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11:29:20","影片長度":"00:07:19","會議時間":"2024-03-06T09:00:00+08:00","會議名稱":"立法院第11屆第1會期經濟委員會第2次全體委員會議（事由：邀請國家發展委員會主任委員列席報告業務概況，並備質詢。【3月4日、3月6日及7日三天一次會】）","meet":{"tmpMeeting":null,"title":"第11屆第1會期經濟委員會第2次全體委員會議","term":11,"type":"委員會","sessionPeriod":1,"sessionTimes":2,"committees":[19],"id":"委員會-11-1-19-2"},"date":"2024-03-06","duration":439,"end_time":"2024-03-06T11:29:20+08:00","start_time":"2024-03-06T11:22:01+08:00","features":["ai-transcript","gazette"],"type":"Clip","gazette":{"lineno":947,"blocks":[["莊委員瑞雄：（11時22分）謝謝主席，有請國發會龔主委。"],["主席：好，我們請龔主委。"],["莊委員瑞雄：主委好。"],["龔主任委員明鑫：莊委員好。"],["莊委員瑞雄：沒有在經濟委員會，所以比較少問到你，常常有一些少子化的問題就到院會再問，我記得上一次問是去年9月，針對少子化的現象提出質詢，本席想再次向你請教。1950年的時代，臺灣恐怕沒有想到會有求子不得的窘境，因為那個時候臺灣的婦女平均一個人生7胎，1950年的時候生育率名列世界前茅。到了1983年左右，我們的生育率就低於人口維持替代率的2.1，原因是什麼呢？大家其實非常清楚，過去在國民黨時代推行了一個政策，都是降低人口成長率、適量生育等等。同一個時間裡面，其實你可以看到那個時候德國、日本早都已經開始注意到少子化的威脅，並開始相關的對策。本席要指出，臺灣的少子化嚴峻或許是因為我們意識的太晚，差不多到了2010年左右才驚覺可能是一個國安問題，2018年才由國發會統籌各部會制定對策綱領，並協調各個部會一起努力。但是就算你意識到並展開行動，你去看日本2023年的新生兒人數，是75萬8,631人，還是比2022年減少了5.1%，連續8年，日本創下統計以來的最低紀錄。韓國過去為了解決少子化問題投入的資源可怕，是6.6兆新臺幣，就是280兆韓元，但是到了2023年，特殊出生率還是跌到0.72，同樣連續8年還是創新低。日本如此，韓國如此，少子化可以說是已開發國家必然面對的一個難題，甚至本席都還認為這個很難根本處理。內政部日前公布國安危機少子化浪潮的一個報告，其中有提到日本總生育率在1980年代是亞洲主要國家裡面的最後一名，但是到了2005年開始攀升到首位，可見我們的政策目標首先應該放緩少子化的現象，先達到放緩，然後再試著根除少子化的現象。這麼多經費的挹注可能大家也要重新思考，其實它不是一種社福，政府花錢是一種投資，是投資未來。","人口的問題嚴峻而且涉及的層面非常廣大，我也知道這個不是單一部會就可以處理，必須大家共同努力，比如說國發會、勞動部、內政部、經濟部、衛福部、交通部甚至財政部，有相關部會可以著力的地方。我記得民進黨政府從2016年開始，各部會提出了非常多政策跟修法，像是放寬育嬰留職停薪等條件、0到6歲國家一起養、提升公托及準公托數量等，營造一個友善養兒、育兒環境的政策，相關預算也大幅增加。所以我要請教主委，現在網路上講到少子化就說，政府只設一個少子化辦公室，只有這一招而已，這樣你服氣嗎？"],["龔主任委員明鑫：報告委員，我們還是……"],["莊委員瑞雄：而且這還是衛福部成立的。"],["龔主任委員明鑫：現在行政院的林政務委員有少子化跨部會對策的一個平臺，在討論這樣的事情，這是為什麼各部會都有相關的動作，為什麼預算會從過去的一百多億，現在已經超過1,000億，協助生跟養的環境。"],["莊委員瑞雄：那當然是一種投資，但是我要說的是，我們2018年制定對策計畫以後，現在也滿5年了，除了110年10月份有計畫調整規劃以外，是不是該有一個總檢討？而且當年那個對策計畫是107到113年，等於到今年而已，也期滿了，那你的下一步呢？我們的……"],["龔主任委員明鑫：我剛才特別提到，林政委已經在處理這件事情。"],["莊委員瑞雄：在處理了。