{"id":149375,"url":"https://ivod.ly.gov.tw/Play/Clip/1M/149375","video_url":"https://ivod-lyvod.cdn.hinet.net/vod_1/_definst_/mp4:1MClips/aa454a369d2b172f8dee23d7245568d3b97b2be93641c974f8ba9b0039caa7a67651d8aba7895d035ea18f28b6918d91.mp4/playlist.m3u8","委員名稱":"蘇巧慧","委員發言時間":"09:40:35 - 09:51:23","影片長度":"00:10:48","會議時間":"2024-03-06T09:00:00+08:00","會議名稱":"立法院第11屆第1會期內政委員會第3次全體委員會議（事由：邀請大陸委員會主任委員及交通部次長、交通部觀光署署長就「赴陸旅遊團停招：決策過程與後續影響評估」進行專題報告，並備質詢。）","meet":{"tmpMeeting":null,"title":"第11屆第1會期內政委員會第3次全體委員會議","term":11,"type":"委員會","sessionPeriod":1,"sessionTimes":3,"committees":[15],"id":"委員會-11-1-15-3"},"date":"2024-03-06","duration":648,"end_time":"2024-03-06T09:51:23+08:00","start_time":"2024-03-06T09:40:35+08:00","features":["ai-transcript","gazette"],"type":"Clip","gazette":{"lineno":238,"blocks":[["蘇委員巧慧：（9時40分）謝謝主席。我們請邱太三主委，還有林次長。"],["主席：請邱主委，還有次長，謝謝。"],["蘇委員巧慧：主委好！請邱主委先。我們今天的題目是赴陸旅遊團停招，其實就是對禁止組團赴中旅遊這件事情，臺灣社會想要瞭解這個前因後果和未來的影響。我在不管是陸委會的報告還是交通部的報告裡面，其實都看到大家提到的是兩個原因，第一個、當然是基於平等原則之下的國家利益，要平等、要對等，所以中國這邊不開，臺灣這邊當然也就不開，不然兩邊產值差太多，這個不符合國家利益，今天如果不是中國，放在其他國家，我相信我們也是用同樣的道理來面對國家的利益，這樣對嗎？"],["邱主任委員太三：對。"],["蘇委員巧慧：這是第一點。你第二點其實提到的是 M503航線的變動，等於是在我們想要開放赴中國團之後，我們當時在開的時候其實本來就有加一個但書，如果對方有同等善意的話，我們要開，當時的決定是這樣子，結果在這個過程當中，自己看，大家都可以查新聞，包括諾魯斷交，包括最後這個M503航線變動，在我的看法，等於是最後一根稻草啦！可是我想請問陸委會，中國觀光業對我們開放的態度不平等，這是其一，M503航線變動，這是第二，這兩個原因哪一個是今天臺灣不開放赴中團比較重要的原因？哪一個？"],["邱主任委員太三：我想基本上不對等是一個基本的原因。"],["蘇委員巧慧：這是基本原則，開宗明義。"],["邱主任委員太三：但是壓倒的最後一根稻草就是M503。"],["蘇委員巧慧：好，所以是前面不對等比較重要，還是最後一根稻草比較嚴重？"],["邱主任委員太三：當然是不對等，我們現在在照顧我們國內業者的利益啊！"],["蘇委員巧慧：所以你的意思是前面那個比較重要？我認為兩個都重要……"],["邱主任委員太三：這兩個都涉及到國家的利益啊！"],["蘇委員巧慧：兩個都涉及國家利益啊！"],["邱主任委員太三：對。"],["蘇委員巧慧：我還是監督政府、監督陸委會，我今天就是要就教你，我認為M503航線的變動，其實它是一個看不見的利益，我們今天在討論觀光業沒有辦法赴中，沒有辦法組團赴中，對臺灣的影響當然很大。我們可以看到的是，我們現在的觀光業在沒有辦法賺到中國的錢的同時，去那邊業者沒有辦法賺錢，但是陸客不來，我們也沒有辦法賺到錢，這個都有產值可以算。2018年的時候我們去中國消費了將近800億，但是中國來臺灣也帶來了七百多億的消費，所以如果中國客不來臺灣，700億我們賺不到，為什麼我們要給他賺800億？這很清楚嘛！這是對等原則。","可是M503呢？M503看不到、摸不到，但它確實守護臺灣的利益啊！這一點你為什麼沒有向社會大眾多說明一點？我看到你的報告裡面，我用關鍵字查詢，講到觀光有9次，M503只有1次，現在給你時間，主委，M503的變動對臺灣的國安、飛安影響到底有多大？"],["邱主任委員太三：第一個，所有M503或者說所有的航線，其實都是交通部主掌的，各位都知道有一個ICAO（國際民航組織），所有航線的變動基本上都涉及到各國飛航的安全。"],["蘇委員巧慧：航線變動都是，但M503為什麼重要？