{"id":149419,"url":"https://ivod.ly.gov.tw/Play/Clip/1M/149419","video_url":"https://ivod-lyvod.cdn.hinet.net/vod_1/_definst_/mp4:1MClips/aa454a369d2b172f660e408771a4197e1e2be856f0c9cef9f8ba9b0039caa7a66a1f6f98b4a2bf775ea18f28b6918d91.mp4/playlist.m3u8","委員名稱":"洪申翰","委員發言時間":"12:45:21 - 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\"score\": 0.0}, {\"word\": \"接\", \"start\": 480.367, \"end\": 480.387, \"score\": 0.0}, {\"word\": \"下\", \"start\": 480.387, \"end\": 480.447, \"score\": 0.666}, {\"word\": \"來\"}, {\"word\": \"我\", \"start\": 480.447, \"end\": 480.467, \"score\": 1.0}, {\"word\": \"們\"}, {\"word\": \"請\"}], \"language\": \"zh\"}","srt":"1\n00:00:08,413 --> 00:00:11,055\n主席好,請許部長好,請許部長洪委員好部長,那個你先前受訪的時候講到的這個談話\n\n2\n00:00:22,418 --> 00:00:47,743\n當然我們在媒體上面看起來有引起了一些風波但我必須說其實勞動部這幾年在推動職場友善或防治就業歧視的業務上面我自己是給予肯定的所以我自己也希望接下來勞動部的工作裡面可以繼續秉持過去在推動這個防治就業歧視的像這樣子的一個努力當然我也看到部長也道歉了\n\n3\n00:00:49,130 --> 00:01:17,855\n那我其實想來跟部長討論的是今天關於印度移工的問題其實我想印度移工從印度移工的議題從去年大家社會開始爭議之後如果仔細去看很多民間其實提出來的疑慮其實我自己觀察到這些疑慮其實這個輿論的風向其實有一些轉化這個轉化其實從一開始也許大家對特定的人種會有特定的一些看法不同的看法可是我覺得後面的討論其實我感覺其實大家\n\n4\n00:01:19,615 --> 00:01:43,300\n反而是台灣的移工政策的制度根本的制度的問題大家有疑慮的反而是這件事情那現在台灣社會在引進外籍勞工其實真的跟過去不太一樣我想我知道勞工部這幾年其實在這個政策上面其實遇到很多困難跟挫折其實我覺得有一個很大的原因其實是社會的期待跟過去其實不一樣\n\n5\n00:01:45,720 --> 00:02:09,651\n我必須很誠實的說我覺得現在其實有很多關於移工政策最根本的原因其實是我們政府其實承擔的太少這個承擔的太少其實以至於其實有很多引進移工以後後面該擔的責任就落到僱主這一端僱主如果他擔不起他就會把這個責任希望能夠轉嫁給仲介\n\n6\n00:02:10,868 --> 00:02:11,268\n主要我在想齁這個\n\n7\n00:02:40,764 --> 00:02:51,369\n因為在救福法的規定移工的照顧管理基本上是雇主的責任但我講這個不是說政府就可以免責所以政府應該在如何讓整個\n\n8\n00:02:53,377 --> 00:03:19,012\n部長我等一下會跟你討論這個問題但我要說的事情我其實可以舉幾個例子來跟你說其實現在很多僱主跟移工兩方其實都有一些抱怨跟不滿意的地方是我們在移工相關的業務上面的辦理其實行政上面其實是非常非常複雜的部長你有沒有自己親自辦過相關的業務自己親自我自己沒有提出申請走過你有沒有自己親自辦過但我是一直要求同仁簡化\n\n9\n00:03:23,196 --> 00:03:40,974\n這方面其實我們看到韓國其實已經全面數位化了其實我們台灣也有派員去做韓國去做考察但到目前為止我們還是沒有做好這個簡化的流程跟統合數位化的程度還是相當低還有很多工作其實是沒有完成的我們台灣現在移工的人數70幾萬人對不對75萬人\n\n10\n00:03:44,060 --> 00:04:07,185\n這麼多的人數如果我們業務還是用這個龐雜複雜的方式在進行我們可以想像有多少行政成本必須花在這事情上面所以部長我第一個還是要要求至少就政府可以做的事情上面我們現在到底有多少的文書作業文件的程序其實是有空間可以整合可以統合可以簡化的這部分不能順應民眾不管是雇主端或者是移工端的要求嗎可以嗎\n\n11\n00:04:07,725 --> 00:04:07,965\n其實我們現在70萬、75萬一\n\n12\n00:04:26,286 --> 00:04:51,093\n移工在臺灣其實他遇到各種狀況我知道現在我們的勞發署或者相關各地行政這個地方政府其實有點疲於奔命也沒有辦法來去營運我舉一個例子給你聽這是一個陳情的案件來找我部長你可以看這是他寫給我們的陳情信這個情境是這樣家庭看護工他突然中風了怎麼辦\n\n13\n00:04:52,950 --> 00:05:08,077\n我跟大家跟部長說不管是我們的僱主其實真的是無能為力的狀況部長看一下這封誠心信這是僱主寫給我們的僱主的爸爸中風所以他請了一個外籍看護來照顧這個爸爸後來移工中風了\n\n14\n00:05:09,099 --> 00:05:28,396\n所以他的仲介就跟僱主說最簡單不用擔責任的方法就是把這個移工丟回去他的母國就好了部長你同不同意這樣做你不同意對不對部長如果你不同意接下來他開始要來請求臺灣的政府相關的協助的時候對不起他求助無門\n\n15\n00:05:30,387 --> 00:05:58,971\n他去找地方的社會局地方社會局沒辦法給他幫忙找了勞工局勞工局沒辦法給他幫忙他說我爸爸就是一個中風的人我自己家裡的狀況也不好我要怎麼來去承擔這件事情對不起但是政府沒有給予相關的資源能夠讓他去處理所以我們變成是逼著可能逼著這個僱主你就必須用最廉價最簡單的方法把這移工直接丟回他的母國所以當然台灣可能就會承受在國際上面承受很大的罵名說把移工當作免洗塊\n\n16\n00:06:01,768 --> 00:06:14,839\n部長這就是我說的我們的政府對於責任的承擔太少了最後這個案例是我的辦公室一個一個打電話才把這些相關資源能夠串接起來但我們75萬名的移工每個事情都能靠立委辦公室這樣打嗎部長你覺得呢這個部分我們再來做一些檢討做一些制度的規劃看怎麼樣對一些\n\n17\n00:06:26,021 --> 00:06:55,359\n部長很明顯這些移工在臺灣除了勞動力提供以外他們還是一個人這個人有各種社會性的需求如果我們沒有辦法把這些需求有一個責任擔起來的話只是丟給仲介仲介用最廉價最低成本的方式來處理的話就會衍生很多社會的問題這些社會的問題就會現在讓大家可能看似對印度移工可是其實他不信任的是我們整體的移工制度所以造成的亂象跟憂慮的我覺得很部分的源頭就是來自於這個地方\n\n18\n00:06:56,019 --> 00:07:11,641\n所以部長這是我剛剛跟你說政府應該要在這裡面承擔更多的責任不是把責任丟給雇主一層一層的轉嫁下去這樣是沒有解的這樣民眾對於移工制度是不會有信心的遇到大大小小的問題也一樣會求助無門的\n\n19\n00:07:12,827 --> 00:07:37,023\n部長這是我希望我要請部長我時間不夠了但我要請部長是不是可以針對這個移工的在除了他勞動以外的社會資源的網絡我覺得我們應該有一個檢討跟規劃我們沒有這些支持的資源沒有支持的中心的時候這種事情一再的發生亂象就是會讓大家很有疑慮衍生這一次大家看到這相關的問題\n\n20\n00:07:38,044 --> 00:07:38,805\n我希望部長跟老法署\n\n21\n00:08:00,367 --> 00:08:00,467\n接下來我們請\n\n","tsv":"start\tend\ttext\n8413\t11055\t主席好,請許部長好,請許部長洪委員好部長,那個你先前受訪的時候講到的這個談話\n22418\t47743\t當然我們在媒體上面看起來有引起了一些風波但我必須說其實勞動部這幾年在推動職場友善或防治就業歧視的業務上面我自己是給予肯定的所以我自己也希望接下來勞動部的工作裡面可以繼續秉持過去在推動這個防治就業歧視的像這樣子的一個努力當然我也看到部長也道歉了\n49130\t77855\t那我其實想來跟部長討論的是今天關於印度移工的問題其實我想印度移工從印度移工的議題從去年大家社會開始爭議之後如果仔細去看很多民間其實提出來的疑慮其實我自己觀察到這些疑慮其實這個輿論的風向其實有一些轉化這個轉化其實從一開始也許大家對特定的人種會有特定的一些看法不同的看法可是我覺得後面的討論其實我感覺其實大家\n79615\t103300\t反而是台灣的移工政策的制度根本的制度的問題大家有疑慮的反而是這件事情那現在台灣社會在引進外籍勞工其實真的跟過去不太一樣我想我知道勞工部這幾年其實在這個政策上面其實遇到很多困難跟挫折其實我覺得有一個很大的原因其實是社會的期待跟過去其實不一樣\n105720\t129651\t我必須很誠實的說我覺得現在其實有很多關於移工政策最根本的原因其實是我們政府其實承擔的太少這個承擔的太少其實以至於其實有很多引進移工以後後面該擔的責任就落到僱主這一端僱主如果他擔不起他就會把這個責任希望能夠轉嫁給仲介\n130868\t131268\t主要我在想齁這個\n160764\t171369\t因為在救福法的規定移工的照顧管理基本上是雇主的責任但我講這個不是說政府就可以免責所以政府應該在如何讓整個\n173377\t199012\t部長我等一下會跟你討論這個問題但我要說的事情我其實可以舉幾個例子來跟你說其實現在很多僱主跟移工兩方其實都有一些抱怨跟不滿意的地方是我們在移工相關的業務上面的辦理其實行政上面其實是非常非常複雜的部長你有沒有自己親自辦過相關的業務自己親自我自己沒有提出申請走過你有沒有自己親自辦過但我是一直要求同仁簡化\n203196\t220974\t這方面其實我們看到韓國其實已經全面數位化了其實我們台灣也有派員去做韓國去做考察但到目前為止我們還是沒有做好這個簡化的流程跟統合數位化的程度還是相當低還有很多工作其實是沒有完成的我們台灣現在移工的人數70幾萬人對不對75萬人\n224060\t247185\t這麼多的人數如果我們業務還是用這個龐雜複雜的方式在進行我們可以想像有多少行政成本必須花在這事情上面所以部長我第一個還是要要求至少就政府可以做的事情上面我們現在到底有多少的文書作業文件的程序其實是有空間可以整合可以統合可以簡化的這部分不能順應民眾不管是雇主端或者是移工端的要求嗎可以嗎\n247725\t247965\t其實我們現在70萬、75萬一\n266286\t291093\t移工在臺灣其實他遇到各種狀況我知道現在我們的勞發署或者相關各地行政這個地方政府其實有點疲於奔命也沒有辦法來去營運我舉一個例子給你聽這是一個陳情的案件來找我部長你可以看這是他寫給我們的陳情信這個情境是這樣家庭看護工他突然中風了怎麼辦\n292950\t308077\t我跟大家跟部長說不管是我們的僱主其實真的是無能為力的狀況部長看一下這封誠心信這是僱主寫給我們的僱主的爸爸中風所以他請了一個外籍看護來照顧這個爸爸後來移工中風了\n309099\t328396\t所以他的仲介就跟僱主說最簡單不用擔責任的方法就是把這個移工丟回去他的母國就好了部長你同不同意這樣做你不同意對不對部長如果你不同意接下來他開始要來請求