其實這個真的是對未來的投資。本席再舉兩個例子，我在內政委員會也分別針對少子化的問題，向原民會跟客委會提出詢問，自當年少子化對策綱領制定以後，兩個跟族群相關的部會是不是有配合提出任何對策？答案是沒有，所以我現在很煩惱政策跟不上。比如說，去年同樣在內委會，我們在修住宅法的時候，修法同時放寬住宅協助措施中有關經濟跟社會弱勢資格，從原本育有三名以上未成年子女，現在調整成兩名，對不對？但是當時本席就認為真的要兩名嗎？難道不要讓他有小孩就可以了，因為現在生一個就很困難了，你還規定要兩名？最後還是維持你們的版本，我當然知道因為數量的問題要訂定一定的資格，所以我要請教主委最後一個問題，國發會現在享有當年統籌各部會制定少子化對策之名，但對於各部會配合少子化的協調、溝通跟管道，我都打上一個問號，是不是國發會可以從上位的角度去思考全盤人口政策，怎麼樣去調整跟精進，甚至於更積極跟努力？成效未必會看得到，但是發現那個方向是對的，學日本大膽花下去，學韓國大膽花下去，這個都不是社福支出，這個是對我們自己國家的一個投資。主委，你的看法如何？請簡單說明。"],["龔主任委員明鑫：對，我們也會支持，委員的想法、意見中有好的一些建議，我們也會透過林政委的平臺來做建議，您剛才提到那個總檢討現在在檢討當中。"],["莊委員瑞雄：是。"],["龔主任委員明鑫：我們也希望各部會都可以儘量來參與這樣的事情。"],["莊委員瑞雄：不然我跟你保證，再連續40年，立法院還是會討論這個問題啦！我看日本討論了40年，到現在人口還是一直在下降。"],["龔主任委員明鑫：所以為什麼我們現在要有比較開放性的人才跟移民政策來稍微補足那一塊。"],["莊委員瑞雄：好，主委加油。"],["龔主任委員明鑫：謝謝。"],["主席：謝謝。接下來我們請賴士葆委員詢答。"]],"agenda":{"page_end":186,"meet_id":"委員會-11-1-19-2","speakers":["楊瓊瓔","邱議瑩","陳亭妃","林岱樺","張啓楷","謝衣鳯","鄭天財Sra 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2018年才由我們國會統籌各部會來制定對策綱領並協調各個部會一起來努力但是就算說你去意識到並展開行動你去看日本2023年的新生兒人數是758,631人他比2022年還是減少了5.1%連續8年日本也創下統計以來最低的一個紀錄\", \"words\": [{\"word\": \"2\"}, {\"word\": \"0\"}, {\"word\": \"1\"}, {\"word\": \"8\"}, {\"word\": \"2\"}, {\"word\": \"0\"}, {\"word\": \"1\"}, {\"word\": \"8\"}, {\"word\": \"年\", \"start\": 92.786, \"end\": 93.207, \"score\": 0.83}, {\"word\": \"才\", \"start\": 93.207, \"end\": 93.327, \"score\": 0.882}, {\"word\": \"由\", \"start\": 93.327, \"end\": 93.447, \"score\": 0.834}, {\"word\": \"我\", \"start\": 93.447, \"end\": 94.507, \"score\": 0.836}, {\"word\": \"們\"}, {\"word\": \"國\"}, {\"word\": \"會\"}, {\"word\": \"統\"}, {\"word\": \"籌\"}, {\"word\": \"各\", \"start\": 94.507, \"end\": 94.667, \"score\": 0.736}, {\"word\": \"部\", \"start\": 94.667, \"end\": 95.007, \"score\": 0.765}, {\"word\": \"會\"}, {\"word\": \"來\"}, {\"word\": \"制\", \"start\": 95.007, \"end\": 95.187, \"score\": 0.638}, {\"word\": \"定\", \"start\": 95.187, \"end\": 95.847, \"score\": 0.818}, 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00:00:09,267\n謝謝主席。