因為它靠近海峽中線。"],["邱主任委員太三：它也是一條國際航線，所以各位可以看到，各國都在對中國這樣的一個改變給予譴責，或者說認為它變更……"],["蘇委員巧慧：主委，這一張圖……"],["邱主任委員太三：第二點，因為它不是只有M503而已，它又有宣布3條航線是東西向的。"],["蘇委員巧慧：是，W123、W122和W121嘛！"],["邱主任委員太三：對，這個都會增加所有……"],["蘇委員巧慧：那個是飛機可以從中國起飛，往臺灣方向飛過來。"],["邱主任委員太三：專業的部分民航局可以講，甚至涉及到國安啦！"],["蘇委員巧慧：沒有錯啊！"],["邱主任委員太三：我們國防部所有的軍機都要對應……"],["蘇委員巧慧：不但增加臺灣軍備的壓力……"],["邱主任委員太三：所有增加的航次、航班都會影響到，特別是它又不願意按照既有的默契再往西側偏移，所以我們反制的時間點就會被壓縮。"],["蘇委員巧慧：沒有錯嘛！而且這條航線是吵了多久？來，我整理給你看，為什麼陸委會沒有整理這一張呢？我今天之所以問陸委會的原因還包括大陸委員會組織法第一條規定，行政院要求陸委會統籌掌管所有涉及大陸事務，所以當然是問你。你看，從2007年的時候，那時候是陳水扁總統的時代，中國就想要設置M503，可是那個時候我們是透過外交途徑把它給擋掉了，這是2007年，是真正擋掉；2015年，剛剛在說馬英九時代的時候，我們是從沒有M503，在馬英九總統的時期，對啦！他們有去協商啦！協商之後是什麼？M503還是畫了，只是畫偏一點點，就這樣嘛！但是從無到有，M503就是在2015年畫下去的。2018年我們曾經說，中國又要開始片面宣布要靠近金門，又要把這條線打開，又要把它再拉過來了，那是2018年的時候，我們那時候做什麼？我們是用駁回，那個時候就是剛剛說的W123，他們飛機要從中國飛過來臺灣，那個時候因為時間點剛好是春節包機，所以他們有東方航空、廈門航空要飛過來，所以我們可以用准駁的「駁」把它擋回去嘛！","但2024年的現在，有飛機要飛過來嗎？其實坦白講也沒有啊！因為陸客根本不來啊！所以沒有飛機要從那邊來，臺商也很少啊！所以你沒有辦法用航線的准駁來反制嘛！所以我們要用其他手段來表示對M503這件事情的重視，不是這樣嗎？這件事情這麼大條，這麼大的國安事件，只是因為它不是跟個人相關，它是跟我們臺灣整體國家相關，看不到、摸不到，但如此重要，陸委會怎麼沒有用相同的量能去向國人解釋？M503航線被片面變更，就是中國再一次把航線圖調出來，中國再一次往我們的中線靠近，這跟金廈海域衝突事件侵門踏戶有什麼不一樣？不是一樣的道理嗎？所以最後一根稻草很重，它不是稻草而已啊！所以中國對臺灣的態度到底是什麼，其實應該要看得很清楚，我覺得陸委會這應該要多講啦！"],["邱主任委員太三：委員的指教我們會來加強，事實上我們在前幾個禮拜的例行記者會大概都有提到。"],["蘇委員巧慧：是啦！但是觀光講的比較多啦！這是我的意見啦！請主委參考，我認為應該要多講一點，看不到、摸不到，但是守護臺灣重要的事情，還是應該讓國人瞭解。","接下來我們來講看得到的觀光部分，請林次。"],["林次長國顯：委員好。"],["蘇委員巧慧：我們來講觀光，剛剛有說基於平等的部分、順差跟逆差的部分，大家都已經清楚了，我想請教，現在臺灣有多少間旅行社？如果禁止赴中團的話，其實應該就是以中國為主要業務的旅行團、旅行社才會受到重大衝擊，對不對？"],["林次長國顯：是。"],["蘇委員巧慧：以它的業務量中50%以上是做赴中團的，這種旅行社在4,000家裡面有多少家？"],["林次長國顯：跟委員報告，根據觀光署的統計，目前旅行社大概4,038家，您提到超過50%以上做大陸旅遊的，大概有404家，10%不到。"],["蘇委員巧慧：10%不到，但它的業績、營業額受到的影響，你們有評估嗎？"],["林次長國顯：應該用2019年估啦！2019年疫情前。"],["蘇委員巧慧：要用疫情前估啦！"],["林次長國顯：疫情前我們去是大概805億的消費，他們來是739億。"],["蘇委員巧慧：次長，我是這樣覺得，守護臺灣安全，全國一體一致，所以大家往這個方向前進，但如果受到損害的個人，我們當然應該要協助與保障，今天是在全體旅遊業者裡面的一成，還是不到一成？"],["林次長國顯：對，大概一成。"],["蘇委員巧慧：差不多一成左右有受到影響，而且它的業務我們是用50%計算，表示不是全部嘛！"],["林次長國顯：對，它還可以有東南亞、歐洲……"],["蘇委員巧慧：其實我們應該要協助的是，現在臺商都在回流了，大部分的臺商都已經不把雞蛋放在中國了，我們也應該協助旅遊業者把雞蛋移到其他的籃子啊！那我就給你看現在我們國家有多少的優惠措施可以協助這些業者，老實講，我現在看到的，因為疫情紓困的措施已經落日了，所以補貼營運負擔、薪資、員工，這些大概都沒有了，現在是疫後有一個加速擴大吸引國際觀光客方案，請問這個經營赴中團的業者可以用到嗎？不行吧！因為它要吸引國際觀光客，中國客就不來啊！他怎麼來？"],["林次長國顯：以入境為主。"],["蘇委員巧慧：就不行嘛！所以我遍查所有的方案，其實你的這個優惠方案它是吃不到的。"],["林次長國顯：跟委員報告，旅行業者它可以做出境跟入境，兩邊都可以選擇，所以如果出境到大陸旅遊不行，第一個，它也可以選擇東南亞、日本或是歐美。"],["蘇委員巧慧：這是剛剛說的雞蛋不要放在同個籃子裡嘛！"],["林次長國顯：對，第二個，它也可以以來臺灣旅遊為主……"],["蘇委員巧慧：來臺灣的部分，如果它的客源本來都是中國客的話，那它就沒有辦法用到這個了。所以我的意思是說，我贊成你剛剛的配套措施，我要求要有更多的、我建議要有更多的，此時此刻的這個我認為用不上，我建議你們研議。"],["林次長國顯：好，我們跟觀光署來討論。"],["蘇委員巧慧：好，謝謝。"],["林次長國顯：謝謝委員"],["主席：謝謝巧慧委員，這個就是我剛剛說的，交通部和觀光署，你們今天好像在這個會議裡面都沒有談到這個部分，好像權責不是你們的一樣，剛好巧慧委員提出這個問題你們才做說明，以後我希望你們也把你們的報告按照你們的權責，還有把你們可以怎麼樣解決問題也寫上來。