{"id":149342,"url":"https://ivod.ly.gov.tw/Play/Clip/1M/149342","video_url":"https://ivod-lyvod.cdn.hinet.net/vod_1/_definst_/mp4:1MClips/aa454a369d2b172f7b626dcaa9f9fc463ce99dc43694a3e0f8ba9b0039caa7a6ce9353d49d344a8e5ea18f28b6918d91.mp4/playlist.m3u8","委員名稱":"莊瑞雄","委員發言時間":"09:55:01 - 10:08:49","影片長度":"00:13:48","會議時間":"2024-03-06T09:00:00+08:00","會議名稱":"立法院第11屆第1會期司法及法制委員會第3次全體委員會議（事由：邀請行政院人事行政總處人事長列席報告業務概況及立法計畫，並備質詢。）","meet":{"tmpMeeting":null,"title":"第11屆第1會期司法及法制委員會第3次全體委員會議","term":11,"type":"委員會","sessionPeriod":1,"sessionTimes":3,"committees":[36],"id":"委員會-11-1-36-3"},"date":"2024-03-06","duration":828,"end_time":"2024-03-06T10:08:49+08:00","start_time":"2024-03-06T09:55:01+08:00","features":["ai-transcript","gazette"],"type":"Clip","gazette":{"lineno":316,"blocks":[["莊委員瑞雄：（9時55分）謝謝主席。人事長，延續剛剛陳委員的一些問題，我再來追問一下，就是五一勞動節到底公務人員要不要放假的這個問題啦，我相信整個公務人員要不要放假的決定，其實是目的事業主管機關，也就是你們的權責嘛！"],["蘇人事長俊榮：我向委員報告，紀念日及節日實施辦法的主管機關是內政部。"],["莊委員瑞雄：我知道啦，那等於是……"],["蘇人事長俊榮：他們那裡是源頭，他們源頭修改了……"],["莊委員瑞雄：紀念日及節日實施辦法當然是內政部啦，其實這個問題是必考題，每一年大家都會問，去年在討論這個問題的時候，你們的回應就是由內政部去研究，就是你剛剛所說的紀念日及節日實施辦法，其實委員版本來想要把它提升到法的位階，但是後來並沒有出委員會，這個大家也不用互相騙啦！但是內政部這邊的講法就是希望你們可以出面說明，但是你們說的都太複雜了，你們去年的說法也是內政部去研議，每年都這樣說，請問有什麼進度嗎？你們有提供什麼見解給內政部嗎？我覺得這才是重點啦！你看以前討論兒童節要不要放假也一樣啊，後來也討論到兒童放假在家要由誰來照顧等等問題，最後就說因為跟4月5號清明節接近，可以連在一起，就找了這個理由，最後就一起放假了，所以其實還是有辦法啦。我今天特別提出五一勞動節的這個問題，就是目前不管是聘用人員還是約僱人員，都是跟公務人員都一樣，適用勞動基準法就等於是公法上的一個契約，所以大部分就是沒有辦法在五一勞動節來放假，我來舉二個例子，譬如說一個單位裡面同時有公務人員、約聘人員及派遣性質的臨時人員，遇到勞動節的時候就會很麻煩了，是不是這樣？政府部門……"],["蘇人事長俊榮：有些適用勞基法，有些適用公務人員服務法，適用勞基法的就有放假啊！"],["莊委員瑞雄：這都是有讀書的人在說的啦！這都是讀書人在跟人家說理論的啦！但是一般人、在工作的人就會認為同樣在一間辦公室裡面工作，你跟我說法令什麼的，有人適用這個法、有人適用那個法，現在我跟你說的就是一間辦公室裡面的情形，你不要說什麼啦，光是中央跟地方的這些公職人員，立委也好、議員也好，他們的幕僚、助理也都適用勞基法嘛，不是這樣嗎？以我自己的情況來說，遇到五一他們都爽得要死，因為我都讓他們放假啊，但問題是立法院裡面要運作啊，議會有的要運作啊，老闆上班但助理都不用上班，也確實好奇怪啦！我的意思是說，基本上其實這些幕僚應該都是配合著公家單位的作息時間啦，大家一起工作就工作、休息就休息啦，所以大部分都沒辦法放假啦。其實這些人也都是為這個社會在付出，但是都被勞動節給遺忘掉了，其實我也很清楚有非常大的困難就是在於教職人員的部分，如果老師放假，那學生要怎麼辦？問題又來了，又遇到這個問題了，就變成如果大人要放假，小孩不知道要怎麼辦，如果小孩要放假，大人不知道要怎麼辦，最後就乾脆都一起放假了。這次是遇到大人的部分，但是在這樣的雙重考量之下，你們到最後一定又一樣是把這個全國性的問題踢回給內政部了啦！"],["蘇人事長俊榮：我們不是踢回去給內政部，他是「爐主」啊！"],["莊委員瑞雄：他是「爐主」沒有錯，但是對於公務人員的部分、公家機關的部分，你們可以有你們的態度啊！所以這整個就變成內政部要去修紀念日及節日實施辦法，在第五條第二項的地方直接將勞動節比照兒童節模式，全部都放假一天，可以嗎？你的態度如何？"],["蘇人事長俊榮：我的態度跟委員一樣啦。"],["莊委員瑞雄：對啦。"],["蘇人事長俊榮：這樣可以吧？"],["莊委員瑞雄：這樣就應該對了，但是要講清楚一點，你不能這樣講啦！"],["蘇人事長俊榮：我的態度跟你的一樣。"],["莊委員瑞雄：你不可以說跟我一樣，你完整敘述一下。"],["蘇人事長俊榮：我支持委員的看法。"],["莊委員瑞雄：你要說支持我什麼看法，說得比較完整一點。"],["蘇人事長俊榮：你剛才說得這麼完整，我再說也不可能像你這麼完整。"],["莊委員瑞雄：你厲害，很會做官就是這樣。針對這個問題，我覺得要有一個態度，好不好？不要一間辦公室有的有放、有的沒放，公家機關就常常碰到這個問題。","當然接下來我要問的是，最近你應該也看到金門海域發生海巡弟兄取締三無船舶這件事情，我看他們都是非常盡忠職守，守護我們的海疆。他們的工作其實很多，因為我自己在屏東參選兩次，我現在雖然擔任第四屆的委員，但是前兩次我在選的時候，我的選區面三個海。他們有時候要處理走私、漂流物，還有海洋保育，真的包山包海。你看非洲豬瘟來，那些海巡也要幫忙，看到豬在那裡，海巡就出動了。沒辦法！政府都是把人力用到最極致，也就是他們的工作非常高壓。其實不只是海巡，很多機關都是苦於人力，也不時提出希望增加員額的聲音，我相信蘇人事長也都聽見這樣的聲音。光中央就有那麼多機關都強調人力不足，你們的態度我也很清楚，你們就覺得依據中央機關總員額辦法的精神，政府用人精實是立法意旨，又碰上立法院瘋瘋的，立法院有時候會叫你們不能浪費、機關要精簡等等，理論上都對。基於政府用人精實的立法意旨，你們現在人力優先調整都在司法、邊境管理、教育、環保、矯正、檢察、社會跟交通運輸業務，今年預計22萬人。但是你們一直強調行政院組織員額相對減少1.2萬，變成是精簡5.3%。在人力配置精簡之下，我們也看到從疫情前2019到2022年的統計，2019年臨時人員跟派遣勞工人數七千多人，2020年到2021年疫情嚴重期間臨時人員跟派遣勞工分別是9,073人跟6,644人。可是在疫情趨緩後的2022年臨時人員仍有6,613人，表示採取約聘僱的方式來支撐國家公務體系還是常態，會不會引發大家一直在講的同工不同酬？雖然你們有看到這個問題，但還是繼續進用。"],["蘇人事長俊榮：剛才委員說的臨時人員是有階段性的。