{"id":149338,"url":"https://ivod.ly.gov.tw/Play/Clip/1M/149338","video_url":"https://ivod-lyvod.cdn.hinet.net/vod_1/_definst_/mp4:1MClips/aa454a369d2b172f7630e9e915f3214590274675d1217385f8ba9b0039caa7a6ba19aca0d7bc67965ea18f28b6918d91.mp4/playlist.m3u8","委員名稱":"林楚茵","委員發言時間":"09:46:34 - 09:55:16","影片長度":"00:08:42","會議時間":"2024-03-06T09:00:00+08:00","會議名稱":"立法院第11屆第1會期外交及國防委員會第2次全體委員會議（事由：邀請國軍退除役官兵輔導委員會主任委員馮世寬報告業務概況，並備質詢。）","meet":{"tmpMeeting":null,"title":"第11屆第1會期外交及國防委員會第2次全體委員會議","term":11,"type":"委員會","sessionPeriod":1,"sessionTimes":2,"committees":[35],"id":"委員會-11-1-35-2"},"date":"2024-03-06","duration":522,"end_time":"2024-03-06T09:55:16+08:00","start_time":"2024-03-06T09:46:34+08:00","features":["ai-transcript","gazette"],"type":"Clip","gazette":{"lineno":191,"blocks":[["林委員楚茵：（9時46分）謝謝主席，有請馮主委。"],["主席：馮主委，請。"],["馮主任委員世寬：委員早。"],["林委員楚茵：主委，早安。剛剛我非常仔細聆聽你的業務報告，包括這些書面的內容。因為本席自己的弟弟也是空軍退伍的軍官，所以我知道退輔會對於退休軍人以及其家屬們的照料，包括您所寫的，不論是長照、醫療或者是遺族、子女的照顧都非常健全。但非常巧的是我想要關注的題目同樣就是，如果退伍的軍人真的叛變了國家之後，我們該怎麼辦？我也找了新聞，這是2024跟2023年3個已經判刑確定的案例。我稍微唸一下，第一個，3個退休軍官收錢當共諜，依國安法判決有罪已經定讞，他所做的破壞行為也許是少數的害群之馬，就像您剛剛所說的。可是我唸一下，他是收取為中國從事發展組織、情蒐、刺探軍情之外，包括我們的兵力駐守報告還有南沙太平洋工作的報告，這是第一個案例所做的事情。你要知道他退休了領著退休俸，拿著國家對他未來退休所給與的部分，但是他傷害的是現役軍人。主委過去也當過國防部長，您知道像這種情資洩漏不只是發展組織，是情資洩漏，對於現役的傷害是非常大的。這3個案例您瞭解嗎？您知道嗎？因為都是退伍、退休之後所發生的事情。"],["馮主任委員世寬：我當國防部長的時候，這些案例我個人都瞭解，因為這個是我管轄的業務之一，我非常贊成要重罰而且也要重賞，提供這些資料的人要重賞，參與這些不法行動的人要重罰，我絕對如此贊成。另外，給您報告，規定要處分的、要把他的薪資收回的，我們幾乎百分之百執行。"],["林委員楚茵：您確定嗎？"],["馮主任委員世寬：是。"],["林委員楚茵：因為根據2019年所修正的國安法就是要繳回退休俸，您知道現在有多少的軍官被追討，而且追討回來多少金額？您有數據嗎？"],["馮主任委員世寬：我們有這個資料，我不在這裡宣讀，以免占用你的時間。"],["林委員楚茵：沒有關係，我有整理了。"],["馮主任委員世寬：這個提供給您參考。"],["林委員楚茵：我讓您知道一下，好嗎？"],["馮主任委員世寬：好。"],["林委員楚茵：現在違反國安法要追回退休俸的有14人，應返4,567萬2,549元，但是已經返還的只有668萬833塊，也就是將近4,000萬沒有追回，高達85%。您滿意這個處理進度嗎？"],["馮主任委員世寬：這個我不會滿意，但是我想給您報告，這14個人當中，有6個人還在訴訟中，因為在訴訟中，他就不願意把錢繳回。"],["林委員楚茵：好，沒問題，因為我知道，我所羅列的這14位當中，請大家及主委看一下，這些都是定讞，但定讞之後他們會做行政救濟的過程。大家來看一下，其中有4位返還0元，到底是完全沒有執行，還是已經脫產無法執行？我當然知道有兩個，包括張上校跟陳中校，因為還在救濟當中，但是除了在救濟當中的，其他人呢？還有像鄭姓中校才追回21塊。以鄭姓中校為例，他收受中國將近60萬的款項，協助中國吸收現役軍人、發展組織，這是非常恐怖的行為。