今天交通部、觀光署，我們都看不到，你們跟陸委會的報告好像是一模一樣，同出一轍，我覺得這是不對的，謝謝。","繼續我們請牛煦庭委員來質詢，謝謝。"]],"agenda":{"page_end":76,"meet_id":"委員會-11-1-15-3","speakers":["高金素梅","徐欣瑩","王美惠","吳琪銘","蘇巧慧","牛煦庭","張宏陸","黃建賓","黃捷","許宇甄","李柏毅","張智倫","丁學忠","麥玉珍","鄭天財Sra 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\"討\"}, {\"word\": \"論\"}, {\"word\": \"交\", \"start\": 640.455, \"end\": 640.775, \"score\": 0.937}, {\"word\": \"通\", \"start\": 640.775, \"end\": 640.835, \"score\": 0.666}, {\"word\": \"部\", \"start\": 640.835, \"end\": 640.936, \"score\": 0.799}, {\"word\": \"與\"}, {\"word\": \"觀\"}, {\"word\": \"光\", \"start\": 640.936, \"end\": 640.976, \"score\": 0.49}, {\"word\": \"署\", \"start\": 640.976, \"end\": 640.996, \"score\": 0.0}], \"language\": \"zh\"}","srt":"1\n00:00:02,890 --> 00:00:05,758\n主席、邱三山主委、林次長邱主委、林次長\n\n2\n00:00:11,569 --> 00:00:39,815\n主委好請邱主委先我們今天的題目其實是這個赴陸旅遊團停招其實就是禁止組團赴中旅遊這件事情對台灣社會想要了解這個前因後果和未來的影響那我在不管是陸委會的報告還是交通部的報告裡面其實都看到大家提到的是兩個原因第一個的話當然是基於平等原則之下的國家利益要平等要對等\n\n3\n00:00:40,995 --> 00:00:41,476\n蘇巧慧\n\n4\n00:01:04,817 --> 00:01:10,363\n開放中國赴中國團之後我們其實本來喔你當時在開的時候你就有加一個但書嘛如果對方有同等善意的話那我們要開嘛當時的決定是這樣子好結果在這個過程當中我自己看嘛大家都可以查新聞嘛包括墨魯斷交嘛\n\n5\n00:01:22,236 --> 00:01:48,945\n那包括最後這個M503航線變動等於在我的看法是最後一根稻草啦好可是我想問的是說請問陸委會在這個中國觀光業對我開放的態度對我們不平等這是其一M503就是航線變動這是第二這兩個原因哪一個原因是今天台灣不開放副中團的\n\n6\n00:01:50,285 --> 00:01:50,405\n蘇巧慧議員\n\n7\n00:02:11,718 --> 00:02:14,881\n兩個都涉及國家利益啊我現在其實我今天我還是監督政府監督陸委會主委我今天就是要跟你就教我認為M503航線的變動其實它是一個看不見的利益我們今天在討論觀光業沒有辦法附中沒有辦法組團附中對對台灣的影響當然很大\n\n8\n00:02:38,499 --> 00:02:38,539\n蘇巧慧議員\n\n9\n00:03:08,399 --> 00:03:09,000\n講到觀光有9次M503只有一次\n\n10\n00:03:24,313 --> 00:03:43,510\n現在給你時間主委M503的變動對台灣的國安、非安影響到底有多大第一個所有M503或者說所有的航線其實都是交通部他們組長的那各位都知道有一個IQ國際民航組織所有的航線的變動那基本上都涉及到\n\n11\n00:03:44,230 --> 00:03:44,350\n﹚蘇巧慧﹚\n\n12\n00:03:59,087 --> 00:04:07,193\n蘇巧慧第二點因為他不是只有M503而已他又宣布了三條航線是東西向的W123、W122和W121嘛那這個都會增加所有的航班那是專業的部分\n\n13\n00:04:15,419 --> 00:04:37,175\n民安局他可以講,甚至涉及到國安,因為我們的國防部他所有的軍機﹖不斷增加台灣的軍備壓力﹖增加的這樣的一個航次航班都會影響到,特別是他又不願意按照具有的默契在往前移,所以我們的反制的時間點就會被壓縮\n\n14\n00:04:37,895 --> 00:04:38,495\n從2007年的時候那時候是陳水扁總統的時代\n\n15\n00:05:04,821 --> 00:05:12,446\n中國就想要設置M503可是那個時候我們是透過外交途徑把它給擋掉了嘛這是2007年是真正擋掉2015年剛剛在說馬英九時代的時候沒有喔我們是從沒有M503在馬英九總統的時期\n\n16\n00:05:22,393 --> 00:05:22,453\n蘇巧慧\n\n17\n00:05:46,873 --> 00:05:54,855\n蘇巧慧,那個時候他們要從,就是剛剛說的嘛,W123,要從中國飛機過來台灣,那個時候因為時間點剛好是春節包機,所以他們有這個東方航空、廈門航空要飛過來,所以我們可以用準博的博把它擋回去嘛,對不對?