{"id":149403,"url":"https://ivod.ly.gov.tw/Play/Clip/1M/149403","video_url":"https://ivod-lyvod.cdn.hinet.net/vod_1/_definst_/mp4:1MClips/aa454a369d2b172f8bd706e6aade18bcb97b2be93641c974f8ba9b0039caa7a66b39a8e8f8d8ca115ea18f28b6918d91.mp4/playlist.m3u8","委員名稱":"張智倫","委員發言時間":"11:27:26 - 11:38:54","影片長度":"00:11:28","會議時間":"2024-03-06T09:00:00+08:00","會議名稱":"立法院第11屆第1會期內政委員會第3次全體委員會議（事由：邀請大陸委員會主任委員及交通部次長、交通部觀光署署長就「赴陸旅遊團停招：決策過程與後續影響評估」進行專題報告，並備質詢。）","meet":{"tmpMeeting":null,"title":"第11屆第1會期內政委員會第3次全體委員會議","term":11,"type":"委員會","sessionPeriod":1,"sessionTimes":3,"committees":[15],"id":"委員會-11-1-15-3"},"date":"2024-03-06","duration":688,"end_time":"2024-03-06T11:38:54+08:00","start_time":"2024-03-06T11:27:26+08:00","features":["ai-transcript","gazette"],"type":"Clip","gazette":{"lineno":877,"blocks":[["張委員智倫：（11時27分）主席好，各位委員好，各位官員好，各位媒體先進大家好。請邱主委及次長。"],["主席：有請主委和次長，謝謝。"],["邱主任委員太三：張委員好。"],["張委員智倫：我先請教次長。"],["林次長國顯：委員好。"],["張委員智倫：首先要先感謝次長，因為本席非常關心中和的交通，目前國道3號從土城往中和方向北上出口，其實高公局非常積極努力去做一個改善的工作，相信進度會蠻快就完成了，所以在這邊要先感謝您。"],["林次長國顯：是，謝謝委員指導。"],["張委員智倫：可是感謝歸感謝，質詢還是要質詢。請問次長，現在臺灣的旅行觀光業者有四千多家業者，對於交通部從農曆年前開放臺灣的旅行業者可以組團到大陸去旅遊，而且在小年夜之後就禁止了，只開放了3個月，請問，我們是依據哪一條法令對旅行業者做這樣的限制？"],["林次長國顯：報告委員，在旅行業管理規則第四十九條第十九款有規定旅行業者要依照觀光署的指導來決定他們相關的作業，所以基本上我們是提醒他們在這段期間既然已經組團，從3月1號到5月31號還是要……"],["張委員智倫：我請教一下，就我得知當時是依照發展觀光條例第五十三條的規定說，因為這樣子的行為會傷害國家的利益，請問你們有這樣子回答旅行業者嗎？"],["林次長國顯：那個是最高階的，就是說不確定因素可能會損害國家利益，但是真正的授權是在第六十六條。"],["張委員智倫：本席認為第一個你們沒有跟國內的觀光業者充分去溝通，因為觀光業者他們的想法是，發展觀光條例第五十三條僅限於對旅行業經營的管理，它應該沒有辦法擴張到禁止旅行團組團去某一些區域，這是不是已經逾越法令的一些規定？你們的講法是不是已經逾越了法定的規定？"],["林次長國顯：跟委員報告，發展觀光條例第六十六條要求授權給交通部，就是目的事業主管機關訂定相關管理規則，所以我們在旅行業管理規則第四十九條有相關的規定……"],["張委員智倫：那我請問母法的部分是不是因為會有損國家利益？"],["林次長國顯：母法是第六十六條，授權給交通部訂定，第六十六條……"],["張委員智倫：那您認不認為這樣子會有影響國家……"],["林次長國顯：您剛剛講的是罰則的部分跟相關的後果。"],["張委員智倫：本席想要瞭解的是，因為當時你們跟所有觀光旅行業者是說用發展觀光條例第五十三條，這在新聞上都可以查得到，說是有損及國家的利益啊！那現在你們是改口不是用這條嗎？"],["林次長國顯：跟委員報告，第五十三條裡面有三項，其中有一項是損害國家利益，損害國家利益因為還沒有不確定因素發生，所以我們是用第六十六條授權的部分，旅行業管理規則第……"],["張委員智倫：我認為這樣就是法令的無限擴張啦，所以本席在此要拜託交通部，旅行業者帶團去大陸旅遊如果真的有損及國家的利益的話，3個月就會造成損及國家利益的話，也拜託交通部可以提供給我書面資料，到底如何、為什麼出遊超過3個月就會損及國家利益？這是一開始你們對旅行業者所提出的說法，所以我覺得你們還是應該要負責。","第二個我想請問次長的是，觀光旅行業者其實有強烈跟你們表達說，當你們3月份開放以後，包括3、4、5、6月，尤其4、5、6月是一個檔期，很多觀光業者其實6月份的部分都已經下訂了，不管是機票、大陸的住宿以及交通等等相關費用，結果你們限制5月31號以後就不能去，6月份造成旅行業者大量金額的損失，以及7、8月如果有一些特定的觀光景點他們要預定也要下訂金，這個部分你們要怎麼處理？要提出多少賠償金額？"],["林次長國顯：我是不是請觀光署跟您報告一下？"],["張委員智倫：好，麻煩。"],["林次長國顯：基本上，3月到5月我們讓它如期出團……"],["張委員智倫：那6月和7月呢？尤其6月份……"],["林次長國顯：它可以提前出團或是併團……"],["張委員智倫：如果沒辦法提前出團的話，要如何補償這些旅行觀光業者的損失？損失大概估計多少錢？要用什麼樣的經費去支付？"],["周副署長廷彰：跟委員做一個說明，3月到5月的部分，我們目前掌握大概是有四千團。"],["張委員智倫：我是說6月份，不好意思。"],["周副署長廷彰：關於6月的部分，現在有三個政策，第一個是說它可以併到3月到5月的部分……"],["張委員智倫：如果不能併的話，大概有多少……"],["周副署長廷彰：第二個部分是可以改變其他的目的地，第三個就是可以退費解約。"],["張委員智倫：解約的損失是誰來補償？"],["周副署長廷彰：那就要看他們當初訂定契約的一個……"],["張委員智倫：我跟次長報告臺灣觀光業者沒有辦法接受的地方，這些解約需不需要由旅行業者自行負擔？在此我要跟次長報告，其實當時有開一個記者會，旅行業者已經有在記者會裡面講了，他們不排除520的時候去賴清德總統的就職典禮給他祝賀，表達他們強烈的訴求。