, \"end\": 796.275, \"score\": 0.937}, {\"word\": \"縣\"}, {\"word\": \"市\", \"start\": 796.275, \"end\": 796.535, \"score\": 0.964}, {\"word\": \"的\", \"start\": 796.535, \"end\": 796.556, \"score\": 0.963}, {\"word\": \"這\"}, {\"word\": \"個\"}]}, {\"start\": 797.324, \"end\": 799.647, \"text\": \"請問院長您看到我們現在這個各縣市健保補助經費的這個表格您有什麼感想?\", \"words\": [{\"word\": \"請\"}, {\"word\": \"問\"}, {\"word\": \"院\", \"start\": 797.324, \"end\": 797.464, \"score\": 0.857}, {\"word\": \"長\"}, {\"word\": \"您\", \"start\": 797.464, \"end\": 797.544, \"score\": 0.747}, {\"word\": \"看\", \"start\": 797.544, \"end\": 797.664, \"score\": 0.833}, {\"word\": \"到\", \"start\": 797.664, \"end\": 797.685, \"score\": 0.0}, {\"word\": \"我\", \"start\": 797.685, \"end\": 797.705, \"score\": 0.0}, {\"word\": \"們\"}, {\"word\": \"現\"}, {\"word\": \"在\", \"start\": 797.705, \"end\": 797.785, \"score\": 0.75}, {\"word\": \"這\"}, {\"word\": \"個\"}, {\"word\": \"各\", \"start\": 797.785, \"end\": 797.905, \"score\": 0.833}, {\"word\": \"縣\"}, {\"word\": \"市\", \"start\": 797.905, \"end\": 798.105, \"score\": 0.9}, {\"word\": \"健\", \"start\": 798.105, \"end\": 798.225, \"score\": 0.833}, {\"word\": \"保\", \"start\": 798.225, \"end\": 798.265, \"score\": 0.499}, {\"word\": \"補\"}, {\"word\": \"助\", \"start\": 798.265, \"end\": 798.365, \"score\": 0.8}, {\"word\": \"經\"}, {\"word\": \"費\"}, {\"word\": \"的\", \"start\": 798.365, \"end\": 798.445, \"score\": 0.751}, {\"word\": \"這\"}, {\"word\": \"個\"}, {\"word\": \"表\", \"start\": 798.445, \"end\": 798.626, \"score\": 0.889}, {\"word\": \"格\", \"start\": 798.626, \"end\": 798.746, \"score\": 0.833}, {\"word\": \"您\", \"start\": 798.746, \"end\": 799.286, \"score\": 0.963}, {\"word\": \"有\", \"start\": 799.286, \"end\": 799.426, \"score\": 0.992}, {\"word\": \"什\", \"start\": 799.426, \"end\": 799.567, \"score\": 0.853}, {\"word\": \"麼\"}, {\"word\": \"感\", \"start\": 799.567, \"end\": 799.627, \"score\": 0.665}, {\"word\": \"想\", \"start\": 799.627, \"end\": 799.647, \"score\": 0.0}, {\"word\": \"?\"}]}, {\"start\": 811.949, \"end\": 835.602, \"text\": \"我想健保很重要的一件事情他也需要有永續那在永續的時候他如果有一貫的制度的話是會比較好而且也要注意到這一個世代的正義因為現在每一個人的平均壽命都在延長很多人的壽命都在延長在這樣的一個情況下如果我們就對某一個高齡的人\", \"words\": [{\"word\": \"我\", \"start\": 811.949, \"end\": 812.069, \"score\": 0.962}, {\"word\": \"想\", \"start\": 812.069, \"end\": 812.609, \"score\": 0.951}, {\"word\": \"健\", \"start\": 812.609, \"end\": 812.79, \"score\": 0.901}, {\"word\": \"保\", \"start\": 812.79, \"end\": 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0.925}, {\"word\": \"個\"}, {\"word\": \"高\", \"start\": 835.122, \"end\": 835.462, \"score\": 0.939}, {\"word\": \"齡\"}, {\"word\": \"的\", \"start\": 835.462, \"end\": 835.582, \"score\": 0.873}, {\"word\": \"人\", \"start\": 835.582, \"end\": 835.602, \"score\": 1.0}]}, {\"start\": 844.165, \"end\": 864.874, \"text\": \"本席提到的是平權就是我在別的縣市是可以享受到這個老人健保但是呢我比如說現在很多縣市包括六都他們都有這個老人健保的補助那我如果住像我之前在雲林縣我在雲林縣卻沒有辦法卻因為財政的關係沒有辦法為什麼同卡不同命\", \"words\": [{\"word\": \"本\", \"start\": 844.165, \"end\": 844.365, \"score\": 0.999}, {\"word\": \"席\", \"start\": 844.365, \"end\": 844.586, \"score\": 0.911}, {\"word\": \"提\", \"start\": 844.586, \"end\": 844.706, \"score\": 1.0}, {\"word\": \"到\", \"start\": 844.706, \"end\": 844.866, \"score\": 0.988}, {\"word\": \"的\", \"start\": 844.866, \"end\": 845.106, \"score\": 0.999}, {\"word\": \"是\", \"start\": 845.106, \"end\": 845.766, \"score\": 0.973}, {\"word\": \"平\", \"start\": 845.766, \"end\": 846.366, \"score\": 0.943}, {\"word\": \"權\"}, {\"word\": \"就\", 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1060.957, \"score\": 0.927}, {\"word\": \"經\"}, {\"word\": \"費\"}, {\"word\": \"的\", \"start\": 1060.957, \"end\": 1062.017, \"score\": 0.894}, {\"word\": \"3\"}, {\"word\": \"0\"}, {\"word\": \"%\"}, {\"word\": \"就\", \"start\": 1062.017, \"end\": 1062.157, \"score\": 1.0}, {\"word\": \"根\", \"start\": 1062.157, \"end\": 1062.497, \"score\": 0.937}, {\"word\": \"據\"}, {\"word\": \"牧\", \"start\": 1062.497, \"end\": 1062.637, \"score\": 0.742}, {\"word\": \"林\", \"start\": 1062.637, \"end\": 1063.058, \"score\": 0.89}, {\"word\": \"經\"}, {\"word\": \"費\"}, {\"word\": \"的\", \"start\": 1063.058, \"end\": 1063.158, \"score\": 0.992}, {\"word\": \"要\", \"start\": 1063.158, \"end\": 1063.698, \"score\": 0.894}, {\"word\": \"點\"}, {\"word\": \"規\"}, {\"word\": \"定\", \"start\": 1063.698, \"end\": 1063.878, \"score\": 0.992}, {\"word\": \"是\", \"start\": 1063.878, \"end\": 1063.978, \"score\": 0.952}, {\"word\": \"要\", \"start\": 1063.978, \"end\": 1064.778, \"score\": 0.999}, {\"word\": 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\"許宇甄\", \"words\": [{\"word\": \"許\", \"start\": 1068.749, \"end\": 1068.99, \"score\": 0.917}, {\"word\": \"宇\", \"start\": 1068.99, \"end\": 1069.01, \"score\": 0.0}, {\"word\": \"甄\"}]}, {\"start\": 1083.916, \"end\": 1088.86, \"text\": \"那如果公所因為地方的一個種種因素導致協調的困難,漁民根本享受不到牧林經費的照顧呢?\", \"words\": [{\"word\": \"那\", \"start\": 1083.916, \"end\": 1083.976, \"score\": 0.667}, {\"word\": \"如\", \"start\": 1083.976, \"end\": 1084.096, \"score\": 0.833}, {\"word\": \"果\", \"start\": 1084.096, \"end\": 1084.256, \"score\": 0.874}, {\"word\": \"公\", \"start\": 1084.256, \"end\": 1084.477, \"score\": 0.909}, {\"word\": \"所\", \"start\": 1084.477, \"end\": 1085.217, \"score\": 0.97}, {\"word\": \"因\", \"start\": 1085.217, \"end\": 1085.437, \"score\": 0.909}, {\"word\": \"為\"}, {\"word\": \"地\", \"start\": 1085.437, \"end\": 1085.577, \"score\": 0.853}, {\"word\": \"方\", \"start\": 1085.577, \"end\": 1085.738, \"score\": 0.871}, {\"word\": \"的\", \"start\": 1085.738, \"end\": 1085.818, \"score\": 0.794}, {\"word\": \"一\", \"start\": 1085.818, \"end\": 1085.858, \"score\": 0.993}, {\"word\": \"個\"}, {\"word\": \"種\"}, {\"word\": \"種\"}, {\"word\": \"因\", \"start\": 1085.858, \"end\": 1086.078, \"score\": 0.891}, {\"word\": \"素\", \"start\": 1086.078, \"end\": 1086.338, \"score\": 0.923}, {\"word\": \"導\"}, {\"word\": \"致\", \"start\": 1086.338, \"end\": 1086.478, \"score\": 0.857}, {\"word\": \"協\"}, {\"word\": \"調\"}, {\"word\": \"的\", \"start\": 1086.478, \"end\": 1086.558, \"score\": 0.75}, {\"word\": \"困\", \"start\": 1086.558, \"end\": 1086.859, \"score\": 0.933}, {\"word\": \"難\"}, {\"word\": \",\"}, {\"word\": \"漁\"}, {\"word\": \"民\", \"start\": 1086.859, \"end\": 1087.159, \"score\": 0.933}, {\"word\": \"根\", \"start\": 1087.159, \"end\": 1087.359, \"score\": 0.899}, {\"word\": \"本\", \"start\": 1087.359, \"end\": 1087.539, \"score\": 0.889}, {\"word\": \"享\", \"start\": 1087.539, \"end\": 1087.659, \"score\": 0.833}, {\"word\": \"受\", \"start\": 1087.659, \"end\": 1087.799, \"score\": 0.857}, {\"word\": \"不\", \"start\": 1087.799, \"end\": 1088.1, \"score\": 0.933}, {\"word\": \"到\", \"start\": 1088.1, \"end\": 1088.32, \"score\": 0.909}, {\"word\": \"牧\", \"start\": 1088.32, \"end\": 1088.72, \"score\": 0.949}, {\"word\": \"林\", \"start\": 1088.72, \"end\": 1088.8, \"score\": 0.75}, {\"word\": \"經\"}, {\"word\": \"費\"}, {\"word\": \"的\", \"start\": 1088.8, \"end\": 1088.82, \"score\": 0.001}, {\"word\": \"照\", \"start\": 1088.82, \"end\": 1088.84, \"score\": 0.0}, {\"word\": \"顧\"}, {\"word\": \"呢\", \"start\": 1088.84, \"end\": 1088.86, \"score\": 0.0}, {\"word\": \"?\"}]}, {\"start\": 1110.74, \"end\": 1113.541, \"text\": \"所以剛剛部長提到的因為漁會是人民團體所以不能直接補助那請問農業部有直接補助給漁會嗎?