{"id":149344,"url":"https://ivod.ly.gov.tw/Play/Clip/1M/149344","video_url":"https://ivod-lyvod.cdn.hinet.net/vod_1/_definst_/mp4:1MClips/aa454a369d2b172f998ac4892a0a0b421e2be856f0c9cef9f8ba9b0039caa7a69dbcd45e44a4b4e55ea18f28b6918d91.mp4/playlist.m3u8","委員名稱":"涂權吉","委員發言時間":"09:51:10 - 10:03:38","影片長度":"00:12:28","會議時間":"2024-03-06T09:00:00+08:00","會議名稱":"立法院第11屆第1會期社會福利及衛生環境委員會第3次全體委員會議（事由：邀請勞動部部長、外交部、勞動力發展署、衛生福利部、內政部、國家安全局就「我國開放印度移工對本國勞工就業市場之衝擊」進行專題報告，並備質詢。）","meet":{"tmpMeeting":null,"title":"第11屆第1會期社會福利及衛生環境委員會第3次全體委員會議","term":11,"type":"委員會","sessionPeriod":1,"sessionTimes":3,"committees":[26],"id":"委員會-11-1-26-3"},"date":"2024-03-06","duration":748,"end_time":"2024-03-06T10:03:38+08:00","start_time":"2024-03-06T09:51:10+08:00","features":["ai-transcript","gazette"],"type":"Clip","gazette":{"lineno":425,"blocks":[["涂委員權吉：（9時51分）謝謝主席，請我們部長。"],["主席：好，有請部長。"],["許部長銘春：涂委員好。"],["涂委員權吉：部長，我請問一下，針對我們引進印度移工的這個政策，其實一直以來，從大家知道以後就一直紛紛擾擾，我們勞動部也針對印度這一些說了很多的事情，但是我們注意到有很多是沒有說的，有幾個重點，像印度它有多達二十幾種的官方語言，而且現在印度教跟穆斯林的衝突也是日益升高，而且國際數據網站Statista在2022年就有針對印度就有發生過三萬多起的性侵事件，而且重點他也指出，受害者常常在警局撤銷告訴，被迫撤銷告訴的比例非常非常的高，表示他們常常都受到很多社會上的壓力、屈服、妥協，變成這些受害婦女到警局以後反而是撤銷他的告訴。而且世界銀行性別統計的資料庫也顯示，15歲到49歲印度的女性中有6%就遭受過性暴力的對待。那我請問一下，你不斷在我們的大眾媒體對於印度移工，我們部長一直有說，我們針對這個引進有歧視的心理，甚至有這個認知作戰，那我請問這個Statista還有世界銀行也在歧視我們印度人嗎？他們也在做認知作戰嗎？難道它的報導跟分析也是對岸阻撓的行為嗎？請部長說明一下。"],["許部長銘春：報告委員，因為你剛剛所講的這些大概就是印度國內的一個狀況，但是我們現在所瞭解的是，印度1,800萬在海外的移工，他們的工作狀況其實是OK的，包括他的素質、他的工作能力，其實這1,800萬是分布在世界各國，他的工作能力是受大家肯定的，犯罪率也是比起引進他的工作國家還要低。再來，我要跟委員說明，其實我們開放移工已經35年，現在四個移工來源國，包括未來的印度都是一樣，第一個，你要到臺灣來工作，第一個一定要有沒有犯罪紀錄的一個證明，一定要提出，就是我們所謂的良民證啦，我們要確保他沒有治安的疑慮，然後……"],["涂委員權吉：我請問一下，我的重點是說，針對這個國際數據網站等等所報導的，難道他們也是在做認知戰嗎？"],["許部長銘春：我沒有說他做認知戰，我剛剛是跟委員說，您說的這個可能是就他國內的一個情形做說明，但是我移工要引進，我會有一些條件，就是說你來，第一個，對治安不能有影響，不能影響我們的就業機會……"],["涂委員權吉：沒關係，所以這些數據你也是承認、也是同意的嘛，對不對？針對這些數據。"],["許部長銘春：這個如果是國際的數據，當然它評比那個我們必須就是尊重他的一個說明，但是我……"],["涂委員權吉：所以重點……"],["許部長銘春：但是我要說明的是，我們瞭解這些狀況，不過我在引進移工時，也一定要確保國內……"],["涂委員權吉：我的重點是，這些數據與對岸阻撓其實沒有關係，這些數據與對岸的認知戰是沒有關係的，對不對？"],["許部長銘春：報告委員，我講的是去年大概11月，我們要引進10萬名印度移工的這件事情是假訊息啊！"],["涂委員權吉：沒關係，我現在的重點是，我希望勞動部在處理這些事情時，不要很多事情沒有辦法處理也沒有辦法交代，甚至無限上綱，推到老共身上！部長，我覺得你們講話也要負責，不要什麼事情都推到對岸公開阻撓。你在接受採訪時說有公開阻撓，我想請問一下，他是怎麼阻撓的，你可以告訴我們嗎？因為你在網路有講，但我們發文去詢問時，其實貴部也真的說不出個所以然。我們有發文，因為你說有阻撓，然後我們發文到貴部，卻說不出個所以然。所以我才說，現在是不是勞動部同仁在打臉勞動部長？還是勞動部長公然說謊？你可以說明一下嗎？"],["許部長銘春：其實他的阻撓有很多方式，像去年年底那件事，在經過國安單位的瞭解後，認為有認知戰這麼一回事……"],["涂委員權吉：部長，我覺得你講的……"],["許部長銘春：報告委員，我覺得……"],["涂委員權吉：不明確！"],["許部長銘春：阻撓有各種方式，真的要……"],["涂委員權吉：沒關係……"],["許部長銘春：不能讓你成事……"],["涂委員權吉：所以你講的阻撓到現在還是說不出具體的阻撓……"],["許部長銘春：他們也不會公開明目張膽成這樣……"],["涂委員權吉：沒關係。針對印度移工入境所可能有的負面影響，政府有責任做完整的評估並說服大眾。我請問一下，在整個引進過程中，勞動部有做研究評估嗎？"],["許部長銘春：我們有評估過。"],["涂委員權吉：勞動部自己有做評估嗎？勞動部有做嗎？"],["許部長銘春：我們自己內部有評估。"],["涂委員權吉：有評估報告嗎？"],["許部長銘春：有評估的資訊。"],["涂委員權吉：有評估報告、會議紀錄嗎？"],["許部長銘春：那不是會議紀錄……"],["涂委員權吉：所以提不出任何評估報告嘛！"],["許部長銘春：我們在資訊蒐集後……"],["涂委員權吉：你說勞動部有做就對了？"],["許部長銘春：我們有做評估。"],["涂委員權吉：我請問一下，你在網路節目上說，外交部在幫勞動部做評估，你是不是這樣講？"],["許部長銘春：是協助蒐集資料……"],["涂委員權吉：你說外交部是協助？"],["許部長銘春：任何移工來源國當初在開放的時候，都要透過……"],["涂委員權吉：到底是勞動部做，還是外交部做？"],["許部長銘春：都有，都有幫忙……"],["涂委員權吉：都有做？"],["許部長銘春：都有協助。"],["涂委員權吉：勞動部有做，外交部也有做？"],["許部長銘春：我們要引進新的移工來源，一定要做一些評估，要透過……"],["涂委員權吉：但你還是提不出任何證據或會議紀錄說有做評估，對不對？沒有任何會議紀錄，也提不出任何報告，只是你自己說有嘛！重點是，你在網路節目上講「請外交部」，今天外交部有來，我請外交部證實一下，勞動部是不是有請你們提供資訊做評估？外交部？"],["許副司長書智：委員好。因為這個案子主政單位是勞動部，我們外交部在這個案子事實上是採取協助立場，也就是我們外館，即駐印度代表處有協助……"],["涂委員權吉：所以你們是在旁協助，提供資訊，對不對？"],["許副司長書智：相關資訊。這些相關資訊，我們應勞動部要求都有轉給勞動部……"],["涂委員權吉：請問你提供給他的資料是機密嗎？"],["許副司長書智：我們提供的這些資料都是機密……"],["涂委員權吉：都是機密？所以當初我們想要調閱、想要瞭解你們的評估時，才說不能提供給立委知情，對不對？"],["許副司長書智：對！因為依據文書處理手冊還有國家機密保護法，我們沒有辦法……"],["涂委員權吉：我請問一下，既然不能提供讓立委知情，那麼勞動部可以對外公開說嗎？"],["許副司長書智：這屬於政府之間，跟我們這個外館……"],["涂委員權吉：所以立委可以不知情，但勞動部可以對外公開說？"],["許副司長書智：因為政府是一體的，至於這些資訊，現在是政府做內部的評估參考使用……"],["涂委員權吉：主席，不好意思，再給我2分鐘。我們真的覺得很納悶，沒想到連外勞引進也都列入機密，講難聽一點，就像黑箱一樣。不知道為什麼民進黨政府疫苗要黑箱，軍購要黑箱，連外勞引進都列入機密，也要黑箱，難道這個到時候也要封存30年嗎？"],["許副司長書智：報告委員，我們都依照相關的法規、法令在進行，如同我剛剛講的，依據文書處理手冊還有國家機密保護法的相關規定。所以這些機密文件我們沒有辦法直接提供給委員，除非大院有做成相關決議。"],["涂委員權吉：沒關係。部長，我再請問一下。