但是從他110年9月9號判刑確定到進行追繳有3個月，然後到111年12月12號，等於過了1年才送出執行而且執行沒有結果，然後在第二次又過了9個月，言下之意這個過程有2年。我要講的是，在這樣的執行過程中，他要脫產早就已經脫產了，他要讓他的戶頭做所謂侵害債權的行為也都已經發生了。就像您剛剛宣示的，您希望能夠重罰或者是追回他的退休俸，但是這中間有太多的過程讓他可以有機會脫產，以至於發生前面我們看到的，有可能追不回來，又可能是他名下沒有財產。我想問的是，可不可能借鏡稅捐機關的作法？在稅捐稽徵法當中會有妥善的行政手段能夠來進行，比如禁止處分、假扣押或者是管收，一旦定讞、判刑確定之後，不要再給他這麼多的時間進行脫產。有沒有可能研議？"],["馮主任委員世寬：我們已經把6個人、共有兩千七百多萬的應繳納金額送法務部執行收繳，這個我們已經做到了，而且我們已經停俸，讓這些人都拿不到後面的退休俸，已經在執行了。"],["林委員楚茵：對，已經修法了。我想問您的是，在這14個人當中，還有將近4,000萬沒有返還，現在決定如何處理？會不會有可能因為時間拖得久了，就讓他完全脫產也拿不回來？以目前這樣的數據，大家最想知道的是，在這14個人當中，是不是真的有將近4,000萬的退休俸沒有追回來？"],["馮主任委員世寬：您的統計並沒有錯，應繳的就是四千多萬。至於這些人如何處理等等的，我們會繼續追查而且一定會站在國家已訂的法律面來執行，請您放心。"],["林委員楚茵：我可以讓給付處羅處長來講一下，現在的情況是怎麼樣？剛剛我所說的建議，可不可能研擬？可不可以執行？或是其實已經在法律上……因為我們知道一般納稅人在收到納稅通知書的時候，其實這就是一個催繳的行為，整個法律行動就已經開始了。如果稅捐單位認為他有可能會逃稅，它可以做一些行政處分作為，避免他脫產等等。對於這些同樣犯罪而且判刑確定的軍官來講，因為他知道過去的這些退休俸必須要被追回，後續有沒有可能可以有更多類似這樣的行政處分？"],["羅處長馬可：委員好，我是退除給付處處長。因為違反國安法，退除給與一定會重新審定，審定之後我們也會去收繳。但是我們會裡頭的時間是30天，收繳沒有收回來就進行強制執行，這一段我們會移送法務部，也會依照行政執行法的相關規定，把相關的書表，包括處分書以及財產資料送行政執行署執行。同時每年在所得稅申報完畢之後，在7、8月我們還會去函查追蹤，確實把這個債權做一個處理，請委員放心。"],["林委員楚茵：那麼有相關處理的後續，也麻煩您給我一個進度的報告。"],["羅處長馬可：是。"],["林委員楚茵：那麼是不是可以有更積極的作為或是一些行政手段，也麻煩你們再給我們一個報告，好不好？"],["羅處長馬可：是。"],["主席：謝謝林楚茵委員，主委、處長請回。","接下來進行詢答的委員是羅美玲委員。"]],"agenda":{"page_end":382,"meet_id":"委員會-11-1-35-2","speakers":["王定宇","沈伯洋","林楚茵","羅美玲","黃仁","陳永康","徐巧芯","洪申翰","陳冠廷","馬文君","楊瓊瓔","林憶君","謝衣鳯"],"page_start":329,"meetingDate":["2024-03-06"],"gazette_id":"1130601","agenda_lcidc_ids":["1130601_00011"],"meet_name":"立法院第11屆第1會期外交及國防委員會第2次全體委員會議紀錄","content":"邀請國軍退除役官兵輔導委員會主任委員馮世寬報告業務概況，並備質詢","agenda_id":"1130601_00010"}},"transcript":{"id":"149338","pyannote":{"name":"ronny","tool":"pyannote","data":{"url":"https://ivod.ly.gov.tw/Play/Clip/1M/149338","tool":"pyannote","id":"149338-pyannote"},"job_id":"SEqEEnVq8hoeUVhf","queued_at":"2024-06-02 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\"委\", \"start\": 469.299, \"end\": 469.319, \"score\": 0.0}, {\"word\": \"員\"}, {\"word\": \"會\"}, {\"word\": \"林\", \"start\": 495.103, \"end\": 