\", \"words\": [{\"word\": \"所\", \"start\": 1110.74, \"end\": 1110.82, \"score\": 0.75}, {\"word\": \"以\", \"start\": 1110.82, \"end\": 1110.84, \"score\": 0.0}, {\"word\": \"剛\"}, {\"word\": \"剛\"}, {\"word\": \"部\", \"start\": 1110.84, \"end\": 1110.86, \"score\": 0.0}, {\"word\": \"長\"}, {\"word\": \"提\", \"start\": 1110.86, \"end\": 1110.98, \"score\": 0.833}, {\"word\": \"到\", \"start\": 1110.98, \"end\": 1111.06, \"score\": 0.75}, {\"word\": \"的\", \"start\": 1111.06, \"end\": 1111.08, \"score\": 0.0}, {\"word\": \"因\", \"start\": 1111.08, \"end\": 1111.16, \"score\": 0.75}, {\"word\": \"為\"}, {\"word\": \"漁\"}, {\"word\": \"會\"}, {\"word\": \"是\", \"start\": 1111.16, \"end\": 1111.26, \"score\": 0.799}, {\"word\": \"人\", \"start\": 1111.26, \"end\": 1111.34, \"score\": 0.996}, {\"word\": \"民\", \"start\": 1111.34, \"end\": 1111.4, \"score\": 0.667}, {\"word\": \"團\"}, {\"word\": \"體\"}, {\"word\": \"所\", \"start\": 1111.4, \"end\": 1111.54, \"score\": 0.857}, {\"word\": \"以\", \"start\": 1111.54, \"end\": 1112.24, \"score\": 0.971}, {\"word\": \"不\", \"start\": 1112.24, \"end\": 1112.44, \"score\": 0.9}, {\"word\": \"能\", \"start\": 1112.44, \"end\": 1112.54, \"score\": 0.8}, {\"word\": \"直\", \"start\": 1112.54, \"end\": 1112.64, \"score\": 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\"對,看農業部哪一種補助嘛,如果是要該補助給漁會的這個當然可以。對,那既然農業部也可以補助給人民團體,一樣是行政單位,為什麼農業部可以直接補助給漁會?國防部不行。不是,我跟委員報告,他地方縣、鄉長市區政府可以問這些漁會,你問什麼在哪裡比較像,他把它納進來,也一樣擺在這個裡面。如果真的有做到,我今天不會在這邊質詢你這樣的問題。\", \"words\": [{\"word\": \"對\"}, {\"word\": \",\"}, {\"word\": \"看\", \"start\": 1135.15, \"end\": 1135.631, \"score\": 0.878}, {\"word\": \"農\"}, {\"word\": \"業\"}, {\"word\": \"部\", \"start\": 1135.631, \"end\": 1135.791, \"score\": 0.881}, {\"word\": \"哪\", \"start\": 1135.791, \"end\": 1135.971, \"score\": 0.894}, {\"word\": \"一\", \"start\": 1135.971, \"end\": 1136.731, \"score\": 0.931}, {\"word\": \"種\"}, {\"word\": \"補\"}, {\"word\": \"助\", \"start\": 1136.731, \"end\": 1136.891, \"score\": 0.992}, {\"word\": \"嘛\", \"start\": 1136.891, \"end\": 1137.112, \"score\": 0.91}, {\"word\": \",\"}, {\"word\": \"如\", \"start\": 1137.112, \"end\": 1137.272, \"score\": 0.932}, {\"word\": \"果\", \"start\": 1137.272, \"end\": 1137.452, \"score\": 0.997}, {\"word\": \"是\", \"start\": 1137.452, \"end\": 1138.493, \"score\": 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{\"word\": \"給\"}, {\"word\": \"漁\"}, {\"word\": \"會\"}, {\"word\": \"那\", \"start\": 1382.409, \"end\": 1382.629, \"score\": 0.989}, {\"word\": \"你\", \"start\": 1382.629, \"end\": 1383.069, \"score\": 0.923}, {\"word\": \"們\"}, {\"word\": \"其\", \"start\": 1383.069, \"end\": 1383.189, \"score\": 0.871}, {\"word\": \"實\"}, {\"word\": \"很\", \"start\": 1383.189, \"end\": 1383.349, \"score\": 0.874}, {\"word\": \"多\", \"start\": 1383.349, \"end\": 1383.65, \"score\": 0.867}, {\"word\": \"補\"}, {\"word\": \"助\", \"start\": 1383.65, \"end\": 1383.79, \"score\": 0.972}, {\"word\": \"是\", \"start\": 1383.79, \"end\": 1383.91, \"score\": 0.834}, {\"word\": \"直\", \"start\": 1383.91, \"end\": 1384.01, \"score\": 0.8}, {\"word\": \"接\", \"start\": 1384.01, \"end\": 1384.61, \"score\": 0.867}, {\"word\": \"給\"}, {\"word\": \"漁\"}, {\"word\": \"會\"}, {\"word\": \"是\", \"start\": 1384.61, \"end\": 1384.73, \"score\": 0.992}, {\"word\": \"不\", \"start\": 1384.73, \"end\": 1384.79, \"score\": 0.992}, {\"word\": \"是\", \"start\": 1384.79, \"end\": 1384.93, \"score\": 0.968}, {\"word\": \"可\", \"start\": 1384.93, \"end\": 1385.01, \"score\": 0.957}, {\"word\": \"以\", \"start\": 1385.01, \"end\": 1385.31, \"score\": 0.867}, {\"word\": \"國\"}, {\"word\": \"防\", \"start\": 1385.31, \"end\": 1385.51, \"score\": 0.987}, {\"word\": \"部\", \"start\": 1385.51, \"end\": 1385.67, \"score\": 0.873}, {\"word\": \"如\", \"start\": 1385.67, \"end\": 1385.79, \"score\": 0.833}, {\"word\": \"果\", \"start\": 1385.79, \"end\": 1385.81, \"score\": 0.0}]}, {\"start\": 1386.175, \"end\": 1387.215, \"text\": \"接下來要跟這個院長討論的是電價的調漲的問題\", \"words\": [{\"word\": \"接\", \"start\": 1386.175, \"end\": 1386.375, \"score\": 0.9}, {\"word\": \"下\", \"start\": 1386.375, \"end\": 1386.415, \"score\": 0.5}, {\"word\": \"來\"}, {\"word\": \"要\", \"start\": 1386.415, \"end\": 1386.555, \"score\": 0.857}, {\"word\": \"跟\", \"start\": 1386.555, \"end\": 1386.735, \"score\": 0.888}, {\"word\": \"這\"}, {\"word\": \"個\"}, {\"word\": \"院\", \"start\": 1386.735, \"end\": 1386.875, \"score\": 0.857}, {\"word\": \"長\"}, {\"word\": \"討\"}, {\"word\": \"論\"}, {\"word\": \"的\", \"start\": 1386.875, \"end\": 1386.975, \"score\": 0.798}, {\"word\": \"是\", \"start\": 1386.975, \"end\": 1386.995, \"score\": 0.0}, {\"word\": \"電\"}, {\"word\": \"價\"}, {\"word\": \"的\", \"start\": 1386.995, \"end\": 1387.195, \"score\": 0.9}, {\"word\": \"調\"}, {\"word\": \"漲\"}, {\"word\": \"的\", \"start\": 1387.195, \"end\": 1387.215, \"score\": 0.0}, {\"word\": \"問\"}, {\"word\": \"題\"}]}, {\"start\": 1412.621, \"end\": 1429.143, \"text\": \"院長您可以看到一下這個是本席特別將您跟蔡英文總統在2015年選舉時候講過的話整理出來那時候都不管是蔡總統或院長您都提到臺灣電力供應是足夠漲價的機率不會太高\", \"words\": [{\"word\": \"院\", \"start\": 1412.621, \"end\": 1412.922, \"score\": 0.933}, {\"word\": \"長\"}, {\"word\": \"您\", \"start\": 1412.922, \"end\": 1413.062, \"score\": 0.86}, {\"word\": \"可\", \"start\": 1413.062, \"end\": 1413.162, \"score\": 0.984}, {\"word\": \"以\", \"start\": 1413.162, 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\"蔡總統也說10年內不會大漲。請問院長你可不可以說一下什麼叫做大漲?大漲的定律是什麼?不會大漲又是怎樣?我想天有不測風雲。全世界不管哪一個國家都不會料想到有這個俄烏戰爭。而俄烏戰爭發生以後所有的染料就增加。我想\", \"words\": [{\"word\": \"蔡\", \"start\": 1430.237, \"end\": 1430.817, \"score\": 0.928}, {\"word\": \"總\"}, {\"word\": \"統\"}, {\"word\": \"也\", \"start\": 1430.817, \"end\": 1432.058, \"score\": 0.967}, {\"word\": \"說\"}, {\"word\": \"1\"}, {\"word\": \"0\"}, {\"word\": \"年\", \"start\": 1432.058, \"end\": 1432.519, \"score\": 0.956}, {\"word\": \"內\"}, {\"word\": \"不\", \"start\": 1432.519, \"end\": 1432.799, \"score\": 0.928}, {\"word\": \"會\"}, {\"word\": \"大\", \"start\": 1432.799, \"end\": 1433.72, \"score\": 0.934}, {\"word\": \"漲\"}, {\"word\": \"。\"}, {\"word\": \"請\"}, {\"word\": \"問\"}, {\"word\": \"院\", \"start\": 1433.72, \"end\": 1434.1, \"score\": 0.943}, {\"word\": \"長\"}, {\"word\": \"你\", \"start\": 1434.1, \"end\": 1434.22, \"score\": 0.996}, {\"word\": \"可\", \"start\": 1434.22, \"end\": 1434.36, \"score\": 0.882}, {\"word\": \"不\", \"start\": 1434.36, 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1675.45, \"score\": 0.952}, {\"word\": \"均\", \"start\": 1675.45, \"end\": 1675.57, \"score\": 0.871}, {\"word\": \"價\"}, {\"word\": \"是\", \"start\": 1675.57, \"end\": 1675.59, \"score\": 0.0}, {\"word\": \"1\"}, {\"word\": \".\"}, {\"word\": \"0\"}]}, {\"start\": 1676.631, \"end\": 1700.197, \"text\": \"但是這裡沒有包括核廢料處理還有核除液以後的經費所以您就可以看得到其實我想以核能來說的話確實是一個安全而且也是各國都能夠接受的一個現在的一個綠電還有再請教一下院長您知道天然氣的售價天然氣的售價有所謂的亞洲溢價院長您知道嗎我們天然氣有一個所謂的亞洲溢價您知道\", \"words\": [{\"word\": \"但\", \"start\": 1676.631, \"end\": 1676.771, \"score\": 0.852}, {\"word\": \"是\", \"start\": 1676.771, \"end\": 1677.251, \"score\": 0.888}, {\"word\": \"這\"}, {\"word\": \"裡\"}, {\"word\": \"沒\", \"start\": 1677.251, \"end\": 1677.371, \"score\": 0.833}, {\"word\": \"有\", \"start\": 1677.371, \"end\": 1677.611, \"score\": 0.996}, {\"word\": \"包\", \"start\": 1677.611, \"end\": 1677.851, \"score\": 0.913}, {\"word\": \"括\", \"start\": 1677.851, \"end\": 1678.432, \"score\": 0.909}, {\"word\": \"核\", \"start\": 1678.432, \"end\": 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1706.434, \"text\": \"亞洲的議價\", \"words\": [{\"word\": \"亞\"}, {\"word\": \"洲\", \"start\": 1706.214, \"end\": 1706.414, \"score\": 0.9}, {\"word\": \"的\", \"start\": 1706.414, \"end\": 1706.434, \"score\": 0.0}, {\"word\": \"議\"}, {\"word\": \"價\"}]}, {\"start\": 1727.611, \"end\": 1748.952, \"text\": \"五二戰爭才會造成臺電的虧損金額高達2675億。