{"id":149426,"url":"https://ivod.ly.gov.tw/Play/Clip/1M/149426","video_url":"https://ivod-lyvod.cdn.hinet.net/vod_1/_definst_/mp4:1MClips/aa454a369d2b172f0fd6e71cfaa57250b97b2be93641c974f8ba9b0039caa7a60d89127cd4efb96d5ea18f28b6918d91.mp4/playlist.m3u8","委員名稱":"鄭正鈐","委員發言時間":"12:43:35 - 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\"就\", \"start\": 257.996, \"end\": 258.416, \"score\": 0.857}, {\"word\": \"這\"}, {\"word\": \"邊\"}, {\"word\": \"我\", \"start\": 258.416, \"end\": 258.516, \"score\": 0.989}, {\"word\": \"就\", \"start\": 258.516, \"end\": 258.976, \"score\": 0.92}, {\"word\": \"給\"}, {\"word\": \"另\", \"start\": 258.976, \"end\": 259.137, \"score\": 0.99}, {\"word\": \"外\", \"start\": 259.137, \"end\": 259.377, \"score\": 1.0}, {\"word\": \"再\", \"start\": 259.377, \"end\": 259.817, \"score\": 0.957}, {\"word\": \"跟\", \"start\": 259.817, \"end\": 259.997, \"score\": 0.944}, {\"word\": \"那\", \"start\": 259.997, \"end\": 260.878, \"score\": 0.944}, {\"word\": \"個\"}, {\"word\": \"主\", \"start\": 260.878, \"end\": 261.038, \"score\": 0.864}, {\"word\": \"委\", \"start\": 261.038, \"end\": 261.199, \"score\": 0.73}, {\"word\": \"這\"}, {\"word\": \"邊\"}, {\"word\": \"再\", \"start\": 261.199, \"end\": 261.359, \"score\": 0.845}, {\"word\": \"看\", \"start\": 261.359, \"end\": 261.519, \"score\": 0.986}, {\"word\": \"一\", \"start\": 261.519, \"end\": 262.019, \"score\": 0.919}, {\"word\": \"個\"}, {\"word\": \"數\"}, {\"word\": \"字\", \"start\": 262.019, \"end\": 262.8, \"score\": 0.972}, {\"word\": \"就\", \"start\": 262.8, \"end\": 262.96, \"score\": 0.865}, {\"word\": \"是\", \"start\": 262.96, \"end\": 263.461, \"score\": 0.997}, {\"word\": \"我\", \"start\": 263.461, \"end\": 264.281, \"score\": 0.959}, {\"word\": \"們\"}, {\"word\": \"直\", \"start\": 264.281, \"end\": 264.442, \"score\": 0.994}, {\"word\": \"接\", \"start\": 264.442, \"end\": 264.862, \"score\": 0.933}, {\"word\": \"來\"}, {\"word\": \"看\", \"start\": 264.862, \"end\": 265.082, \"score\": 