我希望的是請次長一定要跟觀光旅行業者做一個很好的溝通跟討論，好好去做補償，不要讓這些觀光旅行業者沒有辦法得到訴求，而在賴清德總統520就職典禮那一天去做一個恭賀的行為，我覺得這是非常不當的，所以要拜託次長，因為今天部長不在，你是不是可以保證做個好好的溝通，520的時候不會發生這樣的事情？"],["林次長國顯：跟委員報告，觀光署在2月19號有找業者來溝通，基本上也要讓業者知道這是兩邊互動的一個過程，因為是為了旅遊跟觀光發展的長治久安，所以我們也期待在3月到5月之間，如果陸方有善意的回應，能夠開放團客進來，那其實這個我們也可以繼續延續下去。"],["張委員智倫：所以還是要拜託次長，因為你目前為止還是沒有明確的回答我，不管是6月份旅行業者的損失，或是7、8月份有些特殊地方他們的訂金要如何去做補償，我想以這樣的回答，觀光業者是不太會妥協，也不太會認同，所我希望你在520的時候不要像本席所講的沒有辦法完成這件事情。","最後也要跟你報告，因為今天部長不在，其實部長在108年的時候有代理過交通部長，這邊有個統計數字要跟您報告，在108年的時候，臺灣去大陸的旅客人次是230萬人次，大陸來臺灣的旅客是將近180萬人次，我相信部長和次長應該非常瞭解，其實過去在疫情之前，兩岸的旅遊觀光是非常順暢的，所以我希望部長和次長可以儘量努力回復疫情之前兩岸觀光旅遊的狀況。"],["林次長國顯：是。"],["張委員智倫：現在是不是可以請主委一起來，我有些事要跟你們兩位請問一下。"],["林次長國顯：謝謝委員，我們也希望大陸能夠開放。"],["張委員智倫：我要特別請教兩位，兩位都可以一起回答。因為你們現在說臺灣可以組團到大陸去旅遊是限制到5月31號，所以拜託部長、次長及我們敬愛的主委，你們是不是可以組一團到大陸去旅遊？人家說見面三分情，有旅遊就有溝通，有溝通大家就可以更順暢的去做一個未來兩岸的……","主席，不好意思，我可不可以再延長時間？兩岸如果有溝通，如果你們願意開放組團，由交通部長跟主委組一個團到大陸去觀光，順便去溝通、討論未來兩岸的部分要如何來促進，像疫情之前的順利的話，是不是請部長、次長還有主委組一個團來做一個兩岸破冰之旅？請兩位回答。"],["邱主任委員太三：委員你如果願意組團，我願意報名參加。事實上過去這三十幾年我去大陸大概快要20次以上了。"],["張委員智倫：我請問一下，從疫情之後你有去大陸過嗎？"],["邱主任委員太三：沒有。"],["張委員智倫：對呀，我的意思是說，既然我們都已經開放了，從3月到5月31日可以開放……"],["邱主任委員太三：委員，我想應該……"],["張委員智倫：我們是不是請次長也來回答一下？"],["林次長國顯：跟委員報告……"],["張委員智倫：有沒有這樣的考慮？為了我們臺灣、兩岸……"],["林次長國顯：跟委員報告，其實我們是沒有禁止自由行去大陸，所以我們是可以去參訪，現在問題是他們沒有開放團客，重點是他們沒有開放團客過來……"],["張委員智倫：我的意思是說，就是因為沒有開放團客，尤其交通部一直的表述是說我們就是善意地等待陸方這邊的回應，所以我認為可以主動出擊……"],["林次長國顯：我們歡迎大陸團客、自由行都可以來。"],["張委員智倫：不管是次長或是主委，你們就組一個觀光團，帶著我們旅行業者去強力地講說過去不管是疫情前我們是如何去做交流的，為什麼疫情完以後不能做交流？我覺得不要太多政治口水，應該要主動出擊，而不是一直等大陸單方的回應。"],["林次長國顯：事實上我們有邀請他們的踩線團來臺灣，也……"],["張委員智倫：我請教一下，有沒有辦法去大陸做一個旅行團？因為是可以開放團客去大陸，有沒有辦法就組一個團，由次長跟主委組一個團去大陸做參訪？"],["邱主任委員太三：委員，我想可能你先去瞭解一下，對岸如果願意讓我去，我是很樂觀其成……"],["張委員智倫：所以你不排斥嗎？"],["邱主任委員太三：我不是不排斥，我剛剛講，你如果組得成的話，我報名你的團。"],["張委員智倫：我跟你講，我們是民意代表，是監督單位，你們有行政權。所以你不排斥嗎？"],["邱主任委員太三：我不是不排斥，我很樂觀其成。我不是不排斥而已，我是樂觀其成。"],["張委員智倫：最後還是要拜託主委，我跟您報告，剛剛有報告這個人數，其實臺灣去大陸的人次在疫情之前有230萬人……"],["邱主任委員太三：對，更早的話更多。"],["張委員智倫：所以就算兩岸沒辦法開放團客，還是有非常多的臺灣人會去大陸，所以請你們一定要好好來處理這件事情，保障臺灣人到大陸旅遊的安全，可以嗎？"],["邱主任委員太三：對，委員，我想你剛剛提到的不錯，就是我們也要讓大陸的政府知道我們也期待他們的人都過來，兩岸這樣的交流其實可以更加地認識跟理解，我想這是善意的增加。"],["張委員智倫：好，謝謝主委。"],["主席：謝謝張智倫委員的質詢，也謝謝主委、次長以及副署長，謝謝。","繼續我們請丁學忠委員來質詢，謝謝。"]],"agenda":{"page_end":76,"meet_id":"委員會-11-1-15-3","speakers":["高金素梅","徐欣瑩","王美惠","吳琪銘","蘇巧慧","牛煦庭","張宏陸","黃建賓","黃捷","許宇甄","李柏毅","張智倫","丁學忠","麥玉珍","鄭天財Sra 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\"我們有邀請他們的彩線團來臺灣\", \"words\": [{\"word\": \"我\", \"start\": 583.073, \"end\": 583.273, \"score\": 0.741}, {\"word\": \"們\"}, {\"word\": \"有\", \"start\": 583.273, \"end\": 583.333, \"score\": 0.663}, {\"word\": \"邀\", \"start\": 583.333, \"end\": 583.353, \"score\": 0.0}, {\"word\": \"請\"}, {\"word\": \"他\", \"start\": 583.353, \"end\": 583.373, \"score\": 0.005}, {\"word\": \"們\"}, {\"word\": \"的\", \"start\": 583.373, \"end\": 583.494, \"score\": 0.793}, {\"word\": \"彩\", \"start\": 583.494, \"end\": 583.514, \"score\": 0.0}, {\"word\": \"線\"}, {\"word\": \"團\"}, {\"word\": \"來\"}, {\"word\": \"臺\"}, {\"word\": \"灣\"}]}, {\"start\": 605.81, \"end\": 619.996, \"text\": \"我請教一下有沒有辦法去大陸去做一個旅行團因為是可以開放團客去大陸嘛有沒有辦法開放就組一個團由次長跟主委組一個團去大陸做參訪\", \"words\": [{\"word\": \"我\", \"start\": 605.81, \"end\": 605.93, \"score\": 0.833}, {\"word\": \"請\"}, {\"word\": \"教\", \"start\": 605.93, \"end\": 606.29, \"score\": 0.887}, {\"word\": \"一\", \"start\": 606.29, \"end\": 606.45, \"score\": 0.875}, 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{\"word\": \"旅\", \"start\": 665.707, \"end\": 666.027, \"score\": 0.886}, {\"word\": \"遊\"}, {\"word\": \"的\", \"start\": 