臺灣的政府相關的協助的時候對不起他求助無門\n330387\t358971\t他去找地方的社會局地方社會局沒辦法給他幫忙找了勞工局勞工局沒辦法給他幫忙他說我爸爸就是一個中風的人我自己家裡的狀況也不好我要怎麼來去承擔這件事情對不起但是政府沒有給予相關的資源能夠讓他去處理所以我們變成是逼著可能逼著這個僱主你就必須用最廉價最簡單的方法把這移工直接丟回他的母國所以當然台灣可能就會承受在國際上面承受很大的罵名說把移工當作免洗塊\n361768\t374839\t部長這就是我說的我們的政府對於責任的承擔太少了最後這個案例是我的辦公室一個一個打電話才把這些相關資源能夠串接起來但我們75萬名的移工每個事情都能靠立委辦公室這樣打嗎部長你覺得呢這個部分我們再來做一些檢討做一些制度的規劃看怎麼樣對一些\n386021\t415359\t部長很明顯這些移工在臺灣除了勞動力提供以外他們還是一個人這個人有各種社會性的需求如果我們沒有辦法把這些需求有一個責任擔起來的話只是丟給仲介仲介用最廉價最低成本的方式來處理的話就會衍生很多社會的問題這些社會的問題就會現在讓大家可能看似對印度移工可是其實他不信任的是我們整體的移工制度所以造成的亂象跟憂慮的我覺得很部分的源頭就是來自於這個地方\n416019\t431641\t所以部長這是我剛剛跟你說政府應該要在這裡面承擔更多的責任不是把責任丟給雇主一層一層的轉嫁下去這樣是沒有解的這樣民眾對於移工制度是不會有信心的遇到大大小小的問題也一樣會求助無門的\n432827\t457023\t部長這是我希望我要請部長我時間不夠了但我要請部長是不是可以針對這個移工的在除了他勞動以外的社會資源的網絡我覺得我們應該有一個檢討跟規劃我們沒有這些支持的資源沒有支持的中心的時候這種事情一再的發生亂象就是會讓大家很有疑慮衍生這一次大家看到這相關的問題\n458044\t458805\t我希望部長跟老法署\n480367\t480467\t接下來我們請\n","txt":"主席好,請許部長好,請許部長洪委員好部長,那個你先前受訪的時候講到的這個談話\n當然我們在媒體上面看起來有引起了一些風波但我必須說其實勞動部這幾年在推動職場友善或防治就業歧視的業務上面我自己是給予肯定的所以我自己也希望接下來勞動部的工作裡面可以繼續秉持過去在推動這個防治就業歧視的像這樣子的一個努力當然我也看到部長也道歉了\n那我其實想來跟部長討論的是今天關於印度移工的問題其實我想印度移工從印度移工的議題從去年大家社會開始爭議之後如果仔細去看很多民間其實提出來的疑慮其實我自己觀察到這些疑慮其實這個輿論的風向其實有一些轉化這個轉化其實從一開始也許大家對特定的人種會有特定的一些看法不同的看法可是我覺得後面的討論其實我感覺其實大家\n反而是台灣的移工政策的制度根本的制度的問題大家有疑慮的反而是這件事情那現在台灣社會在引進外籍勞工其實真的跟過去不太一樣我想我知道勞工部這幾年其實在這個政策上面其實遇到很多困難跟挫折其實我覺得有一個很大的原因其實是社會的期待跟過去其實不一樣\n我必須很誠實的說我覺得現在其實有很多關於移工政策最根本的原因其實是我們政府其實承擔的太少這個承擔的太少其實以至於其實有很多引進移工以後後面該擔的責任就落到僱主這一端僱主如果他擔不起他就會把這個責任希望能夠轉嫁給仲介\n主要我在想齁這個\n因為在救福法的規定移工的照顧管理基本上是雇主的責任但我講這個不是說政府就可以免責所以政府應該在如何讓整個\n部長我等一下會跟你討論這個問題但我要說的事情我其實可以舉幾個例子來跟你說其實現在很多僱主跟移工兩方其實都有一些抱怨跟不滿意的地方是我們在移工相關的業務上面的辦理其實行政上面其實是非常非常複雜的部長你有沒有自己親自辦過相關的業務自己親自我自己沒有提出申請走過你有沒有自己親自辦過但我是一直要求同仁簡化\n這方面其實我們看到韓國其實已經全面數位化了其實我們台灣也有派員去做韓國去做考察但到目前為止我們還是沒有做好這個簡化的流程跟統合數位化的