0.984}, {\"word\": \"一\", \"start\": 265.082, \"end\": 265.222, \"score\": 0.858}, {\"word\": \"下\", \"start\": 265.222, \"end\": 265.783, \"score\": 0.928}, {\"word\": \"就\", \"start\": 265.783, \"end\": 265.963, \"score\": 0.89}, {\"word\": \"是\", \"start\": 265.963, \"end\": 266.544, \"score\": 0.965}, {\"word\": \"飯\"}, {\"word\": 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00:00:48,964\n上禮拜這個禮拜一的時候我發現大家都把焦點放在那個海洋委員會反而對陸委會這邊比較少關注到可是我覺得這兩個問題都跟陸委會有非常非常大的影響說實話而且有關聯性就是說陸委會其實能夠影響到這兩件事情我覺得非常的關鍵那我們先看一下整個\n\n3\n00:00:50,865 --> 00:01:06,066\n人類歷史上面其實很多的戰爭很多的意外都是出現於意外並不是真的說我準備要打這場仗才去打這場仗所以我們其實對於整個驚嚇事件我們也擔心會危及到兩岸的一個關係的一個發展\n\n4\n00:01:07,908 --> 00:01:31,841\n那麼今天針對旅遊團這個部分的時候那我首先先簡單講一下那之前那個邱主委曾經說過就是必須要對岸也開放來台那我們這邊才對等的方式去做這樣子的一個方式否則就按照國安的問題就先把它停下來我這樣理解有沒有錯後面的部分沒有8月宣布的時候就是依對等原則\n\n5\n00:01:32,261 --> 00:01:32,781\n理解理解理解\n\n6\n00:01:50,388 --> 00:02:08,088\n所以我覺得這邊這個邏輯因為我覺得我們能夠掌握就是掌握在我們手上的資源跟手上的球所以我在想說哇那如果說大陸方面如果說都沒有善意回應的時候我們是不是以後就永遠其實都不要有大陸團到大陸去你的邏輯就變成這樣子對不對\n\n7\n00:02:09,629 --> 00:02:36,826\n委員可能沒有注意到我中間其實有在某次的受訪我有提到如果大陸不要的話我們對大陸的政策我們有自己的節奏跟我們的基層所以節奏的時候就有可能就是都不開放啦還是說什麼時候會開放如果大陸沒有開放你覺得什麼時候會開放因為今天我想委員都很清楚兩岸的情勢的變化不只是在政治、軍事、經濟還有其他的這個\n\n8\n00:02:37,987 --> 00:02:39,449\n所以現在你講很多可是那個部分也不是我們能夠掌握的\n\n9\n00:02:55,069 --> 00:03:14,228\n現在我們掌握的狀態,我就直接講一下,旅遊業到我們辦公室來陳情了,他們就講說如果說陸委會這邊還是卡著,交通部這邊還是卡著,不能讓出團去5月31號之後,6月1號之後沒有辦法繼續出團的時候,他們準備5月20號要上街頭啦\n\n10\n00:03:15,410 --> 00:03:17,612\n臺灣的尊嚴很重要兩岸對等也很重要可是我要講一件事情我們看到\n\n11\n00:03:32,429 --> 00:03:40,237\n大陸來台的人數統計跟台灣去大陸的人數統計高點大概都在417萬跟418萬左右差不多兩岸進去的高點大概都差不多可是時間點不太一樣大陸來台灣的高點大概是在2015年左右\n\n12\n00:03:51,528 --> 00:04:05,783\n台灣去大陸的高點大概在2018年左右大概是這樣子我們看到統計數字類似這樣那我知道有不同的統計數字它有不同的狀態可是我要講的狀態是當417萬的大陸人到台灣來的時候對台灣具體產生了一些影響\n\n13\n00:04:13,611 --> 00:04:28,565\n418萬台灣人到大陸去的時候對大陸產生的影響非常的小那我就這邊我就給另外再跟那個主委這邊再看一個數字就是我們直接來看一下就是飯店業者他們的一個數字出來\n\n14\n00:04:32,447 --> 00:04:53,697\n我們看到的一個情況就是觀光旅館的租用率跟國際觀光旅館的租用率的狀態還有整個一般旅館的租用率我們這三個部分算起來我們就只看觀光旅館的租用率就是國際加一般平均起來的時候在103年的時候高點大概是71.8%啦大概有7成多的一個平均的一個住房率\n\n15\n00:04:54,837 --> 