{"id":149377,"url":"https://ivod.ly.gov.tw/Play/Clip/1M/149377","video_url":"https://ivod-lyvod.cdn.hinet.net/vod_1/_definst_/mp4:1MClips/aa454a369d2b172fe55a23d80efe835eb97b2be93641c974f8ba9b0039caa7a65ab69b334a180b4b5ea18f28b6918d91.mp4/playlist.m3u8","委員名稱":"張宏陸","委員發言時間":"10:03:41 - 10:13:22","影片長度":"00:09:41","會議時間":"2024-03-06T09:00:00+08:00","會議名稱":"立法院第11屆第1會期內政委員會第3次全體委員會議（事由：邀請大陸委員會主任委員及交通部次長、交通部觀光署署長就「赴陸旅遊團停招：決策過程與後續影響評估」進行專題報告，並備質詢。）","meet":{"tmpMeeting":null,"title":"第11屆第1會期內政委員會第3次全體委員會議","term":11,"type":"委員會","sessionPeriod":1,"sessionTimes":3,"committees":[15],"id":"委員會-11-1-15-3"},"date":"2024-03-06","duration":581,"end_time":"2024-03-06T10:13:22+08:00","start_time":"2024-03-06T10:03:41+08:00","features":["ai-transcript","gazette"],"type":"Clip","gazette":{"lineno":439,"blocks":[["張委員宏陸：（10時3分）我請陸委會邱主委，還有交通部林次長。"],["主席（牛委員煦庭代）：請就備詢位置，謝謝。"],["邱主任委員太三：張委員好。"],["張委員宏陸：主委跟次長，其實一般的國家跟國家在談不管是航權、不管是經貿、不管是什麼，最重要的是不是就是要對等？"],["邱主任委員太三：這是基本上國際經貿大家期待的原則。"],["張委員宏陸：不、不，主委，應該不是期待的原則，應該是普世的原則、普世的價值才對吧！"],["邱主任委員太三：對。"],["張委員宏陸：我說的是一般國際上嘛，對不對？"],["邱主任委員太三：對。"],["張委員宏陸：所以我們在跟中國要談不管是我們的旅遊或什麼，其實最主要還是要對等吧，我們不能矮人一截啊，是不是？"],["邱主任委員太三：不是只有矮人一截，大家利益上總是要有機會來做這樣的一個……"],["張委員宏陸：不是，我們先不要講利益，不管在談什麼，一定是這樣啊！"],["邱主任委員太三：對，基本原則一定是這樣。"],["張委員宏陸：對啊！時代已經不一樣了，不是以天朝自居了，一定都是對等。所以在對等的前提之下，也要保護我們本國各行各業的產業吧，這是最基本的吧。"],["邱主任委員太三：當然，我想所有政府部門、經貿部門，包括觀光部門都是採取這樣的一個原則跟態度。"],["張委員宏陸：對嘛，我們在跟美國、在跟全世界各個國家不管在談經貿或什麼，大家都是要對等，而且都是要在本國的立場上去爭取本國產業行業最大的利益吧，對不對？"],["邱主任委員太三：對。"],["張委員宏陸：至少不能讓我們本國業者無法生存。我舉很多例子，我們加入WTO或是什麼，對於我們臺灣的農業，跟美國、跟全世界在談判，也是以保護我們臺灣的農民為優先，是不是這樣？"],["邱主任委員太三：是的。"],["張委員宏陸：所以回到這個，能不能夠跟中國開放團體客？我想請問一下次長。"],["林次長國顯：是，委員好。"],["張委員宏陸：我手頭上的資料，如果中國不開放陸客來臺灣，我們一年的損失是739億，是不是？"],["林次長國顯：這是2019年的標準，疫情前的標準。"],["張委員宏陸：疫情前的標準嘛，所以如果他們沒有開放來臺，我們臺灣一年損失就是739億，對不對？沒錯嘛。"],["林次長國顯：對，等於沒有開放團客，國內相關的旅行、交通、食宿、餐飲、購物都會受相關的影響，就不會有相關的消費。"],["張委員宏陸：對嘛，我說這個金額就是739億，對不對？"],["林次長國顯：對，以當初的水準是。"],["張委員宏陸：對嘛，那以現在來講應該更多嘛，在什麼都漲的情況下。所以如果中國不開放他們的團客來，而我們開放我們的團客去，我們一年就損失739億，次長，如果你們做了這個決定，臺灣很多本土業者，如餐飲業者、民宿業者等等，會不會上街抗議？會不會找你們、會不會抗議？"],["林次長國顯：跟委員報告，確實您提的是重點，我們在處理觀光業者的部分，有出境跟入境，您提的這個是，我們一方面要考慮出境業者，我們叫做outbound，要考慮outbound業者的權益，一方面也要考慮國內本土旅遊業者的相關生計，所以我們也得考慮大陸如果不開放的話，對本土業者是傷害的。"],["張委員宏陸：對啦，除了對我們的本土業者，這些本土所有觀光、接待陸客團體的餐飲業者是一個傷害之外，這也是我們跟對岸要談判的一個籌碼啊，對不對？"],["林次長國顯：是。"],["張委員宏陸：我們要保護我們的業者，這是合情合理、全世界都是同一個標準嘛。"],["林次長國顯：我們其實是希望兩岸對等開放，所以從去年8月24號開始就一直希望釋出這樣的善意後，希望陸方也能夠對等，回應要不要開放團客來臺，但一直都沒有……"],["張委員宏陸：不是，這個我們都知道，我們希望對等談判，我剛才一開始就講了，我們也沒有不開放，現在是中國不開放，所以才卡在這裡嘛，這是重點，是不是？"],["林次長國顯：瞭解，是，沒錯。"],["張委員宏陸：我們為什麼卡在這裡？我們要保護我們本土的業者，要不要？"],["林次長國顯：對，這是考慮的重要因素。"],["張委員宏陸：這應該是很重要的因素之一，這要跟大家講。"],["林次長國顯：是，有。"],["張委員宏陸：專門做陸團旅遊的，占我們臺灣出團的、outbound業者的比例有多高？"],["林次長國顯：剛剛報告有404家，大概十分之一左右，占旅行業者十分之一。"],["張委員宏陸：而且這十分之一也應該不是全部都是做陸團的生意吧。"],["林次長國顯：對，50%以上，它還有別的業務。"],["張委員宏陸：對嘛！"],["林次長國顯：對，它也可以做國旅，它也可以做別的。"],["張委員宏陸：甚至它也有可能在臺灣投資餐廳，都有很多可能，對不對？"],["林次長國顯：對。"],["張委員宏陸：所以我們在考量應該是全面性的，對不對？"],["林次長國顯：是。"],["張委員宏陸：好，謝謝次長。","我再請問一下邱主委，主委，我不知道你有沒有看到今天的新聞，美國的驅逐艦芬恩號特別經過臺灣海峽，而且現在剛好是中國的兩會期間，還有金門的事件以及中菲在南海的衝突，它特意提早，以前大概都是月底，我不知道，這個部分主委應該比我清楚，它特意提早來，我個人認為這是美國對中國釋出一個非常明顯的訊號，就是臺灣海峽是國際海域、是屬於自由航行的，這中間也會牽扯到所謂的M503航線，這些種種，我認為美國是故意挑這個時間來，向它的印太夥伴說，保證印太的積極自由跟航行的權利，主委，是不是有這個意思存在？"],["邱主任委員太三：我想我們看到美國不管是太平洋司令也好或是美國軍方也好，多次表達他們都按照國際法的規範在維護國際的航道，我想這已經宣布好幾次了。