有請我們國發會、我們公主會。好,我們請公主會。主委好。主委好。這個啊,現在沒在經濟,所以就比較照顧自己的問題。常常有一些少子化的問題。\n\n2\n00:00:24,589 --> 00:00:46,827\n願會再問我記得我去年上一次問的時候是去年9月針對傻子話的一個現象提出質詢那本席想再次來向你做一個請教就是說從1950年時代在我們台灣恐怕當初也都沒有去想到說會有求子不得將的一個窘境那個時候台灣的婦女平均一人生7胎\n\n3\n00:00:48,069 --> 00:01:08,817\n一經我看你的孫生育率這個世界名列世界前茅到了1983年左右我們的生育率就低於人口維持替代率的2.1原因是什麼呢大家其實非常清楚了過去在國民黨時代的時候推行的一個政策都是維持一個降低人口的成長率適量的一個生育等等\n\n4\n00:01:09,497 --> 00:01:29,285\n那同一個時間裡面其實當時你是可以看到那個是德國、日本都早都已經開始注意到少子化的一個威脅並開始相關的一個對策那本期要指出來就是說台灣的一個少子化嚴峻或許因為我們意識的太晚我們差不多到了2010年左右才驚覺到可能是一個國安的一個問題而\n\n5\n00:01:32,786 --> 00:01:48,411\n20182018年才由我們國會統籌各部會來制定對策綱領並協調各個部會一起來努力但是就算說你去意識到並展開行動你去看日本2023年的新生兒人數是758,631人他比2022年還是減少了5.1%連續8年日本也創下統計以來最低的一個紀錄\n\n6\n00:01:59,454 --> 00:02:13,759\n韓國呢他過去為了解決少子化的一個問題啊他投入這個資源喔可怕6.6兆的新台幣那就是說280兆的一個韓元到了2023年這個特殊的一個出生率啊這個還是啊跌到0.72同樣\n\n7\n00:02:16,240 --> 00:02:41,687\n連續8年還是創限低日本如此韓國如此那少子化可以說是這已開發國家裡面必然面對的一個難題甚至本席都還認為說你這個你很難去根本去做處理那內政部日前公布了一個國安危機少子化浪潮的一個報告其中有提到了日本總生育率在1980年代是亞洲主要國家裡面的最後一名但是到了2005年開始\n\n8\n00:02:43,891 --> 00:02:59,165\n注意一攀升到首位可見我們的政策目標首先應該是說放緩少子化的一個現象先達到放緩然後再試著去根除少子化的一個現象那這麼多的一個經費的一個挹注可能大家也要去重新去思考這個其實它不是一種攝服\n\n9\n00:03:07,105 --> 00:03:27,484\n建物集開類是一種投資是一種投資未來人口的一個問題這個嚴峻而且涉及的層面非常廣大我也知道說這個不是單一個部會就可以去處理必須要大家共同你像比如說國發會、勞動部、內政部、經濟部、衛福部、高通部、省際財政部相關部會可以著力的一個地方\n\n10\n00:03:28,425 --> 00:03:53,245\n我記得民進黨政府201616年當然開始各部會也提出了非常多的政策跟修法像是放寬、育嬰、留職、停薪等條件0到6歲國家一起養提升公托準公托數量等營造一個友善養兒的一個育兒的一個環境的一個政策相關預算也大幅增加所以我要請教主委就是說現在網路上都在說現在在說的嫂子話就說我們的政府只創一個嫂子話辦公室只這幾年這樣你感到福氣?\n\n11\n00:04:04,425 --> 00:04:23,152\n現在是有一個林鄭委員就是行政院林鄭委員他在有一個對策就是少子化的一個對策跨部位的一個對策一個平台那在討論這樣的事情所以為什麼各部位都有相關的動作為什麼那個預算會從過去的100多億現在已經超過1000億來協助就是生跟養的一個環境\n\n12\n00:04:29,284 --> 00:04:35,549\n那當然是一種投資啦。我要講的就是說,我們2018年你制定對策計畫以後,你現在還沒5年啦。你除了150年計畫調整規劃以外,是不是該有一個總檢討?而且你當年那個對策計畫是107到113年,等於到今年而已,也沒了。那你的下一步呢?\n\n13\n00:04:52,043 --> 00:05:19,971\n現在已經,就是我剛才特別提到的那個林政委那邊已經在處理這件事情,已經提到的這件事情。這個其實喔,這個真的是對未來一個投資啊。本席再舉兩個例子啊。