但現在2024年的現在,有飛機要飛過來嗎?其實坦白講也沒有啊,因為入客根本不來啊。\n\n18\n00:06:11,118 --> 00:06:11,158\n蘇巧慧\n\n19\n00:06:28,030 --> 00:06:53,472\n這麼大的國安事件只是因為它不是因為跟個人相關它是跟我們台灣整體國家相關看不到摸不到但如此做到你陸委會怎麼沒有用相同的量能去向國人來解釋M503航線被片面片更就是中國再一次把航線圖調出來中國再一次往我們的中線靠近這跟今夏海域衝突事件親盟打轟有什麼不一樣\n\n20\n00:06:54,893 --> 00:07:16,928\n不是一樣的道理嗎?所以最後一根稻草很重,它不是稻草而已啊!所以中國對台灣的態度到底是什麼?其實應該要看得很清楚,我感覺陸委會這應該要多講啦!好!委員的指教我們會來加強啦!事實上我們在前幾個禮拜的這個例行的記者會,我們大概都有提到是啊!但是我們想說\n\n21\n00:07:22,573 --> 00:07:36,249\n關關講得比較多啦這是我的意見請主委參考我認為應該要多講一點看不到摸不到但是守護台灣重要的事情還是應該讓國人了解那接下來我們要講看得到的關關的部分請林次\n\n22\n00:07:37,911 --> 00:07:58,822\n我們來講觀光觀光好了剛剛有說我們基於平等的部分順差跟密差的部分大家都已經清楚了那我想請教我們現在台灣有多少間旅行社如果因為禁止附中團的話那其實受到重大衝擊的應該就是以中國為主要業務的旅行團\n\n23\n00:07:59,622 --> 00:08:04,504\n目前旅行社根據觀光署的統計大概4038家那您提到了超過50%以上做大陸旅遊的大概有404家大概10%不到\n\n24\n00:08:23,651 --> 00:08:41,786\n10%不到但它的業績與月額受到的影響你們有評估嗎去應該用2019年估啦2019年疫情前要用疫情前估啦疫情前去是大概805億的消費我們去那他們來是739億好\n\n25\n00:08:45,816 --> 00:09:12,106\n市長我是這樣覺得我們守護台灣安全全國一體一制所以大家往這個方向前進但如果受到損害的個人我們當然應該要協助與保障今天是在全體旅遊業者裡面的你說一層對大概一層左右還是不到一層差不多一層左右大概一層左右有受到影響而且他的業務我們是用50%計算表示不是全部對他還跟中南亞、歐洲\n\n26\n00:09:14,707 --> 00:09:15,348\n蘇巧慧蘇巧慧\n\n27\n00:09:31,520 --> 00:09:47,039\n委員會措施可以協助這個業者老實講我現在看到的因為疫情紓困的這個措施已經落日了嘛所以補貼營運負擔薪資員工這些大概都沒有了現在的話是疫後有一個加速擴大吸引國際觀光客方案請問這個在經營附中團的業者可以用到嗎\n\n28\n00:09:52,062 --> 00:09:55,184\n旅行業者可以做出境跟入境,兩邊都可以選擇\n\n29\n00:10:10,114 --> 00:10:10,454\n我們跟觀光署來討論\n\n30\n00:10:40,455 --> 00:10:40,996\n交通部與觀光署\n\n","tsv":"start\tend\ttext\n2890\t5758\t主席、邱三山主委、林次長邱主委、林次長\n11569\t39815\t主委好 請邱主委先我們今天的題目其實是這個赴陸旅遊團停招其實就是禁止組團赴中旅遊這件事情對台灣社會想要了解這個前因後果和未來的影響那我在不管是陸委會的報告還是交通部的報告裡面其實都看到大家提到的是兩個原因第一個的話當然是基於平等原則之下的國家利益要平等要對等\n40995\t41476\t蘇巧慧\n64817\t70363\t開放中國赴中國團之後我們其實本來喔你當時在開的時候你就有加一個但書嘛如果對方有同等善意的話那我們要開嘛當時的決定是這樣子好結果在這個過程當中我自己看嘛大家都可以查新聞嘛包括墨魯斷交嘛\n82236\t108945\t那包括最後這個M503航線變動等於在我的看法是最後一根稻草啦好可是我想問的是說請問陸委會在這個中國觀光業對我開放的態度對我們不平等這是其一M503就是航線變動這是第二這兩個原因哪一個原因是今天台灣不開放副中團的\n110285\t110405\t蘇巧慧議員\n131718\t134881\t兩個都涉及國家利益啊我現在其實我今天我還是監督政府監督陸委會主委我今天就是要跟你就教我認為M503航線的變動其實它是一個看不見的利益我們今天在討論觀光業沒有辦法附中沒有辦法組團附中對對台灣的影響當然很大\n158499\t158539\t蘇巧慧議員\n188399\t189000\t講到觀光有9次M503只有一次\n204313\t223510\t現在給你時間 主委M503的變動對台灣的國安、非安影響到底有多大第一個所有M503或者說所有的航線其實都是交通部他們組長的那各位都知道有一個IQ 國際民航組織所有的航線的變動那基本上都涉及到\n224230\t224350\t﹚蘇巧慧﹚\n239087\t247193\t蘇巧慧 