666.027, \"end\": 666.127, \"score\": 0.993}, {\"word\": \"安\", \"start\": 666.127, \"end\": 666.288, \"score\": 0.87}, {\"word\": \"全\", \"start\": 666.288, \"end\": 666.428, \"score\": 0.914}, {\"word\": \"可\", \"start\": 666.428, \"end\": 666.528, \"score\": 0.803}, {\"word\": \"以\", \"start\": 666.528, \"end\": 666.548, \"score\": 0.0}, {\"word\": \"嗎\"}, {\"word\": \"張\"}, {\"word\": \"智\", \"start\": 667.008, \"end\": 667.028, \"score\": 0.0}, {\"word\": \"倫\"}, {\"word\": \"委\", \"start\": 667.028, \"end\": 667.048, \"score\": 0.0}, {\"word\": \"員\"}], \"language\": \"zh\"}","srt":"1\n00:00:03,228 --> 00:00:12,960\n主席好、各位委員好、各位我們官員好、各位媒體好先敬大家好是不是請我們邱主委跟我們的次長有請主委和次長,謝謝張委員好我先請次長\n\n2\n00:00:19,435 --> 00:00:37,305\n首先要先感謝次長因為本席非常關心中和的交通所以目前關於我們中和國道3號有關於這個從土城往中和方向北向的出口其實高空局有非常積極努力來去做一個改善的工作那相信這個進度會蠻快就完成的\n\n3\n00:00:37,725 --> 00:00:40,547\n請問次長您知道現在我們台灣的旅行觀光業者有4000多家的業者對於交通部現在從這個農曆年前開放台灣的這個旅行業者可以組團到大陸去旅遊\n\n4\n00:00:58,097 --> 00:01:02,224\n請問次長這邊我們是依據哪一條法令來去做對體行業者做這個限制\n\n5\n00:01:09,637 --> 00:01:33,440\n報告委員,我們在旅行業管理規則49條第19款有說旅行業者要依照觀光署的指導來決定他們相關的作業所以基本上我們是提醒他們說在這段期間既然已經組團3月1號到5月31號還是讓他們組團我請教一下,因為就我得知當時有依照觀光發展條例第53條\n\n6\n00:01:34,961 --> 00:01:52,130\n的規定說因為這樣子的行為會傷害國家的利益請問你們有這樣子回答我們的旅行員者嗎?那個是最高階的就是說不確定因素可能會損害國家利益但是真正的授權是在66條\n\n7\n00:01:53,291 --> 00:02:20,743\n好這就是本席我認為你們第一個沒有跟我們國內的觀光業者充分去溝通因為觀光業者他們的想法是說這是這個有跟針對觀光發展觀光條例第53條是僅限於對旅行業經營的管理它是應該是沒有辦法擴張到禁止旅行團組團去某一些區域是不是已經逾越法定的一些規定你們的想法是不是已經逾越了法定的規定\n\n8\n00:02:22,048 --> 00:02:41,860\n跟委員報告,《發展觀光條例》第66條,要求授權給交通部,就是目的世界主管機關,訂定相關的管理規則。所以我們在《旅行業管理規則》裡面第49條有相關的規定。那我請問母法的部分是不是因為會有損國家利益?母法是第66條,授權給交通部訂定,66條。\n\n9\n00:02:45,700 --> 00:02:47,746\n那你剛剛講的那個是法則的部分跟相關的後果對\n\n10\n00:02:52,628 --> 00:03:18,721\n所以本席要了解是說因為當時你們跟我們所有的觀光旅行業者是說用觀光發展條例第53條這新聞上都可以查得到說有損及國家的利益啊那現在你們是改口說不是用這條嗎跟委員報告53條裡面有三項嘛裡面有一項是損害國家利益損害國家利益因為還沒有還不確定因素發生所以我們是用第66條授權的部分\n\n11\n00:03:20,642 --> 00:03:36,017\n我認為這樣就是法令的無限的擴張所以本席這邊要拜託我們交通部這邊如果旅行業者如果真的去帶團去大陸旅遊如果真的有損及國家的利益的話\n\n12\n00:03:36,598 --> 00:03:37,078\n請問我們次長的部分\n\n13\n00:03:57,726 --> 00:04:13,224\n這個有關於這個觀光旅行業者其實有強烈跟你們表達說當你們3月份開放以後3、4、5、6月尤其4、5、6月它是一個檔期喔很多的觀光業者其實6月份的時候都已經下訂了不管是機票以及大陸的這個\n\n14\n00:04:13,985 --> 00:04:14,265\n主席\n\n15\n00:04:34,539 --> 00:04:48,717\n跟委員報告我是不是請觀光署跟您報告一下基本上3月到5月我們讓他如期出團那6月6月跟7月如期6月份他可以提前出團或是併團那如果有辦法提前出團的話要如何補償這些旅行觀光業者的損失\n\n16\n00:04:50,489 --> 00:05:16,187\n那損失大概估計多少錢?要用什麼樣的經費來去支付?跟委員做一個說明,那3月到5月的部分,我們目前掌握大概是有4000團。我說6月份,不好意思。那6月部分的話,他現在有三個政策。第一個是說,他可以併到3月到5月的這個部分。如果不能併的話,大概有多少?第二個部分是可以,就是說到改變其他的目的地。那第三個就是可以退費解約。解約的損失是誰來補償?\n\n17\n00:05:18,291 --> 00:05:21,354\n臺灣的觀光業者沒有辦法接受的地方,這些解約需要旅行業者自行負擔。\n\n18\n00:05:34,524 --> 00:05:51,895\n旅行業者當時已經有在記者會裡面講了他們不排除520的時候來去賴清德總統的就職典禮來給他祝賀來表達他們強烈的訴求那我希望的是說請這個次長的部分一定要跟觀光旅行業者\n\n19\n00:05:52,695 --> 00:06:13,866\n來做一個很好的溝通跟討論好好的來去補償不要讓這些觀光旅行業者他們沒有辦法得到訴求而在賴清德總統520就職典禮那一天來去做一個恭賀的行為我覺得這是非常不當的所以拜託希望說這個次長這邊因為今天部長不在是不是可以保證我可以做個好好的溝通520的時候不會發生這樣的事情\n\n20\n00:06:16,505 --> 00:06:35,824\n跟委員報告,觀光署在2月19日有找業者來溝通基本上也要讓業者知道這是兩邊互動的一個過程因為是為了長久旅遊跟觀光發展的長治久安所以我們也期待在3月到5月之間如果陸方有善意的回應,能夠開放團客進來其實這個我們也可以繼續延續下去\n\n21\n00:06:39,648 --> 00:07:02,757\n所以還是要拜託次長因為這邊你目前為止還是沒有一個明確的回答我說不管是6月份旅行業者的損失或是7、8月份有些特殊地方他們的訂金是如何去做補償所以我想以這樣的回答觀光業者是不會不太會妥協也不太會認同所以520的部分我希望你在520的時候不要像本席講的沒有辦法完成這件事情\n\n22\n00:07:03,297 --> 00:07:22,865\n那最後也要跟你報告因為今天我們的部長不在其實部長在108年的時候其實有代理過這個交通部長所以我也要跟你這邊有一個統計數字跟你報告在108年的時候臺灣去大陸的旅客人次是230萬人次\n\n23\n00:07:25,186 --> 00:07:49,826\n大陸來台灣的旅客是將近180萬人次所以我們的邱部長、次長你們應該非常了解其實過去在疫情之前兩岸的旅遊觀光是非常的順暢的所以我希望說部長這邊跟次長這邊可以盡量來努力回復疫情之前兩岸的觀光旅遊的問題好那現在我是不是也可以請我們的主委一起來我有些事要跟你們兩個請問一下\n\n24\n00:07:52,407 --> 00:08:10,836\n這邊就是我要特別請到兩位都可以一起回答這邊就跟你們請教因為你們現在限制我們台灣可以組團到大陸去旅遊是限制到5月31號所以是拜託部長、次長跟我們敬愛的主委你們是不是可以組一團到大陸去旅遊\n\n25\n00:08:11,836 --> 00:08:29,527\n順便大家說見面三分情有旅遊就有溝通有溝通就可以大家可以更順暢的去去來做一個未來兩岸的主席不好意思我可以再兩岸如果有溝通如果你們願意有來開放組團由交通部長跟我們的\n\n26\n00:08:30,467 --> 00:08:58,290\n主委組一個團到我們大陸去觀光順便去溝通討論未來兩岸的部分要如何來促進像疫情之前的順利的話是不是請部長、次長還有我們主委我們組一個團來做一個兩岸破冰之旅請兩位回答你如果願意組團我願意報名參加我大概事實上過去這30幾年我去大陸大概快要20次以上了\n\n27\n00:08:58,888 --> 00:09:10,357\n那我請問一下,從疫情之後你有去大陸過嗎?沒有對啊,那我的意思是說,既然我們都已經開放了,從3月到5月31號可以開放,那我們是不是請次長也來回答一下?\n\n28\n00:09:16,718 --> 00:09:39,331\n有沒有這樣的考慮為了我們臺灣兩岸其實我們是沒有禁止自由行去大陸所以我們是可以去參觀那現在問題是他沒有開放團客重點是我的意思是說就是因為沒有開放團客尤其交通部他的一直的表述是說我們就是等待善意的等待陸方這邊的回應所以我認為可以主動出擊\n\n29\n00:09:43,073 --> 00:09:43,514\n我們有邀請他們的彩線團來臺灣\n\n30\n00:10:05,810 --> 00:10:19,996\n我請教一下有沒有辦法去大陸去做一個旅行團因為是可以開放團客去大陸嘛有沒有辦法開放就組一個團由次長跟主委組一個團去大陸做參訪\n\n31\n00:10:22,575 --> 00:10:41,694\n我想這個可能你先去了解一下對岸如果願意讓我去我是所以你不排斥嗎我不是不排斥我剛剛講你如果組得成的話我報名你的團因為我跟你講我們是民意代表是監督單位你們有行政權所以你不排斥嗎我不是不排斥我很樂觀其成\n\n32\n00:10:43,171 --> 00:11:06,548\n我不是不排斥而已最後還是要拜託我們的主委因為其實我跟您報告剛剛有報告這個人數其實台灣去大陸的人次從疫情之前是有230萬人所以就算你沒有辦法台灣沒辦法開放團客還是有非常多的台灣的人會去大陸所以請你們一定要好好來處理這件事情保障台灣人到大陸旅遊的安全可以嗎\n\n33\n00:11:07,008 --> 00:11:07,048\n張智倫委員\n\n","tsv":"start\tend\ttext\n3228\t12960\t主席好、各位委員好、各位我們官員好、各位媒體好先敬大家好是不是請我們邱主委跟我們的次長有請主委和次長,謝謝張委員好我先請次長\n19435\t37305\t首先要先感謝次長因為本席非常關心中和的交通所以目前關於我們中和國道3號有關於這個從土城往中和方向北向的出口其實高空局有非常積極努力來去做一個改善的工作那相信這個進度會蠻快就完成的\n37725\t40547\t請問次長您知道現在我們台灣的旅行觀光業者有4000多家的業者對於交通部現在從這個農曆年前開放台灣的這個旅行業者可以組團到大陸去旅遊\n58097\t62224\t請問次長這邊我們是依據哪一條法令來去做對體行業者做這個限制\n69637\t93440\t報告委員,我們在旅行業管理規則49條第19款有說旅行業者要依照觀光署的指導來決定他們相關的作業所以基本上我們是提醒他們說在這段期間既然已經組團3月1號到5月31號還是讓他們組團我請教一下,因為就我得知當時有依照觀光發展條例第53條\n94961\t112130\t的規定說因為這樣子的行為會傷害國家的利益請問你們有這樣子回答我們的旅行員者嗎?那個是最高階的就是說不確定因素可能會損害國家利益但是真正的授權是在66條\n113291\t140743\t好 這就是本席我認為你們第一個沒有跟我們國內的觀光業者充分去溝通因為觀光業者他們的想法是說這是這個有跟針對觀光發展觀光條例第53條是僅限於對旅行業經營的管理它是應該是沒有辦法擴張到禁止旅行團組團去某一些區域是不是已經逾越法定的一些規定你們的想法是不是已經逾越了法定的規定\n142048\t161860\t跟委員報告,《發展觀光條例》第66條,要求授權給交通部,就是目的世界主管機關,訂定相關的管理規則。所以我們在《旅行業管理規則》裡面第49條有相關的規定。那我請問母法的部分是不是因為會有損國家利益?母法是第66條,授權給交通部訂定,66條。\n165700\t167746\t那你剛剛講的那個是法則的部分跟相關的後果對\n172628\t198721\t所以本席要了解是說因為當時你們跟我們所有的觀光旅行業者是說用觀光發展條例第53條這新聞上都可以查得到說有損及國家的利益啊那現在你們是改口說不是用這條嗎跟委員報告53條裡面有三項嘛裡面有一項是損害國家利益損害國家利益因為還沒有還不確定因素發生所以我們是用第66條授權的部分\n200642\t216017\t我認為這樣就是法令的無限的擴張所以本席這邊要拜託我們交通部這邊如果旅行業者如果真的去帶團去大陸旅遊如果真的有損及國家的利益的話\n216598\t217078\t請問我們次長的部分\n237726\t253224\t這個有關於這個觀光旅行業者其實有強烈跟你們表達說當你們3月份開放以後3、4、5、6月尤其4、5、6月它是一個檔期喔很多的觀光業者其實6月份的時候都已經下訂了不管是機票以及大陸的這個\n253985\t254265\t主席\n274539\t288717\t跟委員報告我是不是請觀光署跟您報告一下基本上3月到5月我們讓他如期出團那6月6月跟7月如期6月份他可以提前出團或是併團那如果有辦法提前出團的話要如何補償這些旅行觀光業者的損失\n290489\t316187\t那損失大概估計多少錢?要用什麼樣的經費來去支付?跟委員做一個說明,那3月到5月的部分,我們目前掌握大概是有4000團。我說6月份,不好意思。那6月部分的話,他現在有三個政策。第一個是說,他可以併到3月到5月的這個部分。如果不能併的話,大概有多少?第二個部分是可以,就是說到改變其他的目的地。那第三個就是可以退費解約。解約的損失是誰來補償?