我在內政委員會喔,我也分別針對少子化的問題向原民會跟客戶會來提出詢問。就詢問說,自當年的少子化對策綱領制定以後,兩個跟族群相關的部會是不是有配合提出任何的對策?答案是沒有。\n\n14\n00:05:21,124 --> 00:05:41,154\n答案是沒有所以我現在很高興的就是說像這個政策也跟不上你像譬如說去年同樣在內委會我們在修那個住宅法的時候啊修法同時放寬政府住宅協助措施的經濟跟社會弱勢資格的時候我們從原有、預有3名以上的未成年子女現在調整成2名對不對但是呢當時我本席就認為說會不會真的要2名\n\n15\n00:05:47,017 --> 00:05:50,179\n國會現在享有當年統籌各部會制定少子化對策之名但對於各部會配合少子化的一個協調、溝通跟管道\n\n16\n00:06:13,315 --> 00:06:28,832\n我打上一個問號是不是國會可以從上位的角度去思考說全盤人口政策怎麼樣去調整跟精進甚至於加積極跟努力成效未必會看得到但是發現那個方向是對的\n\n17\n00:06:30,831 --> 00:06:54,603\n韓國大大開胃這個都不是社福支出這個是對我們自己國家的一個投資主委你看看簡單的我們也會支持委員的想法意見有好的一些建議我們也會透過林政委的平台來做建議那現在你剛才提到的總檢討現在在檢討當中我們也希望說各部會都可以\n\n18\n00:06:55,083 --> 00:06:55,163\n緊張參與這樣的事情\n\n","tsv":"start\tend\ttext\n4905\t9267\t謝謝主席。有請我們國發會、我們公主會。好,我們請公主會。主委好。主委好。這個啊,現在沒在經濟,所以就比較照顧自己的問題。常常有一些少子化的問題。\n24589\t46827\t願會再問我記得我去年上一次問的時候是去年9月針對傻子話的一個現象提出質詢那本席想再次來向你做一個請教就是說從1950年時代在我們台灣恐怕當初也都沒有去想到說會有求子不得將的一個窘境那個時候台灣的婦女平均一人生7胎\n48069\t68817\t一經我看你的孫生育率這個世界名列世界前茅到了1983年左右我們的生育率就低於人口維持替代率的2.1原因是什麼呢大家其實非常清楚了過去在國民黨時代的時候推行的一個政策都是維持一個降低人口的成長率適量的一個生育等等\n69497\t89285\t那同一個時間裡面其實當時你是可以看到那個是德國、日本都早都已經開始注意到少子化的一個威脅並開始相關的一個對策那本期要指出來就是說台灣的一個少子化嚴峻或許因為我們意識的太晚我們差不多到了2010年左右才驚覺到可能是一個國安的一個問題而\n92786\t108411\t2018 2018年才由我們國會統籌各部會來制定對策綱領並協調各個部會一起來努力但是就算說你去意識到並展開行動你去看日本2023年的新生兒人數是758,631人他比2022年還是減少了5.1%連續8年日本也創下統計以來最低的一個紀錄\n119454\t133759\t韓國呢他過去為了解決少子化的一個問題啊他投入這個資源喔可怕6.6兆的新台幣那就是說280兆的一個韓元到了2023年這個特殊的一個出生率啊這個還是啊跌到0.72同樣\n136240\t161687\t連續8年還是創限低日本如此韓國如此那少子化可以說是這已開發國家裡面必然面對的一個難題甚至本席都還認為說你這個你很難去根本去做處理那內政部日前公布了一個國安危機少子化浪潮的一個報告其中有提到了日本總生育率在1980年代是亞洲主要國家裡面的最後一名但是到了2005年開始\n163891\t179165\t注意一攀升到首位可見我們的政策目標首先應該是說放緩少子化的一個現象先達到放緩然後再試著去根除少子化的一個現象那這麼多的一個經費的一個挹注可能大家也要去重新去思考這個其實它不是一種攝服\n187105\t207484\t建物集開類是一種投資是一種投資未來人口的一個問題這個嚴峻而且涉及的層面非常廣大我也知道說這個不是單一個部會就可以去處理必須要大家共同你像比如說國發會、勞動部、內政部、經濟部、衛福部、高通部、省際財政部相關部會可以著力的一個地方\n208425\t233245\t我記得民進黨政府201616年當然開始各部會也提出了非常多的政策跟修法像是放寬、育嬰、留職、停薪等條件0到6歲國家一起養提升公托準公托數量等營造一個友善養兒的一個育兒的一個環境的一個政策相關預算也大幅增加所以我要請教主委就是說現在網路上都在說現在在說的嫂子話就說我們的政府只創一個嫂子話辦公室只這幾年這樣你感到福氣?