所以說如果我們不要那麼倚重天然氣的話虧損也不會那麼大。所以我想我們可以看一下天然氣的五年的走勢圖。各位可以看一下這個走勢圖我們就可以看到我國天然氣的這個這個亞洲的價格就是比較高\", \"words\": [{\"word\": \"五\", \"start\": 1727.611, \"end\": 1727.831, \"score\": 0.839}, {\"word\": \"二\", \"start\": 1727.831, \"end\": 1728.212, \"score\": 0.891}, {\"word\": \"戰\"}, {\"word\": \"爭\"}, {\"word\": \"才\", \"start\": 1728.212, \"end\": 1728.552, \"score\": 0.939}, {\"word\": \"會\"}, {\"word\": \"造\", \"start\": 1728.552, \"end\": 1728.812, \"score\": 0.998}, {\"word\": \"成\", \"start\": 1728.812, \"end\": 1729.493, \"score\": 0.927}, {\"word\": \"臺\"}, {\"word\": \"電\"}, {\"word\": \"的\", \"start\": 1729.493, \"end\": 1730.154, \"score\": 0.937}, {\"word\": 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\"謝\"}, {\"word\": \"謝\"}, {\"word\": \"徐\", \"start\": 1816.196, \"end\": 1816.336, \"score\": 0.857}, {\"word\": \"議\"}, {\"word\": \"員\"}, {\"word\": \"與\"}, {\"word\": \"甄\"}, {\"word\": \"的\", \"start\": 1816.336, \"end\": 1816.356, \"score\": 0.992}, {\"word\": \"質\"}, {\"word\": \"詢\"}, {\"word\": \"。\"}], \"language\": \"zh\"}","srt":"1\n00:00:14,827 --> 00:00:16,208\n主席請院長謝謝麻煩再請陳院長備詢徐委員午安恭喜你當選立委謝謝謝謝院長\n\n2\n00:00:30,211 --> 00:00:56,480\n院長您自詡為是溫暖的內閣那這個是我在我競選時候的slogan叫做溫暖堅毅所以說我也期許自己擔任立法委員之後呢要提出一些服國立民的法案讓人民覺得溫暖所以接下來我所要探討幾個議題喔如果能夠得到院長的支持的話相信一定也能夠讓人民覺得溫暖所以院長能不能夠支持我呢\n\n3\n00:00:57,418 --> 00:01:23,043\n好當然我來聽聽看你的這個寶貴的意見也希望我們都能夠是一個讓人民感到溫暖跟堅定的建議。剛剛有關講到剛剛李委員有特別在質詢這個管主委還有提到說請陳院長再說明有關金門的這個翻船案的一個這個撞船的一個事件的執法過程跟釐清的一個目前處理的狀況。\n\n4\n00:01:24,039 --> 00:01:42,513\n我聽到院長講到該道歉的就道歉我覺得這個是讓我覺得非常的欣慰因為其實我們不管有怎麼樣的一個執法的過程只要有錯誤就勇於承認那我想昨天在我們內政委員會就是因為針對這個金門的翻船案沒有影像\n\n5\n00:01:43,291 --> 00:02:10,273\n然後沒有辦法說明真相所以說大家各說各話雖然昨天一度有傳出周梅武署長說真的有影像那已經叫給剪掉了那當然雖然說事後說是雷達影像但是呢我想在這過程中其實我們昨天爭議的點不是在我們對海巡署有意見我們非常支持海巡署的執法我們有意見的是管主委不該善改我們專報的題目\n\n6\n00:02:12,438 --> 00:02:40,000\n我們金門翻船案昨天開這個專報就是為了讓海巡署讓海委會來釐清真相讓他們有個說明的機會結果因為昨天的管主委不肯道歉而有這樣子的一個浪費了前面30分鐘的時間所以我覺得管主委如果能夠像院長一樣該道歉就道歉我相信這個事件就不會發生了我剛才講的就是說我們司法偵查完了我們來按照這樣的方式\n\n7\n00:02:43,621 --> 00:03:06,546\n關主委,這個部分不用您回答,謝謝。我們有拿道歉的版本,符合我國法制的道歉的版本來公布。關主委,麻煩請。請院長,您知道TPAS通勤月票的政策嗎?您知道嗎?\n\n8\n00:03:09,110 --> 00:03:36,944\n您看一下我的這個通行譽票的政策我想請教一下為什麼一開始只有雙北在做這樣子的一個政策我不清楚當時雙北為什麼會做這樣的政策但是在2022年的選舉的時候我們北北基桃的候選人都有提出來TPAS這樣的一個想法就是說由這個四個城市一起來共用這一個\n\n9\n00:03:37,244 --> 00:03:54,074\n我來告訴院長當時是在2018年的時候新北市政府的朱立倫市長跟臺北市政府的柯文哲市長為了鼓勵民眾來多多利用的這個大眾運輸系統所以共同的提出了這個運輸定期票每月1280的這樣的一個政策\n\n10\n00:03:55,919 --> 00:04:14,701\n每年需要補貼9億4千多萬給相關的業者。那陳榮剛剛院長講的在2022年的時候9和1的選舉不管是國民黨、民進黨、民眾黨的候選人都有提出來這個北北基桃的這個聯合的這個提出在1200的這個月票的問題\n\n11\n00:04:15,438 --> 00:04:31,543\n那跨縣市的交通月票的共同政見那所以呢我想每個月每年需要這個經費大概是35億當時行政院就承諾會立即辦理那由中央補助政府來落實交通平權的這樣子的一個概念\n\n12\n00:04:32,096 --> 00:04:45,364\n那2023年7月1日也擴大到全國施行目前有11個區域就可以在這個我的簡報檔上看到11個區域有通勤月票而且由行政院全面的來補貼解決一國兩個制度的問題\n\n13\n00:04:48,584 --> 00:04:49,385\n目前我們的預算是編到114年\n\n14\n00:05:32,137 --> 00:05:56,923\n為了落實交通平權也是一個好的政策所以請院長能夠繼續支持這個計畫的進行接下來要請教這個計畫是還蠻成功的現在有3.65億整次謝謝那我們就好的計畫我們就繼續讓他執行那另外剛剛是講交通平權現在我要請教的院長是您贊不贊成支不支持大陸籍配偶跟外籍配偶年限一樣\n\n15\n00:06:04,381 --> 00:06:20,488\n大陸配偶取得身份證跟其他國家的配偶取得身份證的這個方式確實是目前有不一樣而不一樣的情況下如果按照各項的項目來看的話大陸配偶享受到的這樣的一個\n\n16\n00:06:21,869 --> 00:06:22,089\n目前是6年。\n\n17\n00:06:45,194 --> 00:06:49,937\n請問現在現行是6年就沒有這個問題嗎?為什麼改成4年就會有這個問題呢?感覺像這個就是邏輯不通啊。這個我想陸委會主委比較清楚全部的來龍去脈。基本上我想委員大概都知道啦,這個我們從憲法徵求條文裡面他就特別做的這樣的規定。\n\n18\n00:07:12,403 --> 00:07:12,483\n主席\n\n19\n00:07:27,463 --> 00:07:29,824\n請問院長你有沒有看過2020年6月出版的公民與政治權利國際公約的執行情形?\n\n20\n00:07:54,314 --> 00:08:18,856\n簽約國根據公約的第40條提交的第三次國家的報告請院長看一下在第61頁的第239點大陸配偶來台取得身份證年限調整為外籍配偶一致以凝聚臺灣地區與大陸地區人民關係條例第17條的修正草案上代立法院完成立法程序\n\n21\n00:08:19,564 --> 00:08:36,434\n請問院長,行政院修法的版本在哪裡?行政院沒有修法的版本,這是我們在執行情形的時候請國際學者來評估,然後他也聽了我們國內的專家還有人民的意見以後所提的。\n\n22\n00:08:37,294 --> 00:09:04,849\n這是一個建議。實際上在這個建議的過程當中,他們並不了解我們兩岸條例修正的時候,實際上對於陸配以及他的家屬的這些人權保障。院長,這個報告是我們提供的吧?這個國家報告是我們提供的吧?那如果沒有這個版本的話,這樣寫是不是在欺騙國際社會?沒有沒有,這個是建議啊。沒關係,院長。如果接下來的話這個版本,因為我剛好也有提出了有關\n\n23\n00:09:05,689 --> 00:09:33,785\n兩岸關係的第17條的修正草案所以我可以來幫院長完成這個公報的這個國家報告的這個政策。好,院長現在再請教您現行大陸配偶來臺制度已經超過14年了但大陸配偶取得身份證的年限卻比外籍配偶來得長所以依據我國的移民政策的話其實我們是多元包容尊重人權及合理的保障移入人口的一個權益\n\n24\n00:09:35,290 --> 00:10:02,308\n所以我想基於憲法平等的原則大陸配偶取得身份證的年限4年可以進一步的保障合法的兩岸人、婚姻大陸的配偶來台的權益也可以實現兩公約人權的保障的措施落實我國人口跟移民的政策那所以本席在這邊再請教院長請問院長調降大陸配偶取得身份證的年限會不會增加健保的支出\n\n25\n00:10:03,689 --> 00:10:16,930\n在這個部分我想要看他有一些條件但是剛才你提到的這一些你剛才念的那一段我想要再跟委員做一個報告\n\n26\n00:10:17,529 --> 00:10:19,991\n我跟院長說明其實我們現在外籍配偶\n\n27\n00:10:41,459 --> 00:10:41,999\n那是因為有一些他們不願意來這裡取得。\n\n28\n00:11:03,154 --> 00:11:32,072\n就是其實是不會增加健保的支出為什麼呢因為其實我們目前根據定居的定義第三條你可以看一下臺灣地區人民的直系、血親跟配偶必須年滿70歲而且一年僅有60個名額所以本席所提的兩岸關係條例的第17條如果能夠完成修法的話可申請來臺的這個定居的名額不會增加\n\n29\n00:11:52,062 --> 00:12:00,764\n拜託委員,如果說修法是不是要把60人也修進去?沒有,我的修法沒有改,所以我們不會增加健保的支出。沒有,我說配套措施就把60人也修進去,變成法律。\n\n30\n00:12:14,110 --> 00:12:28,909\n不好意思,請問一下,要不然部長來當立委好了,你來提出說法。我的建議是這個樣子。第二個我跟委員補充,陸配大概有三分之一,我們現在陸配大概將近36萬,但是有12萬人其實是不在台灣的。\n\n31\n00:12:29,790 --> 00:12:55,055\n因為他們就是臺灣臺商的幹部我想我們現在關本席問的是剛剛問的本席問的是指健保會不會增加資助那剛剛有提到的嘛因為來臺定居的人數並不會增加所以根本不會增加健保的資助所以這樣子的一個論調引起人民的恐慌我覺得這樣是很不適當的那當然現在啦\n\n32\n00:12:55,815 --> 00:13:16,556\n現在的這個老人健保的這個我要再請教的是有關老人健保費的補助因為現行老人健保的補助各縣市不一致70歲以上的中低收入老人的健保費是由衛福部全額補助65歲到69歲的中低收入戶的老人健保費則是以各縣市的這個\n\n33\n00:13:17,324 --> 00:13:19,647\n請問院長您看到我們現在這個各縣市健保補助經費的這個表格您有什麼感想?\n\n34\n00:13:31,949 --> 00:13:55,602\n我想健保很重要的一件事情他也需要有永續那在永續的時候他如果有一貫的制度的話是會比較好而且也要注意到這一個世代的正義因為現在每一個人的平均壽命都在延長很多人的壽命都在延長在這樣的一個情況下如果我們就對某一個高齡的人\n\n35\n00:14:04,165 --> 00:14:24,874\n本席提到的是平權就是我在別的縣市是可以享受到這個老人健保但是呢我比如說現在很多縣市包括六都他們都有這個老人健保的補助那我如果住像我之前在雲林縣我在雲林縣卻沒有辦法卻因為財政的關係沒有辦法為什麼同卡不同命\n\n36\n00:14:25,598 --> 00:14:40,445\n為什麼不能全國?您剛說的那個論點跟這件事情我想是沒有關係。我要指的是說既然同樣都是為65歲以上的這個老人,有些縣市他是可以健保費不必給付,有些縣市卻必須要自己給付。\n\n37\n00:14:40,825 --> 00:15:04,335\n那這個部分就違反憲法平權的一個概念。所以今天本席提到的都是平權的一個概念。各位委員報告,這平權包括有兩個意義。現在你看到的是水平的平權,但是我們未來老人家越來越多,年輕人越來越少。所以如果說超過65歲的通通都是免這個健保費的話,\n\n38\n00:15:08,717 --> 00:15:23,690\n市長,我現在要提的我不是叫你這個健保的部分,我本時會提出的是老人福利法的修法。這是世代的平權的問題。所以要求老人的健保能夠全國統一,有中央編列預算。\n\n39\n00:15:24,671 --> 00:15:39,163\n那希望陳院長能夠支持。我是覺得65歲的老人健保有全國變略預算,這樣就是我剛才講的,就是未來的世代平權就會打破了。因為現在的人都被活到85歲。\n\n40\n00:15:45,908 --> 00:15:47,768\n請教院長,您知不知道國軍編列木林經費的目的是什麼?\n\n41\n00:16:16,104 --> 00:16:20,726\n國軍在海上或路上的演習對民眾造成影響或者是損害犧牲的補償嗎?所以\n\n42\n00:16:45,514 --> 00:16:49,037\n請教一下部長,您覺得現行的補償方式公平嗎?\n\n43\n00:16:49,037 --> 00:17:02,686\n有真正補償到受到影響的民眾嗎?我跟委員報告,這個補償方法大概從民國96年開始,當中有很多意見,一開始發到縣,縣的話地方鄉鎮市區就有意見,現在我們這錢是補償到鄉鎮市區。\n\n44\n00:17:05,908 --> 00:17:06,088\n主席\n\n45\n00:17:19,711 --> 00:17:48,119\n您剛提到是補貼到鄉鎮市公所嘛那鄉鎮市公所一定能夠了解影響到影響民眾的需求嘛舉例來說喔國軍對海涉及影響的是漁民最了解漁民的需求到底是誰當然是漁會但是補助的經費卻編給公所所以變成說牧林經費的30%就根據牧林經費的要點規定是要做海岸設施改善或海洋生態保健\n\n46\n00:17:48,749 --> 00:17:49,010\n許宇甄\n\n47\n00:18:03,916 --> 00:18:08,860\n那如果公所因為地方的一個種種因素導致協調的困難,漁民根本享受不到牧林經費的照顧呢?\n\n48\n00:18:30,740 --> 00:18:33,541\n所以剛剛部長提到的因為漁會是人民團體所以不能直接補助那請問農業部有直接補助給漁會嗎?\n\n49\n00:18:55,150 --> 00:19:21,948\n對,看農業部哪一種補助嘛,如果是要該補助給漁會的這個當然可以。對,那既然農業部也可以補助給人民團體,一樣是行政單位,為什麼農業部可以直接補助給漁會?國防部不行。不是,我跟委員報告,他地方縣、鄉長市區政府可以問這些漁會,你問什麼在哪裡比較像,他把它納進來,也一樣擺在這個裡面。如果真的有做到,我今天不會在這邊質詢你這樣的問題。\n\n50\n00:19:25,411 --> 00:19:49,631\n我剛剛講的規定不能改嗎?不符合需求我覺得就應該要修正啊。到底是什麼原因只能供所不能給漁會?因為事實上啊,供所其實都沒有跟漁會協調啦。