{"id":149371,"url":"https://ivod.ly.gov.tw/Play/Clip/1M/149371","video_url":"https://ivod-lyvod.cdn.hinet.net/vod_1/_definst_/mp4:1MClips/aa454a369d2b172fa969d475303798a390274675d1217385f8ba9b0039caa7a64142d2a0b64639c95ea18f28b6918d91.mp4/playlist.m3u8","委員名稱":"馬文君","委員發言時間":"11:04:11 - 11:14:01","影片長度":"00:09:50","會議時間":"2024-03-06T09:00:00+08:00","會議名稱":"立法院第11屆第1會期外交及國防委員會第2次全體委員會議（事由：邀請國軍退除役官兵輔導委員會主任委員馮世寬報告業務概況，並備質詢。）","meet":{"tmpMeeting":null,"title":"第11屆第1會期外交及國防委員會第2次全體委員會議","term":11,"type":"委員會","sessionPeriod":1,"sessionTimes":2,"committees":[35],"id":"委員會-11-1-35-2"},"date":"2024-03-06","duration":590,"end_time":"2024-03-06T11:14:01+08:00","start_time":"2024-03-06T11:04:11+08:00","features":["ai-transcript","gazette"],"type":"Clip","gazette":{"lineno":485,"blocks":[["馬委員文君：（11時4分）謝謝召委，麻煩請馮主委。"],["主席：主委，你的聲音還可以啦齁？來，請。他今天喉嚨……剛才沒有聲音。"],["馬委員文君：主委早安。好久不見，沒關係，待會兒適時的回答，不過因為我們今天要探討的重點還是跟過去我們關注的政策方向大概有一致，可是有一些是需要我們做修正的，在這裡也要請主委可能再就這個部分我們再去加強，或者再提供相關的資訊，待會我們大概會探討的是這些。不過在這裡還是要謝謝主委，因為您是現在很多官員裡面少數敢言，還有敢說自己想法或者自己見解的一個官員，在這裡剛剛也聽到很多的備詢……"],["馮主任委員世寬：謝謝。"],["馬委員文君：所以在這裡要謝謝主委也捍衛我們自己國軍的同袍弟兄。在這裡也首先要恭喜，因為在業務報告裡面也提到，北榮列入了全球的最佳醫院，其實這非常不容易，所以可見當時我們在設立榮民醫院這樣一個主軸功能，然後我們不斷的提供了非常多的人力資源、非常優秀的相關的醫療條件，所以讓北榮、中榮還有高雄榮總，其實這幾個醫院都讓民眾非常的信任，也可以擠進全球的250強的醫院，其實非常不容易，我們也希望我們退輔會在很多人力資源上的運用，也可以持續依循這樣的方向。因為除了照顧榮民以外，其實所有全體國人相對的也都會受到很多相關的照顧，我覺得這個也是大家信任的原因。","接下來我們要討論的是，2月的時候驚傳高雄岡山榮民之家的委外廠商把一百多名照服員的年終獎金，總共大概六百八十多萬元捲款潛逃，到現在有聯絡上這個負責人了嗎？"],["周處長興國：委員好，我是就養養護處處長周興國。就我所知目前那個魏姓的女性負責人跟她先生是在國外，債權人都是找魏女的先生的父親來求取這筆債權。"],["馬委員文君：那我現在想要請教，因為此事對很多照服員來說真的是非常的不公平，我們現在的榮家有高達八成，將近八成了，因為是79%，八成是靠委外，如果類似這樣的情況發生的時候，其實是造成多輸的局面，包括這個案子就是四輸，公司也好，或者照服員也好，榮家也好，還有包括我們退輔會自己，所以，對我們來說其實非常重要。我想請教一下，因為我們現在是動用預備金嘛，對不對？"],["馮主任委員世寬：沒有。"],["周處長興國：沒有，他原來是年終獎金沒有發放，年終獎金是匯到廠商的戶頭；有關月份的薪資，1月份、2月份的薪資都是在榮家，榮家已經代位發放。"],["馬委員文君：所以你是用代位發放的方式而不是用第二預備金？"],["周處長興國：本來是……不是、不是……"],["馬委員文君：你們有動用預備金嗎？"],["周處長興國：沒有，確定沒有。"],["馬委員文君：那現在的情況要怎麼辦？如果他們所有的一百多位的照服員就集體不做了，那對岡山榮家的照護工作會不會有很大的影響？"],["周處長興國：我來回答一下目前處理的狀況，目前已經委託一家公司來接手……"],["馬委員文君：我知道，另外一家複決的廠商嘛！"],["周處長興國：是，這部分到6月30號都是沒有問題的，至於委員關切的自救會那一方面，他已經向臺南市政府提出申請，運通已經交由一個顧問公司來辦理相關大量解僱的計畫以及個人的薪資計算，等到臺南市府收集完之後，他們勞資雙方開始調……"],["馬委員文君：好，沒關係，這個處置的過程還包括你後續的處理，因為那是追究的問題，可是我在這裡想要請教的部分是，這個招標的案子到底是怎麼樣，這個廠商到底是怎麼樣通過評選的？