例如這件事情有一個階段性的，大概2年到3年，我們就用臨時的人力。因為你也知道公務人員的保障，如果考試錄取進來一定要繼續用。但是政府的工作有些具有階段性，比如業務的尖鋒導致現有人力編制不足，用臨時人力來補的概念。"],["莊委員瑞雄：所以還是無解？結論就是無解。"],["蘇人事長俊榮：這一塊我們都有在控制，而且我們有控制在5%以內。"],["莊委員瑞雄：所以那幾趴就是要忍受，你要這一份工作，本來就是要接受同工不同酬？我覺得有時候工作做的都一樣，當然涉及到身分保障的問題，還有進用的方式不同，但還是儘量要去克服這方面，這個確實都討論那麼久了！","我最後要請教一個問題，520新的總統要上任了，他的政見裡面有一項就是要成立體育運動發展部，對吧？你也很清楚，此舉當然是為體育業挹注更多的幫助。體育署以前是體委會，後來在馬政府時代降為體育署。部是政策制定執行的縱向機關，委員會當然是一個政策協調統合的橫向機關。就本席來看，要提升主管體育事務層級的組織變動有三條路：第一、最高的當然就是新的部會；第二、不然就跟其他部會合併，比如韓國現在文化、觀光、體育三個合一取代其他降編的部會；第三、恢復到像過去那樣，但不太可能。我要請教你，以你專業的經驗分析來看，過去像國科會變成科技部，但是後來又變成國科會，哪一種方式除了最能夠提升體育運動事務的支持以外，也最符合組織基準法提升施政效能的立法意旨？"],["蘇人事長俊榮：我覺得要從兩個角度來看，第一個就是剛剛委員說的，類似韓國的文化觀光體育部，但是這件事情要國內大家有共識，體育界覺得自己很重要，不要跟文化、觀光合併，有時候溝通的難度滿高的，所以最簡單的就是成立體育部。但是現在在總員額法上限限制的情形下，最好的方式……因為我觀察這幾年我們的體育表現都不錯，主要是資源要多放一點下去。"],["莊委員瑞雄：這當然，一定的啦！我現在問你其實是要引出一個問題，如同農委會升格之後，人員一定增加，體育署升格後變體育部，不管用什麼方式成立一個部，人員一定增加。我怕的是你到時候又用臨時人員、派遣員工的方式來達到整個公務的量能。你們到時候就又用這一招了，會不會？"],["蘇人事長俊榮：這個裡面會牽涉到未來進用人員的專長類型，說真的，體育選手有的是運動員，如果要請他進來體育部服務，他沒有考試的資格。"],["莊委員瑞雄：當然。"],["蘇人事長俊榮：你就要用類似教育人員的方式，看他有沒有教育人員身分，不然就只能以約聘的方式，約聘到最後他就沒辦法當主管，所以我們在規劃新的機關有時候會從不同面向，讓大家綜合考量。"],["莊委員瑞雄：我很擔心。像新的部會、機關、部門成立以後的人員進用達到整個公務的量能，甚至效能，那只是合理的，但是你們要注意，像數位部變成部以後，人手是不是夠？它上路已經一年多，你們有沒有檢討它的人力成效？人力有沒有補足或是應該調整的地方？這些基本的如果沒有做到，做不了什麼事！"],["蘇人事長俊榮：有關數位部，你不信的話，可以問唐部長，我差不多每個月都去問他：「你有需要增加人嗎？」他最近跟我說，他要增加20個做打詐相關業務，因為有些是屬於電商、資安還有打詐的問題。他說初步需要20人，我跟他說先把需求寫一寫，我來支持，是這種方式。你可以去問唐部長，我是主動每個月去問他：「你有需要人嗎？」因為我怕他運作不過來，你知道嗎？我是主動去問，不是他來找我，是我主動去問他：「你有需要嗎？」因為我覺得這樣政府進步才會比較快。"],["莊委員瑞雄：有關五一勞動節，你的態度很明確了，大膽把它表達出來。謝謝。"],["主席：好，謝謝。請下一位鍾佳濱委員發言。"]],"agenda":{"page_end":124,"meet_id":"委員會-11-1-36-3","speakers":["吳宗憲","黃國昌","陳俊宇","沈發惠","謝龍介","莊瑞雄","鍾佳濱","吳思瑤","林思銘","傅崐萁","鄭天財Sra Kacaw","羅智強","謝衣鳯","翁曉玲","楊瓊瓔"],"page_start":77,"meetingDate":["2024-03-06"],"gazette_id":"1130701","agenda_lcidc_ids":["1130701_00003"],"meet_name":"立法院第11屆第1會期司法及法制委員會第3次全體委員會議紀錄","content":"邀請行政院人事行政總處人事長列席報告業務概況及立法計畫，並備質詢","agenda_id":"1130701_00002"}},"transcript":{"id":"149342","pyannote":{"name":"ronny","tool":"pyannote","data":{"url":"https://ivod.ly.gov.tw/Play/Clip/1M/149342","tool":"pyannote","id":"149342-pyannote"},"job_id":"AarnIxWv5HEcunUR","queued_at":"2024-06-02 11:01:08","status":"done","log":[{"time":"2024-06-02 11:01:53","msg":"downloading https://ivod.ly.gov.tw/Play/Clip/1M/149342"},{"time":"2024-06-02 11:01:54","msg":"downloading https://ivod-lyvod.cdn.hinet.net/vod_1/_definst_/mp4:1MClips/aa454a369d2b172f7b626dcaa9f9fc463ce99dc43694a3e026e8f58871d24fed309651a35b1d3f275ea18f28b6918d91.mp4/playlist.m3u8"},{"time":"2024-06-02 11:02:19","msg":"converting mp4 to wav"},{"time":"2024-06-02 11:02:21","msg":"running pyannote"},{"time":"2024-06-02 11:02:33","msg":"status: 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00:01:23,567\n你去年的公判也是在雷正博那裡研議,但是每天都在這樣說,有什麼進度沒有?你有提供什麼見解給雷正博嗎?我覺得這才是重點。以前你看到兒童節要放不放?\n\n5\n00:01:32,486 --> 00:01:32,726\n委員會主席\n\n6\n00:02:00,401 --> 00:02:20,417\n適用勞動基準法這個定義是公法上的一個契約所以大部分就是沒有辦法去用五一勞動節來放假我在記兩個例比如說一個單位裡面的一個同時有公務人員有約聘人員還有派遣訓時的臨時人員你遇到勞動節的時候你就很麻煩了是不是這樣說\n\n7\n00:02:24,394 --> 00:02:30,770\n政府部門的計劃有些不是事用公司有的有的事用公司有的有的有的有的有的有的有的有的\n\n8\n00:02:35,350 --> 00:02:49,075\n這都特色人在講理論的啦一般人在做方塊就是說我都白白在一間辦公室裡面你光跟我說法令什麼的有用嗎有用嗎有用嗎有用嗎有用嗎有用嗎有用嗎有用嗎有用嗎有用嗎有用嗎有用嗎有用嗎有用嗎有用嗎有用嗎有用嗎有用嗎有用嗎有用嗎有用嗎有用嗎有用嗎有用嗎有用嗎有用嗎有用嗎有用嗎有用嗎有用嗎有用嗎有用嗎有用嗎有用嗎有用嗎有用嗎有用嗎有用嗎有用嗎有用嗎有用嗎有用嗎有用嗎有用嗎有用嗎有用嗎有用嗎有用嗎有用嗎有用嗎有用嗎有用嗎有用嗎有用嗎有用嗎有用嗎有用嗎有用嗎有用嗎有用嗎有用嗎有用\n\n9\n00:03:03,263 --> 00:03:04,548\n我那部份我有一齁我會都唱到要死了我去幫啦\n\n10\n00:03:09,766 --> 00:03:33,271\n問題是在立法院裏面要運作啊議會有的要運作啊逃家上班走禮都不用上班的也確實也好奇怪啦也好奇怪啊但是呢我的意思是說基本上齁其實這些幕僚應該來講都是配合著公家單位休息作息時間啦齁因為大家要做工作要休息就休息啦所以每個人都沒辦法啦我們說實在啦\n\n11\n00:03:38,832 --> 00:03:57,371\n其實這些人也都是為這個社會在付出,但是都被勞動節給遺忘掉。