勞動部是不是有跨國勞動力政策協商諮詢小組？"],["許部長銘春：有。"],["涂委員權吉：是不是針對擬定外勞政策，針對勞資政三方最重要平臺，要引進都要由它來做評估，對不對？"],["許部長銘春：不用。"],["涂委員權吉：不用？不需要？"],["許部長銘春：不用。"],["涂委員權吉：需不需要？需不需要請他做評估？"],["蔡署長孟良：跟委員報告，該政策小組主要是針對現行開放的情況下，就目前已開放的來源國到……"],["涂委員權吉：針對這部分，勞動部是哪一個單位在做評估？剛剛部長說有做評估，是誰在做評估？"],["蔡署長孟良：剛剛跟委員報告的是，在MOU洽簽過程中……"],["涂委員權吉：不是！我是問你誰在做評估？"],["蔡署長孟良：現在行政內部要透過相關的資訊蒐集後做成內部評估……"],["涂委員權吉：所以跨國勞動力政策協商小組是不是做這個工作的？"],["蔡署長孟良：沒有。"],["涂委員權吉：這個單位還有功能嗎？"],["蔡署長孟良：有。"],["涂委員權吉：還有功能？請問部長，你們說有討論，可是你又提不出具體的東西，而且到底是哪個單位在做？還好你說跨國勞動力政策協商小組沒有做，不然3年開了六次會議，卻針對印度移工問題隻字未提，從頭到尾都沒有討論過！我希望勞動部在這之前一定要說服大眾，要做完整評估，然後針對我們的這些問題……之前你自己在網路節目講，外交部正在幫勞動部評估，你自己去看你在網路政論節目上講的。你說這些印勞都來自東北省份，生活習慣跟我們相近，而且多數是基督徒，我很想知道這些訊息到底是哪裡來的？你真的需要說清楚講明白！難怪民間常常有謠言說，外勞的引進是綠營金主想做外勞生意……"],["許部長銘春：絕對沒有這回事！"],["涂委員權吉：而且我不希望你把這些民間的質疑無限上綱，都推到對岸的認知戰，阿共的陰謀。你沒有辦法交代的事情就是阿共的陰謀，對岸的認知戰。我等一下會有臨時提案，針對印度移工、外勞引進一事，希望縣市政府一定要舉辦說明會，並盤整現有的通譯功能，針對社會的影響評估、勞動市場評估及政策可行性評估，提出一個完整的報告來。到時候也要請勞資政學，還有仲介代表來召開公聽會。此外，針對逃逸外勞，你們一直沒有提出完善的改善方式，我希望你能提出階段性的完善改善方式後，再來提印度移工問題。否則你引進來，絕對讓臺灣社會民眾有很大的疑慮。希望部長及勞動部能夠幫忙，謝謝。"],["主席：謝謝涂權吉委員進行的質詢。","接下來我們請邱鎮軍委員進行質詢。"]],"agenda":{"page_end":214,"meet_id":"委員會-11-1-26-3","speakers":["王育敏","蘇清泉","林月琴","陳昭姿","陳菁徽","涂權吉","邱鎮軍","王正旭","廖偉翔","黃秀芳","盧縣一","楊曜","劉建國","林淑芬","謝衣鳯","李彥秀","楊瓊瓔","吳思瑤","洪申翰","游顥","洪孟楷","蔡易餘","羅智強","陳瑩","王鴻薇","陳冠廷"],"page_start":125,"meetingDate":["2024-03-06"],"gazette_id":"1130701","agenda_lcidc_ids":["1130701_00004"],"meet_name":"立法院第11屆第1會期社會福利及衛生環境委員會第3次全體委員會議紀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\"score\": 0.992}, {\"word\": \"委\", \"start\": 165.835, \"end\": 166.336, \"score\": 0.916}, {\"word\": \"員\"}, {\"word\": \"說\"}, {\"word\": \"明\", \"start\": 166.336, \"end\": 166.936, \"score\": 0.998}, {\"word\": \"其\", \"start\": 166.936, \"end\": 167.176, \"score\": 0.841}, {\"word\": \"實\"}, {\"word\": \"我\", \"start\": 167.176, \"end\": 167.456, \"score\": 0.856}, {\"word\": \"們\"}, {\"word\": \"開\"}, {\"word\": \"放\", \"start\": 167.456, \"end\": 167.617, \"score\": 0.997}, {\"word\": \"移\", \"start\": 167.617, \"end\": 167.777, \"score\": 0.756}, {\"word\": \"工\", \"start\": 167.777, \"end\": 168.497, \"score\": 0.905}, {\"word\": \"已\", \"start\": 168.497, \"end\": 168.637, \"score\": 0.856}, {\"word\": \"經\"}, {\"word\": \"3\"}, {\"word\": \"5\"}, {\"word\": \"年\", \"start\": 168.637, \"end\": 170.018, \"score\": 0.955}, {\"word\": \"現\"}, {\"word\": \"在\", \"start\": 170.018, \"end\": 170.878, \"score\": 1.0}, {\"word\": \"四\", \"start\": 170.878, \"end\": 171.139, 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{\"word\": \"一\", \"start\": 174.08, \"end\": 174.32, \"score\": 0.879}, {\"word\": \"個\"}, {\"word\": \"你\", \"start\": 174.32, \"end\": 174.42, \"score\": 0.822}, {\"word\": \"要\", \"start\": 174.42, \"end\": 174.541, \"score\": 0.998}, {\"word\": \"到\", \"start\": 174.541, \"end\": 174.821, \"score\": 0.997}, {\"word\": \"台\", \"start\": 174.821, \"end\": 175.841, \"score\": 0.956}, {\"word\": \"灣\"}, {\"word\": \"來\"}, {\"word\": \"工\", \"start\": 175.841, \"end\": 176.041, \"score\": 0.997}, {\"word\": \"作\", \"start\": 176.041, \"end\": 176.322, \"score\": 0.997}, {\"word\": \"第\", \"start\": 176.322, \"end\": 176.402, \"score\": 0.997}, {\"word\": \"一\", \"start\": 176.402, \"end\": 176.622, \"score\": 0.902}, {\"word\": \"個\"}, {\"word\": \"一\", \"start\": 176.622, \"end\": 176.722, \"score\": 0.999}, {\"word\": \"定\", \"start\": 176.722, \"end\": 176.742, \"score\": 0.384}]}, {\"start\": 177.142, \"end\": 177.903, \"text\": \"我請問一下,重點是說,他針對這個國際數據網站等等他所報導的\", \"words\": [{\"word\": \"我\", \"start\": 177.142, \"end\": 177.222, \"score\": 0.75}, {\"word\": \"請\"}, {\"word\": \"問\"}, {\"word\": \"一\", \"start\": 177.222, \"end\": 177.262, \"score\": 0.5}, {\"word\": \"下\", \"start\": 177.262, \"end\": 177.402, \"score\": 0.857}, {\"word\": \",\"}, {\"word\": \"重\", \"start\": 177.402, \"end\": 177.422, \"score\": 