00:05:22,543\n當我們在變得比較少的時候呢就大陸對台灣我們粗略來看的時候對整個住房率這個指標來看的時候大概影響10%大概影響10%的一個狀態那我這邊要講的一個情況就是為什麼旅遊業者他們很跳腳的原因就是這樣子就覺得說整個執政黨現在對於整個相關的政策感覺是兒戲去年8月的時候可以開放說要開放3月1號要開放就是赴大陸\n\n16\n00:05:24,143 --> 00:05:36,368\n臺灣的遊客赴陸團組團去大陸旅遊然後選完了之後呢然後又改變了那現在只能開放到5月31號所以他們很跳腳所以他們準備要上街頭那我覺得以\n\n17\n00:05:41,223 --> 00:06:08,980\n旅遊業者來講的時候他們如果會要上街頭肯定是他們生存受到影響了嘛那他們也直接在跟我講他們也在跟我講的時候講得更是義憤填膺啊就很多那個髒話都飆出來了髒話都飆出來那他們覺得說現在執行黨憑什麼東西能夠讓大家不能夠出團去大陸覺得交通部這樣子的一個依法在哪邊交通部今天我就重點不在因為我覺得我為什麼一開始講到\n\n18\n00:06:10,521 --> 00:06:11,922\n其實交通部之前講到是對觀光條例的部分\n\n19\n00:06:30,375 --> 00:06:46,726\n關於條例部分的時候,我們認為按照憲法第10條保障的人民有居住遷徙的自由當中,包括大法官釋字第443號、454號、558號當中,都很清楚提到了人民有任意移居或旅行各地的權利。\n\n20\n00:06:48,191 --> 00:07:04,466\n如果要對人民的自由權利加以限制,必須要符合憲法第23條所定的必要程度,並且以法律定之,或者經立法機關明確授權,由行政機關以命令定之。\n\n21\n00:07:05,006 --> 00:07:21,341\n所以對於這個部分來說的時候我們認為現在交通部這邊就直接下令禁止台灣人民組團到大陸去旅遊我們認為其實是違反了憲法對人民居住千里自由的保障\n\n22\n00:07:22,952 --> 00:07:41,783\n我認為陸委會主委這個角色很重要就是我剛剛一開始提到說兩岸的一個關係要走向一個和平的一個面對還是可能會有意外發生我覺得陸委會也許都不是主要的\n\n23\n00:07:42,603 --> 00:08:03,891\n第一線的一個單位像禮拜一主要大家都針對海洋委員會那今天可能大家都針對交通部或等等可是我覺得這跟兩岸有關的如果會絕對難持其責任就是你的責任的部分我覺得一定要擔起來所以今天我們講的某個部分還比較軟性一點\n\n24\n00:08:04,471 --> 00:08:07,392\n8月份的新聞已經發佈了那前提就已經講了雙方應該要對等互惠吧\n\n25\n00:08:32,526 --> 00:08:47,092\n所以我剛一開始就提到所謂的對等這概念來說的時候他們到現在為止禁止團客到我們這邊來啊理解可是我們現在等於是打我們自己的旅遊業者打我們自己的小孩給對方看我們綁架我們的旅遊業者對方就能夠妥協這個情況很奇怪這個情況很奇怪啊理解可是問題是在選後的時候又做了一個轉折啊\n\n26\n00:08:58,917 --> 00:08:59,178\n主席主委\n\n","tsv":"start\tend\ttext\n1220\t4461\t謝謝主席,我想請一下邱主委有請邱主委主委好首先要謝謝主席今天召開針對赴陸旅遊團停招這個事情我覺得連著禮拜一的時候跟驚嚇撞船事件當中的一個事情\n26467\t48964\t上禮拜 這個禮拜一的時候我發現大家都把焦點放在那個海洋委員會反而對陸委會這邊比較少關注到可是我覺得這兩個問題都跟陸委會有非常非常大的影響說實話而且有關聯性就是說陸委會其實能夠影響到這兩件事情我覺得非常的關鍵那我們先看一下整個\n50865\t66066\t人類歷史上面其實很多的戰爭很多的意外都是出現於意外並不是真的說我準備要打這場仗才去打這場仗所以我們其實對於整個驚嚇事件我們也擔心會危及到兩岸的一個關係的一個發展\n67908\t91841\t那麼今天針對旅遊團這個部分的時候那我首先先簡單講一下那之前那個邱主委曾經說過就是必須要對岸也開放來台那我們這邊才對等的方式去做這樣子的一個方式否則就按照國安的問題就先把它停下來我這樣理解有沒有錯後面的部分沒有8月宣布的時候就是依對等原則\n92261\t92781\t理解 理解 