第二點因為他不是只有M503而已他又宣布了三條航線是東西向的W123、W122和W121嘛那這個都會增加所有的航班那是專業的部分\n255419\t277175\t民安局他可以講,甚至涉及到國安,因為我們的國防部他所有的軍機﹖不斷增加台灣的軍備壓力﹖增加的這樣的一個航次航班都會影響到,特別是他又不願意按照具有的默契在往前移,所以我們的反制的時間點就會被壓縮\n277895\t278495\t從2007年的時候那時候是陳水扁總統的時代\n304821\t312446\t中國就想要設置M503可是那個時候我們是透過外交途徑把它給擋掉了嘛這是2007年是真正擋掉2015年剛剛在說馬英九時代的時候沒有喔我們是從沒有M503在馬英九總統的時期\n322393\t322453\t蘇巧慧\n346873\t354855\t蘇巧慧,那個時候他們要從,就是剛剛說的嘛,W123,要從中國飛機過來台灣,那個時候因為時間點剛好是春節包機,所以他們有這個東方航空、廈門航空要飛過來,所以我們可以用準博的博把它擋回去嘛,對不對?但現在2024年的現在,有飛機要飛過來嗎?其實坦白講也沒有啊,因為入客根本不來啊。\n371118\t371158\t蘇巧慧\n388030\t413472\t這麼大的國安事件只是因為它不是因為跟個人相關它是跟我們台灣整體國家相關看不到摸不到但如此做到你陸委會怎麼沒有用相同的量能去向國人來解釋M503航線被片面片更就是中國再一次把航線圖調出來中國再一次往我們的中線靠近這跟今夏海域衝突事件親盟打轟有什麼不一樣\n414893\t436928\t不是一樣的道理嗎?所以最後一根稻草很重,它不是稻草而已啊!所以中國對台灣的態度到底是什麼?其實應該要看得很清楚,我感覺陸委會這應該要多講啦!好!委員的指教我們會來加強啦!事實上我們在前幾個禮拜的這個例行的記者會,我們大概都有提到是啊!但是我們想說\n442573\t456249\t關關講得比較多啦這是我的意見請主委參考我認為應該要多講一點看不到摸不到但是守護台灣重要的事情還是應該讓國人了解那接下來我們要講看得到的關關的部分請林次\n457911\t478822\t我們來講觀光觀光好了剛剛有說我們基於平等的部分順差跟密差的部分大家都已經清楚了那我想請教我們現在台灣有多少間旅行社如果因為禁止附中團的話那其實受到重大衝擊的應該就是以中國為主要業務的旅行團\n479622\t484504\t目前旅行社根據觀光署的統計大概4038家那您提到了超過50%以上做大陸旅遊的大概有404家大概10%不到\n503651\t521786\t10%不到但它的業績與月額受到的影響你們有評估嗎去應該用2019年估啦2019年疫情前要用疫情前估啦疫情前去是大概805億的消費我們去那他們來是739億好\n525816\t552106\t市長我是這樣覺得我們守護台灣安全全國一體一制所以大家往這個方向前進但如果受到損害的個人我們當然應該要協助與保障今天是在全體旅遊業者裡面的你說一層對大概一層左右還是不到一層差不多一層左右大概一層左右有受到影響而且他的業務我們是用50%計算表示不是全部對他還跟中南亞、歐洲\n554707\t555348\t蘇巧慧 蘇巧慧\n571520\t587039\t委員會措施可以協助這個業者老實講我現在看到的因為疫情紓困的這個措施已經落日了嘛所以補貼營運負擔薪資員工這些大概都沒有了現在的話是疫後有一個加速擴大吸引國際觀光客方案請問這個在經營附中團的業者可以用到嗎\n592062\t595184\t旅行業者可以做出境跟入境,兩邊都可以選擇\n610114\t610454\t我們跟觀光署來討論\n640455\t640996\t交通部與觀光署\n","txt":"主席、邱三山主委、林次長邱主委、林次長\n主委好 請邱主委先我們今天的題目其實是這個赴陸旅遊團停招其實就是禁止組團赴中旅遊這件事情對台灣社會想要了解這個前因後果和未來的影響那我在不管是陸委會的報告還是交通部的報告裡面其實都看到大家提到的是兩個原因第一個的話當然是基於平等原則之下的國家利益要平等要對等\n蘇巧慧\n開放中國赴中國團之後我們其實本來喔你當時在開的時候你就有加一個但書嘛如果對方有同等善意的話那我們要開嘛當時的決定是這樣子好結果在這個過程當中我自己看嘛大家都可以查新聞嘛包括墨魯斷交嘛\n那包括最後這個M503航線變動等於在我的看法是最後一根稻草啦好可是我想問的是說請問陸委會在這個中國觀光業對我開放的態度對我們不平等這是其一M503就是航線變動這是第二這兩個原因哪一個原因是今天台灣不開放副中團的\n蘇巧慧議員\n兩個都涉及國家利益啊我現在其實我今天我還是監督政府監督陸委會主委我今天就是要跟你就教我認為M503航線的變動其實它是一個看不見的利益我們今天在討論觀光業沒有辦法附中沒有辦法組團附中對對台灣的影響當然很大\n蘇巧慧議員\n講到觀光有9次M503只有一次\n現在給你時間 主委M503的變動對台灣的國安、非安影響到底有多大第一個所有M503或者說所有的航線其實都是交通部他們組長的那各位都知道有一個IQ 國際民航組織所有的航線的變動那基本上都涉及到\n﹚蘇巧慧﹚\n蘇巧慧 第二點因為他不是只有M503而已他又宣布了三條航線是東西向的W123、W122和W121嘛那這個都會增加所有的航班那是專業的部分\n民安局他可以講,甚至涉及到國安,因為我們的國防部他所有的軍機﹖不斷增加台灣的軍備壓力﹖增加的這樣的一個航次航班都會影響到,特別是他又不願意按照具有的默契在往前移,所以我們的反制的時間點就會被壓縮\n從2007年的時候那時候是陳水扁總統的時代\n中國就想要設置M503可是那個時候我們是透過外交途徑把它給擋掉了嘛這是2007年是真正擋掉2015年剛剛在說馬英九時代的時候沒有喔我們是從沒有M503在馬英九總統的時期\n蘇巧慧\n蘇巧慧,那個時候他們要從,就是剛剛說的嘛,W123,要從中國飛機過來台灣,那個時候因為時間點剛好是春節包機,所以他們有這個東方航空、廈門航空要飛過來,所以我們可以用準博的博把它擋回去嘛,對不對?