{"id":149374,"url":"https://ivod.ly.gov.tw/Play/Clip/1M/149374","video_url":"https://ivod-lyvod.cdn.hinet.net/vod_1/_definst_/mp4:1MClips/aa454a369d2b172f8aaa90945c56cfc2b97b2be93641c974f8ba9b0039caa7a69ec81ceb8b49550d5ea18f28b6918d91.mp4/playlist.m3u8","委員名稱":"徐欣瑩","委員發言時間":"09:27:50 - 09:40:01","影片長度":"00:12:11","會議時間":"2024-03-06T09:00:00+08:00","會議名稱":"立法院第11屆第1會期內政委員會第3次全體委員會議（事由：邀請大陸委員會主任委員及交通部次長、交通部觀光署署長就「赴陸旅遊團停招：決策過程與後續影響評估」進行專題報告，並備質詢。）","meet":{"tmpMeeting":null,"title":"第11屆第1會期內政委員會第3次全體委員會議","term":11,"type":"委員會","sessionPeriod":1,"sessionTimes":3,"committees":[15],"id":"委員會-11-1-15-3"},"date":"2024-03-06","duration":731,"end_time":"2024-03-06T09:40:01+08:00","start_time":"2024-03-06T09:27:50+08:00","features":["ai-transcript","gazette"],"type":"Clip","gazette":{"lineno":112,"blocks":[["徐委員欣瑩：（9時28分）主席、在座各位官員、各位委員還有各位媒體先進，大家好。本席有請陸委會邱主委。"],["主席：有請邱主委。"],["邱主任委員太三：徐委員好。"],["徐委員欣瑩：主委好。首先，本席還是要就剛剛我的程序發言被民進黨委員打斷的事情做個補充。我第8屆擔任立法委員時，我看到行政單位的報告都是非常充實的，但是我們這兩次的會議，我發現民進黨執政8年以來，行政單位專案報告的文字字體越放越大，行距越來越寬，頁數越來越少，然後內容越來越空泛，剛剛也看到這個報告提來我們委員會的時間又很短，等於很急促。再來就是，本席要就今天陸委會提供的這個報告提問，你有把題目放上去耶，那為什麼禮拜一的沒有放？"],["邱主任委員太三：我想還有問題嘛，禮拜一的……"],["徐委員欣瑩：我沒有要你回答，沒關係。"],["邱主任委員太三：你不是要問我？我現在回答。"],["徐委員欣瑩：沒有，我還沒請你回答，OK，請你暫停。"],["邱主任委員太三：我暫停。"],["徐委員欣瑩：今天有放題目，禮拜一沒有放題目，很明顯就是故意的嘛！非常非常不尊重，所以本席在這邊要再次強調，如果對召委制定的題目有意見，那可以溝通，但是請尊重。禮拜一是因為主要的內容是在海洋委員會，所以你沒放題目，我只是點到，但今天我們看得很明顯，你的行為就告訴大家，你禮拜一故意不放。","接著我們來看，今天我有很認真聽，雖然頁數很少，但我很認真聽了主委的報告。我們現在突然間宣布停止組團到大陸去，第一個理由說是逆差，兩岸觀光消費長期以來逆差，那我覺得很好笑，我們政府是民進黨執政，既然逆差，你為什麼不想辦法去改變這個問題？你為什麼不想辦法去邀請大陸團過來，反而你是忽視還有損害民眾去大陸觀光的權益。民進黨執政真的很有趣，食衣住行育樂，食衣住行大家已經哀哀叫了，現在連最基本的育樂──組團去大陸，你都可以這樣子政策反反覆覆。所以第一個，講到逆差，本席要跟陸委會說，你要去溝通，你要去邀請他們來啊，要想辦法賺大陸的錢，這是第一點。","第二個，您提到M503航路的改變，那也一樣啊，我們選出政府來是要做什麼？如果他改變，你有去溝通嗎？這就回答「有」或「沒有」，你有沒有去溝通？"],["邱主任委員太三：當然有啊！問題是他基於政治上的考量，想要干預臺灣的選舉，做了這樣的一個決策啊！"],["徐委員欣瑩：那很奇怪，為什麼馬政府時代的時候OK？其實馬政府時代那時候他們也有意要運行M503的航線，在馬政府的時候，他們談一談，談好就可以，等於這個航線他就沒有這樣改變，他就取消了，所以這是不是表示出國民黨執政比民進黨執政能夠有效的溝通，能夠為我們民眾帶來權益？"],["邱主任委員太三：第一個……"],["徐委員欣瑩：好，OK，我沒有要你回答。因為你講有溝通，但是對方還是沒辦法，所以顯示出你就是沒辦法。","第三個，你說是反間諜法，那我現在要跟大家說，很有趣喔，中國大陸的反間諜法是在去年的7月1號就生效了，可是我們政府在去年8月24號的時候，你就宣布要開放啦！奇怪了！你那時宣布要開放的時候沒有發現反間諜法也生效了嗎？現在來說反間諜法有意義嗎？這是什麼邏輯？神邏輯啊！你這是神邏輯啊！所以這是自相矛盾……"],["邱主任委員太三：完全不自相矛盾、完全不……"],["徐委員欣瑩：全部都是你在說、全部都是你在說。"],["邱主任委員太三：這也是你自己在說啦！"],["徐委員欣瑩：哪裡？2023年7月1日……"],["邱主任委員太三：我可以回答了喔？我可以回答了喔？"],["徐委員欣瑩：沒有、沒有，你說我在說，大家可以去查。"],["邱主任委員太三：對，我要說明……"],["徐委員欣瑩：反間諜法在去年7月1日生效，民進黨政府在去年8月24日宣布開放，那時候為什麼沒有反間諜法的疑慮？有啊！所以這個我們只能說民進黨執政想做什麼就做什麼，政策反覆，好不好？政策反覆……"],["邱主任委員太三：這個我不接受。"],["徐委員欣瑩：你不接受，那我想請問，現在我們又有這個禁團令，然後講到損害國家利益，其實所謂的損害國家利益，我不知道，這個意思太含混啊！怎麼樣損害國家利益？這個……"],["邱主任委員太三：我可以回答了喔？"],["徐委員欣瑩：對，你可以回答……"],["邱主任委員太三：第一個、我從前面開始……"],["徐委員欣瑩：請簡要地回答。"],["邱主任委員太三：報告召委，我們是不是能夠雙方好好即問即答？這是立法院職權行使法……"],["徐委員欣瑩：你不用教我……"],["邱主任委員太三：第十八條所規定的……"],["徐委員欣瑩：現在我請你答，你就答。"],["邱主任委員太三：第二個、韓院長及周秘書長都講，雙方是共用這個時間，我們尊重委員，你有三分之二，我總該有三分之一的時間吧！"],["徐委員欣瑩：沒有，這個質詢……"],["邱主任委員太三：怎麼會沒有？