程度還是相當低還有很多工作其實是沒有完成的我們台灣現在移工的人數70幾萬人對不對75萬人\n這麼多的人數如果我們業務還是用這個龐雜複雜的方式在進行我們可以想像有多少行政成本必須花在這事情上面所以部長我第一個還是要要求至少就政府可以做的事情上面我們現在到底有多少的文書作業文件的程序其實是有空間可以整合可以統合可以簡化的這部分不能順應民眾不管是雇主端或者是移工端的要求嗎可以嗎\n其實我們現在70萬、75萬一\n移工在臺灣其實他遇到各種狀況我知道現在我們的勞發署或者相關各地行政這個地方政府其實有點疲於奔命也沒有辦法來去營運我舉一個例子給你聽這是一個陳情的案件來找我部長你可以看這是他寫給我們的陳情信這個情境是這樣家庭看護工他突然中風了怎麼辦\n我跟大家跟部長說不管是我們的僱主其實真的是無能為力的狀況部長看一下這封誠心信這是僱主寫給我們的僱主的爸爸中風所以他請了一個外籍看護來照顧這個爸爸後來移工中風了\n所以他的仲介就跟僱主說最簡單不用擔責任的方法就是把這個移工丟回去他的母國就好了部長你同不同意這樣做你不同意對不對部長如果你不同意接下來他開始要來請求臺灣的政府相關的協助的時候對不起他求助無門\n他去找地方的社會局地方社會局沒辦法給他幫忙找了勞工局勞工局沒辦法給他幫忙他說我爸爸就是一個中風的人我自己家裡的狀況也不好我要怎麼來去承擔這件事情對不起但是政府沒有給予相關的資源能夠讓他去處理所以我們變成是逼著可能逼著這個僱主你就必須用最廉價最簡單的方法把這移工直接丟回他的母國所以當然台灣可能就會承受在國際上面承受很大的罵名說把移工當作免洗塊\n部長這就是我說的我們的政府對於責任的承擔太少了最後這個案例是我的辦公室一個一個打電話才把這些相關資源能夠串接起來但我們75萬名的移工每個事情都能靠立委辦公室這樣打嗎部長你覺得呢這個部分我們再來做一些檢討做一些制度的規劃看怎麼樣對一些\n部長很明顯這些移工在臺灣除了勞動力提供以外他們還是一個人這個人有各種社會性的需求如果我們沒有辦法把這些需求有一個責任擔起來的話只是丟給仲介仲介用最廉價最低成本的方式來處理的話就會衍生很多社會的問題這些社會的問題就會現在讓大家可能看似對印度移工可是其實他不信任的是我們整體的移工制度所以造成的亂象跟憂慮的我覺得很部分的源頭就是來自於這個地方\n所以部長這是我剛剛跟你說政府應該要在這裡面承擔更多的責任不是把責任丟給雇主一層一層的轉嫁下去這樣是沒有解的這樣民眾對於移工制度是不會有信心的遇到大大小小的問題也一樣會求助無門的\n部長這是我希望我要請部長我時間不夠了但我要請部長是不是可以針對這個移工的在除了他勞動以外的社會資源的網絡我覺得我們應該有一個檢討跟規劃我們沒有這些支持的資源沒有支持的中心的時候這種事情一再的發生亂象就是會讓大家很有疑慮衍生這一次大家看到這相關的問題\n我希望部長跟老法署\n接下來我們請\n","vtt":"WEBVTT\n\n00:08.413 --> 00:11.055\n主席好,請許部長好,請許部長洪委員好部長,那個你先前受訪的時候講到的這個談話\n\n00:22.418 --> 00:47.743\n當然我們在媒體上面看起來有引起了一些風波但我必須說其實勞動部這幾年在推動職場友善或防治就業歧視的業務上面我自己是給予肯定的所以我自己也希望接下來勞動部的工作裡面可以繼續秉持過去在推動這個防治就業歧視的像這樣子的一個努力當然我也看到部長也道歉了\n\n00:49.130 --> 01:17.855\n那我其實想來跟部長討論的是今天關於印度移工的問題其實我想印度移工從印度移工的議題從去年大家社會開始爭議之後如果仔細去看很多民間其實提出來的疑慮其實我自己觀察到這些疑慮其實這個輿論的風向其實有一些轉化這個轉化其實從一開始也許大家對特定的人種會有特定的一些看法不同的看法可是我覺得後面的討論其實我感覺其實大家\n\n01:19.615 --> 