因為真正了解漁民需求的應該就是漁會他們最了解。所以說我是建議啦,就是說如果啦,如果國防不好你不能直接補助給漁費那是法源的問題。好,OK。\n\n51\n00:19:51,158 --> 00:20:11,926\n國防部可不可以把這相關的經費給農業部讓農業部來補助給漁會呢?這樣是不是最能夠達到這樣的目的呢?我是覺得這樣啦委員如果覺得說在地方的鄉鎮做得不盡完善的時候我們會請他們在跟漁會或者是跟農會或者跟水利會\n\n52\n00:20:12,486 --> 00:20:15,050\n因為剛剛部長提到其實這個木林經費工作要點其實在去年的12月有做了一個\n\n53\n00:20:29,529 --> 00:20:31,110\n新竹縣和新竹市的多個鄉鎮以往每個鄉鎮都可以30%補助\n\n54\n00:20:47,884 --> 00:21:08,717\n他現在只有最高這個經費的百分之三十所以對他們來說這樣的新修訂的要點不但沒有增加他們經費的補助反而還大幅的減少形同減半再減半所以請問院長跟部長喔這種沒經過溝通就刪減經費的做法其實不是很理想是不是能夠重新檢討\n\n55\n00:21:09,741 --> 00:21:33,594\n回復原本的補助方式呢?我們讓部長來回答我跟委員報告一下好不好當初當陸委員提到這些問題當初全部平均在分配就造成問題我的影響大為什麼跟他影響小是一樣所以紛紛找到問題沒有停過我們一定很傷腦筋所以但是目前我跟委員報告我們這個做法公告之前要做的一定是經過大家協調的\n\n56\n00:21:36,155 --> 00:21:50,105\n今天本席會在這邊質詢這個問題就是漁業、漁會、漁業界、漁民的這個一些反彈的聲音。所以是不是能夠請部長在這邊裡面提出一些建議的方式在一個月內回覆本席好嗎?\n\n57\n00:21:50,925 --> 00:22:07,833\n我們未來在協調的時候來看看怎麼樣來加強。然後另外我想請教的就是說因為其實對於我想這個木林政策其實當然就是希望在我們這樣演訓過程中對漁業所造成的傷害或是說沒有讓他們一些這個沒有辦法\n\n58\n00:22:08,833 --> 00:22:37,579\n呃,就是影響生計的一個狀況之下呢,像我以舉例來,以111年臺東的海域為例,三到六月是他們的一個餘訊期。但是當年度的六月有中科院、有海軍、有陸軍等單位共計43天的砲火射擊演習。若再加上天候不佳不能出員,等於整個餘訊期都報銷了。所以在這邊,再想請教部長,如果沒有辦法增加經費的話,至少要恢復原補助的標準。\n\n59\n00:22:37,964 --> 00:23:05,810\n因為這個問題會影響到的產業是的主管機關是農業部我想請教農業部您的部長您的意見是什麼?基本上那個整個的一個漁業的補發的時候他有他的特定的一些漁訓區就像剛才陳如那個委員所說的那在漁訓區我剛提的是說未來如果剛講的說這個補助不能直接給漁會那你們其實很多補助是直接給漁會是不是可以國防部如果\n\n60\n00:23:06,175 --> 00:23:07,215\n接下來要跟這個院長討論的是電價的調漲的問題\n\n61\n00:23:32,621 --> 00:23:49,143\n院長您可以看到一下這個是本席特別將您跟蔡英文總統在2015年選舉時候講過的話整理出來那時候都不管是蔡總統或院長您都提到臺灣電力供應是足夠漲價的機率不會太高\n\n62\n00:23:50,237 --> 00:24:09,694\n蔡總統也說10年內不會大漲。請問院長你可不可以說一下什麼叫做大漲?大漲的定律是什麼?不會大漲又是怎樣?我想天有不測風雲。全世界不管哪一個國家都不會料想到有這個俄烏戰爭。而俄烏戰爭發生以後所有的染料就增加。我想\n\n63\n00:24:10,695 --> 00:24:29,920\n即使是神仙他也可能很難猜到所以不能夠拿這個2015年2016年的情況來講那什麼叫做大漲呢?如果按照俄烏戰爭引起的這一個電費的染料費增加的話各國的大漲都是漲在50%到兩倍以上50%到兩倍以上那我們現在調漲兩次一個8%一個11%今年4月又要再調漲\n\n64\n00:24:40,383 --> 00:24:53,552\n就我的了解現在是跟針對民生用電330度以下都不能總漲幅31%你怎麼算出來的啊?是累進的這個總幅8.4%這累進不是三個相加這個部分之後可以請王美花部長可以請王美花部長再告訴你現在是因為這個是累進稅率的關係可能因為部長您學的不是這個這方面我覺得是統計待會可以請王美花部長跟您說明\n\n65\n00:25:08,883 --> 00:25:36,024\n好基本度數的這個不調漲的原則我想這個部分我們都知道其實主要的問題是什麼就是錯誤的能源政策嗎我們可以看到這次要調漲的是針對民生用電基本度數330度以下的這個也都要調漲了而且是不分級距的全面調漲執政講求的是誠信所以本席希望你們能夠遵守蔡英文總統的承諾\n\n66\n00:25:36,960 --> 00:26:04,835\n基本電數不調漲可以嗎?這個電價能不能調漲我們有一個電價審議委員會要來做全盤的評估這有不同的學者專家社會的公正人士那他們才能夠為這件事情做最後的一個決定其實在美國商會跟歐洲商會都對我國提出示警啦今天蔡政府應該要確保可長久而且有具競爭力的能源\n\n67\n00:26:05,535 --> 00:26:31,911\n而且強調這個對我國的經濟成長可以說是至關重要所以蔡英文政府錯誤的能源政策不但造成工業民生用電的不穩還讓台電虧損連連到去年為止負債已經超過3826億了其實在蔡總統上任之前我們還有一個電價平穩基金還有剩800多億的盈餘所以再加上到目前累積的虧損是3826億\n\n68\n00:26:34,222 --> 00:26:35,463\n這是我們目前從這個表格可以看到我們未來這個電價飆漲的一個危機\n\n69\n00:26:57,850 --> 00:27:03,398\n所以院長我想現在您看到的是有關核能燃煤燃氣跟再生能源\n\n70\n00:27:04,915 --> 00:27:32,714\n沒有人會反對綠能,我們只是想問的是臺電現在預估2024年核能發電只有111億度,2025年非核家園州將歸零,若以2023年核能發電的170億度到2025年歸零,這個電缺口要從哪個能源來補?蔡政府目前是要以天然氣、綠能來替代,那這兩年的能源的發電成本,這兩類的發電成本都偏高,這將使電價越來越高。\n\n71\n00:27:33,394 --> 00:27:55,590\n所以院長您還認同您2015年所說的漲價機率不太高。剛才講過惡霧戰爭造成的染料的這個費用大量增加那如果委員你來看核能跟再生能源的占比核能的占比實際上是很低的。可以看核能現在你看我們其實核能的每度的均價是1.0\n\n72\n00:27:56,631 --> 00:28:20,197\n但是這裡沒有包括核廢料處理還有核除液以後的經費所以您就可以看得到其實我想以核能來說的話確實是一個安全而且也是各國都能夠接受的一個現在的一個綠電還有再請教一下院長您知道天然氣的售價天然氣的售價有所謂的亞洲溢價院長您知道嗎我們天然氣有一個所謂的亞洲溢價您知道\n\n73\n00:28:26,214 --> 00:28:26,434\n亞洲的議價\n\n74\n00:28:47,611 --> 00:29:08,952\n五二戰爭才會造成臺電的虧損金額高達2675億。所以說如果我們不要那麼倚重天然氣的話虧損也不會那麼大。所以我想我們可以看一下天然氣的五年的走勢圖。各位可以看一下這個走勢圖我們就可以看到我國天然氣的這個這個亞洲的價格就是比較高\n\n75\n00:29:09,892 --> 00:29:20,158\n而我國天然氣的占比高達50%本期要提醒院長未來天然氣採購價格何可能會再出現所謂的臺灣議論請問一下院長您同不同意要檢討我們現行的能源政策\n\n76\n00:29:27,588 --> 00:29:46,055\n我想我們的能源政策經過檢討以後我們就是用剛才的這樣的配比來努力我們發展綠能我們現在要展示但是核能的部分我要跟委員講你講核能的部分實際上核能到目前為止多大的廚藝階段到達業力階段希望你們能夠檢討錯誤的能源政策那本期在這邊具體的呢要請院長\n\n77\n00:29:55,959 --> 00:30:07,470\n是不是能夠針對電價的部分有兩項我們是不是能夠不要這個調漲第一個就是農業漁業還有一些工藝團體還有學生的這個社會機構的本次的調漲能夠比照2022年的做法讓電價不調漲\n\n78\n00:30:15,816 --> 00:30:16,356\n報告院會,現在謝謝徐議員與甄的質詢。\n\n","tsv":"start\tend\ttext\n14827\t16208\t主席請院長謝謝麻煩再請陳院長備詢徐委員午安恭喜你當選立委謝謝謝謝院長\n30211\t56480\t院長您自詡為是溫暖的內閣那這個是我在我競選時候的slogan叫做溫暖堅毅所以說我也期許自己擔任立法委員之後呢要提出一些服國立民的法案讓人民覺得溫暖所以接下來我所要探討幾個議題喔如果能夠得到院長的支持的話相信一定也能夠讓人民覺得溫暖所以院長能不能夠支持我呢\n57418\t83043\t好當然我來聽聽看你的這個寶貴的意見也希望我們都能夠是一個讓人民感到溫暖跟堅定的建議。剛剛有關講到剛剛李委員有特別在質詢這個管主委還有提到說請陳院長再說明有關金門的這個翻船案的一個這個撞船的一個事件的執法過程跟釐清的一個目前處理的狀況。\n84039\t102513\t我聽到院長講到該道歉的就道歉我覺得這個是讓我覺得非常的欣慰因為其實我們不管有怎麼樣的一個執法的過程只要有錯誤就勇於承認那我想昨天在我們內政委員會就是因為針對這個金門的翻船案沒有影像\n103291\t130273\t然後沒有辦法說明真相所以說大家各說各話雖然昨天一度有傳出周梅武署長說真的有影像那已經叫給剪掉了那當然雖然說事後說是雷達影像但是呢我想在這過程中其實我們昨天爭議的點不是在我們對海巡署有意見我們非常支持海巡署的執法我們有意見的是管主委不該善改我們專報的題目\n132438\t160000\t我們金門翻船案昨天開這個專報就是為了讓海巡署讓海委會來釐清真相讓他們有個說明的機會結果因為昨天的管主委不肯道歉而有這樣子的一個浪費了前面30分鐘的時間所以我覺得管主委如果能夠像院長一樣該道歉就道歉我相信這個事件就不會發生了我剛才講的就是說我們司法偵查完了我們來按照這樣的方式\n163621\t186546\t關主委,這個部分不用您回答,謝謝。我們有拿道歉的版本,符合我國法制的道歉的版本來公布。關主委,麻煩請。請院長,您知道TPAS通勤月票的政策嗎?您知道嗎?\n189110\t216944\t您看一下我的這個通行譽票的政策我想請教一下為什麼一開始只有雙北在做這樣子的一個政策我不清楚當時雙北為什麼會做這樣的政策但是在2022年的選舉的時候我們北北基桃的候選人都有提出來TPAS這樣的一個想法就是說由這個四個城市一起來共用這一個\n217244\t234074\t我來告訴院長當時是在2018年的時候新北市政府的朱立倫市長跟臺北市政府的柯文哲市長為了鼓勵民眾來多多利用的這個大眾運輸系統所以共同的提出了這個運輸定期票每月1280的這樣的一個政策\n235919\t254701\t每年需要補貼9億4千多萬給相關的業者。那陳榮剛剛院長講的在2022年的時候9和1的選舉不管是國民黨、民進黨、民眾黨的候選人都有提出來這個北北基桃的這個聯合的這個提出在1200的這個月票的問題\n255438\t271543\t那跨縣市的交通月票的共同政見那所以呢我想每個月每年需要這個經費大概是35億當時行政院就承諾會立即辦理那由中央補助政府來落實交通平權的這樣子的一個概念\n272096\t285364\t那2023年7月1日也擴大到全國施行目前有11個區域就可以在這個我的簡報檔上看到11個區域有通勤月票而且由行政院全面的來補貼解決一國兩個制度的問題\n288584\t289385\t目前我們的預算是編到114年\n304241\t331817\t議員﹚\n332137\t356923\t為了落實交通平權也是一個好的政策所以請院長能夠繼續支持這個計畫的進行接下來要請教這個計畫是還蠻成功的現在有3.65億整次謝謝那我們就好的計畫我們就繼續讓他執行那另外剛剛是講交通平權現在我要請教的院長是您贊不贊成支不支持大陸籍配偶跟外籍配偶年限一樣\n364381\t380488\t大陸配偶取得身份證跟其他國家的配偶取得身份證的這個方式確實是目前有不一樣而不一樣的情況下如果按照各項的項目來看的話大陸配偶享受到的這樣的一個\n381869\t382089\t目前是6年。\n405194\t409937\t請問現在現行是6年就沒有這個問題嗎?為什麼改成4年就會有這個問題呢?感覺像這個就是邏輯不通啊。這個我想陸委會主委比較清楚全部的來龍去脈。基本上我想委員大概都知道啦,這個我們從憲法徵求條文裡面他就特別做的這樣的規定。\n432403\t432483\t主席\n447463\t449824\t請問院長你有沒有看過2020年6月出版的公民與政治權利國際公約的執行情形?\n474314\t498856\t簽約國根據公約的第40條提交的第三次國家的報告請院長看一下在第61頁的第239點大陸配偶來台取得身份證年限調整為外籍配偶一致以凝聚臺灣地區與大陸地區人民關係條例第17條的修正草案上代立法院完成立法程序\n499564\t516434\t請問院長,行政院修法的版本在哪裡?行政院沒有修法的版本,這是我們在執行情形的時候請國際學者來評估,然後他也聽了我們國內的專家還有人民的意見以後所提的。\n517294\t544849\t這是一個建議。實際上在這個建議的過程當中,他們並不了解我們兩岸條例修正的時候,實際上對於陸配以及他的家屬的這些人權保障。院長,這個報告是我們提供的吧?這個國家報告是我們提供的吧?那如果沒有這個版本的話,這樣寫是不是在欺騙國際社會?沒有沒有,這個是建議啊。沒關係,院長。如果接下來的話這個版本,因為我剛好也有提出了有關\n545689\t573785\t兩岸關係的第17條的修正草案所以我可以來幫院長完成這個公報的這個國家報告的這個政策。好,院長現在再請教您現行大陸配偶來臺制度已經超過14年了但大陸配偶取得身份證的年限卻比外籍配偶來得長所以依據我國的移民政策的話其實我們是多元包容尊重人權及合理的保障移入人口的一個權益\n575290\t602308\t所以我想基於憲法平等的原則大陸配偶取得身份證的年限4年可以進一步的保障合法的兩岸人、婚姻大陸的配偶來台的權益也可以實現兩公約人權的保障的措施落實我國人口跟移民的政策那所以本席在這邊再請教院長請問院長調降大陸配偶取得身份證的年限會不會增加健保的支出\n603689\t616930\t在這個部分我想要看他有一些條件但是剛才你提到的這一些你剛才念的那一段我想要再跟委員做一個報告\n617529\t619991\t我跟院長說明其實我們現在外籍配偶\n641459\t641999\t那是因為有一些他們不願意來這裡取得。\n663154\t692072\t就是其實是不會增加健保的支出為什麼呢因為其實我們目前根據定居的定義第三條你可以看一下臺灣地區人民的直系、血親跟配偶必須年滿70歲而且一年僅有60個名額所以本席所提的兩岸關係條例的第17條如果能夠完成修法的話可申請來臺的這個定居的名額不會增加\n692568\t711698\t﹗\n712062\t720764\t拜託委員,如果說修法是不是要把60人也修進去?沒有,我的修法沒有改,所以我們不會增加健保的支出。沒有,我說配套措施就把60人也修進去,變成法律。\n734110\t748909\t不好意思,請問一下,要不然部長來當立委好了,你來提出說法。我的建議是這個樣子。第二個我跟委員補充,陸配大概有三分之一,我們現在陸配大概將近36萬,但是有12萬人其實是不在台灣的。\n749790\t775055\t因為他們就是臺灣臺商的幹部我想我們現在關本席問的是剛剛問的本席問的是指健保會不會增加資助那剛剛有提到的嘛因為來臺定居的人數並不會增加所以根本不會增加健保的資助所以這樣子的一個論調引起人民的恐慌我覺得這樣是很不適當的那當然現在啦\n775815\t796556\t現在的這個老人健保的這個我要再請教的是有關老人健保費的補助因為現行老人健保的補助各縣市不一致70歲以上的中低收入老人的健保費是由衛福部全額補助65歲到69歲的中低收入戶的老人健保費則是以各縣市的這個\n797324\t799647\t請問院長您看到我們現在這個各縣市健保補助經費的這個表格您有什麼感想?\n811949\t835602\t我想健保很重要的一件事情他也需要有永續那在永續的時候他如果有一貫的制度的話是會比較好而且也要注意到這一個世代的正義因為現在每一個人的平均壽命都在延長很多人的壽命都在延長在這樣的一個情況下如果我們就對某一個高齡的人\n844165\t864874\t本席提到的是平權就是我在別的縣市是可以享受到這個老人健保但是呢我比如說現在很多縣市包括六都他們都有這個老人健保的補助那我如果住像我之前在雲林縣我在雲林縣卻沒有辦法卻因為財政的關係沒有辦法為什麼同卡不同命\n865598\t880445\t為什麼不能全國?您剛說的那個論點跟這件事情我想是沒有關係。我要指的是說既然同樣都是為65歲以上的這個老人,有些縣市他是可以健保費不必給付,有些縣市卻必須要自己給付。