那你把立法院職權行使法第十八條好好看一下……"],["徐委員欣瑩：時間暫停、時間暫停，給主席裁示。"],["主席：先暫停時間一下，主委，不好意思，我們希望基於尊重的原則……"],["邱主任委員太三：對，我也希望尊重啊！"],["主席：如果我們委員沒有請您回答的時候……"],["徐委員欣瑩：對啊！"],["主席：他一定會給你時間回答，如果他不給時間，我們也是來跟他溝通，好不好？所以……"],["邱主任委員太三：對，召委，所以我也期待……"],["主席：在他說話當中，我們期待不要有這樣子……"],["邱主任委員太三：因為我也在……"],["主席：我們不要打斷人家說話，這是最基本的禮貌，好不好？他現在讓你回答，你就就他問你的問題回答就好，好嗎？謝謝……"],["邱主任委員太三：第一個……"],["主席：好，我們繼續開會。"],["徐委員欣瑩：就是針對問題回答……"],["邱主任委員太三：對，我現在要針對你剛剛問的問題……"],["徐委員欣瑩：第一個、你什麼神邏輯？"],["邱主任委員太三：我就要針對你剛剛問的問題，第一個、你剛剛講到兩岸的這種協商，馬政府是不是比較會協商？"],["徐委員欣瑩：這個不是我的問題，請暫停。"],["邱主任委員太三：你剛剛不是有問？"],["徐委員欣瑩：我是問……"],["邱主任委員太三：報告委員……"],["徐委員欣瑩：我問的問題……"],["邱主任委員太三：立法院職權行使法說，你說明你的主旨之後，我要即問即答。"],["徐委員欣瑩：我沒給你那麼多時間，我已經講了，你今天反間諜法……"],["邱主任委員太三：你要我回答哪幾個題目？因為你剛剛問我的最少有5個題目。"],["徐委員欣瑩：我剛剛在闡述，所以你不要浪費我的時間。"],["邱主任委員太三：那你的問題到底是哪幾個？"],["徐委員欣瑩：所以反間諜法這是什麼神邏輯？時間一個是7月1日就生效，你8月的時候OK，現在不OK，這都是你民進黨政府在講，這是第一個。"],["邱主任委員太三：我先就這個回答，好不好？"],["徐委員欣瑩：第二個、損害國家利益……"],["邱主任委員太三：對，沒有問題。"],["徐委員欣瑩：又是怎麼樣損害國家利益？"],["邱主任委員太三：就這兩個……"],["徐委員欣瑩：就這兩個問題，給你30秒，請簡答。"],["邱主任委員太三：第一個、我想任何法制的國家都知道，所有立法之後，會有所謂的施行細則，它到底會怎麼樣來操作？所以我們看到去年在反間諜法制定之後，才開始陸陸續續，包括去年年底都有，所以我們當然觀察到……"],["徐委員欣瑩：主席，麻煩請暫停，請暫停、請暫停。"],["邱主任委員太三：他們對國人在大陸的人身安全開始有一些逮捕，各位都知道，好幾個人，要不要我一一講名字……"],["徐委員欣瑩：不是，不要離題，請暫停、請暫停。"],["主席：現在他有兩個問題請你回答。"],["邱主任委員太三：對，所以我說法律制定之後，我們就是觀察它到底怎麼樣在執行，對國人的侵害風險有多少，當然我們經過這半年多的觀察，發覺它的風險提高……"],["徐委員欣瑩：好，OK……"],["邱主任委員太三：它還制定了保守國家秘密法，任何人只要談到，縱使不涉及國家安全，公務上的機密都會，這是第一個問題。"],["徐委員欣瑩：請暫停、請暫停。"],["邱主任委員太三：第二個、你剛剛不是講侵害我們的利益嗎？"],["徐委員欣瑩：不是，你的時間沒有用到……"],["邱主任委員太三：委員，我想你也在乎我們國內觀光業者，如果今天我們單方面過去，我們讓他們賺了八百多億，我們國內的業者要去賺哪裡的錢？"],["徐委員欣瑩：所以我就說嘛！"],["邱主任委員太三：對啊！這個就是損害我們業者的利益。"],["徐委員欣瑩：之前你為什麼不想辦法？"],["邱主任委員太三：第二個……"],["徐委員欣瑩：你為什麼……"],["邱主任委員太三：我們雙方有海旅會和台旅會，雙方都表達過了。"],["徐委員欣瑩：請暫停。"],["邱主任委員太三：我們也讓它的踩線團來臺灣了。"],["徐委員欣瑩：好啦！請暫停，你剛剛講……"],["邱主任委員太三：你叫我回答到底有沒有損害國家利益，我就回答你這個問題嘛！"],["徐委員欣瑩：所以我現在要告訴你，因為我剩下2分鐘，現在你說要照顧觀光業者，但是你們當初公布，112年（去年）8月24日陸委會的新聞稿就已經講這個規劃，你規劃也沒有說到只要什麼什麼，你今天……"],["邱主任委員太三：有啊！要對等，剛剛不是講了，開放的時間點就是它開放的時間點啊！"],["徐委員欣瑩：所以你就是很含混嘛！你就是很含混。"],["邱主任委員太三：我沒有含混。"],["徐委員欣瑩：你又不行，結果你說不行以後……"],["邱主任委員太三：委員，我要唸給你聽嗎？"],["主席：不好意思，主委，請你尊重。"],["徐委員欣瑩：你現在3月1日到5月的又可以，那我問你，人家已經準備好6、7、8月的，基本你應該也知道，我們的旅遊旺季絕對是6、7、8月，當你去年一宣布之後，你知道業者有多少要做陸團的都已經整個規劃下去，像什麼新疆團、西藏團，你現在3月1日到5月的可以去，6月以後都不能去，所以3月1日到5月的要感謝你們皇恩浩蕩，你說可以去就可以去，你說不能去就不能去。"],["邱主任委員太三：這是你說的啦！我不同意這樣的說法。"],["徐委員欣瑩：那我問你，我們今天的題目是你的決策過程與後續影響評估，今天你做這個決策下去，你有沒有考慮到我們民間的這種損失，這個損失你有要賠償他們嗎？你就回答你有沒有考慮到損失，今天在報告裡面……"],["邱主任委員太三：剛剛交通部不是已經回答了嗎？"],["徐委員欣瑩：沒有，在報告裡面……"],["邱主任委員太三：交通部不是已經回答你了嗎？"],["徐委員欣瑩：完全沒有提到。"],["邱主任委員太三：委員，我先告訴你一件事情。"],["徐委員欣瑩：OK，我問你，你不回答我……"],["邱主任委員太三：兩岸條例的主管機關是我們，但是還有目的事業主管機關，目的事業主管機關剛剛提到了……"],["徐委員欣瑩：我知道，所以現在……"],["邱主任委員太三：經濟部、交通部，還有財政部，都是所謂的目的事業主管機關。"],["徐委員欣瑩：我們最明顯看到的就是陸委會。"],["邱主任委員太三：你要把這兩個層次分清楚啦！"],["徐委員欣瑩：然後交通部就找我們觀光署……"],["邱主任委員太三：對啊！他剛剛有報告他們怎麼補救的措施，他剛剛不是報告了嗎？"],["徐委員欣瑩：所以民間的你要考慮嘛！"],["邱主任委員太三：對，所以你要考慮國內民間的業者啊！"],["徐委員欣瑩：對啊！所以今天民間的……"],["邱主任委員太三：對啊！你有考慮嗎？你應該呼籲大陸不要這樣子不平等！"],["徐委員欣瑩：我當然有考慮，我一開始就講，你為什麼不積極去把他們找來？"],["邱主任委員太三：我們有積極啊！"],["徐委員欣瑩：馬政府時代其實民眾賺大陸的觀光錢賺多少，這個所有人都知道的，你們還要這樣強辯。"],["主席：不好意思！