但現在2024年的現在,有飛機要飛過來嗎?其實坦白講也沒有啊,因為入客根本不來啊。\n蘇巧慧\n這麼大的國安事件只是因為它不是因為跟個人相關它是跟我們台灣整體國家相關看不到摸不到但如此做到你陸委會怎麼沒有用相同的量能去向國人來解釋M503航線被片面片更就是中國再一次把航線圖調出來中國再一次往我們的中線靠近這跟今夏海域衝突事件親盟打轟有什麼不一樣\n不是一樣的道理嗎?所以最後一根稻草很重,它不是稻草而已啊!所以中國對台灣的態度到底是什麼?其實應該要看得很清楚,我感覺陸委會這應該要多講啦!好!委員的指教我們會來加強啦!事實上我們在前幾個禮拜的這個例行的記者會,我們大概都有提到是啊!但是我們想說\n關關講得比較多啦這是我的意見請主委參考我認為應該要多講一點看不到摸不到但是守護台灣重要的事情還是應該讓國人了解那接下來我們要講看得到的關關的部分請林次\n我們來講觀光觀光好了剛剛有說我們基於平等的部分順差跟密差的部分大家都已經清楚了那我想請教我們現在台灣有多少間旅行社如果因為禁止附中團的話那其實受到重大衝擊的應該就是以中國為主要業務的旅行團\n目前旅行社根據觀光署的統計大概4038家那您提到了超過50%以上做大陸旅遊的大概有404家大概10%不到\n10%不到但它的業績與月額受到的影響你們有評估嗎去應該用2019年估啦2019年疫情前要用疫情前估啦疫情前去是大概805億的消費我們去那他們來是739億好\n市長我是這樣覺得我們守護台灣安全全國一體一制所以大家往這個方向前進但如果受到損害的個人我們當然應該要協助與保障今天是在全體旅遊業者裡面的你說一層對大概一層左右還是不到一層差不多一層左右大概一層左右有受到影響而且他的業務我們是用50%計算表示不是全部對他還跟中南亞、歐洲\n蘇巧慧 蘇巧慧\n委員會措施可以協助這個業者老實講我現在看到的因為疫情紓困的這個措施已經落日了嘛所以補貼營運負擔薪資員工這些大概都沒有了現在的話是疫後有一個加速擴大吸引國際觀光客方案請問這個在經營附中團的業者可以用到嗎\n旅行業者可以做出境跟入境,兩邊都可以選擇\n我們跟觀光署來討論\n交通部與觀光署\n","vtt":"WEBVTT\n\n00:02.890 --> 00:05.758\n主席、邱三山主委、林次長邱主委、林次長\n\n00:11.569 --> 00:39.815\n主委好請邱主委先我們今天的題目其實是這個赴陸旅遊團停招其實就是禁止組團赴中旅遊這件事情對台灣社會想要了解這個前因後果和未來的影響那我在不管是陸委會的報告還是交通部的報告裡面其實都看到大家提到的是兩個原因第一個的話當然是基於平等原則之下的國家利益要平等要對等\n\n00:40.995 --> 00:41.476\n蘇巧慧\n\n01:04.817 --> 01:10.363\n開放中國赴中國團之後我們其實本來喔你當時在開的時候你就有加一個但書嘛如果對方有同等善意的話那我們要開嘛當時的決定是這樣子好結果在這個過程當中我自己看嘛大家都可以查新聞嘛包括墨魯斷交嘛\n\n01:22.236 --> 01:48.945\n那包括最後這個M503航線變動等於在我的看法是最後一根稻草啦好可是我想問的是說請問陸委會在這個中國觀光業對我開放的態度對我們不平等這是其一M503就是航線變動這是第二這兩個原因哪一個原因是今天台灣不開放副中團的\n\n01:50.285 --> 01:50.405\n蘇巧慧議員\n\n02:11.718 --> 02:14.881\n兩個都涉及國家利益啊我現在其實我今天我還是監督政府監督陸委會主委我今天就是要跟你就教我認為M503航線的變動其實它是一個看不見的利益我們今天在討論觀光業沒有辦法附中沒有辦法組團附中對對台灣的影響當然很大\n\n02:38.499 --> 02:38.539\n蘇巧慧議員\n\n03:08.399 --> 03:09.000\n講到觀光有9次M503只有一次\n\n03:24.313 --> 03:43.510\n現在給你時間主委M503的變動對台灣的國安、非安影響到底有多大第一個所有M503或者說所有的航線其實都是交通部他們組長的那各位都知道有一個IQ國際民航組織所有的航線的變動那基本上都涉及到\n\n03:44.230 --> 03:44.350\n﹚蘇巧慧﹚\n\n03:59.087 --> 04:07.193\n蘇巧慧第二點因為他不是只有M503而已他又宣布了三條航線是東西向的W123、W122和W121嘛那這個都會增加所有的航班那是專業的部分\n\n04:15.419 --> 04:37.175\n民安局他可以講,甚至涉及到國安,因為我們的國防部他所有的軍機﹖不斷增加台灣的軍備壓力﹖增加的這樣的一個航次航班都會影響到,特別是他又不願意按照具有的默契在往前移,所以我們的反制的時間點就會被壓縮\n\n04:37.895 --> 04:38.495\n從2007年的時候那時候是陳水扁總統的時代\n\n05:04.821 --> 05:12.446\n中國就想要設置M503可是那個時候我們是透過外交途徑把它給擋掉了嘛這是2007年是真正擋掉2015年剛剛在說馬英九時代的時候沒有喔我們是從沒有M503在馬英九總統的時期\n\n05:22.393 --> 05:22.453\n蘇巧慧\n\n05:46.873 --> 05:54.855\n蘇巧慧,那個時候他們要從,就是剛剛說的嘛,W123,要從中國飛機過來台灣,那個時候因為時間點剛好是春節包機,所以他們有這個東方航空、廈門航空要飛過來,所以我們可以用準博的博把它擋回去嘛,對不對?