495.283, \"score\": 0.889}, {\"word\": \"楚\", \"start\": 495.283, \"end\": 495.483, \"score\": 0.9}, {\"word\": \"茵\", \"start\": 495.483, \"end\": 495.583, \"score\": 0.8}, {\"word\": \"委\", \"start\": 495.583, \"end\": 495.603, \"score\": 0.0}, {\"word\": \"員\"}], \"language\": \"zh\"}","srt":"1\n00:00:00,690 --> 00:00:03,212\n謝謝主席主席有請馮主委來馮主委請委員長\n\n2\n00:00:11,721 --> 00:00:30,397\n主委早安剛剛我非常仔細的聆聽了你的業務報告包括了這些書面的內容那麼因為本席自己的弟弟也是空軍的退伍的軍官所以說我知道退輔會對於退休的軍人以及他的家屬們的照料包括您所寫的不論是長照醫療\n\n3\n00:00:31,778 --> 00:00:32,398\n我稍微念一下\n\n4\n00:00:54,192 --> 00:01:20,994\n以第一個三個退休軍官收錢當供諜國安法有罪然後他已經定驗他所做的破壞行為也許是少數的害群芝麻就像您剛剛所說的可是我念一下他是收取為中國從事發展組織勤收刺探軍情之外包括我們的兵力助手報告還有我們南沙太平洋工作的報告這是第一個案例他所做的事情\n\n5\n00:01:21,434 --> 00:01:50,854\n你要知道他退休了領著退休鳳拿著國家對他未來退休所給予的部分但是他傷害的是現役的軍人我想主委您過去也擔過國防部長您知道像這種情資洩漏不只是發展組織是情資洩漏對於現役的傷害是非常大的這三個案例您瞭解嗎您知道嗎因為他都是退伍退休之後所發生的事情\n\n6\n00:01:52,691 --> 00:02:15,538\n報告委員當國防部長的時候這些案例我個人都了解因為這個是我個人管轄的業務之一而且我個人非常贊成要重罰而且也要重賞提供這些資料的人要重賞\n\n7\n00:02:17,466 --> 00:02:42,514\n參與這些不法行動的人要重罰我個人絕對是如此贊成而且給您報告規定要處分的要把他的薪資收回的我們執行的幾乎百分之百您確定嗎是因為根據我們2019年所修正的國安法當中就是要繳回退休奉所以您知道現在有多少的軍官被\n\n8\n00:02:43,755 --> 00:02:44,175\n法定人數不足\n\n9\n00:03:01,277 --> 00:03:03,279\n您滿意這個處理的進度嗎這個我不會滿意但是我想跟您報告這個中間14個人中間\n\n10\n00:03:29,199 --> 00:03:32,704\n我所留列的這14位當中請大家也可以也請主委看一下\n\n11\n00:03:43,075 --> 00:03:58,448\n這些都是定驗但定驗之後他們會做一個就是所謂行政救濟這樣的一個過程但是大家來看一下其中有4位返還是0元那到底是完全沒有執行還是他已經\n\n12\n00:03:59,768 --> 00:04:13,711\n脫產無法執行我當然知道有兩個包括這位張上孝跟陳忠孝因為他還在救濟當中但是在救濟當中的其他的人呢還有像這位鄭信忠孝才追回21塊我要讓您來看的是以這個鄭信忠孝來舉例喔\n\n13\n00:04:20,313 --> 00:04:30,382\n他收受中國將近60萬的款項協助中國吸收現役的軍人發展組織這是非常恐怖的行為但是以他110年的9月9號判刑確定到我們來進行追繳有三個月然後呢我們在111年12月12號又進行了一年才\n\n14\n00:04:41,611 --> 00:04:56,590\n送出執行而且執行沒有結果然後在第二次的時候又過了九個月言下之意這過程中有兩年我要講的是在這樣的執行過程中他要脫產他早就已經脫產了\n\n15\n00:04:58,072 --> 00:05:25,339\n那麼他要讓他的戶頭上面做一個所謂的侵害債權的行為也都已經發生了就像您剛剛宣示的您希望能夠重罰或者是追回他的退休奉但是也這中間因為有太多的過程當中是可以讓他有機會脫產以至於前面我們看到的有可能追不回來又可能是他名下沒有財產所以我想問的就是我們可不可能借盡稅捐機關\n\n16\n00:05:28,800 --> 00:05:46,415\n的做法就是在我們稅捐計徵法當中會有一個妥善的行政手段能夠來進行比如說禁止處分做假扣押或者是管收讓他一旦定念之後判刑確定之後不要再給他這麼多的時間來進行脫產有沒有可能演繹\n\n17\n00:05:47,452 --> 00:06:07,189\n報告委員,我們已經把6個人共有2700多萬的因繳納的金額這些人員送法務部執勤收繳,這個我們已經做到了而且我們已經停縫,讓這些人都拉不到後面的退休縫\n\n18\n00:06:08,010 --> 00:06:30,498\n因為已經修法了所以我想問您的就是那在這個14個人當中還有將近4千萬沒有返還的過程當中現在決定如何處理那會不會有可能就是因為時間拖得久了就讓他完全脫產也拿不回來以我目前這樣的一個數據喔我想其實大家最想知道的是不是真的有將近4千萬的退休碰是沒有追回來的在這14個人當中\n\n19\n00:06:33,409 --> 00:06:34,413\n您的統計並沒有錯,應繳的就是4000多萬\n\n20\n00:06:38,615 --> 00:07:05,195\n那麼這些人做如何的處理等等的我們會繼續的去追查而且我們一定會站在國家一定的法律面來執行請您放心我可以讓這個幾副處的處長羅處長您來講一下現在的情況是怎麼樣那麼剛剛我所說的這個建議當中可不可能言你可不可以執行或是其實已經在反上因為我們知道一般的納稅人他在收到這個納稅\n\n21\n00:07:06,556 --> 00:07:13,899\n通知書的時候其實這個就是一個催角的行為這整個法律的行動就已經開始了如果說稅捐單位認為他有可能會逃稅的時候他可以做一些行政處分的作為避免他脫產等等那麼對於這些同樣犯罪而且判刑確定的軍官來講因為他知道他必須要有過去的退休分要追回有沒有可能我們接下來後續是可以有降更多的行政處分\n\n22\n00:07:36,769 --> 00:07:43,710\n委員好我是退除役副處的處長跟委員報告那有關於這個國防部只要他因為\n\n23\n00:07:44,258 --> 00:07:49,319\n委員會主任委員會主任委員會主任委員會主任委員會主任委員會主任委員會主任委員會主任委員會主任委員會主任委員會主任委員會主任委員會主任委員會主任委員會主任委員會\n\n24\n00:08:15,103 --> 00:08:15,603\n林楚茵委員\n\n","tsv":"start\tend\ttext\n690\t3212\t謝謝主席主席有請馮主委來馮主委請委員長\n11721\t30397\t主委早安剛剛我非常仔細的聆聽了你的業務報告包括了這些書面的內容那麼因為本席自己的弟弟也是空軍的退伍的軍官所以說我知道退輔會對於退休的軍人以及他的家屬們的照料包括您所寫的不論是長照醫療\n31778\t32398\t我稍微念一下\n54192\t80994\t以第一個三個退休軍官收錢當供諜國安法有罪然後他已經定驗他所做的破壞行為也許是少數的害群芝麻就像您剛剛所說的可是我念一下他是收取為中國從事發展組織勤收刺探軍情之外包括我們的兵力助手報告還有我們南沙太平洋工作的報告這是第一個案例他所做的事情\n81434\t110854\t你要知道他退休了領著退休鳳拿著國家對他未來退休所給予的部分但是他傷害的是現役的軍人我想主委您過去也擔過國防部長您知道像這種情資洩漏不只是發展組織是情資洩漏對於現役的傷害是非常大的這三個案例您瞭解嗎您知道嗎因為他都是退伍退休之後所發生的事情\n112691\t135538\t報告委員當國防部長的時候這些案例我個人都了解因為這個是我個人管轄的業務之一而且我個人非常贊成要重罰而且也要重賞提供這些資料的人要重賞\n137466\t162514\t參與這些不法行動的人要重罰我個人絕對是如此贊成而且給您報告規定要處分的要把他的薪資收回的我們執行的幾乎百分之百您確定嗎是因為根據我們2019年所修正的國安法當中就是要繳回退休奉所以您知道現在有多少的軍官被\n163755\t164175\t法定人數不足\n181277\t183279\t您滿意這個處理的進度嗎這個我不會滿意但是我想跟您報告這個中間14個人中間\n209199\t212704\t我所留列的這14位當中請大家也可以也請主委看一下\n223075\t238448\t這些都是定驗但定驗之後他們會做一個就是所謂行政救濟這樣的一個過程但是大家來看一下其中有4位返還是0元那到底是完全沒有執行還是他已經\n239768\t253711\t脫產無法執行我當然知道有兩個包括這位張上孝跟陳忠孝因為他還在救濟當中但是在救濟當中的其他的人呢還有像這位鄭信忠孝才追回21塊我要讓您來看的是以這個鄭信忠孝來舉例喔\n260313\t270382\t他收受中國將近60萬的款項協助中國吸收現役的軍人發展組織這是非常恐怖的行為但是以他110年的9月9號判刑確定到我們來進行追繳有三個月然後呢我們在111年12月12號又