第二個，中國因為軍事的擴張跟武力的使用，事實上已經造成周邊的國家有高度的警覺，所以大家對於整個海域的安全就集體來做維護的動作，我想這應該是可以理解的。"],["張委員宏陸：應該可以理解啦，所以你的看法跟我是一樣，只是你不方便在這邊說得很直接。","另外，這次在他們的兩會期間，中國刻意把和平統一的「和平」兩字拿掉，這個我不知道主委有沒有注意到？你覺得它代表的意思是什麼？"],["邱主任委員太三：確實，每一次中國的兩會或是黨的大會報告，我們大概都會去做一些相關的研析，不過坦白講，單純這樣子，我們沒辦法馬上去下論斷，我們當然都會再蒐集更多的資訊，特別是相關單位的資訊，來分析他們這樣的用意，到底有沒有什麼樣的用意，因為不能只單看一個字眼，我們會總體來看，它的報告裡面還有沒有提到其他的部分會涉及到這個東西，譬如說它內部的社會問題也好、經濟的問題也好，他們到底怎麼樣處理，這都是有一定程度的連動，所以單純看四個字，恐怕不能只注意字詞的用意而已，而是要整體來看、觀察，我們也會跟相關單位來做研判。如果外界有什麼疑慮，我們在例行記者會也都會接受大家的詢問，來做比較完整的表達。"],["張委員宏陸：其實只是要提醒，很多的枝微末節，其實主委都有注意到了，這樣國人就會比較放心，我們都有注意到。","最後，我還是要說，我們今天這個專題報告，我還是覺得不管怎麼樣，我們一定要對等跟保護國內的業者，我覺得這個應該要大聲跟所有的國人說清楚。不然很多人就根本不知道原因在哪裡，就是好像說為什麼不開放，以前可以，現在不可以，對不對？我覺得很多人並不瞭解，那我覺得我們要大聲地說清楚。"],["邱主任委員太三：是，好。"],["張委員宏陸：好不好？"],["邱主任委員太三：謝謝委員的指教跟建議。"],["張委員宏陸：好，謝謝。"],["主席：好，謝謝張宏陸委員。接下來我們請黃建賓委員質詢。"]],"agenda":{"page_end":76,"meet_id":"委員會-11-1-15-3","speakers":["高金素梅","徐欣瑩","王美惠","吳琪銘","蘇巧慧","牛煦庭","張宏陸","黃建賓","黃捷","許宇甄","李柏毅","張智倫","丁學忠","麥玉珍","鄭天財Sra 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\"text\": \"主委,我不知道你有沒有看到今天的新聞美國的驅逐艦分N號特別經過台灣海峽而且現在剛好是中國的兩會期間然後金門的事件還有中飛在南海的衝突\", \"words\": [{\"word\": \"主\", \"start\": 347.372, \"end\": 347.512, \"score\": 0.857}, {\"word\": \"委\", \"start\": 347.512, \"end\": 347.993, \"score\": 0.957}, {\"word\": \",\"}, {\"word\": \"我\", \"start\": 347.993, \"end\": 348.013, \"score\": 0.002}, {\"word\": \"不\", \"start\": 348.013, \"end\": 348.173, \"score\": 0.878}, {\"word\": \"知\", \"start\": 348.173, \"end\": 348.193, \"score\": 0.0}, {\"word\": \"道\", \"start\": 348.193, \"end\": 348.333, \"score\": 0.856}, {\"word\": \"你\", \"start\": 348.333, \"end\": 348.353, \"score\": 0.001}, {\"word\": \"有\", \"start\": 348.353, \"end\": 348.373, \"score\": 0.0}, {\"word\": \"沒\", \"start\": 348.373, \"end\": 348.473, \"score\": 0.8}, {\"word\": \"有\", \"start\": 348.473, \"end\": 348.674, \"score\": 0.898}, {\"word\": \"看\", \"start\": 348.674, \"end\": 348.954, \"score\": 1.0}, {\"word\": \"到\", \"start\": 348.954, \"end\": 349.415, \"score\": 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\"確實啦,當然我們大概每一次的這個中國的兩會啦或者是他們的這個黨的這個大會的報告呢我們大概都會去做一些相關的研析啦不過因為,坦白講,單純這樣子我們沒有辦法馬上具下論斷我們當然都會再收集更多的資訊特別是相關單位的這個資訊來做他們這樣的一個用意到底有沒有什麼樣的一個用意啦\", \"words\": [{\"word\": \"確\"}, {\"word\": \"實\"}, {\"word\": \"啦\", \"start\": 467.641, \"end\": 468.241, \"score\": 0.893}, {\"word\": \",\"}, {\"word\": \"當\"}, {\"word\": \"然\", \"start\": 468.241, \"end\": 468.441, \"score\": 0.856}, {\"word\": \"我\", \"start\": 468.441, \"end\": 468.801, \"score\": 0.925}, {\"word\": \"們\"}, {\"word\": \"大\", \"start\": 468.801, \"end\": 468.961, \"score\": 0.837}, {\"word\": \"概\", \"start\": 468.961, \"end\": 469.202, \"score\": 0.961}, {\"word\": \"每\", \"start\": 469.202, \"end\": 469.342, \"score\": 0.861}, {\"word\": \"一\", \"start\": 469.342, \"end\": 469.482, \"score\": 0.837}, {\"word\": \"次\", \"start\": 469.482, \"end\": 469.722, \"score\": 0.968}, {\"word\": \"的\", \"start\": 469.722, \"end\": 471.442, \"score\": 0.951}, {\"word\": \"這\"}, {\"word\": \"個\"}, {\"word\": \"中\", \"start\": 471.442, 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{\"word\": \"一\", \"start\": 491.828, \"end\": 492.968, \"score\": 0.896}, {\"word\": \"個\"}, {\"word\": \"用\", \"start\": 492.968, \"end\": 