但現在2024年的現在,有飛機要飛過來嗎?其實坦白講也沒有啊,因為入客根本不來啊。\n\n06:11.118 --> 06:11.158\n蘇巧慧\n\n06:28.030 --> 06:53.472\n這麼大的國安事件只是因為它不是因為跟個人相關它是跟我們台灣整體國家相關看不到摸不到但如此做到你陸委會怎麼沒有用相同的量能去向國人來解釋M503航線被片面片更就是中國再一次把航線圖調出來中國再一次往我們的中線靠近這跟今夏海域衝突事件親盟打轟有什麼不一樣\n\n06:54.893 --> 07:16.928\n不是一樣的道理嗎?所以最後一根稻草很重,它不是稻草而已啊!所以中國對台灣的態度到底是什麼?其實應該要看得很清楚,我感覺陸委會這應該要多講啦!好!委員的指教我們會來加強啦!事實上我們在前幾個禮拜的這個例行的記者會,我們大概都有提到是啊!但是我們想說\n\n07:22.573 --> 07:36.249\n關關講得比較多啦這是我的意見請主委參考我認為應該要多講一點看不到摸不到但是守護台灣重要的事情還是應該讓國人了解那接下來我們要講看得到的關關的部分請林次\n\n07:37.911 --> 07:58.822\n我們來講觀光觀光好了剛剛有說我們基於平等的部分順差跟密差的部分大家都已經清楚了那我想請教我們現在台灣有多少間旅行社如果因為禁止附中團的話那其實受到重大衝擊的應該就是以中國為主要業務的旅行團\n\n07:59.622 --> 08:04.504\n目前旅行社根據觀光署的統計大概4038家那您提到了超過50%以上做大陸旅遊的大概有404家大概10%不到\n\n08:23.651 --> 08:41.786\n10%不到但它的業績與月額受到的影響你們有評估嗎去應該用2019年估啦2019年疫情前要用疫情前估啦疫情前去是大概805億的消費我們去那他們來是739億好\n\n08:45.816 --> 09:12.106\n市長我是這樣覺得我們守護台灣安全全國一體一制所以大家往這個方向前進但如果受到損害的個人我們當然應該要協助與保障今天是在全體旅遊業者裡面的你說一層對大概一層左右還是不到一層差不多一層左右大概一層左右有受到影響而且他的業務我們是用50%計算表示不是全部對他還跟中南亞、歐洲\n\n09:14.707 --> 09:15.348\n蘇巧慧蘇巧慧\n\n09:31.520 --> 09:47.039\n委員會措施可以協助這個業者老實講我現在看到的因為疫情紓困的這個措施已經落日了嘛所以補貼營運負擔薪資員工這些大概都沒有了現在的話是疫後有一個加速擴大吸引國際觀光客方案請問這個在經營附中團的業者可以用到嗎\n\n09:52.062 --> 09:55.184\n旅行業者可以做出境跟入境,兩邊都可以選擇\n\n10:10.114 --> 10:10.454\n我們跟觀光署來討論\n\n10:40.455 --> 10:40.996\n交通部與觀光署\n\n","segments":[{"start":2.89,"end":5.758,"text":"主席、邱三山主委、林次長邱主委、林次長"},{"start":11.569,"end":39.815,"text":"主委好 請邱主委先我們今天的題目其實是這個赴陸旅遊團停招其實就是禁止組團赴中旅遊這件事情對台灣社會想要了解這個前因後果和未來的影響那我在不管是陸委會的報告還是交通部的報告裡面其實都看到大家提到的是兩個原因第一個的話當然是基於平等原則之下的國家利益要平等要對等"},{"start":40.995,"end":41.476,"text":"蘇巧慧"},{"start":64.817,"end":70.363,"text":"開放中國赴中國團之後我們其實本來喔你當時在開的時候你就有加一個但書嘛如果對方有同等善意的話那我們要開嘛當時的決定是這樣子好結果在這個過程當中我自己看嘛大家都可以查新聞嘛包括墨魯斷交嘛"},{"start":82.236,"end":108.945,"text":"那包括最後這個M503航線變動等於在我的看法是最後一根稻草啦好可是我想問的是說請問陸委會在這個中國觀光業對我開放的態度對我們不平等這是其一M503就是航線變動這是第二這兩個原因哪一個原因是今天台灣不開放副中團的"},{"start":110.285,"end":110.405,"text":"蘇巧慧議員"},{"start":131.718,"end":134.881,"text":"兩個都涉及國家利益啊我現在其實我今天我還是監督政府監督陸委會主委我今天就是要跟你就教我認為M503航線的變動其實它是一個看不見的利益我們今天在討論觀光業沒有辦法附中沒有辦法組團附中對對台灣的影響當然很大"},{"start":158.499,"end":158.539,"text":"蘇巧慧議員"},{"start":188.399,"end":189,"text":"講到觀光有9次M503只有一次"},{"start":204.313,"end":223.51,"text":"現在給你時間 