\n880825\t904335\t那這個部分就違反憲法平權的一個概念。所以今天本席提到的都是平權的一個概念。各位委員報告,這平權包括有兩個意義。現在你看到的是水平的平權,但是我們未來老人家越來越多,年輕人越來越少。所以如果說超過65歲的通通都是免這個健保費的話,\n908717\t923690\t市長,我現在要提的我不是叫你這個健保的部分,我本時會提出的是老人福利法的修法。這是世代的平權的問題。所以要求老人的健保能夠全國統一,有中央編列預算。\n924671\t939163\t那希望陳院長能夠支持。我是覺得65歲的老人健保有全國變略預算,這樣就是我剛才講的,就是未來的世代平權就會打破了。因為現在的人都被活到85歲。\n945908\t947768\t請教院長,您知不知道國軍編列木林經費的目的是什麼?\n976104\t980726\t國軍在海上或路上的演習對民眾造成影響或者是損害犧牲的補償嗎?所以\n1005514\t1009037\t請教一下部長,您覺得現行的補償方式公平嗎?\n1009037\t1022686\t有真正補償到受到影響的民眾嗎?我跟委員報告,這個補償方法大概從民國96年開始,當中有很多意見,一開始發到縣,縣的話地方鄉鎮市區就有意見,現在我們這錢是補償到鄉鎮市區。\n1025908\t1026088\t主席\n1039711\t1068119\t您剛提到是補貼到鄉鎮市公所嘛那鄉鎮市公所一定能夠了解影響到影響民眾的需求嘛舉例來說喔國軍對海涉及影響的是漁民最了解漁民的需求到底是誰當然是漁會但是補助的經費卻編給公所所以變成說牧林經費的30%就根據牧林經費的要點規定是要做海岸設施改善或海洋生態保健\n1068749\t1069010\t許宇甄\n1083916\t1088860\t那如果公所因為地方的一個種種因素導致協調的困難,漁民根本享受不到牧林經費的照顧呢?\n1110740\t1113541\t所以剛剛部長提到的因為漁會是人民團體所以不能直接補助那請問農業部有直接補助給漁會嗎?\n1135150\t1161948\t對,看農業部哪一種補助嘛,如果是要該補助給漁會的這個當然可以。對,那既然農業部也可以補助給人民團體,一樣是行政單位,為什麼農業部可以直接補助給漁會?國防部不行。不是,我跟委員報告,他地方縣、鄉長市區政府可以問這些漁會,你問什麼在哪裡比較像,他把它納進來,也一樣擺在這個裡面。如果真的有做到,我今天不會在這邊質詢你這樣的問題。\n1165411\t1189631\t我剛剛講的規定不能改嗎?不符合需求我覺得就應該要修正啊。到底是什麼原因只能供所不能給漁會?因為事實上啊,供所其實都沒有跟漁會協調啦。因為真正了解漁民需求的應該就是漁會他們最了解。所以說我是建議啦,就是說如果啦,如果國防不好你不能直接補助給漁費那是法源的問題。好,OK。\n1191158\t1211926\t國防部可不可以把這相關的經費給農業部讓農業部來補助給漁會呢?這樣是不是最能夠達到這樣的目的呢?我是覺得這樣啦委員如果覺得說在地方的鄉鎮做得不盡完善的時候我們會請他們在跟漁會或者是跟農會或者跟水利會\n1212486\t1215050\t因為剛剛部長提到其實這個木林經費工作要點其實在去年的12月有做了一個\n1229529\t1231110\t新竹縣和新竹市的多個鄉鎮以往每個鄉鎮都可以30%補助\n1247884\t1268717\t他現在只有最高這個經費的百分之三十所以對他們來說這樣的新修訂的要點不但沒有增加他們經費的補助反而還大幅的減少形同減半再減半所以請問院長跟部長喔這種沒經過溝通就刪減經費的做法其實不是很理想是不是能夠重新檢討\n1269741\t1293594\t回復原本的補助方式呢?我們讓部長來回答我跟委員報告一下好不好當初當陸委員提到這些問題當初全部平均在分配就造成問題我的影響大為什麼跟他影響小是一樣所以紛紛找到問題沒有停過我們一定很傷腦筋所以但是目前我跟委員報告我們這個做法公告之前要做的一定是經過大家協調的\n1296155\t1310105\t今天本席會在這邊質詢這個問題就是漁業、漁會、漁業界、漁民的這個一些反彈的聲音。所以是不是能夠請部長在這邊裡面提出一些建議的方式在一個月內回覆本席好嗎?\n1310925\t1327833\t我們未來在協調的時候來看看怎麼樣來加強。然後另外我想請教的就是說因為其實對於我想這個木林政策其實當然就是希望在我們這樣演訓過程中對漁業所造成的傷害或是說沒有讓他們一些這個沒有辦法\n1328833\t1357579\t呃,就是影響生計的一個狀況之下呢,像我以舉例來,以111年臺東的海域為例,三到六月是他們的一個餘訊期。但是當年度的六月有中科院、有海軍、有陸軍等單位共計43天的砲火射擊演習。若再加上天候不佳不能出員,等於整個餘訊期都報銷了。所以在這邊,再想請教部長,如果沒有辦法增加經費的話,至少要恢復原補助的標準。\n1357964\t1385810\t因為這個問題會影響到的產業是的主管機關是農業部我想請教農業部您的部長您的意見是什麼?基本上那個整個的一個漁業的補發的時候他有他的特定的一些漁訓區就像剛才陳如那個委員所說的那在漁訓區我剛提的是說未來如果剛講的說這個補助不能直接給漁會那你們其實很多補助是直接給漁會是不是可以國防部如果\n1386175\t1387215\t接下來要跟這個院長討論的是電價的調漲的問題\n1412621\t1429143\t院長您可以看到一下這個是本席特別將您跟蔡英文總統在2015年選舉時候講過的話整理出來那時候都不管是蔡總統或院長您都提到臺灣電力供應是足夠漲價的機率不會太高\n1430237\t1449694\t蔡總統也說10年內不會大漲。請問院長你可不可以說一下什麼叫做大漲?大漲的定律是什麼?不會大漲又是怎樣?我想天有不測風雲。全世界不管哪一個國家都不會料想到有這個俄烏戰爭。而俄烏戰爭發生以後所有的染料就增加。我想\n1450695\t1469920\t即使是神仙他也可能很難猜到所以不能夠拿這個2015年2016年的情況來講那什麼叫做大漲呢?如果按照俄烏戰爭引起的這一個電費的染料費增加的話各國的大漲都是漲在50%到兩倍以上50%到兩倍以上那我們現在調漲兩次一個8%一個11%今年4月又要再調漲\n1480383\t1493552\t就我的了解現在是跟針對民生用電330度以下都不能總漲幅31%你怎麼算出來的啊?是累進的這個總幅8.4%這累進不是三個相加這個部分之後可以請王美花部長可以請王美花部長再告訴你現在是因為這個是累進稅率的關係可能因為部長您學的不是這個這方面我覺得是統計待會可以請王美花部長跟您說明\n1508883\t1536024\t好基本度數的這個不調漲的原則我想這個部分我們都知道其實主要的問題是什麼就是錯誤的能源政策嗎我們可以看到這次要調漲的是針對民生用電基本度數330度以下的這個也都要調漲了而且是不分級距的全面調漲執政講求的是誠信所以本席希望你們能夠遵守蔡英文總統的承諾\n1536960\t1564835\t基本電數不調漲可以嗎?這個電價能不能調漲我們有一個電價審議委員會要來做全盤的評估這有不同的學者專家社會的公正人士那他們才能夠為這件事情做最後的一個決定其實在美國商會跟歐洲商會都對我國提出示警啦今天蔡政府應該要確保可長久而且有具競爭力的能源\n1565535\t1591911\t而且強調這個對我國的經濟成長可以說是至關重要所以蔡英文政府錯誤的能源政策不但造成工業民生用電的不穩還讓台電虧損連連到去年為止負債已經超過3826億了其實在蔡總統上任之前我們還有一個電價平穩基金還有剩800多億的盈餘所以再加上到目前累積的虧損是3826億\n1594222\t1595463\t這是我們目前從這個表格可以看到我們未來這個電價飆漲的一個危機\n1617850\t1623398\t所以院長我想現在您看到的是有關核能燃煤燃氣跟再生能源\n1624915\t1652714\t沒有人會反對綠能,我們只是想問的是臺電現在預估2024年核能發電只有111億度,2025年非核家園州將歸零,若以2023年核能發電的170億度到2025年歸零,這個電缺口要從哪個能源來補?蔡政府目前是要以天然氣、綠能來替代,那這兩年的能源的發電成本,這兩類的發電成本都偏高,這將使電價越來越高。\n1653394\t1675590\t所以院長您還認同您2015年所說的漲價機率不太高。剛才講過惡霧戰爭造成的染料的這個費用大量增加那如果委員你來看核能跟再生能源的占比核能的占比實際上是很低的。可以看核能現在你看我們其實核能的每度的均價是1.0\n1676631\t1700197\t但是這裡沒有包括核廢料處理還有核除液以後的經費所以您就可以看得到其實我想以核能來說的話確實是一個安全而且也是各國都能夠接受的一個現在的一個綠電還有再請教一下院長您知道天然氣的售價天然氣的售價有所謂的亞洲溢價院長您知道嗎我們天然氣有一個所謂的亞洲溢價您知道\n1706214\t1706434\t亞洲的議價\n1727611\t1748952\t五二戰爭才會造成臺電的虧損金額高達2675億。所以說如果我們不要那麼倚重天然氣的話虧損也不會那麼大。所以我想我們可以看一下天然氣的五年的走勢圖。各位可以看一下這個走勢圖我們就可以看到我國天然氣的這個這個亞洲的價格就是比較高\n1749892\t1760158\t而我國天然氣的占比高達50%本期要提醒院長未來天然氣採購價格何可能會再出現所謂的臺灣議論請問一下院長您同不同意要檢討我們現行的能源政策\n1767588\t1786055\t我想我們的能源政策經過檢討以後我們就是用剛才的這樣的配比來努力我們發展綠能我們現在要展示但是核能的部分我要跟委員講你講核能的部分實際上核能到目前為止多大的廚藝階段到達業力階段希望你們能夠檢討錯誤的能源政策那本期在這邊具體的呢要請院長\n1795959\t1807470\t是不是能夠針對電價的部分有兩項我們是不是能夠不要這個調漲第一個就是農業漁業還有一些工藝團體還有學生的這個社會機構的本次的調漲能夠比照2022年的做法讓電價不調漲\n1815816\t1816356\t報告院會,現在謝謝徐議員與甄的質詢。\n","txt":"主席請院長謝謝麻煩再請陳院長備詢徐委員午安恭喜你當選立委謝謝謝謝院長\n院長您自詡為是溫暖的內閣那這個是我在我競選時候的slogan叫做溫暖堅毅所以說我也期許自己擔任立法委員之後呢要提出一些服國立民的法案讓人民覺得溫暖所以接下來我所要探討幾個議題喔如果能夠得到院長的支持的話相信一定也能夠讓人民覺得溫暖所以院長能不能夠支持我呢\n好當然我來聽聽看你的這個寶貴的意見也希望我們都能夠是一個讓人民感到溫暖跟堅定的建議。剛剛有關講到剛剛李委員有特別在質詢這個管主委還有提到說請陳院長再說明有關金門的這個翻船案的一個這個撞船的一個事件的執法過程跟釐清的一個目前處理的狀況。\n我聽到院長講到該道歉的就道歉我覺得這個是讓我覺得非常的欣慰因為其實我們不管有怎麼樣的一個執法的過程只要有錯誤就勇於承認那我想昨天在我們內政委員會就是因為針對這個金門的翻船案沒有影像\n然後沒有辦法說明真相所以說大家各說各話雖然昨天一度有傳出周梅武署長說真的有影像那已經叫給剪掉了那當然雖然說事後說是雷達影像但是呢我想在這過程中其實我們昨天爭議的點不是在我們對海巡署有意見我們非常支持海巡署的執法我們有意見的是管主委不該善改我們專報的題目\n我們金門翻船案昨天開這個專報就是為了讓海巡署讓海委會來釐清真相讓他們有個說明的機會結果因為昨天的管主委不肯道歉而有這樣子的一個浪費了前面30分鐘的時間所以我覺得管主委如果能夠像院長一樣該道歉就道歉我相信這個事件就不會發生了我剛才講的就是說我們司法偵查完了我們來按照這樣的方式\n關主委,這個部分不用您回答,謝謝。我們有拿道歉的版本,符合我國法制的道歉的版本來公布。關主委,麻煩請。請院長,您知道TPAS通勤月票的政策嗎?您知道嗎?\n您看一下我的這個通行譽票的政策我想請教一下為什麼一開始只有雙北在做這樣子的一個政策我不清楚當時雙北為什麼會做這樣的政策但是在2022年的選舉的時候我們北北基桃的候選人都有提出來TPAS這樣的一個想法就是說由這個四個城市一起來共用這一個\n我來告訴院長當時是在2018年的時候新北市政府的朱立倫市長跟臺北市政府的柯文哲市長為了鼓勵民眾來多多利用的這個大眾運輸系統所以共同的提出了這個運輸定期票每月1280的這樣的一個政策\n每年需要補貼9億4千多萬給相關的業者。那陳榮剛剛院長講的在2022年的時候9和1的選舉不管是國民黨、民進黨、民眾黨的候選人都有提出來這個北北基桃的這個聯合的這個提出在1200的這個月票的問題\n那跨縣市的交通月票的共同政見那所以呢我想每個月每年需要這個經費大概是35億當時行政院就承諾會立即辦理那由中央補助政府來落實交通平權的這樣子的一個概念\n那2023年7月1日也擴大到全國施行目前有11個區域就可以在這個我的簡報檔上看到11個區域有通勤月票而且由行政院全面的來補貼解決一國兩個制度的問題\n目前我們的預算是編到114年\n議員﹚\n為了落實交通平權也是一個好的政策所以請院長能夠繼續支持這個計畫的進行接下來要請教這個計畫是還蠻成功的現在有3.65億整次謝謝那我們就好的計畫我們就繼續讓他執行那另外剛剛是講交通平權現在我要請教的院長是您贊不贊成支不支持大陸籍配偶跟外籍配偶年限一樣\n大陸配偶取得身份證跟其他國家的配偶取得身份證的這個方式確實是目前有不一樣而不一樣的情況下如果按照各項的項目來看的話大陸配偶享受到的這樣的一個\n目前是6年。\n請問現在現行是6年就沒有這個問題嗎?為什麼改成4年就會有這個問題呢?感覺像這個就是邏輯不通啊。這個我想陸委會主委比較清楚全部的來龍去脈。基本上我想委員大概都知道啦,這個我們從憲法徵求條文裡面他就特別做的這樣的規定。\n主席\n請問院長你有沒有看過2020年6月出版的公民與政治權利國際公約的執行情形?\n簽約國根據公約的第40條提交的第三次國家的報告請院長看一下在第61頁的第239點大陸配偶來台取得身份證年限調整為外籍配偶一致以凝聚臺灣地區與大陸地區人民關係條例第17條的修正草案上代立法院完成立法程序\n請問院長,行政院修法的版本在哪裡?行政院沒有修法的版本,這是我們在執行情形的時候請國際學者來評估,然後他也聽了我們國內的專家還有人民的意見以後所提的。\n這是一個建議。實際上在這個建議的過程當中,他們並不了解我們兩岸條例修正的時候,實際上對於陸配以及他的家屬的這些人權保障。院長,這個報告是我們提供的吧?這個國家報告是我們提供的吧?那如果沒有這個版本的話,這樣寫是不是在欺騙國際社會?沒有沒有,這個是建議啊。沒關係,院長。如果接下來的話這個版本,因為我剛好也有提出了有關\n兩岸關係的第17條的修正草案所以我可以來幫院長完成這個公報的這個國家報告的這個政策。好,院長現在再請教您現行大陸配偶來臺制度已經超過14年了但大陸配偶取得身份證的年限卻比外籍配偶來得長所以依據我國的移民政策的話其實我們是多元包容尊重人權及合理的保障移入人口的一個權益\n所以我想基於憲法平等的原則大陸配偶取得身份證的年限4年可以進一步的保障合法的兩岸人、婚姻大陸的配偶來台的權益也可以實現兩公約人權的保障的措施落實我國人口跟移民的政策那所以本席在這邊再請教院長請問院長調降大陸配偶取得身份證的年限會不會增加健保的支出\n在這個部分我想要看他有一些條件但是剛才你提到的這一些你剛才念的那一段我想要再跟委員做一個報告\n我跟院長說明其實我們現在外籍配偶\n那是因為有一些他們不願意來這裡取得。\n就是其實是不會增加健保的支出為什麼呢因為其實我們目前根據定居的定義第三條你可以看一下臺灣地區人民的直系、血親跟配偶必須年滿70歲而且一年僅有60個名額所以本席所提的兩岸關係條例的第17條如果能夠完成修法的話可申請來臺的這個定居的名額不會增加\n﹗\n拜託委員,如果說修法是不是要把60人也修進去?沒有,我的修法沒有改,所以我們不會增加健保的支出。沒有,我說配套措施就把60人也修進去,變成法律。\n不好意思,請問一下,要不然部長來當立委好了,你來提出說法。我的建議是這個樣子。第二個我跟委員補充,陸配大概有三分之一,我們現在陸配大概將近36萬,但是有12萬人其實是不在台灣的。\n因為他們就是臺灣臺商的幹部我想我們現在關本席問的是剛剛問的本席問的是指健保會不會增加資助那剛剛有提到的嘛因為來臺定居的人數並不會增加所以根本不會增加健保的資助所以這樣子的一個論調引起人民的恐慌我覺得這樣是很不適當的那當然現在啦\n現在的這個老人健保的這個我要再請教的是有關老人健保費的補助因為現行老人健保的補助各縣市不一致70歲以上的中低收入老人的健保費是由衛福部全額補助65歲到69歲的中低收入戶的老人健保費則是以各縣市的這個\n請問院長您看到我們現在這個各縣市健保補助經費的這個表格您有什麼感想?\n我想健保很重要的一件事情他也需要有永續那在永續的時候他如果有一貫的制度的話是會比較好而且也要注意到這一個世代的正義因為現在每一個人的平均壽命都在延長很多人的壽命都在延長在這樣的一個情況下如果我們就對某一個高齡的人\n本席提到的是平權就是我在別的縣市是可以享受到這個老人健保但是呢我比如說現在很多縣市包括六都他們都有這個老人健保的補助那我如果住像我之前在雲林縣我在雲林縣卻沒有辦法卻因為財政的關係沒有辦法為什麼同卡不同命\n為什麼不能全國?您剛說的那個論點跟這件事情我想是沒有關係。我要指的是說既然同樣都是為65歲以上的這個老人,有些縣市他是可以健保費不必給付,有些縣市卻必須要自己給付。