進行了一年才\n281611\t296590\t送出執行而且執行沒有結果然後在第二次的時候又過了九個月言下之意這過程中有兩年我要講的是在這樣的執行過程中他要脫產他早就已經脫產了\n298072\t325339\t那麼他要讓他的戶頭上面做一個所謂的侵害債權的行為也都已經發生了就像您剛剛宣示的您希望能夠重罰或者是追回他的退休奉但是也這中間因為有太多的過程當中是可以讓他有機會脫產以至於前面我們看到的有可能追不回來又可能是他名下沒有財產所以我想問的就是我們可不可能借盡稅捐機關\n328800\t346415\t的做法就是在我們稅捐計徵法當中會有一個妥善的行政手段能夠來進行比如說禁止處分做假扣押或者是管收讓他一旦定念之後判刑確定之後不要再給他這麼多的時間來進行脫產有沒有可能演繹\n347452\t367189\t報告委員,我們已經把6個人共有2700多萬的因繳納的金額這些人員送法務部執勤收繳,這個我們已經做到了而且我們已經停縫,讓這些人都拉不到後面的退休縫\n368010\t390498\t因為已經修法了所以我想問您的就是那在這個14個人當中還有將近4千萬沒有返還的過程當中現在決定如何處理那會不會有可能就是因為時間拖得久了就讓他完全脫產也拿不回來以我目前這樣的一個數據喔我想其實大家最想知道的是不是真的有將近4千萬的退休碰是沒有追回來的在這14個人當中\n393409\t394413\t您的統計並沒有錯,應繳的就是4000多萬\n398615\t425195\t那麼這些人做如何的處理等等的我們會繼續的去追查而且我們一定會站在國家一定的法律面來執行請您放心我可以讓這個幾副處的處長羅處長您來講一下現在的情況是怎麼樣那麼剛剛我所說的這個建議當中可不可能言你可不可以執行或是其實已經在反上因為我們知道一般的納稅人他在收到這個納稅\n426556\t433899\t通知書的時候其實這個就是一個催角的行為這整個法律的行動就已經開始了如果說稅捐單位認為他有可能會逃稅的時候他可以做一些行政處分的作為避免他脫產等等那麼對於這些同樣犯罪而且判刑確定的軍官來講因為他知道他必須要有過去的退休分要追回有沒有可能我們接下來後續是可以有降更多的行政處分\n456769\t463710\t委員好我是退除役副處的處長跟委員報告那有關於這個國防部只要他因為\n464258\t469319\t委員會主任委員會主任委員會主任委員會主任委員會主任委員會主任委員會主任委員會主任委員會主任委員會主任委員會主任委員會主任委員會主任委員會主任委員會主任委員會\n495103\t495603\t林楚茵委員\n","txt":"謝謝主席主席有請馮主委來馮主委請委員長\n主委早安剛剛我非常仔細的聆聽了你的業務報告包括了這些書面的內容那麼因為本席自己的弟弟也是空軍的退伍的軍官所以說我知道退輔會對於退休的軍人以及他的家屬們的照料包括您所寫的不論是長照醫療\n我稍微念一下\n以第一個三個退休軍官收錢當供諜國安法有罪然後他已經定驗他所做的破壞行為也許是少數的害群芝麻就像您剛剛所說的可是我念一下他是收取為中國從事發展組織勤收刺探軍情之外包括我們的兵力助手報告還有我們南沙太平洋工作的報告這是第一個案例他所做的事情\n你要知道他退休了領著退休鳳拿著國家對他未來退休所給予的部分但是他傷害的是現役的軍人我想主委您過去也擔過國防部長您知道像這種情資洩漏不只是發展組織是情資洩漏對於現役的傷害是非常大的這三個案例您瞭解嗎您知道嗎因為他都是退伍退休之後所發生的事情\n報告委員當國防部長的時候這些案例我個人都了解因為這個是我個人管轄的業務之一而且我個人非常贊成要重罰而且也要重賞提供這些資料的人要重賞\n參與這些不法行動的人要重罰我個人絕對是如此贊成而且給您報告規定要處分的要把他的薪資收回的我們執行的幾乎百分之百您確定嗎是因為根據我們2019年所修正的國安法當中就是要繳回退休奉所以您知道現在有多少的軍官被\n法定人數不足\n您滿意這個處理的進度嗎這個我不會滿意但是我想跟您報告這個中間14個人中間\n我所留列的這14位當中請大家也可以也請主委看一下\n這些都是定驗但定驗之後他們會做一個就是所謂行政救濟這樣的一個過程但是大家來看一下其中有4位返還是0元那到底是完全沒有執行還是他已經\n脫產無法執行我當然知道有兩個包括這位張上孝跟陳忠孝因為他還在救濟當中但是在救濟當中的其他的人呢還有像這位鄭信忠孝才追回21塊我要讓您來看的是以這個鄭信忠孝來舉例喔\n他收受中國將近60萬的款項協助中國吸收現役的軍人發展組織這是非常恐怖的行為但是以他110年的9月9號判刑確定到我們來進行追繳有三個月然後呢我們在111年12月12號又進行了一年才\n送出執行而且執行沒有結果然後在第二次的時候又過了九個月言下之意這過程中有兩年我要講的是在這樣的執行過程