那其實我也很清楚,有非常大的困難就是在於你看這個教職人員的部分,老鼠綁,學生沒辦法抓,又來了,又出了這個問題。\n\n12\n00:04:00,094 --> 00:04:01,516\n所以這樣子雙重考量之下,您搞不好一定跟全國性的同樣會再回到內政部\n\n13\n00:04:17,677 --> 00:04:22,618\n內政部就變成說他們去修紀念日跟節日的實施辦法那你從第五條第二項地方直接將勞動節比照兒童節模式你全部都放一天這樣可以嗎\n\n14\n00:04:42,382 --> 00:04:42,823\n委員會主席\n\n15\n00:04:56,243 --> 00:04:59,526\n這個問題我是覺得有一個態度啦好不好,不要一間辦公室,那邊有棒,那邊沒棒\n\n16\n00:05:19,185 --> 00:05:29,262\n這公家機關最常常碰到這個問題那當然接下來我要問的就是說最近應該你也看到了這個金門海域這個山巫船舶這個那海巡的弟兄發生這個事\n\n17\n00:05:33,407 --> 00:05:45,364\n我看他們都是非常的盡忠職守,守護我們的一個海疆,他們的工作其實是很多的,他們的工作多到你看那些有時候因為我平常我自己選兩屆,我稍微順便做個第四屆,但是我選前面那兩屆選的時候,我的選擇是三個海\n\n18\n00:05:50,851 --> 00:05:50,991\n主席\n\n19\n00:06:07,388 --> 00:06:26,493\n沒辦法這個政府的人力我們都是把它用到最極致也就是說他們的工作其實也非常高壓其實不只是海巡很多機關都是苦於這個人力那也不時的提出希望說增加援俄的一個聲音這個我相信市長也都聲音都聽見了\n\n20\n00:06:28,573 --> 00:06:44,863\n那麼多的機關裡面光你們中央那麼多機關都強調人力不足啊那你們的態度我也很清楚啦你就覺得說中央機關是總緣合辦法來精神來對政府用人就是精實的立法的意志又對立法院又笑笑立法院有時候還說你們不能浪費有的沒的機關要精簡理論上都對啦\n\n21\n00:06:52,321 --> 00:07:03,372\n政府用人精實的立法意旨：人力優先調整施法、邊境管理、交易環保、矯正檢查、社會及交通運輸業務今年預計22萬但是你們都一直強調相對行政院組織原額減少1.2萬的金錢\n\n22\n00:07:10,859 --> 00:07:13,261\n臨時人員及派遣勞工分別9073至6644可是在疫情趨緩後的\n\n23\n00:07:38,742 --> 00:07:54,599\n2022年臨時人員6613人這表示你採取的約聘僱的方式來支撐國家公務體系還是一個常態會不會引發大家一直在講的同工不同從你也看到這個問題但是你也繼續用\n\n24\n00:08:00,069 --> 00:08:10,730\n委員報告齁剛才委員齁講的臨時領文大概是會用在那個有改大成的啦你有改大成的工作齁就不會輸\n\n25\n00:08:11,684 --> 00:08:37,185\n這件事有一個階段性的,我就說兩年三年,我們用臨時的,因為公務另外,你也知道葉柏中,他也扣錢進來,一直要繼續用嘛。是啊。但是政府的考慮,維持一個改變性,一個就是業務的清空,現有能力的編制不足,然後用臨時能力來補的概念。所以也是不該?\n\n26\n00:08:40,013 --> 00:08:52,823\n結論就是不該啊這塊我們都有在控制而且我們有控制一個%15%以來啦所以那個幾%裡面你就是要去燃燒你要去賣要去烤肉本來就是要同工不同酬\n\n27\n00:08:54,602 --> 00:09:09,205\n我是覺得有些工作都一樣那當然涉及到身份保障的問題還有進行的方式不同但是還是要盡量去克服這方面這個確實是也都討論了那麼久那我最後一個問題要請教就是說\n\n28\n00:09:10,166 --> 00:09:19,873\n有二領新的總統要上任,他的政見內有一人就是要成立體育運動發展部這你也很清楚,這當然是為體育業藝術更多的一個幫助以前體育署前面變成體育委會,未來是馬政府的首長委\n\n29\n00:09:36,168 --> 00:09:47,539\n部是政策制定執行的一個縱向的機關委員會當然是一個政策協調統合的一個橫向的機關就本席來看提升主管體育事務層級的組織的一個變動才要三條路第一最關鍵當然就是新的部會\n\n30\n00:09:52,524 --> 00:09:52,945\n主席主席主席主席\n\n31\n00:10:09,105 --> 00:10:28,297\n那都不太可能嘛那我要請教你就以你專業的經驗分析來看過去像國科會也變成科技部但是回來又再變成國科會哪一種方式最能夠提升體育運動事務的支持以外也最符合你們組織基準法的提升施政效能的立法意志\n\n32\n00:10:30,300 --> 00:10:46,719\n我是從我那兩個角度來看第一類似韓國的文化觀光體育部但是這件事要國內大家要有共識他就覺得我很重要我不要去跟文化公共合作會\n\n33\n00:10:47,860 --> 00:10:57,849\n要溝通這個有時候溝通的難度蠻高的所以大家想簡單的我就是成立一個體育部但是我覺得現在在總研俄法上線的行政院最好的方式因為我觀察這幾天我們的體育表現都不錯\n\n34\n00:11:11,741 --> 00:11:30,594\n主要就是你的主管要放那麼多下去要放那麼多下去當然啦這一定的我就要問你的其實要引出來的問題其實就是你看嘛那個整個那個農委會升格後人一定增加嘛你現在搞不好你現在去裡面體育部不管你用什麼方式成立一個部你人也一定增加嘛我怕是怕你告訴我臨時人員派軍工的方式來達到這個整個公務的量能\n\n35\n00:11:41,840 --> 00:12:08,878\n你剛才就講一半了好不好他這個齁裡面會有牽涉到他未來禁用人員的專長類型因為說這個提供選手為助民因是運動員你如果要請他進來提供保護服務他沒有科企的資格嘛當然啦你就要用那個類似教育人員看他有沒有教育人員身份嘛不然你怕他就給他藥品\n\n36\n00:12:09,258 --> 00:12:09,438\n主席主席\n\n37\n00:12:26,445 --> 00:12:42,236\n像新的部會機關部門成立以後人員禁用達到整個公務的量能甚至它的效能那只是合理的但是你去把你不要去注意你像那個數位部變成部了以後\n\n38\n00:12:44,437 --> 