{"id":149422,"url":"https://ivod.ly.gov.tw/Play/Clip/1M/149422","video_url":"https://ivod-lyvod.cdn.hinet.net/vod_1/_definst_/mp4:1MClips/aa454a369d2b172fadd59f52590e454b1e2be856f0c9cef9f8ba9b0039caa7a6ab1fa2a3e1be9c325ea18f28b6918d91.mp4/playlist.m3u8","委員名稱":"蔡易餘","委員發言時間":"13:09:50 - 13:15:47","影片長度":"00:05:57","會議時間":"2024-03-06T09:00:00+08:00","會議名稱":"立法院第11屆第1會期社會福利及衛生環境委員會第3次全體委員會議（事由：邀請勞動部部長、外交部、勞動力發展署、衛生福利部、內政部、國家安全局就「我國開放印度移工對本國勞工就業市場之衝擊」進行專題報告，並備質詢。）","meet":{"tmpMeeting":null,"title":"第11屆第1會期社會福利及衛生環境委員會第3次全體委員會議","term":11,"type":"委員會","sessionPeriod":1,"sessionTimes":3,"committees":[26],"id":"委員會-11-1-26-3"},"date":"2024-03-06","duration":357,"end_time":"2024-03-06T13:15:47+08:00","start_time":"2024-03-06T13:09:50+08:00","features":["ai-transcript","gazette"],"type":"Clip","gazette":{"lineno":1624,"blocks":[["蔡委員易餘：（13時9分）謝謝主席，有請勞動部許部長。"],["主席：好，請許部長。"],["許部長銘春：蔡委員好。"],["蔡委員易餘：部長，事實上今天討論的包括印度移工未來是否開放，討論這些事實上就是為了補足臺灣勞動力不足，臺灣的勞動力不足自然有很多因素，其中包括臺灣人就業的選擇，也許現在臺灣人漸漸都比較排斥比較屬於三K產業或是比較勞力密集的工作，這個部分可能需要移工來協助。但是我們在基層看到，我覺得最主要有一個很關鍵的問題，就是臺灣的失聯移工太多了，失聯移工很多，所以事實上在講印度移工會怎樣，我覺得未必，問題主要還是出在失聯移工，失聯移工當然是另外部會所管轄的範圍，但是部長，你有沒有去思考一個問題？我覺得你們真的要認真思考，就是說，你們到底是希望來臺灣的移工人數越來越多，還是希望我們可以有效補足臺灣的勞動力不足？你們的目的是什麼？"],["許部長銘春：就是要補足勞動力不足。"],["蔡委員易餘：我想大家都是這樣的想法，如果在這樣一個想法的推演之下，就像我今天標題寫的，你們為什麼不能同意外勞去兼差？為什麼？比如說，農業缺工，農業缺工是季節性的，他可能一年就那個月在忙而已，除非是畜牧業。你說農業團體真的缺工，過去我們小時候有很多阿嬤是不是都在挖蘆筍？現在都沒人要挖蘆筍了，所以現在種蘆筍的農業就需要工人，可是問題就是做工的時間點不是每年，如果我們可以順勢補足人力，讓一些移工去兼業，畢竟移工來臺灣的目的也是要多賺一點錢，他們來臺灣，對他們來說，有時候休假不是他們的目的，他們想在臺灣短時間內趕快賺錢，然後趕快回到他們自己的國家，所以不管是站在人權的立場，還是解決我們移工勞動力問題的立場，我們就有效管理，讓他們去兼業，至於可以兼業的範圍、可以去兼業的時間，你們再訂辦法就好了嘛。