\n244425\t263152\t現在是有一個林鄭委員就是行政院林鄭委員他在有一個對策就是少子化的一個對策跨部位的一個對策一個平台那在討論這樣的事情所以為什麼各部位都有相關的動作為什麼那個預算會從過去的100多億現在已經超過1000億來協助就是生跟養的一個環境\n269284\t275549\t那當然是一種投資啦。我要講的就是說,我們2018年你制定對策計畫以後,你現在還沒5年啦。你除了150年計畫調整規劃以外,是不是該有一個總檢討?而且你當年那個對策計畫是107到113年,等於到今年而已,也沒了。那你的下一步呢?\n292043\t319971\t現在已經,就是我剛才特別提到的那個林政委那邊已經在處理這件事情,已經提到的這件事情。這個其實喔,這個真的是對未來一個投資啊。本席再舉兩個例子啊。我在內政委員會喔,我也分別針對少子化的問題向原民會跟客戶會來提出詢問。就詢問說,自當年的少子化對策綱領制定以後,兩個跟族群相關的部會是不是有配合提出任何的對策?答案是沒有。\n321124\t341154\t答案是沒有所以我現在很高興的就是說像這個政策也跟不上你像譬如說去年同樣在內委會我們在修那個住宅法的時候啊修法同時放寬政府住宅協助措施的經濟跟社會弱勢資格的時候我們從原有、預有3名以上的未成年子女現在調整成2名對不對但是呢當時我本席就認為說會不會真的要2名\n347017\t350179\t國會現在享有當年統籌各部會制定少子化對策之名但對於各部會配合少子化的一個協調、溝通跟管道\n373315\t388832\t我打上一個問號是不是國會可以從上位的角度去思考說全盤人口政策怎麼樣去調整跟精進甚至於加積極跟努力成效未必會看得到但是發現那個方向是對的\n390831\t414603\t韓國大大開胃這個都不是社福支出這個是對我們自己國家的一個投資主委你看看簡單的我們也會支持委員的想法意見有好的一些建議我們也會透過林政委的平台來做建議那現在你剛才提到的總檢討現在在檢討當中我們也希望說各部會都可以\n415083\t415163\t緊張參與這樣的事情\n","txt":"謝謝主席。有請我們國發會、我們公主會。好,我們請公主會。主委好。主委好。這個啊,現在沒在經濟,所以就比較照顧自己的問題。常常有一些少子化的問題。\n願會再問我記得我去年上一次問的時候是去年9月針對傻子話的一個現象提出質詢那本席想再次來向你做一個請教就是說從1950年時代在我們台灣恐怕當初也都沒有去想到說會有求子不得將的一個窘境那個時候台灣的婦女平均一人生7胎\n一經我看你的孫生育率這個世界名列世界前茅到了1983年左右我們的生育率就低於人口維持替代率的2.1原因是什麼呢大家其實非常清楚了過去在國民黨時代的時候推行的一個政策都是維持一個降低人口的成長率適量的一個生育等等\n那同一個時間裡面其實當時你是可以看到那個是德國、日本都早都已經開始注意到少子化的一個威脅並開始相關的一個對策那本期要指出來就是說台灣的一個少子化嚴峻或許因為我們意識的太晚我們差不多到了2010年左右才驚覺到可能是一個國安的一個問題而\n2018 2018年才由我們國會統籌各部會來制定對策綱領並協調各個部會一起來努力但是就算說你去意識到並展開行動你去看日本2023年的新生兒人數是758,631人他比2022年還是減少了5.1%連續8年日本也創下統計以來最低的一個紀錄\n韓國呢他過去為了解決少子化的一個問題啊他投入這個資源喔可怕6.6兆的新台幣那就是說280兆的一個韓元到了2023年這個特殊的一個出生率啊這個還是啊跌到0.72同樣\n連續8年還是創限低日本如此韓國如此那少子化可以說是這已開發國家裡面必然面對的一個難題甚至本席都還認為說你這個你很難去根本去做處理那內政部日前公布了一個國安危機少子化浪潮的一個報告其中有提到了日本總生育率在1980年代是亞洲主要國家裡面的最後一名但是到了2005年開始\n注意一攀升到首位可見我們的政策目標首先應該是說放緩少子化的一個現象先達到放緩然後再試著去根除少子化的一個現象那這麼多的一個經費的一個挹注可能大家也要去重新去思考這個其實它不是一種攝服\n建物集開類是一種投資是一種投資未來人口的一個問題這個嚴峻而且涉及的層面非常廣大我也知道說這個不是單一個部會就可以去處理必須要大家共同你像比如說國發會、勞動部、內政部、經濟部、衛福部、高通部、省際財政部相關部會可以著力的一個地方\n我記得民進黨政府201616年當然開始各部會也提出了非常多的政策跟修法像是放寬、育嬰、留職、停薪等條件0到6歲國家一起養提升公托準公托數量等營造一個友善養兒的一個育兒的一個環境的一個政策相關預算也大幅增加所以我要請教主委就是說現在網路上都在說現在在說的嫂子話就說我們的政府只創一個嫂子話辦公室只這幾年這樣你感到福氣?