00:12:56,902\n他上路已經一年多能否檢討人力的成效人力能否補足或是應該調整的地方這些基本如果沒有做到的話做不成事了\n\n39\n00:12:58,892 --> 00:13:04,176\n委員報告數位部你不是去問湯部長我討論各位站起來問你有需要請人嗎他最近告訴我他要請20個要去做打雜相關因為他有些是屬於電商的這一些治安的還有打雜的問題他說醜婆\n\n40\n00:13:17,926 --> 00:13:23,612\n他有需要那20個我說這樣手久手寒寒的我來支持這張鳳姐你可以去問唐部長我是主動叫各位去問你有需要人嗎因為我怕他拋棉啦你知道嗎所以我是主動去問不是說他來找我是我主動去問你有需要嗎\n\n41\n00:13:37,324 --> 00:13:37,404\n主席\n\n","tsv":"start\tend\ttext\n169\t19864\t發言謝謝主席 呃 出庭我來 延續喔 剛剛那個 陳委員的一些問題啊再來追問一下啦 齁 就是說五一勞動節 這到底公務人員要不要放這個問題啦齁那我相信啦 在整個公務人員的 要不要放假的一個決定 其實 目的事業主管機關的一定的權責嘛齁 公務人員\n24147\t29552\t我委員報告,這個紀念日是節日實施辦法,他的主管機關內政部?我知道啦,那個定義,那個是定義,他那個是元頭,元頭那個是用來料議案跟節日實施辦法這個當然是內政部啦齁其實這個問題喔,必考題啦,每一年大家都會問啦齁\n46306\t54169\t您本地在去年這條在討論的時候您的回應就是說內政部去研究啦就像你剛才說的 紀念日及節日時事辦法其實呢 委員本案要提升至法的位階 本來就沒有出委員會嘛所以大家都 不用太便宜啦但是呢 內政部這邊的一個講法就是希望您可以算命但是您說什麼都說得都太誇張啦\n74517\t83567\t你去年的公判也是在雷正博那裡研議,但是每天都在這樣說,有什麼進度沒有?你有提供什麼見解給雷正博嗎?我覺得這才是重點。以前你看到兒童節要放不放?\n92486\t92726\t委員會主席\n120401\t140417\t適用勞動基準法這個定義是公法上的一個契約所以大部分就是沒有辦法去用五一勞動節來放假 我在記兩個例比如說一個單位裡面的一個同時有公務人員 有約聘人員 還有派遣訓時的臨時人員你遇到勞動節的時候 你就很麻煩了是不是這樣說\n144394\t150770\t政府部門的計劃有些不是事用公司有的有的事用公司有的有的有的有的有的有的有的有的\n155350\t169075\t這都特色人在講理論的啦一般人在做方塊就是說我都白白在一間辦公室裡面你光跟我說法令什麼的有用嗎有用嗎有用嗎有用嗎有用嗎有用嗎有用嗎有用嗎有用嗎有用嗎有用嗎有用嗎有用嗎有用嗎有用嗎有用嗎有用嗎有用嗎有用嗎有用嗎有用嗎有用嗎有用嗎有用嗎有用嗎有用嗎有用嗎有用嗎有用嗎有用嗎有用嗎有用嗎有用嗎有用嗎有用嗎有用嗎有用嗎有用嗎有用嗎有用嗎有用嗎有用嗎有用嗎有用嗎有用嗎有用嗎有用嗎有用嗎有用嗎有用嗎有用嗎有用嗎有用嗎有用嗎有用嗎有用嗎有用嗎有用嗎有用嗎有用嗎有用嗎有用\n183263\t184548\t我那部份我有一齁我會都唱到要死了我去幫啦\n189766\t213271\t問題是在立法院裏面要運作啊 議會有的要運作啊逃家上班 走禮都不用上班的 也確實也好奇怪啦 也好奇怪啊但是呢 我的意思是說基本上齁 其實這些幕僚應該來講都是配合著公家單位休息 作息時間啦齁 因為大家要做工作 要休息就休息啦所以每個人都沒辦法啦 我們說實在啦\n218832\t237371\t其實這些人也都是為這個社會在付出,但是都被勞動節給遺忘掉。那其實我也很清楚,有非常大的困難就是在於你看這個教職人員的部分,老鼠綁,學生沒辦法抓,又來了,又出了這個問題。\n240094\t241516\t所以這樣子雙重考量之下,您搞不好一定跟全國性的同樣會再回到內政部\n257677\t262618\t內政部就變成說他們去修紀念日跟節日的實施辦法那你從第五條第二項地方直接將勞動節比照兒童節模式你全部都放一天這樣可以嗎\n282382\t282823\t委員會主席\n296243\t299526\t這個問題我是覺得有一個態度啦好不好,不要一間辦公室,那邊有棒,那邊沒棒\n319185\t329262\t這公家機關最常常碰到這個問題那當然接下來我要問的就是說最近應該你也看到了這個金門海域這個山巫船舶這個那海巡的弟兄發生這個事\n333407\t345364\t我看他們都是非常的盡忠職守,守護我們的一個海疆,他們的工作其實是很多的,他們的工作多到你看那些有時候因為我平常我自己選兩屆,我稍微順便做個第四屆,但是我選前面那兩屆選的時候,我的選擇是三個海\n350851\t350991\t主席\n367388\t386493\t沒辦法 這個政府的人力我們都是把它用到最極致也就是說他們的工作其實也非常高壓其實不只是海巡 很多機關都是苦於這個人力那也不時的提出希望說增加援俄的一個聲音這個我相信市長也都 聲音都聽見了\n388573\t404863\t那麼多的機關裡面光你們中央那麼多機關都強調人力不足啊那你們的態度我也很清楚啦你就覺得說中央機關是總緣合辦法來精神來對政府用人就是精實的立法的意志又對立法院又笑笑立法院有時候還說你們不能浪費有的沒的機關要精簡理論上都對啦\n412321\t423372\t政府用人精實的立法意旨：人力優先調整施法、邊境管理、交易環保、矯正檢查、社會及交通運輸業務今年預計22萬但是你們都一直強調相對行政院組織原額減少1.2萬的金錢\n430859\t433261\t臨時人員及派遣勞工分別9073至6644可是在疫情趨緩後的\n458742\t474599\t2022年臨時人員6613人這表示你採取的約聘僱的方式來支撐國家公務體系還是一個常態會不會引發大家一直在講的同工不同從你也看到這個問題 但是你也繼續用\n480069\t490730\t委員報告齁 剛才委員齁講的臨時領文大概是會用在那個有改大成的啦你有改大成的工作齁就不會輸\n491684\t517185\t這件事有一個階段性的,我就說兩年三年,我們用臨時的,因為公務另外,你也知道葉柏中,他也扣錢進來,一直要繼續用嘛。是啊。但是政府的考慮,維持一個改變性,一個就是業務的清空,現有能力的編制不足,然後用臨時能力來補的概念。所以也是不該?\n520013\t532823\t結論就是不該啊這塊我們都有在控制而且我們有控制一個%15%以來啦所以那個幾%裡面你就是要去燃燒你要去賣要去烤肉本來就是要同工不同酬\n534602\t549205\t我是覺得有些工作都一樣那當然涉及到身份保障的問題還有進行的方式不同但是還是要盡量去克服這方面這個確實是也都討論了那麼久那我最後一個問題要請教就是說\n550166\t559873\t有二領新的總統要上任,他的政見內有一人就是要成立體育運動發展部這你也很清楚,這當然是為體育業藝術更多的一個幫助以前體育署前面變成體育委會,未來是馬政府的首長委\n576168\t587539\t部是政策制定執行的一個縱向的機關委員會當然是一個政策協調統合的一個橫向的機關就本席來看提升主管體育事務層級的組織的一個變動才要三條路第一最關鍵當然就是新的部會\n592524\t592945\t主席主席主席主席\n609105\t628297\t那都不太可能嘛那我要請教你就以你專業的經驗分析來看過去像國科會也變成科技部但是回來又再變成國科會哪一種方式最能夠提升體育運動事務的支持以外也最符合你們組織基準法的提升施政效能的立法意志\n630300\t646719\t我是從我那兩個角度來看第一類似韓國的文化觀光體育部但是這件事要國內大家要有共識他就覺得我很重要我不要去跟文化公共合作會\n647860\t657849\t要溝通這個有時候溝通的難度蠻高的所以大家想簡單的我就是成立一個體育部但是我覺得現在在總研俄法上線的行政院最好的方式因為我觀察這幾天我們的體育表現都不錯\n671741\t690594\t主要就是你的主管要放那麼多下去要放那麼多下去當然啦 