委員，我們的質詢時間已經到了，謝謝欣瑩委員，謝謝主委。","我在這裡再強調一下，我們希望我們彼此尊重，當委員在說話的時候，請官員就不要回應，因為你們這樣一回應，其實第一、會打斷委員的思路，第二個，也會影響到我們收音及媒體們要拍攝錄影的一些工作，大家針鋒相對的話，都講不清楚，我們希望能夠說清楚講明白，好不好？我們儘量維持這樣的秩序，謝謝！","繼續請第2位蘇巧慧委員質詢，謝謝。"]],"agenda":{"page_end":76,"meet_id":"委員會-11-1-15-3","speakers":["高金素梅","徐欣瑩","王美惠","吳琪銘","蘇巧慧","牛煦庭","張宏陸","黃建賓","黃捷","許宇甄","李柏毅","張智倫","丁學忠","麥玉珍","鄭天財Sra 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\"重\", \"start\": 710.308, \"end\": 710.329, \"score\": 0.0}], \"language\": \"zh\"}","srt":"1\n00:00:18,514 --> 00:00:28,236\n主席、在座各位官員、各位委員、各位媒體先進大家好本席有請陸委會邱主委邱主委首先本席還是要就剛剛我這個程序發言被民進黨委員打斷的我做個補充\n\n2\n00:00:43,342 --> 00:01:03,133\n我第8屆擔任立法委員我看到行政單位的報告都是非常充實的但是我們這兩次的會議我發現民進黨執政8年以來我們專案報告的文字越放越大字體越放越大行距越來越寬頁數越來越少然後內容越來越空泛\n\n3\n00:01:11,567 --> 00:01:33,204\n那剛剛我也看到我們這個報告提來我們的這個委員會又時間很短等於很急促那再來就是本席要就今天我們陸委會提供的這個報告你有把題目放上去\n\n4\n00:01:34,420 --> 00:01:38,042\n今天有放題目禮拜一沒有放題目很明顯就是故意的嘛\n\n5\n00:01:55,083 --> 00:02:00,167\n禮拜一是因為主要的內容是在海洋委員會所以你沒放題目我只是點到但今天我們很明顯你的行為就告訴大家你禮拜一故意不放\n\n6\n00:02:23,263 --> 00:02:47,195\n好那接著我們來看今天我有很認真聽雖然夜宿很少但我很認真聽了這個主委的報告我們現在突然間宣布這個停止組團到大陸去第一個理由說是逆差長期以來逆差嘛那我覺得很好笑\n\n7\n00:02:48,135 --> 00:03:07,169\n我們政府民進黨政府執政你既然逆差你為什麼不想辦法去改變這個問題你為什麼不想辦法去邀請大陸團可以過來反而你是忽視還有損害民眾去大陸觀光的權益\n\n8\n00:03:08,030 --> 00:03:08,931\n第一個逆差本席\n\n9\n00:03:26,002 --> 00:03:31,309\n要跟陸委會你要去溝通啊你要去邀請他們來啊想辦法賺大陸的錢這第一點第二個您提到是M503航路運行的改變那也一樣啊\n\n10\n00:03:43,069 --> 00:04:00,133\n我們選出來的政府要做什麼?如果他改變,你有去溝通嗎?這就回答,有或沒有,你有沒有去溝通?當然有啊,問題是他基於政治上的考量,想要干預到台灣的選舉。那很奇怪,為什麼馬政府時代的時候OK?其實馬政府時代那時候,他們也有一M503的航線。\n\n11\n00:04:08,915 --> 00:04:25,631\n那政府的時候他們談一談談好就可以這個他等於這個航線他就沒有沒有這樣改變他就取消啦所以這是不是表示出國民黨執政比民進黨執政能夠有效的溝通能夠為我們民眾帶來權益\n\n12\n00:04:29,354 --> 00:04:39,282\n我沒有要你回答因為你講有溝通嘛但是對方還是沒辦法所以顯示出你就是沒辦法那第三個你說是反間諜法那我現在要跟大家說很有趣的我們這個\n\n13\n00:04:51,940 --> 00:05:12,710\n中國大陸的反間諜法是在去年的7月1號就生效了可是我們政府呢在去年8月24號的時候你就宣布要開放啦奇怪了你那時候宣布要開放的時候你沒有發現反間諜法也生效了嗎現在來說反間諜法有意義嗎這是什麼邏輯神邏輯啊你這是神邏輯啊\n\n14\n00:05:16,792 --> 00:05:20,274\n反間諜法在去年7月1日生效民進黨政府在去年8月24日宣布開放那時候為什麼沒有反間諜法的疑慮\n\n15\n00:05:42,828 --> 00:06:11,894\n有啊!所以這個我們只能說民進黨執政你想做什麼就做什麼政策反覆好不好政策反覆你不接受那我想請問現在我們又有這個禁團令然後講到損害國家利益損害國家利益其實所謂的損害國家利益我不知道這個意思太含混啊\n\n16\n00:06:12,930 --> 00:06:41,317\n那是怎麼樣損害國家利益?好,這個可以回答?對,你可以回答。第一個我講,我從前面開始。請顯要的回答。報告召委,我們是不是能夠好好把雙方急問急答?這是立法院職權行使法。你不用教我,現在我請你答你就答。韓院長跟周秘書長都講,雙方是共用這個時間。那我們尊重委員,你有三分之二,我總該有三分之一的時間吧。\n\n17\n00:06:41,957 --> 00:06:48,262\n沒有這個質詢：徐欣瑩暫停時間暫停時間暫停時間暫停時間暫停時間暫停時間暫停時間暫停時間暫停時間暫停時間暫停時間暫停時間暫停時間暫停時間暫停時間暫停時間暫停時間暫停時間暫停時間暫停時間暫停時間暫停時間暫停時間暫停時間暫停時間暫停時間暫停時間暫停時間暫停時間暫停時間暫停時間暫停時間暫停時間暫停時間暫停時間暫停時間暫停時間暫停時間暫停時間暫停時間暫停時間暫停時間暫停時間暫停時間暫停時間暫停時間暫停時間暫停時間暫停時間暫停時間暫停時間暫停時間暫\n\n18\n00:07:08,837 --> 00:07:12,859\n我們不要打斷人家的說話我們這是做基本的禮貌好不好他現在讓你回答你就就他問您的問題您回答就好來徐欣瑩是這是針對問題回答你什麼神邏輯我就要針對你剛剛第一個你剛剛講到說兩岸的這種協商那馬政府是不是會比較協商這個不是我的問題你剛剛不是有問我是問說\n\n19\n00:07:34,848 --> 00:07:39,753\n報告委員：徐欣瑩我問的問題：徐欣瑩我問的問題：徐欣瑩我問的問題：徐欣瑩我問的問題：徐欣瑩徐欣瑩徐欣瑩徐欣瑩徐欣瑩徐欣瑩徐欣瑩徐欣瑩徐欣瑩徐欣瑩徐欣瑩徐欣瑩徐欣瑩徐欣瑩徐欣瑩\n\n20\n00:07:49,682 --> 00:08:08,337\n你都問我的最少5個題目我剛剛在闡述所以你不要浪費我時間所以反間諜法這是什麼神邏輯你時間一個7月1號就生效你8月的時候那時候OK現在不OK這都是你民進黨政府在講這第一個第二個損害國家利益\n\n21\n00:08:10,499 --> 00:08:26,879\n第一,我想任何法治的國家都知道,所有立法之後,它會有所謂的施行細則。