\n318291\t321354\t臺灣的觀光業者沒有辦法接受的地方,這些解約需要旅行業者自行負擔。\n334524\t351895\t旅行業者當時已經有在記者會裡面講了他們不排除520的時候來去賴清德總統的就職典禮來給他祝賀來表達他們強烈的訴求那我希望的是說請這個次長的部分一定要跟觀光旅行業者\n352695\t373866\t來做一個很好的溝通跟討論好好的來去補償不要讓這些觀光旅行業者他們沒有辦法得到訴求而在賴清德總統520就職典禮那一天來去做一個恭賀的行為我覺得這是非常不當的所以拜託希望說這個次長這邊因為今天部長不在是不是可以保證我可以做個好好的溝通520的時候不會發生這樣的事情\n376505\t395824\t跟委員報告,觀光署在2月19日有找業者來溝通基本上也要讓業者知道這是兩邊互動的一個過程因為是為了長久旅遊跟觀光發展的長治久安所以我們也期待在3月到5月之間如果陸方有善意的回應,能夠開放團客進來其實這個我們也可以繼續延續下去\n399648\t422757\t所以還是要拜託次長因為這邊你目前為止還是沒有一個明確的回答我說不管是6月份旅行業者的損失或是7、8月份有些特殊地方他們的訂金是如何去做補償所以我想以這樣的回答觀光業者是不會不太會妥協也不太會認同所以520的部分我希望你在520的時候不要像本席講的沒有辦法完成這件事情\n423297\t442865\t那最後也要跟你報告因為今天我們的部長不在其實部長在108年的時候其實有代理過這個交通部長所以我也要跟你這邊有一個統計數字跟你報告在108年的時候臺灣去大陸的旅客人次是230萬人次\n445186\t469826\t大陸來台灣的旅客是將近180萬人次所以我們的邱部長、次長你們應該非常了解其實過去在疫情之前兩岸的旅遊觀光是非常的順暢的所以我希望說部長這邊跟次長這邊可以盡量來努力回復疫情之前兩岸的觀光旅遊的問題好那現在我是不是也可以請我們的主委一起來我有些事要跟你們兩個請問一下\n472407\t490836\t這邊就是我要特別請到兩位都可以一起回答這邊就跟你們請教因為你們現在限制我們台灣可以組團到大陸去旅遊是限制到5月31號所以是拜託部長、次長跟我們敬愛的主委你們是不是可以組一團到大陸去旅遊\n491836\t509527\t順便大家說見面三分情有旅遊就有溝通有溝通就可以大家可以更順暢的去去來做一個未來兩岸的主席不好意思我可以再兩岸如果有溝通如果你們願意有來開放組團由交通部長跟我們的\n510467\t538290\t主委組一個團到我們大陸去觀光順便去溝通討論未來兩岸的部分要如何來促進像疫情之前的順利的話是不是請部長、次長還有我們主委我們組一個團來做一個兩岸破冰之旅請兩位回答你如果願意組團我願意報名參加我大概事實上過去這30幾年我去大陸大概快要20次以上了\n538888\t550357\t那我請問一下,從疫情之後你有去大陸過嗎?沒有對啊,那我的意思是說,既然我們都已經開放了,從3月到5月31號可以開放,那我們是不是請次長也來回答一下?\n556718\t579331\t有沒有這樣的考慮為了我們臺灣兩岸其實我們是沒有禁止自由行去大陸所以我們是可以去參觀那現在問題是他沒有開放團客重點是我的意思是說就是因為沒有開放團客尤其交通部他的一直的表述是說我們就是等待善意的等待陸方這邊的回應所以我認為可以主動出擊\n583073\t583514\t我們有邀請他們的彩線團來臺灣\n605810\t619996\t我請教一下有沒有辦法去大陸去做一個旅行團因為是可以開放團客去大陸嘛有沒有辦法開放就組一個團由次長跟主委組一個團去大陸做參訪\n622575\t641694\t我想這個可能你先去了解一下對岸如果願意讓我去我是所以你不排斥嗎我不是不排斥我剛剛講你如果組得成的話我報名你的團因為我跟你講我們是民意代表是監督單位你們有行政權所以你不排斥嗎我不是不排斥我很樂觀其成\n643171\t666548\t我不是不排斥而已最後還是要拜託我們的主委因為其實我跟您報告剛剛有報告這個人數其實台灣去大陸的人次從疫情之前是有230萬人所以就算你沒有辦法台灣沒辦法開放團客還是有非常多的台灣的人會去大陸所以請你們一定要好好來處理這件事情保障台灣人到大陸旅遊的安全可以嗎\n667008\t667048\t張智倫委員\n","txt":"主席好、各位委員好、各位我們官員好、各位媒體好先敬大家好是不是請我們邱主委跟我們的次長有請主委和次長,謝謝張委員好我先請次長\n首先要先感謝次長因為本席非常關心中和的交通所以目前關於我們中和國道3號有關於這個從土城往中和方向北向的出口其實高空局有非常積極努力來去做一個改善的工作那相信這個進度會蠻快就完成的\n請問次長您知道現在我們台灣的旅行觀光業者有4000多家的業者對於交通部現在從這個農曆年前開放台灣的這個旅行業者可以組團到大陸去旅遊\n請問次長這邊我們是依據哪一條法令來去做對體行業者做這個限制\n報告委員,我們在旅行業管理規則49條第19款有說旅行業者要依照觀光署的指導來決定他們相關的作業所以基本上我們是提醒他們說在這段期間既然已經組團3月1號到5月31號還是讓他們組團我請教一下,因為就我得知當時有依照觀光發展條例第53條\n的規定說因為這樣子的行為會傷害國家的利益請問你們有這樣子回答我們的旅行員者嗎?那個是最高階的就是說不確定因素可能會損害國家利益但是真正的授權是在66條\n好 這就是本席我認為你們第一個沒有跟我們國內的觀光業者充分去溝通因為觀光業者他們的想法是說這是這個有跟針對觀光發展觀光條例第53條是僅限於對旅行業經營的管理它是應該是沒有辦法擴張到禁止旅行團組團去某一些區域是不是已經逾越法定的一些規定你們的想法是不是已經逾越了法定的規定\n跟委員報告,《發展觀光條例》第66條,要求授權給交通部,就是目的世界主管機關,訂定相關的管理規則。所以我們在《旅行業管理規則》裡面第49條有相關的規定。那我請問母法的部分是不是因為會有損國家利益?母法是第66條,授權給交通部訂定,66條。\n那你剛剛講的那個是法則的部分跟相關的後果對\n所以本席要了解是說因為當時你們跟我們所有的觀光旅行業者是說用觀光發展條例第53條這新聞上都可以查得到說有損及國家的利益啊那現在你們是改口說不是用這條嗎跟委員報告53條裡面有三項嘛裡面有一項是損害國家利益損害國家利益因為還沒有還不確定因素發生所以我們是用第66條授權的部分\n我認為這樣就是法令的無限的擴張所以本席這邊要拜託我們交通部這邊如果旅行業者如果真的去帶團去大陸旅遊如果真的有損及國家的利益的話\n請問我們次長的部分\n這個有關於這個觀光旅行業者其實有強烈跟你們表達說當你們3月份開放以後3、4、5、6月尤其4、5、6月它是一個檔期喔很多的觀光業者其實6月份的時候都已經下訂了不管是機票以及大陸的這個\n主席\n跟委員報告我是不是請觀光署跟您報告一下基本上3月到5月我們讓他如期出團那6月6月跟7月如期6月份他可以提前出團或是併團那如果有辦法提前出團的話要如何補償這些旅行觀光業者的損失\n那損失大概估計多少錢?要用什麼樣的經費來去支付?跟委員做一個說明,那3月到5月的部分,我們目前掌握大概是有4000團。我說6月份,不好意思。那6月部分的話,他現在有三個政策。第一個是說,他可以併到3月到5月的這個部分。如果不能併的話,大概有多少?第二個部分是可以,就是說到改變其他的目的地。那第三個就是可以退費解約。解約的損失是誰來補償?\n臺灣的觀光業者沒有辦法接受的地方,這些解約需要旅行業者自行負擔。