因為我們是用最有利標嘛，這一家廠商到底是怎麼樣通過評選的？就本席得到的資料，這家照護公司是110年才成立，110年喔，它第一個案子就是我們的……是臺南榮家，是嗎？還是岡山？"],["馮主任委員世寬：岡山。"],["周處長興國：岡山榮家。"],["馬委員文君：是岡山榮家，它的第一個案子，可是這一家公司它之前是做什麼的？它是清潔、割草、割樹的，它居然在110年成立的時候，它的第一個案子就是我們的岡山榮家，第二個案子就是高達3億多的最有利標的岡山榮家的照護服務，有關他的服務品質還有他的標價、基本能力、專業能力這些部分，我們當時請來的專家難道都沒有特別去注意這個部分嗎？"],["周處長興國：因為在審核合格廠商的部分，它的業務範圍也有人力派遣這一項……"],["馬委員文君：人力派遣，我剛剛已經講過了，我相信你會比我更清楚，它以前也是做我們榮家的工作，它是我們很重要的一個公司，它大部分都是做榮家的，我們可以看到這個圖上的標示，它大部分都是做我們退輔會的，那其他的工作就是清潔工作、勞務派遣，他的勞務派遣都是割草、割樹，它居然可以得到我們這個招標案，而且還是最有利標，這個還是經過專家審查的，所以這部分本席在這裡請主委特別再查察清楚，因為它涉及的不是只有後續的解決問題，還牽涉到我們有非常多的榮家所面臨的問題。當你在決定這麼重要的工作的時候，而且你幾乎80%都是靠委外人力的時候，你居然選擇這樣的廠商，他做了半年以後就跑了，那我們到底付了多少錢，然後我們到底後續要怎麼做，我覺得這個部分請主委查清楚，好不好？"],["馮主任委員世寬：是的，謝謝委員。"],["馬委員文君：另外，本席還要再請教，榮家要委外經營現在有BOT、ROT的方式，對不對？"],["周處長興國：是。"],["馬委員文君：有臺北、中彰還有就是剛剛我們提到的岡山。"],["周處長興國：是。"],["馬委員文君：為什麼要BOT或ROT？"],["周處長興國：因為我們想榮家有一些空地或是說老舊設施，藉由北、中、南我們選了三家榮家來釋放這個公告，希望說不管是BOT或ROT，希望外面的廠商有興趣來投入……"],["馬委員文君：原因是什麼？"],["周處長興國：就是我們希望建立長照專區來共同執行政府的政策。"],["馬委員文君：你只為了政府的政策，你知道退輔會當初成立的目的還有榮家成立最大的目的是什麼嗎？我們不是為了配合政策，我們不是在衛福部底下的，你當初成立榮家的目的也不是為了營運跟賺錢，最重要的是要安養、照顧我們的榮民。雖然過去前一代的榮民可能都是年長的或者以前的娃娃兵，他可能是單親的，可是我們不斷有新的榮民產生，剛剛有委員提到現在都是年輕的，那你怎麼樣讓現代新一代的榮民相信未來政府可以給予他安養的照顧？你有這麼大的土地不是給財團去BOT或ROT，一次釋出50年、20年，而是你有這麼大的土地，你可以建置一個更好的環境，比如說現在他是安養，他不是全部都失智，不是全部都失能要靠完全照顧的，你可以有一個休憩運動的場所。為什麼我們當時會有這麼大的一個土地面積？我想這是一個考量的重點。","再一次提醒，因為今天時間的關係，不好意思，召委，本席現在要鄭重地提醒，退輔會跟榮家成立的宗旨是要照顧榮民，今天我們募兵已經非常困難了，如果你今天有這麼好的一些條件，你應該與時俱進去思考應該怎麼去做，以後照顧榮民可以更吸引他們的一些方向，而不是給財團有機可乘，謝謝。"],["馮主任委員世寬：謝謝委員。"],["主席：謝謝馬文君委員，主委、處長請回。接下來進行詢答的委員是楊瓊瓔委員。"]],"agenda":{"page_end":382,"meet_id":"委員會-11-1-35-2","speakers":["王定宇","沈伯洋","林楚茵","羅美玲","黃仁","陳永康","徐巧芯","洪申翰","陳冠廷","馬文君","楊瓊瓔","林憶君","謝衣鳯"],"page_start":329,"meetingDate":["2024-03-06"],"gazette_id":"1130601","agenda_lcidc_ids":["1130601_00011"],"meet_name":"立法院第11屆第1會期外交及國防委員會第2次全體委員會議紀錄","content":"邀請國軍退除役官兵輔導委員會主任委員馮世寬報告業務概況，並備質詢","agenda_id":"1130601_00010"}},"transcript":{"id":"149371","pyannote":{"name":"ronny","tool":"pyannote","data":{"url":"https://ivod.ly.gov.tw/Play/Clip/1M/149371","tool":"pyannote","id":"149371-pyannote"},"job_id":"5ryJjXkF2VwivZh8","queued_at":"2024-06-02 