部長，這一塊不能去思考一下嗎？"],["許部長銘春：這個可能要整個重新再檢討，因為……"],["蔡委員易餘：對，我知道，這個當然是比較……"],["許部長銘春：這個牽涉到修法，基本上，開放移工進來當初有一些考量，包括雇主，還有限業，還有包括本國人的就業機會等等……"],["蔡委員易餘：對，限業是一個嘛，所以他們兼業也是要符合規定，這個都你們去設計沒關係，我們不用去自我拘束，然後一直在這個問題裡面一直循環，沒辦法解決問題，事實上有很多的缺工真的就是短時間的，有一點像是讓外勞去賺外快的概念，這一塊如果解決了，就解決了一部分的缺工問題，當然不是全部嘛。"],["許部長銘春：因為我們現在是單一雇主……"],["蔡委員易餘：就是要雇主同意啊。"],["許部長銘春：包含職災責任等等，委員，你的提議我知道，我們再來……"],["蔡委員易餘：這些勞基法都有整套的規定，就是說，在職災的認定，到底怎樣算是工作場所的轉換，我覺得這都是勞基法有規定，只是沒有辦法把這一套法令放在移工部分，我們都一直害怕把這部分放在移工上會不會產生問題，事實上你們都有辦法，你們只要把辦法訂出來，然後落實管理，又解決了一塊問題，而且解決這一塊問題，對於農業有紮實的幫助，你現在推動外展，你現在做特定的農業，然後他們去合作社，然後大家去撿工作，先撿一個月，另外再撿一個月，結果我問很多地方，都撿不出來，解決農業移工問題後來就只能解決畜牧業的問題，因為畜牧業整年都很忙，剩下的部分就很難解決。我們與其再去想開放，還不如去想有效的解決辦法。部長，我覺得你們可以去思考。"],["許部長銘春：好，我再請業務單位再來討論。"],["蔡委員易餘：第二個是比較基層的問題，我們對營造業有開放移工，但是我們有要求他們有一個承攬工程的金額上限，這個金額我不知道怎麼算的，但是如果以我們嘉義縣來說，我們一年超過兩億、甚至一億以上的公共工程沒有那麼多，他們都是做很多小工程，做很多可能規模是幾千萬的小工程，但是就無法累積到這個金額，所以也無法適用這次開放營造業申請移工的資格，他們的小工程無法累積到這樣的量。沒關係，這是細節，有機會我再跟部長討論。"],["許部長銘春：好。"],["蔡委員易餘：以上質詢。我認為移工兼業是可以討論的。"],["許部長銘春：好，我們再討論一下。"],["蔡委員易餘：好。謝謝。"],["許部長銘春：謝謝。"],["主席：謝謝蔡易餘委員的質詢。","接下來我們請鄭正鈐、鄭正鈐、鄭正鈐委員不在。","我們請羅智強委員進行質詢。"]],"agenda":{"page_end":214,"meet_id":"委員會-11-1-26-3","speakers":["王育敏","蘇清泉","林月琴","陳昭姿","陳菁徽","涂權吉","邱鎮軍","王正旭","廖偉翔","黃秀芳","盧縣一","楊曜","劉建國","林淑芬","謝衣鳯","李彥秀","楊瓊瓔","吳思瑤","洪申翰","游顥","洪孟楷","蔡易餘","羅智強","陳瑩","王鴻薇","陳冠廷"],"page_start":125,"meetingDate":["2024-03-06"],"gazette_id":"1130701","agenda_lcidc_ids":["1130701_00004"],"meet_name":"立法院第11屆第1會期社會福利及衛生環境委員會第3次全體委員會議紀錄","content":"邀請勞動部部長、外交部、勞動力發展署、衛生福利部、內政部、國家安全局就「我國開放印度\n移工對本國勞工就業市場之衝擊」進行專題報告，並備質詢","agenda_id":"1130701_00003"}},"transcript":{"id":"149422","pyannote":{"name":"ronny","tool":"pyannote","data":{"url":"https://ivod.ly.gov.tw/Play/Clip/1M/149422","tool":"pyannote","id":"149422-pyannote"},"job_id":"6gZFicEEZOStnK0i","queued_at":"2024-06-02 