\n旅行業者當時已經有在記者會裡面講了他們不排除520的時候來去賴清德總統的就職典禮來給他祝賀來表達他們強烈的訴求那我希望的是說請這個次長的部分一定要跟觀光旅行業者\n來做一個很好的溝通跟討論好好的來去補償不要讓這些觀光旅行業者他們沒有辦法得到訴求而在賴清德總統520就職典禮那一天來去做一個恭賀的行為我覺得這是非常不當的所以拜託希望說這個次長這邊因為今天部長不在是不是可以保證我可以做個好好的溝通520的時候不會發生這樣的事情\n跟委員報告,觀光署在2月19日有找業者來溝通基本上也要讓業者知道這是兩邊互動的一個過程因為是為了長久旅遊跟觀光發展的長治久安所以我們也期待在3月到5月之間如果陸方有善意的回應,能夠開放團客進來其實這個我們也可以繼續延續下去\n所以還是要拜託次長因為這邊你目前為止還是沒有一個明確的回答我說不管是6月份旅行業者的損失或是7、8月份有些特殊地方他們的訂金是如何去做補償所以我想以這樣的回答觀光業者是不會不太會妥協也不太會認同所以520的部分我希望你在520的時候不要像本席講的沒有辦法完成這件事情\n那最後也要跟你報告因為今天我們的部長不在其實部長在108年的時候其實有代理過這個交通部長所以我也要跟你這邊有一個統計數字跟你報告在108年的時候臺灣去大陸的旅客人次是230萬人次\n大陸來台灣的旅客是將近180萬人次所以我們的邱部長、次長你們應該非常了解其實過去在疫情之前兩岸的旅遊觀光是非常的順暢的所以我希望說部長這邊跟次長這邊可以盡量來努力回復疫情之前兩岸的觀光旅遊的問題好那現在我是不是也可以請我們的主委一起來我有些事要跟你們兩個請問一下\n這邊就是我要特別請到兩位都可以一起回答這邊就跟你們請教因為你們現在限制我們台灣可以組團到大陸去旅遊是限制到5月31號所以是拜託部長、次長跟我們敬愛的主委你們是不是可以組一團到大陸去旅遊\n順便大家說見面三分情有旅遊就有溝通有溝通就可以大家可以更順暢的去去來做一個未來兩岸的主席不好意思我可以再兩岸如果有溝通如果你們願意有來開放組團由交通部長跟我們的\n主委組一個團到我們大陸去觀光順便去溝通討論未來兩岸的部分要如何來促進像疫情之前的順利的話是不是請部長、次長還有我們主委我們組一個團來做一個兩岸破冰之旅請兩位回答你如果願意組團我願意報名參加我大概事實上過去這30幾年我去大陸大概快要20次以上了\n那我請問一下,從疫情之後你有去大陸過嗎?沒有對啊,那我的意思是說,既然我們都已經開放了,從3月到5月31號可以開放,那我們是不是請次長也來回答一下?\n有沒有這樣的考慮為了我們臺灣兩岸其實我們是沒有禁止自由行去大陸所以我們是可以去參觀那現在問題是他沒有開放團客重點是我的意思是說就是因為沒有開放團客尤其交通部他的一直的表述是說我們就是等待善意的等待陸方這邊的回應所以我認為可以主動出擊\n我們有邀請他們的彩線團來臺灣\n我請教一下有沒有辦法去大陸去做一個旅行團因為是可以開放團客去大陸嘛有沒有辦法開放就組一個團由次長跟主委組一個團去大陸做參訪\n我想這個可能你先去了解一下對岸如果願意讓我去我是所以你不排斥嗎我不是不排斥我剛剛講你如果組得成的話我報名你的團因為我跟你講我們是民意代表是監督單位你們有行政權所以你不排斥嗎我不是不排斥我很樂觀其成\n我不是不排斥而已最後還是要拜託我們的主委因為其實我跟您報告剛剛有報告這個人數其實台灣去大陸的人次從疫情之前是有230萬人所以就算你沒有辦法台灣沒辦法開放團客還是有非常多的台灣的人會去大陸所以請你們一定要好好來處理這件事情保障台灣人到大陸旅遊的安全可以嗎\n張智倫委員\n","vtt":"WEBVTT\n\n00:03.228 --> 00:12.960\n主席好、各位委員好、各位我們官員好、各位媒體好先敬大家好是不是請我們邱主委跟我們的次長有請主委和次長,謝謝張委員好我先請次長\n\n00:19.435 --> 00:37.305\n首先要先感謝次長因為本席非常關心中和的交通所以目前關於我們中和國道3號有關於這個從土城往中和方向北向的出口其實高空局有非常積極努力來去做一個改善的工作那相信這個進度會蠻快就完成的\n\n00:37.725 --> 00:40.547\n請問次長您知道現在我們台灣的旅行觀光業者有4000多家的業者對於交通部現在從這個農曆年前開放台灣的這個旅行業者可以組團到大陸去旅遊\n\n00:58.097 --> 01:02.224\n請問次長這邊我們是依據哪一條法令來去做對體行業者做這個限制\n\n01:09.637 --> 01:33.440\n報告委員,我們在旅行業管理規則49條第19款有說旅行業者要依照觀光署的指導來決定他們相關的作業所以基本上我們是提醒他們說在這段期間既然已經組團3月1號到5月31號還是讓他們組團我請教一下,因為就我得知當時有依照觀光發展條例第53條\n\n01:34.961 --> 01:52.130\n的規定說因為這樣子的行為會傷害國家的利益請問你們有這樣子回答我們的旅行員者嗎?那個是最高階的就是說不確定因素可能會損害國家利益但是真正的授權是在66條\n\n01:53.291 --> 02:20.743\n好這就是本席我認為你們第一個沒有跟我們國內的觀光業者充分去溝通因為觀光業者他們的想法是說這是這個有跟針對觀光發展觀光條例第53條是僅限於對旅行業經營的管理它是應該是沒有辦法擴張到禁止旅行團組團去某一些區域是不是已經逾越法定的一些規定你們的想法是不是已經逾越了法定的規定\n\n02:22.048 --> 02:41.860\n跟委員報告,《發展觀光條例》第66條,要求授權給交通部,就是目的世界主管機關,訂定相關的管理規則。所以我們在《旅行業管理規則》裡面第49條有相關的規定。那我請問母法的部分是不是因為會有損國家利益?母法是第66條,授權給交通部訂定,66條。\n\n02:45.700 --> 02:47.746\n那你剛剛講的那個是法則的部分跟相關的後果對\n\n02:52.628 --> 03:18.721\n所以本席要了解是說因為當時你們跟我們所有的觀光旅行業者是說用觀光發展條例第53條這新聞上都可以查得到說有損及國家的利益啊那現在你們是改口說不是用這條嗎跟委員報告53條裡面有三項嘛裡面有一項是損害國家利益損害國家利益因為還沒有還不確定因素發生所以我們是用第66條授權的部分\n\n03:20.642 --> 03:36.017\n我認為這樣就是法令的無限的擴張所以本席這邊要拜託我們交通部這邊如果旅行業者如果真的去帶團去大陸旅遊如果真的有損及國家的利益的話\n\n03:36.598 --> 03:37.078\n請問我們次長的部分\n\n03:57.726 --> 04:13.224\n這個有關於這個觀光旅行業者其實有強烈跟你們表達說當你們3月份開放以後3、4、5、6月尤其4、5、6月它是一個檔期喔很多的觀光業者其實6月份的時候都已經下訂了不管是機票以及大陸的這個\n\n04:13.985 --> 04:14.265\n主席\n\n04:34.539 --> 04:48.717\n跟委員報告我是不是請觀光署跟您報告一下基本上3月到5月我們讓他如期出團那6月6月跟7月如期6月份他可以提前出團或是併團那如果有辦法提前出團的話要如何補償這些旅行觀光業者的損失\n\n04:50.489 --> 05:16.187\n那損失大概估計多少錢?要用什麼樣的經費來去支付?跟委員做一個說明,那3月到5月的部分,我們目前掌握大概是有4000團。