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00:00:37,653\n主委早安好久不見沒關係待會事實的回答不過因為我們今天要探討的重點還是跟過去我們關注的大概的政策方向大概有一致可是有一些是需要我們做修正的在這裡邀請主委再\n\n3\n00:00:39,734 --> 00:00:40,134\n馬文君\n\n4\n00:00:55,562 --> 00:00:55,602\n：馬文君\n\n5\n00:01:17,182 --> 00:01:46,176\n因為在業務報告裡面大概北榮列入了我們全球的最佳醫院其實這是非常不容易的所以可見當時我們在設立榮民醫院這樣子的一個主軸功能然後我們不斷的提供了非常多的人力資源非常優秀的相關的醫療這些條件所以讓北榮、中榮還有高雄\n\n6\n00:01:47,176 --> 00:01:51,077\n榮總其實這幾個醫院其實都讓民眾非常的信任那也可以擠進全球的這樣子的一個250強的這樣的醫院其實非常不容易我們也希望我們退府會在很多的人力資源上面的運用也可以持續是依循這樣的方向因為除了照顧榮民以外其實他對所有全體國人其實相對的也會都會受到很多\n\n7\n00:02:16,384 --> 00:02:36,238\n的相關的照顧我覺得這個也是大家信任的原因那可是接下來我們要討論的是在2月的時候我們金船高雄岡山榮民之家這個委外廠商把100多名的兆福遠的年終獎金總共大概680多萬他就捲款潛逃到現在有聯絡上了嗎這個負責人\n\n8\n00:02:45,066 --> 00:03:02,180\n委員好我是救援養護處長周英國那目前就我所知那個負責人未姓女姓的負責人跟他先生目前是在國外那債權都是找到那個未姓他的先生的父親找到他父親來求取這個債權\n\n9\n00:03:03,288 --> 00:03:07,189\n那我現在想要請教的因為這個對很多造福員來說真的是非常的不公平我們現在的榮家有高達八成將近八成因為百分之七十九八成是委外的靠委外如果類似這樣的情況發生的時候其實是造成多數的局面包括這個案子他就是四書公司也好或者造福員也好榮家也好\n\n10\n00:03:31,094 --> 00:03:44,039\n還有包括我們自己我們所有我們退府會所以對我們來說其實非常重要我想請教一下當初這個因為我們現在是動用預備金嘛對不對\n\n11\n00:03:45,373 --> 00:03:51,076\n所以你是用待位發放的方式而不是用第二預備金你們有動用預備金嗎沒有沒有確定一下那現在\n\n12\n00:04:07,464 --> 00:04:08,365\n我來回答一下目前處理的狀況那目前這個已經委託一家公司來接手那這個到6月30號都是沒有問題的\n\n13\n00:04:32,025 --> 00:04:58,338\n那至於自救會那一方面就是委員關切的他已經向台南市政府已經提出申請運通已經交由一個顧問公司來辦理相關大量解雇的計畫以及個人的薪資計算等到台南市我收集完之後他會勞資雙方開始了解沒關係這個處置的過程還包括你後續的因為那個是追究的問題可是我在這裡想要請教的部分\n\n14\n00:04:59,498 --> 00:05:20,313\n這一個招標的案子到底是怎麼這是怎麼樣這個廠商到底是怎麼樣通過評選的因為我們是用最有力標嘛這一家廠商到底是怎麼樣通過評選的就本席得到的資料他是110年才成立這樣的照護公司110年喔他第一個案子就是我們的台我們的是台南農家是嗎\n\n15\n00:05:25,280 --> 00:05:31,172\n還是岡山是岡山人家他的第一個案子可是這一家公司他之前是做什麼的他是清潔割草割樹的\n\n16\n00:05:35,765 --> 00:05:48,327\n他居然在110年成立的時候他第一個案子就是我們的岡山榮家第二個案子就是最有力標裡面高達3億多的這個岡山榮家他的照護服務我們當時難道在他的服務品質還有他的標價基本能力專業能力這一些部分我們請來的專家他難道都沒有特別去注意這個部分嗎\n\n17\n00:06:04,170 --> 00:06:29,226\n因為在審核這個合格廠商的部分他的業務範圍也有人力這一段人力派遣這一段人力派遣他以前我剛才已經講過了我相信你會比我更清楚他以前的工作也是做我們榮家的他是我們很重要的一個公司他都是做榮家他大部分我們可以看到這個土的那個標示他大部分都是做我們退輔會的\n\n18\n00:06:30,146 --> 00:06:42,762\n那其他的工作就是清潔啊勞務派遣他的勞務派遣都是割草割樹啊他居然可以得到我們這個招標的案子而且還是最有利標這個還是經過專家審查的\n\n19\n00:06:45,626 --> 00:06:49,628\n所以這個部分我們在這裡請主委特別再查查清楚因為他不是只有後續的解決問題這個牽涉到我們有非常多的榮家他面臨的問題當你在決定這麼重要的工作的時候而且你幾乎80%都是靠委外人力的時候你居然選擇這樣的廠商他做了半年以後就跑了\n\n20\n00:07:10,080 --> 00:07:10,120\n榮佳委員\n\n21\n00:07:28,719 --> 00:07:40,445\n現在有BOT、ROT的方式對不對有台北、中章還有就是岡山剛剛我們提到的為什麼要BOT或ROT\n\n22\n00:07:41,789 --> 00:08:05,812\n因為我們想就是農家有一些空地或是說老舊設施希望藉由北中南我們選了三家農家來釋放這個公告希望說不管是BOT或ROT希望外面的廠商有興趣來投入原因是什麼投入就是我們希望在這個長照建立長照專區來共同來執行這個政府的政策\n\n23\n00:08:06,670 --> 00:08:12,596\n你只為了政府的政策你知道退輔會當初成立的目的還有榮家成立最大的目的是什麼嗎我們不是為了配合政策我們不是在衛福部底下的你當初成立的也不是為了營運跟賺錢最重要的是要安養照顧我們的榮民\n\n24\n00:08:28,573 --> 00:08:32,096\n雖然過去一代前一代的榮民他可能都是年長的或者以前的娃娃兵他可能是單親的可是我們不斷有新的榮民產生剛剛有委員提到現在都是年輕的那你怎麼樣讓現代新一代的榮民他的未來是可以相信政府可以對他有安養的照顧\n\n25\n00:08:50,293 --> 00:08:53,076\n你有這麼大的土地不是給財團去BOT或ROT一次釋出50年20年而是你有這麼大的土地你可以建置更好的一個環境比如說它是安養它不是全部都失智不是全部都是失能要靠完全照顧的\n\n26\n00:09:08,231 --> 00:09:08,271\n：馬文君\n\n27\n00:09:25,100 --> 00:09:25,120\n謝謝委員\n\n","tsv":"start\tend\ttext\n169\t18025\t馬文君召委謝謝召委麻煩請主委馮主委主委你的聲音還可以啦他今天喉嚨剛才沒有聲音\n21983\t37653\t主委早安好久不見沒關係待會事實的回答不過因為我們今天要探討的重點還是跟過去我們關注的大概的政策方向大概有一致可是有一些是需要我們做修正的在這裡邀請主委再\n39734\t40134\t馬文君\n55562\t55602\t：馬文君\n77182\t106176\t因為在業務報告裡面大概北榮列入了我們全球的最佳醫院其實這是非常不容易的所以可見當時我們在設立榮民醫院這樣子的一個主軸功能然後我們不斷的提供了非常多的人力資源非常優秀的相關的醫療這些條件所以讓北榮、中榮還有高雄\n107176\t111077\t榮總其實這幾個醫院其實都讓民眾非常的信任那也可以擠進全球的這樣子的一個250強的這樣的醫院其實非常不容易我們也希望我們退府會在很多的人力資源上面的運用也可以持續是依循這樣的方向因為除了照顧榮民以外其實他對所有全體國人其實相對的也會都會受到很多\n136384\t156238\t的相關的照顧我覺得這個也是大家信任的原因那可是接下來我們要討論的是在2月的時候我們金船高雄岡山榮民之家這個委外廠商把100多名的兆福遠的年終獎金總共大概680多萬他就捲款潛逃到現在有聯絡上了嗎這個負責人\n165066\t182180\t委員好 我是救援養護處長周英國那目前就我所知那個負責人未姓女姓的負責人跟他先生目前是在國外那債權都是找到那個未姓他的先生的父親找到他父親來求取這個債權\n183288\t187189\t那我現在想要請教的因為這個對很多造福員來說真的是非常的不公平我們現在的榮家有高達八成將近八成因為百分之七十九八成是委外的靠委外如果類似這樣的情況發生的時候其實是造成多數的局面包括這個案子他就是四書公司也好或者造福員也好榮家也好\n211094\t224039\t還有包括我們自己我們所有我們退府會所以對我們來說其實非常重要我想請教一下當初這個因為我們現在是動用預備金嘛對不對\n225373\t231076\t所以你是用待位發放的方式而不是用第二預備金你們有動用預備金嗎沒有沒有確定一下那現在\n247464\t248365\t我來回答一下目前處理的狀況那目前這個已經委託一家公司來接手那這個到6月30號都是沒有問題的\n272025\t298338\t那至於自救會那一方面就是委員關切的他已經向台南市政府已經提出申請運通已經交由一個顧問公司來辦理相關大量解雇的計畫以及個人的薪資計算等到台南市我收集完之後他會勞資雙方開始了解沒關係這個處置的過程還包括你後續的因為那個是追究的問題可是我在這裡想要請教的部分\n299498\t320313\t這一個招標的案子到底是怎麼這是怎麼樣這個廠商到底是怎麼樣通過評選的因為我們是用最有力標嘛這一家廠商到底是怎麼樣通過評選的就本席得到的資料他是110年才成立這樣的照護公司110年喔他第一個案子就是我們的台我們的是台南農家是嗎\n325280\t331172\t還是岡山是岡山人家他的第一個案子可是這一家公司他之前是做什麼的他是清潔割草割樹的\n335765\t348327\t他居然在110年成立的時候他第一個案子就是我們的岡山榮家第二個案子就是最有力標裡面高達3億多的這個岡山榮家他的照護服務我們當時難道在他的服務品質還有他的標價基本能力專業能力這一些部分我們請來的專家他