這一定的 我就要問你的其實要引出來的問題其實就是你看嘛 那個整個那個農委會升格後 人一定增加嘛你現在搞不好你現在去裡面體育部不管你用什麼方式成立一個部 你人也一定增加嘛我怕是怕你告訴我 臨時人員派軍工的方式來達到這個整個公務的量能\n701840\t728878\t你剛才就講一半了好不好他這個齁 裡面會有牽涉到他未來禁用人員的專長類型因為說這個 提供選手為助民 因是運動員你如果要請他進來 提供保護服務他沒有科企的資格嘛當然啦你就要用那個類似教育人員 看他有沒有教育人員身份嘛不然你怕他就給他藥品\n729258\t729438\t主席主席\n746445\t762236\t像新的部會機關部門成立以後人員禁用達到整個公務的量能甚至它的效能那只是合理的但是你去把你不要去注意你像那個數位部變成部了以後\n764437\t776902\t他上路已經一年多 能否檢討人力的成效 人力能否補足 或是應該調整的地方 這些基本如果沒有做到的話 做不成事了\n778892\t784176\t委員報告 數位部你不是去問湯部長我討論各位站起來問你有需要請人嗎他最近告訴我他要請20個要去做打雜相關因為他有些是屬於電商的這一些治安的還有打雜的問題他說醜婆\n797926\t803612\t他有需要那20個 我說這樣 手久手寒寒的 我來支持這張 鳳姐你可以去問 唐部長 我是主動 叫各位去問你有需要人嗎 因為我怕他拋棉啦 你知道嗎所以我是主動去問 不是說 他來找我 是我主動去問 你有需要嗎\n817324\t817404\t主席\n","txt":"發言謝謝主席 呃 出庭我來 延續喔 剛剛那個 陳委員的一些問題啊再來追問一下啦 齁 就是說五一勞動節 這到底公務人員要不要放這個問題啦齁那我相信啦 在整個公務人員的 要不要放假的一個決定 其實 目的事業主管機關的一定的權責嘛齁 公務人員\n我委員報告,這個紀念日是節日實施辦法,他的主管機關內政部?我知道啦,那個定義,那個是定義,他那個是元頭,元頭那個是用來料議案跟節日實施辦法這個當然是內政部啦齁其實這個問題喔,必考題啦,每一年大家都會問啦齁\n您本地在去年這條在討論的時候您的回應就是說內政部去研究啦就像你剛才說的 紀念日及節日時事辦法其實呢 委員本案要提升至法的位階 本來就沒有出委員會嘛所以大家都 不用太便宜啦但是呢 內政部這邊的一個講法就是希望您可以算命但是您說什麼都說得都太誇張啦\n你去年的公判也是在雷正博那裡研議,但是每天都在這樣說,有什麼進度沒有?你有提供什麼見解給雷正博嗎?我覺得這才是重點。以前你看到兒童節要放不放?\n委員會主席\n適用勞動基準法這個定義是公法上的一個契約所以大部分就是沒有辦法去用五一勞動節來放假 我在記兩個例比如說一個單位裡面的一個同時有公務人員 有約聘人員 還有派遣訓時的臨時人員你遇到勞動節的時候 你就很麻煩了是不是這樣說\n政府部門的計劃有些不是事用公司有的有的事用公司有的有的有的有的有的有的有的有的\n這都特色人在講理論的啦一般人在做方塊就是說我都白白在一間辦公室裡面你光跟我說法令什麼的有用嗎有用嗎有用嗎有用嗎有用嗎有用嗎有用嗎有用嗎有用嗎有用嗎有用嗎有用嗎有用嗎有用嗎有用嗎有用嗎有用嗎有用嗎有用嗎有用嗎有用嗎有用嗎有用嗎有用嗎有用嗎有用嗎有用嗎有用嗎有用嗎有用嗎有用嗎有用嗎有用嗎有用嗎有用嗎有用嗎有用嗎有用嗎有用嗎有用嗎有用嗎有用嗎有用嗎有用嗎有用嗎有用嗎有用嗎有用嗎有用嗎有用嗎有用嗎有用嗎有用嗎有用嗎有用嗎有用嗎有用嗎有用嗎有用嗎有用嗎有用嗎有用\n我那部份我有一齁我會都唱到要死了我去幫啦\n問題是在立法院裏面要運作啊 議會有的要運作啊逃家上班 走禮都不用上班的 也確實也好奇怪啦 也好奇怪啊但是呢 我的意思是說基本上齁 其實這些幕僚應該來講都是配合著公家單位休息 作息時間啦齁 因為大家要做工作 要休息就休息啦所以每個人都沒辦法啦 我們說實在啦\n其實這些人也都是為這個社會在付出,但是都被勞動節給遺忘掉。那其實我也很清楚,有非常大的困難就是在於你看這個教職人員的部分,老鼠綁,學生沒辦法抓,又來了,又出了這個問題。\n所以這樣子雙重考量之下,您搞不好一定跟全國性的同樣會再回到內政部\n內政部就變成說他們去修紀念日跟節日的實施辦法那你從第五條第二項地方直接將勞動節比照兒童節模式你全部都放一天這樣可以嗎\n委員會主席\n這個問題我是覺得有一個態度啦好不好,不要一間辦公室,那邊有棒,那邊沒棒\n這公家機關最常常碰到這個問題那當然接下來我要問的就是說最近應該你也看到了這個金門海域這個山巫船舶這個那海巡的弟兄發生這個事\n我看他們都是非常的盡忠職守,守護我們的一個海疆,他們的工作其實是很多的,他們的工作多到你看那些有時候因為我平常我自己選兩屆,我稍微順便做個第四屆,但是我選前面那兩屆選的時候,我的選擇是三個海\n主席\n沒辦法 這個政府的人力我們都是把它用到最極致也就是說他們的工作其實也非常高壓其實不只是海巡 很多機關都是苦於這個人力那也不時的提出希望說增加援俄的一個聲音這個我相信市長也都 聲音都聽見了\n那麼多的機關裡面光你們中央那麼多機關都強調人力不足啊那你們的態度我也很清楚啦你就覺得說中央機關是總緣合辦法來精神來對政府用人就是精實的立法的意志又對立法院又笑笑立法院有時候還說你們不能浪費有的沒的機關要精簡理論上都對啦\n政府用人精實的立法意旨：人力優先調整施法、邊境管理、交易環保、矯正檢查、社會及交通運輸業務今年預計22萬但是你們都一直強調相對行政院組織原額減少1.2萬的金錢\n臨時人員及派遣勞工分別9073至6644可是在疫情趨緩後的\n2022年臨時人員6613人這表示你採取的約聘僱的方式來支撐國家公務體系還是一個常態會不會引發大家一直在講的同工不同從你也看到這個問題 但是你也繼續用\n委員報告齁 剛才委員齁講的臨時領文大概是會用在那個有改大成的啦你有改大成的工作齁就不會輸\n這件事有一個階段性的,我就說兩年三年,我們用臨時的,因為公務另外,你也知道葉柏中,他也扣錢進來,一直要繼續用嘛。是啊。但是政府的考慮,維持一個改變性,一個就是業務的清空,現有能力的編制不足,然後用臨時能力來補的概念。所以也是不該?