0.0}, {\"word\": \"點\"}, {\"word\": \"是\", \"start\": 177.422, \"end\": 177.442, \"score\": 0.0}, {\"word\": \"說\"}, {\"word\": \",\"}, {\"word\": \"他\", \"start\": 177.442, \"end\": 177.562, \"score\": 0.831}, {\"word\": \"針\"}, {\"word\": \"對\"}, {\"word\": \"這\"}, {\"word\": \"個\"}, {\"word\": \"國\"}, {\"word\": \"際\"}, {\"word\": \"數\"}, {\"word\": \"據\"}, {\"word\": \"網\"}, {\"word\": \"站\", \"start\": 177.562, \"end\": 177.682, \"score\": 0.833}, {\"word\": \"等\", \"start\": 177.682, \"end\": 177.702, \"score\": 0.0}, {\"word\": \"等\", \"start\": 177.702, \"end\": 177.762, \"score\": 0.665}, {\"word\": \"他\", \"start\": 177.762, \"end\": 177.863, \"score\": 0.8}, {\"word\": \"所\", \"start\": 177.863, \"end\": 177.883, \"score\": 0.0}, {\"word\": \"報\"}, {\"word\": \"導\"}, {\"word\": \"的\", \"start\": 177.883, \"end\": 177.903, \"score\": 0.0}]}, {\"start\": 196.016, \"end\": 216.291, \"text\": \"難道他們也是在做認知戰嗎我沒有說他做認知戰我剛剛是跟委員說您說了這是他可能他就他國內的一個情形做說明但是我移工要引進我會有一些條件就是說你來第一個對資源不能有影響好沒關係所以這些數據你也是承認也是同意的嘛對不對針對這些數據這個如果是\", \"words\": [{\"word\": \"難\"}, {\"word\": \"道\", \"start\": 196.016, \"end\": 196.176, \"score\": 0.892}, {\"word\": \"他\", \"start\": 196.176, \"end\": 196.316, \"score\": 0.959}, {\"word\": \"們\"}, {\"word\": \"也\", \"start\": 196.316, \"end\": 196.557, \"score\": 0.915}, {\"word\": \"是\", \"start\": 196.557, \"end\": 196.697, \"score\": 0.866}, {\"word\": \"在\", \"start\": 196.697, \"end\": 196.897, \"score\": 0.996}, {\"word\": \"做\", \"start\": 196.897, \"end\": 197.297, \"score\": 0.906}, {\"word\": \"認\"}, {\"word\": \"知\", \"start\": 197.297, \"end\": 197.477, \"score\": 0.917}, {\"word\": \"戰\"}, {\"word\": \"嗎\"}, {\"word\": \"我\", \"start\": 197.477, \"end\": 197.617, \"score\": 0.855}, {\"word\": \"沒\", \"start\": 197.617, \"end\": 197.757, \"score\": 0.844}, {\"word\": \"有\", \"start\": 197.757, \"end\": 198.078, \"score\": 0.936}, {\"word\": \"說\"}, {\"word\": \"他\", \"start\": 198.078, \"end\": 198.278, \"score\": 0.993}, {\"word\": \"做\", \"start\": 198.278, \"end\": 198.658, \"score\": 0.862}, {\"word\": \"認\"}, {\"word\": \"知\", \"start\": 198.658, \"end\": 198.878, \"score\": 0.912}, {\"word\": \"戰\"}, {\"word\": \"我\", \"start\": 198.878, \"end\": 199.058, \"score\": 0.989}, {\"word\": \"剛\"}, {\"word\": \"剛\"}, {\"word\": \"是\", \"start\": 199.058, \"end\": 199.459, \"score\": 0.89}, {\"word\": \"跟\", \"start\": 199.459, \"end\": 199.579, \"score\": 0.985}, {\"word\": \"委\", \"start\": 199.579, \"end\": 200.219, \"score\": 0.927}, {\"word\": \"員\"}, {\"word\": \"說\"}, {\"word\": \"您\", \"start\": 200.219, \"end\": 200.64, \"score\": 0.903}, {\"word\": \"說\"}, {\"word\": \"了\", \"start\": 200.64, \"end\": 200.86, \"score\": 0.895}, {\"word\": \"這\"}, {\"word\": \"是\", \"start\": 200.86, \"end\": 201.0, \"score\": 0.935}, {\"word\": \"他\", \"start\": 201.0, \"end\": 201.38, \"score\": 0.991}, {\"word\": \"可\", \"start\": 201.38, \"end\": 201.5, \"score\": 0.995}, {\"word\": \"能\", \"start\": 201.5, \"end\": 202.061, \"score\": 0.998}, {\"word\": \"他\", \"start\": 202.061, \"end\": 202.281, \"score\": 0.97}, {\"word\": \"就\", \"start\": 202.281, \"end\": 202.401, \"score\": 0.924}, {\"word\": \"他\", \"start\": 202.401, \"end\": 202.961, \"score\": 0.921}, {\"word\": \"國\"}, {\"word\": \"內\"}, {\"word\": \"的\", \"start\": 202.961, \"end\": 203.061, \"score\": 0.996}, {\"word\": \"一\", \"start\": 203.061, \"end\": 203.281, \"score\": 0.884}, {\"word\": \"個\"}, {\"word\": \"情\", \"start\": 203.281, \"end\": 203.542, \"score\": 0.989}, {\"word\": \"形\", \"start\": 203.542, \"end\": 204.162, \"score\": 0.966}, {\"word\": \"做\", \"start\": 204.162, 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\"end\": 212.949, \"score\": 0.854}, {\"word\": \"沒\", \"start\": 212.949, \"end\": 213.169, \"score\": 0.908}, {\"word\": \"關\"}, {\"word\": \"係\"}, {\"word\": \"所\", \"start\": 