中他要脫產他早就已經脫產了\n那麼他要讓他的戶頭上面做一個所謂的侵害債權的行為也都已經發生了就像您剛剛宣示的您希望能夠重罰或者是追回他的退休奉但是也這中間因為有太多的過程當中是可以讓他有機會脫產以至於前面我們看到的有可能追不回來又可能是他名下沒有財產所以我想問的就是我們可不可能借盡稅捐機關\n的做法就是在我們稅捐計徵法當中會有一個妥善的行政手段能夠來進行比如說禁止處分做假扣押或者是管收讓他一旦定念之後判刑確定之後不要再給他這麼多的時間來進行脫產有沒有可能演繹\n報告委員,我們已經把6個人共有2700多萬的因繳納的金額這些人員送法務部執勤收繳,這個我們已經做到了而且我們已經停縫,讓這些人都拉不到後面的退休縫\n因為已經修法了所以我想問您的就是那在這個14個人當中還有將近4千萬沒有返還的過程當中現在決定如何處理那會不會有可能就是因為時間拖得久了就讓他完全脫產也拿不回來以我目前這樣的一個數據喔我想其實大家最想知道的是不是真的有將近4千萬的退休碰是沒有追回來的在這14個人當中\n您的統計並沒有錯,應繳的就是4000多萬\n那麼這些人做如何的處理等等的我們會繼續的去追查而且我們一定會站在國家一定的法律面來執行請您放心我可以讓這個幾副處的處長羅處長您來講一下現在的情況是怎麼樣那麼剛剛我所說的這個建議當中可不可能言你可不可以執行或是其實已經在反上因為我們知道一般的納稅人他在收到這個納稅\n通知書的時候其實這個就是一個催角的行為這整個法律的行動就已經開始了如果說稅捐單位認為他有可能會逃稅的時候他可以做一些行政處分的作為避免他脫產等等那麼對於這些同樣犯罪而且判刑確定的軍官來講因為他知道他必須要有過去的退休分要追回有沒有可能我們接下來後續是可以有降更多的行政處分\n委員好我是退除役副處的處長跟委員報告那有關於這個國防部只要他因為\n委員會主任委員會主任委員會主任委員會主任委員會主任委員會主任委員會主任委員會主任委員會主任委員會主任委員會主任委員會主任委員會主任委員會主任委員會主任委員會\n林楚茵委員\n","vtt":"WEBVTT\n\n00:00.690 --> 00:03.212\n謝謝主席主席有請馮主委來馮主委請委員長\n\n00:11.721 --> 00:30.397\n主委早安剛剛我非常仔細的聆聽了你的業務報告包括了這些書面的內容那麼因為本席自己的弟弟也是空軍的退伍的軍官所以說我知道退輔會對於退休的軍人以及他的家屬們的照料包括您所寫的不論是長照醫療\n\n00:31.778 --> 00:32.398\n我稍微念一下\n\n00:54.192 --> 01:20.994\n以第一個三個退休軍官收錢當供諜國安法有罪然後他已經定驗他所做的破壞行為也許是少數的害群芝麻就像您剛剛所說的可是我念一下他是收取為中國從事發展組織勤收刺探軍情之外包括我們的兵力助手報告還有我們南沙太平洋工作的報告這是第一個案例他所做的事情\n\n01:21.434 --> 01:50.854\n你要知道他退休了領著退休鳳拿著國家對他未來退休所給予的部分但是他傷害的是現役的軍人我想主委您過去也擔過國防部長您知道像這種情資洩漏不只是發展組織是情資洩漏對於現役的傷害是非常大的這三個案例您瞭解嗎您知道嗎因為他都是退伍退休之後所發生的事情\n\n01:52.691 --> 02:15.538\n報告委員當國防部長的時候這些案例我個人都了解因為這個是我個人管轄的業務之一而且我個人非常贊成要重罰而且也要重賞提供這些資料的人要重賞\n\n02:17.466 --> 02:42.514\n參與這些不法行動的人要重罰我個人絕對是如此贊成而且給您報告規定要處分的要把他的薪資收回的我們執行的幾乎百分之百您確定嗎是因為根據我們2019年所修正的國安法當中就是要繳回退休奉所以您知道現在有多少的軍官被\n\n02:43.755 --> 02:44.175\n法定人數不足\n\n03:01.277 --> 03:03.279\n您滿意這個處理的進度嗎這個我不會滿意但是我想跟您報告這個中間14個人中間\n\n03:29.199 --> 03:32.704\n我所留列的這14位當中請大家也可以也請主委看一下\n\n03:43.075 --> 03:58.448\n這些都是定驗但定驗之後他們會做一個就是所謂行政救濟這樣的一個過程但是大家來看一下其中有4位返還是0元那到底是完全沒有執行還是他已經\n\n03:59.768 --> 04:13.711\n脫產無法執行我當然知道有兩個包括這位張上孝跟陳忠孝因為他還在救濟當中但是在救濟當中的其他的人呢還有像這位鄭信忠孝才追回21塊我要讓您來看的是以這個鄭信忠孝來舉例喔\n\n04:20.313 --> 