\n結論就是不該啊這塊我們都有在控制而且我們有控制一個%15%以來啦所以那個幾%裡面你就是要去燃燒你要去賣要去烤肉本來就是要同工不同酬\n我是覺得有些工作都一樣那當然涉及到身份保障的問題還有進行的方式不同但是還是要盡量去克服這方面這個確實是也都討論了那麼久那我最後一個問題要請教就是說\n有二領新的總統要上任,他的政見內有一人就是要成立體育運動發展部這你也很清楚,這當然是為體育業藝術更多的一個幫助以前體育署前面變成體育委會,未來是馬政府的首長委\n部是政策制定執行的一個縱向的機關委員會當然是一個政策協調統合的一個橫向的機關就本席來看提升主管體育事務層級的組織的一個變動才要三條路第一最關鍵當然就是新的部會\n主席主席主席主席\n那都不太可能嘛那我要請教你就以你專業的經驗分析來看過去像國科會也變成科技部但是回來又再變成國科會哪一種方式最能夠提升體育運動事務的支持以外也最符合你們組織基準法的提升施政效能的立法意志\n我是從我那兩個角度來看第一類似韓國的文化觀光體育部但是這件事要國內大家要有共識他就覺得我很重要我不要去跟文化公共合作會\n要溝通這個有時候溝通的難度蠻高的所以大家想簡單的我就是成立一個體育部但是我覺得現在在總研俄法上線的行政院最好的方式因為我觀察這幾天我們的體育表現都不錯\n主要就是你的主管要放那麼多下去要放那麼多下去當然啦 這一定的 我就要問你的其實要引出來的問題其實就是你看嘛 那個整個那個農委會升格後 人一定增加嘛你現在搞不好你現在去裡面體育部不管你用什麼方式成立一個部 你人也一定增加嘛我怕是怕你告訴我 臨時人員派軍工的方式來達到這個整個公務的量能\n你剛才就講一半了好不好他這個齁 裡面會有牽涉到他未來禁用人員的專長類型因為說這個 提供選手為助民 因是運動員你如果要請他進來 提供保護服務他沒有科企的資格嘛當然啦你就要用那個類似教育人員 看他有沒有教育人員身份嘛不然你怕他就給他藥品\n主席主席\n像新的部會機關部門成立以後人員禁用達到整個公務的量能甚至它的效能那只是合理的但是你去把你不要去注意你像那個數位部變成部了以後\n他上路已經一年多 能否檢討人力的成效 人力能否補足 或是應該調整的地方 這些基本如果沒有做到的話 做不成事了\n委員報告 數位部你不是去問湯部長我討論各位站起來問你有需要請人嗎他最近告訴我他要請20個要去做打雜相關因為他有些是屬於電商的這一些治安的還有打雜的問題他說醜婆\n他有需要那20個 我說這樣 手久手寒寒的 我來支持這張 鳳姐你可以去問 唐部長 我是主動 叫各位去問你有需要人嗎 因為我怕他拋棉啦 你知道嗎所以我是主動去問 不是說 他來找我 是我主動去問 你有需要嗎\n主席\n","vtt":"WEBVTT\n\n00:00.169 --> 00:19.864\n發言謝謝主席呃出庭我來延續喔剛剛那個陳委員的一些問題啊再來追問一下啦齁就是說五一勞動節這到底公務人員要不要放這個問題啦齁那我相信啦在整個公務人員的要不要放假的一個決定其實目的事業主管機關的一定的權責嘛齁公務人員\n\n00:24.147 --> 00:29.552\n我委員報告,這個紀念日是節日實施辦法,他的主管機關內政部?我知道啦,那個定義,那個是定義,他那個是元頭,元頭那個是用來料議案跟節日實施辦法這個當然是內政部啦齁其實這個問題喔,必考題啦,每一年大家都會問啦齁\n\n00:46.306 --> 00:54.169\n您本地在去年這條在討論的時候您的回應就是說內政部去研究啦就像你剛才說的紀念日及節日時事辦法其實呢委員本案要提升至法的位階本來就沒有出委員會嘛所以大家都不用太便宜啦但是呢內政部這邊的一個講法就是希望您可以算命但是您說什麼都說得都太誇張啦\n\n01:14.517 --> 01:23.567\n你去年的公判也是在雷正博那裡研議,但是每天都在這樣說,有什麼進度沒有?你有提供什麼見解給雷正博嗎?我覺得這才是重點。以前你看到兒童節要放不放?\n\n01:32.486 --> 01:32.726\n委員會主席\n\n02:00.401 --> 02:20.417\n適用勞動基準法這個定義是公法上的一個契約所以大部分就是沒有辦法去用五一勞動節來放假我在記兩個例比如說一個單位裡面的一個同時有公務人員有約聘人員還有派遣訓時的臨時人員你遇到勞動節的時候你就很麻煩了是不是這樣說\n\n02:24.394 --> 02:30.770\n政府部門的計劃有些不是事用公司有的有的事用公司有的有的有的有的有的有的有的有的\n\n02:35.350 --> 02:49.075\n這都特色人在講理論的啦一般人在做方塊就是說我都白白在一間辦公室裡面你光跟我說法令什麼的有用嗎有用嗎有用嗎有用嗎有用嗎有用嗎有用嗎有用嗎有用嗎有用嗎有用嗎有用嗎有用嗎有用嗎有用嗎有用嗎有用嗎有用嗎有用嗎有用嗎有用嗎有用嗎有用嗎有用嗎有用嗎有用嗎有用嗎有用嗎有用嗎有用嗎有用嗎有用嗎有用嗎有用嗎有用嗎有用嗎有用嗎有用嗎有用嗎有用嗎有用嗎有用嗎有用嗎有用嗎有用嗎有用嗎有用嗎有用嗎有用嗎有用嗎有用嗎有用嗎有用嗎有用嗎有用嗎有用嗎有用嗎有用嗎有用嗎有用嗎有用嗎有用\n\n03:03.263 --> 03:04.548\n我那部份我有一齁我會都唱到要死了我去幫啦\n\n03:09.766 --> 03:33.271\n問題是在立法院裏面要運作啊議會有的要運作啊逃家上班走禮都不用上班的也確實也好奇怪啦也好奇怪啊但是呢我的意思是說基本上齁其實這些幕僚應該來講都是配合著公家單位休息作息時間啦齁因為大家要做工作要休息就休息啦所以每個人都沒辦法啦我們說實在啦\n\n03:38.832 --> 03:57.371\n其實這些人也都是為這個社會在付出,但是都被勞動節給遺忘掉。那其實我也很清楚,有非常大的困難就是在於你看這個教職人員的部分,老鼠綁,學生沒辦法抓,又來了,又出了這個問題。\n\n04:00.094 --> 04:01.516\n所以這樣子雙重考量之下,您搞不好一定跟全國性的同樣會再回到內政部\n\n04:17.677 --> 04:22.618\n內政部就變成說他們去修紀念日跟節日的實施辦法那你從第五條第二項地方直接將勞動節比照兒童節模式你全部都放一天這樣可以嗎\n\n04:42.382 --> 04:42.823\n委員會主席\n\n04:56.243 --> 04:59.526\n這個問題我是覺得有一個態度啦好不好,不要一間辦公室,那邊有棒,那邊沒棒\n\n05:19.185 --> 05:29.262\n這公家機關最常常碰到這個問題那當然接下來我要問的就是說最近應該你也看到了這個金門海域這個山巫船舶這個那海巡的弟兄發生這個事\n\n05:33.407 --> 05:45.364\n我看他們都是非常的盡忠職守,守護我們的一個海疆,他們的工作其實是很多的,他們的工作多到你看那些有時候因為我平常我自己選兩屆,我稍微順便做個第四屆,但是我選前面那兩屆選的時候,我的選擇是三個海\n\n05:50.851 --> 05:50.991\n主席\n\n06:07.388 --> 06:26.493\n沒辦法這個政府的人力我們都是把它用到最極致也就是說他們的工作其實也非常高壓其實不只是海巡很多機關都是苦於這個人力那也不時的提出希望說增加援俄的一個聲音這個我相信市長也都聲音都聽見了\n\n06:28.573 --> 06:44.863\n那麼多的機關裡面光你們中央那麼多機關都強調人力不足啊那你們的態度我也很清楚啦你就覺得說中央機關是總緣合辦法來精神來對政府用人就是精實的立法的意志又對立法院又笑笑立法院有時候還說你們不能浪費有的沒的機關要精簡理論上都對啦\n\n06:52.321 --> 07:03.372\n政府用人精實的立法意旨：人力優先調整施法、邊境管理、交易環保、矯正檢查、社會及交通運輸業務今年預計22萬但是你們都一直強調相對行政院組織原額減少1.2萬的金錢\n\n07:10.859 --> 07:13.261\n臨時人員及派遣勞工分別9073至6644可是在疫情趨緩後的\n\n07:38.742 --> 07:54.599\n2022年臨時人員6613人這表示你採取的約聘僱的方式來支撐國家公務體系還是一個常態會不會引發大家一直在講的同工不同從你也看到這個問題但是你也繼續用\n\n08:00.069 --> 08:10.730\n委員報告齁剛才委員齁講的臨時領文大概是會用在那個有改大成的啦你有改大成的工作齁就不會輸\n\n08:11.684 --> 08:37.185\n這件事有一個階段性的,我就說兩年三年,我們用臨時的,因為公務另外,你也知道葉柏中,他也扣錢進來,一直要繼續用嘛。