01:43.300\n反而是台灣的移工政策的制度根本的制度的問題大家有疑慮的反而是這件事情那現在台灣社會在引進外籍勞工其實真的跟過去不太一樣我想我知道勞工部這幾年其實在這個政策上面其實遇到很多困難跟挫折其實我覺得有一個很大的原因其實是社會的期待跟過去其實不一樣\n\n01:45.720 --> 02:09.651\n我必須很誠實的說我覺得現在其實有很多關於移工政策最根本的原因其實是我們政府其實承擔的太少這個承擔的太少其實以至於其實有很多引進移工以後後面該擔的責任就落到僱主這一端僱主如果他擔不起他就會把這個責任希望能夠轉嫁給仲介\n\n02:10.868 --> 02:11.268\n主要我在想齁這個\n\n02:40.764 --> 02:51.369\n因為在救福法的規定移工的照顧管理基本上是雇主的責任但我講這個不是說政府就可以免責所以政府應該在如何讓整個\n\n02:53.377 --> 03:19.012\n部長我等一下會跟你討論這個問題但我要說的事情我其實可以舉幾個例子來跟你說其實現在很多僱主跟移工兩方其實都有一些抱怨跟不滿意的地方是我們在移工相關的業務上面的辦理其實行政上面其實是非常非常複雜的部長你有沒有自己親自辦過相關的業務自己親自我自己沒有提出申請走過你有沒有自己親自辦過但我是一直要求同仁簡化\n\n03:23.196 --> 03:40.974\n這方面其實我們看到韓國其實已經全面數位化了其實我們台灣也有派員去做韓國去做考察但到目前為止我們還是沒有做好這個簡化的流程跟統合數位化的程度還是相當低還有很多工作其實是沒有完成的我們台灣現在移工的人數70幾萬人對不對75萬人\n\n03:44.060 --> 04:07.185\n這麼多的人數如果我們業務還是用這個龐雜複雜的方式在進行我們可以想像有多少行政成本必須花在這事情上面所以部長我第一個還是要要求至少就政府可以做的事情上面我們現在到底有多少的文書作業文件的程序其實是有空間可以整合可以統合可以簡化的這部分不能順應民眾不管是雇主端或者是移工端的要求嗎可以嗎\n\n04:07.725 --> 04:07.965\n其實我們現在70萬、75萬一\n\n04:26.286 --> 04:51.093\n移工在臺灣其實他遇到各種狀況我知道現在我們的勞發署或者相關各地行政這個地方政府其實有點疲於奔命也沒有辦法來去營運我舉一個例子給你聽這是一個陳情的案件來找我部長你可以看這是他寫給我們的陳情信這個情境是這樣家庭看護工他突然中風了怎麼辦\n\n04:52.950 --> 05:08.077\n我跟大家跟部長說不管是我們的僱主其實真的是無能為力的狀況部長看一下這封誠心信這是僱主寫給我們的僱主的爸爸中風所以他請了一個外籍看護來照顧這個爸爸後來移工中風了\n\n05:09.099 --> 05:28.396\n所以他的仲介就跟僱主說最簡單不用擔責任的方法就是把這個移工丟回去他的母國就好了部長你同不同意這樣做你不同意對不對部長如果你不同意接下來他開始要來請求臺灣的政府相關的協助的時候對不起他求助無門\n\n05:30.387 --> 05:58.971\n他去找地方的社會局地方社會局沒辦法給他幫忙找了勞工局勞工局沒辦法給他幫忙他說我爸爸就是一個中風的人我自己家裡的狀況也不好我要怎麼來去承擔這件事情對不起但是政府沒有給予相關的資源能夠讓他去處理所以我們變成是逼著可能逼著這個僱主你就必須用最廉價最簡單的方法把這移工直接丟回他的母國所以當然台灣可能就會承受在國際上面承受很大的罵名說把移工當作免洗塊\n\n06:01.768 --> 06:14.839\n部長這就是我說的我們的政府對於責任的承擔太少了最後這個案例是我的辦公室一個一個打電話才把這些相關資源能夠串接起來但我們75萬名的移工每個事情都能靠立委辦公室這樣打嗎部長你覺得呢這個部分我們再來做一些檢討做一些制度的規劃看怎麼樣對一些\n\n06:26.021 --> 