難道都沒有特別去注意這個部分嗎\n364170\t389226\t因為在審核這個合格廠商的部分他的業務範圍也有人力這一段人力派遣這一段人力派遣他以前我剛才已經講過了我相信你會比我更清楚他以前的工作也是做我們榮家的他是我們很重要的一個公司他都是做榮家他大部分我們可以看到這個土的那個標示他大部分都是做我們退輔會的\n390146\t402762\t那其他的工作就是清潔啊勞務派遣他的勞務派遣都是割草割樹啊他居然可以得到我們這個招標的案子而且還是最有利標這個還是經過專家審查的\n405626\t409628\t所以這個部分我們在這裡請主委特別再查查清楚因為他不是只有後續的解決問題這個牽涉到我們有非常多的榮家他面臨的問題當你在決定這麼重要的工作的時候而且你幾乎80%都是靠委外人力的時候你居然選擇這樣的廠商他做了半年以後就跑了\n430080\t430120\t榮佳委員\n448719\t460445\t現在有BOT、ROT的方式對不對有台北、中章還有就是岡山剛剛我們提到的為什麼要BOT或ROT\n461789\t485812\t因為我們想就是農家有一些空地或是說老舊設施希望藉由北中南我們選了三家農家來釋放這個公告希望說不管是BOT或ROT希望外面的廠商有興趣來投入原因是什麼投入就是我們希望在這個長照建立長照專區來共同來執行這個政府的政策\n486670\t492596\t你只為了政府的政策你知道退輔會當初成立的目的還有榮家成立最大的目的是什麼嗎我們不是為了配合政策我們不是在衛福部底下的你當初成立的也不是為了營運跟賺錢最重要的是要安養照顧我們的榮民\n508573\t512096\t雖然過去一代前一代的榮民他可能都是年長的或者以前的娃娃兵他可能是單親的可是我們不斷有新的榮民產生剛剛有委員提到現在都是年輕的那你怎麼樣讓現代新一代的榮民他的未來是可以相信政府可以對他有安養的照顧\n530293\t533076\t你有這麼大的土地不是給財團去BOT或ROT一次釋出50年20年而是你有這麼大的土地你可以建置更好的一個環境比如說它是安養它不是全部都失智不是全部都是失能要靠完全照顧的\n548231\t548271\t：馬文君\n565100\t565120\t謝謝委員\n","txt":"馬文君召委謝謝召委麻煩請主委馮主委主委你的聲音還可以啦他今天喉嚨剛才沒有聲音\n主委早安好久不見沒關係待會事實的回答不過因為我們今天要探討的重點還是跟過去我們關注的大概的政策方向大概有一致可是有一些是需要我們做修正的在這裡邀請主委再\n馬文君\n：馬文君\n因為在業務報告裡面大概北榮列入了我們全球的最佳醫院其實這是非常不容易的所以可見當時我們在設立榮民醫院這樣子的一個主軸功能然後我們不斷的提供了非常多的人力資源非常優秀的相關的醫療這些條件所以讓北榮、中榮還有高雄\n榮總其實這幾個醫院其實都讓民眾非常的信任那也可以擠進全球的這樣子的一個250強的這樣的醫院其實非常不容易我們也希望我們退府會在很多的人力資源上面的運用也可以持續是依循這樣的方向因為除了照顧榮民以外其實他對所有全體國人其實相對的也會都會受到很多\n的相關的照顧我覺得這個也是大家信任的原因那可是接下來我們要討論的是在2月的時候我們金船高雄岡山榮民之家這個委外廠商把100多名的兆福遠的年終獎金總共大概680多萬他就捲款潛逃到現在有聯絡上了嗎這個負責人\n委員好 我是救援養護處長周英國那目前就我所知那個負責人未姓女姓的負責人跟他先生目前是在國外那債權都是找到那個未姓他的先生的父親找到他父親來求取這個債權\n那我現在想要請教的因為這個對很多造福員來說真的是非常的不公平我們現在的榮家有高達八成將近八成因為百分之七十九八成是委外的靠委外如果類似這樣的情況發生的時候其實是造成多數的局面包括這個案子他就是四書公司也好或者造福員也好榮家也好\n還有包括我們自己我們所有我們退府會所以對我們來說其實非常重要我想請教一下當初這個因為我們現在是動用預備金嘛對不對\n所以你是用待位發放的方式而不是用第二預備金你們有動用預備金嗎沒有沒有確定一下那現在\n我來回答一下目前處理的狀況那目前這個已經委託一家公司來接手那這個到6月30號都是沒有問題的\n那至於自救會那一方面就是委員關切的他已經向台南市政府已經提出申請運通已經交由一個顧問公司來辦理相關大量解雇的計畫以及個人的薪資計算等到台南市我收集完之後他會勞資雙方開始了解沒關係這個處置的過程還包括你後續的因為那個是追究的問題可是我在這裡想要請教的部分\n這一個招標的案子到底是怎麼這是怎麼樣這個廠商到底是怎麼樣通過評選的因為我們是用最有力標嘛這一家廠商到底是怎麼樣通過評選的就本席得到的資料他是110年才成立這樣的照護公司110年喔他第一個案子就是我們的台我們的是台南農家是嗎\n還是岡山是岡山人家他的第一個案子可是這一家公司他之前是做什麼的他是清潔割草割樹的\n他居然在110年成立的時候他第一個案子就是我們的岡山榮家第二個案子就是最有力標裡面高達3億多的這個岡山榮家他的照護服務我們當時難道在他的服務品質還有他的標價基本能力專業能力這一些部分我們請來的專家他難道都沒有特別去注意這個部分嗎\n因為在審核