第二,它到底會怎麼樣來操作?所以我們看到,去年在反建聯法制定之後,才開始陸陸續續有國人\n\n22\n00:08:28,641 --> 00:08:42,768\n包括這個去年年底都有所以我們當然觀察到他開始對國人在大陸的人身安全開始有一些逮捕各位都知道好幾個人不要離題了兩句請暫停所以我說法律的制定我們就是觀察他到底怎麼樣在執行對國人的境外風險有多少當然我們經過這半年多的這樣的觀察發覺他的風險提高\n\n23\n00:08:55,954 --> 00:09:13,074\n他還制定了保守國家經濟法,任何人只要談到重視不涉及國家安全、公務上的經濟都會哦。請暫停,請暫停。第二個,你剛剛不是想說侵害我們的利益嗎?不是,你的利益的時間沒有用到。我們國內觀光業者,如果今天我們單方面過去,\n\n24\n00:09:14,736 --> 00:09:28,288\n我們讓他們對方賺了800多億,然後我們國內的業者要去賺哪裡的錢?所以我就說嘛,之前你為什麼不想辦法?第二個,我們雙方都有,來理會跟台理會,雙方都表達過,我們也讓他的彩線團來台灣了\n\n25\n00:09:34,634 --> 00:09:56,921\n好了請暫停你剛剛講你叫我回答到底有沒有損害國家利益嘛我就回答你這個問題所以我現在要告訴你你現在你說的要照顧觀光業者因為我剩下兩分鐘你說要照顧觀光業者但是你們當初這個公布就是112年去年8月24號陸委會的新聞稿你就已經講這個規劃\n\n26\n00:09:58,962 --> 00:10:06,790\n你規劃你也沒有說到欸只要什麼什麼你今天只要什麼所以你就是很含混嘛你就是很含混所以OK你又不行結果你說不行以後你現在又3月1號到5月的又可以那我問你人家已經準備好六七八月\n\n27\n00:10:20,464 --> 00:10:48,391\n基本你應該也知道我們的旅遊旺季絕對是6、7、8月當你去年一宣布之後你知道業者有多少他們要做陸團的他們都已經整個下去像什麼新疆團、西藏團那你現在3月1號到5月的可以去6月以後都不能去所以3月1號到5月的要感謝你們黃恩浩蕩你說可以去就可以去你說不能去就不能去\n\n28\n00:10:49,571 --> 00:11:04,066\n那我問你今天我們的題目是你的決策過程跟後續影響評估今天你這個決策下去你有沒有考慮到我們民間的這種損失這個損失你有要賠償他們嗎?\n\n29\n00:11:05,487 --> 00:11:06,788\n徐欣瑩徐欣瑩徐欣瑩徐欣瑩徐欣瑩\n\n30\n00:11:29,486 --> 00:11:30,708\n對,所以你要考慮民間國內的業者啊對啊,所以今天民間的生意\n\n31\n00:11:47,406 --> 00:11:50,329\n我一開始就講你為什麼不積極去討論馬政府時代其實民眾賺大陸的觀光錢賺多少這個所有人都知道的你們還要這樣強辯委員我們的質詢時間已經到了謝謝謝謝欣瑩委員謝謝主委我在這裡強調一下我們希望我們彼此尊重\n\n","tsv":"start\tend\ttext\n18514\t28236\t主席、在座各位官員、各位委員、各位媒體先進大家好本席有請陸委會邱主委邱主委首先本席還是要就剛剛我這個程序發言被民進黨委員打斷的我做個補充\n43342\t63133\t我第8屆擔任立法委員我看到行政單位的報告都是非常充實的但是我們這兩次的會議我發現民進黨執政8年以來我們專案報告的文字越放越大字體越放越大行距越來越寬頁數越來越少然後內容越來越空泛\n71567\t93204\t那剛剛我也看到我們這個報告提來我們的這個委員會又時間很短等於很急促那再來就是本席要就今天我們陸委會提供的這個報告你有把題目放上去\n94420\t98042\t今天有放題目 禮拜一沒有放題目 很明顯就是故意的嘛\n115083\t120167\t禮拜一是因為主要的內容是在海洋委員會所以你沒放題目我只是點到但今天我們很明顯你的行為就告訴大家你禮拜一故意不放\n143263\t167195\t好那接著我們來看今天我有很認真聽雖然夜宿很少但我很認真聽了這個主委的報告我們現在突然間宣布這個停止組團到大陸去第一個理由說是逆差長期以來逆差嘛那我覺得很好笑\n168135\t187169\t我們政府民進黨政府執政你既然逆差你為什麼不想辦法去改變這個問題你為什麼不想辦法去邀請大陸團可以過來反而你是忽視還有損害民眾去大陸觀光的權益\n188030\t188931\t第一個逆差本席\n206002\t211309\t要跟陸委會你要去溝通啊你要去邀請他們來啊想辦法賺大陸的錢這第一點第二個您提到是M503航路運行的改變那也一樣啊\n223069\t240133\t我們選出來的政府要做什麼?如果他改變,你有去溝通嗎?這就回答,有或沒有,你有沒有去溝通?當然有啊,問題是他基於政治上的考量,想要干預到台灣的選舉。那很奇怪,為什麼馬政府時代的時候OK?其實馬政府時代那時候,他們也有一M503的航線。\n248915\t265631\t那政府的時候他們談一談談好就可以這個他等於這個航線他就沒有沒有這樣改變他就取消啦所以這是不是表示出國民黨執政比民進黨執政能夠有效的溝通能夠為我們民眾帶來權益\n269354\t279282\t我沒有要你回答因為你講有溝通嘛但是對方還是沒辦法所以顯示出你就是沒辦法那第三個你說是反間諜法那我現在要跟大家說很有趣的我們這個\n291940\t312710\t中國大陸的反間諜法是在去年的7月1號就生效了可是我們政府呢在去年8月24號的時候你就宣布要開放啦奇怪了你那時候宣布要開放的時候你沒有發現反間諜法也生效了嗎現在來說反間諜法有意義嗎這是什麼邏輯神邏輯啊你這是神邏輯啊\n316792\t320274\t反間諜法在去年7月1日生效民進黨政府在去年8月24日宣布開放那時候為什麼沒有反間諜法的疑慮\n342828\t371894\t有啊!所以這個我們只能說民進黨執政你想做什麼就做什麼政策反覆好不好政策反覆你不接受那我想請問現在我們又有這個禁團令然後講到損害國家利益損害國家利益其實所謂的損害國家利益我不知道這個意思太含混啊\n372930\t401317\t那是怎麼樣損害國家利益?好,這個可以回答?對,你可以回答。第一個我講,我從前面開始。請顯要的回答。報告召委,我們是不是能夠好好把雙方急問急答?這是立法院職權行使法。你不用教我,現在我請你答你就答。韓院長跟周秘書長都講,雙方是共用這個時間。那我們尊重委員,你有三分之二,我總該有三分之一的時間吧。