我說6月份,不好意思。那6月部分的話,他現在有三個政策。第一個是說,他可以併到3月到5月的這個部分。如果不能併的話,大概有多少?第二個部分是可以,就是說到改變其他的目的地。那第三個就是可以退費解約。解約的損失是誰來補償?\n\n05:18.291 --> 05:21.354\n臺灣的觀光業者沒有辦法接受的地方,這些解約需要旅行業者自行負擔。\n\n05:34.524 --> 05:51.895\n旅行業者當時已經有在記者會裡面講了他們不排除520的時候來去賴清德總統的就職典禮來給他祝賀來表達他們強烈的訴求那我希望的是說請這個次長的部分一定要跟觀光旅行業者\n\n05:52.695 --> 06:13.866\n來做一個很好的溝通跟討論好好的來去補償不要讓這些觀光旅行業者他們沒有辦法得到訴求而在賴清德總統520就職典禮那一天來去做一個恭賀的行為我覺得這是非常不當的所以拜託希望說這個次長這邊因為今天部長不在是不是可以保證我可以做個好好的溝通520的時候不會發生這樣的事情\n\n06:16.505 --> 06:35.824\n跟委員報告,觀光署在2月19日有找業者來溝通基本上也要讓業者知道這是兩邊互動的一個過程因為是為了長久旅遊跟觀光發展的長治久安所以我們也期待在3月到5月之間如果陸方有善意的回應,能夠開放團客進來其實這個我們也可以繼續延續下去\n\n06:39.648 --> 07:02.757\n所以還是要拜託次長因為這邊你目前為止還是沒有一個明確的回答我說不管是6月份旅行業者的損失或是7、8月份有些特殊地方他們的訂金是如何去做補償所以我想以這樣的回答觀光業者是不會不太會妥協也不太會認同所以520的部分我希望你在520的時候不要像本席講的沒有辦法完成這件事情\n\n07:03.297 --> 07:22.865\n那最後也要跟你報告因為今天我們的部長不在其實部長在108年的時候其實有代理過這個交通部長所以我也要跟你這邊有一個統計數字跟你報告在108年的時候臺灣去大陸的旅客人次是230萬人次\n\n07:25.186 --> 07:49.826\n大陸來台灣的旅客是將近180萬人次所以我們的邱部長、次長你們應該非常了解其實過去在疫情之前兩岸的旅遊觀光是非常的順暢的所以我希望說部長這邊跟次長這邊可以盡量來努力回復疫情之前兩岸的觀光旅遊的問題好那現在我是不是也可以請我們的主委一起來我有些事要跟你們兩個請問一下\n\n07:52.407 --> 08:10.836\n這邊就是我要特別請到兩位都可以一起回答這邊就跟你們請教因為你們現在限制我們台灣可以組團到大陸去旅遊是限制到5月31號所以是拜託部長、次長跟我們敬愛的主委你們是不是可以組一團到大陸去旅遊\n\n08:11.836 --> 08:29.527\n順便大家說見面三分情有旅遊就有溝通有溝通就可以大家可以更順暢的去去來做一個未來兩岸的主席不好意思我可以再兩岸如果有溝通如果你們願意有來開放組團由交通部長跟我們的\n\n08:30.467 --> 08:58.290\n主委組一個團到我們大陸去觀光順便去溝通討論未來兩岸的部分要如何來促進像疫情之前的順利的話是不是請部長、次長還有我們主委我們組一個團來做一個兩岸破冰之旅請兩位回答你如果願意組團我願意報名參加我大概事實上過去這30幾年我去大陸大概快要20次以上了\n\n08:58.888 --> 09:10.357\n那我請問一下,從疫情之後你有去大陸過嗎?沒有對啊,那我的意思是說,既然我們都已經開放了,從3月到5月31號可以開放,那我們是不是請次長也來回答一下?\n\n09:16.718 --> 09:39.331\n有沒有這樣的考慮為了我們臺灣兩岸其實我們是沒有禁止自由行去大陸所以我們是可以去參觀那現在問題是他沒有開放團客重點是我的意思是說就是因為沒有開放團客尤其交通部他的一直的表述是說我們就是等待善意的等待陸方這邊的回應所以我認為可以主動出擊\n\n09:43.073 --> 09:43.514\n我們有邀請他們的彩線團來臺灣\n\n10:05.810 --> 10:19.996\n我請教一下有沒有辦法去大陸去做一個旅行團因為是可以開放團客去大陸嘛有沒有辦法開放就組一個團由次長跟主委組一個團去大陸做參訪\n\n10:22.575 --> 10:41.694\n我想這個可能你先去了解一下對岸如果願意讓我去我是所以你不排斥嗎我不是不排斥我剛剛講你如果組得成的話我報名你的團因為我跟你講我們是民意代表是監督單位你們有行政權所以你不排斥嗎我不是不排斥我很樂觀其成\n\n10:43.171 --> 11:06.548\n我不是不排斥而已最後還是要拜託我們的主委因為其實我跟您報告剛剛有報告這個人數其實台灣去大陸的人次從疫情之前是有230萬人所以就算你沒有辦法台灣沒辦法開放團客還是有非常多的台灣的人會去大陸所以請你們一定要好好來處理這件事情保障台灣人到大陸旅遊的安全可以嗎\n\n11:07.008 --> 11:07.048\n張智倫委員\n\n","segments":[{"start":3.228,"end":12.96,"text":"主席好、各位委員好、各位我們官員好、各位媒體好先敬大家好是不是請我們邱主委跟我們的次長有請主委和次長,謝謝張委員好我先請次長"},{"start":19.435,"end":37.305,"text":"首先要先感謝次長因為本席非常關心中和的交通所以目前關於我們中和國道3號有關於這個從土城往中和方向北向的出口其實高空局有非常積極努力來去做一個改善的工作那相信這個進度會蠻快就完成的"},{"start":37.725,"end":40.547,"text":"請問次長您知道現在我們台灣的旅行觀光業者有4000多家的業者對於交通部現在從這個農曆年前開放台灣的這個旅行業者可以組團到大陸去旅遊"},{"start":58.097,"end":62.224,"text":"請問次長這邊我們是依據哪一條法令來去做對體行業者做這個限制"},{"start":69.637,"end":93.44,"text":"報告委員,我們在旅行業管理規則49條第19款有說旅行業者要依照觀光署的指導來決定他們相關的作業所以基本上我們是提醒他們說在這段期間既然已經組團3月1號到5月31號還是讓他們組團我請教一下,因為就我得知當時有依照觀光發展條例第53條"},{"start":94.961,"end":112.13,"text":"的規定說因為這樣子的行為會傷害國家的利益請問你們有這樣子回答我們的旅行員者嗎?那個是最高階的就是說不確定因素可能會損害國家利益但是真正的授權是在66條"},{"start":113.291,"end":140.743,"text":"好 這就是本席我認為你們第一個沒有跟我們國內的觀光業者充分去溝通因為觀光業者他們的想法是說這是這個有跟針對觀光發展觀光條例第53條是僅限於對旅行業經營的管理它是應該是沒有辦法擴張到禁止旅行團組團去某一些區域是不是已經逾越法定的一些規定你們的想法是不是已經逾越了法定的規定"},{"start":142.048,"end":161.86,"text":"跟委員報告,《發展觀光條例》第66條,要求授權給交通部,就是目的世界主管機關,訂定相關的管理規則。所以我們在《旅行業管理規則》裡面第49條有相關的規定。那我請問母法的部分是不是因為會有損國家利益?母法是第66條,授權給交通部訂定,66條。"