\n現在是有一個林鄭委員就是行政院林鄭委員他在有一個對策就是少子化的一個對策跨部位的一個對策一個平台那在討論這樣的事情所以為什麼各部位都有相關的動作為什麼那個預算會從過去的100多億現在已經超過1000億來協助就是生跟養的一個環境\n那當然是一種投資啦。我要講的就是說,我們2018年你制定對策計畫以後,你現在還沒5年啦。你除了150年計畫調整規劃以外,是不是該有一個總檢討?而且你當年那個對策計畫是107到113年,等於到今年而已,也沒了。那你的下一步呢?\n現在已經,就是我剛才特別提到的那個林政委那邊已經在處理這件事情,已經提到的這件事情。這個其實喔,這個真的是對未來一個投資啊。本席再舉兩個例子啊。我在內政委員會喔,我也分別針對少子化的問題向原民會跟客戶會來提出詢問。就詢問說,自當年的少子化對策綱領制定以後,兩個跟族群相關的部會是不是有配合提出任何的對策?答案是沒有。\n答案是沒有所以我現在很高興的就是說像這個政策也跟不上你像譬如說去年同樣在內委會我們在修那個住宅法的時候啊修法同時放寬政府住宅協助措施的經濟跟社會弱勢資格的時候我們從原有、預有3名以上的未成年子女現在調整成2名對不對但是呢當時我本席就認為說會不會真的要2名\n國會現在享有當年統籌各部會制定少子化對策之名但對於各部會配合少子化的一個協調、溝通跟管道\n我打上一個問號是不是國會可以從上位的角度去思考說全盤人口政策怎麼樣去調整跟精進甚至於加積極跟努力成效未必會看得到但是發現那個方向是對的\n韓國大大開胃這個都不是社福支出這個是對我們自己國家的一個投資主委你看看簡單的我們也會支持委員的想法意見有好的一些建議我們也會透過林政委的平台來做建議那現在你剛才提到的總檢討現在在檢討當中我們也希望說各部會都可以\n緊張參與這樣的事情\n","vtt":"WEBVTT\n\n00:04.905 --> 00:09.267\n謝謝主席。有請我們國發會、我們公主會。好,我們請公主會。主委好。主委好。這個啊,現在沒在經濟,所以就比較照顧自己的問題。常常有一些少子化的問題。\n\n00:24.589 --> 00:46.827\n願會再問我記得我去年上一次問的時候是去年9月針對傻子話的一個現象提出質詢那本席想再次來向你做一個請教就是說從1950年時代在我們台灣恐怕當初也都沒有去想到說會有求子不得將的一個窘境那個時候台灣的婦女平均一人生7胎\n\n00:48.069 --> 01:08.817\n一經我看你的孫生育率這個世界名列世界前茅到了1983年左右我們的生育率就低於人口維持替代率的2.1原因是什麼呢大家其實非常清楚了過去在國民黨時代的時候推行的一個政策都是維持一個降低人口的成長率適量的一個生育等等\n\n01:09.497 --> 01:29.285\n那同一個時間裡面其實當時你是可以看到那個是德國、日本都早都已經開始注意到少子化的一個威脅並開始相關的一個對策那本期要指出來就是說台灣的一個少子化嚴峻或許因為我們意識的太晚我們差不多到了2010年左右才驚覺到可能是一個國安的一個問題而\n\n01:32.786 --> 01:48.411\n20182018年才由我們國會統籌各部會來制定對策綱領並協調各個部會一起來努力但是就算說你去意識到並展開行動你去看日本2023年的新生兒人數是758,631人他比2022年還是減少了5.1%連續8年日本也創下統計以來最低的一個紀錄\n\n01:59.454 --> 02:13.759\n韓國呢他過去為了解決少子化的一個問題啊他投入這個資源喔可怕6.6兆的新台幣那就是說280兆的一個韓元到了2023年這個特殊的一個出生率啊這個還是啊跌到0.72同樣\n\n02:16.240 --> 02:41.687\n連續8年還是創限低日本如此韓國如此那少子化可以說是這已開發國家裡面必然面對的一個難題甚至本席都還認為說你這個你很難去根本去做處理那內政部日前公布了一個國安危機少子化浪潮的一個報告其中有提到了日本總生育率在1980年代是亞洲主要國家裡面的最後一名但是到了2005年開始\n\n02:43.891 --> 02:59.165\n注意一攀升到首位可見我們的政策目標首先應該是說放緩少子化的一個現象先達到放緩然後再試著去根除少子化的一個現象那這麼多的一個經費的一個挹注可能大家也要去重新去思考這個其實它不是一種攝服\n\n03:07.105 --> 03:27.484\n建物集開類是一種投資是一種投資未來人口的一個問題這個嚴峻而且涉及的層面非常廣大我也知道說這個不是單一個部會就可以去處理必須要大家共同你像比如說國發會、勞動部、內政部、經濟部、衛福部、高通部、省際財政部相關部會可以著力的一個地方\n\n03:28.425 --> 03:53.245\n我記得民進黨政府201616年當然開始各部會也提出了非常多的政策跟修法像是放寬、育嬰、留職、停薪等條件0到6歲國家一起養提升公托準公托數量等營造一個友善養兒的一個育兒的一個環境的一個政策相關預算也大幅增加所以我要請教主委就是說現在網路上都在說現在在說的嫂子話就說我們的政府只創一個嫂子話辦公室只這幾年這樣你感到福氣?