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\"start\": 341.575, \"end\": 341.595, \"score\": 0.001}, {\"word\": \"蔡\", \"start\": 347.34, \"end\": 347.48, \"score\": 0.856}, {\"word\": \"易\", \"start\": 347.48, \"end\": 347.661, \"score\": 0.874}, {\"word\": \"餘\"}, {\"word\": \"委\", \"start\": 347.661, \"end\": 347.681, \"score\": 0.0}, {\"word\": \"員\"}], \"language\": \"zh\"}","srt":"1\n00:00:06,856 --> 00:00:33,840\n謝謝主席那我們是不是有請我們勞動部我們許部長好請許部長蔡委員好部長那事實上今天討論了包括印度移工未來是否開放那討論這些事實上就是為了要補足臺灣勞動力不足那臺灣的勞動力不足自然有很多因素那其中包括\n\n2\n00:00:36,481 --> 00:00:57,873\n臺灣人的就業的一個選擇也許我們現在漸漸臺灣人都比較排斥於比較屬於3K產業或者是比較勞力密集的那這部分可能需要移工來做一個協助但是我們在基層看到我覺得最主要有一個很關鍵的問題就是臺灣的私聯移工太多\n\n3\n00:01:00,930 --> 00:01:23,522\n所以事實上在講印度移工會怎樣我覺得未必主要還是問題出在失聯移工那失聯移工當然這個是另外部會但是部長你有沒有去思考一個問題就是說你們到底是希望來台灣的外勞人數移工人數越來越多還是希望我們可以有效的補足台灣勞動力不足\n\n4\n00:01:26,377 --> 00:01:42,194\n你們的目的是什麼就是補足勞動力不足我想大家都是這樣的想法那如果在這樣的想法的一個推演之下我感覺就像我今天標題寫的啦你們為什麼不能同意外勞去兼差啦為什麼\n\n5\n00:01:45,698 --> 00:01:56,166\n因為我比如說農業缺工,農業缺工是直接性的,他可能幾年他就去工了,他就去工了,幾年沒工了,所以你要請所謂的農業團體除了他是畜牧業,你說農業團體他真的缺工啊\n\n6\n00:02:01,570 --> 00:02:13,360\n他過去我們世漢的時候,我們很多阿嬤是不是都在台北,台北就是世漢在烤蘿筍嘛,現在都沒人要烤蘿筍,所以現在農業在做蘿筍,就沒人要烤蘿筍,他就需要\n\n7\n00:02:17,984 --> 00:02:40,199\n可是他的問題他的時間點他不是每年嘛那如果我們可以順勢的讓他補足說好讓一些移工他去兼業啊因為移工的目的來台灣他也是要雞賺多錢他們來台灣他們對他們說有時候休假不是他們目的他們想在台灣短時間內趕快賺錢然後趕快回到他們自己的國家\n\n8\n00:02:40,859 --> 00:02:55,533\n所以站在不管是人權的一個立場不管是解決我們移工勞動力的問題我們就有效的管理他們去兼業至於可以兼業的範圍可以去兼業的時間你們再訂辦法就好了嘛\n\n9\n00:02:57,179 --> 00:03:25,509\n部長這一塊不能去思考一下嗎?