\n401957\t408262\t沒有 這個質詢：徐欣瑩暫停時間暫停時間暫停時間暫停時間暫停時間暫停時間暫停時間暫停時間暫停時間暫停時間暫停時間暫停時間暫停時間暫停時間暫停時間暫停時間暫停時間暫停時間暫停時間暫停時間暫停時間暫停時間暫停時間暫停時間暫停時間暫停時間暫停時間暫停時間暫停時間暫停時間暫停時間暫停時間暫停時間暫停時間暫停時間暫停時間暫停時間暫停時間暫停時間暫停時間暫停時間暫停時間暫停時間暫停時間暫停時間暫停時間暫停時間暫停時間暫停時間暫停時間暫停時間暫停時間暫\n428837\t432859\t我們不要打斷人家的說話我們這是做基本的禮貌好不好他現在讓你回答你就就他問您的問題您回答就好來徐欣瑩是這是針對問題回答你什麼神邏輯我就要針對你剛剛第一個你剛剛講到說兩岸的這種協商那馬政府是不是會比較協商這個不是我的問題你剛剛不是有問我是問說\n454848\t459753\t報告委員：徐欣瑩我問的問題：徐欣瑩我問的問題：徐欣瑩我問的問題：徐欣瑩我問的問題：徐欣瑩徐欣瑩徐欣瑩徐欣瑩徐欣瑩徐欣瑩徐欣瑩徐欣瑩徐欣瑩徐欣瑩徐欣瑩徐欣瑩徐欣瑩徐欣瑩徐欣瑩\n469682\t488337\t你都問我的最少5個題目我剛剛在闡述所以你不要浪費我時間所以反間諜法這是什麼神邏輯你時間一個7月1號就生效你8月的時候那時候OK現在不OK這都是你民進黨政府在講這第一個第二個損害國家利益\n490499\t506879\t第一,我想任何法治的國家都知道,所有立法之後,它會有所謂的施行細則。第二,它到底會怎麼樣來操作?所以我們看到,去年在反建聯法制定之後,才開始陸陸續續有國人\n508641\t522768\t包括這個去年年底都有所以我們當然觀察到他開始對國人在大陸的人身安全開始有一些逮捕各位都知道好幾個人不要離題了兩句請暫停所以我說法律的制定我們就是觀察他到底怎麼樣在執行對國人的境外風險有多少當然我們經過這半年多的這樣的觀察發覺他的風險提高\n535954\t553074\t他還制定了保守國家經濟法,任何人只要談到重視不涉及國家安全、公務上的經濟都會哦。請暫停,請暫停。第二個,你剛剛不是想說侵害我們的利益嗎?不是,你的利益的時間沒有用到。我們國內觀光業者,如果今天我們單方面過去,\n554736\t568288\t我們讓他們對方賺了800多億,然後我們國內的業者要去賺哪裡的錢?所以我就說嘛,之前你為什麼不想辦法?第二個,我們雙方都有,來理會跟台理會,雙方都表達過,我們也讓他的彩線團來台灣了\n574634\t596921\t好了請暫停你剛剛講你叫我回答到底有沒有損害國家利益嘛我就回答你這個問題所以我現在要告訴你你現在你說的要照顧觀光業者因為我剩下兩分鐘你說要照顧觀光業者但是你們當初這個公布就是112年去年8月24號陸委會的新聞稿你就已經講這個規劃\n598962\t606790\t你規劃你也沒有說到欸只要什麼什麼你今天只要什麼所以你就是很含混嘛你就是很含混所以OK你又不行結果你說不行以後你現在又3月1號到5月的又可以那我問你人家已經準備好六七八月\n620464\t648391\t基本你應該也知道我們的旅遊旺季絕對是6、7、8月當你去年一宣布之後你知道業者有多少他們要做陸團的他們都已經整個下去像什麼新疆團、西藏團那你現在3月1號到5月的可以去6月以後都不能去所以3月1號到5月的要感謝你們黃恩浩蕩你說可以去就可以去你說不能去就不能去\n649571\t664066\t那我問你今天我們的題目是你的決策過程跟後續影響評估今天你這個決策下去你有沒有考慮到我們民間的這種損失這個損失你有要賠償他們嗎?\n665487\t666788\t徐欣瑩徐欣瑩徐欣瑩徐欣瑩徐欣瑩\n689486\t690708\t對,所以你要考慮民間國內的業者啊對啊,所以今天民間的生意\n707406\t710329\t我一開始就講你為什麼不積極去討論馬政府時代其實民眾賺大陸的觀光錢賺多少這個所有人都知道的你們還要這樣強辯委員我們的質詢時間已經到了謝謝謝謝欣瑩委員謝謝主委我在這裡強調一下我們希望我們彼此尊重\n","txt":"主席、在座各位官員、各位委員、各位媒體先進大家好本席有請陸委會邱主委邱主委首先本席還是要就剛剛我這個程序發言被民進黨委員打斷的我做個補充\n我第8屆擔任立法委員我看到行政單位的報告都是非常充實的但是我們這兩次的會議我發現民進黨執政8年以來我們專案報告的文字越放越大字體越放越大行距越來越寬頁數越來越少然後內容越來越空泛\n那剛剛我也看到我們這個報告提來我們的這個委員會又時間很短等於很急促那再來就是本席要就今天我們陸委會提供的這個報告你有把題目放上去\n今天有放題目 禮拜一沒有放題目 很明顯就是故意的嘛\n禮拜一是因為主要的內容是在海洋委員會所以你沒放題目我只是點到但今天我們很明顯你的行為就告訴大家你禮拜一故意不放\n好那接著我們來看今天我有很認真聽雖然夜宿很少但我很認真聽了這個主委的報告我們現在突然間宣布這個停止組團到大陸去第一個理由說是逆差長期以來逆差嘛那我覺得很好笑\n我們政府民進黨政府執政你既然逆差你為什麼不想辦法去改變這個問題你為什麼不想辦法去邀請大陸團可以過來反而你是忽視還有損害民眾去大陸觀光的權益\n第一個逆差本席\n要跟陸委會你要去溝通啊你要去邀請他們來啊想辦法賺大陸的錢這第一點第二個您提到是M503航路運行的改變那也一樣啊\n我們選出來的政府要做什麼?如果他改變,你有去溝通嗎?這就回答,有或沒有,你有沒有去溝通?當然有啊,問題是他基於政治上的考量,想要干預到台灣的選舉。那很奇怪,為什麼馬政府時代的時候OK?其實馬政府時代那時候,他們也有一M503的航線。\n那政府的時候他們談一談談好就可以這個他等於這個航線他就沒有沒有這樣改變他就取消啦所以這是不是表示出國民黨執政比民進黨執政能夠有效的溝通能夠為我們民眾帶來權益\n我沒有要你回答因為你講有溝通嘛但是對方還是沒辦法所以顯示出你就是沒辦法那第三個你說是反間諜法那我現在要跟大家說很有趣的我們這個\n中國大陸的反間諜法是在去年的7月1號就生效了可是我們政府呢在去年8月24號的時候你就宣布要開放啦奇怪了你那時候宣布要開放的時候你沒有發現反間諜法也生效了嗎現在來說反間諜法有意義嗎這是什麼邏輯神邏輯啊你這是神邏輯啊\n反間諜法在去年7月1日生效民進黨政府在去年8月24日宣布開放那時候為什麼沒有反間諜法的疑慮\n有啊!所以這個我們只能說民進黨執政你想做什麼就做什麼政策反覆好不好政策反覆你不接受那我想請問現在我們又有這個禁團令然後講到損害國家利益損害國家利益其實所謂的損害國家利益我不知道這個意思太含混啊\n那是怎麼樣損害國家利益?好,這個可以回答?對,你可以回答。第一個我講,我從前面開始。請顯要的回答。報告召委,我們是不是能夠好好把雙方急問急答?這是立法院職權行使法。你不用教我,現在我請你答你就答。韓院長跟周秘書長都講,雙方是共用這個時間。那我們尊重委員,你有三分之二,我總該有三分之一的時間吧。