},{"start":165.7,"end":167.746,"text":"那你剛剛講的那個是法則的部分跟相關的後果對"},{"start":172.628,"end":198.721,"text":"所以本席要了解是說因為當時你們跟我們所有的觀光旅行業者是說用觀光發展條例第53條這新聞上都可以查得到說有損及國家的利益啊那現在你們是改口說不是用這條嗎跟委員報告53條裡面有三項嘛裡面有一項是損害國家利益損害國家利益因為還沒有還不確定因素發生所以我們是用第66條授權的部分"},{"start":200.642,"end":216.017,"text":"我認為這樣就是法令的無限的擴張所以本席這邊要拜託我們交通部這邊如果旅行業者如果真的去帶團去大陸旅遊如果真的有損及國家的利益的話"},{"start":216.598,"end":217.078,"text":"請問我們次長的部分"},{"start":237.726,"end":253.224,"text":"這個有關於這個觀光旅行業者其實有強烈跟你們表達說當你們3月份開放以後3、4、5、6月尤其4、5、6月它是一個檔期喔很多的觀光業者其實6月份的時候都已經下訂了不管是機票以及大陸的這個"},{"start":253.985,"end":254.265,"text":"主席"},{"start":274.539,"end":288.717,"text":"跟委員報告我是不是請觀光署跟您報告一下基本上3月到5月我們讓他如期出團那6月6月跟7月如期6月份他可以提前出團或是併團那如果有辦法提前出團的話要如何補償這些旅行觀光業者的損失"},{"start":290.489,"end":316.187,"text":"那損失大概估計多少錢?要用什麼樣的經費來去支付?跟委員做一個說明,那3月到5月的部分,我們目前掌握大概是有4000團。我說6月份,不好意思。那6月部分的話,他現在有三個政策。第一個是說,他可以併到3月到5月的這個部分。如果不能併的話,大概有多少?第二個部分是可以,就是說到改變其他的目的地。那第三個就是可以退費解約。解約的損失是誰來補償?"},{"start":318.291,"end":321.354,"text":"臺灣的觀光業者沒有辦法接受的地方,這些解約需要旅行業者自行負擔。"},{"start":334.524,"end":351.895,"text":"旅行業者當時已經有在記者會裡面講了他們不排除520的時候來去賴清德總統的就職典禮來給他祝賀來表達他們強烈的訴求那我希望的是說請這個次長的部分一定要跟觀光旅行業者"},{"start":352.695,"end":373.866,"text":"來做一個很好的溝通跟討論好好的來去補償不要讓這些觀光旅行業者他們沒有辦法得到訴求而在賴清德總統520就職典禮那一天來去做一個恭賀的行為我覺得這是非常不當的所以拜託希望說這個次長這邊因為今天部長不在是不是可以保證我可以做個好好的溝通520的時候不會發生這樣的事情"},{"start":376.505,"end":395.824,"text":"跟委員報告,觀光署在2月19日有找業者來溝通基本上也要讓業者知道這是兩邊互動的一個過程因為是為了長久旅遊跟觀光發展的長治久安所以我們也期待在3月到5月之間如果陸方有善意的回應,能夠開放團客進來其實這個我們也可以繼續延續下去"},{"start":399.648,"end":422.757,"text":"所以還是要拜託次長因為這邊你目前為止還是沒有一個明確的回答我說不管是6月份旅行業者的損失或是7、8月份有些特殊地方他們的訂金是如何去做補償所以我想以這樣的回答觀光業者是不會不太會妥協也不太會認同所以520的部分我希望你在520的時候不要像本席講的沒有辦法完成這件事情"},{"start":423.297,"end":442.865,"text":"那最後也要跟你報告因為今天我們的部長不在其實部長在108年的時候其實有代理過這個交通部長所以我也要跟你這邊有一個統計數字跟你報告在108年的時候臺灣去大陸的旅客人次是230萬人次"},{"start":445.186,"end":469.826,"text":"大陸來台灣的旅客是將近180萬人次所以我們的邱部長、次長你們應該非常了解其實過去在疫情之前兩岸的旅遊觀光是非常的順暢的所以我希望說部長這邊跟次長這邊可以盡量來努力回復疫情之前兩岸的觀光旅遊的問題好那現在我是不是也可以請我們的主委一起來我有些事要跟你們兩個請問一下"},{"start":472.407,"end":490.836,"text":"這邊就是我要特別請到兩位都可以一起回答這邊就跟你們請教因為你們現在限制我們台灣可以組團到大陸去旅遊是限制到5月31號所以是拜託部長、次長跟我們敬愛的主委你們是不是可以組一團到大陸去旅遊"},{"start":491.836,"end":509.527,"text":"順便大家說見面三分情有旅遊就有溝通有溝通就可以大家可以更順暢的去去來做一個未來兩岸的主席不好意思我可以再兩岸如果有溝通如果你們願意有來開放組團由交通部長跟我們的"},{"start":510.467,"end":538.29,"text":"主委組一個團到我們大陸去觀光順便去溝通討論未來兩岸的部分要如何來促進像疫情之前的順利的話是不是請部長、次長還有我們主委我們組一個團來做一個兩岸破冰之旅請兩位回答你如果願意組團我願意報名參加我大概事實上過去這30幾年我去大陸大概快要20次以上了"},{"start":538.888,"end":550.357,"text":"那我請問一下,從疫情之後你有去大陸過嗎?沒有對啊,那我的意思是說,既然我們都已經開放了,從3月到5月31號可以開放,那我們是不是請次長也來回答一下?"},{"start":556.718,"end":579.331,"text":"有沒有這樣的考慮為了我們臺灣兩岸其實我們是沒有禁止自由行去大陸所以我們是可以去參觀那現在問題是他沒有開放團客重點是我的意思是說就是因為沒有開放團客尤其交通部他的一直的表述是說我們就是等待善意的等待陸方這邊的回應所以我認為可以主動出擊"},{"start":583.073,"end":583.514,"text":"我們有邀請他們的彩線團來臺灣"},{"start":605.81,"end":619.996,"text":"我請教一下有沒有辦法去大陸去做一個旅行團因為是可以開放團客去大陸嘛有沒有辦法開放就組一個團由次長跟主委組一個團去大陸做參訪"},{"start":622.575,"end":641.694,"text":"我想這個可能你先去了解一下對岸如果願意讓我去我是所以你不排斥嗎我不是不排斥我剛剛講你如果組得成的話我報名你的團因為我跟你講我們是民意代表是監督單位你們有行政權所以你不排斥嗎我不是不排斥我很樂觀其成"},{"start":643.171,"end":666.548,"text":"我不是不排斥而已最後還是要拜託我們的主委因為其實我跟您報告剛剛有報告這個人數其實台灣去大陸的人次從疫情之前是有230萬人所以就算你沒有辦法台灣沒辦法開放團客還是有非常多的台灣的人會去大陸所以請你們一定要好好來處理這件事情保障台灣人到大陸旅遊的安全可以嗎"},{"start":667.008,"end":667.048,"text":"張智倫委員"}]}}}}