這個可能要整個再重新再檢討因為這個牽涉到修法啦然後基本上當初當初有一些就是一些考量包括僱主還有現業還有包括對現業是一個嘛所以他們監獄也是要符合是就是說這都可以去設計沒關係就是說我們不用去自我拘束然後一直在這個問題裡面一直在那邊循環沒辦法解決問題\n\n10\n00:03:26,989 --> 00:03:45,767\n事實上有很多的缺工對不對,他真的就是低時間的他有一點像是讓外勞去賺外快的概念可是你這一塊如果解決了你就解決了有很部分的缺工問題當然不是專報啦因為我們現在是單一雇主啦就是要雇主同意阿你現在來做雇主包括職責責任\n\n11\n00:03:49,270 --> 00:04:10,500\n這些勞基法都有整套的就是說好實在認定到底怎樣算是工作場所的一個轉換我覺得都做勞基法有規定只是他沒辦法把這一套法令我們都一直害怕把它放在移工上會不會產生問題事實上這個你們都有辦法你們只要把辦法定出來然後落實管理那又解決一塊問題\n\n12\n00:04:11,901 --> 00:04:37,781\n而且這塊的問題對於農業有扎實的幫助．比現在推動外展．比現在你做特定的農業．然後他們去合作社．然後去大家去撬開．我撬一公位阿寧．我就撬一公位．結果我看起來我問很多地方就撬不出來．解決農業移工後來就做一個．就只能解決在那個．那個畜牧業因為今年沒贏的．剩下的就是很難．\n\n13\n00:04:40,241 --> 00:04:43,266\n我們與其再去想開放還不如去想有效的解決辦法\n\n14\n00:04:45,479 --> 00:05:14,222\n我再請業務單位這邊然後我第二個這個是我們也比較基層有時候說我們營造業我們有開放但是我們有要求他們有一個他們成長工程的金額上限這個金額我不知道怎麼算的但是如果以我們嘉義縣來說我們一年超過兩億甚至一億以上的公共工程是沒有那麼多的\n\n15\n00:05:15,903 --> 00:05:17,687\n無限之多無限之多會變成說這一套我們這樣開放\n\n16\n00:05:21,380 --> 00:05:41,595\n移工變成說他都是做很多小工程他是做好多可能幾千萬幾千萬幾千萬的小工程但是他就無法累積到這個金額所以他也無法去適用到我們這一次開放營造業可以去申請移工變成說他的小工程無法累積到這樣的量這沒關係這細節我再跟部長有機會我們再討論以上諮詢我認為這個移工這部分\n\n17\n00:05:47,340 --> 00:05:47,681\n蔡易餘委員\n\n","tsv":"start\tend\ttext\n6856\t33840\t謝謝主席那我們是不是有請我們勞動部我們許部長好請許部長蔡委員好部長那事實上今天討論了包括印度移工未來是否開放那討論這些事實上就是為了要補足臺灣勞動力不足那臺灣的勞動力不足自然有很多因素那其中包括\n36481\t57873\t臺灣人的就業的一個選擇也許我們現在漸漸臺灣人都比較排斥於比較屬於3K產業或者是比較勞力密集的那這部分可能需要移工來做一個協助但是我們在基層看到我覺得最主要有一個很關鍵的問題就是臺灣的私聯移工太多\n60930\t83522\t所以事實上在講印度移工會怎樣我覺得未必主要還是問題出在失聯移工那失聯移工當然這個是另外部會但是部長你有沒有去思考一個問題就是說你們到底是希望來台灣的外勞人數移工人數越來越多還是希望我們可以有效的補足台灣勞動力不足\n86377\t102194\t你們的目的是什麼就是補足勞動力不足我想大家都是這樣的想法那如果在這樣的想法的一個推演之下我感覺就像我今天標題寫的啦你們為什麼不能同意外勞去兼差啦為什麼\n105698\t116166\t因為我比如說農業缺工,農業缺工是直接性的,他可能幾年他就去工了,他就去工了,幾年沒工了,所以你要請所謂的農業團體除了他是畜牧業,你說農業團體他真的缺工啊\n121570\t133360\t他過去我們世漢的時候,我們很多阿嬤是不是都在台北,台北就是世漢在烤蘿筍嘛,現在都沒人要烤蘿筍,所以現在農業在做蘿筍,就沒人要烤蘿筍,他就需要\n137984\t160199\t可是他的問題他的時間點他不是每年嘛那如果我們可以順勢的讓他補足說好讓一些移工他去兼業啊因為移工的目的來台灣他也是要雞賺多錢他們來台灣他們對他們說有時候休假不是他們目的他們想在台灣短時間內趕快賺錢然後趕快回到他們自己的國家\n160859\t175533\t所以站在不管是人權的一個立場不管是解決我們移工勞動力的問題我們就有效的管理他們去兼業至於可以兼業的範圍可以去兼業的時間你們再訂辦法就好了嘛\n177179\t205509\t部長這一塊不能去思考一下嗎?