理解\n110388\t128088\t所以我覺得這邊這個邏輯因為我覺得我們能夠掌握就是掌握在我們手上的資源跟手上的球所以我在想說哇那如果說大陸方面如果說都沒有善意回應的時候我們是不是以後就永遠其實都不要有大陸團到大陸去你的邏輯就變成這樣子對不對\n129629\t156826\t委員可能沒有注意到我中間其實有在某次的受訪我有提到如果大陸不要的話我們對大陸的政策我們有自己的節奏跟我們的基層所以節奏的時候就有可能就是都不開放啦還是說什麼時候會開放如果大陸沒有開放你覺得什麼時候會開放因為今天我想委員都很清楚兩岸的情勢的變化不只是在政治、軍事、經濟還有其他的這個\n157987\t159449\t所以現在你講很多可是那個部分也不是我們能夠掌握的\n175069\t194228\t現在我們掌握的狀態,我就直接講一下,旅遊業到我們辦公室來陳情了,他們就講說如果說陸委會這邊還是卡著,交通部這邊還是卡著,不能讓出團去5月31號之後,6月1號之後沒有辦法繼續出團的時候,他們準備5月20號要上街頭啦\n195410\t197612\t臺灣的尊嚴很重要兩岸對等也很重要可是我要講一件事情我們看到\n212429\t220237\t大陸來台的人數統計跟台灣去大陸的人數統計高點大概都在417萬跟418萬左右差不多兩岸進去的高點大概都差不多可是時間點不太一樣大陸來台灣的高點大概是在2015年左右\n231528\t245783\t台灣去大陸的高點大概在2018年左右大概是這樣子我們看到統計數字類似這樣那我知道有不同的統計數字它有不同的狀態可是我要講的狀態是當417萬的大陸人到台灣來的時候對台灣具體產生了一些影響\n253611\t268565\t418萬台灣人到大陸去的時候對大陸產生的影響非常的小那我就這邊我就給另外再跟那個主委這邊再看一個數字就是我們直接來看一下就是飯店業者他們的一個數字出來\n272447\t293697\t我們看到的一個情況就是觀光旅館的租用率跟國際觀光旅館的租用率的狀態還有整個一般旅館的租用率我們這三個部分算起來我們就只看觀光旅館的租用率就是國際加一般平均起來的時候在103年的時候高點大概是71.8%啦大概有7成多的一個平均的一個住房率\n294837\t322543\t當我們在變得比較少的時候呢就大陸對台灣我們粗略來看的時候對整個住房率這個指標來看的時候大概影響10%大概影響10%的一個狀態那我這邊要講的一個情況就是為什麼旅遊業者他們很跳腳的原因就是這樣子就覺得說整個執政黨現在對於整個相關的政策感覺是兒戲去年8月的時候可以開放說要開放3月1號要開放就是赴大陸\n324143\t336368\t臺灣的遊客赴陸團組團去大陸旅遊然後選完了之後呢然後又改變了那現在只能開放到5月31號所以他們很跳腳所以他們準備要上街頭那我覺得以\n341223\t368980\t旅遊業者來講的時候他們如果會要上街頭肯定是他們生存受到影響了嘛那他們也直接在跟我講他們也在跟我講的時候講得更是義憤填膺啊就很多那個髒話都飆出來了髒話都飆出來那他們覺得說現在執行黨憑什麼東西能夠讓大家不能夠出團去大陸覺得交通部這樣子的一個依法在哪邊交通部今天我就重點不在因為我覺得我為什麼一開始講到\n370521\t371922\t其實交通部之前講到是對觀光條例的部分\n390375\t406726\t關於條例部分的時候,我們認為按照憲法第10條保障的人民有居住遷徙的自由當中,包括大法官釋字第443號、454號、558號當中,都很清楚提到了人民有任意移居或旅行各地的權利。\n408191\t424466\t如果要對人民的自由權利加以限制,必須要符合憲法第23條所定的必要程度,並且以法律定之,或者經立法機關明確授權,由行政機關以命令定之。\n425006\t441341\t所以對於這個部分來說的時候我們認為現在交通部這邊就直接下令禁止台灣人民組團到大陸去旅遊我們認為其實是違反了憲法對人民居住千里自由的保障\n442952\t461783\t我認為陸委會主委這個角色很重要就是我剛剛一開始提到說兩岸的一個關係要走向一個和平的一個面對還是可能會有意外發生我覺得陸委會也許都不是主要的\n462603\t483891\t第一線的一個單位像禮拜一主要大家都針對海洋委員會那今天可能大家都針對交通部或等等可是我覺得這跟兩岸有關的如果會絕對難持其責任就是你的責任的部分我覺得一定要擔起來所以今天我們講的某個部分還比較軟性一點\n484471\t487392\t8月份的新聞已經發佈了那前提就已經講了雙方應該要對等互惠吧\n512526\t527092\t所以我剛一開始就提到所謂的對等這概念來說的時候他們到現在為止禁止團客到我們這邊來啊理解可是我們現在等於是打我們自己的旅遊業者打我們自己的小孩給對方看我們綁架我們的旅遊業者對方就能夠妥協這個情況很奇怪這個情況很奇怪啊理解可是問題是在選後的時候又做了一個轉折啊\n538917\t539178\t主席主委\n","txt":"謝謝主席,我想請一下邱主委有請邱主委主委好首先要謝謝主席今天召開針對赴陸旅遊團停招這個事情我覺得連著禮拜一的時候跟驚嚇撞船事件當中的一個事情\n上禮拜 