是啊。但是政府的考慮,維持一個改變性,一個就是業務的清空,現有能力的編制不足,然後用臨時能力來補的概念。所以也是不該?\n\n08:40.013 --> 08:52.823\n結論就是不該啊這塊我們都有在控制而且我們有控制一個%15%以來啦所以那個幾%裡面你就是要去燃燒你要去賣要去烤肉本來就是要同工不同酬\n\n08:54.602 --> 09:09.205\n我是覺得有些工作都一樣那當然涉及到身份保障的問題還有進行的方式不同但是還是要盡量去克服這方面這個確實是也都討論了那麼久那我最後一個問題要請教就是說\n\n09:10.166 --> 09:19.873\n有二領新的總統要上任,他的政見內有一人就是要成立體育運動發展部這你也很清楚,這當然是為體育業藝術更多的一個幫助以前體育署前面變成體育委會,未來是馬政府的首長委\n\n09:36.168 --> 09:47.539\n部是政策制定執行的一個縱向的機關委員會當然是一個政策協調統合的一個橫向的機關就本席來看提升主管體育事務層級的組織的一個變動才要三條路第一最關鍵當然就是新的部會\n\n09:52.524 --> 09:52.945\n主席主席主席主席\n\n10:09.105 --> 10:28.297\n那都不太可能嘛那我要請教你就以你專業的經驗分析來看過去像國科會也變成科技部但是回來又再變成國科會哪一種方式最能夠提升體育運動事務的支持以外也最符合你們組織基準法的提升施政效能的立法意志\n\n10:30.300 --> 10:46.719\n我是從我那兩個角度來看第一類似韓國的文化觀光體育部但是這件事要國內大家要有共識他就覺得我很重要我不要去跟文化公共合作會\n\n10:47.860 --> 10:57.849\n要溝通這個有時候溝通的難度蠻高的所以大家想簡單的我就是成立一個體育部但是我覺得現在在總研俄法上線的行政院最好的方式因為我觀察這幾天我們的體育表現都不錯\n\n11:11.741 --> 11:30.594\n主要就是你的主管要放那麼多下去要放那麼多下去當然啦這一定的我就要問你的其實要引出來的問題其實就是你看嘛那個整個那個農委會升格後人一定增加嘛你現在搞不好你現在去裡面體育部不管你用什麼方式成立一個部你人也一定增加嘛我怕是怕你告訴我臨時人員派軍工的方式來達到這個整個公務的量能\n\n11:41.840 --> 12:08.878\n你剛才就講一半了好不好他這個齁裡面會有牽涉到他未來禁用人員的專長類型因為說這個提供選手為助民因是運動員你如果要請他進來提供保護服務他沒有科企的資格嘛當然啦你就要用那個類似教育人員看他有沒有教育人員身份嘛不然你怕他就給他藥品\n\n12:09.258 --> 12:09.438\n主席主席\n\n12:26.445 --> 12:42.236\n像新的部會機關部門成立以後人員禁用達到整個公務的量能甚至它的效能那只是合理的但是你去把你不要去注意你像那個數位部變成部了以後\n\n12:44.437 --> 12:56.902\n他上路已經一年多能否檢討人力的成效人力能否補足或是應該調整的地方這些基本如果沒有做到的話做不成事了\n\n12:58.892 --> 13:04.176\n委員報告數位部你不是去問湯部長我討論各位站起來問你有需要請人嗎他最近告訴我他要請20個要去做打雜相關因為他有些是屬於電商的這一些治安的還有打雜的問題他說醜婆\n\n13:17.926 --> 13:23.612\n他有需要那20個我說這樣手久手寒寒的我來支持這張鳳姐你可以去問唐部長我是主動叫各位去問你有需要人嗎因為我怕他拋棉啦你知道嗎所以我是主動去問不是說他來找我是我主動去問你有需要嗎\n\n13:37.324 --> 13:37.404\n主席\n\n","segments":[{"start":0.169,"end":19.864,"text":"發言謝謝主席 呃 出庭我來 延續喔 剛剛那個 陳委員的一些問題啊再來追問一下啦 齁 就是說五一勞動節 這到底公務人員要不要放這個問題啦齁那我相信啦 在整個公務人員的 要不要放假的一個決定 其實 目的事業主管機關的一定的權責嘛齁 公務人員"},{"start":24.147,"end":29.552,"text":"我委員報告,這個紀念日是節日實施辦法,他的主管機關內政部?我知道啦,那個定義,那個是定義,他那個是元頭,元頭那個是用來料議案跟節日實施辦法這個當然是內政部啦齁其實這個問題喔,必考題啦,每一年大家都會問啦齁"},{"start":46.306,"end":54.169,"text":"您本地在去年這條在討論的時候您的回應就是說內政部去研究啦就像你剛才說的 紀念日及節日時事辦法其實呢 委員本案要提升至法的位階 本來就沒有出委員會嘛所以大家都 不用太便宜啦但是呢 內政部這邊的一個講法就是希望您可以算命但是您說什麼都說得都太誇張啦"},{"start":74.517,"end":83.567,"text":"你去年的公判也是在雷正博那裡研議,但是每天都在這樣說,有什麼進度沒有?你有提供什麼見解給雷正博嗎?我覺得這才是重點。以前你看到兒童節要放不放?"},{"start":92.486,"end":92.726,"text":"委員會主席"},{"start":120.401,"end":140.417,"text":"適用勞動基準法這個定義是公法上的一個契約所以大部分就是沒有辦法去用五一勞動節來放假 我在記兩個例比如說一個單位裡面的一個同時有公務人員 有約聘人員 還有派遣訓時的臨時人員你遇到勞動節的時候 你就很麻煩了是不是這樣說"},{"start":144.394,"end":150.77,"text":"政府部門的計劃有些不是事用公司有的有的事用公司有的有的有的有的有的有的有的有的"},{"start":155.35,"end":169.075,"text":"這都特色人在講理論的啦一般人在做方塊就是說我都白白在一間辦公室裡面你光跟我說法令什麼的有用嗎有用嗎有用嗎有用嗎有用嗎有用嗎有用嗎有用嗎有用嗎有用嗎有用嗎有用嗎有用嗎有用嗎有用嗎有用嗎有用嗎有用嗎有用嗎有用嗎有用嗎有用嗎有用嗎有用嗎有用嗎有用嗎有用嗎有用嗎有用嗎有用嗎有用嗎有用嗎有用嗎有用嗎有用嗎有用嗎有用嗎有用嗎有用嗎有用嗎有用嗎有用嗎有用嗎有用嗎有用嗎有用嗎有用嗎有用嗎有用嗎有用嗎有用嗎有用嗎有用嗎有用嗎有用嗎有用嗎有用嗎有用嗎有用嗎有用嗎有用嗎有用"},{"start":183.263,"end":184.548,"text":"我那部份我有一齁我會都唱到要死了我去幫啦"},{"start":189.766,"end":213.271,"text":"問題是在立法院裏面要運作啊 議會有的要運作啊逃家上班 走禮都不用上班的 也確實也好奇怪啦 也好奇怪啊但是呢 我的意思是說基本上齁 其實這些幕僚應該來講都是配合著公家單位休息 作息時間啦齁 因為大家要做工作 要休息就休息啦所以每個人都沒辦法啦 我們說實在啦"},{"start":218.832,"end":237.371,"text":"其實這些人也都是為這個社會在付出,但是都被勞動節給遺忘掉。那其實我也很清楚,有非常大的困難就是在於你看這個教職人員的部分,老鼠綁,學生沒辦法抓,又來了,又出了這個問題。"