\n\n04:04.425 --> 04:23.152\n現在是有一個林鄭委員就是行政院林鄭委員他在有一個對策就是少子化的一個對策跨部位的一個對策一個平台那在討論這樣的事情所以為什麼各部位都有相關的動作為什麼那個預算會從過去的100多億現在已經超過1000億來協助就是生跟養的一個環境\n\n04:29.284 --> 04:35.549\n那當然是一種投資啦。我要講的就是說,我們2018年你制定對策計畫以後,你現在還沒5年啦。你除了150年計畫調整規劃以外,是不是該有一個總檢討?而且你當年那個對策計畫是107到113年,等於到今年而已,也沒了。那你的下一步呢?\n\n04:52.043 --> 05:19.971\n現在已經,就是我剛才特別提到的那個林政委那邊已經在處理這件事情,已經提到的這件事情。這個其實喔,這個真的是對未來一個投資啊。本席再舉兩個例子啊。我在內政委員會喔,我也分別針對少子化的問題向原民會跟客戶會來提出詢問。就詢問說,自當年的少子化對策綱領制定以後,兩個跟族群相關的部會是不是有配合提出任何的對策?答案是沒有。\n\n05:21.124 --> 05:41.154\n答案是沒有所以我現在很高興的就是說像這個政策也跟不上你像譬如說去年同樣在內委會我們在修那個住宅法的時候啊修法同時放寬政府住宅協助措施的經濟跟社會弱勢資格的時候我們從原有、預有3名以上的未成年子女現在調整成2名對不對但是呢當時我本席就認為說會不會真的要2名\n\n05:47.017 --> 05:50.179\n國會現在享有當年統籌各部會制定少子化對策之名但對於各部會配合少子化的一個協調、溝通跟管道\n\n06:13.315 --> 06:28.832\n我打上一個問號是不是國會可以從上位的角度去思考說全盤人口政策怎麼樣去調整跟精進甚至於加積極跟努力成效未必會看得到但是發現那個方向是對的\n\n06:30.831 --> 06:54.603\n韓國大大開胃這個都不是社福支出這個是對我們自己國家的一個投資主委你看看簡單的我們也會支持委員的想法意見有好的一些建議我們也會透過林政委的平台來做建議那現在你剛才提到的總檢討現在在檢討當中我們也希望說各部會都可以\n\n06:55.083 --> 06:55.163\n緊張參與這樣的事情\n\n","segments":[{"start":4.905,"end":9.267,"text":"謝謝主席。有請我們國發會、我們公主會。好,我們請公主會。主委好。主委好。這個啊,現在沒在經濟,所以就比較照顧自己的問題。常常有一些少子化的問題。"},{"start":24.589,"end":46.827,"text":"願會再問我記得我去年上一次問的時候是去年9月針對傻子話的一個現象提出質詢那本席想再次來向你做一個請教就是說從1950年時代在我們台灣恐怕當初也都沒有去想到說會有求子不得將的一個窘境那個時候台灣的婦女平均一人生7胎"},{"start":48.069,"end":68.817,"text":"一經我看你的孫生育率這個世界名列世界前茅到了1983年左右我們的生育率就低於人口維持替代率的2.1原因是什麼呢大家其實非常清楚了過去在國民黨時代的時候推行的一個政策都是維持一個降低人口的成長率適量的一個生育等等"},{"start":69.497,"end":89.285,"text":"那同一個時間裡面其實當時你是可以看到那個是德國、日本都早都已經開始注意到少子化的一個威脅並開始相關的一個對策那本期要指出來就是說台灣的一個少子化嚴峻或許因為我們意識的太晚我們差不多到了2010年左右才驚覺到可能是一個國安的一個問題而"},{"start":92.786,"end":108.411,"text":"2018 