這個禮拜一的時候我發現大家都把焦點放在那個海洋委員會反而對陸委會這邊比較少關注到可是我覺得這兩個問題都跟陸委會有非常非常大的影響說實話而且有關聯性就是說陸委會其實能夠影響到這兩件事情我覺得非常的關鍵那我們先看一下整個\n人類歷史上面其實很多的戰爭很多的意外都是出現於意外並不是真的說我準備要打這場仗才去打這場仗所以我們其實對於整個驚嚇事件我們也擔心會危及到兩岸的一個關係的一個發展\n那麼今天針對旅遊團這個部分的時候那我首先先簡單講一下那之前那個邱主委曾經說過就是必須要對岸也開放來台那我們這邊才對等的方式去做這樣子的一個方式否則就按照國安的問題就先把它停下來我這樣理解有沒有錯後面的部分沒有8月宣布的時候就是依對等原則\n理解 理解 理解\n所以我覺得這邊這個邏輯因為我覺得我們能夠掌握就是掌握在我們手上的資源跟手上的球所以我在想說哇那如果說大陸方面如果說都沒有善意回應的時候我們是不是以後就永遠其實都不要有大陸團到大陸去你的邏輯就變成這樣子對不對\n委員可能沒有注意到我中間其實有在某次的受訪我有提到如果大陸不要的話我們對大陸的政策我們有自己的節奏跟我們的基層所以節奏的時候就有可能就是都不開放啦還是說什麼時候會開放如果大陸沒有開放你覺得什麼時候會開放因為今天我想委員都很清楚兩岸的情勢的變化不只是在政治、軍事、經濟還有其他的這個\n所以現在你講很多可是那個部分也不是我們能夠掌握的\n現在我們掌握的狀態,我就直接講一下,旅遊業到我們辦公室來陳情了,他們就講說如果說陸委會這邊還是卡著,交通部這邊還是卡著,不能讓出團去5月31號之後,6月1號之後沒有辦法繼續出團的時候,他們準備5月20號要上街頭啦\n臺灣的尊嚴很重要兩岸對等也很重要可是我要講一件事情我們看到\n大陸來台的人數統計跟台灣去大陸的人數統計高點大概都在417萬跟418萬左右差不多兩岸進去的高點大概都差不多可是時間點不太一樣大陸來台灣的高點大概是在2015年左右\n台灣去大陸的高點大概在2018年左右大概是這樣子我們看到統計數字類似這樣那我知道有不同的統計數字它有不同的狀態可是我要講的狀態是當417萬的大陸人到台灣來的時候對台灣具體產生了一些影響\n418萬台灣人到大陸去的時候對大陸產生的影響非常的小那我就這邊我就給另外再跟那個主委這邊再看一個數字就是我們直接來看一下就是飯店業者他們的一個數字出來\n我們看到的一個情況就是觀光旅館的租用率跟國際觀光旅館的租用率的狀態還有整個一般旅館的租用率我們這三個部分算起來我們就只看觀光旅館的租用率就是國際加一般平均起來的時候在103年的時候高點大概是71.8%啦大概有7成多的一個平均的一個住房率\n當我們在變得比較少的時候呢就大陸對台灣我們粗略來看的時候對整個住房率這個指標來看的時候大概影響10%大概影響10%的一個狀態那我這邊要講的一個情況就是為什麼旅遊業者他們很跳腳的原因就是這樣子就覺得說整個執政黨現在對於整個相關的政策感覺是兒戲去年8月的時候可以開放說要開放3月1號要開放就是赴大陸\n臺灣的遊客赴陸團組團去大陸旅遊然後選完了之後呢然後又改變了那現在只能開放到5月31號所以他們很跳腳所以他們準備要上街頭那我覺得以\n旅遊業者來講的時候他們如果會要上街頭肯定是他們生存受到影響了嘛那他們也直接在跟我講他們也在跟我講的時候講得更是義憤填膺啊就很多那個髒話都飆出來了髒話都飆出來那他們覺得說現在執行黨憑什麼東西能夠讓大家不能夠出團去大陸覺得交通部這樣子的一個依法在哪邊交通部今天我就重點不在因為我覺得我為什麼一開始講到\n其實交通部之前講到是對觀光條例的部分\n關於條例部分的時候,我們認為按照憲法第10條保障的人民有居住遷徙的自由當中,包括大法官釋字第443號、454號、558號當中,都很清楚提到了人民有任意移居或旅行各地的權利。\n如果要對人民的自由權利加以限制,必須要符合憲法第23條所定的必要程度,並且以法律定之,或者經立法機關明確授權,由行政機關以命令定之。\n所以對於這個部分來說的時候我們認為現在交通部這邊就直接下令禁止台灣人民組團到大陸去旅遊我們認為其實是違反了憲法對人民居住千里自由的保障\n我認為陸委會主委這個角色很重要就是我剛剛一開始提到說兩岸的一個關係要走向一個和平的一個面對還是可能會有意外發生我覺得陸委會也許都不是主要的\n第一線的一個單位像禮拜一主要大家都針對海洋委員會那今天可能大家都針對交通部或等等可是我覺得這跟兩岸有關的如果會絕對難持其責任就是你的責任的部分我覺得一定要擔起來所以今天我們講的某個部分還比較軟性一點\n8月份的新聞已經發佈了那前提就已經講了雙方應該要對等互惠吧\n所以我剛一開始就提到所謂的對等這概念來說的時候他們到現在為止禁止團客到我們這邊來啊理解可是我們現在等於是打我們自己的旅遊業者打我們自己的小孩給對方看我們綁架我們的旅遊業者對方就能夠妥協這個情況很奇怪這個情況很奇怪啊理解可是問題是在選後的時候又做了一個轉折啊\n主席主委\n","vtt":"WEBVTT\n\n00:01.220 --> 00:04.461\n謝謝主席,我想請一下邱主委有請邱主委主委好首先要謝謝主席今天召開針對赴陸旅遊團停招這個事情我覺得連著禮拜一的時候跟驚嚇撞船事件當中的一個事情\n\n00:26.467 --> 00:48.964\n上禮拜這個禮拜一的時候我發現大家都把焦點放在那個海洋委員會反而對陸委會這邊比較少關注到可是我覺得這兩個問題都跟陸委會有非常非常大的影響說實話而且有關聯性就是說陸委會其實能夠影響到這兩件事情我覺得非常的關鍵那我們先看一下整個\n\n00:50.865 --> 01:06.066\n人類歷史上面其實很多的戰爭很多的意外都是出現於意外並不是真的說我準備要打這場仗才去打這場仗所以我們其實對於整個驚嚇事件我們也擔心會危及到兩岸的一個關係的一個發展\n\n01:07.908 --> 01:31.841\n那麼今天針對旅遊團這個部分的時候那我首先先簡單講一下那之前那個邱主委曾經說過就是必須要對岸也開放來台那我們這邊才對等的方式去做這樣子的一個方式否則就按照國安的問題就先把它停下來我這樣理解有沒有錯後面的部分沒有8月宣布的時候就是依對等原則\n\n01:32.261 --> 01:32.781\n理解理解理解\n\n01:50.388 --> 02:08.088\n所以我覺得這邊這個邏輯因為我覺得我們能夠掌握就是掌握在我們手上的資源跟手上的球所以我在想說哇那如果說大陸方面如果說都沒有善意回應的時候我們是不是以後就永遠其實都不要有大陸團到大陸去你的邏輯就變成這樣子對不對\n\n02:09.629 --> 02:36.826\n委員可能沒有注意到我中間其實有在某次的受訪我有提到如果大陸不要的話我們對大陸的政策我們有自己的節奏跟我們的基層所以節奏的時候就有可能就是都不開放啦還是說什麼時候會開放如果大陸沒有開放你覺得什麼時候會開放因為今天我想委員都很清楚兩岸的情勢的變化不只是在政治、軍事、經濟還有其他的這個\n\n02:37.987 --> 02:39.449\n所以現在你講很多可是那個部分也不是我們能夠掌握的\n\n02:55.069 --> 03:14.228\n現在我們掌握的狀態,我就直接講一下,旅遊業到我們辦公室來陳情了,他們就講說如果說陸委會這邊還是卡著,交通部這邊還是卡著,不能讓出團去5月31號之後,6月1號之後沒有辦法繼續出團的時候,他們準備5月20號要上街頭啦\n\n03:15.410 --> 03:17.612\n臺灣的尊嚴很重要兩岸對等也很重要可是我要講一件事情我們看到\n\n03:32.429 --> 03:40.237\n大陸來台的人數統計跟台灣去大陸的人數統計高點大概都在417萬跟418萬左右差不多兩岸進去的高點大概都差不多可是時間點不太一樣大陸來台灣的高點大概是在2015年左右\n\n03:51.528 --> 04:05.783\n台灣去大陸的高點大概在2018年左右大概是這樣子我們看到統計數字類似這樣那我知道有不同的統計數字它有不同的狀態可是我要講的狀態是當417萬的大陸人到台灣來的時候對台灣具體產生了一些影響\n\n04:13.611 --> 04:28.565\n418萬台灣人到大陸去的時候對大陸產生的影響非常的小那我就這邊我就給另外再跟那個主委這邊再看一個數字就是我們直接來看一下就是飯店業者他們的一個數字出來\n\n04:32.447 --> 04:53.697\n我們看到的一個情況就是觀光旅館的租用率跟國際觀光旅館的租用率的狀態還有整個一般旅館的租用率我們這三個部分算起來我們就只看觀光旅館的租用率就是國際加一般平均起來的時候在103年的時候高點大概是71.8%啦大概有7成多的一個平均的一個住房率\n\n04:54.837 --> 05:22.543\n當我們在變得比較少的時候呢就大陸對台灣我們粗略來看的時候對整個住房率這個指標來看的時候大概影響10%大概影響10%的一個狀態那我這邊要講的一個情況就是為什麼旅遊業者他們很跳腳的原因就是這樣子就覺得說整個執政黨現在對於整個相關的政策感覺是兒戲去年8月的時候可以開放說要開放3月1號要開放就是赴大陸\n\n05:24.143 --> 05:36.368\n臺灣的遊客赴陸團組團去大陸旅遊然後選完了之後呢然後又改變了那現在只能開放到5月31號所以他們很跳腳所以他們準備要上街頭那我覺得以\n\n05:41.223 --> 06:08.980\n旅遊業者來講的時候他們如果會要上街頭肯定是他們生存受到影響了嘛那他們也直接在跟我講他們也在跟我講的時候講得更是義憤填膺啊就很多那個髒話都飆出來了髒話都飆出來那他們覺得說現在執行黨憑什麼東西能夠讓大家不能夠出團去大陸覺得交通部這樣子的一個依法在哪邊交通部今天我就重點不在因為我覺得我為什麼一開始講到\n\n06:10.521 --> 06:11.922\n其實交通部之前講到是對觀光條例的部分\n\n06:30.375 --> 06:46.726\n關於條例部分的時候,我們認為按照憲法第10條保障的人民有居住遷徙的自由當中,包括大法官釋字第443號、454號、558號當中,都很清楚提到了人民有任意移居或旅行各地的權利。