213.169, \"end\": 213.289, \"score\": 0.877}, {\"word\": \"以\", \"start\": 213.289, \"end\": 213.529, \"score\": 0.903}, {\"word\": \"這\"}, {\"word\": \"些\", \"start\": 213.529, \"end\": 214.109, \"score\": 0.915}, {\"word\": \"數\"}, {\"word\": \"據\"}, {\"word\": \"你\", \"start\": 214.109, \"end\": 214.249, \"score\": 0.894}, {\"word\": \"也\", \"start\": 214.249, \"end\": 214.39, \"score\": 0.854}, {\"word\": \"是\", \"start\": 214.39, \"end\": 214.83, \"score\": 0.974}, {\"word\": \"承\", \"start\": 214.83, \"end\": 215.15, \"score\": 0.877}, {\"word\": \"認\"}, {\"word\": \"也\", \"start\": 215.15, \"end\": 215.29, \"score\": 0.952}, {\"word\": \"是\", \"start\": 215.29, \"end\": 215.45, \"score\": 0.903}, {\"word\": \"同\", \"start\": 215.45, \"end\": 215.671, \"score\": 0.962}, {\"word\": \"意\", \"start\": 215.671, \"end\": 215.811, \"score\": 0.911}, {\"word\": \"的\", \"start\": 215.811, \"end\": 215.931, \"score\": 0.996}, {\"word\": \"嘛\", \"start\": 215.931, \"end\": 216.111, \"score\": 0.886}, {\"word\": \"對\"}, {\"word\": \"不\", \"start\": 216.111, \"end\": 216.131, \"score\": 0.001}, {\"word\": \"對\"}, {\"word\": \"針\"}, {\"word\": \"對\"}, {\"word\": \"這\"}, {\"word\": \"些\", \"start\": 216.131, \"end\": 216.231, \"score\": 0.799}, {\"word\": \"數\"}, {\"word\": \"據\"}, {\"word\": \"這\"}, {\"word\": \"個\"}, {\"word\": \"如\", \"start\": 216.231, \"end\": 216.251, \"score\": 0.0}, {\"word\": \"果\", \"start\": 216.251, \"end\": 216.271, \"score\": 0.0}, {\"word\": \"是\", \"start\": 216.271, \"end\": 216.291, \"score\": 0.0}]}, {\"start\": 219.553, \"end\": 238.929, \"text\": \"國際的數據當然那評比那個我們必須就是尊重他的一個說明所以重點但是我是說我要說明就是說我們瞭解這些狀況但是我移工的引進我一定要確保好我的重點是說所以這些數據跟對岸阻撓其實是沒有關係的嘛這些數據跟對岸認知戰是沒有關係的嘛對不對\", \"words\": [{\"word\": \"國\"}, {\"word\": \"際\"}, {\"word\": \"的\", \"start\": 219.553, \"end\": 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00:01:13,594\n幾種的官方語言而且他現在印度教跟慕林斯這個衝突也是日益升高那而且針對我們國際數據網站statist在2022年他就有針對印度就有發生過3萬多起的性侵的事件而且重點他也指出這個受害者他常在警局撤銷\n\n4\n00:01:15,376 --> 00:01:31,187\n這個告訴撤銷的、被迫撤銷的比例非常非常的高表示他們這個常常都受到很多社會上壓力、屈服、妥協變成這些受害婦女到警局以後反而是撤銷他的告訴\n\n5\n00:01:32,028 --> 00:01:56,570\n那而且這個世界銀行性別統計的資料庫也顯示15歲到49歲印度的女性中有6%就遭受過這個性暴力的對待那我請問一下你不斷在我們的大眾對於印度移工我們部長一直有說我們針對這個引進有歧視的心理甚至有這個\n\n6\n00:01:57,851 --> 00:02:03,114\n報告委員因為你剛剛所講的這些大概就是印度他國內的一個狀況但是我們現在所瞭解的是印度在1800萬在海外的移工的\n\n7\n00:02:27,765 --> 00:02:56,742\n的一個他們工作狀況他其實是OK的包括說他的素質他的工作能力其實他在18001800分部在世界各國他的工作能力是受大家肯定的犯罪率也是比起可能他進的工作國家還要低再來我要跟委員說明其實我們開放移工已經35年現在四個移工來源國包括未來印度都是一樣第一個你要到台灣來工作第一個一定\n\n8\n00:02:57,142 --> 00:02:57,903\n我請問一下,重點是說,他針對這個國際數據網站等等他所報導的\n\n9\n00:03:16,016 --> 00:03:36,291\n難道他們也是在做認知戰嗎我沒有說他做認知戰我剛剛是跟委員說您說了這是他可能他就他國內的一個情形做說明但是我移工要引進我會有一些條件就是說你來第一個對資源不能有影響好沒關係所以這些數據你也是承認也是同意的嘛對不對針對這些數據這個如果是\n\n10\n00:03:39,553 --> 00:03:58,929\n國際的數據當然那評比那個我們必須就是尊重他的一個說明所以重點但是我是說我要說明就是說我們瞭解這些狀況但是我移工的引進我一定要確保好我的重點是說所以這些數據跟對岸阻撓其實是沒有關係的嘛這些數據跟對岸認知戰是沒有關係的嘛對不對\n\n11\n00:04:02,912 --> 00:04:26,258\n報告委員我們講的那是說當初去年大概11月的時候說我們要引進10萬名印度移工這件事情是假訊息啊好沒關係我現在重點是說我希望我們勞動部在做這些處理事情不要很多事情沒有辦法處理沒有辦法交代都無限上剛推到老共的身上我們針對部長我覺得你們講話也要負責不要說什麼事情都推到說對岸\n\n12\n00:04:31,620 --> 00:04:40,710\n公開有阻撓那我請問一下你們說你在在接受採訪的時候說有公開阻撓我想請問一下那他是怎麼阻撓你可以告訴我們嗎\n\n13\n00:04:44,380 --> 00:04:45,541\n其實這些事情很多\n\n14\n00:05:14,500 --> 00:05:30,032\n他的主腦有很多方式但是我要講像去年那一年底那件事情所謂認知這是有經過國安單位的一個瞭解之後認為有這麼一回事部長我覺得你講的真的都很不明確\n\n15\n00:05:32,884 --> 00:05:41,130\n那我請問一下那針對印度移工入境可能負面的影響那當然我們政府有這個責任要做完整的評估來說服大眾那我請問一下在整個引進的過程中我們勞動部有做研究評估嗎?\n\n16\n00:06:01,513 --> 00:06:22,052\n我們有評估過啊我們勞動部自己有做評估嗎?勞動部有做嗎?我們自己內部有評估啊你有評估報告嗎?評估的資訊啦你有評估報告有會議紀錄嗎?那不是會議紀錄啦所以提不出任何評估報告嗎?\n\n17\n00:06:23,452 --> 00:06:49,244\n我們的資訊的收集之後所以你一說勞動部有做就對了我們有做評估啦那我請問一下那你在網路節目說是外交部在幫勞動部做評估是不是你是不是這樣講協助協助收集資料所以你說外交部是協助我們任何移工來源國當初在開放的時候都是要透過那到底是勞動部做還是外交部做\n\n18\n00:06:50,305 --> 00:07:04,537\n都有,都有幫忙,都有協助勞動部有做,外交部也有做就是我們要引進移工的這個心得來源一定要做一些評估啊所以你還是提不出任何證據任何會議記錄說有做評估嘛,對不對你們你們\n\n19\n00:07:08,386 --> 00:07:08,526\n有提供資訊嗎?