06:55.359\n部長很明顯這些移工在臺灣除了勞動力提供以外他們還是一個人這個人有各種社會性的需求如果我們沒有辦法把這些需求有一個責任擔起來的話只是丟給仲介仲介用最廉價最低成本的方式來處理的話就會衍生很多社會的問題這些社會的問題就會現在讓大家可能看似對印度移工可是其實他不信任的是我們整體的移工制度所以造成的亂象跟憂慮的我覺得很部分的源頭就是來自於這個地方\n\n06:56.019 --> 07:11.641\n所以部長這是我剛剛跟你說政府應該要在這裡面承擔更多的責任不是把責任丟給雇主一層一層的轉嫁下去這樣是沒有解的這樣民眾對於移工制度是不會有信心的遇到大大小小的問題也一樣會求助無門的\n\n07:12.827 --> 07:37.023\n部長這是我希望我要請部長我時間不夠了但我要請部長是不是可以針對這個移工的在除了他勞動以外的社會資源的網絡我覺得我們應該有一個檢討跟規劃我們沒有這些支持的資源沒有支持的中心的時候這種事情一再的發生亂象就是會讓大家很有疑慮衍生這一次大家看到這相關的問題\n\n07:38.044 --> 07:38.805\n我希望部長跟老法署\n\n08:00.367 --> 08:00.467\n接下來我們請\n\n","segments":[{"start":8.413,"end":11.055,"text":"主席好,請許部長好,請許部長洪委員好部長,那個你先前受訪的時候講到的這個談話"},{"start":22.418,"end":47.743,"text":"當然我們在媒體上面看起來有引起了一些風波但我必須說其實勞動部這幾年在推動職場友善或防治就業歧視的業務上面我自己是給予肯定的所以我自己也希望接下來勞動部的工作裡面可以繼續秉持過去在推動這個防治就業歧視的像這樣子的一個努力當然我也看到部長也道歉了"},{"start":49.13,"end":77.855,"text":"那我其實想來跟部長討論的是今天關於印度移工的問題其實我想印度移工從印度移工的議題從去年大家社會開始爭議之後如果仔細去看很多民間其實提出來的疑慮其實我自己觀察到這些疑慮其實這個輿論的風向其實有一些轉化這個轉化其實從一開始也許大家對特定的人種會有特定的一些看法不同的看法可是我覺得後面的討論其實我感覺其實大家"},{"start":79.615,"end":103.3,"text":"反而是台灣的移工政策的制度根本的制度的問題大家有疑慮的反而是這件事情那現在台灣社會在引進外籍勞工其實真的跟過去不太一樣我想我知道勞工部這幾年其實在這個政策上面其實遇到很多困難跟挫折其實我覺得有一個很大的原因其實是社會的期待跟過去其實不一樣"},{"start":105.72,"end":129.651,"text":"我必須很誠實的說我覺得現在其實有很多關於移工政策最根本的原因其實是我們政府其實承擔的太少這個承擔的太少其實以至於其實有很多引進移工以後後面該擔的責任就落到僱主這一端僱主如果他擔不起他就會把這個責任希望能夠轉嫁給仲介"},{"start":130.868,"end":131.268,"text":"主要我在想齁這個"},{"start":160.764,"end":171.369,"text":"因為在救福法的規定移工的照顧管理基本上是雇主的責任但我講這個不是說政府就可以免責所以政府應該在如何讓整個"},{"start":173.377,"end":199.012,"text":"部長我等一下會跟你討論這個問題但我要說的事情我其實可以舉幾個例子來跟你說其實現在很多僱主跟移工兩方其實都有一些抱怨跟不滿意的地方是我們在移工相關的業務上面的辦理其實行政上面其實是非常非常複雜的部長你有沒有自己親自辦過相關的業務自己親自我自己沒有提出申請走過你有沒有自己親自辦過但我是一直要求同仁簡化"},{"start":203.196,"end":220.974,"text":"這方面其實我們看到韓國其實已經全面數位化了其實我們台灣也有派員去做韓國去做考察但到目前為止我們還是沒有做好這個簡化的流程跟統合數位化的程度還是相當低還有很