這個可能要整個再重新再檢討因為這個牽涉到修法啦然後基本上當初當初有一些就是一些考量包括僱主還有現業還有包括對現業是一個嘛所以他們監獄也是要符合是就是說這都可以去設計沒關係就是說我們不用去自我拘束然後一直在這個問題裡面一直在那邊循環沒辦法解決問題\n206989\t225767\t事實上有很多的缺工對不對,他真的就是低時間的他有一點像是讓外勞去賺外快的概念可是你這一塊如果解決了你就解決了有很部分的缺工問題當然不是專報啦因為我們現在是單一雇主啦就是要雇主同意阿你現在來做雇主包括職責責任\n229270\t250500\t這些勞基法都有整套的就是說好實在認定到底怎樣算是工作場所的一個轉換我覺得都做勞基法有規定只是他沒辦法把這一套法令我們都一直害怕把它放在移工上會不會產生問題事實上這個你們都有辦法你們只要把辦法定出來然後落實管理那又解決一塊問題\n251901\t277781\t而且這塊的問題對於農業有扎實的幫助．比現在推動外展．比現在你做特定的農業．然後他們去合作社．然後去大家去撬開．我撬一公位阿寧．我就撬一公位．結果我看起來我問很多地方就撬不出來．解決農業移工後來就做一個．就只能解決在那個．那個畜牧業因為今年沒贏的．剩下的就是很難．\n280241\t283266\t我們與其再去想開放還不如去想有效的解決辦法\n285479\t314222\t我再請業務單位這邊然後我第二個這個是我們也比較基層有時候說我們營造業我們有開放但是我們有要求他們有一個他們成長工程的金額上限這個金額我不知道怎麼算的但是如果以我們嘉義縣來說我們一年超過兩億甚至一億以上的公共工程是沒有那麼多的\n315903\t317687\t無限之多無限之多會變成說這一套我們這樣開放\n321380\t341595\t移工變成說他都是做很多小工程他是做好多可能幾千萬幾千萬幾千萬的小工程但是他就無法累積到這個金額所以他也無法去適用到我們這一次開放營造業可以去申請移工變成說他的小工程無法累積到這樣的量這沒關係這細節我再跟部長有機會我們再討論以上諮詢我認為這個移工這部分\n347340\t347681\t蔡易餘委員\n","txt":"謝謝主席那我們是不是有請我們勞動部我們許部長好請許部長蔡委員好部長那事實上今天討論了包括印度移工未來是否開放那討論這些事實上就是為了要補足臺灣勞動力不足那臺灣的勞動力不足自然有很多因素那其中包括\n臺灣人的就業的一個選擇也許我們現在漸漸臺灣人都比較排斥於比較屬於3K產業或者是比較勞力密集的那這部分可能需要移工來做一個協助但是我們在基層看到我覺得最主要有一個很關鍵的問題就是臺灣的私聯移工太多\n所以事實上在講印度移工會怎樣我覺得未必主要還是問題出在失聯移工那失聯移工當然這個是另外部會但是部長你有沒有去思考一個問題就是說你們到底是希望來台灣的外勞人數移工人數越來越多還是希望我們可以有效的補足台灣勞動力不足\n你們的目的是什麼就是補足勞動力不足我想大家都是這樣的想法那如果在這樣的想法的一個推演之下我感覺就像我今天標題寫的啦你們為什麼不能同意外勞去兼差啦為什麼\n因為我比如說農業缺工,農業缺工是直接性的,他可能幾年他就去工了,他就去工了,幾年沒工了,所以你要請所謂的農業團體除了他是畜牧業,你說農業團體他真的缺工啊\n他過去我們世漢的時候,我們很多阿嬤是不是都在台北,台北就是世漢在烤蘿筍嘛,現在都沒人要烤蘿筍,所以現在農業在做蘿筍,就沒人要烤蘿筍,他就需要\n可是他的問題他的時間點他不是每年嘛那如果我們可以順勢的讓他補足說好讓一些移工他去兼業啊因為移工的目的來台灣他也是要雞賺多錢他們來台灣他們對他們說有時候休假不是他們目的他們想在台灣短時間內趕快賺錢然後趕快回到他們自己的國家\n所以站在不管是人權的一個立場不管是解決我們移工勞動力的問題我們就有效的管理他們去兼業至於可以兼業的範圍可以去兼業的時間你們再訂辦法就好了嘛\n部長這一塊不能去思考一下嗎?