04:30.382\n他收受中國將近60萬的款項協助中國吸收現役的軍人發展組織這是非常恐怖的行為但是以他110年的9月9號判刑確定到我們來進行追繳有三個月然後呢我們在111年12月12號又進行了一年才\n\n04:41.611 --> 04:56.590\n送出執行而且執行沒有結果然後在第二次的時候又過了九個月言下之意這過程中有兩年我要講的是在這樣的執行過程中他要脫產他早就已經脫產了\n\n04:58.072 --> 05:25.339\n那麼他要讓他的戶頭上面做一個所謂的侵害債權的行為也都已經發生了就像您剛剛宣示的您希望能夠重罰或者是追回他的退休奉但是也這中間因為有太多的過程當中是可以讓他有機會脫產以至於前面我們看到的有可能追不回來又可能是他名下沒有財產所以我想問的就是我們可不可能借盡稅捐機關\n\n05:28.800 --> 05:46.415\n的做法就是在我們稅捐計徵法當中會有一個妥善的行政手段能夠來進行比如說禁止處分做假扣押或者是管收讓他一旦定念之後判刑確定之後不要再給他這麼多的時間來進行脫產有沒有可能演繹\n\n05:47.452 --> 06:07.189\n報告委員,我們已經把6個人共有2700多萬的因繳納的金額這些人員送法務部執勤收繳,這個我們已經做到了而且我們已經停縫,讓這些人都拉不到後面的退休縫\n\n06:08.010 --> 06:30.498\n因為已經修法了所以我想問您的就是那在這個14個人當中還有將近4千萬沒有返還的過程當中現在決定如何處理那會不會有可能就是因為時間拖得久了就讓他完全脫產也拿不回來以我目前這樣的一個數據喔我想其實大家最想知道的是不是真的有將近4千萬的退休碰是沒有追回來的在這14個人當中\n\n06:33.409 --> 06:34.413\n您的統計並沒有錯,應繳的就是4000多萬\n\n06:38.615 --> 07:05.195\n那麼這些人做如何的處理等等的我們會繼續的去追查而且我們一定會站在國家一定的法律面來執行請您放心我可以讓這個幾副處的處長羅處長您來講一下現在的情況是怎麼樣那麼剛剛我所說的這個建議當中可不可能言你可不可以執行或是其實已經在反上因為我們知道一般的納稅人他在收到這個納稅\n\n07:06.556 --> 07:13.899\n通知書的時候其實這個就是一個催角的行為這整個法律的行動就已經開始了如果說稅捐單位認為他有可能會逃稅的時候他可以做一些行政處分的作為避免他脫產等等那麼對於這些同樣犯罪而且判刑確定的軍官來講因為他知道他必須要有過去的退休分要追回有沒有可能我們接下來後續是可以有降更多的行政處分\n\n07:36.769 --> 07:43.710\n委員好我是退除役副處的處長跟委員報告那有關於這個國防部只要他因為\n\n07:44.258 --> 07:49.319\n委員會主任委員會主任委員會主任委員會主任委員會主任委員會主任委員會主任委員會主任委員會主任委員會主任委員會主任委員會主任委員會主任委員會主任委員會主任委員會\n\n08:15.103 --> 08:15.603\n林楚茵委員\n\n","segments":[{"start":0.69,"end":3.212,"text":"謝謝主席主席有請馮主委來馮主委請委員長"},{"start":11.721,"end":30.397,"text":"主委早安剛剛我非常仔細的聆聽了你的業務報告包括了這些書面的內容那麼因為本席自己的弟弟也是空軍的退伍的軍官所以說我知道退輔會對於退休的軍人以及他的家屬們的照料包括您所寫的不論是長照醫療"},{"start":31.778,"end":32.398,"text":"我稍微念一下"},{"start":54.192,"end":80.994,"text":"以第一個三個退休軍官收錢當供諜國安法有罪然後他已經定驗他所做的破壞行為也許是少數的害群芝麻就像您剛剛所說的可是我念一下他是收取為中國從事發展組織勤收刺探軍情之外包括我們的兵力助手報告還有我們南沙太平洋工作的報告這是第一個案例他所做的事情"},{"start":81.434,"end":110.854,"text":"你要知道他退休了領著退休鳳拿著國家對他未來退休所給予的部分但是他傷害的是現役的軍人我想主委您過去也擔過國防部長您知道像這種情資洩漏不只是發展組織是情資洩漏對於現役的傷害是非常大的這三個案例您瞭解嗎您知道嗎因為他都是退伍退休之後所發生的事情"},{"start":112.691,"end":135.538,"text":"報告委員當國防部長的時候這些案例我個人都了解因為這個是我個人管轄的業務之一而且我個人非常贊成要重罰而且也要重賞提供這些資料的人要重賞"},{"start":137.466,"end":162.514,"text":"參與這些不法