主委M503的變動對台灣的國安、非安影響到底有多大第一個所有M503或者說所有的航線其實都是交通部他們組長的那各位都知道有一個IQ 國際民航組織所有的航線的變動那基本上都涉及到"},{"start":224.23,"end":224.35,"text":"﹚蘇巧慧﹚"},{"start":239.087,"end":247.193,"text":"蘇巧慧 第二點因為他不是只有M503而已他又宣布了三條航線是東西向的W123、W122和W121嘛那這個都會增加所有的航班那是專業的部分"},{"start":255.419,"end":277.175,"text":"民安局他可以講,甚至涉及到國安,因為我們的國防部他所有的軍機﹖不斷增加台灣的軍備壓力﹖增加的這樣的一個航次航班都會影響到,特別是他又不願意按照具有的默契在往前移,所以我們的反制的時間點就會被壓縮"},{"start":277.895,"end":278.495,"text":"從2007年的時候那時候是陳水扁總統的時代"},{"start":304.821,"end":312.446,"text":"中國就想要設置M503可是那個時候我們是透過外交途徑把它給擋掉了嘛這是2007年是真正擋掉2015年剛剛在說馬英九時代的時候沒有喔我們是從沒有M503在馬英九總統的時期"},{"start":322.393,"end":322.453,"text":"蘇巧慧"},{"start":346.873,"end":354.855,"text":"蘇巧慧,那個時候他們要從,就是剛剛說的嘛,W123,要從中國飛機過來台灣,那個時候因為時間點剛好是春節包機,所以他們有這個東方航空、廈門航空要飛過來,所以我們可以用準博的博把它擋回去嘛,對不對?但現在2024年的現在,有飛機要飛過來嗎?其實坦白講也沒有啊,因為入客根本不來啊。"},{"start":371.118,"end":371.158,"text":"蘇巧慧"},{"start":388.03,"end":413.472,"text":"這麼大的國安事件只是因為它不是因為跟個人相關它是跟我們台灣整體國家相關看不到摸不到但如此做到你陸委會怎麼沒有用相同的量能去向國人來解釋M503航線被片面片更就是中國再一次把航線圖調出來中國再一次往我們的中線靠近這跟今夏海域衝突事件親盟打轟有什麼不一樣"},{"start":414.893,"end":436.928,"text":"不是一樣的道理嗎?所以最後一根稻草很重,它不是稻草而已啊!所以中國對台灣的態度到底是什麼?其實應該要看得很清楚,我感覺陸委會這應該要多講啦!好!委員的指教我們會來加強啦!事實上我們在前幾個禮拜的這個例行的記者會,我們大概都有提到是啊!但是我們想說"},{"start":442.573,"end":456.249,"text":"關關講得比較多啦這是我的意見請主委參考我認為應該要多講一點看不到摸不到但是守護台灣重要的事情還是應該讓國人了解那接下來我們要講看得到的關關的部分請林次"},{"start":457.911,"end":478.822,"text":"我們來講觀光觀光好了剛剛有說我們基於平等的部分順差跟密差的部分大家都已經清楚了那我想請教我們現在台灣有多少間旅行社如果因為禁止附中團的話那其實受到重大衝擊的應該就是以中國為主要業務的旅行團"},{"start":479.622,"end":484.504,"text":"目前旅行社根據觀光署的統計大概4038家那您提到了超過50%以上做大陸旅遊的大概有404家大概10%不到"},{"start":503.651,"end":521.786,"text":"10%不到但它的業績與月額受到的影響你們有評估嗎去應該用2019年估啦2019年疫情前要用疫情前估啦疫情前去是大概805億的消費我們去那他們來是739億好"},{"start":525.816,"end":552.106,"text":"市長我是這樣覺得我們守護台灣安全全國一體一制所以大家往這個方向前進但如果受到損害的個人我們當然應該要協助與保障今天是在全體旅遊業者裡面的你說一層對大概一層左右還是不到一層差不多一層左右大概一層左右有受到影響而且他的業務我們是用50%計算表示不是全部對他還跟中南亞、歐洲"},{"start":554.707,"end":555.348,"text":"蘇巧慧 蘇巧慧"},{"start":571.52,"end":587.039,"text":"委員會措施可以協助這個業者老實講我現在看到的因為疫情紓困的這個措施已經落日了嘛所以補貼營運負擔薪資員工這些大概都沒有了現在的話是疫後有一個加速擴大吸引國際觀光客方案請問這個在經營附中團的業者可以用到嗎"},{"start":592.062,"end":595.184,"text":"旅行業者可以做出境跟入境,兩邊都可以選擇"},{"start":610.114,"end":610.454,"text":"我們跟觀光署來討論"},{"start":640.455,"end":640.996,"text":"交通部與觀光署"}]}}}}