這個可能要整個再重新再檢討因為這個牽涉到修法啦然後基本上當初當初有一些就是一些考量包括僱主還有現業還有包括對現業是一個嘛所以他們監獄也是要符合是就是說這都可以去設計沒關係就是說我們不用去自我拘束然後一直在這個問題裡面一直在那邊循環沒辦法解決問題\n事實上有很多的缺工對不對,他真的就是低時間的他有一點像是讓外勞去賺外快的概念可是你這一塊如果解決了你就解決了有很部分的缺工問題當然不是專報啦因為我們現在是單一雇主啦就是要雇主同意阿你現在來做雇主包括職責責任\n這些勞基法都有整套的就是說好實在認定到底怎樣算是工作場所的一個轉換我覺得都做勞基法有規定只是他沒辦法把這一套法令我們都一直害怕把它放在移工上會不會產生問題事實上這個你們都有辦法你們只要把辦法定出來然後落實管理那又解決一塊問題\n而且這塊的問題對於農業有扎實的幫助．比現在推動外展．比現在你做特定的農業．然後他們去合作社．然後去大家去撬開．我撬一公位阿寧．我就撬一公位．結果我看起來我問很多地方就撬不出來．解決農業移工後來就做一個．就只能解決在那個．那個畜牧業因為今年沒贏的．剩下的就是很難．\n我們與其再去想開放還不如去想有效的解決辦法\n我再請業務單位這邊然後我第二個這個是我們也比較基層有時候說我們營造業我們有開放但是我們有要求他們有一個他們成長工程的金額上限這個金額我不知道怎麼算的但是如果以我們嘉義縣來說我們一年超過兩億甚至一億以上的公共工程是沒有那麼多的\n無限之多無限之多會變成說這一套我們這樣開放\n移工變成說他都是做很多小工程他是做好多可能幾千萬幾千萬幾千萬的小工程但是他就無法累積到這個金額所以他也無法去適用到我們這一次開放營造業可以去申請移工變成說他的小工程無法累積到這樣的量這沒關係這細節我再跟部長有機會我們再討論以上諮詢我認為這個移工這部分\n蔡易餘委員\n","vtt":"WEBVTT\n\n00:06.856 --> 00:33.840\n謝謝主席那我們是不是有請我們勞動部我們許部長好請許部長蔡委員好部長那事實上今天討論了包括印度移工未來是否開放那討論這些事實上就是為了要補足臺灣勞動力不足那臺灣的勞動力不足自然有很多因素那其中包括\n\n00:36.481 --> 00:57.873\n臺灣人的就業的一個選擇也許我們現在漸漸臺灣人都比較排斥於比較屬於3K產業或者是比較勞力密集的那這部分可能需要移工來做一個協助但是我們在基層看到我覺得最主要有一個很關鍵的問題就是臺灣的私聯移工太多\n\n01:00.930 --> 01:23.522\n所以事實上在講印度移工會怎樣我覺得未必主要還是問題出在失聯移工那失聯移工當然這個是另外部會但是部長你有沒有去思考一個問題就是說你們到底是希望來台灣的外勞人數移工人數越來越多還是希望我們可以有效的補足台灣勞動力不足\n\n01:26.377 --> 01:42.194\n你們的目的是什麼就是補足勞動力不足我想大家都是這樣的想法那如果在這樣的想法的一個推演之下我感覺就像我今天標題寫的啦你們為什麼不能同意外勞去兼差啦為什麼\n\n01:45.698 --> 01:56.166\n因為我比如說農業缺工,農業缺工是直接性的,他可能幾年他就去工了,他就去工了,幾年沒工了,所以你要請所謂的農業團體除了他是畜牧業,你說農業團體他真的缺工啊\n\n02:01.570 --> 02:13.360\n他過去我們世漢的時候,我們很多阿嬤是不是都在台北,台北就是世漢在烤蘿筍嘛,現在都沒人要烤蘿筍,所以現在農業在做蘿筍,就沒人要烤蘿筍,他就需要\n\n02:17.984 --> 02:40.199\n可是他的問題他的時間點他不是每年嘛那如果我們可以順勢的讓他補足說好讓一些移工他去兼業啊因為移工的目的來台灣他也是要雞賺多錢他們來台灣他們對他們說有時候休假不是他們目的他們想在台灣短時間內趕快賺錢然後趕快回到他們自己的國家\n\n02:40.859 --> 02:55.533\n所以站在不管是人權的一個立場不管是解決我們移工勞動力的問題我們就有效的管理他們去兼業至於可以兼業的範圍可以去兼業的時間你們再訂辦法就好了嘛\n\n02:57.179 --> 03:25.509\n部長這一塊不能去思考一下嗎?