\n沒有 這個質詢：徐欣瑩暫停時間暫停時間暫停時間暫停時間暫停時間暫停時間暫停時間暫停時間暫停時間暫停時間暫停時間暫停時間暫停時間暫停時間暫停時間暫停時間暫停時間暫停時間暫停時間暫停時間暫停時間暫停時間暫停時間暫停時間暫停時間暫停時間暫停時間暫停時間暫停時間暫停時間暫停時間暫停時間暫停時間暫停時間暫停時間暫停時間暫停時間暫停時間暫停時間暫停時間暫停時間暫停時間暫停時間暫停時間暫停時間暫停時間暫停時間暫停時間暫停時間暫停時間暫停時間暫停時間暫\n我們不要打斷人家的說話我們這是做基本的禮貌好不好他現在讓你回答你就就他問您的問題您回答就好來徐欣瑩是這是針對問題回答你什麼神邏輯我就要針對你剛剛第一個你剛剛講到說兩岸的這種協商那馬政府是不是會比較協商這個不是我的問題你剛剛不是有問我是問說\n報告委員：徐欣瑩我問的問題：徐欣瑩我問的問題：徐欣瑩我問的問題：徐欣瑩我問的問題：徐欣瑩徐欣瑩徐欣瑩徐欣瑩徐欣瑩徐欣瑩徐欣瑩徐欣瑩徐欣瑩徐欣瑩徐欣瑩徐欣瑩徐欣瑩徐欣瑩徐欣瑩\n你都問我的最少5個題目我剛剛在闡述所以你不要浪費我時間所以反間諜法這是什麼神邏輯你時間一個7月1號就生效你8月的時候那時候OK現在不OK這都是你民進黨政府在講這第一個第二個損害國家利益\n第一,我想任何法治的國家都知道,所有立法之後,它會有所謂的施行細則。第二,它到底會怎麼樣來操作?所以我們看到,去年在反建聯法制定之後,才開始陸陸續續有國人\n包括這個去年年底都有所以我們當然觀察到他開始對國人在大陸的人身安全開始有一些逮捕各位都知道好幾個人不要離題了兩句請暫停所以我說法律的制定我們就是觀察他到底怎麼樣在執行對國人的境外風險有多少當然我們經過這半年多的這樣的觀察發覺他的風險提高\n他還制定了保守國家經濟法,任何人只要談到重視不涉及國家安全、公務上的經濟都會哦。請暫停,請暫停。第二個,你剛剛不是想說侵害我們的利益嗎?不是,你的利益的時間沒有用到。我們國內觀光業者,如果今天我們單方面過去,\n我們讓他們對方賺了800多億,然後我們國內的業者要去賺哪裡的錢?所以我就說嘛,之前你為什麼不想辦法?第二個,我們雙方都有,來理會跟台理會,雙方都表達過,我們也讓他的彩線團來台灣了\n好了請暫停你剛剛講你叫我回答到底有沒有損害國家利益嘛我就回答你這個問題所以我現在要告訴你你現在你說的要照顧觀光業者因為我剩下兩分鐘你說要照顧觀光業者但是你們當初這個公布就是112年去年8月24號陸委會的新聞稿你就已經講這個規劃\n你規劃你也沒有說到欸只要什麼什麼你今天只要什麼所以你就是很含混嘛你就是很含混所以OK你又不行結果你說不行以後你現在又3月1號到5月的又可以那我問你人家已經準備好六七八月\n基本你應該也知道我們的旅遊旺季絕對是6、7、8月當你去年一宣布之後你知道業者有多少他們要做陸團的他們都已經整個下去像什麼新疆團、西藏團那你現在3月1號到5月的可以去6月以後都不能去所以3月1號到5月的要感謝你們黃恩浩蕩你說可以去就可以去你說不能去就不能去\n那我問你今天我們的題目是你的決策過程跟後續影響評估今天你這個決策下去你有沒有考慮到我們民間的這種損失這個損失你有要賠償他們嗎?\n徐欣瑩徐欣瑩徐欣瑩徐欣瑩徐欣瑩\n對,所以你要考慮民間國內的業者啊對啊,所以今天民間的生意\n我一開始就講你為什麼不積極去討論馬政府時代其實民眾賺大陸的觀光錢賺多少這個所有人都知道的你們還要這樣強辯委員我們的質詢時間已經到了謝謝謝謝欣瑩委員謝謝主委我在這裡強調一下我們希望我們彼此尊重\n","vtt":"WEBVTT\n\n00:18.514 --> 00:28.236\n主席、在座各位官員、各位委員、各位媒體先進大家好本席有請陸委會邱主委邱主委首先本席還是要就剛剛我這個程序發言被民進黨委員打斷的我做個補充\n\n00:43.342 --> 01:03.133\n我第8屆擔任立法委員我看到行政單位的報告都是非常充實的但是我們這兩次的會議我發現民進黨執政8年以來我們專案報告的文字越放越大字體越放越大行距越來越寬頁數越來越少然後內容越來越空泛\n\n01:11.567 --> 01:33.204\n那剛剛我也看到我們這個報告提來我們的這個委員會又時間很短等於很急促那再來就是本席要就今天我們陸委會提供的這個報告你有把題目放上去\n\n01:34.420 --> 01:38.042\n今天有放題目禮拜一沒有放題目很明顯就是故意的嘛\n\n01:55.083 --> 02:00.167\n禮拜一是因為主要的內容是在海洋委員會所以你沒放題目我只是點到但今天我們很明顯你的行為就告訴大家你禮拜一故意不放\n\n02:23.263 --> 02:47.195\n好那接著我們來看今天我有很認真聽雖然夜宿很少但我很認真聽了這個主委的報告我們現在突然間宣布這個停止組團到大陸去第一個理由說是逆差長期以來逆差嘛那我覺得很好笑\n\n02:48.135 --> 03:07.169\n我們政府民進黨政府執政你既然逆差你為什麼不想辦法去改變這個問題你為什麼不想辦法去邀請大陸團可以過來反而你是忽視還有損害民眾去大陸觀光的權益\n\n03:08.030 --> 03:08.931\n第一個逆差本席\n\n03:26.002 --> 03:31.309\n要跟陸委會你要去溝通啊你要去邀請他們來啊想辦法賺大陸的錢這第一點第二個您提到是M503航路運行的改變那也一樣啊\n\n03:43.069 --> 04:00.133\n我們選出來的政府要做什麼?如果他改變,你有去溝通嗎?這就回答,有或沒有,你有沒有去溝通?當然有啊,問題是他基於政治上的考量,想要干預到台灣的選舉。那很奇怪,為什麼馬政府時代的時候OK?其實馬政府時代那時候,他們也有一M503的航線。\n\n04:08.915 --> 04:25.631\n那政府的時候他們談一談談好就可以這個他等於這個航線他就沒有沒有這樣改變他就取消啦所以這是不是表示出國民黨執政比民進黨執政能夠有效的溝通能夠為我們民眾帶來權益\n\n04:29.354 --> 04:39.282\n我沒有要你回答因為你講有溝通嘛但是對方還是沒辦法所以顯示出你就是沒辦法那第三個你說是反間諜法那我現在要跟大家說很有趣的我們這個\n\n04:51.940 --> 05:12.710\n中國大陸的反間諜法是在去年的7月1號就生效了可是我們政府呢在去年8月24號的時候你就宣布要開放啦奇怪了你那時候宣布要開放的時候你沒有發現反間諜法也生效了嗎現在來說反間諜法有意義嗎這是什麼邏輯神邏輯啊你這是神邏輯啊\n\n05:16.792 --> 05:20.274\n反間諜法在去年7月1日生效民進黨政府在去年8月24日宣布開放那時候為什麼沒有反間諜法的疑慮\n\n05:42.828 --> 06:11.894\n有啊!所以這個我們只能說民進黨執政你想做什麼就做什麼政策反覆好不好政策反覆你不接受那我想請問現在我們又有這個禁團令然後講到損害國家利益損害國家利益其實所謂的損害國家利益我不知道這個意思太含混啊\n\n06:12.930 --> 06:41.317\n那是怎麼樣損害國家利益?好,這個可以回答?對,你可以回答。第一個我講,我從前面開始。請顯要的回答。報告召委,我們是不是能夠好好把雙方急問急答?這是立法院職權行使法。你不用教我,現在我請你答你就答。