493.188, \"score\": 0.945}, {\"word\": \"意\", \"start\": 493.188, \"end\": 493.528, \"score\": 0.978}, {\"word\": \"到\", \"start\": 493.528, \"end\": 493.688, \"score\": 0.735}, {\"word\": \"底\", \"start\": 493.688, \"end\": 493.829, \"score\": 0.723}, {\"word\": \"有\", \"start\": 493.829, \"end\": 493.969, \"score\": 0.713}, {\"word\": \"沒\", \"start\": 493.969, \"end\": 494.069, \"score\": 0.795}, {\"word\": \"有\", \"start\": 494.069, \"end\": 494.169, \"score\": 0.705}, {\"word\": \"什\", \"start\": 494.169, \"end\": 494.429, \"score\": 0.726}, {\"word\": \"麼\"}, {\"word\": \"樣\"}, {\"word\": \"的\", \"start\": 494.429, \"end\": 494.509, \"score\": 0.966}, {\"word\": \"一\", \"start\": 494.509, \"end\": 494.709, \"score\": 0.834}, {\"word\": \"個\"}, {\"word\": \"用\", \"start\": 494.709, \"end\": 494.949, \"score\": 0.87}, {\"word\": \"意\", 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\"涉\", \"start\": 503.351, \"end\": 503.511, \"score\": 0.684}, {\"word\": \"及\", \"start\": 503.511, \"end\": 503.611, \"score\": 0.65}, {\"word\": \"到\", \"start\": 503.611, \"end\": 504.051, \"score\": 0.802}, {\"word\": \"這\"}, {\"word\": \"個\"}, {\"word\": \"東\"}, {\"word\": \"西\", \"start\": 504.051, \"end\": 504.191, \"score\": 0.777}, {\"word\": \"比\", \"start\": 504.191, \"end\": 504.391, \"score\": 0.615}, {\"word\": \"如\", \"start\": 504.391, \"end\": 504.831, \"score\": 0.832}, {\"word\": \"說\"}, {\"word\": \"他\", \"start\": 504.831, \"end\": 505.231, \"score\": 0.726}, {\"word\": \"內\"}, {\"word\": \"部\", \"start\": 505.231, \"end\": 505.552, \"score\": 0.81}, {\"word\": \"社\", \"start\": 505.552, \"end\": 505.792, \"score\": 0.632}, {\"word\": \"會\"}, {\"word\": \"的\", \"start\": 505.792, \"end\": 506.172, \"score\": 0.703}, {\"word\": \"問\"}, {\"word\": \"題\"}, {\"word\": \"也\", \"start\": 506.172, \"end\": 506.272, \"score\": 0.752}, {\"word\": \"好\", \"start\": 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\"都\", \"start\": 509.733, \"end\": 509.953, \"score\": 0.95}, {\"word\": \"是\", \"start\": 509.953, \"end\": 510.853, \"score\": 0.84}, {\"word\": \"有\", \"start\": 510.853, \"end\": 511.173, \"score\": 0.724}, {\"word\": \"一\", \"start\": 511.173, \"end\": 511.313, \"score\": 0.747}, {\"word\": \"定\", \"start\": 511.313, \"end\": 511.493, \"score\": 0.806}, {\"word\": \"程\", \"start\": 511.493, \"end\": 511.693, \"score\": 0.713}, {\"word\": \"度\", \"start\": 511.693, \"end\": 511.813, \"score\": 0.82}, {\"word\": \"的\", \"start\": 511.813, \"end\": 512.753, \"score\": 0.849}, {\"word\": \"連\"}, {\"word\": \"動\"}, {\"word\": \"所\", \"start\": 512.753, \"end\": 512.873, \"score\": 0.815}, {\"word\": \"以\", \"start\": 512.873, \"end\": 513.394, \"score\": 0.717}, {\"word\": \"單\"}, {\"word\": \"純\"}, {\"word\": \"看\", \"start\": 513.394, \"end\": 513.634, \"score\": 0.765}, {\"word\": \"四\", \"start\": 513.634, \"end\": 513.954, \"score\": 0.642}, {\"word\": \"個\"}, {\"word\": \"字\", \"start\": 513.954, \"end\": 514.394, \"score\": 0.876}, {\"word\": \"恐\", \"start\": 514.394, \"end\": 514.514, \"score\": 0.812}, {\"word\": \"怕\", \"start\": 514.514, \"end\": 514.674, \"score\": 0.51}, {\"word\": \"不\", \"start\": 514.674, \"end\": 