\n\n06:48.191 --> 07:04.466\n如果要對人民的自由權利加以限制,必須要符合憲法第23條所定的必要程度,並且以法律定之,或者經立法機關明確授權,由行政機關以命令定之。\n\n07:05.006 --> 07:21.341\n所以對於這個部分來說的時候我們認為現在交通部這邊就直接下令禁止台灣人民組團到大陸去旅遊我們認為其實是違反了憲法對人民居住千里自由的保障\n\n07:22.952 --> 07:41.783\n我認為陸委會主委這個角色很重要就是我剛剛一開始提到說兩岸的一個關係要走向一個和平的一個面對還是可能會有意外發生我覺得陸委會也許都不是主要的\n\n07:42.603 --> 08:03.891\n第一線的一個單位像禮拜一主要大家都針對海洋委員會那今天可能大家都針對交通部或等等可是我覺得這跟兩岸有關的如果會絕對難持其責任就是你的責任的部分我覺得一定要擔起來所以今天我們講的某個部分還比較軟性一點\n\n08:04.471 --> 08:07.392\n8月份的新聞已經發佈了那前提就已經講了雙方應該要對等互惠吧\n\n08:32.526 --> 08:47.092\n所以我剛一開始就提到所謂的對等這概念來說的時候他們到現在為止禁止團客到我們這邊來啊理解可是我們現在等於是打我們自己的旅遊業者打我們自己的小孩給對方看我們綁架我們的旅遊業者對方就能夠妥協這個情況很奇怪這個情況很奇怪啊理解可是問題是在選後的時候又做了一個轉折啊\n\n08:58.917 --> 08:59.178\n主席主委\n\n","segments":[{"start":1.22,"end":4.461,"text":"謝謝主席,我想請一下邱主委有請邱主委主委好首先要謝謝主席今天召開針對赴陸旅遊團停招這個事情我覺得連著禮拜一的時候跟驚嚇撞船事件當中的一個事情"},{"start":26.467,"end":48.964,"text":"上禮拜 這個禮拜一的時候我發現大家都把焦點放在那個海洋委員會反而對陸委會這邊比較少關注到可是我覺得這兩個問題都跟陸委會有非常非常大的影響說實話而且有關聯性就是說陸委會其實能夠影響到這兩件事情我覺得非常的關鍵那我們先看一下整個"},{"start":50.865,"end":66.066,"text":"人類歷史上面其實很多的戰爭很多的意外都是出現於意外並不是真的說我準備要打這場仗才去打這場仗所以我們其實對於整個驚嚇事件我們也擔心會危及到兩岸的一個關係的一個發展"},{"start":67.908,"end":91.841,"text":"那麼今天針對旅遊團這個部分的時候那我首先先簡單講一下那之前那個邱主委曾經說過就是必須要對岸也開放來台那我們這邊才對等的方式去做這樣子的一個方式否則就按照國安的問題就先把它停下來我這樣理解有沒有錯後面的部分沒有8月宣布的時候就是依對等原則"},{"start":92.261,"end":92.781,"text":"理解 理解 理解"},{"start":110.388,"end":128.088,"text":"所以我覺得這邊這個邏輯因為我覺得我們能夠掌握就是掌握在我們手上的資源跟手上的球所以我在想說哇那如果說大陸方面如果說都沒有善意回應的時候我們是不是以後就永遠其實都不要有大陸團到大陸去你的邏輯就變成這樣子對不對"},{"start":129.629,"end":156.826,"text":"委員可能沒有注意到我中間其實有在某次的受訪我有提到如果大陸不要的話我們對大陸的政策我們有自己的節奏跟我們的基層所以節奏的時候就有可能就是都不開放啦還是說什麼時候會開放如果大陸沒有開放你覺得什麼時候會開放因為今天我想委員都很清楚兩岸的情勢的變化不只是在政治、軍事、經濟還有其他的這個"},{"start":157.987,"end":159.449,"text":"所以現在你講很多可是那個部分也不是我們能夠掌握的"},{"start":175.069,"end":194.228,"text":"現在我們掌握的狀態,我就直接講一下,旅遊業到我們辦公室來陳情了,他們就講說如果說陸委會這邊還是卡著,交通部這邊還是卡著,不能讓出團去5月31號之後,6月1號之後沒有辦法繼續出團的時候,他們準備5月20號要上街頭啦"},{"start":195.41,"end":197.