多工作其實是沒有完成的我們台灣現在移工的人數70幾萬人對不對75萬人"},{"start":224.06,"end":247.185,"text":"這麼多的人數如果我們業務還是用這個龐雜複雜的方式在進行我們可以想像有多少行政成本必須花在這事情上面所以部長我第一個還是要要求至少就政府可以做的事情上面我們現在到底有多少的文書作業文件的程序其實是有空間可以整合可以統合可以簡化的這部分不能順應民眾不管是雇主端或者是移工端的要求嗎可以嗎"},{"start":247.725,"end":247.965,"text":"其實我們現在70萬、75萬一"},{"start":266.286,"end":291.093,"text":"移工在臺灣其實他遇到各種狀況我知道現在我們的勞發署或者相關各地行政這個地方政府其實有點疲於奔命也沒有辦法來去營運我舉一個例子給你聽這是一個陳情的案件來找我部長你可以看這是他寫給我們的陳情信這個情境是這樣家庭看護工他突然中風了怎麼辦"},{"start":292.95,"end":308.077,"text":"我跟大家跟部長說不管是我們的僱主其實真的是無能為力的狀況部長看一下這封誠心信這是僱主寫給我們的僱主的爸爸中風所以他請了一個外籍看護來照顧這個爸爸後來移工中風了"},{"start":309.099,"end":328.396,"text":"所以他的仲介就跟僱主說最簡單不用擔責任的方法就是把這個移工丟回去他的母國就好了部長你同不同意這樣做你不同意對不對部長如果你不同意接下來他開始要來請求臺灣的政府相關的協助的時候對不起他求助無門"},{"start":330.387,"end":358.971,"text":"他去找地方的社會局地方社會局沒辦法給他幫忙找了勞工局勞工局沒辦法給他幫忙他說我爸爸就是一個中風的人我自己家裡的狀況也不好我要怎麼來去承擔這件事情對不起但是政府沒有給予相關的資源能夠讓他去處理所以我們變成是逼著可能逼著這個僱主你就必須用最廉價最簡單的方法把這移工直接丟回他的母國所以當然台灣可能就會承受在國際上面承受很大的罵名說把移工當作免洗塊"},{"start":361.768,"end":374.839,"text":"部長這就是我說的我們的政府對於責任的承擔太少了最後這個案例是我的辦公室一個一個打電話才把這些相關資源能夠串接起來但我們75萬名的移工每個事情都能靠立委辦公室這樣打嗎部長你覺得呢這個部分我們再來做一些檢討做一些制度的規劃看怎麼樣對一些"},{"start":386.021,"end":415.359,"text":"部長很明顯這些移工在臺灣除了勞動力提供以外他們還是一個人這個人有各種社會性的需求如果我們沒有辦法把這些需求有一個責任擔起來的話只是丟給仲介仲介用最廉價最低成本的方式來處理的話就會衍生很多社會的問題這些社會的問題就會現在讓大家可能看似對印度移工可是其實他不信任的是我們整體的移工制度所以造成的亂象跟憂慮的我覺得很部分的源頭就是來自於這個地方"},{"start":416.019,"end":431.641,"text":"所以部長這是我剛剛跟你說政府應該要在這裡面承擔更多的責任不是把責任丟給雇主一層一層的轉嫁下去這樣是沒有解的這樣民眾對於移工制度是不會有信心的遇到大大小小的問題也一樣會求助無門的"},{"start":432.827,"end":457.023,"text":"部長這是我希望我要請部長我時間不夠了但我要請部長是不是可以針對這個移工的在除了他勞動以外的社會資源的網絡我覺得我們應該有一個檢討跟規劃我們沒有這些支持的資源沒有支持的中心的時候這種事情一再的發生亂象就是會讓大家很有疑慮衍生這一次大家看到這相關的問題"},{"start":458.044,"end":458.805,"text":"我希望部長跟老法署"},{"start":480.367,"end":480.467,"text":"接下來我們請"}]}}}}