\n那這個部分就違反憲法平權的一個概念。所以今天本席提到的都是平權的一個概念。各位委員報告,這平權包括有兩個意義。現在你看到的是水平的平權,但是我們未來老人家越來越多,年輕人越來越少。所以如果說超過65歲的通通都是免這個健保費的話,\n市長,我現在要提的我不是叫你這個健保的部分,我本時會提出的是老人福利法的修法。這是世代的平權的問題。所以要求老人的健保能夠全國統一,有中央編列預算。\n那希望陳院長能夠支持。我是覺得65歲的老人健保有全國變略預算,這樣就是我剛才講的,就是未來的世代平權就會打破了。因為現在的人都被活到85歲。\n請教院長,您知不知道國軍編列木林經費的目的是什麼?\n國軍在海上或路上的演習對民眾造成影響或者是損害犧牲的補償嗎?所以\n請教一下部長,您覺得現行的補償方式公平嗎?\n有真正補償到受到影響的民眾嗎?我跟委員報告,這個補償方法大概從民國96年開始,當中有很多意見,一開始發到縣,縣的話地方鄉鎮市區就有意見,現在我們這錢是補償到鄉鎮市區。\n主席\n您剛提到是補貼到鄉鎮市公所嘛那鄉鎮市公所一定能夠了解影響到影響民眾的需求嘛舉例來說喔國軍對海涉及影響的是漁民最了解漁民的需求到底是誰當然是漁會但是補助的經費卻編給公所所以變成說牧林經費的30%就根據牧林經費的要點規定是要做海岸設施改善或海洋生態保健\n許宇甄\n那如果公所因為地方的一個種種因素導致協調的困難,漁民根本享受不到牧林經費的照顧呢?\n所以剛剛部長提到的因為漁會是人民團體所以不能直接補助那請問農業部有直接補助給漁會嗎?\n對,看農業部哪一種補助嘛,如果是要該補助給漁會的這個當然可以。對,那既然農業部也可以補助給人民團體,一樣是行政單位,為什麼農業部可以直接補助給漁會?國防部不行。不是,我跟委員報告,他地方縣、鄉長市區政府可以問這些漁會,你問什麼在哪裡比較像,他把它納進來,也一樣擺在這個裡面。如果真的有做到,我今天不會在這邊質詢你這樣的問題。\n我剛剛講的規定不能改嗎?不符合需求我覺得就應該要修正啊。到底是什麼原因只能供所不能給漁會?因為事實上啊,供所其實都沒有跟漁會協調啦。因為真正了解漁民需求的應該就是漁會他們最了解。所以說我是建議啦,就是說如果啦,如果國防不好你不能直接補助給漁費那是法源的問題。好,OK。\n國防部可不可以把這相關的經費給農業部讓農業部來補助給漁會呢?這樣是不是最能夠達到這樣的目的呢?我是覺得這樣啦委員如果覺得說在地方的鄉鎮做得不盡完善的時候我們會請他們在跟漁會或者是跟農會或者跟水利會\n因為剛剛部長提到其實這個木林經費工作要點其實在去年的12月有做了一個\n新竹縣和新竹市的多個鄉鎮以往每個鄉鎮都可以30%補助\n他現在只有最高這個經費的百分之三十所以對他們來說這樣的新修訂的要點不但沒有增加他們經費的補助反而還大幅的減少形同減半再減半所以請問院長跟部長喔這種沒經過溝通就刪減經費的做法其實不是很理想是不是能夠重新檢討\n回復原本的補助方式呢?我們讓部長來回答我跟委員報告一下好不好當初當陸委員提到這些問題當初全部平均在分配就造成問題我的影響大為什麼跟他影響小是一樣所以紛紛找到問題沒有停過我們一定很傷腦筋所以但是目前我跟委員報告我們這個做法公告之前要做的一定是經過大家協調的\n今天本席會在這邊質詢這個問題就是漁業、漁會、漁業界、漁民的這個一些反彈的聲音。所以是不是能夠請部長在這邊裡面提出一些建議的方式在一個月內回覆本席好嗎?\n我們未來在協調的時候來看看怎麼樣來加強。然後另外我想請教的就是說因為其實對於我想這個木林政策其實當然就是希望在我們這樣演訓過程中對漁業所造成的傷害或是說沒有讓他們一些這個沒有辦法\n呃,就是影響生計的一個狀況之下呢,像我以舉例來,以111年臺東的海域為例,三到六月是他們的一個餘訊期。但是當年度的六月有中科院、有海軍、有陸軍等單位共計43天的砲火射擊演習。若再加上天候不佳不能出員,等於整個餘訊期都報銷了。所以在這邊,再想請教部長,如果沒有辦法增加經費的話,至少要恢復原補助的標準。\n因為這個問題會影響到的產業是的主管機關是農業部我想請教農業部您的部長您的意見是什麼?基本上那個整個的一個漁業的補發的時候他有他的特定的一些漁訓區就像剛才陳如那個委員所說的那在漁訓區我剛提的是說未來如果剛講的說這個補助不能直接給漁會那你們其實很多補助是直接給漁會是不是可以國防部如果\n接下來要跟這個院長討論的是電價的調漲的問題\n院長您可以看到一下這個是本席特別將您跟蔡英文總統在2015年選舉時候講過的話整理出來那時候都不管是蔡總統或院長您都提到臺灣電力供應是足夠漲價的機率不會太高\n蔡總統也說10年內不會大漲。請問院長你可不可以說一下什麼叫做大漲?大漲的定律是什麼?不會大漲又是怎樣?我想天有不測風雲。全世界不管哪一個國家都不會料想到有這個俄烏戰爭。而俄烏戰爭發生以後所有的染料就增加。我想\n即使是神仙他也可能很難猜到所以不能夠拿這個2015年2016年的情況來講那什麼叫做大漲呢?如果按照俄烏戰爭引起的這一個電費的染料費增加的話各國的大漲都是漲在50%到兩倍以上50%到兩倍以上那我們現在調漲兩次一個8%一個11%今年4月又要再調漲\n就我的了解現在是跟針對民生用電330度以下都不能總漲幅31%你怎麼算出來的啊?是累進的這個總幅8.4%這累進不是三個相加這個部分之後可以請王美花部長可以請王美花部長再告訴你現在是因為這個是累進稅率的關係可能因為部長您學的不是這個這方面我覺得是統計待會可以請王美花部長跟您說明\n好基本度數的這個不調漲的原則我想這個部分我們都知道其實主要的問題是什麼就是錯誤的能源政策嗎我們可以看到這次要調漲的是針對民生用電基本度數330度以下的這個也都要調漲了而且是不分級距的全面調漲執政講求的是誠信所以本席希望你們能夠遵守蔡英文總統的承諾\n基本電數不調漲可以嗎?這個電價能不能調漲我們有一個電價審議委員會要來做全盤的評估這有不同的學者專家社會的公正人士那他們才能夠為這件事情做最後的一個決定其實在美國商會跟歐洲商會都對我國提出示警啦今天蔡政府應該要確保可長久而且有具競爭力的能源\n而且強調這個對我國的經濟成長可以說是至關重要所以蔡英文政府錯誤的能源政策不但造成工業民生用電的不穩還讓台電虧損連連到去年為止負債已經超過3826億了其實在蔡總統上任之前我們還有一個電價平穩基金還有剩800多億的盈餘所以再加上到目前累積的虧損是3826億\n這是我們目前從這個表格可以看到我們未來這個電價飆漲的一個危機\n所以院長我想現在您看到的是有關核能燃煤燃氣跟再生能源\n沒有人會反對綠能,我們只是想問的是臺電現在預估2024年核能發電只有111億度,2025年非核家園州將歸零,若以2023年核能發電的170億度到2025年歸零,這個電缺口要從哪個能源來補?蔡政府目前是要以天然氣、綠能來替代,那這兩年的能源的發電成本,這兩類的發電成本都偏高,這將使電價越來越高。\n所以院長您還認同您2015年所說的漲價機率不太高。剛才講過惡霧戰爭造成的染料的這個費用大量增加那如果委員你來看核能跟再生能源的占比核能的占比實際上是很低的。可以看核能現在你看我們其實核能的每度的均價是1.0\n但是這裡沒有包括核廢料處理還有核除液以後的經費所以您就可以看得到其實我想以核能來說的話確實是一個安全而且也是各國都能夠接受的一個現在的一個綠電還有再請教一下院長您知道天然氣的售價天然氣的售價有所謂的亞洲溢價院長您知道嗎我們天然氣有一個所謂的亞洲溢價您知道\n亞洲的議價\n五二戰爭才會造成臺電的虧損金額高達2675億。所以說如果我們不要那麼倚重天然氣的話虧損也不會那麼大。所以我想我們可以看一下天然氣的五年的走勢圖。各位可以看一下這個走勢圖我們就可以看到我國天然氣的這個這個亞洲的價格就是比較高\n而我國天然氣的占比高達50%本期要提醒院長未來天然氣採購價格何可能會再出現所謂的臺灣議論請問一下院長您同不同意要檢討我們現行的能源政策\n我想我們的能源政策經過檢討以後我們就是用剛才的這樣的配比來努力我們發展綠能我們現在要展示但是核能的部分我要跟委員講你講核能的部分實際上核能到目前為止多大的廚藝階段到達業力階段希望你們能夠檢討錯誤的能源政策那本期在這邊具體的呢要請院長\n是不是能夠針對電價的部分有兩項我們是不是能夠不要這個調漲第一個就是農業漁業還有一些工藝團體還有學生的這個社會機構的本次的調漲能夠比照2022年的做法讓電價不調漲\n報告院會,現在謝謝徐議員與甄的質詢。\n","vtt":"WEBVTT\n\n00:14.827 --> 00:16.208\n主席請院長謝謝麻煩再請陳院長備詢徐委員午安恭喜你當選立委謝謝謝謝院長\n\n00:30.211 --> 00:56.480\n院長您自詡為是溫暖的內閣那這個是我在我競選時候的slogan叫做溫暖堅毅所以說我也期許自己擔任立法委員之後呢要提出一些服國立民的法案讓人民覺得溫暖所以接下來我所要探討幾個議題喔如果能夠得到院長的支持的話相信一定也能夠讓人民覺得溫暖所以院長能不能夠支持我呢\n\n00:57.418 --> 01:23.043\n好當然我來聽聽看你的這個寶貴的意見也希望我們都能夠是一個讓人民感到溫暖跟堅定的建議。剛剛有關講到剛剛李委員有特別在質詢這個管主委還有提到說請陳院長再說明有關金門的這個翻船案的一個這個撞船的一個事件的執法過程跟釐清的一個目前處理的狀況。\n\n01:24.039 --> 01:42.513\n我聽到院長講到該道歉的就道歉我覺得這個是讓我覺得非常的欣慰因為其實我們不管有怎麼樣的一個執法的過程只要有錯誤就勇於承認那我想昨天在我們內政委員會就是因為針對這個金門的翻船案沒有影像\n\n01:43.291 --> 02:10.273\n然後沒有辦法說明真相所以說大家各說各話雖然昨天一度有傳出周梅武署長說真的有影像那已經叫給剪掉了那當然雖然說事後說是雷達影像但是呢我想在這過程中其實我們昨天爭議的點不是在我們對海巡署有意見我們非常支持海巡署的執法我們有意見的是管主委不該善改我們專報的題目\n\n02:12.438 --> 02:40.000\n我們金門翻船案昨天開這個專報就是為了讓海巡署讓海委會來釐清真相讓他們有個說明的機會結果因為昨天的管主委不肯道歉而有這樣子的一個浪費了前面30分鐘的時間所以我覺得管主委如果能夠像院長一樣該道歉就道歉我相信這個事件就不會發生了我剛才講的就是說我們司法偵查完了我們來按照這樣的方式\n\n02:43.621 --> 03:06.546\n關主委,這個部分不用您回答,謝謝。我們有拿道歉的版本,符合我國法制的道歉的版本來公布。關主委,麻煩請。請院長,您知道TPAS通勤月票的政策嗎?您知道嗎?\n\n03:09.110 --> 03:36.944\n您看一下我的這個通行譽票的政策我想請教一下為什麼一開始只有雙北在做這樣子的一個政策我不清楚當時雙北為什麼會做這樣的政策但是在2022年的選舉的時候我們北北基桃的候選人都有提出來TPAS這樣的一個想法就是說由這個四個城市一起來共用這一個\n\n03:37.244 --> 03:54.074\n我來告訴院長當時是在2018年的時候新北市政府的朱立倫市長跟臺北市政府的柯文哲市長為了鼓勵民眾來多多利用的這個大眾運輸系統所以共同的提出了這個運輸定期票每月1280的這樣的一個政策\n\n03:55.919 --> 04:14.701\n每年需要補貼9億4千多萬給相關的業者。那陳榮剛剛院長講的在2022年的時候9和1的選舉不管是國民黨、民進黨、民眾黨的候選人都有提出來這個北北基桃的這個聯合的這個提出在1200的這個月票的問題\n\n04:15.438 --> 04:31.543\n那跨縣市的交通月票的共同政見那所以呢我想每個月每年需要這個經費大概是35億當時行政院就承諾會立即辦理那由中央補助政府來落實交通平權的這樣子的一個概念\n\n04:32.096 --> 04:45.364\n那2023年7月1日也擴大到全國施行目前有11個區域就可以在這個我的簡報檔上看到11個區域有通勤月票而且由行政院全面的來補貼解決一國兩個制度的問題\n\n04:48.584 --> 04:49.385\n目前我們的預算是編到114年\n\n05:32.137 --> 05:56.923\n為了落實交通平權也是一個好的政策所以請院長能夠繼續支持這個計畫的進行接下來要請教這個計畫是還蠻成功的現在有3.65億整次謝謝那我們就好的計畫我們就繼續讓他執行那另外剛剛是講交通平權現在我要請教的院長是您贊不贊成支不支持大陸籍配偶跟外籍配偶年限一樣\n\n06:04.381 --> 06:20.488\n大陸配偶取得身份證跟其他國家的配偶取得身份證的這個方式確實是目前有不一樣而不一樣的情況下如果按照各項的項目來看的話大陸配偶享受到的這樣的一個\n\n06:21.869 --> 06:22.089\n目前是6年。\n\n06:45.194 --> 06:49.937\n請問現在現行是6年就沒有這個問題嗎?為什麼改成4年就會有這個問題呢?感覺像這個就是邏輯不通啊。這個我想陸委會主委比較清楚全部的來龍去脈。基本上我想委員大概都知道啦,這個我們從憲法徵求條文裡面他就特別做的這樣的規定。\n\n07:12.403 --> 07:12.483\n主席\n\n07:27.463 --> 07:29.824\n請問院長你有沒有看過2020年6月出版的公民與政治權利國際公約的執行情形?\n\n07:54.314 --> 08:18.856\n簽約國根據公約的第40條提交的第三次國家的報告請院長看一下在第61頁的第239點大陸配偶來台取得身份證年限調整為外籍配偶一致以凝聚臺灣地區與大陸地區人民關係條例第17條的修正草案上代立法院完成立法程序\n\n08:19.564 --> 08:36.434\n請問院長,行政院修法的版本在哪裡?行政院沒有修法的版本,這是我們在執行情形的時候請國際學者來評估,然後他也聽了我們國內的專家還有人民的意見以後所提的。\n\n08:37.294 --> 09:04.849\n這是一個建議。實際上在這個建議的過程當中,他們並不了解我們兩岸條例修正的時候,實際上對於陸配以及他的家屬的這些人權保障。院長,這個報告是我們提供的吧?這個國家報告是我們提供的吧?那如果沒有這個版本的話,這樣寫是不是在欺騙國際社會?沒有沒有,這個是建議啊。沒關係,院長。如果接下來的話這個版本,因為我剛好也有提出了有關\n\n09:05.689 --> 09:33.785\n兩岸關係的第17條的修正草案所以我可以來幫院長完成這個公報的這個國家報告的這個政策。好,院長現在再請教您現行大陸配偶來臺制度已經超過14年了但大陸配偶取得身份證的年限卻比外籍配偶來得長所以依據我國的移民政策的話其實我們是多元包容尊重人權及合理的保障移入人口的一個權益\n\n09:35.290 --> 10:02.308\n所以我想基於憲法平等的原則大陸配偶取得身份證的年限4年可以進一步的保障合法的兩岸人、婚姻大陸的配偶來台的權益也可以實現兩公約人權的保障的措施落實我國人口跟移民的政策那所以本席在這邊再請教院長請問院長調降大陸配偶取得身份證的年限會不會增加健保的支出\n\n10:03.689 --> 10:16.930\n在這個部分我想要看他有一些條件但是剛才你提到的這一些你剛才念的那一段我想要再跟委員做一個報告\n\n10:17.529 --> 10:19.991\n我跟院長說明其實我們現在外籍配偶\n\n10:41.459 --> 10:41.999\n那是因為有一些他們不願意來這裡取得。\n\n11:03.154 --> 11:32.072\n就是其實是不會增加健保的支出為什麼呢因為其實我們目前根據定居的定義第三條你可以看一下臺灣地區人民的直系、血親跟配偶必須年滿70歲而且一年僅有60個名額所以本席所提的兩岸關係條例的第17條如果能夠完成修法的話可申請來臺的這個定居的名額不會增加\n\n11:52.062 --> 12:00.764\n拜託委員,如果說修法是不是要把60人也修進去?沒有,我的修法沒有改,所以我們不會增加健保的支出。沒有,我說配套措施就把60人也修進去,變成法律。\n\n12:14.110 --> 12:28.909\n不好意思,請問一下,要不然部長來當立委好了,你來提出說法。我的建議是這個樣子。第二個我跟委員補充,陸配大概有三分之一,我們現在陸配大概將近36萬,但是有12萬人其實是不在台灣的。\n\n12:29.790 --> 12:55.055\n因為他們就是臺灣臺商的幹部我想我們現在關本席問的是剛剛問的本席問的是指健保會不會增加資助那剛剛有提到的嘛因為來臺定居的人數並不會增加所以根本不會增加健保的資助所以這樣子的一個論調引起人民的恐慌我覺得這樣是很不適當的那當然現在啦\n\n12:55.815 --> 13:16.556\n現在的這個老人健保的這個我要再請教的是有關老人健保費的補助因為現行老人健保的補助各縣市不一致70歲以上的中低收入老人的健保費是由衛福部全額補助65歲到69歲的中低收入戶的老人健保費則是以各縣市的這個\n\n13:17.324 --> 13:19.647\n請問院長您看到我們現在這個各縣市健保補助經費的這個表格您有什麼感想?\n\n13:31.949 --> 13:55.602\n我想健保很重要的一件事情他也需要有永續那在永續的時候他如果有一貫的制度的話是會比較好而且也要注意到這一個世代的正義因為現在每一個人的平均壽命都在延長很多人的壽命都在延長在這樣的一個情況下如果我們就對某一個高齡的人\n\n14:04.165 --> 14:24.874\n本席提到的是平權就是我在別的縣市是可以享受到這個老人健保但是呢我比如說現在很多縣市包括六都他們都有這個老人健保的補助那我如果住像我之前在雲林縣我在雲林縣卻沒有辦法卻因為財政的關係沒有辦法為什麼同卡不同命\n\n14:25.598 --> 14:40.445\n為什麼不能全國?