},{"start":240.094,"end":241.516,"text":"所以這樣子雙重考量之下,您搞不好一定跟全國性的同樣會再回到內政部"},{"start":257.677,"end":262.618,"text":"內政部就變成說他們去修紀念日跟節日的實施辦法那你從第五條第二項地方直接將勞動節比照兒童節模式你全部都放一天這樣可以嗎"},{"start":282.382,"end":282.823,"text":"委員會主席"},{"start":296.243,"end":299.526,"text":"這個問題我是覺得有一個態度啦好不好,不要一間辦公室,那邊有棒,那邊沒棒"},{"start":319.185,"end":329.262,"text":"這公家機關最常常碰到這個問題那當然接下來我要問的就是說最近應該你也看到了這個金門海域這個山巫船舶這個那海巡的弟兄發生這個事"},{"start":333.407,"end":345.364,"text":"我看他們都是非常的盡忠職守,守護我們的一個海疆,他們的工作其實是很多的,他們的工作多到你看那些有時候因為我平常我自己選兩屆,我稍微順便做個第四屆,但是我選前面那兩屆選的時候,我的選擇是三個海"},{"start":350.851,"end":350.991,"text":"主席"},{"start":367.388,"end":386.493,"text":"沒辦法 這個政府的人力我們都是把它用到最極致也就是說他們的工作其實也非常高壓其實不只是海巡 很多機關都是苦於這個人力那也不時的提出希望說增加援俄的一個聲音這個我相信市長也都 聲音都聽見了"},{"start":388.573,"end":404.863,"text":"那麼多的機關裡面光你們中央那麼多機關都強調人力不足啊那你們的態度我也很清楚啦你就覺得說中央機關是總緣合辦法來精神來對政府用人就是精實的立法的意志又對立法院又笑笑立法院有時候還說你們不能浪費有的沒的機關要精簡理論上都對啦"},{"start":412.321,"end":423.372,"text":"政府用人精實的立法意旨：人力優先調整施法、邊境管理、交易環保、矯正檢查、社會及交通運輸業務今年預計22萬但是你們都一直強調相對行政院組織原額減少1.2萬的金錢"},{"start":430.859,"end":433.261,"text":"臨時人員及派遣勞工分別9073至6644可是在疫情趨緩後的"},{"start":458.742,"end":474.599,"text":"2022年臨時人員6613人這表示你採取的約聘僱的方式來支撐國家公務體系還是一個常態會不會引發大家一直在講的同工不同從你也看到這個問題 但是你也繼續用"},{"start":480.069,"end":490.73,"text":"委員報告齁 剛才委員齁講的臨時領文大概是會用在那個有改大成的啦你有改大成的工作齁就不會輸"},{"start":491.684,"end":517.185,"text":"這件事有一個階段性的,我就說兩年三年,我們用臨時的,因為公務另外,你也知道葉柏中,他也扣錢進來,一直要繼續用嘛。是啊。但是政府的考慮,維持一個改變性,一個就是業務的清空,現有能力的編制不足,然後用臨時能力來補的概念。所以也是不該?"},{"start":520.013,"end":532.823,"text":"結論就是不該啊這塊我們都有在控制而且我們有控制一個%15%以來啦所以那個幾%裡面你就是要去燃燒你要去賣要去烤肉本來就是要同工不同酬"},{"start":534.602,"end":549.205,"text":"我是覺得有些工作都一樣那當然涉及到身份保障的問題還有進行的方式不同但是還是要盡量去克服這方面這個確實是也都討論了那麼久那我最後一個問題要請教就是說"},{"start":550.166,"end":559.873,"text":"有二領新的總統要上任,他的政見內有一人就是要成立體育運動發展部這你也很清楚,這當然是為體育業藝術更多的一個幫助以前體育署前面變成體育委會,未來是馬政府的首長委"},{"start":576.168,"end":587.539,"text":"部是政策制定執行的一個縱向的機關委員會當然是一個政策協調統合的一個橫向的機關就本席來看提升主管體育事務層級的組織的一個變動才要三條路第一最關鍵當然就是新的部會"},{"start":592.524,"end":592.945,"text":"主席主席主席主席"},{"start":609.105,"end":628.297,"text":"那都不太可能嘛那我要請教你就以你專業的經驗分析來看過去像國科會也變成科技部但是回來又再變成國科會哪一種方式最能夠提升體育運動事務的支持以外也最符合你們組織基準法的提升施政效能的立法意志"},{"start":630.3,"end":646.719,"text":"我是從我那兩個角度來看第一類似韓國的文化觀光體育部但是這件事要國內大家要有共識他就覺得我很重要我不要去跟文化公共合作會"},{"start":647.86,"end":657.849,"text":"要溝通這個有時候溝通的難度蠻高的所以大家想簡單的我就是成立一個體育部但是我覺得現在在總研俄法上線的行政院最好的方式因為我觀察這幾天我們的體育表現都不錯"},{"start":671.741,"end":690.594,"text":"主要就是你的主管要放那麼多下去要放那麼多下去當然啦 這一定的 我就要問你的其實要引出來的問題其實就是你看嘛 那個整個那個農委會升格後 人一定增加嘛你現在搞不好你現在去裡面體育部不管你用什麼方式成立一個部 你人也一定增加嘛我怕是怕你告訴我 臨時人員派軍工的方式來達到這個整個公務的量能"},{"start":701.84,"end":728.878,"text":"你剛才就講一半了好不好他這個齁 裡面會有牽涉到他未來禁用人員的專長類型因為說這個 提供選手為助民 因是運動員你如果要請他進來 提供保護服務他沒有科企的資格嘛當然啦你就要用那個類似教育人員 看他有沒有教育人員身份嘛不然你怕他就給他藥品"},{"start":729.258,"end":729.438,"text":"主席主席"},{"start":746.445,"end":762.236,"text":"像新的部會機關部門成立以後人員禁用達到整個公務的量能甚至它的效能那只是合理的但是你去把你不要去注意你像那個數位部變成部了以後"},{"start":764.437,"end":776.902,"text":"他上路已經一年多 能否檢討人力的成效 人力能否補足 或是應該調整的地方 這些基本如果沒有做到的話 做不成事了"},{"start":778.892,"end":784.176,"text":"委員報告 數位部你不是去問湯部長我討論各位站起來問你有需要請人嗎他最近告訴我他要請20個要去做打雜相關因為他有些是屬於電商的這一些治安的還有打雜的問題他說醜婆"},{"start":797.926,"end":803.612,"text":"他有需要那20個 我說這樣 手久手寒寒的 我來支持這張 鳳姐你可以去問 唐部長 我是主動 叫各位去問你有需要人嗎 因為我怕他拋棉啦 你知道嗎所以我是主動去問 不是說 他來找我 是我主動去問 你有需要嗎"},{"start":817.324,"end":817.404,"text":"主席"}]}}}}