這個合格廠商的部分他的業務範圍也有人力這一段人力派遣這一段人力派遣他以前我剛才已經講過了我相信你會比我更清楚他以前的工作也是做我們榮家的他是我們很重要的一個公司他都是做榮家他大部分我們可以看到這個土的那個標示他大部分都是做我們退輔會的\n那其他的工作就是清潔啊勞務派遣他的勞務派遣都是割草割樹啊他居然可以得到我們這個招標的案子而且還是最有利標這個還是經過專家審查的\n所以這個部分我們在這裡請主委特別再查查清楚因為他不是只有後續的解決問題這個牽涉到我們有非常多的榮家他面臨的問題當你在決定這麼重要的工作的時候而且你幾乎80%都是靠委外人力的時候你居然選擇這樣的廠商他做了半年以後就跑了\n榮佳委員\n現在有BOT、ROT的方式對不對有台北、中章還有就是岡山剛剛我們提到的為什麼要BOT或ROT\n因為我們想就是農家有一些空地或是說老舊設施希望藉由北中南我們選了三家農家來釋放這個公告希望說不管是BOT或ROT希望外面的廠商有興趣來投入原因是什麼投入就是我們希望在這個長照建立長照專區來共同來執行這個政府的政策\n你只為了政府的政策你知道退輔會當初成立的目的還有榮家成立最大的目的是什麼嗎我們不是為了配合政策我們不是在衛福部底下的你當初成立的也不是為了營運跟賺錢最重要的是要安養照顧我們的榮民\n雖然過去一代前一代的榮民他可能都是年長的或者以前的娃娃兵他可能是單親的可是我們不斷有新的榮民產生剛剛有委員提到現在都是年輕的那你怎麼樣讓現代新一代的榮民他的未來是可以相信政府可以對他有安養的照顧\n你有這麼大的土地不是給財團去BOT或ROT一次釋出50年20年而是你有這麼大的土地你可以建置更好的一個環境比如說它是安養它不是全部都失智不是全部都是失能要靠完全照顧的\n：馬文君\n謝謝委員\n","vtt":"WEBVTT\n\n00:00.169 --> 00:18.025\n馬文君召委謝謝召委麻煩請主委馮主委主委你的聲音還可以啦他今天喉嚨剛才沒有聲音\n\n00:21.983 --> 00:37.653\n主委早安好久不見沒關係待會事實的回答不過因為我們今天要探討的重點還是跟過去我們關注的大概的政策方向大概有一致可是有一些是需要我們做修正的在這裡邀請主委再\n\n00:39.734 --> 00:40.134\n馬文君\n\n00:55.562 --> 00:55.602\n：馬文君\n\n01:17.182 --> 01:46.176\n因為在業務報告裡面大概北榮列入了我們全球的最佳醫院其實這是非常不容易的所以可見當時我們在設立榮民醫院這樣子的一個主軸功能然後我們不斷的提供了非常多的人力資源非常優秀的相關的醫療這些條件所以讓北榮、中榮還有高雄\n\n01:47.176 --> 01:51.077\n榮總其實這幾個醫院其實都讓民眾非常的信任那也可以擠進全球的這樣子的一個250強的這樣的醫院其實非常不容易我們也希望我們退府會在很多的人力資源上面的運用也可以持續是依循這樣的方向因為除了照顧榮民以外其實他對所有全體國人其實相對的也會都會受到很多\n\n02:16.384 --> 02:36.238\n的相關的照顧我覺得這個也是大家信任的原因那可是接下來我們要討論的是在2月的時候我們金船高雄岡山榮民之家這個委外廠商把100多名的兆福遠的年終獎金總共大概680多萬他就捲款潛逃到現在有聯絡上了嗎這個負責人\n\n02:45.066 --> 03:02.180\n委員好我是救援養護處長周英國那目前就我所知那個負責人未姓女姓的負責人跟他先生目前是在國外那債權都是找到那個未姓他的先生的父親找到他父親來求取這個債權\n\n03:03.288 --> 03:07.189\n那我現在想要請教的因為這個對很多造福員來說真的是非常的不公平我們現在的榮家有高達八成將近八成因為百分之七十九八成是委外的靠委外如果類似這樣的情況發生的時候其實是造成多數的局面包括這個案子他就是四書公司也好或者造福員也好榮家也好\n\n03:31.094 --> 03:44.039\n還有包括我們自己我們所有我們退府會所以對我們來說其實非常重要我想請教一下當初這個因為我們現在是動用預備金嘛對不對\n\n03:45.373 --> 03:51.076\n所以你是用待位發放的方式而不是用第二預備金你們有動用預備金嗎沒有沒有確定一下那現在\n\n04:07.464 --> 04:08.365\n我來回答一下目前處理的狀況那目前這個已經委託一家公司來接手那這個到6月30號都是沒有問題的\n\n04:32.025 --> 04:58.338\n那至於自救會那一方面就是委員關切的他已經向台南市政府已經提出申請運通已經交由一個顧問公司來辦理相關大量解雇的計畫以及個人的薪資計算等到台南市我收集完之後他會勞資雙方開始了解沒關係這個處置的過程還包括你後續的因為那個是追究的問題可是我在這裡想要請教的部分\n\n04:59.498 --> 05:20.313\n這一個招標的案子到底是怎麼這是怎麼樣這個廠商到底是怎麼樣通過評選的因為我們是用最有力標嘛這一家廠商到底是怎麼樣通過評選的就本席得到的資料他是110年才成立這樣的照護公司110年喔他第一個案子就是我們的台我們的是台南農家是嗎\n\n05:25.280 --> 05:31.172\n還是岡山是岡山人家他的第一個案子可是這一家公司他之前是做什麼的他是清潔割草割樹的\n\n05:35.765 --> 05:48.327\n他居然在110年成立的時候他第一個案子就是我們的岡山榮家第二個案子就是最有力標裡面高達3億多的這個岡山榮家他的照護服務我們當時難道在他的服務品質還有他的標價基本能力專業能力這一些部分我們請來的專家他難道都沒有特別去注意這個部分嗎\n\n06:04.170 --> 06:29.226\n因為在審核這個合格廠商的部分他的業務範圍也有人力這一段人力派遣這一段人力派遣他以前我剛才已經講過了我相信你會比我更清楚他以前的工作也是做我們榮家的他是我們很重要的一個公司他都是做榮家他大部分我們可以看到這個土的那個標示他大部分都是做我們退輔會的\n\n06:30.146 --> 06:42.762\n那其他的工作就是清潔啊勞務派遣他的勞務派遣都是割草割樹啊他居然可以得到我們這個招標的案子而且還是最有利標這個還是經過專家審查的\n\n06:45.626 --> 06:49.628\n所以這個部分我們在這裡請主委特別再查查清楚因為他不是只有後續的解決問題這個牽涉到我們有非常多的榮家他面臨的問題當你在決定這麼重要的工作的時候而且你幾乎80%都是靠委外人力的時候你居然選擇這樣的廠商他做了半年以後就跑了\n\n07:10.080 --> 07:10.120\n榮佳委員\n\n07:28.719 --> 07:40.445\n現在有BOT、ROT的方式對不對有台北、中章還有就是岡山剛剛我們提到的為什麼要BOT或ROT\n\n07:41.789 --> 08:05.812\n因為我們想就是農家有一些空地或是說老舊設施希望藉由北中南我們選了三家農家來釋放這個公告希望說不管是BOT或ROT希望外面的廠商有興趣來投入原因是什麼投入就是我們希望在這個長照建立長照專區來共同來執行這個政府的政策\n\n08:06.670 --> 08:12.596\n你只為了政府的政策你知道退輔會當初成立的目的還有榮家成立最大的目的是什麼嗎我們不是為了配合政策我們不是在衛福部底下的你當初成立的也不是為了營運跟賺錢最重要的是要安養照顧我們的榮民\n\n08:28.573 --> 08:32.096\n雖然過去一代前一代的榮民他可能都是年長的或者以前的娃娃兵他可能是單親的可是我們不斷有新的榮民產生剛剛有委員提到現在都是年輕的那你怎麼樣讓現代新一代的榮民他的未來是可以相信政府可以對他有安養的照顧\n\n08:50.293 --> 08:53.076\n你有這麼大的土地不是給財團去BOT或ROT一次釋出50年20年而是你有這麼大的土地你可以建置更好的一個環境比如說它是安養它不是全部都失智不是全部都是失能要靠完全照顧的\n\n09:08.231 --> 09:08.271\n：馬文君\n\n09:25.100 --> 09:25.120\n謝謝委員\n\n","segments":[{"start":0.169,"end":18.025,"text":"馬文君召委謝謝召委麻煩請主委馮主委主委你的聲音還可以啦他今天喉嚨剛才沒有聲音"},{"start":21.983,"end":37.653,"text":"主委早安好久不見沒關係待會事實的回答不過因為我們今天要探討的重點還是跟過去我們關注的大概的政策方向大概有一致可是有一些是需要我們做修正的在這裡邀請主委再"},{"start":39.734,"end":40.134,"text":"馬文君"},{"start":55.562,"end":55.602,"text":"：馬文君"},{"start":77.182,"end":106.176,"text":"因為在業務報告裡面大概北榮列入了我們全球的最佳醫院其實這是非常不容易的所以可見當時我們在設立榮民醫院這樣子的一個主軸功能然後我們不斷的提供了非常多的人力資源非常優秀的相關的醫療這些條件所以讓北榮、中榮還有高雄"},{"start":107.176,"end":111.077,"text":"榮總其實這幾個醫院其實都讓民眾非常的信任那也可以擠進全球的這樣子的一個250強的這樣的醫院其實非常不容易我們也希望我們退府會在很多的人力資源上面的運用也可以持續是依循這樣的方向因為除了照顧榮民以外其實他對所有全體國人其實相對的也會都會受到很多"},{"start":136.384,"end":156.238,"text":"的相關的照顧我覺得這個也是大家信任的原因那可是接下來我們要討論的是在2月的時候我們金船高雄岡山榮民之家這個委外廠商把100多名的兆福遠的年終獎金總共大概680多萬他就捲款潛逃到現在有聯絡上了嗎這個負責人"},{"start":165.066,"end":182.18,"text":"委員好 