韓院長跟周秘書長都講,雙方是共用這個時間。那我們尊重委員,你有三分之二,我總該有三分之一的時間吧。\n\n06:41.957 --> 06:48.262\n沒有這個質詢：徐欣瑩暫停時間暫停時間暫停時間暫停時間暫停時間暫停時間暫停時間暫停時間暫停時間暫停時間暫停時間暫停時間暫停時間暫停時間暫停時間暫停時間暫停時間暫停時間暫停時間暫停時間暫停時間暫停時間暫停時間暫停時間暫停時間暫停時間暫停時間暫停時間暫停時間暫停時間暫停時間暫停時間暫停時間暫停時間暫停時間暫停時間暫停時間暫停時間暫停時間暫停時間暫停時間暫停時間暫停時間暫停時間暫停時間暫停時間暫停時間暫停時間暫停時間暫停時間暫停時間暫停時間暫\n\n07:08.837 --> 07:12.859\n我們不要打斷人家的說話我們這是做基本的禮貌好不好他現在讓你回答你就就他問您的問題您回答就好來徐欣瑩是這是針對問題回答你什麼神邏輯我就要針對你剛剛第一個你剛剛講到說兩岸的這種協商那馬政府是不是會比較協商這個不是我的問題你剛剛不是有問我是問說\n\n07:34.848 --> 07:39.753\n報告委員：徐欣瑩我問的問題：徐欣瑩我問的問題：徐欣瑩我問的問題：徐欣瑩我問的問題：徐欣瑩徐欣瑩徐欣瑩徐欣瑩徐欣瑩徐欣瑩徐欣瑩徐欣瑩徐欣瑩徐欣瑩徐欣瑩徐欣瑩徐欣瑩徐欣瑩徐欣瑩\n\n07:49.682 --> 08:08.337\n你都問我的最少5個題目我剛剛在闡述所以你不要浪費我時間所以反間諜法這是什麼神邏輯你時間一個7月1號就生效你8月的時候那時候OK現在不OK這都是你民進黨政府在講這第一個第二個損害國家利益\n\n08:10.499 --> 08:26.879\n第一,我想任何法治的國家都知道,所有立法之後,它會有所謂的施行細則。第二,它到底會怎麼樣來操作?所以我們看到,去年在反建聯法制定之後,才開始陸陸續續有國人\n\n08:28.641 --> 08:42.768\n包括這個去年年底都有所以我們當然觀察到他開始對國人在大陸的人身安全開始有一些逮捕各位都知道好幾個人不要離題了兩句請暫停所以我說法律的制定我們就是觀察他到底怎麼樣在執行對國人的境外風險有多少當然我們經過這半年多的這樣的觀察發覺他的風險提高\n\n08:55.954 --> 09:13.074\n他還制定了保守國家經濟法,任何人只要談到重視不涉及國家安全、公務上的經濟都會哦。請暫停,請暫停。第二個,你剛剛不是想說侵害我們的利益嗎?不是,你的利益的時間沒有用到。我們國內觀光業者,如果今天我們單方面過去,\n\n09:14.736 --> 09:28.288\n我們讓他們對方賺了800多億,然後我們國內的業者要去賺哪裡的錢?所以我就說嘛,之前你為什麼不想辦法?第二個,我們雙方都有,來理會跟台理會,雙方都表達過,我們也讓他的彩線團來台灣了\n\n09:34.634 --> 09:56.921\n好了請暫停你剛剛講你叫我回答到底有沒有損害國家利益嘛我就回答你這個問題所以我現在要告訴你你現在你說的要照顧觀光業者因為我剩下兩分鐘你說要照顧觀光業者但是你們當初這個公布就是112年去年8月24號陸委會的新聞稿你就已經講這個規劃\n\n09:58.962 --> 10:06.790\n你規劃你也沒有說到欸只要什麼什麼你今天只要什麼所以你就是很含混嘛你就是很含混所以OK你又不行結果你說不行以後你現在又3月1號到5月的又可以那我問你人家已經準備好六七八月\n\n10:20.464 --> 10:48.391\n基本你應該也知道我們的旅遊旺季絕對是6、7、8月當你去年一宣布之後你知道業者有多少他們要做陸團的他們都已經整個下去像什麼新疆團、西藏團那你現在3月1號到5月的可以去6月以後都不能去所以3月1號到5月的要感謝你們黃恩浩蕩你說可以去就可以去你說不能去就不能去\n\n10:49.571 --> 11:04.066\n那我問你今天我們的題目是你的決策過程跟後續影響評估今天你這個決策下去你有沒有考慮到我們民間的這種損失這個損失你有要賠償他們嗎?\n\n11:05.487 --> 11:06.788\n徐欣瑩徐欣瑩徐欣瑩徐欣瑩徐欣瑩\n\n11:29.486 --> 11:30.708\n對,所以你要考慮民間國內的業者啊對啊,所以今天民間的生意\n\n11:47.406 --> 11:50.329\n我一開始就講你為什麼不積極去討論馬政府時代其實民眾賺大陸的觀光錢賺多少這個所有人都知道的你們還要這樣強辯委員我們的質詢時間已經到了謝謝謝謝欣瑩委員謝謝主委我在這裡強調一下我們希望我們彼此尊重\n\n","segments":[{"start":18.514,"end":28.236,"text":"主席、在座各位官員、各位委員、各位媒體先進大家好本席有請陸委會邱主委邱主委首先本席還是要就剛剛我這個程序發言被民進黨委員打斷的我做個補充"},{"start":43.342,"end":63.133,"text":"我第8屆擔任立法委員我看到行政單位的報告都是非常充實的但是我們這兩次的會議我發現民進黨執政8年以來我們專案報告的文字越放越大字體越放越大行距越來越寬頁數越來越少然後內容越來越空泛"},{"start":71.567,"end":93.204,"text":"那剛剛我也看到我們這個報告提來我們的這個委員會又時間很短等於很急促那再來就是本席要就今天我們陸委會提供的這個報告你有把題目放上去"},{"start":94.42,"end":98.042,"text":"今天有放題目 禮拜一沒有放題目 很明顯就是故意的嘛"},{"start":115.083,"end":120.167,"text":"禮拜一是因為主要的內容是在海洋委員會所以你沒放題目我只是點到但今天我們很明顯你的行為就告訴大家你禮拜一故意不放"},{"start":143.263,"end":167.195,"text":"好那接著我們來看今天我有很認真聽雖然夜宿很少但我很認真聽了這個主委的報告我們現在突然間宣布這個停止組團到大陸去第一個理由說是逆差長期以來逆差嘛那我覺得很好笑"},{"start":168.135,"end":187.169,"text":"我們政府民進黨政府執政你既然逆差你為什麼不想辦法去改變這個問題你為什麼不想辦法去邀請大陸團可以過來反而你是忽視還有損害民眾去大陸觀光的權益"},{"start":188.03,"end":188.931,"text":"第一個逆差本席"},{"start":206.002,"end":211.309,"text":"要跟陸委會你要去溝通啊你要去邀請他們來啊想辦法賺大陸的錢這第一點第二個您提到是M503航路運行的改變那也一樣啊"},{"start":223.069,"end":240.133,"text":"我們選出來的政府要做什麼?如果他改變,你有去溝通嗎?這就回答,有或沒有,你有沒有去溝通?