這個可能要整個再重新再檢討因為這個牽涉到修法啦然後基本上當初當初有一些就是一些考量包括僱主還有現業還有包括對現業是一個嘛所以他們監獄也是要符合是就是說這都可以去設計沒關係就是說我們不用去自我拘束然後一直在這個問題裡面一直在那邊循環沒辦法解決問題\n\n03:26.989 --> 03:45.767\n事實上有很多的缺工對不對,他真的就是低時間的他有一點像是讓外勞去賺外快的概念可是你這一塊如果解決了你就解決了有很部分的缺工問題當然不是專報啦因為我們現在是單一雇主啦就是要雇主同意阿你現在來做雇主包括職責責任\n\n03:49.270 --> 04:10.500\n這些勞基法都有整套的就是說好實在認定到底怎樣算是工作場所的一個轉換我覺得都做勞基法有規定只是他沒辦法把這一套法令我們都一直害怕把它放在移工上會不會產生問題事實上這個你們都有辦法你們只要把辦法定出來然後落實管理那又解決一塊問題\n\n04:11.901 --> 04:37.781\n而且這塊的問題對於農業有扎實的幫助．比現在推動外展．比現在你做特定的農業．然後他們去合作社．然後去大家去撬開．我撬一公位阿寧．我就撬一公位．結果我看起來我問很多地方就撬不出來．解決農業移工後來就做一個．就只能解決在那個．那個畜牧業因為今年沒贏的．剩下的就是很難．\n\n04:40.241 --> 04:43.266\n我們與其再去想開放還不如去想有效的解決辦法\n\n04:45.479 --> 05:14.222\n我再請業務單位這邊然後我第二個這個是我們也比較基層有時候說我們營造業我們有開放但是我們有要求他們有一個他們成長工程的金額上限這個金額我不知道怎麼算的但是如果以我們嘉義縣來說我們一年超過兩億甚至一億以上的公共工程是沒有那麼多的\n\n05:15.903 --> 05:17.687\n無限之多無限之多會變成說這一套我們這樣開放\n\n05:21.380 --> 05:41.595\n移工變成說他都是做很多小工程他是做好多可能幾千萬幾千萬幾千萬的小工程但是他就無法累積到這個金額所以他也無法去適用到我們這一次開放營造業可以去申請移工變成說他的小工程無法累積到這樣的量這沒關係這細節我再跟部長有機會我們再討論以上諮詢我認為這個移工這部分\n\n05:47.340 --> 05:47.681\n蔡易餘委員\n\n","segments":[{"start":6.856,"end":33.84,"text":"謝謝主席那我們是不是有請我們勞動部我們許部長好請許部長蔡委員好部長那事實上今天討論了包括印度移工未來是否開放那討論這些事實上就是為了要補足臺灣勞動力不足那臺灣的勞動力不足自然有很多因素那其中包括"},{"start":36.481,"end":57.873,"text":"臺灣人的就業的一個選擇也許我們現在漸漸臺灣人都比較排斥於比較屬於3K產業或者是比較勞力密集的那這部分可能需要移工來做一個協助但是我們在基層看到我覺得最主要有一個很關鍵的問題就是臺灣的私聯移工太多"},{"start":60.93,"end":83.522,"text":"所以事實上在講印度移工會怎樣我覺得未必主要還是問題出在失聯移工那失聯移工當然這個是另外部會但是部長你有沒有去思考一個問題就是說你們到底是希望來台灣的外勞人數移工人數越來越多還是希望我們可以有效的補足台灣勞動力不足"},{"start":86.377,"end":102.194,"text":"你們的目的是什麼就是補足勞動力不足我想大家都是這樣的想法那如果在這樣的想法的一個推演之下我感