我是救援養護處長周英國那目前就我所知那個負責人未姓女姓的負責人跟他先生目前是在國外那債權都是找到那個未姓他的先生的父親找到他父親來求取這個債權"},{"start":183.288,"end":187.189,"text":"那我現在想要請教的因為這個對很多造福員來說真的是非常的不公平我們現在的榮家有高達八成將近八成因為百分之七十九八成是委外的靠委外如果類似這樣的情況發生的時候其實是造成多數的局面包括這個案子他就是四書公司也好或者造福員也好榮家也好"},{"start":211.094,"end":224.039,"text":"還有包括我們自己我們所有我們退府會所以對我們來說其實非常重要我想請教一下當初這個因為我們現在是動用預備金嘛對不對"},{"start":225.373,"end":231.076,"text":"所以你是用待位發放的方式而不是用第二預備金你們有動用預備金嗎沒有沒有確定一下那現在"},{"start":247.464,"end":248.365,"text":"我來回答一下目前處理的狀況那目前這個已經委託一家公司來接手那這個到6月30號都是沒有問題的"},{"start":272.025,"end":298.338,"text":"那至於自救會那一方面就是委員關切的他已經向台南市政府已經提出申請運通已經交由一個顧問公司來辦理相關大量解雇的計畫以及個人的薪資計算等到台南市我收集完之後他會勞資雙方開始了解沒關係這個處置的過程還包括你後續的因為那個是追究的問題可是我在這裡想要請教的部分"},{"start":299.498,"end":320.313,"text":"這一個招標的案子到底是怎麼這是怎麼樣這個廠商到底是怎麼樣通過評選的因為我們是用最有力標嘛這一家廠商到底是怎麼樣通過評選的就本席得到的資料他是110年才成立這樣的照護公司110年喔他第一個案子就是我們的台我們的是台南農家是嗎"},{"start":325.28,"end":331.172,"text":"還是岡山是岡山人家他的第一個案子可是這一家公司他之前是做什麼的他是清潔割草割樹的"},{"start":335.765,"end":348.327,"text":"他居然在110年成立的時候他第一個案子就是我們的岡山榮家第二個案子就是最有力標裡面高達3億多的這個岡山榮家他的照護服務我們當時難道在他的服務品質還有他的標價基本能力專業能力這一些部分我們請來的專家他難道都沒有特別去注意這個部分嗎"},{"start":364.17,"end":389.226,"text":"因為在審核這個合格廠商的部分他的業務範圍也有人力這一段人力派遣這一段人力派遣他以前我剛才已經講過了我相信你會比我更清楚他以前的工作也是做我們榮家的他是我們很重要的一個公司他都是做榮家他大部分我們可以看到這個土的那個標示他大部分都是做我們退輔會的"},{"start":390.146,"end":402.762,"text":"那其他的工作就是清潔啊勞務派遣他的勞務派遣都是割草割樹啊他居然可以得到我們這個招標的案子而且還是最有利標這個還是經過專家審查的"},{"start":405.626,"end":409.628,"text":"所以這個部分我們在這裡請主委特別再查查清楚因為他不是只有後續的解決問題這個牽涉到我們有非常多的榮家他面臨的問題當你在決定這麼重要的工作的時候而且你幾乎80%都是靠委外人力的時候你居然選擇這樣的廠商他做了半年以後就跑了"},{"start":430.08,"end":430.12,"text":"榮佳委員"},{"start":448.719,"end":460.445,"text":"現在有BOT、ROT的方式對不對有台北、中章還有就是岡山剛剛我們提到的為什麼要BOT或ROT"},{"start":461.789,"end":485.812,"text":"因為我們想就是農家有一些空地或是說老舊設施希望藉由北中南我們選了三家農家來釋放這個公告希望說不管是BOT或ROT希望外面的廠商有興趣來投入原因是什麼投入就是我們希望在這個長照建立長照專區來共同來執行這個政府的政策"},{"start":486.67,"end":492.596,"text":"你只為了政府的政策你知道退輔會當初成立的目的還有榮家成立最大的目的是什麼嗎我們不是為了配合政策我們不是在衛福部底下的你當初成立的也不是為了營運跟賺錢最重要的是要安養照顧我們的榮民"},{"start":508.573,"end":512.096,"text":"雖然過去一代前一代的榮民他可能都是年長的或者以前的娃娃兵他可能是單親的可是我們不斷有新的榮民產生剛剛有委員提到現在都是年輕的那你怎麼樣讓現代新一代的榮民他的未來是可以相信政府可以對他有安養的照顧"},{"start":530.293,"end":533.076,"text":"你有這麼大的土地不是給財團去BOT或ROT一次釋出50年20年而是你有這麼大的土地你可以建置更好的一個環境比如說它是安養它不是全部都失智不是全部都是失能要靠完全照顧的"},{"start":548.231,"end":548.271,"text":"：馬文君"},{"start":565.1,"end":565.12,"text":"謝謝委員"}]}}}}