\n\n20\n00:07:30,818 --> 00:07:55,470\n委員好因為這個案子主政單位是勞動部那我們外交部在這個案子事實上是採取一個協助的一個立場那我們就是我們外管就是我們駐印度代表處有協助協助相關的資訊那這些相關的資訊我們應勞動部的要求我們也都有轉給勞動部的單位來看好那我請問一下你提供給他的資料是\n\n21\n00:07:57,011 --> 00:08:14,850\n我們提供的資料這些都是機密所以當初我們想要調閱想要了解你們評估所以說不能提供給立委知情對不對對因為這個依據這個我們文書處理手冊不能提供給立委知情那勞動部可以對外公開說嗎\n\n22\n00:08:18,410 --> 00:08:19,351\n主席不好意思給我2分鐘那我請問一下\n\n23\n00:08:33,846 --> 00:08:58,302\n因為我們覺得真的很納悶我沒有想到連這個外交引進也都列入機密講兩點就像黑箱一樣我不知道為什麼現在民進黨政府疫苗也要黑箱軍購也要黑箱連這個外勞引進都列入機密也要黑箱難道這個到時候也要封存30年嗎報告委員這個我們都依照這個法律相關的法規在進行如同我剛剛講的\n\n24\n00:08:59,343 --> 00:08:59,783\n有﹗有﹗\n\n25\n00:09:20,390 --> 00:09:33,671\n那這個是不是針對擬定外勞政策針對勞資政三方最重要平台由他引進都要由他來做評估對不對不用不用不需要不用需不需要\n\n26\n00:09:35,325 --> 00:09:58,100\n需不需要請他來做評估跟委員報告這個政策小組主要是針對現行在開放的情況之下就目前已開放的來源國到國內那我請問一下勞動部針對這部分是哪一個單位在做評估剛剛部長說有做評估是誰在做評估那個剛剛委員報告是因為在MOU在整個掐簽過程當中不是我問你誰在做評估嗎\n\n27\n00:09:59,421 --> 00:10:11,558\n我們現在是行政的內部要透過相關的資訊的收集之後所以你說跨國勞動力政策協商小組是不是在做這個工作的?沒有那這個單位還有功能嗎?有\n\n28\n00:10:13,268 --> 00:10:32,248\n還有功能那我說實在我請問一下部長你們說有討論可是你真的提不出一些具體的而且到底有哪個單位在做而且這個跨國勞動力政策協商小組你還好你說他沒有做三年六次的會議針對這印度移工的問題\n\n29\n00:10:33,109 --> 00:10:45,413\n知智慧體從頭到尾都沒有討論過所以我希望我們這個勞動部在這之前希望一定要說服大眾要做一個完整的評估然後針對我們這些問題\n\n30\n00:10:48,874 --> 00:11:10,810\n之前你自己在講你在網路節目講外交部正在幫勞動部停工你自己去看你在網路政論節目講的然後你說這些印勞都來自東北的省份生活習慣跟我們相近而且多事是基督徒我真的很想知道你這些訊息到底是哪裡來的你真的有需要說清楚講明白難怪我們民間常常謠言說\n\n31\n00:11:15,173 --> 00:11:33,730\n說這個外勞的引進是綠營金主想要做這個外勞的生意而且我不希望把我們這些民間的質疑都無限上綱都推到對岸的認知戰阿共的陰謀你沒有辦法交代的事情就是阿共的陰謀對岸的認知戰所以我今天等一下會有再臨時提案\n\n32\n00:11:35,411 --> 00:11:56,238\n針對我們今天這個印度移工外勞引進我們針對希望我們縣市政府一定要舉辦說明會還有盤整我們現有的同意功能還有針對我們現有社會影響評估勞動市場評估還有政策可行性評估你們一定要提出做一個完整的報告到時候也要請我們勞資政學還有仲介代表\n\n33\n00:11:57,178 --> 00:12:20,049\n來召開這個公聽會那還有針對我們現在逃逸外勞的現象你們一直沒有提出一個完善的改善的方式我們希望你能夠提出一個階段性的完善改善方式我們再來提這個印度移工的問題不然這個問題你再引進絕對造成我們台灣社會民眾很大的疑慮在這邊希望我們部長勞動部能夠幫忙謝謝\n\n34\n00:12:23,171 --> 00:12:26,140\n好,我們謝謝涂權吉委員進行的質詢\n\n","tsv":"start\tend\ttext\n16926\t19570\t好謝謝主席那請我們部長好有請部長圖仁浩\n29209\t48336\t好部長我請問一下針對我們這個印度移工的這個政策其實一直以來從大家知道以後就一直紛紛擾擾那我們勞動部也針對印度這些說了很多的事情但是我們注意到有很多沒有說的有幾個重點像印度他有多達20幾\n50437\t73594\t幾種的官方語言而且他現在印度教跟慕林斯這個衝突也是日益升高那而且針對我們國際數據網站statist在2022年他就有針對印度就有發生過3萬多起的性侵的事件而且重點他也指出這個受害者他常在警局撤銷\n75376\t91187\t這個告訴撤銷的、被迫撤銷的比例非常非常的高表示他們這個常常都受到很多社會上壓力、屈服、妥協變成這些受害婦女到警局以後反而是撤銷他的告訴\n92028\t116570\t那而且這個世界銀行性別統計的資料庫也顯示15歲到49歲印度的女性中有6%就遭受過這個性暴力的對待那我請問一下你不斷在我們的大眾對於印度移工我們部長一直有說我們針對這個引進有歧視的心理甚至有這個\n117851\t123114\t報告委員因為你剛剛所講的這些大概就是印度他國內的一個狀況但是我們現在所瞭解的是印度在1800萬在海外的移工的\n147765\t176742\t的一個他們工作狀況他其實是OK的包括說他的素質他的工作能力其實他在18001800分部在世界各國他的工作能力是受大家肯定的犯罪率也是比起可能他進的工作國家還要低再來我要跟委員說明其實我們開放移工已經35年現在四個移工來源國包括未來印度都是一樣第一個你要到台灣來工作第一個一定\n177142\t177903\t我請問一下,重點是說,他針對這個國際數據網站等等他所報導的\n196016\t216291\t難道他們也是在做認知戰嗎我沒有說他做認知戰我剛剛是跟委員說您說了這是他可能他就他國內的一個情形做說明但是我移工要引進我會有一些條件就是說你來第一個對資源不能有影響好沒關係所以這些數據你也是承認也是同意的嘛對不對針對這些數據這個如果是\n219553\t238929\t國際的數據當然那評比那個我們必須就是尊重他的一個說明所以重點但是我是說我要說明就是說我們瞭解這些狀況但是我移工的引進我一定要確保好我的重點是說所以這些數據跟對岸阻撓其實是沒有關係的嘛這些數據跟對岸認知戰是沒有關係的嘛對不對\n242912\t266258\t報告委員我們講的那是說當初去年大概11月的時候說我們要引進10萬名印度移工這件事情是假訊息啊好沒關係我現在重點是說我希望我們勞動部在做這些處理事情不要很多事情沒有辦法處理沒有辦法交代都無限上剛推到老共的身上我們針對部長我覺得你們講話也要負責不要說什麼事情都推到說對岸\n271620\t280710\t公開有阻撓那我請問一下你們說你在在接受採訪的時候說有公開阻撓我想請問一下那他是怎麼阻撓你可以告訴我們嗎\n284380\t285541\t其實這些事情很多\n314500\t330032\t他的主腦有很多方式但是我要講像去年那一年底那件事情所謂認知這是有經過國安單位的一個瞭解之後認為有這麼一回事部長我覺得你講的真的都很不明確\n332884\t341130\t那我請問一下那針對印度移工入境可能負面的影響那當然我們政府有這個責任要做完整的評估來說服大眾那我請問一下在整個引進的過程中我們勞動部有做研究評估嗎?\n361513\t382052\t我們有評估過啊我們勞動部自己有做評估嗎?勞動部有做嗎?我們自己內部有評估啊你有評估報告嗎?評估的資訊啦你有評估報告有會議紀錄嗎?那不是會議紀錄啦所以提不出任何評估報告嗎?\n383452\t409244\t我們的資訊的收集之後所以你一說勞動部有做就對了我們有做評估啦那我請問一下那你在網路節目說是外交部在幫勞動部做評估是不是你是不是這樣講協助協助收集資料所以你說外交部是協助我們任何移工來源國當初在開放的時候都是要透過那到底是勞動部做還是外交部做\n410305\t424537\t都有,都有幫忙,都有協助勞動部有做,外交部也有做就是我們要引進移工的這個心得來源一定要做一些評估啊所以你還是提不出任何證據任何會議記錄說有做評估嘛,對不對你們你們\n428386\t428526\t有提供資訊嗎?