您剛說的那個論點跟這件事情我想是沒有關係。我要指的是說既然同樣都是為65歲以上的這個老人,有些縣市他是可以健保費不必給付,有些縣市卻必須要自己給付。\n\n14:40.825 --> 15:04.335\n那這個部分就違反憲法平權的一個概念。所以今天本席提到的都是平權的一個概念。各位委員報告,這平權包括有兩個意義。現在你看到的是水平的平權,但是我們未來老人家越來越多,年輕人越來越少。所以如果說超過65歲的通通都是免這個健保費的話,\n\n15:08.717 --> 15:23.690\n市長,我現在要提的我不是叫你這個健保的部分,我本時會提出的是老人福利法的修法。這是世代的平權的問題。所以要求老人的健保能夠全國統一,有中央編列預算。\n\n15:24.671 --> 15:39.163\n那希望陳院長能夠支持。我是覺得65歲的老人健保有全國變略預算,這樣就是我剛才講的,就是未來的世代平權就會打破了。因為現在的人都被活到85歲。\n\n15:45.908 --> 15:47.768\n請教院長,您知不知道國軍編列木林經費的目的是什麼?\n\n16:16.104 --> 16:20.726\n國軍在海上或路上的演習對民眾造成影響或者是損害犧牲的補償嗎?所以\n\n16:45.514 --> 16:49.037\n請教一下部長,您覺得現行的補償方式公平嗎?\n\n16:49.037 --> 17:02.686\n有真正補償到受到影響的民眾嗎?我跟委員報告,這個補償方法大概從民國96年開始,當中有很多意見,一開始發到縣,縣的話地方鄉鎮市區就有意見,現在我們這錢是補償到鄉鎮市區。\n\n17:05.908 --> 17:06.088\n主席\n\n17:19.711 --> 17:48.119\n您剛提到是補貼到鄉鎮市公所嘛那鄉鎮市公所一定能夠了解影響到影響民眾的需求嘛舉例來說喔國軍對海涉及影響的是漁民最了解漁民的需求到底是誰當然是漁會但是補助的經費卻編給公所所以變成說牧林經費的30%就根據牧林經費的要點規定是要做海岸設施改善或海洋生態保健\n\n17:48.749 --> 17:49.010\n許宇甄\n\n18:03.916 --> 18:08.860\n那如果公所因為地方的一個種種因素導致協調的困難,漁民根本享受不到牧林經費的照顧呢?\n\n18:30.740 --> 18:33.541\n所以剛剛部長提到的因為漁會是人民團體所以不能直接補助那請問農業部有直接補助給漁會嗎?\n\n18:55.150 --> 19:21.948\n對,看農業部哪一種補助嘛,如果是要該補助給漁會的這個當然可以。對,那既然農業部也可以補助給人民團體,一樣是行政單位,為什麼農業部可以直接補助給漁會?國防部不行。不是,我跟委員報告,他地方縣、鄉長市區政府可以問這些漁會,你問什麼在哪裡比較像,他把它納進來,也一樣擺在這個裡面。如果真的有做到,我今天不會在這邊質詢你這樣的問題。\n\n19:25.411 --> 19:49.631\n我剛剛講的規定不能改嗎?不符合需求我覺得就應該要修正啊。到底是什麼原因只能供所不能給漁會?因為事實上啊,供所其實都沒有跟漁會協調啦。因為真正了解漁民需求的應該就是漁會他們最了解。所以說我是建議啦,就是說如果啦,如果國防不好你不能直接補助給漁費那是法源的問題。好,OK。\n\n19:51.158 --> 20:11.926\n國防部可不可以把這相關的經費給農業部讓農業部來補助給漁會呢?這樣是不是最能夠達到這樣的目的呢?我是覺得這樣啦委員如果覺得說在地方的鄉鎮做得不盡完善的時候我們會請他們在跟漁會或者是跟農會或者跟水利會\n\n20:12.486 --> 20:15.050\n因為剛剛部長提到其實這個木林經費工作要點其實在去年的12月有做了一個\n\n20:29.529 --> 20:31.110\n新竹縣和新竹市的多個鄉鎮以往每個鄉鎮都可以30%補助\n\n20:47.884 --> 21:08.717\n他現在只有最高這個經費的百分之三十所以對他們來說這樣的新修訂的要點不但沒有增加他們經費的補助反而還大幅的減少形同減半再減半所以請問院長跟部長喔這種沒經過溝通就刪減經費的做法其實不是很理想是不是能夠重新檢討\n\n21:09.741 --> 21:33.594\n回復原本的補助方式呢?我們讓部長來回答我跟委員報告一下好不好當初當陸委員提到這些問題當初全部平均在分配就造成問題我的影響大為什麼跟他影響小是一樣所以紛紛找到問題沒有停過我們一定很傷腦筋所以但是目前我跟委員報告我們這個做法公告之前要做的一定是經過大家協調的\n\n21:36.155 --> 21:50.105\n今天本席會在這邊質詢這個問題就是漁業、漁會、漁業界、漁民的這個一些反彈的聲音。所以是不是能夠請部長在這邊裡面提出一些建議的方式在一個月內回覆本席好嗎?\n\n21:50.925 --> 22:07.833\n我們未來在協調的時候來看看怎麼樣來加強。然後另外我想請教的就是說因為其實對於我想這個木林政策其實當然就是希望在我們這樣演訓過程中對漁業所造成的傷害或是說沒有讓他們一些這個沒有辦法\n\n22:08.833 --> 22:37.579\n呃,就是影響生計的一個狀況之下呢,像我以舉例來,以111年臺東的海域為例,三到六月是他們的一個餘訊期。但是當年度的六月有中科院、有海軍、有陸軍等單位共計43天的砲火射擊演習。若再加上天候不佳不能出員,等於整個餘訊期都報銷了。所以在這邊,再想請教部長,如果沒有辦法增加經費的話,至少要恢復原補助的標準。\n\n22:37.964 --> 23:05.810\n因為這個問題會影響到的產業是的主管機關是農業部我想請教農業部您的部長您的意見是什麼?基本上那個整個的一個漁業的補發的時候他有他的特定的一些漁訓區就像剛才陳如那個委員所說的那在漁訓區我剛提的是說未來如果剛講的說這個補助不能直接給漁會那你們其實很多補助是直接給漁會是不是可以國防部如果\n\n23:06.175 --> 23:07.215\n接下來要跟這個院長討論的是電價的調漲的問題\n\n23:32.621 --> 23:49.143\n院長您可以看到一下這個是本席特別將您跟蔡英文總統在2015年選舉時候講過的話整理出來那時候都不管是蔡總統或院長您都提到臺灣電力供應是足夠漲價的機率不會太高\n\n23:50.237 --> 24:09.694\n蔡總統也說10年內不會大漲。請問院長你可不可以說一下什麼叫做大漲?大漲的定律是什麼?不會大漲又是怎樣?我想天有不測風雲。全世界不管哪一個國家都不會料想到有這個俄烏戰爭。而俄烏戰爭發生以後所有的染料就增加。我想\n\n24:10.695 --> 24:29.920\n即使是神仙他也可能很難猜到所以不能夠拿這個2015年2016年的情況來講那什麼叫做大漲呢?如果按照俄烏戰爭引起的這一個電費的染料費增加的話各國的大漲都是漲在50%到兩倍以上50%到兩倍以上那我們現在調漲兩次一個8%一個11%今年4月又要再調漲\n\n24:40.383 --> 24:53.552\n就我的了解現在是跟針對民生用電330度以下都不能總漲幅31%你怎麼算出來的啊?是累進的這個總幅8.4%這累進不是三個相加這個部分之後可以請王美花部長可以請王美花部長再告訴你現在是因為這個是累進稅率的關係可能因為部長您學的不是這個這方面我覺得是統計待會可以請王美花部長跟您說明\n\n25:08.883 --> 25:36.024\n好基本度數的這個不調漲的原則我想這個部分我們都知道其實主要的問題是什麼就是錯誤的能源政策嗎我們可以看到這次要調漲的是針對民生用電基本度數330度以下的這個也都要調漲了而且是不分級距的全面調漲執政講求的是誠信所以本席希望你們能夠遵守蔡英文總統的承諾\n\n25:36.960 --> 26:04.835\n基本電數不調漲可以嗎?這個電價能不能調漲我們有一個電價審議委員會要來做全盤的評估這有不同的學者專家社會的公正人士那他們才能夠為這件事情做最後的一個決定其實在美國商會跟歐洲商會都對我國提出示警啦今天蔡政府應該要確保可長久而且有具競爭力的能源\n\n26:05.535 --> 26:31.911\n而且強調這個對我國的經濟成長可以說是至關重要所以蔡英文政府錯誤的能源政策不但造成工業民生用電的不穩還讓台電虧損連連到去年為止負債已經超過3826億了其實在蔡總統上任之前我們還有一個電價平穩基金還有剩800多億的盈餘所以再加上到目前累積的虧損是3826億\n\n26:34.222 --> 26:35.463\n這是我們目前從這個表格可以看到我們未來這個電價飆漲的一個危機\n\n26:57.850 --> 27:03.398\n所以院長我想現在您看到的是有關核能燃煤燃氣跟再生能源\n\n27:04.915 --> 27:32.714\n沒有人會反對綠能,我們只是想問的是臺電現在預估2024年核能發電只有111億度,2025年非核家園州將歸零,若以2023年核能發電的170億度到2025年歸零,這個電缺口要從哪個能源來補?蔡政府目前是要以天然氣、綠能來替代,那這兩年的能源的發電成本,這兩類的發電成本都偏高,這將使電價越來越高。\n\n27:33.394 --> 27:55.590\n所以院長您還認同您2015年所說的漲價機率不太高。剛才講過惡霧戰爭造成的染料的這個費用大量增加那如果委員你來看核能跟再生能源的占比核能的占比實際上是很低的。可以看核能現在你看我們其實核能的每度的均價是1.0\n\n27:56.631 --> 28:20.197\n但是這裡沒有包括核廢料處理還有核除液以後的經費所以您就可以看得到其實我想以核能來說的話確實是一個安全而且也是各國都能夠接受的一個現在的一個綠電還有再請教一下院長您知道天然氣的售價天然氣的售價有所謂的亞洲溢價院長您知道嗎我們天然氣有一個所謂的亞洲溢價您知道\n\n28:26.214 --> 28:26.434\n亞洲的議價\n\n28:47.611 --> 29:08.952\n五二戰爭才會造成臺電的虧損金額高達2675億。所以說如果我們不要那麼倚重天然氣的話虧損也不會那麼大。所以我想我們可以看一下天然氣的五年的走勢圖。各位可以看一下這個走勢圖我們就可以看到我國天然氣的這個這個亞洲的價格就是比較高\n\n29:09.892 --> 29:20.158\n而我國天然氣的占比高達50%本期要提醒院長未來天然氣採購價格何可能會再出現所謂的臺灣議論請問一下院長您同不同意要檢討我們現行的能源政策\n\n29:27.588 --> 29:46.055\n我想我們的能源政策經過檢討以後我們就是用剛才的這樣的配比來努力我們發展綠能我們現在要展示但是核能的部分我要跟委員講你講核能的部分實際上核能到目前為止多大的廚藝階段到達業力階段希望你們能夠檢討錯誤的能源政策那本期在這邊具體的呢要請院長\n\n29:55.959 --> 30:07.470\n是不是能夠針對電價的部分有兩項我們是不是能夠不要這個調漲第一個就是農業漁業還有一些工藝團體還有學生的這個社會機構的本次的調漲能夠比照2022年的做法讓電價不調漲\n\n30:15.816 --> 30:16.356\n報告院會,現在謝謝徐議員與甄的質詢。\n\n","segments":[{"start":14.827,"end":16.208,"text":"主席請院長謝謝麻煩再請陳院長備詢徐委員午安恭喜你當選立委謝謝謝謝院長"},{"start":30.211,"end":56.48,"text":"院長您自詡為是溫暖的內閣那這個是我在我競選時候的slogan叫做溫暖堅毅所以說我也期許自己擔任立法委員之後呢要提出一些服國立民的法案讓人民覺得溫暖所以接下來我所要探討幾個議題喔如果能夠得到院長的支持的話相信一定也能夠讓人民覺得溫暖所以院長能不能夠支持我呢"},{"start":57.418,"end":83.043,"text":"好當然我來聽聽看你的這個寶貴的意見也希望我們都能夠是一個讓人民感到溫暖跟堅定的建議。剛剛有關講到剛剛李委員有特別在質詢這個管主委還有提到說請陳院長再說明有關金門的這個翻船案的一個這個撞船的一個事件的執法過程跟釐清的一個目前處理的狀況。"},{"start":84.039,"end":102.513,"text":"我聽到院長講到該道歉的就道歉我覺得這個是讓我覺得非常的欣慰因為其實我們不管有怎麼樣的一個執法的過程只要有錯誤就勇於承認那我想昨天在我們內政委員會就是因為針對這個金門的翻船案沒有影像"},{"start":103.291,"end":130.273,"text":"然後沒有辦法說明真相所以說大家各說各話雖然昨天一度有傳出周梅武署長說真的有影像那已經叫給剪掉了那當然雖然說事後說是雷達影像但是呢我想在這過程中其實我們昨天爭議的點不是在我們對海巡署有意見我們非常支持海巡署的執法我們有意見的是管主委不該善改我們專報的題目"},{"start":132.438,"end":160,"text":"我們金門翻船案昨天開這個專報就是為了讓海巡署讓海委會來釐清真相讓他們有個說明的機會結果因為昨天的管主委不肯道歉而有這樣子的一個浪費了前面30分鐘的時間所以我覺得管主委如果能夠像院長一樣該道歉就道歉我相信這個事件就不會發生了我剛才講的就是說我們司法偵查完了我們來按照這樣的方式"},{"start":163.621,"end":186.546,"text":"關主委,這個部分不用您回答,謝謝。我們有拿道歉的版本,符合我國法制的道歉的版本來公布。關主委,麻煩請。請院長,您知道TPAS通勤月票的政策嗎?您知道嗎?"},{"start":189.11,"end":216.944,"text":"您看一下我的這個通行譽票的政策我想請教一下為什麼一開始只有雙北在做這樣子的一個政策我不清楚當時雙北為什麼會做這樣的政策但是在2022年的選舉的時候我們北北基桃的候選人都有提出來TPAS這樣的一個想法就是說由這個四個城市一起來共用這一個"},{"start":217.244,"end":234.074,"text":"我來告訴院長當時是在2018年的時候新北市政府的朱立倫市長跟臺北市政府的柯文哲市長為了鼓勵民眾來多多利用的這個大眾運輸系統所以共同的提出了這個運輸定期票每月1280的這樣的一個政策"},{"start":235.919,"end":254.701,"text":"每年需要補貼9億4千多萬給相關的業者。那陳榮剛剛院長講的在2022年的時候9和1的選舉不管是國民黨、民進黨、民眾黨的候選人都有提出來這個北北基桃的這個聯合的這個提出在1200的這個月票的問題"},{"start":255.438,"end":271.543,"text":"那跨縣市的交通月票的共同政見那所以呢我想每個月每年需要這個經費大概是35億當時行政院就承諾會立即辦理那由中央補助政府來落實交通平權的這樣子的一個概念"},{"start":272.096,"end":285.364,"text":"那2023年7月1日也擴大到全國施行目前有11個區域就可以在這個我的簡報檔上看到11個區域有通勤月票而且由行政院全面的來補貼解決一國兩個制度的問題"},{"start":288.584,"end":289.385,"text":"目前我們的預算是編到114年"},{"start":304.241,"end":331.817,"text":"議員﹚"},{"start":332.137,"end":356.923,"text":"為了落實交通平權也是一個好的政策所以請院長能夠繼續支持這個計畫的進行接下來要請教這個計畫是還蠻成功的現在有3.65億整次謝謝那我們就好的計畫我們就繼續讓他執行那另外剛剛是講交通平權現在我要請教的院長是您贊不贊成支不支持大陸籍配偶跟外籍配偶年限一樣"},{"start":364.381,"end":380.488,"text":"大陸配偶取得身份證跟其他國家的配偶取得身份證的這個方式確實是目前有不一樣而不一樣的情況下如果按照各項的項目來看的話大陸配偶享受到的這樣的一個"},{"start":381.869,"end":382.089,"text":"目前是6年。"},{"start":405.194,"end":409.937,"text":"請問現在現行是6年就沒有這個問題嗎?為什麼改成4年就會有這個問題呢?感覺像這個就是邏輯不通啊。這個我想陸委會主委比較清楚全部的來龍去脈。基本上我想委員大概都知道啦,這個我們從憲法徵求條文裡面他就特別做的這樣的規定。"},{"start":432.403,"end":432.483,"text":"主席"},{"start":447.463,"end":449.824,"text":"請問院長你有沒有看過2020年6月出版的公民與政治權利國際公約的執行情形?"},{"start":474.314,"end":498.856,"text":"簽約國根據公約的第40條提交的第三次國家的報告請院長看一下在第61頁的第239點大陸配偶來台取得身份證年限調整為外籍配偶一致以凝聚臺灣地區與大陸地區人民關係條例第17條的修正草案上代立法院完成立法程序"},{"start":499.564,"end":516.434,"text":"請問院長,行政院修法的版本在哪裡?