514.794, \"score\": 0.96}, {\"word\": \"是\", \"start\": 514.794, \"end\": 514.914, \"score\": 0.795}, {\"word\": \"我\", \"start\": 514.914, \"end\": 515.514, \"score\": 0.898}, {\"word\": \"們\"}, {\"word\": \"只\", \"start\": 515.514, \"end\": 515.614, \"score\": 0.921}, {\"word\": \"在\", \"start\": 515.614, \"end\": 515.794, \"score\": 0.819}, {\"word\": \"注\", \"start\": 515.794, \"end\": 515.934, \"score\": 0.818}, {\"word\": \"意\", \"start\": 515.934, \"end\": 516.834, \"score\": 0.79}, {\"word\": \"這\"}, {\"word\": \"個\"}, {\"word\": \"這\"}, {\"word\": \"個\"}, {\"word\": \"字\", \"start\": 516.834, \"end\": 517.195, \"score\": 0.745}, {\"word\": \"詞\"}, {\"word\": \"的\", \"start\": 517.195, \"end\": 517.735, \"score\": 0.887}, {\"word\": \"用\", \"start\": 517.735, \"end\": 517.895, \"score\": 0.769}, {\"word\": \"意\", \"start\": 517.895, \"end\": 517.955, \"score\": 0.658}, {\"word\": \"而\", \"start\": 517.955, \"end\": 518.295, \"score\": 0.728}, {\"word\": \"是\", \"start\": 518.295, \"end\": 518.715, \"score\": 0.756}, {\"word\": \"說\"}, {\"word\": \"要\", \"start\": 518.715, \"end\": 518.915, \"score\": 0.827}, {\"word\": \"整\", \"start\": 518.915, \"end\": 519.495, \"score\": 0.615}, {\"word\": \"體\"}, {\"word\": \"來\"}, {\"word\": \"看\", \"start\": 519.495, \"end\": 519.915, \"score\": 0.78}, {\"word\": \"觀\"}, {\"word\": \"察\", \"start\": 519.915, \"end\": 520.215, \"score\": 0.792}, {\"word\": \"那\", \"start\": 520.215, \"end\": 520.355, \"score\": 0.865}, {\"word\": \"我\", \"start\": 520.355, \"end\": 520.475, \"score\": 0.692}, {\"word\": \"們\"}, {\"word\": \"也\", \"start\": 520.475, \"end\": 520.595, \"score\": 0.876}, {\"word\": \"會\"}, {\"word\": \"跟\", \"start\": 520.595, \"end\": 520.615, 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\"score\": 0.0}, {\"word\": \"介\", \"start\": 551.024, \"end\": 551.044, \"score\": 0.0}, {\"word\": \"紹\"}, {\"word\": \"好\", \"start\": 578.534, \"end\": 578.998, \"score\": 0.95}, {\"word\": \",\"}, {\"word\": \"謝\"}, {\"word\": \"謝\"}, {\"word\": \"張\"}, {\"word\": \"宏\", \"start\": 578.998, \"end\": 579.382, \"score\": 0.89}, {\"word\": \"陸\"}, {\"word\": \"委\", \"start\": 579.382, \"end\": 579.402, \"score\": 0.0}, {\"word\": \"員\"}], \"language\": \"zh\"}","srt":"1\n00:00:05,140 --> 00:00:08,682\n我請我們陸委會邱主委還有我們交通部林次長張委員好\n\n2\n00:00:28,806 --> 00:00:37,456\n其實一般的國家跟國家在談不管是行權不管是經貿不管是什麼最重要的是不是就是要對等\n\n3\n00:00:38,578 --> 00:01:00,146\n這是基本上國際經貿大家期待的原則啦主委應該不是期待的原則啦應該是普世的原則普世的價值才對吧對啦我說的是一般的國際上嘛對不對所以啊我們在跟中國啊我們要談啊不管我們的旅遊或什麼的\n\n4\n00:01:00,826 --> 00:01:29,008\n其實最主要的還是要對等吧我們不能矮人一傑啊是不是不是只有矮人一傑啦大家利益上總是要有機會來做這樣的一個利益我們先不要講利益啦不管在談什麼一定是這樣啊對不對基本原則一定是這樣對啊這個已經時代不一樣了啊不是天朝自居啊對不對一定是都對等所以在對等的前提之下也要\n\n5\n00:01:31,029 --> 00:01:51,944\n也要保護我們本國的各行各業的產業吧這個是最基本吧我想這個所有政府部門經貿部門包括觀光部門都是採取這樣的一個原則跟態度對嘛我們在跟美國跟全世界各個國家我們不管他談任何經貿什麼的大家都是要對等啊\n\n6\n00:01:52,444 --> 00:01:52,664\n所以回到來了\n\n7\n00:02:20,941 --> 00:02:30,721\n這個能不能夠跟中國這一個我們開放團體課我想請問一下那個次長我手頭上的資料\n\n8\n00:02:54,837 --> 00:03:09,287\n對,等於沒有開放團客,國內相關的旅行、交通、食宿、餐飲、購物都會相關的影響,就等於不會有這個消費對嘛,我說這個金額就是739億對不對?