\n450818\t475470\t委員好 因為這個案子主政單位是勞動部 那我們外交部在這個案子事實上是採取一個協助的一個立場 那我們就是我們外管就是我們駐印度代表處有協助 協助相關的資訊 那這些相關的資訊我們應勞動部的要求我們也都有轉給勞動部的單位來看好 那我請問一下你提供給他的資料是\n477011\t494850\t我們提供的資料這些都是機密所以當初我們想要調閱想要了解你們評估所以說不能提供給立委知情對不對對因為這個依據這個我們文書處理手冊不能提供給立委知情那勞動部可以對外公開說嗎\n498410\t499351\t主席不好意思給我2分鐘那我請問一下\n513846\t538302\t因為我們覺得真的很納悶我沒有想到連這個外交引進也都列入機密 講兩點就像黑箱一樣 我不知道為什麼現在民進黨政府疫苗也要黑箱軍購也要黑箱 連這個外勞引進都列入機密也要黑箱 難道這個到時候也要封存30年嗎報告委員 這個我們都依照這個法律 相關的法規在進行 如同我剛剛講的\n539343\t539783\t有﹗有﹗\n560390\t573671\t那這個是不是針對擬定外勞政策針對勞資政三方最重要平台由他引進都要由他來做評估對不對不用不用不需要不用需不需要\n575325\t598100\t需不需要請他來做評估跟委員報告這個政策小組主要是針對現行在開放的情況之下就目前已開放的來源國到國內那我請問一下勞動部針對這部分是哪一個單位在做評估剛剛部長說有做評估是誰在做評估那個剛剛委員報告是因為在MOU在整個掐簽過程當中不是我問你誰在做評估嗎\n599421\t611558\t我們現在是行政的內部要透過相關的資訊的收集之後所以你說跨國勞動力政策協商小組是不是在做這個工作的?沒有那這個單位還有功能嗎?有\n613268\t632248\t還有功能那我說實在我請問一下部長你們說有討論可是你真的提不出一些具體的而且到底有哪個單位在做而且這個跨國勞動力政策協商小組你還好你說他沒有做三年六次的會議針對這印度移工的問題\n633109\t645413\t知智慧體從頭到尾都沒有討論過所以我希望我們這個勞動部在這之前希望一定要說服大眾要做一個完整的評估然後針對我們這些問題\n648874\t670810\t之前你自己在講你在網路節目講外交部正在幫勞動部停工你自己去看你在網路政論節目講的然後你說這些印勞都來自東北的省份生活習慣跟我們相近而且多事是基督徒我真的很想知道你這些訊息到底是哪裡來的你真的有需要說清楚講明白難怪我們民間常常謠言說\n675173\t693730\t說這個外勞的引進是綠營金主想要做這個外勞的生意而且我不希望把我們這些民間的質疑都無限上綱都推到對岸的認知戰阿共的陰謀你沒有辦法交代的事情就是阿共的陰謀對岸的認知戰所以我今天等一下會有再臨時提案\n695411\t716238\t針對我們今天這個印度移工外勞引進我們針對希望我們縣市政府一定要舉辦說明會還有盤整我們現有的同意功能還有針對我們現有社會影響評估勞動市場評估還有政策可行性評估你們一定要提出做一個完整的報告到時候也要請我們勞資政學還有仲介代表\n717178\t740049\t來召開這個公聽會那還有針對我們現在逃逸外勞的現象你們一直沒有提出一個完善的改善的方式我們希望你能夠提出一個階段性的完善改善方式我們再來提這個印度移工的問題不然這個問題你再引進絕對造成我們台灣社會民眾很大的疑慮在這邊希望我們部長勞動部能夠幫忙謝謝\n743171\t746140\t好,我們謝謝涂權吉委員進行的質詢\n","txt":"好謝謝主席那請我們部長好有請部長圖仁浩\n好部長我請問一下針對我們這個印度移工的這個政策其實一直以來從大家知道以後就一直紛紛擾擾那我們勞動部也針對印度這些說了很多的事情但是我們注意到有很多沒有說的有幾個重點像印度他有多達20幾\n幾種的官方語言而且他現在印度教跟慕林斯這個衝突也是日益升高那而且針對我們國際數據網站statist在2022年他就有針對印度就有發生過3萬多起的性侵的事件而且重點他也指出這個受害者他常在警局撤銷\n這個告訴撤銷的、被迫撤銷的比例非常非常的高表示他們這個常常都受到很多社會上壓力、屈服、妥協變成這些受害婦女到警局以後反而是撤銷他的告訴\n那而且這個世界銀行性別統計的資料庫也顯示15歲到49歲印度的女性中有6%就遭受過這個性暴力的對待那我請問一下你不斷在我們的大眾對於印度移工我們部長一直有說我們針對這個引進有歧視的心理甚至有這個\n報告委員因為你剛剛所講的這些大概就是印度他國內的一個狀況但是我們現在所瞭解的是印度在1800萬在海外的移工的\n的一個他們工作狀況他其實是OK的包括說他的素質他的工作能力其實他在18001800分部在世界各國他的工作能力是受大家肯定的犯罪率也是比起可能他進的工作國家還要低再來我要跟委員說明其實我們開放移工已經35年現在四個移工來源國包括未來印度都是一樣第一個你要到台灣來工作第一個一定\n我請問一下,重點是說,他針對這個國際數據網站等等他所報導的\n難道他們也是在做認知戰嗎我沒有說他做認知戰我剛剛是跟委員說您說了這是他可能他就他國內的一個情形做說明但是我移工要引進我會有一些條件就是說你來第一個對資源不能有影響好沒關係所以這些數據你也是承認也是同意的嘛對不對針對這些數據這個如果是\n國際的數據當然那評比那個我們必須就是尊重他的一個說明所以重點但是我是說我要說明就是說我們瞭解這些狀況但是我移工的引進我一定要確保好我的重點是說所以這些數據跟對岸阻撓其實是沒有關係的嘛這些數據跟對岸認知戰是沒有關係的嘛對不對\n報告委員我們講的那是說當初去年大概11月的時候說我們要引進10萬名印度移工這件事情是假訊息啊好沒關係我現在重點是說我希望我們勞動部在做這些處理事情不要很多事情沒有辦法處理沒有辦法交代都無限上剛推到老共的身上我們針對部長我覺得你們講話也要負責不要說什麼事情都推到說對岸\n公開有阻撓那我請問一下你們說你在在接受採訪的時候說有公開阻撓我想請問一下那他是怎麼阻撓你可以告訴我們嗎\n其實這些事情很多\n他的主腦有很多方式但是我要講像去年那一年底那件事情所謂認知這是有經過國安單位的一個瞭解之後認為有這麼一回事部長我覺得你講的真的都很不明確\n那我請問一下那針對印度移工入境可能負面的影響那當然我們政府有這個責任要做完整的評估來說服大眾那我請問一下在整個引進的過程中我們勞動部有做研究評估嗎?\n我們有評估過啊我們勞動部自己有做評估嗎?勞動部有做嗎?我們自己內部有評估啊你有評估報告嗎?評估的資訊啦你有評估報告有會議紀錄嗎?那不是會議紀錄啦所以提不出任何評估報告嗎?\n我們的資訊的收集之後所以你一說勞動部有做就對了我們有做評估啦那我請問一下那你在網路節目說是外交部在幫勞動部做評估是不是你是不是這樣講協助協助收集資料所以你說外交部是協助我們任何移工來源國當初在開放的時候都是要透過那到底是勞動部做還是外交部做\n都有,都有幫忙,都有協助勞動部有做,外交部也有做就是我們要引進移工的這個心得來源一定要做一些評估啊所以你還是提不出任何證據任何會議記錄說有做評估嘛,對不對你們你們\n有提供資訊嗎?\n委員好 因為這個案子主政單位是勞動部 那我們外交部在這個案子事實上是採取一個協助的一個立場 那我們就是我們外管就是我們駐印度代表處有協助 協助相關的資訊 那這些相關的資訊我們應勞動部的要求我們也都有轉給勞動部的單位來看好 那我請問一下你提供給他的資料是\n我們提供的資料這些都是機密所以當初我們想要調閱想要了解你們評估所以說不能提供給立委知情對不對對因為這個依據這個我們文書處理手冊不能提供給立委知情那勞動部可以對外公開說嗎\n主席不好意思給我2分鐘那我請問一下\n因為我們覺得真的很納悶我沒有想到連這個外交引進也都列入機密 講兩點就像黑箱一樣 我不知道為什麼現在民進黨政府疫苗也要黑箱軍購也要黑箱 連這個外勞引進都列入機密也要黑箱 難道這個到時候也要封存30年嗎報告委員 這個我們都依照這個法律 相關的法規在進行 如同我剛剛講的\n有﹗有﹗\n那這個是不是針對擬定外勞政策針對勞資政三方最重要平台由他引進都要由他來做評估對不對不用不用不需要不用需不需要\n需不需要請他來做評估跟委員報告這個政策小組主要是針對現行在開放的情況之下就目前已開放的來源國到國內那我請問一下勞動部針對這部分是哪一個單位在做評估剛剛部長說有做評估是誰在做評估那個剛剛委員報告是因為在MOU在整個掐簽過程當中不是我問你誰在做評估嗎\n我們現在是行政的內部要透過相關的資訊的收集之後所以你說跨國勞動力政策協商小組是不是在做這個工作的?沒有那這個單位還有功能嗎?有\n還有功能那我說實在我請問一下部長你們說有討論可是你真的提不出一些具體的而且到底有哪個單位在做而且這個跨國勞動力政策協商小組你還好你說他沒有做三年六次的會議針對這印度移工的問題\n知智慧體從頭到尾都沒有討論過所以我希望我們這個勞動部在這之前希望一定要說服大眾要做一個完整的評估然後針對我們這些問題\n之前你自己在講你在網路節目講外交部正在幫勞動部停工你自己去看你在網路政論節目講的然後你說這些印勞都來自東北的省份生活習慣跟我們相近而且多事是基督徒我真的很想知道你這些訊息到底是哪裡來的你真的有需要說清楚講明白難怪我們民間常常謠言說\n說這個外勞的引進是綠營金主想要做這個外勞的生意而且我不希望把我們這些民間的質疑都無限上綱都推到對岸的認知戰阿共的陰謀你沒有辦法交代的事情就是阿共的陰謀對岸的認知戰所以我今天等一下會有再臨時提案\n針對我們今天這個印度移工外勞引進我們針對希望我們縣市政府一定要舉辦說明會還有盤整我們現有的同意功能還有針對我們現有社會影響評估勞動市場評估還有政策可行性評估你們一定要提出做一個完整的報告到時候也要請我們勞資政學還有仲介代表\n來召開這個公聽會那還有針對我們現在逃逸外勞的現象你們一直沒有提出一個完善的改善的方式我們希望你能夠提出一個階段性的完善改善方式我們再來提這個印度移工的問題不然這個問題你再引進絕對造成我們台灣社會民眾很大的疑慮在這邊希望我們部長勞動部能夠幫忙謝謝\n好,我們謝謝涂權吉委員進行的質詢\n","vtt":"WEBVTT\n\n00:16.926 --> 00:19.570\n好謝謝主席那請我們部長好有請部長圖仁浩\n\n00:29.209 --> 00:48.336\n好部長我請問一下針對我們這個印度移工的這個政策其實一直以來從大家知道以後就一直紛紛擾擾那我們勞動部也針對印度這些說了很多的事情但是我們注意到有很多沒有說的有幾個重點像印度他有多達20幾\n\n00:50.437 --> 01:13.594\n幾種的官方語言而且他現在印度教跟慕林斯這個衝突也是日益升高那而且針對我們國際數據網站statist在2022年他就有針對印度就有發生過3萬多起的性侵的事件而且重點他也指出這個受害者他常在警局撤銷\n\n01:15.376 --> 01:31.187\n這個告訴撤銷的、被迫撤銷的比例非常非常的高表示他們這個常常都受到很多社會上壓力、屈服、妥協變成這些受害婦女到警局以後反而是撤銷他的告訴\n\n01:32.028 --> 01:56.570\n那而且這個世界銀行性別統計的資料庫也顯示15歲到49歲印度的女性中有6%就遭受過這個性暴力的對待那我請問一下你不斷在我們的大眾對於印度移工我們部長一直有說我們針對這個引進有歧視的心理甚至有這個\n\n01:57.851 --> 02:03.114\n報告委員因為你剛剛所講的這些大概就是印度他國內的一個狀況但是我們現在所瞭解的是印度在1800萬在海外的移工的\n\n02:27.765 --> 02:56.742\n的一個他們工作狀況他其實是OK的包括說他的素質他的工作能力其實他在18001800分部在世界各國他的工作能力是受大家肯定的犯罪率也是比起可能他進的工作國家還要低再來我要跟委員說明其實我們開放移工已經35年現在四個移工來源國包括未來印度都是一樣第一個你要到台灣來工作第一個一定\n\n02:57.142 --> 02:57.903\n我請問一下,重點是說,他針對這個國際數據網站等等他所報導的\n\n03:16.016 --> 03:36.291\n難道他們也是在做認知戰嗎我沒有說他做認知戰我剛剛是跟委員說您說了這是他可能他就他國內的一個情形做說明但是我移工要引進我會有一些條件就是說你來第一個對資源不能有影響好沒關係所以這些數據你也是承認也是同意的嘛對不對針對這些數據這個如果是\n\n03:39.553 --> 03:58.929\n國際的數據當然那評比那個我們必須就是尊重他的一個說明所以重點但是我是說我要說明就是說我們瞭解這些狀況但是我移工的引進我一定要確保好我的重點是說所以這些數據跟對岸阻撓其實是沒有關係的嘛這些數據跟對岸認知戰是沒有關係的嘛對不對\n\n04:02.912 --> 04:26.258\n報告委員我們講的那是說當初去年大概11月的時候說我們要引進10萬名印度移工這件事情是假訊息啊好沒關係我現在重點是說我希望我們勞動部在做這些處理事情不要很多事情沒有辦法處理沒有辦法交代都無限上剛推到老共的身上我們針對部長我覺得你們講話也要負責不要說什麼事情都推到說對岸\n\n04:31.620 --> 04:40.710\n公開有阻撓那我請問一下你們說你在在接受採訪的時候說有公開阻撓我想請問一下那他是怎麼阻撓你可以告訴我們嗎\n\n04:44.380 --> 04:45.541\n其實這些事情很多\n\n05:14.500 --> 05:30.032\n他的主腦有很多方式但是我要講像去年那一年底那件事情所謂認知這是有經過國安單位的一個瞭解之後認為有這麼一回事部長我覺得你講的真的都很不明確\n\n05:32.884 --> 05:41.130\n那我請問一下那針對印度移工入境可能負面的影響那當然我們政府有這個責任要做完整的評估來說服大眾那我請問一下在整個引進的過程中我們勞動部有做研究評估嗎?\n\n06:01.513 --> 06:22.052\n我們有評估過啊我們勞動部自己有做評估嗎?勞動部有做嗎?我們自己內部有評估啊你有評估報告嗎?評估的資訊啦你有評估報告有會議紀錄嗎?那不是會議紀錄啦所以提不出任何評估報告嗎?\n\n06:23.452 --> 06:49.244\n我們的資訊的收集之後所以你一說勞動部有做就對了我們有做評估啦那我請問一下那你在網路節目說是外交部在幫勞動部做評估是不是你是不是這樣講協助協助收集資料所以你說外交部是協助我們任何移工來源國當初在開放的時候都是要透過那到底是勞動部做還是外交部做\n\n06:50.305 --> 07:04.537\n都有,都有幫忙,都有協助勞動部有做,外交部也有做就是我們要引進移工的這個心得來源一定要做一些評估啊所以你還是提不出任何證據任何會議記錄說有做評估嘛,對不對你們你們\n\n07:08.386 --> 07:08.526\n有提供資訊嗎?\n\n07:30.818 --> 07:55.470\n委員好因為這個案子主政單位是勞動部那我們外交部在這個案子事實上是採取一個協助的一個立場那我們就是我們外管就是我們駐印度代表處有協助協助相關的資訊那這些相關的資訊我們應勞動部的要求我們也都有轉給勞動部的單位來看好那我請問一下你提供給他的資料是\n\n07:57.011 --> 08:14.850\n我們提供的資料這些都是機密所以當初我們想要調閱想要了解你們評估所以說不能提供給立委知情對不對對因為這個依據這個我們文書處理手冊不能提供給立委知情那勞動部可以對外公開說嗎\n\n08:18.410 --> 08:19.351\n主席不好意思給我2分鐘那我請問一下\n\n08:33.846 --> 08:58.302\n因為我們覺得真的很納悶我沒有想到連這個外交引進也都列入機密講兩點就像黑箱一樣我不知道為什麼現在民進黨政府疫苗也要黑箱軍購也要黑箱連這個外勞引進都列入機密也要黑箱難道這個到時候也要封存30年嗎報告委員這個我們都依照這個法律相關的法規在進行如同我剛剛講的\n\n08:59.343 --> 08:59.783\n有﹗有﹗\n\n09:20.390 --> 09:33.671\n那這個是不是針對擬定外勞政策針對勞資政三方最重要平台由他引進都要由他來做評估對不對不用不用不需要不用需不需要\n\n09:35.325 --> 09:58.100\n需不需要請他來做評估跟委員報告這個政策小組主要是針對現行在開放的情況之下就目前已開放的來源國到國內那我請問一下勞動部針對這部分是哪一個單位在做評估剛剛部長說有做評估是誰在做評估那個剛剛委員報告是因為在MOU在整個掐簽過程當中不是我問你誰在做評估嗎\n\n09:59.421 --> 10:11.558\n我們現在是行政的內部要透過相關的資訊的收集之後所以你說跨國勞動力政策協商小組是不是在做這個工作的?沒有那這個單位還有功能嗎?有\n\n10:13.268 --> 10:32.248\n還有功能那我說實在我請問一下部長你們說有討論可是你真的提不出一些具體的而且到底有哪個單位在做而且這個跨國勞動力政策協商小組你還好你說他沒有做三年六次的會議針對這印度移工的問題\n\n10:33.109 --> 10:45.413\n知智慧體從頭到尾都沒有討論過所以我希望我們這個勞動部在這之前希望一定要說服大眾要做一個完整的評估然後針對我們這些問題\n\n10:48.874 --> 11:10.810\n之前你自己在講你在網路節目講外交部正在幫勞動部停工你自己去看你在網路政論節目講的然後你說這些印勞都來自東北的省份生活習慣跟我們相近而且多事是基督徒我真的很想知道你這些訊息到底是哪裡來的你真的有需要說清楚講明白難怪我們民間常常謠言說\n\n11:15.173 --> 11:33.730\n說這個外勞的引進是綠營金主想要做這個外勞的生意而且我不希望把我們這些民間的質疑都無限上綱都推到對岸的認知戰阿共的陰謀你沒有辦法交代的事情就是阿共的陰謀對岸的認知戰所以我今天等一下會有再臨時提案\n\n11:35.411 --> 11:56.238\n針對我們今天這個印度移工外勞引進我們針對希望我們縣市政府一定要舉辦說明會還有盤整我們現有的同意功能還有針對我們現有社會影響評估勞動市場評估還有政策可行性評估你們一定要提出做一個完整的報告到時候也要請我們勞資政學還有仲介代表\n\n11:57.178 --> 12:20.049\n來召開這個公聽會那還有針對我們現在逃逸外勞的現象你們一直沒有提出一個完善的改善的方式我們希望你能夠提出一個階段性的完善改善方式我們再來提這個印度移工的問題不然這個問題你再引進絕對造成我們台灣社會民眾很大的疑慮在這邊希望我們部長勞動部能夠幫忙謝謝\n\n12:23.171 --> 