行政院沒有修法的版本,這是我們在執行情形的時候請國際學者來評估,然後他也聽了我們國內的專家還有人民的意見以後所提的。"},{"start":517.294,"end":544.849,"text":"這是一個建議。實際上在這個建議的過程當中,他們並不了解我們兩岸條例修正的時候,實際上對於陸配以及他的家屬的這些人權保障。院長,這個報告是我們提供的吧?這個國家報告是我們提供的吧?那如果沒有這個版本的話,這樣寫是不是在欺騙國際社會?沒有沒有,這個是建議啊。沒關係,院長。如果接下來的話這個版本,因為我剛好也有提出了有關"},{"start":545.689,"end":573.785,"text":"兩岸關係的第17條的修正草案所以我可以來幫院長完成這個公報的這個國家報告的這個政策。好,院長現在再請教您現行大陸配偶來臺制度已經超過14年了但大陸配偶取得身份證的年限卻比外籍配偶來得長所以依據我國的移民政策的話其實我們是多元包容尊重人權及合理的保障移入人口的一個權益"},{"start":575.29,"end":602.308,"text":"所以我想基於憲法平等的原則大陸配偶取得身份證的年限4年可以進一步的保障合法的兩岸人、婚姻大陸的配偶來台的權益也可以實現兩公約人權的保障的措施落實我國人口跟移民的政策那所以本席在這邊再請教院長請問院長調降大陸配偶取得身份證的年限會不會增加健保的支出"},{"start":603.689,"end":616.93,"text":"在這個部分我想要看他有一些條件但是剛才你提到的這一些你剛才念的那一段我想要再跟委員做一個報告"},{"start":617.529,"end":619.991,"text":"我跟院長說明其實我們現在外籍配偶"},{"start":641.459,"end":641.999,"text":"那是因為有一些他們不願意來這裡取得。"},{"start":663.154,"end":692.072,"text":"就是其實是不會增加健保的支出為什麼呢因為其實我們目前根據定居的定義第三條你可以看一下臺灣地區人民的直系、血親跟配偶必須年滿70歲而且一年僅有60個名額所以本席所提的兩岸關係條例的第17條如果能夠完成修法的話可申請來臺的這個定居的名額不會增加"},{"start":692.568,"end":711.698,"text":"﹗"},{"start":712.062,"end":720.764,"text":"拜託委員,如果說修法是不是要把60人也修進去?沒有,我的修法沒有改,所以我們不會增加健保的支出。沒有,我說配套措施就把60人也修進去,變成法律。"},{"start":734.11,"end":748.909,"text":"不好意思,請問一下,要不然部長來當立委好了,你來提出說法。我的建議是這個樣子。第二個我跟委員補充,陸配大概有三分之一,我們現在陸配大概將近36萬,但是有12萬人其實是不在台灣的。"},{"start":749.79,"end":775.055,"text":"因為他們就是臺灣臺商的幹部我想我們現在關本席問的是剛剛問的本席問的是指健保會不會增加資助那剛剛有提到的嘛因為來臺定居的人數並不會增加所以根本不會增加健保的資助所以這樣子的一個論調引起人民的恐慌我覺得這樣是很不適當的那當然現在啦"},{"start":775.815,"end":796.556,"text":"現在的這個老人健保的這個我要再請教的是有關老人健保費的補助因為現行老人健保的補助各縣市不一致70歲以上的中低收入老人的健保費是由衛福部全額補助65歲到69歲的中低收入戶的老人健保費則是以各縣市的這個"},{"start":797.324,"end":799.647,"text":"請問院長您看到我們現在這個各縣市健保補助經費的這個表格您有什麼感想?"},{"start":811.949,"end":835.602,"text":"我想健保很重要的一件事情他也需要有永續那在永續的時候他如果有一貫的制度的話是會比較好而且也要注意到這一個世代的正義因為現在每一個人的平均壽命都在延長很多人的壽命都在延長在這樣的一個情況下如果我們就對某一個高齡的人"},{"start":844.165,"end":864.874,"text":"本席提到的是平權就是我在別的縣市是可以享受到這個老人健保但是呢我比如說現在很多縣市包括六都他們都有這個老人健保的補助那我如果住像我之前在雲林縣我在雲林縣卻沒有辦法卻因為財政的關係沒有辦法為什麼同卡不同命"},{"start":865.598,"end":880.445,"text":"為什麼不能全國?您剛說的那個論點跟這件事情我想是沒有關係。我要指的是說既然同樣都是為65歲以上的這個老人,有些縣市他是可以健保費不必給付,有些縣市卻必須要自己給付。"},{"start":880.825,"end":904.335,"text":"那這個部分就違反憲法平權的一個概念。所以今天本席提到的都是平權的一個概念。各位委員報告,這平權包括有兩個意義。現在你看到的是水平的平權,但是我們未來老人家越來越多,年輕人越來越少。所以如果說超過65歲的通通都是免這個健保費的話,"},{"start":908.717,"end":923.69,"text":"市長,我現在要提的我不是叫你這個健保的部分,我本時會提出的是老人福利法的修法。這是世代的平權的問題。所以要求老人的健保能夠全國統一,有中央編列預算。"},{"start":924.671,"end":939.163,"text":"那希望陳院長能夠支持。我是覺得65歲的老人健保有全國變略預算,這樣就是我剛才講的,就是未來的世代平權就會打破了。因為現在的人都被活到85歲。"},{"start":945.908,"end":947.768,"text":"請教院長,您知不知道國軍編列木林經費的目的是什麼?"},{"start":976.104,"end":980.726,"text":"國軍在海上或路上的演習對民眾造成影響或者是損害犧牲的補償嗎?所以"},{"start":1005.514,"end":1009.037,"text":"請教一下部長,您覺得現行的補償方式公平嗎?"},{"start":1009.037,"end":1022.686,"text":"有真正補償到受到影響的民眾嗎?我跟委員報告,這個補償方法大概從民國96年開始,當中有很多意見,一開始發到縣,縣的話地方鄉鎮市區就有意見,現在我們這錢是補償到鄉鎮市區。"},{"start":1025.908,"end":1026.088,"text":"主席"},{"start":1039.711,"end":1068.119,"text":"您剛提到是補貼到鄉鎮市公所嘛那鄉鎮市公所一定能夠了解影響到影響民眾的需求嘛舉例來說喔國軍對海涉及影響的是漁民最了解漁民的需求到底是誰當然是漁會但是補助的經費卻編給公所所以變成說牧林經費的30%就根據牧林經費的要點規定是要做海岸設施改善或海洋生態保健"},{"start":1068.749,"end":1069.01,"text":"許宇甄"},{"start":1083.916,"end":1088.86,"text":"那如果公所因為地方的一個種種因素導致協調的困難,漁民根本享受不到牧林經費的照顧呢?"},{"start":1110.74,"end":1113.541,"text":"所以剛剛部長提到的因為漁會是人民團體所以不能直接補助那請問農業部有直接補助給漁會嗎?"},{"start":1135.15,"end":1161.948,"text":"對,看農業部哪一種補助嘛,如果是要該補助給漁會的這個當然可以。對,那既然農業部也可以補助給人民團體,一樣是行政單位,為什麼農業部可以直接補助給漁會?國防部不行。不是,我跟委員報告,他地方縣、鄉長市區政府可以問這些漁會,你問什麼在哪裡比較像,他把它納進來,也一樣擺在這個裡面。如果真的有做到,我今天不會在這邊質詢你這樣的問題。"},{"start":1165.411,"end":1189.631,"text":"我剛剛講的規定不能改嗎?不符合需求我覺得就應該要修正啊。到底是什麼原因只能供所不能給漁會?因為事實上啊,供所其實都沒有跟漁會協調啦。因為真正了解漁民需求的應該就是漁會他們最了解。所以說我是建議啦,就是說如果啦,如果國防不好你不能直接補助給漁費那是法源的問題。好,OK。"},{"start":1191.158,"end":1211.926,"text":"國防部可不可以把這相關的經費給農業部讓農業部來補助給漁會呢?這樣是不是最能夠達到這樣的目的呢?我是覺得這樣啦委員如果覺得說在地方的鄉鎮做得不盡完善的時候我們會請他們在跟漁會或者是跟農會或者跟水利會"},{"start":1212.486,"end":1215.05,"text":"因為剛剛部長提到其實這個木林經費工作要點其實在去年的12月有做了一個"},{"start":1229.529,"end":1231.11,"text":"新竹縣和新竹市的多個鄉鎮以往每個鄉鎮都可以30%補助"},{"start":1247.884,"end":1268.717,"text":"他現在只有最高這個經費的百分之三十所以對他們來說這樣的新修訂的要點不但沒有增加他們經費的補助反而還大幅的減少形同減半再減半所以請問院長跟部長喔這種沒經過溝通就刪減經費的做法其實不是很理想是不是能夠重新檢討"},{"start":1269.741,"end":1293.594,"text":"回復原本的補助方式呢?我們讓部長來回答我跟委員報告一下好不好當初當陸委員提到這些問題當初全部平均在分配就造成問題我的影響大為什麼跟他影響小是一樣所以紛紛找到問題沒有停過我們一定很傷腦筋所以但是目前我跟委員報告我們這個做法公告之前要做的一定是經過大家協調的"},{"start":1296.155,"end":1310.105,"text":"今天本席會在這邊質詢這個問題就是漁業、漁會、漁業界、漁民的這個一些反彈的聲音。所以是不是能夠請部長在這邊裡面提出一些建議的方式在一個月內回覆本席好嗎?"},{"start":1310.925,"end":1327.833,"text":"我們未來在協調的時候來看看怎麼樣來加強。然後另外我想請教的就是說因為其實對於我想這個木林政策其實當然就是希望在我們這樣演訓過程中對漁業所造成的傷害或是說沒有讓他們一些這個沒有辦法"},{"start":1328.833,"end":1357.579,"text":"呃,就是影響生計的一個狀況之下呢,像我以舉例來,以111年臺東的海域為例,三到六月是他們的一個餘訊期。但是當年度的六月有中科院、有海軍、有陸軍等單位共計43天的砲火射擊演習。若再加上天候不佳不能出員,等於整個餘訊期都報銷了。所以在這邊,再想請教部長,如果沒有辦法增加經費的話,至少要恢復原補助的標準。"},{"start":1357.964,"end":1385.81,"text":"因為這個問題會影響到的產業是的主管機關是農業部我想請教農業部您的部長您的意見是什麼?基本上那個整個的一個漁業的補發的時候他有他的特定的一些漁訓區就像剛才陳如那個委員所說的那在漁訓區我剛提的是說未來如果剛講的說這個補助不能直接給漁會那你們其實很多補助是直接給漁會是不是可以國防部如果"},{"start":1386.175,"end":1387.215,"text":"接下來要跟這個院長討論的是電價的調漲的問題"},{"start":1412.621,"end":1429.143,"text":"院長您可以看到一下這個是本席特別將您跟蔡英文總統在2015年選舉時候講過的話整理出來那時候都不管是蔡總統或院長您都提到臺灣電力供應是足夠漲價的機率不會太高"},{"start":1430.237,"end":1449.694,"text":"蔡總統也說10年內不會大漲。請問院長你可不可以說一下什麼叫做大漲?大漲的定律是什麼?不會大漲又是怎樣?我想天有不測風雲。全世界不管哪一個國家都不會料想到有這個俄烏戰爭。而俄烏戰爭發生以後所有的染料就增加。我想"},{"start":1450.695,"end":1469.92,"text":"即使是神仙他也可能很難猜到所以不能夠拿這個2015年2016年的情況來講那什麼叫做大漲呢?如果按照俄烏戰爭引起的這一個電費的染料費增加的話各國的大漲都是漲在50%到兩倍以上50%到兩倍以上那我們現在調漲兩次一個8%一個11%今年4月又要再調漲"},{"start":1480.383,"end":1493.552,"text":"就我的了解現在是跟針對民生用電330度以下都不能總漲幅31%你怎麼算出來的啊?是累進的這個總幅8.4%這累進不是三個相加這個部分之後可以請王美花部長可以請王美花部長再告訴你現在是因為這個是累進稅率的關係可能因為部長您學的不是這個這方面我覺得是統計待會可以請王美花部長跟您說明"},{"start":1508.883,"end":1536.024,"text":"好基本度數的這個不調漲的原則我想這個部分我們都知道其實主要的問題是什麼就是錯誤的能源政策嗎我們可以看到這次要調漲的是針對民生用電基本度數330度以下的這個也都要調漲了而且是不分級距的全面調漲執政講求的是誠信所以本席希望你們能夠遵守蔡英文總統的承諾"},{"start":1536.96,"end":1564.835,"text":"基本電數不調漲可以嗎?這個電價能不能調漲我們有一個電價審議委員會要來做全盤的評估這有不同的學者專家社會的公正人士那他們才能夠為這件事情做最後的一個決定其實在美國商會跟歐洲商會都對我國提出示警啦今天蔡政府應該要確保可長久而且有具競爭力的能源"},{"start":1565.535,"end":1591.911,"text":"而且強調這個對我國的經濟成長可以說是至關重要所以蔡英文政府錯誤的能源政策不但造成工業民生用電的不穩還讓台電虧損連連到去年為止負債已經超過3826億了其實在蔡總統上任之前我們還有一個電價平穩基金還有剩800多億的盈餘所以再加上到目前累積的虧損是3826億"},{"start":1594.222,"end":1595.463,"text":"這是我們目前從這個表格可以看到我們未來這個電價飆漲的一個危機"},{"start":1617.85,"end":1623.398,"text":"所以院長我想現在您看到的是有關核能燃煤燃氣跟再生能源"},{"start":1624.915,"end":1652.714,"text":"沒有人會反對綠能,我們只是想問的是臺電現在預估2024年核能發電只有111億度,2025年非核家園州將歸零,若以2023年核能發電的170億度到2025年歸零,這個電缺口要從哪個能源來補?蔡政府目前是要以天然氣、綠能來替代,那這兩年的能源的發電成本,這兩類的發電成本都偏高,這將使電價越來越高。"},{"start":1653.394,"end":1675.59,"text":"所以院長您還認同您2015年所說的漲價機率不太高。剛才講過惡霧戰爭造成的染料的這個費用大量增加那如果委員你來看核能跟再生能源的占比核能的占比實際上是很低的。可以看核能現在你看我們其實核能的每度的均價是1.0"},{"start":1676.631,"end":1700.197,"text":"但是這裡沒有包括核廢料處理還有核除液以後的經費所以您就可以看得到其實我想以核能來說的話確實是一個安全而且也是各國都能夠接受的一個現在的一個綠電還有再請教一下院長您知道天然氣的售價天然氣的售價有所謂的亞洲溢價院長您知道嗎我們天然氣有一個所謂的亞洲溢價您知道"},{"start":1706.214,"end":1706.434,"text":"亞洲的議價"},{"start":1727.611,"end":1748.952,"text":"五二戰爭才會造成臺電的虧損金額高達2675億。所以說如果我們不要那麼倚重天然氣的話虧損也不會那麼大。所以我想我們可以看一下天然氣的五年的走勢圖。各位可以看一下這個走勢圖我們就可以看到我國天然氣的這個這個亞洲的價格就是比較高"},{"start":1749.892,"end":1760.158,"text":"而我國天然氣的占比高達50%本期要提醒院長未來天然氣採購價格何可能會再出現所謂的臺灣議論請問一下院長您同不同意要檢討我們現行的能源政策"},{"start":1767.588,"end":1786.055,"text":"我想我們的能源政策經過檢討以後我們就是用剛才的這樣的配比來努力我們發展綠能我們現在要展示但是核能的部分我要跟委員講你講核能的部分實際上核能到目前為止多大的廚藝階段到達業力階段希望你們能夠檢討錯誤的能源政策那本期在這邊具體的呢要請院長"},{"start":1795.959,"end":1807.47,"text":"是不是能夠針對電價的部分有兩項我們是不是能夠不要這個調漲第一個就是農業漁業還有一些工藝團體還有學生的這個社會機構的本次的調漲能夠比照2022年的做法讓電價不調漲"},{"start":1815.816,"end":1816.356,"text":"報告院會,現在謝謝徐議員與甄的質詢。"}]}}}}