對,以當初的水準是\n\n9\n00:03:12,089 --> 00:03:36,730\n對嘛齁那以現在來講應該更多嘛齁這個什麼都有長的情況所以我覺得我們如果中國不開放他們的團客來我們開放我們的團客去我們一年損失739億次長如果你們做了這個決定會不會有台灣很多的本土的業者餐飲業者、民宿業者等等的會不會上街抗議\n\n10\n00:03:37,971 --> 00:04:02,293\n會不會找你們會不會抗議跟委員報告確實您提的是重點我們在處理觀光業者的時候有出境跟入境那您提的這個是我們一方面要考慮出境業者我們叫歐邦歐邦業者的權益一方面也要考慮國內本土旅遊業者相關的生計所以我們也得考慮說大陸如果不開放的話對本土業者是傷害的\n\n11\n00:04:03,013 --> 00:04:24,737\n對啦,除了對我們的本土業者,這一些我們在本土所有觀光餐飲的這一些接待、入客團體這些是一個傷害之外這也是我們跟對岸要談判的一個籌碼啊,對不對?我們要保護我們的業者,這是一個很合情合理,全世界都同一個標準嘛\n\n12\n00:04:25,037 --> 00:04:49,890\n我們其實是希望兩岸對等開放啦所以從去年8月24號開始就一直希望是釋出這樣的善意以後陸方也能夠對等然後回應要不要開放陸團客來台這個我們都知道嘛這個我們希望對等談話我剛一開始就講了嘛我們也沒有說不開放嘛現在是中國不開放所以卡在這裡嘛重點是不是\n\n13\n00:04:50,470 --> 00:05:00,685\n是那我們為什麼卡在這裡我們要保護我們本土的業者啊要不要對對不對這是考慮的因素重要的因素這應該是很重要的因素之一嘛這要跟大家講嘛來這個\n\n14\n00:05:05,466 --> 00:05:31,379\n陸專門做這個陸團旅遊的啊齁在我們臺灣的齁出團的啊齁澳邦的這個業者在臺灣佔比例有多高?所以剛剛報告404家大概十分之一左右十分之一嘛佔旅行業者十分之一而且這十分之一也應該不是他全部都是做陸自辦事吧他還有別的業務對嘛對不對他也可以做國立他也可以做別的甚至他也有可能也有臺灣也有投資餐廳啊\n\n15\n00:05:35,979 --> 00:05:44,937\n所以我們在考量應該是全面性的啦對不對是好謝謝次長那我再請問一下那個我們邱主委\n\n16\n00:05:47,372 --> 00:06:06,515\n主委,我不知道你有沒有看到今天的新聞美國的驅逐艦分N號特別經過台灣海峽而且現在剛好是中國的兩會期間然後金門的事件還有中飛在南海的衝突\n\n17\n00:06:08,151 --> 00:06:31,749\n他特意提早以前大概都是月底我不知道這主委應該比我清楚特意提早來我個人認為這個是美國對中國釋出一個非常明顯的訊號就是台灣海峽是國際海域是屬於自由航行的這中間也會牽扯到他所謂的M503的這個航線這個這個種種的我認為美國是故意挑這個時間來的\n\n18\n00:06:37,814 --> 00:07:01,130\n向他的印太夥伴來說這個保證印太的積極的自由跟航行的權利我覺得主委是不是有這個意思存在我想我們看到美國不管是太平洋司令也好或者說美國的軍方也好大概都多次的表達他們都按照國際的法的規範在維護國際的這樣的一個航道\n\n19\n00:07:05,493 --> 00:07:27,265\n這我想已經宣布了好幾次了那第二個就是說中國他因為軍事的擴張跟武力的使用事實上已經造成周邊的國家都有高度的警覺了所以也因此大家就是對於整個海域的安全大家就集體的來做這樣的一個維護的動作了那我想這個應該是可以理解的\n\n20\n00:07:28,127 --> 00:07:46,981\n應該可以理解啦所以你的看法跟我是一樣啦只是你不方便在這邊說的很直接啦那另外啦在這一次在他們兩會期間啦中國刻意把和平統一和平兩個字拿掉這個我不知道主委有沒有注意到你就代表的意思是什麼\n\n21\n00:07:47,641 --> 00:08:15,089\n確實啦,當然我們大概每一次的這個中國的兩會啦或者是他們的這個黨的這個大會的報告呢我們大概都會去做一些相關的研析啦不過因為,坦白講,單純這樣子我們沒有辦法馬上具下論斷我們當然都會再收集更多的資訊特別是相關單位的這個資訊來做他們這樣的一個用意到底有沒有什麼樣的一個用意啦\n\n22\n00:08:15,729 --> 00:08:40,896\n不過因為不能只單看一個字眼啦因為主要的原因我們是會總體來看他報告裡面還提到有沒有其他的部分會涉及到這個東西比如說他內部社會的問題也好他經濟的問題也好他們到底怎麼樣處理那這個都是有一定程度的連動所以單純看四個字恐怕不是我們只在注意這個這個字詞的用意而是說要整體來看觀察那我們也會跟相關單位來做這樣研判\n\n23\n00:08:42,896 --> 00:09:05,425\n那我們如果有什麼這個外界有什麼我們大概在例行記者會也都會接受大家的詢問那做比較完整的表達其實只是要提醒就是說很多的滋味小節那如果這樣其實主委都有注意到了這個這樣國人就會比較放心我們都有注意到所以我最後還是要說我們今天這個專題報告我還是覺得\n\n24\n00:09:10,663 --> 00:09:11,044\n謝謝委員的指教和介紹\n\n25\n00:09:38,534 --> 00:09:39,402\n好,謝謝張宏陸委員\n\n","tsv":"start\tend\ttext\n5140\t8682\t我請我們陸委會邱主委還有我們交通部林次長張委員好\n28806\t37456\t其實一般的國家跟國家在談不管是行權不管是經貿不管是什麼最重要的是不是就是要對等\n38578\t60146\t這是基本上國際經貿大家期待的原則啦主委應該不是期待的原則啦應該是普世的原則普世的價值才對吧對啦我說的是一般的國際上嘛對不對所以啊我們在跟中國啊我們要談啊不管我們的旅遊或什麼的\n60826\t89008\t其實最主要的還是要對等吧我們不能矮人一傑啊是不是不是只有矮人一傑啦大家利益上總是要有機會來做這樣的一個利益我們先不要講利益啦不管在談什麼一定是這樣啊對不對基本原則一定是這樣對啊這個已經時代不一樣了啊不是天朝自居啊對不對一定是都對等所以在對等的前提之下也要\n91029\t111944\t也要保護我們本國的各行各業的產業吧這個是最基本吧我想這個所有政府部門經貿部門包括觀光部門都是採取這樣的一個原則跟態度對嘛我們在跟美國跟全世界各個國家我們不管他談任何經貿什麼的大家都是要對等啊\n112444\t112664\t所以回到來了\n140941\t150721\t這個能不能夠跟中國這一個我們開放團體課我想請問一下那個次長我手頭上的資料\n151596\t173916\t對﹖\n174837\t189287\t對,等於沒有開放團客,國內相關的旅行、交通、食宿、餐飲、購物都會相關的影響,就等於不會有這個消費對嘛,我說這個金額就是739億對不對?對,以當初的水準是\n192089\t216730\t對嘛齁那以現在來講應該更多嘛齁這個什麼都有長的情況所以我覺得我們如果中國不開放他們的團客來我們開放我們的團客去我們一年損失739億次長如果你們做了這個決定會不會有台灣很多的本土的業者餐飲業者、民宿業者等等的會不會上街抗議\n217971\t242293\t會不會找你們會不會抗議跟委員報告確實您提的是重點我們在處理觀光業者的時候有出境跟入境那您提的這個是我們一方面要考慮出境業者我們叫歐邦歐邦業者的權益一方面也要考慮國內本土旅遊業者相關的生計所以我們也得考慮說大陸如果不開放的話對本土業者是傷害的\n243013\t264737\t對啦,除了對我們的本土業者,這一些我們在本土所有觀光餐飲的這一些接待、入客團體這些是一個傷害之外這也是我們跟對岸要談判的一個籌碼啊,對不對?