12:26.140\n好,我們謝謝涂權吉委員進行的質詢\n\n","segments":[{"start":16.926,"end":19.57,"text":"好謝謝主席那請我們部長好有請部長圖仁浩"},{"start":29.209,"end":48.336,"text":"好部長我請問一下針對我們這個印度移工的這個政策其實一直以來從大家知道以後就一直紛紛擾擾那我們勞動部也針對印度這些說了很多的事情但是我們注意到有很多沒有說的有幾個重點像印度他有多達20幾"},{"start":50.437,"end":73.594,"text":"幾種的官方語言而且他現在印度教跟慕林斯這個衝突也是日益升高那而且針對我們國際數據網站statist在2022年他就有針對印度就有發生過3萬多起的性侵的事件而且重點他也指出這個受害者他常在警局撤銷"},{"start":75.376,"end":91.187,"text":"這個告訴撤銷的、被迫撤銷的比例非常非常的高表示他們這個常常都受到很多社會上壓力、屈服、妥協變成這些受害婦女到警局以後反而是撤銷他的告訴"},{"start":92.028,"end":116.57,"text":"那而且這個世界銀行性別統計的資料庫也顯示15歲到49歲印度的女性中有6%就遭受過這個性暴力的對待那我請問一下你不斷在我們的大眾對於印度移工我們部長一直有說我們針對這個引進有歧視的心理甚至有這個"},{"start":117.851,"end":123.114,"text":"報告委員因為你剛剛所講的這些大概就是印度他國內的一個狀況但是我們現在所瞭解的是印度在1800萬在海外的移工的"},{"start":147.765,"end":176.742,"text":"的一個他們工作狀況他其實是OK的包括說他的素質他的工作能力其實他在18001800分部在世界各國他的工作能力是受大家肯定的犯罪率也是比起可能他進的工作國家還要低再來我要跟委員說明其實我們開放移工已經35年現在四個移工來源國包括未來印度都是一樣第一個你要到台灣來工作第一個一定"},{"start":177.142,"end":177.903,"text":"我請問一下,重點是說,他針對這個國際數據網站等等他所報導的"},{"start":196.016,"end":216.291,"text":"難道他們也是在做認知戰嗎我沒有說他做認知戰我剛剛是跟委員說您說了這是他可能他就他國內的一個情形做說明但是我移工要引進我會有一些條件就是說你來第一個對資源不能有影響好沒關係所以這些數據你也是承認也是同意的嘛對不對針對這些數據這個如果是"},{"start":219.553,"end":238.929,"text":"國際的數據當然那評比那個我們必須就是尊重他的一個說明所以重點但是我是說我要說明就是說我們瞭解這些狀況但是我移工的引進我一定要確保好我的重點是說所以這些數據跟對岸阻撓其實是沒有關係的嘛這些數據跟對岸認知戰是沒有關係的嘛對不對"},{"start":242.912,"end":266.258,"text":"報告委員我們講的那是說當初去年大概11月的時候說我們要引進10萬名印度移工這件事情是假訊息啊好沒關係我現在重點是說我希望我們勞動部在做這些處理事情不要很多事情沒有辦法處理沒有辦法交代都無限上剛推到老共的身上我們針對部長我覺得你們講話也要負責不要說什麼事情都推到說對岸"},{"start":271.62,"end":280.71,"text":"公開有阻撓那我請問一下你們說你在在接受採訪的時候說有公開阻撓我想請問一下那他是怎麼阻撓你可以告訴我們嗎"},{"start":284.38,"end":285.541,"text":"其實這些事情很多"},{"start":314.5,"end":330.032,"text":"他的主腦有很多方式但是我要講像去年那一年底那件事情所謂認知這是有經過國安單位的一個瞭解之後認為有這麼一回事部長我覺得你講的真的都很不明確"},{"start":332.884,"end":341.13,"text":"那我請問一下那針對印度移工入境可能負面的影響那當然我們政府有這個責任要做完整的評估來說服大眾那我請問一下在整個引進的過程中我們勞動部有做研究評估嗎?"},{"start":361.513,"end":382.052,"text":"我們有評估過啊我們勞動部自己有做評估嗎?勞動部有做嗎?我們自己內部有評估啊你有評估報告嗎?評估的資訊啦你有評估報告有會議紀錄嗎?那不是會議紀錄啦所以提不出任何評估報告嗎?"},{"start":383.452,"end":409.244,"text":"我們的資訊的收集之後所以你一說勞動部有做就對了我們有做評估啦那我請問一下那你在網路節目說是外交部在幫勞動部做評估是不是你是不是這樣講協助協助收集資料所以你說外交部是協助我們任何移工來源國當初在開放的時候都是要透過那到底是勞動部做還是外交部做"},{"start":410.305,"end":424.537,"text":"都有,都有幫忙,都有協助勞動部有做,外交部也有做就是我們要引進移工的這個心得來源一定要做一些評估啊所以你還是提不出任何證據任何會議記錄說有做評估嘛,對不對你們你們"},{"start":428.386,"end":428.526,"text":"有提供資訊嗎?"},{"start":450.818,"end":475.47,"text":"委員好 因為這個案子主政單位是勞動部 那我們外交部在這個案子事實上是採取一個協助的一個立場 那我們就是我們外管就是我們駐印度代表處有協助 協助相關的資訊 那這些相關的資訊我們應勞動部的要求我們也都有轉給勞動部的單位來看好 那我請問一下你提供給他的資料是"},{"start":477.011,"end":494.85,"text":"我們提供的資料這些都是機密所以當初我們想要調閱想要了解你們評估所以說不能提供給立委知情對不對對因為這個依據這個我們文書處理手冊不能提供給立委知情那勞動部可以對外公開說嗎"},{"start":498.41,"end":499.351,"text":"主席不好意思給我2分鐘那我請問一下"},{"start":513.846,"end":538.302,"text":"因為我們覺得真的很納悶我沒有想到連這個外交引進也都列入機密 講兩點就像黑箱一樣 我不知道為什麼現在民進黨政府疫苗也要黑箱軍購也要黑箱 連這個外勞引進都列入機密也要黑箱 難道這個到時候也要封存30年嗎報告委員 這個我們都依照這個法律 相關的法規在進行 如同我剛剛講的"},{"start":539.343,"end":539.783,"text":"有﹗有﹗"},{"start":560.39,"end":573.671,"text":"那這個是不是針對擬定外勞政策針對勞資政三方最重要平台由他引進都要由他來做評估對不對不用不用不需要不用需不需要"},{"start":575.325,"end":598.1,"text":"需不需要請他來做評估跟委員報告這個政策小組主要是針對現行在開放的情況之下就目前已開放的來源國到國內那我請問一下勞動部針對這部分是哪一個單位在做評估剛剛部長說有做評估是誰在做評估那個剛剛委員報告是因為在MOU在整個掐簽過程當中不是我問你誰在做評估嗎"},{"start":599.421,"end":611.558,"text":"我們現在是行政的內部要透過相關的資訊的收集之後所以你說跨國勞動力政策協商小組是不是在做這個工作的?沒有那這個單位還有功能嗎?有"},{"start":613.268,"end":632.248,"text":"還有功能那我說實在我請問一下部長你們說有討論可是你真的提不出一些具體的而且到底有哪個單位在做而且這個跨國勞動力政策協商小組你還好你說他沒有做三年六次的會議針對這印度移工的問題"},{"start":633.109,"end":645.413,"text":"知智慧體從頭到尾都沒有討論過所以我希望我們這個勞動部在這之前希望一定要說服大眾要做一個完整的評估然後針對我們這些問題"},{"start":648.874,"end":670.81,"text":"之前你自己在講你在網路節目講外交部正在幫勞動部停工你自己去看你在網路政論節目講的然後你說這些印勞都來自東北的省份生活習慣跟我們相近而且多事是基督徒我真的很想知道你這些訊息到底是哪裡來的你真的有需要說清楚講明白難怪我們民間常常謠言說"},{"start":675.173,"end":693.73,"text":"說這個外勞的引進是綠營金主想要做這個外勞的生意而且我不希望把我們這些民間的質疑都無限上綱都推到對岸的認知戰阿共的陰謀你沒有辦法交代的事情就是阿共的陰謀對岸的認知戰所以我今天等一下會有再臨時提案"},{"start":695.411,"end":716.238,"text":"針對我們今天這個印度移工外勞引進我們針對希望我們縣市政府一定要舉辦說明會還有盤整我們現有的同意功能還有針對我們現有社會影響評估勞動市場評估還有政策可行性評估你們一定要提出做一個完整的報告到時候也要請我們勞資政學還有仲介代表"},{"start":717.178,"end":740.049,"text":"來召開這個公聽會那還有針對我們現在逃逸外勞的現象你們一直沒有提出一個完善的改善的方式我們希望你能夠提出一個階段性的完善改善方式我們再來提這個印度移工的問題不然這個問題你再引進絕對造成我們台灣社會民眾很大的疑慮在這邊希望我們部長勞動部能夠幫忙謝謝"},{"start":743.171,"end":746.14,"text":"好,我們謝謝涂權吉委員進行的質詢"}]}}}}