行動的人要重罰我個人絕對是如此贊成而且給您報告規定要處分的要把他的薪資收回的我們執行的幾乎百分之百您確定嗎是因為根據我們2019年所修正的國安法當中就是要繳回退休奉所以您知道現在有多少的軍官被"},{"start":163.755,"end":164.175,"text":"法定人數不足"},{"start":181.277,"end":183.279,"text":"您滿意這個處理的進度嗎這個我不會滿意但是我想跟您報告這個中間14個人中間"},{"start":209.199,"end":212.704,"text":"我所留列的這14位當中請大家也可以也請主委看一下"},{"start":223.075,"end":238.448,"text":"這些都是定驗但定驗之後他們會做一個就是所謂行政救濟這樣的一個過程但是大家來看一下其中有4位返還是0元那到底是完全沒有執行還是他已經"},{"start":239.768,"end":253.711,"text":"脫產無法執行我當然知道有兩個包括這位張上孝跟陳忠孝因為他還在救濟當中但是在救濟當中的其他的人呢還有像這位鄭信忠孝才追回21塊我要讓您來看的是以這個鄭信忠孝來舉例喔"},{"start":260.313,"end":270.382,"text":"他收受中國將近60萬的款項協助中國吸收現役的軍人發展組織這是非常恐怖的行為但是以他110年的9月9號判刑確定到我們來進行追繳有三個月然後呢我們在111年12月12號又進行了一年才"},{"start":281.611,"end":296.59,"text":"送出執行而且執行沒有結果然後在第二次的時候又過了九個月言下之意這過程中有兩年我要講的是在這樣的執行過程中他要脫產他早就已經脫產了"},{"start":298.072,"end":325.339,"text":"那麼他要讓他的戶頭上面做一個所謂的侵害債權的行為也都已經發生了就像您剛剛宣示的您希望能夠重罰或者是追回他的退休奉但是也這中間因為有太多的過程當中是可以讓他有機會脫產以至於前面我們看到的有可能追不回來又可能是他名下沒有財產所以我想問的就是我們可不可能借盡稅捐機關"},{"start":328.8,"end":346.415,"text":"的做法就是在我們稅捐計徵法當中會有一個妥善的行政手段能夠來進行比如說禁止處分做假扣押或者是管收讓他一旦定念之後判刑確定之後不要再給他這麼多的時間來進行脫產有沒有可能演繹"},{"start":347.452,"end":367.189,"text":"報告委員,我們已經把6個人共有2700多萬的因繳納的金額這些人員送法務部執勤收繳,這個我們已經做到了而且我們已經停縫,讓這些人都拉不到後面的退休縫"},{"start":368.01,"end":390.498,"text":"因為已經修法了所以我想問您的就是那在這個14個人當中還有將近4千萬沒有返還的過程當中現在決定如何處理那會不會有可能就是因為時間拖得久了就讓他完全脫產也拿不回來以我目前這樣的一個數據喔我想其實大家最想知道的是不是真的有將近4千萬的退休碰是沒有追回來的在這14個人當中"},{"start":393.409,"end":394.413,"text":"您的統計並沒有錯,應繳的就是4000多萬"},{"start":398.615,"end":425.195,"text":"那麼這些人做如何的處理等等的我們會繼續的去追查而且我們一定會站在國家一定的法律面來執行請您放心我可以讓這個幾副處的處長羅處長您來講一下現在的情況是怎麼樣那麼剛剛我所說的這個建議當中可不可能言你可不可以執行或是其實已經在反上因為我們知道一般的納稅人他在收到這個納稅"},{"start":426.556,"end":433.899,"text":"通知書的時候其實這個就是一個催角的行為這整個法律的行動就已經開始了如果說稅捐單位認為他有可能會逃稅的時候他可以做一些行政處分的作為避免他脫產等等那麼對於這些同樣犯罪而且判刑確定的軍官來講因為他知道他必須要有過去的退休分要追回有沒有可能我們接下來後續是可以有降更多的行政處分"},{"start":456.769,"end":463.71,"text":"委員好我是退除役副處的處長跟委員報告那有關於這個國防部只要他因為"},{"start":464.258,"end":469.319,"text":"委員會主任委員會主任委員會主任委員會主任委員會主任委員會主任委員會主任委員會主任委員會主任委員會主任委員會主任委員會主任委員會主任委員會主任委員會主任委員會"},{"start":495.103,"end":495.603,"text":"林楚茵委員"}]}}}}