我們要保護我們的業者,這是一個很合情合理,全世界都同一個標準嘛\n265037\t289890\t我們其實是希望兩岸對等開放啦所以從去年8月24號開始就一直希望是釋出這樣的善意以後陸方也能夠對等然後回應要不要開放陸團客來台這個我們都知道嘛這個我們希望對等談話我剛一開始就講了嘛我們也沒有說不開放嘛現在是中國不開放所以卡在這裡嘛重點是不是\n290470\t300685\t是那我們為什麼卡在這裡我們要保護我們本土的業者啊要不要對對不對這是考慮的因素重要的因素這應該是很重要的因素之一嘛這要跟大家講嘛來這個\n305466\t331379\t陸專門做這個陸團旅遊的啊齁在我們臺灣的齁出團的啊齁澳邦的這個業者在臺灣佔比例有多高?所以剛剛報告404家大概十分之一左右十分之一嘛佔旅行業者十分之一而且這十分之一也應該不是他全部都是做陸自辦事吧他還有別的業務對嘛對不對他也可以做國立他也可以做別的甚至他也有可能也有臺灣也有投資餐廳啊\n335979\t344937\t所以我們在考量應該是全面性的啦對不對是好謝謝次長那我再請問一下那個我們邱主委\n347372\t366515\t主委,我不知道你有沒有看到今天的新聞美國的驅逐艦分N號特別經過台灣海峽而且現在剛好是中國的兩會期間然後金門的事件還有中飛在南海的衝突\n368151\t391749\t他特意提早以前大概都是月底我不知道這主委應該比我清楚特意提早來我個人認為這個是美國對中國釋出一個非常明顯的訊號就是台灣海峽是國際海域是屬於自由航行的這中間也會牽扯到他所謂的M503的這個航線這個這個種種的我認為美國是故意挑這個時間來的\n397814\t421130\t向他的印太夥伴來說這個保證印太的積極的自由跟航行的權利我覺得主委是不是有這個意思存在我想我們看到美國不管是太平洋司令也好或者說美國的軍方也好大概都多次的表達他們都按照國際的法的規範在維護國際的這樣的一個航道\n425493\t447265\t這我想已經宣布了好幾次了那第二個就是說中國他因為軍事的擴張跟武力的使用事實上已經造成周邊的國家都有高度的警覺了所以也因此大家就是對於整個海域的安全大家就集體的來做這樣的一個維護的動作了那我想這個應該是可以理解的\n448127\t466981\t應該可以理解啦所以你的看法跟我是一樣啦只是你不方便在這邊說的很直接啦那另外啦在這一次在他們兩會期間啦中國刻意把和平統一和平兩個字拿掉這個我不知道主委有沒有注意到你就代表的意思是什麼\n467641\t495089\t確實啦,當然我們大概每一次的這個中國的兩會啦或者是他們的這個黨的這個大會的報告呢我們大概都會去做一些相關的研析啦不過因為,坦白講,單純這樣子我們沒有辦法馬上具下論斷我們當然都會再收集更多的資訊特別是相關單位的這個資訊來做他們這樣的一個用意到底有沒有什麼樣的一個用意啦\n495729\t520896\t不過因為不能只單看一個字眼啦因為主要的原因我們是會總體來看他報告裡面還提到有沒有其他的部分會涉及到這個東西比如說他內部社會的問題也好他經濟的問題也好他們到底怎麼樣處理那這個都是有一定程度的連動所以單純看四個字恐怕不是我們只在注意這個這個字詞的用意而是說要整體來看觀察那我們也會跟相關單位來做這樣研判\n522896\t545425\t那我們如果有什麼這個外界有什麼我們大概在例行記者會也都會接受大家的詢問那做比較完整的表達其實只是要提醒就是說很多的滋味小節那如果這樣其實主委都有注意到了這個這樣國人就會比較放心我們都有注意到所以我最後還是要說我們今天這個專題報告我還是覺得\n550663\t551044\t謝謝委員的指教和介紹\n578534\t579402\t好,謝謝張宏陸委員\n","txt":"我請我們陸委會邱主委還有我們交通部林次長張委員好\n其實一般的國家跟國家在談不管是行權不管是經貿不管是什麼最重要的是不是就是要對等\n這是基本上國際經貿大家期待的原則啦主委應該不是期待的原則啦應該是普世的原則普世的價值才對吧對啦我說的是一般的國際上嘛對不對所以啊我們在跟中國啊我們要談啊不管我們的旅遊或什麼的\n其實最主要的還是要對等吧我們不能矮人一傑啊是不是不是只有矮人一傑啦大家利益上總是要有機會來做這樣的一個利益我們先不要講利益啦不管在談什麼一定是這樣啊對不對基本原則一定是這樣對啊這個已經時代不一樣了啊不是天朝自居啊對不對一定是都對等所以在對等的前提之下也要\n也要保護我們本國的各行各業的產業吧這個是最基本吧我想這個所有政府部門經貿部門包括觀光部門都是採取這樣的一個原則跟態度對嘛我們在跟美國跟全世界各個國家我們不管他談任何經貿什麼的大家都是要對等啊\n所以回到來了\n這個能不能夠跟中國這一個我們開放團體課我想請問一下那個次長我手頭上的資料\n對﹖\n對,等於沒有開放團客,國內相關的旅行、交通、食宿、餐飲、購物都會相關的影響,就等於不會有這個消費對嘛,我說這個金額就是739億對不對?對,以當初的水準是\n對嘛齁那以現在來講應該更多嘛齁這個什麼都有長的情況所以我覺得我們如果中國不開放他們的團客來我們開放我們的團客去我們一年損失739億次長如果你們做了這個決定會不會有台灣很多的本土的業者餐飲業者、民宿業者等等的會不會上街抗議\n會不會找你們會不會抗議跟委員報告確實您提的是重點我們在處理觀光業者的時候有出境跟入境那您提的這個是我們一方面要考慮出境業者我們叫歐邦歐邦業者的權益一方面也要考慮國內本土旅遊業者相關的生計所以我們也得考慮說大陸如果不開放的話對本土業者是傷害的\n對啦,除了對我們的本土業者,這一些我們在本土所有觀光餐飲的這一些接待、入客團體這些是一個傷害之外這也是我們跟對岸要談判的一個籌碼啊,對不對?我們要保護我們的業者,這是一個很合情合理,全世界都同一個標準嘛\n我們其實是希望兩岸對等開放啦所以從去年8月24號開始就一直希望是釋出這樣的善意以後陸方也能夠對等然後回應要不要開放陸團客來台這個我們都知道嘛這個我們希望對等談話我剛一開始就講了嘛我們也沒有說不開放嘛現在是中國不開放所以卡在這裡嘛重點是不是\n是那我們為什麼卡在這裡我們要保護我們本土的業者啊要不要對對不對這是考慮的因素重要的因素這應該是很重要的因素之一嘛這要跟大家講嘛來這個\n陸專門做這個陸團旅遊的啊齁在我們臺灣的齁出團的啊齁澳邦的這個業者在臺灣佔比例有多高?所以剛剛報告404家大概十分之一左右十分之一嘛佔旅行業者十分之一而且這十分之一也應該不是他全部都是做陸自辦事吧他還有別的業務對嘛對不對他也可以做國立他也可以做別的甚至他也有可能也有臺灣也有投資餐廳啊\n所以我們在考量應該是全面性的啦對不對是好謝謝次長那我再請問一下那個我們邱主委\n主委,我不知道你有沒有看到今天的新聞美國的驅逐艦分N號特別經過台灣海峽而且現在剛好是中國的兩會期間然後金門的事件還有中飛在南海的衝突\n他特意提早以前大概都是月底我不知道這主委應該比我清楚特意提早來我個人認為這個是美國對中國釋出一個非常明顯的訊號就是台灣海峽是國際海域是屬於自由航行的這中間也會牽扯到他所謂的M503的這個航線這個這個種種的我認為美國是故意挑這個時間來的\n向他的印太夥伴來說這個保證印太的積極的自由跟航行的權利我覺得主委是不是有這個意思存在我想我們看到美國不管是太平洋司令也好或者說美國的軍方也好大概都多次的表達他們都按照國際的法的規範在維護國際的這樣的一個航道\n這我想已經宣布了好幾次了那第二個就是說中國他因為軍事的擴張跟武力的使用事實上已經造成周邊的國家都有高度的警覺了所以也因此大家就是對於整個海域的安全大家就集體的來做這樣的一個維護的動作了那我想這個應該是可以理解的\n應該可以理解啦所以你的看法跟我是一樣啦只是你不方便在這邊說的很直接啦那另外啦在這一次在他們兩會期間啦中國刻意把和平統一和平兩個字拿掉這個我不知道主委有沒有注意到你就代表的意思是什麼\n確實啦,當然我們大概每一次的這個中國的兩會啦或者是他們的這個黨的這個大會的報告呢我們大概都會去做一些相關的研析啦不過因為,坦白講,單純這樣子我們沒有辦法馬上具下論斷我們當然都會再收集更多的資訊特別是相關單位的這個資訊來做他們這樣的一個用意到底有沒有什麼樣的一個用意啦\n不過因為不能只單看一個字眼啦因為主要的原因我們是會總體來看他報告裡面還提到有沒有其他的部分會涉及到這個東西比如說他內部社會的問題也好他經濟的問題也好他們到底怎麼樣處理那這個都是有一定程度的連動所以單純看四個字恐怕不是我們只在注意這個這個字詞的用意而是說要整體來看觀察那我們也會跟相關單位來做這樣研判\n那我們如果有什麼這個外界有什麼我們大概在例行記者會也都會接受大家的詢問那做比較完整的表達其實只是要提醒就是說很多的滋味小節那如果這樣其實主委都有注意到了這個這樣國人就會比較放心我們都有注意到所以我最後還是要說我們今天這個專題報告我還是覺得\n謝謝委員的指教和介紹\n好,謝謝張宏陸委員\n","vtt":"WEBVTT\n\n00:05.140 --> 00:08.682\n我請我們陸委會邱主委還有我們交通部林次長張委員好\n\n00:28.806 --> 00:37.456\n其實一般的國家跟國家在談不管是行權不管是經貿不管是什麼最重要的是不是就是要對等\n\n00:38.578 --> 01:00.146\n這是基本上國際經貿大家期待的原則啦主委應該不是期待的原則啦應該是普世的原則普世的價值才對吧對啦我說的是一般的國際上嘛對不對所以啊我們在跟中國啊我們要談啊不管我們的旅遊或什麼的\n\n01:00.826 --> 01:29.008\n其實最主要的還是要對等吧我們不能矮人一傑啊是不是不是只有矮人一傑啦大家利益上總是要有機會來做這樣的一個利益我們先不要講利益啦不管在談什麼一定是這樣啊對不對基本原則一定是這樣對啊這個已經時代不一樣了啊不是天朝自居啊對不對一定是都對等所以在對等的前提之下也要\n\n01:31.029 --> 01:51.944\n也要保護我們本國的各行各業的產業吧這個是最基本吧我想這個所有政府部門經貿部門包括觀光部門都是採取這樣的一個原則跟態度對嘛我們在跟美國跟全世界各個國家我們不管他談任何經貿什麼的大家都是要對等啊\n\n01:52.444 --> 01:52.664\n所以回到來了\n\n02:20.941 --> 02:30.721\n這個能不能夠跟中國這一個我們開放團體課我想請問一下那個次長我手頭上的資料\n\n02:54.837 --> 03:09.287\n對,等於沒有開放團客,國內相關的旅行、交通、食宿、餐飲、購物都會相關的影響,就等於不會有這個消費對嘛,我說這個金額就是739億對不對?對,以當初的水準是\n\n03:12.089 --> 03:36.730\n對嘛齁那以現在來講應該更多嘛齁這個什麼都有長的情況所以我覺得我們如果中國不開放他們的團客來我們開放我們的團客去我們一年損失739億次長如果你們做了這個決定會不會有台灣很多的本土的業者餐飲業者、民宿業者等等的會不會上街抗議\n\n03:37.971 --> 04:02.293\n會不會找你們會不會抗議跟委員報告確實您提的是重點我們在處理觀光業者的時候有出境跟入境那您提的這個是我們一方面要考慮出境業者我們叫歐邦歐邦業者的權益一方面也要考慮國內本土旅遊業者相關的生計所以我們也得考慮說大陸如果不開放的話對本土業者是傷害的\n\n04:03.013 --> 04:24.737\n對啦,除了對我們的本土業者,這一些我們在本土所有觀光餐飲的這一些接待、入客團體這些是一個傷害之外這也是我們跟對岸要談判的一個籌碼啊,對不對?我們要保護我們的業者,這是一個很合情合理,全世界都同一個標準嘛\n\n04:25.037 --> 04:49.890\n我們其實是希望兩岸對等開放啦所以從去年8月24號開始就一直希望是釋出這樣的善意以後陸方也能夠對等然後回應要不要開放陸團客來台這個我們都知道嘛這個我們希望對等談話我剛一開始就講了嘛我們也沒有說不開放嘛現在是中國不開放所以卡在這裡嘛重點是不是\n\n04:50.470 --> 05:00.685\n是那我們為什麼卡在這裡我們要保護我們本土的業者啊要不要對對不對這是考慮的因素重要的因素這應該是很重要的因素之一嘛這要跟大家講嘛來這個\n\n05:05.466 --> 05:31.379\n陸專門做這個陸團旅遊的啊齁在我們臺灣的齁出團的啊齁澳邦的這個業者在臺灣佔比例有多高?所以剛剛報告404家大概十分之一左右十分之一嘛佔旅行業者十分之一而且這十分之一也應該不是他全部都是做陸自辦事吧他還有別的業務對嘛對不對他也可以做國立他也可以做別的甚至他也有可能也有臺灣也有投資餐廳啊\n\n05:35.979 --> 05:44.937\n所以我們在考量應該是全面性的啦對不對是好謝謝次長那我再請問一下那個我們邱主委\n\n05:47.372 --> 06:06.515\n主委,我不知道你有沒有看到今天的新聞美國的驅逐艦分N號特別經過台灣海峽而且現在剛好是中國的兩會期間然後金門的事件還有中飛在南海的衝突\n\n06:08.151 --> 06:31.749\n他特意提早以前大概都是月底我不知道這主委應該比我清楚特意提早來我個人認為這個是美國對中國釋出一個非常明顯的訊號就是台灣海峽是國際海域是屬於自由航行的這中間也會牽扯到他所謂的M503的這個航線這個這個種種的我認為美國是故意挑這個時間來的\n\n06:37.814 --> 07:01.130\n向他的印太夥伴來說這個保證印太的積極的自由跟航行的權利我覺得主委是不是有這個意思存在我想我們看到美國不管是太平洋司令也好或者說美國的軍方也好大概都多次的表達他們都按照國際的法的規範在維護國際的這樣的一個航道\n\n07:05.493 --> 07:27.265\n這我想已經宣布了好幾次了那第二個就是說中國他因為軍事的擴張跟武力的使用事實上已經造成周邊的國家都有高度的警覺了所以也因此大家就是對於整個海域的安全大家就集體的來做這樣的一個維護的動作了那我想這個應該是可以理解的\n\n07:28.127 --> 07:46.981\n應該可以理解啦所以你的看法跟我是一樣啦只是你不方便在這邊說的很直接啦那另外啦在這一次在他們兩會期間啦中國刻意把和平統一和平兩個字拿掉這個我不知道主委有沒有注意到你就代表的意思是什麼\n\n07:47.641 --> 08:15.089\n確實啦,當然我們大概每一次的這個中國的兩會啦或者是他們的這個黨的這個大會的報告呢我們大概都會去做一些相關的研析啦不過因為,坦白講,單純這樣子我們沒有辦法馬上具下論斷我們當然都會再收集更多的資訊特別是相關單位的這個資訊來做他們這樣的一個用意到底有沒有什麼樣的一個用意啦\n\n08:15.729 --> 08:40.896\n不過因為不能只單看一個字眼啦因為主要的原因我們是會總體來看他報告裡面還提到有沒有其他的部分會涉及到這個東西比如說他內部社會的問題也好他經濟的問題也好他們到底怎麼樣處理那這個都是有一定程度的連動所以單純看四個字恐怕不是我們只在注意這個這個字詞的用意而是說要整體來看觀察那我們也會跟相關單位來做這樣研判\n\n08:42.896 --> 09:05.425\n那我們如果有什麼這個外界有什麼我們大概在例行記者會也都會接受大家的詢問那做比較完整的表達其實只是要提醒就是說很多的滋味小節那如果這樣其實主委都有注意到了這個這樣國人就會比較放心我們都有注意到所以我最後還是要說我們今天這個專題報告我還是覺得\n\n09:10.663 --> 09:11.044\n謝謝委員的指教和介紹\n\n09:38.534 --> 09:39.402\n好,謝謝張宏陸委員\n\n","segments":[{"start":5.14,"end":8.682,"text":"我請我們陸委會邱主委還有我們交通部林次長張委員好"},{"start":28.806,"end":37.456,"text":"其實一般的國家跟國家在談不管是行權不管是經貿不管是什麼最重要的是不是就是要對等"},{"start":38.578,"end":60.146,"text":"這是基本上國際經貿大家期待的原則啦主委應該不是期待的原則啦應該是普世的原則普世的價值才對吧對啦我說的是一般的國際上嘛對不對所以啊我們在跟中國啊我們要談啊不管我們的旅遊或什麼的"},{"start":60.826,"end":89.008,"text":"其實最主要的還是要對等吧我們不能矮人一傑啊是不是不是只有矮人一傑啦大家利益上總是要有機會來做這樣的一個利益我們先不要講利益啦不管在談什麼一定是這樣啊對不對基本原則一定是這樣對啊這個已經時代不一樣了啊不是天朝自居啊對不對一定是都對等所以在對等的前提之下也要"},{"start":91.029,"end":111.944,"text":"也要保護我們本國的各行各業的產業吧這個是最基本吧我想這個所有政府部門經貿部門包括觀光部門都是採取這樣的一個原則跟態度對嘛我們在跟美國跟全世界各個國家我們不管他談任何經貿什麼的大家都是要對等啊"},{"start":112.444,"end":112.664,"text":"所以回到來了"},{"start":140.941,"end":150.721,"text":"這個能不能夠跟中國這一個我們開放團體課我想請問一下那個次長我手頭上的資料"},{"start":151.596,"end":173.916,"text":"對﹖"},{"start":174.837,"end":189.287,"text":"對,等於沒有開放團客,國內相關的旅行、交通、食宿、餐飲、購物都會相關的影響,就等於不會有這個消費對嘛,我說這個金額就是739億對不對?對,以當初的水準是"},{"start":192.089,"end":216.73,"text":"對嘛齁那以現在來講應該更多嘛齁這個什麼都有長的情況所以我覺得我們如果中國不開放他們的團客來我們開放我們的團客去我們一年損失739億次長如果你們做了這個決定會不會有台灣很多的本土的業者餐飲業者、民宿業者等等的會不會上街抗議"},{"start":217.971,"end":242.293,"text":"會不會找你們會不會抗議跟委員報告確實您提的是重點我們在處理觀光業者的時候有出境跟入境那您提的這個是我們一方面要考慮出境業者我們叫歐邦歐邦業者的權益一方面也要考慮國內本土旅遊業者相關的生計所以我們也得考慮說大陸如果不開放的話對本土業者是傷害的"},{"start":243.013,"end":264.737,"text":"對啦,除了對我們的本土業者,這一些我們在本土所有觀光餐飲的這一些接待、入客團體這些是一個傷害之外這也是我們跟對岸要談判的一個籌碼啊,對不對?我們要保護我們的業者,這是一個很合情合理,全世界都同一個標準嘛"},{"start":265.037,"end":289.89,"text":"我們其實是希望兩岸對等開放啦所以從去年8月24號開始就一直希望是釋出這樣的善意以後陸方也能夠對等然後回應要不要開放陸團客來台這個我們都知道嘛這個我們希望對等談話我剛一開始就講了嘛我們也沒有說不開放嘛現在是中國不開放所以卡在這裡嘛重點是不是"},{"start":290.47,"end":300.685,"text":"是那我們為什麼卡在這裡我們要保護我們本土的業者啊要不要對對不對這是考慮的因素重要的因素這應該是很重要的因素之一嘛這要跟大家講嘛來這個"},{"start":305.466,"end":331.379,"text":"陸專門做這個陸團旅遊的啊齁在我們臺灣的齁出團的啊齁澳邦的這個業者在臺灣佔比例有多高?所以剛剛報告404家大概十分之一左右十分之一嘛佔旅行業者十分之一而且這十分之一也應該不是他全部都是做陸自辦事吧他還有別的業務對嘛對不對他也可以做國立他也可以做別的甚至他也有可能也有臺灣也有投資餐廳啊"},{"start":335.979,"end":344.937,"text":"所以我們在考量應該是全面性的啦對不對是好謝謝次長那我再請問一下那個我們邱主委"},{"start":347.372,"end":366.515,"text":"主委,我不知道你有沒有看到今天的新聞美國的驅逐艦分N號特別經過台灣海峽而且現在剛好是中國的兩會期間然後金門的事件還有中飛在南海的衝突"},{"start":368.151,"end":391.749,"text":"他特意提早以前大概都是月底我不知道這主委應該比我清楚特意提早來我個人認為這個是美國對中國釋出一個非常明顯的訊號就是台灣海峽是國際海域是屬於自由航行的這中間也會牽扯到他所謂的M503的這個航線這個這個種種的我認為美國是故意挑這個時間來的"},{"start":397.814,"end":421.13,"text":"向他的印太夥伴來說這個保證印太的積極的自由跟航行的權利我覺得主委是不是有這個意思存在我想我們看到美國不管是太平洋司令也好或者說美國的軍方也好大概都多次的表達他們都按照國際的法的規範在維護國際的這樣的一個航道"},{"start":425.493,"end":447.265,"text":"這我想已經宣布了好幾次了那第二個就是說中國他因為軍事的擴張跟武力的使用事實上已經造成周邊的國家都有高度的警覺了所以也因此大家就是對於整個海域的安全大家就集體的來做這樣的一個維護的動作了那我想這個應該是可以理解的"},{"start":448.127,"end":466.981,"text":"應該可以理解啦所以你的看法跟我是一樣啦只是你不方便在這邊說的很直接啦那另外啦在這一次在他們兩會期間啦中國刻意把和平統一和平兩個字拿掉這個我不知道主委有沒有注意到你就代表的意思是什麼"},{"start":467.641,"end":495.089,"text":"確實啦,當然我們大概每一次的這個中國的兩會啦或者是他們的這個黨的這個大會的報告呢我們大概都會去做一些相關的研析啦不過因為,坦白講,單純這樣子我們沒有辦法馬上具下論斷我們當然都會再收集更多的資訊特別是相關單位的這個資訊來做他們這樣的一個用意到底有沒有什麼樣的一個用意啦"},{"start":495.729,"end":520.896,"text":"不過因為不能只單看一個字眼啦因為主要的原因我們是會總體來看他報告裡面還提到有沒有其他的部分會涉及到這個東西比如說他內部社會的問題也好他經濟的問題也好他們到底怎麼樣處理那這個都是有一定程度的連動所以單純看四個字恐怕不是我們只在注意這個這個字詞的用意而是說要整體來看觀察那我們也會跟相關單位來做這樣研判"},{"start":522.896,"end":545.425,"text":"那我們如果有什麼這個外界有什麼我們大概在例行記者會也都會接受大家的詢問那做比較完整的表達其實只是要提醒就是說很多的滋味小節那如果這樣其實主委都有注意到了這個這樣國人就會比較放心我們都有注意到所以我最後還是要說我們今天這個專題報告我還是覺得"},{"start":550.663,"end":551.044,"text":"謝謝委員的指教和介紹"},{"start":578.534,"end":579.402,"text":"好,謝謝張宏陸委員"}]}}}}