612,"text":"臺灣的尊嚴很重要兩岸對等也很重要可是我要講一件事情我們看到"},{"start":212.429,"end":220.237,"text":"大陸來台的人數統計跟台灣去大陸的人數統計高點大概都在417萬跟418萬左右差不多兩岸進去的高點大概都差不多可是時間點不太一樣大陸來台灣的高點大概是在2015年左右"},{"start":231.528,"end":245.783,"text":"台灣去大陸的高點大概在2018年左右大概是這樣子我們看到統計數字類似這樣那我知道有不同的統計數字它有不同的狀態可是我要講的狀態是當417萬的大陸人到台灣來的時候對台灣具體產生了一些影響"},{"start":253.611,"end":268.565,"text":"418萬台灣人到大陸去的時候對大陸產生的影響非常的小那我就這邊我就給另外再跟那個主委這邊再看一個數字就是我們直接來看一下就是飯店業者他們的一個數字出來"},{"start":272.447,"end":293.697,"text":"我們看到的一個情況就是觀光旅館的租用率跟國際觀光旅館的租用率的狀態還有整個一般旅館的租用率我們這三個部分算起來我們就只看觀光旅館的租用率就是國際加一般平均起來的時候在103年的時候高點大概是71.8%啦大概有7成多的一個平均的一個住房率"},{"start":294.837,"end":322.543,"text":"當我們在變得比較少的時候呢就大陸對台灣我們粗略來看的時候對整個住房率這個指標來看的時候大概影響10%大概影響10%的一個狀態那我這邊要講的一個情況就是為什麼旅遊業者他們很跳腳的原因就是這樣子就覺得說整個執政黨現在對於整個相關的政策感覺是兒戲去年8月的時候可以開放說要開放3月1號要開放就是赴大陸"},{"start":324.143,"end":336.368,"text":"臺灣的遊客赴陸團組團去大陸旅遊然後選完了之後呢然後又改變了那現在只能開放到5月31號所以他們很跳腳所以他們準備要上街頭那我覺得以"},{"start":341.223,"end":368.98,"text":"旅遊業者來講的時候他們如果會要上街頭肯定是他們生存受到影響了嘛那他們也直接在跟我講他們也在跟我講的時候講得更是義憤填膺啊就很多那個髒話都飆出來了髒話都飆出來那他們覺得說現在執行黨憑什麼東西能夠讓大家不能夠出團去大陸覺得交通部這樣子的一個依法在哪邊交通部今天我就重點不在因為我覺得我為什麼一開始講到"},{"start":370.521,"end":371.922,"text":"其實交通部之前講到是對觀光條例的部分"},{"start":390.375,"end":406.726,"text":"關於條例部分的時候,我們認為按照憲法第10條保障的人民有居住遷徙的自由當中,包括大法官釋字第443號、454號、558號當中,都很清楚提到了人民有任意移居或旅行各地的權利。"},{"start":408.191,"end":424.466,"text":"如果要對人民的自由權利加以限制,必須要符合憲法第23條所定的必要程度,並且以法律定之,或者經立法機關明確授權,由行政機關以命令定之。"},{"start":425.006,"end":441.341,"text":"所以對於這個部分來說的時候我們認為現在交通部這邊就直接下令禁止台灣人民組團到大陸去旅遊我們認為其實是違反了憲法對人民居住千里自由的保障"},{"start":442.952,"end":461.783,"text":"我認為陸委會主委這個角色很重要就是我剛剛一開始提到說兩岸的一個關係要走向一個和平的一個面對還是可能會有意外發生我覺得陸委會也許都不是主要的"},{"start":462.603,"end":483.891,"text":"第一線的一個單位像禮拜一主要大家都針對海洋委員會那今天可能大家都針對交通部或等等可是我覺得這跟兩岸有關的如果會絕對難持其責任就是你的責任的部分我覺得一定要擔起來所以今天我們講的某個部分還比較軟性一點"},{"start":484.471,"end":487.392,"text":"8月份的新聞已經發佈了那前提就已經講了雙方應該要對等互惠吧"},{"start":512.526,"end":527.092,"text":"所以我剛一開始就提到所謂的對等這概念來說的時候他們到現在為止禁止團客到我們這邊來啊理解可是我們現在等於是打我們自己的旅遊業者打我們自己的小孩給對方看我們綁架我們的旅遊業者對方就能夠妥協這個情況很奇怪這個情況很奇怪啊理解可是問題是在選後的時候又做了一個轉折啊"},{"start":538.917,"end":539.178,"text":"主席主委"}]}}}}