當然有啊,問題是他基於政治上的考量,想要干預到台灣的選舉。那很奇怪,為什麼馬政府時代的時候OK?其實馬政府時代那時候,他們也有一M503的航線。"},{"start":248.915,"end":265.631,"text":"那政府的時候他們談一談談好就可以這個他等於這個航線他就沒有沒有這樣改變他就取消啦所以這是不是表示出國民黨執政比民進黨執政能夠有效的溝通能夠為我們民眾帶來權益"},{"start":269.354,"end":279.282,"text":"我沒有要你回答因為你講有溝通嘛但是對方還是沒辦法所以顯示出你就是沒辦法那第三個你說是反間諜法那我現在要跟大家說很有趣的我們這個"},{"start":291.94,"end":312.71,"text":"中國大陸的反間諜法是在去年的7月1號就生效了可是我們政府呢在去年8月24號的時候你就宣布要開放啦奇怪了你那時候宣布要開放的時候你沒有發現反間諜法也生效了嗎現在來說反間諜法有意義嗎這是什麼邏輯神邏輯啊你這是神邏輯啊"},{"start":316.792,"end":320.274,"text":"反間諜法在去年7月1日生效民進黨政府在去年8月24日宣布開放那時候為什麼沒有反間諜法的疑慮"},{"start":342.828,"end":371.894,"text":"有啊!所以這個我們只能說民進黨執政你想做什麼就做什麼政策反覆好不好政策反覆你不接受那我想請問現在我們又有這個禁團令然後講到損害國家利益損害國家利益其實所謂的損害國家利益我不知道這個意思太含混啊"},{"start":372.93,"end":401.317,"text":"那是怎麼樣損害國家利益?好,這個可以回答?對,你可以回答。第一個我講,我從前面開始。請顯要的回答。報告召委,我們是不是能夠好好把雙方急問急答?這是立法院職權行使法。你不用教我,現在我請你答你就答。韓院長跟周秘書長都講,雙方是共用這個時間。那我們尊重委員,你有三分之二,我總該有三分之一的時間吧。"},{"start":401.957,"end":408.262,"text":"沒有 這個質詢：徐欣瑩暫停時間暫停時間暫停時間暫停時間暫停時間暫停時間暫停時間暫停時間暫停時間暫停時間暫停時間暫停時間暫停時間暫停時間暫停時間暫停時間暫停時間暫停時間暫停時間暫停時間暫停時間暫停時間暫停時間暫停時間暫停時間暫停時間暫停時間暫停時間暫停時間暫停時間暫停時間暫停時間暫停時間暫停時間暫停時間暫停時間暫停時間暫停時間暫停時間暫停時間暫停時間暫停時間暫停時間暫停時間暫停時間暫停時間暫停時間暫停時間暫停時間暫停時間暫停時間暫停時間暫"},{"start":428.837,"end":432.859,"text":"我們不要打斷人家的說話我們這是做基本的禮貌好不好他現在讓你回答你就就他問您的問題您回答就好來徐欣瑩是這是針對問題回答你什麼神邏輯我就要針對你剛剛第一個你剛剛講到說兩岸的這種協商那馬政府是不是會比較協商這個不是我的問題你剛剛不是有問我是問說"},{"start":454.848,"end":459.753,"text":"報告委員：徐欣瑩我問的問題：徐欣瑩我問的問題：徐欣瑩我問的問題：徐欣瑩我問的問題：徐欣瑩徐欣瑩徐欣瑩徐欣瑩徐欣瑩徐欣瑩徐欣瑩徐欣瑩徐欣瑩徐欣瑩徐欣瑩徐欣瑩徐欣瑩徐欣瑩徐欣瑩"},{"start":469.682,"end":488.337,"text":"你都問我的最少5個題目我剛剛在闡述所以你不要浪費我時間所以反間諜法這是什麼神邏輯你時間一個7月1號就生效你8月的時候那時候OK現在不OK這都是你民進黨政府在講這第一個第二個損害國家利益"},{"start":490.499,"end":506.879,"text":"第一,我想任何法治的國家都知道,所有立法之後,它會有所謂的施行細則。第二,它到底會怎麼樣來操作?所以我們看到,去年在反建聯法制定之後,才開始陸陸續續有國人"},{"start":508.641,"end":522.768,"text":"包括這個去年年底都有所以我們當然觀察到他開始對國人在大陸的人身安全開始有一些逮捕各位都知道好幾個人不要離題了兩句請暫停所以我說法律的制定我們就是觀察他到底怎麼樣在執行對國人的境外風險有多少當然我們經過這半年多的這樣的觀察發覺他的風險提高"},{"start":535.954,"end":553.074,"text":"他還制定了保守國家經濟法,任何人只要談到重視不涉及國家安全、公務上的經濟都會哦。請暫停,請暫停。第二個,你剛剛不是想說侵害我們的利益嗎?不是,你的利益的時間沒有用到。我們國內觀光業者,如果今天我們單方面過去,"},{"start":554.736,"end":568.288,"text":"我們讓他們對方賺了800多億,然後我們國內的業者要去賺哪裡的錢?所以我就說嘛,之前你為什麼不想辦法?第二個,我們雙方都有,來理會跟台理會,雙方都表達過,我們也讓他的彩線團來台灣了"},{"start":574.634,"end":596.921,"text":"好了請暫停你剛剛講你叫我回答到底有沒有損害國家利益嘛我就回答你這個問題所以我現在要告訴你你現在你說的要照顧觀光業者因為我剩下兩分鐘你說要照顧觀光業者但是你們當初這個公布就是112年去年8月24號陸委會的新聞稿你就已經講這個規劃"},{"start":598.962,"end":606.79,"text":"你規劃你也沒有說到欸只要什麼什麼你今天只要什麼所以你就是很含混嘛你就是很含混所以OK你又不行結果你說不行以後你現在又3月1號到5月的又可以那我問你人家已經準備好六七八月"},{"start":620.464,"end":648.391,"text":"基本你應該也知道我們的旅遊旺季絕對是6、7、8月當你去年一宣布之後你知道業者有多少他們要做陸團的他們都已經整個下去像什麼新疆團、西藏團那你現在3月1號到5月的可以去6月以後都不能去所以3月1號到5月的要感謝你們黃恩浩蕩你說可以去就可以去你說不能去就不能去"},{"start":649.571,"end":664.066,"text":"那我問你今天我們的題目是你的決策過程跟後續影響評估今天你這個決策下去你有沒有考慮到我們民間的這種損失這個損失你有要賠償他們嗎?"},{"start":665.487,"end":666.788,"text":"徐欣瑩徐欣瑩徐欣瑩徐欣瑩徐欣瑩"},{"start":689.486,"end":690.708,"text":"對,所以你要考慮民間國內的業者啊對啊,所以今天民間的生意"},{"start":707.406,"end":710.329,"text":"我一開始就講你為什麼不積極去討論馬政府時代其實民眾賺大陸的觀光錢賺多少這個所有人都知道的你們還要這樣強辯委員我們的質詢時間已經到了謝謝謝謝欣瑩委員謝謝主委我在這裡強調一下我們希望我們彼此尊重"}]}}}}