覺就像我今天標題寫的啦你們為什麼不能同意外勞去兼差啦為什麼"},{"start":105.698,"end":116.166,"text":"因為我比如說農業缺工,農業缺工是直接性的,他可能幾年他就去工了,他就去工了,幾年沒工了,所以你要請所謂的農業團體除了他是畜牧業,你說農業團體他真的缺工啊"},{"start":121.57,"end":133.36,"text":"他過去我們世漢的時候,我們很多阿嬤是不是都在台北,台北就是世漢在烤蘿筍嘛,現在都沒人要烤蘿筍,所以現在農業在做蘿筍,就沒人要烤蘿筍,他就需要"},{"start":137.984,"end":160.199,"text":"可是他的問題他的時間點他不是每年嘛那如果我們可以順勢的讓他補足說好讓一些移工他去兼業啊因為移工的目的來台灣他也是要雞賺多錢他們來台灣他們對他們說有時候休假不是他們目的他們想在台灣短時間內趕快賺錢然後趕快回到他們自己的國家"},{"start":160.859,"end":175.533,"text":"所以站在不管是人權的一個立場不管是解決我們移工勞動力的問題我們就有效的管理他們去兼業至於可以兼業的範圍可以去兼業的時間你們再訂辦法就好了嘛"},{"start":177.179,"end":205.509,"text":"部長這一塊不能去思考一下嗎?這個可能要整個再重新再檢討因為這個牽涉到修法啦然後基本上當初當初有一些就是一些考量包括僱主還有現業還有包括對現業是一個嘛所以他們監獄也是要符合是就是說這都可以去設計沒關係就是說我們不用去自我拘束然後一直在這個問題裡面一直在那邊循環沒辦法解決問題"},{"start":206.989,"end":225.767,"text":"事實上有很多的缺工對不對,他真的就是低時間的他有一點像是讓外勞去賺外快的概念可是你這一塊如果解決了你就解決了有很部分的缺工問題當然不是專報啦因為我們現在是單一雇主啦就是要雇主同意阿你現在來做雇主包括職責責任"},{"start":229.27,"end":250.5,"text":"這些勞基法都有整套的就是說好實在認定到底怎樣算是工作場所的一個轉換我覺得都做勞基法有規定只是他沒辦法把這一套法令我們都一直害怕把它放在移工上會不會產生問題事實上這個你們都有辦法你們只要把辦法定出來然後落實管理那又解決一塊問題"},{"start":251.901,"end":277.781,"text":"而且這塊的問題對於農業有扎實的幫助．比現在推動外展．比現在你做特定的農業．然後他們去合作社．然後去大家去撬開．我撬一公位阿寧．我就撬一公位．結果我看起來我問很多地方就撬不出來．解決農業移工後來就做一個．就只能解決在那個．那個畜牧業因為今年沒贏的．剩下的就是很難．"},{"start":280.241,"end":283.266,"text":"我們與其再去想開放還不如去想有效的解決辦法"},{"start":285.479,"end":314.222,"text":"我再請業務單位這邊然後我第二個這個是我們也比較基層有時候說我們營造業我們有開放但是我們有要求他們有一個他們成長工程的金額上限這個金額我不知道怎麼算的但是如果以我們嘉義縣來說我們一年超過兩億甚至一億以上的公共工程是沒有那麼多的"},{"start":315.903,"end":317.687,"text":"無限之多無限之多會變成說這一套我們這樣開放"},{"start":321.38,"end":341.595,"text":"移工變成說他都是做很多小工程他是做好多可能幾千萬幾千萬幾千萬的小工程但是他就無法累積到這個金額所以他也無法去適用到我們這一次開放營造業可以去申請移工變成說他的小工程無法累積到這樣的量這沒關係這細節我再跟部長有機會我們再討論以上諮詢我認為這個移工這部分"},{"start":347.34,"end":347.681,"text":"蔡易餘委員"}]}}}}