2018年才由我們國會統籌各部會來制定對策綱領並協調各個部會一起來努力但是就算說你去意識到並展開行動你去看日本2023年的新生兒人數是758,631人他比2022年還是減少了5.1%連續8年日本也創下統計以來最低的一個紀錄"},{"start":119.454,"end":133.759,"text":"韓國呢他過去為了解決少子化的一個問題啊他投入這個資源喔可怕6.6兆的新台幣那就是說280兆的一個韓元到了2023年這個特殊的一個出生率啊這個還是啊跌到0.72同樣"},{"start":136.24,"end":161.687,"text":"連續8年還是創限低日本如此韓國如此那少子化可以說是這已開發國家裡面必然面對的一個難題甚至本席都還認為說你這個你很難去根本去做處理那內政部日前公布了一個國安危機少子化浪潮的一個報告其中有提到了日本總生育率在1980年代是亞洲主要國家裡面的最後一名但是到了2005年開始"},{"start":163.891,"end":179.165,"text":"注意一攀升到首位可見我們的政策目標首先應該是說放緩少子化的一個現象先達到放緩然後再試著去根除少子化的一個現象那這麼多的一個經費的一個挹注可能大家也要去重新去思考這個其實它不是一種攝服"},{"start":187.105,"end":207.484,"text":"建物集開類是一種投資是一種投資未來人口的一個問題這個嚴峻而且涉及的層面非常廣大我也知道說這個不是單一個部會就可以去處理必須要大家共同你像比如說國發會、勞動部、內政部、經濟部、衛福部、高通部、省際財政部相關部會可以著力的一個地方"},{"start":208.425,"end":233.245,"text":"我記得民進黨政府201616年當然開始各部會也提出了非常多的政策跟修法像是放寬、育嬰、留職、停薪等條件0到6歲國家一起養提升公托準公托數量等營造一個友善養兒的一個育兒的一個環境的一個政策相關預算也大幅增加所以我要請教主委就是說現在網路上都在說現在在說的嫂子話就說我們的政府只創一個嫂子話辦公室只這幾年這樣你感到福氣?"},{"start":244.425,"end":263.152,"text":"現在是有一個林鄭委員就是行政院林鄭委員他在有一個對策就是少子化的一個對策跨部位的一個對策一個平台那在討論這樣的事情所以為什麼各部位都有相關的動作為什麼那個預算會從過去的100多億現在已經超過1000億來協助就是生跟養的一個環境"},{"start":269.284,"end":275.549,"text":"那當然是一種投資啦。我要講的就是說,我們2018年你制定對策計畫以後,你現在還沒5年啦。你除了150年計畫調整規劃以外,是不是該有一個總檢討?而且你當年那個對策計畫是107到113年,等於到今年而已,也沒了。那你的下一步呢?"},{"start":292.043,"end":319.971,"text":"現在已經,就是我剛才特別提到的那個林政委那邊已經在處理這件事情,已經提到的這件事情。這個其實喔,這個真的是對未來一個投資啊。本席再舉兩個例子啊。我在內政委員會喔,我也分別針對少子化的問題向原民會跟客戶會來提出詢問。就詢問說,自當年的少子化對策綱領制定以後,兩個跟族群相關的部會是不是有配合提出任何的對策?答案是沒有。"},{"start":321.124,"end":341.154,"text":"答案是沒有所以我現在很高興的就是說像這個政策也跟不上你像譬如說去年同樣在內委會我們在修那個住宅法的時候啊修法同時放寬政府住宅協助措施的經濟跟社會弱勢資格的時候我們從原有、預有3名以上的未成年子女現在調整成2名對不對但是呢當時我本席就認為說會不會真的要2名"},{"start":347.017,"end":350.179,"text":"國會現在享有當年統籌各部會制定少子化對策之名但對於各部會配合少子化的一個協調、溝通跟管道"},{"start":373.315,"end":388.832,"text":"我打上一個問號是不是國會可以從上位的角度去思考說全盤人口政策怎麼樣去調整跟精進甚至於加積極跟努力成效未必會看得到但是發現那個方向是對的"},{"start":390.831,"end":414.603,"text":"韓國大大開胃這個都不是社福支出這個是對我們自己國家的一個投資主委你看看簡單的我們也會支持委員的想法意見有好的一些建議我們也會透過林政委的平台來做建議那現在你剛才提到的總檢討現在在檢討當中我們也希望說各部會都可以"},{"start":415.083,"end":415.163,"text":"緊張參與這樣的事情"}]}}}}